Martial arts discussion thread [Archive] - Page 3 - Ozformers Transformers Club of Australia (otca.com.au)

GoktimusPrime

15th July 2012, 01:24 PM

so what are you doing now?
Undecided atm. My work schedule doesn't allow me to resume Yang Tai Chi training until October -- I hope. :rolleyes: However one of my Senseis has said that s/he's happy to have be continue coming to class even if I don't ever upgrade my membership. S/he said that it's up to the GKR organisation to chase me up for that membership upgrade fee, but s/he's not going to do it for them.

So it seems my options are:
+ Look for another martial arts school
+ Continue GKR
+ Just train privately (and save my time/money - especially if the schools I'm finding aren't teaching anything of value to me)

I was kinda thinking about trying BJJ, but last week I spoke to this guy, he's a 3rd dan in traditional Okinawan Karate, and he told me that BJJ is also geared toward competition fighting rather than combative/self defensive fighting. He told me that he once had a BJJ guy come to his Dojo and put him in a headlock. He asked the BJJ guy if he had finished the lock, and he said yes. He then dropped back into a Zenkutsudachi and slammed a downward "hammer punch" into the BJJ guy's groin. And I must say that when I used to train with MMA guys who mucked around with BJJ, I encountered similar things -- like when they pinned me from on top, I could really easily just slide my hands down their front and yank their nads off if I wanted to.

But I've personally only ever done BJJ in 'mixed' martial arts schools -- I've never done it in a full proper BJJ Dojo, so I'm wondering if training in a "pure" BJJ dojo would be any better than training in say schools that teach other martial arts or MMA that happen to mix in BJJ with their training. <shrug>

Last week I spoke to a woman who was doing fundraising to send her son to Japan for a Karate championship thing, and she was telling me how her son is now coming to the realisation that his Karate club is all about making money and not about teaching people how to fight. She said that he's been to Japan before for Karate training, and it was over there when he trained in a traditional style's dojo that he realised that his school here is a McDojo. She said that the school in Japan he trained in only had one belt - black. At first I was surprised, then I stopped and thought about it... but that does actually sound really traditional! Well, not the black belt (coloured belts are no more ancient and traditional than the modern airplane or automobile ;)), but of course the concept of not having grades. If they start from black belt, it must mean they're starting from Shodan... which makes perfect sense since "shodan" literally means "beginner's level" and is the traditional point to begin Karate training. All the other levels preceding that have only existed since the 20th Century. It was really refreshing to hear that there are still authentic Karate schools that exist out there. :) Reminds me of my old Chen Tai Chi school.

But trying to find authentic martial arts schools like that in my area atm has been... challenging. My quest continues. The lady I spoke to said that she and her son have also been looking for a better Karate school, they said that they've found one that's better than the previous one he was training at - though still not as authentic as the one he trained with in Japan.

I guess the reality is that authentic martial art schools just don't make as much money as the more 'modern' martial arts schools. Even my Chen Tai Chi teacher never made that much money out of his classes - often taught out of his backyard and usually you could count the number of students who turned up on one hand. As disappointing as I've found traditional schools to be, there's no denying that they do rake in a LOT of money. But I wonder where all that money goes to. It doesn't seem to be reinvested back into the school. Because as small-scale as the Chen Tai Chi school that I went to was, our teacher did reinvest earnings back into the classes by purchasing/maintaining training equipment for students to use such as focus pads, Thai pads, protective gear, weights, kick shields, mats etc. -- and they'd all be regularly used and worn and replaced. The teacher also purchased books -- he had a private library that students could access, and some of the books had to be imported (because it's not easy to find decent literature on martial arts in Western countries). And we never had membership fees or whatever... just an annual fee to cover insurance then basic lesson fees (which became cheaper if you attended more lessons). With GKR, I've paid the trial membership fee and lesson fees; all of which are quite considerable, but I've never seen or touched any training equipment provided from the school. When sparring we actually have to purchase/bring our own protective gear from home. I haven't even seen (let alone touched) a single focus pad or kick shield etc. They don't use weights in training (as I've mentioned before, one of the Senseis argued that it's not part of Karate :rolleyes:). I haven't bothered to purchase a uniform or belt, but I'm assuming that that's gotta be paid out of students' own pockets too, right? Are there fees for grading? It seems that in GKR they keep asking us to pay for this and that... but where's the money going to?

KalEl

20th July 2012, 05:29 PM

Undecided atm. My work schedule doesn't allow me to resume Yang Tai Chi training until October -- I hope. :rolleyes: However one of my Senseis has said that s/he's happy to have be continue coming to class even if I don't ever upgrade my membership. S/he said that it's up to the GKR organisation to chase me up for that membership upgrade fee, but s/he's not going to do it for them.

So it seems my options are:
+ Look for another martial arts school
+ Continue GKR
+ Just train privately (and save my time/money - especially if the schools I'm finding aren't teaching anything of value to me)

I was kinda thinking about trying BJJ, but last week I spoke to this guy, he's a 3rd dan in traditional Okinawan Karate, and he told me that BJJ is also geared toward competition fighting rather than combative/self defensive fighting. He told me that he once had a BJJ guy come to his Dojo and put him in a headlock. He asked the BJJ guy if he had finished the lock, and he said yes. He then dropped back into a Zenkutsudachi and slammed a downward "hammer punch" into the BJJ guy's groin. And I must say that when I used to train with MMA guys who mucked around with BJJ, I encountered similar things -- like when they pinned me from on top, I could really easily just slide my hands down their front and yank their nads off if I wanted to.

But I've personally only ever done BJJ in 'mixed' martial arts schools -- I've never done it in a full proper BJJ Dojo, so I'm wondering if training in a "pure" BJJ dojo would be any better than training in say schools that teach other martial arts or MMA that happen to mix in BJJ with their training. <shrug>

Last week I spoke to a woman who was doing fundraising to send her son to Japan for a Karate championship thing, and she was telling me how her son is now coming to the realisation that his Karate club is all about making money and not about teaching people how to fight. She said that he's been to Japan before for Karate training, and it was over there when he trained in a traditional style's dojo that he realised that his school here is a McDojo. She said that the school in Japan he trained in only had one belt - black. At first I was surprised, then I stopped and thought about it... but that does actually sound really traditional! Well, not the black belt (coloured belts are no more ancient and traditional than the modern airplane or automobile ;)), but of course the concept of not having grades. If they start from black belt, it must mean they're starting from Shodan... which makes perfect sense since "shodan" literally means "beginner's level" and is the traditional point to begin Karate training. All the other levels preceding that have only existed since the 20th Century. It was really refreshing to hear that there are still authentic Karate schools that exist out there. :) Reminds me of my old Chen Tai Chi school.

But trying to find authentic martial arts schools like that in my area atm has been... challenging. My quest continues. The lady I spoke to said that she and her son have also been looking for a better Karate school, they said that they've found one that's better than the previous one he was training at - though still not as authentic as the one he trained with in Japan.

I guess the reality is that authentic martial art schools just don't make as much money as the more 'modern' martial arts schools. Even my Chen Tai Chi teacher never made that much money out of his classes - often taught out of his backyard and usually you could count the number of students who turned up on one hand. As disappointing as I've found traditional schools to be, there's no denying that they do rake in a LOT of money. But I wonder where all that money goes to. It doesn't seem to be reinvested back into the school. Because as small-scale as the Chen Tai Chi school that I went to was, our teacher did reinvest earnings back into the classes by purchasing/maintaining training equipment for students to use such as focus pads, Thai pads, protective gear, weights, kick shields, mats etc. -- and they'd all be regularly used and worn and replaced. The teacher also purchased books -- he had a private library that students could access, and some of the books had to be imported (because it's not easy to find decent literature on martial arts in Western countries). And we never had membership fees or whatever... just an annual fee to cover insurance then basic lesson fees (which became cheaper if you attended more lessons). With GKR, I've paid the trial membership fee and lesson fees; all of which are quite considerable, but I've never seen or touched any training equipment provided from the school. When sparring we actually have to purchase/bring our own protective gear from home. I haven't even seen (let alone touched) a single focus pad or kick shield etc. They don't use weights in training (as I've mentioned before, one of the Senseis argued that it's not part of Karate :rolleyes:). I haven't bothered to purchase a uniform or belt, but I'm assuming that that's gotta be paid out of students' own pockets too, right? Are there fees for grading? It seems that in GKR they keep asking us to pay for this and that... but where's the money going to?
what have you decided to do dude?

GoktimusPrime

20th July 2012, 11:38 PM

I didn't go to any classes this week, but I did some private training yesterday. During this time I had someone hold a kick shield for me and I was practising round house kicks -- I practised both the way I was taught in GKR with the knee sticking out, and the way I was taught in Tai Chi with the knee up front. Aside from the groin-defence issue, something else that I didn't think about before came up -- power. I found that the knee up front roundhouse kick delivered greater power whereas the knee to the side delivered noticeably less power.

The immediate explanation that comes to mind is less rotation, which of course means less rotational energy. When sticking the knee out to the side, my leg is already positioned for a roundhouse kick, so the leg just swings in. My supporting leg and hips do rotate, but my kicking leg does not. Whereas with the knee up front version, the kicking leg needs to rotate 90 degrees as the kick is delivered. This extra rotation would naturally generate additional rotational energy.

I actually wasn't even looking to compare the power output of these kicks, I was practising roundhouse kicks and I just felt like practising both versions... I mean, I've been practising all these new punches and kicks in GKR class, but never had the opportunity to try them with any form of tacticle contact, so I decided to see what it would feel like to deliver a roundhouse kick as I've been taught in GKR. To my surprise it was quite weak -- and I wasn't trying to be weak with it, I delivered both roundhouse kicks with equal strength. I could feel that the knee up front version was stronger, and the person holding the shield said so too.

Bartrim

24th July 2012, 04:17 PM

Been back 3 weeks since our holiday break. Things are going well. My Sensei is going for his 2nd dan black belt so he is putting on a BBQ this weekend but before hand we are having 40 rounds of sparring. I don't know who will be cooking the BBQ. It wont be me:p

Plus next month I get to start my instructor accreditation course.:)

KalEl

24th July 2012, 04:23 PM

KalEl

25th July 2012, 10:39 PM

had an awesome night at judo!!!!!! glad to be back

GoktimusPrime

26th July 2012, 12:04 PM

Glad you're enjoying getting back into Judo. :)

I've tried some Judo before and found that it didn't suit my needs; I've sparred with two black belts, one was a Judo Sensei from America, the other a Judo black belt from Japan (trained in Japan) - neither of them could throw me even though I let them grab me (which would never happen in a real fight). But to be fair to Judo, they don't claim to teach self-defence. The dojo that I went to, their advertising didn't mention self defence at all, and the Sensei I spoke to openly admitted that it's a sport and not a fighting form (he told me that if I want to learn how to fight, look somewhere else) -- and I can respect that. :) The official site for Australian Judo (http://www.ausjudo.com.au/customdata/index.cfm?fuseaction=CustomItem&ItemID=49509) doesn't mention self-defence at all, but does talk about the other benefits of learning Judo as a fun sport. :D

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/jaam_jaam.gif

Sport-wise, I've seen disabled (blind) Judo before - that's rather interesting. It's the same rules as regular Judo, but the competitors start already in contact with each other, whereas in regular Judo they stand at a distance and then step in to make contact. Being in the stands was interesting, everyone cheers REALLY loudly when barracking for blind competitors (since it's the only way they can tell that they're being supported -- banners, flags etc. mean nothing to them) ;)

Posnik

26th July 2012, 12:30 PM

We were going through kicks in tonight's class, one of the new guys asked how to block a roundhouse kick, and Sensei showed us a block that we (white belts) have never learnt before. One of the red belts recommended that we could use Gedan-Barai, which is probably what I would've said too considering the exceeding limited repertoire that we've been taught, but Sensei disagreed. IMO neither the block she showed or the Gedan are better or worse than the other... and really, kicks are better off being blocked with legs than hands/arms (which you would use only if the kick's come in too fast for you to get your leg up in time - so arm blocks against kicks are still useful IMO as a backup). I was talking to that red belt later and asked him if he's ever been kicked by someone with a massively powerful roundhouse kick (like say, a lot of Muay Thai fighters)... cos blocking those with your arms would cane! :o (even blocking them with your legs hurts, but I'd hate to imagine how painful they'd be to block with arms!)

GKR kicks are similar to Tai Chi kicks insofar that the knee is lifted first before doing the kick, which sacrifices power, but gains greater manoeuvreability and versatility. Other fighters launch their kicks straight from the ground without lifting the knee first. While they sacrifice manoeuvreability and versatility, they gain massive power! XO Although I must say that one significant difference w/ the GKR roundhouse kick is that the knee is lifted up to the side instead of in front like with a front, side and back kick (in Tai Chi we lift to the front, same as every other kick). I can see that this is to help give the roundhouse kick more power, but damn it _completely_ opens the groin!! :eek: If you wanna generate more power, I reckon you're better off just launching the kick straight off from the ground and forget about the knee lift. Lifting it off to the side when kicking straight ahead kinda defeats the versatility advantage since you're exposing yourself anyway. :o

Sensei then asked if there were any other questions, and I asked what the defence is against someone who grabs your kicking leg. Sensei's response said that it would never happen because grabbing is against the rules in GKR. So I said, but what about in self defence? Sensei then said that our kicks just need to be faster than the opponent's grab... but I think she quickly realised that it wasn't a very good answer (because the obvious next question would've been "But what if they do grab you?!") - which was on everyone's face. So she paused and thought for a while, then asked one of the senior students to grab her leg and she tried to get out of it... but couldn't. So she told us that there you can't get out if someone grabs your kicking leg. :eek: :eek: :eek: Again... good luck fighting a grappler, guys. :rolleyes: Heck, even people who do Wrestling (like the kind they do at the Olympics) will grab your legs! I once sparred against a wrestler who dived at my ankles and grabbed both of them and quickly lifted them up over my head before jumping on me -- I had to go into breakfall and use ground-fighting techniques against him because I'd completely lost my footing.

Anyway, I politely asked Sensei if I could show them something, and I asked the senior student to grab my leg, and just showed them a very simple technique where you just shift your weight forward into the leg that's being held (i.e. so that the person holding your leg ends up bearing your entire body weight), and of course with elbows bearing forward as you do. I told Sensei that I wanted to know what GKR's counter to a leg grab was, which was the initial purpose of my question - and she understood that and said that she'll get back to me next week with an answer.

Anyway, next week's the last week of my trial period. Unless something amazing happens then that impresses me and convinces me to continue with GKR in my area, I'm likely to look elsewhere for a more effectual place to learn self defence. There's a BJJ school not far from me that I might have a look at.

Hi there, just new to the thread, but saw your comments and thought I could shed some light. Your instructor is correct in part, understanding that when we throw kicks, the expectation is that they are not caught. However, you are right, kicks can and often are caught by your opponent. What we teach is first of all, to avoid them being caught you must practise getting them back in the same manner they are delivered (ie you reverse the technique, rather than just letting them hit your target and dropping straight back to the floor, where they again become a counter-target). So your kicks must be delivered at speed. If your foot / leg IS caught in either front-kick or roundhouse kick, an option is to pull your leg close to your body. The reasoning being that if your leg is being held, then your opponent has their hands down (to hold your leg), thus sacrificing defence of their head. As you bend your knee to bring your opponent in, start jabbing to the head. You will find your opponent will quickly decide that holding your leg is NOT in their best interests as they are unable to block the head strikes. Just thought you might find this helpful in some manner. Practise this next time you are able. There are a number of other retaliations for a leg grab which involve dropping your supporting leg and taking your opponent to the ground (see any senior BJJ student and they can show you how to do this), but just be careful when deciding to go to the ground. Hope this helps

GoktimusPrime

26th July 2012, 04:25 PM

Welcome to the board Posnik and thank you for your considered response. :)

Out of the suggestions you've made, I would personally go for the leg-drop, though I'd rather not go to the ground with my opponent. In Tai Chi we remain upright with all our holds and submission techniques, similar to Aikido (http://www.brandermillaikido.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/christine_submission.jpg). :)

GoktimusPrime

28th July 2012, 10:31 AM

Hmmm... work schedule has temporarily changed; thinking about resuming Yang Tai Chi training -- at least for the next 2-3 weeks until my work schedule clashes with the classes again. :rolleyes: C'est la vie.

Bartrim

28th July 2012, 02:43 PM

We had a special 40 round sparring session today followed by a BBQ. Thankfully one of the guys wives cooked because none of us were really up for cooking after 40 rounds.

GoktimusPrime

28th July 2012, 10:54 PM

I just had the VB commercial jingle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA1h9h7-_Z4) playing in my head when I read your post, Bartrim. ;)

Bartrim

6th August 2012, 04:36 PM

What a awesome UFC event yesterday. Only one disappointment where a fight was stopped due to an unintentional eye poke but the rest of the fights were really good. Machida v Bader played out exactly like I thought with the wrestler getting impatient in the second round and lunging at the dragon who dropped him with a beautiful right hand. Vera surprised me in lasting 4 rounds with Shogun.

Now to wait and see who Machida will fight for the light heavyweight title.

GoktimusPrime

18th August 2012, 10:06 PM

So the GKR sales rep actually called me today and asked me for feedback on what I thought about my GKR training during the 3 month trial. So I gave her my honest opinion as objectively as I could, although she kinda caught me at an awkward moment as I was mid-marking exam papers, so my brain was kinda frazzled. The main focus of my feedback was on how I've found my GKR training to be ill-suited to self defence and if anything, the training has been counter intuitive to self defence fighting. Some of the comments I made she didn't address... in fact, there was a point in our conversation where she kinda went silent and after a brief pause I had to go "Hello?" to see if she was still there. To make a long conversation short, the main crux of what I was telling her was how the teaching has only been superficial and that there's no real teaching for deep knowledge. i.e. that if I were attacked, I should be able to execute everything I've learnt so far in GKR as if it were second nature -- instinctively. Now in saying this I'm not at all suggesting or expecting that I'd be able to get into a serious fight with only 3 months' training in GKR, but as I told the sales rep, in the context of what I've learnt, I should be able to execute the basic techniques I've learnt in a fight. e.g. if someone attacks me with an attack that is ideally countered with a gedan barai, then my body ought to be defending it with a gedan barai without any conscious thought.

It's like say, if someone has only just started learning Japanese and maybe all they can talk about is greetings, introducing themselves and maybe counting to 10. Assuming that the student is serious and motivated, if they are taught these things correctly then they should be able to engage in a conversation about any of these things - at their level - with a native speaker. They may not be able to talk about anything more, but they should be able to at least do that. So likewise I should be able to execute all the techniques I've learnt in Taigyoku Shodan and Taigyoku Nidan like it were second nature. But the fact is that I can't. I've been taught to perform these katas for the sake of performing them. I've rarely done any bunkai, and all the bunkai I've done has been carefully choreographed/coordinated so that I _always_ know what kind of attack is coming. Everything is predictable and nothing is ever random. She told me about the importance of not allowing beginners to spar because of safety, and I said that's fine... but you can still have beginner-appropriate drill-exercises that use random variation to reduce predictability.

I mentioned how I found the pace of learning to be really slow, and how other more senior students I'd spoken to had said the same thing. She told me 3 months isn't enough time to get fight training done and that this doesn't happen until green belt. So I told her that I had sparred with some brown belts who -- well, I wanted to tell her how easy it was for me to beat them, but she interrupted me and insisted that the brown belts would've taken it easy on me because I was a beginner. Without even letting me finish my story and describe how the fights went... because if she had I would've told her how I just walked into some of these brown belts who just had no idea how to defend themselves when someone just aggressively violates their personal space. But she didn't want to hear it, so I let it go...

I told her about how the bulk of my training has been repetition of katas and practising basics in the air -- and while I recognise the importance of this, I told her about how this alone only caters for a superficial level of knowledge. Without more frequent and better designed applications exercises I found it really difficult to obtain a deeper level of knowledge. I told her that it's like learning a language without engaging in a conversation, or learning how to drive in a parked car without ever switching the engine on... (that's not a very good analogy - like I said, my brain was frazzled :p) I also told her how I found the katas to be far too basic, and that I did some research into them (didn't mention about how they mispronounce it :rolleyes:) and that it was something developed in the 20th Century when Karate was introduced to school children. So while I can understand the validity of these simple katas for teaching children, I wasn't sure about the value of teaching the same simplified katas to adults (or even teenagers for that matter), and mentioned how I would prefer more traditional and relatively more complex katas. She then misunderstood this as me saying that I expected Karate to be more like Tai Chi (which she occasionally referred to as Muay Thai... I'm not sure if she realises that they're different martial arts...) -- and I told her that this wasn't the case. I told her that none of my criticisms are intended to be based on, "Because it's not like what I've done," but rather because I don't think it works in self defence, i.e. if I move in a certain way I'm likely to get smashed in the groin or face or throat etc.

She told me that 3 months isn't enough time to adequately gauge GKR, which contradicts what she told me when I first met her and I asked her if GKR offered single free trial lessons. She told me that one lesson isn't enough time but 3 months was. Now she's telling me that 3 months isn't enough... come on... how long does she expect "prospective customers" to trial a product before making a decision as to whether or not it's suitable for them? The vast majority of martial arts schools out there offer single free trial lessons (often with a free observation lesson too). You can pretty much get a feel for what the school is about after 1-2 lessons. Of course you won't know everything about that school, but you can usually tell what they're about and whether or not they're suited to your needs. That's the basic principle of "try before you buy," but with GKR they insist on "buy before you try" (i.e. you have to pay for trial membership before you can even step foot into a Dojo). :( I really dislike this part about GKR more than anything --- makes it feel so McDojo. The only other martial art schools I've seen that insist on buy before you try is stuff like Kenjutsu and Kendo - because they require a lot of personalised equipment. But even then they still offer free observation lessons!

So anyway, she called me looking for customer feedback and I gave it to her. :) The one thing I should have also mentioned but didn't was how so many of their lessons are based on rote learning, when countless amounts of research have shown that rote learning is a really poor way of teaching/learning compared to associative learning. And that's the real problem with the classes -- a lack of associative learning (through things like better designed application exercises). I wonder if they ever analyse any critical feedback they receive or if they just ignore them and focus on the positive ones. And the rep told me that most of the feedback they get is positive "because most of our students don't have a prior martial arts background." Hang on... analyse what you just said. Yes, of course they're going to think that GKR is great when they have nothing to compare it to. It's like people who say that Bruce Lee is a "great" fighter... often because they've never compared him with another decent Kung Fu fighter (some of them cite his performance in films as evidence... cos ya know... movies are real :rolleyes:) She did tell me that she was quite impressed that I had stuck to the trial period in its entirety -- training once/twice every week for 3 months. And to be fair, I was impressed that she actually did a follow up call. Whether or not she takes any of my comments aboard or just dismisses them I don't/won't know.

Bartrim

4th September 2012, 09:08 AM

Well I had an interesting week at Karate last week.

On Monday arvo I decided to bite the bullet and take Marcus to his first kids class. I've been unsure about starting him as he is socially under developed and he is rather small. Eventually I thought hey the first 2 lessons are free so if he doesn't like or whatever no harm done. So he comes along and he loved it!!!:D I was so proud. Then I got annoyed because I was so happy watching him do it and enjoy it but one of the other mothers there was doing a "body shop" presentation to all the mothers. Then I looked around and about 3 of the parents were sitting in their cars listening to music, reading the paper and I noticed I was the only one who was watching and supporting their child:mad:. Even if it wasn't martial arts I support and encourage my kids. These other parents couldn't give a hoot about what their kids are doing.

Then onto my class on Monday Night. I was asked to warm the class up for the first 20 minutes. Now that I REALLY ENJOYED. Some of the teenagers in the class are real smartarses and decided to disrespect me. That didn't last too long after a made an example out of a couple of them. I was kind enough to explain to them afterwards that I only punished them because I was pretty nervous about instructing so I didn't appreciate being heckled.

Then on Thursday Night I have a seperate class with me and one other girl that is for senior students who are on their way to black belt that focuses on weapons, pressure points etc. Sensei got myself and Bec to stand facing each other (yeah okay), close our eyes (ummm ok), put our hands up not quite touching each other (why am I feeling concerned about this?), put your tongue on the roof of your mouth (hang on I've heard this before...), Now use your chi energy to push each others hands ( OH HELL NO!!!!!) I jumped back in total refusual. We ended up not doing anything practical in that class as Sensei and I spent the next 45 minutes arguing about whether all that stuff is real. He was saying that he didn't believe it until he had seen it done and he tried to push me over, he couldn't because he said I was subconciously refusing. My argument was if thats all you have to do to prevent being knocked over by someones chi energy then it's a pretty useless skill to learn. He was talking about the auras and energy of people and seeing high ranking members push people over using chi. I called it a parlour trick using smoke and mirror techniques like a basic suggestive hypnosis to weak minded people and said that this threw up a major red flag in my book that this was a McDojo. Thankfully Bec was there to stand in between us because it got quite heated. He didn't admit it but I think our karate class that is straight after that class suffered because we got put through one hell of a warm up. It was absolutely brutal. When we had our first water break everyone was complaining. Normally one or two slackers complain after warm up not the whole class.

Thankfully he was kind enough to talk to me after class and we came to a deal. He wouldn't try to teach me anything about chi as I didn't want to waste my money but only if I agreed to sit down and have an in depth discussion about with pur founder next time he visits. Hopefully Kyoshi Blundells visits are so few and far between that all this is forgotten by the time he comes down our way next.

tron07

7th September 2012, 04:40 PM

I'm returning to Judo soon :)

I am 1st dan judo, though stop for a long while already.... :o

KalEl

7th September 2012, 05:11 PM

I am 1st dan judo, though stop for a long while already.... :o

awesome!

