Hasbro product and ratio release issues

[bowspearer]

hasbro australia really needs to get its sh-t together, sure we got jetwing prime but that doesn't mean it can ignore getting us the rest of the toyline.

Never going to happen- they're greedy to the point where they get stupid. If they were smart about it, they'd slightly understock the early waves to generate demand and leave room for later waves of stuff- especially when like with the movie line, Hasbro International leaves some of the more desirable stuff til the later part of the line.

I'm not sure of the problem is idiot retail buyers or an idiot Hasbro Australia Product Manager who just don't get the line at all. It's not like it's a minor or "young" toyline either so there's really no excuse for Hasbro and Australian retailers getting it so wrong for so long.

Alternately, perhaps the problem is that we actually have waves of figures where they double or even triple-pack certain figures....

[griffin]

It isn't correct (or fair) to call Hasbro greedy (or calling their product manager an idiot), as they are conducting business like any other in a capitalist environment. Their priority is to make money. Profit may be classed by some as greed, but if they weren't making a profit, they would be out of business, and we wouldn't have Transformers toys at all.

You need to attend the annual Toyfair to get an idea of how the distributor-retailer relationship works, and how retailers lock themselves into minimum stock quantities for the next 6-12 months, based on what *they* think kids & parents will like.
Retailers maybe need to do their own research or test-drive the products with kids first instead of being lazy and just relying on what the Distributors tell them will be popular.
The local branches of international toy distributors have their hands tied by what their head offices tell them they have to sell, and at what prices they are stuck with. As such, if retailers can't move stock, the local branch doesn't have much flexibility with prices or product range.
It's easy for us fans to target the local branch with complaints, but the bigger picture has a lot more players involved, and higher priorities than us fans.

[bowspearer]

It isn't correct (or fair) to call Hasbro greedy (or calling their product manager an idiot), as they are conducting business like any other in a capitalist environment. Their priority is to make money. Profit may be classed by some as greed, but if they weren't making a profit, they would be out of business, and we wouldn't have Transformers toys at all.

You need to attend the annual Toyfair to get an idea of how the distributor-retailer relationship works, and how retailers lock themselves into minimum stock quantities for the next 6-12 months, based on what *they* think kids & parents will like.
Retailers maybe need to do their own research or test-drive the products with kids first instead of being lazy and just relying on what the Distributors tell them will be popular.
The local branches of international toy distributors have their hands tied by what their head offices tell them they have to sell, and at what prices they are stuck with. As such, if retailers can't move stock, the local branch doesn't have much flexibility with prices or product range.
It's easy for us fans to target the local branch with complaints, but the bigger picture has a lot more players involved, and higher priorities than us fans.

Griffin, you completely missed the point I was making. Yes businesses are there to make money and no one should begrudge them that, but there is a difference in ensuring long-term profitability over a line and being so focused on wanting to make a quick buck to the point where long term sales in a line suffer.

Yes retailers lock themselves into an agreement, but at the end of the day it's upto the reps and product managers to inform the retailers to make the correct decision- that's the job of the reps, to inform the retailers so that they can make the correct decisions. Anyone who has worked more than 5 minutes in a more specialised form of retail (eg electrical retail) will tell you that that's what the reps are there for.

Retailer buyers aren't going to clog up their shelves with early waves if they know that "hot items" are waiting for them in later waves, so I would immediately question just how good of a job the Hasbro reps have been doing on this front, as this is a problem that has been going on for over a decade now.

If the reps aren't doing their job on that front then the buck for that arguably lies with the product managers.

So again, my point stands. Somewhere in there there, someone is dropping the ball and being so focused on the quick buck that they're harming their long term sales (ie being so greedy that they've gotten stupid about it).

[Hursticon]

I agree Griffin, but surely all parties involved can see that the models they've been pushing for so long aren't working - But in that same sense I guess the fact that they keep doing it must mean that it is working? :confused:
All I know is that one can always see mass amounts of shelf-warming, over inflated prices and missed opportunities with the brand in this country. :(
(Sure, we get the odd early release or exclusive but as a whole?)

