Where is Optimus Prime?

[Verno]

I know a definitive end has never been written for the Great War and G1, but by the time we get around to Beast Wars, we can assume that Optimus Prime isn't around.

So where is he and what happened to him?

We have to delve into the realms of the non-canonical and conjecture.

Furman's Alignment comic says Prime is in some kind of Stasis after being damaged in the defeat of Galvatron and isn't present at the battle at the Hub.

And then in Furman's The Last Days of Optimus Prime, we have Prime travelling to J'nwan and to peace in the Allspark or Matrix or whatnot becuase he feels his place isn't in this new, post-upgrade, world.

But surely there is a little more to it than that.

For millenia, Prime has been the leader of the Autobots, but now in peace, control must be handed back to the Politicians, in the form of Ironhide, Prowl and Silverbolt of the Maximal Council, who now lead the newly created Maximal faction.

The Matrix (the one in Prime's chest) is never spoken of to exist in BW times. Big Convoy and Lio Convoy are said to have an Energon Matrix each, but this is different to the 'Light your Darkest Hour' kind of thing.

What do I think happened?

Prime is in Stasis, but his core consciousness is accessed and discussion is had with him. He hands (figuritively) power back to a Governing body, then asks that his body is taken to Vector Sigma.

The key for Vector Sigma has long since been destroyed, but the Matrix Holster in his chest is of early Cybertronian making, and will suffice as a key (just like Alpha Trion did by putting himself in it to get Vector Sigma to work ages ago) and so Prime goes in, and by doing so, opens channels that allow new Sparks to be released and new Transformers to be created, to repopulate Cybertron and start the Great Upgrade, as each new 'bot is put into a Proto-matter body.

The Matrix is retired, Prime saying that Primus whispered in his ear that it won't be needed again, though very dark days are ahead, but a new light will present itself. He created an Energon Matrix, which he says to give to a Maximal soldier called Maxim, who upon receiving it becomes Maximus Prime (Big Convoy, with a more anglo name).

Prime joins his old buddies in the Allspark and is at peace, but can be contacted on a toll free number than the Maximals have if they need help.

That's just how I see it anyway.

Other ideas?

[1orion2many]

:)Primes on one of those old age retirement cruises:D. On a more serious note it just doesn't sound right to me, why fight for all those millennia for peace and then just slink off and decommission yourself:confused:. I understand him handing over power as this would fit in with his persona but I believe he would want to be around to see a new age of prosperity for Cybertron. Maybe like a goodwill Ambassador to new contacts;):)

[Verno]

To me, Prime was created to battle Megatron and lead the Autobots to victory. He's done that, and ushered in a new era of Peace, so it's job well done. And after 4 millions years of fighting, I'd want a breather too.

(I really hate the Transformers timescale by the way, it's ridiculous)

[Sharky]

after a life time of war.. i imagine it would of been hard for some autobots to readjust... i do see prime handing over leadership but then i see him boarding a space cruiser with a few other bots... lets say Jazz, Grimlock and the dinobots and a few others and ventures off into space looking to round up the last of the decepticon element on the outer reaches of space... or any fight they find along the way.. prime couldnt rest without knowing that the entire universe was free of the decepticon/cybertronian menaces...

Primes out there. telling stories to the dinobots and dishing justice out galaxy wide..

[Paulbot]

The key for Vector Sigma has long since been destroyed, but the Matrix Holster in his chest is of early Cybertronian making, and will suffice as a key (just like Alpha Trion did by putting himself in it to get Vector Sigma to work ages ago) and so Prime goes in, and by doing so, opens channels that allow new Sparks to be released and new Transformers to be created, to repopulate Cybertron and start the Great Upgrade, as each new 'bot is put into a Proto-matter body.

This gives me a vision of Optimus Prime, strung up deep in the dark centre of Cybertron like the Queen in Aliens, laying new Protoforms from the back of his trailer. :eek:

[GoktimusPrime]

Optimus Prime was reformatted as a Maximal known as Convobat (http://www.cliffbee.com/reviews/convobat.php). It says so in his tech specs (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__VS-S1_(Optimus_Primal).jpg) (sorry, can't find an English translation atm - but the first sentence says that he was "the famous tractor trailer truck called Optimus Prime"). You guys can make up whatever alternate fan theories if you want, but that's the official story.

[Verno]

This gives me a vision of Optimus Prime, strung up deep in the dark centre of Cybertron like the Queen in Aliens, laying new Protoforms from the back of his trailer. :eek:

I meant more along the lines that he passed into Vector Sigma, like Alpha Trion did, not merged with it.

That is a horrific image though :p


Optimus Prime was reformatted as a Maximal known as Convobat. It says so in his tech specs (sorry, can't find an English translation atm - but the first sentence says that he was "the famous tractor trailer truck called Optimus Prime"). You guys can make up whatever alternate fan theories if you want, but that's the official story.

