Vector Sigma / Transmetal Driver

[Verno]

Ok. So here's an idea I'm going to try and flesh out.

Vector Sigma - Multiversal Super Computer with the ability to imbibe life or a spark into a Transformer.

Key to Vector Sigma - The activation key for Vector Sigma. Also has the ability to use a strange energy to transform matter into lifeless metal. (One would then postulate that Vector Sigma would then bring that lifeless metal to life, if that was the idea behind the duo of pieces)

Transmetal Driver - Datasphere for collection of information. True purpose unknown but also a holder of strange power, shows signs of a conciousness of its own. Reinstilled life into Blackarachnia after her spark was extinguished by Tarantulas's shell program counter-measures.

What if the Transmetal Driver, which I like to think Megatron stole from the Metal Hunter base when he was in command of it in Season 2 (which gives him plenty of time to test and alter it before its appearance in Feral Scream Parts 1 in season 3) was a Vok version of Vector Sigma.

We know the Vok seeded worlds with both energon and life, what if this little device, and others like it, is how they did it?

Instead of turning matter into metal, it takes it one step further and turns metal into Transmetal, the Vok's prefered medium of construction.

Thoughts?

(I don't profess to be a G1 expert, my research into Vector Sigma and its key is whatever I can read online.)

[Hursticon]

One could postulate that the Transmetal Driver could be a derivative of Vector Sigma.

Being that the Vok appear to of achieved ascendance and hence must've existed as a physical race for quite some time before hand, it is entirely possible that the Vok could've had some form of contact with Cybertron during it's 1st Golden Age, or at least it's early years, and having being presented with the unfathomably complex and inspiring Vector Sigma and it's Key.

The Vok and the Cybertronians might've had some truly great relations just for the following to occur, but I imagine that they would've been so taken back by what was before them that it inspired and drove them as a race to achieve a level of intelligence, be it individually or collectively, that would endow them with the ability to construct such an object themselves which creates life... i.e. they believed that whoever created this 'computer' was clearly a God just by demonstration, let alone definition and subsequently set out to achieve an equal standing if not greater.

Now, one might assume that for whatever reason the original Vok race lost contact with the Cybertronians, considering anything could happen when you're dealing with universal time scales, leading them to approach their goals independently and eventually their ascendance of evolution.
All along continuing that immense, multi-generational journey towards the creation of the Transmetal Driver and the ability to seed planets with Energon, as it would seem that they were experimenting with the creation of life but attempting to adapt or manipulate said life with the purpose of achieving a sentient life form that resembled that of an ancient species they'd encountered so many, many eons ago.

This IMO gives reasoning behind why when the Predacons and Maximals are found to be on the planet, the Vok had no records of them. Imagine their surprise to find that these Aliens were the descendants of that ancient race they'd encountered so long ago, but more alarmingly - What that ancient race had eventually evolved towards, what that eventually lead to and how much of a contamination this potentially presented to the 'Experiment'?...
They would have to either eliminate the infection in order to try and preserve what had been started or, regrettably, end the experiment and start over.

My mind runs wild with what could possibly occur if the Transmetal Driver were to be introduced to Vector Sigma and it's Key? - Could this be the reason, cause and effect that lead to the Transtech era?

[Verno]

My mind runs wild with what could possibly occur if the Transmetal Driver were to be introduced to Vector Sigma and it's Key? - Could this be the reason, cause and effect that lead to the Transtech era?

Exactly my thinking.

I subscribe to the idea that the Vok is the evolved form of Simon Furman's Swarm, thus they have had contact with Transformers in the past.

And as the Swarm was born from the buddying reproduction of early Transformers, and full of Transformers DNA if you will, they are brothers, in a sense, to all Transformers.

I see the Vok taking Primus' place as God of the Transformers, and their technological advancements replace the old technology of Cybertron, reformatting the entire planet and all those on it into new TransTech forms.

[Hursticon]

Exactly my thinking.

I subscribe to the idea that the Vok is the evolved form of Simon Furman's Swarm, thus they have had contact with Transformers in the past.

Hmm, I can't say that I'm familiar with The Swarm apart from hearing/reading it's name being mentioned... I'll have to head over to the wiki. :o


And as the Swarm was born from the buddying reproduction of early Transformers, and full of Transformers DNA if you will, they are brothers, in a sense, to all Transformers.

Ah, so you're suggesting that as the swarm was born of the reproduction/re-releasing of early Cybertronians (Pre or Post the development of the ability to Transformation?), subsequently they would share common DNA (Or the Cybertronian equivalent) therefore making them part of the same genetic tree?... I can see that.

Like many of the various Homo species throughout our own evolution, The Swarm mutated and adapted along a different path eventually taking the new moniker of Vok - I dig, I dig...


I see the Vok taking Primus' place as God of the Transformers

Or Gods? (I don't like the idea of any one being holding all the power ;)), but what would cause the Cybertronians to abandon their extraordinarily long held devotion to Primus?...

Does Primus actually exist? - Did he create Vector Sigma or is Vector Sigma and it's key 2 facets of Primus?

Perhaps Primus is an instilled idea within the psyche of each Cybertronian at creation, by Vector Sigma, in order to keep some semblance of balance and control amongst the populace that, like all religions, splinters into separate interpretations that eventually leads to the opposing factions and the discovery of an equally omnipotent being named Unicron?

Surely it would have to be a phenomenal realisation of some sort that would cause an entire race to abandon a belief/devotion to a 'God-like' entity and how would that entity react?
(Ooh... Maximals & and Predacons re-enact the Pax-Cybertronia and unite to destroy both Primus and Unicron both in reality and across the Multi-verse?)

We also need to consider the events of the end of Beast Wars and whether or not BWII & Neo happen before, during or after?

[Verno]

Ok, take a deep breath, and get ready to submerge yourself into the Vernon Transformers Universe.

The creation of the Swarm, although appearing to be an accidental by-product of the Buddying, was full of intent and of the will of Primus. He created the species not bound to physical form and free to leave Cybertron and explore and grow.

For what purpose?

To evolve to a state of intelligence that it will ascend to the same realm of exitance as Primus (and Unicron when he's powerful enough)

And why?

To replace both Primus and Unicron as the Transformers' gods.

When the Vok entered Tarantulas's body after emerging from Tigerhawk's body, his extraction machine turned on him and killed Taranrtulas. The Vok at that time were in touch with Tarantulas's body and spark, and thus as Tarantulas's spark re-entered the Matrix, the Vok were carried along with it, and met their creator, Primus.

Unicron has been rebuilt and is now strong (after eating the debris from the exploded Hub [after the Liege Maximo's failed ascention]) and is on his way to Cybertron. With his new strength, he has re-emerged on the corporeal plane and is again taunting his brother, Primus.

So the Vok are now witnessing the battle of minds of Primus and Unicron, and ultimately must choose to take up the mantle of Primus' heir, after Unicron kills Primus, and must then battle Unicron or let all life be extinguished for good.

Ultimately he takes up arms, defeats Unicron and his essence takes Primus' place and a new energy brings Cybertron back to life, TransTech energy.

Thats a rough plan of part of the story I'm hoping to write one of these days. There are a lot more parts to it.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ah, so you're suggesting that as the swarm was born of the reproduction/re-releasing of early Cybertronians (Pre or Post the development of the ability to Transformation?), subsequently they would share common DNA (Or the Cybertronian equivalent) therefore making them part of the same genetic tree?... I can see that.
The Swarm was an unintended by-product of Transformer mitotic reproduction when it was abused by the Cybertronian Empire (under the leadership of the Decepticon Liege Maximo). So you are indeed correct - the Swarm (and therefore the Vok) share a common "genetic" ancestry with the Transformers. The Swarm hungered for the light of Primus from which it was divorced... and it satiated this hunger by devouring life - and was specifically drawn to Cybertronian life (since all TF Sparks are derived from Primus' own life essence) - in an attempt to complete itself. In the end of G2, Optimus Prime allowed the Swarm to devour him, and in doing so, devouring the Matrix inside him. The Matrix of course is forged from Primus' life essence, and when the Swarm devoured the Matrix, it was finally 'completed' and evolved to become a new life form (which would later become the Vok).



Or Gods? (I don't like the idea of any one being holding all the power ;)), but what would cause the Cybertronians to abandon their extraordinarily long held devotion to Primus?...
Probably the same way most knowledge is lost... original keepers of the knowledge die and information is either poorly recorded or the records are lost. The most comprehensive record of Cybertronian knowledge would have been the Underbase - which was housed in the Temple of Knowledge and closely guarded by the Disciples of Boltax who always met visitors with their friendly greeting of, "Pain and suffering will be yours if you stay." Charming.

Thanks to the actions of Optimus Prime and Megatron (accompanied by the Triggerbots and Triggercons respectively), the Temple (which turned out to be Boltax himself) was destroyed and the Underbase cube was lost to the far reaches of space (sound familiar?;)). Millions of years later the Underbase approached Earth and was absorbed by Starscream -- who became uber powerful, but also went nutso and eventually was destroyed... kinda (the Underbase had also rendered Starscream immortal, so he became undead... as ya do).
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/383px-ZombieScream1.jpg "Cerebral circuuiiits!"
But some vestiges of Primus' existence still prevailed even after knowledge was lost. The Autobot insignia is based on Primus' image - and is thus possibly a religious icon. Some also had knowledge of the Last Autobot, whose legend even prevailed in Decepticon culture (the core principles of the Decepticon martial art Metallikato is based on this).


Does Primus actually exist? -
Of course He exists! To question His existence is heresy!!


Did he create Vector Sigma or is Vector Sigma and it's key 2 facets of Primus?
The Transformers: Ultimate Guide book describes Vector Sigma as the internal computer of Primus which he used to collect and analyse data from across the universe (multiverse?). During the Beast Wars Vector Sigma declared itself the "God of Transformers" and was able to telepathically commune with Big Convoy from anywhere in the galaxy. And when Unicron attacked Cybertron, he explicitly attacked Vector Sigma, possessing it and through Vector Sigma, began transforming Cybertron itself into his new body (though Unicron was ultimately defeated by the combined efforts of Big Convoy & his Maximals, Lio Convoy and Magmatron (thus once again fulfilling the will of Primus - i.e. Transformers uniting against Unicron).


Perhaps Primus is an instilled idea within the psyche of each Cybertronian at creation, by Vector Sigma, in order to keep some semblance of balance and control amongst the populace that, like all religions, splinters into separate interpretations that eventually leads to the opposing factions and the discovery of an equally omnipotent being named Unicron?
Erm... there's no evidence to support this. All knowledge of Primus was completely lost until it was rediscovered by Bumblebee, Jazz, Grimlock, Red Hot, Seawatch, Fixit and Stakeout by accident (or fate?). Before then the Transformers had absolutely no knowledge of this -- they were too embroiled with their own civil war. And even when this knowledge came to light, it was extremely difficult for the Autobots and Decepticons to put their differences aside and work toward the common purpose of fighting Unicron.