I'm sure that kids nowadays move onto different things far quicker than in the past purely because they get bored with waiting for a new toy from their favourite franchise to show up in stores, but it never arrives and the parents very quickly get bored and fed-up with driving around all over the place looking for something that doesn't exist in this country. :o

Yes we collectors do tend to complain a bit, but I bet you there are quite a number of parents that feel not all too dissimilar and I feel that with the currently poor stocking tactics of Aussie Retail and it's Distributors, this could have a bad effect on the franchise's continued and sustained popularity. :(

Personally, I think the best thing we could do is educate as many people and parents as possible as to the far superior benefits of shopping and purchasing online, maybe and it's a big maybe, with enough business moving away from Brick and Mortars towards Online Sources the 'Old Guard' might eventually get it into their heads to start rethinking their approaches. ;)

Being big Aussie Retail though, they'd more likely sell themselves off to Overseas owners or simply go into receivership before changing their ways. :rolleyes:


*Main point: I want my bloody Soundwave figures! :p

[griffin]

As for the over-balanced assortment ratios - that's also Hasbro America's fault... and their major retailers (like Walmart) who dictate assortments.

Take a poll of regular parents or kids, or even collectors, as to which character they would buy first if they could only buy one toy (which is usually the limit of most kids & parents' budgets)... and I'd be imagining that over half would be prioritising Optimus or Bumblebee first because they are the main characters of the movie. Hasbro market research would have ascertained the same purchasing priorities with each movie, but perhaps failed to take into account that most people interested in TF3 were customers since TF2, so already had the main characters.

[bowspearer]

All I know is that one can always see mass amounts of shelf-warming

This was largely what I was getting at. The problem has been for years that the shelves have been swamped with initial waves and by the time everyone catches up, it's 4 or 5 waves later, meaning that countless sales get lost because items simply never materialise here.

The only thing that flooding the shelves results in is shelf-warmed toys that need to be sold at a drop in profits, and missed opportunities with high ticket items.

Retail buyers aren't stupid, and having worked under a former one in the past when I used to work at Bing Lee (he moved over into buying himself a few franchises instead), I can say that the good ones are pretty saavy.

Their job is to ensure that they're getting the stock in at the right levels to maximise profits.

The people they rely on for that info largely are product reps and product managers for the suppliers (whose job it is to push their products).

So again, if buyers are making poor choices, then the question needs to be asked about the quality of advice they're getting.


As for the over-balanced assortment ratios - that's also Hasbro America's fault... and their major retailers (like Walmart) who dictate assortments.

Which again is where the reps come in. They should be advising retailers of just where the overrings are and advising case assortments, as it beats the alternative which is offering rebates on figures when they go on clearance because they've been shelfwarming.

[kaiden]

the upcoming case assortment for TF Prime is silly especially with Voyager Prime x3 and Bulkhead x1.

[Hursticon]

the upcoming case assortment for TF Prime is silly especially with Voyager Prime x3 and Bulkhead x1.

LOL, yep totally agree but I've already vented my frustrations over that in the relevant thread :p; ridiculous huh? :rolleyes:

[griffin]

I don't see that as silly. What character would most kids or parents buy if they could only afford one Voyager toy - The main character (Optimus), or a character that is about the 5th or 6th most featured character (Bulkhead)?
Serious collectors like us may buy both, or critically evaluate both before buying either, but we make up like 10% of those purchases... leaving up to 90% of Voyager purchases to kids & parents who only buy one toy.
If Hasbro had equal case ratios for toys that are not equally featured on the cartoon, they risk shelf-warming the less popular character toys. I don't think they just randomly generate those ratios - they'd do some polling first I'd imagine, or at least order the importance of the show characters (and non-show characters) and estimate the best ratio possible to minimise shelf-warming.
(and the problem with the larger toy sizes is that there are less figures to a case, so less room to move on ratios - 3:1 may seem over-balanced, but 2:2 would be out of the question for two mismatched characters)

[Hursticon]

Hmm, you make a fair point Griffin but somehow I think we'll end up with the same discussion over the DOTM stock practices happening again - The cycle never breaks! :p:D

This is why I like online retail, the only arguments are scalped pricing and currency values. ;):cool:

[griffin]

It really makes you feel a bit sympathetic towards online retailers, because collectors make up a disproportionately large number of their customers, compared to normal retailers... but they have to get stuck with the over-balanced ratios that are set up for those normal retailers. (hence the price differences between same-size figures at places like BBTS)

The problem with the TF3 Movie stock ratios was that they didn't take into account the availability of those primary characters for the last 4 years. I've overheard a lot of parents and kids in the stores specifically saying that they already have certain characters and were wanting/looking for something else from the movie.
This first assortment of Prime toys will be its first release, so the option of 'already got that character' isn't there to prevent a kid or parent from grabbing the "lead roles" first. Parents who have the slightest knowledge of the brand or the cartoon, will prioritise the characters they know or recognise first... and they are the biggest consumer group for Hasbro to plan ahead for.

[Hursticon]

The problem with the TF3 Movie stock ratios was that they didn't take into account the availability of those primary characters for the last 4 years. I've overheard a lot of parents and kids in the stores specifically saying that they already have certain characters and were wanting/looking for something else from the movie.
This first assortment of Prime toys will be its first release, so the option of 'already got that character' isn't there to prevent a kid or parent from grabbing the "lead roles" first. Parents who have the slightest knowledge of the brand or the cartoon, will prioritise the characters they know or recognise first... and they are the biggest consumer group for Hasbro to plan ahead for.

You're dead right Griffin, you're dead right as I've heard the very same utterings myself (Which has lead to some brief conversations :)) and I think that is exactly what Prime will have going for it, especially in its first release of figures seeing as though the 1st waves seem to be rather tight with characters and classes but also the fact that there are fewer characters should help also - I just hope the lack of Media Support for the line, well to the non-pay T.V. populace at least, doesn't hurt sales locally. :o

Again, one benefit of the internet and online retail. :cool:

[bowspearer]

I don't see that as silly. What character would most kids or parents buy if they could only afford one Voyager toy - The main character (Optimus), or a character that is about the 5th or 6th most featured character (Bulkhead)?
Serious collectors like us may buy both, or critically evaluate both before buying either, but we make up like 10% of those purchases... leaving up to 90% of Voyager purchases to kids & parents who only buy one toy.
If Hasbro had equal case ratios for toys that are not equally featured on the cartoon, they risk shelf-warming the less popular character toys. I don't think they just randomly generate those ratios - they'd do some polling first I'd imagine, or at least order the importance of the show characters (and non-show characters) and estimate the best ratio possible to minimise shelf-warming.
(and the problem with the larger toy sizes is that there are less figures to a case, so less room to move on ratios - 3:1 may seem over-balanced, but 2:2 would be out of the question for two mismatched characters)

Except that the problem there is Griffin, that the Shelves will be clogged up with Wave 1 and by the time they clear out enough for retailers to order a new shipment, you'll be upto Wave 3 or 4.

This has happened in since the 2nd year of BW being out and has been a problem practically every single year since with one wave or another simply not arriving here.

Then you have the other things about Transformers- not every kid is going to automatically want Prime. Look at the way most of us as fans are about our favorite characters and the number of us who decided on that favorite as kids.

Yes Prime is the father figure, but Bulkhead is the "big brother" character of that show. How many kids are going to gravitate towards him.

Heck if it were just about the toys and leader characters, noone would give 2 hoots about Bludgeon, or even Fangry for that matter. It wasn't 20 year olds and 30 year olds who were making either popular at the time either.

This is the problem with Hasbro and retailers though- they simply can't seem to get their heads around the fact that they're not just selling children's playthings, but also pieces of modern mythology due to the nature of toy cartoons.


Parents who have the slightest knowledge of the brand or the cartoon, will prioritise the characters they know or recognise first... and they are the biggest consumer group for Hasbro to plan ahead for.

In cases of parents who are buying for their own children- dead wrong! Parents who are that knowledgeable and are non-fans, are going to be so for one reason- taking an interest in their children's hobbies. So they're not going to be buying lead characters automatically; they're going to buy their child's favorite character.

