Gen1 Optimus/Convoy trailer/repair-bay origin?

[griffin]

I was commenting on this at another site, and figured I'd ask it here to see if anyone here has an insight into this puzzle.

The Generation One Optimus/Convoy comes with a robot, Roller and a Trailer/combat-deck (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Combat_Deck).

In some versions over the years, and possibly only with JP versions, the trailer/combat-deck has been given a third mode - a repair bay... in which it stands up on its end when opened, and the Optimus robot can be placed up against it for repairs or maintenance.

The Hybrid Convoy (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:THS02Convoy.jpg) has it, Gen1 MP-4 (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__9DwLTRfqMc/TGNvctoYDEI/AAAAAAAAANo/41zusTrb5O8/s1600/masterpiece+optimus+prime+mp04+convoy+with+trailer +gembultoys+2.jpg) has it, Gen1 MP-10 (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YDG_acwYS4A/TcoZLXqeXLI/AAAAAAAAAio/vrPoNVMWF5w/s1600/mp10-2.jpg) has it, and even the recent JP DotM Voyager Optimus with trailer (http://www.toycollectors.com.au/tftoys/jp2011a04.jpg) (not yet released by Hasbro) had this stand-up feature... so what exactly is it homaging for it to be an included feature? (an image of the original Convoy/Optimus (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3202626664_80c11f80da.jpg) in his repair bay, for reference)

The tfwiki (linked above) didn't make any mention of its origin, like if it was a carried over Diaclone feature (to repair their non-sentient robots) or if it was a plot device in one of the various JP-exclusive comics.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the origin or point of it... or even, why they keep homaging it if it never existed in Transformers?

[GoktimusPrime]

It originated from Diaclone.

http://diaclone.net/orid/dia052/index.html <---scroll down to the 5th image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn-YSnJrcO4 <--- see 0:11
It's known as the "Maintenance Base" ('seibi-kichi' 整備基地) mode.

[UltraMarginal]

Wow, how many releses of this mold in various paint/sticker schemes has there been over the years!

various diaclone, various g1, g2, re-issues... repaints into Magnus, music label.
That is standing the test of time.:cool:

[Cat]

Yep, from Diaclone, and was a big part of the pre-production art for the eventual product (as seen in TF:Generations).

Transformers = where no concept ever dies.

[liegeprime]

wow, lookit all those Diaclone Convoys! One concept though that hasnt been too much explored is indeed the use of the combat deck/repair bay in much of the TF lore... it just "vanishes" most of the time.... I mean even in vehicle mode the repair drone can come out from that small hole in the trailer and basically prime has a missle launcher attack feature while in vehicle mode, but it never got any screentime for that. Only time it got used in battle it got immediately wiped out with a missle attack and that time as well when Prime was "possessed" due to the evil chip in their re energizing chamber, but even then the battle station mode was , meh. Shame really, considering all three components are Optimus Prime yet only the cab (prime) portion is the sturdiest. Rollershould have at least a weapon of some sort ( IDW did put a laser cannon on him in Escalation(?))

[GoktimusPrime]

One concept though that hasnt been too much explored is indeed the use of the combat deck/repair bay in much of the TF lore... it just "vanishes" most of the time.... I mean even in vehicle mode the repair drone can come out from that small hole in the trailer and basically prime has a missle launcher attack feature while in vehicle mode, but it never got any screentime for that.
We did see that feature being used in Generation 2 IIRC.


Only time it got used in battle it got immediately wiped out with a missle attack and that time as well when Prime was "possessed" due to the evil chip in their re energizing chamber, but even then the battle station mode was , meh.
Combat Deck also appeared in More Than Meets The Eye Part 3 when Optimus Prime ordered it to fire at Megatron, but then Megatron blew it to pieces (which should have sent Prime into shock - but in the cartoon he felt nothing). Combat Deck also appeared in Fire In The Sky where Prime used it to take out the Decepticon Jets, and in The Search for Alpha Trion where we see Combat Deck's "Da Clamps!" arm pull Elita One inside the trailer.


Shame really, considering all three components are Optimus Prime yet only the cab (prime) portion is the sturdiest.
That's because the cab/robot is the most important component - Optimus Prime can still survive if the other two components are destroyed, but the other two components cannot survive without Optimus Prime.


