Computer bargains

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Hey all, I gots me a computer problem and need some advice, so figured I'd check in here.

Long story short, my laptop PC is on it's way to the great scrapheap in the sky both hardware and software wise. It's still functional, but judging from the noises it's making and the way it needs to stop and think about just about everything it does it's only a matter of time before it's gonna die on me. I'm more or less a technophobe and have had the temperamental beast since '07 and it's been through a lot of travel and abuse, so it's done OK, but I'm also off overseas in about two months so figure I should replace it now while I have the time to get to learn my way around a new one and set it up to my liking.
I was also thinking I might go for a Mac this time, if only so it's less likely to fall prey to the myriad viruses etc my PCs always seem to get what with being subjected to an ignorant owner like me. I'll miss the easy gaming buys but otherwise Macs do seem the better option. Since it's a big purchase I'm thinking I might jump on the online overseas ordering trend rather than paying domestic markups.
So, can anyone recommend any good sources and/or bargains for a laptop Mac suitable for a non-computer-minded travelling type? Are there any makes/models/brands I should avoid, or any particular problems associated with said? I'm after something sturdy, portable, and easy-to-use which will be able to function as my music library, play movies, do internet stuff (email, facebook, Ozformers, news sites etc), do basic office stuff (mostly word processing), and which will last someone like me a while. If there's some way of making them compatible with old-school Windows games that's a bonus. Not sure about what the budget will be but likely around $1800-$2500.

Any suggestions/advice are much appreciated.:)

[KillinSpoon]

Are there any makes/models/brands I should avoid...?

Definitely anything Apple related :P
Get yourself a good windows-working computer, then get rid of that Microsoft crap and chuck Linux on it :P

http://www.inspiredinsanity.com.au/images/uploads/t-shirts/tees%20samsousan/tmenproblemsolved2.JPG

[Doubledealer]

Definitely anything Apple related :P

Amen to that, KS. I have to use an i7 Mac Pro every Saturday and it drives me insane, the workflow is just horrible with the Mac OS. 64-bit Windows 7 Pro is my Operating System of choice, and can be had for around $120 shipped on ebay (for the OEM version).

Btw, that's a huuuuuge budget for a new laptop considering you haven't mentioned modern gaming as a necessity. Intel's new Sandy Bridge CPU architecture is meant to be much faster than the i5/7 range so I'd go for one of them. This site should be able to help you find exactly what you need: http://apcmag.com/notebookhunter/index.htm

EDIT: Oh and if you do go down the Windows path again, use Microsoft Security Essentials as your anti-virus. It's free and oh-so-awesome. :)

[Hursticon]

Some great advice already, avoid fruity manufacturers at all costs. ;):)
My own advice? - DO NOT go to any store chain that is in the possession of Gerry Harvey, that is Harvey Norman, Domayne and/or Joyce Mayne.
You'll save a truck load of money and you wont be sold down the gurgler with inferior, out-of-date products and you wont have crap you don't need forced onto you by 'full of crap-know nothing' salesman if you avoid those chains like the plague. ;)

[blackie]

get a macbook, dump winblows

[jaydisc]

I can't think of any worse advice to give a self-proclaimed technophone then they should install Linux.

Even before its star was rising as sharply and high as it is now, Mac is the way to go. And Macs scale all the way from technophones (that's right, no more Microsoft Security Essentials needed and no more reinstalling the OS to troubleshoot your problems) to the true professionals. Go to any software development related conference nowadays, go to Google headquarters (ironically Apple's biggest current competitor) and you'll see a sea of Apple logos on aluminum laptops.

If you really feel the need (although the only reason is games, and that reason is getting dated), you can dual boot it with Windows, or even triple boot it with Linux, which isn't necessary because you can basically compile anything that runs on Linux on your Mac anyway (if it isn't already built-in, e.g. PHP, Apache, RoR)

With your requested list of requirements, all of that stuff is built in, and just works, and works well.

Lastly, there's support. If you have a problem with a Mac, or just need help and you can make an appointment to go to an Apple store (http://www.apple.com/au/retail/) (not a reseller), get free advice, free support, and they even do repairs on the premises. If it's under warranty, and even sometimes when it's not, Apple likes to err on the side of just replacing the item or part. They feel they make up any loss in money as gains in reputation. And if you've ever seen how packed these stores are, I'm sure you'll agree.

