Secret Sightings Section idea

[griffin]

And on the flip-side there are collectors who don't want to sign up to this site who see us as the problem, the reason they can't find stock anywhere.

That's true... however, this site aims to assist the dedicated collectors - ones who are big enough fans to interact with and assist other collectors. If this site helps out random people or "temporary"/nostalgic fans at the expense of those here who are fans for the long-term, I think those that are dedicated enough to join here would feel that those toys were wasted on people who wouldn't have treasured it, or even kept it, like they would have.

When it is a rare item or limited edition figure, who is going to better value it or be more deserving of it...
- the kid who isn't a collector and didn't even know this toy existed (given it as a random present and just trashes it or throws it away within a few months),
- the adult who had something similar as a kid (but isn't a collector of any other TFs, so could import it if they really wanted something nostalgic at any cost),
- the short-term collector who is going through a phase so doesn't have much interest interacting with other fans (may join up here, but never see any activity from them, and just sells off, hands off or throws away their toys a few months later),
- a scalper that is just going to resell it online or at a collector fair at huge markup,
- or the long-term collector who will look after the toy and collects other Transformers, so needs to keep the costs down as much as possible (by not paying scalper prices or importing from more expensive sources).

I don't want it to sound selfish, but as much as I'd like to see newer collectors inspired to be involved in the fandom, if there is a limited release figure that is "high end" like a Masterpiece (that is targeting those that are already dedicated collectors), I think we need to prioritise them first, and then if there is enough to go around, help out those who are new who are also interested.
It is just not easy to pre-determine which figures are going to be limited release here, or have more demand than quantity.
And even if we had a sub-section for just the active members, for rarer figures, we are still going to have people of lower ranks reporting them in the regular sightings section... negating the point of a "secret sightings section".

If ever Hasbro or TRU (or any retailer) wanted to share with us on a regular basis some upcoming release info, that was limited quantity, then I'd consider a "secret sightings section"... which would also encourage junior members to be more involved in the fandom to earn access.
But for now - sightings will stay as they are.
(maybe for the next MP toys - if Soundwave & Sideswipe come here - I might look at a trial to see if it helps or hinders the process)

[Robzy]

(maybe for the next MP toys - if Soundwave & Sideswipe come here - I might look at a trial to see if it helps or hinders the process)
Good idea!! :)

[Paul Agnew]

Griffin, does it help that I want an MP Thundercracker because a) I for one happen to like the character, and b) yet to own an MP figure outside of the Prime/Magnus mold from way back?

[UltraMarginal]

- the kid who isn't a collector and didn't even know this toy existed (given it as a random present and just trashes it or throws it away within a few months),
- the adult who had something similar as a kid (but isn't a collector of any other TFs, so could import it if they really wanted something nostalgic at any cost),
- the short-term collector who is going through a phase so doesn't have much interest interacting with other fans (may join up here, but never see any activity from them, and just sells off, hands off or throws away their toys a few months later),


Any one of these three "examples", getting hold of something like this could easily become a much more serious collector as a result of exposure to such good engineering.

I think, as a community, we have to realise that there are a lot of Transformers collectors who are very serious about collecting who just aren't aware of the forum or couldn't be bothered becoming involved in the forum, but are still very dedicated collectors in one way or another.

I know I was collecting pretty seriously before I was ever aware of the forum and prior to joining this forum had never been a member of any online community, even after being made aware of the forum it was months before I even considered joining as online socializing was something I just never did.

the sightings threads are very useful to us, and others will use them as well, it's an open forum so I can only assume they are welcome to. If Scalpers use us, that's crap but if these threads promote more sales, all it's going to do in the long run is give Hasbro and Takara more incentive to develop more cool toys for us. win.

[1orion2many]

:confused:I don't know if I'd call it a win if I never see the thing in stores:rolleyes:

[UltraMarginal]

:confused:I don't know if I'd call it a win if I never see the thing in stores:rolleyes:

I expect there'll be more MP 10's, just like there were more rodimus'. My win Reference is more of a long term Win for collecting and the fandom.:D:cool: and Hasbro for potentially making more profit by selling more ...

[griffin]

I just want to be clear that this wouldn't be something for the purpose of punishing people for not joining. This is like society in general - for people to benefit from a larger society/community of people, each person needs to contribute to that society/community.
Conversely, if people aren't willing or able to contribute, shouldn't the benefits, like the sightings of rarer items, be first available to those who do contribute here (with sightings, news, info, meets)... and if there is enough stock to satisfy those contributors here, the sightings would be relocated into the regular (public) sightings section.

I do understand that there is a large lurker presence here, and people utilise this site without ever joining. That's there prerogative. They aren't being excluded, because most sightings would still be publicly accessible, even the rarer items that start off in a hidden sub-section (if this idea ever went ahead).
It's not trying to be an elitist thing.... it is all about supply and demand - if this country will only ever have a certain amount of a particular figure released here, that is not likely to cover all serious collectors, partial collectors, nostalgic buyers, and kids/parents - as an established community that only exists thanks to the efforts of the more dedicated collectors here, we need to help out those who help make this place possible in the first place.
People who are scalpers, or choose not to join up, or choose not to help out if they do join (even if it is just sightings)... are not the people who built this place up to be the reputable source for toy info and sightings that they use for free, so are not the people we should be helping when something is hard to find.
There are hundreds of other Transformers toys out there that won't be affected by this idea, that they can still see in our regular sightings section.

[Tober]

This crossed my mind a while back, as well as 'syndicates' similar to the Melbourne one that was active a while ago, where local members would try to acquire TFs for each other.

One of the biggest hurdles would be stopping rank 5 members and below posting in the sighting section once they learn of it, say, through TFW2005's Aussie sightings, or seeing it themselves.

I'm in favor of the member sightings section mostly to stop scalpers though.

[Cat]

Yep, I was thinking of this exact idea today.

I was lucky and got a MP 'Cracker, but many others weren't so lucky. They sold out within 10 minutes of store opening.

How did people know they were out Wednesday? Sure, some undoubtedly rang. But some of this info wasn't really told to everyone from what I hear.

It was all shared on here though: exactly when they'd be out, and when the store had received them.

TC wasn't in the catalogue either.

Sure I want to help everyone get one. But there's guys I know here who missed out. They're active participating members. I'd rather my info help them first.

It's not like anyone wants a page-long list of requirements to see the thread. Just a basic membership. If you won't take two minutes to sign up, then I don't want to do your shopping for you.

Hopefully then they'll participate themselves.

What reasonable rebuttal could unregistered members give to this idea?

They'd still know an item was out, as it'd be in the headers or what-have-you.

They just wouldn't see exact details.

I don't see it as elitist. It's a perk of membership, which is free, and doesn't discriminate. It's also not something offered by the site owner. It's the cumulative knowledge of the user-base that provides most of the sightings info. Griffin is 1 person. We are many.

It's also not stopping someone from being pro-active, the same way we are. It's not blocking anyone from getting an item.


Edit: Har. I see there's mention of it being for those above rank 5, so I wouldn't be able to see it. So as someone who would be left out, I still don't have a problem with it. All my prior statements still stand.

[Robzy]

This is one of the reasons why, for years, I would ONLY post that I'd found a certain figure in stores. If people (from my state) wanted to know where, I'd PM them, so that it wasn't visible in the thread. I still do!

It's not generally an issue these days (except for these new Masterpiece figures!!) like it was a few years ago, with ultra rare or low production figures.

[jazzcomp]

Am in agreement with this

[Aqua Prime]

I think the problem is easy. Close the sightings thread and leave it open to members only. That will minimise scalpers. It won't stop them entirely, but it at least gives the members a fighting chance.

[GoktimusPrime]

Suggestion: How about if anyone finds a hard-to-find toy, reserve them all and then post the sighting location and reservation name.

e.g. "I just reserved a MP10 at TRU Parramatta under the name Daniel Witwicky." -- cos when I picked up my reserved MP10 they never asked me for ID. <shrug> The plus side of this idea is that it won't exclude lurking non-member collectors. The down side is that it won't exclude lurking scalpers either. Unless we combine this with Robzy's idea...


This is one of the reasons why, for years, I would ONLY post that I'd found a certain figure in stores. If people (from my state) wanted to know where, I'd PM them, so that it wasn't visible in the thread. I still do!
^So perhaps you post that you have sighted and reserved all figures, but don't post the store location or reservation name. If anyone wants this, they can PM you. If any lurking non-members really want to know bad enough, they can just register. :rolleyes:

And I agree with griffin's sentiments -- I think with very rare, limited and highly sought after toys like MP10 and MP TC, priority ought to be given to the more long time dedicated fans. Like when I missed out on MP10 at TRU Parra by 2 minutes, I was really upset. But later when I learnt that it was Starscream77 who'd beaten me, I felt better knowing that the toy had been purchased by a fellow collector and not some "random mook" or scalper.

So yeah... if I happen to see MP10 or MPTC, I'm thinking about reserving them and just saying that it's been sighted and reserved on the sightings thread, then anyone who wants it can PM me for the reservation name and store location. I don't need MP10 anymore, and MPTC just doesn't interest me, but I'm happy to reserve them for others if I see them.

I'm also not adverse to the idea of either closing off the entire sightings section to members only. If people really want to access this section badly enough, they should register. If we make it like the Salesyard or Meets section where new members are excluded, I think that's fine too -- again, if people really want to access it bad enough, they'll register and participate actively enough to get their rank bumped up. Just explain the rules section that this rule is in place to prevent assisting scalpers (which would be true). I'm sure new members can appreciate that.

[Lint]

I don't agree with this at all :mad:

I joined this forum because a google search led me to the sightings thread which led me to an acquisition win.

At first when I was very active in retail toy hunting I felt that the sightings thread should be restricted to members only but I now realise that it is arguably one of the biggest reasons why people would join this forum in the first place.

I managed to pick up MP-10 because I was willing (and I guess able) to put in the hard yards to go hunt for it, assisted by a rolling update of sightings (and non-sightings) in the sightings thread. I also sighted MP Thundercracker, simliarly by putting in the effort to go out and look for it.

I honestly am beginning to think scalpers don't thrive in Australia anyway given the following factors:
-US prices are far better than AU ones, importing is cheaper than retail
-If scalpers are purely motivated by profit, it is a lot of effort to put in (keeping updated with exclusives, prices and sightings) for a, comparatively, little gain.
-We beat them to it, every single time. Either by forming syndicates or simply by pure dedication to the hunt. We are our own worst enemy and are growing in number.

Besides which a real clever scalper would be or have friends in retail who would reserve them stock as soon as it hits the shelves, thereby bypassing the 'sightings' process.

If understand that many of us are frustrated by recent events but if you are truly concerned that you or other members will miss out on a toy then DON'T POST IN THE SIGHTINGS THREAD. I'm sure many of us do this already, myself included.

But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members) and you want to be able to obtain a toy by refreshing a page on webpage that most other people can't see and then make a phone call.

[Robzy]

^So perhaps you post that you have sighted and reserved all figures, but don't post the store location or reservation name. If anyone wants this, they can PM you. If any lurking non-members really want to know bad enough, they can just register. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but if it's ultra rare, I'm not gonna go giving info away to people who have just registered, never posted, and then PM'd me for details am I? By the time they went to all that effort (and waited for the registration process to go through), one of the regulars would have already already contacted me. I look out for my friends on Ozformers the same way that many have helped me out over the years!




But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members)
I don't think anyone has said that. Ozformers is a community, not a general service to the public. If anyone wants to be part of that community, then I welcome them to join. But saying a lurker (who may or may not be a scalper) should enjoy all the same benefits from a *free* online community that its members do, isn't something I agree with.

Like you said, "clever scalpers" will find another way. It's not like Ozformers is hiding information that the general public couldn't find out anyway. I'm sure there are TF collectors who work at TRU that aren't members of Ozformers... they can take the stock right from the back room before it even hits the shelves. That's an advantage too, and good luck to them.

For me, it's not "elitism", it's about giving my friends (members here) a head start! :)



At first when I was very active in retail toy hunting I felt that the sightings thread should be restricted to members only but I now realise that it is arguably one of the biggest reasons why people would join this forum in the first place.

To be clear, I think the proposition (which isn't a new one) is for ultra rare and low production items only. I'm pretty sure the intention would still be to have general access sightings threads for 99% of the TFs sold.

[Trent]

While I get what you are saying Lint, I do disagree with some of the things you have said:


I managed to pick up MP-10 because I was willing (and I guess able) to put in the hard yards to go hunt for it, assisted by a rolling update of sightings (and non-sightings) in the sightings thread. I also sighted MP Thundercracker, simliarly by putting in the effort to go out and look for it.

I don't necessarily have the time to go hunting for toys. Wollongong has 1 TRU. The next nearest is Miranda. 1 hour up the road. After that it's Campbelltown, and further into the city. That's a lot of 'hard yards' to put in to go look for a toy. This is why the sightings thread is so awesome, it saves us the time of spending potentially hours in the car. We can go straight to the sighted store. WIN:cool:


I honestly am beginning to think scalpers don't thrive in Australia anyway given the following factors:
-US prices are far better than AU ones, importing is cheaper than retail
-If scalpers are purely motivated by profit, it is a lot of effort to put in (keeping updated with exclusives, prices and sightings) for a, comparatively, little gain.
-We beat them to it, every single time. Either by forming syndicates or simply by pure dedication to the hunt. We are our own worst enemy and are growing in number.