GoktimusPrime

8th September 2012, 12:14 AM

He was saying that he didn't believe it until he had seen it done and he tried to push me over, he couldn't because he said I was subconciously refusing. My argument was if thats all you have to do to prevent being knocked over by someones chi energy then it's a pretty useless skill to learn. He was talking about the auras and energy of people and seeing high ranking members push people over using chi. I called it a parlour trick using smoke and mirror techniques like a basic suggestive hypnosis to weak minded people and said that this threw up a major red flag in my book that this was a McDojo. Thankfully Bec was there to stand in between us because it got quite heated. He didn't admit it but I think our karate class that is straight after that class suffered because we got put through one hell of a warm up. It was absolutely brutal. When we had our first water break everyone was complaining. Normally one or two slackers complain after warm up not the whole class.
"And so the warriors of Kingdom A defeated the invading hordes of Army B, without having to touch anyone." - said nobody to no-one. :p

Bartrim

13th September 2012, 04:55 PM

"And so the warriors of Kingdom A defeated the invading hordes of Army B, without having to touch anyone." - said nobody to no-one. :p

Maybe if Army B believed in it then Kingdom A could of used it.

Everytime it comes up in discussion I bring up the same argument "Whats the point of this awesome mystical power if all you have to do to defend yourself is not believe in it?" Can you imagine how crap Star Wars would of been if when Darth Vader is waiting for Han and Leia at Bespin he goes to use the force to take Han's gun and Han says "Nah I don't believe in the force" and nothing happens:rolleyes:

GoktimusPrime

14th September 2012, 02:08 PM

Everytime it comes up in discussion I bring up the same argument "Whats the point of this awesome mystical power if all you have to do to defend yourself is not believe in it?" Can you imagine how crap Star Wars would of been if when Darth Vader is waiting for Han and Leia at Bespin he goes to use the force to take Han's gun and Han says "Nah I don't believe in the force" and nothing happens:rolleyes:

Hahaha, yeah. :D

They could even get beaten up by a crippled atheist like Dr. Stephen Hawking (he did once punch Homer Simpson in the face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoAkG8WBRhY) ;))

GoktimusPrime

9th October 2012, 11:19 PM

Goki> At what level are students taught break falls?
Sempai> GKR doesn't teach break falls on account that we are not meant to do take downs lol

<throws.hands.up.in.the.air>

I haven't resumed GKR training, but I still keep in touch with some of the friends I made there :) I'm actually planning on resuming my Yang Tai Chi training tomorrow (now that the current Year 12 cohort have finished and I currently no longer have after school extension classes that clash! Although I gotta start the current Year 11's extension class soon... hopefully that won't clash again)

GoktimusPrime

10th October 2012, 04:34 PM

Gguuuuuhhh... so I scheduled the new year 11 after school classes... and sure enough, one of them is on Wednesdays, so it's going to clash with any future Yang Tai Chi classes this term! :( Not sure if I can bothered to go to training tonight to attend ONE class (and I haven't been all year) just to give it up again next week! :(

Bartrim

24th October 2012, 06:20 PM

I'm being pushed hard this term as I am grading for my brown and white belt. I had to spar last night with a mask on to restrict my breathing. It sucked!

GoktimusPrime

25th October 2012, 07:22 AM

Pppffftt!! I don't need no mask to restrict my breathing! My fatness and lack of fitness does that for me! :p ;)

KalEl

25th October 2012, 07:59 AM

Pppffftt!! I don't need no mask to restrict my breathing! My fatness and lack of fitness does that for me! :p ;)

LMAO

Bartrim

25th October 2012, 06:31 PM

Pppffftt!! I don't need no mask to restrict my breathing! My fatness and lack of fitness does that for me! :p ;)

LMAO. Classic!

KalEl

27th October 2012, 09:12 PM

So it looks like its time for me to continue my karate journey, time to awaken the beast!

Bartrim

4th December 2012, 09:07 AM

GoktimusPrime

4th December 2012, 10:37 AM

I'm going for my brown and white belt grading this weekend in Lithgow. I wish it was a month ago, I was at my peak then and I handled everything thrown at me no problem. Since then I have been sick, work has picked up thus restricting my training and I believe I have been pushing my body too hard as I feel weak, tired, my technique is suffering, I've been losing concentration at class and I don't feel mentally "in the game". I'm even at the point of I'm not bothered if I don't get the belt where I should be pushing myself to get it.:(
There are benefits to training when you feel like crap, because if you can fight when you're feeling crappy, then imagine how much better you can fight when you're feeling good. :) And it's good training from a self defence POV too, because you can't choose the time of when you might get attacked by someone (hopefully not - knock on wood). So I think it's beneficial to prepare yourself in a way to fight back when you're just feeling lousy.

As for the belt/grading thing... meh. It's not even a traditional part of Karate anyway - what's more important is just focusing on your skills and techniques. As for losing concentration in class - is that just because you're feeling run down, or can the lesson structures be improved to make them more engaging? <shrug>

But hey, it's good that you're still training. I've done nothing since I stopped GKR, and I'm finding that I'm losing motivation and hope in finding a suitable martial arts school in my area. :( I seem to be stuck in an area that's just surrounded by schools that are either:
* Primarily interested in sports/competitive fighting over combative fighting
* Purely interested in holistic exercise with zero interest in any kind of fighting
* Claim to be interested in combative fighting, but fail to live up to that claim

I'm just getting really sick and tired of trying various schools and being disappointed. Traditional martial arts schools have always been hard to find, and now I can't seem to find any in my area. :( I guess traditional MAs just don't make anywhere near the amount of money that modern MAs do, especially with the explosion in popularity of MMA and UFC, it seems that traditional MAs are dying a slow death. The only traditional schools in Sydney that I can think of off the top of my head are in Chinatown or around the CBD, maybe some around the Northern Suburbs... all too far for me to attend on a regular basis. :( So unless I win Lotto and can afford to move into these more affluent areas, I feel like I'm stuck in a rut... I can keep searching, or just give up and do other forms of exercise like cycling (I've recently started doing "baby weight training" which I'll post about in the parenting thread ;)) etc. But it means giving up martial arts. :( There's a big BJJ school in my area which I haven't checked out yet... I need to work up the motivation to go and have a look -- hopefully they'll offer a free trial lesson. I just feel really burned out though after my experience with GKR... it's just killed a lot of my enthusiasm for MAs. (T-T)

5FDP

4th December 2012, 11:04 AM

GoktimusPrime

4th December 2012, 01:24 PM

Thanks for the laffs, I've seen the first one before, but the second one was new to me! LOL!! :D

Bidoofdude

4th December 2012, 05:22 PM

I always wanted to be a ninja...

GoktimusPrime

4th December 2012, 11:36 PM

I always wanted to be a ninja...
Ninja were essentially hired assassins and guerrilla fighters, and as such a core art of ninjutsu is stealth. The word Ninjutsu (忍術) itself translates as "the art of stealth." A lot of their fighting forms and weaponry look similar to what the Samurai used... I don't know how many of those forms are actually exclusive or unique to Ninjutsu. I've never come across a school that teaches Samurai/Ninja Taijutsu, but Jujutsu and Aikido are descendant from Taijutsu (that's why the Aikido uniform wears the Hakama at higher levels, and they practice fighting in Seiza sitting position -- Aikido also favours broad sweeping movements, similar to the way you'd swing a sword). Kenjutsu, Bojutsu, Sojutsu, Naginatajutsu etc. are all taught as separate styles.

I think one massive problem you're going to come across if you want to learn Ninjutsu is trying to verify authenticity. Trying to find an authentic school in any martial art can be a challenge, but Ninjutsu might be even more challenging because the art was heavily shrouded in secrecy. There's a historian by the name of Stephen Turnbull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Turnbull_(historian)) who's done a lot of excellent research into feudal Japanese military history (he lived in and travelled extensively around Japan for several years while doing his research). You might like to check out his book "Ninja: The True Story of Japan's Secret Warrior Cult" (http://www.amazon.com/Ninja-Story-Japans-Secret-Warrior/dp/1853141178/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354624467&sr=8-1&keywords=ninja%3A+the+true+story+of+Japan%27s+secr et+warrior+cult).

Mythirax

5th December 2012, 01:12 AM

You'll be OK. Just use these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5SaNBjLhg) people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWE01Yq73gs) for inspiration and you'll pass with flying colours... brown and white that is :p

The very end of that second video gave me a good giggle. That young squeal haha.

5FDP

5th December 2012, 09:21 AM

I always wanted to be a ninja...

If you are interested, check out Kevin Hawthorne Ninja Schools (http://www.khninja.com/) in Melbourne. I trained with them in the late 80's / early 90's so they have been around for quite some time. Unfortunately they don't have any schools in Sydney so I had to make the switch to Hapkido which is great in it's own rite.

GoktimusPrime

5th December 2012, 08:47 PM

If anyone is planning on coming to the Sydney Matsuri on December 15 in Darling Harbour, there's going to be a martial arts demonstration of Takemusu Aiki Aikido (http://www.aikidoaus.com.au/). Glad to see the Matsuri returning to Tumbalong Park instead of under that bridge near Starbucks (never liked that location). The best Karate demonstration I've ever seen was at a previous Sydney Matsuri -- visiting Karateka direct from Japan demonstrating some excellent techniques. It was all about "one hit one kill," where they would show how they'd instantly floor an attacker in a single move. Fight finished within a second. Loved it! :D

Bidoofdude

5th December 2012, 09:23 PM

Ninja were essentially hired assassins and guerrilla fighters, and as such a core art of ninjutsu is stealth. The word Ninjutsu (忍術) itself translates as "the art of stealth." A lot of their fighting forms and weaponry look similar to what the Samurai used... I don't know how many of those forms are actually exclusive or unique to Ninjutsu. I've never come across a school that teaches Samurai/Ninja Taijutsu, but Jujutsu and Aikido are descendant from Taijutsu (that's why the Aikido uniform wears the Hakama at higher levels, and they practice fighting in Seiza sitting position -- Aikido also favours broad sweeping movements, similar to the way you'd swing a sword). Kenjutsu, Bojutsu, Sojutsu, Naginatajutsu etc. are all taught as separate styles.

I think one massive problem you're going to come across if you want to learn Ninjutsu is trying to verify authenticity. Trying to find an authentic school in any martial art can be a challenge, but Ninjutsu might be even more challenging because the art was heavily shrouded in secrecy. There's a historian by the name of Stephen Turnbull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Turnbull_(historian)) who's done a lot of excellent research into feudal Japanese military history (he lived in and travelled extensively around Japan for several years while doing his research). You might like to check out his book "Ninja: The True Story of Japan's Secret Warrior Cult" (http://www.amazon.com/Ninja-Story-Japans-Secret-Warrior/dp/1853141178/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354624467&sr=8-1&keywords=ninja%3A+the+true+story+of+Japan%27s+secr et+warrior+cult).
Yeah, I forgot to say: "move like a ninja". I like the element of stealth.

Bartrim

5th December 2012, 11:29 PM

I'm so sick of this grading and I haven't done it yet. :mad: there are 8 people going from Ulladulla. 2 cars, one of which is mine. Sensei has organised the car pool so all the other licenced drivers are with him and I have 2 teenagers in my car. One of whom I can't stand. This is for a 10hour round trip plus a grading and he is refusing to budge on swapping people. This sort of thing really irks me. Makes me want to give all this away.

5FDP

6th December 2012, 08:57 AM

GoktimusPrime

6th December 2012, 12:52 PM

Belts and gradings = massive WOFTAM.

A couple of months ago I read an online article (about misconceptions/myths in general, not just in martial arts), and the author said something like "(belt/gradings) in martial arts is about as ancient/traditional as automobiles and airplanes." I can't honestly see the benefits of having grades and belts other than as a commercial/business exercise (or as some would say, a marketing gimmick). You know how well you can fight, and it's not as if you need a piece of paper and a coloured cloth belt to tell you how well you can fight. I'm sure we've _all_ met black belts who kick butt and other black belts who fight worse than blue belts. Maybe one day you can open up your own Dojo and just do away with all this grading/belt stuff and get closer to the traditional roots of Karate and just focus on learning for the sake of acquiring/refining skills and knowledge (deep/useful learning) rather than for passing tests (shallow/superficial learning).

This is the great thing I find about learning in martial arts schools that don't bother with grades/belts ... they just get down to the core business of learning the martial art, and not learning for the sake of passing tests. Cos the tests honestly end up being a distraction.

Bartrim

6th December 2012, 05:55 PM

This will probably be one of the last times I grade as I have to achieve this belt in our system before I can become an accreditated instructor and I'm only instructing for the extra money. Seriously even though I am on the verge of becoming a brown belt I feel like a blue belt sometimes. So I totally agree with you Gok.

GoktimusPrime

17th December 2012, 12:28 AM

I saw two martial arts demonstrations at a Japanese cultural festival this weekend. They were predictably disappointing for all the usual reasons. *sigh*

Issues with the first demonstration:
* typical over compliance from attackers - they would launch a single attack and then stop moving, obviously making it ridiculously easy for the defender to do their moves. The also made it super easy for themselves to be flipped over, like often as soon as they lost balance they'd roll into a fall (rather than trying to regain balance and stand their ground).
* their reverse breakfall technique left them extremely open to the opponent to start kicking/stomping exposed parts of the body (e.g. face, teeth, throat, body etc.) while they're on the ground
* the pacing was unrealistic - they'd move in kinda fast, but as soon as contact was made, everything became super slow. I can kinda understand that maybe they want to demonstrate the technique slowly at first so people can see/appreciate it better, but you'd surely only do that the first time... because they demonstrated the same techniques several times over - first was the Sensei with a partner, then all the students got up and started practising it. Surely with the latter part you can just do the whole thing at hardcore blitzing speed.
* general lack of any real aggression in the attacks - makes it harder for Joe Average to see how these techniques could work in an actual street fight.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/matsuri_syd_2012_12_15_066.jpg<Haw! Throwing about attackers who don't really fight back is easy!http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/matsuri_syd_2012_12_15_067.jpg
...on the plus side their katas were interesting (even if some of their stances were a bit sloppy - but I've seen way worse)

Issues with the second demonstration:
* Some of the students had belts with so many colours on them... it was like Technicolour Rainbow Belts! :eek:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/matsuri_syd_2012_12_15_069.jpg"Someday we'll find it, that Rainbow Connection."
* When the black belts came to demonstrate katas, the commentator explained how these were more complex kata. But they really didn't look all that complex to me... simply had more moves and a few extra techniques, but it still moved at the same pace as the white belt kata - and still in that 1-2-3-pause, 1-2-3-pause timing instead of just continually flowing from beginning to end (as you would move in an actual fight).
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/matsuri_syd_2012_12_15_068.jpg
* They showed sparring... where everyone looked like they were throwing random punches and kicks toward (but not actually at) each other. It went on for ages and nobody seemed the least bit interested in actually ENDING the fight in as few moves as possible (whatever happened to Bushido's motto of "one hit one kill"?) -- after the festival I spoke to a guy who agreed that these demonstrations were better when they used to fly in Karateka from Japan... because back then their version was literally just one strike, end of fight. One of the most memorable was watching a guy just deliver a really jolly good Maegeri (front kick) that floored his opponent. Fight over in a single move. He aimed straight for his opponent's core, whereas these people were mostly punching and kicking at each other's limbs... at best the hip, but nobody was going for the head or Dantian. *sigh*
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/matsuri_syd_2012_12_15_070.jpg<I wouldn't even bother trying to defend myself against half of these attacks
* Board breaking... another non-traditional martial arts "gimmick" that seemed to impress the ignorant(1). The demonstrator had his assistants hold the boards at very precise positions - he would go around and correct them, checked the ranges as he walked around... and the people holding the boards didn't move as he walked around kicked them, and of course, the boards broke perfectly in half.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/matsuri_syd_2012_12_15_071.jpg<I'd like to see him try that on solid oak

---------------------------------
(1) Because it's actually based on principles of physics (Newton's 2nd Law - impulse & momentum).
http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/physics-of-karate-no-woo-required/
^Hey Bartrim, check out the second video in that link -- it shows a Japanese Chi Master who genuinely believes he can attack people with his Chi energy (and so do all his students who pay him loads of money) versus a skeptic in a full contact fight. :D :cool:

Bartrim

17th December 2012, 07:49 AM

(1) Because it's actually based on principles of physics (Newton's 2nd Law - impulse & momentum).
http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/physics-of-karate-no-woo-required/
^Hey Bartrim, check out the second video in that link -- it shows a Japanese Chi Master who genuinely believes he can attack people with his Chi energy (and so do all his students who pay him loads of money) versus a skeptic in a full contact fight. :D :cool:

LOL. I've seen that video before. I laugh every time.

I found the last video more interesting... and funny. Although kinda sad. I can't believe people are that disaillusioned that they are willing to harm themselves to prove a point.

My sensei and I have agreed to disagree on chi. I'll be happy to go to class and learn about karate, pressure points, self defence and I even enjoy the MMA competitive Martial Arts but (a direct quote) "You throw one $%#@&*^& chi ball at me and I walk"

On a more positive note. I passed my last grading. Although I did get in trouble for agreeing with you about the pointlessness of grading as there were some very skilled guys there who were freaking out because they would have to perform 4 or 5 katas in front of a panel of judges. Myself and another Sempai from our academy were calming down about 6 guys (even though the pair of us were freaking out as well because we were in the same boat) and I quite loudly voiced how stupid I thought this was as obviously these guys have the skills but could fail because they freeze when having to do these "stupid" movements (yes I was stupid enough to use the word stupid:o) So I ended up on the end of a very stern lecture... I think. I actually let my mind wander while I was being dressed down:p Either way they punished me in the grading as I had to spar at the end and I was basically the guys I was matched up with were head and shoulders above me in skill so needless to say I got my rear end handed to me for 10 minutes. But I now have a brown and white belt which they refer to as 1st level brown and have the title Sempai. So yay for me:)

Bartrim

17th December 2012, 08:04 AM

Here is another video of "The Yellow Bamboo" Chi masters at their best:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ykNZ7rAcw

GoktimusPrime

17th December 2012, 10:17 AM

My sensei and I have agreed to disagree on chi. I'll be happy to go to class and learn about karate, pressure points, self defence and I even enjoy the MMA competitive Martial Arts but (a direct quote) "You throw one $%#@&*^& chi ball at me and I walk"
Yeah, there are elements of Chi that I agree with -- i.e. the stuff that can be proven to be real, but I don't subscribe to the mystical side, especially the idea of "touchless fighting." :rolleyes: To me, I see two main sides of 'real Chi':
* External: so stuff like pressure points and using principles of biomechanics like leverage, torsion, force, pliometrics etc. -- often when people are demonstrating how they can absorb and control "energy" during a fight, they're really talking about biomechanical manipulation.
* Internal: deep meditation and breathing control emotions by regulating heart rate and biochemical responses (e.g. release of adrenaline), ensuring that the body has adequate gas exchange (which in turn regulates metabolic cellular energy production) etc.
That's my personal understanding practical Chi anyway.

On a more positive note. I passed my last grading. Although I did get in trouble for agreeing with you about the pointlessness of grading as there were some very skilled guys there who were freaking out because they would have to perform 4 or 5 katas in front of a panel of judges. Myself and another Sempai from our academy were calming down about 6 guys (even though the pair of us were freaking out as well because we were in the same boat) and I quite loudly voiced how stupid I thought this was as obviously these guys have the skills but could fail because they freeze when having to do these "stupid" movements (yes I was stupid enough to use the word stupid:o) So I ended up on the end of a very stern lecture... I think. I actually let my mind wander while I was being dressed down:p Either way they punished me in the grading as I had to spar at the end and I was basically the guys I was matched up with were head and shoulders above me in skill so needless to say I got my rear end handed to me for 10 minutes. But I now have a brown and white belt which they refer to as 1st level brown and have the title Sempai. So yay for me:)

Congrats on passing your grading! :D Disappointing to hear how they treated a grown adult like a child simply for expressing your opinion which you thought was valid. Even if they thought that the timing of the outburst was inappropriate, surely they would just say something like, "We'll discuss this later," and actually discuss it with you, instead of "How dare you disagree! Punishment!!" - sending a message to others to not even dare to think about questioning anything. I've seen that kind of attitude in some martial arts schools, which is something I don't like about the culture of some schools... to me it makes the school feel more like a cult where obedience is more important than rational thought. It's something that's been carried over from Confucianism (it's even worse in Japan if you think it's bad here). I think there are pros and cons to it though. Obviously the bad side is that they don't allow for individuals to express themselves and just talk down to people in a way that feels insulting. This aspect of Confucian culture can work really well if you have a really good teacher who knows what they're doing, and they don't do anything that makes you raise an eyebrow; so it's completely reliant on trust - in encourages that old school method of teaching where Sensei is a font of all-knowledge and you sit quietly and absorb his wisdom. But the downside is that nobody asks questions, and asking questions is an important part of learning. I think a good school needs to achieve a balance where students have enough discipline/respect to know when to be quiet and listen/observe attentively, and when is the appropriate time to ask questions -- and likewise teachers need to know how to accept and respond to appropriate questions.

That's something I liked about my former Chen Tai Chi school. Our teacher insisted on being addressed by his first name -- if anyone even tried to call him "Shifu," he would ask them to stop it and just call him by his name. No bowing, no uniforms... just rock up and train, and often people would rock up early or stay back after class (for over an hour at times) to have really interesting discussions where questions or whatever could be addressed in finer detail. Although often during class we'd have discussions too like during training, e.g. talking while practising forms or doing drills (multi tasking!).

KalEl

17th December 2012, 09:12 PM

who has footage on themselves training/fighting?

GoktimusPrime

17th December 2012, 10:25 PM

No videos, but here's a photo of me sparring with a Kickboxer/MMA fighter...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/ballseekinghand.jpg
I'm on the left; This shot was taken at the exact moment when I dodged his left hook and threw a wrist-strike into his groin. That ended the fight _real_ quick. You can see the way he steps in with just _no_ regard to defending/protecting his groin too. Might as well paint a massive target on the crotch. :rolleyes:

Btw Bartrim, I clicked on that last video (Secrets of Scams). Pretty cool/informative stuff. :) That middle video looks interesting too -- haven't checked that out yet.

KalEl

17th December 2012, 10:58 PM

GoktimusPrime

18th December 2012, 01:01 AM

Why did you strike him in the crotch if you we're sparring
To give you a bit of context -- this wasn't in a formal martial arts school, this was just myself and some other people with martial arts experience getting together at a park for "cross style training". So different people with different MA backgrounds coming together to train together, including sparring with each other. As someone with a background in traditional martial arts, I've always been trained to fight "combatively", not competitively.

I'd trained with these people for quite some time before this sparring session, so he knew about my martial arts background. Also, before sparring and I strongly advised him to wear a groin guard, but he refused and just asked me not to attack his groin. If this had been done in a school the instructor would (should) have made everyone sparring wear a groin guard, or disallow sparring. But this wasn't in a school, so all I could do was strongly ask/insist on my partner to wear a guard, but nobody could make him do it. In the school I used to train in, if we sparred we HAD to wear adequate protection - shin guards, groin guard, body protector and head/face guard.

As I'm sure you'd know and can appreciate when we fight/spar, everything we do is on automatic -- there's very little conscious thought. Your training kicks in and you fight accordingly. There's no use in telling me, "Don't target the groin," because my conscious mind may acknowledge that, but my sub-conscious won't. In all honesty, I didn't even KNOW that I'd hit him in the groin until _after_ the fight was over and the other people spectating told me that I'd done it and showed me the picture evidence. As you know, that's how martial arts training works... it "programs" techniques into your sub conscious so that they can be executed without conscious thought if you are under attack. And my sub conscious wasn't thinking, "Go for the groin," it just goes for the easiest available target, which happened to be the groin.

Bartrim

18th December 2012, 09:02 AM

who has footage on themselves training/fighting?

There are various photos of me getting my butt kicked at my school on our facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/Kumiai.Ryu.Shoalhaven?fref=ts

GoktimusPrime

18th December 2012, 10:13 PM

Aww man, I just watched that second video where the dude hacked his own arm!! XO Seeing the shock and disillusion on his face was classic (though it's a shame that he had to nearly amputate himself to realise it). But listening to his comments, I don't think it's going to make him change his mind, because he says something like how he was wondering why it was "taking too long to get into the spirit." <---it's just one of those statements that you can't argue with. It's _so_ typical of the attitude of "no touch" fighters that I've personally encountered!

Here is another video of "The Yellow Bamboo" Chi masters at their best:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ykNZ7rAcw
^Brilliant! :D I love seeing videos of so-called Chi fighters taking on proper contact fighters!

------------------------------

Found a fairly decent video demonstrating some basic fight applications for Yang Tai Chi Raise Hand and Single Whip here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG1dA7fcGIo). :)

Bartrim

14th January 2013, 09:37 AM

Back at training tonight after our schools month long summer break. Lets see how I go.

GoktimusPrime

14th January 2013, 11:28 AM

At least it's only been a month for you. I haven't done any formal training since I quit GKR back in July... although I have been doing some informal practice, but even then it's been a month since I've done any of that. Prepare for the soreness! :)

Bartrim

14th January 2013, 12:33 PM

I've been doing plenty of cardio exercise over the break so hopefully I shouldn't end up too sore tomorrow.

Bartrim

17th January 2013, 09:28 PM

So since I'm classified as a senior karate student now I have restrictions in when I can grade. So to make up for it I've started MMA. It just happens to occur after karate on a Thursday night. So I just returned home from 1.5 hour karate lesson directly followed by a 1 hour MMA class. I feel wrecked but in a good way.

GoktimusPrime

25th January 2013, 04:11 PM

Bartrim

26th January 2013, 11:37 AM

Here's an interesting article I stumbled across...
Why MMA is Not Street Self Defence (http://www.clearsilat.com/self-defense/why-mma-is-not-street-self-defense-198.html) - talks about the usual things that most of us here are aware of in terms of why competition-style training is counter-intuitive to actual self defence.

It's scary how many people think they are invincible because they "study" MMA. I really enjoy MMA and combat martial arts but I have the belief that one should study a proper martial art before moving onto MMA. Studying karate before I started MMA has given me such a boost. In a session last week the guy was grappling with took my back in a standing position and was trying to suplex me. Because of this guys inexperience he had his arms way to high around me so I used a (albeit advanced) self defence move for when someone has you in a "bearhug" where I grab one of his wrists, drop to my knees and roll him over my shoulder. The look of disbelief on this guys face was incredible. As soon as the round was over he asked me in amazement "How did you do that?" I just replied that it was part of the self defence we learn in karate and not that special a move but he wanted to know all about it and harrassed me all class to show him how to do it.

