Australian Transformers Convention

[GL-Sideswipe]

Okay with my first year of collecting, Im reading up on and learning more about Botcon. I still don't know much about it but one thing I have learnt, is that its only in America. I was just wondering, is there any Australian transformers conventions?

[GoktimusPrime]

+ 2003: OzFormers booth/stall at Sydney SupaNova and Animania conventions
+ 2004: OzFormers stall at Sydney Animania convention. Sabretron convention at Ashfield Sydney.
+ 2006: OzToyCon at King St Wharf, Sydney.
+ 2009: OTCA stall at SMASH! convention, Sydney.

In short, these convention booths/stalls and conventions weren't profitable and just aren't worth running. American conventions have backing from Hasbro - and also America has a larger fan base due to the larger population there... we don't. A user here called SilverfromOz was thinking about organising an Australian convention with support from Hasbro, but I have no idea how that's going. Basically without support from Hasbro, it's just not really viable. :(

Anyway, here are some photos:

OzFormers 2003 (@ Sydney SupaNova)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/ozformers.jpg

Sabretron 2004 (Australia's first full Transformers convention)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/sabretron1.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/sabretron_binaltechs.jpg

OzToyCon (Australia's second and last full TF con)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/OzToyCon%202006/oztoycon19.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/OzToyCon%202006/oztoycon20.jpg

OTCA stall @ SMASH! 2009
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/Smash%202009/smash2009_3.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/Smash%202009/smash2009_1.jpg

P.S.: It's not only in America - Cybertron-Con (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cybertron_Con) is a Hasbro-sanctioned convention in China. There are also other non-sanctioned conventions (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unofficial_conventions) in the U.S., UK, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, Japan, the Phillipines and Canada. Some are more successful than others.

P.P.S.: There are various toy collector fairs around that a lot of TF fans regularly go to, like the Parramatta Fair in Sydney, the Sandown Fair in Melbourne, the Nexus Fair in Perth etc etc.

[GL-Sideswipe]

I really hope it works out someday, I would love to go to an aussie botcon :)

[kup]

As Gok mentioned, for some reason this sort of Con hasn't really worked in Australia in the past. I am not sure if it's due to population as cons in other countries with comparable populace and lack of Hasbro support have worked really well and have become yearly events.

I think it has to do with how impossibly expensive it is to do anything of the sort in this country and a 'Geek culture' not being as pronounced in the population.

[5FDP]

Argghh... I got all excited seeing another thread entitled 'Australian Transformers Convention' :(

Oh well, we all get to see Goki's pictures one more time :p

[GoktimusPrime]

Oh well, we all get to see Goki's pictures one more time :p
They were mostly for GL-Sideswipe's benefit, but it pleases me to see that others are enjoying them again too. ~(^~^)(^~^)~~(^~^)(^~^)~~(^~^)(^~^)~

[Sam]

@Gok - thanks for posting the photos. So the Supanova one was in 2003? Time flies!

[jena]

It's too bad someone like The Hub wouldn't give it a chance, if they could bring some voice actors or actors from the Bay movies out here, non-TF fans might even attend just to see certain actors and therefore the con would reach out to more people and have a better chance of higher attendance.

[Seraphim Prime]

As Gok mentioned, for some reason this sort of Con hasn't really worked in Australia in the past. I am not sure if it's due to population as cons in other countries with comparable populace and lack of Hasbro support have worked really well and have become yearly events.

I think it has to do with how impossibly expensive it is to do anything of the sort in this country and a 'Geek culture' not being as pronounced in the population.

I think it also has a lot to do with the size of our country in addition to our population. Smaller fanbase, with wider distribution around the country, means that it's harder to reach any kind of threshold value to make a convention viable.

Plus, when Gok has looked into it, there's a very high fee that Hasbro Aus. charges for something to be given "Official" status, and thus get their support in bringing over voice actors/designers.

[kup]

I think it also has a lot to do with the size of our country in addition to our population. Smaller fanbase, with wider distribution around the country, means that it's harder to reach any kind of threshold value to make a convention viable.

Plus, when Gok has looked into it, there's a very high fee that Hasbro Aus. charges for something to be given "Official" status, and thus get their support in bringing over voice actors/designers.

I am not convinced with this having to do with population numbers. Other countries with similar populace have succeeded in doing high profile conventions with them becoming yearly events.

I will however agree with the smaller fanbase argument. Australia does not have much of a prominent 'geek' culture to sustain such an event.

[Seraphim Prime]

I am not convinced with this having to do with population numbers. Other countries with similar populace have succeeded in doing high profile conventions with them becoming yearly events.

Yes, but their population is much closer together, and so travelling to the convention/gathering is no problem, which is what I was trying to indicate. Auto Assembly I suppose would be case in point - similar population, much smaller distance to travel means investing in going is not as difficult as it is for Australian fans. Just think of how much trouble our Northern/Western NSW brethren go to to get to the Parra fair.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, population distribution is also a key factor. Most of our main population centres are scattered far and wide across the coast line

[jena]

There are plenty of other conventions around the country that are a success. The Hub have 8 coming up this year, for things like Glee, True Blood, Supernatural... Surely Transformers deserves an aussie con.

[kup]

There are plenty of other conventions around the country that are a success. The Hub have 8 coming up this year, for things like Glee, True Blood, Supernatural... Surely Transformers deserves an aussie con.

Yeah things like that is what makes me think that it's not so much about population numbers or distribution just a bit of a lacking in 'Sci-Fi/Toy collecting' geek demographic within the populace.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah but as I mentioned before, previous attempts have not been financially viable. Previous conventions have been privately funded by fans (principally griffin) and it's just not reasonable to expect any individual fan to fund another one when they have proven to be financially unviable (unless you know, you're made out of money...)

Those other conventions you mentioned... are they officially sanctioned by the Hub? Because official support makes a world of difference. If Hasbro Australia decided to get behind the idea of an Australian convention, then it might be possible to do another one. But without the support of Hasbro or some really rich sponsor who's willing to take such a massive risk, I don't see it happening. SilverfromOz said he was going to try and get Hasbro AU on side, but I haven't heard from him in ages.

And in my personal experience with Hasbro AU, they're not exactly... 'eager' to help us either. They're entire attitude was like they're only geared to deal with retailers and seem to be ill-prepared and/or willing to deal with fans. For example:

+ When discussing the possibility of making an exclusive toy, I was told that we would need to order a minimum production run of one thousand units. At the time we were thinking about maybe using a Spychanger mould, even at $1 a figure, that's $1000 that someone would have to shell out of their pocket! :eek: And considering that we only had less than 200 attendees at Sabretron, we would have ended up with over 800 leftover toys. :( I then contact Takara who showed more enthusiasm, but informed me that because Australia is a Hasbro market, they can only assist me if Hasbro says so (I learned that day that Takara and Hasbro are contractually bound not to "contaminate" or "interfere" with each other's market without going through each other - e.g. Hasbro Australia would have had to obtain permission from Takara to sell things like MP Ultra Magnus, MP4 Convoy, Jetwing Optimus Prime etc. in Australian retail stores).

+ I attempted to get Hasbro to sanction the exclusive comic for Sabretron; I was told that I would need to pay a licensing fee of $10,000. This is obviously the kind of licensing fee they charge to actual publishing companies... they knew that I was just a lone individual fan who's already self-funding the production of the exclusive comic -- all I wanted to do was to acquire the legal right to say that the comic was a licensed product. But I would have to pay $10k for that privilege.

...so on top of the costs of venue hire, promotion, comic book production, toy production etc., I would have had to pay an additional $10,000 just for licensing! And probably even more to licence the name of the convention, toys, blah blah blah. Well, if you can find someone who can afford all that (and are prepared to make a loss), then by all means go ahead and run it.

At the end of the day, if you guys think a Transformers convention is viable, then by all means go ahead and organise one. I've already tried and well, I'm not gonna do it again... but maybe you guys have better event organising skills than me. :) But I'm personally proud of Sabretron 2004 and everyone who was involved in that... it will remain Australia's first Transformers convention and it also commemorated the 20th anniversary of the Transformers franchise. But you know, during the whole time I copped a lot of flak from people who told me the convention was a stupid idea and would never work -- someone people even publicly came out and said that were going to intentionally boycott the convention because they thought it was such a dumb idea. Yeah, I'm serious. :(

[jena]

All I know about The Hub is that they're a group of fans who work creating conventions here in aus. I've been to their cons before and it's certainly run by fans for fans. They've had to cancel cons in the past due to lack of interest. I'm just thinking it might be worthwhile contacting them to see if they're interested in putting together a con for transformers fans. They obviously have the contacts that could make it work. They're the ones behind the Oz Comic Con as well.

[UltraMarginal]

If anyone is confused, this is not the "HUB" as in the cable tv channel, this is "the Hub (http://thehubproductions.com/)" convention group in australia.

I'm not sure if much of what they do is officially sanctioned by the properties they tend to represent.

[kup]

If anyone is confused, this is not the "HUB" as in the cable tv channel, this is "the Hub (http://thehubproductions.com/)" convention group in australia.

I'm not sure if much of what they do is officially sanctioned by the properties they tend to represent.

I am sure that a lot of successful TF cons around the world are not sanctioned either.

[Bartrim]

If anyone is confused, this is not the "HUB" as in the cable tv channel, this is "the Hub (http://thehubproductions.com/)" convention group in australia.

I'm not sure if much of what they do is officially sanctioned by the properties they tend to represent.

Thank you... I was one of the confused ones:o

[UltraMarginal]

I am sure that a lot of successful TF cons around the world are not sanctioned either.

I absolutely agree, I was pointing out that they are probably saving a fortune by not paying many royalties. if any

[kup]

I absolutely agree, I was pointing out that they are probably saving a fortune by not paying many royalties. if any

I could be wrong but doesn't Dairycon make their own figures privately in a similar manner as Saibertron repainted their own keychain Bumblebees?

[UltraMarginal]

I could be wrong but doesn't Dairycon make their own figures privately in a similar manner as Saibertron repainted their own keychain Bumblebees?

I'm pretty sure you're right about that too. Some cons use third party figures too, I think there were several in the last 12 months.

[jena]

If anyone is confused, this is not the "HUB" as in the cable tv channel, this is "the Hub (http://thehubproductions.com/)" convention group in australia.

I'm not sure if much of what they do is officially sanctioned by the properties they tend to represent.

Haha, oops, probably would have helped if I mentioned that :p

[SkyWarp91]

I think it could be possible to have a ATC, but for it to profit it'd have to offer something that could appeal to fans at a very basic level and would have to have the approval of Hasbro.

What if instead of having a boring ol' convention, we had an Annual Outback Transformer Destruction Day, where hundreds of fans dress up as their favorite TF and engage in battle in a massive field. Kind of like Larping, but with BOTS AND CONS!!

Then again I'd probably get arrested for trying rip off so many people's faces and shouting 'GIVE ME YOUR FACE!!!'

[kup]

I think it could be possible to have a ATC, but for it to profit it'd have to offer something that could appeal to fans at a very basic level and would have to have the approval of Hasbro.

What if instead of having a boring ol' convention, we had an Annual Outback Transformer Destruction Day, where hundreds of fans dress up as their favorite TF and engage in battle in a massive field. Kind of like Larping, but with BOTS AND CONS!!

Then again I'd probably get arrested for trying rip off so many people's faces and shouting 'GIVE ME YOUR FACE!!!'

Bayformers the Broadway show?

[jena]

Instead of an entire convention, how about having a OTCA booth at both of the Oz Comic Con events?

[kup]

Instead of an entire convention, how about having a OTCA booth at both of the Oz Comic Con events?

Booth have already been tried with limited success. I am sure Gok will post the photos soon..

[jazzy_josh]

I can tell you as a convention goer that is tight with some people. There has been a rumor merking around that there may be a tf con in 2013, this is just rumor though. But one of the biggest problems is that tf actors are mainly voice actors and there is no money to be made there in signature, and most people dont go for pictures either.

