Henkei/Classics/United Insanity

[gdmetro]

Are people mad?

Over at HD's blog: http://heroicdecepticon.blogspot.com/2011/03/hong-kong-market-watch-transformers.html (amazing by the way)
HD documented the crazy demand in Hong Kong that drove United/Generations prices- through the roof! Within a week or 2 of wave releases, they skyrocketed in price and were scarce to hunt down.

But the one line that takes the cake are my beloved Henkeis. A year ago they could still be purchased at seemingly retail prices. But when generations were announced the rush began. Once supply dried and was left to secondary market- Henkeis have now gone insanely expensive- at this rate, within the next few months they will reach g1-esque prices.

I was over at tfw and noticed a thread titled: $200 Henkei Ratchet.
I was slightly amused at a possible BIN of that price. But no. When I actually saw complete listings on ebay- that range from $180 to over $220 it hit me...:eek:

I have been personally hunting Henkei Ironhide for months now. Patiently waiting for the right BIN or auction. I got Henkei Smokescreen that way. But the price never was right. For the past month the price hovered at $75-95 price range after shipping. You can understand my reluctance to slam down cash for 1 deluxe at that price. Last week there were 5 listings at these prices- now they are all bought up. :eek:

I did a quick check on Henkei Mirage and Starscream. The former now breaches $100US. The latter is in the $90 mark- coming close to $100.
NB: these trends are for the more popular/scarcer figs.

For you g1ers/long time collectors have price hikes this crazy ever happened before? Was the g1 boom in the early to mid 2000s ever this bad?

A poster on HD's blog mentioned that this craziness might be warnings of a market that is about to crash. What do you guys think?

[liegeprime]

It's principles of economics. Supply and Demand... So far Henkei stuff have a limited supply and as such pieces will go for high prices if it is of high demand as well. Inflation in prices for G1 compared to more current lines - Henkei/Classics/United have similarities and variances.

For g1, a figure could be really expensive due to the scarcity of the figure - e.g unbroken Bristleback, Japan only released G1s. Popularity of the brick - Bludgeon. It could also be because the Item is known to be sought after so the sellers sell it highly priced, or in piecemeal - e.g. Fort Max.

Similarly newer items are expensive due to scarcity/ limited release - Henkei/ United - for Japs only yet sought after by non Jap collectors so with only a few pieces these are priced higher. But, arguably the QC is better so they charge more as well.

I have seen prices go high before and sometimes be on hiatus and plateau but with the advent of re-releases - eg Encore et all. Some figures go down in price - not much but still knocks a few dollars enough to make the figures affordable. Of course there is still some persistence on high pricing for really proven vintage pieces. KOs on the other hand are a bane to pricing of TFs.

G1s get reissued now for less (Encore) but the newer figures, well... unless these were to become classic pieces themselves and if the molds survive would end up in the future as highly priced as G1 TFs and could remain that way. Unless reissues ( quality ones okay - Im looking at RtS Rodimus while shaking my head) flood the market again for sought after figures matching the demand with enough supply. but it all boils down to not enough supply = higher demands = higher prices for few supplies left.

[GoktimusPrime]

Moral of the story: buy toys while they're current rather than waiting later and getting them on the aftermarket at inflated prices.

I bought Beast Wars Metals X-9 Ravage for 1800JPY ($22). In fact, I bought two of them so I could keep one sealed (I later traded the sealed one off for a bunch of loose G1 and G2 toys :p). The cheapest one on eBay's goes for US$129.99!!! :eek: :eek: For a freakin' Deluxe!

Man, those Henkei Ironhide and Ratchet prices are crazy. I just had a look on eBay for Universe Ironhide and Ratchet and they're ridiculously expensive too!! :eek: (Ironhide goes for US$49.55 and Ratchet for US$79.95... wtf?!)... but still cheaper than those Henkeis (although the cost of shipping Ironhide from the US compared from Hong Kong might off-set any saving).

I rarely look at aftermarket prices, but just looking at these prices for Ironhide and Ratchet has left me in utter disbelief... I'm not sure which one I find more incredible, these outlandish prices, or the fact that there are people out there who would pay them! :eek:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/facepalm_soundwave.jpg

[Pipesqueak]

Especially considering what woefully disappointing toys Universe/Henkei Ironhide and Ratchet were - more lines on the alt-modes than a jigsaw puzzle, annoying transformation, huge design defect that has them permanently looking at their feet - along with Galvatron, the worst classicsverse toys so far.

On the bright side, I know I'll make a mint if I sell mine!

[lcz128]

I actually really like and have always liked the mould. The seams on alt mode don't bother me that much and I have always liked the transformation for him. Once you've memorized what comes when - it's a beauty to transform!