Of course being a karate student I could of used my chi blast on him but that wouldn't of been fair:p

GoktimusPrime

26th January 2013, 11:45 AM

As soon as the round was over he asked me in amazement "How did you do that?" I just replied that it was part of the self defence we learn in karate
Yeah, I often find that what comp fighters consider 'extraordinary', traditionalists consider 'ordinary.' :o

Of course being a karate student I could of used my chi blast on him but that wouldn't of been fair:p
Kamehame-ha ha ha! :D

Bartrim

26th January 2013, 12:09 PM

On the whole sport side of martial arts the UFC had a PPV special on that I bought. "Ultimate 100 Knockouts" 3 hours of guys getting KTFO. So much enjoyment:D

Bartrim

1st February 2013, 08:35 AM

Hard core MMA session last night. We had 3 pukeys... and I WASN'T one of them:D

GoktimusPrime

1st February 2013, 03:42 PM

Spewin'. :p

Gah... after school class is scheduled to clash with my Tai Chi lessons again... so another 3 terms of no training. :( :( :( *sigh*

5FDP

1st February 2013, 04:05 PM

Could be worse - you could have a heel spur like me and be unable to train at all :(

KalEl

1st February 2013, 04:26 PM

Spewin'. :p

Gah... after school class is scheduled to clash with my Tai Chi lessons again... so another 3 terms of no training. :( :( :( *sigh*

I'm sure you could find an alternative

GoktimusPrime

2nd February 2013, 12:06 PM

I'm sure you could find an alternative
Guhh... after my recent experiences I've really become uninspired to keep looking. I cannot find a single decent martial arts school in my area. The Tai Chi school I go to isn't great, just the "least crappiest" - i.e. they don't do any actual self defence training or teach any apps, but at least their form-work is decent, and they don't waste my time doing counter-intuitive competition fight training cos they don't do any fight training! :rolleyes: (so it's a blessing and a curse at the same time!)

My experience last year has put a foul taste in my mouth and seriously put me off from looking. It's made me even more wary than before now (cos the school turned out to be completely like what the sales rep assured me that they would NOT be (i.e. textbook McDojos) :( There's a BJJ school near me that I'm considering... currently still penny pinching for Encore Fort Max, so maybe I've already saved up my money for that ... hopefully I'll be more enthusiastic by then. :o

GoktimusPrime

8th February 2013, 09:46 PM

SBS 2 just started showing Jet Li's Fearless. While period martial arts movies (or any other kind of historical movies) are interesting to watch, I think it's also important to try and be mindful of facts vs fiction... a lot of the events in Huo's life have been greatly exaggerated (and in many places just plain invented). Here's (http://granitestudio.org/2006/09/24/a-historians-review-of-jet-lis-fearless-who-was-the-real-huo-yuanjia-%E9%9C%8D%E5%85%83%E7%94%B2%EF%BC%9F/) a review of the film from a historical POV. :)

KalEl

9th February 2013, 12:01 PM

GoktimusPrime

13th February 2013, 09:46 AM

The IOC is considering dropping Wrestling from the 2020 Games. :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/21427455

IMO this would be sad news indeed if it happened as I consider Wrestling to the one Olympic Sport that is the closest to practical fighting/self defence. Wrestling was first introduced into the Olympics 2721 years ago in 708BCE!! (although it wasn't until the late 17th/early 18th Century that modern Wrestling came about, introducing restrictive rules to make it more sportslike (e.g. no punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, headbutting or any kind of striking, no holds below the waist etc.) :( I've sparred against Judo, Taekwondo, Fencing and Wrestling, and I've personally found Wrestlers to be the most formidable opponents.

KalEl

13th February 2013, 06:50 PM

If anyone is interested http://t.co/BFf0YbvA

GoktimusPrime

13th February 2013, 10:32 PM

What stance are you supposed to be standing in? (should your back heel be peeling off like that?) And what's with the bouncing (especially toward the end)? I've only ever seen competition fighters "bounce" -- I've never seen any form of bouncing in any kind of traditional form, kata etc.

As far as I can tell, bouncing is only something that came from sport fighters who take advantage of the springier surfaces of boxing rings and other such similar surfaces used for comp fighting (as opposed to fighting on Terra firma). Some traditional forms do employ springing, but that's entirely different from bouncing as it's more to do with plyometrics -- that explosive footwork that allows you to be strong and solid in your stance, but also fast and nimble. Here's a video of a nunchaku kata (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IE2ZkcC9Dvg#t=71s) -- this guy's legwork appears to be nimble but solid, there's a spring or skip in his step, but no actual bouncing.

Bidoofdude

13th February 2013, 11:05 PM

Bartrim

19th February 2013, 09:28 AM

If anyone is interested http://t.co/BFf0YbvA

That looks awesome dude. Well done.

What stance are you supposed to be standing in? (should your back heel be peeling off like that?) And what's with the bouncing (especially toward the end)? I've only ever seen competition fighters "bounce" -- I've never seen any form of bouncing in any kind of traditional form, kata etc.

As far as I can tell, bouncing is only something that came from sport fighters who take advantage of the springier surfaces of boxing rings and other such similar surfaces used for comp fighting (as opposed to fighting on Terra firma). Some traditional forms do employ springing, but that's entirely different from bouncing as it's more to do with plyometrics -- that explosive footwork that allows you to be strong and solid in your stance, but also fast and nimble. Here's a video of a nunchaku kata (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IE2ZkcC9Dvg#t=71s) -- this guy's legwork appears to be nimble but solid, there's a spring or skip in his step, but no actual bouncing.

Thats a bit overly critical Gok. Read the description of the thread. It was a bit of fun after class after 30 minutes total practice time. From what I've seen of KalEl and his martial arts ability if he wanted to perform a proper weapons kata I'm sure he wouldn't have any problems.

The IOC is considering dropping Wrestling from the 2020 Games. :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/21427455

IMO this would be sad news indeed if it happened as I consider Wrestling to the one Olympic Sport that is the closest to practical fighting/self defence. Wrestling was first introduced into the Olympics 2721 years ago in 708BCE!! (although it wasn't until the late 17th/early 18th Century that modern Wrestling came about, introducing restrictive rules to make it more sportslike (e.g. no punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, headbutting or any kind of striking, no holds below the waist etc.) :( I've sparred against Judo, Taekwondo, Fencing and Wrestling, and I've personally found Wrestlers to be the most formidable opponents.

It was either wrestling or modern pentathlon. Considering one of the board of the directors for the International Modern Pentathlon Federation is Juan Antonio Sammarch Jnr wrestling never stood a chance:(

I'm a bit peeved after last night. We are hosting an all styles tournament coming up next month and are putting in alot of effort to make sure we have a strong team competing. So last night we spent alot of time working on kata as it is one area open to compete in. While I was helping alot of younger ranks learn their steps I noticed the teenagers who were in the next class (Muay Thai) were copying us in a mocking fashion. I waited until after class and complained to Sensei. He explained to me that alot of people have the philosophy of "no belt, no respect" and think that all the bowing and traditional aspects are saved for karate and these teenage "cool" gym junkies just want to rock up and show how tough they are belting pads. He said it is something that has bothered him too so with my assistance in the classes we are setting out to abolish the "no belt, no respect" by enforcing respect as the core belief in all classes we teach, karate, Muay Thai and MMA.

So I was a little bit peeved but whipping these teenagers into line should prove to be a fun challenge. I've had a couple in the past who have thought they were tough and I couldn't break them. I've even had one say that to me (he didn't finish the class:D). As much as I believe in the evolution of martial arts I also believe that the traditional values shouldn't be compromised.

GoktimusPrime

19th February 2013, 10:45 AM

With the increasing decline of traditional martial arts, it's not surprising that traditional values are dying off too. :( I personally feel that martial arts has been going backwards in evolution since the end of WWII where people have stopped using melee techniques in modern warfare. Unless you're heaps pro at Hadoukens. :p

But this is a big pet peeve of mine: teachers who continue to train students who are obviously just jerks (and thus potentially thugs). Practising a martial art is a privileged responsibility, and you don't just teach your techniques to any Tom, Dick or Harry that walks off the street. If a person is a dodgy character - and as a teacher you do get to know your students' personality traits - then don't just keep training them as you would any other student!!! If the student is clearly just a thuggish jerk and refuses to change their attitude, then either:
+ Modify their training so that they're not learning any new techniques from you, or only teach them purely defensive techniques and no attacks
+ Expel them from your school. Otherwise they're going to bring your school to disrepute, your style to disrepute and the martial arts community to disrepute.

And both traditional and non-traditional schools are guilty of doing this. e.g. Bruce Lee; a thug taught by a bigger thug (Wong Shun Leung) taught by a drug addict (Yip Man). I share your frustration. Learning a martial art is a big responsibility, and people who learn it should behave in a more responsible and respectful manner and not behave like surly punks. We want to learn to defend ourselves from thugs but not become thugs! The martial arts world would be a better place if some teachers were more discerning about who they teach over just teaching as many students as possible to make money. :(

Thats a bit overly critical Gok. Read the description of the thread. It was a bit of fun after class after 30 minutes total practice time. From what I've seen of KalEl and his martial arts ability if he wanted to perform a proper weapons kata I'm sure he wouldn't have any problems.
Fair point, I hadn't read the description - I just hit the "maximise screen" icon so I could see KalEl's glorious full visage before my eyes. :D :cool:

Sam

24th February 2013, 10:34 PM

With the increasing decline of traditional martial arts, it's not surprising that traditional values are dying off too. :( I personally feel that martial arts has been going backwards in evolution since the end of WWII where people have stopped using melee techniques in modern warfare. Unless you're heaps pro at Hadoukens. :p

But this is a big pet peeve of mine: teachers who continue to train students who are obviously just jerks (and thus potentially thugs). Practising a martial art is a privileged responsibility, and you don't just teach your techniques to any Tom, Dick or Harry that walks off the street. If a person is a dodgy character - and as a teacher you do get to know your students' personality traits - then don't just keep training them as you would any other student!!! If the student is clearly just a thuggish jerk and refuses to change their attitude, then either:
+ Modify their training so that they're not learning any new techniques from you, or only teach them purely defensive techniques and no attacks
+ Expel them from your school. Otherwise they're going to bring your school to disrepute, your style to disrepute and the martial arts community to disrepute.

And both traditional and non-traditional schools are guilty of doing this. e.g. Bruce Lee; a thug taught by a bigger thug (Wong Shun Leung) taught by a drug addict (Yip Man). I share your frustration. Learning a martial art is a big responsibility, and people who learn it should behave in a more responsible and respectful manner and not behave like surly punks. We want to learn to defend ourselves from thugs but not become thugs! The martial arts world would be a better place if some teachers were more discerning about who they teach over just teaching as many students as possible to make money. :(

I think becoming strong can sometimes lead us to become arrogant and overconfident, so practising humility and being responsible is something of a constant reminder.

Your point reminds me of one of my friends whose grandfather knew kung fu (in my friend's words, "he could hold off 18 unarmed men with a staff"), but always refused to teach one of his nephews because he knew his nephew was the kind of person who'd go out and pick fights with people...

GoktimusPrime

27th February 2013, 10:35 PM

I think becoming strong can sometimes lead us to become arrogant and overconfident, so practising humility and being responsible is something of a constant reminder.
One thing I'm not fond of schools where students are strictly confined to train within only people of the same 'category,' whether that be skill level, size, strength, speed etc. I prefer classes where students are often just randomly mixed together so it's very much possible for a raw beginner to be paired up against one of the most senior students in the school. Cos I find that when you're only allowed to train with people of the same level as you, you're not used to fighting against someone who's vastly superior than you, and most importantly, learning how to defend yourself against a superior opponent which is the core of learning self defence anyway. I find direct training with someone who's bigger, stronger, faster and better trained than you is often a good way to learn humility. ;)

Your point reminds me of one of my friends whose grandfather knew kung fu (in my friend's words, "he could hold off 18 unarmed men with a staff"), but always refused to teach one of his nephews because he knew his nephew was the kind of person who'd go out and pick fights with people...
Your friend's grandfather sounds like a wise dude. :) I wish more martial arts teachers were like him... student quality over quantity. Then we'd have less thugs learning martial arts.

I stumbled upon this interesting video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CWG6eglkLa8#t=60s
^It's a demonstration of Chi Na grappling by Taiwanese Police, and it looks similar to the kind of grappling we do in Tai Chi; note that the grappler is always upright and never goes to the ground with the attacker. Grappling is a good form of passive self defence as you don't actually strike the attacker -- from a police POV they would have to learn a lot of passive submission techniques. I particularly found this part of the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CWG6eglkLa8#t=219s) interesting where he's showing counter-techniques to an assailant attempting to grab an officer's holstered firearm, and the golden rule of counter-grappling, don't resist and pull away, rather give in and go into the attacker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CWG6eglkLa8#t=296s). ;)

*sigh* Watching this really makes me miss my old training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cel1-hIO_dc)... wish I could find a proper school. :(

Sam

28th February 2013, 10:09 PM

One thing I'm not fond of schools where students are strictly confined to train within only people of the same 'category,' whether that be skill level, size, strength, speed etc. I prefer classes where students are often just randomly mixed together so it's very much possible for a raw beginner to be paired up against one of the most senior students in the school. Cos I find that when you're only allowed to train with people of the same level as you, you're not used to fighting against someone who's vastly superior than you, and most importantly, learning how to defend yourself against a superior opponent which is the core of learning self defence anyway. I find direct training with someone who's bigger, stronger, faster and better trained than you is often a good way to learn humility. ;)

And it's also a more accurate reflection of real life - it's more often the case that you'd be outnumbered and outmatched. It sounds stupid to say this, but learning to be able to take a thorough beating is actually a survival skill.

GoktimusPrime

28th February 2013, 11:25 PM

And it's also a more accurate reflection of real life - it's more often the case that you'd be outnumbered and outmatched. It sounds stupid to say this, but learning to be able to take a thorough beating is actually a survival skill.
I don't think that sounds stupid at all -- just realistic. If you're gonna get into a real fight, odds are you are gonna get hit. That's why we have endurance and body conditioning training - though not all schools do this... but many should. Some schools don't need to do it because of the nature of their fighting style; like styles that focus on grappling, wrestling and throwing don't have endurance training routines, but then they're constantly being thrown about which naturally builds endurance (much like say a footy player who's used to being tackled). :)

Sam

1st March 2013, 08:11 PM

I don't think that sounds stupid at all -- just realistic. If you're gonna get into a real fight, odds are you are gonna get hit. That's why we have endurance and body conditioning training - though not all schools do this... but many should. Some schools don't need to do it because of the nature of their fighting style; like styles that focus on grappling, wrestling and throwing don't have endurance training routines, but then they're constantly being thrown about which naturally builds endurance (much like say a footy player who's used to being tackled). :)

I am reminded all those years ago when I learned a bit of Tae Kwon Do. I felt there was not enough time spent on body conditioning, and there were techniques we were taught but never expected to use (e.g. sweep kicks). It made me wonder why - surely in a real fight it would be gloves off and whatever goes, and though I understand the rough 80/20 ratio between kicks and punches in TKD, I felt there should have been at least some emphasis on close range defensive techniques, because there are many tough guys (and gals) who can probably take lots of kicks to the head and face and still come charging. Or it could be just that since I only learned for a year I did not get to learn any "elite" techniques (but the stuff I am talking about feels like basic training, at least to me).

GoktimusPrime

1st March 2013, 10:24 PM

A lot of Taekwondo schools in Australia (and the world) teach the Sport version of Taekwondo, not the original/traditional version. The sport version is what you see in the Olympics -- it's all about point scoring and not at all about fighting. I did Sport Taekwondo for a while (thankfully the lessons were free); they don't do any endurance conditioning because they don't expect to be hit. During a free sparring session I charged into my opponent and kneed him in the thigh. He _literally_ started crying (I kid you not). And you're right, there's also no emphasis on close range fighting either, because in comps they just use telescoping long range hits to score points. They don't even do mid-range techniques either -- everything's long distance. I once had lunch with some friends, and a friend of a friend was boasting about how being a champion Taekwondo fighter and all the trophies won and having just come back from overseas and smashing the competition etc. I tried to ignore it, but our lunch conversation just became dominated by this person's boasting. So I offered a friendly challenge -- we went back to our mutual's friend's house, in the garage... as soon as the fight started, I just waltzed right in, grabbed the throat and dropped my opponent to the ground. Fight was over in one move. And even after being dropped, I kept gripping the throat and continued squeezing -- my opponent got so desperate the counter technique was to dig finger nails into the back of my hands to try and scratch me off. It didn't work. Silly bugger wouldn't tap out or anything either... so I eventually let go. :rolleyes: I don't necessarily mind arrogant fighters, so long as they have the skill to back their arrogance! (like say Mohammed Ali!)

But yeah, in this increasing age of commercialised martial arts, stuff like Sports Taekwondo is becoming ever more popular than any traditional martial art. :( Fighting at punching and kicking range is basic level fighting. Beginners are taught to fight at that long range because they lack the skills to get any closer. Intermediate level fighting is more like elbowing and kneeing mid-distance range, and advanced level fighting is just getting right up body to body and just penetrating or piercing their centre of mass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ETiQZzw6w

There's nothing wrong with long and mid range fighting per se... they have their place. Which range you choose to fight at will depend on the context of the fight, particularly in regard to the nature of your opponent. If your opponent's defence is too formidable, then you need to drop back to longer range techniques. I used to spar with a guy who would explain fighting ranges with the "castle" analogy:
* fighting at long range is like attacking the outer moat or walls of a castle
* fighting at mid range is like attacking the draw bridge and main entrance to the castle
* fighting at close range is when you've penetrated the outer defences and you're laying siege to the actual castle itself

Another one is the "Chess" analogy:
* long range fighting = attacking Pawns
* mid range fighting = attacking the Rooks, Bishops, Knights and Queen
* close range fighting = attacking the King

I agree that the training in a lot of schools, especially the sport oriented ones, does feel incredibly basic. And I think it's because the more advanced techniques just aren't used in competitions... they're either non-advantageous (i.e. it doesn't earn you any extra points), or just illegal (as you can see in that video link, some of that guy's closing moves are preludes to groin strikes (or very easily can lead to one)).

But look, to Taekwondo's credit I have noticed that recently TKD schools no longer use the words "Self Defence" in their marketing any more. Check out the official web site for Taekwondo World (kwondoworld.com.au/?page_id=764) <---that's their page about "Benefits" of learning TKD. They list them as: Confidence, Endurance (in the context of fitness, not taking hits), Focus, Leadership, Respect and Sociability. It does _NOT_ mention "Self Defence" at all, and I can respect that. :)

I don't mind if people want to practice a martial art for reasons other than self defence... what irks me more is when a school teaches a martial art for non-self defensive purposes, but claim that they do. That's just dangerously dishonest, as evidenced by Bartrim's story here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=300777&postcount=454).

Bartrim

4th March 2013, 09:01 AM

And both traditional and non-traditional schools are guilty of doing this. e.g. Bruce Lee; a thug taught by a bigger thug (Wong Shun Leung) taught by a drug addict (Yip Man).

Just out of curiousity do you have any evidence of Bruce Lee being a thug? Not disputing just once I read this I went on a hunt to find some info and everything i can find is positive about him.

GoktimusPrime

4th March 2013, 10:27 AM

According to the 1993 issue of Black Belt magazine, "Bruce Lee Collector's Edition," Lee began training in Wing Chun under Yip Man in 1954 after losing a fight with rival gang members at the age of 13. So this means that as a young adolescent, Lee was already:
+ A member of a street gang
+ Getting into fights with rival street gang members
+ Reason for learning Wing Chun was to make him a better street fighter

"I was a punk and went out looking for fights. We used chains and pens with knives hidden inside them." - Bruce Lee (Black Belt Magazine, Oct 1967).

Although Yip Man is credited with being Lee's teacher, most of his teaching was done by one of Man's most senior students, Wong Shun Leung ("Remembering the Master", Sid Campbell 2006), who himself was a thug -- before Wing Chun, Wong had practised either Boxing or Kickboxing, but he quit that after a violent incident with his teacher where he knocked his teacher out (Inside Kung Fu, Vol.18, #2, 1980 / Ving Tsun Update: Wong Shun Leung, Phillip Bayer). After he started learning Wing Chun, he went back to his (Kick)boxing teacher and ended up using his Wing Chun training to beat him into a bloody pulp (Ving Tsun Update: Interview with Wong Shun Leung). Wong also became an active participant in illegal underground street fights in Hong Kong --- a lot of people I've met from Hong Kong associate Kung Fu with thugs, street fighting, triads etc. (Qi magazine interview with Wong Shun Leung, D. Poon). I find quite a few people in the Chinese community here are reluctant to let their kids learn a Chinese martial art and are more likely to let them learn a non-Chinese arts because of the negative stigma attached to Chinese arts (another reason why I'm bitter against thugs being taught martial arts). When I went to China, I met more kids who did Taekwondo or Karate and knew next to nothing about actual Kung Fu or Tai Chi etc. Wong eventually quit street fighting after an incident where he intentionally provoked another martial artist to get into a fight with him, and during that fight he blinded his opponent in one eye! :eek: (G.E. LeBlanc (http://www.garylamwingchun.com/index.php?view=article&catid=34%3Aarticles&id=71%3Awing-chun-qi-sao-training-by-gregory-e-leblanc&option=com_content&Itemid=113)).

Bruce Lee's family said that "if Bruce didn't like someone, he told him straight to his face, which meant he had no trouble finding trouble. He was known to the Hong Kong police." He was a known troublemaker and fighter the English speaking Catholic School (La Salle College) that he ended, from which he was eventually expelled. It was in 1958 (or 1959) that Lee got into a fight with a member from another Kung Fu school/style which resulted in him knocking out his opponent's tooth. Lee was then arrested by police. After his mother retrieved him, she advised Bruce to exercise his rights as an American citizen and migrate to the United States where he was born. His father reluctantly agreed since Lee's school grades were terrible.
(reference (http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=3999)).

In the U.S. Lee became even more unpopular and made even more enemies just by relentlessly peeing people off wherever he went, although part of that reason was because there were a lot of racists in the American Chinese Community at the time (somewhat understandable considering that America was still racially segregated) who objected to Lee teaching martial arts to non-Chinese students. In 1964 this resulted in leaders from the Chinese community issuing a challenge from Kung Fu master Wong Jack Man. Wong recalls that in that fight, he had attempted to shake Lee's hand and Lee pretended to accept it, but turned it into an attempt to eye-gouge Wong, "He really wanted to kill me!" ("Remembering Bruce Lee," James Bishop).

If Lee hadn't become a famous TV and movie star, I wonder if people would still idolise him. There have been far greater Kung Fu fighters than him. Even as the founder of Jeet Kune Do... this style has never been battle-tested (it never will be), and of course, Lee never finished developing Jeet Kune Do because he died before he could. So it was up to students like Dan Inosanto to finish the style, so the Jeet Kune Do that's taught today is a hybrid of what Lee developed and what Inosanto finished (therefore it's not purely Bruce's fighting style, unless you can somehow strip away Inosanto's influence). If you look at a lot of his techniques, it's predominantly that "tit-for-tat" ranged fighting that wouldn't stand against more advanced fighters who'll just close in on you.

IMHO Lee's greatest legacy was that he broke down racial barriers by openly teaching non-Chinese students (and he was willing to fight to defend his right to do so). Beyond that there's nothing he's really done that impresses me from a martial arts perspective. A lot of stuff that's published and said about Bruce Lee is positive, or presented with a positive spin. But sometimes you need to try and look past the glamour of his idol-worship in order to seek the truth. What I find ironic is how some Wing Chun Kung Fu schools hang up massive posters of Bruce Lee; possibly as a marketing gimmick to attract new students... but the irony is that Lee rejected his traditional/classical Wing Chun training when he made Jeet Kune Do! :rolleyes: But I suppose the fact is that until Wong Shun Leung, Wing Chun was a rather obscure martial art in Hong Kong -- and even more obscure in Western countries until Bruce Lee came along (heck, Kung Fu itself was obscure until Lee, since the Chinese community were so secretive and closed about it -- the culture of secrecy is, IMO, makes Kung Fu it's own worst enemy, especially in this day and age where traditional martial arts is ever on the decline :().

Sam

4th March 2013, 10:22 PM

I once had lunch with some friends, and a friend of a friend was boasting about how being a champion Taekwondo fighter and all the trophies won and having just come back from overseas and smashing the competition etc. I tried to ignore it, but our lunch conversation just became dominated by this person's boasting. So I offered a friendly challenge -- we went back to our mutual's friend's house, in the garage... as soon as the fight started, I just waltzed right in, grabbed the throat and dropped my opponent to the ground. Fight was over in one move. And even after being dropped, I kept gripping the throat and continued squeezing -- my opponent got so desperate the counter technique was to dig finger nails into the back of my hands to try and scratch me off. It didn't work. Silly bugger wouldn't tap out or anything either... so I eventually let go. :rolleyes: I don't necessarily mind arrogant fighters, so long as they have the skill to back their arrogance! (like say Mohammed Ali!)

Your story reminds me of one a friend once told me. His friend was the senior student at a place that taught Wing Chun. At times when the instructor was away he'd fill in and teach the class (because he was also the oldest student). One day a young man in full Tae Kwon Do uniform turns up.

My friend said his friend knew it the guy was here to cause trouble, but decided to ignore him to see if he'd lose interest and leave. But the guy kept trying to "spar" with the other students, so eventually my friend's friend told him he could spar with him.

Almost as soon as it started, this guy he his nose broken by the Wing Chun student.

I've found that most of the time, the people that are arrogant and go looking for fights are the ones with all style and no substance.