Rollershould have at least a weapon of some sort ( IDW did put a laser cannon on him in Escalation(?))
Roller had a weapon in the G1 comics and some books, such as in Plague of the Insecticons! (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/7/75/Roller_.jpg). Of course, the toy itself can hold Optimus Prime's rifle instead of where the connector/hose thing usually goes. But when I was a kid I would disconnect the hose and nozzle and pretend the connector was a gun. ;) That's also how Roller was portrayed in Megatron's Fight For Power (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/6/60/MegatronsFightforPower_Roller.jpg). :D For some reason, Manny Galan made Roller look like a tank (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/0/0c/Roller_g2.jpg) in G2 (Total War).

But yeah, as far as the comics was concerned he seemed to be used as a scout/drone with no apparent offensive capability. Still, he's a much cooler drone than Clutch (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Clutch_%28G1%29) (toywise). ;)

[griffin]

As I had guessed, it is something from Diaclone, but not something ever used in Transformers... So, what's the point of continually homaging it in Transformers then? The repeated battle-axe "homage" to those couple minutes in the first cartoon story is annoying enough, but repeatedly homaging something that wasn't even in the cartoon (or anything) feels wrong. Because it feels like they are homaging someone else's toyline instead of Transformers.

[Cat]

As I had guessed, it is something from Diaclone, but not something ever used in Transformers... So, what's the point of continually homaging it in Transformers then? The repeated battle-axe "homage" to those couple minutes in the first cartoon story is annoying enough, but repeatedly homaging something that wasn't even in the cartoon (or anything) feels wrong. Because it feels like they are homaging someone else's toyline instead of Transformers.

I would imagine that's because it's been mostly homaged by TakTom based stuff, and that sort of thing is a popular feature in Japanese mech shows/models/toys (For instance, there's insanely detailed repair bays/docks/launchers for Gundam kits, Neon Genesis etc).

The general launching from a bay/dock/repair bay thing is also really common in most mecha anime.

So I'd put it down to it being a drawcard for the Japanese market, more than us westerners.

*Actually, even in the Visualworks mook, I remember quite a few pieces with various characters in repair bays, like Devastator etc. Not something we'd really see done artwise here.

[GoktimusPrime]

I guess it's like Jetfire's Gerwalk/Guardian mode... never an official mode for the Transformer version of the toy, but it was a mode for the pre-Transformer and popular with fans (to the point where people try to make their own Gerwalks out of all other kinds of Transformers! Wasn't there a thread dedicated to this? (or was that on another board??))

[5FDP]

I guess it's like Jetfire's Gerwalk/Guardian mode... never an official mode for the Transformer version of the toy, but it was a mode for the pre-Transformer and popular with fans (to the point where people try to make their own Gerwalks out of all other kinds of Transformers! Wasn't there a thread dedicated to this? (or was that on another board??))

Wrong :D

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/5647/jetfire.jpg

[GoktimusPrime]

Wrong :D

Turns out I'm even wronger than I thought! (unpossible!!)

Jetfire's instructions (http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/instructions/autobot/1985/instr_jetfire.jpg) shows his Gerwalk mode under "Alternate Transformation" - but it doesn't actually show how to get him into that mode! :p Ah well. Cat's explanation also makes sense -- with the wider awareness of Diaclone amongst Japanese fans. :)

[5FDP]

Jetfire's instructions (http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/instructions/autobot/1985/instr_jetfire.jpg) shows his Gerwalk mode under "Alternate Transformation" - but it doesn't actually show how to get him into that mode!

If anyone has any difficulty in achieving the alternate mode, they should just pack him up and take him back to the stores. I wonder if you could still get a refund 25 years later :p

[GoktimusPrime]

If I were a store clerk, and someone came to me with a G1 Jetfire in saleable condition complete with box, tray and all inserts and wanted to refund the original retail price that they purchased it for in 1985 -- I'd happily refund them out of my own pocket and keep the toy!! :D

[Cat]

Turns out I'm even wronger than I thought! (unpossible!!)