In terms of these prices, I am glad I bought my henkei when they were released. Good time to come onboard or me I guess cause that was when I first started hanging with the crew. (: good times.

I do think it's kind of crazy how quickly prices have risen though. It makes sense to capitalise on the crazy demand- and unfortunately for those of us who just didn't put the money down at the time to buy them - we get burnt later. Ouch.

[GoktimusPrime]

I also quite like the mould. Yeah, it is tricky/fiddly, but that's to be expected considering that HasTak have engineered a toy based on a comic/cartoon model that completely:
a. changed the proportion of the original core robot (i.e. raised shoulders and head)
b. ignored the trailer portion, i.e. when transforming to robot mode the trailer essentially disappears (except for this very brief moment (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/b/b0/Ratchetg1cartoon.jpg) (blink and you'd miss it) :p)

Toy designers obviously can't ignore laws of reality and make half the toy vanish into thin air. In order to make the robot mode resemble the G1 Marvel/Sunbow model they could either:
1: give the toy a detachable platform similar to the G1 toys - as we saw with BotCon Timelines Ratchet and Ironhide, or...
2: incorporate all that vehicle kibble into the robot mode, which is what they chose to do with Universe/Henkei Ironhide and Ratchet

And don't forget that the toy needs to be Deluxe class which restricts the size and engineering (as it has to conform to the Deluxe price point). So considering that it's a fairly ambitious endeavour that has substantial inherent challenges I think the moulds a fairly well designed. My only criticism is how the heads are fixed staring down. Other than that I quite like them. :)

Comparison between G1 and Henkeis; G1 had half their vehicle form as detachable platforms whereas Henkei incorporates the entire vehicle into the robot mode
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/comparisons/Classicsverse/th_comparison_chugurg1_ironhide.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/comparisons/Classicsverse/th_comparison_chugurg1_ratchet.jpg

BotCon Timelines Ironhide: more simpler and less kibble-laden robot form (repaint/retool of Energon Tow-Line), but about half the vehicle form detaches as a platform (click on image to see view BC Ratchet w/ platform)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/More%20Than%20Meets%20The%20Eye%20EN101/mtmte_en24.jpg (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/7/76/Timelinestoy-RatchetDiE.jpg)

[uteiki]

wow henkei Ratchet is going for such a high price now? :eek:

Just a year & a half ago i had a spare one (misb) up for sale for $33 on ebay. I had to re-list it 2 times before it sold...

[rampagesss]

Yea ive noticed the Henkei Ratchet has started to get insane asking prices, just glad i bought mine when they first came out.
But if you want a shock try getting Henkei Wildrider (http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-Takara-Henkei-Wildrider-MOSC-Hot-Rodimus-/400200549906?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2dcfc612) I know its not the same thing but the price on them is insane now days :eek:

[5FDP]

Glad I bought United Tracks and Jazz when they first became available. Seen both go for almost triple the price since their release.

[KaRNiV8L PRiME]

Glad I bought United Tracks and Jazz when they first became available. Seen both go for almost triple the price since their release.

I Paid $74 for both of these delivered but both well worth the money imo

[jaydisc]

12-14 months ago, I decided I wanted to have a spare of each Henkei before I opened any, and while it was a bit of a mission, the only ones that really hurt were Crystal Convoy and Wildrider. I did relatively well on the rest. I think Mirage was the most expensive non-exclusive to acquire at that time at about A$50 (shipped). Ironhide and Ratchet were both A$40 shipped in February 2010.

My moral of the story: Pre-order two of everything.

[Lint]

12-14 months ago, I decided I wanted to have a spare of each Henkei before I opened any, and while it was a bit of a mission, the only ones that really hurt were Crystal Convoy and Wildrider. I did relatively well on the rest. I think Mirage was the most expensive non-exclusive to acquire at that time at about A$50 (shipped). Ironhide and Ratchet were both A$40 shipped in February 2010.

My moral of the story: Pre-order two of everything.

I would have thought the moral of this story is to not decide you want to have a spare of each toy :p

[jaydisc]

Maybe before the opening part, but since opening, I wish I had 4 sets!

(like someone I know here does)

[Eazy D]

I've had my wallet clobbered too recently.

I got a sudden compulsion to acquire henkei smokescreen and red alert and had to shell out AUD 90 and 100 for them respectively on ebay. The universe 2.0 and classics prices are soaring too. Universe smokescreen which has the most stupid paintscheme cost me AUD 45 and popular figures like the universe 2.0 starscream are pulling about 80 AUD.

My only guess is that because generations are really pumping out figures for all the classic season 1 autobots a lot of people are now seeing the opportunity to get a complete season 1 line up and are going back to pick up figures that they weren't quite interested in before.

