PDA

View Full Version : KOToys- FORT,BRAVE,GRAND Max KOS



gdmetro
9th February 2011, 07:58 PM
This turned out to be false information from the KOers so the figs will not be Koed at this time

http://www.kotoys.com/forum/index.php/topic,1646.0.html

__________________________________________________ ________

http://www.kotoys.com/forum/index.php/topic,1617.0.html

OMG....


BOMBSHELL :eek:- and apparently at $300.

"An update regarding G1 KO REissues

Since everyone here asked for FORT MAX, we inquired and told them that people are really begging for FORT MAX.

Well u ask, you shall receive.

FORT MAX HAS BEEN MOVED AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. He will be made FIRST Ahead of both ABOMINUS and COMPUTRON (actually i think both abominus and max were in the first stages)

So, there will be all 3 versions of FORT MAX, the retail price will be around 300$ US.

Both Abominus and Computron will now be delayed until AFTER FORT MAX.

Stickers for all 3 have already been made.

FORT MAX ETA - 6 months from Today - August, or before August."


Dunno where to frantically get one or just cry because... how will this drop the price of g1s...

fatbot
9th February 2011, 08:28 PM
very interesting, I may have to overcome my hatred of KO's when these come out.

Quickstrike
9th February 2011, 08:28 PM
The thought of paying $300 for a Knock-off toy hurts my brain. Even if it's a really big toy.

gdmetro
9th February 2011, 08:34 PM
No offense to current g1 fort max owners.. but I'm hoping there is an inevitable slash in the current price of authentic g1 fort maxes so I can snag one for a substantially cheaper price than current market rated ones. The only problem is when does the drop- if at all and how much, occur... since if it happens after the KO is out... and lets say the KO is hard to distinguish then it will be too hard.

I'm also skeptical of the quality of the potential kos anyway... with such a large toy the stress tolerances on the plastic and weight.. would be problematic.

Skullcruncher
9th February 2011, 08:52 PM
Wow all 3 versions... thats nuts...and bad news for everyone who wants to buy a g1 original (and the others) and all current owners too!

Personally I hope the quality is poor with obvious signs that they are KO's.

UltraMagnus
9th February 2011, 09:03 PM
a few months back I saw a japanese Fort max for $12k HKD ($1500 HKD)

Seeing this makes my heart fly with happiness. I knew it was coming thanks to the guys in HK but never this soon.
THis will sell so well.

Count me in on 1 Fort max -tempted for brave max as well!

swoop
9th February 2011, 09:23 PM
very interesting, I may have to overcome my hatred of KO's when these come out.

I can't overcome my hatred even for a cheap fort max.

But I do hope it brings the originals price down.

5FDP
9th February 2011, 09:29 PM
Well, we all knew this was going to happen as it's been talked about for years. Still won't stop people from complaining.

$300 is actually quite reasonable for a toy of this size. If Hasbro was ever to reissue it (which they won't because it would fail drop-testing), you could expect the price to be a lot higher (which is another reason why they wouldn't).

If this is anything like the recent KO releases, the quality should be just fine.

Disclaimer - the above are my views and opinions only and are not intended to incite fan rage over KO production nor spark-up the age old debate about the legalities of such perceived evils of man. Refer to 90% of the TFW forum if you wish to join that debate :p

loophole
9th February 2011, 09:33 PM
this is why i bought my fort max months ago i dont care if prices on original stuff comes down because i know ive the real deal

VERT
9th February 2011, 10:39 PM
Well looks like my Fort and Brave Max will have a Grand new friend without costing me a grand....or more :D

canofwhoopass_87
10th February 2011, 09:23 AM
this is why i bought my fort max months ago i dont care if prices on original stuff comes down because i know ive the real deal

Amen to that loopy.

Hursticon
10th February 2011, 09:29 AM
Whilst I can completely understand the reasoning for these KO's and why they're an incredibly tempting option, I myself wont be biting on this hook. :o
I'm sure I would find vastly greater pleasure in acquiring an Original as opposed to settling with a KO but that is Purely My Opinion and I hold nothing against those who wish to pick 1, 2 or 3 of these KOs up. :)
(On a purely financial argument, a KO would be a sound choice I guess)

optimus1
10th February 2011, 09:38 AM
Mixed news to everyone it seems.

I would really want to have a G1 Fort Max, although Im glad to have my own Brave Max.

With these KO's coming out, hopefully the genuine ones do come down in price, even if they are in 'pre-loved' condition - they will be 100% authentic :)

Vector Prime
10th February 2011, 09:49 AM
Well I have no interest in Fort Max, so I'm indifferent either way.