That's a fate worse than death right there. :p

And that's only in one of the miriad universes. Live a little Gok, voice an opinion or theory, this is a discussion of ideas, not canon.

[Bartrim]

Optimus Prime was reformatted as a Maximal known as Convobat (http://www.cliffbee.com/reviews/convobat.php). It says so in his tech specs (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__VS-S1_(Optimus_Primal).jpg) (sorry, can't find an English translation atm - but the first sentence says that he was "the famous tractor trailer truck called Optimus Prime"). You guys can make up whatever alternate fan theories if you want, but that's the official story.

Uh huh and how reliable and trustworthy is this cliffbee fellow;):p

[1orion2many]

Uh huh and how reliable and trustworthy is this cliffbee fellow;):p

I heard he was a bit dodgey:D

[1orion2many]

To me, Prime was created to battle Megatron and lead the Autobots to victory. He's done that, and ushered in a new era of Peace, so it's job well done. And after 4 millions years of fighting, I'd want a breather too.

(I really hate the Transformers timescale by the way, it's ridiculous)

Originally he wasn't a Warrior, I'm sure he could adjust to mainstream life and settle down with his G1 counter part(can't remember her name Starfire:confused::o)

[GoktimusPrime]

Live a little Gok, voice an opinion or theory, this is a discussion of ideas, not canon.

Okay, opinion: I don't like fan theories that conflict, contradict or completely disregard official canon. I prefer those that can work within existing canon because it makes them more "believable" to me. It's like say science fiction elements which don't directly contradict reality, like Dark of the Moon's explanation for the Moon mission. That's a cool sub-plot because it actually matches historical events and "makes sense" within itself... as opposed to say Spider-man 2's premise of Doc Ock creating nuclear fission with a single atom of tritium -- which is just downright impossible. <---Just my opinion

Hence I just sit out of any discussion about canon which conflicts or contradicts official canon. I'm not discouraging anyone from having such discussions (although perhaps it might be better suited to be posted in Grapples Creative section?) -- you're more than welcome to have them -- but I personally have no interest in it, so I choose to sit out of them. In answer to the question of what happened to Optimus Prime after the Great War... well, the official answer is that he was reformatted as a Maximal. I mentioned this in response to the following comments in Post #1:


but by the time we get around to Beast Wars, we can assume that Optimus Prime isn't around.

So where is he and what happened to him?
Assume no more. We know that he is around.


We have to delve into the realms of the non-canonical and conjecture.
You don't have to because a canonical explanation already exists (you may create alternative non-canonical explanations if you want, but I wouldn't say we "have" to). :)

[Verno]

So he was Convobat, but also:

Taken from TF Wiki, in regards to the 3H Comics:


After the Great War, Optimus Prime disappeared with other legends into the mysterious location on Cybertron dubbed J'nwan. When the warlord Shokaract, powered by Unicron's Dark Essence, traveled into the past to secure his own future, a Predacon named Sandstorm traversed the confusing mists of J'nwan to seek out its occupants to help. Sandstorm prevailed and brought Optimus, Megatron, Soundwave, and Grimlock with him to prehistoric Earth during the time of the Beast Wars where a battle with Shokaract had already begun. When Sandstorm (secretly Scorpius) and the rest of the Covenant arrived to vanquish the Dark Essence and defeat Shokaract, Optimus Prime and the others escaped through portals as that timeline was paradoxed from existence.

Through a Portal? He could be anywhere!

[Hursticon]

after a life time of war.. i imagine it would of been hard for some autobots to readjust... i do see prime handing over leadership but then i see him boarding a space cruiser with a few other bots... lets say Jazz, Grimlock and the dinobots and a few others and ventures off into space looking to round up the last of the decepticon element on the outer reaches of space... or any fight they find along the way.. prime couldnt rest without knowing that the entire universe was free of the decepticon/cybertronian menaces...

Primes out there. telling stories to the dinobots and dishing justice out galaxy wide..

I like this idea, Optimus sort of obtaining Kup's role though a little more active than the old-timer - It gives him a purpose without him being front and center all the time, a retired heavy gun that is otherwise no longer needed and to entertain his time he goes off on wild adventures. :D


This gives me a vision of Optimus Prime, strung up deep in the dark centre of Cybertron like the Queen in Aliens, laying new Protoforms from the back of his trailer. :eek:


That is a horrific image though :p

Though a horrendously funny one!

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Webpics/th_lol.gif (http://s1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Webpics/?action=view&current=lol.gif)


Originally he wasn't a Warrior, I'm sure he could adjust to mainstream life and settle down with his G1 counter part(can't remember her name Starfire:confused::o)

This has intriguing narrative possibilities too, Fembot and Kidbot's daily struggle with PTS-Optimus. :p:D


Through a Portal? He could be anywhere!

