Transformers retail prices in 2012 unchanged despite exchange rate

[griffin]

Moved these posts here from the BigW Pricing topic (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=13052), as my posts were getting the News posting off-topic.

Pity about the prices though, as it shows Hasbro have gone another year without passing on the difference in exchange rate over the last few years.

So comparing to US$ prices, and compensating for approximate tax-rate difference...

Deluxe
In America - US$12
Here - AU$24-30 (about US$25-31)
Difference - US$13-19 (over 100% extra here)

Voyager
In America - US$20
Here - AU$48-50 (about US$50-52)
Difference - US$28-30 (up to 150% extra here)

Bot Shots single pack
In America - US$4
Here - AU$7 (about US$7.50)
Difference - US$3.50 (almost 100% extra here)

Bot Shots Launcher pack
In America - US$8
Here - AU$17 (about US$18)
Difference - US$10 (over 100% extra here)


That's a lot of extra money going into Hasbro's pockets... and more reason not to buy locally this year. Buying locally at those mark-ups just gives them reason to justify it if we accept it.

This looks to be the first line that I'm not planning to buy any of it domestically. Importing is too cost-effective for me as a completist to not do it.

[Cyberwing]

Well it could be the probable landslide during DOTM, which left them not enough budget to either change the size of figures or the prices, or I'm completely off.
Either way I'll just stick to the reality of their 'vampire' powers.;)

[Hursticon]

Cheers for the heads-up KaRNiV8L PRiME, appreciated as always mate ;):cool:
I agree DD, that is a more palatable price on the Deluxes but the Voyagers are really no better than TRU :(; but I completely agree with Griffin and believe sending a message via our wallets to Hasbro AU is really essential if we're to try and get more comparable pricing - Educating the parental masses is what really needs to be done though. :o

[Golden Phoenix]

I am quite surprised by the price of the individual Box Shots. I would be pretty happy to pick one or 2 up for $7.
The deluxes are pretty good too.

I think we have to remember that we will never have the prices or prices anywhere close to what America has for many reasons.
We are a smaller market that is spread out. That means less product sold to a bigger area. That makes transport costs much higher. We also have much higher overheads (I am pretty sure the staff at Big W get paid much much more than the staff at the Big W equivalent in the US) and rent and insurance. Even though the price of the actual product has gone down, the price of everything else (transport, insurance, staff, rent and so on) has stayed the same (actually has gone up a bit due to inflation)

We also have to remember that a few years ago deluxes at Big W were a lot closer to the $26-30 price point. If we picked up a deluxe for $24 on sale we did pretty well. Now it is the standard and the on sale price is $18-20. So the prices for some figures have gone down. And even though some other figures (like voyagers) have not dropped down by as much, they also have not gone up with inflation either.

[griffin]

We are a smaller market that is spread out. That means less product sold to a bigger area. That makes transport costs much higher. We also have much higher overheads (I am pretty sure the staff at Big W get paid much much more than the staff at the Big W equivalent in the US) and rent and insurance. Even though the price of the actual product has gone down, the price of everything else (transport, insurance, staff, rent and so on) has stayed the same (actually has gone up a bit due to inflation)

We are indeed a smaller market... but America is about the same land-mass as us, so transport costs are comparable. And they have inflation and fuel-based cost increases comparable to us as well. But since Hasbro currently sells the toys to American retailers at 35-45% of the price they charge Australian retailers... the transport and inflation factors only affect the retail prices. If hypothetically, Hasbro sold the exact same product for the same (wholesale) price in the different countries, then we would be able to pin any retail price differences on non-Hasbro factors. But unless someone does something about it, Hasbro will keep charging Australian retailers MORE than the retail price in America (for the exact same product).

[griffin]

I was thinking that with all the factors in play, we need to visualise this, using the Deluxe Class as an example...

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/blog/182.jpg

Note though, that it isn't just Hasbro not passing on savings of the exchange rate - it is just easiest to show the cost breakdown of the Deluxe size-class.
And our Wholesale price has the added component of funneling commission to the American Companies, who are already getting profit from their own domestic sales to pay for R&D, staffing, shareholders and future projects.

But Retailers are parties to the "offence" of either being negligent in not chasing up savings (by doing research on what items should be costing them) or intentionally accepting the higher prices to keep the higher profit margin (the margin between wholesale and retail is often about 40%, so smaller wholesale/retail prices means smaller margin per unit).
I'd never expect these multi-national corporations to give us a fair deal with pricing, but looking at the cost breakdown above, can you see why I'm so passionately upset about how much we are being shafted here.

(I'll move these into a new topic, as my posts are taking this one off-topic)

[Golden Phoenix]

Where have you gotten the figures from? Also, where do you think the overhead costs fit into it?

[griffin]

Figures are from...

Retail prices are known.
Tax rates are known.
Wholesale price is either known (here from 2 years ago) or calculated (US, based on the fairly standard ratio distributors have as their RRP from their Wholesale price). I've imported as a wholesaler in the past, and have also seen domestic prices from various sources.

The wholesale price was only broken up into three components (actual cost to Hasbro at the Factory (blue), the cost for Hasbro to get the product from the Factory to each country (green), and profit from what they then sell them to the retailers for (yellow)) to show that the first two factors are the same for Australia and for America, leaving the variable I'm trying to highlight (Hasbro's profit per figure) as being the big difference between the two countries.
Hasbro are never going to come out and say exactly what the cost breakdown is, and I had to utilise figures revealed on that recent Hasbro Factory article (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12647) (which included a document (http://www.globallabourrights.org/admin/reports/files/Holidays-by-Hasbro.pdf) that showed us that the production cost to Hasbro at the factory is 20.14% of the RRP before tax in America). But since the total cost of the blue and green are essentially the same for US and Australia, the yellow blocks are the only variable... keeping in mind that the Yellow block had to be enough to cover "R&D, staffing, shareholders and future projects, etc", based on how cheaply we now know they produce the toys now in the factories.

Basically, we know enough of the factors to extrapolate approximate values and even eliminate elements claimed to be factors. But unless Hasbro comes out with official figures (which they wont), this is about as much as we know from what has been leaked or revealed.

If it was just a small margin of difference, I wouldn't be so obsessed about highlighting this. But we have years of Hasbro US getting rich off the weakening US$, by not passing on savings to non-US markets.

Can you think of any other cost elements that could make our prices so significantly higher than America? If I've missed some variable between the two countries, I'll fix up the figures.


