How much of your G1 collection is reissues?

[GoktimusPrime]

Got this idea from this thread (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=14996&page=4) -- how much of your G1 collection is pure original G1, and how much of it is reissues?

Let's set some parameters for this thread:
* We're not looking at variants
* We're only looking at reissues where you do not have the original G1 toy for - if you have both the original and reissue, then we're not counting that toy-character
* We're just looking at Hasbro G1 please

Example
I have 401/450 G1 Transformer toys (making my G1 collection 89% complete). Out of those 401 G1 TFs, 16 of them are reissues where I do _NOT_ have the original G1s. Thus 3.99% (so that falls in the "0-5%" option for the purposes of this thread's poll) of my G1 collection are reissues where I do not have the originals.

e.g. I have 6 different G1 Bumblebees, two are originals and four are reissues (all variants) - for this thread they all count as x1 toy-character (i.e. 1984 Bumblebee).

My reissues where I do not have originals are:
1984 Jazz - TFC and Commemorative Series
1984 Prowl - 1990 Classic reissue
1984 Sideswipe - 1991 Classic reissue
1984 Megatron - 2001 reissue (used to have original but it got stolen)
1985 Red Alert - Commemorative Series reissue
1985 Smokescreen - TFC reissue
1985 Tracks - 1991 Classic reissue
1985 Perceptor - TFC reissue (offloaded original to another OTCA member after getting reissue)
1985 Ultra Magnus - Commemorative Series reissue (original was stolen)
1985 Sky Lynx - Encore reissue (original never sold in Australia)
1986 Galvatron - reissue & eHobby (original stolen)
1986 Dead End - 1990 Classic reissue
1986 Wildrider - 1990 Classic reissue
1987 Targetmaster Hot Rod - TFC reissue (original never sold in AU)
1987 Targetmaster Kup - TFC reissue (original never sold in AU)
1990 Action Master Optimus Prime - New Year Special reissue

Note: I'm not saying that they're anything bad or wrong with having reissues - I loves 'em. Just curious to know what percentage of our G1 collections are reissues. :) Feel free to discuss your thoughts about originals and reissues. :D

[BigTransformerTrev]

The vast majority of my G1 collection are originals, but the following are reissues:

Autobots
Cliffjumper
Bumblebee (have an original Red bumblebee though)
Hoist
Grapple
Red Alert
Skids
Bluestreak
Smokescreen
Swoop
Slag
Hot Rod
Ultra Magnus
Powermaster Optimus Prime
Strafe
Lightspeed

Decepticons
Megatron
Galvatron
Skywarp
Thundercracker
Rumble
Frenzy
Laserbeak
All 5 Predacons
5 of the 6 Constructions (I have an original Scrapper)
3 of the 5 Terrorcons (I have original an Hun-Grrr and don't have Blot)
4 of the 6 Seacons (I have an original Snap Trap and Nautilator)
Sixshot

I am 99% certain my Trailbreaker and Gnaw are originals, but I have friends who argue both sides of the fence - some insist they are originals and others insist they are reissues. Until one side proclaims victory I say that my Gnaw is definetly original, but Trailbreaker could possibly be a reissue. Personally I have never been too worried about the distinction, as I am just happy to have the figures. That said, when Encore Fort Max comes out, I will be proclaiming loudly to all that will hear how I have the original, not the re-release ;)

[theshape]

Zero :o Im a hardcore vintage only collector. Part of collecting for me is the historical aspect, i love the fact that all my toys are 20-30 years old

[Sharky]

i only have 2 reissues that take the palce of a g1 original.

[Skullcruncher]

Zero :o Im a hardcore vintage only collector. Part of collecting for me is the historical aspect, i love the fact that all my toys are 20-30 years old

Same, but I do have e-hobby sunstorm or whatever his name is, but I feel like I should sell him everytime I move his box..... I also recently purchased a ''classic's" octane but hes got a specific task ahead of him then hes going to be sold once his mission is completed :D

[Megatron]

Being a completist I like to collect both. However, they are distinctly separate categories for me so I won't ever say, "I have a G1 Starscream" when in fact what I have is an Encore. I will say, "I have an Encore G1 Starscream" to clarify, otherwise I think it can be misleading. I undestand that many collectors consider them the same in many respects, but I don't. So if I proclaim for example that I have a G1 Megatron, then what I mean is I have an original G1 Megatron from 1984.