Initially Prime didn't even try forging an alliance. Instead he just sent Autobot Crusaders out on the Matrix Quest to find his old body and retrieve the Matrix. The Decepticons worked separately to also find it because Thunderwing wanted its power for himself. It was only after the Matrix was lost that Optimus Prime, in an act of desperation, surrendered himself and the Autobots to Scorponok and his Decepticons in an act of good faith to foster an alliance. And even then, the Decepticons weren't that interested -- well, Scorponok was, but he knew most of the other 'Cons weren't, and his leadership was already hanging by a thread and he didn't want to make a massively unpopular decision like siding with the Autobots that might cause the Decepticons to overthrow him. The alliance was only really formed because of Galvatron (and he only did it because he wanted payback against Unicron) -- it was Galvatron who abducted Emirate Xaaron and elicited him to pray to Primus to bring all the Transformers back to Cybertron. And there assembled they were meant to fight against Unicron... but when Unicron appeared, they all just freaked out and started fleeing, and it was Galvatron again who united them by making the first strike against Unicron.

So... ironically, if it weren't for Galvatron, Cybertron, Primus and all the Transformers would've been totally screwed! :)


We also need to consider the events of the end of Beast Wars and whether or not BWII & Neo happen before, during or after?
Beast Wars Second and Beast Wars Neo both occur long after G1/G2 -- approx. 300 years after the end of the Great Autobot-Decepticon War (signing of the Pax Cybertronia blah blah blah). Shortly after the events of Beast Wars Neo would have been Beast Machines. The fact that Unicron destroyed the entire Maximal armada and ruling government would help to explain how Megatron and his Vehicons were able to so easily conquer the planet in its weakened post-Unicron state.

[Hursticon]

Well, I'm liking that skeleton dude as it has some strong foundations for building upon.
I'm currently reading up on the swarm and budding now, as well as Transformers reproduction in general and it would seem (Like most of the franchise :p) the explanation is damn splintered.

I like the idea of the Vok piggy backing Tarantulas' Spark back to the Matrix and I've got a theory on how to mate most of the commonly held explanations of reproduction together...
Give me a little while and I'll try and show you what I mean as I think it would tie in well with your proposal of the Vok meeting Primus on the corporeal plane. :p

[Verno]

Give me a little while and I'll try and show you what I mean as I think it would tie in well with your proposal of the Vok meeting Primus on the corporeal plane. :p

I'd be keen to hear it mate!

Thanks for the info Gok. Could you give me a rundown on who we would assume to be leading the Autobots and Decepticons after the events in The Alignment? I'm assuming Ultra Magnus (as Prime is in stasis) and Soundwave. Everyone else seems to be dead.

[GoktimusPrime]

I haven't read the Alignment, but here's what I know about what was happening at the end of the Autobot-Decepticon War:
+ Hot Rod, having recently renamed himself "Rodimus", was Autobot leader - and led the Autobots to their final victory, signing of the Pax Cybertronia, enactment of what would become the Maximal Upgrade (improved Micromasters?)
+ The Wreckers were somehow instrumental in the Autobot's final victory - exactly how I don't know. And Springer was their leader and Rodimus' confidant.
+ Daniel and Wheelie die in battle, making Arcee a sad panda (but making Transformer fans most happy! :D :D)

No idea who was leading the Decepticons... uhmm, let's say Calcar? :p

[Verno]

You've not read it? I'm flabber-gasted! Its not canon, I know, but I was sure you'd be all over it.

In what medium is all this stuff with Rodimus and the Wreckers and such communicated? Comics?

[Hursticon]

Hmm...
This might take longer than I thought and it's sounding more like a fanfiction than that of a detailing... does it matter how the theory is presented Verno? - Also, you'll probably have a heart attack Goki when you see the lose ends and holes in my knowledge but I'm hoping that, baring in mind that this is hypothetical and creative, you'll help in tying up some loose ends. :o

[Verno]

Just notes and random thoughts are fine mate, thats all I seem to produce when the mood strikes me and all manner of thoughts begin to flow out.

All my thoughts are pure fan-fiction, but I try to base all my conclusions on certified, canonilogical fact. I've been drawing a little on the Alignment stuff, which I realise isn't canon, but it was written by Furman as a means to tie up the Marvel G2 comic or something, so it's as good as official, or just a good place to steal ideas.

[GoktimusPrime]

You've not read it? I'm flabber-gasted! Its not canon, I know, but I was sure you'd be all over it.
Yeah well, I didn't go to Transforce and I don't know anyone who did... feel free to buy me a copy. :)


In what medium is all this stuff with Rodimus and the Wreckers and such communicated? Comics?
The BotCon Wreckers comics.

[Verno]

Yeah well, I didn't go to Transforce and I don't know anyone who did... feel free to buy me a copy. :)

Why buy it when you can read it for free?! (http://www.transforce.org.uk/alignment.pdf)

BotCon? Since when has that stuff been canon?! :p

[Hursticon]

Just notes and random thoughts are fine mate, thats all I seem to produce when the mood strikes me and all manner of thoughts begin to flow out.

That's what I initially set out to do, but then my mind starts wanting to wrap narrative around those thoughts and then boom! - It's midday the next day. :p


All my thoughts are pure fan-fiction, but I try to base all my conclusions on certified, canonilogical fact.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do, but as I'm not 100% privy to all fictions, continuities and facets thereof, I feel that there may be certain things that might need citation in order to mate it all correctly and 'creatively' correct that which conflicts. :o


I've been drawing a little on the Alignment stuff, which I realise isn't canon, but it was written by Furman as a means to tie up the Marvel G2 comic or something, so it's as good as official, or just a good place to steal ideas.

I tend to think what ever Simon Furman writes/says is canon as he is basically the original high prophet anyway, so drawing upon his utterings works for me. :)


I'll try and condense what I've got into point form, it'll be a hell long list but hopefully we can expand upon them later. ;)

[Verno]

That's what I initially set out to do, but then my mind starts wanting to wrap narrative around those thoughts and then boom! - It's midday the next day. :p

I'll try and condense what I've got into point form, it'll be a hell long list but hopefully we can expand upon them later. ;)

I know that feeling. Carried away...

I've tried to bullet-point my timeline of events (starting with the Tripredacus Council [who are from the Cybertronian Empire {under the Liege Maximo}] and their encounter with Unicron, but I fail every time.

[Hursticon]

Okay, been at this for a couple of hours now...
Bearing in mind we're talking hypotheticals of mating inconsistencies of fact with that of proposed ideas to create a sensible continuity that involves Vector Sigma + Key and the Transmetal Driver...
(Involving the G1, Beast and Transtech eras)

Here are my thoughts so far on the 'Cybertronian Evolution of Reproduction' that is designed to create an effective Timeline and Meshing of continuities which will hopefully solve more issues than it creates and, as with science in general, is open to suggestions, amendments and corrections:

• 13 Primes endowed with ability to reproduce, method is Budding
• Budding:
- Mitotic method
- 1 offspring per bot (Primus’ Will).
- Pre-determined population limit (Primus’ Will).
- Pop limit communicated to each prime subconsciously.
- Pop limit countdown communicated on genetic level through CNA.
- Procreation past Pop limit results in by product (The Swarm).
- Resulting offspring referred to as 1st Cybertronians.
- CNA derived from parent Primes and handed down to each child Cybertronian.
- CNA housed in Laser Core (Proto-Spark).
- 4 Primes (Initially) required, surrounding 5th in circle.
- Chant is enacted, causing massive electro-magnetic, radioactive discharge.
- Bubbles and lesions of liquid metal form on central (5th) robot's chest.
- Process grows more intense, final massive discharge, large mass of liquid metal bursts free from chest, slowly forms metallic-humanoid blank figure (Protoform-esque).
- Offspring solidifies into full Cybertronian.
- Newly born Cybertronian exists only within singular universe (The 1st Universe).
- Cybertronians able to perform Budding until pop limit.
• Budding Population Limit met.
• Primus enters Dormant state (Cybertron).
• 13 Primes become Cybertronian council.
• Cybertronian Council and select Cybertronians granted access to Vector Sigma.
• Vector Sigma:
- Resides in Spherical Chamber deep within Primus (Cybertron).
- Pre-dates 13 Primes.
- Unfathomably powerful, Multiversal Super Computer.
- Core of Computer is ‘All-Spark’.
- Key required activation (Key to Vector Sigma).
• Select Cybertronians overseen by Council, use Vector Sigma to develop Transformation ability upgrade.
• Select Cybertronians overseen by Council, use Vector Sigma to develop Protoforms, ‘True’ Spark and Infusion Reproduction.
• Protoforms:
- Consists of free-flowing, metallic matter layer over basic robotic systems and frame.
- Used as mode for intergalactic transport.
- Transported/Stored in Stasis Lock - Smooth Robotic Humanoid.
- Transported/Stored outside Stasis Lock – Roiling mass of metallic matter surrounding basic robotic system and frame.
- Infused Spark and Alt-mode information required for life.
- Additional use of near instant repair of Transforming Cybertronian.
• Spark:
- Part Donor CNA, part Essence of Primus
- Essence of Primus sourced from ‘All-spark’ Core
- Created by the combination of Vector Sigma, it’s core and key and the Matrix (Matrix of Leadership and Creation Matrix now one and the same).
- Detrimentally reactive to solidified Energon Crystals.
• Infusion:
- Matrix, Vector Sigma (It’s core and key), Spark, Protoform and Alt-mode information required to create new Transforming Cybertronian (True Transformer).
- Spark is generated, placed within Protoform Spark Chamber, resulting Transforming Cybertronian life takes form and shapes Protoform based on combination of Spark and Alt-mode information.
• The Cybertronian known as Orion Pax has Laser Core near extinguished.
• Prime: A3 (Alpha Trion), hearing whispering echoes of Primus, employs an Infusion Reformatting of Orion Pax.
• Orion Pax Reformation by Infusion:
- Prime: A3 places near extinguished Laser Core of Orion Pax, along with own donated CNA into Vector Sigma.
- Protoform and Alt-mode Information then introduced.
- Prime: A3: “Now, with a little hope and a lot of luck…”
- Orion Pax successfully Infusion Reformatted with resulting Spark as Transforming Cybertronian.
- Resulting Transforming Cybertronian is first, 2nd Generation Prime and 14th Prime overall – Dubbed Optimus Prime by Prime: A3.
• 1st Civil War Breaks Out
• Upgraded Cybertronians and Transforming Cybertronians split into 2 factions – The Autobots and Decepticons (Moniker of Cybertronian is dropped in favour of Transformer and/or Allegiance).
• Decepticon Chief-Scientist Shockwave begins Spark Experimentation Program.
• Utilising the research of Shockwave, Decepticon Scientist Jhiaxus begins own Transformer CNA manipulation.
• Jhiaxus genetically modifies Transformer CNA, based on Organic Reproduction studies, resulting in 1st Female Cybertronian being.
• Female Cybertronian Being dubbed: Arcee.
• Jhiaxus’ research abruptly ends, unforseen Meiotic results eventuate…

[Verno]

What happens next? What happens next? I want more!