As far as pricing and bargains go, don't expect much. There's very little margin on the lower-end Macs. The best you can expect to do on a new model is $100 off at Myer, and that's when that model has been around for a bit. You can also buy an ex-demo from a reseller, or a refurbished model directly from a reseller or even directly from Apple, although I don't personally feel the difference is worth it. Of course, you can always buy a last-gen model (either new, demo or refurb) once newer models are out, and typically get a full warranty with it.

Apple is pretty good about adjusting their pricing based on fluctuations in AUD (certainly better than Hasbro), but they rarely-to-never adjust the pricing of current models. Rather, when new models come out, they adjust the pricing. At the moment, a USD 999 laptop costs AUD 1199. I know that's still not correct, but when you think about shipping, and the convenience with getting one right away, I still think it's worth getting locally. However, even if you don't, the warranties are international. All the power adaptors are universal voltage and have a very cleverly detachable prong tip, easily swappable with any country. Also, you can just use a standard two-prong black cord instead of the prong-tip. Even the power adapters are overly designed.

If you were happy with 13", you could get the bottom of the line MacBook Pro:

http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?mco=MTAyNTQzMjc

Apple doesn't make underpowered machines, and they don't make pieces of crap (eee pc anyone?), so even their bottom of the line is pretty awesome. That's $1399 and would give you everything you need. Buy it at Myer and you can probably save 100, and get Myer One points. You can jump up to a 15" for $2100 (full price). You could probably get $200 off that model.

I'm happy to field any further questions or dispel any old myths, either here or via IM/PM.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Btw, that's a huuuuuge budget for a new laptop considering you haven't mentioned modern gaming as a necessity. Intel's new Sandy Bridge CPU architecture is meant to be much faster than the i5/7 range so I'd go for one of them. This site should be able to help you find exactly what you need: http://apcmag.com/notebookhunter/index.htmSweet. It'll likely be my default-for-everything computer for the next couple of years, so gaming is kind of important, but I'm also more into older games like the Thief series, Baldur's Gate, the occasional play of GTA Vice City (I love shooting up the 80s :D ), and so forth - probably the most recent game I really want to play besides maybe War for Cybertron is the first Assassin's Creed, which my current ****heap is a tad short of running. So gameability is a factor, but less so than keeping it working at my less-than-tender 'puter-wise hands and it definitely doesn't have to be top-of-the-line. It'll be a work, internet, and media computer first, and a games rig second - the big factors are versatility,reliability, how well it'll travel, and if it'll last a fair while.
The current beast is a HP Pavilion dv6000, running Vista Business, a 32-bit OS, 1GB RAM, and 143 GB memory, which I got in a hurry in '07 when the old one died during my final semester at uni - it wasn't a bad deal but it definitely could have been better, and, well, Vista sucks balls.:( Happily this time I have some leeway, but I really don't want it to die on me in Japan so better to just bite the bullet now methinks.
Some great advice already, avoid fruity manufacturers at all costs. ;):)
My own advice? - DO NOT go to any store chain that is in the possession of Gerry Harvey, that is Harvey Norman, Domayne and/or Joyce Mayne.
You'll save a truck load of money and you wont be sold down the gurgler with inferior, out-of-date products and you wont have crap you don't need forced onto you by 'full of crap-know nothing' salesman if you avoid those chains like the plague. ;)For sure, the trouble is I really am hopeless when it comes to computers:o so I want to get advice from people who do know about them without their trying to sell me something.:rolleyes:
Cheers muchly all, the more info I can get from people who know 'puters and aren't trying to sell me a product the better - keep the info coming!:)

[blackoptimus]

You can get a mac and run windows 7 Ultimate on it through bootcamp. I'll PM you how if your interested on how to do it for free ;). You can game and do everything you want like a PC and Also use Mac operating system as well.

[jaydisc]

Further to my post, if you're not looking to run the most cutting-edge games, you can even run Windows as a process INSIDE the Mac, so you don't even need to reboot.

