Just watched Beast Wars - should I watch Beast Machines?

[Trent]

So, I just finished watching Beast Wars all the way through for the first time. I must say I'm very impressed and now hold that series in very high regard.

With all this in mind my question is as follows:

Should I watch Beast Machines??

I mean, is it really that bad?? Should I not watch it? Do you wish it purged from your mind and find yourself envying me for the fact that my mind has not yet been polluted with the tripe that is Beast Machines?

Or is it something that I should still watch despite how bad it is? Do I approach it with stupidly low expectations, thus being presently surprised( this is the reason I like the first Bay movie).

????????

[Quickstrike]

It's not bad at all. It's different (I'm not going to say that it's better or worse) than Beast Wars but it's totally worth watching.

[theheretic]

So, I just finished watching Beast Wars all the way through for the first time. I must say I'm very impressed and now hold that series in very high regard.

With all this in mind my question is as follows:

Should I watch Beast Machines??

I mean, is it really that bad?? Should I not watch it? Do you wish it purged from your mind and find yourself envying me for the fact that my mind has not yet been polluted with the tripe that is Beast Machines?

Or is it something that I should still watch despite how bad it is? Do I approach it with stupidly low expectations, thus being presently surprised( this is the reason I like the first Bay movie).

????????
I liked Beast Machines better than BW! Except the last few episodes went down hill FAST and the ending went full retard... And we all know you never go full retard.

[SuspectimusPrime]

So, I just finished watching Beast Wars all the way through for the first time. I must say I'm very impressed and now hold that series in very high regard.

With all this in mind my question is as follows:

Should I watch Beast Machines??

I mean, is it really that bad?? Should I not watch it? Do you wish it purged from your mind and find yourself envying me for the fact that my mind has not yet been polluted with the tripe that is Beast Machines?

Or is it something that I should still watch despite how bad it is? Do I approach it with stupidly low expectations, thus being presently surprised( this is the reason I like the first Bay movie).

????????

It's not bad at all. It's different (I'm not going to say that it's better or worse) than Beast Wars but it's totally worth watching.

I only got around to watching it as a grown adult and enjoyed it enough to rewatch it along with BW :) As a series, it's got a good tempo and intrigue to it. (Skipped through DOTM today, and still found that hard to enjoy).

With BM, I did find myself toy hunting for one particularly noble character afterwards :) Most people would agree that the storyline quality to toy quality comparison ratio was better than BW (writers did a very good job at selling bad toys!) :p


I liked Beast Machines better than BW! Except the last few episodes went down hill FAST and the ending went full retard... And we all know you never go full retard.

Kind of like G1 Season 4? Except that probably went full retard faster :p

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Do I approach it with stupidly low expectations, thus being presently surprised( this is the reason I like the first Bay movie).

????????Do this one,and enjoy the good moments it offers up - there are a handful of good episodes amongst all the tripe. If you can mentally/emotionally separate it from it's predecessor it's not a bad show, but as a follow-up to BW it kinda falls flat - especially re. the characterisation.:(

[Hursticon]

So, I just finished watching Beast Wars all the way through for the first time. I must say I'm very impressed and now hold that series in very high regard.

With all this in mind my question is as follows:

Should I watch Beast Machines??

I mean, is it really that bad?? Should I not watch it? Do you wish it purged from your mind and find yourself envying me for the fact that my mind has not yet been polluted with the tripe that is Beast Machines?

Or is it something that I should still watch despite how bad it is? Do I approach it with stupidly low expectations, thus being presently surprised( this is the reason I like the first Bay movie).

????????

1st of all, thank you and good on you for sitting down and giving Beast Wars the proper time that it deserves - The fact that you came out really liking it is a bonus, I just wish more people who beat on it (because they only saw 3 or less episodes of the 1st season :rolleyes:) would do exactly what you've done. ;):)

Now, before I begin you'll have to understand that I was one of the kids who was of the target age when Beast Wars originally aired :o; so when it ended and that was it (I spent a year waiting for new episodes that never eventuated :(:rolleyes::p), I have some rather heavily tinted glasses if you know what I mean - But...

In all honesty, Beast Machines isn't that bad & holds its own well - So long as you view it as its own standalone show and (IMO) forget about any links it may or may not have with the superior preceding series. :D
It explores some rather dark things which is great but it also got very preachy in an almost religious sense, it also introduced some rather cool characters (Striker is one of the coolest Fembots!) and also some of the single worst excuses to market a toy since Wheelie (I'm looking at you Nightscream :mad:).