If a child likes Bulkhead more than Prime, then what is that parent going to do- buy their child's favorite character in this instance, or Prime because he's the lead character?

The moment you deviate away from that to the parent/adult buying for a child of a friend or family member, then they're generally not going to be buying more than a deluxe or a basic sized figure anyway, so really marketing from that dangerous assumption about your core demographic (especially when you start talking about Megas or larger) has the potential to be highly counter-productive.

[griffin]

Except that the problem there is Griffin, that the Shelves will be clogged up with Wave 1 and by the time they clear out enough for retailers to order a new shipment, you'll be upto Wave 3 or 4.

This has happened in since the 2nd year of BW being out and has been a problem practically every single year since with one wave or another simply not arriving here.



I already mentioned the different circumstances causing the current movie series to shelf-warm, but that is the only main-line that has done that on its initial release.
You're hating Hasbro for something that isn't true. You can't claim something has always occurred, when it has only occurred with the current mainline. You either need to show proof on such a wild claim, or first do some research to see if your opinion is even true.
Look through the sightings section, the various checklist/sightings archives and the news emails...

The only lines that had a big initial release that prevented/imited future waves here are - TF3
The lines that didn't shelfwarm enough to prevent future waves here:
TF2 - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
Animated - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
TF1 - first waves sold out so fast, there was a shortage by Christmas and scalpers were making a fortune
Classics - most waves released within a month of global release
Cybertron - all Waves released within a month of global release, and only missed one regular figure
Energon - most Waves released within a month of global release, and didn't miss many figures
Armada - No delays after the first wave, with most figures released here
RiD - Voyager/Mega class was skipped, but no delays after the first wave of the other sizes.
Beast Machines - Limited numbers of items were released, but no delays of waves after the first.
Beast Wars - only missed items during the transition from UK to US stock

Whenever we missed toys, it was late-wave items as Hasbro AU were winding up an old line in time for the next one. Not early or mid wave items due to shelfwarming. That only occured once with TF3.

Sources:
2011 movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10945
2011 non-movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10314
2010 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=9241
2008-2009 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=561
1996-2007 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/checklist.html



In cases of parents who are buying for their own children- dead wrong! Parents who are that knowledgeable and are non-fans, are going to be so for one reason- taking an interest in their children's hobbies. So they're not going to be buying lead characters automatically; they're going to buy their child's favorite character.

If a child likes Bulkhead more than Prime, then what is that parent going to do- buy their child's favorite character in this instance, or Prime because he's the lead character?

The moment you deviate away from that to the parent/adult buying for a child of a friend or family member, then they're generally not going to be buying more than a deluxe or a basic sized figure anyway, so really marketing from that dangerous assumption about your core demographic (especially when you start talking about Megas or larger) has the potential to be highly counter-productive.

Parents knowing all the specifics of their child's toy interests? - maybe if they were toy collectors themselves.
Most parents are too busy working a full-time job, doing the household chores, making sure the kids do their schooling, and running them around... and that's in the 2-parent homes with one or two kids. Make that a single parent, or a larger family, or even the extended family relative buying the gift, they have a lot of more important things to worry about or prioritise than memorising 50-odd Transformers characters, in just one of the many Transformers series, in just one of the many toy brands that their kid is currently interested in just this year.
First thought of a parent doing the christmas shopping for a dozen relatives and friends - my boy's into Transformers.... okay, who was in that movie... um this yellow car guy, and this truck... no wait, he already has a yellow car guy, because he got it for christmas last year from his uncle. The truck it is then. I don't think he has that one in his room full of toys.

It'd be nice to have parents be more pro-actively involved in their kids interests, but in todays busy (and often single-parent) world, there's not as much attention given to the specific details. Us fans might know the difference between the 20 different bumblebee toys released just before the TF3 movie, but to a non-fan parent, they are all Bumblebee... and if their kid already has one from the last movie because it was only 2 years ago, they aren't going to buy another one.



Then you have the other things about Transformers- not every kid is going to automatically want Prime. Look at the way most of us as fans are about our favorite characters and the number of us who decided on that favorite as kids.