[Hursticon]

Unfortunately I wont be much help on the Apple front Odey, mainly for the fact that I prefer the ability to custom build my own PCs as that way I'm not forced to conform to the 'closed' nature of Dell/HP/Compaq's hardware or Apple's products in general, I also don't see the point of going with Macs purely based on the 'Malware-avoidance' standpoint as that's what Anti-Malware programs are for. :)

I can completely understand why someone who purely wants to USE a computer and doesn't really have a need to understand how/why they do what they do, would like to go for the Apple route, they're 'apparently' easy to use in a general sense but IMO it might be more favourable to stick with what you know. :)
(No harm in trying something new though ;))

I'd consider some of the more reputable Aussie Online retailers first before looking to go overseas as you might find sending it away for repairs, which hopefully wont happen :o, may become costly beyond the warranty period (If one is even offered). ;)

The good thing is you know what you want to use the computer for and what you want it to be able to do so that's the first step done, don't let any salesman tell you what you want - Jay and Blackoptimus seem well versed in the Apple area, so hit them up on the specifics dude as they wont lead you astray. :cool:

Don't listen to the fanboys, I'm definitely a PC fanboy... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkxvIaKsFU) but I wont in anyway let that deter someone from what they want - That would make me a Gerry Harvey employee. ;):D
(That and I don't believe one's personal opinion should get in the way of one's professional opinion :))

I wish you luck dude. :cool:

[Doubledealer]

I won't deny that Mac's have their uses. For live electronic music performance they're great as you get minimal audio lag, access to the fantastic Logic, Mac specific software, plugins etc. and a stable OS. iTunes also runs like an absolute PIG on a PC if you've got a large mp3 music library so if you simply must use iTunes, it's another reason to consider the fruitier option. The screens are also very nice (keep in mind you can get a matte screen, you don't have to get the glossy one you see in all the stores) although nothing the Sony Vaio's can't match.

Do not buy a Mac if you're going to primarily use Windows as the main OS. What's the point? Why did you just spend all that money on a Mac laptop?

At the end of the day though, what it comes down to is this: Do you prefer the Mac Operating System or the Windows Operating System? If you've never used the Mac OS, head into town and have a good long play around with it at one of those Apple Stores. Don't let Vista leave a sour taste in your mouth either, try out Windows 7 and see if this works for you. Once you've realised how much better and, for the most part, cheaper the PC/Windows world is, you can go back to that site I linked you to and buy a kickarse machine. ;)

[jaydisc]

Do not buy a Mac if you're going to primarily use Windows as the main OS. What's the point? Why did you just spend all that money on a Mac laptop?

At the end of the day though, what it comes down to is this: Do you prefer the Mac Operating System or the Windows Operating System? If you've never used the Mac OS, head into town and have a good long play around with it at one of those Apple Stores. Don't let Vista leave a sour taste in your mouth either, try out Windows 7 and see if this works for you.

I agree with all of this.

[KillinSpoon]

I can't think of any worse advice to give a self-proclaimed technophone then they should install Linux.

You need to start somewhere, it's a push in the right direction :P (even if Linux is damn near impossible for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to use...)

I agree with all the rest of your post, mac probably is the way to go.
Seeing as price isn't really an issue it is the direction he should be going in.

[Hursticon]

@Doubledealer: Forgot to mention you also in my previous post :o, what you said was spot on though. ;):cool:
@Jaydisc: +1
@Killingspoon: Agreed that one has to start somewhere, Linux certainly isn't for the faint of heart though. :o:p

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I won't deny that Mac's have their uses. For live electronic music performance they're great as you get minimal audio lag, access to the fantastic Logic, Mac specific software, plugins etc. and a stable OS. iTunes also runs like an absolute PIG on a PC if you've got a large mp3 music library so if you simply must use iTunes, it's another reason to consider the fruitier option. The screens are also very nice (keep in mind you can get a matte screen, you don't have to get the glossy one you see in all the stores) although nothing the Sony Vaio's can't match.

Do not buy a Mac if you're going to primarily use Windows as the main OS. What's the point? Why did you just spend all that money on a Mac laptop?