As for a KO being worth $300? Well, it all depends on how much you want a Fort Max I suppose.

On a side note, seeing as it's a KO and not an official reissue, does anyone else (besides me) think that this will drive the pricing of the genuine G1 article up even more (as opposed to bringing it down)?

I foresee this happening, at least for the short term as there may be a mad rush by collectors to grab a hold of a genuine item before the market gets proliferated with KO's.

Deonasis
10th February 2011, 10:18 AM
:( I would rather an original. Despite some ko's being acurately advertised it will become a fact that if you have just started a obtaining G1 (no KO), despite great efforts to avoid them you will have ko parts in you collection and you would have been duped and paid big money for fake.

5FDP
10th February 2011, 10:54 AM
Just so people are aware, even though we now have confirmation of a KO Fort Max, KO parts for Fort Max have been in circulation on the secondhand market for quite some time now.

The reason why I am mentioning this is in case people rush out to complete their Fort Max with the parts they are missing in an attempt to have a genuine toy before the KO is released. Just be careful.


On a side note, seeing as it's a KO and not an official reissue, does anyone else (besides me) think that this will drive the pricing of the genuine G1 article up even more (as opposed to bringing it down)?

KO's usually bring the price down for toys that have not been reissued e.g. Wheeljack, Sunstreaker, Mirage, Shockwave etc, as it seems that when a KO is announced a lot of fans are inclined to wait for something they consider to be a 'mint' version of the same toy.

In the case of Wheeljack, it wasn't unheard of about 5 years ago to be paying between US$180-$200 for a mint / complete toy. You should be able to pick one up now for approx. US$80.

bruticus
10th February 2011, 11:23 AM
In the case of Wheeljack, it wasn't unheard of about 5 years ago to be paying between US$180-$200 for a mint / complete toy. You should be able to pick one up now for approx. US$80.
I agree with your overall message that KO's can bring price of originals down in some cases, however, im quite surprised that wheeljack would be affected.

KO wheejack is a POS IMHO and easy to spot.
it shouldnt have been any threat to the genuine wheeljack (i have both versions atm).

5FDP
10th February 2011, 11:46 AM
I agree with your overall message that KO's can bring price of originals down in some cases, however, im quite surprised that wheeljack would be affected.

KO wheejack is a POS IMHO and easy to spot.
it shouldnt have been any threat to the genuine wheeljack (i have both versions atm).

KO Wheeljack was garbage but there are fans that are satisfied using the KO as a substitute :confused:

Another factor that I forgot to mention is that prices usually go down due to fear of purchasing a KO unintentionally. This is more evident in the high-end and more expensive toys. This basically reduces the demand and in turn, the price.

Put another way, would you care if you bought a KO when the genuine toy was easily obtainable and cheap compared to a rare G1 item that was considered expensive due to its rarity?

GoktimusPrime
10th February 2011, 12:04 PM
$300 is actually quite reasonable for a toy of this size. If Hasbro was ever to reissue it (which they won't because it would fail drop-testing), you could expect the price to be a lot higher (which is another reason why they wouldn't).
Brave Maximus retailed for about $300 (I paid $400 for mine cos I paid $100 for insured shipping). So considering that, I think $300 is outrageous for a fake.

5FDP
10th February 2011, 12:30 PM
Brave Maximus retailed for about $300 (I paid $400 for mine cos I paid $100 for insured shipping). So considering that, I think $300 is outrageous for a fake.

I know you like living in the past Goki, but you need to keep in mind that Brave Maximus was released over 10 years ago. You'd be hard-pressed to pick up one (MISB) for that price now.

How good would it have been to purchased all of the commemorative series at the original '84 - '85 prices instead of the $60 - $70 TRU forced us to pay :p

Skullcruncher
10th February 2011, 12:38 PM
I know you like living in the past Goki, but you need to keep in mind that Brave Maximus was released over 10 years ago. You'd be hard-pressed to pick up one (MISB) for that price now.

How good would it have been to purchased all of the commemorative series at the original '84 - '85 prices instead of the $60 - $70 TRU forced us to pay :p

:D Yeah I think alot of people are going to snap it up at $300... darn it - I just want a stryo insert :cool:

rampagesss
10th February 2011, 02:07 PM
Yea im just glad i bought a real Fort Max over a year ago :D But wouldn't mind a KO Grand Max to go with my custom Black Zarak but would wait and see how the quality is like as my KO wheeljack is crap!