Yes Prime is the father figure, but Bulkhead is the "big brother" character of that show. How many kids are going to gravitate towards him.

Heck if it were just about the toys and leader characters, noone would give 2 hoots about Bludgeon, or even Fangry for that matter. It wasn't 20 year olds and 30 year olds who were making either popular at the time either.

This is the problem with Hasbro and retailers though- they simply can't seem to get their heads around the fact that they're not just selling children's playthings, but also pieces of modern mythology due to the nature of toy cartoons.


Again, you're looking at it from the perspective of a collector/fan and not as a parent/gift-giver who make up the majority of sales. If it were down to fan-favourites driving sales we wouldn't have so many Bumblebe and Optimus toys with each series. Hasbro have repeatedly said that these are iconic characters for the common folk, who know of Transformers, but don't collect anything themselves. They just buy a toy or two for someone they know... and since they make up the bulk of purchases, Hasbro will keep pushing those iconic images as the foundation of their product lines... forever.

Just listen to parents in the stores when they are trying to decide on a particular toy (not just TFs), or work colleagues who watched the TF movies - they have certain familiarities, but you as a fan have to help them fill in the blanks... even character names. Most people at my work have seen one or more of the three TF movies, and even the people who enjoyed them, enjoyed them as a movie, but have no interest in buying any toys. As such, they don't memorise the details, to the point that most can only name the 4 main characters - Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream. The rest they usually describe by colour, by their alt-mode, or by what they did in the movie.
That's what Hasbro knows from market research, and that's why those characters make up the bulk of the assortments. Not for us fans who have favourites, or want one of each... but for the "dumb" masses who just grab what they recognise or remember.
This has worked well enough for Hasbro until TF3, because those main characters have been around on shelves continuously since 2007, and most haven't changed forms enough for a parent or kid who already has a Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream to say, "I want the new Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream toy".

Other sub-lines have failed or been flawed, but this was the first main-line that failed spectacularly, due to flawed Hasbro marketting & consumer research not being flexible enough to adapt to changed circumstances (assuming each new line will be seen by consumers as new, no matter how recent and similar it is to the previous line).

[bowspearer]

I already mentioned the different circumstances causing the current movie series to shelf-warm, but that is the only main-line that has done that on its initial release.
You're hating Hasbro for something that isn't true.

No, I'm pointing out a flaw which has happened for over a decade. You on the other hand, are practicing blatant Hasbro apologetics here.


You can't claim something has always occurred, when it has only occurred with the current mainline. You either need to show proof on such a wild claim, or first do some research to see if your opinion is even true.
Look through the sightings section, the various checklist/sightings archives and the news emails...

The only lines that had a big initial release that prevented/imited future waves here are - TF3
The lines that didn't shelfwarm enough to prevent future waves here:
TF2 - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
Animated - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
TF1 - first waves sold out so fast, there was a shortage by Christmas and scalpers were making a fortune
Classics - most waves released within a month of global release
Cybertron - all Waves released within a month of global release, and only missed one regular figure
Energon - most Waves released within a month of global release, and didn't miss many figures
Armada - No delays after the first wave, with most figures released here
RiD - Voyager/Mega class was skipped, but no delays after the first wave of the other sizes.
Beast Machines - Limited numbers of items were released, but no delays of waves after the first.
Beast Wars - only missed items during the transition from UK to US stock

Whenever we missed toys, it was late-wave items as Hasbro AU were winding up an old line in time for the next one. Not early or mid wave items due to shelfwarming. That only occured once with TF3.

Actually it was also mid wave items too. It's worth pointing out that we're in the mid-wave period with the DOTM line.


Sources:
2011 movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10945
2011 non-movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10314
2010 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=9241
2008-2009 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=561
1996-2007 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/checklist.html

Ok for starters there are glaring inaccuracies within the some of the lists, for example, Primal Prime and Urban Camo Ruination did turn up here as I saw the former in TRU Chatswood and the later in Target Tuggerah.

As to my point.

Non-movie toys:

1996- Black Arachnia, Tigertron and Buzzsaw never see release here- 2 of whom were core characters.