At the end of the day though, what it comes down to is this: Do you prefer the Mac Operating System or the Windows Operating System? If you've never used the Mac OS, head into town and have a good long play around with it at one of those Apple Stores. Don't let Vista leave a sour taste in your mouth either, try out Windows 7 and see if this works for you. Once you've realised how much better and, for the most part, cheaper the PC/Windows world is, you can go back to that site I linked you to and buy a kickarse machine. ;)That's a really good thought, ta. I haven't really used a Mac OS much, so it's less a matter of preference than familiarity. From what I have seen - a friend or two have them and operate on Linux - it seems more accessible than Windows, at least once you've got it sussed. The only major attraction of Windows for me is the games factor, otherwise it seems like everything else works just fine on either as Jay says.
The eventual plan has been to have a Mac laptop for work/travel purposes, and a home PC for gaming and as a replacement TV etc, but that's a future plan for when I've got cash to burn.

Next question: how's the switching over to HTML 5 likely to impact upon the lastability (for lack of a better word) of a new 'puter? 'Cos if it's just going to become obsolete in the next two years or so I might just get a techie friend of mine to have a look through and/or go to security essentials and leave replacing the hardware for later when it'll really be worth it.

God I feel like such a dinosaur.:o

[jaydisc]

Do you mean will current computers be obsolete when HTML5 comes in? Absolutely not. A lot of stuff in HTML5 is all about getting more out of the web while using less resources. HTML5 will require less computing resources than comparable Flash does now.

Currently in tech, due to the new frontier being mobile (which includes tablets), the push is to do more with less. The race for higher and faster CPUs has basically plateaud. While desktops and laptops are getting more CPU cores, instead of faster ones, new operating systems are being written from the ground up (iOS, WebOS, Android, Windows Phone) to handle less resources.

[Doubledealer]

I agree with all of this.


@Doubledealer: Forgot to mention you also in my previous post :o, what you said was spot on though. ;):cool:
@Jaydisc: +1
@Killingspoon: Agreed that one has to start somewhere, Linux certainly isn't for the faint of heart though. :o:p


That's a really good thought, ta. I haven't really used a Mac OS much, so it's less a matter of preference than familiarity. From what I have seen - a friend or two have them and operate on Linux - it seems more accessible than Windows, at least once you've got it sussed. The only major attraction of Windows for me is the games factor, otherwise it seems like everything else works just fine on either as Jay says.
The eventual plan has been to have a Mac laptop for work/travel purposes, and a home PC for gaming and as a replacement TV etc, but that's a future plan for when I've got cash to burn.

Next question: how's the switching over to HTML 5 likely to impact upon the lastability (for lack of a better word) of a new 'puter? 'Cos if it's just going to become obsolete in the next two years or so I might just get a techie friend of mine to have a look through and/or go to security essentials and leave replacing the hardware for later when it'll really be worth it.

God I feel like such a dinosaur.:o

Thanks lads. :)

Don't forget young Grasshopper, this is going to be a pretty big year for PC gaming too, the biggest in years! The Witcher 2 recently came out and is a must have, then you've later got Diablo 3, Elder Scrolls: Skyrim, Rage, Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare 3, Deus Ex: HR, Duke Nukem Forever...The list goes on! Just food for thought. Dedicated gaming desktop would be pretty sweet too...Getting a big tax return this year? :p

[gamblor916]

Kinda off topic (maybe) but that list of upcoming games is awesome. I have a Mac Pro desktop which should be beefy enough for most games. How would one run PC games reliably on OSX? I know Blizzard are mac friendly, but Deus Ex and Duke Nukem are shaping up to be must buys.

[Doubledealer]

Kinda off topic (maybe) but that list of upcoming games is awesome. I have a Mac Pro desktop which should be beefy enough for most games. How would one run PC games reliably on OSX? I know Blizzard are mac friendly, but Deus Ex and Duke Nukem are shaping up to be must buys.

I believe you'll want to install Windows 7 using Boot Camp. Here's something I dug up from the Apple site: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3986

[jaydisc]

You have a few options, of which the most powerful is as DD says. Although, since this requires a reboot, most Mac users find it tiring and figure out another way.

You can also run Windows virtualized, like Parallels or VMWare Fusion. I'd search for reviews for these specific to games. However, I would expect that Mac native versions of these games (assuming they exist) would outperform virtualization.

Important Disclaimer: I don't play games. So, a couple of questions:

1. I hear Mac folks talk a lot about Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/) in the context of games. What is that and how does it relate?

2. Doesn't XBox and/or Playstation provide the best gaming experience anyway? I thought PC games were pretty passé as a result of these.