Do the Maximals take up Jhiaxus' research, or rediscover it?

They're shown to not be adverse to some weird experiments of their own. They meddle with Rampage's spark trying to replicate Starscream's inextinguishable one. And then there is Transmutate, who I've always seen as another experiment gone wrong.

I've always wanted to know how Rhinox knew to go offline and could hack into the Matrix/All Spark to get Primal's spark back. Transwarp technology has obviously brought about an ability to do so.

Some great postulating there Hursty. Something i read yesterday about the Cybertronian Empire, under the Liege Maximo, was that with each new TF created through buddying, their contact with Primus was lessened and the 'bot was more sullen and unenlightened or something. That could be explained by your going past the population limit.

[GoktimusPrime]

Primus created 13 Transformers... not sure if all of them were "Primes" (don't know if you'd consider the Liege Maximo and Maccadam to be Primes). In fact, in G1 continuity, being a "Prime" was merely a titled given to Autobot leaders. It wasn't a "genetic dynasty" like in the movie continuity. And even then, according to the movie continuity there were only 7 Primes - so presumably the other 6 original Transformers weren't Primes... which would make sense, because if all the original Transformers were Primes, then wouldn't it mean that all the current Transformers would be their descendants (and not just Sentinel and Optimus)? ;) e.g. Megatron, Bumblebee, Ironhide et al. are most likely descendants of those other 6, since none of them bear the "mark of Prime." But again, all this stuff about the dynasty of the Primes comes from the movie universe - AFAIK this concept isn't a multiversal singularity, so doesn't necessarily apply to other continuities.

[Hursticon]

@Verno: More to come dude :D, but please throw up some more tidbits as you've done in your last post as it is great food for though. ;):cool:

@Goki:Cheers for the info Goki, that sort of thing helps and I will make some amendments later tonight as what you've said about 7 Primes and 6 Originals is news to me :rolleyes::p, but makes complete sense on both a Dynastical and Genetical standpoint. ;):cool:
(Remember though, we're trying to create a series of 'Grafts' of Non-Offical Ret-con essentially ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

The thing about 7 Primes and 6 Non-Prime Original Transformers isn't explicitly mentioned in movie continuity, but it's a logical conclusion considering that:
+ Revenge of the Fallen continuity states that in the beginning, the AllSpark created 7 Primes. No other Transformers are mentioned as being created at the time (although it doesn't explicitly disclude them either).
+ The Original 13 Transformers are a multiversal singularity - thus the original 13 Transformers must exist in every Transformers universe.
+ Movie continuity has established that being a Prime is some kind of genetic heritage - i.e. only Transformers who are descendant from one of the original 7 Primes is a Prime; and bear the mark of the Prime somewhere on their body. Sentinel and Optimus are both from the lineage of the Primes.
+ Clearly not all Transformers are descendant of the Primes. In ROTF Optimus was supposedly the last of the Primes (after Sentinel Prime was presumed KIA) -- The Fallen claimed that only another Prime could threaten him and once Optimus was killed, he happily came to Earth, even though there were other Autobots present there. Clearly he didn't feel threatened by the other Autobots, presumably because they're not descendants of the Primes -- and presumably neither are any of the Decepticons, for if they were, The Fallen would probably have them killed too to eliminate them as potential threats to him.
+ In the movieverse comics, Megatron criticises the nepotism of having only Primes being their leaders. He sees himself as a more worthy successor to Sentinel Prime, even though he himself is not of the Prime dynasty.

Perhaps in your fanfic you could establish that each Prime is only able to reproduce once, whereas non-Prime Transformers have a higher "fertility rate"... because this would explain how in the beginning there were 7 Primes to 6 non-Primes, but then later on the number of Primes within the Cybertronian population became near extinct. If Primus intended for the Primes to be leaders, then it would stand to reason that he would limit their reproductive abilities in order to maintain balance amongst the Cybertronians.

But really, this is all looking at it purely from the movie-continuity POV. In all other Transformer universes being a Prime was never a genetic thing -- so if you're writing your thing to graft into the G1, G2 and BW continuity-family, I see no reason to even consider including any elements from the movie universe into it anyway.

13 Original Transformers = multiversal singularity, so you have to include it.
7 Original Primes = only in the movie universe. So feel free to ignore it if you want. :)

[Hursticon]

Excellent, all great food for thought dude and again, much appreciated. ;):)
I like certain elements of the Movieverse, but agree that not all of the original 13 should be Primes.
If all 13 were Primes there would be no room for 'dilution' of the Gene pool, as it were, subsequently no room for non-Prime Cybertronians so this is an excellent fix. :cool:

My intention was indeed to limit everyone of the original Cybertronians to a single offspring via Budding, sort of a 1 child policy if you will, as a method of population control (Primus' Will).

It seems to me that whilst there would be descendants of the Primes that would slowly be watered down, it would be these Cybertronians 'of Noble descent' that would fill the 'Ranking or Controlling Casts' with the descendants of the non-Prime originals filling all the other roles - The workers. ;)
Non-Prime descendants could enter nobility by being an offsping of Prime and Non-Prime parents of the Budding Process but also take into account Optimus-

Let's say that as Orion Pax, he was a watered down descendant of a Prime but after his Infusion Reformatting with A3's CNA, this brought him WAY back towards being a full-blown Prime and could help to explain why he becomes such the revered leader he does?

This could also work towards Megatron's disdain for the hereditary rule of the Primes because whilst he believes that just because your of Prime descent, it doesn't mean you'll be an effective leader but deep-deep down he questions this because Optimus is displaying that he is a living example of the opposite. ;)

See? - All great reasons as to why your 7 Primes, 6 Originals suggestion works so well. ;):cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

Non-Prime descendants could enter nobility by being an offsping of Prime and Non-Prime parents of the Budding Process
The Budding Process is strictly asexual - so all the genetic data contained in the offspring comes from a single parent. So if there is a Prime descendancy, then a descendant of a Prime would be a "pureblood" Prime. There's no "halfbloods" when dealing with an asexually reproductive species. Or if there were, it wouldn't be because of budding.


This could also work towards Megatron's disdain for the hereditary rule of the Primes because whilst he believes that just because your of Prime descent, it doesn't mean you'll be an effective leader but deep-deep down he questions this because Optimus is displaying that he is a living example of the opposite. ;)

Yeah, that's pretty much what Megatron says in the movie-verse comics (current DotM prequel stuff). :)

"You don't vote for kings!"
Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[Hursticon]

You know what?, I can't believe I over-looker that fact about A-Sexual reproduction... More pondering required me thinks. :o

Ah, good old Python... :D
I've not read any of the Movie-verse material so to hear that works out nicely, cheers dude. :)

[Verno]

An exploration ship from the Cybertronain Empire, under orders from the Liege Maximo to scout for new world to technoform into part of the Hub, is damaged by a meteor stike and left listing in space. It is rescued by an alien on a strange, mechanical world.

The Predacons, under Razorclaw, splinter from the Decepticon Army completely and go their own way in the battle for Energon and Cybertron.
The Autobots respond by creating their own subgroup to tackle this new enemy, the Maximals.

The events in Simon Furman's Alignment occur (The Autobots and Decepticons band together to tackle the Liege Maximo and his Cybertronian Empire at The Hub and are ultimately victorious)

The Decepticons, under Soundwave (as Megatron is now dead) surrender. This doesn't please some Decepticons who leave and join the swelling ranks of the Predacons.

The Predacons gain much power and territory and turn to make a final attack on Cybertron where they have some underground bases already established.

The Cybertronain Empire crew that were rescued by the alien on the strange mechanical world are tortured and reformatted by a conciousness within the planet. Only 4 of them are still alive. The alien is being blackmailed into contructing the consiousness a body the size of a planet.

The alien sacrifices himself to save the Cybertronians from Unicron (the consiousness) and they escape in a ship to return to the Hub.

They find the Hub destroyed and track the energy signatures back to where they came from.

Unicron tracks the signature of the ship back to the Hub, where it begins to devour all the debris of The Hub, and power up himself fully.

The 4 Cybertronians find Cybertron and join the Predacon ranks, and begin to work their way up the corporate ladder. Their names: Sea Clamp, Ram Horn and Cicadacon and their offsider, Taranachus.

The Autobot/Maximal Scientist Csirac and his team (including a young Rhinox) develop Transwarp technology in its earliest form.

The Tripredacus Brotherhood prove themselves worthy in battle and orchestrate the death of Razorclaw to assume command of the Predacons.

A Transwarp ship is tested in Cybertron's orbit to show the Predacons that if they don't surrender they will be wiped from History all together with the use of TransWarp technology.

The ship fails and explodes in orbit, raining debris down upon Cybertron. The Predacons get their hands on some of the debris and turn it over to their head Scientist, Taranachus (Tarantulas) who implores the Tripredacus Council to kidnap the Maximal Scientist and get all the information about TransWarp technology from him.

The Predacons kidnap Csirac, as well as the Aerialbot Leader Silverbolt, whose brethren have been killed earlier, but has been a high ranking member of the Autobot/Maximal leadership.

The intention is to plant in him a Shell Program to turn him into a Predacon and act as a spy for them.

Csirac was developing TransWarp technology as well as new Mini-Bot technology, the early stages of protoform technology.

Csirac's fembot partner was onboard the ship that exploded when testing the TransWarp drive, and the Predacons convince him that the Maximals would have pulled the plug on his project, so the only way to save his partner is to continue his research under their watchful eye and see the project through.

Rhinox implores the Autobot/Maximal leadership to search for Csirac but he is told they have bigger problems.

Magmatron, a Predacon General, is damaged in battle. He is brought back to the Predacon installation and Csirac is made to help him. Csirac informs him that his spark is fine but his body can no longer support the spark.

Csirac, under orders from the Tripredacus Brotherhood, has been developing a new more powerful body for them. Magmatron instructs Csirac to put his spark into the body. Csirac informs him it needs 3 sparks to pilot it, putting his spark in it could extinguish it.

Magmatron threatens him some more and tells him to do it anyway. Csirac does, but the body lies there, motionless. He assumes it has failed and returns to his work.

The Predacon installation comes under Autobot/Maximal attack. Csirac is injured as Magmatron awakens, his spark was powerful enough to survive being pulled into 3 bodies, his is now a mitotic. He joins the battle and the Predacons seem to have the upper hand.

The shell program Taranachus was working on for Silverbolt has failed, and his injured body is dumped in with Csirac as the battle rages above.

Csirac is haunted by the voice of his dead fembot partner.

The voice in Csirac's head instructs him not to save her from the All Spark, but save Silverbolt, and help the Maximals to victory.