1997- we miss out on most of the US 96 line due to a changeover and the only Mega we get in (Inferno) had proved to be such a shelfwarmer that he was renamed Scavenger when he became a Transmetal.

1998- granted we lucked out that year.

1999- We miss out on the Fox Kids repaints, although regardless of how much you call this splitting hairs, I've already demonstrated core BW toys not turning up here.

2000- the vast bulk of the Beast Machines line.

2001- The Predacons in RiD with the exception of Megatron aren't released here.

2002- Rail Racer isn't released here or the Spychanger principal cast members

2003- I'll take your word for it, because I never saw the PL versions of Armada characters at retail.

2004- Omega Sentinel isn't released here, who was a mid-line release.

2005- Quickstrike, Sixshot, Overcast and Alpha Q and Prowl are missed by regular retailers (they only arrive in the country because of Casefresh.com)

2006- Soundwave is a near miss. Gets missed by the mainstream release and winds up being sold for half price. Great for fans and kids; bad for the business end of things.

2007- again, nothing is missed, but the Classics line is that small that it was going to be near on impossible to miss anything.

Movie toys:

As far as the movie toys go, I'll claim ignorance onshipping levels as I've generally been completely disinterested in the movie line.

I could check on the line from '08 to '10 but what I've posted proves a history of Hasbro Aust almost consistently having a problem in terms of missing case assortments in this country with Transformers lines.


Parents knowing all the specifics of their child's toy interests? - maybe if they were toy collectors themselves.
Most parents are too busy working a full-time job, doing the household chores, making sure the kids do their schooling, and running them around... and that's in the 2-parent homes with one or two kids. Make that a single parent, or a larger family, or even the extended family relative buying the gift, they have a lot of more important things to worry about or prioritise than memorising 50-odd Transformers characters, in just one of the many Transformers series, in just one of the many toy brands that their kid is currently interested in just this year.

There is a significant difference between knowing the ins and outs of the lore of shows and toylines a child likes and knowing which characters in that line are the child's favourites. Likewise there is a difference between memorising 50-odd transformers as you put it, and knowing the 1-4 that that child regards as their favorites. Once they already have their favorites, then sure, it falls into that category, but the child's favorite character/s are going to be a factor.


First thought of a parent doing the christmas shopping for a dozen relatives and friends - my boy's into Transformers.... okay, who was in that movie... um this yellow car guy, and this truck... no wait, he already has a yellow car guy, because he got it for christmas last year from his uncle. The truck it is then. I don't think he has that one in his room full of toys.

You're more describing the uncles, aunts and grandparents, or friends of the family there than parents, depending on how into the toyline the kid is (especially considering these days there are very few major toy brands on the market and action figure lines tend to differ from say, LEGO in terms of characters). Furthermore that buying demographic predominantly tends to be more Deluxe, Scout and Legends Class figures, while the main characters tend to be in the larger assortments (with the occasional smaller version of them).


It'd be nice to have parents be more pro-actively involved in their kids interests, but in todays busy (and often single-parent) world, there's not as much attention given to the specific details. Us fans might know the difference between the 20 different bumblebee toys released just before the TF3 movie, but to a non-fan parent, they are all Bumblebee... and if their kid already has one from the last movie because it was only 2 years ago, they aren't going to buy another one.

I agree with the later part of it, but in the case of the former, as you're hardly talking about a parent being an expert in TFs when you're talking about them knowing which characters are the child's favorites when you're talking about child fans. I'd argue that that level of knowledge would be standard for any parent who was taking even a rudimentary interest in their child. While they're not going to know the difference between all 20 different versions of Bumblebee; if their child's favorite character is say, Bulkhead (to take the example of TF:P), then they are going to know the difference between Bulkhead and Prime.


Again, you're looking at it from the perspective of a collector/fan and not as a parent/gift-giver who make up the majority of sales. If it were down to fan-favourites driving sales we wouldn't have so many Bumblebe and Optimus toys with each series. Hasbro have repeatedly said that these are iconic characters for the common folk, who know of Transformers, but don't collect anything themselves. They just buy a toy or two for someone they know... and since they make up the bulk of purchases, Hasbro will keep pushing those iconic images as the foundation of their product lines... forever.