There is also a character concept that I don't think has really been explored since Beast Machines, I'd like to see more of it but (Without spoiling it) you'll know exactly who I'm referring to if you keep the concept of a Rocklord in mind. ;)

Trent, I say watch it even if it's just so that you can say you have; You'll have a better understanding as to why most dislike it and why some (Like myself) utterly detest its existence. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

Beast Machines...

PROS
+ Great animation -- leaps and bounds better than Beast Wars
+ Deep and philosophically intellectual story engages the adult mind, and it's the most dystopic story ever written for a TF cartoon.
+ There is no good or evil. Morality is completely subjective (as it is IRL).
+ Also helps to further enhance the G1 continuity family (though not as well as BW IMO)
+ No humans! :D

CONS
+ Story pacing can be slow at times. Some plot elements drag on for too long -- and there's a certain catchphrase that's repeatedly drilled into your skulls so often you'll be sick to death of hearing it.
+ Maximals' technorganic forms and transformations look weird. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Vehicons look pretty cool though.
+ Evolution of some characters is inconsistent with Beast Wars (and it should be consistent since it's the sequel to BW). Other characters are evolved well though -- but yeah, it's not consistent across all characters.
+ There's a new character who's really annoying and you just want to slap him.
+ The deep/meaningful and dark dystopia thing turns some people off. There's very few light hearted moments in this show; it would be dull for kids and some adult fans didn't like it because they enjoy TF shows that are more "fun."
+ The ending is highly controversial and essentially dead ends the G1 continuity family (arguably this is why the G1 continuity family came to an effective halt after BM and since then we've just had continuity reboots).

My overall opinion? It's a very good show. But not a great sequel to Beast Wars and maybe not necessarily a great Transformers story -- but it is a good story in its own right. It's a better sequel than Revenge of the Fallen, I'll give it that. :p

[Sky Shadow]

Beast Machines is great and works really well as a solid story arc from beginning to end. I actually disagree about forgetting about Beast Wars - the fact that it mindscrews over all the Beast Wars characters is one of the best things about it. It's better than the Armada, Energon, Cybertron or Prime cartoons. Watch it.


+ There's a new character who's really annoying and you just want to slap him.

I think almost every Transformers franchise has someone who needs a good slapping. I spent all of Beast Wars wanting to slap Cheetor, and he's actually not too bad in Beast Machines.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think almost every Transformers franchise has someone who needs a good slapping. I spent all of Beast Wars wanting to slap Cheetor, and he's actually not too bad in Beast Machines.
Hahah, yeah, he was one of the characters I was referring to when I said that some of the characters did evolve well. In fact, I think he was the best developed character in the show. :)

[Hursticon]

Hahah, yeah, he was one of the characters I was referring to when I said that some of the characters did evolve well. In fact, I think he was the best developed character in the show. :)

Wish the bloody music evolved; I haven't watched the show in years and I can still hear that oh so repeated tune in my head! :p

[Autocon]

Beast Machines went to slow to move the story forward. Alot like those soap shows that drag lingering looks for 15 seconds. It was more dogged in that the maximals were never on the front foot, always trying to run away.

Need to rewatch them I suppose

[1orion2many]

I did enjoy the BM series (not as good as BW though), My biggest gripe was what they did to two main characters. The nearest thing that could explain the change in them would be split personalities because there was no way in hell they were even vaguely related to their original personas in Beast Wars.

[Trent]

Thanks for the replies people. Good to hear that it's not as bad as I originally thought.

Oh and Hursty, it's not that I assumed Beast Wars was crap as the reason it's taken me this long to watch it, it's that I just never got around to watching it. As a 15/16 year old when it was on tv I was just caught up in other things, you know, chasing girls, making orange guns, water bombing Pauline Hanson, you know, teenager stuff. :D

Although while I previously had zero Interest in the toys, the show sure does a good job of marketing them :o

[Hursticon]

Oh and Hursty, it's not that I assumed Beast Wars was crap as the reason it's taken me this long to watch it, it's that I just never got around to watching it. As a 15/16 year old when it was on tv I was just caught up in other things, you know, chasing girls, making orange guns, water bombing Pauline Hanson, you know, teenager stuff. :D

Sorry dude, it certainly wasn't my intention to paint you with the same brush :o - I just meant to make a point that those who DO "poopoo" it should actually give it a fair chance. ;):)

Ah see you were a couple of years older than myself at the time, as I was 11/12 but that said I don't blame you for having higher priorities at the time - Lobbing water bombs at Pauline Hanson in her Prime is something I'll never get to experience. :p:D

[kup]

In my view Beast Machines is totally worth watching. However I would try not to expect a 'Transformers' cartoon and try to judge it by it's own merits as it is totally different to anything that existed before (or after) in the way plot, factions and characters are handled.