Yeah, with the amount of Universal loose ends on this guy it could actually be here for longer than 5 minutes :p:

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Webpics/5522604_std.jpg


...That, or he spiralled into another universe and ended up as this guy :D:

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Webpics/128997229307672559.jpg

[loophole]

probably dead after a big battle that ended all battles

[Lord_Zed]

Optimus Prime was reformatted as a Maximal known as Convobat (http://www.cliffbee.com/reviews/convobat.php). It says so in his tech specs (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__VS-S1_(Optimus_Primal).jpg) (sorry, can't find an English translation atm - but the first sentence says that he was "the famous tractor trailer truck called Optimus Prime"). You guys can make up whatever alternate fan theories if you want, but that's the official story.

Yep Optimus must fight eternally to generate money for Hasbro. Poor guy, at least Rodimus and the others get days of.

[GoktimusPrime]

So he was Convobat, but also:

Taken from TF Wiki, in regards to the 3H Comics:

Okay, but remember that the whole Shokaract story arc occurred between and beyond several dimensions beyond time and space -- and ultimately the plane of existence where everything came together ultimately collapsed anyway... the Shokaract who was empowered by the Matrix of Conquest and yada yada yada ceased to exist (and instead we see a Shokaract in a parallel universe failing to make contact with Unicron's Dark Essence).

Also, the Optimus Prime who appeared in "Reaching the Omega Point" was plucked from J'nwan - a reality "beyond" or "outside" realities... so who knows which dimension (not to mention point in time and space) that Optimus Prime might have originated from. He may or may not be the same Optimus Prime who exists in Beast Wars as Convobat.

In any case, you also provided another answer to your initial question -- evidently some time after the Great War (possibly after the events of the Beast Era), Optimus Prime ended up in J'nwan. :)


Through a Portal? He could be anywhere!
Let's say he ended up in Eternia and accidentally stepped on Orko... ;)

[Hursticon]

Okay, but remember that the whole Shokaract story arc occurred between and beyond several dimensions beyond time and space -- and ultimately the plane of existence where everything came together ultimately collapsed anyway... the Shokaract who was empowered by the Matrix of Conquest and yada yada yada ceased to exist (and instead we see a Shokaract in a parallel universe failing to make contact with Unicron's Dark Essence).

Also, the Optimus Prime who appeared in "Reaching the Omega Point" was plucked from J'nwan - a reality "beyond" or "outside" realities... so who knows which dimension (not to mention point in time and space) that Optimus Prime might have originated from. He may or may not be the same Optimus Prime who exists in Beast Wars as Convobat.

In any case, you also provided another answer to your initial question -- evidently some time after the Great War (possibly after the events of the Beast Era), Optimus Prime ended up in J'nwan. :)

Let's say he ended up in Eternia and accidentally stepped on Orko... ;)

Wow! :rolleyes:, now I can see why Hasbro wants to move the franchise forward with rebuilding/recreating the TF Universe/Back Story, this Alternate Dimensional Time Travel crap is just ridiculous. :p:D

Honestly Gok; how anyone less versed in the lore than yourself could ever hope to properly grasp everything it contains, thus far, is beyond me. ;):)

[Quickstrike]

I accept the idea that Convobat is G1 Prime about as much as I accept that the original Optimus Primal toys (Bat and Gorilla) are G1 Prime. So, not at all.

[Verno]

I accept the idea that Convobat is G1 Prime about as much as I accept that the original Optimus Primal toys (Bat and Gorilla) are G1 Prime. So, not at all.

+1 :cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

I accept the idea that Convobat is G1 Prime about as much as I accept that the original Optimus Primal toys (Bat and Gorilla) are G1 Prime. So, not at all.

Erm, but officially this isn't the case because unlike the original Optimus Primal toy specs as Optimus Prime, the Convobat profile:

a/ Was written after the cartoon was written (whereas the Optimus Primal original tech specs were written before), and thus...

b/ Have not been retconned as being non-canonical. We know that toy bios written after the cartoon followed cartoon continuity, and thus bios for subsequent Optimus Primal toys were written portraying Primal not as being Optimus Prime.

c/ Convobat was explicitly written to be G1 Optimus Prime whereas Convoy (Optimus Primal) was written to not be Optimus Prime. Because the Convobat (and Megalligator) profile was written after the advent of the cartoon, Takara knew that Convoy would not be Optimus Prime; and so they intentionally wrote Convobat as a separate character from Convoy and portrayed him as Optimus Prime with Convoy as Optimus Primal.

So I don't find this to be a reasonable comparison -- while it's true that the early Optimus Primal tech specs (and indeed pre-show Beast Wars continuity itself) portrayed Optimus Primal as Optimus Prime, it occurred under completely different circumstances from Convobat.

I can accept that Optimus Primal isn't Optimus Prime, because of canonical retcon. There has been no such retcon for Convobat AFAIK.

[Paulbot]

I accept the idea that Convobat is G1 Prime about as much as I accept that the original Optimus Primal toys (Bat and Gorilla) are G1 Prime. So, not at all.

Remember anything that is true in Japan is true for Japan, but Western Beast Wars continuity doesn't = Japanese Beast Wars continuity.

