Shelfwarmers? Who's fault is it? Discussion

[SkyWarp91]

Shelfwarmers - toys that aren't high in demand but for some reason supplied in such large quantities that they stay on the shelves longer than most toy lines and are eventually (if lucky enough) in clearance.

In my couple of years of TF hunting I've seen quite a bit of shelf-warming, like HFTD Sea Attack Ravage, Universe Bruticus (not the combiner, the ugly dragon thing), Universe Darkwing and etc. but I've wondered why is it that such toys are bought in large quantities when not many people (completists lol), including the kids don't want them, or even produced for that manner? And is it just wasting plastic at the end in the day?

Shelf-warming may not be seen as a bad thing to some of us but I think it is, as it's perhaps one of the factors why we skipped Wave 3 of HFTD Voyagers and that there's uncertainty with Wave 6 of Generations.

Who's fault do you think is responsible for shelfwarming? The retailers that import the shelfwarmers? The consumers that maybe don't know what they want? Or the manufacturers/designers that overestimate their consumer's willingness to buy their products? Is it a combination of faults? And can consumers play a role in influencing what is produced and not?

[gdmetro]

Very interesting topic.

I think the real questions to ask are: what causes shelf-warming? Is it possible to not have shelf-warming? I think there are multiple issues.

One issue is - I think in any wave or line there will always be some figures that are more in demand than others which will create the issue of shelf-warmers. Retailers cant/ don't selectively order the "popular" ones- they order by wave. Even online retailers whom are tailored to after market prices order by wave, then sell the figures usually by adjusted individual prices- i.e. BBTS selling warpath for $25, where the rest of the wave is significantly less as they are in less demand.
This obviously leads to the figs that are less in demand shelf-warm as retailers cannot order/stock more until those sell out.

This problem is then exasperated by any fig that is overpriced, in an unwelcome pricepoint/size/ or just not popular/fugly.

One example is the Bruticus you mentioned, the other, ROTF Supreme Devastator. I.e. last week I walked into TRU and there were literally over 30 of them. $150 each. Considering other stores found it extremely difficult to get rid of this monstrosity at a significantly lower price- I seriously wonder how long these will shelfwarm at TRU for.

[Sky Shadow]

If it's an entire case assortment that's shelfwarming then it's a combination of ignorance on behalf of the buyers/suppliers for individual chains and bad luck. That is: the retail chains don't know enough to realise which waves or Transformer franchises are 'good' and 'bad', so they stock far too many of waves with toys that will inevitably shelfwarm. And, because of this ignorance, it means it's mainly bad luck that results in shelf and pegwarmers.

If it's just one toy from a case assortment shelfwarming then it's Hasbro's fault for making a crap toy or shortpacking the wrong items. If they shortpack awesome toys and longpack a crap shelfwarmer then they should have known better. Also, sometimes a whole case assortment is just multiples of one crap toy, like Transmetal Scavenger or Recon Ravage and again Hasbro is to blame for shelf/pegwarming.

[gdmetro]

If it's an entire case assortment that's shelfwarming then it's a combination of ignorance on behalf of the buyers/suppliers for individual chains and bad luck. That is: the retail chains don't know enough to realise which waves or Transformer franchises are 'good' and 'bad', so they stock far too many of waves with toys that will inevitably shelfwarm. And, because of this ignorance, it means it's mainly bad luck that results in shelf and pegwarmers.

If it's just one toy from a case assortment shelfwarming then it's Hasbro's fault for making a crap toy or shortpacking the wrong items. If they shortpack awesome toys and longpack a crap shelfwarmer then they should have known better. Also, sometimes a whole case assortment is just multiples of one crap toy, like Transmetal Scavenger or Recon Ravage and again Hasbro is to blame for them being shelf/pegwarming.

But isn't the goal to sell as much as possible? Is it then right to blame either retailers or especially Hasbro for not knowing? How can they know that a certain figure will be popular or not? (Even their market research cannot be 100% accurate, otherwise Hasbro would be scoring home runs majority of the time- which one cannot say with their recent track record).

[Vector Prime]

As gdmetro stated, some items have no choice but to shelfwarm owing to how they are packaged in their cases.

For that I think you can blame the marketing guys who think that just because it's Optimus Prime or Bumblebee, it will sell, so they pack higher quantities of them into a case.

On other occasions, a crap mold may be redecoed too many times (once again, blame the marketing guys) and it's destined to shelfwarm (eg Sea Attack Ravage) - like the expression, you can't polish a turd, so no matter how you dress it up or paint it, it's just crap and you can't fool people into buying it.

I think sometimes you can also blame the buyers for the stores (who listen to the marketing dept) and order tonnes of a (wrong) product that will clutter the shelf which then has a follow on effect in that they won't order any new stock from the later waves.

