A Pretender Shell For Whom?

[morg176]

pretenders were a relatively short lived line. And with the poor to no existent articulation in the shells its not surprising. How would you revitalise the pretender concept, and which transformers/type of transformers would you include in this line.

Cassettes could have pretender shells....
ravage as a sabertooth?

: )

[kup]

G1 Pretender shells actually had about as much articulation as the averag G1 toy ;)

Pretender Dinobots would be interesting as we saw in the IDW Shockwave Spotlight - However those were more akin to a Beast Wars style 'organic shell' that transforms with the robot mode rather than an actual 'clam' shell completely independent of the transformer inside.

[Aqua Prime]

It wouldn't be that hard. If you made the shell decent, then you'd have to compromise on the quality and articulation of the inner robot. The problem with the G1 Pretender humans is they're all built like a brick s**t house (as the saying goes). I'm not even talking about the articulation. I mean, I don't recall ever seeing anyone with a physique like that, well except crazy muscle men body builders.

[GoktimusPrime]

With the exception of Stranglehold (yeah I know he's a Decepticon, but he still has a 'human' shell), we can't see what their physique is like. Most of the Autobot Pretenders' shells are wearing uber chunky Space Marine armour... much like say the Marines in Starcraft or Warhammer etc. It doesn't mean the people underneath those armours are chunky too. :D In the Anglophone continuity we did once see Cloudburst without his armour (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/0/01/Nomates.jpg), and he just looked like a regular dude in a jumpsuit. In the Japanese continuity the Autobot Pretenders frequently walked around wearing civilian clothes and just looked like regular people (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/thumb/1/12/RiseUpPretenders_Lander_and_date.jpg/250px-RiseUpPretenders_Lander_and_date.jpg) (except Phoenix who looks like Wolverine (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/thumb/9/9e/Phoenix_masterforce.jpg/350px-Phoenix_masterforce.jpg) :p).

I reckon they could make more articulated Pretender shells, but the robots would probably be small - just housed inside the hollow torso, that could flip open to reveal the robot (much like a Mega Pretender shell) then the arms, legs and head could be fully articulated; unrestricted by having to store the robot. The robots themselves could be Legends/Legion Class size... possibly even Scout Class size.

[liegeprime]

Well the G1 Pretenders were erm, coffins, so to speak.:p

The concept that Hastak took now is making the shell THE transforming robot mode itself - e.g. Thunderwing, Bludgeon. Taking a cue from that, and making it so that it's a shell but there's a innerbot (transforming) inside that transforms - this will end up in the same concept as that of G1 Mega pretenders- both shell and innerbot transforms and combines. With today technology it would be indeed awesome and doable to give the Shell articulation. Albeit, costs wise I don't believe HAstak will approve :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

If I wanted figures to be given a newer version articulated shells and revive the Pretender line it would be ( and Budget is not a constraint)

A) The Decepticon Pretender monsters (Monstructor) - these little buggers would have interesting monstershells which if did have articulation and prolly of larger size class would be awesome . I admit a bit of nostalgia in my decision with these ones - plus I wanted a better articulated version of the innerbots themselves - even if they end up Legion class - Im sure they can make it with better articulation since they were able to make so with minicons. Added bonus would be if the innerbots still combines to Monstructor - but yeah that's reaching for the stars.

B) Those old G1 original Actionmaster characters only - e.g. Rad, RolloutMainframe, Take-Off, Powerflash, Jackpot.

Same as the G1 explanation would be that they lost their ability to transform - or mebbe their "T-Cog" got damaged beyond repair, hence they got suited up instead in "Transforming Armour" that doubles as their transport weapons vehicle altmode. But this time the suits are articulated, and transforms. Kinda like the late Actionmasters - e.g. Rumbler, Circuit, but instead of that limited armour and car transformation of their Vehicles. It's their pretender shell. A bonus is that they come still with Targetmaster partners (minicons if you will :))

C) Throttlebots - these bumperbattlers need an extra "bonus" to make em more appealing really. Not that I dont find the original appealing as I have two sets :o of em, but yeah an articulated, transforming outershell coupled with a Fast transforming freewheeling innerbot ( give them articulation too). I'd buy that. It would interesting to see what kind of theme they would come with for the shells too - as with the G1, the shells came in themes for their look.

D) If there was one Pretender that I wanted to also get a newer , modern treatment - it would be Bomb-Burst - That hoverplane innerbot altmode is baaad IMO. If they can make a more sleek looking version and couple it with a great mean-looking Bat monster shell that has articulation and transforms, whoa!!!

[GoktimusPrime]

The Pretender Vehicles are coffins! Especially Gunrunner! :eek:

[liegeprime]

The Pretender Vehicles are coffins! Especially Gunrunner! :eek:

So are the humanoid upright ones... think Tutankhamuns coffin - it's a got a face and hands and feet etched to it but it's not helping the shell at all - it's just a hollow brick coffin, LOL:p and the most UBer coffin of all are SkyHammer and Roadblock - talk about double burial there :p

[morg176]

having well sculpted pretender shells would also keep the dust iff your fave tf's

[Slag]

It wouldn't be that hard. If you made the shell decent, then you'd have to compromise on the quality and articulation of the inner robot. The problem with the G1 Pretender humans is they're all built like a brick s**t house (as the saying goes). I'm not even talking about the articulation. I mean, I don't recall ever seeing anyone with a physique like that, well except crazy muscle men body builders.

King Kong Bundy , Andre the giant and Earthquake..;)

[GoktimusPrime]

So are the humanoid upright ones... think Tutankhamuns coffin - it's a got a face and hands and feet etched to it but it's not helping the shell at all - it's just a hollow brick coffin, LOL:p
Mmm... sarcophagus fresh...


and the most UBer coffin of all are SkyHammer and Roadblock - talk about double burial there :p
Mmm... sarcophagus-coffin combination fresh...


having well sculpted pretender shells would also keep the dust iff your fave tf's
Unless you're like me and display the robots outside the shells. ;)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/collection%202011/collection2011_21.jpg

Mmm... zombie (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/522563_181116205338730_100003210546314_278772_1634 478456_n.jpg) fresh... ;)

[snazzbot 101]

They were available well after my time of being into Transformers should have been gone (beyond looking at them longingly at the toy store and wishing for simpler times). But the idea of robots in humans seemed stupid even then (at least from a practical, toy perspective).

But thinking of it now, some variation of Pretenders-by-way-of-Exo-Squad could work.

[GoktimusPrime]

The concept of Pretenders started from Hasbro wanting to create Transformers who could transform into humans. Takara instead suggested enclosing TFs in human shells. Hasbro agreed to this (and the Decepticons would be monsters).
(source: Ono Koujin interview)

The problem with the 1988 Pretenders isn't just that they're enclosed in human/monster shells, but also that the robots are badly compromised as a result. Uber thin robot modes that simplistically bend/fold over to transform. Landmine's alt mode is basically the robot bent over with a gun on its back. Pretenders like Iguanus and Gunrunner are too kibble-dependent. :(

The 1989 Pretenders were thankfully a LOT better. Take Bumblebee and Bludgeon for example - both have good solid robot modes that transform into clearly identifiable vehicles (and they were mostly cheaper too :D).

[liegeprime]

Yeah, the 1989 pretenders have good innerbot alt modes which thank goodness wasnt limited to vehicles for alt mode - e.g crab, rhinoceros. Unfortunately the size got smaller as well.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah but they were better value for money IMO. Although I personally prefer the "Space Marines" look of the 1988 Pretender Autobot human shells, whereas the 1989 human shells are like random dudes in armour. One is a wrestler and one is a conjoined twin?? :confused: And of course, Mario-wrestler is a Decepticon and one of the Autobots is a walrus-man! :eek:

But yeah, the robots themselves were definitely better. Hasbro later sold the Classic Pretender robots separately as "Legends" (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/7/74/G1toy_legends_starscream.jpg) (not available in Australia - they were Kmart exclusives in the US). And while none of the 1989 Pretenders were sold in Japan (Japanese fans go nuts over them!), Takara did sell the Classic Pretender robots on their own in the "Hero Set" (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/2/29/G1toy_japanese_legends_giftset.jpg) pack. Can you imagine if they sold any of the 1988 Pretender robots on their own? Who'd buy Gunrunner?!? :p

[snazzbot 101]

Yeah, I can see value in the Idea now, but back then - with no access to any fiction - all they were was a compromised toy within another compromised toy.

With today's technology they could definitely update the concept, but my instant thought is why should they try and and sell us two toys at once when they just sell us one?

[GoktimusPrime]

No newsagents or comic stores around your area? :(

Anyway, even with supporting canon the toys were still pretty lame. :p It's interesting to see how writers tried to deal with such an odd concept. While in Japanese (Masterforce) continuity the Pretenders could mass-shift themselves inside their shells and switch between human/TF scale, in Anglophone continuity the Pretenders just happened to be gigantic humans and monsters! For the Decepticons this worked pretty well, but for the Autobots it was just... odd. It was awkwardly handled when they debuted... the Autobots guarding Ethan Zachary's lab compound and when the Decepticons attacked they saw "puny" humans guarding and one of them remarked that they looked too big to be humans and Scorponok replied that it simply meant that their cowardice is greater!! (What the Fakkadi?! :eek:). The Autobot Pretenders' shells only worked as disguises when they were taken off Earth to places where giant humans existed (e.g. Grand Central Space Station, Femax, Pequod, Cheyne, Pz-Zazz, VsQs etc.)

By time they got around to the Pretender Beasts I think writers just gave up on trying to make them robots-in-disguise (not that any of the animal-moded G1 TFs have ever been robots in disguise anyway :p) ;)

[morg176]

The pretender shell toy as a concept was a good one, unfortunately, the technology of the day did not allow for the full potential of the concept to reach satisfaction. As mentioned earlier, with todays technology and designers the pretender concept could be quite good again.

Providing the robots look and articulate well, and the shells dont look like bricks.

seaspray as a pretender... anthropomorphic whale thing! Cliffjumper ..a satyr! and and maybe pretender shells for headmasters and powermasters.

Them again i think that powermasters should be redesigned as an attachable powersource, ie, they actually contain batteries and attaching them lights something up (parts, weapons etc)

thoughts

[snazzbot 101]

No newsagents or comic stores around your area? :(

Yeah not the best way to say it. More like no access to fiction I found likeable. I liked comics back then, still do, but I was instantly turned off by the British comics and their boxy robot art and awful coloring. Besides I wasn't a true fan by then - by the time the movie hit I still cared, but I never got to see it and I thought many of the new toys were sort of crappy (I distinctly remember looking at Galvatron's tank-trank stickers and being incredibly disappointed).

[GoktimusPrime]

Are you sure you're not confusing the UK comics with the US comics? Cos the UK comics had spectacular artwork and far superior colouring compared to the US comics. Nel Yomtov's colouring was always rather lacklustre -- some US artists were alright, but you did have others like José Delbo who made them look "boxy." Also, Marvel US used really horrific print quality in the 1980s -- very pixelated. I think the colouring in the UK comics was really good, especially considering that it was hand done, not like the digitally enhanced colouring that we have in Western comics today.

Here are some pics for comparison:
(A) Blaster, Warpath, Perceptor & Co. as they appeared in the US comics (http://images.wikia.com/transformers/images/4/49/Powerglidereadytoblastoffrightnow.jpg)
As they appeared in the UK comics (http://ww.tfwiki.net/w2/images2/1/14/FallenAngel-Perceptor.jpg)
(B) Ultra Magnus getting pwned in the US comics (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/6/6d/FinalBattle-drawnandquartered.jpg) (adaptation of TFTM)
Getting pwned in the UK comics (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/32/Galvatrong1.jpg)
(C) Emirate Xaaron as appeared in the US comics (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e9/Xaarondelbo.jpg) - Delbo's boxy art at it's finest!
As Xaaron appeared in the UK comics (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/b/b1/UK166_Xaaron.jpg)
(D) Powermaster Optimus Prime in the US comics (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/c/c8/Fortmaxboat.jpg)
Powermaster Optimus Prime in the UK comics (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/1/13/TimeWars-OptimusPrimeentersthefray.jpg)


Besides I wasn't a true fan by then - by the time the movie hit I still cared, but I never got to see it and I thought many of the new toys were sort of crappy (I distinctly remember looking at Galvatron's tank-trank stickers and being incredibly disappointed).
I like G1 Galvatron. :)

But 1986 was the first time that we saw a few Transformer toys that were "fungineered" (i.e. co-developed by HasTak and animators (Sunbow/Toei)). I've never been a big fan of this... I much prefer the usual way where toys are properly "engineered" (i.e. toys made first, then cartoon models are made later based on toys). Most people's favourite G1 toys are "engineered" toys - e.g. all the 1984-85 Transformers.

But IMHO Galvatron and Hot Rod are the best of the "fungineered" '86 Transformers. Rodimus Prime would be the absolute worst. <shudder> Ultra Magnus (an "engineered" ex-Diaclone) was always the "future" Autobot leader when I was a kid. A lot of recent TF lines are "fungineered" now... Bayformers, Animated, Prime. Of course, I'm not saying that all "engineered" toys are great or that all "fungineered" toys are awful. We've had some terrible "engineered" toys (e.g. Battlechargers, Firecons, Pretenders!) and some great "fungineered" toys (e.g. Deluxe Concept Camaro TF1 Bumblebee, Animated Leader Megatron) -- but generally speaking I prefer "engineering" over "fungineering." :)

[Demonac]

"fungineered"??

[GoktimusPrime]

Thanks for aksing. It's a term from Futurama. ;)

"No one really knows when, where, or how man landed on the moon..."
Fry: "I do!"
"...but our fungineers imagine it went something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BjkUtqxPE)."
Fry: "That's not how it happened."
Leela: "Oh, really? I don't see you with a fungineering degree."

[snazzbot 101]

No, they were the UK comics and to me at the time they were awful. Whether I should have seen them better... I was a kid. I made a judgement.
For the record I have myself a couple of Galvatrons. But I was commenting on myself being a kid, and at that time he left me lacking.