And Fan convention stories, whoever wrote them, are pretty much fan fiction, as they are fiction for fans.

I tend to think of Prime and most G1 characters as dead by the Beast Era personally, and that Cybertron has moved on from the days of the archaic Energon guzzlers.

[GoktimusPrime]

Remember anything that is true in Japan is true for Japan, but Western Beast Wars continuity doesn't = Japanese Beast Wars continuity.
Yeah... kinda.

The Japanese Beast Wars continuity is intended to be part of Anglophone BW continuity -- much like how say UK G1 comic continuity was intended to be part of US G1 continuity.

Technically it could be argued that they are separate continuities - indeed Marvel officially classifies two G1 universes; we have Earth-91274 which is where everything in the US comics occurs, and we also have Earth-120185 which is where the UK comics are set, i.e. it's the same as Earth-91274 only with additional events like Target: 2006 and the Time Wars... so one could argue that these events only occurred on Earth-120185 and not on Earth-91274.

Now the problem with this is that at some events that occurred on Earth-91274 is dependent/reliant on events that occurred on Earth-120185. Take the Matrix Quest for example... that event could not have occurred the way it did if not for the Autobots having ejected Optimus Prime's body into space in a funeral barge (later discovered on Cameron's third moon of VsQs), as well as the whole Deathbringer story arc. Both of these events occurred in the UK comics but not in the US comics, but the US comics do flashback to them, and indeed Optimus Prime's body was still in the funeral barge when it was discovered by scientists from Cameron Space Control. And of course, the Matrix's prior contact with Deathbringer gave it its first taste for destruction -- which led it to want to experience it even more, thus the whole Matrix-Spawn, Thunderwing thingamajiggy. All key events that occurred in the US comics that relied on events from the UK comics.

At best I guess it could be argued that Earth-91274 is the universe where everything in the US comics happened plus some events from the UK comics... and Earth-120185 us a close parallel universe where the same things happened, plus additional events that may not have happened on Earth-91274. So IMHO JP and Anglophone BW continuities are kinda like comparing these two Earths.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/inifiniteearths.gif "Too... many... Earths!"


And Fan convention stories, whoever wrote them, are pretty much fan fiction, as they are fiction for fans.
Aren't the BotCon comics printed with permission from Hasbro though? If so, then that lends them official currency as far as continuity's concern (regardless of whether people may consider the writing quality to be on par with fan fics or not). :confused:

[Paulbot]

Unless you consider Beast Wars a contiutation of the comic universe (I do, but it's debatable) its off topic.

There are parallels between Beast Wars Japan and Beast Wars English, they are closely parallel but they are not identical. If you can't watch or read it in English (how many times, we don't speak Spanish) it's doesn't count.

One of the stories quoted above wasfrom the UK convention. Don't know how closely Hasbro looked at that. They may look closer at the BotCon stuff nowadays but a decade ago? There's a point where "facts" from obscure comics of a couple thousand print run for hardcore fans and never intended to be seen by the mass audience can easily be waved away and discussions of what we might think is better fitting are valid.


Take the Matrix Quest for example... that event could not have occurred the way it did if not for the Autobots having ejected Optimus Prime's body into space in a funeral barge (later discovered on Cameron's third moon of VsQs), ... Both of these events occurred in the UK comics but not in the US comics.
Also reread TFUS #26 and GIJoe vs Transformers #3. Both stories have Optimus Prime's body blasted into space in a funeral barge. They were aiming at the sun, but still.

[liegeprime]

Well, I for one saw Optimus Prime during beast wars.... he was in the ark with Megatron trying to murder him... so there hehehehe:D okay okay so they went back in time but still he was there

and as for Rodimus, that good for nothing leader as far as I know, went "away" on self exile with kup in tow and didn't even bother to hand over the matrix for pete's sake! How Selfish! good thing the next autobot leaders didnt need the Matrix and were quite powerful and deadly on their own - Dai "killer" Atlas for example.

[Verno]

Whether Prime could enjoy the peace is an interesting question.

Orion Pax (or Optronix or whoever he was) was the Account Receivable Clerk or whatnot, or happened to get shot, then rebuilt, reprogrammed and given the Matrix by Alpha Trion and became Optimus Prime, a leader. I'd say whoever Orion Pax was is gone, and only the driven leader remains.

He was built to serve, and built for a purpose. Once that purpose is served, he has two options in my opinion, and neither is enjoying the peace on the planet.

1. Go on the mission Sharky described, and round up any stragglers who could cause trouble in the future. Basically, he keeps fighting.

2. Return to the Matrix, and be at peace after a long battle, knowing his job is done.

I don't think he'd wander down the streets high-5'ing Maximals for the rest of his days.