You can't tell me that the days that MP-10 went on sale, that scalpers werent the ones buying them up. We have reports of 6 going from one store via one person, 4 from Wollongong, etc. Add to that the fact that TRU had a 25% off coupon for that time and that would make a pretty attrative deal for those who are that way inclined. Hell, you couldn't import them for that price!

And it's not that much effort anyway. How hard is it to once a day look at a bookmarked page to see whats new? I do it nearly every day, so could anyone.


Besides which a real clever scalper would be or have friends in retail who would reserve them stock as soon as it hits the shelves, thereby bypassing the 'sightings' process.

I doubt this. Maybe some, but most would do their research via internet and phonecalls.


If understand that many of us are frustrated by recent events but if you are truly concerned that you or other members will miss out on a toy then DON'T POST IN THE SIGHTINGS THREAD. I'm sure many of us do this already, myself included.

But if we post in the sightings thread, it's usually because we have just been to that store, seen that toy and bought it. And now we'd like to share that info with other board members who are as exited as we are. It's like me with MP-10, I saw 5 in TRU on a Thursday arvo. Didn't buy one myself as I wasn't sure whether I wanted it enough. About half an hour later posted on here that I saw it. 1 board member got one, the other 4 were bought by one other person, as far as we can tell, not of these boards. And this happened within an afternoon! While not conclusive evidence, it is certainly suspicious. And I am a glass-half-empty sort of person, so assume the worst.


But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members) and you want to be able to obtain a toy by refreshing a page on webpage that most other people can't see and then make a phone call.

It's hardly elitism. If we werent concerned about missing out on these toys and then seeing an abundance of them at the next Parra Fair for double the price, this thread would not exist. It's about fairness, and trying to hinder those that abuse the system.

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out our differences of opinion.:)

[Lint]

I don't think anyone has said that. Ozformers is a community, not a general service to the public. If anyone wants to be part of that community, then I welcome them to join. But saying a lurker (who may or may not be a scalper) should enjoy all the same benefits from a *free* online community that its members do, isn't something I agree with.


My point is people, such as myself, would not have joined if there wasn't a *free service* to attract me to the community. Maybe it's just me but I'd rather miss out on a toy than deprive this board a mechanism by which to gain new members.



To be clear, I think the proposition (which isn't a new one) is for ultra rare and low production items only. I'm pretty sure the intention would still be to have general access sightings threads for 99% of the TFs sold.

You're still endorising a policy which is justified by you deserving the ultra rare low production items over, as someone said, "some random mook". This is elitism. I really got back into transformers because I was gifted a high quality TF on my 21st as well as retail releases of Masterpieces. You could be depriving potential fans of these opportunities. Besides which, where do you draw the line with ultra rare and low production? Does it apply to short-packed figures and army-builders? I can see this restriction relaxing to "whatever we desire that is in short supply"





I don't necessarily have the time to go hunting for toys. Wollongong has 1 TRU. The next nearest is Miranda. 1 hour up the road. After that it's Campbelltown, and further into the city. That's a lot of 'hard yards' to put in to go look for a toy. This is why the sightings thread is so awesome, it saves us the time of spending potentially hours in the car. We can go straight to the sighted store. WIN:cool:

I sympathise with your logistical disadvantage. I come from WA where we have like 3 TRU's. Sightings can help a lot. But still, you want the sightings of things you want to be exclusive to you and not others. I still don't think this is fair.




You can't tell me that the days that MP-10 went on sale, that scalpers werent the ones buying them up. We have reports of 6 going from one store via one person, 4 from Wollongong, etc. Add to that the fact that TRU had a 25% off coupon for that time and that would make a pretty attrative deal for those who are that way inclined. Hell, you couldn't import them for that price!


Agree with you that it was a good price as I scored it myself. Sounds like you have a NSW scalper problem. Scalpers always gonna scalp though.




And it's not that much effort anyway. How hard is it to once a day look at a bookmarked page to see whats new? I do it nearly every day, so could anyone.

To keep on top of sightings, especially for something like MP-10, you'd have to be checking multiple times a day. Blink a day and you could miss it. Maybe the scalpers might not know this but if you exerted this kind of effort on the stock market or maybe even finding/trading antiques they could make far more money. It's not that much effort, but it seems to be an absurd amount of effort to make a small profit in my opinion. :rolleyes:



I doubt this.

Seen this happen with my own eyes, not for TFs mind you, but still...



But if we post in the sightings thread, it's usually because we have just been to that store, seen that toy and bought it. And now we'd like to share that info with other board members who are as exited as we are. It's like me with MP-10, I saw 5 in TRU on a Thursday arvo. Didn't buy one myself as I wasn't sure whether I wanted it enough. About half an hour later posted on here that I saw it. 1 board member got one, the other 4 were bought by one other person, as far as we can tell, not of these boards. And this happened within an afternoon! While not conclusive evidence, it is certainly suspicious. And I am a glass-half-empty sort of person, so assume the worst.


I'm a glass-half-full sort of person, especially for something like this. I'd say it was either a syndicate composed of board members, or at least someone buying them up for friends/associates. It is annoying for the rest of us, but is there really anything we can/should do to stop it besides beat them to it?



It's hardly elitism. If we werent concerned about missing out on these toys and then seeing an abundance of them at the next Parra Fair for double the price, this thread would not exist. It's about fairness, and trying to hinder those that abuse the system.

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out our differences of opinion.:)

Given such eyewitness accounts I have to agree that you have a Parra Fair scalper problem. Only thing I can say to that is, don't feed the scalpers? :(


The other problem with a private sightings section is what to do about the regular sightings section? Is it going to be moderated to delete sightings of 'exclusives?'. Do I have to visit the private sightings section to check what I can and can't post in the regular sightings section? What happens when a sufficient number of members have access to the private sightings and hence 'in-the-know demand' once again outstrips available supply? Do we have a super private sightings section?

I still think this is a poor solution for an unfortunate but not-that-prevalent problem. It seems the real problem here is that supply of exclusives is not meeting the demand more than anything.

[5FDP]

We already have enough hidden / restricted areas on the forum, I don't think we need another. If someone really wants a figure, there are numerous avenues in which to acquire it e.g. private PM's, group buys, reservations, laybys etc. without segregating ourselves from the wider online community.

Personally, I've never been in a situation whereby I've missed out on a figure that I've really wanted and that is due to both our sightings thread and the wonderful community of members we have here.

[VERT]

Not a bad idea at all. I see your point and its a good idea.

[Ravagecat]

I just want to be clear that this wouldn't be something for the purpose of punishing people for not joining. This is like society in general - for people to benefit from a larger society/community of people, each person needs to contribute to that society/community.
Conversely, if people aren't willing or able to contribute, shouldn't the benefits, like the sightings of rarer items, be first available to those who do contribute here (with sightings, news, info, meets)... and if there is enough stock to satisfy those contributors here, the sightings would be relocated into the regular (public) sightings section.

A lot of different point of views flying around here on this which is great...everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. :)

My 2 cents is with Griffin..we are a collecting community and the community should be privy to some information first. Albeit I've only been a member since March this year, but I have still be an avid collector for well over 10 years who fully appreciates the toys I have collected from various sources around the country/world...yes I have only just decided to take advantage of what a collecting community has to offer (knowledge, friendships, opinions, recommendations etc) but I signed up to OTCA for that exact purpose. I strongly believe that some information shared on this site should be only available to those who have taken the time to register and contribute.

"Clink"

[griffin]

I think some people are miss-interpreting this idea. It is NOT a complete restriction of the sightings section. The sightings section would remain public, forever.
This proposal is to create a sub-section off the sightings section, to temporarily house a single figure that is, or assessed to be, limited and in high demand. After the demand has ended, or the item is no longer limited, the topic could then be moved into the regular section for guests to then find the locations of the excess/unwanted items.
Then the people (like Lint and Robzy) can start posting their sensitive sightings again, and junior members & guests can still see and/or use the regular sightings section as they normally would.
It isn't restricting or preventing people - it sounds like it would actually increase usage of the sightings section, based on the comments of people who won't post sightings because of how public and open the regular section is.


How did people know they were out Wednesday? Sure, some undoubtedly rang. But some of this info wasn't really told to everyone from what I hear.

It was all shared on here though: exactly when they'd be out, and when the store had received them.

TC wasn't in the catalogue either.


That could be possible (especially since we are the most active toy-collector fansite in this country according to ratings sites), because we've had two news topics for the MP toys, plus 5 active states sightings topics, two review topics and even a discussion topic. The global fansites just have a handful of sightings posts, and a couple news postings that link back to our site.
I still think most of the limited stock ended up going to members here though, as sightings and acquisitions postings account for most (and in some places, all) of the quantity quoted in each TRU store.
Since we haven't seen OP & TC appearing on ebay (just one appearing at a fair, which could have been imported from America), it's fair to say that our constant sightings inundation has helped our members get first crack at most of the figures.
If we saw a heap of them appearing on ebay, then this selective concept would be more vital to the members here. At this stage, it is just a discussion... so don't anyone panic just yet, or get worked up over the comments being thrown around.


Sure I want to help everyone get one. But there's guys I know here who missed out. They're active participating members. I'd rather my info help them first.

This is the other side of the coin... I don't want members being deterred from posting sightings (like Robzy mentioned) on the assumption that their efforts are being used by people who don't even contribute here (or don't intend to, as a returning of the favour), over those who do.
If more people started feeling this way, members looking for certain items might not know about a specific location, and miss them before some parent or kid grabs it.
(again, that might sound elitist, but if a kid or parent is buying it at random, they'd be better off with any other random mass-released figure (nor would they care about what they are missing), and leave the rarer figure for a collector who will keep it and look after it)



They'd still know an item was out, as it'd be in the headers or what-have-you.

They just wouldn't see exact details.


That would be the idea, if this ever happened. The single item (not everything) would still be news, still be tweeted, still be on the header, still have a toy review topic, still be talked about on the global fansites, and even still be reported by members in the regular sightings section (it wouldn't be prohibited)... we would just have a rarely used subsection that would have the bulk of the locations by the more active members (Rank 5 and above) and any reservations or hidden items in the store, who are doing all the leg-work going around to all these stores, noting the details (prices and quantities) and taking the time to log in here and dictate it for the rest of us.
We as a community that aims to help out each other, should be rewarding this time and effort, and those who are doing all this work, or else, what's the point having a handful of members doing all the work for everyone else including non-members.


Edit: Har. I see there's mention of it being for those above rank 5, so I wouldn't be able to see it. So as someone who would be left out, I still don't have a problem with it. All my prior statements still stand.

That was just someone's assumption.
If this ever happened, it would include Rank 5, as that is the status of someone who is proactive here, and interacts frequently enough to benefit and earn access to information that some people already don't feel comfortable posting in the public sightings section.

And FYI - Rank 5 isn't hard to obtain either, as people who have at least 100 posts within their first 4-6 months earn it (most active members rack up 100 posts in a month, because it is easy to do if you are a dedicated or enthusiastic collector). Since scalpers could earn Rank 3 by posting up an introduction (it's an easy requirement for that rank), it wouldn't be much of a restriction to have it easy to access within a day of joining here.
(Rank 2 and 4 are not local fan rankings, so are leap-frogged by actual local fans - Rank 1 (registered or inactive), 3 (proven fan) and 5 (active fan) are all that applies here)


Agree with this - helping out mates
Is this for all states?

To expand on the first paragraph above, the proposed attached sub-section to the public sightings section would require Rank 5 or higher to access it, and would just have a single topic in it for the specific figure that is limited. Anyone from anywhere could post in it, to keep it small and clean, either with a sighting or with a reservation/hidden location, or even if they bought a spare to share with the first nearest person (if they wanted).
After the demand has died down, or the item is refreshed enough to not be fought over, it could then be moved into the public sightings section.


I think the problem is easy. Close the sightings thread and leave it open to members only. That will minimise scalpers. It won't stop them entirely, but it at least gives the members a fighting chance.

Nope, won't do that. We have enough restricted sections for members only, and 99% of the toys released here aren't limited enough to warrant having a closed/elitist/xenophobic look to our community.
The majority of the people wanting the rarer figures are active members or higher, so this could help the majority of people get that toy, or even report a sighting of that toy (as some refuse to risk a public posting). It also acts as an incentive to gain an active interactive status here by newer fans, or those who didn't previously have an intention to contribute here.


Suggestion: How about if anyone finds a hard-to-find toy, reserve them all and then post the sighting location and reservation name.

That would be difficult to do in most cases or stores... especially in large quantities.
A better way around that might be for me to approach the head-office of stores like TRU, to see if there can't be some sort of pre-ordering arrangement done for registered (and maybe active) members of our community, which would guarantee sales for them, and provides the figures to those here who want them.
It might also prompt them to bring in more stock, to prevent the need for a restricted sub-section in the first place. (which some people don't like)


I don't agree with this at all :mad:

I joined this forum because a google search led me to the sightings thread which led me to an acquisition win.

At first when I was very active in retail toy hunting I felt that the sightings thread should be restricted to members only but I now realise that it is arguably one of the biggest reasons why people would join this forum in the first place.