[KillinSpoon]

1. I hear Mac folks talk a lot about Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/) in the context of games. What is that and how does it relate?

Do you remember GameSpy? How it used to be a hub where all your installed games were, and they had special GameSpy servers? Well, it is essentially like that, it is an iTunes for games. :P
Friends lists, team parties, servers and a store.

2. Doesn't XBox and/or Playstation provide the best gaming experience anyway? I thought PC games were pretty passé as a result of these.
I llike to think that they do, but each to their own :/

[Doubledealer]

Important Disclaimer: I don't play games. So, a couple of questions:

1. I hear Mac folks talk a lot about Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/) in the context of games. What is that and how does it relate?

As quoted from http://www.valvesoftware.com/:


Valve is the creator of Steam, the pioneering game platform that distributes and manages over 1,500 games directly to a community of more than 30 million players around the world.

The site has its own Mac area too: http://store.steampowered.com/browse/mac/


2. Doesn't XBox and/or Playstation provide the best gaming experience anyway? I thought PC games were pretty passé as a result of these.

The consoles you mentioned provide a different experience, not necessarily better or worse, it just depends on the person. For example, some people prefer to slob on the couch and play on their huge telly which is hooked up to their surround sound system. Others prefer the added immersion and keyboard + mouse controls PC gaming provides.

It's all about the games for me and I've got no brand/platform loyalty whatsoever. I'll simply buy whichever version I think will suit me best eg. Portal 2 on 360 for local split-screen co-op or Bioshock on PC for the controls & atmosphere. They all have their strengths and as a hardcore gamer...Must have them all (well, apart from the Wii :p)

[SkyWarp91]

I got a Windows, but unlike those folks that crap on Windows and bow to Apple, I know how to use a Windows computer. :D

You want a cheap comp? Try out a small computer store that isn't based in your CBD, most of those stores can chuck together a power-box for a bargain and still offer warranty!

[Hursticon]

Important Disclaimer: I don't play games. So, a couple of questions:

1. I hear Mac folks talk a lot about Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/) in the context of games. What is that and how does it relate?


Do you remember GameSpy? How it used to be a hub where all your installed games were, and they had special GameSpy servers? Well, it is essentially like that, it is an iTunes for games. :P
Friends lists, team parties, servers and a store.

That's actually a damn good set of analogies KS, really well put and pretty much sums up exactly what Steam is: A PC Gamer's friend. ;):D


2. Doesn't XBox and/or Playstation provide the best gaming experience anyway? I thought PC games were pretty passé as a result of these.


I like to think that they do, but each to their own :/

</swallows_fanboy_rage> (Does everyone forget what console games are designed and built on?... :rolleyes:)

Gaming on a desired platform really is subjective and as KillingSpoon says, is entirely up to the individual. ;):)

There are arguments for and against gaming on Mobile, PC & Console based systems but they're all pretty much equal and none of them are passée at any rate.
Whilst console gaming may possibly make more money than that of PC and Mobile, that certainly doesn't mean the quality is superior because at the end of the day the past 1.5 generations of consoles have been handed their market share courtesy of PC Gaming. :cool:
(A little hint: The abbreviation is FPS ;))

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Do you mean will current computers be obsolete when HTML5 comes in? Absolutely not. A lot of stuff in HTML5 is all about getting more out of the web while using less resources. HTML5 will require less computing resources than comparable Flash does now.

Currently in tech, due to the new frontier being mobile (which includes tablets), the push is to do more with less. The race for higher and faster CPUs has basically plateaud. While desktops and laptops are getting more CPU cores, instead of faster ones, new operating systems are being written from the ground up (iOS, WebOS, Android, Windows Phone) to handle less resources.Cheers again, you guys are awesome as ever.:D
Thanks lads. :)

Don't forget young Grasshopper, this is going to be a pretty big year for PC gaming too, the biggest in years! The Witcher 2 recently came out and is a must have, then you've later got Diablo 3, Elder Scrolls: Skyrim, Rage, Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare 3, Deus Ex: HR, Duke Nukem Forever...The list goes on! Just food for thought. Dedicated gaming desktop would be pretty sweet too...Getting a big tax return this year? :pMeh, I still haven't got around to playing my way through Morrowind yet, and I'm probably going to be short on free time for the next few years what with work and travel as opposed to fruitless job hunting here in Oz.
So yeah, it's very much a long-term eventual plan, i.e. when a winning Lotto ticket blows my way or somesuch.;) I'm a traveller at heart so it's one of those 'if I can ever afford a house' plans.:rolleyes:

[Lint]

Sweet. It'll likely be my default-for-everything computer for the next couple of years, so gaming is kind of important, but I'm also more into older games like the Thief series, Baldur's Gate, the occasional play of GTA Vice City (I love shooting up the 80s :D ), and so forth - probably the most recent game I really want to play besides maybe War for Cybertron is the first Assassin's Creed, which my current ****heap is a tad short of running. So gameability is a factor, but less so than keeping it working at my less-than-tender 'puter-wise hands and it definitely doesn't have to be top-of-the-line. It'll be a work, internet, and media computer first, and a games rig second - the big factors are versatility,reliability, how well it'll travel, and if it'll last a fair while.


Hehe we have very similar taste in games :D. The first two games I played through after buying my new laptop this year was War for Cybertron and Assassin's Creed.

Any laptop being sold now will probably get you by work/internet/media wise for the next 5 years. Thus gameability is going to define the performance specifications you want. If you're going Windows I would recommend getting the laptop equipped with the highest spec graphics card available, as this will future proof you for at least 2 years of being able to play new games at reasonable performance. Also if you're gonna game, the bigger the screen resolution (not physical size) offered the better. If you're going with an Intel processor, I reckon the new 'sandy bridge' series of i5's is sufficient. Compared to an i5 chip, i7's cost more, run much hotter and only give you a performance edge when doing stuff like video encoding or serious 3D modelling. Some people have questioned why i7's are put in laptops in the first place.

Another thing that hasn't been discussed so far is travel friendliness. I don't know if you're like me and your laptop is your desktop pc OR if you need to travel with it everyday. If you need to travel I would avoid the ASUS brand as their construction is not very robust (personal experience, I own two of them, however I still reckon they are value for money). Even though I hate their guts, HP build a pretty robust laptop and I reckon Toshibas are pretty sturdy too.

Finally, a few items to look out for:
-make sure it includes at least one USB3 port. This will be important as file sizes inevitably grow and you want to store stuff on portable hard drives.
-screen resolution: if you're hooking it up to a TV or monitor, the bigger the res the better. If not, don't waste your time with high resolutions (i.e anything bigger than 720p / 1366x768 which is basic HD not full HD ).
-battery life. If you're very mobile, you'll want a decent one, and the smaller your machine the better.
-weight. Every gram counts if you're walking lots so the lighter the better. I personally dislike carrying my 3kg laptop around.
-bluray or dvd drive. Up to you but can save you about 150 bucks if you ditch bluray.
-connectivity. if you are planning to hook this up to your awesome TV, a HDMI output is mandatory and also check if you have a standard VGA output for monitors. Also check where the headphones, heat vent, power supply, USB ports and disc drives are located. I preferentially like EVERYTHING at the back if possible.

[jaydisc]

I got a Windows, but unlike those folks that crap on Windows and bow to Apple, I know how to use a Windows computer. :D

In my case, i have extensive knowledge and experience with Windows, OS X and UNIX, as I write software that is run on all three. Most of my colleagues who share a similar or greater depth of knowledge simply don't use Windows, regardless of their ability to do so.

There's no doubt that there's a fervent support base around Apple that has no clue about Windows. Similarly, there's a fervent support base around Windows (and every OS, really), that has no clue about its competitors.

But when I go to software conferences, or look at pictures from conferences, or look at what platforms are used by staff of all the major platform-agnostic tech companies (e.g. Google, Twitter, Facebook, 37 Signals), it's Macs.

So, I don't really think knowing how to use Windows does anything to promote its acceptance (unless it's the only think you know). Actually, I think the reverse. :D

[SkyWarp91]

In my case, i have extensive knowledge and experience with Windows, OS X and UNIX, as I write software that is run on all three. Most of my colleagues who share a similar or greater depth of knowledge simply don't use Windows, regardless of their ability to do so.

There's no doubt that there's a fervent support base around Apple that has no clue about Windows. Similarly, there's a fervent support base around Windows (and every OS, really), that has no clue about its competitors.