[GoktimusPrime]

and as for Rodimus, that good for nothing leader as far as I know, went "away" on self exile with kup in tow and didn't even bother to hand over the matrix for pete's sake! How Selfish! good thing the next autobot leaders didnt need the Matrix and were quite powerful and deadly on their own - Dai "killer" Atlas for example.
Rodimus was the leader of the Autobots at the end of the Great War, not Optimus. So Optimus must have stepped down for whatever reason (maybe he was off on some idealistic crusade :p) and Rodimus became the leader. It was under Rodimus' leadership that the Autobots won the Great War and the Pax Cybertronia treaty was signed. Rodimus also paved the way for the Maximal Upgrade and was one of the first to have himself downsized (indeed the last G1 toy of Hot Rod was a Micromaster!). Rodimus would later become a member of the new Wreckers during the Beast Machines era.


Unless you consider Beast Wars a contiutation of the comic universe (I do, but it's debatable) its off topic.
I personally consider the comic universe out-of-continuity... too many conflicts with the Japanese cartoons. Unless you see the comics as rendering the Japanese cartoons out-of-continuity... depends on a certain point of view... ;)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/certainpov.jpg


There are parallels between Beast Wars Japan and Beast Wars English, they are closely parallel but they are not identical. If you can't watch or read it in English (how many times, we don't speak Spanish) it's doesn't count.
I don't think it's accurate to say that simply because a story is in a language that one doesn't understand, therefore it's rendered non-canonical. I can understand that it may be inaccessible to audiences who don't speak that language, but I don't think it means it's non-canonical per se.


One of the stories quoted above wasfrom the UK convention. Don't know how closely Hasbro looked at that. They may look closer at the BotCon stuff nowadays but a decade ago? There's a point where "facts" from obscure comics of a couple thousand print run for hardcore fans and never intended to be seen by the mass audience can easily be waved away and discussions of what we might think is better fitting are valid.
I personally believe that technically whatever the latest officially approved explanation is, remains the "official" explanation and supercedes any contradictory fanon. I can accept that there are points of official canon which remains debatable (e.g. Beast Wars anime v. comics - since both are official sources even if contradictory) -- but up against an unauthorised conflicting source of canon, I'm going to disregard the unofficial source.

I can personally accept unofficial fansplanations if they don't conflict with official canon. For example, in Ichikawa Hirofumi's unofficial "Cybertron Chronicles" comic, it's explained that Chip Chase's real name is Christopher Chase and that "Chip" is a nickname. There's nothing in official canon to even remotely confirm this, but there's nothing in it to deny it either -- so I can accept it. And honestly I consider the best fan works to be the ones that work with official canon, and not against it. <---JMHO


Also reread TFUS #26 and GIJoe vs Transformers #3. Both stories have Optimus Prime's body blasted into space in a funeral barge. They were aiming at the sun, but still.
Heh, I was actually re-reading Reaching The Omega Point last night after posting on this thread. :D I'll get around to re-reading those issues later. :)


Orion Pax (or Optronix or whoever he was) was the Account Receivable Clerk or whatnot,
Dock worker. ;)


or happened to get shot, then rebuilt, reprogrammed and given the Matrix by Alpha Trion and became Optimus Prime, a leader. I'd say whoever Orion Pax was is gone, and only the driven leader remains.
As so often happened in G1. There's no need to write character development -- this Cosmic MacGuffin will change you to a completely different person! Abra-cadabra!! :p I prefer Beast Wars where characters like Cheetor evolved into who he was at the end of Beast Machines -- maturing through experience and learning rather than some magic bauble.


He was built to serve, and built for a purpose. Once that purpose is served, he has two options in my opinion, and neither is enjoying the peace on the planet.
In the Marvel G1 comics he never started off as a civilian like in the cartoon - he was always a soldier. And in fact was the first military leader to assume supreme executive command of the Autobots. So what does a robot who was built for war do during peace time?

Perhaps he did find a purpose... maybe that's what he did at the end of the Great War... defeated the Decepticons, and all that was left was to do the diplomacy -- get the Pax Cybertronian drafted and signed etc., but he didn't want to do it so he passed the reigns onto Rodimus and appointed him to lead the Cybertronians into a new age of peace and happiness, while he stepped down from his role as leader to pursue his new role as Pepsi Convoy... delivering the taste (and kilojoules) of a new generation. ;)


1. Go on the mission Sharky described, and round up any stragglers who could cause trouble in the future. Basically, he keeps fighting.
Or delivering Pepsi. ;)


2. Return to the Matrix, and be at peace after a long battle, knowing his job is done.
That's kinda sad. It's almost like he can have no life after the fighting's done. :( One of my friends reckons that was the reason why Peter Jackson omitted the Scouring of the Shire from Return of the King -- as freakin' awesome as that story is (Hobbits fighting against Uruks in guerilla warfare?! YEAH!!!) -- there's the argument that cinema audiences might have felt that Frodo's entire quest was to save the Shire... he saw it being razed in Galadriel's water bowl, and was told that should he fail then this would be the fate of the Shire. Of course, in the books Frodo (or well, Gollum) succeeds in destroying the Ring, but the Shire is still destroyed (and the surviving Hobbits enslaved); while it's a great story, I guess a lot of movie goers might watch that and think, "Well what was the point of Frodo's quest if the Shire wasn't spared..."