Verdict: Blame the marketing department at Hasbro :p

[Sky Shadow]

But isn't the goal to sell as much as possible? Is it then right to blame either retailers or especially Hasbro for not knowing? How can they know that a certain figure will be popular or not? (Even their market research cannot be 100% accurate, otherwise Hasbro would be scoring home runs majority of the time- which one cannot say with their recent track record).

The second that a new Transformer toy is announced or leaked, Hasbro have countless pages of Transfans writing on Seibertron, TFW2005, here, etc. saying whether they will buy a toy or whether it looks like crap. Merely reading those should be a good start for Hasbro to work out a sensible balance for case assortments.

[LordCyrusOmega]

I think there are multiple reasons for shelfwarmers.

From what I've observed certain waves of toys (depending on store) are larger or smaller then others. For example HFTD Payload is in far greater supply then RTS Jazz where only 2 made it to the shelves (Target)

Currently Ejector and Scalpel are shelfwarming in stores alongside Wave 1 PCC 5 packs, HFTD and ROTF Voyagers though it appears the the biggest type of toys are repaints.

I can't say whether the stores, supplier or customer are to blame for shelf warmers. I can't help but wonder if the money spent on repaints that don't sell to save money couldn't be better spent on new moulds that could sell.

Can't Hasbro see that the money saved on repaints is going down the drain in unsold product?

[GoktimusPrime]

Usually I'd say it's HasTak's fault. Sometimes it's the retailer's fault. Sometimes it's both! Other times it's bad luck.

Some examples:

+ G1 1986 Kup (plastic wheels): Hasbro's? They must have overproduced this toy, because by the end of that year stores were trying to flog them off at $5 a pop. My mother went and bought a whole load of them - I got a Kup, my brother got a Kup and every kid who received a birthday and/or Xmas gift from us got a Kup!! :D

+ Machine Wars: bad luck. As Beast Wars emerged to become highly successful, Hasbro decided to test the market to see what if there was sufficient interest in vehicular Transformers. There wasn't. The US Kay-Bee and KB Toys exclusive line was shipped to Australia and sold everywhere where they shelf warmed, leaving people (like me) who imported them from the US when they thought they were American store exclusives feeling a tad silly for having gone through that expense. :p

+ Beast Machines Supreme Cheetor: Hasbro's and TRU's fault. Hasbro shouldn't have made such a huge expensive version of Cheetor, especially when there was a cheaper Mega version to buy. They should've just went with Night Slash Cheetor in the beginning.

+ Transformers Animorphs: Hasbro's fault. You make crap toys, of course they're going to shelf warm.

+ Reissue God Ginrai: Takara's fault. They massively overproduced this toy.

+ Reissue Metroplex, Omega Supreme, Sky Lynx: bad luck? TOMY's fault? Clearly not enough people were interested in getting these reissues... was it TakaraTOMY's fault for overestimating the market or just bad luck?

+ Combiner Class Devastator: Hasbro's fault. Make a crappy and overpriced toy... guess what? Shelfwarmer!

+ Legends Class Devastator (Hasbro): Hasbro's fault. It's a great set of toys, but Hasbro should've released this toy a lot sooner - ya know, around the time the movie was out! Not like a year later when ROTF is no longer flavour of the month for most kids.

+ Recon Ravage & Sea Attack Ravage: Hasbro's fault. 'Sif we need such pointless repaints. Arguably Wal-Mart's fault too...

[Sharky]

Sometimes it is the retailers fault like kmart who ordered a massive amount of movie voyagers with alot still having payloads and ratchets and seasprays sitting on the shelf.... which inturn prevented fresh newer figures (higbrow) from ever arriving to our stores. not to mention the challenge of finding RTS voyagers.....

[Bartrim]

The second that a new Transformer toy is announced or leaked, Hasbro have countless pages of Transfans writing on Seibertron, TFW2005, here, etc. saying whether they will buy a toy or whether it looks like crap. Merely reading those should be a good start for Hasbro to work out a sensible balance for case assortments.

THIS!!!!!!! It really wouldn't take much for someone from Hasbro to go through the main boards and see what figures excite the fans. Then they would go "Oh the fans aren't that excited about the 7th ROTF Bumblebee repaint... Maybe we shouldn't flood the shelves with these... Maybe we should replace those figures in the cases with more of the Jazz and Tracks figures so the fans aren't forced to buy them elsewhere."

[LordCyrusOmega]

It would be nice if HasTak considered the fans more however we are only a small part of the market.

What they should do is just release smaller amounts in the waves and then have a second run if need be.

[Sky Shadow]

It would be nice if HasTak considered the fans more however we are only a small part of the market.