A lot of stuff that's published and said about Bruce Lee is positive, or presented with a positive spin. But sometimes you need to try and look past the glamour of his idol-worship in order to seek the truth. What I find ironic is how some Wing Chun Kung Fu schools hang up massive posters of Bruce Lee; possibly as a marketing gimmick to attract new students... but the irony is that Lee rejected his traditional/classical Wing Chun training when he made Jeet Kune Do!

It may also be the case that those who promote Wing Chun via Bruce Lee posters were actually ignorant of his less-than-noble past.

From what little I read, Donnie Yen originally had a slightly similar background to Bruce, but perhaps not to the extent that Bruce was (and certainly didn't go around trying to tick people off).

GoktimusPrime

5th March 2013, 12:33 AM

I've found that most of the time, the people that are arrogant and go looking for fights are the ones with all style and no substance.
Indeed... and conversely the best fighters are often the ones who don't brag at all and show little to no outward sign that they have any fighting skill. The "Mr. Miyagi" kind of people. ;)

It may also be the case that those who promote Wing Chun via Bruce Lee posters were actually ignorant of his less-than-noble past.
His dubious past aside, Lee rejected the teachings of Wing Chun (and by extension all traditional (or what he called "Classical") martial arts) and founded Jeet Kune Do. Some of Lee's views on martial arts may be described as... questionable. E.g. Bruce Lee believed in no set stances or forms/patterns (http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/quotes.htm#On form, no - form) -- things that are fundamental to many traditional martial arts, including Wing Chun. Oh, and the fact that the practice of set stances and forms has worked quite successfully for centuries/millenia of pre-machine gun warfare. :rolleyes: IMO generations of brutal combat > one guy's published opinion. :p

From what little I read, Donnie Yen originally had a slightly similar background to Bruce, but perhaps not to the extent that Bruce was (and certainly didn't go around trying to tick people off).
Heh, yeah, as far as I can tell, Yen's antics were pret-ty tame compared to what Lee got up to. And besides, Yen isn't worshipped as a martial arts god by a lot of people -- he doesn't float around purporting to be some high authority on the subject. ;)

Sam

5th March 2013, 07:29 PM

Indeed... and conversely the best fighters are often the ones who don't brag at all and show little to no outward sign that they have any fighting skill. The "Mr. Miyagi" kind of people. ;)

There is a Chinese saying regarding hiding one's true skills... "The real man never gives himself away". I am sure the Japanese have a similar saying.

GoktimusPrime

5th March 2013, 09:25 PM

There is a Chinese saying regarding hiding one's true skills... "The real man never gives himself away". I am sure the Japanese have a similar saying.
Replied here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=345047#post345047) :)

Bartrim

6th March 2013, 07:15 PM

I've been convinced by my sensei to enter the local MASA tournament. I didn't want to enter as I feel my skills aren't equal with those I'll be against but I understand what this tournament means for the growth of our dojo and martial arts in the local community so I'm taking one for the team.

GoktimusPrime

6th March 2013, 10:29 PM

Just think of the benefits of fighting against someone who's a superior opponent -- which is the way people should always be training anyway. :) Remember that the objective of a fight isn't to win or even defeat the attacker, but to survive. You just got to evade them, wait for the opportunity to present itself, then "one hit one kill" (Karate's core motto) -- terminate the fight as swiftly as you can. Many traditional martial arts attribute themselves with names of predatory animals - tiger, mantis, snake etc. -- so like a predator you patiently wait for the opportunity to strike, and when the opportunity strikes you waste no time to just take out your "prey" in a single (or small number of) 'deadly' strike. You watch any documentary of an animal preying on another... once they strike, the struggle is over almost as quickly as it started. That's what you should aim for. The length of your fight should be measured in seconds, not minutes. :)

Good luck!

I recently discovered there's a Goju Karate Dojo not too far from me -- well, it's a bit further away, but they have a lesson on Saturday mornings. I spoke about it with my wife and she's cool with it. So I'm seriously thinking about checking it out sometime in the near future. I already know that Goju is an authentic and traditional style of Okinawan Karate (so it's "battle tested" ;))... I just hope that the school and instructors are good. Here's hoping! :)

GoktimusPrime

10th March 2013, 01:03 AM

So had my first Goju lesson this morning. I went there early and had an interesting chat with the Sensei. He seems to be a traditionalist, although he says that their school also caters for competition fighting, but he says that it's not something that he's personally really into. We also discussed the belt grading system... I told him about how I've only seen Dojos in Japan that just use 3 belts, and he said that when he started learning Karate in the 1970s in Australia, there were far fewer belts than there are now. But he said that it's actually the students who like to have more belts! :eek: :confused: Sensei said that he also wasn't a big fan of competition fighting and also said that comp training was counter intuitive to traditional Karate training since it imposes rules. Sensei told me that during their Kumite/sparring sessions, the only rules they impose are:
+ No eye gouging
+ No hits to the face, but light contact is allowed
+ No hits to the ribs, but light contact is allowed
...that's it! He told me that except for those restrictions, anything else is fair game! :D :) :D

The school didn't offer any free trial lesson (:(), so I ended up paying $30 annual membership/insurance and $10 for the lesson. Comparatively much cheaper than what I paid for my GKR trial.

Anyway, thoughts about the lesson...

We started doing Kihon/basics --- attacking and blocking in the air. The hall had mirrors, which was handy. The blocking techniques feel very traditionally Okinawan -- nice tight blocks. Also, if you're doing a block wrong, Sensei will give a practical demonstration as to why the technique is wrong; e.g. if there's a hole in your defence, he'll throw a strike and narrowly miss by centimetres, or if your block is at an incorrect angle, he'll press against you so you can feel your defence collapsing. From a traditionalist POV, this is just common sense... but having been away from a traditional MA class for so long, it felt like such a relief seeing someone teach this way! As with GKR, all the white belts stood at the front row near the entrance/exit with Sensei in front. I prefer classes that do it the other way around, with seniors lined up near the instructor, while juniors are right up the back. I personally prefer the seniors at front method because the seniors behind method feels like "the blind leading the blind." With all the Sempais behind us, we white belts can either look at Sensei or at each other for reference. This Sensei actually walked around the hall while we practised, which is very good, but of course when Sensei is out of your line of sight, the next nearest person you can look at is the student next to you -- which is what I did, and Sensei later said, "He's just started too, so don't copy him." Well... okay. In seniors-in-front classes, as a beginner because everyone in front of you is more senior than you, then you constantly have people who are more experienced to look at. The only people who don't have other students to look at are the most senior students, who wouldn't need that sort of assistance anyway. There's also another historical advantage to having seniors-in-front too (i.e. in feudal times, any invaders to the school would have to fight through the most senior students first, rather than using noobs as your first line of defence (unless you see them as disposable pawns)).

After basics we then did some fitness activities that didn't seem to bear any immediate relevance to martial arts (i.e. didn't use any martial arts techniques) -- two person sit ups, crunches and bare knuckle push ups. We then paired up and did non contact drill work at a distance. My heart sank at this stage and I thought, "Oh please not this again..." but then afterwards Sensei told us to step into contact range, and we practised the same techniques again but with contact. What a relief! Although my main criticism would still be that everything was still too "choreographed." We all had to attack/block in unison, and pause when told. We only moved on Sensei's command which I don't feel is as effective as a teaching method as just letting students continually move at their own pace. In Tai Chi we would start slowly, then gradually increase the speed and strength of the attacks according to how much we could handle. Doing everything according to choreographed voice command also meant that we actually did fewer repetitions of each technique than if we'd just been allowed to pace ourselves. :/ We did do some basic grappling and counter-grappling stuff too, so that was good... although I could tell that some of the other students in the class weren't very familiar with proper/decent grappling techniques (i.e. how to grip/grab the wrist or gi properly) -- the all too familiar problem of partner over-compliance. :rolleyes: But to Sensei's credit, he didn't reprimand me for not being overtly compliant, rather he just demonstrated the techniques on me to show my partner how the technique could still work against a more resilient grab. :) :)

So yeah... this Dojo feels MUCH more traditionalist in attitude than GKR. And so it should -- this school's lineage traces directly to Ryukyu/Okinawa and Fujian, China (Fujian Kung Fu being the precursor to Okinawan Karate). There are some elements of the class that I thought could've been better, but to be fair, it's only been one lesson. Perhaps future lessons will prove more constructive, especially as I progress. Here's hoping! :cool:

Oh, apparently Goju's been influenced by Baguazhang (a Northern Kung Fu style (Fujian is Southern)), and I've done some Bagua training before (it has some similarities to Tai Chi, which is also a Northern Chinese Kung Fu style), and I honestly don't see much similarity. I see more similarity between Baguazhang and Aikido --- there's some evidence that suggests that Aikido may have been influenced by Bagua... it's something that a lot of martial artists will debate over, but consider this: Ueshiba Morihei developed Aikido immediately after returning to Japan after living in Japanese-occupied Manchuria in the early 1940s. Even some of Ueshiba's former students believe that he learnt/developed his mastery of internal power while in Northern China/Manchuria.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This guy has impressive skills with a sword... people are calling him the "Heisei Samurai" ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M9up8WL1iM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzhs1Z8Rwnk

KalEl

10th March 2013, 03:13 AM

After basics we then did some fitness activities that didn't seem to bear any immediate relevance to martial arts (i.e. didn't use any martial arts techniques)

Are you against fitness and endurance training? IMHO Though not using martial arts techniques, fitness training in any form is relevant. Cardio vascular health and strenth is a fundamental park of Martial arts.

If you Can't Breath, how can you fight.

Not looking for an argument just curious on you comment is all, that being said im glad you are giving something else a go and hopefully it is more suited to your 'tastes'. :)

In more personal news, I hit the bag tonight for the first time in a year give or take. (more kicked, but you get the point). Glad to see there is still some power there :D mind you all be it a bit slow.

GoktimusPrime

10th March 2013, 11:50 AM

Oh no, I'm not against it at all - and I totally agree that fitness and endurance and conditioning are all important. It's just that in Tai Chi we had fitness and endurance training that was always somehow relevant to our martial arts training, e.g. meditating in stances, doing forms very slowly with weights (where we had to hold our punches and kicks in mid air), Tai Chi Push Hands is a form of resistance training too (but also a direct fighting practice exercise). The reasoning was that we could do other forms of non-martial arts related exercise between classes, but that martial arts class times were for martial arts training. Also, meditation deals with autogenic breathing, which research has shown (http://www.urbancombatives.com/fear.htm) is absolutely more relevant to survival stress reaction/timing. While I totally agree that improved fitness will improve breathing, it's that autogenic form of breathing that's more relevant to a fight situation.

I have no objection to fitness and endurance training -- I would just prefer it if it could be done in a way that was more directly relevant to martial arts training. But this is just my personal preference... I'm not saying that there's anything 'wrong' with those exercises per se. :)

Another difference that caught me off guard is that Goju pivots on the ball of the foot, whereas in Tai Chi we pivot off the heel. I think both methods have their merits -- pivoting off the heel is a centripetal movement which provides greater stability and is more optimum for close range attacks, whereas pivoting off the ball is a centrifugal movement and may be more optimum for longer range attacks. I've always been taught to pivot off the heel though (as Tai Chi likes to get in very close)... so that's something different I'm gonna have to get used to in Goju. :) But I do like how this school does focus not only on how your end stance looks like, but how you actually transition into those stances. It's something we always focused on in Tai Chi too, and I found that GKR totally glossed over it. I saw a lot of students awkwardly performing katas because they only thought about the individual stances that they needed to get to, but without consideration of how to get there... especially during turns (I personally think they should teach the twisted stance as a stance on its own -- because they do actually go into it during the kata, but don't appear to realise that they do).

KalEl

10th March 2013, 12:08 PM

So it's more than you aren't used that style of fitness training. Fair enough mate.

We both agree though, correct breathing is key to all.

GoktimusPrime

10th March 2013, 01:31 PM

So it's more than you aren't used that style of fitness training. Fair enough mate.
Yeah, pretty much. :)

Another thing I didn't mention is that the hall is really clean -- I trained barefoot, and for the first time ever it didn't freak me out! It's even cleaner than Dojo floors in Japan - which still get grotty despite the fact that they make all the students get down and run up and down to clean the floor with rags. Ever seen that scene in Spirited Away where Chihiro and others are scrubbing the floors by hand (http://static.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/1225053-bigthumbnail.jpg)? That's exactly how students have to clean the Dojo at the end of each lesson in Japan. :o I dunno who cleans the hall at this Goju Dojo, but they do a damn fine job. :) Possibly also because the class is in the morning, so we're the first group of people to use it and it hasn't been dirtied by other people throughout the day. <shrug>

Bartrim

11th March 2013, 08:48 AM

GoktimusPrime

11th March 2013, 09:58 PM

Finally saw "Penn & Teller B.S" martial arts episode last night. My wife found it really interesting. Especially the physics behind board breaking and now understands when my Sensei wants to put on a public demonstration involving that sort of thing why I refuse to assist.
^http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/th_like.jpg

Aah yes... the long list of martial arts parlour tricks designed to dupe the ignorant and gullible.
Shaolin Monk tricks explained (http://www.triumphofmind.net/2011/05/shaolin-tricks-explained-or-breaking.html) <---it's not ancient mysticism, it's physics! :rolleyes: *sigh*

I actually wouldn't mind learning board and slab breaking, purely so I could use it to teach principles of science. I would never do it in a martial arts demonstration though! And if anything, half the reason I'd want to show it to students is so that they don't get duped by these tricks if they encounter them! :)

GoktimusPrime

12th March 2013, 11:30 PM

Check this video out... (contains violence, parental discretion advised)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3SXtwzp0TA

Now that is a proper attack! :D Note that the attacker (shirtless) actually practises "one hit one kill" -- he strikes the defender (white shirt) with a single punch which knocks him down, then he wastes little time in just burying into the defender while he's down, continually and relentlessly attacking him while he's down instead of giving him the chance to stand up. Okay sure, in a competition this is illegal and this guy was probably disqualified -- but looking at it from an actual fighting POV, he's actually done pretty damn well*! :)

-------------------------------------------
*I am by no means condoning this sort of violence, but I think it's important to be able to understand and analyse these kind of vicious attacks in order to be better prepared to defend against them.

GoktimusPrime

15th March 2013, 12:25 AM

Heh, today I was practising some Bagua (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baguazhang) Circle Walking (http://www.energyarts.com/bagua-circle-walking) (mine's very simple, no where near as sophisticated as the dude in that video link)... then I realised that it was Pi Day in mm/dd countries (e.g. USA, Canada, Japan etc., cos March 14 = 3.14 = Pi)! :D *nerdy.snort.laff* It wasn't my intention, but yeah, it dawned on me while I was practising. Bazinga! :) I'll need to do something circular too for the Australian (dd/mm) Pi Day. ;)

Bagua applications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4u5zN69nBQ)

Bartrim

15th March 2013, 08:02 AM

These "novelty" holidays are so lame IMO:rolleyes: Just excuses for people to try and feel clever.

Anyway last night in MMA I learnt something new. We were practicing rear chokes. Single choke, rear naked etc etc. Then my Sensei used me for a demonstration. He got me in the rear naked choke position but instead of squeezing his arms around my esophagus to choke he just took a deep breath in. I couldn't believe the crushing pain I felt. I was really amazed.

GoktimusPrime

15th March 2013, 03:27 PM

These "novelty" holidays are so lame IMO:rolleyes: Just excuses for people to try and feel clever.
...and an excuse to eat pies, doughnuts, pizzas, pancakes and anything else circular. Mmm... ;)

Anyway last night in MMA I learnt something new. We were practicing rear chokes. Single choke, rear naked etc etc. Then my Sensei used me for a demonstration. He got me in the rear naked choke position but instead of squeezing his arms around my esophagus to choke he just took a deep breath in. I couldn't believe the crushing pain I felt. I was really amazed.
I didn't know what that was for a moment, then I Googled it -- I've been referring to this hold as a "(rear) triangular headlock," but now I know the proper name for it. :D I've had to use this hold before IRL to break up a fight once -- although I didn't put any pressure to apply any real choking or pain, my objective was purely to stop the fight but not hurt the people involved. Worked a treat - fight was stopped and nobody got hurt. :)

Did you learn/practise the counter technique for that hold?

Bartrim

16th March 2013, 08:48 PM

Did you learn/practise the counter technique for that hold?

No that's next week. When we do submissions we spend one whole lesson learning the move then spend the next class learning to counter the move and then in some cases we learn a counter to the counter like a few weeks ago we did armbars, then we learnt countermoves to armbars then the next week we learnt when someone tries to counter your armbar how to put them in a oma plata (sp?)

Bidoofdude

16th March 2013, 10:32 PM

I can now break wooden boards. Quite simple actually, though I'm SOOO not ready for bricks and I'll never do that.:cool::p

GoktimusPrime

16th March 2013, 11:07 PM

I can now break wooden boards. Quite simple actually, though I'm SOOO not ready for bricks and I'll never do that.:cool::p
Those kinds of parlour tricks aren't martial arts and have nothing to do with real martial arts (as has been often discussed on this thread). :rolleyes: A neat party trick perhaps, but it's not doing anything to help develop your ability to fight.

You might want to watch this (contains some coarse language)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHwKnXi8J08

Bidoofdude

17th March 2013, 01:20 PM

Yeah. I know. I just like how they look. :D

KalEl

17th March 2013, 02:23 PM

Those kinds of parlour tricks aren't martial arts and have nothing to do with real martial arts (as has been often discussed on this thread). :rolleyes: A neat party trick perhaps, but it's not doing anything to help develop your ability to fight.

You might want to watch this (contains some coarse language)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHwKnXi8J08

bet you like that mark bloke gok :P

GoktimusPrime

17th March 2013, 02:36 PM

Fair enough. Just so long as you're not being deceived. :)

----------------------------------------------------

Yesterday I went to my 2nd Goju Karate lesson. Thoughts:

:)
+ Sensei repeatedly reminded people the importance of keeping the groin defended, and would sometimes deliver a groin attack (stopping a few cm of striking the groin) to show if someone's exposed there.
+ Sensei is very much into perfecting stances and basics, but mindful to also demonstrate the practical reasons as to why they need to be done correctly. e.g. if your guard is incorrect, he will show you where you are exposed. Form with function.
+ Sensei has a very commanding presence; it's very typically Japanese (his Sensei was from Japan and Sensei himself has done some training in Japan). As a result, everyone just shuts up and listens and the class runs quite smoothly and efficiently.

:o
/ The hall's floor wasn't as clean as it was last week. It was quite dirty actually. I guess last week I must've just lucked out. I did ask Sensei if I could wear martial arts shoes, but he said no.

:(
- Sensei seems to have little patience for beginners, and especially kids. He seems to get quite easily frustrated with them. He chips people for making any kind of mistake, regardless of the effort people put in. I can understand chipping into a student who's inattentive or just not trying... but he'll also equally chip into a student who's trying his best, but still isn't perfect (because they're still learners!). I think Sensei would be more effective if he metered out his reprimands more sparingly... cos otherwise it just sounds like nagging, which for a lot of the especially younger students, just goes in one ear and out the other as they become desensitised to it.
- While I mentioned the advantage of the Japanese "shut up and listen" style of teaching before, the disadvantage is that it doesn't foster a culture of critical learning. Nobody asks questions during class, and Sensei doesn't give any opportunities for questions or discussions before or after class. It's like there's an unspoken rule that when your class has finished, you have to get out of the Dojo. There's a senior class that follows for coloured belts... so hopefully if I stay with this school long enough to get graded, I can start attended that class and see if that's more conducive to more critical and deeper-enriched learning. But if this Dojo is emulating the Japanese style of teaching, then there's virtually no critical/academic learning at all, even with black belts. It's more like mindless obedience, which is what I experienced when I trained in Japan (there's a book called "Angry White Pyjamas" which documents well what MA training in Japan is like; which the author sometimes describes as sadistic*).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Even if you start bleeding from your wounds they still push you to keep training. I doubt that any school in Australia would ever engage in such questionable practises (for fear of legal litigation if nothing else :o).

Bidoofdude

17th March 2013, 03:33 PM

Nah. Just learnt it on my own.;):D

GoktimusPrime

17th March 2013, 10:36 PM

Nah. Just learnt it on my own.;):D
LOL, that's freaking AWESOME!! *high.fives* http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/highfive.gif
Muahahahahaha, that's so cool! Board breaking -- a technique that requires so many years of hard training, conditioning and skill... that a random 13 year old kid can work it out by himself and do it! YES!!! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/gif_g1-bumblebeedance.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/gif_g1-cliffjumperdance.gif
Aww man... *wipes.tear.from.eye* that's classic. You win the thread. :cool:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/jaam_yum.gif

GoktimusPrime

20th March 2013, 09:53 AM

Gguuhh... a person I know who practises GKR recently seriously injured her back in training. :( I wasn't there when this happened... so I don't know if the injury occured despite the school having exercised reasonable duty of care, or if it occured through any form of negligence on part of the instructor/school -- I honestly don't know and I'm not making any insinuations on this case... but I really hope that it wasn't a case of negligence. Anyone who's been involved in martial arts long enough knows that, unfortunately, deriliction of duty of care is rampant in many schools - and cases of negligence affects everyone because it drives up insurance premiums, and the cost of insurance is passed onto students. :(

Bartrim

26th March 2013, 09:53 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsjRTwfEGPI

Yes I know you probably think this is unrealistic from a traditional point of view Gok but it still looks awesome:p

GoktimusPrime

26th March 2013, 05:24 PM

Hey... at the end of the day, the best technique is the technique that works. As utterly ridiculous looking as that kick is, it clearly took his opponent down in a single move, which evokes the spirit of Karate (one hit one kill)! :D So kudos to him for pulling it off! I think what makes that video so hilarious is that such an odd move actually worked!

A lot of techniques work by just being strange and confusing opponents with their unorthodox nature. Monkey Style Kung Fu has a lot of similarly weird moves where they attack in an inverted position. Capoeira also has a lot of inverted attacks - something adapted by African-Brazilian slaves who couldn't fight normally because they were cuffed and shackled. But the difference between what this guy did and what other 'inverted fighting' styles do is that Monkey and Capoeira fighters still have some form of stance, even when upside down -- i.e. they stand on their hands. Capoeira practitioners have unbelievably fantastic balancing skills. The guy in that video however drops on his upper back which is a lot more inherently hazardous, and is something you're more likely to get away with in a nice padded-floor tournament fight rather than in a street fight where dropping on concrete or asphalt etc. is more likely to hurt you (let alone if there's some sharp object lying on the ground!). Capoeira is descendant from African martial arts, some of which use a lot of really high-to-low splaying stancework, and so does Monkey Style -- the stuff can look quite "silly" compared to most other martial arts, but can be surprisingly effectual in a fight. :)

But hey... that fighter clearly understood the environment he was fighting in and exploited it to his advantage. Good for him. :D

Bidoofdude

26th March 2013, 05:37 PM

LOL, that's freaking AWESOME!! *high.fives* http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/highfive.gif
Muahahahahaha, that's so cool! Board breaking -- a technique that requires so many years of hard training, conditioning and skill... that a random 13 year old kid can work it out by himself and do it! YES!!! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/gif_g1-bumblebeedance.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/gif_g1-cliffjumperdance.gif
Aww man... *wipes.tear.from.eye* that's classic. You win the thread. :cool:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/jaam_yum.gif
I laughed so hard at this.
It's quite simple. Though mainly they're like REALLY thin or medium to thick balsa boards. Wouldn't dream of some REALLY hard wood or bricks.:eek::p

Bartrim

26th March 2013, 07:10 PM

I laughed so hard at this.
It's quite simple. Though mainly they're like REALLY thin or medium to thick balsa boards. Wouldn't dream of some REALLY hard wood or bricks.:eek::p

Actually like wood it is a matter of hitting a brick in the right spot. It is harder and can hurt an unconditioned hand but it is still doable.

GoktimusPrime

26th March 2013, 09:00 PM

I've only ever seen board breaking done with pine (a soft wood). It's always such a clean break too. I'd like to see someone try it with solid oak or ironwood. ;)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/memeboardbreaking_zps5c9adadf.jpg

Hot Rodimus

28th March 2013, 08:47 AM

Gok - I might be wrong but sometimes I think you get caught up in the 'romance' or 'mystic' side of Martial Arts. I can relate as when I used to study TMA I too was guilty of this until I broadened my horizons and gained 'practical hands on' experience and training. I say this as I wonder when you have seen or can share where monkey style, drunken style or capoeira has been used effectively. Personaly I see both as a hobby or dance with little use as the liklehood of pulling it off in a fight is extremely slim...I would say the same for trying to use it in decent hard contact sparring too.

I am wrong all the time though and always open to others experiences

GoktimusPrime

28th March 2013, 12:35 PM

While Monkey Style and certainly Capoeira are certainly widely practised more as performance/dance styles, that doesn't mean that they're not necessarily effectual martial arts. It just means that they're not taught as effectual martial arts (so for the people who learn it that way, it doesn't work for them as a fighting style).

Personaly I see both as a hobby or dance with little use as the liklehood of pulling it off in a fight is extremely slim...I would say the same for trying to use it in decent hard contact sparring too.
In the way that Monkey Style and certainly Capoeira is taught in many schools, I'd say you're right. But if it's taught "properly" - i.e. in a "traditional" sense, then I see no reason why they cannot function as fighting styles. Monkey Style originates from ancient China, with some styles tracing their lineage to the Shaolin Temple. Capoeira traces its lineage back to African martial arts -- some of their high-to-low stancework is similar to what you may see in say Zulu fighting styles (but modified by slaves).

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZyYBtbnDg) gives a basic demonstration of how real Monkey Style is supposed to work, as opposed to this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLofezE3sM0) which shows Monkey Style Wushu, the highly stylised performance art which I reckon would be utterly useless in a fight. I had a lecturer at uni who studied Wushu in China, and he told me that while I was a lot of fun and great exercise, "If someone can use it in a fight, I'll eat my hat." ;) I personally know someone, who's a decent fighter, but got beaten in a match against a Monkey fighter.

So yeah, it all depends on how it's taught/studied. ;)

GoktimusPrime

30th March 2013, 11:10 PM

If you're gonna practice no-contact fighting, you might as well do it in style! (http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/dragon-ball-z-makankosappo-kamehameha) ;) :D

.................................................. ....