He has been working on a machine that he can pilot to the All Spark to find a particular spark and return it to a body.

With the development of another new body for the Tripredacus council, Csirac, in his last efforts of life, pilots the machine and returns 2 sparks.

He installs the sparks, as well as that of Silverbolt, into the new combiner body.

Magnaboss is born, as Ironhide and Prowl return from the All Spark into the new form. They join the battle.

The Autobots/Maximals defeat the Predacons (or did they) and the Predacons, under the Tripredacus Council, sign the Pax Cbertronia.

The Tripredacus Brotherhood, rename themselves the Tripredacus Council, simply surrendered to give themselves time to plot their own plots without the hassle of wasting resourses fighting a futile war. They begin to develop their own TransWarp technology from what they have stolen etc.

Peace.

The upgrade to protoform technology and retiring of the titles Autobot and Decepticon.

Heavy sanctions placed on the Predacons. This outrages the Predacons on the street who are treated as 2nd class citizens, but the Tripredacus Council couldn't care less.

Magmatron seeths and plots his own plots.

300 years pass.

A young genius upstart, who was a Predacon analyst on the development of TransWarp stuff, gathers a crew, steals the Golden Disk and a ship and makes for Earth.

The Beast Wars.

The Vok become aware of the Maximals and Predacons and of Cybertron.

Tarantulas, with the Vok inside him, is killed and his Spark rejoins the All Spark.

The Vok piggy-back back to the All Spark.

The Maximals win the Beast Wars.

They return to Cybertron in the Autobot shuttle.

Unicron approaches Cybertron and unleashes his armada of reanimated Cybertronain Empire warriors on Caybertron before plunging his horns into Cybertrons surface.

The Vok arrive on the astral plane to see Primus and Unicron battling.

Unicron kills Primus.

The Vok take up Primus' helm and defeats Unicron, thus taking both their places as both the Lord of Light and the Lord of Darkness.

The change in power at the top unleashes an energy from deep within Cybertron and reformats the entore world and all those on it.

TransTech.

[GoktimusPrime]

I like how you gave new names for pre-Earth Tarantulas and Rhinox. :)

So points regarding your ideas in relation with official canon:


[LIST]
The Predacons, under Razorclaw, splinter from the Decepticon Army completely and go their own way in the battle for Energon and Cybertron.

The Decepticons, under Soundwave (as Megatron is now dead) surrender. This doesn't please some Decepticons who leave and join the swelling ranks of the Predacons.

The Predacons gain much power and territory and turn to make a final attack on Cybertron where they have some underground bases already established.

The Decepticons were supposedly leaderless at the end of the war, and the Predacons took the initiative to lead the Decepticons into signing the Pax Cybertronia. However, their policy was one of unconditional surrender to the Autobots, with the secret plan of rebuilding their forces to one day usurp the Autobots in the future - this would become the Predacon cause by the time of the Beast Wars.


The Autobots respond by creating their own subgroup to tackle this new enemy, the Maximals.
The "Maximals" was the name of the 'Maximal Upgrade' - the next step from Micromaster technology. In G1 Anglophone continuity, Micromasters were created as a means of conserving fuel by downsizing the Transformers. In Beast Wars it is stated that the BW TFs are smaller and more fuel-efficient than the larger G1 Transformers. This is why in "The Agenda Part 3" when Megatron first enters the Ark and views the G1 Transformers lying in stasis, he calls them "Archaic Energon guzzlers!"

Rodimus became downsized by the end of the Great War, which makes sense because there was a Micromaster Hot Rod toy in G1 (came with Star Convoy) - and in during the time of Beast Machines when Rodimus is leading the new Wreckers, he is the same size as Maximals and Predacons; thus presumably Micromaster sized.

While it's never been explicitly stated that Micromaster technology led to the Maximal Upgrade, when you think about it, it makes sense. The G1 Transformers were already heading toward downsizing themselves to conserve fuel anyway... seems logical that they would legislate it as a standard requirement in post-war Cybertron.


The Cybertronain Empire crew that were rescued by the alien on the strange mechanical world are tortured and reformatted by a conciousness within the planet. Only 4 of them are still alive. The alien is being blackmailed into contructing the consiousness a body the size of a planet.

The alien sacrifices himself to save the Cybertronians from Unicron (the consiousness) and they escape in a ship to return to the Hub.

They find the Hub destroyed and track the energy signatures back to where they came from.

Unicron tracks the signature of the ship back to the Hub, where it begins to devour all the debris of The Hub, and power up himself fully.

The 4 Cybertronians find Cybertron and join the Predacon ranks, and begin to work their way up the corporate ladder. Their names: Sea Clamp, Ram Horn and Cicadacon and their offsider, Taranachus.
Interesting.

Be aware by the time of the Beast Wars, Unicron has been physically destroyed -- presumably since G1. He only exists in spiritual form known as Dark Essence or Angolmois Energy. When Unicron destroys the Maximal Armada, he is still in spirit form, albeit fully powered by his Angolmois Energy (and using BW Galvatron as a vessel) -- then he possesses Vector Sigma and begins reconstructing Cybertron as his new body. All this would be needless if he already had a reconstructed body as you've suggested. So I don't know if you really want to keep the story of him having a new body, otherwise you'll need to find a way to have that body destroyed. But one would assume that if the BW TFs had recently destroyed Unicron, they would be more aware about the nature of Dark Essence and Angolmois Energy than they already were...

Also, other agents of Unicron include the Blentrons, Shokoract, Antagony and Cataclysm.

Also, Tripredacus was never made from Cybertronians. Neither was Tarantulas. That's why Tarantulas was willing to destroy the Ark and kill all the Autobots and Decepticons inside them, wiping out the existence of Maximals and Predacons. When asked about this supposedly suicidal plan, Tarantulas boasted that it would only effect Transformers "descendant from Autobots and Decepticons" and that he and the Tripredacus Council have "different origins" (and thus were immune to being uncreated at the destruction of the Ark).


The Autobot/Maximal Scientist Csirac and his team (including a young Rhinox) develop Transwarp technology in its earliest form.
Early Transwarp technology was already underway during G1. This is stated in G1 Megatron's message encrypted in the Sounds of Earth golden disk from Voyager II. Transwarp technology was still in its infancy during G1 Megatron's time, hence he left a message for future descendants to use it to change destiny once it was perfected to ensure Decepticon victory.

Nothing wrong with having Maximal scientists working on and maybe perfecting Transwarp drive tech, but it would definitely not be in its early stages and more likely approaching its final stages. Maybe it could be like the Star Wars prequels were individual one-man starfighters needed to hook up to a hyperdrive ring to jump because the technology wasn't compact enough to fit inside the fighter -- so maybe they weren't able to make the technology small enough to put inside a ship so they need to hook up to an external Transwarp Drive ... thing. :p Or maybe it could be like in Transformers Animated where they have to have constructed Space Bridges and they can only transwarp between established Bridge points (whereas in Beast Wars they can transwarp into anywhere - like when Depth Charge warped out into a Quantum Wave ;)).


The Tripredacus Brotherhood prove themselves worthy in battle and orchestrate the death of Razorclaw to assume command of the Predacons.
This would go against the "unconditional surrender" of the Predacons -- but I do like the idea of them usurping Razorclaw. ;) Maybe the Tripredacus Generals came in as Decepticons much earlier on - say after the events of Transformers Zone when Dai Atlas killed Predaking (and Razorclaw most likely didn't survive) -- the other Predacons would have been leaderless, and then the three Tripredacus dudes came into to bolster their depleted ranks; replacing their one fallen Predacon with 3 new ones. The Predacons were probably so relieved that they didn't think to question where they came from -- and then later during the Autobot-Decepticon war they could prove themselves worthy, gaining the trust of the Decepticons, and then orchestrate the assassination of Megatron, leaving the Decepticons leaderless and in a vulnerable position to be conquered by the Autobots.

After all, it seems that the Tripredacus Generals' objective isn't really to help the Decepticons or Predacons win, but to keep the Transformers disunified and unable to unite against Unicron's impending attack. Perhaps Ravage could be one Decepticon who trusts them utterly, and you could have the Tripredacus Generals frame an Autobot (or maybe another Decepticon!) as Megatron's assassin. This would ensure Ravage's loyalty to them as the Tripredacus Agent with no knowledge of the true nature of his new masters.


A Transwarp ship is tested in Cybertron's orbit to show the Predacons that if they don't surrender they will be wiped from History all together with the use of TransWarp technology.

The ship fails and explodes in orbit, raining debris down upon Cybertron. The Predacons get their hands on some of the debris and turn it over to their head Scientist, Taranachus (Tarantulas) who implores the Tripredacus Council to kidnap the Maximal Scientist and get all the information about TransWarp technology from him.

The Predacons kidnap Csirac, as well as the Aerialbot Leader Silverbolt, whose brethren have been killed earlier, but has been a high ranking member of the Autobot/Maximal leadership.

The intention is to plant in him a Shell Program to turn him into a Predacon and act as a spy for them.

Csirac was developing TransWarp technology as well as new Mini-Bot technology, the early stages of protoform technology.

Csirac's fembot partner was onboard the ship that exploded when testing the TransWarp drive, and the Predacons convince him that the Maximals would have pulled the plug on his project, so the only way to save his partner is to continue his research under their watchful eye and see the project through.

Rhinox implores the Autobot/Maximal leadership to search for Csirac but he is told they have bigger problems.
There's no need for Tripredacus to kidnap Tarantulas because he's also a spawn of Unicron not originally of Cybertronian creation. And him having a partner would be against his character who's just twisted and evil to the core. Perhaps you could transplant that story idea to Depth Charge - because we know that Depth Charge was once an ideal heroic Maximal (as Optimus Primal described him) who became all bitter and full off rage of Protoform X killed (ate!!) everyone he cared for. How much more awful would it be if he'd consumed Depth Charge's beloved...

I do like the idea of the Autobots using Transwarp drive to beat the Decepticons into submission though. The Pax Cybertronia is named after the Pax Brittania, which was the policy used by the British Empire to force other countries into submission in what was called "Gunboat Diplomacy." Rather nasty. ;) I'd like to see the so-called "heroic" Autobots using questionable means to assure victory.


Magmatron, a Predacon General, is damaged in battle. He is brought back to the Predacon installation and Csirac is made to help him. Csirac informs him that his spark is fine but his body can no longer support the spark.

Csirac, under orders from the Tripredacus Brotherhood, has been developing a new more powerful body for them. Magmatron instructs Csirac to put his spark into the body. Csirac informs him it needs 3 sparks to pilot it, putting his spark in it could extinguish it.

Magmatron threatens him some more and tells him to do it anyway. Csirac does, but the body lies there, motionless. He assumes it has failed and returns to his work.

The Predacon installation comes under Autobot/Maximal attack. Csirac is injured as Magmatron awakens, his spark was powerful enough to survive being pulled into 3 bodies, his is now a mitotic. He joins the battle and the Predacons seem to have the upper hand.
I like this. :)



He installs the sparks, as well as that of Silverbolt, into the new combiner body.