Oilspill
10th February 2011, 07:28 PM
I've been wanting a Fort Max for ages, and had him in my saved searches for a long time now, and never seen one that I can even come close to affording.

$300 I can just manage, so I'm super thrilled for this, just hope it will be high quality and I hope there's a good way to distinguish from the originals. Hopefully postage doesn't add another $100 too!

I don't think $300 is outrageous (provided the materials used for the KO are decent) seeing as Predaking was just reissued and costs almost $200.

UltraMagnus
10th February 2011, 07:55 PM
im seeing a trend here... the guys who own Fort Max are upset, the ones who dont are happy.
I'm from the "i dont own him and wish I had him" group so I am excited.

It will never replace the real thing, but it will happily display in my cabinent.

I just need a scorponok now :) (and the rest of the headmasters!)

The_Damned
10th February 2011, 08:39 PM
i have and i am happy to se him come out so everyone has a chance to share in the joy :)

bruticus
10th February 2011, 09:49 PM
hmm..on the topic of postage, are there any size restrictions with HK post or other asian posts to Australia?
hopefully there isnt one imposed yet.

cos apparently you can no longer get a 'boxed' fort max shipped from US due to exceeding maximum size limits.

blackie
10th February 2011, 09:51 PM
youll be able to get a fort max shipped from HK
i just had about 19 kilos of gundams and clothes shipped from HK, and it cost me around 150aud to post it all.....

reillyd
10th February 2011, 10:12 PM
hmm..on the topic of postage, are there any size restrictions with HK post or other asian posts to Australia?
hopefully there isnt one imposed yet.

cos apparently you can no longer get a 'boxed' fort max shipped from US due to exceeding maximum size limits.

Shipping TO the US, or even within Australia, seems to be difficult for large parcels. I've had large toys shipped from Asia that I can't reship within Australia.

VERT
10th February 2011, 10:28 PM
im seeing a trend here... the guys who own Fort Max are upset, the ones who dont are happy.


I have a real Fort Max and Brave Max. I never thought I could get a Grand. So yeah im happy :D

GoktimusPrime
10th February 2011, 10:48 PM
:D Yeah I think alot of people are going to snap it up at $300... darn it - I just want a stryo insert :cool:
Make your own (or have one made for you). I'm sure it would cost less than $300 and it would be no more authentic than getting a KO styro insert. ;)


im seeing a trend here... the guys who own Fort Max are upset, the ones who dont are happy.
I'm just upset cos I hate seeing fakes. I'm not upset about this KO 'devaluing' my Fort Max. I collect TF toys because I enjoy them and not as a financial investment.


I'm from the "i dont own him and wish I had him" group so I am excited.

It will never replace the real thing, but it will happily display in my cabinent.

I just need a scorponok now :) (and the rest of the headmasters!)
If I didn't have Fort Max I would be excited at the prospect of seeing the price of a real Fort Max go down and thus become more affordable to me, but I still would refuse to get the counterfeit. Perhaps wait and see how much the aftermarket price for real Fort Maxes depreciate by?

Skullcruncher
11th February 2011, 08:11 AM
Make your own (or have one made for you). I'm sure it would cost less than $300 and it would be no more authentic than getting a KO styro insert. ;)


Ah no. Ever heard the saying time is money. I would buy it and do a comparision for the parts with my fort max. Keep the styro and put a self made box with a window on it.

I hope it does bring the price down for parts of fort maxes but for a MIB original one the price will still be up there.

STL
11th February 2011, 01:44 PM
Yay!

I'm pretty happy about this for everyone who doesn't have one. I have one and tbh I don't think it matters if mine is real or not. I want a representation of that character and that figure and I think this makes it more accessible to everyone else.

It's an old product and it was never likely to get re-issued and so few ever had access to it.

Skullcruncher
12th February 2011, 07:58 AM
Heres a reasonably HQ cog

http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-G1-Fortress-Maximus-Cog-/190501037783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5abf26d7

You can see the circles on the chest dont seem as deep as the original or the groove between the 'legs' :rolleyes: hope that comes across in the right way :o

Tallestblue
12th February 2011, 12:30 PM
Oh, I'm so conflicted. These are the guys who make the high-quality KO's right?

Like these are the ones that are nearly indistinguishable from Hasbro/Takara reissues?

liegeprime
12th February 2011, 01:19 PM
wait til the Scalpers get their mitts on these KOs or not I dont think the price will stay at 300 for long.... from the way these things are in demand even before they ever get produced this will more likely fetch more than $300 in the aftermarket evilbay price. Id like to get one for meself .... oh it's so nice living in the basement :D:D

gdmetro
12th February 2011, 01:23 PM
wait til the Scalpers get their mitts on these KOs or not I dont think the price will stay at 300 for long.... from the way these things are in demand even before they ever get produced this will more likely fetch more than $300 in the aftermarket evilbay price. Id like to get one for meself .... oh it's so nice living in the basement :D:D

Hmm..

