Rumor MP-15

[KaRNiV8L PRiME]

This image was just posted up over on the tfw2005 boards and was taken from the Tokyo toy show presentation. Looks photoshopped to me as it looks like laserbeak has been whitened out

[Decepticon]

Shockwave?:eek:

[Sky Shadow]

It's a visual transition from Soundwave to Shockwave; that's why Laserbeak is 'still' there.

[KaRNiV8L PRiME]

It's a visual transition from Soundwave to Shockwave; that's why Laserbeak is 'still' there.

:O so was this really shown???

[Sky Shadow]

:O so was this really shown???

Probably not, or we would have heard of it, but it's a bit of a pointless Photoshop for someone to do. I'm not even 100% sure that Takara could do a Masterpiece Shockwave owing to copyright issues.

[kaiden]

i see the buttons on the groin, so yeah its shockwave over soundwave. the chest is also very squarey

[Tober]

Probably not, or we would have heard of it, but it's a bit of a pointless Photoshop for someone to do. I'm not even 100% sure that Takara could do a Masterpiece Shockwave owing to copyright issues.

Who owns the copyright now? I know it originally belonged to a Korean toy company... :confused:

[kup]

It's a visual transition from Soundwave to Shockwave; that's why Laserbeak is 'still' there.

Agreed. Looks like the photo was taken before the transition was completed.

[Sky Shadow]

Who owns the copyright now? I know it originally belonged to a Korean toy company... :confused:

I'm not sure - the original mould/patent's been passed around like a frisbee over the years - but since Takara itself has never owned the G1 Shockwave mould, I don't know what the legal status is on making a direct 'modern' derivative.

[Tober]

I'm not sure - the original mould/patent's been passed around like a frisbee over the years - but since Takara itself has never owned the G1 Shockwave mould, I don't know what the legal status is on making a direct 'modern' derivative.

Yeah, unlike Skylynx and Omega Supreme, they never did re-issue it. :(

[Sky Shadow]

Yeah, unlike Skylynx and Omega Supreme, they never did re-issue it. :(

Since Tomy designed Omega and Sky Lynx, those reissues and GADEP were the single great benefit to emerge from the TakTom merger/engulfment. Sadly, I fear the same will not be discovered about Shockwave.

[Sky Shadow]

P.S. This was a real image of Shockwave in the presentation, but Shockwave is not being released as a Masterpiece - it was a 'silhouette gag' from the designers as part of the Soundwave 'reveal'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxWYq8kMnGs&feature=player_embedded#t=1412s

[kup]

Oh well. I guess it's up to the 3rd parties to give us an MP Shockwave.

[GoktimusPrime]

Would Takara's lack of ownership over the Astro Magnum mould really prevent them from doing an MP Laserwave? Can't they modify the design so that it approximates Laserwave, but is distinct enough so that it's not? (e.g. ROTF Sideways' approximation of an Audi R8). I mean, they were able to have other similar homages to G1 Laserwave with toys like Superlink Laserwave (Energon Shockblast), Binaltech Laserwave etc. Surely if they changed certain elements of the design they might be able to get away with it? <shrug>

[5FDP]

^ That's exactly what I think. A MP Shockwave isn't a reissue but a new mould.

[Sky Shadow]

The point of the G1 Masterpiece line is to update G1 toys with modern engineering. For Takaratomy to make what will be essentially a third party ripoff of the Astro Magnum mould would be similar to the same company making an accurate-looking Masterpiece Cy-Kill or Masterpiece Jetfire even though the original Bike Robo/Valkyrie moulds, patents and designs are owned by Bandai. Takara's Laserwave toys have never turned into anything that resembled Shockwave's altmode and even the upcoming Generations toy doesn't turn into a gun. There is no way that they'd be going headstrong into making a G1-accurate Shockwave without someone in the legal department going "um..." or "no".

[Decepticon]

Would Takara's lack of ownership over the Astro Magnum mould really prevent them from doing an MP Laserwave? Can't they modify the design so that it approximates Laserwave, but is distinct enough so that it's not? (e.g. ROTF Sideways' approximation of an Audi R8). I mean, they were able to have other similar homages to G1 Laserwave with toys like Superlink Laserwave (Energon Shockblast), Binaltech Laserwave etc. Surely if they changed certain elements of the design they might be able to get away with it? <shrug>

No, because the G1 fanboys will have a whinge saying its not accurate enough.:D

[5FDP]

The point of the G1 Masterpiece line is to update G1 toys with modern engineering. For Takaratomy to make what will be essentially a third party ripoff of the Astro Magnum mould would be similar to the same company making an accurate-looking Masterpiece Cy-Kill or Masterpiece Jetfire even though the original Bike Robo/Valkyrie moulds, patents and designs are owned by Bandai. Takara's Laserwave toys have never turned into anything that resembled Shockwave's altmode and even the upcoming Generations toy doesn't turn into a gun. There is no way that they'd be going headstrong into making a G1-accurate Shockwave without someone in the legal department going "um..." or "no".

Yeah, I don't see it. For example, comparing MP Megatron to his G1 incarnation is like comparing apples to oranges in that the only similarity is the name they share. They are completely different moulds, vastly different scales, and don't even transform the same way. Also, as far as I am aware, Hasbro owns the trademark 'Shockwave' so there are no issues there (it was used in Animated and more recently in DOTM).

A MP Shockwave similar to the design of the Palisades Shockwave (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-images/toys/Non-Transforming+Transformers/Misc/Transformers+Busts+and+Statues/Palisades+Shockwave+Statue/) statue - which was licensed, would be doable. Besides, whoever now owns the copyright for Astro Magnum (if anyone actually does) would not own the copyright for the 'generic space gun' design.

[griffin]

Yeah, I don't see it. For example, comparing MP Megatron to his G1 incarnation is like comparing apples to oranges in that the only similarity is the name they share. They are completely different moulds, vastly different scales, and don't even transform the same way. Also, as far as I am aware, Hasbro owns the trademark 'Shockwave' so there are no issues there (it was used in Animated and more recently in DOTM).

A MP Shockwave similar to the design of the Palisades Shockwave (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-images/toys/Non-Transforming+Transformers/Misc/Transformers+Busts+and+Statues/Palisades+Shockwave+Statue/) statue - which was licensed, would be doable. Besides, whoever now owns the copyright for Astro Magnum (if anyone actually does) would not own the copyright for the 'generic space gun' design.

You're talking about the Hasbro market, while Sky Shadow is talking about the JP market.
You are probably correct in saying that Hasbro could possibly release a Gen1-replica Shockwave (because they had the rights to it at one time)... But TakaraTomy wouldn't, because they never had the rights to certain toy moulds or likenesses (Shockwave, Dlx Insecticons, Jetfire).
This would mean that Hasbro could well do a MP Shockwave without any other company disputing any IP ownership, but it would be a Hasbro exclusive like MP Megatron was exclusive to Japan (for different reasons).
As Sky Shadow was suggesting, TakaraTomy may well get away with something modified enough (that didn't upset fans for being too different to the original), but there would be people in their legal department fighting them on it, to protect themselves from being sued for copying/profiteering from a toy design that wasn't originally created or currently owned by them.

It's like with the Henkei/Classics Jetfire toy being done to look like Skyfire in the cartoon - to avoid having the current owner of the Macross/Robotech toy claiming that Hasbro/TT were copying their Property, if it had looked anything like the original Gen1 Jetfire (in both modes).

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, I see what you mean - the issue isn't just the design, but also the distinctive likeness, which TakTOM don't have the rights to.


The point of the G1 Masterpiece line is to update G1 toys with modern engineering. For Takaratomy to make what will be essentially a third party ripoff of the Astro Magnum mould would be similar to the same company making an accurate-looking Masterpiece Cy-Kill or Masterpiece Jetfire even though the original Bike Robo/Valkyrie moulds, patents and designs are owned by Bandai. Takara's Laserwave toys have never turned into anything that resembled Shockwave's altmode and even the upcoming Generations toy doesn't turn into a gun. There is no way that they'd be going headstrong into making a G1-accurate Shockwave without someone in the legal department going "um..." or "no".
Perhaps go for a G1 Shockwave coloured Nerf gun (similar to how Classics/Henkei/United Megatron was a Nerf Maverick). I reckon that'd be heaps kewl.


No, because the G1 fanboys will have a whinge saying its not accurate enough.:D
True. :rolleyes:

[5FDP]

You're talking about the Hasbro market, while Sky Shadow is talking about the JP market.
You are probably correct in saying that Hasbro could possibly release a Gen1-replica Shockwave (because they had the rights to it at one time)... But TakaraTomy wouldn't, because they never had the rights to certain toy moulds or likenesses (Shockwave, Dlx Insecticons, Jetfire).
This would mean that Hasbro could well do a MP Shockwave without any other company disputing any IP ownership, but it would be a Hasbro exclusive like MP Megatron was exclusive to Japan (for different reasons).
As Sky Shadow was suggesting, TakaraTomy may well get away with something modified enough (that didn't upset fans for being too different to the original), but there would be people in their legal department fighting them on it, to protect themselves from being sued for copying/profiteering from a toy design that wasn't originally created or currently owned by them.

It's like with the Henkei/Classics Jetfire toy being done to look like Skyfire in the cartoon - to avoid having the current owner of the Macross/Robotech toy claiming that Hasbro/TT were copying their Property, if it had looked anything like the original Gen1 Jetfire (in both modes).

I see your point and I probably didn't make myself clear in mine; sorry for that. For the record, I usually lump Hasbro and TakTom into the same bucket as they are both equally responsible for the brand so from my POV it does not matter who manufactures it but rather is it possible for one of them to do so. I have no preference of one over the other and would buy a MP Shockwave regardless of who produces it... as long as it is official :)

[Lord_Zed]

Doh, my hopes dashed again.

Poor Shockwave is always getting the short stick.

[griffin]

I think if TakaraTomy could produce and sell a MP Megatron for just their market/country, I don't see why Hasbro couldn't make a (simplistic) MP Shockwave for their western markets (knowing that sales will bleed over into Japan, like Megatron did out of Japan).
Now would be a good time as well, since we had Shockwave feature heavily in the Movie, and will be featured in FOC & Prime over the next year... not to mention it being added to the Hall of Fame this year, so it would be on the mind of the designers.
Considering the convergence of factors, I'd think it'd be stupid for Hasbro NOT to do a MP Shockwave in the next year.
Yeah I know... this is from the company that thought it was a great idea to have a hundred Optimus & Bumblebee toys for TF3. :p

[Sky Shadow]

For the record, I usually lump Hasbro and TakTom into the same bucket as they are both equally responsible for the brand so from my POV it does not matter who manufactures it but rather is it possible for one of them to do so. I have no preference of one over the other and would buy a MP Shockwave regardless of who produces it... as long as it is official :)

I only used TakaraTomy as an example because they're the ones capable of making a Masterpiece, and it's not in their interest to make something they may never be able to sell. They designed and thus own the rights to almost every other Transformer, so it seems unlikely that they would go out of their way to pay extra money to ensure they had the rights/legal protection for this one toy when they could pick countless characters who are far less complicated. They're not burning through Masterpieces so quickly that they only have Shockwave left - they've made fewer than ten moulds in ten years. I don't know who own the Astro Magnum patent 28 years after his release by Hasbro/Takara, but before TakaraTomy or Hasbro attempted a masterpiece Shockwave they would have to be darned sure that they'd looked into it and paid the right people or they themselves would be little better than third-party or knockoff producers and would lose some of the high ground they have now that they're finally starting to go after third-parties.


I don't see why Hasbro couldn't make a (simplistic) MP Shockwave for their western markets (knowing that sales will bleed over into Japan, like Megatron did out of Japan).

I fear that a Hasbro-designed Masterpiece Shockwave would probably look like the last one they attempted: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Shockwavetitanium.jpg

[5FDP]

I fear that a Hasbro-designed Masterpiece Shockwave would probably look like the last one they attempted: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Shockwavetitanium.jpg

I think that most here would agree that the Titanium Series wasn't executed very well and at least Hasbro felt that Shockwave was unfit to be produced so it never saw the light of day. Also consider that these were no where near the scale / size of early MP toys so a MP Shockwave could have been afforded greater detail avoiding the mess that is the Titanium version of the character.

Either way, if we end up getting a MP version of Shockwave, only time will tell. But you're right; they would have to do their research first regarding ownership of the patent which I am sure they would and have done in the past prior to releasing new product.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think if TakaraTomy could produce and sell a MP Megatron for just their market/country, I don't see why Hasbro couldn't make a (simplistic) MP Shockwave for their western markets (knowing that sales will bleed over into Japan, like Megatron did out of Japan).
Contractually Hasbro and TakTOM aren't allowed to factor in "cross bleeding" into each other's markets. MP Megatron would (should) have been decided based on the projected saleability of that toy within TakTOM's market, and likewise MP Shockwave w(sh)ould be decided similarly for Hasbro's market.

Having said that, I think an MP Shockwave would be a viable toy for the reasons you mentioned. :) Certainly sell better than another slew of Bumblebees. :rolleyes:


I think that most here would agree that the Titanium Series wasn't executed very well and at least Hasbro felt that Shockwave was unfit to be produced so it never saw the light of day. Also consider that these were no where near the scale / size of early MP toys so a MP Shockwave could have been afforded greater detail avoiding the mess that is the Titanium version of the character.
Titanium Series was, to my knowledge, designed in-house by Hasbro (Galoob) and not by Takara like most other Transformer toys are. The lack of Takara engineering is painfully clear in the Titanium Series toys -- some figures are better than others by Ti Series standards, but compared to most other TF toys, they're mediocre at best. So I think Sky Shadow may be hesitant in trusting an MP Shockwave toy that's engineered in-house by Hasbro and without TakaraTOMY.

Having said that, I think TakaraTOMY should be able to engineer toys for Hasbro. They've engineered a lot of toys that have been Hasbro-market exclusives before, e.g. 1988 Targetmasters, Triggerbots, Triggercons, Pretender Beasts, Pretender Vehicles, 1989 Pretenders etc. The differences between Powermaster Optimus Prime and Ginrai come down to what Hasbro specified for PM OP and what Takara wanted for Ginrai (also, Hasbro wanted PM OP to be released sooner). I suspect that Animated was initially designed with the intent of being a Hasbro line, then later TakTOM got permission from Hasbro to release it for their market (similar to how Car Robot was initially a Takara exclusive line, then Hasbro later released it as RiD). So I reckon that TakaraTOMY ought to be able to engineer a MP Shockwave even as a Hasbro-market exclusive without the potential to release it for their market. I think Ti Series was a concept that came out of Hasbro's Galoob branch and they wanted to handle it themselves -- because for the most part, Ti Series toys don't transform (e.g. Star Wars Ti Series and the smaller TF Ti Series etc.).