Referring to TF:Prime toys as RID

[Paulbot]

I wonder can we not call the wave 1+ Transformers Prime toys "RID"?

There is a toy series we know as RID. A very good one from a decade ago with a mix of something for everybody: beasts and cars and trucks and combiners and a ten-changer and a not too shabby anime cartoon.

The packaging in all the pics I've seen, of both the European and American releases, quite clearly say "Transformers Prime" on them.

It's suggested, and seems more plausible, that the 'robots in disguise' phrase is the new equivalent to Mechtech, to differentiate the deluxe/revealer, voyager/poweriser, leader/weaponiser scales from the legion/commander size in "Cyberverse" (as with the DOTM toys).

DOTM toys didn't need to be called Mechtech when they were referred to. Mostly that was just skipped over.

The only toys that need perhaps to be differentiated are the First Edition / FE ones.

Just call them TF:Prime or Prime or TFP or whatever (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12575), but please stop calling them RID toys.

[/Rant]

[Sharky]

[/Rant]

I Agree!!

#Like :)

[griffin]

RID is a subtitle for the larger figures, like Mechtech was for the Movie toys (they kept Cyberverse as the subtitle for the smaller figures, but needed to change the larger subtitle). I didn't call the Movie toys Mechtech, so I won't be calling the larger TFPrime toys as RID here (in any official, info or news posting).

I would be editing news topic titles that use RID as well, because of the current comic... as it would be confusing.
(as to what people call them in the body of their posts, is up to them - I won't be editing people's posts if it is known what they are referring to)

[Paulbot]

Within posts/topics/context it's been perfectly clear, but it's starting to become dominant on other TF websites.

[griffin]

I just looked at the Cliffjumper comparison topic at Seibertron, and can see the need to use the two acronyms within a posting to make it easier to refer to each quickly, but don't see a need for RID to be used in a topic title... especially since the FE set is essentially been and gone now. If it was an ongoing line with the Regular "RID" toys, then there might be an allowance for it, but fortunately there shouldn't be anymore news on the FE set, so don't need a prefix for the regular figures in news titles to differentiate them from the FE figures.

[jazzy_josh]

But I thought all transformer lines were associated with the old catch phrase Robots In Disguise, isn't it just that though?

[Hursticon]

It's going to be Chug-a-wug-a-doodar all over again... :rolleyes:
Are people normally so confused so easily?, do we honestly need a new tag-line every 3 waves? :confused:

[GoktimusPrime]

I wonder can we not call the wave 1+ Transformers Prime toys "RID"?

[etc]
+1 Agree much
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/like.jpg


But I thought all transformer lines were associated with the old catch phrase Robots In Disguise, isn't it just that though?
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Robots_in_Disguise_%28franchise%29
http://www.ridforever.info/
http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/carobot/

And of course last year Neil Kaplan - the voice dub actor for Robots In Disguise Optimus Prime - was a guest at SupaNova (I had him autograph my RiD Optimus Prime toy :D)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/SupaNova%202011/supanova2011_07.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/SupaNova%202011/supanova2011_29.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjZO6_ItoDw

[AJ_Prime]

Maybe there are some things I don't like to change or maybe I only like change that is for the better. Either way I think it'll be difficult to refer to the new names for the size classes that are clearly designed to appeal to children.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Maybe PRID?
Maybe there are some things I don't like to change or maybe I only like change that is for the better. Either way I think it'll be difficult to refer to the new names for the size classes that are clearly designed to appeal to children.Amen to that...I can't say 'Powerizers'/'Revealers'/'Weaponisers' without rolling my eyes. Who came up with those titles?

[VERT]

Maybe PRID?Amen to that...I can't say 'Powerizers'/'Revealers'/'Weaponisers' without rolling my eyes. Who came up with those titles?

Ditto on all counts. Im a Basic, Deluxe and Voyager man myself..... But still call them Mega most of the time. I also call the new toys Prime not RID.

[griffin]

I still think of the original size classes... from when Hasbro first created them for Beast Wars - Basic, Deluxe, Mega, Ultra.
It is so hard to avoid confusion when they keep changing the class names.