On a different note, there was no Karate class today because of the long w/e, so I went to last Thursday's class instead. I quite enjoyed the lesson. :) Smaller class, more individualised attention. The instructor was a Sempai rather than a Sensei, but I actually prefer his teaching methodology a whole lot more than Sensei's! ;) I'm seriously thinking about switching to Thursday nights, because it recently dawned on me that my Saturday mornings won't be free anymore from next year. :o

Sinnertwin

31st March 2013, 09:41 PM

If you're gonna practice no-contact fighting, you might as well do it in style! (http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/dragon-ball-z-makankosappo-kamehameha) ;) :D

Energy Transfer! That's a legit art! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNAWff9Daqg

Oh, wait, it isn't... :( ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBrus

Bartrim

1st April 2013, 11:25 AM

If you're gonna practice no-contact fighting, you might as well do it in style! (http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/dragon-ball-z-makankosappo-kamehameha) ;) :D

We are so doing this at the next meet up:D

Energy Transfer! That's a legit art! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNAWff9Daqg

Oh, wait, it isn't... :( ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBrus

I love those videos. Seen them plenty of times. You need to do a you tube search for George Dillman.

Sinnertwin

1st April 2013, 04:24 PM

Oh, George... Somebody's been playing a bit too much Street Fighter.

GoktimusPrime

1st April 2013, 09:56 PM

BUAHAHAHAHAHA!! I love the deadpan sarcastic Facebook "fan page" for Yanagi Ryuken - the description says:
"Grand Master of all fighting. This man of steel stands behind a nearly flawless 200-1 combat record. The single loss, as we all know, was attributed to blatant cheating (through actual physical contact) by the challenger."
^ROFL!!! :D :D

------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, when I started doing Goju Karate, I was given a handout that explains the basic stances and hand/arm strike techniques. The photos are incredibly grainy and of shocking quality, and there are some errors that I've noticed - some are minor semantic errors (e.g. Musubidachi being spelt "Mushubidachi"), but others are more ... well, confusing. And it's not just in this handout, but also in Dojo practice.

So here's where I need advice from those of you with greater Karate experience/knowledge than me.

(1) Uchihachi-dachi (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Uchihachijidachi.svg)
Yeah, that's what the handout calls it, and it's what it's what they call it in Dojo... but I think it should be more accurately called Uchihachijidachi (i.e. inverted character eight stance), because the feet are aligned as if they're inside the Chinese character for "8" (hachi) which looks like this: 八. Also... is it just me, or does this stance feel the same as the basic "Wing Chun" stance? Incidentally, the proper name for what most people refer to as the Wing Chun stance is 二字箝羊馬 which means "character two gripping sheep-horse" stance. :eek: I personally think the Japanese name feels more intuitive to me as I just need to imagine my feet forming the Kanji for "hachi," but according to this site (http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.WingChunGlossary#Y) the Chinese name refers to using 2 legs to grip the back of a goat (the "horse" part, I guess, probably comes in as it's seen to be a variation of the Riding Horse Stance (since you would be in Riding Horse Stance if you pivoted your feet out 2 more times (heel-ball))), so it seems to have nothing to do with the shape of "two" in Chinese characters (二).
So my questions are: (a) should this stance more accurately be called "Uchihachijidachi", and (b) how does it compare with the Wing Chun stance?

(2) Shiko-dachi (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Shikodachi.svg)
The way that the handout describes it and the way that it's practised, it just feels like a Kibadachi (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Kibadachi.svg) (Riding Horse Stance). Kibadachi I'm familiar with, as we also use the Riding Horse Stance in Kung Fu/Tai Chi... but Shikodachi isn't a name that I'm familiar with. But it looks and feels just like Kibadachi. I once asked a black belt Sempai what the difference was, and he didn't seem to understand what a Kibadachi is. :confused: From what I can tell, it seems that the two stances are almost the same, but with the primary difference being the positioning of the feet -- Kibadachi being with both feet parallel, and Shikodachi being with feet pointed 45 degrees outward. So if I were to stand in Kibadachi and then bring my heels together to stand up straight, I'd be standing at attention, but if I were to stand in Shikodachi and do the same thing, my feet would form a right angle (i.e. I'd be in Musubidachi). Is this correct?
Some schools (like GKR) refer to this as the "Sumo stance," which is understandable as it is used in Sumo (though obviously not exclusively). :) Some translate it as the "straddle horse stance" (as opposed to riding horse stance - the "ki" (騎) in Kiba refers to cavalry). I've also noticed that the instructors at the Dojo call it "Square dachi" (or at least, that's how it sounds like to me). When I say "Shikodachi" Sempai doesn't understand me, then I slurred my pronunciation of "Shiko" so it kinda sounded more like "square" (so in the end I sounded like I was saying "tsukue," which means "desk" :p)... then he understood me. :rolleyes: Again... I really don't get the point of using Japanese names for stuff in an Australian Dojo, especially if people are having trouble pronouncing it. Just call it "Square stance" or "Straddle stance." In the handout, on the page that shows photos of the stances, where it says "Shikodachi," there's a photo of someone doing a completely different stance. I don't know what that stance is, but it looks nothing like the Shiko dachi we do in the Dojo or as described anywhere. I suspect they stuck the wrong photo there.
So my question is: are my assumptions about the difference between Shikodachi and Kibadachi correct?

(3) Enpi & Hijiuchi
The handout and Dojo teaches/illustrates "enpi" (meaning "monkey elbow") as an upward elbow strike, and Hijiuchi (meaning "elbow strike") as an inward ridge-hand strike. Huh? :confused: Okay, the 'enpi' part I get... but "Hijiuchi" sounds like a synonym for enpi. If anything, enpi is a kind of hijiuchi. How does a ridge hand strike qualify as a "elbow strike"?? :confused:
Question: isn't the ridge hand strike in Karate called the "Haitō-uchi" (背刀打ち)?
"Haitou" literally means "back blade strike," which I'm guessing is referring to the ridge of the hand as the "back blade", or some call it the "inside knife hand," as opposed to the "outside knife hand" which is 手刀 (shutō). Haitō, Shutō... makes sense to me. Btw, I've noticed that virtually everyone I've encountered mispronounces "shutō" as "shūtō" ("shoo-toh" or "shew-toh"). The "toh" part is fine, but the "shu" should be much shorter, like abruptly telling someone to "shush!", but without the final "sh" on the end. Or we could all just say "outside knife hand" in English! ;)

So yeah, I'm planning on going to this Thursday's lesson (as I find the Thu instructor much more approachable than the Saturday Sensei) with the handout with my notes scrawled all over it. But if anyone can shed any light on this in the meantime, it'd be greatly appreciated. :)

Bartrim

2nd April 2013, 10:10 AM

Sinnertwin

2nd April 2013, 10:28 AM

I tried moving a fridge using chi power. Looks like its back to George's dojo for me.

Bartrim

2nd April 2013, 11:46 AM

Damn UFC. Watching this season of The Ultimate Fighter and seeing Uriah Hall knock out Adam Cella in Episode 3 I have had to wait until Episode 11 to watch him fight again. After 2 months ther is only 1 more day to go and I can't wait. Also he is fighting one of the biggest d-bags in the house so I hope he destroys him.

Behold the beauty of the knockout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_nkOyu201M

GoktimusPrime

2nd April 2013, 12:51 PM

I've tried every argument with my sensei about chi. I've tried the "Lets spar you use chi energy and I use physical force", I've tried the "If chi is a form of energy then there should be a scale of measurement". Everytime I bring up the myths he just pulls rank and changes the subject.
Of course he won't accept your challenge! Chi powers don't work on people who:
A. Don't hold their tongue and toes in the correct position.
B. Are skeptical.

Chi power attacks are extremely powerful against true believers who have their tongue and toes in the exact position! ;) Cos what kind of random street thug doesn't walk around with a steadfast belief in chi attacks and their body parts all in the correct alignment?! :cool:

So then they are banging these boards on the corner of the stage and nothing is happening. So I just went the full "Oh noes! Whats wrong? You could break dem before but not now WTF?!":p After about 2 minutes of this (Sensei was doing weapon kata demonstrations during all this) I explained the physics to the kids and showed them the grain of the board and amazingly they were able to break them... I'm not sure if it was because I showed them about breaking with the grain or if their chi energy had recharged after breaking the boards earlier?... It was probably the latter:p
They probably had the wrong side of their buttocks clenched. :cool:

Bartrim

6th April 2013, 11:47 PM

Ha!

I've mentioned before about the "no belt, no respect" problem we have had in our dojo where some of the Muay Thai and MMA guys just want to get in and show how tough they are and have openly said they don't care about the traditional aspects. They now have to do kata at their gradings.

GoktimusPrime

7th April 2013, 08:32 AM

...not that belts or gradings are remotely traditional (katas are traditional though :)). And while the grading/belt system might sift out some of the thugs, it won't filter them all out. I've personally come across two people Karateka - one was a brown belt who was nearly on his black belt, and the other had acquired his black belt as a child. Both are very angry and violent people who, IMHO, should never have been given martial arts training (but they have because they've been very patient and persistent in their training).

In my personal observation, I find that the belt/grading system really tests a student's patience rather than their ethics. People who drop out aren't necessarily people who are thugs, but just people who have become dissatisfied with the training, or for whatever other reason have chosen to stop training. Now of course, a lot of people with poor attitudes also happen to be impatient, but as my experience has shown me, there are also angry/violent people who are willing to be patient and wait it out.

A far better way to sort students out is just to rely on instructor's discretion. When you train with people regularly you get to know their personalities. You yourself know who are the respectful and who are the disrespectful students in your Dojo. You don't need any belt/grades to tell you that! :) Just by talking with them and watching how they train, you can see what kind of person they are -- you get to see their personalities and attitudes. As if you need to put ALL of your students through rigorous gradings to tell who the jerks are. :p

Quite frankly, schools should just approach students with the inappropriate attitude and either expel them, or modify their training so that they're not learning any new techniques for hurting people. Disrespectful and irresponsible people who are trained in martial arts only serve to tarnish the reputation of all martial artists in the community (let alone bringing disrepute to your school). :(

Bidoofdude

7th April 2013, 03:40 PM

This isn't really martial arts, but I've been training myself in agility and maintaining silence while moving.
I've managed to sneak up on a few of my family.:p:D

Kazza

7th April 2013, 03:51 PM

This isn't really martial arts, but I've been training myself in agility and maintaining silence while moving.
I've managed to sneak up on a few of my family.:p:D

That's the premise to any good old slasher movie.:p

Sinnertwin

7th April 2013, 04:20 PM

That's the premise to any good old slasher movie.:p

This isn't really martial arts, but I've been training myself in agility and maintaining silence while moving.
I've managed to sneak up on a few of my family.:p:D

If you can do it in your TC costume, you will have reached enlightenment.

GoktimusPrime

7th April 2013, 04:24 PM

If you can do it in your TC costume, you will have reached enlightenment.
lololololololol :D

Bidoofdude

7th April 2013, 06:08 PM

If you can do it in your TC costume, you will have reached enlightenment.

I hope so...:p

(And let it be known I am not exactly good at Shuriken.:p:o I did get one excellent throw though.:D)

GoktimusPrime

7th April 2013, 09:27 PM

Meh... who needs Shuriken when your Thundercracker costume will have arm-mounted machine guns? ;)

Bidoofdude

7th April 2013, 09:38 PM

Nah. Just the null rays. (Probably won't be finished in a week though:()

Sinnertwin

7th April 2013, 10:24 PM

Nah. Just the null rays. (Probably won't be finished in a week though:()

Patience, young Seeker, patience.

GoktimusPrime

7th April 2013, 10:40 PM

Meh... who needs Shuriken when your Thundercracker costume will have arm-mounted machine guns? ;)

Nah. Just the null rays. (Probably won't be finished in a week though:()

Actually... we're both wrong. Thundercracker has incendiary guns. Starscream has null rays, and Skywarp has machine guns! *tsk* Look at us getting our Seeker weapons mixed up! :p

Sinnertwin

7th April 2013, 10:54 PM

Actually... we're both wrong. Thundercracker has incendiary guns. Starscream has null rays, and Skywarp has machine guns! *tsk* Look at us getting our Seeker weapons mixed up! :p

And you call yourselves fans! :p
*quietly leaves thread before anybody realises i missed it too*

GoktimusPrime

12th April 2013, 11:57 PM

Sparred last night... been sore all day today. :o

Bartrim

15th April 2013, 01:00 PM

Sparred last night... been sore all day today. :o

What are the sparring guidelines?

GoktimusPrime

15th April 2013, 06:29 PM

What are the sparring guidelines?
No attacks to the face. Everything else is fair game. Only "soft" strikes to the groin and ribs are allowed. I found that the students' that I sparred with:
+ Good defence below the neck - excellent groin defence. ;)
+ Craphouse defence above the neck. :rolleyes:
+ Students were good with long range fighting but poor at close range fighting. Students were utterly inept at countering any form of grappling and were completely incapable of performing breakfalls. I don't think these students have ever been grabbed or thrown before! :eek: I was speaking to another Karate practitioner earlier today who said that at his Dojo one of the first things they learn is breakfalling - and he raised an excellent point - because beginners are far more likely to _need_ to know how to breakfall than a more experienced student! :) One student actually went, "Ow!Ow!Ow!Ow!Ow!Ow!" when I put him in a wrist lock. :eek: It wasn't even that "intense" of a wrist lock... I think he just had never felt what it's like to be wrist locked before!

Most of the time when I closed in to drop my opponent to the ground, I ended up having to also cradle them as they fell down to prevent neck/head injury (no mats in the Dojo - probably because nobody ever grapples/throws). :eek:

I asked the instructor how often they did grappling training, and he answered "We don't really do much of that here." Alright... you guys don't believe in grappling... that's fine. But at least learn how to counter a grapple! It's the same when I hear people tell me that they don't believe in groin strikes (because they think it's a "dog" move) -- okay fine, you don't have to use these techniques, but you really ought to learn how to protect yourself from these kinds of attacks!

Oh, then it came time to spar with the instructor. He said to me, "Watch this, I'll show you something cool," and the threw a punch toward my head which I blocked, followed immediately by a sweeping kick to my front leg, so I instantly lifted my leg to avoid the sweep. That was it. The instructor then said, "Good! Good! You managed to avoid that!" He then showed me an alternative counter to that attack, which involved dropping back into a Renoji-Dachi, then coming forward into a Zenkutsu-Dachi with a counter punch. I personally just simultaneously blocked the punch and lifted my front leg into Crane Stance... if I wanted to launch a counterstrike, I could easily throw a Maegeri from that stance, or step into his position into a Zenkutsu-dachi etc. *shrugs* His technique works too, so I'm not faulting it per se... but IMO if my technique ain't broke, I don't see the need to change it. :o (nor should he change his technique to mimic mine if it's working for him - as I always say, the best technique is the one that works for that individual ;)).

Bartrim

16th April 2013, 11:52 AM

Went to a nice big Italian Wedding on Sunday Night in Sydney and the floor show entertainment during the meal was a Brazilian dance/Capoeira show. So some guys play some drums some girls wearing very little clothing (seriously I think my Dad needed blood pressure tablets after this show:p) did some dancing then the capoeira team started showing their moves. Then one guy searches for an audience member to join in and by coincidence he picked... me! At first I was real nervous and didn't want to do it. Then I got coaxed up onto the dance floor. After getting me to do several pushups and stretches to warm up he slowly got me to do the ginga movement (I think that's what it's called, the rocking back and forth, switching legs thing). Once I built up some speed doing that he thought he would have some fun by adding some kicks in. Thank God I have 3.5 years practice so I didn't look like a total moron. It was quite fun and because I don't advertise my martial arts training so I surprised both the Capoeira guy and a lot of wedding guests with my ability. So after a couple of various turning kicks and a crescent kick (which I performed at head height) my grand finale was a cartwheel. Even though we don't train to do cart wheels in class I have had one brown belt teach me cartwheels before and after class a couple of times for fun. So I got quite the round of applause when I pulled it off.

I just thought it was funny coincidence that with all the guests at this wedding I got picked to do the martial arts demonstration. I even asked my cousin (the bride) if she told them to pick me and she said no, it was all coincidence.:)

GoktimusPrime

20th April 2013, 11:32 PM

I've got my very first grading coming up in about 5 weeks' time... I'm already starting to feel nervous! A few days ago I was talking to another bloke who's a 3rd Dan in Goju Karate, and he was complaining to me about how a lot of guys get to Black Belt and think that they're "all that," but fail to appreciate that Black Belt is the Beginner's level and that everything before then is just preliminary preparation. I then said that the problem and reason for why that happens is because there's just so many belts/levels before then, that it inevitably builds up this massive sense of accomplishment - so by time you get to Black Belt it feels like you've accomplished so much only to be smacked in the face by the reality that you're still a novice! This wouldn't be so bad if there were just less (a lot less) grades/belts before black belt -- like in Japan where there are only 2 belts before black (white and brown). Or better yet, just get rid of the whole belt/grading system altogether and get back to what Karate was originally like prior to the 20th Century!! :rolleyes: I'm only doing my _first_ grading as a white belt, and I'm already feeling the excitement/anticipation of getting my first coloured belt! I know I shouldn't, but I do! When I was driving home from training, I was thinking about how I was feeling, and there was one line from "The Incredibles" that sums it all up so well...

"They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity..." - Bob Parr

Then there's the money. I haven't even bought a Gi yet, and they won't let me grade without one (seriously... why? :confused:) - that's $45. Then it's $40 for the grading (which I'm guessing still has to be paid regardless of pass/fail - and Sensei is a notoriously hard marker), and then $10 for the belt if I pass. So I'm looking at $95 between now and grading, and that's not even including the $10/class lessons in between ... I go once a week, so that's an additional $50... so by the time of grading, I will have spent $145! :eek: :eek:

Alright, ranting aside, does anyone have any tips/advice they'd like to offer for first time grading? :o

Bartrim

21st April 2013, 01:47 PM

Alright, ranting aside, does anyone have any tips/advice they'd like to offer for first time grading? :o

Relax. That is the most important thing. Also talk to your Sensei and see if there is anything in particular you need to focus on for the grading. I'm assuming the grading will be more gruelling then a regular lesson. If that's the case I would suggest do some extra cardio work. As well as my classes I attend I also do 100 push ups and sit ups every night and I run 3 klms twice a week. Leading up to grading I increase that to 300 push ups and sit ups and run 5 klms twice a week. I find that is plenty of cardio work which doesn't take too much time. The push ups and sit ups take about 15 minutes and the running takes about 18-20 minutes.

GoktimusPrime

22nd April 2013, 09:07 AM

I've been told that it's the basic strikes, blocks and stances/movements. No kata. I might ask another instructor if he can do a trial grading with me before the date.

Sinnertwin

22nd April 2013, 10:19 PM

I've been told that it's the basic strikes, blocks and stances/movements. No kata. I might ask another instructor if he can do a trial grading with me before the date.

Sounds like you've aleady got it in the bag.

GoktimusPrime

23rd April 2013, 12:44 AM

Sounds like you've aleady got it in the bag.
I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch. The instructor who does the gradings is a notoriously hard marker, and while the stuff I'm learning is incredibly basic, some of it is quite different from what I'm used to and Sensei's like uber strict on everything being exactly the way he wants it to look like (form over function :rolleyes:).

Some things I'm still getting used to include:
+ The Sanchin ("Three Battles") stance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpEVNUIkVx8); we don't have this stance in Tai Chi or even most other forms of Kung Fu (especially Northern Kung Fu). This stance originates from Southern Fujian Kung Fu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvw9-SIurKE) (which is where Karate is descendant from) and is principally used in Fujian styles; none of which I'm terribly familiar with! I've been finding this stance the most difficult to master -- but last week I was talking this Karateka, black belt 3rd dan... I showed him my Sanchin stance and he told me it was 'perfect.' :) Last Saturday's class was the first time I didn't get corrected on my Sanchin stance!
+ Front kick (maegeri) -- as strange as it sounds, I'm having some issues with this, and I think it comes down to the fact that the Karate front kick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lRTKA3vIFA) has some subtle differences to the Tai Chi/Kung Fu front kick ([url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-kEZJsk5L0), but also we've never formally done any bag work* in class. In Karate the front kick turns off the ball of the foot of the supporting leg and impacts with the ball of the foot of the kicking leg; in Tai Chi/Kung Fu it's the heels (in Tai Chi the front kick is also called the "heel stomping kick"). Both methods of kicking have their advantages, but it'd be easier for me to learn the Karate version if I were able to actually kick something!
+ Fist's nest (i.e. where the non-attacking fist rests on the body). In Nothern Kung Fu/Tai Chi the fist's nest is typically held at the hips, whereas in Southern Kung Fu (http://pantherwingchun.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/bl1.jpg) and Karate (http://www.youthink.com/images_quiz/2009/02/06/full_782293576.jpg) it's typically held at the chest level. So it's something new I gotta get used to, but honestly I don't put all that much thought into it because fist's nest is something that's more important to raw beginners. You don't use it in a real fight, but it's purpose is as a visual aide for beginning students to clearly see how their waists are positioned. So it's a useful technique for novice students, but once you move beyond that noob stage it becomes rather superfluous... because beyond novice level, you're taught to use both (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Hanashiro_Chomo.jpg/200px-Hanashiro_Chomo.jpg) hands (http://img.localsmile.com.au/image/image/2581/w265q80.jpg) at (http://www.karateblogger.com/stari/images/karate_30.jpg) the (http://www.beginnerstaichi.com/images/tai-chi-single-whip-application.jpg) same (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/4181057089_2b11bc8abd.jpg) time (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vvT0d2mKT-M/0.jpg), which is what I'm used to doing. It seems like such a minor point, but it's gonna be something that Sensei's gonna nitpick on, so I gotta make sure I'm doing it right.

...and that's what I prefer about Thursday lessons which is taught by a Sempai over the Saturday lessons taught by Sensei. Sempai might not be as highly qualified as Sensei, but I prefer him as a teacher because for me he can see that a lot of these basics are quite simple for me, and he's willing to show me more advanced techniques -- he lets me try more advanced katas and even lets me spar (which ungraded students aren't meant to do). He didn't do all this in the first lesson, but after getting to know me he can tell that I would benefit more from lessons if he shows me and lets me try more advanced techniques.

My Chen Tai Chi teacher wouldn't bore a new student with prior martial arts experience by teaching him from the very beginning. He would at first, just to gauge when their level is like, but once he got to know them, he would just let them skip past the basics -- sometimes skip right past certain forms and up to whatever level best suited the student. He saw no point in teaching someone how to do stances all over again, even if some of our stances and basics differed from what that student had done, he just let the student learn the new way as he went along, and if a student needed attention with a particular basic technique, then he'd focus on that. For example, do I really need to continually practice Zenkutsudachi (http://www.theshotokanway.com/images/images4/images5/Stance%20-%20Zenkutsu%202.JPG) (forward stance)? There's a very similar stance in Tai Chi called the Bow Stance (http://blog-imgs-45.fc2.com/n/i/h/nihaonihao/2011060217503989c.jpg). The Neko-ashi dachi (http://www.jinbukai.org/utkc/pictures/Sensei_Neko_Ashi_Dachi.jpg) (Cat Stance) is quite similar to Tai Chi's Empty Stance (http://www.taichi-taiji.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/250.jpg). As I said, the only stance that I've experienced difficulty with was the Sanchin stance (http://www.ikigaiway.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/sanchin-dachi.gif), simply because we don't use it in Tai Chi (whereas a person with experience in say Fujian Kung Fu or another style of Karate would find it quite easy).

The Sensei's class is primarily teacher-centred. The only student attention you get is if you stuff something up. :( The Sempai's class is far more student-centred, and student-centred learning is more effective than teacher-centred learning. Granted the Sensei's classes are much larger - but that's another reason why I like Sempai's classes... fewer students, greater individual attention from the teacher. :)

-------------------------------------------------------------
*I did get to kick a shield once in one of Sempai's lessons (it was before the class had formally started) - he was holding the shield and asked us to do different kinds of kicks. It was funny... the graded students went first, and just gently tapped the shield with their kicks. Then it was my turn and the hall just echoed with "WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!" and I could see Sempai having to work to absorb the impact of my kicks. None of the other students were able to issue any power in their kicks. Little wonder if they hardly ever (never?) do bag/padwork. :(

GoktimusPrime

25th April 2013, 06:29 PM

Saw this tragic story (http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20130425/18239481) about a 9 year old boy who was attacked in the groin by a bully and has consequently lost one of his testicles. :( If you pause the video at 1:23 there's a copy of the medical report in English. Basically after being attacked, the victim was admitted to hospital and cleared to go home, but later at home he noticed that one of his testicles was swollen and turned black... after going back to hospital, the doctor declared that the tissue inside had already died and they had to surgically remove it. Small consolation is that the remaining testicle is fine and he ought to be able to reproduce with that in the future, but the child continues to suffer psychological damage and nightmares which will may very well take much longer to heal than his physical injuries. :( The technique that the bully used where he grabbed the boy's testicle and twisted it is something that is taught in several martial arts; mimicking a martial arts technique known as "Monkey steals the Peach" (http://www.monkeystealsthepeach.com/monkey_steals_the_peach.jpg) (from the story of Saiyuuki (Monkey Magic) where Son Gokuu (Monkey) steals the Peach of Immortality from the Heavenly Garden). I think it's a solemn reminder as to just how dangerous groin attacks can be - even if you walk away thinking that you're alright. As with a lot of internal damage, symptoms may crop up long after the initial strike.

Disclaimer: I'm in NO way validating/condoning the bully's attack in this story, nor am I attempting to place the victim under any scrutiny here. IMO the attack was a completely abhorrent and deplorable act, and I hope that the attacker will be suitably dealt with. The victim is only 9 years old and was completely set up by a person he considered his friend (and thus implicitly trusted). I'm only referring to this story to demonstrate what the consequences of a groin attack can be.