Magnaboss is born, as Ironhide and Prowl return from the All Spark into the new form. They join the battle.
Silverbolt, Prowl and Ironhide were all rebuilt during G1 during the Earthforce Saga (which was Hasbro's push to promote the Classics Reissues in 1990-91). They survived the battle of Unicron and were even seen in G2.

Perhaps you could have Fireflight and Air Raid killed, and Slingshot and Sky Shadow reformatted as Decepticons in an early version of the Predacon Shell Program (this would explain why there are Predacons with their names in Beast Wars -- "Sling" (the dimetrodon) is the Japanese name for G1 Slingshot). So having lost his fellow Aerialbots, Prowl and Ironhide are reconstructed as gestalt members to combine with him to form Magnaboss.


The Autobots/Maximals defeat the Predacons (or did they) and the Predacons, under the Tripredacus Council, sign the Pax Cbertronia.
I reckon Springer and the Wreckers would be instrumental in this, as mentioned in the BotCon comics.


Heavy sanctions placed on the Predacons. This outrages the Predacons on the street who are treated as 2nd class citizens, but the Tripredacus Council couldn't care less.
This is good - but I think it should be, the Tripredacus Council pretends to care, and takes a lot of ineffectual action which doesn't really help the Predacons. The Tripredacus Council has always maintained a guise of working in the interests of the Predacon cause.

They keep making hollow promises to their people which they never properly fulfill. In other words, they're really good politicians! :D


Magmatron seeths and plots his own plots.
As well as Megatron and Galvatron... various groups of malcontent groups form within the Predacons against the corruption of Tripredacus, but perhaps the iron grip of the Tripredacus makes them all too paranoid to make contact with each other -- much like in the current V series with the Fifth Column and other anti-Visitor resistance fighters operating independently of each other.


300 years pass.

A young genius upstart, who was a Predacon analyst on the development of TransWarp stuff, gathers a crew, steals the Golden Disk and a ship and makes for Earth.

The Beast Wars.
Nice! :)


The Vok become aware of the Maximals and Predacons and of Cybertron.
I think the Vok were always aware -- they just didn't know that some of them had travelled back in time and 'contaminated' their experiments.


Tarantulas, with the Vok inside him, is killed and his Spark rejoins the All Spark.

The Vok piggy-back back to the All Spark.
1: Tarantulas doesn't have a Spark that can return to the All Spark since he's of non-Cybertronian origin
2: After the Beast Wars ended, Tarantulas was ressurected in a blasphemous state of undeath because of the Vok power his body had absorbed at the moment of destruction (Undead Tarantulas = FoxKids! silver repaint of Transmetal Tarantulas). He rebuilt Ravage as Tripredacus Agent and began constructing new troops Razorclaw and Iguanus. The Vok responded to this threat by constructing Primal Prime (using the power of Optimus Prime's Matrix) and ressurected Tigatron and Airazor (as Transmetals).
Undead Tarantulas rips the Autobot Matrix out of Primal Prime's body (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/5/5e/Primevaldawn2_tarantulas_matrix.jpg)
Tarantulas inside Unicron (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/c/cd/Escape-Tarantulas.jpg) (Transformers Universe: events taking place after BM)


Unicron approaches Cybertron and unleashes his armada of reanimated Cybertronain Empire warriors on Caybertron before plunging his horns into Cybertrons surface.

The Vok arrive on the astral plane to see Primus and Unicron battling.

Unicron kills Primus.

The Vok take up Primus' helm and defeats Unicron, thus taking both their places as both the Lord of Light and the Lord of Darkness.

The change in power at the top unleashes an energy from deep within Cybertron and reformats the entore world and all those on it.

Primus was killed by Unicron during G1. It was at this point that Powermaster Optimus Prime realised the true reason why Primus created the Transformers - not to fight in His stead, but to carry on after He was gone.

Primus and Unicron are also unable to battle on the astral plane since they were "imprisoned" in their metal world-bodies (and possibly the creation of the multiverse). This also contradicts the whole Unicron story arcs in existing Beast Wars continuity.

Up to you if you want to make your story "in-canon" or not, but if you want to, then these are some issues to consider.

[Verno]

Alright Gok, lets dance.


I like how you gave new names for pre-Earth Tarantulas and Rhinox. :)

Taranachus is Tarantulas but Rhinox is still Rhinox. Csirac is a completely new character.


The Decepticons were supposedly leaderless at the end of the war, and the Predacons took the initiative to lead the Decepticons into signing the Pax Cybertronia. However, their policy was one of unconditional surrender to the Autobots, with the secret plan of rebuilding their forces to one day usurp the Autobots in the future - this would become the Predacon cause by the time of the Beast Wars.

I'm creating my own Universe and ending to the Great War, as nothing I've read is conclusive. I wish to borrow some things from canon and non-canon [like Furman's Alignment], disregard some others [like BM {which dissappears if you follow this timeline} BW Neo and BW II because I just plain don't like them and have no place for them in my Universe], and just plain invent some stuff, like Csirac.

With that in mind, I take Megatron as dead at the hands of the Liege Maximo at the end of Alignment and Soundwave in charge of the Decepticons who are basically a spent force.

This leaves me free to slot in a new origin for the Predacon Faction, as a means for Decepticons still keen to fight.


The "Maximals" was the name of the 'Maximal Upgrade' - the next step from Micromaster technology. In G1 Anglophone continuity, Micromasters were created as a means of conserving fuel by downsizing the Transformers. In Beast Wars it is stated that the BW TFs are smaller and more fuel-efficient than the larger G1 Transformers. This is why in "The Agenda Part 3" when Megatron first enters the Ark and views the G1 Transformers lying in stasis, he calls them "Archaic Energon guzzlers!"

Could the Maximals not simply be a small fighting force, like the Wreckers? But their popularity grew? Perhaps they were the first to have the mini-bot/protoform upgrade/downsizing, and became a very efficient fighting force?

As with the Predacon faction, I feel free reign to construct a new origin for the Maximals, and a more logical reasoning to later abandon both the titles of Autobot and Decepticon.


Rodimus became downsized by the end of the Great War, which makes sense because there was a Micromaster Hot Rod toy in G1 (came with Star Convoy) - and in during the time of Beast Machines when Rodimus is leading the new Wreckers, he is the same size as Maximals and Predacons; thus presumably Micromaster sized.

BM doesn't exist anymore :p We're skipping it and going straight to TransTech. The point of the Beast Wars was not to bring the organic back to Cybertron, but TransMetal Technology!


While it's never been explicitly stated that Micromaster technology led to the Maximal Upgrade, when you think about it, it makes sense. The G1 Transformers were already heading toward downsizing themselves to conserve fuel anyway... seems logical that they would legislate it as a standard requirement in post-war Cybertron.

I have no problem with this. What was first used as a weapon or advantage, was later used planet-wide.



Interesting.

Be aware by the time of the Beast Wars, Unicron has been physically destroyed -- presumably since G1. He only exists in spiritual form known as Dark Essence or Angolmois Energy. When Unicron destroys the Maximal Armada, he is still in spirit form, albeit fully powered by his Angolmois Energy (and using BW Galvatron as a vessel) -- then he possesses Vector Sigma and begins reconstructing Cybertron as his new body. All this would be needless if he already had a reconstructed body as you've suggested. So I don't know if you really want to keep the story of him having a new body, otherwise you'll need to find a way to have that body destroyed. But one would assume that if the BW TFs had recently destroyed Unicron, they would be more aware about the nature of Dark Essence and Angolmois Energy than they already were...

Also, other agents of Unicron include the Blentrons, Shokoract, Antagony and Cataclysm.

Also, Tripredacus was never made from Cybertronians. Neither was Tarantulas. That's why Tarantulas was willing to destroy the Ark and kill all the Autobots and Decepticons inside them, wiping out the existence of Maximals and Predacons. When asked about this supposedly suicidal plan, Tarantulas boasted that it would only effect Transformers "descendant from Autobots and Decepticons" and that he and the Tripredacus Council have "different origins" (and thus were immune to being uncreated at the destruction of the Ark).

*Takes a huge breath*

I'm discounting BW Neo and BW II, I may utilise character names, but the stories I've discounted completely. I've never been a fan so feel no requirement to use them.

So if Unicron appeared in BW Neo or II, I don't care. And if he was destroyed? Good for him. But in this little story, he's out in the depths of space, blackmailing a creature (could be another Primacron) into building him a new body.

Don't misquote Tarantulas. He says his origins are different to the Transformers on the Ark, and destroying it will have no affect on him. He's still a Transformer though.

He, and the Tripredacus Council, were part of the Cybertronian Empire, who left Cybertron well before the Great War and the time of Prime and megatron, and minions of the Liege Maximo. They were reformatted by Unicron thus becoming Unicron Spawn. I've got all the bases covered here. I'll draw you a diagram if you wish :p But the important bit is: They are still Transformers. they're not some alien race.


Early Transwarp technology was already underway during G1. This is stated in G1 Megatron's message encrypted in the Sounds of Earth golden disk from Voyager II. Transwarp technology was still in its infancy during G1 Megatron's time, hence he left a message for future descendants to use it to change destiny once it was perfected to ensure Decepticon victory.

Not a worry there. Csirac was nearing completion of the Technology, especially seeing as though they were at a testing stage.


Nothing wrong with having Maximal scientists working on and maybe perfecting Transwarp drive tech, but it would definitely not be in its early stages and more likely approaching its final stages. Maybe it could be like the Star Wars prequels were individual one-man starfighters needed to hook up to a hyperdrive ring to jump because the technology wasn't compact enough to fit inside the fighter -- so maybe they weren't able to make the technology small enough to put inside a ship so they need to hook up to an external Transwarp Drive ... thing. :p Or maybe it could be like in Transformers Animated where they have to have constructed Space Bridges and they can only transwarp between established Bridge points (whereas in Beast Wars they can transwarp into anywhere - like when Depth Charge warped out into a Quantum Wave ;)).

Maybe. I'll think some more on it.



This would go against the "unconditional surrender" of the Predacons -- but I do like the idea of them usurping Razorclaw. ;) Maybe the Tripredacus Generals came in as Decepticons much earlier on - say after the events of Transformers Zone when Dai Atlas killed Predaking (and Razorclaw most likely didn't survive) -- the other Predacons would have been leaderless, and then the three Tripredacus dudes came into to bolster their depleted ranks; replacing their one fallen Predacon with 3 new ones. The Predacons were probably so relieved that they didn't think to question where they came from -- and then later during the Autobot-Decepticon war they could prove themselves worthy, gaining the trust of the Decepticons, and then orchestrate the assassination of Megatron, leaving the Decepticons leaderless and in a vulnerable position to be conquered by the Autobots.

The Trip Brotherhood has to enter when they did. They've always has a mystery about them, even to other Predacons, thus the mistrust, so if their origins (and intentions) are blurry, then all the better for their mystery.