If someone new comes along and plans to be an interactive member to give back to the community they have benefited from as a guest or newbie, they won't be discriminated against, because they will still have access to 99% of the sightings as a guest or basic member (rank 4 or less), and will know broad details of what, where, when and how much.
None of that will be secret... and as mentioned above, there would still be sightings posted in the regular/public section, by those who are lower ranks, and even those of higher ranks that choose to (because it won't be prohibited).
This is just an idea to improve the chances of obtaining something that is so limited, it shouldn't go to people who are just reselling it (which does still occur here, just not as much as in America), or to those who don't even know that it is a rare/premium figure (kids or parents who aren't even collectors, but are just buying a random toy).

If I didn't care about what others here think, or how it would affect them, I wouldn't have put this up for comments & discussion first to fine-tune the idea. I'd just implement something and ignore the complaints.


I honestly am beginning to think scalpers don't thrive in Australia anyway given the following factors:
-US prices are far better than AU ones, importing is cheaper than retail
-If scalpers are purely motivated by profit, it is a lot of effort to put in (keeping updated with exclusives, prices and sightings) for a, comparatively, little gain.
-We beat them to it, every single time. Either by forming syndicates or simply by pure dedication to the hunt. We are our own worst enemy and are growing in number.

That's true, we don't have a significant scalper problem in this country (you can't find BotShot chase figures in American stores, but aren't a problem here)... but we've had enough of a greed element with the odd past figure being snapped up and ebayed for a massive markup, to warrant looking into a way of making it harder for those people who have no interest in ever joining here or contributing back to this community.
You joined because of what we offered, and then gave back... I'm only suggesting that we target the people who don't have that same ethical standard.


If understand that many of us are frustrated by recent events but if you are truly concerned that you or other members will miss out on a toy then DON'T POST IN THE SIGHTINGS THREAD. I'm sure many of us do this already, myself included.

So instead of trying to create a system that encourages members to post all of their sightings (with a temporary two-tier system), it is being suggested by at least a couple senior members (who don't post sightings of rarer items), that we just don't post them at all. :confused: That's more of a problem, because no one sees your info. At least this proposal lets people know about what you've seen, and it's the majority of the traffic here too.

That's more discriminating than the temporary hiding of a particular figure's postings, which you're against... and goes against the point of having a community or sightings section.



But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members) and you want to be able to obtain a toy by refreshing a page on webpage that most other people can't see and then make a phone call.

So instead of most of the people seeing your sightings in a temporary hidden sub-section, no one sees it (since you and others don't risk posting in the public section). That's a lot more elitist than this proposal, that eventually aims to have the info available to everyone.


To be clear, I think the proposition (which isn't a new one) is for ultra rare and low production items only. I'm pretty sure the intention would still be to have general access sightings threads for 99% of the TFs sold.

Exactly. The ultimate goal is to not need the temporary sub-section at all (by trying to open up dialogue with the Stores to gain pre-orders or encourage an increase in stock numbers to cover the demand), but failing that, we need to prevent people here from not wanting to post sightings... and need to prioritise getting toys to people who will keep them and look after them.

[GoktimusPrime]

fwiw I think it's a good idea. :)


Only thing I can say to that is, don't feed the scalpers? :(
^Agree 100% w/ this! :D
If a toy isn't at or below RRP, I ain't buyin' it!

[Lint]

So instead of trying to create a system that encourages members to post all of their sightings (with a temporary two-tier system), it is being suggested by at least a couple senior members (who don't post sightings of rarer items), that we just don't post them at all. That's more of a problem, because no one sees your info. At least this proposal lets people know about what you've seen, and it's the majority of the traffic here too.

That's more discriminating than the temporary hiding of a particular figure's postings, which you're against... and goes against the point of having a community or sightings section.

So instead of most of the people seeing your sightings in a temporary hidden sub-section, no one sees it (since you and others don't risk posting in the public section). That's a lot more elitist than this proposal, that eventually aims to have the info available to everyone.



I'm not proposing that everybody does not post sightings of rarer items. Only that if they are uncomfortable doing so, they simply not do it. I have posted sightings of MP-10 and Thundercracker. I may have delayed one post owing to lack of reception and the fact that I wanted to give other toy hunters the opportunity to find toys on their own before feeding them to the pack.

Whether you post a sighting or not on a public forum is a personal choice. Nobody is obligated to do it. It is not elitist at all.

Creating a sub-section where only a selected class of people can see and post sightings is.

So lets run through a little example scenario to see if I understand the process correctly:

1. Low-rank (or any) member excitedly posts up sighting of an MP-10 on the public sightings thread.
2. Moderator moves (or deletes) this post to the secret thread regarding MP-10
3. Low-rank member wonders where their sighting went. Is either told or informed that they are not permitted to post their sighting
4. Low-rank member goes wtf because their contribution to the community has been absconded for the elite.
5. Am I, as a Deluxe member, then obligated to only post sightings of MP-10 in the private sightings thread until otherwise instructed? Sounds very controlling.

Why are we so against a parent or otherwise buying a superb toy like MP-10 at random for a kid or even themselves? It's unlikely to happen anyway because of the cost, but even if it did wouldn't this awesome toy have a better chance of endearing a child/person to the Transformers franchise than one of the arguably less-good regular release figures?

I think the public sightings thread already gives us a distinct and adequate advantage over the regular shopper. How many parents do you think have wasted their time in the toy aisle looking for a toy that has been bought out by ourselves during a catalogue sale? You're now proposing to give us another leg-up over our own kind in order to satisfy the desires of a few and deny a handful of scalpers a profit?

[Kazza]

I'm a serious collector as well and i'm not rank 6, if this comes into effect, i wouldnt know when MP's hit shelfs and where to look.:(

[Sky Shadow]

I think, as a community, we have to realise that there are a lot of Transformers collectors who are very serious about collecting who just aren't aware of the forum

Then... how does it affect them what we do with the sightings section? Personally I don't care either way - from my perspective, Australia hasn't has anything that's worth buying at retail in years, and the chances of it having something I think is worth buying that will actually sell out are minuscule. But I do think that for things that are perceived by some as good, why not make it private, as long as it's a 'private'-level member who was the one making the sighting?

[Megatron]

Yeah... (if it comes into effect) I would have to try extra hard to try to gain a Rank 6... and I absolutely love collecting exclusives and limited editions.

[Bidoofdude]

We also have to remember, as many said before, that we are not the only TF fans in Australia. There may be other communities that we don't know about, as well as those who aren't the talkative type.
Those such as Kazza and MegatronSG1 may miss out too, if they were looking for said toy. It's a debatable topic which may never come to light.
I, however, in my personal opinion, agree to keep some sort of private thread/section for those who are very enthusiastic and passionate about obtaining a particular toy, or just collecting in general. I really want to get my hands on MP-10, as it is virtually the toy I wanted when I was a kid.
I hope this comes to pass, although I hope for there to be some sort of thing for lower than rank 5 members, as it would be unfair to do otherwise, if this was to pass.
This is a good start though, as we are starting to stand up to scalpers in the name of our community. Thanks for reading my wall of text and understanding my opinion on this idea.:D:o

[KalEl]

I like this idea. For those like myself not rank 6, do your best to be a contributing part of the community and im sure it with come soon enough :)

[Trailer Park Ninja]

Hmm..wow this is an interesting debate, there are valid points on both sides of the fence. It's like we're having the Marvel Comics version of "Civil War" here :p. Shall we draft the Transformers Registration Act? Lighten up, I'm just kidding! :D

I honestly don't know where my stance is or if there is a better, equitable solution.

My reflex action was hell yes!!! to the idea Griffin proposed. Then on reflection on his argument and Lint's I'm a bit uneasy of the idea.

From my personal experience, I was getting frustrated with trying to find MP Thundercracker and then Optimus Prime. I became convinced there were scalpers amongst us or out there depriving me of my joy. I didn't have any Masterpieces so this was a good entry point for me. I liked the revised moulds and the price point. However, I have persisted as I really wanted these guys (and I'm so glad I have them now :)).

I got these figures off my own bat, and not off anyone else's lead. However, in the past I have got a desired figure from a posting sighting (and given thanks for that sighting!)

And to pay it forward, I've posted sightings regularly as well, particularly during the work week at Kmart, Target and TRU stores for the benefit of others.


I posted sightings of a full set of FOC Bruticus figures at Kmart, Bam! Gone next day.
I posted a sighting of 4 MP Thundercrackers at TRU after grabbing mine, Bam! Goneskies.


Knowing how hard it was to get these guys and my opinion there were scalpers buying up (e.g. that report about someone buying 6 MP OPs etc), I still posted my findings so to help out the forumites.

Did someone here benefit from my postings? (a shout out be nice ;)), was it a random stranger, or a scalper? Maybe? I don't know, but I have no control over that, I just put it out there.

I'm not sure I agree 100% with a sealed sightings section albeit temporary for a high demand figure. On the flipside, I don't like it if people here have been to a store and keep the info to themselves but utilise our intelligence info and then cry foul about being restricted to the sightings section.

As much as we can say we are not being elitist, the behaviour of a sealed section, or reserving multiples for the benefit of others here is being elitist not matter how well-intentioned. Who am I to deprive someone else of one who I don't even know?

Yes, this may be the most prominent Transformers collector forum locally. But there are other local action figure collectors forums out there also posting transformers sightings. What's to say we ain't competing with these collectors?

Additionally, I know of people who collect action figures but don't belong or participate in any online forums. They are happy to collect what they want and aren't that into the whole pop culture aspect. Does it make them less worthy of having fair chance at one?

This issue seems to more prolific with the high priced adult collectors figures like Masterpiece where it seems to be a scalper issue.

However, I heard the same thing when FOC figures came out. Yeah I couldn't see them in stores but maybe this was a Hasbro or retailer issue. When the few that did appear went quickly, could this be a case of a short packed shipment? I managed to get a Shockwave figure after enough visits.

But even before they started appearing in more supply in stores I could get one for a $25 plus shipping from a reputable local ebay dealer way before retail.

I can't see why you would even bother trying to buy multiples to try and make a profit. The expense going from TRU to TRU would eat up any profit margin.

I just think the MP figures are considered high-end Collector's items in the eyes of TRU and a big shipment of these isn't worth the risk. They are not as recognisable as the movie or maybe the cartoon merchandise.

I compare the issue of hard to purchase Masterpiece Transformers like the limited Nike re-releases of Air Jordans. These are released at select Footlockers stores and unless you line up at 3am the day before, you got buckley's chance of getting one.

I find it hard to believe they can only ship out 20 pairs of shoes NATIONALLY. May be it's the same with Masterpiece figures and TRU?

[jazzcomp]

If you find a toy that is short packed, who do you want it to go to? A friend, another forum member, scalper or someone unknown to you?

Hmm, why is there a coincidence of toys getting sold out when a sighting is found? Like you, I'd acknowledge & thank the source if I got the info from them.
But it seems like it's not members who are benefiting from the info shared. But if you don't care about who gets the toy, why share the sighting at all? Unsolicited help? I actually ask for help.

It should be preference of the poster who he/she wants to share the info with. PM is there.

The info is still shared albeit a lot later.

[Cat]

What's suggested does NOT inhibit members of the public being able to buy these toys. All it means is that (for rare figures like MPs) we're not HELPING them by providing exact dates and times. They can still ring, visit, and have just as much of a chance. That's important.

I DO, however, have a HUGE problem with someone here seeing them and reserving them all, and members can then pick them up. That could take toys off the shelf for a day or more, with no guarantee of them all being bought. That's not fair on the public, and it makes us no different to scalpers , to them. That actively inhibits them from buying. Again, to me an important distinction.

I would have huge ethical issues with that suggestion.

[griffin]

So lets run through a little example scenario to see if I understand the process correctly:

1. Low-rank (or any) member excitedly posts up sighting of an MP-10 on the public sightings thread.
2. Moderator moves (or deletes) this post to the secret thread regarding MP-10
3. Low-rank member wonders where their sighting went. Is either told or informed that they are not permitted to post their sighting
4. Low-rank member goes wtf because their contribution to the community has been absconded for the elite.
5. Am I, as a Deluxe member, then obligated to only post sightings of MP-10 in the private sightings thread until otherwise instructed? Sounds very controlling.



That would be the idea, if this ever happened. The single item (not everything) would still be news, still be tweeted, still be on the header, still have a toy review topic, still be talked about on the global fansites, and even still be reported by members in the regular sightings section (it wouldn't be prohibited)... we would just have a rarely used subsection that would have the bulk of the locations by the more active members (Rank 5 and above) and any reservations or hidden items in the store, who are doing all the leg-work going around to all these stores, noting the details (prices and quantities) and taking the time to log in here and dictate it for the rest of us.

Which means, people can still post in the regular section all they want, especially for the newer or junior members who need the info or want to post sightings... but if a portion of the sightings (big or small) are hidden from those who don't contribute here, it improves the chances of those who do contribute. It also gives the people who keep sightings to themselves, an additional option, to post it where scalpers can't see it.


I really got back into transformers because I was gifted a high quality TF on my 21st as well as retail releases of Masterpieces. You could be depriving potential fans of these opportunities.

