Damaged During Transformation Help!

[SuspectimusPrime]

I've foolishly damaged a part of one of my most prized catches.

Does anyone know of any super awesome super glue available that could glue the equivalent of two pieces of a toothpick together to appear unbroken?

The damaged part is plastic the size of a toothpick (one of the antennae of the robot). Whilst the damaged part has not yet snapped off, I've kept the whole bot boxed and hidden safely until I find something to remedy it.

Please help!

[kup]

I've foolishly damaged a part of one of my most prized catches.

Does anyone know of any super awesome super glue available that could glue the equivalent of two pieces of a toothpick together to appear unbroken?

The damaged part is plastic the size of a toothpick (one of the antennae of the robot). Whilst the damaged part has not yet snapped off, I've kept the whole bot boxed and hidden safely until I find something to remedy it.

Please help!

G1 Roadbuster's antenna?

[VERT]

Loctite 406 and Zapa gap are the two most evil but strong glues ever. Glue something with this stuff and if you try to break it again it wont be the glue that snap's And god help your skin if its on your hands. Someone at work glued their fingers together and ended up in hospital.

[SuspectimusPrime]

G1 Roadbuster's antenna?

Nope, but close in terms of cost damage. It's FP Bruticus' left head antenna. I transformed it and had the two antennae go through Onslaught's fist holes, but found out that one of them didn't entirely make it later. :(



Loctite 406 and Zapa gap are the two most evil but strong glues ever. Glue something with this stuff and if you try to break it again it wont be the glue that snap's And god help your skin if its on your hands. Someone at work glued their fingers together and ended up in hospital.

Really appreciate those names, and thanks for the tip. I've heard of devilish super strong glues but just needed those names - that's the sort of demon power I need for the job. I'll try them out later this year when I permanently relocate back to Sydney. For the time being I might start practicing with gluing toothpicks back together!

[Trent]

Good idea to practice with the toothpicks. Lots and lots of practice.


From my experience with these small things, it MAY be easier to snap the piece off completely rather than try to repair it partially broken. It usually makes for a neater end product.

Good luck though.

[Tabias Prime]

Loctite 406 and Zapa gap are the two most evil but strong glues ever. Glue something with this stuff and if you try to break it again it wont be the glue that snap's And god help your skin if its on your hands. Someone at work glued their fingers together and ended up in hospital.

Yesss Loctite 406 one of the most evil glues around...:p:p:p have used it at work, it can be very unforgiving because you get one chance...

[SuspectimusPrime]

Good idea to practice with the toothpicks. Lots and lots of practice.


From my experience with these small things, it MAY be easier to snap the piece off completely rather than try to repair it partially broken. It usually makes for a neater end product.

Good luck though.


Yesss Loctite 406 one of the most evil glues around...:p:p:p have used it at work, it can be very unforgiving because you get one chance...

Both really good pieces of advice. I've been imagining the amount of precision timing needed and didn't consider breaking snapping the piece off completely first. Although the thought makes me cringe. I'll have a better idea after I've played around with the Loctite 406 a bit :)

[kup]

In this sorts of situations, I do 'dry tests' without glue to see if I am able to put the piece back in place and hold it there without moving for about a minute (the time required for the glue to hold).

I would also try to keep the head upright to allow gravity to help you and also use the most minimal amount of glue possible so that it doesn't overflow and cause a 'bump' on the sculpt.

[M-bot]

Loctite 406 and Zapa gap are the two most evil but strong glues ever. Glue something with this stuff and if you try to break it again it wont be the glue that snap's And god help your skin if its on your hands. Someone at work glued their fingers together and ended up in hospital.

Where might one purchase one of these fine products? In case one is feeling masochistic?

[SuspectimusPrime]

In this sorts of situations, I do 'dry tests' without glue to see if I am able to put the piece back in place and hold it there without moving for about a minute (the time required for the glue to hold).

I would also try to keep the head upright to allow gravity to help you and also use the most minimal amount of glue possible so that it doesn't overflow and cause a 'bump' on the sculpt.