I don't think he'd wander down the streets high-5'ing Maximals for the rest of his days.
I'd actually like to see him do that! Strongbad style! :D

"Ladies make a line to the left for kisses. Dudes make a line to the right for high-fives."
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/noddss/Icons/Cookies/avatar_strong_bad.png

[Verno]

Rodimus was the leader of the Autobots at the end of the Great War, not Optimus. So Optimus must have stepped down for whatever reason (maybe he was off on some idealistic crusade :p) and Rodimus became the leader. It was under Rodimus' leadership that the Autobots won the Great War and the Pax Cybertronia treaty was signed. Rodimus also paved the way for the Maximal Upgrade and was one of the first to have himself downsized (indeed the last G1 toy of Hot Rod was a Micromaster!). Rodimus would later become a member of the new Wreckers during the Beast Machines era.

Can you point me in the direction of which universe/story that happened? Cheers.

[dirge]

Uh huh and how reliable and trustworthy is this cliffbee fellow;):p


I heard he was a bit dodgey:D

Cliffbee (http://www.cliffbee.com/minicars.htm)? More than a bit dodgy. But the guy running the website is okay :D

As for where Prime is? IMO he's likely "retired" to be an everyday Maximal... living more or less anonymously on Cybertron. He's too (historically) prominent to not be referenced by the Maximals if he's still around as Optimus Prime.

[GoktimusPrime]

Can you point me in the direction of which universe/story that happened? Cheers.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hot_Rod_%28G1%29#Universe:_Featuring_the_Wreckers

[Verno]

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hot_Rod_%28G1%29#Universe:_Featuring_the_Wreckers

They don't skimp on the details huh.
After the Great Wars ended and the Pax Cybertronia was signed, he changed his name to simply "Rodimus" and decided to check out the new "Maximal Upgrade".

Full of detail... :(

[GoktimusPrime]

There are reference links there you can click on to read a more detailed synopsis about each individual issue. You can also read the issues online at 3H's web site (the link is provided at the bottom of the synopsis page).
http://www.botcon.com/archive/story/2001/index.html

[Quickstrike]

They don't skimp on the details huh.

Full of detail... :(

That's basically all the comic says. Edit: Didn't notice the post above me. You can read the comic yourself.

Man, I thought that comic was pretty good ten years ago. :confused:


Double Edit: Back to Convobat for a second. Everything I had read about him implied that he was released in that same period where Beast Wars hadn't quite established it's own identity yet. The wiki sort of backs me up:


Just what character this toy represents is up for debate. The toy's bio claims he used to turn into a tractor-trailer (indicating Optimus Prime), but considering the timeframe of when they were written and the whole lack of a stance on who Primal "was" before the show and bla bla bla... it's just easier to file this under the same iffiness as the original toy bios set on modern Earth and leave it at that.

But whatever.

[theheretic]

-So I can lay all my blame on to Rodimus for down grading the Transformers? What a jerk!

-Transformers lore/canon is crazy contradicting. I can really see why there's a push to restart with a new continuity. And WFC, FOC is a great start. Although they are already messing with it by putting TF Prime in the mix too.

-Is Convobat really Optimus Prime, or does he just tell people he was Optimus? Because I know this girl who says she was Cleopatra. I just can't see Optimus giving himself up to be reformatted

[Hursticon]

-Is Convobat really Optimus Prime, or does he just tell people he was Optimus? Because I know this girl who says she was Cleopatra. I just can't see Optimus giving himself up to be reformatted

Hehe, I like the idea of some bot running around dressed in a Proto-Primal Bat Chassis calling himself Optimus Prime; sort of like Magnaboss II except this guy actually believes he's the former leader of the Autobots. :p:D
(Magnaboss II simply adopting the name in honour, much like BW Megatron ;):cool:)

[GoktimusPrime]

Double Edit: Back to Convobat for a second. Everything I had read about him implied that he was released in that same period where Beast Wars hadn't quite established it's own identity yet. The wiki sort of backs me up:

But whatever.

...inaccurate.

The reason why the early Hasbro BW bios are different from the cartoon is because they were written before the cartoon came out, and at that time Hasbro (well, Kenner) intended for BW to be a continuation of G1/G2. It wasn't until _after_ Mainframe was commissioned to make the cartoon that the creators decided to change the story to what we are more familiar with today (e.g. establishing Optimus Primal as a separate character).