This may have indeed happened, at least in your case (which is great), but how many of those regular people who bought those items never became fans? Are we willing to let established fans (who are more likely to keep and cherish these items) miss out on dozens of rare figures, on the off-chance that we might convert one or two of the non-fan buyers into a fandom that isn't exactly a beneficial obsession (yes, I'm the first to admit that).
It doesn't sound nice, but when it comes to limited seats on the life-boats, tough choices have to be made as to who gets preference to survive the sinking ship... or else there's chaos, and women and children are left behind... figuratively speaking.
As noted above, the regular sightings section would not be "cleansed" of specific sightings. The smaller number of those sightings will still help out guests and newbies... along with "the news posts, the tweets, the header, the toy review topics, and the global fansites". It's not like this would cut off anyone from knowing where and when... it just improves our odds.


I'm a serious collector as well and i'm not rank 6, if this comes into effect, i wouldnt know when MP's hit shelfs and where to look.:(

Rank 5 and above...


Yeah... (if it comes into effect) I would have to try extra hard to try to gain a Rank 6... and I absolutely love collecting exclusives and limited editions.

Rank 5 and above...


I like this idea. For those like myself not rank 6, do your best to be a contributing part of the community and im sure it with come soon enough :)

Rank 5 and above...
:p
(I periodically go through the member listings and upgrade people every few months, so don't feel left out if you think you should have it... I may not have had a chance to do it for a while)

[SuspectimusPrime]

Is it possible to integrate a simple system of hiding content until the person choosing to view that content clicks an affirmation (either 'Like' or 'Thank You') that publicly reveals their name on that post. This way any forumite can make a sighting rare or otherwise, and choose to have it global or hidden.

If there were later reports of a highly sought after item being lapped up by one person, it would be more easy to deduce the culprit - from a finite pool of forumites who may have made an affirmation. Even if its an MP10 posting, I'm assuming that only a very few people would have had time to respond, and some may re-post existing stock numbers of the said secret fishing spot.

I agree with Lint and I'm a glass-is-90%-empty sort of person (you eventually become one in my field, ahhah), but I don't honestly believe that there are that many scalpers around. Principally because financially scalping does not appear to be as worthwhile here as opposed to overseas - they have way cheaper prices at much higher returns and a larger/more ready market. Rare items on eBay Australia usually finish at much lower prices because we've got smaller demand (i.e. Sky Shadow's recent Botcon sales on eBay), and Americans don't seem to buy things priced outside of their dollar often (CBB? Too hard to convert from USD to AUD? Or simply not knowing where Australia is (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=324207&postcount=17)? :p). Restrictions may do more to hurt existing non-Rank 5 forumites (Kazza/Megatron-SG1), and honest collecting non-forumites (Do we have hundreds? Thousands?). Whilst our goals may not be elitism, that does seem like an indirect end result and may be one of the first thoughts that come to the mind of a non-forumite pondering whether they should join/contribute.

Also, a child that knows very little about MP10 and receives it may end up offering the toy more attention than an adult collector with hundreds of toys (my mini-grails are still in packaging because I don't have the time to enjoy them, and MP10/MP TC are wrapped up and stored under my bed because I'm not sure about opening it :eek: or maybe trading it) -- eventually becoming adult collectors themselves for years to come.



(I periodically go through the member listings and upgrade people every few months, so don't feel left out if you think you should have it... I may not have had a chance to do it for a while)

Ahh that explains why Bidoofdude and I Poke-evolved at the same time :)

EDIT: The best way of protecting a highly sought after item for other forumites is really to buy it up on the spot - you can always refund :) Of course this calls for another level of altruism.. But hey, if supply gets lapped up quick enough, then its a good sign for any corporate buyer/analyst to see success in those numbers right? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Which would eventually mean more exclusives making their way down to Oz at possibly cheaper prices (read: fat chance).

[Lint]

Which means, people can still post in the regular section all they want, especially for the newer or junior members who need the info or want to post sightings... but if a portion of the sightings (big or small) are hidden from those who don't contribute here, it improves the chances of those who do contribute. It also gives the people who keep sightings to themselves, an additional option, to post it where scalpers can't see it....
....the regular sightings section would not be "cleansed" of specific sightings. The smaller number of those sightings will still help out guests and newbies... along with "the news posts, the tweets, the header, the toy review topics, and the global fansites". It's not like this would cut off anyone from knowing where and when... it just improves our odds.


Well I'm far more satisfied with this proposal if the postings in the regular section are not be affected :). However I would presume that this would impact the efficacy of keeping sightings 'private'.



This may have indeed happened, at least in your case (which is great), but how many of those regular people who bought those items never became fans? Are we willing to let established fans (who are more likely to keep and cherish these items) miss out on dozens of rare figures, on the off-chance that we might convert one or two of the non-fan buyers into a fandom that isn't exactly a beneficial obsession (yes, I'm the first to admit that).
It doesn't sound nice, but when it comes to limited seats on the life-boats, tough choices have to be made as to who gets preference to survive the sinking ship... or else there's chaos, and women and children are left behind... figuratively speaking.


To me thats punishing people who haven't committed a crime yet. I still don't think a secret sightings section is justified however if the regular sightings are not affected I don't see any dramatic change in policy. It simply means existing unposted sightings and syndicated acquisition arrangements that were previously contained in SMS's and PM's now have an official home on the forums.

[jazzcomp]

Posts about children is probably not appropriate in this discussion as I doubt children are finding out when MP is hitting the store shelves or watching and waiting like us and skipping school just to buy toys when the shops open at 9am.

Much like the doubt that there are many scalpers around.

[Cat]

I'd also like to add that I don't think scalpers are a factor in this.

There's simply not many scalpers around (luckily).

[Shirokaze]

I'm not sure if a secret sightings section is a great idea, mostly for reasons already outlined in this thread. I do however, think that something needs to be done about the scalper problem.

I would propose simply that the same restrictions placed on the viewing of the For Sale section be placed on the sightings section. ie. you must first post an introduction. Once a member introduces themselves, we know a little about them and they become part of our community essentially.

So where does this leave the scalper? I would imagine that the majority of scalpers are fans to some extent, or else they wouldn't know what figures were in demand. At the moment, they're an unknown entity that's depriving the community of figures. Once they've signed up and put themselves out there by introducing themselves, the only difference between them and any other new member are their moral choices. Choices that I hope would be influenced positively by all the great members here.

It's not foolproof, but I'm sure it would have a positive effect.

[griffin]

That would still make it "secret" if it was hidden from non-members, and that would mean 100% of the sightings would be hidden from guests. This proposal would just hide less than 1% of sightings.

And I agree with Lint, that I don't see us having a scalper problem in this country... because the MP toys haven't been showing up on ebay.
I've actually found (through the recent purchase of Grand Max) that there are toy collectors in this country that aren't Transformers fans. They either collect toys in general, or just robot toys... some even specifically just collect Japanese Robot toys.
It's a whole new demographic that we are actually competing with, which would be utilising our site as a resource to assist them in their collecting... but aren't joining here to give something back to the rest of us collecting these toys. Those would be a more likely competition, not scalpers (or parents/kids, unless they are there at the time the toys are put out on shelves and buy it on impulse - which I've seen as well).


On a related note - I was just upgrading several people to "Active" status.... but I'm looking at changing the name "Active Member" to "Dedicated Member", as it is a ranking that is earned through active contributing here (through sightings and helping out other fans with info, news, meets, etc) after 100 or so postings.... proving their dedication to the local fandom and fellow collectors. And unless they become completely dormant/inactive (don't log in for 6 months or so), they'd keep that ranking they've earned. (the term "active" was starting to get a bit confusing for me when I was upgrading people, as they had been significant contributors over a couple years, but not very frequent/active - now people would stay Rank 5 as Dedicated/contributors, even if they go through less active phases of their hobby here)

[Defcon]

Maybe the demand for some of the rarer or exclusive figures is currently greater than the supply? if we are talking about Toysrus, they underestimated demand or couldn't get enough because overseas markets are buying up the stock?. On the other side Mr Toys toyworld seems to stock items in plentiful supply. I think its just think its mostly a supply and demand issue, and in rare cases scalping.

Im not really in favor of having a dedicated section for secret sightings. There really is no need, unless a particular group wants to network and send pms to eachother. Besides nothing is kept secret for long, people can always phone up stores and enquire, or ask in store.

Also on the subject of scalpers, anyone on this board could be a potential scalper. They could also collect as well, but choose to buy up popular (edit: sometimes rare) items to sell for small profits later. Why would someone do this? maybe to make this hobby less expensive. Of course this is a morally ambigious choice. Not saying I do this by the way, but I can see the rationale behind it, its like playing the toy stockmarket. Also what if you buy 2of something, 1 to open, or maybe 1 to trade later, or just in case one breaks or is faulty, or want to customize the figure to make another character.

[lj7369]

Its a really tough argument. I was quite hesitant to post my sighting today, as i wasnt sure who may be watching..... After a while i did post it, as i think more people will benefit from this than it be a bad thing.

Mp 10 in my opinion is 99 percent poor retail practice by tru. It was underprogrammed when their buying team assessed the need/want it was conservative (at best). The feedback they now recieve from customers and collectors is crucial in this not happening again. Scalpers havent posted on australian ebay, so unless they are holding for things like parra or nexus they are either just not there, or smart enough to wait for a post on a forum that the mp10 well is 100 % dried up, making their investment worthwhile.

My 2 cents ( i work retail and stuff up the programming of specials for a number of reasons... mainly lack of information about a product eg price point.) Imagine doing the mp10 order for australia based off taktom pricing??? Only to find the $150 price point 3 months later.

Just a thought.

[Deonasis]

Having read all posts with no prior opinion (but knowing it'll be a minefield) i have been swayed by griffin's argument. We should not be an alarm clock for non or silent members.

Now about reserving stock.. while we can help and list sightings, i feel reserving alot of stock is a poor idea - one that leaves us stripping a store and looking just like scaplers.

[Cat]

I'm not sure I agree 100% with a sealed sightings section albeit temporary for a high demand figure. On the flipside, I don't like it if people here have been to a store and keep the info to themselves but utilise our intelligence info and then cry foul about being restricted to the sightings section.

As much as we can say we are not being elitist, the behaviour of a sealed section, or reserving multiples for the benefit of others here is being elitist not matter how well-intentioned. Who am I to deprive someone else of one who I don't even know?

Yes, this may be the most prominent Transformers collector forum locally. But there are other local action figure collectors forums out there also posting transformers sightings. What's to say we ain't competing with these collectors?

Additionally, I know of people who collect action figures but don't belong or participate in any online forums. They are happy to collect what they want and aren't that into the whole pop culture aspect. Does it make them less worthy of having fair chance at one?

This issue seems to more prolific with the high priced adult collectors figures like Masterpiece where it seems to be a scalper issue.

However, I heard the same thing when FOC figures came out. Yeah I couldn't see them in stores but maybe this was a Hasbro or retailer issue. When the few that did appear went quickly, could this be a case of a short packed shipment? I managed to get a Shockwave figure after enough visits.

But even before they started appearing in more supply in stores I could get one for a $25 plus shipping from a reputable local ebay dealer way before retail.

I can't see why you would even bother trying to buy multiples to try and make a profit. The expense going from TRU to TRU would eat up any profit margin.

I just think the MP figures are considered high-end Collector's items in the eyes of TRU and a big shipment of these isn't worth the risk. They are not as recognisable as the movie or maybe the cartoon merchandise.

I compare the issue of hard to purchase Masterpiece Transformers like the limited Nike re-releases of Air Jordans. These are released at select Footlockers stores and unless you line up at 3am the day before, you got buckley's chance of getting one.

I find it hard to believe they can only ship out 20 pairs of shoes NATIONALLY. May be it's the same with Masterpiece figures and TRU?


You got sidetracked here.

If collectors don't use this board, then this proposal makes no difference to them.

And the core proposal just means they don't see actual sightings. They will still see the headers, front page articles, acquisitions etc.

It does not impair anybody's ability to obtain the relevant figure. It just means they will no longer be able to use other people's work without contribution. They just have to make those phone calls themselves.

If they're on another board , then it'll still be on there. It'll still be on other boards too.

It stops no-one. It doesn't make it harder for them. It just means they have to do the work that this community was previously doing for them.

It's not relevant if they're a collector, a kid, or a scalper. What's relevant is that they were using the collective output of this board for their own benefit, without desire to contribute themselves, to join in the board.

Lets keep this on target, and not get swayed by tangents.

[Trailer Park Ninja]

Sure thing dude :)

[Defcon]

I think the tangents are relevant by the way :)

I guess if people post up info, its risky to post specifics as you have just tipped off all the competition! lurkers and non-members, and members. I don't know it just seems like common sense. But if everyone was vague the sightings would almost be all copy and paste, and potentially boring to look at.

A post recently helped me to get a FOC Shockwave. But thankfully the retailer stocking these has several boxes, so they really have plenty of stock. But the problem with said figure is that its rare, and only exists in one wave. We cant avoid this, there will always be rare figures. Its really comes down to a supply and demand. The demand is high for new figures, but sightings increase demand even further, we end up all competing. You win some, you lose some. Sometimes you just have to be in the right place at the right time.

I guess a secret sightings forum will be a valuable tool to give members an edge over the non-member competition. It may give members a chance to get in first to secure those rare and limited items. Id prefer retailers to have enough stock but sometimes they will get it wrong, and some figures will always be short packed.