Isn't Razorclaw shown still to be alive in one of the recent BotCon comics? He was an exclusive toy not long ago. So I feel free to still have him alive.


After all, it seems that the Tripredacus Generals' objective isn't really to help the Decepticons or Predacons win, but to keep the Transformers disunified and unable to unite against Unicron's impending attack. Perhaps Ravage could be one Decepticon who trusts them utterly, and you could have the Tripredacus Generals frame an Autobot (or maybe another Decepticon!) as Megatron's assassin. This would ensure Ravage's loyalty to them as the Tripredacus Agent with no knowledge of the true nature of his new masters.

Megatron was killed by the Liege Maximo. Ravage doesn't trust the Council, he serves whoever pays the cheques. His last words were "Decepticons Forever", not Predacons... He ultimately serves himself, thus why he turned on the Tripredacus Council and started following BW Megatron's orders.

Want to know what the Tripredacus Council actually want?

They were tortured and reformatted by Unicron, right? They know he'll eventually make another play for Cybertron and to kill his brother Primus. They intend to blackmail him with TransWarp technology, because they know exactly where he was when he was weak and could go back and destroy him then. They wish to be almost Gods themselves. Or as close to, having Unicron act out their will because they have leverage on him.

They ultimately fail though.


There's no need for Tripredacus to kidnap Tarantulas because he's also a spawn of Unicron not originally of Cybertronian creation. And him having a partner would be against his character who's just twisted and evil to the core. Perhaps you could transplant that story idea to Depth Charge - because we know that Depth Charge was once an ideal heroic Maximal (as Optimus Primal described him) who became all bitter and full off rage of Protoform X killed (ate!!) everyone he cared for. How much more awful would it be if he'd consumed Depth Charge's beloved...

I think you misunderstood. Taranachus is working for the Council and simply is requesting they send someone (Magmatron) to kidnap Csirac so he can probe his brain for answers.

Csirac isn't his partner. Taranachus is a Pred working on their own version of TransWarp technology but is ultimately failing until he gets his hands on Csirac.

I'e got other plans for Depth Charge. A spotlight issue.


I do like the idea of the Autobots using Transwarp drive to beat the Decepticons into submission though. The Pax Cybertronia is named after the Pax Brittania, which was the policy used by the British Empire to force other countries into submission in what was called "Gunboat Diplomacy." Rather nasty. ;) I'd like to see the so-called "heroic" Autobots using questionable means to assure victory.

I like the idea too. I thought it was more like Hiroshima and Nagasaki myself, but sure.


I like this. :)

Me too. I like the character of Magmatron and what he was about in the BW comics Gathering and Ascention. He deserves some focus.


Silverbolt, Prowl and Ironhide were all rebuilt during G1 during the Earthforce Saga (which was Hasbro's push to promote the Classics Reissues in 1990-91). They survived the battle of Unicron and were even seen in G2.

Perhaps you could have Fireflight and Air Raid killed, and Slingshot and Sky Shadow reformatted as Decepticons in an early version of the Predacon Shell Program (this would explain why there are Predacons with their names in Beast Wars -- "Sling" (the dimetrodon) is the Japanese name for G1 Slingshot). So having lost his fellow Aerialbots, Prowl and Ironhide are reconstructed as gestalt members to combine with him to form Magnaboss.

As far as I'm aware, Ironhide and Prowl were killed by Megatron on an Autobot shuttle in the '86 Movie. "Such heroic nonsence". If they were brought back, well, they might just have been killed again.

The shell program doesn't work at this stage but it might be perfected later to be used for spying and subterfuge.


I reckon Springer and the Wreckers would be instrumental in this, as mentioned in the BotCon comics.

I'm sure they'd be on the frontline for sure. Perhaps they discoer the Predacon installation and attack it before waiting for re-enforcements.


This is good - but I think it should be, the Tripredacus Council pretends to care, and takes a lot of ineffectual action which doesn't really help the Predacons. The Tripredacus Council has always maintained a guise of working in the interests of the Predacon cause.

They keep making hollow promises to their people which they never properly fulfill. In other words, they're really good politicians! :D

There is dissent against the Tripredacus Council, it's written all over BW Megatron's face, thus prompting his actions because he's sick of waiting. They are dark and mysterious 'bots, let them plot and scheme in peace.


As well as Megatron and Galvatron... various groups of malcontent groups form within the Predacons against the corruption of Tripredacus, but perhaps the iron grip of the Tripredacus makes them all too paranoid to make contact with each other -- much like in the current V series with the Fifth Column and other anti-Visitor resistance fighters operating independently of each other.

Indeed. Schemers all over the place.


Nice! :)

I thought so. He's a genius and is seen reprogramming transwarp cells, so he must have had some history with the technology.


I think the Vok were always aware -- they just didn't know that some of them had travelled back in time and 'contaminated' their experiments.

Indeed. Time Travel capability made them more interesting and thus more of a danger and must be eliminated.


1: Tarantulas doesn't have a Spark that can return to the All Spark since he's of non-Cybertronian origin
2: After the Beast Wars ended, Tarantulas was ressurected in a blasphemous state of undeath because of the Vok power his body had absorbed at the moment of destruction (Undead Tarantulas = FoxKids! silver repaint of Transmetal Tarantulas). He rebuilt Ravage as Tripredacus Agent and began constructing new troops Razorclaw and Iguanus. The Vok responded to this threat by constructing Primal Prime (using the power of Optimus Prime's Matrix) and ressurected Tigatron and Airazor (as Transmetals).
Undead Tarantulas rips the Autobot Matrix out of Primal Prime's body (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/5/5e/Primevaldawn2_tarantulas_matrix.jpg)
Tarantulas inside Unicron (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/c/cd/Escape-Tarantulas.jpg) (Transformers Universe: events taking place after BM)

1. Yes he is. He is a Transformer and has a spark.
2. That contradicts what happens in Beast Wars: The gathering, where Magmatron puts Ravage's Spark into a new body and creates Tripredacus Agent. Contradictions all over the place.

I don't hold much stead in the BotCon comics, they serve their own purpose.

Contradictions all over the place, thus giving me even more leverage to make up my own story.


Primus was killed by Unicron during G1. It was at this point that Powermaster Optimus Prime realised the true reason why Primus created the Transformers - not to fight in His stead, but to carry on after He was gone.

Primus and Unicron are also unable to battle on the astral plane since they were "imprisoned" in their metal world-bodies (and possibly the creation of the multiverse). This also contradicts the whole Unicron story arcs in existing Beast Wars continuity.

Carry on his stead after he was gone? No, that falls to the Vok in this case. The Transformers are to protect his slumbering conciousness and wield the Matrix against the physical form of Unicron. Ultimately, the battle will end on the astral plane, and so much time has passed since G1 and BW, so both of them could have reappeared on the astral plane.


Up to you if you want to make your story "in-canon" or not, but if you want to, then these are some issues to consider.

This is basically my own Universe. As I said, I'm drawing on some canon, some non-canon, and making other stuff up.

I'm just trying to make a story that is logical and works from the 'end' of G1 and the Great War to the evolution of TransTech.

Questions?

[GoktimusPrime]

Well, if you're going to go with your own continuity (and drawing select elements from canonical sources) then you're pretty free to do as you like. :)


Alright Gok, lets dance.
Hey hey, watch that hand! :p


Could the Maximals not simply be a small fighting force, like the Wreckers? But their popularity grew? Perhaps they were the first to have the mini-bot/protoform upgrade/downsizing, and became a very efficient fighting force?
That's an interesting idea.

Suggestion: make it a hodge-podge crew of various Micromasters from different teams rather than sticking to Hasbro's pre-defined team. e.g. Swindler, Fixit, Powertrain, Groundshaker, Atlan etc. (just some random names off the top of my head) - that's one thing I enjoyed with the commando teams that Furman made in G1, they were random assortments. In the G1 cartoon they usually stuck with pre-defined sub groups from the toyline (e.g. Dinobots, Constructicons, Aerialbots etc.), but in the G1 comics they mixed them up more. e.g. The Wreckers had Deluxe Autobots with Jumpstarters with Triple Changers, the Decepticon Mayhem Attack Squad had Triggercons with Small Targetmasters (but not Quake) with Pretender Beasts etc., the Survivors had various random Autobots and a Decepticon among their ranks! et al. Maybe they picked the best Micromaster warriors, regardless of which team they had been previously assigned to and assembled them as a secret crack unit known as the Maximals - perhaps as a Micromaster off-shoot of the Wreckers hand picked by Springer to assist the Wreckers?

... just a thought. ;)


So if Unicron appeared in BW Neo or II, I don't care. And if he was destroyed? Good for him. But in this little story, he's out in the depths of space, blackmailing a creature (could be another Primacron) into building him a new body.
Unicron did appear in Anglophone continuity too (re: Shokoract arc).


Don't misquote Tarantulas. He says his origins are different to the Transformers on the Ark, and destroying it will have no affect on him. He's still a Transformer though.

He, and the Tripredacus Council, were part of the Cybertronian Empire, who left Cybertron well before the Great War and the time of Prime and megatron, and minions of the Liege Maximo. They were reformatted by Unicron thus becoming Unicron Spawn. I've got all the bases covered here. I'll draw you a diagram if you wish :p But the important bit is: They are still Transformers. they're not some alien race.
Well, Tarantulas did explicitly say that the destruction of the Ark would only affect Transformers descendant from Autobots and Decepticons and that he and Tripredacus shared different origins, then later Megatron referred to Tarantulas as "Unicron spawn," and it's since been officially retconned as literally meaning that.

But in the "Vernoverse" if you wanna go with the Cybertronian Empire origin, that can work too. :)


Isn't Razorclaw shown still to be alive in one of the recent BotCon comics? He was an exclusive toy not long ago. So I feel free to still have him alive.
Yeah, fair point. :)



Want to know what the Tripredacus Council actually want?
Twinkies?


They were tortured and reformatted by Unicron, right? They know he'll eventually make another play for Cybertron and to kill his brother Primus. They intend to blackmail him with TransWarp technology, because they know exactly where he was when he was weak and could go back and destroy him then. They wish to be almost Gods themselves. Or as close to, having Unicron act out their will because they have leverage on him.