One guy on the Armageddon and Oz Comic Con has been plugging the contacts for some Beast Wars and G1 voice actors. So far from what I have been paying attention to is that he helped them get Garry Chalk down here for the heroes and villians convention this year. He has been doing a lot of work for Gregg Berger as well plugging his name out there and the details plus trying to get his son's band down here.

If you guys were to get a transformers convention up and running again maybe he is some one worth looking into.

[jena]

Gok posted some pictures already and the last time anything was tried was 2009. Surely it wouldn't hurt to try again. I've already purchased a ticket to the Adelaide con so I'd be happy to help organize a booth.

[kup]

I can tell you as a convention goer that is tight with some people. There has been a rumor merking around that there may be a tf con in 2013, this is just rumor though. But one of the biggest problems is that tf actors are mainly voice actors and there is no money to be made there in signature, and most people dont go for pictures either.

One guy on the Armageddon and Oz Comic Con has been plugging the contacts for some Beast Wars and G1 voice actors. So far from what I have been paying attention to is that he helped them get Garry Chalk down here for the heroes and villians convention this year. He has been doing a lot of work for Gregg Berger as well plugging his name out there and the details plus trying to get his son's band down here.

If you guys were to get a transformers convention up and running again maybe he is some one worth looking into.

I would be much more interested in meeting voice actors than anyone from the movies but that's probably not what the masses would prefer.

[jazzy_josh]

Not only that but as some conventions have even said, how will they make their money back? voice actors are free well the godd conventions are any ways. But to make your money back you would have to charge a small amount on autographs and photos, make sure there are plenty of stalls as well.

You need to think about these before having a convention because those haveto cover not just the event grounds you hire but also the cost for a voice actor to fly over seas plus accomodation as well. It would be difficult but hey the aussie dollar is stron so why not lol.

[jena]

I came back to this thread to offer the simple idea of just us, the collectors, having a booth at oz comic con. It would be a good opportunity to gauge interest for an actual con later. It's pretty clear that a stand alone TF con won't be happening this year.

[Prowl]

someone people even publicly came out and said that were going to intentionally boycott the convention because they thought it was such a dumb idea. Yeah, I'm serious. :(

That is just sad to me. Sad & petty.

I think the only way a convention of sorts would work out here is if it was a combined one. Think a 80's nostalgia convention with M.A.S.K, GI Joe, Transformers, Star Wars, My little Pony, Cabbage patch kids, Voltron etc. It could be profitable just for those wanting to relive their childhood. I am sure something like that turn a profit/break even but it would require a lot of joint work with other fan communities.

Then again I am not up on conventions & there is probably one like this already that happens yearly.

[jazzy_josh]

possible, but the best approach is to do a pop culture con, majority of the tf voice actors did other series as well and recent games. Easier way to get people in and for stall sellers to sell items.

[GoktimusPrime]

Overwhelmingly the one thing that people want more than anything else at TF conventions is toy dealers. And we already have them at regular collectable fairs throughout the country... so another challenge is to organise a convention that is more than just another collectable toy fair - like at Sabretron we had games & trivia with prizes, exclusive stuff etc., OzToyCon had trivia, griffin's big TF toy history tour, BotCon presentation etc. -- but still not enough to really draw in sufficient numbers. It's nice for some people to say that they want conventions, but when they were organised, the numbers were just lacking.

The best way to support TF conventions is to have attended them... and I am most grateful to everyone who attended previous TF cons, but as you would have witnessed, there just weren't enough people. :(

Perhaps the next best thing might be to go back to running an Australian TF fan booth at SupaNova? But again, without Hasbro's support it might prove difficult... e.g. unless you're a dealer (which attracts higher registration costs), you're not supposed to sell anything that isn't your intellectual property.

[kup]

possible, but the best approach is to do a pop culture con, majority of the tf voice actors did other series as well and recent games. Easier way to get people in and for stall sellers to sell items.

This is by far the best way to go about it. A pop culture con will grab the attention and curiosity of all, not just a niche group.

[jazzy_josh]

Well of course you just can't have a pop culture convention, you need advertisment aswell. If you were able to get the attention of Gifts For The Geek or hub productions or one of the many organizers out there to help back you up you might have a chance in getting this off the grounds.
Now the stalls that do go to fairs are a good idea to start off with, I know of a fair few that go to the other conventions around the state. But you also need the other stalls that sell for the major companies as goktimusprime pointed out. If you can get the Madman up for a screening room, Hasbro for a display area as well as a sales booth, EB or games for a gaming area and some where that also sells food this would be a good idea.

Games are a good idea but you would need a pre-registration as well as cosplay as cosplay comps get things going off in a big way! Cosplay comps also bring in a lot of people. But the main thing is you need actors there. When you guys did the first conventions, how did you raise the funds up for that, if you don't mind me asking?

[jena]

Perhaps the next best thing might be to go back to running an Australian TF fan booth at SupaNova? But again, without Hasbro's support it might prove difficult... e.g. unless you're a dealer (which attracts higher registration costs), you're not supposed to sell anything that isn't your intellectual property.

That's what I've been attempting to discuss, but the conversation keeps going back to an actual convention. I asked if anyone was interested in having a booth at Oz Comic Con in Adelaide and Melbourne. We could just have a booth, we could print some of the fantastic toy photography created by members here to display, some of us could take some figures to have on display, give out flyers about the forums etc. We don't need to actually sell anything. Just be there to meet other fans, possibly recruit new members that didn't know the forum exists.

[gekisou]

I remember Sabretron. it was a really, really good effort and I loved that while it was small, everyone was fairly friendly to each other.
I still have the photos I took of the con on my comp. And I still look at it fondly. :)

[jazzy_josh]

Good idea if that was a possibility, I doubt at this point Oz Comic Con has any tables left as they would of gone by now. Best to try for the Armageddon or Hereos and Villians convention as that way you can have Garry Chalk with the group. I still say it would be a good idea to hold a mini convention a pop culture one and go from there. There are some great places a mini one could be held but you would have to have other more recent pop cultures.

[jena]

Someone just needs to fill out the exhibitor information on the Oz Comic Con website then wait and see, I suppose. It's worth a shot.

I just figure, there's already plenty of pop culture conventions, would another really be worth it? Many people are skeptical about Oz Comic Con because they think it's unnecessary when we already have Armageddon and Supanova.

[jazzy_josh]

At this late of game I dare say adelaide is full since the convention is at the end of March. They usually have tables sorted out very quickly. The only problem that people were skeptical about with Oz Comic Con was the fact that they were using the Comic Con name in their own convention name.

Good point but how many anime conventions are there and there keep seeming to be more and more anime conventions poping up, so if we stayed at a small one and not have any guests but we had plenty of stalls and a madman theater, games centre and some where for them to eat we should be ok.

[jena]

I highly doubt it, as the exhibitor page hasn't even been up very long or very well promoted. Many of the links on the website still say 'coming soon...' so the fact that it isn't too far away doesn't mean much. And I'm aware that people are skeptical of the use of the name, but they need to get over it since there are so many comic cons around the world that aren't associated to what we all know as THE Comic Con. A lot of people still also believe another pop culture con is unnecessary.

[jazzy_josh]

Yes but if you can keep up to date on their facebook page and I don't think they have many at all spaces left for Adelaide, maybe Melbourne but I doubt Adelaide.

[jena]

If the spots were full then I really don't think the exhibitor section would still be allowing the form to be submitted.

[jazzy_josh]

Lol if you haven't been up to date with the facebook page of OZ Comic Con then you wouldn't of seen that because they have been an of their feet with everything they have not been able to up date their actual page and most of their info they are releasing is on the facebook page and not the actual page. Hell one guy said we cant get info on the boondock saint brothers and then they updated it with info on their prices and all. They have a lot of work on their hands so don't be surprised if there are other things that they have not updated on their sites.

[jazzy_josh]

So any possible chance of Oz formers holding a pop culture event? What do you senior members and admin think? Is this a good idea that could be done?

[Sam]

I think the main issue is that of cost.

It costs quite a bit to get a stall or do a standalone event. Even when the organisers do not have profit in mind (and generally the organisers are fans who are just doing it for other fans), it's difficult to break even.

So there isn't much incentive to organise an event, when fans could attend collectible fairs that serve a similar function.

[jazzy_josh]

Ahh but as others said the other conventions it was small numbers, if you have it opened to pop culture you get more numbers and more stalls. Look at SMASH! they do purely anime and look at their revenue, they get profit as well which gets repumped back into the convention the following year.

[griffin]

Options and ideas area always being considered and thrown around from time to time, but when it comes down to funding, I seemed to be the only one willing to donate the bulk of the hundreds or thousands required for our past Cons & Booths at other Cons.
The last one I funded (in 2006) required me to sacrifice going to BotCon and max out my credit cards, which put me off for a while. Since then, we've seen an increase in conventions in this country, so perhaps the demand is growing.

[kup]

Options and ideas area always being considered and thrown around from time to time, but when it comes down to funding, I seemed to be the only one willing to donate the bulk of the hundreds or thousands required for our past Cons & Booths at other Cons.
The last one I funded (in 2006) required me to sacrifice going to BotCon and max out my credit cards, which put me off for a while. Since then, we've seen an increase in conventions in this country, so perhaps the demand is growing.

What is needed is at least a group of about 5 determined investors willing to put in at least a few thousand dollars into it knowing that there may be no return. On top of that, we would also need a proper organizer and some promotional backing not necessarily from Hasbro but in the form of outlets such as Madman, JB-Hifi, EB or some other place where geeks go.

After that we would need proper promotion - This is the key to success. If there is no promotion, there are no people, it's that simple. To succeed you have to get the crowds who don't necessarily hang around in toy collecting or geek circles but the 'everyday' guy. Events like Sabretron were also lacking when it comes to promotion as you had to stumble into it or be within the local toy collecting community to know about it. I remember back then when I had not joined any toy collecting communities and was unable to find any information about local conventions despite it being on the following weekend. I only found out about it after I joined the board and somebody pointed me out to it but that was a week after it ended.

So basically what is needed is:

- Committed financial backing
- A circle of committed organizers
- Backing from major retailers (two or three should suffice) with kiosks similar to how they do it for Supanova.
- Private toy dealers (spread word to sellers at Parra fair).
- Some celebrity backing like a voice actor or at least some sort of professional display (Glass cabinets with labels, like a museum or Toy fair).
- Good events and activities (Can't be just trivia quizzes, you need something better and fun with decent prices).
- Someone to go up on stage and entertain crowds (Comedy, narrative of the history of TFs with slide shows, videos, etc, A live toy review, etc).
- Proper advertisement (newspapers, fliers, online, if possible radio, etc).

Exclusive toys and whatnot would just be icing on the cake, you want people to first know that the event exists and then make sure they have a good time while attending.

Personally, I would be willing to put thousands into this but I need to see some proper organization and determination which is something that I am yet to see. I know that I will not get a return on my money but at the very least I would like to see it used properly.

[jazzy_josh]

So basically what is needed is:

- Committed financial backing
- A circle of committed organizers
- Backing from major retailers (two or three should suffice) with kiosks similar to how they do it for Supanova.
- Private toy dealers (spread word to sellers at Parra fair).
- Some celebrity backing like a voice actor or at least some sort of professional display (Glass cabinets with labels, like a museum or Toy fair).
- Good events and activities (Can't be just trivia quizzes, you need something better and fun with decent prices).
- Someone to go up on stage and entertain crowds (Comedy, narrative of the history of TFs with slide shows, videos, etc, A live toy review, etc).
- Proper advertisement (newspapers, fliers, online, if possible radio, etc).

Exclusive toys and whatnot would just be icing on the cake, you want people to first know that the event exists and then make sure they have a good time while attending.

Personally, I would be willing to put thousands into this but I need to see some proper organization and determination which is something that I am yet to see. I know that I will not get a return on my money but at the very least I would like to see it used properly.