[theheretic]

Doesn't really affect me as I pretty much have to import everything because I live in Ballarat, BUT this idea seems a bit wrong to me. Yes I read all the posts in this thread but I really just think you would be limiting your online google presence by hiding the section. And who is to say what figures would be hard to get here? Sometimes we get world first releases and other times we miss wave after wave (I'm looking at you TF Prime). And that's my cent and a half

[KalEl]

Rank 5 and above...
:p
(I periodically go through the member listings and upgrade people every few months, so don't feel left out if you think you should have it... I may not have had a chance to do it for a while)

No problem dude, im just happy to be part of a cool community. I was just letting others know that if they are a good part of that community it will come :)

[drahsrebu]

Interesting topic and read, there are obvious pros and cons to both sides of the argument here.
I for one am excited when I spot something new at retail (whether it be common or super rare), if I can share that sighting and have someone use that info to make a purchase and share that excitement, than who cares who they are?? We are all here because we love transformers, why starve others of the joy we have in collecting?
That is why I post sightings (although I live in Bundaberg and maybe no from here uses it)
But in saying that I can also understand the reasoning as to why some would like this implemented.
:)

[Kazza]

I noticed someone mentioned reserving toys instore for members, i don't think this is actually that bad of an idea. Maybe create a group order for each particular local store, with someone just putting a reservation for how many members is actually intending to go in and pick up their toy from that particular store. Reservation should be on the day within a timespan of 2-3hrs, holding it for 24hrs or more is definately scummy. Oppose to the original idea of reserving the complete lot of stock using a certain name/code for pick up.

[Cat]

Sure thing dude :)

I actually meant that post in a more general sense. It looks a bit targeted, but I was going off what you'd written as posts summing up others' thoughts.

And really, is this going to be for anything other than MP's?

And it may be done for the next one, only to see TRU has got their act together.

It may only be used once.

Did you get Shockie from Carindale, Def? I thought you'd mentioned not having him. I almost picked one up for you just to be sure, but then realised that there's a dozen cases, and they'll have these for the next year at least.

It would be nice if we could re-establish some old bonds with the companies though. TRU used to be awesome to deal with, from a site I used to be part of. This was years ago though. I fell out of touch as I got less free time for hobbies, and started doing all my ordering from overseas: HLJ and BBTS.

I'm eager to put forward a presentation to them. Hopefully establish a mutually beneficial relationship for us: something that can benefit all parties.

That way we can sidestep this sort of thing completely.

[Trailer Park Ninja]

I think I made the pont there about this being only an issue with Masterpiece releases, every other line isn't an issue.

There was talk of scalpers but I really don't see it. TRU and other retailers can buy boatloads of boxes of the deluxe figures etc, they ain't going to buy an equally plentiful supply of MPs.

So short supply, high demand.

I do agree with your latter point, I think as a niche group we could approach TRU to get a Collectors Club started to preorder purchases for forthcoming releases. I'm sure they would welcome some guaranteed sales, have less people ringing them numerous times a day etc

[Kazza]

It's also been an issue for the MP's cause of sales and voucher discounts. If it wasn't for them, there would be more chances for people to pick up one.

[M-bot]

I do agree with your latter point, I think as a niche group we could approach TRU to get a Collectors Club started to preorder purchases for forthcoming releases. I'm sure they would welcome some guaranteed sales, have less people ringing them numerous times a day etc

Now that is a great idea - suits us, suits TRU. Win/Win!

[Trailer Park Ninja]

I think it's worth a try to introduce to them a segment of the market they haven't really captured or been aware of. That is, the adult collector.

Most of their activities are geared towards the kiddies and/or mums and dads to draw in sales e.g. Halloween or superhero costume days, colouring in competitions etc.

Now with TRU stepping online purchasing from their website for select toy lines, it shouldn't be that hard to put a section up on the website for Transformers. Considering we're in the know with upcoming TF releases, we'd be a great sounding bound for demand of certain figures, we could contribute toy reviews etc or provide some content.

But it needn't be this elaborate, even if we could have an account as a Collectors club to pre-order and set aside TF releases (mostly MP I would think) this would benefit both parties greatly.

But really what's in it for them is some nice pre-order sales without any marketing effort on their part, better inventory management and planning, less resources used with floor staff being pulled from registers, shelf re-filling etc running around with people on the phone, in-store etc.

For us, we get the figures we want guaranteed, have less frustration and aggravation on going from different TRU stores wasting time, petrol and money and not cannibalizing the stock so someone here misses out.

[Cat]

TRU used to have a pretty good relationship with adult collectors. Connected to Hasbro's active involvement.

Then there was some 'unpleasantness' some years ago. As a result they retreated, and placed some people/boards on an 'embargo' list.

[janda the red]

After reading through this thread I don't think a secret section is really needed.

There are a lot of valid points people have made, but to me it seems like it'd be overkill.

The sighting thread has been helpful to me a few times... and I just accept that when i post in it, it's viewable to many people.... not just otca members.

Just my two cents... :)

[Cat]

Another reason I am sometimes a bit worried about sightings is stuff like this if I have one held for me. http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=324996&postcount=15

Sure, the proposed section wouldn't eliminate this possibility, but it would make me more comfortable posting that that item is in. (Again only for the rare item type proposed)

[LordCyrusOmega]

The other alternative to a secret sighting section would be if someone finds something, they hold all or. Then send out pm's to people who have shown interest letting them know they're in.
Would need a code word though, so people can't claim other peoples hold.

[Sky Shadow]

I have much bigger issues with holding toys than I do with a secret sightings section. Yes it's keeping scalpers from buying them, but it's also unfairly keeping anyone else from doing so. Whoever gets to the shelves first should have a chance to buy the toys, whether they be Ozformers, parents, kids or other. Putting toys on hold (particularly by phone) is almost as bad as hiding them.

[Decepticon]

I have much bigger issues with holding toys than I do with a secret sightings section. Yes it's keeping scalpers from buying them, but it's also unfairly keeping anyone else from doing so. Whoever gets to the shelves first should have a chance to buy the toys, whether they be Ozformers, parents, kids or other. Putting toys on hold (particularly by phone) is almost as bad as hiding them.

Putting a bunch of toys on hold for other people is just as bad as scalping.
I don't contribute to the forum much but I do visit and read the threads 3-4 times a day. i am an ordinary collector. Stopping people who are ranked poorly like me from viewing sightings is quite bizarre as you are not doing the forum any favours. And by the way, it can work both ways...I have sighted heaps of things at certain places here in Perth as I travel around as part of my job. If I can't see what's been sighted elsewhere, why should I tell others where things are.

[Sharky]

there is really no need for secret sightings, i like how we advertise stuff to help others doesnt matter if they are noobies or veterens or even scalpers..,

i guess toy collecting is alot like survival of the fittest..

[LordCyrusOmega]

I had a problem holding toys as well. But considering the small amount of new toys that enter the Illawarra I'd rather pass it on to collectors first. I never hold every toy. It's usually only 2. Holding toys does prevent others from having access but it also prevents those that walk in and buy multiples only to pass them on at an increased cost

[jazzcomp]

Putting a bunch of toys on hold for other people is just as bad as scalping.
I don't contribute to the forum much but I do visit and read the threads 3-4 times a day. i am an ordinary collector. Stopping people who are ranked poorly like me from viewing sightings is quite bizarre as you are not doing the forum any favours. And by the way, it can work both ways...I have sighted heaps of things at certain places here in Perth as I travel around as part of my job. If I can't see what's been sighted elsewhere, why should I tell others where things are.
It's doing a favour for other members who contribute. Just looking at your total posts (2), sightings have been posted a lot. You most likely haven't posted a sighting even with the advantage of your job travel.

It's not bizarre. If the intention of a forum/community is to have majority of its members just waiting for active members to contribute, then you are right.
But if it's more to benefit the more active members, then you are most likely wrong. You can just refer to the sales section.


I have much bigger issues with holding toys than I do with a secret sightings section. Yes it's keeping scalpers from buying them, but it's also unfairly keeping anyone else from doing so. Whoever gets to the shelves first should have a chance to buy the toys, whether they be Ozformers, parents, kids or other. Putting toys on hold (particularly by phone) is almost as bad as hiding them.
I think there should be a limit to what can be reserved over the phone so that people walking in can still have a chance at buying a toy. I also believe there should be a limit as to how many toys you can buy to prevent scalpers. If they did buy one or two from multiple stores, then at least they made the effort of hunting down the toys instead of buying 6 from one store location. However if the toy is shelfwarming, you can buy multiples to clear the stock that no one else wants :)

I don't see the point of honoring phone reservation if someone in store is asking the same thing to be put on hold. That person came in first, but because the stock isn't on the floor yet - he can't even ask for a reservation.

[Sharky]

I think there should be a limit to what can be reserved over the phone so that people walking in can still have a chance at buying a toy. I also believe there should be a limit as to how many toys you can buy to prevent scalpers. If they did buy one or two from multiple stores, then at least they made the effort of hunting down the toys instead of buying 6 from one store location. However if the toy is shelfwarming, you can buy multiples to clear the stock that no one else wants :)



Sure you can buy 6 MP Thundercrackers but you have to buy a bumblebee for every thundercracker as well.... :p

[Stompy]

My humble opinion...

I think it's a little bit much to have secret sightings. The reason of having a community is the interaction. To inform others of the item of interestis the single most joy I've had in this community. Finding first sightings is something that still gets my blood rising and can't wait to share with others.

I think the issue is just sour grapes that some fans missed out. Myself included. But it's part of it. We all know MP's are always limited due to their price and appeal as all are considered toys in this country. I called around to see if there's any but turned up zilch and I really wanted one. I'd just have to go without and hope to nab one in the future somehow. That's just the way life goes. I'm not more entitled to anything than anyone else regardless of status.

It's just a case of short supply. In contrast, my other robot love is Gundam kits. Those are constantly reprinted and attainable and have none of these problems and they aren't distributed locally at all. I'm going off topic now so I'll stop.

I don't think a secret sighting section will make any difference to the supply demand problem. There's greater issues in hand than just a few posts.

[Hursticon]

I too don't see the need for a 'Secret Sightings' section, but I will gladly back Scalpers being tasered on sight... multiple times...

[jazzcomp]

My humble opinion...
I think it's a little bit much to have secret sightings. The reason of having a community is the interaction. To inform others of the item of interestis the single most joy I've had in this community. Finding first sightings is something that still gets my blood rising and can't wait to share with others.
You said it interaction. Others aren't interacting.

think the issue is just sour grapes that some fans missed out. Myself included. But it's part of it. We all know MP's are always limited due to their price and appeal as all are considered toys in this country. I called around to see if there's any but turned up zilch and I really wanted one. I'd just have to go without and hope to nab one in the future somehow. That's just the way life goes.
I don't think a secret sighting section will make any difference to the supply demand problem. There's greater issues in hand than just a few posts.
It's not sour graphing when you hear of someone buying too many multiples & one sighting at a toy fair selling at more than double the price.

With the supply issue, there's nothing to do there. I guess my attitude is of preference. I'd like my close friends to have the same toy ahead of others I don't know due to short supply.

[griffin]

If it is fairly easy for a collector to gain the "Dedicated Member" status, so if this concept ever did happen, 90-95% of the people who regularly use this place and contribute here, would be able to benefit from it. The people who won't, are the newest members and people not wanting to contribute here. Both of which can still find these one-off items through the News postings, Reviews, Regular Sightings, Tweets, and Sightings Banner. Hardly a hindrance to those already relying on the current system.
Does anyone really think that this suggested concept would actually mean a total blackout of information of toys here?
The information is still going to be out there. Just that some of the specific details will be directed at those who make up 95% of the traffic (contributions) here.



It's doing a favour for other members who contribute. Just looking at your total posts (2), sightings have been posted a lot. You most likely haven't posted a sighting even with the advantage of your job travel.

It's not bizarre. If the intention of a forum/community is to have majority of its members just waiting for active members to contribute, then you are right.
But if it's more to benefit the more active members, then you are most likely wrong. You can just refer to the sales section.


Member "Autobot" (along with his other three registrations*) deletes most of his posts after he posts them, so if he isn't going to contribute here properly, I don't think he's entitled to complain about this community. And as he mentioned, he doesn't contribute with sightings to help out other fans with what he finds, so it isn't fair to complain about a sightings structure he isn't willing to help out with to begin with.


*As per the Userguide/Rules, multiple registrations are not permitted without approval, so he's been notified that three of his will be removed soon.

[Cat]

My humble opinion...

I think it's a little bit much to have secret sightings. The reason of having a community is the interaction. To inform others of the item of interestis the single most joy I've had in this community. Finding first sightings is something that still gets my blood rising and can't wait to share with others.

I think the issue is just sour grapes that some fans missed out. Myself included. But it's part of it. We all know MP's are always limited due to their price and appeal as all are considered toys in this country. I called around to see if there's any but turned up zilch and I really wanted one. I'd just have to go without and hope to nab one in the future somehow. That's just the way life goes. I'm not more entitled to anything than anyone else regardless of status.

It's just a case of short supply. In contrast, my other robot love is Gundam kits. Those are constantly reprinted and attainable and have none of these problems and they aren't distributed locally at all. I'm going off topic now so I'll stop.