How can KOs be scalped? won't they just make more? I'm sure the KOers will want to sell as much as possible.

liegeprime
12th February 2011, 03:55 PM
Hmm..

How can KOs be scalped? won't they just make more? I'm sure the KOers will want to sell as much as possible.

Who knows what scalpers will latch onto but as an example, well remember what happened to those CJ upgrade kit that FP first produced? sold for $20+ those came out, lookit them now on evilbay and weep;)
Okay so mebbe those weren't scalped or are sold by scalpers per se but opportunistic bastards who want to get so rich with little measly pieces of plastic not worth the money they charge it for.....

Another example are those fake Headmaster sets - originally the maker wanted it sold for just oh around $80 for the whole set. Then some bastards got a whole lot of em and sells em now separately for as much price as the original, at times even more.

Same principle, scalpers know this will sell, so they'd jump on it then there's going to be a bit of a shortage ... then they make their move. Even with the original manufacturers making a second or third run, I doubt they be able to make a lot since I suspect the molds they use for making the KOs aren't as sturdy as what HasTakTom uses and would degenerate quicker thereby only a short run. With the production of all 3 versions that'll make its usage of the molds even more..... let's hope though that this situation Ive thought of never comes to pass twood be a shame to deny legitimate firsthand buyers to own the mod... even if it is unofficial....

Verno
12th February 2011, 04:14 PM
Personally I don't think these KO Toys people should be encouraged.

If you want a G1 Fort Max, Grand Max or Brave Max, then save up and buy a real one. If you can't justify paying that much, then move on.

1orion2many
12th February 2011, 05:43 PM
I'll save up for the 2 originals I'm missing my only gripe is not getting ripped with a KO. I really hope they are easily distinguishable from the originals:confused:

griffin
13th February 2011, 01:14 AM
Not to mention how some sellers will 'complete' a legit figure with parts from a $300 KO and then demand $2000+ that the real ones sell for... and the buyer wouldn't know until they get the toy or scrutinise the parts.

Seeing the recent KO Shockwave reaching a couple hundred dollars in early bidding shows what I was saying years ago - that the KOs might be easy to spot by current collectors when they are released, but after a few years in circulation, sellers will claim they are legit and newer collectors who are unaware of the KOs will pay heaps for them.

As for the KO headmasters, it seems that most of these KOs only have a limited production - they probably use cheaper toolings than Hasbro, so don't last as long. As such, certain items can end up not meeting demand, and fetching prices that rivals the real thing. The only good thing I can see from these KOs, if they are distinguishable from the real thing, is that they will make it cheaper for those of us wanting to buy the real thing (as mentioned above by 5FDP). We just have to be very careful to be sure we don't end up with a KO though.

reillyd
13th February 2011, 12:36 PM
This one really has me conflicted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first G1 knockoff of a mold that TakaraTomy actually still HAS, and used recently for the Japanese RID Fortress Maximus, and is likely to use again?

Its one thing to buy a toy that is likely NEVER to be reissued, its another to buy one that might cost TT legitimate sales

Hursticon
13th February 2011, 12:54 PM
This one really has me conflicted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first G1 knockoff of a mold that TakaraTomy actually still HAS, and used recently for the Japanese RID Fortress Maximus, and is likely to use again?

Its one thing to buy a toy that is likely NEVER to be reissued, its another to buy one that might cost TT legitimate sales

A good and fair point Reillyd, hopefully it might give TakTom some incentive to dilute the KO Market with Genuine Reissues! :D
(We can dream at least :o)

GoktimusPrime
14th February 2011, 02:02 PM
Personally I don't think these KO Toys people should be encouraged.

If you want a G1 Fort Max, Grand Max or Brave Max, then save up and buy a real one. If you can't justify paying that much, then move on.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s21/buriedah_daniel/Emoticons/applause-003.gif +1000 http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s21/buriedah_daniel/Emoticons/applause-003.gif

"Rather fall with honour than succeed by fraud." - Sophocles.

fatbot
14th February 2011, 03:35 PM
This one really has me conflicted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first G1 knockoff of a mold that TakaraTomy actually still HAS, and used recently for the Japanese RID Fortress Maximus, and is likely to use again?