Now I know that we would love the exclusive toys but that is something that once the convention has a name behind itself so hasbro can invest that. What you need to look at instead of JB HI-FI as geeks and collectors don't really go there a great deal only to get what they can't from else where is sponsors like

Gifts for the Geek http://www.giftsforthegeek.com.au/
First Contact Conventions http://www.firstcontactconventions.com.au/
and
Culture Shock Events http://www.cultureshockevents.com/

Now in regards to voice actors, I spoke to that guy in pm and he said that if any organizer wishes to talk to him about his contacts that they must directly speak to him directly.
Also you dont want to many glass cabnets as they may get broken and they take up a lot of space as well. Pop Culture conventions don't tend to have them unless that is what your stall is all about and then what would you display in them because it would be impossible to put every single transformer into display cases that would take up one or two stalls.

With trivia competition you need it to opened to any one and every one that is from beginner like myself to all the way up to some one say with your knowledge kup, so that every one feels they have a fair chance at winning. Also to have different catagories of pop culture mixed in not all questions on the one subject.

Some games that armageddon play are pizza eating contests, sweet and sour contests, ice cream contests as well as cosplay contests so these are things you need to look at, no talent required contests that are fun.

A mc is given you need some one who can sell to a crowd get them riled up and won't be a stiff on stage because if they are a stiff you wont get the crowd excited. Also if you have a fanatical fan they will only focus on the things they like. This may prove good to other fans that know that person for those things that the voice actor did but what if other fans dont know him for that, they want to feel included have their favorite shows mentioned so you rile them up with the big ones that the actor did because people will know those ones. You need some one who touches breifly on the big things that people all know about and speaks clearly and lowd as that way people can hear them.

Having a transformer convention purely in Australia may be a bad idea as every one thinks that the movie line is dead because and there is nothing in the cinemas, you would need a big draw card for this to happen, that's why I say a pop culture convention is best.

Proper advertisement yes we would need to get on atleast some big web pages going on comic book shops around the country and even maybe trying to get onto a kids tv show or two as that way kids will pesture their parents to drag them to it.

Kids is where the big cash is, drag them and drag teenagers and they will spend a lot more money and that is what will make stall holders happy. Get a web page up and advertise the main stall holders and that will make people happy.

When it comes to stall hodlers you should have packages up, so that if stall holders pay more they get better locations ie closer to the door and advertisement up on the web site.

[GoktimusPrime]

What is needed is at least a group of about 5 determined investors willing to put in at least a few thousand dollars into it knowing that there may be no return.
So what we would need would be donors, really. The word 'invest' implies returns.


Also you dont want to many glass cabnets as they may get broken and they take up a lot of space as well.
For 2003 dirge and I scoured some furniture stores and found some display cabinets that were on their last legs which we got for cheap. They weren't the kind you'd keep for your own personal collection display, but for something "disposable" to use for a single weekend display, they worked just fine.


With trivia competition you need it to opened to any one and every one that is from beginner like myself to all the way up to some one say with your knowledge kup, so that every one feels they have a fair chance at winning.
That's what we've always done with triv... varying different levels of difficulty.


Also to have different catagories of pop culture mixed in not all questions on the one subject.
We've done that too in the past... mixed G1 with G2 with Beast Wars with Beast Machines with Japanese G1 etc. ;)


Some games that armageddon play are pizza eating contests, sweet and sour contests, ice cream contests as well as cosplay contests so these are things you need to look at, no talent required contests that are fun.
We had TF related competitions at Sabretron, like Throttlebot racing (although contestants were informed to bring their own Throttlebots). The winner was a dude from Canberra who had pre-tested all his Throttlebots to see which ones would run the fastest and apparently he was still practising the night before the convention in his hotel room! :D


Having a transformer convention purely in Australia may be a bad idea as every one thinks that the movie line is dead because and there is nothing in the cinemas, you would need a big draw card for this to happen, that's why I say a pop culture convention is best.
...isn't that what SupaNova is?

Rather than attempting to compete with SupaNova, I'd recommend simply doing something much cheaper and easier and organising an OTCA booth at SupaNova. Organising conventions, especially full blown pop culture/media conventions is extremely difficult and I think Daniel Z does a top job every year with SupaNova conventions around the country. If you want to see any specific celebs come to SupaNova, LMK -- I'll forward the suggestion to Daniel and see what happens. If Daniel agrees then he'll do all the footwork etc. needed to get that celeb down here. We already had two Transformer celebs at last year's SupaNova (did Shane McCarthy attend any of the other SupaNovas outside Sydney?)


Proper advertisement yes we would need to get on atleast some big web pages going on comic book shops around the country and even maybe trying to get onto a kids tv show or two as that way kids will pesture their parents to drag them to it.
Again the advantage of doing the booth at SupaNova is that the promotion is already done... SupaNova itself will crowds -- all we have to do is be there.

Perhaps start with doing a SupaNova booth first before considering doing your own full blown pop culture media convention?


When it comes to stall hodlers you should have packages up, so that if stall holders pay more they get better locations ie closer to the door and advertisement up on the web site.
Yeah, also get a flyer or something to put into the showbag that all attendees get.

Now the question is - if you guys were to organise a convention stall or booth (booths are bigger, better located and more expensive than stalls); what would you sell? At previous SupaNova there were other vendors there that sold Transformer toys - loose and sealed, some Japanese exclusives etc. What would make your booth stand out from the others?

Having things like Transformer related games like trivia might help. You could ask SupaNova to allocate a specific time on stage to run a quick Transformers trivia competition (don't know if you'd have to pay for that privilege)... if not, run the contest at the booth and ask SupaNova to make a PA announcement to tell people to come on down to your booth to play. :) Might need a portable microphone/speaker for the booth (I have a small mic speaker, but not a mic itself).

What I did at SMASH! 2009 was to run trivia throughout the day -- every player got a free exclusive comic book, and every correct answer got a draw to win the exclusive draw-prize toy at the end of the convention (thus the more answers correctly answered, the more chances to win the toy). At Sabretron 2004 we asked random trivia questions over the PA every 15 minutes and the first person to come to the stage and supply a correct answer would win a prize. Then we had the main trivia competition were we had several contestants sit up on stage and answer a series of questions - we had prizes for everyone, but the best prize for the person with the most points. :)

LMK if you need any help with trivia questions/answers. :D

[jazzy_josh]

The only problem is that you're thinking one genre, this day and age sorry to say Goktimus but sadly anime is what draws the kids. The kids don't know the japanese beast wars series so they want the same voice actors over and over and over again. Personally I dont like Supanova due to the fact that I find it unorganized especially last years sydney one. I know a lot of stall owners and they all said that Daniel was unorganized and that even Brisbane was unorganized for stall holders. Supanova only gets really what they want and who they think is popular at the time, ever noticed how many times Vic mignogna has came, one guy brought this up on the Supanova page and he was right the guy practicly lives in Australia lol.

Look at how many pop culture conventions are out there, you have Supanova, Armageddon and Oz Comic Con so I doubt another one is going to hurt considering that there is how many anime convnetions out there compared to the number of Pop Culture ones.

If you want a proper booth in which people will go to I would say Oz Comic Con or Armageddon as they are designed mainly around the Western pop culture where Supanova as some have pointed out focus mainly around the Eastern pop culture as that draws them more money in for them with the International MadMan cosplay comp.

Running a pop culture convention is a next step up from booth as you guys have already done it but the problem was you went mainly one culture and not around pop culture in general. A transformers convention in Australia wouldn't work out unless you have the numbers to make a profit and as you guys have said we sadly dont have those numbers and mass public won't attend unless you a big name actor going.

[jena]

This conversation just keeps going round and round in circles....

[UltraMagnus]

This conversation just keeps going round and round in circles....

Exactly. Maybe my marketing team should get involved doing this. Convention exclusives are easy providing you can have 2000+ attend.

[jena]

If people here are serious about this we need to start simple, create a team.

The first thing to be cleared up is: booth @ Armageddon or stand alone convention.

Then we need to find some investors, some people who have experience doing this, people who are willing to volunteer their time. I am a graphic designer so I can lend my skills to that department and I'd love to represent the female TF fans at a booth.

The debating needs to be put aside and replaced with some actual brainstorming and planning.

[GoktimusPrime]

I agree. Actions speak louder than words. First thing's first - someone has to put their hand up to volunteer as the lead organiser for this thing (not me, sorry).

Here's some suggestions:

+ Definitely recommend doing a booth over a stand alone convention.

+ Location: One of the major east coast capital cities: Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane. Probably whichever city is closest to the majority of people organising the con. e.g. if jena were to organise this con, then I'd suggest holding it in Melbourne.

[jena]

I would love to organize something but I lack th experience. If others were willing to help and support me, then I'd be all for it.

[kup]

I would love to organize something but I lack th experience. If others were willing to help and support me, then I'd be all for it.

Lack of experience is fine as long as you have a creative mind and another person who can balance it out when it comes to practicality.

Personally, I think that enthusiasm and creativity are critical at this point as that is what has been lacking IMO.

[Cat]

I've organised music events (when I was younger) and community events more recently, ranging from attendance in the hundreds to thousands (low end thousands though).

I just can't see TF being a big enough draw to be worth it, even as a tax write-off.

I've seen a well-funded Star Wars event, run during the prime of the prequels, with BIG-NAME guests, fail to hit 50 attendees. This was also well publicised.

I think you'd be much better off just organising something at a town hall, but again, you're stuck with the issue of content.

Why should people go to this event, as opposed to discussing things online for free? What are the attractions? What can you offer?

Even at Supanova, TF events haven't done all that well, from my observations.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, SupaNova has plenty of other toy dealers who sell TF toys, so the challenge would be to make yourself stand out from those other dealers. Exclusive merchandise would be cool, but then there's the "challenge" of dealing with Hasbro Australia (cough) who insist on a minimum order of 1000 units for an exclusive toy (are you really gonna sell that many??) and $10,000 for licensing. :eek:

You can't make and sell fan-made stuff, cos Hasbro definitely doesn't like that. We charged money for the 2003 OzFormer comic at SupaNova and Hasbro was NOT happy with that (thankfully they chose not to take any legal action, but did tell me not to do it again). So for 2004 we gave away all the exclusive unlicensed comics and toys as free gifts to attendees. Likewise at SMASH! 2009 the comics were given away to anyone who played the TF trivia game, and the exclusive toy was a lucky draw prize - so we never explicitly charged anyone for any of the exclusive unlicensed stuff.

One possibility that Hasbro Australia would be willing to let you do is to sell BotCon exclusive toys at your booth/stall. You will need to order them directly from Hasbro AU - paid in full, then it's up to you to sell it. But consider the following:
+ BotCon AU can only offer you previous BotCon toys, like the ones from last year. They cannot offer you toys from this year's BotCon.
+ Most hardcore fans who seriously wanted previous years' BotCon toys probably already have them -- even if they had to shell out some stupid amount on eBay for them. :rolleyes:
+ See how much Hasbro AU's gonna charge you for them and how much you can sell them for. Try to keep them cheap, because that's gonna be your main advantage over say people just going online and buying them. Don't make the same mistake that some brick and mortar stores do by making their products more expensive than online sources. ;)
+ Hasbro AU's going to insist on a minimum order amount. I don't remember how much it was - but then again, I was making these enquiries in 2003-04, back when BotCon only made individual exclusive figures rather than box sets like they do now. You need to consider whether or not you'll be able to sell all these figures that you would have already paid for at the convention. If not, will you try to sell them here on the board? (I'd buy some! :D)

Now I personally would love to attend a convention if you guys were selling BotCon toys, because my BotCon toy collection is quite small (because I don't believe in paying inflated prices); and if you sold the toys at or close to their original sale prices, then I'd seriously considering filling in the gaps in my BotCon collection and buy off you. And if the convention were outside of Sydney and at a time that I couldn't make (because for some daft reason conventions always seem to occur outside of school holidays!!), then I would definitely be interested in ordering some of those toys off you (again, if the price was right :p).