Takara on the other hand released Beast Wars a year later... by this time the cartoon had already been produced and Takara had the advantage of being able to make their BW toy line fit the cartoon. This is why:

+ Even Takara's early BW toy package/tech specs art is more show-like and less toy-accurate. They also had screen caps of their beast modes.
e.g.: Convoy (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__C-1_%28Optimus_Primal%29.jpg) (note the "mouth" on the robot art), Tigatron (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__C-8_%28Tigatron%29.jpg) etc.
+ Every early Takara BW toy package had a sticker advertising the cartoon as "world's first 100% CG transforming robot animation" (http://www.toyhell.com/images/bwrhinox.jpg)
+ Some toys featured a more show-like colour scheme, e.g. Blackarachnia (http://webspace.webring.com/people/ao/optimus7/BlackarachniaJ.jpg), Tigatron (http://di1-4.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/7a/e5/61/109053070-260x260-0-0_hasbro+transformers+beast+wars+japan+c+8+tigatro n+.jpg) etc.
+ The tech specs for Convoy (Optimus Primal) and Megatron don't make any allusions to them being their G1 namesakes (unlike Hasbro's)
+ The tech specs for Convobat and Megalligator DO explicitly state that they are G1 Convoy & Megatron.
+ The first JP BW catalogue has screen caps from the cartoon
+ Convobat & Megalligator both came packaged with an exclusive CD-ROM which shows clips from the cartoon

So whereas Hasbro's early BW came out _before_ the cartoon, Takara's BW started _after_ the cartoon... so trying to compare them like that is like apples and oranges...


-So I can lay all my blame on to Rodimus for down grading the Transformers? What a jerk!
Well, it started long before him. Remember in G1 Transformers were already downsizing themselves as Micromasters to conserve Energon. The Maximal Upgrade was the next phase.

Another reason why it was done from a story telling POV is because the BW writers wanted to make the G1 Transformers look like godlike titans compared to BW Transformers. Also a Freightliner semi-truck would be way huger than a silverback gorilla. ;)



-Is Convobat really Optimus Prime, or does he just tell people he was Optimus? Because I know this girl who says she was Cleopatra.
As I said back in post #6, Convobat's tech specs (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__VS-S1_%28Optimus_Primal%29.jpg) says that he is G1 Optimus Prime (and likewise Megalligator's tech specs states that he's Megatron).

The first sentence of Convobat's tech specs states:
"コンボイ司令官といえば、一般的にトレーラートラックが有名。"
Which means, "Commander Optimus Prime is generally known for being a semi-truck. (the rest of the tech specs bio talks about how he's now a bat) -- likewise Megalligator's tech specs also starts off saying that he was once a Walther P-38 gun but now he's a croc/alligator (the Japanese word ワニ refers to any kind of crocodilia and doesn't specify if it's a croc, gator, caiman etc.)


I just can't see Optimus giving himself up to be reformatted
I don't see why not. When it comes to Optimuses and reformatting their bodies... well, remember when Optimus Primal became Optimal Optimus, and Cheetor says, "Wow, Optimus sure gets used to a new body fast!" -- Rattrap replies, "Eh whaddaya expect, he changes them often enough!" <rimshot> :D

Throughout G1 Optimus Prime underwent changes to his body such as (yes, I know I'm blending different continuities here too - BW follows on from a blended G1 continuity anyway):
+ Orion Pax (http://www.ticobot.com/orionpax.jpg) -> Optimus Prime (Cybertronian)
+ 1st Cybertronian mode (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/8/87/Optimusprimeg1preearthmarvel2.jpg) to 2nd Cybertronian mode (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/a/a2/Optimusprimeg1marvelfirst.jpg)
+ 2nd Cybertronian mode to Earth mode (1st) (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/d/db/CommandPerformances-Autobotsattack.jpg)
+ change to Powermaster (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/1/13/TimeWars-OptimusPrimeentersthefray.jpg)
+ change to Action Master (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/9/94/EndOfTheRoad-itcanitis.jpg)
+ change to Star Convoy (w/ Micromaster Hot Rod!) (http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/manwood/484/TF/Figures/StarConvoy3.jpg)
+ change to 1st G2 (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/8/82/Optimusprime-g2.jpg)
+ change to Hero (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/7/70/G2Hero.jpg)
+ change to Laser Rod (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e7/G2toy_laser_optimus_prime.jpg)
+ change to Go-Bot (http://www.tfu.info/1995/Autobot/OptimusPrimeGobot/optimusprime.htm)
+ change to Machine Wars (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/143/3/4/machine_wars_optimus_prime_by_gryphman-d3h2idb.jpg)
...etc.

So I don't think it's that much of a stretch for him to then change to Convobat after that IMO.

[Verno]

The problem I have with Convobat being Prime is that the "Maximal Upgrade" had nothing to do with the adoption of a 'Beast' mode - it was the adoption of a smaller, efficient, Proto-Matter body.

Transformers were still machines and robots. BW:Gathering and Ascending depicts Cybertron covered with robots - cars and motorbikes and such, not animals with fur and hair and scales.

So Convobat coming out of the upgrade as a fleshy Bat is debatable.

[Paulbot]

So Convobat coming out of the upgrade only in Japan as a fleshy Bat is debatable.

Fixed?

[Verno]

Fixed?