(IMO though, theoretically it shouldn't be cheaper to express post the exact same items from the other side of the world, than what it costs here domestically... when we know that the unavoidable price factors aren't much different between the two countries)

[GoktimusPrime]

So it seems that $18 is the min. price that retailers ought to be charging? I feel a bit better now paying $15 for Deluxe DOTM Optimus Prime at Big W :) But of course, not so good for all the number of times I've paid $30 for so many other Deluxes. :/

$25 seems an okay price to pay - it's outside of that "cheapest retail" range and on the lower end of "high end retail". Big W's slated $23.88 RRP for TFP Deluxes doesn't seem too bad either considering (it would place it on the upper end of "cheapest retail"). I'd be curious to see how this comparison would look for Voyagers and Leaders as I suspect that it is in these larger classes that we're getting more seriously ripped.

[griffin]

Those $15 store exclusive Movie deluxes proved that non-US branches can have the US prices passed onto us fairly, but the mainline stuff is just too profitable to discount if consumers are willing to keep buying them.

And recent downsizing of the main size-classes makes it even more annoying, as it feels like we are paying more for less.

[griffin]

So it seems that $18 is the min. price that retailers ought to be charging? I feel a bit better now paying $15 for Deluxe DOTM Optimus Prime at Big W :) But of course, not so good for all the number of times I've paid $30 for so many other Deluxes. :/

$25 seems an okay price to pay - it's outside of that "cheapest retail" range and on the lower end of "high end retail". Big W's slated $23.88 RRP for TFP Deluxes doesn't seem too bad either considering (it would place it on the upper end of "cheapest retail"). I'd be curious to see how this comparison would look for Voyagers and Leaders as I suspect that it is in these larger classes that we're getting more seriously ripped.

Just like the other colour bars, the red and pink are not indicating price ranges, the end of each bar indicates a set figure... as in the cheapest price (AU$24 & US$12.50) and most expensive price (AU$30 & US$15).
The pink bar would effectively be "the retail price range" - so between $24 to $30 is what we get here.

[jazzcomp]

Should be more than $30 if you include DJ/Myer...

[Metallikato]

That's a lot of extra money going into Hasbro's pockets... and more reason not to buy locally this year. Buying locally at those mark-ups just gives them reason to justify it if we accept it.

This looks to be the first line that I'm not planning to buy any of it domestically. Importing is too cost-effective for me as a completist to not do it.

I agree with all the points you're making here. Not that I personally will be buying any TF's anyway but its the principle. This country is expensive enough without having companies pulling this sort of thing. I work for a manufacturer/exporter so we're struggling because of the high value of the dollar. Yet getting our component suppliers (who are obviously importers) to pass on the saving they're making is a struggle.

[Seraphim Prime]

I was thinking that with all the factors in play, we need to visualise this, using the Deluxe Class as an example...

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/blog/182.jpg


I think this looks about right, though I'd add in a little into Aust. distribution because (unless process has changed) the toys probably go to Hasbro US, to be distributed to the smaller representatives in each country.

I think it's interesting to note that one of Hasbro's reason's for cancelling the FE line in N. America was that it would be unprofitable for them to distribute at a small scale, and still deliver the prices that American consumers are used to paying, whereas in smaller markets (like Asia) it would be profitable to release a smaller number of figures at the price points they were expected to. It indicates that economies of scale do play a significant role in the choice of wholesale price, and hence end price to the Australian consumer.


Though all the complaining about retail price points remaining the same seems to belittle the work that seems to be done to get new price points (such as ROTF Devastator or DotM Ultimate Prime) released at a comparable price for the Australian market.

[UltraMarginal]

Another thing to consider in the factoring of the "wholesale" price in Australia is the horendous import duties that are applied to anything here. from personal experiance it can sometimes add 20% to 30% to the pre import value of a shipment.

High import duties are in place to encourage local manufacture, it sucks htough that it's applied to items that aren't ever going to be manufactured here for reasons outside the purpose of the tax to start with.

[drahsrebu]

not to mention the cost of staff in australian retail. we are amongst the highest paid in the world.

[griffin]

From UltraMarginal's comment about Tariffs/Duty, I had a look and Australia has 5%, while USA has 0% (for the category of toys that covers Transformers).

That does add to the difference between the two countries, but not by much. Of the $3-4 cost per unit, that adds a mere 15-20 cents.

And yes, the wage rates here are higher, but that's a factor after the wholesale price, which is the figure I'm wanting to highlighting here as being grossly unfair to us... and now that I've looked up the actual Customs rates, there really are no significant factors to justify the massively higher wholesale prices here. :(

[Sky Shadow]

I'm currently in the UK, where Transformers are also imported. I checked out some prices of what I could buy today. None of these are 'sale' prices:

Prime Powerizers (Voyager Prime and Megatron) are £22.99 - about $34.50AU.

Prime Deluxes are £12.99 - about $19.50AU.

Prime Cyberverse Commanders are £8.99 - about $13.50AU.

Prime Cyberverse Legions are £4.99 - about $7.50AU.

So if UK retailers can import these toys and sell them at a profit at the above prices, Aussies are being rorted. As we have known for many years.

[Doubledealer]

Rorted indeed...It's getting to the point where you'll walk into a store only to have a Hasbro goon tazer you in the nads for simply looking at a Transformer. The goon then proceeds to take your wallet and any other valuables as you lie on the floor shaking, the only words you can manage are "Da-a-a-a-am-n y-o-u-u H-a-a-a-a-a-s-s-s-b-r-o"

[5FDP]

I haven't bought a Transformers toy from a store in ages, and I don't intend to either with these ridiculous prices. It seems to be getting worse too with the current prices of voyagers.

[Accel]

do we have the prices for each size class from now back through to Armada to compare the last 10 years?

[griffin]

Demonac found this topic on another Australian fan-forum (http://aussielegofans.forummotion.com/t707-prices-of-lego-in-australia), showing that it isn't just Hasbro or Transformers - this is an epidemic of the toy industry by the major toy companies profiteering off the exchange rate. But it seems there is no way to force a correction, as toys aren't seen as important enough for people to know or care about their value.

[Hursticon]

But it seems there is no way to force a correction, as toys aren't seen as important enough for people to know or care about their value.