Transformer themed games and what not are fun, but I think the one draw-factor that would pull in a crowd more than anything else would be some kind of exclusive merchandise. I mean, look at Micron Aimless (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transformers-Prime-Campaign-Microns-Aimless-minicon-MOSC-/400267788551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d31d1c107) -- I managed to pick up two of them in Japan because some retailers give them to you as a free exclusive toy when you spend 3000JPY or more on Transformers. That's the only official way to get this toy (and the other campaign exclusive Microns, I also have Fracas (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAKARA-TRANSFORMERS-UNITED-Minicon-Fracas-/200706036968?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionF igures_JN&hash=item2ebb0314e8)) -- but look at the stupid prices that people are selling them for on eBay! :eek: Just for some repaints of Power Core Combiner Mini-Cons... far out (I don't know what's scarier... that people are charging these outrageous prices or that people would be willing to pay such outrageous prices). But anyway, TF collectors are suckers for exclusive stuff... so ya know...

[kup]

I've organised music events (when I was younger) and community events more recently, ranging from attendance in the hundreds to thousands (low end thousands though).

I just can't see TF being a big enough draw to be worth it, even as a tax write-off.

I've seen a well-funded Star Wars event, run during the prime of the prequels, with BIG-NAME guests, fail to hit 50 attendees. This was also well publicised.

I think you'd be much better off just organising something at a town hall, but again, you're stuck with the issue of content.

Why should people go to this event, as opposed to discussing things online for free? What are the attractions? What can you offer?

Even at Supanova, TF events haven't done all that well, from my observations.

I am afraid that this contributes to my believe and fear that Australian society does not harbor much of a geek culture unlike other countries.

I don't think population size or spread is the issue, it's just that there isn't enough ratio within that population that would be interested in attending such an event even if they were local.

If a convention is to succeed, it can't be just about Transformers or even Sci-Fi, it has to engulf every aspect of popular culture (even sports) to succeed here.

[Cat]

I am afraid that this contributes to my believe and fear that Australian society does not harbor much of a geek culture unlike other countries.

I don't think population size or spread is the issue, it's just that there isn't enough ratio within that population that would be interested in attending such an event even if they were local.

If a convention is to succeed, it can't be just about Transformers or even Sci-Fi, it has to engulf every aspect of popular culture (even sports) to succeed here.

Exactly.

What is the drawcard?

What are people going to be entertained with at YOUR convention?

You'll struggle to fill up 2 hours, let alone a whole day, let ALONE a whole weekend, and that's including the hypothetical special guest making it appealing to your audience (who you have to pay, feed, cover hotel etc. You'd better be able to pull that money back, or you're already ruined months before anything's been done).

It's just sadly, not feasible on the level we wish it was.

And that's simply not going to change.

We have the broader Supanova, and even that doesn't have the rock-solid success and associated finances you'd expect.

That's as good as we're gonna get. Hell, Comic-Con in Adelaide? That alone is going to be interesting.

[jena]

I'd rather try a stall/booth before anything else. If that is popular then we could try for a full convention. If a stall at another event falls flat on its face, at least the losses won't be as bad.

[kup]

I'd rather try a stall/booth before anything else. If that is popular then we could try for a full convention. If a stall at another event falls flat on its face, at least the losses won't be as bad.


It's easy to put a stall but what do we do in it? We don't have much to sell that would be of interest to crowds so how can we entertain them? It has to last for about 2 full days and people have a tendency to do 'rounds' at an event so we can't be too repetitive or just be a 'sales' table.

I am just trying to encourage ideas..If we can have a decently organized plan for this stall, then we can progress from there. Remember that our main audience is still the 'passing fan' that just remembers Transformers from his childhood or the Bay movies.

[jena]

I don't know if this idea is dumb or not, but there are a lot of talented toy photographers on this forum, so we could sell prints of their photos.

I wonder if maybe some of the people who do awesome customs could come along, display some previous work and maybe even do a repaint during the weekend to auction off? Or even little tutorials.

[kup]

I don't know if this idea is dumb or not, but there are a lot of talented toy photographers on this forum, so we could sell prints of their photos.

I wonder if maybe some of the people who do awesome customs could come along, display some previous work and maybe even do a repaint during the weekend to auction off? Or even little tutorials.

That is not a dumb idea at all! It is actually pretty good if done with that professional quality we have seen from members.

However that is one idea and if priced well enough, it may be of appeal to several people but may not be all. So we would need more ideas to cover that 'wide appeal' margin.

[jena]

That is not a dumb idea at all! It is actually pretty good if done with that professional quality we have seen from members.

However that is one idea and if priced well enough, it may be of appeal to several people but may not be all. So we would need more ideas to cover that 'wide appeal' margin.

Cool! I don't have any other ideas at this point, sadly.

[jazzy_josh]

Personally guys we need to advertise this as a pop culture convention honestly another one won't hurt Australia because we don't have the numbers for a stand alone tf convention. If it was pure anime then yes we would but tf's no sadly.

If we can draw teh attention of the Anime fans then quite possibly as they would be come since the tf voice actors are the harder to get anime voice actors especially for the final fantasy games. Also we need to advertise to the population in full, comic shops every where as well as larger book shops like kinokuniya in Sydney.

If you are serious about doing a stand alone tf convention I could ask the guys I know to see if they would like to help and ask one of my contacts to see who he knows and contacts for them. But if you did you would have to seel other items besides transformers, selling items from other series that the voice actors are a good idea becuse that way the fans can get what they want as well besides from transformers and get that signed.

As for competitions cosplay comps are good to do but it will lacking if it is limited to just transformers. Also you may want to do the racing comp as well as a kitbash comp, but also have other competitions that non transformer fans can enter as that way every one can enjoy them selves and have a good time.

So if any one wants I can help out but I need to know what we are doing before I can help.

[jena]

We aren't focusing on a convention, we're focusing on a booth/stall. Please take note of the previous posts. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but this thread is just going around in circles and we need to focus if we are going to get things done. At this point we are trying to brainstorm ideas to draw people to a stall/booth. Please focus on your efforts on that for now.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'd rather try a stall/booth before anything else. If that is popular then we could try for a full convention. If a stall at another event falls flat on its face, at least the losses won't be as bad.
Smart idea! :)


I don't know if this idea is dumb or not, but there are a lot of talented toy photographers on this forum, so we could sell prints of their photos.
Fan art is another option. We had fan-drawn posters which we sold at SupaNova 2003. The problem with this is Hasbro and whether or not you'd be trampling on their copyright/intellectual property. And yes, Hasbro do care. We sold fan made comics and posters at SupaNova 2003 because I had mistakenly thought that Hasbro had given us approval, but this wasn't the case. Hasbro thankfully decided not to take action against me, so for the next convention I wanted to make damn sure that I had their approval before going ahead and selling any exclusive merchandise; and that's when they told me that I would need to pay $10,000 for their licensing fee (so instead I ended up giving away the merchandise away for free to attendees).

So if you're thinking about producing Transformers merchandise, such as photographs or fan art, and selling it at the booth/stall... then I recommend you investigate and see if there are any legal ramifications for this.


I wonder if maybe some of the people who do awesome customs could come along, display some previous work and maybe even do a repaint during the weekend to auction off? Or even little tutorials.
A customs display sounds like a nifty. Maybe customisers could submit photos of their customs rather risk shipping them and having them damaged -- unless they're willing to come to the convention early, drop the customs off at the booth and pick it up at the end of the con (or pick the toy up off you later at a fan meet or something).

Tutorials sound like a neat idea. You could also do the same for drawing if there are any talented artists who want to come along and show people how to draw transforming robots. ;)

Another suggestion is Transformers Trivia games. I can give you a whole list of questions of varying levels of difficulty for you; I still have a list of triv questions from previous conventions/events and I can easily add some more (and I'm sure others would be willing to submit questions too).

But in 2003 we just had a booth where griffin sold some comics and we displayed some toys and sold our exclusive comic and posters, but we didn't sell any toys. We ran a survey asking people what they most wanted to see in a Transformers convention and the overwhelmingly most popular answer was TOYS... people want to buy toys.

So your first priority must be to get toy sellers. Contact some local dealers or whatever -- contact local fans and see who's willing to bring toys to sell. One option is to ask everyone to put the toys they want to sell into ziplock bags and send you a list of the toys they want and how much they want for them (and whether or not they're willing to have their prices negotiated). Then when they submit the toys to you, put a colour-coded or numbered sticker on each bag - each colour/number code unique to that seller. So for example, if I gave you a whole box of toys I wanted to sell, you could put an orange sticker on each of my baggies and write "GOK" on each sticker. And of course, I would have to also provide a print out of what those toys are and how much I'd like to sell them for.

That way you can have a lot of toys at your booth/stall but without cluttering it full of people trying to sell them. :) You might even ask other sellers to pay a reasonable sum to help pay for booth/stall hire (which I think is fair enough - you're spending your time and effort to help sell other people's toys, they might as well contribute to paying for the cost of the booth/stall).

Now once upon a time, this alone might have been enough. But these days you're gonna have competition as there are several different vendors at conventions like SupaNova now who sell Transformer toys... so you're not going to be the only one. So think about more things that will make your booth/stall stand out; and I think exclusive merchandise might be the way to go.

For example, you might make an exclusive, like say an exclusive set of postcards (with fan made toy photos and artwork; the reverse side of each post card could contain a random TF fact ;)) - give them away as freebies for anyone who makes a purchase from your booth/stall.

As kup mentioned before, you're going to need to raise a considerable amount of money to spend on this booth and other associated costs (e.g. postcards) without expecting any returns. You're going to need sponsors.

[jena]

I appreciate your advice from previous experience Gok, it will be a valuable asset.

I think I need to create a team and allocate jobs. I can only do so much. Especially from Mildura.

Perhaps even a new thread.

[kup]

I think that it's clear that for us to progress anywhere, we need to exclude Hasbro as a factor because they are more of a deterrent than a facilitator.

Yeah, I know that there is a risk of annoying them and possible consequences from that but given their overall 'blind eye' attitude to intellectual property infringement (KOs at Botcon anyone?) there is a good chance that their overall neglect could benefit us.

It would basically be a 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy. I am sure that Hasbro won't give a damn unless we make them aware of it.

[liegeprime]

I think that it's clear that for us to progress anywhere, we need to exclude Hasbro as a factor because they are more of a deterrent than a facilitator.

Yeah, I know that there is a risk of annoying them and possible consequences from that but given their overall 'blind eye' attitude to intellectual property infringement (KOs at Botcon anyone?) there is a good chance that their overall neglect could benefit us.

It would basically be a 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy. I am sure that Hasbro won't give a damn unless we make them aware of it.

Dat be true... it's just sad, coz overseas Hasbro offices ( particularly in Asia) "cooperate" with the fanclubs as they know this gets more media exposure for their products and all that positive stuff... here... I just dont get them:(

Just a question though, there is that TF toy convention called Dairycon if Im not mistaken - they're about TFs as well and yet they pull off yearly conventions, are they Hasbro sanctioned or they just dont care and go ahead with whatever?

[Paulbot]

Just a question though, there is that TF toy convention called Dairycon if Im not mistaken - they're about TFs as well and yet they pull off yearly conventions, are they Hasbro sanctioned or they just dont care and go ahead with whatever?

I was wondering about them too after seeing the G1 Cosmos repaint today. How exactly they get away with making their exclusives of toys of not recently used molds.

[kup]

Dat be true... it's just sad, coz overseas Hasbro offices ( particularly in Asia) "cooperate" with the fanclubs as they know this gets more media exposure for their products and all that positive stuff... here... I just dont get them:(

Just a question though, there is that TF toy convention called Dairycon if Im not mistaken - they're about TFs as well and yet they pull off yearly conventions, are they Hasbro sanctioned or they just dont care and go ahead with whatever?

I don't think they are fully sponsored by Hasbro but I think that they do have some dealings when it comes to ordering exclusive toys otherwise where would they get them from and in enough quantities? However then again, I believe that con is relatively small so they would not be able to order Hasbro's 'minimum' amount and cover their costs yet it's a successful yearly event.

Well thinking about it, relatively small is probably huge by Australian standards..