I've been going through Loctite 406's tech sheet (http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/406-2012%20NEW-EN.PDF). This stuff sounds quite demonic. I think I should only need half a millimetre or less, applied to the end of a toothpick and just briefly brushed onto the head. At this stage the piece has not broken off yet, and from memory, I do not recall seeing stress marks on the small amount of plastic that's still holding the antenna to the head. If possible, I would prefer to not snap it off and then re-glue the whole piece on. I might also try some dry tests with bits of Lego (life maybe a space antenna or flag staff piece).

[SuspectimusPrime]

Where might one purchase one of these fine products? In case one is feeling masochistic?

Shopping around a bit it seems like the average price is more or less $20 (seems like a bargain price to do a whole lot of good or a whole lot of evil). However on eBay you get to have it delivered to your home ;)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Loctite-406-20g-25ml-Instant-Adhesive-super-glue-/120906201166?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Industrial_ Supply_MRO&hash=item1c2692384e#ht_1157wt_1093

Since its a local brand, you might be able to get it cheaper at your local hobby place?

[M-bot]

Since its a local brand, you might be able to get it cheaper at your local hobby place?

I've tried my local without luck. Going to cast the net out a bit further tomorrow. eBay if that doesn't work out. Many thanks!:)


I've been going through Loctite 406's tech sheet (http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/406-2012%20NEW-EN.PDF). This stuff sounds quite demonic.

Aaaah, the wickedness one could perpetrate! The possibilities are endless! :D;)

[VERT]

Now remember "With great power comes great responsibility " :D Same goes for glue. :eek:

[M-bot]

OK, so I got myself some Loctite 406, searched online and called a bunch of hardware and automotive supply places and finally found some at BURSON AUTO PARTS (http://www.burson.com.au/index.htm). ~$25 for a 25ml bottle, which looks like it will last me quite some time. I could have got the same thing on eBay for about $20 shipped, but in this instance I wanted to look at the bottle before I purchased.

I want it to fix an issue on my Classics Optimus Prime - got it on eBay at quite a pretty penny and the arm snapped off on about the 2nd or 3rd transform, got me narked no end. The piece that snapped takes a bit of strain, so I needed a glue that is ridiculously strong. Hoped that Loctite 406 would be what the doctor ordered. It is quite a bit thinner than I thought it would be, and no sooner had I opened it that I got some on my fingers. Had to be super careful not to get skin on skin, as I have little time for a hospital visit. It took some fiddling around before I was confident to apply it to Op, and I only used the smallest of amounts so it didn't overwhelm and fuse the arm joint.

It dried stiff in about a minute or so. I'm not going to test the joint out fully for at least a day or two to make sure it's completely cured. I'll let you know what the results are in a couple of days. Hopefully by then the hard new skin I have developed on a few finger tips has worn off by then... ;):)

[Trent]

Good luck! I'm keen to hear how it goes.


Hopefully by then the hard new skin I have developed on a few finger tips has worn off by then... ;):)

Get a file or sand paper. That's how I get araldite off my skin. Works a treat!:)

[SuspectimusPrime]

It dried stiff in about a minute or so. I'm not going to test the joint out fully for at least a day or two to make sure it's completely cured. I'll let you know what the results are in a couple of days. Hopefully by then the hard new skin I have developed on a few finger tips has worn off by then... ;):)

Hope it all works out :)

Just very curious, do you have any before and after shots of OP's arm?

[M-bot]

Just very curious, do you have any before and after shots of OP's arm?

I thought to take some pics before I glued and then completely forgot to. If attempt #1 fails, I'll be sure to post some pics before attempt #2.

[M-bot]

Picked up OP - the slightest movement of the arm and it came straight of at the same point. The point of glueing felt slightly tacky, so I'm wondering if 24 hours was not enough curing time. Impatience got the better of me.

I did try and take the arm apart to isolate the break but couldn't separate the front and back of the arm - even snapped the tip of a blade in the groove between pieces. It's still there.

I may try and take the body apart instead. Griffin has shown how here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=13908).

Pics to come, when I make attempt number 2. Not ready to give up on the Loctite just yet.

[M-bot]

OK, attempt #2 with WIP pics!