>>>Now comes my typical rant about groin-defence; long time readers of this thread may choose to tune out now<<< :p

As most of you know, I've witnessed far too many martial arts practitioners who just don't adequately protect the groin, especially people who train for competition fights. And I've encountered a lot of people who steadfastly believe that they don't need to defend their groins - that it's a "dog" move, that they would never do it, and that anyone who does it is scum. Sure, they're scum... but they're scum who may very well cause permanent damage to your doo-dads! I can totally understand people who have personal objections to using groin attacks... okay, that's fine. But what I don't understand is people who object to learning how to defend themselves from a groin attack! I personally don't carry a knife around to attack people with, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't learn how to defend myself against a knife attack!

I still cannot believe the number of martial artists I've come across who, when I try to discuss groin defence with them, actually get really angry. I've had people scream at me, verbally abuse me and just walk away refusing to train with me if I so much as suggest incorporating groin attacks/defence. It's as if it's some kind of massive taboo for them to even think about it. I get that it's incredibly unpleasant... but what part of being assaulted is pleasant anyway? Surely self defence is about protecting ourselves from horrible nasty people who would consider doing horrible nasty things to us. Some people seem to have a mindset that they only need to defend themselves from a noble attacker... but noble people don't attack others! :rolleyes:

GoktimusPrime

26th April 2013, 08:42 AM

Woman uses Brazilian Juujutsu triangle choke to defend herself from rapist (http://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/female-us-navy-sailor-puts-rapist-to-sleep-with-triangle-choke-in-dubai/) :)

Bartrim

26th April 2013, 09:50 AM

Woman uses Brazilian Juujutsu triangle choke to defend herself from rapist (http://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/female-us-navy-sailor-puts-rapist-to-sleep-with-triangle-choke-in-dubai/) :)

Ha! Awesome.

On the whole groin attack thing. At my last grading we had to partner and go through self defence. We have six basic attacks that we drill. Because it was an advanced grading (brown belts and up) they made us come up with something on our own instead of doing the normal drill. The first attack is basically a standard haymaker. When it was my turn to demonstrate, my partner went to throw the punch and I simulated (ie: didn't actually make contact) a snap kick to the groin. Our Kyoshi and founder of our schools stopped us and told everyone that it was the best self defence technique because it was the most simple and effective.:)

GoktimusPrime

3rd May 2013, 09:53 AM

Sparred last night with the second highest ranking student in the class (we don't pick our partners - they get assigned to us). Good range fighting. Excellent groin defence and solid guard overall. He made it more challenging for me to close the distance - I coudn't just walk into his range like I did with previous opponents, but I found it was pretty easy to spring/hop into range to quickly close the gap. Once I got in close, he would flounder and whenever I commenced a takedown, my opponent was utterly incapable to countering (or even breakfalling). I was quite slow/gentle with my takedowns, I would move in and engage him with furious speed, but as soon as I felt that he'd lost his balance and had started falling, I slowed down to "Tai Chi practice" speed and let him gently fall down - so he was never in any danger of being injured (since we don't ever use mats and he's just falling on solid floor). Whenever he fell down he'd just lie on his back splayed out like he's having a nap, so I'd gently put my knee on his chest and throw punches toward his head (stopping just a few cm short of contact) before helping him get up. My opponent seemed quite competent at defending himself from someone who's going to box at him from a distance, but not against an up close attack (and seemed utterly defenceless against grappling).

I only go to Karate once a week, but the instructor encouraged me to come along to this Sat's class as apparently there's some tournament thing happening with people from around Australia and Japan coming. I was just gonna pop in for a minute to purchase my Gi, but I'm considering staying for the lesson if it's gonna be something special.

sifun

3rd May 2013, 10:24 AM

sifun

3rd May 2013, 10:26 AM

how come you don't spar with strikes to the head?

GoktimusPrime

3rd May 2013, 08:25 PM

how come you don't spar with strikes to the head?
Against the rules of the Dojo (and as a result some of the students have predictably incredibly poor head defence). :( My guess is that they don't want to risk head injuries as that can cause traumatic brain injury/concussion etc. All martial arts schools/teachers have a legal duty of care over their students. But I honestly think it's an unnecessary precaution (that's also counter-intuitive to self defence training). At sparring we're already told to basically make light contact, because nobody wears any protective gear (other than hand guards that pad the knuckles, that's it). So basically all hits land with the force of someone tipping you in the schoolyard. And that's fine... so I really don't see the need of being extra cautious in totally disallowing head strikes. Groin strikes are allowed, and as a result everyone at this school has excellent groin defence! If they allowed head strikes I reckon students would quickly learn to improve defending their heads too! (funny that ;)).

Quite frankly, as much as I try not to strike the head, I do get a few head shots in (with minimal opposition). I'm not intentionally defying the rules, but the fact of the matter is that when you're sparring/fighting you're mostly moving automatically and reflexively. If I see an opening, I'm just going to take it. If my opponent keeps leaving a part of their body exposed - groin, head, whatever - I'm going to attack it. I consciously try not to, which means I'm able to suppress most of my head strikes, but every now and then a hit is going to get in. Usually when my opponent attacks me harder and faster and I have to react more quickly - there's no time to think and I just attack whatever's open. Thankfully for my opponent's I'm quite used to 'soft contact' sparring, so I'm not hitting with any real force. The fact that we all wear padded gloves makes it even softer. :p

I suppose the good thing is that none of my opponents have ever cried foul when I have hit them in the head... unlike some other sparring partners I've had in the past who've been less the courteous when I've hit them in the groin. ;) I guess it's because even a 'gentle' hit to the groin can still hurt a lot! As Eddie Murphy once said - you can just graze a man in the nads and it'd still take him down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QEptY3-KM). (link not suitable for kids)

GoktimusPrime

5th May 2013, 10:16 AM

So I went to training yesterday - first time I decided to do a second class in the same week. Finally bought a Gi (goodbye $45 :(). It was a special tournament class, but as an ungraded student I was only allowed to do the Kata competition, where they pair you with another student and you both do kata and they declare one person a winner. :eek: I lost.

This may sound like a case of sour grapes, but I'm really not fond of making people 'compete' against each other with Kata. The reason for this is because I just don't see the educational benefit of it. As you all know I've never been a fan of competition martial arts in general -- in traditional martial arts the only person you should be competing with is yourself, striving for self improvement and achieving your personal best. But I suppose some might argue that making a competition out of it might introduce an element of 'fun' and some students might thrive on the competition element (especially boys). So I can see how it might suit that personality type -- that's fine. But the thing that bothers me about it is that, for the 'losing' student, there's NO constructive feedback as to why they lost!

When it comes to learning things, there's nothing wrong with making mistakes - the important thing is that we _learn_ from our mistakes. If my kata is wrong, then tell me what I did wrong! There's no explicit correction of mistakes. Also, Sensei claims that the Kihon Kata only has one stance - Zenkutsudachi... but honestly it has more. Namely the transitional stances... I don't know what they're called (as nobody seems to even view them as stances or positions in their own right), but one is like a highly contracted Nekoashidachi (essentially a Tiger Riding Stance (http://www.masterkeyver.com/resources/Stances_-_Photo_Display/Stance%20-%20Beom%20Seogi%20-%20Tiger%20Stance.JPG.opt266x319o0,0s266x319.JPG)) , and the other is a contracted Jade Ring Stance (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m186/lavenderangel_2006/yuhuanma-sm.jpg) (only that the rear knee is aligned with the front leg's knee/calf instead of stepping across it; I don't know the name for this variation of the Jade Ring Stance) -- both of these stances are important in turning during the form... yet there's little focus on how to do it and also which direction to turn during the form. :rolleyes: The teaching of the kata seems to focused on just the 'end result' of stepping in Zenkutsudachi, but glazing over how to actually get there in the first place.

Teaching isn't just about "Here's the right way to do it," but importantly, "Here's how it's done correctly." I don't mind being told that I've made a mistake... but I'd also like to be properly corrected and instructed on how to improve on my mistake. Isn't that what we're paying money to instructors for? If they want me to just figure it out on my own... I can do that at home and save myself the money. :o

Bartrim

6th May 2013, 10:35 AM

GoktimusPrime

6th May 2013, 04:47 PM

I only know this from studying to become an accreditated instructor but there are severe legal raminifications if anyone suffers a head injury in a Martial Arts School. I disagree with it as I prefer head shots and if I am alone with my Sensei he allows me to put on headgear and we spar with head shots. The same goes for groin shots. The protective equipment worn does not 100% prevent injury so head and groin shots are not allowed. It is that bad now that when knife defence is practiced a dojo is not covered legally if the students to not wear eye protection.
Yeah but there are still ways around it like getting the attacker to apply "light contact" attacks, or just pulling their strikes a few cm from contact (do the latter with inexperienced students, and allow more experienced students to do the former). Or just mix up junior and senior students together more often in training -- the more experience senior students will know how to safely execute a simulated head or groin strike without causing serious injury, and they also know how to defend themselves from incoming strikes from the inexperienced junior student. The risk I think comes more from when you put two inexperienced students together, neither possessing the skill/experience to execute a head or groin shot in practice safely. Or heck, just give the attacker a pair of feather dusters and ask them to use those to attack you. You can still feel the feather dusters touching you, but they're too soft to injure you.

Have you asked for feedback Gok? From what I've seen in big tournaments there usually isn't time on the spot to explain to the loser what went wrong but if you asked an instructor/judge later they will be more then happy to explain.
There were a lot of instructors at the Dojo that day, but they were all busy with the tournaments (which only graded students could participate in) and the ungraded students were made to do basics. There were 3-4 instructors who watched us when we did the Kata competition to judge, surely at least one of them could've come along to the sideline and had a quiet chat with the 'losing' student to give them constructive feedback. The instructor in charge is someone I've trained with before, and he hardly ever gives constructive feedback in his classes. Another instructor that I sometimes train with whom I find far more constructive was also there, so I'll ask him if he can give me any feedback when I see him next (if he remembers my performance :p).

I think you have to let go of your love of traditional martial arts too. The rise in popularity in MMA has caused a rather quick evolution in martial arts and society has changed so much that there is no real practical need for traditional martial arts.
I see traditional martial arts as still being useful for civilian self defence in today's society. You're right in that it's no longer useful for its original purpose (combat), and it's definitely not suited for modern competition fighting either.

This again goes back to what I've learnt doing my accreditation. Using traditional martial arts in self defence can often leave you on the wrong side of the law. We did numourous case studies where the mugger took the victim to court because of the harm done to them because the victim was a martial artist. There is a fine line between self defence and assault. That line becomes even finer when you are a practicing martial artist and can get quite blurred easily for a judge. Tha is why most schools that teach self defence will tell you physical defence is the last resort! Traditonal Martial Arts are great but they are just not practical in todays world and I seriously think you need to understand that.
I've never come across any martial arts school that didn't teach physical defence as a last resort; traditional, modern or otherwise.

In cases where people have abused their martial arts training in self defence, I wouldn't say that the problem lies in Traditional martial arts, but rather in people who didn't know how to use the techniques appropriately. And that may very well come down to the teaching/learning aspect; and when you're teaching martial arts for self defence one ought to be mindful to remind students that the law allows for the reasonable use of force in self defence. But I think any kind of martial arts training can be abused in self defence -- traditional or otherwise.

As you know one of my pet peeves about martial arts schools (including traditional ones) are those who fail to be more selective in who they teach. I'm a firm believer that people with thuggish tendencies should not be trained in any kind of martial arts or fighting sport; that martial arts teachers/schools have a moral responsibility to either exclude these students, or modify their teaching of that student (so that the student is unable to use any techiques learnt from the school to harm someone else); e.g. exclusively teach passive/defensive techniques.

IMO a good martial arts instructor aims to teach his/her students to defend themselves from violent thugs but without becoming violent thugs themselves. But in order to become proficient at that, you need to understand how violent thugs attack ("Know the enemy as you know yourself and you shall not fear the results of a hundred battles" - Sun Tzu, The Art of War). One thing I see with some people who are "too defensive" in their training (i.e. never learn how to strike) is that when they train/spar with each other, they're defending themselves from incredibly weak and unrealistic attacks. Just look at this Aikido demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fftNELuJ9-w#t=41s) -- the attacks are far too "nice." There is that element of what 5FDP calls 'over compliance' from the attacker which makes it unrealistically too easy for the defender to counter. And I don't just mean to pick on Aikido, a lot of martial arts schools do this, including Tai Chi (many Tai Chi practitioners start with the attacker and defender already in contact, so there's no real learning of how to bridge that initial gap).

-----------------------------

Also... got any tips on how to tie up an Obi? Any good web sites with good illustrations or decent videos you can recommend? :)

Raptormesh

6th May 2013, 09:21 PM

GoktimusPrime

6th May 2013, 11:52 PM

Managed to grade 5th kyu in Iai last week. Not happy that I have to cut down my training this semester to once a week with my classes clashing and therefore not training as hard as I could have. Doing strikes at home isn't cutting it.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg :p

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Iai is predominantly Kata training, isn't it? (i.e. you don't do forms of sparring/fighting with bokken/bokuto or shinai). The beauty of learning Kata is that you can continue practising them at any time. Although admittedly it's really not as effective as in a class where people can correct or refine your techniques... and it's also just more fun when practising with someone else. :) Iai also has two-person Kata, right? That would be jolly hard to do on your own. At least you're still training once a week - that's not as bad as completely quitting. :o

Raptormesh

7th May 2013, 11:45 AM

Heh, that wasn't entirely intentional...obviously :P

Yup it's mostly Kata based. However our sensei do get us to practice Kendo Katas with the bokuto to get a sense of distance, which is very useful to make our Katas "believable". Self practice works if you're still learning the steps, but is quite hard to develop the metsuke or zanshin required without external observation. Like my sempai said, it's pretty obvious if you're not taking it seriously or lack training as you'll just be dancing with a sword.

There are paired Katas as well, but that's pretty advanced stuff called koryu where it becomes more practical(for 15th century Japan at least) using shinken so mistakes can be a danger.

Myself, I got into Iai to discipline my mind, and to focus.

Bartrim

7th May 2013, 12:29 PM

I have to do a bo staff kata at my next grading. I've tried it a few times and I am hell unco:o

GoktimusPrime

7th May 2013, 02:12 PM

I massively suck at weapons too. Admittedly it's something that doesn't personally interest me. :o

There are paired Katas as well, but that's pretty advanced stuff called koryu where it becomes more practical(for 15th century Japan at least) using shinken so mistakes can be a danger.

Myself, I got into Iai to discipline my mind, and to focus.
Fair enough. And I can appreciate you wanting to perfect your techniques and form too; even if weapon arts aren't something one learns for self defence, if you're gonna learn it you might as well do it right! :) A former colleague of mine is one of the top ranking Kendoka in NSW and he also practises Iai.

Do you guys ever do demonstrations at Medieval/Renaissance Fairs? I'd love to see that -- I find that they're all too often very Euro-centric, and it'd be nice if they included elements of other cultures from that same historical period. Though technically the modern Gi and certainly your belts wouldn't be historically accurate... but ignorance may be on your side. ;) Cos I know if you go to these events with a European persona, other people will ruthlessly nitpick everything! (e.g. "Look at that person in Elizabethan gown with a Byzantine belt! Har!!") ... oh, and I've been told that in Western European martial arts, a white belt means you're a Knight, so you'd^I'd be likely to get challenged if I walked around one of those in my Gi! :D :p

Raptormesh

7th May 2013, 06:12 PM

Do you guys ever do demonstrations at Medieval/Renaissance Fairs? I'd love to see that -- I find that they're all too often very Euro-centric, and it'd be nice if they included elements of other cultures from that same historical period. Though technically the modern Gi and certainly your belts wouldn't be historically accurate... but ignorance may be on your side. ;) Cos I know if you go to these events with a European persona, other people will ruthlessly nitpick everything! (e.g. "Look at that person in Elizabethan gown with a Byzantine belt! Har!!") ... oh, and I've been told that in Western European martial arts, a white belt means you're a Knight, so you'd^I'd be likely to get challenged if I walked around one of those in my Gi! :D :p

Haha, no I don't imagine we ever demo'd at those fairs but we do demo at Japanese Festivals if there are requests here in VIC. Would be a bit weird trolling those fairs in our gear to be honest :D.

Even when we do demo it's usually insanely quiet and subdued unlike other martial arts. My sensei and sempais even point out if I make a sound drawing or sheathing my iaito. My dojo has a huge complement of Kendokas and people training naginata as well. Most of the senseis for iai and naginata also train in Kendo and I plan to as well. Well, either that or Jodo.

GoktimusPrime

7th May 2013, 11:55 PM

Haha, no I don't imagine we ever demo'd at those fairs but we do demo at Japanese Festivals if there are requests here in VIC. Would be a bit weird trolling those fairs in our gear to be honest :D.
Far from it, I think you'll find that anyone with a non-European persona at a Medieval/Renaissance recreational event is more likely to draw a lot of positive attention as they're just so rare and thus seen as highly exotic! :)

Even when we do demo it's usually insanely quiet and subdued unlike other martial arts.
A lot of martial arts don't do any shouting. In Tai Chi we're never taught to shout -- Tai Chi forms and drills are practised with an air of serenity. But having said that, I do find that even Tai Chi fighters will end up making noises during actual fight practice (e.g. fight drills, sparring etc.) - but it's more like a 'subdued tennis grunt.' :p

GoktimusPrime

10th May 2013, 03:46 PM

Went to training for the very first time in a Karate Gi! (though not the first time I've trained in a Gi, I did wear a Gi when I did Aikido -- but I've totally forgotten how to tie an Obi! :p)

The class I went to had a 50:50 ratio of adult and kid students. One of the youngins was a yellow belt who was continually not paying attention to Sensei and talking with another young orange belt. It was incredibly distracting. On top of that, he kept turning around to a young white belt and taunting him. Sensei wasn't doing anything to pull him in line because he would only muck up when Sensei's back was turned and he was constantly whispering and making silly gestures so as not to get noticed by Sensei. I could see that the young white belt wasn't enjoying being taunted by the yellow belt, and I was finding it a distraction. So I looked at the yellow belt and gestured for him to face the front. He gave me an unhappy look but complied. Then afterwards he started mucking around again, and I again gave him another gesture to turn around. He then gave me this incredibly dirty look... I maintained my gaze and gestured for him to turn around again. Then he got really sullen, but complied. And for the rest of the lesson was pretty much sulking in silence. I could see the young white belt smiling - relieved that the yellow belt was now leaving him alone. :) I later heard him whispering to the young orange belt, and I think he referred to me as a 'smart (bum)'. Was he upset that a 'lower ranking' white belt had reprimanded him? Wateva... he was giving a young white belt a hard time, and I got him to stop it in a discreet manner. Nobody else saw me gesturing to him except for the white belt that he was picking on - i.e. anyone who wasn't involved didn't see it. :rolleyes:

On a more positive note, Sensei told me what I did wrong with the Kata on Saturday and we went through the whole thing and corrected me on what I was doing wrong. :D That was really useful.

I also did something incredibly stupid. I initially intended to just go straight to training and back home, but on the way back I remembered that we were out of milk. So I stopped by a supermarket to get some -- still wearing my full Gi (cos I hadn't brought a change of clothes like everyone else does!). Felt like a complete goose. :rolleyes: I also bumped into a former sempai from GKR... extra embarrassment. :p She was still wearing her Gi pants, but at least had the common sense to change her top.

<facepalm.self> http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/th_facepalm_primeratchet.jpg

GoktimusPrime

25th May 2013, 10:31 PM

Had my first grading today. As you all know, I've never been a fan of the coloured belt grading system; it's always seemed like a massive WOFTAM to me. But now having experienced a grading first hand, I gotta say...

...sometimes I hate being proven right. :(

Anyway, I shan't bore you all to death again with yet another rantage about martial arts grades other than it's just all form over function. :rolleyes:

-------------------------
P.S.: if anyone's curious, yes I passed. I think. I was 1.5 marks off a perfect score, so I didn't qualify for a yellow belt but instead got a red little sliver of ribbon tip for my white belt. $40 well spent. :rolleyes:

Sinnertwin

25th May 2013, 10:50 PM

GP, How often does your dojo conduct gradings?

GoktimusPrime

26th May 2013, 01:49 AM

Not entirely sure -- might ask that next lesson. I'm guessing once every couple of months. The frequency itself doesn't bother me so much as the cost. $40 just for the privilege of taking the test - and an additional $10 for the lesson itself. So today I spent $50 on a single Karate lesson. That's only a few dollars less than what I paid for MP Lambor. :( Wouldn't be so bad if I walked away with some kickass ninja skillz... but instead I walked away feeling more jaded than when I walked in. The only minor consolation is that I saved myself $10 because I didn't qualify for a yellow belt. But honestly, it's a false victory because when I try to go for my yellow belt again, I'll have to spend another freaking $40 for my next grading. GRAAAAARGH!

Whatever... some of the guys I saw who got yellow belts can hardly even stand or punch straight. I've sparred w/ two orange belts (one w/ a green tip) at this school, both times I was able to repeatedly and consistently put them on the floor. At no times were they ever to put me on the floor or even get me off balance. Now that I've graded I hope that they'll let me do more sparring (and hopefully with even higher grades beyond orange belts ;)).

The teaching methodology at this Dojo seems based on dogmatic rote learning and memorisation rather than higher order thinking and learning (my old Chen Tai Chi school was certainly more geared toward higher order learning). For those who may not know, the modern way of looking at learning objectives is through a classification system called Bloom's Taxonomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom's_Taxonomy), and it works like this...

From lowest to highest order of learning:
+ Knowledge: The ability to remember and recall, but without necessarily fully understanding what it is you've remembered. <---the bulk of the Karate training I've witnessed/experienced so far appears to be happening at this lowest level. :(
+ Comprehension: Demonstrating understanding of what you have learned. Describing, interpreting, extrapolating etc.
+ Application: Using the acquired knowledge. The ability to solve problems in new situations by applying acquired knowledge in a different ways.
+ Analysis: Breaking information into parts and examining them by making inferences and seeking evidence to support ideas.
+ Evaluation: Making judgments about the validity or quality of techniques based on a set of criteria and internal evidence.
+ Synthesis (Creation): Using creativity and originality to combine information to form something unique/new.

Sinnertwin

26th May 2013, 09:48 AM

I was curious as to how often they would grade students despite their difference in rank within the same dojo. Do black belts get graded as often as say a white or yellow belt? Is it 3 ribbons/tip on your belt and 3 more $40 gradings before you achieve the next colour?

GoktimusPrime

26th May 2013, 04:25 PM

I was curious as to how often they would grade students despite their difference in rank within the same dojo. Do black belts get graded as often as say a white or yellow belt?
I would assume so considering that black belt 1st dan (shodan) = beginner level. So one would have to go for gradings to achieve anything above beginner's level (2nd dan, 3rd dan etc.). Having said that, there are very few black belts. I find Karate schools to be quite "bottom heavy" where white belts far outnumber black belts. I find that schools that don't have gradings are more "top heavy" where the more experienced and senior students outnumber beginners. Bottom heavy schools indicate a higher rate of enrolment but lower rate of student retention (i.e. higher rates of students dropping out before reaching higher levels), whereas top heavy schools reflect the opposite.

Is it 3 ribbons/tip on your belt and 3 more $40 gradings before you achieve the next colour?
Primus I hope not. I'd like to actually stick with this style and hopefully reach black belt some day... but if they're gonna stuff me around with multiple ribbons between belts then that's really gonna test my already highly jaded patience with gradings and belts. :/

GoktimusPrime

6th June 2013, 04:23 PM

Hurt my hand in school sport today. Looks like I'll just have to spar with one hand tonight. ;) :D

GoktimusPrime

21st June 2013, 11:13 PM

Saw a new guy come to the Dojo last night. He's an ungraded white belt, but he told me that he did Kyokushinkai Karate a long time ago where he was on the "third belt." He's bigger, stronger, faster and has impressively good lightning reflexes! He's also not into being an "over compliant" partner either. i.e. when he grabs you, it's a super tight vice-like grip! I can't wait to spar with this guy! :D

Bartrim

12th July 2013, 11:30 AM

I hate how our classes run like the school year. I hate having a break for so long. I have already started getting myself ready for my full brown belt grading in September.

Bartrim

12th July 2013, 12:11 PM

Still coming to terms with Anderson Silva losing. Kinda like being told that Santa doesn't exist :p That being said Weidman did fight smart and Silva was maybe a fraction too arrogant.

sifun

12th July 2013, 04:05 PM

he got tagged.

He'll be hungry for that belt again

Bartrim

12th July 2013, 04:34 PM

he got tagged.

He'll be hungry for that belt again

If he threw a counterstrike every time Weidman missed the fight would of been over in the 1st round.

He did get tagged but Weidman fought smart. Everytime Silva does his Ali, matrix dodging no one has ever double up on the punches. Most MMA fighters always go left, right, left. Weidman went right, right, left making Silva zig when he should of zagged. Hopefully he is hungry in the rematch. If he really wants to I think he can beat Weidman in the 1st.

GoktimusPrime

13th July 2013, 09:33 AM

I hate how our classes run like the school year. I hate having a break for so long. I have already started getting myself ready for my full brown belt grading in September.
Yeah, the Yang Tai Chi School that I went to was like that too... even though NONE of the students were kids (I was considered the "baby" in the class; most others had adult children or were grandparents).