I was wondering about them too after seeing the G1 Cosmos repaint today. How exactly they get away with making their exclusives of toys of not recently used molds.

I could be wrong but I think that as long as they are available for production, you can order them from Hasbro just as retail stores have exclusives. The molds may be old but they are current production molds which were fairly recently used.

[jena]

I tried to get some ideas out of my dad yesterday, he's a model railroader so I asked if he had any ideas that we could steal from train cons. He said that they do a customizing/kitbashing thing like I mentioned, where someone does a custom/kitbash throughout the weekend and people can walk by to see them doing it and then it's auctioned off at the end of the con which is exactly what I was talking about so I just thought that was cool.

Still struggling to come up with any other ideas. My mum suggested a comic but I told her about the issues with that. Would creating our own little aussie posse of TFs avoid issues? I mean, if we come up with our own characters, surely that's innocent enough to avoid problems.

[kup]

I tried to get some ideas out of my dad yesterday, he's a model railroader so I asked if he had any ideas that we could steal from train cons. He said that they do a customizing/kitbashing thing like I mentioned, where someone does a custom/kitbash throughout the weekend and people can walk by to see them doing it and then it's auctioned off at the end of the con which is exactly what I was talking about so I just thought that was cool.

Still struggling to come up with any other ideas. My mum suggested a comic but I told her about the issues with that. Would creating our own little aussie posse of TFs avoid issues? I mean, if we come up with our own characters, surely that's innocent enough to avoid problems.

We could easily do something similar to what the 3rd parties do in regards to comics. Use original characters in a world that is familiar to the reader yet never addressed by name.

Remember that Hasbro owns Transformers but not the 'transforming robots fighting a civil war' license.

[liegeprime]

We could easily do something similar to what the 3rd parties do in regards to comics. Use original characters in a world that is familiar to the reader yet never addressed by name.

Remember that Hasbro owns Transformers but not the 'transforming robots fighting a civil war' license.

Well there was those minibots (recoloured) characters already made up by Gok at Sabretron before, and these were Aussie inspired ones, Maybe you could use those plus any new characters so we can build our own little nook of characters...

You can also use my avatar character (shameless plug incoming)- Nightfall - he's more of a guardian like duty fella - a good guy with a bad temper....and a power sword and tech to back it up heheh:D he also likes collecting (erhmrm hoarder...) energon cubes and used to photobomb my early acquisition pics heheheh... In fact there are a lot of fellow members here I believe who has their own characters made up - why don't you just use em instead for a comic story?

Here's Nightfall

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb313/liegeprime/Othercollectibles061-1.jpg

[kup]

Nightfall vs Sofaman! :D

[liegeprime]

Nightfall vs Sofaman! :D

He's more likely to rest on Sofaman counting his energon chippies til he falls on temporary shutdown heheheh

[GoktimusPrime]

We could easily do something similar to what the 3rd parties do in regards to comics. Use original characters in a world that is familiar to the reader yet never addressed by name.

Remember that Hasbro owns Transformers but not the 'transforming robots fighting a civil war' license.

Actually... that's not a bad idea!

In Sabretron 2004 we had four exclusive unlicensed toys (given away free to attendees) -- all based in Australia with an Australian themed background story, but they've never seen any fictional appearance aside from the toys. If you like I can give you the characters' names and profiles and you can use them in your story. The toys themselves were repaints of G1 Bumblebee, Cliffjumper, Brawn and Windcharger (called Spectre, Breaker, Muckraker and Minesweeper respectively; they were part of an Australian-based group of Autobots known as Chainmasters) -- but you could simply get an artist to draw up some models that happen to look similar to these character moulds, but not quite the same. Similar enough that fans would recognise them, but different enough that you're steering away from Hasbro's property.

The names and personas were stuff that we'd created, so Hasbro's never owned them. :) Heck, we're seeing IDW doing something similar with the "Circuit Smasher" character (since the G1 Circuit Breaker character is still owned by Marvel).

Whether you'd like to run with the Chainmasters or just create your own original characters is up to you -- but I like the idea of making them "Not-Transformers." ;) You could even ask someone to design Not-Autobot and Not-Decepticon logos. :D

You could even have established characters appear, but just make them look obscure -- like have Optimus Prime or Megatron covered in darkness, and what you can see doesn't look exactly the same (just as what they do with third party comics)... then just have them referred to as "Commander" or "My Lord" or whatever, but never by name.

I like this idea. :D

This would allow you to have your exclusive comic and sell it without impeding on Hasbro's IP. Maybe you could also have posters, keychains, badges etc?

Here's an idea for an exclusive toy, but I don't know if it's any good. Go to your local Asian markets/stores and buy up a butt load of those cheap transforming robot toys -- you know those ones that look like they're not made by a licensed manufacturer but aren't really knock offs. Some of them may have a head or arm or something that's KOed from another toy, but the entire figure itself isn't a bootleg. Kinda like Roadbots, only cheaper (although Roadbots are pretty inexpensive - but I think they're licensed... those cheap Chinese ones look unlicensed to me). Go and repaint those toys and sell them as exclusives.

If you're worried about them being possibly licensed, here's another suggestion (and you might be able to do this with Roadbots or even Transformers if you choose a small/cheap enough mould and order a caseload wholesale (you might be able to order a caseload from Hasbro??)); repaint the toy(s) and include them as free gifts with the exclusive comic. You just may need to charge more for the comic book, if you get my meaning. <cough> But make it clear that you are only selling the comic book which doesn't contain any of Hasbro's IP - arguably an expensive comic book - and include the toy for "free."

...remember when I said that all the free exclusive toys and comics were only available to attendees at Sabretron 2004? i.e. People who had already paid to attend the convention? Yeah. ;) This has been done before with exclusive toys where for some legal reason the toy couldn't be technically sold... so technically they weren't. e.g. Rook (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rook_%28Universe%29) and Tap-Out (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Tap-Out_%28G1%29#Expanded_Universe)... both toys were initially given away as freebies to pre-registrants for BotCon Europe 2002 and BotCon USA 2002 respectively (and later on made available for sale on 3H's online store when the legal issue was cleared up).

So if you like, go grab some shelf/peg warming Legions/Legends Class toys, have some volunteers repaint them (that's what we did for the Sabretron figures - they were all hand painted by volunteers) and then get an artist to draw a "Not-Transformer" version of that toy that looks recognisable but is different, then include that character model in your exclusive "Not-Transformer" comic book. Sell the comic book and include the toy as a 'freebie.' ;)

[Paulbot]

I could be wrong but I think that as long as they are available for production, you can order them from Hasbro just as retail stores have exclusives. The molds may be old but they are current production molds which were fairly recently used.

Cosmos hasn't had a production run since 2005 but I guess it could still be available, but last year they reused the Pretender Bumblebee shell and that surely hasn't been reproduced in nearly 20 years?


The toys themselves were repaints of G1 Bumblebee, Cliffjumper, Brawn and Windcharger (called Spectre, Breaker, Muckraker and Minesweeper respectively; they were part of an Australian-based group of Autobots known as Chainmasters) -- but you could simply get an artist to draw up some models that happen to look similar to these character moulds, but not quite the same.

That's what they did in 1984. Those mini-bots in the cartoon look similar to the toys (in vehicle mode), but in robot mode it's a bit of a stretch. :p

[jena]

This all sounds so freaking awesome! I love it.

I can draw, but I've never attempted comic art. But I'm sure I could do it. I mean, I drew this (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/boneyards/drawing.png) on Australia day because I was bored.

[liegeprime]

This all sounds so freaking awesome! I love it.

I can draw, but I've never attempted comic art. But I'm sure I could do it. I mean, I drew this (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/boneyards/drawing.png) on Australia day because I was bored.

Wow, you should be bored more often ;)...

[kup]

This all sounds so freaking awesome! I love it.

I can draw, but I've never attempted comic art. But I'm sure I could do it. I mean, I drew this (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/boneyards/drawing.png) on Australia day because I was bored.

Wow! You are very talented!

[Cat]

That's pretty damn impressive artwork.

[Bartrim]

This all sounds so freaking awesome! I love it.

I can draw, but I've never attempted comic art. But I'm sure I could do it. I mean, I drew this (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/boneyards/drawing.png) on Australia day because I was bored.

Awesome work. Love the saints.

[Hursticon]

This all sounds so freaking awesome! I love it.

I can draw, but I've never attempted comic art. But I'm sure I could do it. I mean, I drew this (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/boneyards/drawing.png) on Australia day because I was bored.

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Webpics/AnotherTriumph.gif


That's bloody top work Jena! :eek::cool:

[jazzy_josh]

I would say if you could build the funds up and buy the stock instead of doing a fan stall have an actuall proper business stall at the convention, sell products. Be like the gifts for the geek guys hell they even get celebrities as well at their table and sell autographs and photos. But you would have to buy a licence from hasbro to do so though.

[kup]

But you would have to buy a licence from hasbro to do so though.

And that's where every single attempt at this has either been hindered or fallen apart. The best thing to do is just to exclude hasbro altogether.

[jazzy_josh]

You exclude them and then if they find out they can sue the forum or even worse the owner because sold property that was their's and I don't think any one wants that other wise it's stealing and if we're stealing I won't help out on that because I just don't feel comfortable and I don't want to take any part of that sorry. I will help in any other way but if it comes to merchandise or sales or anything illegal I just won't be part of sorry. No offence to any one but morally I can't and for my future career I can't have any criminal records at all.

[kup]

You exclude them and then if they find out they can sue the forum or even worse the owner because sold property that was their's and I don't think any one wants that other wise it's stealing and if we're stealing I won't help out on that because I just don't feel comfortable and I don't want to take any part of that sorry. I will help in any other way but if it comes to merchandise or sales or anything illegal I just won't be part of sorry. No offence to any one but morally I can't and for my future career I can't have any criminal records at all.

Isn't that a little melodramatic?

They can't sue us if we are not using their property. Hasbro does not own nor have sole rights to transforming robots. If we dont use any of their properties, we are perfectly legal.

[jazzy_josh]

It still sounds fishy to me and with me trying to get into a career that does criminal checks and one person here already said hasbro almost sued them for a fan based comic book I am sorry but no I can't and won't and I don't think it's being melodramatic at all.

[Cat]

You exclude them and then if they find out they can sue the forum or even worse the owner because sold property that was their's and I don't think any one wants that other wise it's stealing and if we're stealing I won't help out on that because I just don't feel comfortable and I don't want to take any part of that sorry. I will help in any other way but if it comes to merchandise or sales or anything illegal I just won't be part of sorry. No offence to any one but morally I can't and for my future career I can't have any criminal records at all.

This would fall under fair use (Admittedly, Goktimus' idea is stretching it, and I'd be wary of it, but that still doesn't fall under this category).

Any action would be civil, even if it WERE wrong, so nothing would show up on a criminal record.

Fan conventions happen all the time. There's things you can do, and things you can't. It's about finding the right line, being respectful of the IP you're wanting to celebrate, and being able to offer people a great experience.

So your scenario could only happen if a very narrow set of unlikely circumstances were met.

As for Goktimus' idea, well, it is technically viable, but not for me. It would fall too close for me to feel comfortable. But that is simply my opinion.

Look at something like the 'Mosaic' series of one-page stories. It's been going for years, with Hasbro's knowledge, no problems. There's just an internal editing procedure to make sure they stay within certain boundaries (no porn etc).

[kup]

I don't see it as 'too close'. That assumes that Hasbro owns the transforming robot license and that's not true.

Hasbro owns Transformers but not the concept of transforming robots. Heck, even the general 'G1 Transformer aesthetic' is not owned by Hasbro. As long as you keep your characters original and do not use any trademarked imagery or terms, you are perfectly legal and not 'getting too close' at all.

[GoktimusPrime]

It still sounds fishy to me and with me trying to get into a career that does criminal checks and one person here already said hasbro almost sued them for a fan based comic book I am sorry but no I can't and won't and I don't think it's being melodramatic at all.
That's because we explicitly used Transformer characters, likenesses, names etc. It was because at the time I mistakenly thought that Hasbro AU had given me approval -- it was an honest mistake and not done intentionally. Hasbro understood this which is why they took no action other than a verbal warning.