Its one thing to buy a toy that is likely NEVER to be reissued, its another to buy one that might cost TT legitimate sales

It's highly unlikely that TT will ever re issue him, due to the fact that the larger transformers are shelf warmers, imagine a toy the size of Fort Max.

What I really love about this though, is the people who already have a Fort Max are vehemently against this K/O, where as the people who don't have it are welcoming of the news, elitism anyone?

Verno
14th February 2011, 04:30 PM
I'm all for elitism and I don't own one. I'd be the same if someone came out with a KO X-9 Ravage, I'd be against it.

And something tells me a TT Reissue of Fort, Brave or Grand would be far from shelfwarmers, you'd have a global market begging to get their hands on them, clearly shown by this discussion.

The_Damned
14th February 2011, 06:35 PM
It's highly unlikely that TT will ever re issue him, due to the fact that the larger transformers are shelf warmers, imagine a toy the size of Fort Max.

What I really love about this though, is the people who already have a Fort Max are vehemently against this K/O, where as the people who don't have it are welcoming of the news, elitism anyone?

um didnt you see my post? so before you go spouting off check your facts:mad:

Sky Shadow
14th February 2011, 07:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first G1 knockoff of a mold that TakaraTomy actually still HAS

To name but a few, Metroplex, Prowl, Red Alert, Sideswipe, Frenzy, Rumble, Laserbeak, Ratbat, Buzzsaw, Ravage, Bombshell, Kickback, Shrapnel, Cosmos, Hubcap, Outback, Powerglide, Warpath, Brawn, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper are all existing TakaraTomy G1 moulds that have been 'accurately' knocked off. (Not to mention Optimus Prime.) And we don't know how many more G1 toys would have been reissued if their respective knockoffs weren't saturating the market.

I think it's insane if people are willing to pay $300 plus postage for a knockoff. That's more money than 99% of fans have ever paid for a real Transformer.

fatbot
14th February 2011, 07:34 PM
um didnt you see my post? so before you go spouting off check your facts:mad:

calm down champ, I wasn't talking about you.

The_Damned
14th February 2011, 08:44 PM
all good buddy;)

Verno
14th February 2011, 09:22 PM
At the end of the day, what these people are doing is stealing. They are taking the property of others, producing a poorer quality version and marketing it.

If you want a Fort Max, utilise the strong desire for one in getting a global petition going imploring Takara to release one. Do it smartly, show projected sales figures from gauging members not only on this board but ones overseas. Show that it is profitable for them to pursue this idea.

Thats what I think anyway.

5FDP
14th February 2011, 09:56 PM
I was wondering how long it would take before this thread turned into your normal 'KO makers are evil' discussion :rolleyes:

Zhong Jin and Kidi Toys have been making them for so long now and Hasbro / TakTom know where their factories are. If they cared, they would've shut them down by now. The truth is, they don't and they won't.

I'm yet to hear of anyone being hauled off to jail for purchasing KO Transformers as well.

Burn
14th February 2011, 10:09 PM
I don't own Fortress Maximus, I do however own a Brave Maximus.

I would like to own Fortress Maximus however, but I will not pay ANY amount of money for a KO.

Sorry, but it's just my personal opinion, but I want the real deals in my collection, and i'm happy to bide my time, save up, and find the genuine article.

GoktimusPrime
14th February 2011, 11:03 PM
It's highly unlikely that TT will ever re issue him, due to the fact that the larger transformers are shelf warmers, imagine a toy the size of Fort Max.
Yeah... apparently toys like reissue Omega Supreme and Metroplex shelf-warmed... and Fortress Maximus DWARFS those toys, so I don't blame TOMY for not wanting to reissue Fort Max.


What I really love about this though, is the people who already have a Fort Max are vehemently against this K/O, where as the people who don't have it are welcoming of the news, elitism anyone?
I'm against unlicensed toys period - doesn't matter if I own it or not. I don't have Dreadwind. I've seen KO Dreadwinds on sale in Asian stores before, which I just passed on since I knew they were fakes. I still don't have a G1 Dreadwind (yet). When I do get one, I want it to be real.


I was wondering how long it would take before this thread turned into your normal 'KO makers are evil' discussion :rolleyes:

Zhong Jin and Kidi Toys have been making them for so long now and Hasbro / TakTom know where their factories are. If they cared, they would've shut them down by now. The truth is, they don't and they won't.

I'm yet to hear of anyone being hauled off to jail for purchasing KO Transformers as well.
Just because nobody's doing anything about it doesn't necessarily make it right. That's kinda like saying if I steal something but the storekeeper can't be bothered to stop me, then it's okay.