Also try to have a more 'flexible' mind frame when it comes to continuity from Beast Wars to Beast Machines. As Gok mentioned, character development from one series to the next is not logical and several character personalities are drastically changed. I think that the most 'logical' character progression is Cheetor but everyone else seems to get considerable and sudden personality revamps.

Some of the BW and G1 continuity is a bit misinterpreted or misunderstood this time around. It is clear that the writers for BM did not do their research as well as Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward had done for Beast Wars. Without too many spoilers, you will see odd things on Cybertron that do not make much sense continuity wise like the multiple use of a prominent G1 character design as a 'generic cybertronian' or statues of a G1 character holding objects that were prominent in the previous series but make no sense for this character to hold them.

In short, try to go into Beast Machines with a neutral 'fresh' perspective without expectations. Evaluate the series on it's own merits and you may come out enjoying it as it is still well written in a unique 'UnTransformers' sort of way.

[klystron]

No.
Just no.

[liegeprime]

Yeah watch it, just gets a bit of getting used to the character art though, as it's really more organic even in "bot" mode. Vehicons wise they dont look like the conventional transformers look we get - more like Dr Who casts really :):p but although not as enjoyable as BW, BM has it's own merits. Although as Gok said it kinda placed a period in the end for TF G1 line....I for one aint really that satisfied with how it ended. Oh well.

[BigTransformerTrev]

It's not bad at all. It's different (I'm not going to say that it's better or worse) than Beast Wars but it's totally worth watching.

What he said :D

[aaron2]

Its not that bad....can be watchable:D Go for it.....

[snazzbot 101]

My feelings towards Beasts Machines are mixed.

The DVD version I have talks with it about it being a 26 episode half-hour religious version movie for television. That's all fine and good, but there was so much filler.

And so much Creator wants to shoehorn a message where it shouldnt need to go...

[kup]

My feelings towards Beasts Machines are mixed.

The DVD version I have talks with it about it being a 26 episode half-hour religious version movie for television. That's all fine and good, but there was so much filler.

And so much Creator wants to shoehorn a message where it shouldnt need to go...

Yeah the pseudo religious and social political indentations in the plot can get tiring, specially so when they are one of the main factors that take the 'Transformers' feel out of the show and turns it into something else.

[Trent]

Just watched the first episode.


So far I'm unimpressed. But I'll give it a chance.

[Trent]

Soooooo… it took a while, but I managed to get through it. While it wasn't as bad as some people would have you believe, it was a far cry from great. I can see why a lot of people wouldn't have liked it. It was so dramatically different in concept and execution, to anything that had came before, that if you didn't know what to expect, it would be hard to swallow.

I'm busy cooking pancakes right now so don't really have time to type up all my thoughts, but I can see why it failed as a series. Their were some pretty heavy themes going on, not the sort of stuff that would keep a 7-8 year old amused. Overall though Jetstorm was my favourite. And Primal annoyed me a bit.

But as far as the ending goes, I don't see how people think it dead ended G1. It just changed the way it would go forward. It fact reading up on Transtech, it looked like it had quite a bit of potential. At least the character designs are pretty awesome.

But yeah. Glad I watched it, even if it wasn't all that great.

[GoktimusPrime]

But as far as the ending goes, I don't see how people think it dead ended G1. It just changed the way it would go forward.
If they wanted to continue from Beast Machines, a writer would need to either:

(a) Pick up the ball and run with it. Cybertron and all the Transformers are still technorganic.

(b) Undo what Beast Machines did. Some plot device comes along an untechnorganifies everything and everyone, making everything mechanical again and the story can progress from there. Problem with this is that it makes the entire story of Beast Machines kinda pointless. The Maximals' struggles and Optimus Primal's sacrifice becomes ultimately meaningless.

(c) Do a "divergent reboot" and just ignore the events of Beast Machines, continuing from where Beast Wars ended. Simon Furman's doing the same thing with ReGeneration One where he's ignored the events of Earth-120185 and Generation 2, and purely continuing from the events of Earth-91274.