Hahaha, who knows. That's the joy of hypertheticals.

[GoktimusPrime]

The problem I have with Convobat being Prime is that the "Maximal Upgrade" had nothing to do with the adoption of a 'Beast' mode - it was the adoption of a smaller, efficient, Proto-Matter body.

Transformers were still machines and robots. BW:Gathering and Ascending depicts Cybertron covered with robots - cars and motorbikes and such, not animals with fur and hair and scales.

So Convobat coming out of the upgrade as a fleshy Bat is debatable.

There's nothing to say that Convobat wasn't already a non-beast moded Maximal before becoming a bat. He could have still transformed into a Micromaster sized truck (like say Powertrain) back on Cybertron before adopting his batty beast mode on prehistoric Earth.

It's possible that in toy continuity Convobat remained on Cybertron and never acquired a beast mode whereas in toy continuity he did. It wouldn't be the first time it's happened... look at Cicadacon, Ram Horn and Sea Clamp (Tripredacus Council) -- their toys all have beast modes yet in the cartoon they never went to Earth or acquired beast modes. I think it's accepted that Tripredacus never had beast modes in the cartoon, but did in the toy continuity (and possible other parallel universes) -- the same could easily apply for Convobat.

[Quickstrike]

Hehe, I like the idea of some bot running around dressed in a Proto-Primal Bat Chassis calling himself Optimus Prime; sort of like Magnaboss II except this guy actually believes he's the former leader of the Autobots. :p:D
(Magnaboss II simply adopting the name in honour, much like BW Megatron ;):cool:)

Obviously, Convobat suffers from Primus Apothesois. (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primus_apotheosis)

[Hursticon]

Obviously, Convobat suffers from Primus Apothesois. (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primus_apotheosis)

:D

[GoktimusPrime]

That's what they said about Hi-Q... even locked him up in solitary thinking he'd gone cuckoo... and look how that turned out (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/d/df/Hiqprimemerge.jpg) ;) :p

[liegeprime]

That's what they said about Hi-Q... even locked him up in solitary thinking he'd gone cuckoo... and look how that turned out (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/d/df/Hiqprimemerge.jpg) ;) :p

Yeah so when you think about it more closely there's this rotting organic matter inside Optimus Prime years later down the line... eeeew Prime must stink then, heheheh:p:p:p good thing Hi Q isnt claustrophobic coz being locked inside a robot with all those wires and plates coming at you like that, that's a nightmare, kinda reminds me of that scene in Superman #3(?) - against a supercomputer where the Supercomputer transforms Vera (one of the villains) into this Android/cyborg by absorbing her and putting chips and wires into her .....very creepy...creeped me out when I was a kid.

[bowspearer]

The actual initial question is actually kind of fallacious as it really should be "Where is Prime in each continuity?"

The problem is that the moment you look at one continuity, the answer completely changes.

Certainly the Japanese Convobat is G1 Prime, however the US version clearly suffers from "Prime Apotheosis" as the Tech spec for Primal states that the Primal (ape) is an upgrade of Primal (bat) if you take Primal (ape) as a different character to G1 Prime.

Of course this presumes that the US toy continuity and the cartoon continuity are identical when they are not. The Tarrantulas in the Toyline is different to the one in the show- much in the same way that trademark circumvention resulted in Jetfire never appearing in the Cartoon and Skyfire never getting a toy with the exception of a one off Custom (ultimately they had different bodies, different profiles and different names). Therefore it is entirely possible that in the Tech Spec continuity in the US, Convobat and Primal are the both their respective G1 namesakes.

Furthermore, IIRC, the Beast Wars US Cartoon is a continuation of the Marvel G2 comic (eg the Vok being the Swarm, etc) rather than the G1 Cartoon, making that a completely the two exist in alternate realities.

Therefore Convobat and US Cartoon continuity Optimus Primal exist in alternate realities, where in the US Cartoon.

But then considering that Convoy and Optimus Prime exist in alternate realities as of TF:TM (the Japanese and US versions take place in different years), or even Scramble City for that matter, this is hardly surprising.

In the US continuity, Prime never became Star Convoy.

In the Japanese continuity, Convoy never became a Power Master (Ginrai was a different character to Convoy) or an Action Master.

Then you have the Manga, the Marvel US comic and the Marvel UK comic (which is meant to fit into the US continuity but doesn't).

They say a picture speaks a thousand words. Well, to quote Gok, I think this is the most accurate answer to the question:



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/inifiniteearths.gif

[Verno]

If you don't mind! (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/488073-optimus-prime-during-beast-era.html)

I started the discussion first, champ.

[bowspearer]

When you copyright and trademark it, I'll keep that in mind ;)

[Hursticon]

If you don't mind! (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/488073-optimus-prime-during-beast-era.html)

I started the discussion first, champ.

You're a trend setter man. :p:D

[bowspearer]

You're a trend setter man. :p:D

Hmm, do we all chip in for a medal for him? I'm thinking the chocolate kind :p