That was true ten years ago, but now it's a fallacy. We're a whopping great big part of the market, and common sense dictates that if 80% of people posting about a leaked toy say that it looks like utter poo then it is idiotic to put that toy more than one-to-a-case.

[Golden Phoenix]

Sometimes it is the retailers fault like kmart who ordered a massive amount of movie voyagers with alot still having payloads and ratchets and seasprays sitting on the shelf.... which inturn prevented fresh newer figures (higbrow) from ever arriving to our stores. not to mention the challenge of finding RTS voyagers.....

Agreed
I think one of the key factor when it comes to shelfwarming is how long the figure has been out and how many are available.
Some shops will simply order to much and when they put more out on the shelves they are the same figures that took ages to sell before.

[Mechbiter]

As a retailer myself, I've noticed a significan problem with the case lots themselves.

Take for example the recent Thor movies toys:
1x Loki
1x Odin
1x Frost Giant
3x Lightning Clash Thor
3x Battle Hammer Thor
3x Sword Spike Thor

While unconfimed, Wave 2 looks like it will be
1x Volstagg
1x Hogun
1x Frost Giant
3x ??? Thor
3x ??? Thor
3x Sword Spike Thor

Can anyone see at problem yet?

[Seraphim Prime]

That was true ten years ago, but now it's a fallacy. We're a whopping great big part of the market, and common sense dictates that if 80% of people posting about a leaked toy say that it looks like utter poo then it is idiotic to put that toy more than one-to-a-case.

Hasbro consistently states at BotCon that fans (the ones who post on boards, attend BotCon for the weekend, etc) make up, at most, 10% of their total customers. We are still a relatively minor side of sales to them, and as long as Bumblebees and Optimus Primes are still selling, they will continue to make them, despite how much we may protest.

The issue comes more when hasbro places its bets on a character that flops (eg: RotF Skids), or a minor character that already has plenty of saturation (eg: Movie Ironhide).

In Australia I'd say adult fans are more important (as hasbro AU has stated that Generations sells faster/better than HftD & RtS), but worldwide (which is what Hasbro US cares about) fans are a small percentage.




As a retailer myself, I've noticed a significan problem with the case lots themselves.

Take for example the recent Thor movies toys:
1x Loki
1x Odin
1x Frost Giant
3x Lightning Clash Thor
3x Battle Hammer Thor
3x Sword Spike Thor

While unconfimed, Wave 2 looks like it will be
1x Volstagg
1x Hogun
1x Frost Giant
3x ??? Thor
3x ??? Thor
3x Sword Spike Thor

Can anyone see at problem yet?

Yeah - that is a little ridiculous, and is inevitable when your cast of characters is small, but way too weighted on the wrong side. Luckily Transformers aren't quite at that stage yet.

[GoktimusPrime]

While adult collectors have significantly increased lately, I'd say we're still a minority. Albeit a sizable minority. Big enough that Hasbro ought to pay attention to us, but not so big that they should cater to our needs over that of the majority demographic (children).

Having said that, a lot of the crappy gimmicks that Hasbro chucks into their TF toys (e.g. electronic "Try Me!" features) are more to impress retailers rather than kids. Kids will buy well made toys regardless of gimmicks and even in the absence of a TV show or movie to promote it. Look at how Robots In Disguise just flew off shelves months before the TV show aired on TV here. Same with G1 -- by the end of 1984 the Transformers franchise had grossed over US$1.4 million in the US making it the most successful debut toyline in history (not sure if that record's been beaten since or not). And a lot of that success would have come from the toys' own merit.

IMO a good Transformer toy is one that appeals to both children and adult collectors alike; one that looks good and is fun to play with. And I reckon these are the toys that tend to sell better... the shelfwarmers are the ones which lack appeal to either demographic (either through design or other factors like with the delayed release of Legends Devvie -- most adult collectors already imported the Japanese version, and most kids aren't consciously thinking about ROTF at the time since it was a year after the film came out).

[Sharky]

As a retailer myself, I've noticed a significan problem with the case lots themselves.

Take for example the recent Thor movies toys:
1x Loki
1x Odin
1x Frost Giant
3x Lightning Clash Thor
3x Battle Hammer Thor
3x Sword Spike Thor

While unconfimed, Wave 2 looks like it will be
1x Volstagg
1x Hogun
1x Frost Giant
3x ??? Thor
3x ??? Thor
3x Sword Spike Thor

Can anyone see at problem yet?

there isnt enough thors.... hehe i do understand that thor is "the main movie guy" but why cant they just 2 pack the entire wave... most people are going to atleast want a loki or a frost giant to combat thor.. its rediculous case packing..

[Sky Shadow]

Hasbro consistently states at BotCon that fans (the ones who post on boards, attend BotCon for the weekend, etc) make up, at most, 10% of their total customers. We are still a relatively minor side of sales to them, and as long as Bumblebees and Optimus Primes are still selling, they will continue to make them, despite how much we may protest.