Jetfire's instructions (http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/instructions/autobot/1985/instr_jetfire.jpg) shows his Gerwalk mode under "Alternate Transformation" - but it doesn't actually show how to get him into that mode! :p Ah well. Cat's explanation also makes sense -- with the wider awareness of Diaclone amongst Japanese fans. :)

I'm talking about the Japanese mecha community/fanbase/shows/formula in general, moreso than just Diaclone awareness.

To be honest, I'm not sure myself how popular Diaclone is, seeing as it's been largely eclipsed by the westernised Transformers take on it.

I'm talking more your general mecha trends. Popular with everything else, so popular with Convoy. A lot of the mech shows all have the same basic beats and formula, and this happens to be one of them that was there on Diaclone Convoy, and is probably still a key feature of their marketing, and what their fans want. For us westerners? Meh.

Wouldn't be surprised to learn that the repair bay features were more heavily featured/desired in their marketing of G1 Convoy. I mentioned Visualworks earlier, which has a few pics of different TF's in docking/repair bays that are human scaled, which isn't something we've really seen often (if at all) artwise over here.

For them, that sort of thing is simply a part of the mecha formula, and well, mecha's mecha (Again, massively generalising here to hopefully make my point easier to understand).

[Hursticon]

Wrong :D
*snip*

Oh Snap! :p:D

[Paulbot]

I was expecting a different question, so I'll ask it: what's the origin of G1 Optimus Prime's trailer?

Among the first year toys characters he's unique in having the largest part of his body being pretty much separate and pretty much stationary. (Omega's similiar in year 2 but that's because his robot mode splits in two). Optimus Prime just transforms from vehicle mode and the trailer in nearly every (but not all) instance of comic and cartoon just disappears.

Since he feels the pain to his trailer component, why have it? Seems a rather obvious target (and a big one at twice the size of the cab) so he's probably lucky it disappears. He must have to use more Energon just lugging it around for no real purpose.

Did he have it before the Ark crashed? (It's yes in the Marvel comics (ref #48), unsure in the cartoon, Dreamwave and IDW comics, and a no in WFC.).

It makes sense then that movie Optimus didn't have a trailer until he started using it to carry his jet pack and extra weapons. That gave it a good reason for being there.

But G1 Optimus Prime's trailer? What is its great untold story?

[GoktimusPrime]

As you rightly pointed out, in the G1 comics he already had a trailer on Cybertron. As for the cartoon, perhaps his trailer came from wherever the frell it goes when Optimus Prime transforms to robot mode!! :eek:

Seriously... that trailer is like one hardcore ninja. An issue of Toyfare Magazine once showed us where the trailer goes to when Prime is in robot mode and we don't see it... crowd-diving at baseball games, lifting weights at the gym, frequenting strip clubs with He-Man etc. Yup. ;p The cartoon portrayed combat deck/trailer as a lifeless expendable drone -- Megatron blows it up and Prime doesn't so much as flinch.

[Cat]

At the time, the Ark had been largely down for that whole time. It may have also not been fully operational and 'awake' at the time of the initial scannings.

It got everyone else right - densely packed into their alt mode.

For Prime though, maybe the truck was an unexpected mode of transportation for a Cybertronian device such as TeleTraan 1? It mapped out Prime's body to the cab, and was then confused to see that the trailer was naturally kept largely empty. Again, in keeping with the them of blending in, it put as little in there as possible :Roller and a few little doodads. Maybe some of what was there was added to perhaps provide a temp triage unit for wounded, for use by Ratchet and Ironhide, and temporary armoured transportation for soldiers too damaged to move on their own (even though in the cartoon they work around that in different silly ways anyway).

Maybe it was simply a case of it being partially damaged ie not thinking at it's best, trying to stay as true as it could to the earth equivalent vehicles , while still adding in some field units/area for the soldiers/ Prime?

If we want to throw the toys into the mix, you could maybe argue it did it to Ratchet first (the med bay), that worked perfectly, and so it adapted it for Ironhide, and finally the much larger Prime.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ratchet's med bay did appear very briefly in the cartoon ;)

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

At the time, the Ark had been largely down for that whole time. It may have also not been fully operational and 'awake' at the time of the initial scannings.

It got everyone else right - densely packed into their alt mode.