I have an unfortunate fixation with hasbro backing cards so whenever I get a henkei/united figure I have to shell out for the hasbro counterpart as well just to get the cardback! Makes back-collecting even more expensive.

[GoktimusPrime]

I have an unfortunate fixation with hasbro backing cards so whenever I get a henkei/united figure I have to shell out for the hasbro counterpart as well just to get the cardback! Makes back-collecting even more expensive.
$25-30 is a lot to pay for a piece of cardboard! :eek: :eek: Maybe you could liaise with someone who doesn't care about keeping card backs and ask if they can donate/sell them to you. <shrug>

The card art isn't that good IMO... and don't even start me about how poorly written Hasbro's tech specs bios are... *nerd.rage*

[Shirokaze]

I'm feeling the pain at the moment. I decided to wait on RtS Jazz and Tracks till they appeared in stores, and now since they were so short packed I haven't been able to nab one in Brissie.. now people are asking $40 delivered on eBay for a fig that would cost $24 at BigW. Same deal with Generations Scourge and Kup; who know's if they will ever turn up?:(

[UltraMagnus]

Warpath just went to retail at stores here at $200 flat which is exceptionally expensive for 1 figure in HK.

Having said that - it was sold out in 3 hrs I am told.

So moral of the story is, buy in bulk from US, then hold for a few months till you see 1 or 2 on ebay, and sell it at $5 cheaper than that.

You will make your money back plus profit and you will feel great about it! :)

Its only going to get worst especially given there is insecticons, reflector and other third party products released....

[GoktimusPrime]

Warpath just went to retail at stores here at $200 flat which is exceptionally expensive for 1 figure in HK.
$200 for a single Deluxe?!?!?? Damn man... that's nearly how much I paid for Fortress Maximus! :eek:


Having said that - it was sold out in 3 hrs I am told.

And in here lies part of the problem. We may complain about sellers charging ridiculously high prices, but so long as there are people willing to pay these prices, then more sellers will continue to charge them. (-_-) If I paid $200 for a Deluxe, that toy better be packaged in a gold-plated lead box hand delivered by Alexandria Mills, Ximena Navarrete, Jesinta Campbell, Ashleigh Francis and Maiko Itai!

[Vector Prime]

Warpath just went to retail at stores here at $200 flat which is exceptionally expensive for 1 figure in HK.


$200 for a single Deluxe?!?!?? Damn man... that's nearly how much I paid for Fortress Maximus! :eek:

$200 HKD = $25 AUD :rolleyes:

If you got Fort Max for that price, then you got the deal of the century :p

[iceburn]

actually 200hkd for a deluxe is okay.
wreckgar and preceptor deluxes gts are selling at near 230hkd

[UltraMagnus]

actually 200hkd for a deluxe is okay.
wreckgar and preceptor deluxes gts are selling at near 230hkd

I think standard cost is $139HKD for a figure from Hobbybase. But $71 was going to Japan Tsunami appeal so I would be happy to shell out the money.

I cant seem to find it anywhere, but having said that I ordered a case from BBTS - so not really stressed about it :)

[GoktimusPrime]

$200 HKD = $25 AUD :rolleyes:

If you got Fort Max for that price, then you got the deal of the century :p


actually 200hkd for a deluxe is okay.
wreckgar and preceptor deluxes gts are selling at near 230hkd

Aah right, I assumed it was AUD. :p :p That makes more sense now and it is indeed a fair price for a Deluxe. :)

[gdmetro]

I am dumb, stupid, for not picking a MISB Henkei ironhide for $85USD 2 weeks ago. Because even at that insane price, I would have still won out on top. Yes the price has shot up. I deserve it. I have now officially decided I am not going to get one unless a miracle happens and its at a reasonable cost (in my dreams :rolleyes:)

And what makes me say that?

This:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Takara-Transformers-Classic-Henkei-Ironhide-C-11-BIB-/260756169126?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionF igures_JN&hash=item3cb64761a6

It is a USED Henkei Ironhide that went for $122.25 USD (exc shipping).

MADNESS!!! :eek:

[Doubledealer]

I am dumb, stupid, for not picking a MISB Henkei ironhide for $85USD 2 weeks ago. Because even at that insane price, I would have still won out on top. Yes the price has shot up. I deserve it. I have now officially decided I am not going to get one unless a miracle happens and its at a reasonable cost (in my dreams :rolleyes:)

And what makes me say that?

This:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Takara-Transformers-Classic-Henkei-Ironhide-C-11-BIB-/260756169126?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionF igures_JN&hash=item3cb64761a6

It is a USED Henkei Ironhide that went for $122.25 USD (exc shipping).

MADNESS!!! :eek:

There were 4 MOSC Henkei Ironhide's that sold for US$58-68 within the last couple of weeks (3 of which were BIN). Don't give up hope just yet old son. :)

[primatives]

Henkei Ratches have gone up to about 200USD!! Now that is insane!!