Anyway, "good" and "evil" are matters of perspective. I never said that what they were doing was good or bad, just not something I would personally subscribe to or support. But that's just me... if other people wanna go buy KOs then that's their prerogative.

I think the most important thing is that people are AWARE of which toys have been counterfeited and sellers should be up front and honest if the toy they're selling is fake, thus allowing consumers to make an informed choice. If you know a toy is fake but you still want to buy it because you believe it's cheaper and more convenient than buying an original - okay, that's your call. What annoys me more is when collectors are deceived into thinking a counterfeit is real... they think it's legit, pay for it, only later to find out it's fake.

bruticus
15th February 2011, 01:50 AM
Zhong Jin and Kidi Toys have been making them for so long now and Hasbro / TakTom know where their factories are. If they cared, they would've shut them down by now. The truth is, they don't and they won't.


hmm...i was just imagining how it would be really funny(?) if hastaktom were the ones who actually supplied the old/used moulds and QC/QA rejects to KO makers or even own the KO factories themselves! lol.
that way, they would then have their grubby fingers dipped in the pockets of both the legit and the non legit TF buyers...;)
ka-ching!!! full market domination!

i currently own the legit versions, but im still glad that an affordable version will be available for everyone else.
its an awesome figure and i reckon every G1 fan should own him (KO or not)!

I'm also looking forward to the upcoming custom projects that will be built using these KO's :D. im sure F_R and his buddies will have a good crack at it now thats its affordable.

Verno
15th February 2011, 05:08 PM
Yeah... apparently toys like reissue Omega Supreme and Metroplex shelf-warmed... and Fortress Maximus DWARFS those toys, so I don't blame TOMY for not wanting to reissue Fort Max.

When did those re-issues come out? Because the Transformers landscape as changed dramatically in the past 4 years.

Plus every man and his dog has got an Omega Supreme and Metroplex, so why would they buy a reissue on mass? Fort Max is a completely different kettle of fish and in a completely different time in Transformers history.

GoktimusPrime
15th February 2011, 05:27 PM
They came out in mid to late 2008.

reillyd
15th February 2011, 06:05 PM
To name but a few, Metroplex, Prowl, Red Alert, Sideswipe, Frenzy, Rumble, Laserbeak, Ratbat, Buzzsaw, Ravage, Bombshell, Kickback, Shrapnel, Cosmos, Hubcap, Outback, Powerglide, Warpath, Brawn, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper are all existing TakaraTomy G1 moulds that have been 'accurately' knocked off. (Not to mention Optimus Prime.)

Yes but those, all of those, were KO -after- the Encore and TFC releases, and unlikely to affect sales.

What I actually said, and I may still be wrong, is that it is a KO release which might jeopardise sales of a toy where TT are known to have a mold.
If you bought, say Metroplex instead of the superior TT version well one might be a little dim, and its unlikely to affect sales.

But a Fortress Maximus at a $300 price point, well that could seriously jeopardise sales of what might be eventually released. That seems a real moral dillemma that might not be present with say a Constructicons release or Dinobots since TT clearly doesn't have the molds.

In my heart of hearts, I know I would buy an Encore release. If I found it cheap enough, I'd buy the Korean TT release even. Would I buy it AFTER paying for a KO..... probably not.

jaydisc
15th February 2011, 07:43 PM
In many of the above cases, the KO was first, including Metroplex, Frenzy & Rumble.

5FDP
15th February 2011, 09:40 PM
My memory may be fading with age, but I know 100% that a KO version of Ratbat was released before the encore set came out with him in it. That's why I stayed away from buying a loose Ratbat on eBay.


What annoys me more is when collectors are deceived into thinking a counterfeit is real... they think it's legit, pay for it, only later to find out it's fake.

^ This is the real problem with KO's.

griffin
15th February 2011, 10:16 PM
That's my problem as well.
Ultimately I don't care too much if *vintage* TFs are knocked off, because there are collectors who can't afford the real thing, but would still be content with a 'stand in'.
As long as the KO can be identified as a KO, and doesn't get passed off as the real thing to unsuspecting buyers who are only wanting the real thing, it wouldn't be so bad... but unfortunately those things happen, cheating a lot of people out of more money than a KO is worth.

Oilspill
15th February 2011, 11:51 PM
When did those re-issues come out? Because the Transformers landscape as changed dramatically in the past 4 years.

Plus every man and his dog has got an Omega Supreme and Metroplex, so why would they buy a reissue on mass? Fort Max is a completely different kettle of fish and in a completely different time in Transformers history.