The whole point of this thread is that Hasbro doesn't have a clue. Find the last time that Hasbro said that at BotCon, because I'm pretty sure it's still the same regurgitated made-up statistic from years ago. Fans are not a negligible percentage of the Transformer-buying public, and the fact is that a crap toy is a crap toy. If collectors think a toy is rubbish, why force it upon kids? By releasing shelfwarmers, Hasbro is just ensuring they lose repeat purchases from kids who feel ripped off that they got a crap toy like Sea Attack Ravage.

[UltraMarginal]

The second that a new Transformer toy is announced or leaked, Hasbro have countless pages of Transfans writing on Seibertron, TFW2005, here, etc. saying whether they will buy a toy or whether it looks like crap. Merely reading those should be a good start for Hasbro to work out a sensible balance for case assortments.


THIS!!!!!!! It really wouldn't take much for someone from Hasbro to go through the main boards and see what figures excite the fans. Then they would go "Oh the fans aren't that excited about the 7th ROTF Bumblebee repaint... Maybe we shouldn't flood the shelves with these... Maybe we should replace those figures in the cases with more of the Jazz and Tracks figures so the fans aren't forced to buy them elsewhere."

The thing is that this is a relatively small sample size to the hundreds of thousands of kids out there who just want a transformer. While the collector market for transformers is huge, the general sales market for transformers has got to be much bigger. so considerations of what the fans want while important to hasbro, surely can't be a guiding light to their decisions, especially given how so many posts, especially overseas have traditionally been picking on the negatives and why nots. it's only in more recent times that the fandom has become more reasonable and this leads to a broad spectrum of yes no maybe, I'll have to see it for myself first. That's not a lot of help.



+ G1 1986 Kup (plastic wheels): Hasbro's? They must have overproduced this toy, because by the end of that year stores were trying to flog them off at $5 a pop. My mother went and bought a whole load of them - I got a Kup, my brother got a Kup and every kid who received a birthday and/or Xmas gift from us got a Kup!! :D

I so totally wish this had happened in my home town back then.



+ Reissue Metroplex, Omega Supreme, Sky Lynx: bad luck? TOMY's fault? Clearly not enough people were interested in getting these reissues... was it TakaraTOMY's fault for overestimating the market or just bad luck?

I personally think the asking price on these was just too high, yes they are targeted at collectors, but seriously, they didn't cost that much 20 years ago, and given that manufacturing techniques have improved soooo much, the enjoyment value of a re-issue sky lynx, next to a brand new classics deluxe at a quarter or less of the price, is questionable. The first I saw of the hasbro/takara re-issues was a hot rod for $25 in a TRU, I snapped it up without even thinking twice. later I saw others, skids, Inferno, around the $60 - $70 mark, just un-justifiable. I bought Metroplex and Omega Supreme through BBTS but only on a massive clearance sale.




+ Combiner Class Devastator: Hasbro's fault. Make a crappy and overpriced toy... guess what? Shelfwarmer!

+ Legends Class Devastator (Hasbro): Hasbro's fault. It's a great set of toys, but Hasbro should've released this toy a lot sooner - ya know, around the time the movie was out! Not like a year later when ROTF is no longer flavour of the month for most kids.

+ Recon Ravage & Sea Attack Ravage: Hasbro's fault. 'Sif we need such pointless repaints. Arguably Wal-Mart's fault too...

Honestly I think all these products suffered first and foremost, by just looking crap. regardless of whatever reasons were given, or how well the idea "fit the movie" A monkey devastator and ravage that transforms into a ball, are just not cool. What parent is going to buy a crazy robot monkey, or strange HR Gieger inspired dog, when right next to that is a really cool dumptruck, or audi, or ice cream truck at a fifth of the price. These three are just unfortunate by products of the difficulty of transposing some of the movie designs to toys.



Currently Ejector and Scalpel are shelfwarming in stores alongside Wave 1 PCC 5 packs, HFTD and ROTF Voyagers though it appears the the biggest type of toys are repaints.

I can't say whether the stores, supplier or customer are to blame for shelf warmers. I can't help but wonder if the money spent on repaints that don't sell to save money couldn't be better spent on new moulds that could sell.

Can't Hasbro see that the money saved on repaints is going down the drain in unsold product?

I think repaints of certain figures is a good idea, especially since for HasTak, it's making the most of a mold. they could quickly get to the piont on repaints, where it's OK if stuff goes for a relly low price as they paid for design and production on the first paint scheme and every cent is pure profit. I do agree though that certain figures would sell better, if just re-released, ie Jazz and tracks, while others like all the iterations of ravage from rotf, could have been totally skipped.