There are a few things about my Karate school I'm not liking, but most of which I'm not willing to discuss online. (-_-) But one thing I will say is that there's some tournament coming up next month, and so Sensei's classes have suddenly become tournament focused which is - even to his admission - completely counter intuitive to actual Karate training. For example, he'd explain a technique and say, something like, "In proper Karate you'd kick the groin here, but since we're training for tournament, we won't practice it. Only Maegeri (front kick)." :confused: It's not even like, "For those of you who are training for tournament, use a Maegeri, but if you're not then it would be a Kingeri (groin kick)." He's essentially assumed that we're all training for tournament, even though when I joined up I explicitly told him that I have NO interest in competition fighting. (-_-)

Also... what's your view on sparring with women? At my current Dojo the Sensei's really old fashioned and believes on taking it easy on the girls. First time I sparred with a girl I just kept in range but was totally defensive. I made NO attacks, only blocked all her attacks and did the occasional leg trap, but I didn't strike her or throw her etc. But I also stayed in range, not allowing her to get distance away from me. Sensei wasn't happy with that. One of the Sempais later told me that when sparring with girls, we should just back away and pretty much let them attack us. :eek: Uummm... does this just feel really counter-intuitive to teaching women's self defence to anyone else? I told Sempai that if any of these girls were to be attacked IRL, the attacker isn't going to be nearly as civil as I was and merely stay in range but NOT attack. Sempai said, "I know," but said that Sensei still doesn't like to see girls being attacked, so he won't allow it. HOW do they expect women to learn to defend themselves from violent thugs if they won't even allow people to attack them in sparring - which is a far more controlled and safe condition than an actual street fight?!? (o_O)

So basically... these women and paying all this money to learn Karate at a school that won't allow them to train under conditions that attempt to even semi-simulate a semi-real attack. They might as well just invest in Pepper Spray and carry it on their person in public. It'd be cheaper and more effective. :rolleyes: And they can just do jogging/running for fitness... it'd improve their ability to flee from an attacker too, since they're obviously NOT being taught to stand and fight. Sensei may think that he's being chivalrous and kind by not allowing women to properly spar, but ultimately I think he's doing them a disservice by not properly teaching them self defence.

Bartrim

13th July 2013, 03:09 PM

The couple of women at our school who spar actually get peeved if we take it too lightly on them.

GoktimusPrime

29th July 2013, 11:46 PM

Holy crap... Hong Kong Airlines flight attendants are being taught Wing Chun Kung Fu to defend themselves from violently behaved passengers from mainland China! :eek:
http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/chinas-air-rage-tribe-emerges-amid-anger-over-travel-delays-20130729-2qtjs.html

It's pretty damn sad when members of the public become so badly behaved that a company has to teach their service staff self defence. :(

GoktimusPrime

30th July 2013, 11:30 PM

CCTV footage of a guy in Russia attempting to steal a girl's mobile phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RyXUoMPb5E

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Martial%20arts/kingeri_zpscce04a4c.jpg

KalEl

31st July 2013, 10:57 PM

Bartrim

20th August 2013, 09:30 AM

This is an actual black belt grading. SMH

http://www.shockmansion.com/2013/08/18/video-did-you-get-your-black-belt-from-k-mart-the-worst-karate-demo-in-the-history-of-karate/

GoktimusPrime

20th August 2013, 09:52 AM

Bartrim

20th August 2013, 10:15 AM

KalEl

21st August 2013, 05:49 PM

It saddens me that McDojos like that are just thriving in today's society, while traditional martial arts schools - the ones that don't even bother with belts, gradings, competitions etc. - are becoming increasingly rare. :( I guess people just want form over substance.

P.S.: Or maybe those people have discovered a secret technique of kicking all the immediate oxygen molecules out of the air in front of their opponents, thus suffocating them. Individual results may vary; may not be effectual against skeptics.

I think labelling that under the term 'mcdojos' is rubbish. What we watched in that video is rubbish in general and the people attending that school are being robbed.

I trained with GKR for 8+ years and they are labelled a "mcdojo" and i would consider GKR and that video on the same level as an insult.
For Example GKR wins National All styles constantly due to a consistent quality of technique.

That being said, i'm not say you are comparing that directly to gkr but i think the use of the term is not called for in that situation.

Plus belts, competition and gradings are the way of the martial arts world now, it does not make the club untraditional or weak etc. They still have plenty of "substance".

GoktimusPrime

21st August 2013, 11:24 PM

It's evolution unfortunately. There is not much of a need for traditional schools anymore. The rise in popularity of sports martial arts over the past 10years has seen the public demand shift more to competition based schools.
Sadly I cannot disagree with you there. IMO losing traditional martial arts is also a cultural loss as well.

I trained with GKR for 8+ years and they are labelled a "mcdojo" and i would consider GKR and that video on the same level as an insult.
For Example GKR wins National All styles constantly due to a consistent quality of technique.

That being said, i'm not say you are comparing that directly to gkr but i think the use of the term is not called for in that situation.
The GKR schools around my area are what I would consider schools of dubious quality. I don't know about your GKR school -- I've never seen it so I can't judge it -- but the ones in _my_ area were incredibly disappointing.

Plus belts, competition and gradings are the way of the martial arts world now, it does not make the club untraditional or weak etc. They still have plenty of "substance".
I find the grading system is counter intuitive to traditional/practical training in two main ways:

1) Unnecessary prolonging of learning.
2) The problem with tests/exams is that some students tend to learn for passing tests rather than for actual learning.
I'm not necessarily saying that schools with belts/gradings lack substance per se, but I'm saying that the belt/grading thing feels like a massive (and costly) distraction from what I perceive as the core function of martial arts -- learning to fight.

KalEl

22nd August 2013, 12:01 AM

what I perceive as the core function of martial arts -- learning to fight.

The fact is (whether fortunate or unfortunate) is that martial arts are not like that in today's world for the average man/women/child.

Problem is these day, 99% of people aren't doing martial arts to learn to 'fight'. Especially your particular definition of it.
Most do it for fitness, confidence, fun, sport and numerous other reasons.

For example I started it for confidence and fitness and learnt to 'fight' as a by-product, but not the goal.

GoktimusPrime

22nd August 2013, 12:27 AM

^Agree.

Bartrim

26th August 2013, 05:46 PM

In a bit of a pickle at the moment. My martial arts school has a few "McDojo" (even though I hate that term) qualities, like basically handing out belts (In 3.5 years I have only seen one student not pass a grading). My sensei is only young and has befriended a group of teenage boys who train with us and they now think they are "above the law" when I instruct. These are a few examples. Just recently another martial arts school from Nowra expanded and opened up down in Ulladulla. We lost a few members to this school and I saw these 3 guys last week. I quizzed them about the new school and they all said it's better. It is a competition based academy that doesn't teach karate. They teach Muay Thai and BJJ as these are the most common bases used by mixed martial artists. I am really enjoying the karate but am kinda getting sick of this school. We have just started a Ju Jitsu syllabus but I don't like it as my Sensei is learning as we are learning (It basically gives me the feel of the GKR people with "instructor" belts teaching when they are hardly know what they are doing-not bagging out GKR Kal El just one of their practices I've read about) So I have done a little bit of submission work and enjoy it. I am contemplating a move to the new place to study BJJ while staying at the current place to learn karate but I am a bit concerned of what my Sensei's reaction will be as he is young and I have seen him say some things to people he shouldn't. To make matters worse I am currently studying to do my instructor accreditation through the current dojo and I don't want to waste the money I've paid to do the course by him getting upset with me and not letting me finish my accreditation (I have to be filmed teaching 3 classes). Don't know what to do.

KalEl

26th August 2013, 07:36 PM

(It basically gives me the feel of the GKR people with "instructor" belts teaching when they are hardly know what they are doing-not bagging out GKR Kal El just one of their practices I've read about)

dont worry I agree entirely, the 'instructor' belt system is very flawed. I myself went through this system and had multiple classes of my own as a green belt. I excelled at my physical karate and was a reasonable teacher, the key for me is I was able to show any student up to a 1st dan what they needed for gradings. Unfortunately this is not the case Most 'black and white' belts in my opinion are under qualified and don't have a sound grasp of fundamentals to teach even sometimes to assist.
That being said being a black belt of higher does not mean you are capable of teaching anything. Communication skills are paramount, also you need to be able to convey the same instruction to 10 different people, 10 different ways and get the same result.
It comes down to 'individual results may vary'. But the key is being about to pass knowledge on the a student of any level that walk through the door regardless of rank.

As a rule of thumb i believe Sensei should be a 1st dan minimum in most cases but there are exceptions where a student may excel and have the necessary communication skills to convey what is required. Just my two cents on the subject :P

Now I can see where your coming from with the issues in your school. To be honest having a clique in a class is unexceptionable, outside of training is cool but in a formal class it is unprofessional and shouldn't be tolerated.
Every student deserves the same attention, tuition and at the same time be subject to the same scrutiny/trials regardless of grade or personal connection. Also the other way, regardless of who is instructing, students should be respectful and open to instruction. "Above the law" can Feck off.

Sinnertwin

26th August 2013, 07:50 PM

GoktimusPrime

28th August 2013, 09:57 AM

In a bit of a pickle at the moment. My martial arts school has a few "McDojo" (even though I hate that term) qualities, like basically handing out belts (In 3.5 years I have only seen one student not pass a grading).
Just to play a bit of Devil's Advocate here, the good thing about getting people through belts faster is that you can get them to black belt sooner where the "real" Karate training begins. The pre-black belt grades and curriculum originated from 20th Century Japan where Karate was introduced to schools and taught to children. Additional simplified katas and movements were introduced to make it simple for young children who lack the motor and cognitive skills to perform more traditional katas designed to be taught to adolescents and adults. Also the teaching methodology is geared at children; i.e. entirely teacher centred rote learning as opposed to more student centred teaching that encourages critical, analytic and evaluative thinking. My Karate dojo teaches the exact same way, which I find incredibly under-stimulating. My former Chen Tai Chi school was geared toward student centred adult learning where we were actively taught to be analytic and evaluative in what we did; moving from that more "academic" culture of martial arts learning to one that feels like martial arts primary school does feel jarring to me; and ultimately counter productive to effective teaching. I can see the merit of this teaching method for children, but I don't see why they blindly teach adolescents and adults in the same way when we have a more developed set of motor and cognitive skills (especially anyone who's ever done any kind of sports before; even a lot of kids do sports other than martial arts which have already well developed many of their physical and coordinative skill sets).

I honestly wish my Dojo would just dispense with the whole belt/grading thing and just move people on as they feel they're ready. That's what traditional schools do that don't have belt-grades. You teach them a form... once they've mastered it and its applications, then you teach the next level. Some students will learn very quickly, others might take more time; it's not a race. Also, as discussed before, the problem with tests is that people train to pass the test rather than to actually become proficient fighters. The same thing happens in schools too -- I've had (and continue to have) many students whose test results are better than their actual ability and vice versa. The main reason why schools have exams is because it's a good way to assess people en masse with little opportunity to cheat. But there are some university courses that don't have exams and find other ways to assess their students. In a martial arts school, once you've trained with someone after a while you get to know what their strengths and weaknesses are. Do you really need a formal examination to tell you? If someone isn't good with stances, they may try extra hard to move in correct stances during grading, but then the rest of the time their stances are sloppy. I find that in my current Dojo (and at the GKR dojo) there's a culture of, "Let's look good for the test!" as opposed to, "Let's get it right every time!"

For me, I try to get things right every time -- but at the day of my grading, maybe due to nervousness or whatever, I made some mistakes, so I didn't score as highly as some others. And that's another criticism of exams - they're only a snapshot of how you perform on the day of the test. That's why a lot of teachers are highly critical of the NAPLAN tests and the MySchools website which judges schools according to NAPLAN results which are nothing more than a snapshot. And there are parents and schools who coach children for NAPLAN (you can buy books at newsagents to help tutor your kids for NAPLAN). It doesn't actually work toward improving your child's literacy or numeracy though (it just helps to make them better at passing that set of exams!). :rolleyes:

To me, the belt-grading system is like the martial arts equivalent of NAPLAN. A series of test with little merit for actual teaching/learning (and if anything, is more counter-intuitive to teaching and learning). :/

My sensei is only young and has befriended a group of teenage boys who train with us and they now think they are "above the law" when I instruct. These are a few examples. Just recently another martial arts school from Nowra expanded and opened up down in Ulladulla. We lost a few members to this school and I saw these 3 guys last week. I quizzed them about the new school and they all said it's better. It is a competition based academy that doesn't teach karate. They teach Muay Thai and BJJ as these are the most common bases used by mixed martial artists.
Students who think they're above the law really should be swiftly dealt with. If they continue to ignore cautions and reprimands, then IMHO the school should consider expulsion. The last thing the martial arts community needs is more irresponsible people w/ MA training. :( As Jerry Wang said in Dark of the Moon, "Come back when you've learned some manners!" :p

I am really enjoying the karate but am kinda getting sick of this school. We have just started a Ju Jitsu syllabus but I don't like it as my Sensei is learning as we are learning (It basically gives me the feel of the GKR people with "instructor" belts teaching when they are hardly know what they are doing-not bagging out GKR Kal El just one of their practices I've read about)
. . . . . how is he a qualified Juujutsu instructor if he's only just started learning it himself? I don't mind if martial arts instructors might want to try something from another style and throw it in w/ their mainstream training. In Kung Fu this happens a lot because so many Kung Fu styles are incomplete thanks to the Cultural Revolution irrevocably destroying much of Chinese culture (temples were razed, books were burnt and monks were executed; consequently a lot of knowledge was lost forever); but one needs to be clever about it -- often drawing movements from similar related styles. I actually wish my Dojo would dabble in stuff from other arts once in a while, but I doubt my instructor even knows anything from other Karate styles (most people at my Dojo don't know the difference between a Kibadachi and Shikodachi :rolleyes:), let alone other non-Karate martial arts.

But if he's actually developing an entire syllabus and actually holding regular Juujutsu classes and charging people money to teach them something that he's barely an expert in himself, then yeah, that's different. It might be better to continue teaching Karate classes, but maybe once in a while just muck around with a bit of Juujutsu during the Karate class. What would be useful would be to get students to use their Karate to counter Juujutsu attacks and vice versa. Surely one of the great benefits of introducing other martial arts styles into your training is allowing students to use their existing knowledge to counter it. I know for me when I look at other styles I often think, "What would I do against that?"

So far I've seen NO submission work or grappling in Goju Karate, we don't even do breakfalls. If they don't want to use these techniques, that's fine... but I think it's important to know how to counter them. A lot of students at my Dojo have fallen into the "trap" of only training to fight against another Goju Karateka and are more vulnerable to being upended in a fight against a proficient fighter of another style.

Now I can see where your coming from with the issues in your school. To be honest having a clique in a class is unexceptionable, outside of training is cool but in a formal class it is unprofessional and shouldn't be tolerated.
Every student deserves the same attention, tuition and at the same time be subject to the same scrutiny/trials regardless of grade or personal connection. Also the other way, regardless of who is instructing, students should be respectful and open to instruction. "Above the law" can Feck off.
^100% agree. Instructors need to maintain professional standards and students who aren't willing to listen can bugger off.

GoktimusPrime

29th August 2013, 11:18 AM

So I called my local BJJ school to arrange for a free introductory lesson. I also enquired about prices... PHWOAR! Not cheap! :eek:
Lessons = $72 / fortnight (approx. $3k / year)
Uniform = $190+
:eek: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/th_spitdrink-1.gif :eek:

And apparently you have to buy their school's uniform which is covered in their logo; I don't think they'll let me use my old Aikido gi (which is the same thing, but w/o their logos). Just... wow. The lesson cost might be worth it if I were could attend 3~4 lessons per week, but currently I'm lucky if I can train once a week. And I really can't justify paying nearly two hundred bucks for a gi... jeepers crikey. The only upside is that there's no annual membership/enrolment fee -- most likely because it'd be more than paid for by the exorbitant lesson fees. Especially w/ my daughter starting school next year, as appealing as BJJ may be, I just cannot justify the expense.

Bartrim

6th September 2013, 01:20 PM

GoktimusPrime

7th September 2013, 11:33 PM

Recently saw some stuff about how to kick down a door...
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/04/08/how-to-break-down-a-door/
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/10/26/how-to-break-down-a-door-an-illustrated-guide/
...which is similar to a conversation I once had w/ a police officer who's had to kick doors down before and described the technique like this.

What interests me is that when using the front kick to knock doors off hinges, it's pretty much the same as a front kick used in Chinese martial arts (and was apparently how the Okinawans originally front kicked too (http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/back-to-basics-front-kick.html), so it appears to be more traditional); i.e. driving off the heel of the supporting foot and impacting with the heel of the kicking foot -- whereas in Karate we're taught the opposite - to drive and impact with the balls of the feet. I've personally felt that driving from the balls of the feet gives less power. Driving from the heel of the supporting leg obviously provides greater stability. When we walk we naturally stride heel first, not on the balls of our feet or toes ... unless you're trying to be sneaky. ;) So it's also more naturally intuitive.

A simple test to see how much stronger a heel strike can be is to just, even from where you're sitting, start stamping the ball of your foot into the floor as hard as you can. Now try it again with the heel. I don't know about you guys, but I get a much harder thud with my heel. And I know that when I'm kicking against bags/shields, I deliver much more power with my heel than I can with the ball. That's NOT to say that kicking with the ball of the foot is weak or powerless; but I'm just saying that, biomechanically speaking, it seems that striking with the heel delivers greater power and thrust than with the ball.

So I'm finding it hard to favour stepping and kicking with the balls of my feet when using my heels still seems to give me greater power in my steps and kicks. The main advantage I would see with using the ball would be greater range, not just in terms of extended reach, but also in terms of the supporting leg "slingshotting" you forward more, which a heel turn doesn't do. Arguably some of this reach may be limited when you're wearing hard shoes that don't easily allow your toes to bend back. Chinese martial arts train with shoes on, and probably the ancient Okinawans too -- shoe-off training is more of a Japanese thing and purely because they trained on tatami mats that would get damaged by hard soles. Even the Japanese would've practised w/ shoes on when outdoors (http://thunderclam.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/the-last-samurai-the-last-samurai-10720439-978-651.jpg). At my Dojo whenever we've done bagwork with kicks, other students have thrown kicks with the balls of their feet and the most powerful ones have thumped into the shield, but my heel kicks actually drive the instructor backwards as the force of each kick pushes him away, even with his solid stance. Ditto Kingeri/lift kicks, and I would attribute that to me turning on the heel of my supporting leg (since the foot still impacts on the same part of the kicking foot).

My intention isn't necessarily to say that heel based stepping/kicking is definitively superior to ball based stepping/kicking; different things work for different people, and in my experience using the heels works better for me. What I would like to suggest is for people to just try stepping and kicking with the heels and see if it makes any improvement. If not, then by all means continue using the balls of your feet. But what's been irking me during my Karate training has been this bias that everyone in my Dojo has against using heels. Sensei can't stand it and just loses it when people turn/kick on the heels, and I'm forever being corrected on it. I don't intentionally use the heels in my Karate training - I do try to use the balls of my feet, but I probably do it unconsciously because my previous Tai Chi training has made it instinctive for me to use the heels. And I haven't really been shown any good reason why I shouldn't use the heels; the instructors keep insisting that stepping/turning on the heels is terribly unstable, but I don't experience that at all. If stepping on the balls of the feet is so much more stable, why don't we all walk on tippy toes 24/7? Why do athletes like runners (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/london-2012-olympics/files/2012/08/Bolt200London_Olympics_Athletics_Men_0ce40.jpg), tennis players (http://www.therichest.com/wp-content/uploads/Rafael-Nadal.jpg), footballers (http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2008/07/02/va1237513690629/ACTION-from-the-the-third-State-of-Origin-match-at-A-6125152.jpg) etc. all step heel first if it's so unstable?

I would rather have an instructor just tell me that it's a stylistic difference and that in Karate we step/kick with the balls of the feet as a stylistic preference rather than trying to feed me some pseudo-scientific reason that doesn't make sense. e.g. I've learnt two different single leg stances in Chinese martial arts - the Crane Stance (http://www.chinese-kungfu.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/crane-kungfu-01.jpg) and the Rooster Stance (http://www.creativespirit.net/noreens7artsstudio/images/tais_B4.jpg). They're both nearly identical stances, both in form and function -- the only real difference is that the Crane Stance has the toes pointing down whereas the Rooster Stance has the toes pointing forward. Neither really offers any substantial advantage over the other; it's pretty much just a personal/stylistic difference. I personally prefer the Crane Stance which is what I use in application, but in my Tai Chi forms I use Rooster Stance because that's the correct way to do the form.

And I can accept that the correct way to step and kick in modern Karate is on the balls of the feet; I don't have a problem with that... what I find more objectionable is being told that the other method is inherently flawed but without any actual proof. That's like saying that we shouldn't start sentences in English with a conjunction because it will make it harder for people to understand you. No it won't. Yes, technically it is bad English, but it doesn't impact on your ability to communicate.
e.g. "I prefer using the heels." vs "But I prefer using the heels."
^The second sentence is grammatically incorrect, but in actual conversational application it makes no substantive difference.

GoktimusPrime

9th September 2013, 11:50 PM

Wrestling is back in the Olympics. :)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-09/olympics3a-wrestling-to-return-to-games-program-in-2020-in-tok/4944724

GoktimusPrime

15th September 2013, 04:07 PM

This (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f54_1337075813) video shows a fascinating animated map of Europe showing how it's politically changed since 1000C.E. until now. Pretty much everything up until about 03:00 into the video shows the history of Europe while melee combat was still widely used in warfare. At that point we see the advent of modern machine weaponry (such as the automatic assault rifle) rendering martial arts relatively useless in combat.

P.S.: This (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=73c_1353166453) video acts as a "prequel" and shows the history of Europe, Asia and Northern Africa from 1000BCE to 1000CE; a 2000 year period! :eek:

Bartrim

17th September 2013, 12:55 PM

Got my Ju Jitsu gi last night. Damn it is heavy. Not looking forward to training in summer.

KalEl

17th September 2013, 10:17 PM

Got my Ju Jitsu gi last night. Damn it is heavy. Not looking forward to training in summer.

yup! that grip material lol my judo gi is 18 oz very heavy

GoktimusPrime

18th September 2013, 12:42 AM

Ho yeah... you'll be sweatin' like a pig! :o Hopefully they'll let you do some gi-less training too. One problem I find w/ gi grappling (aside from the immense discomfort) is that people become too reliant on grappling the baggy gi itself, which is not incredibly practical for modern day self defence where most people don't walk around in their pyjamas. ;) Good grappling should be focused purely on grabbing the body, not the clothes (no chance for clothes cheating in traditional Greek wrestling! :D)

Does your Jujutsu school use a "closed" Ukemi or "Open" Ukemi (http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3049/2284036353_1f712f4fe0_z.jpg?zz=1), or the more open version? I find the open version is more commonly practised, but leaves you horribly exposed.
Open Ukemi = exposed --->http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Wushu/mtvskf4.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Wushu/mtvskf5.jpg <--- Closed Ukemi = better defended

Bartrim

20th September 2013, 06:08 PM

Ho yeah... you'll be sweatin' like a pig! :o Hopefully they'll let you do some gi-less training too. One problem I find w/ gi grappling (aside from the immense discomfort) is that people become too reliant on grappling the baggy gi itself, which is not incredibly practical for modern day self defence where most people don't walk around in their pyjamas. ;)

Considering all the bogans that walk around Ulladulla in their pyjamas I think it could be quite practical down here :p

We are to ditch the top in the warmer weather as most of our competitions are no gi but all the official stuff like gradings etc the heavy thing must be worn. It does have some nice embroidery on it though.:)

GoktimusPrime

21st September 2013, 09:31 AM

Considering all the bogans that walk around Ulladulla in their pyjamas I think it could be quite practical down here :p
Lol. :D Judo Gi + Ugg boots = you're set :)

Bartrim

23rd September 2013, 07:56 AM

Jon Jones v Alexander Gustafson = Fight of the Year!

Bartrim

27th September 2013, 03:38 PM

Just realised that I have been doing karate now for 3 years.

Time flies when you have fun:)

KalEl

27th September 2013, 10:03 PM

Just realised that I have been doing karate now for 3 years.

Time flies when you have fun:)

Awesome stuff man!

GoktimusPrime

1st October 2013, 10:07 PM

For those of us who have yet to master no touch chi fighting (:p), here's (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTU2NDQ1ODQ=.html) an interesting video showcasing a technique for Baguazhang Kung Fu. I quite like the end position where the defender's knee is exerting body weight onto the attacker's neck. :)

GoktimusPrime

5th October 2013, 01:53 PM

Just got back from Fujian Province, home of Fujian Kung Fu which of course is the direct ancestor of Karate. I went inside a Kung Fu museum here aaand --- was greatly disappointed. Now performances, not even any videos; just some basic information and photos... some of which were about other Southern Kung Fu styles that didn't come from Fujian (e.g. Wing Chun). <sigh> Although something tells me that even if there were a demonstration, it'd most likely be Modern Wushu; which is like Kung Fu mixed with acrobatics and gymnastics (what you typically see in Chinese Kung Fu movies) and are about as authentic in representing Kung Fu as the WWE is in representing Greco-Roman Wrestling. :p Much like the WWE, Wushu is something people enjoy as a form of stunt-based entertainment, but not as an authentic fighting form. But I didn't even see any of that... it was mostly a whole lot of nothing.

I'd say it was a WOFTAM, only that admission was free... so just WOFT. :rolleyes: ;)

Bartrim

17th October 2013, 09:34 PM

Had my first full on ju jitsu lesson. We study Eddie Bravo's 10th planet ju jitsu. We did a lot of work on rubber guard. I am not very flexible :p

GoktimusPrime

17th October 2013, 10:25 PM

What's rubber guard?

I was actually discussing Jujutsu w/ some of the kids at my Dojo today. One of the kids hates sparring and always makes a fuss when the instructor wants us to spar. He did the same thing today so the instructor caved and decided to NOT have us spar (gee, thanks :rolleyes:). I told him that he doesn't need to be scared of sparring because it's SO much safer than a real fight because he's in a nice, controlled and safe environment (flat dry surface, 1 v 1, no weapons etc.). I also added that another advantage is that the person that he spars with (the other kid) is also a Karateka and therefore he knows all the techniques that his partner will use on him (in fact, his partner is of a lower belt!). This kid then started bragging about how "I know everything he knows!", so I told him that he would not have this advantage on the street against fighters who use other fighting styles/methods. He'd lost interest in what I was trying to say to him (sigh), but the other kid was more interested and I started talking to him about Jujutsu, which he'd never heard of before. It's interesting how insular his views (not just the kids, but some adults at the school too) have toward martial arts; as if they actually cannot even imagine what different styles might be like.