I don't have Omega Supreme. And I didn't have Metroplex so I bought the reissue. I don't even have a dog. :D

Verno
16th February 2011, 09:18 AM
I don't have Omega Supreme. And I didn't have Metroplex so I bought the reissue. I don't even have a dog. :D

I don't have them either. I don't even have a dog :P

But thats why reissues are created, for fans like yourself to get the opportunity to get them.

It's no ones fault that Takara released too many figures in the runs of Metroplex and Omega Supreme. But they shouldn't use that as an excuse for their bad management or over estimation of a toys popularity. They should do their research and then release a Fort Max reissue in selected numbers.

Hursticon
16th February 2011, 10:00 AM
They should do their research and then release a Fort Max reissue in selected numbers.

Or consider selling it through an Online Store like Hasbro US has, that might actually make the AU site somewhat useful. :rolleyes:

jaydisc
16th February 2011, 10:36 AM
It's no ones fault that Takara released too many figures in the runs of Metroplex and Omega Supreme. But they shouldn't use that as an excuse for their bad management or over estimation of a toys popularity. They should do their research and then release a Fort Max reissue in selected numbers.

Unfortunately, their research was probably gauged by how many fans said they wanted one, but then most couldn't cough up the big bucks when the time came, which IMO, is exactly what will happen with Fort Max. Sure, everyone says they want it, but when it's money-time, many will run away.

As to KO Mfg's being deceptive, I've found that occurring less and less (CHMS anyone?), and the same goes for KO retailers (uh, kotoys.com). While KOs are undoubtedly on the rise, deception, at least in my peripheral vision, seems to be on the way down.

kup
16th February 2011, 02:07 PM
My memory may be fading with age, but I know 100% that a KO version of Ratbat was released before the encore set came out with him in it. That's why I stayed away from buying a loose Ratbat on eBay.



^ This is the real problem with KO's.

I got hit and accidentally bought one of those ratbats some years ago. It's pretty accurate to the real thing, I didn't realize it until I did an comparison in person.

Sky Shadow
16th February 2011, 02:17 PM
Yes but those, all of those, were KO -after- the Encore and TFC releases, and unlikely to affect sales.

Reillyd - Metroplex, Frenzy, Rumble and Ratbat were all knocked off before they were rereleased by HasTakTom, plus Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, Ravage, Bombshell, Kickback, Shrapnel, Bumblebee and Optimus Prime have all been rereleased again after the knockoffs. Just as you say you wouldn't buy a real Transfomer after paying for a knockoff, neither would lots of other people. It is certain that the knockoffs of these toys have affected sales of actual reissues. Personally, I would have bought an Encore Metroplex, but never did, because the knockoff makers also - completely deceptively - released knockoffs of the Encore version and seeped them out to distributors like TFSource who sold them as genuine Encore Metroplexes. Releasing knockoff Fortress Maximi is completely wrong and may deter TakaraTomy from ever rereleasing them again.

gdmetro
16th February 2011, 02:37 PM
http://www.kotoys.com/forum/index.php/topic,1646.0.html :eek:

Wow... turned out to be a false rumour. All this discussion wasted.

I personally think it is too difficult for them to do a KO of fort max..at this point in time... maybe not enough capital to risk it... the mould is too large and too expensive to manufacture.. also to control the quality on it with the massive weight and structural integrity to consider.

Hopefully Has/Tak notices the attention and interest it got to do an encore!!



Can a mod change the title?

Verno
16th February 2011, 02:48 PM
Hopefully Has/Tak notices the attention and interest it got to do an encore!!

Maybe it was Takara who released the rumour to guage interest! :eek: Nah, thats wishful thinking.

Sky Shadow
16th February 2011, 02:53 PM
Victory? :confused:

Hursticon
16th February 2011, 02:56 PM
Maybe it was Takara who released the rumour to guage interest! :eek: Nah, thats wishful thinking.

We can hope and dream though. :D


Victory? :confused:

Against KOs? - Well, maybe this battle but the war continues unfortunately. :(

GoktimusPrime
16th February 2011, 03:01 PM
But a Fortress Maximus at a $300 price point, well that could seriously jeopardise sales of what might be eventually released. That seems a real moral dillemma that might not be present with say a Constructicons release or Dinobots since TT clearly doesn't have the molds.
I don't know if TakaraTOMY have lost the moulds for the Constructicons -- about 10 years ago they released a statement saying that the reason they didn't want to release reissue Devastator was because by that time it was already being heavily KOed and Takara said that they simply did not want to compete against bootleggers.