[jaydisc]

Kapow Toys on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/Kapow_Toys/status/52751989297258496):


United possibly getting a rerun - toys in the frame - Jazz - Tracks, F&R,Wreck Gar, Blurr,Scourge,Wheeljack - should get confirm next week

[gdmetro]

Kapow Toys on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/Kapow_Toys/status/52751989297258496):

Cool. Will be interesting if these shelf warm as Henkei Convoy/Hound have or still fly off the shelf. Now I can pick up a F/R and people who prefer the united jazz who missed out can get it!

[Vector Prime]

AmiAmi (http://www.amiami.jp/shop?set=english&vgform=SearchProducts&sort_1_name=UpdateDate&sort_1_direction=DESC&results_per_page=40&max_results=0&next=Next&previous=Previous&template=default/product/e_search_results.html&no_results_template=default/product/no_results.html&vgvar_1_name=e_keyword&vgvar_1_value=transformers&vgvar_1_operator=LIKE) have listed some of the earlier United figures again for 'pre-order' for an April release (thanks to board member uteiki for the heads up on this one :))

[Paulbot]

Here's hoping I can get a reasonable price from someone on a Jazz. Hate not being able to order stuff online at the moment.

[UltraMagnus]

Kapow Toys on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/Kapow_Toys/status/52751989297258496):


Its not just the united that are going to be re-released, some henkei in demand items will be re-released (like Hound/Prime/Bumblebee/Astrotrain)

[jaydisc]

That doesn't appear to make much sense. Hound and Prime have already been re-released, and BB is part of United, which would only leave Astrotrain?

[UltraMagnus]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110665813920&autorefresh=true

Ahhh this has finally got slightly cheaper. Just watched this auction. I saw one last week sell for $220USD! This is a bargain in comparison...

[GoktimusPrime]

If I were eating or drinking something right now, I'd be spitting it all over my laptop... that's still a massive rip off for a Deluxe! (especially one that was just a regular retail release) :eek:

US$220 may be an effingly obscene rip off, but US$93 is still a rip off IMO, even if it's half as much of a rip off as the first price. If I saw someone kick someone else in the janglies twice, then came up to me and kicked me in the janglies once... I wouldn't say that I got a good deal just because the other guy came off worse!! ;) :p

[loophole]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110665813920&autorefresh=true

Ahhh this has finally got slightly cheaper. Just watched this auction. I saw one last week sell for $220USD! This is a bargain in comparison...

i was going to bid on this but then i forgot to :(

[UltraMagnus]

US$220 may be an effingly obscene rip off, but US$93 is still a rip off IMO, even if it's half as much of a rip off as the first price. If I saw someone kick someone else in the janglies twice, then came up to me and kicked me in the janglies once... I wouldn't say that I got a good deal just because the other guy came off worse!! ;) :p


Supply and Demand... simple - Economics of scale
Ratchet seems to be the hardest one to find at the moment.

I remember before Hound was re-released it was going somewhere similar in price.

They wont re-release this until end of the year possibly longer, so if you all want to make money - sell the item this next month!

[gdmetro]

Supply and Demand... simple - Economics of scale
Ratchet seems to be the hardest one to find at the moment.

I remember before Hound was re-released it was going somewhere similar in price.

They wont re-release this until end of the year possibly longer, so if you all want to make money - sell the item this next month!

Do you know if they'll re-release ironhide? I need that guy.

Selling ratchet is tempting... but what if they don't re-release?

[UltraMagnus]

Do you know if they'll re-release ironhide? I need that guy.

Selling ratchet is tempting... but what if they don't re-release?

I can almost guarantee this year you will see KO Ratchet and KO Ironhide.

The only thing I can see happening is a full release of classics toys again as a new line. They have enough for 50.

[Doubledealer]

Well the recent lines (United & RTS) have seen the re-release of Voyager Megatron & Deluxe Bumblebee so maybe they'll just continue this trend, releasing repaints of toys that have come before along with the new molds. I certainly wouldn't mind a straight up re-release of Henkei Alert though, although it'll doubtless come out right after I've bought one for $80+ on ebay. :p

[UltraMagnus]

Well the recent lines (United & RTS) have seen the re-release of Voyager Megatron & Deluxe Bumblebee so maybe they'll just continue this trend, releasing repaints of toys that have come before along with the new molds. I certainly wouldn't mind a straight up re-release of Henkei Alert though, although it'll doubtless come out right after I've bought one for $80+ on ebay. :p

After seeing an abundance of Generations Red Alert at Hobbybase (at least 10) and other stores still holding this, I wouldnt count on Henkei Red Alert any time soon :)