As for the tag line/subtitle - it's something we have to live with, as Hasbro has to create a new subtitle every year on a line that goes longer than a year, just for the retailers... as per the "keeping the line fresh" concept.
If they don't change the packaging, theme, gimmicks, subtitle, etc each year on a line that lasts more than a year, retailers are going to go for something else that is "new" for their shelves instead.
Not that kids & Parents are going to care, as they'll still just buy whatever is a good toy/toyline or currently popular. Unfortunately, retailers force successful toylines to be changed or replaced, just to please themselves with the thought of having "something new" on their shelves... which only they know or care about.

[griffin]

But I thought all transformer lines were associated with the old catch phrase Robots In Disguise, isn't it just that though?

Yeah, they do... as most Transformers toylines since the original series will have it mentioned somewhere on the packaging.
Which is why it was both annoying and confusing (and lazy) for Hasbro to use that catch phrase for a whole toyline in 2000-2001.

For TFPrime though, the "Robots in Disguise" bit has a different purpose. It is to differentiate between larger figures (Robots in Disguise) and the smaller figures (Cyberverse)... the same way DotM toys were labelled as Mechtech (larger figures) and Cyberverse (smaller figures) to differentiate the two sizes of the series.

[Demonac]

Hey Gok, I think you posted the wrong pictures, as they seem to have no relevance to the discussion at hand.



And of course last year Neil Kaplan - the voice dub actor for Robots In Disguise Optimus Prime - was a guest at SupaNova (I had him autograph my RiD Optimus Prime toy :D)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/SupaNova%202011/supanova2011_07.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Conventions/SupaNova%202011/supanova2011_29.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjZO6_ItoDw

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Maybe PRID?Wait, I've got a better one.

We've had TF Prime First Edition (TFPFE), now we have Prime Robots In Disguise Edition.
TF PRIDE!:D

[Quickstrike]

I can't say 'Powerizers'/'Revealers'/'Weaponisers' without rolling my eyes. Who came up with those titles?

They make more sense than Voyagers at least. What does that even mean?!

[GoktimusPrime]

Wait, I've got a better one.

We've had TF Prime First Edition (TFPFE), now we have Prime Robots In Disguise Edition.
TF PRIDE!:D

Let's hope Hasbro never releases a line called Transformers Prime Robot Invincible Cybertronian Knights :p

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Must...resist..urge..to make...dirty acronyms!:o
They make more sense than Voyagers at least. What does that even mean?!Umm...they take long holidays to far-away places?:confused: :p
I'm not keen on Voyagers as a name either (at best guess it got used 'cos it sounds sorta science-fiction-y), but at least it sounds less outright ridiculous than the current crop of Tryingtooharderizers.

Personally, I'd like to see something that's sort of descriptive of their size class, like Minicons (not perfect but it's an established term and works better than 'Snack Size') for what's currently Cyberverse, Basic for Scouts/Cyberverse Commanders, Standard for what's currently Deluxes/Revealers (Deluxe usually means big, and Revealers sounds like they're flashers), Deluxe for Voyagers/Powerizers, and either keeping Leader class for Leader/Weaponizers (since they are usually leader characters) or alternately using 'Supreme' or 'Mega' or something else that identifies them as 'the big ones'.
Not that it makes much difference to me anyway, but it'd be nice if HasTak could use size class names that actually tell you what size they are, instead of whatever random name marketing has decided 'sounds cool'.

[GoktimusPrime]

Could be worse... could be Starbucks where that short cup is called a Tall. :p

[griffin]

Never liked "Leader Class" as a class, as it suggests that it's only for Leader characters, and could be confusing to kids who see Leader XXX and assume it is a Leader.

Maybe they should incorporate a numbered sizing system like the SWTFs, for uniformity across the series & eras.

[GoktimusPrime]

Remember when Transformers didn't have price/size class names? Ya know... the good old days when HasTak just made Transformers and stuck prices on them. It's not as if Bludgeon was a "Deluxe" Pretender and Waverider as a "Voyager" Pretender... they were just both called "Pretenders," but one was bigger and dearer (and crappier) and the other was smaller and cheaper (and cooler ;)).

They should go back to something simple like that... maybe call it Transformers "Keep It Simple Stupid" Players. :p

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Could be worse... could be Starbucks where that short cup is called a Tall. :pHmm...how about.
Ristretto.
Espresso.
Short Black.
Doppio.
Doppio Ristretto.