I don't have Omega Supreme. And I didn't have Metroplex so I bought the reissue. I don't even have a dog. :D
I had Omega Supreme and Metroplex, so I skipped Encore Omega Supreme (but I did get GADEP) and I got Encore Metroplex cos that way I could get the little missiles and Scamper's gun, plus the fact that the reissue has chrome thighs and rubber tyres (whereas my G1 has chrome-stickered thighs and plastic tyres).

I'm not a dog person. :p


Unfortunately, their research was probably gauged by how many fans said they wanted one, but then most couldn't cough up the big bucks when the time came, which IMO, is exactly what will happen with Fort Max. Sure, everyone says they want it, but when it's money-time, many will run away.
Yeah, I'd agree with this.


As to KO Mfg's being deceptive, I've found that occurring less and less (CHMS anyone?), and the same goes for KO retailers (uh, kotoys.com). While KOs are undoubtedly on the rise, deception, at least in my peripheral vision, seems to be on the way down.
The toys are designed to be deceptive insofar as being imitations of the originals, right down to the packaging. There's nothing on the packaging that seems to indicate that it's a knock off. With legitimate reissues, there are variations in packaging that tells you it's a reissue, for example the Encores all have the Encore logo (and the TOMY logo is different from the Takara logo on the originals). And of course, there's differences in copyright stampage on the toys.

Some more honest sellers will tell people that their products are KOs, but unfortunately there are a lot of dishonest sellers that try to palm off KOs as legits. And you have collectors like kup who end up getting stung paying for a toy that they believe is legit, but turns out to me a fake. :(

What KO makers could do if they cared about giving consumers the opportunity to make an informed purchase choice, is to make some kind of small variation to the toy and packaging to let people know. e.g. a minor change to the packaging or toy (e.g. stampage). There are often minor differences, but I don't think that was done intentionally (and even then, they're not easy to spot and not obvious to anyone who doesn't know what to look for). Just something like "Not a licensed product" or "Unlicensed" (or maybe the Jolly Roger :p :p)

Skullcruncher
16th February 2011, 03:02 PM
So just abominus and the technobots huh...... note someone mentioned the dinocasettes in that thread.

1AZRAEL1
16th February 2011, 03:34 PM
I think the dinocassettes are that guys wet dream. I don't know if it would actually happen. It's possible though. That might be a set I'd consider, as their rarity is stupid and expensive. As much as I would want to find legitimate ones, that's not likely to happen.

Paulbot
16th February 2011, 03:41 PM
A manufacturer of Knock Offs "is not dependable and can be tricky"?

Well duh!

heroic_decepticon
16th February 2011, 04:08 PM
I think the dinocassettes are that guys wet dream. I don't know if it would actually happen. It's possible though. That might be a set I'd consider, as their rarity is stupid and expensive. As much as I would want to find legitimate ones, that's not likely to happen.

yeah, its very dis-heartening trying to locate the dino-casettes, even when I'm willing to pay... I don't want to buy KOs of these, so hope to get them before they are KO-ed and at prices less stupid then USD$1000 per casette incomplete (yeah, I got such offers).... :(

valkyrie_76
16th February 2011, 09:22 PM
I think there was rumors not long ago about the Dinocassettes being reissued (doubt that they would be true but I like to tease a certain board member about it :D)

jaydisc
16th February 2011, 09:52 PM
The toys are designed to be deceptive insofar as being imitations of the originals, right down to the packaging.

Unfortunately, that is the description of nearly every "replica" in existence. Since you are admittedly not a KO purchaser, nor a packaging preserver/fetishist, I must assume you are taking these things for granted. Someone who purchases a KO does so because the original is unobtainable, either due to a lack of availability or a prohibitively high price. Many, if not most, KO purchasers are interested in a replica being as close to the original as possible, and for many that INCLUDES the packaging.

heroic_decepticon
16th February 2011, 10:29 PM
I think there was rumors not long ago about the Dinocassettes being reissued (doubt that they would be true but I like to tease a certain board member about it :D)

which member would that be? :D

reillyd
17th February 2011, 08:21 AM
This is probably going to degenerate pretty quickly into a KO toymakers are EVIL SCUM thread, because whether you are


A) against KO toy makers and KO in general or
B) Totally psyched to hear you are getting Fortress maximums/brave


It appears, from what the KOToys forum is saying, is that it was a HOAX.
Computron and Abombinus are still being made, and I'm not sure whether it
was mere cruelty or a way to gauge fan demand for a large scale KO toy.

valkyrie_76
26th March 2011, 08:30 PM
which member would that be? :D

You know who :D:D