But evidently, not unimportant enough to bolster up prices to supposedly cover store rent and employee wages... I'm sorry but I simply don't buy that excuse; if retailers are using 'low priority' items to cover such supposed costs then no wonder they're finding it hard to do business these days. :rolleyes:

[Paulbot]

do we have the prices for each size class from now back through to Armada to compare the last 10 years?

Yes, Griffin's archive (http://www.otca.com.au/archive1.html#tfa) includes prices. Over the last 10 years the price for the deluxe price point has stayed around the same.

[kristofferrer]

YES!!!!
THIS HELPS ME SO MUCH HEHEHE.




I'm currently in the UK, where Transformers are also imported. I checked out some prices of what I could buy today. None of these are 'sale' prices:

Prime Powerizers (Voyager Prime and Megatron) are £22.99 - about $34.50AU.

Prime Deluxes are £12.99 - about $19.50AU.

Prime Cyberverse Commanders are £8.99 - about $13.50AU.

Prime Cyberverse Legions are £4.99 - about $7.50AU.

So if UK retailers can import these toys and sell them at a profit at the above prices, Aussies are being rorted. As we have known for many years.

[griffin]

I modified the image in the first post to make it less targeting of Hasbro, and more general of the American owned toy companies in this country... in case it ends up being posted elsewhere.
It also clears up a few vague elements.

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/blog/182.jpg

Now that Toyfair is over, I might risk probing some of our major retailers if they ever question this widening gap, as they know about the improving exchange rate with all their other departments in-store offering cheaper imported items. And if they are aware, I'd be interested in seeing why they don't parallel import toys (including Transformers) because if us collectors are able to import Toys from foreign sources at their retail with express post, and still be cheaper than domestic prices here, then imagine how cheap a big chain store could sell them for here if importing from a wholesaler or even from Hasbro America through their own American Buyers.
Just looking at the Deluxes in the chart above, they'd be buying them for half as much as they are here, and even if they sent them over cheap by boat, I'd wait the extra month to pay what Americans are paying, at our retailers. (and we often wait more than that here anyway)

I noticed from this recent article (http://cornwalls.com.au/sharing-knowledge/legal-updates/australia%E2%80%99s-current-position-on-parallel-importing-%E2%80%98proceed-with-caution%E2%80%99.aspx), that aside from books, the only real restriction on parallel importing (as in, obtaining stock from a cheaper FOREIGN source than the official DOMESTIC distributor), is items that are trademark items that are produced in that other country exclusively for that other country. In other words, since the cheaper American Transformers have Australia, NZ, Canada AND USA listed on the packaging, we are one of the "exclusive" countries those products are allowed to be imported & sold in. (making it difficult for Hasbro to block parallel importing of the exact same product that they import themselves)

[kristofferrer]

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/blog/182.jpg



This really annoys me.



http://newspaper.li/static/b48177e17b2c20a9d3f2654710b1c7de.jpg

[Seraphim Prime]

Just a couple of notes I thought I'd add to the discussion.


1.
Let's assume 3% inflation each year (the Reserve Bank's stated target). Using compound interest, we can calculate what TF prices would be if Hasbro simply raised prices in line with inflation.

For those not familiar, the compound interest formula is

F = I x (1 + r)^n where

F = Final price
I = Initial price
r = rate of interest
n = number of periods (in this case years)

I'm using Armada prices as a starting point (as the classes haven't changed significantly since), which means using 10 years of interest, means

F = I x 1.344

Price ranges (using inflation):
Size Price (2002) Price (2012)
Scout/Minicon $13.50-$17.99 $18.14-$24.17
Deluxe $21.50-$29.99 $28.89-$40.30
Mega $40.00-$49.99 $53.76-$67.18
Ultra $54.76-$60.00 $73.59-$80.63
Super $89.84-$115.00 $120.73-$154.55
Supreme $113.00-$160.00 $151.86-$215.03

Using these figures we can see that that Transformer prices have gone done at least in terms of real money - ie: I spend a lower proportion of my income to buy a Transformer figure than I would have had to 10 years ago. This is despite American prices rising (more or less) in line with inflation as seen at the bottom of this page (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_class#Armada).

2.
The second point to make is that it is not normal for our dollar to hold parity with the US dollar (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_dollar) and here (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/historical/AD/1985/0/continuous.html)). The historic position of our dollar has been between 60-80c US, and is only high at the moment because of our currently booming mining sector, and the protection measures that were put in place during the first GFC that meant that the Reserve Bank didn't have to drop interest rates to 0% as other countries had to do. This has put us in an enviable position for the last 4 years, which will not necessarily continue into the long term.

Australian toy wholesalers are then in the hard position of setting their prices with current parity in mind, or do they think long term and set prices more in line with expected future exchange rates in order to avoid a large price shock when our exchange rate drops from parity and returns to it's historic value range.


Summary for those who don't want to read all that:

1. Transformers have actually fallen in price in Australia in terms of real money, while the real money price in US has remained the same.
2. Aussie Dollar parity is not the norm and to set prices in line with short term parity potentially hurts retailers/wholesalers/distributors in the long term.


Which is not to say that more couldn't be done, I'm saying that it's not as simple as Hasbro/retailers/wholesalers are getting more money for the same work and that a short term benefit could lead to mid to long term hurt.

[griffin]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with both points, as they've been taken into account over the years.

However...
1 - The American retail price hasn't moved either, despite inflation and resources increasing in cost. To offset those costs, Hasbro have been reducing the size of the toys (which we saw during DotM and Prime). So the product itself has been downsized to offset inflation and higher production costs, so that the American retail price didn't need to be raised. If Hasbro have made sure that the product remained the same cost to produce and sell to American retailers, then it would apply to us as well. (Essentially, they have frozen the wholesale price in recent years, so inflation & production cost increases are not a factor in this - until their US wholesale/retail price increases)

2 - Hasbro raised prices easily when the exchange rate was dropping, but not as easily when it was improving. Hasbro aren't stuck with set prices beyond the 6 months after Toyfair (they give retailers pre-order prices, and probably guarantee prices when they make additional orders when restocking). Prices can be adjusted with any shipment from China really, as Australian distributors have to pay for the stock from their American "owners". After all, that's what every other Australian importer does - price their shipments according to what each imported shipment cost them.
The "hedging their bets" excuse is indeed one given by Australian toy distributors (saying that they need to be able to cover themselves if the exchange rate suddenly moves), but they've always had a "safety margin" - it's just been blowing out to a massive margin in the last few years. And how much should they be hedging their bets by before they do start adjusting prices... 20%, 30%, 40%? Because they have been making a lot of extra profit in the last 5-10 years with their US$0.50 exchange rate pricing, with no intention of letting go of the "cash cow" that is our strong Aussie Dollar. A dollar is expected to stay above or close to parity for at least a few years.