The damage:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/7565528442_078ff6570f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565528442/)
IMG_0080 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565528442/) by M-bot2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/m-botstransformers/)http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7565528934_b2e2d10762_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565528934/)
IMG_0081 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565528934/) by M-bot2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/m-botstransformers/)
Inside the arm is a silver disc that allows movement while anchoring the arm to the body.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8027/7565529604_ac11239b96_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565529604/)
IMG_0082 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565529604/) by M-bot2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/m-botstransformers/)
Here you can see the tip of the blade that is lodged in between the front and back of the arm. These pieces WILL JUST NOT COME APART.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7246/7565530166_313ab714bb_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565530166/)
IMG_0083 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565530166/) by M-bot2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/m-botstransformers/)http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8015/7565530690_2b2e056f58_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565530690/)
IMG_0084 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565530690/) by M-bot2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/m-botstransformers/)
Heres the body, taken apart, and the arm attachment removed. It was incredibly tight on the rotation point - I'm now wondering if this contributed to the poor arm movement and hence the breakage. It may be a similar issue with the pieces of the arm that wont come apart. I may need to shave down the peg inside the body that the arm rotates on in order to free it up a little and prevent the stress on the glued piece.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7565531246_601cbf43c1_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565531246/)
IMG_0085 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/m-botstransformers/7565531246/) by M-bot2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/m-botstransformers/)
All glued. You can see here the disc that anchors the arm. Once the glue has cured - a good 2-3 days this time - this disc will need to rotate freely with the red connector piece that goes inside the body.

Here's hoping! Update in a few days.

[M-bot]

Some good news - the Loctite 406 has held a treat! The red piece that fits inside the body is turning sweetly and won't pull out from the arm.

I've yet to reassemble the body and try and move the arm once it's attached - that will be the ultimate test and will have to wait until the weekend.

Anyone else got any glue stories? What works? What doesn't?

[SuspectimusPrime]

Some good news - the Loctite 406 has held a treat! The red piece that fits inside the body is turning sweetly and won't pull out from the arm.

I've yet to reassemble the body and try and move the arm once it's attached - that will be the ultimate test and will have to wait until the weekend.

Anyone else got any glue stories? What works? What doesn't?

That's some really good news :) Congrats dude!

I just got my Loctite in the mail this week, but I don't have my Bruticus head nor any Lego in Melbourne to try it on. Might run a few tests on various types of plastics (pen cap-clips and stuff) this weekend and see how well they do by next week.

[M-bot]

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but it's a lot thinner than I thought it would be, and hence difficult to control out of the bottle. My suggestion is to put the glue on another surface (ice cream or yogurt container plastic lids work well) and apply the glue to the pieces you're gluing with a toothpick. Latex gloves would not go astray either.

I think your idea of practice is probably wise too. ;)

Best of luck, let us know how you go!

[M-bot]

The #$%@&ing mongrel thing broke again! AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Trying it over again. If this doesnt work, I'll be tempted to drill holes and insert a pin or something.

[SuspectimusPrime]

That's some really good news :) Congrats dude!

I just got my Loctite in the mail this week, but I don't have my Bruticus head nor any Lego in Melbourne to try it on. Might run a few tests on various types of plastics (pen cap-clips and stuff) this weekend and see how well they do by next week.

After a disgustingly long amount of time, I tried my first attempt at repairing FP Bruticus' left antenna.

Before going ahead I did query this advice:


Good idea to practice with the toothpicks. Lots and lots of practice.


From my experience with these small things, it MAY be easier to snap the piece off completely rather than try to repair it partially broken. It usually makes for a neater end product.

Good luck though.

Definitely went with the toothpicks, but a retired engineer said snapping the part completely off may prove more difficult because of the way 406 bonds -- it's easier to just get a smidgen, apply, and then hold the piece back into place. Same person also suggested to squeeze the bottle whilst recapping to prevent excess air from entering and affecting the product for future use. I went with that and am quite happy with the results:

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii640/Suspectimus/DSC00314.jpg

The broken left antenna was hanging by a millimetre's amount of plastic, and hold on very well without stress marks despite being bent 30 degrees from its proper upright position - kudos on Fansproject for not cheapening on the plastic :) After a tiny amount, I moved the piece back into place for 1 minute, before gently applying tape around the head to prevent small movements.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii640/Suspectimus/DSC00316.jpg

Damage is unnoticeable by the naked, but the my novice skill level in applying is seen at the base of the antenna cylinder when under a bright light.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii640/Suspectimus/DSC00318.jpg

Due to the way the head is constructed, the antennae are moulded separately and then pegged into the sides of the helmet. The repaired left antenna feels stronger than the undamaged right antenna, i.e. if I push on the right antenna it will move the whole head, but the undamaged antenna will give a bit of leeway if you nudge it.