Alternately...

Shot.
Middy.
Stubby.
Pint.
Jug.
and if they ever need a larger-than-leader size
Carton.
:D

[griffin]

I wonder if that's where the larger Beast Wars size classes got their names from - Mega Pretenders & Ultra Pretenders from Gen1... the first usage of size class names I think.

[GoktimusPrime]

I never thought of Mega and Ultra Pretenders are references to their size classes but due to the fact that Mega Pretenders had shells that could also transform and Ultra Pretenders had vehicle-shell for their transforming outer shells.

[Hursticon]

They should go back to something simple like that... maybe call it Transformers "Keep It Simple Stupid" Players. :p

I think Gene Simmons might have something to say about that... :p:D


I wonder if that's where the larger Beast Wars size classes got their names from - Mega Pretenders & Ultra Pretenders from Gen1... the first usage of size class names I think.

Actually Griffin, that doesn't sound like all too much of a stretch; Maybe not necessarily paying homage or nodding to the G1 figures but having those words used in marketing previously may of seemed like a quick and easy solution to Hasbro, as those 2 words (Mega & Ultra) have a different feel to them compared to their partner classes 'Deluxe' & 'Basic' - to me they don't sound quite as uniform if you know what I mean? ;):)

[Cat]

I think Gene Simmons might have something to say about that... :p:D



Actually Griffin, that doesn't sound like all too much of a stretch; Maybe not necessarily paying homage or nodding to the G1 figures but having those words used in marketing previously may of seemed like a quick and easy solution to Hasbro, as those 2 words (Mega & Ultra) have a different feel to them compared to their partner classes 'Deluxe' & 'Basic' - to me they don't sound quite as uniform if you know what I mean? ;):)

Teehee.

Hursty missed a 'Kiss Players' reference.

I wish I still had that bit of innocence....:p

[Hursticon]

Teehee.

Hursty missed a 'Kiss Players' reference.

I wish I still had that bit of innocence....:p

No, no - I just looked beyond it, as that place scares me... :o


:p

[GoktimusPrime]

Double the lols :D

[theheretic]

I don't know what your all complaining about! It's obvious what we will call them. They will be...

Prime RIBS...erm Prime RID's

God I'm hungry for some prime rids...ribs

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't know what your all complaining about! It's obvious what we will call them. They will be...

Prime RIBS...erm Prime RID's
I don't mind "Prime RiD" -- that's fine. But just "RiD" on its own is confusing. But this certainly isn't the first time some fans have "carelessly" thrown terms around that create confusion. I personally refuse to refer to Bumblebee as BB (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/BB) or gestalts as Combiners (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Micromaster_Combiner). (-_-)

[theheretic]

I always call gestalts combiners because I have no idea how I'd pronounce gestalts or what that even means. And gestalts are also referred to as combiners in official media so I don't see the problem there.

[Cat]

I always call gestalts combiners because I have no idea how I'd pronounce gestalts or what that even means. And gestalts are also referred to as combiners in official media so I don't see the problem there.

'Gestalt' has been used officially a few times.

IIRC the term has its origins in..........psychology, I think? Something like that? (Vague memory seeing it used in uni)

[Raptormesh]

'Gestalt' has been used officially a few times.

IIRC the term has its origins in..........psychology, I think? Something like that? (Vague memory seeing it used in uni)

Indeed, off the top of my head gestalt means that the whole is more(or different) than a sum of its parts referring to sensory inputs and thought processes of the brain.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I always call gestalts combiners because I have no idea how I'd pronounce gestalts or what that even means. And gestalts are also referred to as combiners in official media so I don't see the problem there.It's a German word if that helps. Wiktionary link here (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gestalt), click on the 'gestalten' link at the bottom of the page for a close word with an audio clip.
Using Romajii since most people don't know the IPA characters, it's Geh-SHTALT. Hard g as in Grasshopper, s pronounced sh as in Sure. Caps used for word stress syllable, or the bit of the word you emphasise, eg. baNAna.

[Cat]

Indeed, off the top of my head gestalt means that the whole is more(or different) than a sum of its parts referring to sensory inputs and thought processes of the brain.