[Prowl]

Australian toy wholesalers are then in the hard position of setting their prices with current parity in mind, or do they think long term and set prices more in line with expected future exchange rates in order to avoid a large price shock when our exchange rate drops from parity and returns to it's historic value range.

I can say that working in commercial contracts & having a discussion with a prospective client doing a 3+1+1 contract (3 year deal with 2 x 1 year options) the subject of fixed term pricing came up.

This is not uncommon & believe it or not the retailers in this situation actually have a lot more power than Hasbro. Hasbro needs them they do not need Hasbro.

When this subject of fixed term pricing comes up & I deal in what is known as volitile products which are product relying on the AU vs US$ or on global oil prices etc you have two options available.

The first is to provide low pricing based on the current health of the $ & establish a clause allowing you to increase pricing based on formal letters of increase from manufacturers & also factor in a CPI based annual increase.

The second is to fix the pricing for the length of the contract. To do so you need to calculate the possibility of cost increases & set your pricing accordingly. Real world you would need to factor in at least 4% & usually 5% to offset the increases. This excludes transportation costs which cover enormous distances in Australia per item compared to Europe & America.

Large retailers like Kmart/TRU/Big W etc would push for fixed term pricing. That way they hedge their bets & can guarentee what their buy price & sell price is for a certain fixed period. This also can work against you if the AU $ goes beyond expectations. Hasbro if they are in a fixed price agreement is under no obligation to pass on any savings obtained by them to the retailer.

Say an agreement was signed in June 2009 when the $ was at $0.80 US & that was for 3 years with options then it is possible that any savings could never be passed on until 2012 at best & maybe 2014. Thsi is a huge factor as to why retail priced have been stable.

Imagine if the dollar dropped to $0.60 US I bet we would all be grateful for the fixed pricing terms then. Swings & roundabouts I am afraid & retailers need to have fixed pricing wherever possible to report to their stakeholders with clarity on their performance expectations.

Just my $0.02 of course but there is a lot more than just what we perceive as corporate greed.

I may also be wrong & if retailers have gone for variable pricing them then need to exercise their muscle to force cost reductions. I do deal with several major retailers in my job & fixed pricing periods have killed my profitability when I cannot pass on price increases.

[griffin]

I'll ask about fixed pricing, to see if it is a factor. I know that the annual Toyfair would limit it to 12 months maximum, but the retailer order forms usually only go as far as September (last time I saw one)... and even if their price was set for the remainder of the 12 month cycle, the next Toyfair gives them new prices. (if they choose to adjust prices on product lines that are ongoing)

[Seraphim Prime]

Imagine if the dollar dropped to $0.60 US I bet we would all be grateful for the fixed pricing terms then. Swings & roundabouts I am afraid & retailers need to have fixed pricing wherever possible to report to their stakeholders with clarity on their performance expectations.

Just my $0.02 of course but there is a lot more than just what we perceive as corporate greed.


A point I've been trying to make, yet said so much more eloquently. :)

I remember looking at Armada TFs at BBTS back when the AUD was about 54c to the dollar. Definately pushed you towards the local market. :)

[Prowl]

I'll ask about fixed pricing, to see if it is a factor. I know that the annual Toyfair would limit it to 12 months maximum, but the retailer order forms usually only go as far as September (last time I saw one)... and even if their price was set for the remainder of the 12 month cycle, the next Toyfair gives them new prices. (if they choose to adjust prices on product lines that are ongoing)

I would be interested in if the buyers have fixed terms for 12 month periods or shoot for a longer term deal such as over 3 years. I can assure you that when the dollar dipped so badly retailers in general crapped their pants & would have pushed for extended fixed pricing terms. This would be why we have the current situation & Hasbro would have gone in with a worst case scenario to ensure X% profitability.

As I previously said Hasbro are under no obligation (if this is the case) to pass on ANY price reductions if the contract stipulates fixed pricing & periods. Think of it like this guys. The stores gambled with their expectations & lost heavily the last 18 months for their gamble. If I was in their situation I would have done the exact same thing & anyone who didn't should have lost their job.

If the dollar nosedived back to $0.60 again we as consumers would be buffered from the majority of that impact through the retailers FPA's.

I understand that the major retailers are doing it incredibly tough in the marketplace right now & online sales are hurting them worse than you can imagine. I am working on a very large packaging contract with one major retailer currently as they are looking to attack the online sector head on.

I did advise them as a consumer that their pricing had better offer an incentive for me to not buy either in person at a physical store or online O/S. The point of this is that retailers are sitting up & taking notice of market trends.

The thing is that we need to remember is that smaller nice traders like RK or BBTS are akin to a small speedboat who can turn on a dime & adapt much faster to a lumbering titanic retailer who take time & more importantly have stakeholders they need to justify the expense of opening online portals for clients to utilise.


A point I've been trying to make, yet said so much more eloquently. :)

I remember looking at Armada TFs at BBTS back when the AUD was about 54c to the dollar. Definately pushed you towards the local market. :)

Exactly mate. I am no rocket scientist but due to my job I feel that I can add a reasonable explanation without resorting to hysteria & unfounded accusations (not saying that anyone is doing so here mind you). the simple fact is I believe that rather than a conspiracy between retailers & Hasbro this is just the way it has worked out due to contracts. I am not privy to their contract stipulations but I have worked on plenty of large contracts in my time to know how it works & reatailers especially must minimise risk & financial exposure.

[griffin]

Prices went up quickly when our dollar weakened and hit US$0.50... but prices never came back down, unlike everything else that gets imported.

The American owned toy companies were quick to raise prices to offset a weaker Aussie dollar, so I don't see how they can be locked into lengthy price periods, or justify resisting cheaper prices. After all, if they can easily go one way, there's no reason why they can't just as quickly go the other way.

At the end of the day, if Hasbro can reduce the size and paint apps of toys to offset inflation and keep size-classes priced the same over several years in America, then a 40% increase in the Aussie Dollar in the last 5 years demands answers if our prices don't get significantly cheaper. And my question to them is, why is it hard to believe that we shouldn't be seeing close to a 40% improvement in our prices, if Hasbro already had a price buffer when we were at US$0.50...