Very happy with the finished effect, but will NOT be transforming Onslaught with the FP Bruticus head attached again -- trying to get the antenna into Onslaught's fist holes is not fun. Will probably end up picking the Crazy Devy replacement LED head (http://tfsource.com/products/view/product_id/4574/) up as insurance now that its finally in stock after waiting half a year.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii640/Suspectimus/DSC00319.jpg

Final shot with Devastator holding up Bruticus' severed torso whilst Shockwave operates :p

[kup]

Awesome that you got it fixed so well! I cannot see where the antenna broke to be honest, if you had not mentioned it was repaired, I would have never known.

Yeah, one of the biggest flaws of this set is how awkward the antennas position when you transform the toy. I reckon that they should have put then on rotating peg holes on the side of the head like they do for MP Prime's smoke stacks but that may have taken away some aesthetic value.

[Trent]

Awesome job. I would not have been able to pick the repair if I wasnt looking for it!

[SuspectimusPrime]

Thanks guys! Yeah the antenna's really the work of the devil, especially since there is so much clearance in the front cab of the truck.

The plastic actually did not make any snapping sound - which is why I didn't find out until I looked through the fist holes and found it looked weird. Also, I wanted to take some before shots, but when I took Onslaught out of storage after 3 months, the plastic simply held its proper position like nothing was wrong (until you touched it). Really good stuff :)

[Radical Cuztom Works]

Try using Shelly's Plastic super glue, it comes with a primer texter and works really good, if done properly it pretty much welds the plastic together

[Iriorne]

While transforming Green Giant the other night, I managed to damage the hinge that allows Hook/Mobile Crane to fold in half.The hinge is still attached but as you can see in the image below, there's a fracture that runs on the back, top and bottom of the hinge and some fairly serious stress marking on the far side.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/233731/OTCA/Giant_joint_sm.jpg
large (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/233731/OTCA/Giant_joint_lg.jpg)

I had a look around my local hobby shop yesterday and they have the Zap brand gap filling superglue and I also saw a two-part epoxy called J-B Weld (http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld/) that claims to have the "World's Strongest Bond".

Does anyone have a recommendation as to which might provide the best fix? Ideally I'd like to avoid further damage but how easy will it be to flow the glue into the crack? Would it be better to remove the hinge to allow better surface prep?

My current thinking is that the epoxy might allow me add some extra reinforcement on the sides of the hinge. The epoxy cures to a dark grey, but that's a less a concern to me than resilience of the bond as I'm pretty confident I can mix up a close-enough colour match.

[M-bot]

Not sure about the products you've mentioned but I would give you 2 definite recommendations: 1. Take the piece apart before you do any gluing, so that you make sure you get absolutely no glue on any other part, especially moving parts, and 2. Give it plenty of curing time - impatience is not your friend.

The second JB Weld may be the way to go, even if it cures grey, it can be sanded back, so might not be too difficult to make less visible afterwards.

Make sure you update us on how it goes.:)

[VERT]

Zap is an amazing glue. Love that stuff.

[Iriorne]

Thanks guys. After doing some more reading last night I've decided to try the Zap-a-Gap glue. The Zap glue has a much lower viscosity than the JB Weld which I'm hoping will make it easier to flow into the gap.

I picked some up this afternoon and will have a go at repairing over the weekend. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to separate the parts, the hinge pin looks like it's plastic and without the proper tools I don't want to risk damaging the pin or hinge further. This particular Zap glue is supposed to be about the consistency of maple syrup and I have a few millimetres of clearance so with care I should be able to keep it from getting everywhere.

Will let you know how it goes. :)

[SuspectimusPrime]

Thanks guys. After doing some more reading last night I've decided to try the Zap-a-Gap glue. The Zap glue has a much lower viscosity than the JB Weld which I'm hoping will make it easier to flow into the gap.

I picked some up this afternoon and will have a go at repairing over the weekend. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to separate the parts, the hinge pin looks like it's plastic and without the proper tools I don't want to risk damaging the pin or hinge further. This particular Zap glue is supposed to be about the consistency of maple syrup and I have a few millimetres of clearance so with care I should be able to keep it from getting everywhere.