I don't think a secret sighting section will make any difference to the supply demand problem. There's greater issues in hand than just a few posts.

I think it's too easy to dismiss any points made as sour grapes. But people like me are for it, and I got both recent MPs first time, so that's out for me.

I'm a bit surprised at the dislike for phone holds. I've never thought about that. I used that to get TC, because I wasn't driving to the other side of the city otherwise. I know of 4 of the others that went that morning, and mine was the only phone hold.

If a store doesn't want to take phone holds, fine. I have no issue with that. But I'd be pissed if they did accept a phone hold, but then sold it to someone else. I'd made the trip in good faith that they were to honour their offer of the hold.

I DO disagree with the proposal of a mass phone hold. That goes against the spirit of collecting, and it's no different to scalping. It's blocking consumers from any access to the product. And they're not even guaranteed sales. If you hold them all for a group, but there's not enough people, are you willing to pay for the extras?

I'd have a huge problem with that, along with any other proposal that has the same effect of removing them all from sale.

Secret Sightings = people have just as much of a chance, they just have to do the work themselves, and not rely on others to do it for them.

Autobot is complaining about it, when they haven't posted any sightings, despite apparently having good access. Well then, your usual trips will be just as beneficial as before. You just won't have us doing your work for you, without you bothering to return the favour at any time. 'Leeching' seems to describe the situation quite well.

I also don't think the one sighting of OP for sale at a toy fair means anything. One got scalped out of the dozens released at that time. That's statistically insignificant. It also could have come from overseas.

[jazzcomp]

I'm a bit surprised at the dislike for phone holds. I've never thought about that. I used that to get TC, because I wasn't driving to the other side of the city otherwise. I know of 4 of the others that went that morning, and mine was the only phone hold.Your situation is different than in NSW/Sydney. Almost every MP OP was reserved (except Campbelltown). When I was talking to TRU staff in my local, he said he sold out 16 in one morning, I was there on lunchtime and I know that it's the phone holds = sold even though it's not paid for. The second time when I had a reserve and paid for it, i wanted a 2nd one for a mate. They said there were no more. But hearing other people got theirs later in the day just meant they lied. My friend was there at store opening and they wouldn't reserve him one because they weren't stacked yet. I was pissed at Campbelltown staff telling me they had none and I was willing to drive all the way out there if they gave the right info.

If a store doesn't want to take phone holds, fine. I have no issue with that. But I'd be pissed if they did accept a phone hold, but then sold it to someone else. I'd made the trip in good faith that they were to honour their offer of the hold.I certainly agree with that. Just compare it with a shoe I was looking for and suddenly found in a particular store (awhile later - not during release and even when it was the week it was released), I was only given the rest of the day to get it. It will be sold to someone else tomorrow. If it was still available the next day, I could reserve it again. There was a store (only one franchise) that reserves and if the guy you talked to is not on his shift even though it's out back, it might still be sold by another staff and there's nothing you can do about that.

Autobot is complaining about it, when they haven't posted any sightings, despite apparently having good access. Well then, your usual trips will be just as beneficial as before. You just won't have us doing your work for you, without you bothering to return the favour at any time. 'Leeching' seems to describe the situation quite well.No disagreement here.

I also don't think the one sighting of OP for sale at a toy fair means anything. One got scalped out of the dozens released at that time. That's statistically insignificant. It also could have come from overseas.
We'll see next week at Parra, but I'm almost sure that there'll be a sighting of MP OP there. I'm not particularly sure how many OPs that seller from the other fair has. If I was a seller, I'd certainly have more than one.

[griffin]

It seems that we do have scalpers in this country. Imagine the uproar here if this happened with a Transformers toy (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=14818) (and we didn't have this concept to fall back on if needed).

[theheretic]

It seems that we do have scalpers in this country. Imagine the uproar here if this happened with a Transformers toy (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=14818) (and we didn't have this concept to fall back on if needed).

This has happened to transformer toys. Just recently on the TF Prime waves

[Defcon]

Scalping to me dosen't really make financial sense, as it takes time and effort. If they were moving large volumes on a regular basis, then fine. Its all about someone getting a buzz about buying something cheap and then selling it for profit. Thats it. Id be surprised, if the person would use this money to pay bills, no they will go out and blow it on something selfish.

I just hope people know and understand the difference between someone scalping, and someone trying to sell something at market value. Totally understandable the rage when something for retail is swiped and put on ebay for double the price. But say if the same item shows up years later maybe the market value is indeed double the original retail or less or worthless.

[ChlorHex]

Guys, if this secret sightings thing goes ahead, you're at high risk of becoming an elitist collector site.

What we collect are toys... they're to be enjoyed by primarily children and then the adults (that's the target group toy companies aim for now isn't it? ...the kiddies) :)

You may argue that some toys (let's not talk about 3rd party ones) are targeted at adult toy collectors and thus collectors have the right to swipe em of the shelves before anyone else does and thus the need for a secret comm channel... but you'll be very much surprised that many kids have no clue of TFs like we do, yet buy them (or get their parents to) for their "cool" appeal.

I recall a couple of years back seeing a 7-8 yr old kid get an MP Optimus (the older bigger one) from Target and ripping the box and everything else to get his hands on the toy... this right outside the store and him squatting on the floor. You should see the joy on that kid's face... made me laugh :D ...it's a toy (the collector side of me cringed then as I saw the box and instructions getting ripped!)

Just last week (or was it week before? Can't remember), I was at Target Carousel and the shelves were loaded with FoC SB and SW... I didn't get any as I was hunting down Ben 10 stuff for my son. I think someone posted that the toys were available and whoosh! Gone like the wind! :eek:

But that's how it is... I don't blame anyone for missing out on the toy (I decided I wanted one later after seeing some reviews but it was already sold out yesterday when I went back)... heck, it's just a toy... so I missed it.

At the end of the day, Griffin and the senior crew here will have the final say...

It's entirely up to you guys if you think there's a huge scalping issue in Aus and this site is being used by them to locate hot items... bear in mind that there would be other sites that they'd use as well.

We do see quite often as well, fellow collectors selling off heaps of their "extras" or proudly showcasing pictures of multiple MULTIPLE purchases of a similar item (which then pops back up on their sales thread much later)... so your scalpers may not be so much of an external issue but an internal one.

So where does this end? If with the extra diligence you set up a relatively "safe" secret thread only to discover later on that some of the members given access end up scalping? And in large quantities? So what then? Another secret within a secret? :confused:

Don't trod down this path... it never ends and you may end up creating a much bigger monster(s) than you can handle (of the selfish, hoarding & mega scalping kind).

So there, my 2 cents...

[Sky Shadow]

Guys, if this secret sightings thing goes ahead, you're at high risk of becoming an elitist collector site.

What we collect are toys... they're to be enjoyed by primarily children and then the adults (that's the target group toy companies aim for now isn't it? ...the kiddies) :)

You may argue that some toys (let's not talk about 3rd party ones) are targeted at adult toy collectors and thus collectors have the right to swipe em of the shelves before anyone else does and thus the need for a secret comm channel... but you'll be very much surprised that many kids have no clue of TFs like we do, yet buy them (or get their parents to) for their "cool" appeal.

This argument makes no sense in this context. Making some sightings secret doesn't affect children in any way whatsoever.

[Defcon]

We do see quite often as well, fellow collectors selling off heaps of their "extras" or proudly showcasing pictures of multiple MULTIPLE purchases of a similar item (which then pops back up on their sales thread much later)... so your scalpers may not be so much of an external issue but an internal one.

Most times people have 'extras' they have ordered a case online from Robot kingdom or some other online store to save more because its cheaper that way most times. I agree we shouldn't go into retail and buy all the figures denying children a chance. But this is unavoidable when something new has just been put out. I see it all the time especially with the generations toys. But once the same location restocks the same wave, they sell much slower.

Usually alot of people buy the extras for a particular reason, army building eg. Scourge and the sweeps or Wreck Gar and Junkions. Or customs? or maybe they have a Sealed collection for a toy store style collection :o and an open one for play and display. I agree if we have knowledge that a figure is rare, we shouldn't multi buy that one. If army building maybe we should pace ourselves buy 1 , don't grab another one for a while as to give someone else a chance. It really just comes down to a case of thinking of others.
And sometimes selling off extras later down the track is beneficial to others who are just starting to collect and are catching up. Sure sometimes they pay more, sometimes they get a bargain :cool:

[Bidoofdude]

Yes, that seems logical, Defcon If we know it's rare, don't buy more than one, at least from retail. But army-building is completely different, as you said. I, as sort of a kid, (teen) wouldn't mind having the hunt a little easier for us, as many have outlined, there seems to be a sudden disappearing of wanted toys as soon as we spot them.
Honestly, people can join if they want to see things. They don't have to actively post that much, but at least let us know that they are out there and read this forum's sightings. That's kind of lurking in the shadows. Or in the very least they should tell us that they have bought them or are going to.
However, it's their choice and their purchase and we are helping them, whether we like it or not.
As I said before, I would like to get my Masterpiece op sooner and I think this idea would help, as long as we are not completely turning off from everyone else.
Also, why should only level 5 members have access? I sort of get it but isn't it enough to be a member to access it? Level 3? There are those that have just joined, yet have been in collecting for a while.
Anyway, it's still debatable and Grif Grif and the senior members make the decision at the end of the day.

[Autocon]

The secret shrine. Only those that are wise enough may enter.

I think we could make a seperate sighting thread in the sale thread.

[GoktimusPrime]

With MP Soundwave and Acid Storm around the corner, I've been wondering about something - given how hard it was to find MP Optimus Prime and Thundercracker (I personally never even saw 'Cracker in stores myself), would anyone be open to the idea of "cooperative buying" of these toys?

e.g. I don't need MP Soundwave, but say if I found one at a TRU, I could grab one immediately - then sell it to another OTCA member for the same price that I paid. It wouldn't be scalping, because the rule would be that we only charge whatever the store charges us (and people buying should only pay TRU prices). If people wanna charge an extra 'commission' for their time or fuel costs, then they should pre-arrange that with a buyer first. I'm personally willing to absorb those costs myself because I've had other people buy stuff for me plenty of times, so for me it's like paying it forward. :)

If people are interested in doing this, then perhaps we can start threads in Salesyard? The idea of this is that we ensure that these toys go to the hands of collectors rather than scalpers or children who may not appreciate the toys at the same level. I know that some people find this idea to be 'elitist' or 'snobbish,' but I don't. Masterpieces are explicitly designed for adult collectors (what Takara calls "high end" toys) rather than for children. I wouldn't recommend doing this for more mainstream TF toys that are aimed at kids like Transformers Prime, but I think Masterpiece is entirely different.

It's just a suggestion -- and if people are interested then perhaps we can start a thread. The rules would be simple... someone buys up MP Soundwaves and Acid Storms then quickly posts how many they have available to sell on that thread. The first person to reply on the thread (to avoid PM inbox clutter) gets first dibs on that toy.
e.g. say I buy an MP Soundwave from TRU, then post it on the thread. Now say The_Damned is the first to reply calling dibs on it. He pays me for the toy and gets the figure.

Whaddaya guys think of this idea? And also importantly, would such a suggestion be in any violation of existing board rules?

[Defcon]

The idea I have is to keep it really simple, team up with one other local person, for example both can visit Toys r Us on alternating days. If the other spots them instore, buy an extra one to give to the other person and send text to let them know. Some people don't really live close to a Toys r Us, so maybe one person could do all the hunting. But Im not really big on the idea of someone going and buying all the stock in one swoop to sell to other forum members. If that's the case why not just try and order a box of them online instead? sure you will pay a bit more, but it at least gives others a chance, who intend to try their luck at retail. Just my thoughts.

[canofwhoopass_87]

Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.

You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.



there is really no need for secret sightings, i like how we advertise stuff to help others doesnt matter if they are noobies or veterens or even scalpers..,

i guess toy collecting is alot like survival of the fittest..

Sharky - those words are spot on my friend. Fair way of thinking

[Omega Metro]

Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.

You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.
Sharky - those words are spot on my friend. Fair way of thinking

Agree.
If someone goes to a TRU checkout with 5 MP Soundwaves and 5 MP Acidstorms then its scalping.....end of story. Also, I only live 5 minutes from a TRU and if I go there to find they are all sold because a friendly member has bought them all for forum members, more than likely I will have to travel further than my 5 minutes to get it from someone's house. A lot of people can't afford/risk buying a lot of these in one go either (like me).

At least promote that type of buying behaviour through private messaging on the forum, not through wide open threads.

[The_Damned]

good idea Gok it would help someone like me who doesn't live near toys r us. maybe a chance to get one

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it's highly unfair to say that this suggestion is no different to scalping. Scalping is an insidious form of profiteering. What I'm suggesting here is purely not for profit where toys would ONLY be sold for the same price that TRUs charges for these MPs.

If you don't agree with this suggestion, that's fine... but I really don't think it's fair to say that it's the the same as scalping. That just sounds like people trying to demonise this suggestion just because you don't like it.


Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.
I'm only making this suggestion for high end collectible toylines like Masterpiece. As I said before, this suggestion does NOT apply to regular mainstream TF lines like TF Prime, Bot Shots, Movieverse etc. - the stuff that regular Joes and children would buy. I'm talking about lines that are geared more toward collectors. The Masterpiece line was intentionally made by TakaraTOMY as a high end line (that's actually what they call it) that's intended for collectors (in Japan the age range is "15 and up").