I explained to this kid that Jujutsu doesn't employ striking but is more reliant on grappling and take-downs... I don't think he had any clue as to what this mean. So I asked him to throw a punch, and I gently took him down and did a very simple armbar (not that I'm very good at it, but he's just a kid so even a badly done armbar was enough to give him some basic idea of what being taken down and grappled was like). Up till tonight I think his idea of 'fighting' was entirely based on tournament style point sparring. But he told me that he did like the idea of a fighting style that didn't hit people. :) He's a really gentle person and he's said that he really doesn't like the idea of hitting another person, and others have criticised him for this because that's apparently his "weakness" in his last tournament where he was unable to land any decent hits onto his opponent that would score points. :rolleyes: But I heard that the other opponent (who was a higher belt) was also unable to land any hits on him, so I repeatedly praised him for that... I told him that he doesn't NEED to hit anyone in a fight -- if he can avoid being hit then he's done very well! Everyone else (including his parents) kept on encouraging him to "do better" next time and hopefully land more hits in, but I kept on praising him for just not getting touched! Seriously... he deserves to get praised for just avoiding getting hit! If another kid at school or someone on the streets tries to hit him, and all he does is dodge/block/parry and run off then that's perfect! If he hits back then he gets suspended from school too (as schools suspend all students who use violence, even if it's in self defence). I wish that others were more encouraging of this boy's natural tendency toward a more passive and pacifistic form of self defence rather than trying to encourage him to become some kind of kickboxer. Considering his personality, I reckon he'd be better off doing a more passive/defensive martial art like Jujutsu, Aikido, Tai Chi etc. What's the point of spending all this time and money learning to punch and kick when he doesn't want to use it in a fight? :rolleyes:

IMO a lot of students at our Dojo should try sparring w/ a grappler some time, because we do NO grappling... not even any breakfalling ever. :rolleyes: I do use Tai Chi take downs and grappling when I spar*, but sparring's becoming increasingly rare at this school which is more focused on techniques and Kata... and that's all great, but gee I'd like to spar once in a while (or even do more two person drills, almost everything we do is just individual work). I honestly haven't done any sparring at the Dojo since July! :eek:

------------------------------
*I have to be extremely careful when I do take downs because my partners don't know how to breakfall... I often just move in to tip them off balance so they're just about to fall, but then pull out so they don't actually fall. Or if I do take them down, I do it slowly and gently because there's also no mats; I often slip another arm behind the head to protectively cradle it as they fall backwards (to avoid having the base of the skull hit the floor, which it totally would if I did a full forced take down!).

Bartrim

17th October 2013, 10:53 PM

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_guard

GoktimusPrime

17th October 2013, 10:55 PM

Aah, cool thanks. :) I'll look up some videos on YouTube later to see it in action. :D

Bartrim

18th October 2013, 01:55 PM

Aah, cool thanks. :) I'll look up some videos on YouTube later to see it in action. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUDqbU2jwxg

This is the exercise we focused on last night. With my limited flexibility you can probably imagine I am very sore today.

Bartrim

5th November 2013, 10:07 AM

Preparing for grading at the end of the year that includes 10 rounds of sparring so I am doing extra classes I took a Muay Thai class after karate last night. Very interesting to see the difference in the turning kicks between the two different disciplines.

GoktimusPrime

5th November 2013, 11:21 PM

In my experience I find Muay Thai kicks are very powerful, but sacrifice control and finer technique. I've found that a lot of them are proficient at fighting at long (i.e. punching/kicking) and medium range (i.e. elbowing/kneeing/clinching), but not quite as efficient at close range. Have you tried using BJJ techniques against MT attacks? Cos I find the trick w/ fighting MT fighters is to keep a good defence at long/medium range then attack at close range. Just my personal experience. Individual results may vary. ;)

Bartrim

9th November 2013, 07:27 PM

Important lesson learnt last Monday.

Been doing alot of sparring leading up to my grading. My biggest problem with sparring is I move like a street fighter character, shuffling back and forth so I have been working on lateral movement. An advanced technique that us higher level students use is your standard teep kick but instead of aiming at the midsection we hit the hipbone on the lead leg. It completely throws your opponent off balance. So a guy throws a hip level teep to someone who is practicing lateral movement. The end result is Gok's favourite ancient martial arts technique of a kick to the janglies.

Good times were had by everyone...except me.:o

GoktimusPrime

10th November 2013, 02:40 PM

You should be standing and moving in proper solid (re: anchored) stances rather than 'shuffling' about like a modern boxer. Your footwork should more closely resemble the way your legs move during katas, and I'm sure you don't shuffle in katas. :) A common mistake some people make is to stand 'on' their stances rather than 'in' them. The centre of mass/weight should be distributed in a way that it effectively "anchors" or "sinks" the practitioner into the ground. The common analogy is to imagine that you are a tree and that there are roots shooting out from beneath your feet and attached to the ground. This should allow you to better absorb incoming force, or quickly recover if you are upended (e.g. by quickly switching to another stance to regain your balance, or worse case scenario, performing a breakfall).

Now in saying that a person should be rooted in their stance, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be rock-solid like a statue. One should be solid but fluid at the same time. This is something that I find a lot of schools don't teach properly, the idea of being simultaneously hard and soft. I find all too many people are either too 'hard' and don't move fluidly, or they're too 'soft' and they move with a good flow but insufficient solidity.

Some misinterpretations I've encountered include:
+ You switch between being hard and soft - e.g. when throwing a punch your arm is relaxed (soft), but hardens up on impact (hard).
+ One part of your body is hard, while another is soft - e.g. you are hard from waist down in a solid stance, but soft from waist up as you're punching/blocking etc.
I don't find either explanation to be terribly good, because they seem to view hard/soft like a light switch which means that the two properties are mutually exclusive. They seem to completely miss the point of the Yin Yang which shows hardness and softness being mutually inclusive, and the two dots at the largest portions of the opposites showing that hardness can be found at the height of softness and vice versa. I prefer analogies like looking at a whip or a crashing wave at the beach -- things that are soft in nature but also extremely 'hard' and strong in the amount of force they deliver.

http://www.calasanz.com/strong-martial-arts-stance/

So we want our stances to be strong and solid, but at the same time not "dead." They should also be agile and mobile... but not too mobile that you lose strength in the stance. It's all about striking that balance. :) There are various different exercises that you can do to practise this. I personally find Tai Chi's Push Hands is quite good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r59gWTzKSw
^It looks deceptively gentle, but each forward push is actually producing a good amount of force. The object of the activity is to actually shove your opponent off balance with every push. A single mistake can send you flying backwards. :o

As for the groin strike, that's got more to do with your defensive posture. At virtually no point in a fight should your groin be exposed to an opponent. But we all make mistakes, and unfortunately stuffing up your groin defence is an extremely painful one to make. :o

Bartrim

11th November 2013, 01:37 AM

I've explained our schools policy on groin strikes numerous times to you. One last time. In sparring situations safety is our top priority so we only allow kicks from above the knee to shoulder height with all leg kicks to be on the outside of our partners legs. If you lack the basic control to follow these simple rules then you really shouldn't be doing martial arts:rolleyes:

GoktimusPrime

11th November 2013, 05:24 PM

I'd genuinely forgotten about that. :o At the Dojo where I learn Karate, groin strikes are allowed, but head strikes are forbidden in sparring. But we still learn how to defend the head. Having said that... I find that the majority of people I spar with at the Dojo are pretty poor at head defence. :( It's similar to my experience in sparring with people who don't do groin strikes and have poor groin defence. I think that when you disallow certain attacks, it can make some people complacent in learning to defend themselves from those techniques. I reckon this is why a lot of students at my Dojo are really bad at defending the head. A lot of them are also not good at defending themselves from grappling because we never learn any grappling or breakfalling etc.

I understand and totally agree that safety is a top priority. Martial arts schools have a legal duty of care over their students, I get that. But surely there must be a way to allow certain techniques to be used in a relatively safe(r) manner.
e.g.
+ Using protective equipment such as groin guards, head gear, floor mats etc.
+ Training students to modify attacks in training for safety. e.g. only "tapping" the head with your fists or finger tips (like playing tips in the schoolyard), only striking to the upper inner thighs (so that you're striking next to the groin but not at it) etc.

^JMHO :o

Bartrim

11th November 2013, 05:35 PM

We have tried various techniques in the past. We also don't allow head strikes. We used to allow taps to the head but we found a lot of the newer sparrers had trouble with control. Same with inside leg kicks. Watching a lot of UFC even the professionals have trouble mastering that technique correctly and at each event there are at least 3-4 groin strikes. We do have to wear groin guards but they only prevent permanent injury. They don't stop the pain!:o

GoktimusPrime

21st December 2013, 08:16 PM

Disclaimer: The following post only represents my personal views on my own experience with individual schools. It is not intended to be a broad sweeping criticism on Karate or any other particular martial arts school or system.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaand, I think I'm done with Karate now. To hopefully make a long story short, reasons are:
1) I find the whole grading/belt system is really too counter-productive to learning actual self defence. Classes are structured towards passing tests rather than to practically apply skills.
2) Sensei cannot teach. He is highly knowledgable in traditional Okinawan Karate, which is what drew me to his school in the first place, but he cannot teach it. Reasons for this include:
+ He gets really angry and abusive if you make mistakes (as if it were a personal attack - I'm serious), and of course beginners make the most mistakes and consequently cop the most abuse. The more mistakes you make, the more he rages at you, and the more stressed you get, and the more mistakes you make, which makes him even madder. It's an endless escalating cycle. Honestly... he gets angry if you're less than perfect, but if we were already experts then we wouldn't need him to teach us! :rolleyes: Furthermore there's just something really weird about learning to defend myself from bullies and thugs from a teacher who is himself, a thuggish bully. Also, I'm sure we'd all agree that respect is a two way street. I have no respect for anyone who won't respect me, and I no longer wish to pay him any more money to teach^demoralise me. I've also heard anecdotal stories from other students that he's made children cry.
+ He has no concept of proper effectual teaching. His mantra is basically, "Shut up and obey." There's no room for critical/analytical thinking, student based learning, creativity, exploration etc. Quite frankly, if I ever had a student teacher who taught like Sensei, I would most certainly fail that student teacher.

There's a common assumption at the school that because Sensei is highly knowledgable when it comes to traditional Okinawan Karate (which he is), that therefore he's an excellent teacher. This isn't the case. That's like saying that anyone who's a fluent speaker of English can be a great English teacher. :rolleyes: Staying with this Dojo means that I would have to endure continued emotional stress at paying a man to rage at me and call it teaching. And really, there's nothing that they've taught me that, in terms of practical skills, have really added to my martial arts repertoire. I already know how to strike, block, evade, parry, grapple, counter-grapple... I would like to have more practise in doing this, but it's unlikely to happen until I pass more grading tests, which means that I need to endure many months (or years) worth of infuriating lessons just to get up to a level that I would find personally productive.

So I'm spending lots of time and money and really not learning anything terribly useful. All the techniques I've learnt I already know how to do -- okay, I do it in a different way, but it still achieves the same outcome. i.e. the way that Tai Chi blocks an incoming medium height punch (Chuudantsuki) is different from Karate's, but they both achieve the same goal (i.e. thwart the attack). I don't see why I need to invest all this time, money and effort to essentially reinvent the wheel. This is quite different from some other martial arts teachers (in schools that don't have grades/belts) who can allow students who've had previous martial arts experience to skip some basic level forms and just start off at a higher level so that they would learn something that would be useful for them. Sure, their basics would differ, but it was a case of "you'll get used to it as you progress" rather than taking them all the way back to square one and starting again. I don't teach Japanese Kanji stroke order to students who are literate in Chinese! There are some differences between Chinese characters used in Chinese and Japanese, but Chinese-literate students can adjust to these differences as they learn the language. There's no real need to go back to the bare basics of learning to write Chinese characters as I would with students who aren't literate in Chinese.

Furthermore I have two situations that are changing next year...
1/ My daughter is starting school, including Saturday school. Karate gradings at the Dojo I go to are ONLY ever held on Saturdays.
2/ I started doing Karate 2 years ago because in 2012 and 2013 I had after school classes on Wednesdays, which is also the only day that my local Yang Tai Chi school runs classes. Due to this schedule clash I decided to try Karate. Next year none of my after school classes are running on Wednesdays, so I think I'll just go back to Tai Chi which is far more productive and intuitive for me. Even though my local Tai Chi school teaches for health/relaxation rather than combat/self defence, I have enough previous knowledge of Tai Chi to retroactively apply their techniques which I can practice in my own time.

Again, none of this is intended to be a criticism against Karate itself, but given my individual circumstances I think it makes more sense for me to just go back to Tai Chi.

Bartrim

14th January 2014, 01:46 PM

I haven't posted here in ages as I have been busy with work over summer. At the start of December I went to Parkes for a Kumiai-Ryu tai kai and senior grading day. I had to learn 3 katas. A basic forms kata, a bo staff kata and a grappling sequence. I hate doing kata. I feel so much pressure doing it so I made sure I had them exactly right. I broke them down with my sensei step by step until I could do the bo staff kata with my eyes shut. I get through the grading no problems and it's time to do the kata. The basic and bo katas go off without a hitch. Even to the point of I had a huge grin on my face by the end of the bo kata as I didn't feel any pressure and was having fun doing it. I get to the grappling sequence kata, partner up with another student grading and go to perform the sequence and IT's WRONG! My instructor taught me the wrong kata! He was sitting up with the panel of judges so I turn to him and with a dumbfounded look say "This isn't what I learnt. What do I do?" One of the senior judges yells out "Quiet and just do it!" Thankfully my partner was quite helpful and guided me through. After that we had 10x2 minute rounds of sparring. After about 3 rounds I noticed every time I went to switch partners there would be 3-4 people rushing to get to spar with me. After a couple of more rounds and starting to feel really sore (more so then I expected from the sparring) I noticed that I am the only one with an over abundance of senior students wanting to spar with me. I also notice that I am the only one limping after 6 rounds. I scape through the sparring... just. Thankfully the last guy I sparred was quite gentle on me. After we are awarded our belts everyone is shaking hands and getting photos etc. One of the senior officials "Tashi" Dave asks if he could speak to me. "Of course" I reply. I follow him to a quiet area where he is there with "Shihan" Rob and "Kyoshi" Kevin (our system of school's founder) The proceed to verbally dress me down like I was a 6 year old child for being rude and disrespectful by questioning my Sensei in front of everyone. I insisted that I wasn't being disrespectful merely turning to my Sensei for guidance. They tell me I should of watched the instructional DVD with all the katas on it. I admit that I had the kata wrong but if I show it to my instructor incorrectly and he says it's fine then why would I watch the DVD? They refuse to budge on the subject blaming me 100% saying I need to improve my attitude and that I should count myself lucky one of the senior members didn't knock me out when I disrespected my sensei. Realising I am banging my head against a wall I smile and apologise but in my head I'm smiling and thinking "I wonder what that other martial arts school in town is like?" They forced me to apologise to my sensei in front of them and this was the last straw. All I wanted from him was a little responsibility for teaching me the wrong kata but I got none. Several friends of mine who study martial arts have heard this story and feel I did nothing wrong and understand that I was looking for help in the situation. So now I am training at a school that although it is competition based the training is excellent. they teach Muay Thai and BJJ. Their BJJ is legit too as you can trace back the instructor lineage (something very important in BJJ). This is something I have often questioned about Kumiai-Ryu's BJJ and I've never gotten a straight answer. I have had "red flags" about Kumiai-Ryu pop up over the past 6 months but this grading sealed it for me. I've been training at Southern Fitness and Martial Arts for 3 weeks now and I really enjoy it. A very friendly school as opposed to Kumiai-Ryu and their secret motto of "Are you a black belt? No... Then shut up!". Kumiai-Ryu starts back again next week and I am going back to finish my accreditation, even if I never use I still think it will only benefit me in the future. My ignorant Sensei is going to get a shock when I downgrade my class package from 4 classes a week to 1.

That's my story about what I've been doing for the past month in the martial arts world.

GoktimusPrime

14th January 2014, 03:13 PM

Sounds like we've both hit the same wall -- training at schools that value form over substance (http://cdn.omg-facts.com/2013/1/15/423c4cad7e7474e0879e486713602444.jpg) with a school culture that promotes blind obedience and conformity over independent and higher level critical thinking. And like you, the alternative for me isn't ideal either, but I'd much rather train at a school where I'm not treated like a complete idiot.

KalEl

18th January 2014, 02:48 PM

Bartrim

13th February 2014, 03:52 PM

So I am still at Kumiai-Ryu but only about half the time I used to be there. Decided I should at least finish off my instructor accreditation before I completely quit there.

I have to film myself teaching a lesson tonight. Should be interesting.

GoktimusPrime

20th February 2014, 10:32 PM

Good luck w/ getting that accreditation. It'd be nice to at least leave Karate with something to show for it. :o

My work schedule is conflicting with the Yang Tai Chi classes this year. Again. But I've decided not to waste any more money on my local Karate Dojos. I'm just doing informal outside training. Our group has a mix of people from different styles including Karate, Aikido and Wing Chun Kung Fu. It's fun sometimes to mix and combine different techniques -- e.g. I recently used some Aikido footwork with a Tai Chi take down technique to 'force' a highly resistant opponent onto the ground. :) Aikido stepping is wider and more "arcing" than Tai Chi's, which has more of a "corkscrew" effect to drive the opponent into the ground; whereas Tai Chi's armwork is tighter than Aikido's -- so I found that the combination of Tai Chi upper body movement with Aikido lower body movement better enabled me to bring down stronger opponents who were actively resisting being taken down. I get a lot more benefit from doing this kind of cross training and I don't have to pay for it either. :)

Bartrim

7th March 2014, 09:46 AM

I liked this page called "McDojo" on facebook. Great for a (cringeworthy) laugh.

https://www.facebook.com/McDojoLife?fref=ts

Here are some examples of the great you tube vids they post.

EFO Empty force fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6XldR7pCFI

Yi Chuan Kung Fu... I'm still not sure if these guys are just a parody though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIqtLa35kc

GoktimusPrime

7th March 2014, 12:42 PM

Had a quick look at the FB page. I see what you mean by cringeworthy laughs... man, that Kung Fu Vs TKD video -- all it needs is the Benny Hill chase music. :p

Sinnertwin

7th March 2014, 08:18 PM

I dont know if it was the EFO or the fact that i was PMSL, but something moved me

KIAIIIII!

Bartrim

15th March 2014, 07:51 PM

Well this is the last week. Due to family reasons my Sensei is closing his doors and moving back to Peak Hill. The sad thing is if he hadn't been such a douchebag over the whole thing we actually could of kept the doors open with a Sensei from outside the area possibly relocating but it's too late now. Onwards to Southern Martial Arts and Crossfit (except for the crossfit)

Bartrim

21st March 2014, 05:17 PM

Enjoying Southern Martial Arts. Got to spar in a boxing ring which was awesome and a 15 year old learnt a harsh but valuable lesson about forgetting his groin guard.

Megatran

21st March 2014, 05:47 PM

*Snip* and a 15 year old learnt a harsh but valuable lesson about forgetting his groin guard.

What I'd give to see that. :p

GoktimusPrime

22nd March 2014, 12:30 AM

Also about just forgetting to defend one's groin. There are no guards in a real fight unless he's gonna wear a cup 24/7. ;) :D Either way... lesson learnt. Hopefully. I have met some people who still refuse to even contemplate wearing guards or practising techniques to better protect the groin even after getting hit there. Their thinking is just, "Only a dog would hit someone there," uh... right... because bullies and people who commit assault are totally going to have a sense of decency and honour! :rolleyes: :p

--------------------------------

I've recently been training with someone who keeps on using the Wing Chun Horse Stance all the time, even though it seems to offer him really poor balance and also leaves him very open/exposed (especially the groin). On a few instances I've tried to demonstrate this to him by kicking toward his groin (but stopping short of making any contact), and also just shoving him backwards to show his lack of balance. Despite this, he still continues to use the Wing Chun Horse Stance in every aspect and appears to be leading with his hands rather than with his legs (which would also account for why his stance doesn't serve him well). :confused:

According to this site (http://www.ipmanwingchunfrance.com/Stances--and--Kicks.php):

It must be stressed that the Wing Chun training stance is not a stance in which one would fight. Wing Chun Sil Lim Tao stance is called Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma and comes from the first form of Wing Chun Kung Fu.

The stance is used to develop the leg muscles and balance from simply standing (Its an Isotomic strength training exercise for those who wanted to know, that means it trains muscles to be strong without movement). The first Wing Chun form, Sil Lim Tao or �Little Idea�, is performed with the practitioner remaining in the training stance throughout the form. All of the other hand forms start in this same training stance.

When I look at images of practical Wing Chun applications, they do what virtually every other martial art system does and employ stances that has one foot in front of the other (duh!). :p
http://www.brooklynwt.com/files/images/Yip%20Man%20one%20sided%20triangule.jpg
http://www.wingchun.si/images/slides/yipman09.jpg
http://pacificwavejiujitsu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Wing-chun-stance.jpg
http://www.lawingchun.com/jessica/MA%20Legends%20Dec%202000-%20Fighting%20Force%20Without%20Force/pg5_full.jpg

I gave him a push that was firm enough to send him backwards, but gentle enough that it wouldn't make him fall over. And I've shown him how to adopt a wider stance (i.e. bow stance / Zenkutsudachi) that will better absorb incoming force without budging. I told him to give me a hard shove, and he did, and he couldn't move me when I was in the correct stance. Time to do some Tai Chi Push Hands next time. ;)

Trent

22nd March 2014, 05:10 PM

I have met some people who still refuse to even contemplate wearing guards or practising techniques to better protect the groin even after getting hit there. Their thinking is just, "Only a dog would hit someone there," uh... right... because bullies and people who commit assault are totally going to have a sense of decency and honour! :rolleyes: :p

This attitude always amuses me. If I'm in a fight with you, it's because you started it. I don't pick fights and am a very non violent person. So if I find myself in a position where I have to defend myself, considering I have zero martial arts training, I'm gonna look for the easiest and safest way (for me) to end that fight. And a swift, hard kick to the groin has a good chance of that.

Outside of a ring, there is no such thing as a fair fight.

KalEl

26th March 2014, 09:38 PM

Good discussions going on :)

Glad the new dojo is working out bro!

Bartrim

26th March 2014, 11:06 PM

Good discussions going on :)

Glad the new dojo is working out bro!

Thanks. The martial arts there is more competition based. They do a little bit of self defence. I'm enjoying it a lot. I did karate (kempo) for 4.5 years now switching to a more competition based martial art like Muay Thai, it feels like a fresh start and I look forward to learning more and blending the styles I've learnt together.

What are you training in at the moment?

KalEl

29th March 2014, 06:39 PM

Thanks. The martial arts there is more competition based. They do a little bit of self defence. I'm enjoying it a lot. I did karate (kempo) for 4.5 years now switching to a more competition based martial art like Muay Thai, it feels like a fresh start and I look forward to learning more and blending the styles I've learnt together.

What are you training in at the moment?

Body building atm

GoktimusPrime

5th June 2014, 10:39 AM

Found this article while looking up stuff on the relationship of energy in boxing dynamics. The article talks about why weight training doesn't increase punching power, but how it's more related to grounding (i.e. stances!), plyometric movement, muscle groups etc. Not to say that weight training isn't beneficial -- as I said, I wasn't even looking up anything to do w/ weights when I found this, but I find the aspects of the article that focuses on what does actually work in issuing power to be quite good. :) The article is talking about boxing training, so the illustration shows a peeled rear heel (which traditional martial arts never does unless you want to make yourself an easier target for grapplers :p), but otherwise I found it a rather interesting read.
http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-training/boxing-workouts/why-lifting-weights-wont-increase-punching-power-part-2
And yes, it should be f=ma (force = mass x acceleration), not F=MA :rolleyes:

Bartrim

8th June 2014, 10:43 AM

I haven't read the article but we hold 1Kg weights when we do punching drills to help develop speed.

Bartrim

21st June 2014, 09:40 PM

Did shadow sparring on Thursday night. Zigged when I should of zagged, now I've got a black eye and a nice cut on my cheek:o

GoktimusPrime

22nd June 2014, 06:52 PM

It sounds better if you tell people that you headbutted an incoming punch (and that your sparring partner now has his hand in a cast :p). ;)

Dkaris

24th June 2014, 07:28 PM

Out of interest does any one here do kendo at all?

GoktimusPrime

2nd July 2014, 10:14 PM

Out of interest does any one here do kendo at all?
Nope. Certainly isn't a cheap martial art to do. ;)

Be aware that Kendo is pretty much a competitive sport rather than a fighting art. It's fine if you're more interested in the sport/competition aspect, but if you're more interested in the actual art of Japanese swordsmanship, I'd recommend looking into martial arts like Kenjutsu, Battoujutsu, Iaijutsu etc. They're also not cheap, but cheaper than Kendo (cos you don't have to purchase the armour!). :D

These clubs pretty much require you to pay for a year's worth of membership before they even let you do any training -- no free trial lesson. You are also required to purchase all of your own equipment too, so with Kenjutsu you'll need to pay for the Gi uniform (including hakama) and a bokken/bokuto (wooden sword). With Kendo you'll need to purchase these same things, but also the armour set (which is quite dear) and a shinai (bamboo sword) -- you'll still need the oak bokken too, as that's used for practising kata, whereas shinai are used for sparring and competitions. Don't let the fact that bokken are made from wood fool you, they can be extremely dangerous. During the Meiji Period when it became illegal for any unauthorised persons to carry metal swords and the samurai class was disbanded, some samurai began carrying bokken and some of them actually recorded higher kills using bokken than they did with metal katana! :eek: Part of this is because while a katana is a hacking/slicing weapon, bokken deal more blunt force trauma injuries which can cause greater internal damage (and infections), which can become fatal. A person who has his arm chopped off can continue living as an amputee, but there were cases of people dying from internal organ damage caused by bokken. So for this reason, nobody spars or competes with a solid oak bokken, only with bamboo shinai which are hollow on the inside and are designed to collapse to absorb the shock (much like the crumple zone of a car). They still hurt like hell if they hit you though! (like a massively bad caning... ouch!) :p ;)