They ultimately fail though.
Heh, sounds similar to G1's Target: 2006 and the Time Wars. ;) (great stories)


I like the idea too. I thought it was more like Hiroshima and Nagasaki myself, but sure.
Yeah, fairly similar. The Americans did copy the British in using Gunboat Diplomacy when Commodore Matthew Perry sailed into Edo Harbour with their heavily armed "Goodwill Fleet" and "persuaded" Japan to open herself up to the rest of the world. ;)

But the British were extremely efficient in it - they called it Pax Brittania, Latin for "British Peace"; so "Pax Cybertronia" sounds like Latin for "Cybertronian Peace"... but how 'peaceful' is it really? After all, in Beast Machines the Vehicons did achieve peace... through tyranny. ;)



As far as I'm aware, Ironhide and Prowl were killed by Megatron on an Autobot shuttle in the '86 Movie. "Such heroic nonsence". If they were brought back, well, they might just have been killed again.
That sucks for them! :p They were also killed in the Underbase Saga, then ressurected in the Earthforce Saga... and I don't think they were killed off since. Prowl somehow got infused with Nucleon and became a motorbike-riding Action Master. But hey... it's possible that they could've been killed at a later point. Ironhide did have 2 different G2 toys (Power Master and Go-Bot). <shrugs>


2. That contradicts what happens in Beast Wars: The gathering, where Magmatron puts Ravage's Spark into a new body and creates Tripredacus Agent. Contradictions all over the place.
Yeah, but the IDW BW comics have several contradictions with the animated continuity.


I don't hold much stead in the BotCon comics, they serve their own purpose.
Be that as it may, it's still official canon.


Contradictions all over the place, thus giving me even more leverage to make up my own story.
Well, mostly contradictions with IDW it seems. That's the main thing I didn't like with the IDW BW comics, especially the Ascending - on their own they're nice stories, but continuity wise they're a headache. :(

But hey, since you're cherry-picking canonical references for your "Vernoverse" story... feel free to pick and choose what you like. :)


Carry on his stead after he was gone?
Yup. RE: "On The Edge of Extinction." That's also when Primus was slain by Unicron.


No, that falls to the Vok in this case. The Transformers are to protect his slumbering conciousness and wield the Matrix against the physical form of Unicron. Ultimately, the battle will end on the astral plane, and so much time has passed since G1 and BW, so both of them could have reappeared on the astral plane.
Erm... okay, that contradicts with Anglophone G1 continuity. Also, Primus and Unicron are unable to return to the astral plane, regardless of how much time has passed. They left the astral plane and came to this reality around the "dawn of time" -- I don't think a couple more centuries would do anything. There's no expiration date on how long they'll be imprisoned in this universe; Primus saw to that... he made sure that neither he nor Unicron could escape this reality (and thus contain the conflict within a single multiversal plane instead of potentially infinite ones).

Anyway... your universe... do as you like. :)


This is basically my own Universe. As I said, I'm drawing on some canon, some non-canon, and making other stuff up.
Yeah, that's what most fan-fic writers do. I personally prefer in-canon stories, but that's just my preference. ;)


I'm just trying to make a story that is logical and works from the 'end' of G1 and the Great War to the evolution of TransTech.
Well I guess that depends on how fussy you wanna get about canonical "logic." If you want to be more liberal and cherry-pick what you like from canonical sources, then you're basically following your own customised chain of logic really.


Questions?
What is the atomic weight of Boron?

[Verno]

That's an interesting idea.

Suggestion: make it a hodge-podge crew of various Micromasters from different teams rather than sticking to Hasbro's pre-defined team. e.g. Swindler, Fixit, Powertrain, Groundshaker, Atlan etc. (just some random names off the top of my head) - that's one thing I enjoyed with the commando teams that Furman made in G1, they were random assortments. In the G1 cartoon they usually stuck with pre-defined sub groups from the toyline (e.g. Dinobots, Constructicons, Aerialbots etc.), but in the G1 comics they mixed them up more. e.g. The Wreckers had Deluxe Autobots with Jumpstarters with Triple Changers, the Decepticon Mayhem Attack Squad had Triggercons with Small Targetmasters (but not Quake) with Pretender Beasts etc., the Survivors had various random Autobots and a Decepticon among their ranks! et al. Maybe they picked the best Micromaster warriors, regardless of which team they had been previously assigned to and assembled them as a secret crack unit known as the Maximals - perhaps as a Micromaster off-shoot of the Wreckers hand picked by Springer to assist the Wreckers?

... just a thought.

I've never liked the idea of the Maximals simply appearing out of nowhere (or so it seemed) They have to have their own history by the time the Great War ended, so this chain of events gives them that history.

Then as the protoform/mini-bot tech is wider spread, the resulting 'bots are more like Maximals than Autobots. 'Autobot' being their slave name given to them by the Quintessons anyway, weren't they?


Unicron did appear in Anglophone continuity too (re: Shokoract arc).

What is this Anglophone continuity?

Shokoract I'm dubious of as he's been used twice now: In BotCon and IDW BW. He can't be in both if both are accepted as 'canon'.

This term 'canon' is held with too much regard in my opinion.


Well, Tarantulas did explicitly say that the destruction of the Ark would only affect Transformers descendant from Autobots and Decepticons and that he and Tripredacus shared different origins, then later Megatron referred to Tarantulas as "Unicron spawn," and it's since been officially retconned as literally meaning that.

But in the "Vernoverse" if you wanna go with the Cybertronian Empire origin, that can work too.

I just like the neatness of it all, it all fits, and, importantly, makes sense.

You've officially coined the term Vernoverse.


Be that as it may, it's still official canon.

See comment above re: canon :p


Yup. RE: "On The Edge of Extinction." That's also when Primus was slain by Unicron.

So Primus is officially dead in all continuities? And the All Spark is something different and seperate from his 'spirit' or 'essence'?


Erm... okay, that contradicts with Anglophone G1 continuity. Also, Primus and Unicron are unable to return to the astral plane, regardless of how much time has passed. They left the astral plane and came to this reality around the "dawn of time" -- I don't think a couple more centuries would do anything. There's no expiration date on how long they'll be imprisoned in this universe; Primus saw to that... he made sure that neither he nor Unicron could escape this reality (and thus contain the conflict within a single multiversal plane instead of potentially infinite ones).

Anyway... your universe... do as you like.

Come on, they're Gods. Surely as they recover from previous encounters and gain strength they'd bust through that glass ceiling and back onto the Astral Plane. A God isn't a God unless he's sitting on a white fluffy cloud looking down on everyone. (I'm an atheist myself, so thats slightly tongue in cheek)


Yeah, that's what most fan-fic writers do. I personally prefer in-canon stories, but that's just my preference.

Just wait til it's published by IDW (or whoever has the TF rights at the time). Then it WILL be canon!


What is the atomic weight of Boron?

10.81

[GoktimusPrime]

What is this Anglophone continuity?
Anglophone = English language.
i.e. American, British and Canadian.


Shokoract I'm dubious of as he's been used twice now: In BotCon and IDW BW. He can't be in both if both are accepted as 'canon'.
Well, Transformers canon has always contradicted itself, ever since the beginning. BotCon continuity is more in line with the cartoon continuity whereas IDW continuity has more conflicts with it and is sort of a "splinter" continuity if you will (much like how the Japanese anime continuity was a splinter off American G1 cartoon continuity).


This term 'canon' is held with too much regard in my opinion.
I'll agree to disagree with you on that.


You've officially coined the term Vernoverse.
Hurrah! :D


So Primus is officially dead in all continuities? And the All Spark is something different and seperate from his 'spirit' or 'essence'?
Primus died in the Marvel Comic continuity - which was where He originated from. Because Beast Wars is really a continuation of the G1 continuity family and not any specific G1 continuity itself (i.e. BW draws elements from various G1 sources like the cartoon, comics etc, despite the fact that they're disparate continuities; BW treats them as the same), it's difficult to pinpoint precisely where Primus stands in the Beast Wars universe. But one would assume that Primus was no longer around considering that when Unicron attacked Cybertron and Vector Sigma, Primus did nothing. Also, Vector Sigma was proclaiming itself as "God of Transformers" - thus presumably taking stewardship/custodianship of Cybertron in Primus' stead.

Primus originally didn't exist in any other continuity outside of the Marvel Comics and Beast Wars... but 2005's Transformers Cybertron has since retconned Primus as a multiversal singularity, so if you want, you could draw Primus from another G1 source (e.g. the cartoon) and use that... since Primus was never killed in the G1 cartoon. Mind you, trying to expand on Primus' existence in the G1 cartoon can be very problematic! But there are other G1 sources other than the comics or the cartoon that you can draw on; they're just the most prominent sources. :)

Or you could just retcon G1 yourself, since ya know... it's the Vernoverse. ;)


Come on, they're Gods. Surely as they recover from previous encounters and gain strength they'd bust through that glass ceiling and back onto the Astral Plane. A God isn't a God unless he's sitting on a white fluffy cloud looking down on everyone.
Actually the God of Abraham is unusual amongst Gods. He's more like a Super God. If you look at most Gods in other religions, they're not all supremely powerful, flawless and indestructible like the God of Abraham. Or Chuck Norris^Drift. ;) Gods in a more Classical sense can be defeated - just not usually by mortals. Look at how the Titans were overthrown by the Olympians.


(I'm an atheist myself, so thats slightly tongue in cheek)
Perhaps because you have yet to discover the irrefutable facts of the One True Faith (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Transformers-The-Religion/129480307081019) :)


Just wait til it's published by IDW (or whoever has the TF rights at the time). Then it WILL be canon!
Bring it! :D


10.81
You knew that without Google, right? ;)

[Verno]

Ok, so reading over some TF Wiki stuff, which is just a mish-mash of everything...

Primus and Unicron share a mental link of some kind it seems? Thus why Primus is asleep, so Unicron can't sense him. But when Primus let out his Primal Scream after being shot in the head by some ricochet off Grimlock, Unicron momentarily sensed him, correct?

Something made mention of an Omniversal Matrix, where all the other old Gods are, but Primus isn't allowed to pass there until he defeats Unicron. I don't know what continuity this comes from, but the idea of other Gods is intersting.

My mind says:

Long before he created the Transformers, Primus tried to simply create new Gods, the Lords of Light. Unicron created his armies of Darkness or whatnot. They fought and all perished because they weren't strong enough as you can't create a new God over night.

Unicron and Primus continued to fight before Primus did his old trick of trapping each of them in a planetoid.

Primus then lay his plans for the original 13 Transformers and the creation of the Swarm/Vok to eventually evolve to such a strength and intelligence that they would help him battle Unicron and would be able to defeat him and take both Primus' and Unicron's place as God of the Transformers.

Millenia pass.

When the Vok piggy-backed back to the All Spark/Matrix with Tarantulas' spark, this awoke Primus from his slumber, and whatever level of consiousness this mental connection between Unicron and Primus is on, is where they battled it out.

Unicron mortally wounds Primus, who now lays dying, pleading for his creation to take up arms against his foe, Unicron. The Vok do, evolving to their final stage as a God and get a new snazzy name, lets call him Voxus for the moment, and he kills Unicron on this level of consciousness, as in the real world the Maximals and Predacons battle Unicron's Cybertronian Empire recruits who he has reanimated (Galvatrin style).

Unicron passes into the Void or to the Omniversal Matrix with his other God brethren, and Voxus and Primus have a little chat before Primus too finally joins his brothers and sisters in Valhalla and can be at peace knowing his creations are safe and sound.