[QUOTE=gdmetro;231748]But isn't the goal to sell as much as possible?QUOTE]

Absolutely, the more sold the more profit, as I said above, there would be much higher profit margins on repaints as well, and I think we are starting to see HasTak be a lot smarter with repaints, ala Tracks and Wheeljack. As we've seen with recent releases, there is an element of poor timing in ordering, long packing prime and bb is a standard practice as they are popular characters, and I'm sure you will see them move, maybe not straight away but over a couple months.

Don't forget, products don't have to move the day after they are shelved. We see things we are desperate for moving from shelves, and we grab stuff as soon as we see it, but parents are only going to buy for birthdays and Christmas. which means apart from christmas and mid year sales, there is a general lull on shelves through the rest of the year.

I think True shelfwarming, ala Supreme devastator, rotf ravage etc, is a combination of low appeal, high price, and in some cases over ordering and poor timing.

there are several steps in the developing, ordering and store purchasing process that are judgement calls that can sometimes be way off the mark.

[Paulbot]

I think in general by the time that a toy is leaked, the case assortments have already been worked out (as the factory is producing the toy) so fan reaction isn't going to make much of an impact.

From a purely subjective point of view (I have no facts to back any of this up): I think that ugly toys don't sell that well and I don't think TF toys in robot mode don't sell as well as ones in vehicle mode. ROTF toys that are packaged as their ugly (subjective) robot modes tend to double the effect.

Look at ROTF Wheelie -- and if you've forgotten, go look at your local Target there's probably still a few on the shelf two years later. The other toys on sale with him (Sideswipe, Smokescreen, Breakway, Rampage, Sideways, Skids) were all much more appealing vehicles: why would a kid, parent or collector pick the ugly robot thing over one of them? If Wheelie had been sold in vehicle mode I think it would not be shelfwarming as badly. Being cramped up in robot mode in package didn't help either. Nor did Hasbro help themselves by overestimating the appeal of Wheelie in the movie (everyone will love the way this little robot calls Mikaela a bitch and then humps her leg right?)

[Mechbiter]

I think it'd be interesting to find out what kids realy do think about the TFs on the shelf. Anyone have a nephew or something they could take shopping one week so they could see how an average 8 to 10 y/o would react?

[GoktimusPrime]

I personally think the asking price on these was just too high, yes they are targeted at collectors, but seriously, they didn't cost that much 20 years ago, and given that manufacturing techniques have improved soooo much, the enjoyment value of a re-issue sky lynx, next to a brand new classics deluxe at a quarter or less of the price, is questionable.
Remember that TakaraTOMY manufactures their reissues in limited production runs because it's targetted at a niche adult collector market. Hasbro on the other hand aren't as discerning with the marketing of their reissues (hence why they're subject to contemporary child safety laws and many of their reissues had to be modified accordingly)


The first I saw of the hasbro/takara re-issues was a hot rod for $25 in a TRU, I snapped it up without even thinking twice. later I saw others, skids, Inferno, around the $60 - $70 mark, just un-justifiable. I bought Metroplex and Omega Supreme through BBTS but only on a massive clearance sale.
Hot Rod was exceptionally well priced in Australia, but otherwise TRU Hasbro G1 reissues in Australia were mostly overpriced (just like MP Ghost Starscream!). Takara's TFC Skids and Inferno reissues sold at 3000JPY RRP each (approx. $34). You could go to an Australian import store and purchase Japanese reissues at the same price as what Hasbro's reissues were selling for at TRU!! Of course we know that imports are always expensive here because of all the import taxes, duties, levies etc. that the Australian gov't slaps on it -- but the Hasbro reissues were locally released... there was no excuse for them to be that expensive other than TRU just wanting to charge high prices for them. So 'sif you wouldn't just import a Takara reissue -- particularly with group orders reducing individual cost of shipping, it worked out to be CHEAPER than buying local Hasbro versions at TRU here! And of course Takara's reissues weren't modified for the sake of child safety (e.g. newtered launchers, over-lengthened missiles etc.) or for the sake of being cheap (e.g. lack of chrome).

Encore Omega Supreme retailed for 10,000JPY ($113) and Metroplex for 7000JPY ($79) - but some things that made them more expensive for Aussies were:
1: Size. With smaller toys you can order them in bulk and have them shipped together in a big box. With these figures, you could fit maybe one or two toys in a large box, and that was it. So it was harder to save on postage with group orders.
2: The Aussie dollar took a spectacular nosedive (after floating really high for about 0.98USD for ages) around the time that Metroplex came. Hoo boy, I remember this well as my wallet took a good pounding. :( But that's just bad luck with the exchange rate (just as we're all now experiencing good fortune with the really strong AUD atm :)).