For Prime though, maybe the truck was an unexpected mode of transportation for a Cybertronian device such as TeleTraan 1? It mapped out Prime's body to the cab, and was then confused to see that the trailer was naturally kept largely empty. Again, in keeping with the them of blending in, it put as little in there as possible :Roller and a few little doodads. Maybe some of what was there was added to perhaps provide a temp triage unit for wounded, for use by Ratchet and Ironhide, and temporary armoured transportation for soldiers too damaged to move on their own (even though in the cartoon they work around that in different silly ways anyway).

Maybe it was simply a case of it being partially damaged ie not thinking at it's best, trying to stay as true as it could to the earth equivalent vehicles , while still adding in some field units/area for the soldiers/ Prime?

If we want to throw the toys into the mix, you could maybe argue it did it to Ratchet first (the med bay), that worked perfectly, and so it adapted it for Ironhide, and finally the much larger Prime.Prime was the first Autobot to be repaired in the cartoon.:)
We never see his Cybertronian form in the 'toon so it's quite possible (and the simplest explanation courtesy of Ockham's Razor) to believe he was either created with it or acquired it sometime later on Cybertron before coming to Earth (in the cartoonverse anyway).

[Cat]

New theory: It did all the Decepticons just fine. It used mass shifting perfectly - Reflector, Soundwave, Megatron, the cassettes - to give them all substantially smaller alt modes.

Maybe when Starscream shot the Ark/mountain, it 'bumped the circuits' in the shock, causing the calibration/settings to change on how it handled the remaining Transformers, who were all Autobots (ignoring anyone else that later showed up inexplicably).

Maybe that caused it to handle things different in how it dealt with alteration of mass?

OR - who cares, and I'm just rambling nonsense.


B) is probably the correct answer. :P

[Cat]

Prime was the first Autobot to be repaired in the cartoon.:)
We never see his Cybertronian form in the 'toon so it's quite possible (and the simplest explanation courtesy of Ockham's Razor) to believe he was either created with it or acquired it sometime later on Cybertron before coming to Earth (in the cartoonverse anyway).

Yep, I actually did remember that (guess because those that initial 3 parter is my favourite, I remember it a bit better than the rest).

I don't think that negates my 'theory'. I think it actually helps it. The first one it had to repair (after being shaken/shocked by Starscream's blast) was Prime. So maybe it then gave him the 'deluxe' package due to that, and trying to incorporate what it saw as being as many necessary things as possible, for the first one (after being damaged and maybe reset a bit).

Again though, (B) from my previous post applies. :D

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Possibly, but it's the G1 cartoon which is notoriously lax when it comes to trifling details like continuity and size consistency. I mean, maybe Teletraan 1 just happened to scan a truck with an advanced Cybertronian battle station and a Roller drone inside the trailer. It's possible but not especially likely.

If I was trying to be serious about it I'd just settle for the simplest explanation of he had it before and it got reformatted with the rest of him. See Ockham's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ockham%27s_razor). But really, anything more complex than 'there's a bunch of giant warring robots with laser guns in two (or more) opposing factions, and they fight' and it all gets a bit complicated. Even Cybertron hasn't been a constant in every series (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Robots_in_Disguise_%28cartoon%29#Con nections_to_other_fiction).

[GoktimusPrime]

What I'd really like to know about the original 1984 G1 Optimus Prime's trailer is... is it compatible with DOTM Deluxe Optimus Prime? Doesn't anyone here own the DotM Dlx OP toy?? :(

[Cat]

Possibly, but it's the G1 cartoon which is notoriously lax when it comes to trifling details like continuity and size consistency. I mean, maybe Teletraan 1 just happened to scan a truck with an advanced Cybertronian battle station and a Roller drone inside the trailer. It's possible but not especially likely.

If I was trying to be serious about it I'd just settle for the simplest explanation of he had it before and it got reformatted with the rest of him. See Ockham's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ockham%27s_razor). But really, anything more complex than 'there's a bunch of giant warring robots with laser guns in two (or more) opposing factions, and they fight' and it all gets a bit complicated. Even Cybertron hasn't been a constant in every series (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Robots_in_Disguise_%28cartoon%29#Con nections_to_other_fiction).

Aye. Beware, that way lies madness, my friend. :p