I'm not an expert in intellectual property law, but isn't there some kind of 'fair use' thing where if you change a certain proportion/percentage of an image, then it's no longer their property?

Hasbro does the similar things for trademarks they don't own, for example the Generations Straxus toy was called "Darkmount" because Hasbro couldn't secure the rights to the name "Straxus." Likewise "Jazz" is called "Autobot Jazz", except in Alternators where they couldn't even secure that name (because I think that toy also falls under the category of replica car), so they had to use the name "Meister." IDW's introducing a character called "Circuit Smasher," which appears to be their version of "Circuit Breaker" - a G1 character still owned by Marvel Comics (there's speculation that Circuit Smasher may be a relative of Circuit Breaker rather than being Circuit Breaker herself... himself... umm...)

The comics and posters should be easy enough to do if you tweak the character models enough - as Paulbot pointed out, Marvel/Sunbow did the same thing in the G1 comics/cartoon... look at Jetfire/Skyfire -- they had to make the comic/animation model look drastically different from the toy otherwise they would've been sued by Harmony Gold for "ripping off" Robotech.

As for the toys... I think it should be okay so long as you explicitly state that you're giving them away as freebies. As I mentioned before, it's been previously done before with BotCon exclusive toys that 3H weren't able to secure sales rights for like Rook and Tap-Out.

But anyway, if any of this concerns you seek professional legal advice before proceeding. In NSW there's a service called LawAccess which gives free legal advice -- I'm sure there are equivalent services in other states.

[Cat]

That's because we explicitly used Transformer characters, likenesses, names etc. It was because at the time I mistakenly thought that Hasbro AU had given me approval -- it was an honest mistake and not done intentionally. Hasbro understood this which is why they took no action other than a verbal warning.

I'm not an expert in intellectual property law, but isn't there some kind of 'fair use' thing where if you change a certain proportion/percentage of an image, then it's no longer their property?

Hasbro does the similar things for trademarks they don't own, for example the Generations Straxus toy was called "Darkmount" because Hasbro couldn't secure the rights to the name "Straxus." Likewise "Jazz" is called "Autobot Jazz", except in Alternators where they couldn't even secure that name (because I think that toy also falls under the category of replica car), so they had to use the name "Meister." IDW's introducing a character called "Circuit Smasher," which appears to be their version of "Circuit Breaker" - a G1 character still owned by Marvel Comics (there's speculation that Circuit Smasher may be a relative of Circuit Breaker rather than being Circuit Breaker herself... himself... umm...)

The comics and posters should be easy enough to do if you tweak the character models enough - as Paulbot pointed out, Marvel/Sunbow did the same thing in the G1 comics/cartoon... look at Jetfire/Skyfire -- they had to make the comic/animation model look drastically different from the toy otherwise they would've been sued by Harmony Gold for "ripping off" Robotech.

As for the toys... I think it should be okay so long as you explicitly state that you're giving them away as freebies. As I mentioned before, it's been previously done before with BotCon exclusive toys that 3H weren't able to secure sales rights for like Rook and Tap-Out.

But anyway, if any of this concerns you seek professional legal advice before proceeding. In NSW there's a service called LawAccess which gives free legal advice -- I'm sure there are equivalent services in other states.

Alternators Meister wasn't called 'Jazz' because that was the name of a different model of car, at the time.

'Fair use' wouldn't apply here. I think I know what you mean, but it's the wrong term. 'Fair use' would cover me if I was doing a review of a book you'd written, and I included short paragraphs from the book to illustrate my point. I can't just copy the WHOLE thing, but there's a certain amount I can copy for this review, that falls under 'Fair Use'. That's just one example.

It's also a fine line between a homage, and a swipe. Artists and creators have been struggling with that one for centuries.

Also, Jetfire wasn't changed because he would have 'ripped off' Harmony Gold, but more due to the fact that toy couldn't be solld in Japan, so they wanted it altered. That's from what people have been able to piece together anyway, there's still a bit of speculation involved. But Hasbro had the rights to the toy, so they could use it.

[jena]

If I remember correctly, my uni lecturers always used to say that if you change something by at least 10% it's fine and that was when I studied graphic design aka the industry of professional copycats. My understanding was that you could basically steal anyone's logo or whatever as long as you changed it in some way.

[jazzy_josh]

Also the japanese figure of darkmount is called straxus and to my understanding I thought takara and hasbro were in some sort of partnership in that deal or something. I'm sorry but no I still don't feel comfortable with it and I don't want to be sued for stealing of a company sorry.

Also Kup once Hasbro I dare say knows this site so once they see the "NOT" transformers merchandise and then see the site we are from they will put 2 and 2 together and get us there so I will say no I won't be participating in this as essentially you are planning on making knock off items of any merchandise which is against the law. Also that is against all convention policies and rules of merchandise rather it be sold or given. I say Knock off becuse if sold that is what it is, you can draw up the comics and posters and give them away but you can not sell them and if you plan on selling I wont be part of it.

[kup]

Also the japanese figure of darkmount is called straxus and to my understanding I thought takara and hasbro were in some sort of partnership in that deal or something. I'm sorry but no I still don't feel comfortable with it and I don't want to be sued for stealing of a company sorry.

Also Kup once Hasbro I dare say knows this site so once they see the "NOT" transformers merchandise and then see the site we are from they will put 2 and 2 together and get us there so I will say no I won't be participating in this as essentially you are planning on making knock off items of any merchandise which is against the law. Also that is against all convention policies and rules of merchandise rather it be sold or given. I say Knock off becuse if sold that is what it is, you can draw up the comics and posters and give them away but you can not sell them and if you plan on selling I wont be part of it.

So I can't do my own transforming robot event just because I post in a Transformers dedicated message board that happens not to be officially affiliated with Hasbro?

Sorry but again, Hasbro does not own the concept of transforming robots, they own the Transformers franchise. Therefore anyone is free to create their own unique transforming robots characters and stories as long as they don't infringe on copyright.

An originally created transforming robot character in toy form or fiction is not automatically a knock off - Hasbro does not own it and have no grounds to sue me. Actually, if they decide to rip it off themselves, I would have the grounds to sue them since it is my character not theirs.

I understand your concerns and respect why you would stay out of such a project but I still think that your statements are a bit over the top. You are assuming that if anyone that happens to post on this board creates their own transforming robot character fiction and publishes it, they are automatically infringing on Hasbro's IP - To me that is unreasonable.

[GoktimusPrime]

Also the japanese figure of darkmount is called straxus and to my understanding I thought takara and hasbro were in some sort of partnership in that deal or something.
That's because Japan and US have different trademark registers... often Takara can use a name that Hasbro can't because although Hasbro cannot acquire the name in the US, Takara can -- and sometimes vice versa. For example when Takara reissued Perceptor in the Transformers Collection series the toy was called "Cybertron Perceptor". Likewise Henkei Inferno is called "Cybertron Inferno." When Hasbro lost the rights to the name "Ravage" they used names like "Battle Ravage" and likewise "Shockblast" for "Shockwave" (although they seem to have regained the rights to those names now).

"Straxus" is most likely a name that was available for Takara to use, so they went ahead with it (although only hardcore G1 fans in Japan would get the reference since the Marvel Comics weren't available in Japan) -- but Hasbro couldn't secure the rights so they went with Darkmount.

Hasbro and Takara do have a partnership where they co-own the Transformers brand, but they can operate independently for their respective markets - hence why both companies will develop lines exclusively for their markets. e.g. Car Robot was originally developed by Takara just for their market and likewise Beast Machines was developed by Hasbro for theirs (even though later on both of these lines were "cross adapted" as RiD and Beast Wars Returns respectively).


I'm sorry but no I still don't feel comfortable with it and I don't want to be sued for stealing of a company sorry.
That's your choice. Most of us here aren't legal experts anyway, so I think the best thing to do for anyone thinking about doing this is to seek advice from a professional.


Also Kup once Hasbro I dare say knows this site so once they see the "NOT" transformers merchandise and then see the site we are from they will put 2 and 2 together and get us there so I will say no I won't be participating in this as essentially you are planning on making knock off items of any merchandise which is against the law.
Hasbro's been aware of OzFormers for a long, long time. One of Hasbro AU's executive employers was a member here for a while and Hasbro designer Eric Siebenaler has attended events/meets with members here.

Also, third party items aren't counterfeits; so it's more of a legal gray area. As kup said, Hasbro doesn't own the rights to transforming warring space robots -- heck, Transformers weren't even the first. Tonka's Gobots/Machine Men came before Transformers. And we still have other lines like Road-Bots and in Japan there are HEAPS of transforming mecha franchises outside of Transformers. In fact, Transformers was born from "ripping off" other transforming robot franchises like Diaclone, Microman, Dorvack, Mechabot-1, Beetras, Macross etc.!

A counterfeit is legally defined as something that is fraudulently made in imitation of another product and passed off deceptively as the real thing. If you create your own transforming robot - even if it bears some resemblance to a Transformer but is still pretty much your own creation, then ... well it's arguable/debatable if it's made "in imitation." I guess it depends on how much the robot/character resembles an existing robot/character from Transformers. For example, the Third Party Arcee toys are absolutely made in imitation of the G1 Arcee character model (even though it's not an imitation of an existing toy) -- thus HasTak would have reasonable grounds to claim that it's a violation of their IP. The same might be said about other third party toys based on HasTak characters too -- all those third party action figures out there like the Not-Insecticons, Not-Reflector etc.

But what we're suggesting here is NOT creating character models based on any existing Transformer characters - but rather creating unique transforming robot characters and portraying them as warring alien robots. If we're not going to bother with any toys, then we can be very creative with the designs and we don't need to make the resemble any existing Transformer at all. There's no way Hasbro could take legal action then, no more than they could take legal action against say Road Bots or Machine Robo... other people are allowed to make their own transforming robot characters, just as long as they don't look like any established Transformer characters.


Also that is against all convention policies and rules of merchandise rather it be sold or given. I say Knock off becuse if sold that is what it is, you can draw up the comics and posters and give them away but you can not sell them and if you plan on selling I wont be part of it.
You can sell them if they're your own unique creations. If they're drawings of existing characters then yeah, I'd say give them away as freebies - which is something I've always been advocating anyway - and that's what we did at the Sabretron 2004 convention as you may or may not recall. Attendees paid for admission to enter the convention, but once the toys and comics arrived they were given to all attendees free of charge. Likewise at subsequent stalls/booths at conventions I've only ever given away exclusive comics and toys as freebies - like when they participate in an event, or as a lucky draw prize. With the exception of SupaNova 2003 (which was an honest misunderstanding and not deliberate) all exclusive merchandise have been given away as freebies.

But I don't see any legal problems with selling merchandise if they are unique/original creations not based on any images or likenesses owned by Hasbro. Hasbro cannot claim ownership over something they don't own!

Take this for example...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/icecreambot.jpg
This is a transforming robot I once drew... he transforms into faeces^ice cream. His name is "Unchigar" in Japanese - the English name is "Scattor", but let's change it to "Scat-bot" (since Hasbro owns the literally crappy name "Scattor" :p)^Ice-Cream-Bot. Oh, and let's say we get rid of that Decepticon logo on his chest -- replace it with a silhouette logo of a pile of poo. Right. Now if I were to sell post cards of this transforming poo-bot under the name of "Unchigar" and/or "Scat-bot" Ice-Cream-Bot, Hasbro wouldn't be able to take legal action against me because this is MY original creation! He's NOT based on any Transformer character... so Hasbro doesn't own the design, I do.