But for the domestic market in Japan, I think these toys were reasonably priced. Also remember that technically they're not reissues in Japan as Japan never got Omega Supreme or Sky Lynx during G1. So you'd think a lot of Japanese adult collectors would've scooped up these characters who appeared in the G1 cartoon but never had toys for... but alas, not enough ...


Honestly I think all these products suffered first and foremost, by just looking crap. regardless of whatever reasons were given, or how well the idea "fit the movie" A monkey devastator and ravage that transforms into a ball, are just not cool. What parent is going to buy a crazy robot monkey, or strange HR Gieger inspired dog, when right next to that is a really cool dumptruck, or audi, or ice cream truck at a fifth of the price. These three are just unfortunate by products of the difficulty of transposing some of the movie designs to toys.
I dunno... a lot of other movie toys sell quite well even with movie aesthetics. Only a select number of toys are shelf warming; it's not as if the entire movie line is shelfwarming like say, Transformers Animorphs.


I think repaints of certain figures is a good idea, especially since for HasTak, it's making the most of a mold. they could quickly get to the piont on repaints, where it's OK if stuff goes for a relly low price as they paid for design and production on the first paint scheme and every cent is pure profit. I do agree though that certain figures would sell better, if just re-released, ie Jazz and tracks, while others like all the iterations of ravage from rotf, could have been totally skipped.
The idea of repaints itself isn't necessarily bad... it's just these "pointless" repaints which don't hold much appeal to the market that shelf warms (e.g. Ravages).


Don't forget, products don't have to move the day after they are shelved. We see things we are desperate for moving from shelves, and we grab stuff as soon as we see it, but parents are only going to buy for birthdays and Christmas. which means apart from christmas and mid year sales, there is a general lull on shelves through the rest of the year.
Yeah, for carded toys I think 1 year is a reasonable shelf life, whereas box toys maybe 2 years. Any much longer than that then they're pretty much shelf-warmers.

Machine Wars, Transformers Animorphs, Supreme Cheetor etc. -- these toys all lingered on shelves for years.


I think it'd be interesting to find out what kids realy do think about the TFs on the shelf. Anyone have a nephew or something they could take shopping one week so they could see how an average 8 to 10 y/o would react?
Saintly has 2 sons (Legends Saintly and Mini-Con Saintly) whom he collects and plays Transformers with. :) Last time I saw them Legends Saintly was walking around playing with Voyager Class ROTF Optimus Prime quite happily. No need for fancy electronic gimmicks.

Just yesterday a 10 year old boy had a great time playing with my DOTM Sideswipe too (and helped me to discover a potential flaw with his mechtech gimmick which us overtly careful adult collectors may not have noticed). ;)

[LordCyrusOmega]

I understand why there is more effort put into the more marketable characters but is this really needed?
My son just turned 10 and when it comes to transformers he just wants the ones that look cool or do cool stuff. He doesn't go hunting for Bumblebee, he much prefers characters like Jazz and Sideswipe (movieverse)
And when i was younger i really wanted Pretenders Skullgrin and Stranglehold even though these never features in western cartoons. I just thought they lookd cool.
Children want toys, not 50 different versions of Bumblebee

[Robzy]

The second that a new Transformer toy is announced or leaked, Hasbro have countless pages of Transfans writing on Seibertron, TFW2005, here, etc. saying whether they will buy a toy or whether it looks like crap. Merely reading those should be a good start for Hasbro to work out a sensible balance for case assortments.


common sense dictates that if 80% of people posting about a leaked toy say that it looks like utter poo then it is idiotic to put that toy more than one-to-a-case.

Perhaps, though, it's not just a decision based purely on what's hot and what's not. Take, for example, some of the figures that Mattel (esp Mattycollector) release. Some of them have to be released because there's no new money in the tooling budget (don't get me started). Similarly, others have to be released because they paid a lot of $$$ to get the toy tooled/sculpted in the first place, so they need to recoup. Maybe this is the reason we see crappy Hasbro figs released in high volumes? Of course, maybe I'm wrong. But it seems feasible that most of the decisions Hasbro make are based on the bottom line. Maybe it's just a case of Hasbro seeing that 'Movie Bumblebee' sold really well 2 years ago, so let's flood the market with more of the same and hope lightning strikes 58 times (I think Hollywood has this same business model).

So, yeah, while they may read the forums and see that a figure sucks in people's opinions, by then it may well be too late to stop the production process because of the dollars already spent (kinda like Alien³ :p).


Then they would go "Oh the fans aren't that excited about the 7th ROTF Bumblebee repaint... Maybe we shouldn't flood the shelves with these... Maybe we should replace those figures in the cases with more of the Jazz and Tracks figures so the fans aren't forced to buy them elsewhere."