Will let you know how it goes. :)

The viscosity of Loctite 406 is almost completely liquid. Its curing process is quoted to begin in 10 seconds, but it was almost immediate when I used it. I found it really helpful to do a lot of practice with various materials and get a good working understanding of how the substance works, and also to practice the slight of hand motion I needed for the minuscule space I was working with before trying it out on the real thing.

I'd strongly recommend the same since you're working so close to a moving pin/hinge joint. Wouldn't want not-Hook to remain in upper-torso mode for good.

I totally feel your pain from damaging a pricey item, best of luck with your project!

[kup]

Yeah it doesn't seem wise to disassemble it given the pin and the fragile joint. Going with the glue seems like the best shot. Just try to practice with the glue a bit before trying. Also see about covering up with thick masking tape the joint area so that if there is an accident, it doesn't spill on the plastic itself.

In the unfortunate event that it does break off completely, I would recommend pulling the pin out then and try to loosen up the joint. That way once you glue the piece back, it won't have anywhere as much friction and be less stressful on the plastic.

How did it happen anyways? First time I hear of this. I know this used to be a problem with G1 Hook.

[Iriorne]

Good news: the Zap-a-Gap glue seems to have done its job and after a few applications the crack has been completely filled. No photo, since it looks almost exactly the same, there's just a slight shine from the glue when it catches the light. It's not a very high stress joint (usually!) so with a little care I don't expect any more problems. :)


How did it happen anyways? First time I hear of this.

Yeah, it was totally my fault. I was converting him back from combined mode and applied too much torsional stress to the hinge. There's a grey latch on Mobile crane to help keep the two halves together in combined mode. It's pretty flexible anyway but you have to bend it quite a bit to detach. To lessen the stress on it while detaching I twisted the crane halves apart a little as well. It seemed like a good idea at the time but I wasn't thinking about where all that stress would end up - in the hinge attachment point. The plastic is quite hard so there was very little movement until the plastic suddenly gave in and twisted.

Anyway, lesson learned: Flexible plastic is for bending. :o

For anyone who needs to apply glue to small fiddly bits, there's a good modeller's trick that's equally applicable to toy repairs.

Rather than squeeze glue direct from the bottle onto the part, squeeze a drop or two onto a non-porous surface like a ceramic tile or an old plate. I use glass microscope slides but bottle tops or even greaseproof or waxed paper might work. You can then dip a sewing pin or toothpick into the puddle of glue and pick up a small bead of glue, which you can then apply to the part, giving you much finer control over the amount and placement of the glue. If bits are completely snapped off you can even dip the end directly into the glue puddle for an even coat.

[Trent]

Good news: the Zap-a-Gap glue seems to have done its job and after a few applications the crack has been completely filled. No photo, since it looks almost exactly the same, there's just a slight shine from the glue when it catches the light. It's not a very high stress joint (usually!) so with a little care I don't expect any more problems. :)



Yeah, it was totally my fault. I was converting him back from combined mode and applied too much torsional stress to the hinge. There's a grey latch on Mobile crane to help keep the two halves together in combined mode. It's pretty flexible anyway but you have to bend it quite a bit to detach. To lessen the stress on it while detaching I twisted the crane halves apart a little as well. It seemed like a good idea at the time but I wasn't thinking about where all that stress would end up - in the hinge attachment point. The plastic is quite hard so there was very little movement until the plastic suddenly gave in and twisted.

Anyway, lesson learned: Flexible plastic is for bending. :o

For anyone who needs to apply glue to small fiddly bits, there's a good modeller's trick that's equally applicable to toy repairs.

Rather than squeeze glue direct from the bottle onto the part, squeeze a drop or two onto a non-porous surface like a ceramic tile or an old plate. I use glass microscope slides but bottle tops or even greaseproof or waxed paper might work. You can then dip a sewing pin or toothpick into the puddle of glue and pick up a small bead of glue, which you can then apply to the part, giving you much finer control over the amount and placement of the glue. If bits are completely snapped off you can even dip the end directly into the glue puddle for an even coat.

I don't use that latch for that very reason. Not using it doesn't affect the stability of the combined mode at all. Just a tip for the future.