[Prowl]

Prices went up quickly when our dollar weakened and hit US$0.50... but prices never came back down, unlike everything else that gets imported.

The American owned toy companies were quick to raise prices to offset a weaker Aussie dollar, so I don't see how they can be locked into lengthy price periods, or justify resisting cheaper prices. After all, if they can easily go one way, there's no reason why they can't just as quickly go the other way.

At the end of the day, if Hasbro can reduce the size and paint apps of toys to offset inflation and keep size-classes priced the same over several years in America, then a 40% increase in the Aussie Dollar in the last 5 years demands answers if our prices don't get significantly cheaper. And my question to them is, why is it hard to believe that we shouldn't be seeing close to a 40% improvement in our prices, if Hasbro already had a price buffer when we were at US$0.50...

I don't disagree Griff. Far from it & the point you make is valid. Nothing would surprise me but the way I am reading it & I may be very wrong indeed but if a 3 year agreement was signed during the period when the AU$ was very low that would explain a lot.

If not then the buyers for the retailers need to take the hard stance of playing hardball with Hasbro on this. If Myer, DJ's, Big W, Kmart. Target & TRU all threatened to remove Hasbro product from their shelves unless they passed on genuine price reductions Hasbro would find itself in a very dangerous position.

As you said answers are required & it is interesting that the retail prices are all pretty similar even if though the retailers would all have different contract dates & lengths.

I also suspect that there is a bunch of resale price maintenence transpiring between Hasbro & their distributors.

[Trent]

This price disparity is not just in toys. It is on most things we import. Take cars, a good example is a WRX. Here they are ~$41K drive away. The EXACT same model in the US is $25K drive away. And remember that these cars are manufactured in Japan, so shipping distances are relatively equal.

Remember that the USA is is a SUBSTANTIALLY bigger market than Australia, with historically low prices for a lot of goods sold there. Thus have a lot more purchasing power and goods are priced lower to keep them selling.

And while you see ACA and Gerry Harvey crapping on about how badly retailers are doing because everyone is buying online from overseas, its not nearly as big an issue as they would have you believe. Most people would still be buying their kids transformers toys from kmart/bigW without it even occuring to them to look online/overseas for a cheaper price.

my 2 cents

[griffin]

I may be very wrong indeed but if a 3 year agreement was signed during the period when the AU$ was very low that would explain a lot.
....if though the retailers would all have different contract dates & lengths.

I also suspect that there is a bunch of resale price maintenence transpiring between Hasbro & their distributors.


Other retail departments may well have prices locked in for lengthy periods that you have mentioned (I wouldn't know, so yield to those who have experience in that), but since the Toy industry has the ANNUAL toy fair, and sign up retailers to pre-orders every year, their prices would only be fixed for a maximum of 12 months.

And Hasbro distribute direct to the major retailers, so there's no middleman to add any extra expense. The wholesale prices I've seen at Toy Fair (which are more than double the wholesale prices in America) is what is in question anyway... something that shouldn't be happening unless our exchange rate was close to half the US$. (which is hasn't been since July 2002)

The added factor here is that when you have a foreign owned company (like those car companies mentioned in the post above), a commission goes to the head office in that other country... problem with Toys though (and some other industries) is that they have been getting greedy with the massive exchange-rate shift, by doubling the US$ value of our toys, just to make extra money for their American Companies, essentially for nothing (because the foreign countries/branches are doing all the work to sell those products).
Based on the price differences, it appears that a Deluxe sized figure sold in America makes Hasbro America about $2-3 per toy (the yellow bar in my graph)...
BUT, a Deluxe sized figure sold in Australia is making Hasbro America about $7-8 commission - and that's if you give the local branch a healthy profit of about $4 per figure (from the yellow bar). Hasbro America are making a lot more per toy in Commission when sold here than they do from figures they sell in America (at our expense), and make more per unit than the local branch do despite them doing the work selling the stuff here.
Sure, give the Head Office a commission to cover their R&D costs, but not at such a huge margin that ends up making it cheaper to import the product.


I guess with so many figures, factors and variables, it makes it easy for Businesses to price however they want, and confuse the consumers enough to not have to be competitive.
My gripe just comes from watching prices and exchange rates since I started this community 16 years ago... we hit a low of US$0.50 on the exchange rate in 2002 and toy prices went up a lot in a hurry. We've now been at or above parity for the last 12 months - the value of those products have now halved in that time and someone is making all that extra money, because it isn't being reflected by the prices in the stores.

[Seraphim Prime]

Adding in UltraMarginal's point from the News threads, as it holds value for this discussion.


I never put much stock in these sorts of listings as they are often fuelled by popularity or promotional advertising in some way.

Regarding Hasbro's pricing structure though. I have noticed in the podcasts I listen to that deluxe pricing in the US has gone up with prices approaching $15 now in some cases. while at the same time, if you shop carefully here you can deluxes for as little as $23 which while it's not equivalent it's much better than 5 years ago when a deluxe was $8 to $10 in the US and $28 - $30 here.
Keeping in mind the horendous import duties here and the scale differences in the two markets, it's not as bad as it could be. I think we have seen a change in the retail prices here, especially with the Deluxe toys. Whether that's a reflection of a change in Hasbro's wholesale prices or something else is anyone's guess.

Either way, I'd recommend against putting too much stock in a report by a company who's business is to create lists to be included in media to make it sell better so the advertising in the media is worth more.:rolleyes:


US prices have been increasing much more, relative to the increases we have recieved over hear. Looking long term, we have had a (roughly) 15% increase in TF prices in the last 10 years, whereas US pricing has increased by (again roughly) 30%. So we are seeing some savings passed on to us.

I really only began collecting with RID, and more intensively with Armada/Energon, but do not feel that (speaking in the long term) that the extra $4-5 that we are being asked to spend per figure is too much.


Speaking outside of direct price V exchange rate comparisons, there is also an economic argument for the higher prices we see.

The Australian market is smaller than the US market. Therefore we receive less toys. Economics of scale indicates that there are certain overheads that need to be paid no matter the size of the order. Therefore smaller batches recieve higher costs per item than larger batches would. In the case of shipping, each shipment to Australia would have similar costs to shipments to the US, however this needs to be spread over fewer figures - effectively an extra 50c or dollar per figure.

Economics of scale also then affect the wholesale price, in that a project will require a minimum turnover to be viable. The US buys many more TF figures, so it's viable to sell them at a much lower price. The AU market does not buy as many figures, so it's not viable to sell the figures to the Australian market at the same price as they are sold to the US market.

I'm not necessarily supporting the practise but, like Prowl, I'm simply trying to show that there is a lot more at play than what we perceive as corporate greed.

[Deonasis]

This is a great thread guys and it should be stickied.

[5FDP]

After all the attention with the US Toyfair, and the Titans being of no interest to older fans, I can wait until BotCon now to buy these things for half the price of here.

It's disgusting how much extra we have to pay for things just because of our location. It was in the news this morning that we actually pay 40% more for Vegemite in Oz than what the Brits do (http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/vegemite-is-cheaper-overseas-than-in-australia/story-fnagkbpv-1226576999305) (among other things) :mad:

[Mythirax]

It's disgusting how much extra we have to pay for things just because of our location. It was in the news this morning that we actually pay 40% more for Vegemite in Oz than what the Brits do (http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/vegemite-is-cheaper-overseas-than-in-australia/story-fnagkbpv-1226576999305) (among other things) :mad:

That is depressing.

[DELTAprime]

That is depressing.

If you know a little about economics the prices we pay are not that bad (and you don't need to be a numbers guy to understand it).

There are a few problems we have that stop things being as cheap here as they are in America.

Yes you can buy a figure and have it sent to you from America for less than picking it up locally, but that doesn't mean the local price isn't fair when you consider the economic factors.

[Mythirax]

If you know a little about economics the prices we pay are not that bad (and you don't need to be a numbers guy to understand it).

There are a few problems we have that stop things being as cheap here as they are in America.

Yes you can buy a figure and have it sent to you from America for less than picking it up locally, but that doesn't mean the local price isn't fair when you consider the economic factors.

What I said was based purely on the good ol' Vegemite. I can eat it by the spoon, I love my Vegemite :D

[griffin]

If you know a little about economics the prices we pay are not that bad (and you don't need to be a numbers guy to understand it).

There are a few problems we have that stop things being as cheap here as they are in America.

Yes you can buy a figure and have it sent to you from America for less than picking it up locally, but that doesn't mean the local price isn't fair when you consider the economic factors.

Actually it is unfair pricing... because it isn't local factors making the toys so expensive here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=288472#post288472) (like other items that are more expensive here).

The toys come into the country and sold to retailers at twice the price BEFORE local factors come into play (retailers, labour, taxes), so that Hasbro America gets their commission, which is more than they make per unit on items sold in America.

[DELTAprime]

Actually it is unfair pricing... because it isn't local factors making the toys so expensive here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=288472#post288472) (like other items that are more expensive here).

I question your figures.

A huge factor is the Minimum Wage here. We get paid around 2.5x what they get paid in the US. Hasbro has to pay it's employees a substantial amount more to work here in Australia not to mention the retailers huge wages. We don't have the economy of scale that America does either. Not to mention increased transport cost (those truckers don't work for free).

Over all thanks to our wage vs the cost of an item we have a much higher standard of living than America.

Also while I have no issue with people buying lines like MP and Generations from overseas (which is what I do) since they don't get released here at all. But if your going to buy a toy that has been released here don't get it from America or HK, buy it locally and keep an Australian in a job.

[griffin]

Since this topic rears its head from time to time, about the myth of toys (and other products) needing to cost more here, this was the proof I posted before (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=386536#post386536) that Importers like Hasbro, Lego and Mattel can not justify selling their products to Retailers at twice what they sell to US retailers (because all the factors are the same for both countries before the Wholesale price - which is double here)...


Comparing Minimum wages isn't indicative of the two general socio-economic standards of the two countries... especially when many of the minimum wage jobs over there don't take into account tips/gratuities that many employers take into account when paying their employees.
A better comparison would be the average wage of both countries (or the Median - which is total earnings divided by the population, so that it takes into account low income, average income, and high income earners... because "luxury" items like collector figures aren't going to be bought by many/any of the lowest income earners, making it moot comparing minimum wages of both countries).

In about 2007/2008 the Median in America was about US$54,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_US_household_income.png).
At the same time, the Median in Australia was about US$44,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income_in_Australia_and_New_Zeala nd).
(this figure apparently takes into account exchange rate fluctuation... because our average in AU$ was about $66,000, which is still only a little more than the figure in America... if our dollars had actually been of equal value)

And that's only as high as it is, due to the number of people in Australia earning massive money from the Mining Boom... throwing out the average in the last 15 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ABS-5220.0-AustralianNationalAccounts-StateAccounts-HouseholdIncomeAccountPerCapitaAustralia-CurrentPrices-TotalGrossIncomePerCapita-A2335031A.svg)
(while the American average has been pretty flat for the last 7 years (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-wages.png?s=australiawag&d1=20020101&d2=20131231&URL2=/united-states/wages&type=line&title=AUSTRALIA%20WAGES%20%7C%20%20UNITED%20STATES %20WAGES))

If that Boom hadn't happened, we'd still be significantly lower than the Average American wage (which is more indicative to the average standard of living), and it's mostly the average consumer who buys toys... because it isn't a necessity like food, clothing or accommodation that the minimum wage-earner is often only able to afford.


Still... ignoring the statistics above that disprove the suggestion that we should have higher prices, due to the myth of us having 2.5 times the living standard than America, it doesn't justify the "Australia Tax" that companies like Hasbro apply to foreign items - that doubles the price of items for us (consumers), when it doesn't cost them double to import them... particularly during a time when the exchange rate was at, or near, parity in recent years
As you can see Minimum wage is not a fair comparison tool if the average American earns more than the average Australian.
And, transport... that's not a factor until after Hasbro (and others) set their Wholesale price, which is more than double for things like Deluxes, but is close to exact with the high-end items.
That's why our more expensive items (like Metroplex, Masterpieces and Platinums) are often 80-150% of US Retail prices... but the smaller items like Deluxes are 250% above US Retail.

If the factors of Wages and Transport and standard of living were indeed a factor, all the size classes would be the same percentage increase over the American prices... but if you look at our Checklist or sightings section, you'd see that the margin goes from 80-250% of what Americans pay.
That's manipulation by the importers, and that's why Toys and electronics and software haven't gone down as much as all the other cheap Chinese-made stuff at Department stores when our Dollar went above 1 US dollar.
Take a wander around Kmart or BigW at all the dirt cheap Chinese clothes and kitchenware, and garden products, food, and even Generic brand toys... that's because the Importers CAN sell stuff cheap here if they want to, but in the case of the Foreign Owned Toy companies like Hasbro, Mattel and Lego (along with the software and computer companies), they keep the prices up because it's a monopoly that they want to exploit. Most toys are impulse buys by parents and kids at the stores... we might know how cheap they should be, but most don't, so they don't question it, or shop online like we do.

[DELTAprime]

The minimum wage is fair, medium is not you are comparing what a person can actually earn to a statistic.

Also the cost of a Deluxe here in Australia when I started collecting in 2007 was $27.99, it's now $25. The cost in America over the same time has risen from $10 to $13 despite the fact we have higher inflation in Australia. Thats right the price has dropped hear and risen in America, how is that unfair?

[griffin]

The minimum wage is fair, medium is not you are comparing what a person can actually earn to a statistic.


Scientific statistics are the only way we can get objective comparisons, without being misguided by personal experience or opinion.
Minimum wage people in either country are less likely to buy "unnecessary" items like collectable toys. And the minimum wage statistics for America aren't accurate, because the people on those wages earn tips to make up the difference, and those are rarely declared (for tax or statistical purposes). This is why they have recommended tipping rates (of about 15%) to make up for the low "minimum wage" rate. Since our minimum wage earners don't get tips, it is impossible to compare the real (actual) earnings of our minimum earners to American minimum earners.


Inflation isn't a factor because it applies to America as well (hence the 30% increase in Deluxe pricing in the last 10 years).

And most stores here have maintained the same price during the last 10 years ($25-30 for a Deluxe is what it was since Beast Machines came here while our Dollar was at it's worst). Hasbro raised our prices when the Dollar weakened (Deluxes went from $20 in Beast Wars to $30 in Beast Machines & RiD) while the US price of the Deluxes stayed the same during that time... but when our Dollar strengthened, did we see an improvement in our prices? Nup. The Wholesale price stayed at AU$17-18 for Deluxes (depending on the store chain and how many they bought), so stores like Kmart and BigW did compete with each other about 3 years ago and got as low as $23-24, but not because the wholesale price dropped... while stores like Toyworld, TRU and Myer have stayed at $30 since 2001 (http://www.otca.com.au/archive1.html).

The cost to Hasbro Australia dropped by half during the last 10 years, due to the exchange rate going from US50 cents to US$1.10... so factoring in the inflation of 30% that American Deluxe prices have seen during that time, Hasbro Australia have only passed on 30% of the 100% increase in profit margin that they made in the last 10 years.
Still fair?

(this is why I keep records of all the prices reported (http://www.otca.com.au/archive1.html) ever since Ozformers started in 1996, and archive the current prices for reference (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=15680) (even have the occasional wholesale prices from Hasbro too)... so that I can enlighten the newer fans on how much we've been cheated in Australia all these years)

[DELTAprime]

Scientific statistics are the only way we can get objective comparisons, without being misguided by personal experience or opinion.
Minimum wage people in either country are less likely to buy "unnecessary" items like collectable toys. And the minimum wage statistics for America aren't accurate, because the people on those wages earn tips to make up the difference, and those are rarely declared (for tax or statistical purposes). This is why they have recommended tipping rates (of about 15%) to make up for the low "minimum wage" rate. Since our minimum wage earners don't get tips, it is impossible to compare the real (actual) earnings of our minimum earners to American minimum earners.


Inflation isn't a factor because it applies to America as well (hence the 30% increase in Deluxe pricing in the last 10 years).

And most stores here have maintained the same price during the last 10 years ($25-30 for a Deluxe is what it was since Beast Machines came here while our Dollar was at it's worst). Hasbro raised our prices when the Dollar weakened (Deluxes went from $20 in Beast Wars to $30 in Beast Machines & RiD) while the US price of the Deluxes stayed the same during that time... but when our Dollar strengthened, did we see an improvement in our prices? Nup. The Wholesale price stayed at AU$17-18 for Deluxes (depending on the store chain and how many they bought), so stores like Kmart and BigW did compete with each other about 3 years ago and got as low as $23-24, but not because the wholesale price dropped... while stores like Toyworld, TRU and Myer have stayed at $30 since 2001 (http://www.otca.com.au/archive1.html).

The cost to Hasbro Australia dropped by half during the last 10 years, due to the exchange rate going from US50 cents to US$1.10... so factoring in the inflation of 30% that American Deluxe prices have seen during that time, Hasbro Australia have only passed on 30% of the 100% increase in profit margin that they made in the last 10 years.
Still fair?

(this is why I keep records of all the prices reported (http://www.otca.com.au/archive1.html) ever since Ozformers started in 1996, and archive the current prices for reference (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=15680) (even have the occasional wholesale prices from Hasbro too)... so that I can enlighten the newer fans on how much we've been cheated in Australia all these years)

I still think you are completely wrong, but... For me forums are about fun discussions and questions not arguments so I'm going to leave it here.:cool:

[griffin]

I don't mind being wrong, and do appreciate being pointed to evidence of it, so that I can then update and archive my records to these sorts of commonly asked about things.
And if I am wrong, I don't want to look like an idiot if there is something obvious out there that I'm missing... especially after 16 years of tracking our prices and finding out as much as I can about every step in the whole design-to-purchase life cycle of our beloved Transformers. :)

[SMHFConvoy]

Okay I'm seeing the words, "retail", "huge" and "wages" being thrown around.

I work in retail as a visual merchandiser and my pay has only just gone up to $19 an hour and I only get 25 hours a week. So stop quoting Mr Abbott and Hockey's falsehoods about a wages blow out.

[DELTAprime]

Okay I'm seeing the words, "retail", "huge" and "wages" being thrown around.

I work in retail as a visual merchandiser and my pay has only just gone up to $19 an hour and I only get 25 hours a week. So stop quoting Mr Abbott and Hockey's falsehoods about a wages blow out.

Alright a little background then I don't want to hear about it anymore.

I'm not quoting any politicians, I hate them all and I don't even watch the news so I don't know what those idiots say. It's my knowledge from listing to people like economist Michael Pachter and my OWN experience working in retail since I graduated High School 13 year ago that I'm speaking from. I've done management so I've seen what wages are really like and they are ridiculous.

My first job was in Produce at a supermarket and where i got most of my management experience. We took in $8000 at the register per week sometimes $10000, to run the department well wages were around $4000 a week even using jr.'s after school instead of older workers. So thats half an average weeks income from the department used on wages if you staff to keep the place full at all times which most supermarkets don't anymore because of wages. Out of the rest you still have to pay the farmer, delivery, rent on crates and pallets and some of front counter wages.

These days I refuse to do anything to do with management. I'm happiest just serving customers. I know it's frustrating to look at an item and know it cost less in other countries but just because the exchange rate is around $0.80 to $1 doesn't mean that an item thats $10 in America should cost $12 on our shelves. Bottom line is if you want a $13 +GST deluxe class toy in Australia you have to lower cost to the stores first.

[griffin]

I can relate to that.
The last (warehouse) job I was at was what I considered "overpaid" for what we did, and most people were earning more than the junior managers... but a change of management 4-5 years ago, has led to pay rates dropping. Not just freezing, but actually going down, because of the manipulation of our minimum productivity rates.
I went down from mid 80 thousand to mid 60 thousand during that time, but still doing the same rate of work.
Politicians are making it worse, too busy fighting each other instead of fighting FOR us. :(
As such, the we do indeed have some high wages in Australia, but the gap between the wages of those industries and others is widening, while the costs of living keep going up faster than the lower paid people are earning.


As for the comparative costs here to America, last year one of the Members here got their hands on the wholesale price listing by Hasbro. The Deluxe class wholesale price is AU$18.50 (about US$16.65)... that's means Hasbro Australia are charging our Retailers MORE than what they cost at the stores in America.
So before the variable factors come into play (tax, transport, wages), American retailers pay about US$8 for a Deluxe (giving Hasbro America a little under $4 profit per unit), while our retailers pay US$16.65 for a Deluxe (giving Hasbro Australia about $12 profit per unit - and most of that goes back to Hasbro America, which is why their quarterly statements show a huge international revenue profit AFTER the local branches have covered their costs and profit).

[Mythirax]

I went down from mid 80 thousand to mid 60 thousand during that time, but still doing the same rate of work.

That sucks man. Hate hearing those sort of things, especially when you have to do the exact same work. Just isn't fair.

[DELTAprime]

As for the comparative costs here to America, last year one of the Members here got their hands on the wholesale price listing by Hasbro. The Deluxe class wholesale price is AU$18.50 (about US$16.65)... that's means Hasbro Australia are charging our Retailers MORE than what they cost at the stores in America.
So before the variable factors come into play (tax, transport, wages), American retailers pay about US$8 for a Deluxe (giving Hasbro America a little under $4 profit per unit), while our retailers pay US$16.65 for a Deluxe (giving Hasbro Australia about $12 profit per unit - and most of that goes back to Hasbro America, which is why their quarterly statements show a huge international revenue profit AFTER the local branches have covered their costs and profit).

OK Griff, that adds a new wrinkle to the argument. A well known problem they have in America is Walmart and to lesser extent Amazon's predatory practices where all they care about is their profit, not their suppliers viability. Walmart is well known to squeeze suppliers like Hasbro so much that they can't make a profit. The supplier then can choose not to do business with Walmart which is very bad idea with how huge Walmart is, or they can take what little cash Walmart will offer for their product. Unfortunately they can't then goto Target, Kmart or TRU and say "we will sell the item to you for $4 more than we sell to Walmart". That won't fly either.

Basically if those figures are accurate then Hasbro is undercharging America and really should be charging them something similar to our prices just to make a profit. May I suggest adding to your article on pricing in AU vs US some language that points out that thanks to Walmart squeezing it's suppliers Hasbro may well be undercharging its American customers and not necessarily over charging us.

Do a Google search for "walmart forces suppliers to lower prices" for references.

[Trent]

OK Griff, that adds a new wrinkle to the argument. A well known problem they have in America is Walmart and to lesser extent Amazon's predatory practices where all they care about is their profit, not their suppliers viability. Walmart is well known to squeeze suppliers like Hasbro so much that they can't make a profit. The supplier then can choose not to do business with Walmart which is very bad idea with how huge Walmart is, or they can take what little cash Walmart will offer for their product. Unfortunately they can't then goto Target, Kmart or TRU and say "we will sell the item to you for $4 more than we sell to Walmart". That won't fly either.

Basically if those figures are accurate then Hasbro is undercharging America and really should be charging them something similar to our prices just to make a profit. May I suggest adding to your article on pricing in AU vs US some language that points out that thanks to Walmart squeezing it's suppliers Hasbro may well be undercharging its American customers and not necessarily over charging us.

Do a Google search for "walmart forces suppliers to lower prices" for references.

It's not just toys that face this issue in Australia. Why do you think that we just held an enquiry into software prices where Adobe and Apple were forced to justify at an enquiry why Australians pay up to twice as much for digital downloads of their content? Gues what? They couldn't (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/evasive-microsoft-adobe-fail-to-justify-prices-20130322-2gjkr.html)!! Shock! Horror!!:eek::rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with Australian wages. The car industry is the same. Take a brand new Japanes car, a corolla. In the USA, a new corolla is $16,800 before all your dealer charges. (I just looked at the Toyota USA site). The same model in Aus is $19,990. Almost $3K difference for no reason at all. Take a more expensive car like a WRX. USA price $25,995. Aus price $41,000! :eek: For the SAME car! How do car manufacturers justify that? Shipping distance is about equal, cars are the same execpt for RHD/LHD.

These prices arise form the fact that we are an isolated market with less buying power. Our isolation has also in th epast made it easier for international companies to exploit us as we really had no idea what other countries pay for the same items we do.

I don't disagree that some wages in Australia have grown to unsustainable levels in the last decade or so, but that it not the cause of us paying considerably more for TFs than the USA. We have always paid more.

[5FDP]

This has nothing to do with Australian wages.


These prices arise form the fact that we are an isolated market with less buying power.

QFT

[DELTAprime]

This has nothing to do with Australian wages.

These prices arise form the fact that we are an isolated market with less buying power.

First point, we don't just put markup on an item at the store to make a profit for the shareholders. It's also to cover our wages (and they are very high) among other expenses.

As for your second point I'm glad you pointed it out. I tried to put that in a post but didn't know how to articulate it properly so I deleted it. Thank you

[Mythirax]

QFT

That makes my quantum fields particles feel all excited and stuff. Oh "Quoted for Truth"?

[griffin]

(moved several posts here, since I posted the comment that led to that huge derailment of the news topic)