The whole point of this thread is that Hasbro doesn't have a clue.
I think you're both right in this case! Hasbro Australia in particular, don't have a clue. If anyone doubts the validity of this statement - go find someone who collects Star Wars figures! I know many (and I'm a casual one myself). The 'Jazz/Tracks' debacle happened around the same time that the 'Vintage ROTJ Star Wars figures' debacle did (seriously, check out what people at Mousedroid said about Hasbro at the time). Hasbro put it all down to quote/unquote "human error".

IMO, shelf warming is a result of a seller (retailer or production co) not knowing what their consumers want (product per price). Purely and simply, this is the reason! Plus... Supply should never exceed demand.

Excellent thread btw :)

[Mechbiter]

And when i was younger i really wanted Pretenders Skullgrin and Stranglehold even though these never features in western cartoons. I just thought they lookd cool.

Heh, when I was a kid I wanted any and every 'bad guy' I could get my hands on. Didn't matter what series it was from, as long at it was evil. :cool:

Because everyone knows... good is dumb. :D

[Hursticon]

Heh, when I was a kid I wanted any and every 'bad guy' I could get my hands on. Didn't matter what series it was from, as long at it was evil. :cool:

Because everyone knows... good is dumb. :D

The bad guys always looked a million times cooler anyway - I'm with you Mechbiter! :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Because everyone knows... good is dumb. :D
Spaceballs'd!! :D

I agree with LordCyrusOmega -- as a kid I just got toys that I thought were cool. Later on they'd appear in fiction and I'd be like, "Oh cool look, there's that toy I have!" -- but I wouldn't go get a toy just because it appeared in fiction. Heck, my favourite Star Wars toys when I was a wee lad were R5-D4 and the AT-AT Commander (General Veers)! Then whenever I'd watch Star Wars I'd be like, "Hey! There's that dude in grey armour I got! Hey, there's my droi--oh crap, he blew up..." :p

[LordCyrusOmega]

It seems to me that the toys aren't even being that well distributed. New stuff isn't being released in the Illawarra and the only store that i've seen with serious shlefwarming is Uncle Petes. The displays in the other stores are actually getting a lot smaller, as if no-one is stocking Transformers at the moment.
Uncle Petes still have toys dating back to Galaxy Force. It's pretty special. In other stores the Animated voyagers are shelfwarming. I think this was a tactical error on Hasbros part cause if they'd released them when Animated was still running they would have sold themselves. Kids have short memories and a toy they may have loved when a series was on is quickly forgotten once something new began.
Shelfwarming could also be avoided if Hasbro stopped reinventing the line every couple of months.

[Dkaris]

Think of it this way, if you didnt have shelf warmers then there would be nothing making the better figures seem better. I cant see how you can blame retailers and buyers for shelfwarming, Stock comes in case assortments. Blame Hasblo for not sending more of the popular figures and less of the shitty ones.

[GoktimusPrime]

Think of it this way, if you didnt have shelf warmers then there would be nothing making the better figures seem better.
A good toy will sell under its own merit - regardless of whether other toys around it are good or not.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Most of the time the good toys are in such short supply that I don't even see them. So all i see are shelwarmers and overtime I start to create reasons to buy them.
Every time i walk into TRU I nearly buy Recon Ravage. Now I love Soundwave and Co and I love the Chrome Shinies on Recon Ravage but I only buy Screen accurate movies toys and I already have Deluxe and Legends Ravage so can't justify buying him especially for $30. But because of the Toy Drought everytime i see him I nearly buy him.

And i swear those shelfwarmers are being restocked.

[Vector Prime]

And i swear those shelfwarmers are being restocked.

They're not called 'shelfwarmers' for no reason! :D

It means there's an abundance of stock - there's probably cartons of the stuff sitting in the back warming the warehouse shelves too. :p

[LordCyrusOmega]

I just thought shelfwarmers were an abundance of stock that didn't move. IMO if toys are being restocked then their not shelfwarmers, just an invasion.

Though it does make sense now you say it.

[GoktimusPrime]

Shelfwarmers and palettewarmers... I think the umbrella term for it all is "dead stock."

[Vector Prime]

palettewarmers

You've been discussing the French-ness sound of Grappel too long Gok... what the hell is a 'palletewarmer'? :D

[LordCyrusOmega]

Shelfwarmers and palettewarmers... I think the umbrella term for it all is "dead stock."

Then it should be taken out behind the shed and shot, putting us all out of pain of seeing the same things on shelves all the time.

[GoktimusPrime]

You've been discussing the French-ness sound of Grappel too long Gok... what the hell is a 'palletewarmer'? :D
Oops, I meant pallet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet)warmers. ;)

[Vector Prime]

Oops, I meant pallet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet)warmers. ;)

I knew what you meant Gok, just messing with you. Lol :p

[LordCyrusOmega]

I thought you meant pallete warmers. Had no idea what you were trying to say. Like the shelves were savouring them or something.