You're contradicting yourself here, as there is a difference between a parent buying for a child and other adult gift givers buying for them.


Just listen to parents in the stores when they are trying to decide on a particular toy (not just TFs), or work colleagues who watched the TF movies - they have certain familiarities, but you as a fan have to help them fill in the blanks... even character names. Most people at my work have seen one or more of the three TF movies, and even the people who enjoyed them, enjoyed them as a movie, but have no interest in buying any toys. As such, they don't memorise the details, to the point that most can only name the 4 main characters - Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream. The rest they usually describe by colour, by their alt-mode, or by what they did in the movie.

In terms of parents; you're at best, only looking at the parents of kids who are only exposed to the movie in a trend following manner and even then kids are going to have favourites, even if the parents can't remember the name and it's a case of "he really likes that silver car with the blades on his arms" [sideswipe] for example.


That's what Hasbro knows from market research, and that's why those characters make up the bulk of the assortments. Not for us fans who have favourites, or want one of each... but for the "dumb" masses who just grab what they recognise or remember.
This has worked well enough for Hasbro until TF3, because those main characters have been around on shelves continuously since 2007, and most haven't changed forms enough for a parent or kid who already has a Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream to say, "I want the new Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream toy".

Other sub-lines have failed or been flawed, but this was the first main-line that failed spectacularly, due to flawed Hasbro marketting & consumer research not being flexible enough to adapt to changed circumstances (assuming each new line will be seen by consumers as new, no matter how recent and similar it is to the previous line).

Would this be the same marketing which has seen kids getting into video games and ditching action figures at increasingly younger ages? This has been Hasbro's problem though - when you follow marketing trends rather than setting them, you become stale, and sooner or later it catches up with you.

[Demonac]

2000- the vast bulk of the Beast Machines line.

2001- The Predacons in RiD with the exception of Megatron aren't released here.

2002- Rail Racer isn't released here or the Spychanger principal cast members



Most of the toys missed (especially during RiD) were Mega's. Thats a problem that can be blamed on BW Scavanger & BM Cheetor & Tankor. Retailers skipped Mega's completely until the size was renamed during Armada.




2004- Omega Sentinel isn't released here, who was a mid-line release.

2005- Quickstrike, Sixshot, Overcast and Alpha Q and Prowl are missed by regular retailers (they only arrive in the country because of Casefresh.com)


These toys were all the tail end toys during Energon. We've always had a problem with that.

[bowspearer]

Most of the toys missed (especially during RiD) were Mega's. Thats a problem that can be blamed on BW Scavanger & BM Cheetor & Tankor. Retailers skipped Mega's completely until the size was renamed during Armada.

Which goes to show that both Hasbro and the retailers were asleep at the wheel. However I'm inclined to apportion more of the blame for that to Hasbro reps who should have been done a better job of pointing out how the line had done. The buyers might have been skittish, but the Japanese market research data combined with the fact that deluxes should have shelf-warmed should have been enough factors to push them over the line.

Furthermore, I fail to see why a late mega asst order couldn't have gone through a month after RiD hit the shelves when it was clear the line was a hit with kids, considering that we're talking about an entire market that's in the 10s of millions of consumers range (meaning that it is worth Hasbro's while to fire up the molds once again).

The other problem was how different size classes were determined. Wedge sold as a Basic in Japan and a Deluxe in the US, while the Predacon Trio and deluxe class Vs sets were sold as individual basics in Japan, which would arguable have had a positive effect on sales too.


These toys were all the tail end toys during Energon. We've always had a problem with that.

Actually our problem has always been more that we typically miss out on, say, waves 2 and 3, we'll get wave 4, then miss out of 5 and 6 and then get wave 7 and miss wave 8.

The only reason that the lack of toys is lower than it probably should be is that wave when the next order goes through, the wave that comes in is one which is comprised entirely of the figures in the gaps- meaning that generally the only gap missed is the last one.

That said, if it wasn't for BigW buying an entire wave of Voyagers, then we would have missed out on Soundwave in Cybertron, and that was a mid-line wave.