Now, I'm not suggesting that we should make Scat-bot Ice-Cream-Bot the mascot for the convention booth or whatever... this is just an example. :p Look at the Animania mascots - they were intentionally created as "generic" look anime characters, but not based on any actual Japanese anime character so that they wouldn't need to pay royalties. It's as seemple as that. :D

[jazzy_josh]

Yeah but lets face it, if you did this approach you will be using character designs that make you instantly recognize the robot and the alt mode as well. Hey you guys said you were at SMASH! a few years back, what year was that because I have been going for a few years and I remember once seeing a crap load of transformers there and during the auction some one auctioned of a huge box of transformers, I missed out on buying that box because I ran out of cash sadly lol.

[kup]

Yeah but lets face it, if you did this approach you will be using character designs that make you instantly recognize the robot and the alt mode as well. Hey you guys said you were at SMASH! a few years back, what year was that because I have been going for a few years and I remember once seeing a crap load of transformers there and during the auction some one auctioned of a huge box of transformers, I missed out on buying that box because I ran out of cash sadly lol.

You keep missing the point that we would not be using recognizable Hasbro characters but original creations.

[jena]

You keep missing the point

You can say that again. Yet again this thread is going around in circles. I'm sorry but Josh, if you don't want anything to do with this, then please just leave this thread.

Personally, I see no problem with designing our own transformer ozformer robots. I'm a teacher, I have annual criminal checks, but I'm not freaking out here. Calm down and get creative or leave this thread so the rest of us can brainstorm some ideas.

[Cat]

I'm out.

I do NOT need to see a picture of transforming faeces, done by an adult. That's sick and unnecessary.


Disgusting.

[kup]

I'm out.

I do NOT need to see a picture of transforming faeces, done by an adult. That's sick and unnecessary.


Disgusting.

Yeah that drawing is not in good taste and I don't particularly like it myself but as Gok said, he only used it as an example to illustrate his point to Josh not as something we might use for any event that we may go forth with.

[jena]

I take it you guys never played with Tamagotchis, those things made poop look almost cute. I don't find cartoon poop offensive. Harden up guys.

[GL-Sideswipe]

just an idea.. kinda stupid. But if you're looking for ozformers transformer design ideas, you could try some beast wars like transformers that have australian native animals as the alternate modes. Or other stuff that disguises itself as australian icons, stubbies? a ute? a generic holden commodore or ford falcon ute transformer would be awesome! obviously you wouldnt design it to be identified by ford or holden but you get the idea yeah?

[kup]

just an idea.. kinda stupid. But if you're looking for ozformers transformer design ideas, you could try some beast wars like transformers that have australian native animals as the alternate modes. Or other stuff that disguises itself as australian icons, stubbies? a ute? a generic holden commodore or ford falcon ute transformer would be awesome! obviously you wouldnt design it to be identified by ford or holden but you get the idea yeah?

That could work as a mascot but not for an actual comic story. It would be a bit too cheesy I think.

[GL-Sideswipe]

Yeah I was meaning for a mascot, aussie beast wars comic would be way to cheesy aha.

[Paulbot]

Yeah I was meaning for a mascot, aussie beast wars comic would be way to cheesy aha.

Go back over a decade and I was working on Aussie Beast Wars characters and designs. But now I fear digging them up :o

[GL-Sideswipe]

Go back over a decade and I was working on Aussie Beast Wars characters and designs. But now I fear digging them up :o

Don't get me wrong, it is cheesy. But I still think its awesome. I would love to see some australian predacons and maximals :P

[Hursticon]

Don't get me wrong, it is cheesy. But I still think its awesome. I would love to see some australian predacons and maximals :P

Hell yeah! - Red-backs, Red-bellies, Crocs, Goannas, Huntsmans, Wasps, Bull-Ants, Quolls, Tasmanian Tigers, Koalas, Roos, Platipi, Blue-Tongues etc. :D
There is an absolute stack of possibilities with our native fauna. ;):cool:

[jena]

I like the idea of the typical aussie ute. It could go one step further and add some kind of rum related stickers on the back, some horns, massive flood lights and you have yourself a bogan roo shooter-esque aussie ute.

[GoktimusPrime]

We already had redneck chavs in Dark of the Moon with the Wreckers... don't think we need more. And I'm personally not fond of pushing the Bogan or "Crikey!" croc-hunter stereotype (-_-) (besides it's arguably already been done with Outback)

With the Autobot Chainmasters we had four different kinds of Australian themed characters (again, feel free to use them - though you'll need to modify the robot mode images/logos to make them look more 'unique/original' unless you plan on giving the comics away for free).

------------------------------------------------------

AUTOBOT CHAINMASTERS
(Tech Spec Profiles by Jhiaxus, artwork by Lynx Traveller)

Background Story:
When the Decepticons sent the clones Pounce and Wingspan to Australia in order to steal uranium for use in nuclear weapons, Optimus Prime assembled an elite team of Autobots to stop them. They were so successful that they have since been permanently stationed in Australia, defending the great Southern continent from Decepticon attacks!

SPECTRE
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/chainmaster_spectre.jpg
FUNCTION: GENERAL
"Protect the land and you protect its inhabitants."
At 1.8m, Spectre is the smallest Chainmaster. Observes human culture using a holograph field to disguise himself as human. Loves the land and is protective of its people. Guided by Aboriginal elders, has assumed Chainmaster leadership. Able to use holograph field to resemble any creature or object, or to create dazzling light show to temporarily blind opponents. Uses hypno-chain to inject foes with hallucinogenic techno-venom. Chain is prone to leaking, exposing Spectre to his own venom
Strength: 8 Intelligence: 7 Speed: 5 Endurance: 9 Rank: 6 Courage: 10 Firepower: 8 Skill: 8

BREAKER
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/breakertechs.jpg
FUNCTION: AQUATIC SPECIALIST
"Ride the ocean wave."
Used to the ocean waves, Breaker was horrified when reconfigured for Australian operation as a car. Specialist in aquatic environments, hates being confined to the roads. To compensate, has become an avid surfer. Can operate at depths of up to 100km. Built for crushing ocean pressure, armour can withstand enemy artillery fire. When not complaining about ill-chosen vehicle mode, Breaker is the most easy-going and fun loving of all Chainmasters. Shoulder-mounted chain used for close quarter combat.
Strength: 6 Intelligence: 7 Speed: 7 Endurance: 5 Rank: 4 Courage: 8 Firepower: 5 Skill: 7

MINESWEEPER
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/minesweepertechs.jpg
FUNCTION: DEMOLITIONS EXPERT
"It's always the red wire."
Former Chainmaster commander, the darker side of Minesweeper’s nature was accentuated due to accidental exposure to radioactive material: irrevocably damaging data tracks. Unable to fully trust his leadership, he was deposed and replaced by Spectre. Incredibly self-confident. Cool head and sense of practicality that makes him ideal demolitions expert, but socially deficient. Uses mini-missile launchers concealed on back in combat. Chain functions as a mine-detector in either robot or vehicle mode.
Strength: 8 Intelligence: 7 Speed: 5 Endurance: 9 Rank: 6 Courage: 10 Firepower: 8 Skill: 8

MUCK RAKER
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/muckrakertechs.jpg
FUNCTION: EXPLORER
"You don't know how far you can go until you get there."
Muck Raker isn't happy unless half-buried in a swamp, tyres churning through the mud as she pushes through uncharted territory. An explorer at heart, relishes the opportunity given to her by her station in the Australian outback. Fastest of the Chainmasters, especially off-road. Almost no territory she cannot traverse in either robot or vehicle mode. Uses Mud Blaster to gum up her opponents’ works. Uses grappling chain to get out of the tightest spots
Strength: 7 Intelligence: 6 Speed: 8 Endurance: 8 Rank: 4 Courage: 8 Firepower: 6 Skill: 7

[jena]

Dont worry about the bogan thing Gok, I was kidding. I personally find all the typically aussie bogan stereotypes to be extremely embarrassing.

[Hursticon]

Dont worry about the bogan thing Gok, I was kidding. I personally find all the typically aussie bogan stereotypes to be extremely embarrassing.

Yep, that and completely over done - Like taking things in the knee and having things over 9000.

[Prowl]

Take this for example...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/unchigar.jpg


That is classic Gok. The bio could read

Name: Scat-bot
Allegiance: Evilbot
Class: Spy
Bio: Disgusting smelling, slimy, foul. These words fit Scat-bot like a glove. As a master spy he has a reputation for turning on his allies always leaving them exclaiming "what a piece of s**t. S**t sticks & he is without doubt the most distrusted Evilbot based on reputation alone

[Paulbot]

There's already a thread about Goktimus' distasteful creation (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=3686). Which he should could have just linked to rather than reposting the pic in this thread. Why not discuss it over there.

[GoktimusPrime]

I made that post in a hurry - so I didn't have time to dig up the thread and post it. Anyway, it was just an example of a blatantly "original" creation that HasTak can't claim any ownership over -- I was never suggesting that anybody actually use that character design (and I did actually explicitly state that too).

The point I was making is that you should be able to get away with design your own unique/original transforming-robot character without impeding on Hasbro/Takara's intellectual property.

But if it really upsets people that much, I've changed it to a "friendlier" version.

[Paulbot]

I made that post in a hurry - so I didn't have time to dig up the thread and post it.
A hurry? Sorry, I don't buy that. If you have time to write 964 words, you've got time to search for a previous post/thread you created and link to it. :rolleyes:

So let's bring this back to topic, here's the link to the Chainmasters bios and pics (http://sonconvoy.tripod.com/sabretron_chainmasters.html).

[primatives]

I take it you guys never played with Tamagotchis, those things made poop look almost cute. I don't find cartoon poop offensive. Harden up guys.

Haha true :P

[jena]

So, is this thread dead or what?

[swoop]

I've got some ideas for you Jenna but it'll have to wait until tonight when I've got some time to type it up

[jena]

Awesome, I'll look forward to reading them.

[KillinSpoon]

A hurry? Sorry, I don't buy that. If you have time to write 964 words, you've got time to search for a previous post/thread you created and link to it. :rolleyes:

So let's bring this back to topic, here's the link to the Chainmasters bios and pics (http://sonconvoy.tripod.com/sabretron_chainmasters.html).

Oh god, I have missed you guys.

[canofwhoopass_87]

Heh this thread was a good read! What happened to that jazzy josh guy? All of his posts were essentially "I'm sorry but I don't want to get sued / I'm sorry but I don't want to get involved in anything illegal / I like to hide under rocks". Rinse and repeat. What a top guy

and Gok probably had a few brews before he concocted that idea too lol. Hope you don't bring that up in the classroom man!

[kup]

So, is this thread dead or what?

Not dead but there has to be serious will to do it. At this point, throwing ideas around is good and this thread is helpful in gathering those ideas and using them as reference.

Perhaps trying to pull something like the Parra fair is feasible? (regarding venue size) I guess once we can work out how much a modest event may cost, we can work out what to do within it.

How about we try to find out something like:

- How much would hiring a place like Parra Town hall cost?
- If the event is to last for a couple of days, what do we do to entertain people? It can't just be trivia and throttlebot racing.
- Have some sort of food available. Doesn't have to be grand, hotdogs would do.
- How many dealers can we actually invite in - Maybe we can offer free tables to some Parra fair dealers?
- Can we get somebody of some sort of fame in? It doesn't have to be directly associated with Transformers. We can try to be flexible and get a known local celebrity to come with the excuse that he/she likes Transformers ;) Maybe one of the people from Good game or something.

Well, basics like cost of the venue hiring would be a good starting platform. Once we know the reality of how much something like this would cost at a basic level, we can begin expanding it a bit.

[swoop]

I've wanted an Australian transformers convention since I learned about botcon way back in 2000, but I honestly believe a convention or even a booth at one of the existing pop culture expos wouldn't work. For reasons already listen like price attendance ect a convention wouldn't work. As for expos there is to much competition between franchises and while transformers may be near and dear to our hearts I know that at the conventions a lot of people just walk past the transformers merchandise without giving it a second look. I've seen booths with almost the same stock they started out with on Saturday morning still there Sunday afternoon. For me this suggest that there just isn't enough general interest for a booth or convention.