My mother will be thrilled to hear I do remember something from uni. :cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

I always call gestalts combiners because I have no idea how I'd pronounce gestalts or what that even means. And gestalts are also referred to as combiners in official media so I don't see the problem there.
The problem is that during G1 gestalts never had an official encompassing name in English (except for the Scramble City gestalts who were called "Special Teams") - but Combiners were used in an official capacity to describe two Transformers that combined to form a single alt mode, i.e. the Micromaster Combiners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=551a_2lLGuU

Because of this, around 1994 fans started using the word "gestalt" (which as Raptormesh said, means something that is greater than the sum of its parts) to describe gestalts like Devastator, Defensor, Bruticus, Superion, Menasor, Computron, Lio Kaiser et al. thus allowing the term "Combiner" to be used to describe combiners (like say Sledge and Hammer) without confusing them with gestalts.

It wasn't until as late as 2001 that the term "Combiners" was officially used to define gestalts for Robots In Disguise - and then again during Revenge of the Fallen when we had "Combiner Class" Devastator (but at the same time we also had ice-cream truck Skids and Mudflap who are more like the old G1 definition of a Combiner!). So anyway, now the term "Combiner" has been officially used to describe both Transformers whose single alt mode is an amalgam of two Transformers AND what fans commonly refer to as "gestalts." :rolleyes:


'Gestalt' has been used officially a few times.
Yeah, "gestalt" was officially used in 2007 and 2009. However fans have been using it since 1994, so it was originally a fan-term. :) There have been several fan terms that have gained official currency, such as Bumper, Darkside, Generation 1 etc.


IIRC the term has its origins in..........psychology, I think? Something like that? (Vague memory seeing it used in uni)
Yup. :cool:

[griffin]

The term combiners is what fans referred to the "special team" concept ever since they were released in 1985. No kid our age at the time knew of the word "gestalt" and I still don't use it, as it sounds too cerebral for a kid's toyline. So we (my friends and I from way back in 1987, up to the present), would refer to any multi-member group that "combines" as "combiners".
The introduction of the four new teams in the UK Marvel story "Second Generation" would keep highlighting the word "Combine" when each team combined... making it the key concept/gimmick to refer to with multi-member combining teams.
Soundwave even describes them as "Combining Transformers" in Issue 64. Devastator was also referred to as "combined" in the US Marvel Comic.
Even the catalogues from 1986 and 1987 describe those mult-member groups as being able to "combine" or "join"... since "combiner" made more grammatical sense than "joiner" to us youngens of that time, I have never seen the term questioned or disputed on any fan-forum or ATT (the first online community) before this was brought up here.
Trying to convince the fandom that they are wrong in using the universally designated term by fans for the last 25 years is a big challenge.
Even the semi-official term "Special Teams" didn't take hold within the fandom, despite it being used a fair bit (briefly) by the UK Marvel team (Issue 54, 63, 64)... since it sounded lame, made them sound retarded, it was quickly dropped.

[GoktimusPrime]

Trying to convince the fandom that they are wrong in using the universally designated term by fans for the last 25 years is a big challenge.
I never said anyone was wrong (ambiguity =/= incorrectness).

I said that the term 'combiner' - especially when used on its own without a contextual qualifier - is a very broad encompassing (and potentially ambiguous) term. The TFwiki page on "Combiner" (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Combiner) illustrates various different kinds of Transformers that can fall under the umbrella term of 'Combiner.

As frustratingly confusing as it may be, if people refer to TF Prime RiD toys as just "RiD"... it's technically not wrong, but it can be jolly confusing.

[griffin]

That's different though, as referring to TFPrime as "RID" is like referring to DotM as "Mechtech". The only reason for using the "RID" acronym for TFPrime is within a topic that involves First Edition and non-FE figures. Once FE is enough past, there won't be a need to use that sub-title, as it will all be regular TFPrime toys. (and size-classes will be the only descriptive term required/needed from then on)

[theheretic]

BBTS sent me an email today saying my TF Prime Ribs are in.... BUT I am seriously considering canceling and getting something else becausevi am so bummed out of the TFPrime FE non event. And I think I'll dump my money on some 3rd party items.

[theheretic]

Thoughts?