Hasbro International really needs to start looking at having 2 different wave streams- a US market stream where assortments are ideally set up for their markets, and a non-US one for where markets are only ordering, say, one wave out of every 3.

[Demonac]

Which goes to show that both Hasbro and the retailers were asleep at the wheel. However I'm inclined to apportion more of the blame for that to Hasbro reps who should have been done a better job of pointing out how the line had done. The buyers might have been skittish, but the Japanese market research data combined with the fact that deluxes should have shelf-warmed should have been enough factors to push them over the line.


This makes no sense. What does Japanese market research have to do with us here in Australia? And what do Deluxe's have to do with Mega's?




Actually our problem has always been more that we typically miss out on, say, waves 2 and 3, we'll get wave 4, then miss out of 5 and 6 and then get wave 7 and miss wave 8.


Just looking at deluxe toys on the TF wiki, but it seems that we didn't miss much at all until the tail-end of a line. This is going back through to Armada. While some waves were harder to find, I bought pretty much everything locally at some point.


The only reason that the lack of toys is lower than it probably should be is that wave when the next order goes through, the wave that comes in is one which is comprised entirely of the figures in the gaps- meaning that generally the only gap missed is the last one.

That said, if it wasn't for BigW buying an entire wave of Voyagers, then we would have missed out on Soundwave in Cybertron, and that was a mid-line wave.


A major retailer did release it here. So what's the problem?

[Bartrim]

Should 3/4 of this discussion be moved to it's own thread since it's not to do with HA Soundwave?;):p

[bowspearer]

This makes no sense. What does Japanese market research have to do with us here in Australia? And what do Deluxe's have to do with Mega's?

Japanese Market research data (and I imagine US market research would have been done also) would have indicated the line worked where BM didn't. In fact when I first saw RiD toys in this country at TRU Chatswood, I distinctly remember a parent commenting excitedly on how they were actually cars again. Market research data would have shown that that was going to be the general response.

Furthermore are you saying that parents and people buying for kids aren't going to be the main toy market and that therefore far more deluxes and basics are going to be sold than Megas due to cost (people might spend $30 on a child's friend for a birthday party, but they're not about to spend $50 on them). Bundling basics up as Deluxes or Megas pushes them into a higher price point and makes purchases of them less frequent.


Just looking at deluxe toys on the TF wiki, but it seems that we didn't miss much at all until the tail-end of a line. This is going back through to Armada. While some waves were harder to find, I bought pretty much everything locally at some point.

Which raises a couple of interesting points which goes back to what I was saying. You said you looked at deluxes only, but most of the 2nd sereis of BM toys were basics and almost all the villains in RiD were Megas or Supers. You bring up going back to Armada, which is interesting because RiD and Beast Machines had shocking omissions in what was available here (to the point where RiD had the practically the same bad guy availability as the Skeleton Warriors toyline did).



A major retailer did release it here. So what's the problem?

A major retailer picking it up as an exclusive in a bulk lot and selling it off at clearance prices in bundles is something you class as a near miss. It's a situation where something is avoided in spite of an endemic problem. We got lucky with Soundwave, but as nothing has changed, when will it happen again? Or will we be saddled with another situation like G1 colour scheme Movie Jazz, where people have to pay $50 to get a deluxe figure locally?

Why is it so "inconvenient" to say that Hasbro has become a victim of its own success through suffering from the apathy that comes from markets where there is a lack of competition.

This has been a long term problem and now it's starting to clearly make itself visible once more. Why shouldn't this be something Hasbro is criticised over (with an eye to them possibly re-evaluating their approach to case assortment arangements, be it through sitting down with retail buyers, different case assortments for foreign markets,etc)?

[Fungal Infection]

Should 3/4 of this discussion be moved to it's own thread since it's not to do with HA Soundwave?;):p

Quoted for truth.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Should 3/4 of this discussion be moved to it's own thread since it's not to do with HA Soundwave?;):p


Quoted for truth.

I agree. While an interesting debate, I think we've gone a bit off topic.

[griffin]

(moved discussion posts that didn't directly relate to the Soundwave news topic)

[Hursticon]

Wow, 3 whole pages already! :p