Unicron had sunk his horns deep into Cybertron, so the two were joined. An emence power erupts from the centre of Cybertron, reformatting everything and combining the two planetoids into one big thing, like two moons being joined by 2 enormous highways if you will.

TransTech.

The thing practically writes itself.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ok, so reading over some TF Wiki stuff, which is just a mish-mash of everything...
TFwiki is okay as a guide - but they're ultimately just summarising stuff.


Primus and Unicron share a mental link of some kind it seems? Thus why Primus is asleep, so Unicron can't sense him. But when Primus let out his Primal Scream after being shot in the head by some ricochet off Grimlock, Unicron momentarily sensed him, correct?
Yup.


Something made mention of an Omniversal Matrix, where all the other old Gods are, but Primus isn't allowed to pass there until he defeats Unicron. I don't know what continuity this comes from, but the idea of other Gods is intersting.
As TFwiki describes it, the Omniversal Matrix is much like a home and final resting place for Gods, much like say Olympus or Asgard.


My mind says:

Long before he created the Transformers, Primus tried to simply create new Gods, the Lords of Light. Unicron created his armies of Darkness or whatnot. They fought and all perished because they weren't strong enough as you can't create a new God over night.
In official canon Primus and Unicron cannot create other gods. Primus rebuilt his metal-rich asteroid into Cybertron (which is a whole story unto itself) and Unicron reshaped his into the transforming robot body we're familiar with. Primus then created 13 life forms; and much like Unicron, they were robots with the ability to transform. Unicron is not a creator god, he only destroys. Remember that Unicron hates creation and longs to be one with the Void, which he has accomplished several times over (i.e. he has destroyed the universe before, and each time it's reborn he seeks out to destroy it again). Unicron finds creation to be nauseating and frustrating... he longs for the peace and tranquility of the Void.

So because Unicron is unable to create, he makes minions by rebuilding other life forms. e.g. Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, Hook (not the Constructicon), Line and Sinker were all remade from pre-existing beings. Unicron is also able to psychically enslave beings; as he did with Death's Head and the Junkions. But he cannot create.


Unicron and Primus continued to fight before Primus did his old trick of trapping each of them in a planetoid.

Primus then lay his plans for the original 13 Transformers and the creation of the Swarm/Vok to eventually evolve to such a strength and intelligence that they would help him battle Unicron and would be able to defeat him and take both Primus' and Unicron's place as God of the Transformers.
The Swarm was an accidental and unintended by-product of the Cybertronian Empire... unless you wanna go down the path of it being something "foretold" by Primus. But it seems like a cumbersome plan to have the Swarm go forth and destroy life (the one thing that Primus is trying to protect) with a particular hunger for Cybertronian life, before finally evolving into the Vok thanks to a very risky decision made by Optimus Prime. :/ Remember that in G2 Megatron had previously ripped the Matrix out of Prime's body with his bare hands, then it fell into Starscream's possession who used it to power him up and merge him with Warworld, then he tried to kill both Prime and Megatron. Fortunately for Prime, Megatron agreed to team up with him and Starscream agreed to return the Matrix to Prime. But it could have very easily gone the other way and Prime may never have gotten the Matrix back and the Swarm could have wiped out all the Transformers (as well as all life on Earth)!


When the Vok piggy-backed back to the All Spark/Matrix with Tarantulas' spark, this awoke Primus from his slumber, and whatever level of consiousness this mental connection between Unicron and Primus is on, is where they battled it out.
This could work if you ignored the whole Undead Tarantulas story arc. Vernoverse in action, yes? ;)


Unicron mortally wounds Primus, who now lays dying, pleading for his creation to take up arms against his foe, Unicron.
Erm... if you look at the way Unicron killed Primus in G1... there's no way Primus would have time to say anything to his creations! :D BOOM! Then again, Primus had manifested himself in the mortal body of Emirate Xaaron - cos in G1 he was stuck in the core of Cybertron.

I'd like to see something more like Transformers Cybertron -- have Cybertron transform into Primus and make 'em go toe to toe in God-Robot modes! Phwoar!! :D


The Vok do, evolving to their final stage as a God and get a new snazzy name, lets call him Voxus for the moment, and he kills Unicron on this level of consciousness, as in the real world the Maximals and Predacons battle Unicron's Cybertronian Empire recruits who he has reanimated (Galvatrin style).

Or maybe the Vok power up Primus, enabling Cybertron to transform. :)
(can you tell that I always make my stories up from a toy-play POV? :p)


Unicron passes into the Void or to the Omniversal Matrix with his other God brethren, and Voxus and Primus have a little chat before Primus too finally joins his brothers and sisters in Valhalla and can be at peace knowing his creations are safe and sound.
He wouldn't pass into the Void, because the Void only exists when Unicron succeeds in destroying the universe. Not sure if he can join the Omniversal Matrix though because he is a Fallen God. One would assume that his energy just disappates as Dark Angolmois Energy... that's what normally happens anyway.


Unicron had sunk his horns deep into Cybertron, so the two were joined. An emence power erupts from the centre of Cybertron, reformatting everything and combining the two planetoids into one big thing, like two moons being joined by 2 enormous highways if you will.

TransTech.

The thing practically writes itself.

So... two spherical planets pushed together... wouldn't it kinda look like metal bum cheeks? :p ;) Actually, the two planets would probably destroy each other in the collision I'd imagine...

[Verno]

It's all in the Vernoverse mate, I'm just throwing a few ideas around.

And see the attachment for what I mean about the joined planetoids. Can't you just see a TransTech Cheetor burning across one of the horn highways?!

[GoktimusPrime]

Looks kinky.

Ermm... wouldn't the gravitational pull of Cybertron and Unicron pull them closer together? Even if the horns are strong enough to withstand said pull, then wouldn't the two poles facing each other still be tearing at each other? It would certainly make running across those horns a massive challenge because... well, it'd be like running up a vertical wall - fighting against gravity. But only here with two conflicting gravity fields, it could possibly tear Cheetor apart.

I don't even want to think about how this would effect Cybertron's orbit! :eek:

[Verno]

Since when has sound scientific fact been paramount to Transformers stories?

We can technoform an entire planet into cyber-grass at the end of BM, but we can't have a dual-sphered new Cybertron to inhabit? Geez.

There is a lot of symmetry and poles and opposites in Transformers history and folk lore.

Primus and Unicron.

Good and Bad.

Prime and Megatron.

Autobot Decepticon.

And... the Vok have always been displayed as two floating heads. Two. Not one, not three, but two.

Voxus would be replacing two Gods at the beginning of (my interpretation of) TransTech.

Funny how I set out to simply skip BM with a rational, logical story, but have to go right to the root of TF folklore to do so.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm sorry, but I find this rather amusing... ;)
On one hand you're saying that you're dedicated to skipping the very unpopular Beast Machines (and I think noone can deny that) and replace it with a more rational and logical story - re:

Funny how I set out to simply skip BM with a rational, logical story, but have to go right to the root of TF folklore to do so.

But then on the other hand, you're willing to totally suspend disbelief by having Unicron humping Cybertron, cos ya know - it's as equally plausible/ridiculous as a technorganic Cybertron that we saw at the end of BM...

Since when has sound scientific fact been paramount to Transformers stories?

We can technoform an entire planet into cyber-grass at the end of BM, but we can't have a dual-sphered new Cybertron to inhabit? Geez.
...ya know, that irrational and illogical story you're trying to get away from? ;) lol :)

So basically, the answer to how the new Cybertron-Unicron combined planet could possibly exist is...

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd243/cyberlink420/Motivational%20Posters/th_AWizardDidIt.jpg (http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd243/cyberlink420/Motivational%20Posters/AWizardDidIt.jpg)
:D :D :D

Sorry dude... but I thought that was funny :)


There is a lot of symmetry and poles and opposites in Transformers history and folk lore.

Primus and Unicron.

Good and Bad.

Prime and Megatron.

Autobot Decepticon.
Hasbro and Mattel...


And... the Vok have always been displayed as two floating heads. Two. Not one, not three, but two.
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/punkgal_bucket/Drama_Masks_by_so_aesthetic.jpg
;) :p


Voxus would be replacing two Gods at the beginning of (my interpretation of) TransTech.
I don't see anything inherently wrong with this concept. There are times when lesser Gods have replaced mightier Gods (e.g. Olympians ousting the Titans). But I would question whether or not the creation of the Swarm/Vok was ever part of Primus' "plan" -- because if so, it's not a logical good one. :o

[Verno]

As shown below:

Unicron eats planets.

http://www.unicron.com/mainpage/unicron/cartoon/unicronplanetmode07.jpg

So if Cybertron is of equal size to Unicron...

Unicron's essence is destroyed as he begins to devour Cybertron. The two of them are then reformatted (using Transmetal technology which is much more advanced than normal metal used it Transformers technology up to this point) and joined. Thats not so hard to understand, is it? Or does being a teacher remove all traces of imagination and ability to suspend disbelief?

I'm trying to set a new beginning for Transformers to start and move on from, because for the past 20 years, Transformers has just gone around in circles, rehashing the same characters into a new universe which just results in a blur of influences and confusing 'canonological' events. G1, G2, Jap stuff, Armada, RID, Movie-Verse, US Comics, UK Comics, IDW...

Same sh!t, different universes, and none of which fits coherently together; I'm trying to make one that works from beginning to end (start).

When we did get a chance to move forward with the story, Beast Machines ruined any chance of that happening before we got to a point we could do so from: TransTech.

I'm simply trying to correct that, so give a guy a break for being passionate about it, and operating outside the square boxes of 'canon' and 'scientific fact'.

Science fiction. Science fiction.

[GoktimusPrime]

Sorry dude, I didn't mean to rain on your parade. :) Good luck to you. :D

[Hursticon]

Just a quick input on the Cybertron/Unicron Orbit or con-joining issue:
When I read your thought Verno, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryqN6dyUmJg&feature=related) is what entered my mind for the birth/upgrade/reformat of TransTech. :)

[Verno]

Cool clip there Hursty.

I still like the craziness of a double-orbed planetoid, even if the science doesn't suggest it's possible. But we've seen Unicron standing on Cybertron before, lets not get too wrapped up in physics :p

[Hursticon]

Cool clip there Hursty.

I still like the craziness of a double-orbed planetoid, even if the science doesn't suggest it's possible. But we've seen Unicron standing on Cybertron before, lets not get too wrapped up in physics :p

That was the only video I could find on youtube that was close to what you're suggesting. :o
I have seen a video of twin stars orbiting each other around a central point, like your suggestion, as well as twin stars orbiting a black hole, which looks freaking cool!, but yeah - I wasn't able to find the appropriate vid that reflected either but what you are suggesting is completely plausible in reality. ;):)

[Verno]

I wasn't able to find the appropriate vid that reflected either but what you are suggesting is completely plausible in reality. ;):)

Really? Sweet, perhaps physics is on my side after all! :cool: