what to do if someone keeps stealing ur TF's

[iamirondude]

what should i do if there is someone who keeps stealing my tf's and hiding them hopeing that he wont get caught.he's not my kid so smacking him upside the head can't happen.also ringing the cops and telling his carer doesn't work.

[JuzMel]

Erm, lock them in a box where he can't get them or hid them somewhere he can't get them?

[iamirondude]

i've done the box thing he still gets into that and now i have too many to hide or lock away.

[sideswipes brother]

Ummmmm, dont let him in your house??????

[iamirondude]

i wish he actually lives with us.he and his sister are cared for by my mother in law.i've told her but thats also ineffective.

[sideswipes brother]

That sucks that your in that situation. You could put them in storage or keep them at someone elses house? Put a good lock on your bedroom door?

[Deonasis]

Stick to them like glue and watch them like a hawk. And if they get annoyed because you don't leave them alone well good, it might get them to quit this game quicker.

[nofacej]

Sounds like attention seeking to me. Try spending some time with him and he might start showing more respect towards your things.

Some ages would help us give you better advice.

[KillinSpoon]

Electric fence. In your room.

[kurdt_the_goat]

Take his stuff and start hiding it too. In the bin!

[iamirondude]

i thought it was attention seeking to so i did spend alot of time with him and took him out on callouts and on TF hunts and brought him alot of TFs but he still stealing mine and it's not just tfs he's been stealing.he's stolen my lic and plant tickets and other peoples stuff.i have been offered storage at another ozformers house but i don't know cause it's a huge collection and i do trust him 100% but i have never let anything so valuable outside my house.

[GoktimusPrime]

The short term solution is to secure your belongings from this kid. Place your Transformers and other valuables into a room, then lock it. But this is only treating the symptom and not the problem, which is whatever issues this kid has that makes him want to steal things.

But yeah, in the meantime I'd definitely recommend locking up your Transformers and other valuables. If he so much as says ONE word in protest, tell him that you're sick of him stealing your things and that because of his actions, you no longer trust him to have access to your collection and other valuables. i.e. this is the consequence of his actions. The sooner kids learn that there are consequences for what they do, the sooner they learn this little thing called responsibility.

You can't control what he does, and you can't control what his carers do (all you can do is ask them to take action) -- but you CAN control what happens to your stuff, in this case, securing them. Keep one key with you (attach it to your car keys), and maybe ask your OzFormer friend that you trust to keep the spare key for you. If he starts eyeing your keys, maybe tell him that if you find your keys missing, the next step will be installing a finger-print scan lock.

I also find it incredibly rude that this child and his carers can live under your roof and disrespect you by allow (through inaction) him to steal from you. :mad:

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Either:
1) Hide them as has been suggested,
2) Put up an alternate, more tempting petty theft target (I recommend chocolate laxatives in an easy-to-access jar):D
...or...
3) dust them in chilli powder and when you see one missing have a 'Who can keep their finger on their eyeball the longest' contest.

[GoktimusPrime]

More serious concerns -- this child may be manifesting signs of kleptomania, which is linked with OCD and addictive behaviours. If so, then early intervention would be advisable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptomania
http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Kleptomania.html

[liegeprime]

Who is the parents of this kid, tell them their kid is a freakin Klepto!!:mad::mad::mad: let them do the smacking and if they don't well, LOCK your room! Id say put your foot down since it's your freakin house! that kid is just being babysat is he, well tell his parents coz the sooner thisbehaviour is nipped at the bud the better.

It is quite a chore coz weve seen you have definitely a lot more toys than before but until this issue isn't resolved it would be best to store and lock them
and your other valuables.

Things like this makes me mad and stupid policies like no smacking only mollycoddles offenders like this brat... A good 12 strong whacks of a bamboo stick in the hands for everytime he steals is really in order. I dont care what anyone says , NEVER SPARE THE ROD! He steals, he bleeds!:mad::mad::mad:

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

i wish he actually lives with us.he and his sister are cared for by my mother in law.i've told her but thats also ineffective.
Id say put your foot down since it's your freakin house! that kid is just being babysat is he, well tell his parents coz the sooner thisbehaviour is nipped at the bud the better.
What I got from this was that they actually live full-time in the same house, and iamirondude's mother-in-law is their full-time, live-in carer for one reason or another. Presumably there's some sort of reason for that, i.e. they're probably the kids of a family member/close friend who either passed away and/or has some difficult life circumstances that make foster care a better option, or else said mother-in-law has adopted them.
Eg. irondude's household = iamirondude + iamirondude's wife + their/his own child + irondude's mother-in-law + Klepto the Wonder Boy + Klepto's sister + possibly others.
Either way, without knowing too many of the details and/or family politics here, if the mother-in-law is caring for the two kids full-time presumably they're from a 'troubled' background and there's not a better option available, like their actual parents. Similarly, kicking them out of the house over something like this (and the various other thefts) isn't a viable option either without kicking out Grandma too, which presumably Mrs irondude wouldn't be too happy about (and seems a little extreme). You have a little more leverage if it's 'your house' as in you're the actual house owner rather than another tenant/family member, but even then the whole blood ties to Grandma and Klepto being her ward make laying down the law difficult.

So, with this in mind, here's my serious advice. Previous suggestions 1 and 2 are still workable, as is 'store them at someone else's house' (maybe try to find someone you trust though), but if you want to keep them at hand and theft-free then you might want to get Mrs irondude to approach her mother about it. If Klepto is stealing from other people too presumably there's an awareness that there's a problem here, but Grandma either 1) refuses to acknowledge it about her little angel, or else 2) hasn't been able to stop it. If it's the latter, then maybe look into counseling as Goki says - not just for the TFs, but also because growing up as a petty thief isn't gonna be good for Klepto either. For now it's just annoying, but it could land him in real trouble one day.

So @irondude, I've got a few questions that'll help us get a clearer view of the situation here. Feel free to not answer them if they're stuff you don't want to talk about.
1: Are you the house owner/lease holder?
2: How old is Klepto, and how long has he been doing this for? Is he a troubled/problem child generally, and does he have any behavioural disorders like ADHD, Autism, etc? Were there any notable events that happened that might have triggered it off?
3: Why is Grandma looking after Klepto and his sister? Does his sister have any behavioural problems too, or is it just him? If you can tell us a little about the background story here (while avoiding any specifics you'd rather not share) it could help us understand what's going on.
4: Has Grandma tried doing anything about Klepto's behaviour, or is she pretending it's not happening and/or looking the other way and hoping it just goes away on it's own?
5: What's the makeup of your house? So far we know it's you, Mrs irondude's mother, and her 2 wards, but who else lives there?
6: What are the family politics here? Do you get on well with your mother-in-law? Do you think Mrs irondude might have a better chance of getting results here?

[griffin]

If you don't have to share your room, just buy a door-handle with a lock on it and change it over (if it is possible or allowed). It'll give you security (when you are out) and privacy (when you are in).

[GoktimusPrime]

There should definitely be SOME form of consistently enforced consequence for that child's behaviour - positive (reward) and negative (punishment). Not necessarily corporal punishment - it can be other things like verbal reprimands, removal of privileges (e.g. television access, computer access, access to child's own toys/games etc.).


So, with this in mind, here's my serious advice. Previous suggestions 1 and 2 are still workable, as is 'store them at someone else's house' (maybe try to find someone you trust though), but if you want to keep them at hand and theft-free then you might want to get Mrs irondude to approach her mother about it.
I think it's easy enough just to pop over to your local hardware store like Bunnings, get a simple door-knob with a key lock, and install it in the collection room door. I had to do that when I got my NSW Gunformer Permit, and believe me, if I can install a door-knob lock, anyone can! :D Remember that wooden pencil case everyone made in Year 7 Woodwork? I stuffed mine up -- that's how bad I suck at anything remotely handyman :p I bought my door handle lock from Bunnings for $18.95 - so it's inexpensive but secure.

Just keep a key with the house/car keys and leave a spare with a trusted friend. And if he manages to steal the key and get into that room, then that would be time to consider other options, such as:
+ Changing to another key-lock (though he may do it again if he obtains the new key)
+ Install a latch with a keypad padlock.
+ Change to a keypad lock. They cost about $95.
+ Change to a fingerprint scanner lock. Costs about $300.

If the collection room is downstairs, you may consider installing security grilles on the window(s) (cost varies depending on the size of the window). You may also consider installing an alarm in the room. But I'd start with a simple $18.95 door handle lock first... if that's enough to keep him out then there's no need to go for the more extravagant and costly options.


For now it's just annoying, but it could land him in real trouble one day.
+1 QFT. If this behaviour continues, he's gonna be in for a rude shock when he turns 18! (by then the behaviour is so heavily ingrained it becomes more difficult to break -- better to address the behaviour while they're younger)


2: How old is Klepto, and how long has he been doing this for? Is he a troubled/problem child generally, and does he have any behavioural disorders like ADHD, Autism, etc? Were there any notable events that happened that might have triggered it off?
Stealing isn't a symptom of ADD/ADHD or autism though; it's more of a compulsive behavioural disorder like OCD or addiction.


3: Why is Grandma looking after Klepto and his sister? Does his sister have any behavioural problems too, or is it just him?
Probably just the boy. Congenital disorders like OCD, ADD, ADHD etc. tend to occur far more frequently on the Y chromosome than the X chromosome, so boys are far more susceptible. If you think of every person you've met with these kinds of disorders, think about how many of the male:female ratio... they're mostly males. ;) Same with congenital/birth defects too like deformities etc. I'm not saying that it doesn't occur in girls, but it occurs far more frequently in boys.


6: What are the family politics here? Do you get on well with your mother-in-law? Do you think Mrs irondude might have a better chance of getting results here?
Yeah... worst case scenario might be getting a domestic court order. :( Hopefully it won't come to that.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I think it's easy enough just to pop over to your local hardware store like Bunnings, get a simple door-knob with a key lock, and install it in the collection room door....This works OK if there's a dedicated collection room, but with iamirondude & Mrs iamirondude, iamirondude JR (IIRC he has a son, possibly more kids), Grandma Mrs iamirondude, and Klepto and his sister it sounds like maybe there aren't that many spare rooms at his house.
Stealing isn't a symptom of ADD/ADHD or autism though; it's more of a compulsive behavioural disorder like OCD or addiction.Too true, and sorry if it came across as that's what I was implying. I've got ADD myself (thankfully not ADHD) so I probably should have been more careful with my language what with all the misconceptions about various learning/behavioural disabilities out there.:o
The reason I asked is because it could be an attention seeking thing and/or a way of venting frustration at being 'special needs', especially if he's undiagnosed and/or not being treated. Then again, it might not.
Not that I'm qualified to give an expert diagnosis anyway, but right now we just don't have enough information to make useful suggestions.
Probably just the boy. Congenital disorders like OCD, ADD, ADHD etc. tend to occur far more frequently on the Y chromosome than the X chromosome, so boys are far more susceptible. If you think of every person you've met with these kinds of disorders, think about how many of the male:female ratio... they're mostly males. ;) Same with congenital/birth defects too like deformities etc. I'm not saying that it doesn't occur in girls, but it occurs far more frequently in boys.Totally agree. Us males sure suck biology-wise, don't we?:(
Still, I'll take just having to shave every morning over all the funky body stuff women have to live with every month.

Back on-topic: the thing is, we don't know much about these kids besides that they're being looked after by Grandma in the same house as Uncle iamirondude and that Klepto is a klepto. It could be that they're both handfuls but the girl isn't a sticky-fingers-type handful, or it could be that Klepto is just difficult for one reason or another. If, say, they're being fostered out because their birth-parents were 'unsuitable parents' and the kids have grown up in a less-than-ideal home situation and they both act out accordingly, that's a bit of a different situation from Klepto just being a bad little who likes hiding other peoples' stuff and would warrant a different approach to solving the problem accordingly.

[iamirondude]

okey dokey this the is what's happen at the mo he's been 'punished' by not being able 2 go 2 the local townsville show but it's not just the stealing thats only a small part.here is alittle bit of what he's done in the last 3 months, he has cut the hoses and saftey lines and electrical cables and brake airlines on the truck,he's also bullying other kids,he's also stolen money of people,he's been suspended for a month from school etc etc.now the punishment he receive's is no where near what he should be getting and if i say anything to him i'm the bad guy and then they tell me he's had a hard life.he's been with my mother in law since he was 2 weeks old and has had a great life.i can't kick him out because the others should not have to suffer because of him.so i've decided to just pack them up and put them into storage so looks like i won't be able to enjoy my hobby.

[nofacej]

okey dokey this the is what's happen at the mo he's been 'punished' by not being able 2 go 2 the local townsville show but it's not just the stealing thats only a small part.here is alittle bit of what he's done in the last 3 months, he has cut the hoses and saftey lines and electrical cables and brake airlines on the truck,he's also bullying other kids,he's also stolen money of people,he's been suspended for a month from school etc etc.now the punishment he receive's is no where near what he should be getting and if i say anything to him i'm the bad guy and then they tell me he's had a hard life.he's been with my mother in law since he was 2 weeks old and has had a great life.i can't kick him out because the others should not have to suffer because of him.so i've decided to just pack them up and put them into storage so looks like i won't be able to enjoy my hobby.

This is clearly about a lot more than Transformers here, and I have to say it might be in the best interest of the kid for you to be the bad guy. His behaviour needs to be corrected and his Grandmother has to realise she's not protecting him by defending him but rather causing significant damage. The longer this goes on the harder it's going to be to change his behaviours.

[kup]

i wish he actually lives with us.he and his sister are cared for by my mother in law.i've told her but thats also ineffective.

Lock the room where the toys are. This kid is clearly out of control because he has never been given any restrictions or made to understand that there are consequences to his actions.

He is going to end up turning into a sociopath that will most likely end up in prison. If not corrected now, it will be a lot worse when he is older.

[GoktimusPrime]

iamirondude: you're not the bad guy. He may just think that way because some other adults aren't being on side with you in reinforcing expectations and rules and consequences consistently with him. But you stick to your guns and hang in there man. You never need to apologise for having high standards (if anything, other adults in the house may need to lift their standards up to match yours). I suspect a lack of consistent standards/expectations (and enforcement thereof) may have contributed to this child's current attitude and behaviour. When it comes to dealing with behaviour management, I always find Ultra Magnus to be a great source of wisdom... "Consistency IS victory."

[liegeprime]

okey dokey this the is what's happen at the mo he's been 'punished' by not being able 2 go 2 the local townsville show but it's not just the stealing thats only a small part.here is alittle bit of what he's done in the last 3 months, he has cut the hoses and saftey lines and electrical cables and brake airlines on the truck,he's also bullying other kids,he's also stolen money of people,he's been suspended for a month from school etc etc.now the punishment he receive's is no where near what he should be getting and if i say anything to him i'm the bad guy and then they tell me he's had a hard life.he's been with my mother in law since he was 2 weeks old and has had a great life.i can't kick him out because the others should not have to suffer because of him.so i've decided to just pack them up and put them into storage so looks like i won't be able to enjoy my hobby.

a few broken bones should set him straight :mad::mad:

[iamirondude]

the wife and mother in law have just come back from the shops and lo and behold he's got TF's they brought him,so she wont tahe him to the show but will spend that money on toys for him so i'm going out threre and when he turns his back i'm gonna hide them.lets see how he feels when it happens to him.

[SuspectimusPrime]

It may be beneficial for the hand that eventually strikes to be from a third party. Once this kid gets himself into some serious trouble where he's going to really start fearing for his life, he just might become self aware and understand that there will not always be somebody there to forgive and forget. Then he just might think back to the food on the table and the bed he slept on that was provided for by the good iamirondude clan.

[GoktimusPrime]

the wife and mother in law have just come back from the shops and lo and behold he's got TF's they brought him,so she wont tahe him to the show but will spend that money on toys for him
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/th_stewiegriffin_shock.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/th_ngsmoov_facepalmperceptor.jpg
"I must apologise for Wimp Lo, he is an idiot. We purposely trained him wrong, as a joke." - Master Tang (Kung Pow: Enter The Fist)

[iamirondude]

well its a hour into it and he's panicing and blameing everyone 4 his TF's missing and i'm trying my hardest to keep a straight face.but the other thing is the M-I-L still says he only took 1 or 2 different items but i called bullshit on them.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

So, fun and poetically just as that is: what's your long-term plan for stopping Klepto from ending up in prison and/or beaten to a pulp by an irate non-relative victim of his exploits @ iamirondude? And how are you going to get the missus and the M-I-L onside to get him the help he obviously needs to straighten up?
It seems to me there's a bigger issue here than just TFs going walkies, and that's really the issue that Clan iamirondude needs to be looking at.

If he grows up and cuts someone else's brake lines and they get in a serious accident as a result, that's kind of a big deal and he'll be doing time for it.

[iamirondude]

just got home from ozformer grevious's house and walked straight into a shitstorm.they think i'm picking on him cause they say he doesn't know what he's doing.i call bullshit on that.he knows excatly what he's doing and he's playing on it,i know it,our friends know it but their blind to it and they keep harping on how he's had a hard life.they don't know the meaning of hard. so hopefully he does what he does here to someone else and cops a flogging for it.

[kreh80]

Hey bro,

I tend to agree with ode to a grasshopper here, the TF's missing are a side issue to cutting hoses up and being suspended from school.

There could be a problem that the young bloke is dealing with that he can't talk about/explain (bully at school, problem with a teacher etc). There is support out there that may help you all get to the root of the problem. QLD health will offer some advice on who to see, you could also see a councilor at school or freecall Lifeline or parentline, they provide free professional advice and support and know how to get info out of kids and offer advice.

These are just friendly suggestions and thoughts.

Good luck mate, hang tough.

Talk to you later in the week.

[GoktimusPrime]

but the other thing is the M-I-L still says he only took 1 or 2 different items but i called bullshit on them.
It doesn't matter if he took 1 or 2 or 10. The fact of the matter is he took something without permission, which is stealing -- it's the principle of the matter.


just got home from ozformer grevious's house and walked straight into a shitstorm.they think i'm picking on him cause they say he doesn't know what he's doing.i call bullshit on that.he knows excatly what he's doing and he's playing on it,i know it,our friends know it but their blind to it and they keep harping on how he's had a hard life.they don't know the meaning of hard. so hopefully he does what he does here to someone else and cops a flogging for it.
Of course he knows what he's doing. Even if he has some kind of disorder like kleptomania - he'd still know that he's doing it. It's not as if someone with say a hand-washing OCD doesn't know what they're doing each time they soap up and wash their hands a hundred times a day! It's not as if hoarders don't know that they're hoarding! Of course these people know what they're doing! It only difference is that if it's because of an actual disorder, they may not know how to stop or control their actions even if they want to (like say a smoker who doesn't know how to quit - but they're fully aware each time they light up, it's not like, "Oh! What's this ciggie doing in my mouth?!?" :rolleyes:). And as I said before, if it's some kind of disorder where he really can't stop himself, then it requires professional intervention. But the majority of people who are compulsive thieves do NOT have any kind of mental/psychological disorder like kleptomania or OCD that predisposes them to doing so. Or he could just be a self-righteous spoiled brat with an over-developed sense of self-entitlement without any sufficient understanding of self-responsibility. :rolleyes: ;)

I find it difficult to believe that this child has gone around cutting hoses, brake lines and getting suspended from school, and yet the caregivers have decided to punish him by not letting him to a show, but reward him with some Transformer toys. W H A T ? :eek::confused: What part of the word "consistency" do they not understand?!? :confused: Disallowing him from going to the show was a good move, I'll give credit for that... but you've GOT to be consistent in the application and execution of consequences. Considering the severity of what's happened, that should only be the beginning of his punishment... he should have all sorts of other privileges revoked like being able to watch TV or use the computer or confiscate his mobile phone etc. And the child will need to earn those privileges back through good behaviours and demonstrating that he is making an effort to improve. No good behaviour, no reward. More bad behaviour, more punishments.

It's not rocket science. :( Unless it's really like Wimp Lo from Kung Pow: Enter the Fist, and this kid's being raised wrong on purpose as a joke. That's gotta be it. :rolleyes: :p

[SkyWarp91]

Beat the kid. Teach them disciprine. It worked for me. Oh wait...

Seriously though, the kid sounds like he keeps stealing because he knows he can and can get away with it. Screw what your missus or mother-in law think if the kid steals then you punish him fairly. Go to his house and get back all your toys.

[Tabias Prime]

Or he could just be a self-righteous spoiled brat with an over-developed sense of self-entitlement without any sufficient understanding of self-responsibility. :rolleyes: ;)

I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment and describes 75% of people theses days :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[GoktimusPrime]

My part in this discussion has moved away from simply securing iamirondude's collection from this child and more toward issues with the child, so I've continued my discussion about it in the Parenting Thread (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=306920#post306920).

As far as the Transformers are concerned, as has been suggested before, you need to cut off this child's access to your collection (locking up, relocating etc.). :(

[Gouki]

the wife and mother in law have just come back from the shops and lo and behold he's got TF's they brought him,so she wont tahe him to the show but will spend that money on toys for him so i'm going out threre and when he turns his back i'm gonna hide them.lets see how he feels when it happens to him.

Good one. Way to show who's boss there. I assume you're both in the same grade or something?

But really, the Transformers are the least important thing here (as many have said). If he's doing things like cutting power cables go to the cops. Don't be an annoying, passive agressive internet dweller who won't do anything (oh, except your brillaint 'I'll hide the childs toys!' strategy). Keep going to the cops, and make the mother vary aware of that. At the very least it might start a chain reaction of awkwardness for a few weeks, but it's better than nothing if change comes.

Tell her straight up how it is, and whats going to change.

[Jinto]

iamIrondude, how old is this guy? Are we talking disobedient kid or mentally handicapped (young?)adult with a carer?

[iamirondude]

he's 10 yrs old.so i've just decided to let things be with him.Nothings gonna change him so i'm a gonna leave it as it is and just let him learn the hard way whats happens when u stuff up.

[Dodgeybros]

simply limit his access to wherever the TF's are stored. when he is at your house, you enforce this, when he leaves the room, follow him, if he goes to the toilet, wait in the hallway so he can't slip to wherever they're stored. If he asks why, tell him that you can't trust him near his toys.
As for the other types of behaviour, seek advice from a few professionals(counsellors, child shrink, and even other foster parents and their support groups), foster kids have a hard life, I grew up with a kid (we were best mates) who was continuously shipped from one household to another, and all he seemed to need was love and acceptance from his family.

[Seraphim Prime]

he's 10 yrs old.so i've just decided to let things be with him.Nothings gonna change him so i'm a gonna leave it as it is and just let him learn the hard way whats happens when u stuff up.

I wouldn't write him off. I do a lot of work with youth, and at 10, a lot of things can still change, as long as someone puts the effort and care into them. I don't know where the boundary should be, and how much you can convince your mother in law to be doing, but don't write the kid off.

[Hursticon]

Honestly Irondude; IMO whilst this child is clearly in need of intervention & his guardian needs a good waking up to herself, I'm with Liege on this one - This brat needs a bloody good clip around the ear!