But when I go to software conferences, or look at pictures from conferences, or look at what platforms are used by staff of all the major platform-agnostic tech companies (e.g. Google, Twitter, Facebook, 37 Signals), it's Macs.

So, I don't really think knowing how to use Windows does anything to promote its acceptance (unless it's the only think you know). Actually, I think the reverse. :D

Yeah I know, I should really say that I just prefer using windows and that's that. I've used Macs before for media work back in high school and I don't mind them. But what I do mind is when Mac-supporters keep telling how better Macs are in my face and that they keep bringing up the topic in other conversations. I don't care if Macs are better, I've grown up using a PC and that's just my preferred platform. Maybe if those zealous Mac Supporters weren't so patronizing maybe then I'd consider a Mac...

[jaydisc]

Maybe if those zealous Mac Supporters weren't so patronizing maybe then I'd consider a Mac...

I agree with this sentiment across so many things. I find that opinions are polar (in the true scientific sense), in that the more intense someone is putting forward an idea, with equally intensity, they repel the opposition.

Applies to politics, computers, even Transformers (e.g. TT vs. Hasbro, or Beast Wars vs. G1). We'd all get along more if we could meet in the middle more often :)

[Hursticon]

MS-DOS? :p:D

[SkyWarp91]

MS-DOS? :p:D

COMMANDER KEEN TIME!!

Or...

CARMAGEDDON!?!?!?

[Hursticon]

COMMANDER KEEN TIME!!

Or...

CARMAGEDDON!?!?!?

Friggin' both man! :D
Don't make me start a list! :p:D

[KillinSpoon]

Commander Keen was my childhood! I remember being dropped over at one of my primary school friend's house in the morning before school. We would sit there and play Commander Keen prior to school! :D

[SkyWarp91]

Yeah Commander Keen is an awesome game. So is carmageddon. In relevance to this thread, you can get both for free as they're both freeware now! What a computer bargain!!

[Hursticon]

Commander Keen was my childhood! I remember being dropped over at one of my primary school friend's house in the morning before school. We would sit there and play Commander Keen prior to school! :D

That is so cool to hear man, I loved the game but for my Father, Brother and I? - we were Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 1 all the way! :cool::cool::cool:
Oh man, you should've seen us when Doom and Doom 2 hit! :p:D


Yeah Commander Keen is an awesome game. So is carmageddon. In relevance to this thread, you can get both for free as they're both freeware now! What a computer bargain!!

Carmageddon was the first driving game I ever liked, so much so we damn got a hold of it's expansion pack! :cool:
You can get them as freeware now which is great, or you could still use the original disks... :D

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Welp, ended up getting a Toshiba Notebook, i5 processor, 4 GB RAM, 2.3 GHz processor, 582 GB hard drive running Windows 7, for $800 - not a bad deal all up and it should hold up for a while. Kinda bigger than I would have liked, but no worries. Installed Security Essentials which has worked OK so far, even with a few fake update malware programs I haven't been quite so stupid as to install (thanks Wikipedia for the heads up on that one)...They've all been while I was searching for a widescreen version of my old Pink Floyd Back Catalogue desktop background, if anyone can provide a safe link that'd be appreciated.
Cheers for all the advice guys.:)

[The_Damned]

COMMANDER KEEN TIME!!

Or...

CARMAGEDDON!?!?!?


Friggin' both man! :D
Don't make me start a list! :p:D

hijack

http://games.on.net/article/12695/Carmageddon_Reincarnation_Confirmed

[1AZRAEL1]

Commander Keen was my childhood! I remember being dropped over at one of my primary school friend's house in the morning before school. We would sit there and play Commander Keen prior to school! :D

Oh man, LOVE Keen. I actually have the set of games on my PC at home. Thank god for DosBox :D

[Hursticon]

hijack

http://games.on.net/article/12695/Carmageddon_Reincarnation_Confirmed

Hell yeah man! - I hope that guy is right too in that they'd better release it through Steam or something! :cool:


Oh man, LOVE Keen. I actually have the set of games on my PC at home. Thank god for DosBox :D

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Webpics/cheetorthumb.png

[SkyWarp91]

Hell yeah man! - I hope that guy is right too in that they'd better release it through Steam or something! :cool:


I love Steam because they keep updating their games to keep them in their best form, but then I hate them as well for the same reason!