However what does work is our fan meets. Whether its the parra fair meet that the Sydney guys are always posting there photos of, the Perth meets after their parra fair equivalent that name escapes me or the Melbourne Christmas meet. These things work people come because for the most part the meets are free.

Now what I think should be done is take the concept of a fan meet and build on it. Nothing over the top huge just hire a hall like cat suggested a few pages ago and make it all about the fans. The toys, comics, cartoons and movies. Take everything about the brand we love and fill a hall with it. Make it a day by the fans for the fans don't worry about asking hasbro for help or getting their permission because I really doubt we would get either.

We could have tvs playing the cartoon, toys on display various comics from every publisher that has worked on the brand available to read. That covers the basic selling points of the brand and would entertain us the fans.

We could do the transforming competition that's run at the Melbourne Xmas meet up every year as well as do a trivia competition and have door prizes. I'm sure other people can come up with games.

As for getting other people there we would have to advertise. Tv is probably out of the question it costs to much and as for newspapers well it might be a bit pricey to it would have to be checked out. I think the way to go would be online and fliers. Obviously we would start threads on the variouse transformers message boards and all other pop culture, gaming, film boards that people belong to. Also a Facebook page would get a bit of attention and isn't that how people find out about most things now. Fliers could be handed out at the various existing conventions and at the comic shops, pop culture shops and game stores. I think this would be the cheapest and most effective way of advertising. I'm pretty sure office works will print 3000 at around $120.

At the meet I think we would need to have about two tvs playing the cartoons. G1, beast wars, animated, prime and select episodes from rid and the unicron trilogy. And two tvs with war for cybertron and fall of cybertron (if it's released by then) available to play.

As for comics a selection of the original marvel run, dreamwaves war within and g1 stories. And idw current books and spotlights. I think that would be a good selection of what has come before and what's currently on offer.

As for toy displays I think just the characters that appear in the cartoons should be displayed. I wouldn't display all of beast wars when only 30 toys appear in the cartoon. Basically Anything that can be seen in the cartoon should be on display because they are the toys most newcomers to the brand will want to see.

I'd say that we could play all four movies at random times during the day but I don't know how legal it is.

I also think that there should be toys available for people to transform and have a play with, its one thing to look but its way more fun to transform and fiddle around with them.

So when people see and play transformers they are going to want to buy them so then were going to need to have dealers at this meet up so people can. There are people we can contact to see if they are interested in setting up a table there. for example ebay seller gus guns is from altona and he might be interested in selling there. Go figure collectable is starting to stock and sell more transformers they also might be interested. I could talk to the guys at my local comic shop and see if their boss might be interested in selling some of his transformer merchandise there. Also there is us we could set up a communal table and sell our doubles and unwanted figures.

As far as location goes the city is central but expensive and we wouldn't want people to have to travel to far beyond the city so basically anything that is a short tram ride outside the city for example brunswick should be fine as far as travel goes and hopefully cost.

To help raise awareness we could do surveys at existing conventions asking questions about what people would want in a transformers convention, how far they would be willing to travel, pay and what they would want in a future convention etc. this information could be used in planning any future conventions but we would also collect email addresses and when a date and venue is set for this we can email these people to help get word around.

We would need food and drinks as well. The boxes of cans are cheap and could be sold for $1 and it would help recoup costs. As for food I'd need suggestion on it.

The cost will be the biggest problem and as much as I'd like to front all the money for this I simply can't afford to. But I think if we as a community could raise the money for it. I'd like it to be held in Melbourne so I'd be hoping that the Melbourne members who like the idea would get behind this idea financially and just important by attending. Alot of work would have to be put in to get a final cost but I think it could be done for under $2500. That would cover the cost of hiring a hall, chairs, tables, food, drinks, advertising etc

I think it would be best to keep admission free but if the cost blows out we could ask for dollar coin donations but we'll wait and see.

Its all over the place but that's my suggestion on what it should be. I'm sure I forgot to include something but it was late last night and early today so that's my excuse. But the main point I wanted to get across and I see that I didn't now that I've quickly read over it again is that this is done by us for us and if we only get one extra person to come then it doesn't matter because the day is about what we love and it would still be fun

[kup]

Swoop's idea of making it 'for the fans by the fans' as a focal point and expanding from there is great. A lot of his ideas can be implemented and adjusted according to scope.

Advertising can be easy enough such as advertising on the MX paper which almost every commuter coming from the city picks up. We could set up big screens showing people playing WFC as well as showing episodes and random fan made videos from Youtube (as long as they are 'public' friendly). It would be easy to get the computers and screens too since we can use our own which we can bring.

It is certainly workable and implementable but we do need a collective will to do it and that hasn't been our strong point.

[GoktimusPrime]

It is certainly workable and implementable but we do need a collective will to do it and that hasn't been our strong point.
^This.

I was able to run around and convention organising back when I was a single guy with no kids - but things have changed and I can't do that sort of thing anymore. So while I would gladly attend such events and possibly assist where I can, I'm personally not in a position where I can go about organising/implementing such things. But yeah, we need someone to put their hand up and say they want to do this, otherwise all the best ideas in the world are just gonna gather dust.

[Wheelie]

Did anything ever come of this?

[SkyWarp91]

Did anything ever come of this?

Unfortunately not.

Though I'm not against the idea of having one member go around to every state to visit each OTCA branch like a marathon.

*looks at griffin*

[griffin]

A travelling road show would be an idea, as Supanova does something similar to utilise foreign guests (having shows a week apart in different states).

It'd have to be something spectacular though, as I've done 3 of 6 planned cities for 2013 so far, and all I got is three people respond to my meet proposals... and that's with the incentive of bringing any of my toys to try out.

[liegeprime]

Years ago - Griffin did set up an exhibition at Wharf 8(?) or was it 6? not sure anyway it was in the city (Sydney).
I was the very first fella on the door and I wasn't a member of OTCA then. I became a member afterwards.

Iwouldnt have known of it had I not been scouring ebay and chanced to see and read the promotion griffin had attached on the literature of an item he had for bid (Resissue Astrotrain). Not much promotion of the event I believe.

It had all what Swoop said - an area for the sellers - though it was only Rokdog and Skyshadow actually hehehe - I got a lot of TFs from SS there ;P.
there was anarea where a trivia game was being hosted by dirge. A gamers area next to the sellers and another area where TF cartoons was being shown.

More importantly they had a display area - 10 tables, I believe of TF toys - griffin's - shipped from Brisbane for the exhibition. ;D Plus stuff from other local members to fill in the gaps.

That's me in white on the side standing over there hehehe
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb313/liegeprime/otc2006_04.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/user/liegeprime/media/otc2006_04.jpg.html)

That was the first and last toy convention purely for TFs here that Ive attended. Unfortunately unless someone does exert that kind of an effort and has the time, money and has no other priority, an Australian Botcon wont be happening soon. :(:(

Griffin's toycon seems a good idea but I dunno how much did he lose on this. I would imagine setting something up like that costed him quite a lot. He already has a lot of costs to burden him so I for one don't wanna add more...

[Gouki]

I don't want to get in trouble as trying to pimp things out, because I just want to shine a little attention on it, but I'm currently in the process of organising a pop-culture convention for May next year next year called Ratime (Ballarat + Anime). You can check out the website here (www.ratime.org.au), or the Facebook page here (https://www.facebook.com/ratime14), it's still planning and what not at the moment; But I want a big Transformers presence (due to them being in pretty much every single facet of pop-culture) and I'm sure the more fans we have the more selfishly I can make it bigger.:P

[Wheelie]

That is one awesome collection, I would've been there if I'd known about it..

[1AZRAEL1]

That is one awesome collection, I would've been there if I'd known about it..

Yea it was not too well advertised. I can't even remember how i found out about it, possibly searching the net for transformers and stumbled on it. Wasn't until a while later that i joined Ozformers lol. I went to this with a few friends and remember her telling her kids not to touch the toys lol

[UltraMarginal]

I went with my then girlfriend (now Wife), I was amazed at Griffins collection, and thought he was out of his mind transporting it all down to Sydney just so other people could look at it.

I wasn't a member then either, and it was only a long while after I joined that I realised that was even a related event.

I would love to see something like botcon here, but I'm not sure we have the population density to make it viable.

[liegeprime]

Isn't it funny we all were there, the usual suspects hehehehe and not one of us knew each other then but we are all now meeting each other on a quarterly basis now heheheh plus any arranged in between social activities (picnics, monopoly games, mini meets):D

I remember it was dirge who first talked to me there -well he was manning the entrance heheheh. He actually told me about OTCA:D while I was ogling the collection ( drooling in the inside). I was staying clear from Gok then, coz well you know, he was playing with a dark saber prop and swinging it like a madman heheheh:D - he also had a yellow Cybertron Ramble with him.... gee my memory works well when it comes to TFs hehehe:p Also I think Skyshadow won the trivia game :o

[Sam]

I remember it was dirge who first talked to me there -well he was manning the entrance heheheh. He actually told me about OTCA:D while I was ogling the collection ( drooling in the inside). I was staying clear from Gok then, coz well you know, he was playing with a dark saber prop and swinging it like a madman heheheh:D - he also had a yellow Cybertron Ramble with him.... gee my memory works well when it comes to TFs hehehe:p Also I think Skyshadow won the trivia game :o

It felt like a lifetime ago .... but in fact it wasn't really that many years in the past. :)

Griffin's collection was / is amazing. I also have fond memories of the previous convention in Ashfield, with fan subbed Japanese TF episodes. LOL.

[5FDP]

My first contact with anyone here was in 2003 I believe at Supanova. Goki and dirge were manning a stall there and if I recall correctly there was a diorama of the 'Death of Optimus Prime'.

I didn't actually sign up here until 2006... don't know why.

[GoktimusPrime]

Your memory serves you right! It was indeed Sydney Supanova 2003! :)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/ozformers.jpg
Holy crap... has it been 10 years already?!? :eek:

We had several toys on display. They were:
+ Toy cast of our exclusive comic "On Devil's Ground" (e.g. Road Rage, Crosscut, Venom etc.)
+ "Death of Optimus Prime" diorama
+ Beast Wars battle scene diorama
+ Brave Maximus (in robot mode standing at the front corner of our booth)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/matrixdeath.jpg
I got JafCon black G1 Optimus Prime back in 2000, which was nothing more than a black Optimus Prime (albeit a rather nice looking metallic black). But it was packaged in the exact same box as the regular reissue at the time; same tech specs etc. So I decided to repurpose this toy as "Matrix Death Convoy," and set up this diorama. Even now I still consider this toy as that (thus it's resides on my 1986 Autobot shelf, and not my 1984 Autobot shelf ;)).

Alas I don't have any photos of the Beast Wars diorama which is a shame. One thing we did was to give Rhinox two chain weapons, and we also used a bit of blu-tac to attach the buzzsaws onto the front of the guns to make them look more like the mini-guns that he uses in the cartoon. :D We also used some twist ties to make Airazor look like she was flying IIRC. We also used a rubber band to attach the Matrix onto Hot Rod's body (positioned in the middle, then we just posed his hands on either side). Optimus Prime's 'deathbed' is actually my old VHS copy of Transformers The Movie with the jacket insert removed (an ironic touch). :)

[5FDP]

Holy crap... has it been 10 years already?!? :eek:

That's exactly how I feel :(

[Sinnertwin]

I remember that now. Did somebody have a G1 Megatron there? I remember transforming him while discussing the Prime diorama

[Kitty]

Hey I was just talking to some friends about a rumour that is going around the scenes. Apparently one of the smaller conventions (certainly not the hub and after reading posts of Jena thinking the hub would jump in would we want them to after last years Melbourne one with Stan Lee line?) that they were considering doing a mecha convention to combine all the smaller mech coloured under one roof. So if this goes ahead and I can keep an eye out (and ear) and if I read or hear any new news I can post it up here for you guys.
I over heard this info while at the cock tail party for heroes and villains last year. One guy was talking to one of the head organisers about the idea and he was really interested in the idea. I remember the guy had a massive transformer tattoo on his back and they took a photo of Steve Blum next to him with the tattoo in the picture.