So option A is the only one where you can continue from the end of BM without undoing or ignoring anything that BM established. In other words, you more or less have to create more Beast Machines, i.e. "go back the way you just came." That's what people mean when they say "dead ending" continuity.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I still vote for (d) Rattrap/Blackarachnia/Silverbolt/pretty much anyone from BW left alive at the end of BM (Waspinator is my preference) wakes up from their terrible dream:p en route to Cybertron (or back on Earth after a particularly heavy sugar-binge)...and BW+ promptly picks up with the Maximals nearing home in their borrowed shuttle.:cool:

Between:
-most of the Maximals - and Megatron - now being some of the most powerful beings on the planet thanks to their various levels of reformatting...
-the Maximal Elders (at least initially) attempting to keep the existence and/or circumstances of the returned Maximals/Maximals' return secret (i.e. hush up the entire thing - bear in mind that part of their initial mission was to quietly dump Protoform X somewhere), and possible/probable assassination attempts from the Tripredacus Council/other Predacon factions...
-the Transmetal-ised returnees arguably representing a 'new step of evolution' for the Cybertronian race, which certain Maximal Elders *cough*IDW-style-Prowl*cough* may want to take advantage of/try to replicate...
-Megatron's inevitable escape from captivity and eventually taking over/becoming the hidden power behind the Predacon Alliance - after a suitably epic battle against Tripredacus and any other interested parties of course (also not forgetting that Cryotek and whatever's left of his organisation are still out there somewhere)...
-possible appearances from the Vok, who are aware of Cybertron and may not be happy with things like the Maximals attempting to replicate/mass produce technology based in part on their influence - especially considering that the Transmetal Driver was never destroyed in the series IIRC...
...there's a lot of potential for a good story with enough plot/character development and political maneuvering to be interesting.

Pity it'll never happen.:(

[griffin]

I lost interest/support for Beast Machines the moment Rhinox was corrupted and killed, after being the backbone of Beast Wars. Primal may have been the leader, but it was always Rhinox taking charge, finding the solutions, or being the vital support needed to defeat the Predacons.... I felt that it was disrespectful for the writers of Beast Machines to treat the real hero of Beast Wars that way.

[GoktimusPrime]

Trent: I'm curious to know if, after watching the show, you now feel compelled to go buy the toys? Cos as we all know, at the end of the day the core purpose of a Transformers story is to sell toys. ;)


I still vote for (d) Rattrap/Blackarachnia/Silverbolt/pretty much anyone from BW left alive at the end of BM (Waspinator is my preference) wakes up from their terrible dream:p en route to Cybertron (or back on Earth after a particularly heavy sugar-binge)...and BW+ promptly picks up with the Maximals nearing home in their borrowed shuttle.:cool:
That's pretty much Option B -- hitting the "Undo" button. :D

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I prefer to think of it as Option BC+ - "It never happened, you can't prove anything, *puts fingers in ears* I CAN'T HEAR YOU!":p

As Hursty said back on the first page, BM is actually a pretty decent little series in it's own right, it's just that it's not a good sequel to Beast Wars. Which is kind of a pity, 'cos between the various different factions vying for power on Cybertron, the secrecy of the BW Maximal crew's mission and experiences, the tensions between the Predacons and Maximals on Cybertron, and the impact of suddenly having this small team of mostly-incredibly-powerful-by-current-Cybertronian-standards (let's face it, chances are that Optimal Optimus and TM2 Megs would be some of if not the most powerful Transformers on Cybertron at that point) and battle-hardened veterans of the Beast Wars suddenly showing up on Cybertron there's the potential for some really good story-telling there.

[Hursticon]

Which is kind of a pity, 'cos between the various different factions vying for power on Cybertron, the secrecy of the BW Maximal crew's mission and experiences, the tensions between the Predacons and Maximals on Cybertron, and the impact of suddenly having this small team of mostly-incredibly-powerful-by-current-Cybertronian-standards (let's face it, chances are that Optimal Optimus and TM2 Megs would be some of if not the most powerful Transformers on Cybertron at that point) and battle-hardened veterans of the Beast Wars suddenly showing up on Cybertron there's the potential for some really good story-telling there.

^THIS^ ;):cool:

I'd of loved to of seen this avenue explored. :o
(Hence why I love what Verno has done with his Vernoverse (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12297) & TransWarp (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=13226&highlight=transwarp) FanFic series ;):cool:)


I'm glad you finally got all the way through the Beast Machines series Trent, it definitely is a different 'Beast' huh? - It certainly has its place in the TF Universe, WAAAAYYY at the back of the shelf. :p

[Verno]

I'm in complete agreeance with you lads -- There was so much potential for a terrific post-BW story that was just ignored.

It's a shame Furman tied the end of the Ascending BW comic into the start of BM. It would have been a great opportunity to break off into a new direction.