[GoktimusPrime]

I knew what you meant Gok, just messing with you. Lol :p
Kinky. ;)

I thought you meant pallete warmers. Had no idea what you were trying to say. Like the shelves were savouring them or something.
Hahaha... or perhaps using them to hold paints. :D

[SkyWarp91]

Time to resurrect the thread now that DOTM toys have come out.

Just went to a Target that stocked about 20+ Stealth Force Bumblebees that transformed into the car/battle mode for $50!! Had electronics, but at that price I don't see it selling well.

What DOTM toys do you think will end up as Shelfwarmers?

I reckon considering the huge inflation of the price for Commanders they may become shelfwarmers as well

[Hursticon]

What DOTM toys do you think will end up as Shelfwarmers?

IMO, the lot. :rolleyes:
Seriously, by comparison (And Retrospect) the ROTF figures had it all over this new range - The only thing I reckon this range has over the previous is the playsets. ;)

[5FDP]

IMO, the lot. :rolleyes:
Seriously, by comparison (And Retrospect) the ROTF figures had it all over this new range - The only thing I reckon this range has over the previous is the playsets. ;)

Completely agree with you there Hursti. So far I've only picked up Commander Sentinel Prime and I can't see myself spending any more cash on what I have seen so far. If there is a positive from this, I am going to save money for a change.

[gdmetro]

I think there will always be 1 or 2 rare figs... but as with other movie toys... will be plenty to go around.

The rest will shelfwarm...

I see bajillion dlx bbees....:D

[SkyWarp91]

If all of them shelfwarm the chances of getting later waves.... DAMN IT

[tinyJazz]

If all of them shelfwarm the chances of getting later waves.... DAMN IT

Better get those preorders in! :p

[GoktimusPrime]

I think the engineering of the toys have gotten better in DotM. Also, I think we should wait till after the movie comes out before accurately judging what the shelf warmers will be.

In general, a carded toy can be on shelves for 1 year, and boxed toys on shelves for 2 years -- any much longer than that and they're in shelfwarming territory.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Judging by the amount of stock on the shelves there could be a lot of shelfwarming. Why can't they get in less and restock more reguarly rather then filling an aisle from top to bottom?

[Sky Shadow]

Shelfwarmers? Who's fault is it?

It's your fault SkyWarp91! :p

Seriously though, I actually believe DOTM is the strongest of the three movie lines so far. The toys are far less ugly than those from the previous films, Cyberverse is a strong idea (albeit a not-so-well executed one), and its development of the Human Alliance portion of the franchise is inspired. Any shelfwarming will be the fault of the people who set the prices too high (so high that I've bought four DOTM toys online so far which - even after shipping - were cheaper than RRP.

[GoktimusPrime]

Judging by the amount of stock on the shelves there could be a lot of shelfwarming. Why can't they get in less and restock more reguarly rather then filling an aisle from top to bottom?
I'd say they're preparing for the movie. Once that comes then the toys should start moving faster. But I'm not complaining -- gives me time to acquire them in the meantime now without having to compete with other people afterwards when DotM makes Transformers "flavour of the month". :p


Seriously though, I actually believe DOTM is the strongest of the three movie lines so far. The toys are far less ugly than those from the previous films, Cyberverse is a strong idea (albeit a not-so-well executed one), and its development of the Human Alliance portion of the franchise is inspired. Any shelfwarming will be the fault of the people who set the prices too high (so high that I've bought four DOTM toys online so far which - even after shipping - were cheaper than RRP.
+1. Overall I think the engineering in DotM is better than TF1 and RotF. It feels a lot less rushed and half-bummed than previous movie lines. There are a few lemons like Deluxe Skids, and Deluxe Sideswipe's pretty ordinary... but on the whole I'm finding DotM toys to be pretty awesome. :) However I also agree that the pricing of some of the figures is pretty rich... though the good but pricey figures might start moving when stores put them on sale.

[SkyWarp91]

It's your fault SkyWarp91! :p

**holds up a folded air stewardess' apron over face** DON'T LOOK AT ME!! DON'T LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!

I do agree with DOTM engineering though, more detailed than the first movie, less complicated than the second. Guess third time's the charm.

[valkyrie_76]

**holds up a folded air stewardess' apron over face** DON'T LOOK AT ME!! DON'T LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!

I do agree with DOTM engineering though, more detailed than the first movie, less complicated than the second. Guess third time's the charm.

Then lets hope that the movie is going in the same direction as the toys.

[SkyWarp91]

Then lets hope that the movie is going in the same direction as the toys.

I have a good feeling it'll be. If it somehow is worse than ROTF, I will rip my shirt, grow large and green and have purple shorts...