So let me make this very clear - I'm NOT talking about the regular TF lines that Mundaners and kids would be likely to buy. I'm only talking about collector-centric high end lines like Masterpiece.


You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.
I have. That's why I've opened this topic for discussion/debate here rather than just going ahead and doing it! I honestly don't know if my idea is a good one or not, so I thought it'd be good to present it for a healthy and constructive discussion.

I do see the pros and cons of what I'm suggesting. Here's how I see it...

Cooperative Buying
PROS:
Collectors would help other collectors without financial gain. Collectors who would otherwise risk missing out on these hard to find toys (especially those who may not live near a TRU) and may be coerced into paying inflated scalper prices online. Also prevents toys from falling in the hands of scalpers (REAL scalpers) who would hoard these toys and sell them later at inflated prices.
CONS:
People not involved in the cooperative stand to miss out. Does it make us elitist?

No Cooperative Buying
PROS:
Everyone (who is able to get to a TRU) has the chance to get the toy, regardless of being a collector or child (or scalper).
CONS:
High end toys may end up in the hands of an unappreciative child (today I saw a kid holding BH Optimus Prime and he was bending the sword into a circle! :eek:) or scalper. Collectors who do not live near a TRU are more likely to miss out without assistance from those of us who are fortunate to have access to TRUs.


Agree.
If someone goes to a TRU checkout with 5 MP Soundwaves and 5 MP Acidstorms then its scalping.....end of story.
So people who organise group orders are scalpers too? Cos aren't they doing the same thing, but only from an online store? The definition of scalping is:
to resell (tickets, merchandise, etc.) at a higher than the official rates.
to buy and sell so as to make...profits
You've never bought a toy for someone else or had someone buy a toy for you? :confused: Cos that's basically what I'm suggesting here, only on a more coordinated/larger level. I'm talking about ONLY selling the toys at the same price that they are purchased at, and not one cent above it. i.e. the buyer is merely recompensing the seller for the cost of the toy. It's EXACTLY what they would have paid themselves if they'd gone and found it at TRU themselves. Only that the seller has saved them the time and effort of hunting for one buy getting the toy for them.


Also, I only live 5 minutes from a TRU and if I go there to find they are all sold because a friendly member has bought them all for forum members, more than likely I will have to travel further than my 5 minutes to get it from someone's house.
Fair point. Then what you could do is hop on the thread and see if anyone in Perth is offering one. IF all those toys were taken by a friendly member, then that person should be offering them on the thread. You would then quickly reply and call dibs.

Having said that, I do see your point though. It would be pretty annoying if someone else went to your nearest TRU and cleared it of the MP you wanted, then offered it on the thread, but other people were all faster than you in hopping on the thread and grabbing them all before you could. Admittedly that would be pretty aggravating. Although on the flip side you could hope that someone else in Perth would get one from another TRU and you would jump on it fast enough.

Basically you either need to zip over to a TRU fast enough to grab one, or hop online fast enough to grab one. For most people who don't finish work until 5~6pm, they might have a better chance of hopping on the thread. I do see your point though. I sometimes feel that many of the MPs tend to sell first to people who are fortunate to have more flexible work hours.


A lot of people can't afford/risk buying a lot of these in one go either (like me).
Then you obviously wouldn't be one of the ones buying. :) The idea would be for people who see the toy and if they happen to be able to afford to get a spare, do so - then offer it on the board to a fellow collector at cost. If you can't afford it, then just get one for yourself and stick to the old fashioned way of posting a sighting.


At least promote that type of buying behaviour through private messaging on the forum, not through wide open threads.
Yes moderator.

It was only a suggestion. If most people don't like it, then just forget about it.

[BigTransformerTrev]

With MP Soundwave and Acid Storm around the corner, I've been wondering about something - given how hard it was to find MP Optimus Prime and Thundercracker (I personally never even saw 'Cracker in stores myself), would anyone be open to the idea of "cooperative buying" of these toys?

e.g. I don't need MP Soundwave, but say if I found one at a TRU, I could grab one immediately - then sell it to another OTCA member for the same price that I paid. It wouldn't be scalping, because the rule would be that we only charge whatever the store charges us (and people buying should only pay TRU prices). If people wanna charge an extra 'commission' for their time or fuel costs, then they should pre-arrange that with a buyer first. I'm personally willing to absorb those costs myself because I've had other people buy stuff for me plenty of times, so for me it's like paying it forward. :)

If people are interested in doing this, then perhaps we can start threads in Salesyard? The idea of this is that we ensure that these toys go to the hands of collectors rather than scalpers or children who may not appreciate the toys at the same level. I know that some people find this idea to be 'elitist' or 'snobbish,' but I don't. Masterpieces are explicitly designed for adult collectors (what Takara calls "high end" toys) rather than for children. I wouldn't recommend doing this for more mainstream TF toys that are aimed at kids like Transformers Prime, but I think Masterpiece is entirely different.

It's just a suggestion -- and if people are interested then perhaps we can start a thread. The rules would be simple... someone buys up MP Soundwaves and Acid Storms then quickly posts how many they have available to sell on that thread. The first person to reply on the thread (to avoid PM inbox clutter) gets first dibs on that toy.
e.g. say I buy an MP Soundwave from TRU, then post it on the thread. Now say The_Damned is the first to reply calling dibs on it. He pays me for the toy and gets the figure.

Whaddaya guys think of this idea? And also importantly, would such a suggestion be in any violation of existing board rules?


Totally on board with the idea!



Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.

You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.

Sharky - those words are spot on my friend. Fair way of thinking


Agree.
If someone goes to a TRU checkout with 5 MP Soundwaves and 5 MP Acidstorms then its scalping.....end of story. Also, I only live 5 minutes from a TRU and if I go there to find they are all sold because a friendly member has bought them all for forum members, more than likely I will have to travel further than my 5 minutes to get it from someone's house. A lot of people can't afford/risk buying a lot of these in one go either (like me).

At least promote that type of buying behaviour through private messaging on the forum, not through wide open threads.


Yeah but what do the likes of I do? I live a 5 hour drive away from the nearest TRU (Murrawee Victoria, the nearest is in Melbourne on the other side of state). It's not like I'm not getting Soundwave and Acid Storm because I'm lazy and can't be bothered to make it to the store, it's because it would be a full day trip leaving my wife and 5 month old son behind to trawl toy shops on the off chance of getting one. I was very lucky a mate got the MP-10 Optimus for me and posted it, wasn't so lucky with Thundercracker. While you say it's not fair to those that put in the hard yards and check the shops themselves, you need to consider is it fair to the people who cannot access those shops - is it their fault that TRU didn't build a store in their town?



good idea Gok it would help someone like me who doesn't live near toys r us. maybe a chance to get one

+1 :D

[Defcon]

I think the tidiest way to help out other members, is to not list in sales, just make a request to offer assistance those who can't get to a Toys R Us. This seems fair. Having it in sales unfortunately will be disappointing for others who miss out retail, and then miss out again in sales!! I would be annoyed if I was one of those people. But then again maybe that's just how it is.

[lancalot]

i like the idea... looking at it this way... i rather a member buy it all and then rebuying it from him at cost rather then a scalper coming in and getting it all then selling it at inflated prices ... because no matter what we say they going to do it anyways...
I for one rather have that option of going on this forum and getting one if i miss out from the store ,then not and the only change of obtaining one from ebay at an inflated price?

[jazzcomp]

A lot of us miss out when there's a reservation basis. Calling in first vs coming to the store first which has happened to me with MP-10. There at lunch time but all were reserved over the phone.

I agree with the idea of members buying for other members. If there was enough for everyone, I wouldn't support this. But the quantity isn't enough.

Member here helped a few members out with Frosty cars that we couldn't find in our local Targets.

[Tober]

A big part of life is networking.

I don't see any way of regulating who buys what for who, but is there really anyone here who would be buying more than three at a time for themselves and other members..?

I said I'd help out The_Damned get a MP Soundwave if I found one. I'm after an Acid Storm, so far that's it for me. And if I end up having to pre-order from Hong Kong or Japan... <shrugs>.

[griffin]

The concept of a secret sighting section never got off the ground because it was polarising too many people. People who feared missing out because they didn't feel comfortable relying on others, or even contacting others, would see it as being "elitist" if other groups of members banded together to get to the occasional "collector-targeted" items before a toy-dealer did (or parents who just bought something at random and should have bought a mainstream item instead for their kid). Sure, we could try to reassure these people to get involved so that everyone who wants a sought-after figure gets one, but there will always be people who are unwilling or unable.


The reason why I was initially proposing an idea like this, was because, what's the point of having a community, if individualism is put first (survival of the fittest). A community only exists as a concept if those within it contribute, to get something back in return. In this instance, one-off high-demand items that aren't intended for regular kids or parents buying the odd Transformers toy, would actually go to the people TRU were aiming for... without having to pay more than retail, which would ultimately lead to a backlash to TRU. Their job is to get people into their store and relying on them so that they become repeat customers. Something that wont happen if a toydealer buys up all the stock and hocks it off at a higher price, prompting the target audience to just import anyway and not bother with TRU ever again.

I even went to the trouble of recently asking TRU to implement a reservation scheme, to allow people to reserve up to two of each Masterpiece toy, so that the target audience could be guaranteed to get one when they come in, AND, be able to help at least one other who is not near a TRU store. Because face it, most of us might be near one, but why should we be selfish and not help those who are not near one, by getting one for them as well.
(for those wondering - TRU rejected the proposal because they said it would be too difficult to implement... and they said that they were not allowed to demand ID proof when people pick up)

So for now, if you want to work together in a co-operative, communal manner to help out those who can't get to a TRU store when they are released, you can't do it publicly on this board.

[GoktimusPrime]

A big part of life is networking.

I don't see any way of regulating who buys what for who, but is there really anyone here who would be buying more than three at a time for themselves and other members..?
I might if I had the available funds at the time I saw the toys. As for regulation, it would be a case of "first post first serve" on the thread.

So say you buy an MP Soundwave and you post something like,
"Just bought an MP Soundwave. Who wants it?"
Then let's say The_Damned is the first to reply,
"Yes please!" then let's say Bartrim posts a minute later, "Me!" -- because The_Damned's post appears first after yours, he would get first dibs. If The_Damned bows out, then Bartrim would be next in line. You would then post to notify who will be receiving the toy (letting everyone know that it's spoken for), then PM the relevant party to sort out details.

Again, this is all just a suggestion. ;)


So for now, if you want to work together in a co-operative, communal manner to help out those who can't get to a TRU store when they are released, you can't do it publicly on this board.
Well, that settles that then. :)

[Tober]

So for now, if you want to work together in a co-operative, communal manner to help out those who can't get to a TRU store when they are released, you can't do it publicly on this board.

Fair enough.

[jazzcomp]

Sure, we could try to reassure these people to get involved so that everyone who wants a sought-after figure gets one, but there will always be people who are unwilling or unable.

The reason why I was initially proposing an idea like this, was because, what's the point of having a community, if individualism is put first (survival of the fittest). A community only exists as a concept if those within it contribute, to get something back in return.
I certainly agree with this. But should the unwilling or unable deter the majority that are willing/able?


So for now, if you want to work together in a co-operative, communal manner to help out those who can't get to a TRU store when they are released, you can't do it publicly on this board.


Well, that settles that then. :)

Fair enough.
MP - Meet instead? :D
Definitely will follow the statement above.

[Trent]

As others have stated, it's all well and good for those that live 5 minutes from a TRU to say they are against the idea. But for those that live hours away, well it's a different kettle of fish.

I actualy live 10 minutes from a TRU, but their selection is poor to say the least. They got a few MP-10 but never saw a TC. Fortunately another board member here helped me out with one. My next nearest TRU is over an hour away. So with toy collecting NOT being my entire life if someone stated that they saw 6 MP Soundwave's at TRU Miranda today, I more than likely wouldn't be able to get there until Saturday, by which case they would all be gone.

I gladly support Gok's idea and strongly disagree with the comparison to scalping. As stated earlier, if this is scalping, then so is arranging group buys.

[Sky Shadow]

When I find Masterpiece Soundwave or Acid Storm at Toys 'R' Us, I've decided to settle this debate by dousing them with kerosene and lighting them on fire.

[janda the red]

When I find Masterpiece Soundwave or Acid Storm at Toys 'R' Us, I've decided to settle this debate by dousing them with kerosene and lighting them on fire.

lol.... :p

i like the way you think!

:D

[Deonasis]

When I find Masterpiece Soundwave or Acid Storm at Toys 'R' Us, I've decided to settle this debate by dousing them with kerosene and lighting them on fire.While sloshing that kero around you better be screaming "IT'S A FIRE SALE!"

[i_amtrunks]

While sloshing that kero around you better be screaming "IT'S A FIRE SALE!"

Carry a kreon Inferno at the same time so if anyone asks, what you are doing, you can reply "It's okay, this guy'll look after you!" :D

[UltraMarginal]

I can't see why we don't proceed in the same manner we have with items like this in the past.

someone posts that they would like to get hold of MP soundwave and/or acid storm but it's too far for them to get to a TRU.

someone else sees that post and offers to pick one up on their behalf, and either post it for them or hand it over at an upcoming meet up where both will be in attendance.

money could be handled prior to TRU purchase or COD.

This takes all the uncertainty out of it and reduces potential hoarding from non-members who are still transformers fans and want to get these items.

[canofwhoopass_87]

Bit of misinterpretation here - there's nothing wrong with getting in touch with a fellow member to pick one up for you in store if you live far away or have difficulty visiting the shops regularly.

The issue here is publicly promoting hoarding so that what little stock available falls into the hands of a select few. This just creates an unfair environment for everyone else. Whilst this may curb scalping to a degree, arguing that we (as collectors) are more deserving of these than anyone else is simply elitist.




High end toys may end up in the hands of an unappreciative child (today I saw a kid holding BH Optimus Prime and he was bending the sword into a circle! :eek:) or scalper.

When I first joined these threads as a teenager I must admit I did have my head real far up my ass. I made some pretty foolish choices with my collecting and conducted myself quite poorly during those early days, but I guess that's part of growing up. One thing I did learn over the years though is that promoting any form of elitism really doesn't have any place in a tf collecting community.

What's it matter if a child doesn't take care of their Transformers as well as you do? If my son wanted a MP Soundwave for his birthday and I shelled out $150 for him to enjoy it, what's it to you if he breaks it? Masterpiece or not, it's my money isn't it?

Doesn't matter if you're a collector buying a toy made for collectors. It's not written anywhere that these are only for collectors. If there's limited stock, being a collector does NOT automatically mean you should have preference over a child. It's pretty sad for an adult collector to argue otherwise.

Similarly, you can go out and buy a vintage sealed G1 and post photos in the "vintage liberation thread" as much as you like. Whilst I may shed some tears, it's not my place to go out and tell you to stop buying sealed G1's because I believe I am more suitable to have it.

For every collector that misses out on a MP Soundwave, I hope that there's one more child that enjoys it instead.

[Trent]

Bit of misinterpretation here - there's nothing wrong with getting in touch with a fellow member to pick one up for you in store if you live far away or have difficulty visiting the shops regularly.

The issue here is publicly promoting hoarding so that what little stock available falls into the hands of a select few. This just creates an unfair environment for everyone else. Whilst this may curb scalping to a degree, arguing that we (as collectors) are more deserving of these than anyone else is simply elitist.




When I first joined these threads as a teenager I must admit I did have my head real far up my ass. I made some pretty foolish choices with my collecting and conducted myself quite poorly during those early days, but I guess that's part of growing up. One thing I did learn over the years though is that promoting any form of elitism really doesn't have any place in a tf collecting community.

What's it matter if a child doesn't take care of their Transformers as well as you do? If my son wanted a MP Soundwave for his birthday and I shelled out $150 for him to enjoy it, what's it to you if he breaks it? Masterpiece or not, it's my money isn't it?

Doesn't matter if you're a collector buying a toy made for collectors. It's not written anywhere that these are only for collectors. If there's limited stock, being a collector does NOT automatically mean you should have preference over a child. It's pretty sad for an adult collector to argue otherwise.

Similarly, you can go out and buy a vintage sealed G1 and post photos in the "vintage liberation thread" as much as you like. Whilst I may shed some tears, it's not my place to go out and tell you to stop buying sealed G1's because I believe I am more suitable to have it.

For every collector that misses out on a MP Soundwave, I hope that there's one more child that enjoys it instead.

I in no way think I am more deserving of a particular toy than anyone else. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try my hardest to get one. And if I can do that by someone on this board offering me one of 3 they bought for this purpose, then I'll take it and props to them. And if I'm in a position to do the same for them, then I will.

And besides, I see this as no different to helping out friends. ;)

[griffin]

It's not like we are going to prevent non-members here from having a chance, as there are supposed to be 800 Soundwaves across the 35 ToysRUs stores. We don't have that many people here wanting one.

In relation to people claiming it is "elitist" of us trying to secure these types of toys - It isn't elitist if TRU have specifically stated that we (the dedicated collectors) are the ones they are targeting with these types of exclusives.... which they go to some trouble organising.

Something they won't do in future if the people they are targeting (us) just not bother to go into the store and instead import items, believing we are likely to miss out due to people who don't need them (scalpers) and people who won't appreciate them (parents/kids buying a random toy).

[Lint]

.... which they go to some trouble organising.

Something they won't do in future if the people they are targeting (us) just not bother to go into the store and instead import items, believing we are likely to miss out due to people who don't need them (scalpers) and people who won't appreciate them (parents/kids buying a random toy).

This statement makes no sense. Even if scalpers do not exist and kids/parents will not be able to afford this toy; the only reason why I would not bother patronising a TRU is if they are not "first-to-market" or if their prices are higher than import+shipping.

Secondly I will not feel obligated to participate in mass-buying simply to encourage a retailer to import things I like in future.

23 soundwaves per store may or may not be the ideal number to bring into Australia for them to make a decent profit but thats on them, not us.

[griffin]

the only reason why I would not bother patronising a TRU is if they are not "first-to-market" or if their prices are higher than import+shipping.

Apparently (based on comments here in the past) a lot of people would prefer to pay more at TRU than import, because it is easier and more reliable. There is still a limit though, like with Ghost Starscream, and even still people would rather skip it than go to the hassle of finding one online and waiting for it to (maybe) show up... and then not have the ability to exchange it when the inevitable QC issue is found.

In the end TRU will still order in items that should sell, to someone... and if it causes their frontline staff grief, the head-office doesn't seem too worried about it.

[millhouse]

I think the idea of a logged-in members only forum for sightings is worth it. It's not hard to join up, read some discussions, make some purchases or chime in on a few topics. I did it just recently.

It's a collector's forum and I think it's not a case of "OMG BUY ALL STOCK", but it certainly helps sightings, and people passing on information to each other.

I'd rather know that it's not just a case of people jumping on, reading, buying stock en mass, and not even contributing to the community.

The reason I say that is there have been a lot of sales here that are good members selling good items at very fair prices. That's the kind of people this board seems to attract, and that's exceptionally positive. I dug finding two items I was chasing, in my city, and bought at a more than fair price from a fellow boardie.

A hell of a lot better than having someone find something, post it's sighting, and having a scalper buy the shelf before you can make it to the store. That's something I (honestly believe) saw happen to me just last week.

As I said, I joined up because I wanted to get involved. It's not hard to do so either.

[MayzaPrime]

So what would this mean for someone like me who has over 1600 TFs and I have been collecting for 28yrs but only of a rank 3?

[Cat]

So what would this mean for someone like me who has over 1600 TFs and I have been collecting for 28yrs but only of a rank 3?

Nothing, as the *hypothetical* system is based on board participation, not collection-size or loyalty to the brand.

You're right, it may seem a bit unfair that someone collecting for 6 months could theoretically get a choice tip on a hot new figure, over someone who's been doing this for 10 years. But that hypothetical person/people should realise what the purpose of community is, and that they're welcome to the same information, they just have to participate (and participate means exactly that. You don't have to provide insider info on who MP30 is to count. It's introducing yourself, and participating).

The flipside to the loyalty to the brand thing is that if you've got a hot tip on a highly desirable figure, do you want it to go to others who participate actively to make the board what it is, and possibly provide reciprocal tips for other items that could aid you, or some random guy who just types in the address once a year to get the new MP, and if he knows that someone's reserved one, he can say that it was him and they got the name wrong and take it (happened to me once with a Star Wars item).

Exact rank is kind of a moot point for this stage of a very hypothetical idea. But personally, I'd be fine with being excluded, because all it would mean is that I need to contribute more of myself to discussions, you know.

After all, my chances to get the item would be the same as they've always been. I just wouldn't get that additional heads-up that increases my chances of getting it. People would still see that the toy is out, just not the specifics, and probably not for more than a week or two.

If it's just me, my odds of successfully finding that elusive desirable item is *1*. With additional, specific sightings info that I get from the collective knowledge and experiences of the board, my odds increase to *1.10*, maybe. I still have to be on here at the right time to see the post for my area, if it's something that's snapped up so quickly. So it's very situational. Your benefit would be a matter of hours for a sighting, not days, really.

*All that is just IMO, and from what I think the general groove of the conversation has been. I could be completely wrong, and could be projecting my own thoughts on it a bit much.

** There are counterpoints to everything I've said that are just as valid. My key words are 'community' and 'participation'.

[Bidoofdude]

Could we get like a survey or something for the amount of people wanting each product that is hard to find, such as the amount hoping to get a Hasbro Soundwave, to get a better approximation? ;)

[speros]

I went to Hong Kong at the begining of June this year and guys I'm telling you you have to go there with an empty suitcase and a minimum of AUD2000 for TF toys and they have almost every MP you want. but the shops are hidden in towers and warehouses you gotta google the shops and go searching I brought back a few things from there including a spare head (AU25) for my 1 metre Optimus prime tower!! I wish I took more money

[griffin]

So what would this mean for someone like me who has over 1600 TFs and I have been collecting for 28yrs but only of a rank 3?

The ranking system is just a reciprocating system... the more people interact here in the fan sections (news, sightings, discussion), the more they get back from the benefits of the higher rankings.
It isn't an elitist thing, for people to boast about their rankings... it is just there to make it easier for members (particularly staff and senior members) to know who has access to certain things here, because it isn't easy to remember what everyone has access to, and a post-count doesn't guarantee it either (as some people leave, or are sporadic... or they primarily just post in the sales and/or non-TFs sections so haven't earned access to fan-related extras).

I also try to include as many fans as possible in the higher rankings who contribute in other ways - like, people who attend meets more than they post here*, or were Ozformers members before our messageboard even started up but are more sporadic now. Which is why a very small handful of Deluxe Members have small post counts. It doesn't come down to how long you were a fan or how many toys you have... if you interact here or have contributed to the local fandom, this site will try to reward you. If a person isn't here very often or doesn't contribute, isn't it a waste giving them access to extra features here?


*This is one of the reasons I like travelling around the country (as I've been doing in the last few months), to try to meet up with people who may not be too active on the board, but contribute by attending the meets (making them more fun by having more people). After doing Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane so far this year, I have two more capital cities I plan to visit before the end of 2013... so am hoping to add more people to the roster soon.

[jazzcomp]

Could we get like a survey or something for the amount of people wanting each product that is hard to find, such as the amount hoping to get a Hasbro Soundwave, to get a better approximation? ;)
Just look at what happened with TRU Hasbro MP Prime. That kind of demand would probably happen.

[Bidoofdude]

Just look at what happened with TRU Hasbro MP Prime. That kind of demand would probably happen.

Well put. Hmm. This is actually quite a controversal matter here, it seems. ;)

[lj7369]

Scalpers know the release dates fairly easily if they bother to make an effort.
TRU US website is listing it already. when it comes down to it, if i found the item(s) in question, knew of someone, (especially in a rural situation) who was never going to be able to pick it up,i would aquire one or eight depending on my financial situation at the time, i dont believe that its wrong as long as they have a place to go to.
A secret sightings idea will slow scalping from here, but it imo wont make 2 shades of difference in the end.
From working in retail, its pure luck of the draw, i remember with prime at pac fair tru, i was told he had arrived on monday afternoon by a staff member, who looked for him among 12 pallets of load (what i was told and the truth may differ), return tuesday to be informed they sold out, call wednesday and ask for mp tc details, to be told "he's here, ill put one aside if you like, would you like the red truck one too??" it all depends on how much they care to recieve their $20 an hour.
my 2 cents.

[GoktimusPrime]

Scalpers know the release dates fairly easily if they bother to make an effort.
Yeah but not all scalpers would be that diligent. The idea may help to reduce the number of toys scooped up by more opportunistic scalpers.


TRU US website is listing it already.
But that wouldn't indicate the Australian release date, would it? I remember before MP OP came out, I kept on calling TRU including their head office about when this toy would come out, and they couldn't give me an exact date. :( It was more like, "Whenever we get it from Hasbro." And Hasbro were like, "Whenever we receive orders from TRU." Gah! :rolleyes:


when it comes down to it, if i found the item(s) in question, knew of someone, (especially in a rural situation) who was never going to be able to pick it up,i would aquire one or eight depending on my financial situation at the time, i dont believe that its wrong as long as they have a place to go to.
I agree, that's not scalping. Scalping is the idea of buying a toy and then later reselling it at an increased price. If you're buying a toy and then reselling it at cost and not making any personal profit, then it's not scalping. You're just helping out your fellow collectors. :)

What I find objectionable is when people buy out a certain toy, often making it harder to find than it normally would be, and then later trying to sell it off at an inflated price. Mind you... half the problem is also collectors who pay scalper prices. Honestly the best way to combat scalping is to NOT pay above retail prices for any current/recent toy. People will only continue to scalp if collectors are willing to keep them in business by paying their stupid prices.


A secret sightings idea will slow scalping from here, but it imo wont make 2 shades of difference in the end.
Impeding the progress of scalpers can make a significant difference, especially if the toy is in limited supply. Imagine if a TRU only gets a small handful of MPs -- a secret sighting section may help collectors to swoop in and get them before someone else does. It's a short term "band aid" solution for sure... the best solution is really just to not give scalpers our business in the first place.