So I don't really like it when someone says they've got a particular G1 toy (without clarifying further)... but later I find out it's actually a reissue. It's technically a G1 toy sure, but to me when I hear someone say they own one I always think, "ooh... a vintage G1 toy!" So I agree with shape; the historical aspect of the originals puts them into a class all their own and is one of the best things about them.

So as I mentioned, the only G1 reissue I own at the moment is an Encore Starscream (though I plan to also own an original G1 Starscream). Not because I don't like reissues - I do - I'm just a relatively new collector and still have a lot of catching up to do.



...
My reissues where I do not have originals are:
1984 Jazz - TFC and Commemorative Series
1984 Prowl - 1990 Classic reissue
1984 Sideswipe - 1991 Classic reissue
1984 Megatron - 2001 reissue (used to have original but it got stolen)
1985 Red Alert - Commemorative Series reissue
1985 Smokescreen - TFC reissue
1985 Tracks - 1991 Classic reissue
1985 Perceptor - TFC reissue (offloaded original to another OTCA member after getting reissue)
1985 Ultra Magnus - Commemorative Series reissue (original was stolen)
1985 Sky Lynx - Encore reissue (original never sold in Australia)
1986 Galvatron - reissue & eHobby (original stolen)
1986 Dead End - 1990 Classic reissue
1986 Wildrider - 1990 Classic reissue
1987 Targetmaster Hot Rod - TFC reissue (original never sold in AU)
1987 Targetmaster Kup - TFC reissue (original never sold in AU)
1990 Action Master Optimus Prime - New Year Special reissue

I'm sorry to hear you had a few originals stolen... man that's a really low act. :( Did this happen recently?

[kup]

5% or less. Most of the reissues I own have their vintage G1 figure counterpart.

As mentioned in the other thread, to me an official re-release of a toy that is faithful to the original counts as part of the G1 line. My collection may only have less than a handful of reissues but I still see them as part of my collection.

[kup]

Same, but I do have e-hobby sunstorm or whatever his name is, but I feel like I should sell him everytime I move his box..... I also recently purchased a ''classic's" octane but hes got a specific task ahead of him then hes going to be sold once his mission is completed :D

I have Sunstorm but I don't count him as vintage G1 since that repaint was never part of that line.

[5FDP]

I would say that at a guess, 80% of mine would be original G1 toys. Due to my obsessive behaviour in obtaining mint specimens, reissues were the way to go for some as vintage MISB were out of my price range. I'm also proud of the fact that the majority of G1 toys that I own were mine when I was a kid and that same obsessive behaviour allowed me to keep them in perfect condition even though they were played with. Only Megatron suffered slightly, but nothing a few reprolabels wouldn't fix :p


I am 99% certain my Trailbreaker and Gnaw are originals, but I have friends who argue both sides of the fence - some insist they are originals and others insist they are reissues. Until one side proclaims victory I say that my Gnaw is definetly original, but Trailbreaker could possibly be a reissue.

Your Gnaw, unless it is a KO, would be an original as it was never reissued. The Encore release of Trailbreaker has a blue visor; the original has red. Hope that helps.

[BigTransformerTrev]

So I don't really like it when someone says they've got a particular G1 toy (without clarifying further)... but later I find out it's actually a reissue. It's technically a G1 toy sure, but to me when I hear someone say they own one I always think, "ooh... a vintage G1 toy!" So I agree with shape; the historical aspect of the originals puts them into a class all their own and is one of the best things about them.



When I catalouge my TF's I tend to put them under G1, but then put a little (R) next to their name. But the vast majority of my friends don't really care so I only bring it up if I'm showing them off to another collector and they want to know



I have Sunstorm but I don't count him as vintage G1 since that repaint was never part of that line.

The same, I put him under 'Special Figures' in my own private catalouge, though I think I have his photo under G1 figures in my FB album





Your Gnaw, unless it is a KO, would be an original as it was never reissued. The Encore release of Trailbreaker has a blue visor; the original has red. Hope that helps.

Ha! I knew it! And my Trailbreaker DOES have a red visor so he is original! Cheers mate!

[GoktimusPrime]

Zero :o Im a hardcore vintage only collector. Part of collecting for me is the historical aspect, i love the fact that all my toys are 20-30 years old
My G1 collection is predominantly from my childhood - so it was purchased MISB/MOSC from regular stores in the 1980s/90s, and that's still how I generally collect my toys today (I personally don't see the appeal of buying toys off the secondary market, especially if the price is inflated). So while I did build a fairly sizable collection as best as I could, but I wasn't able to collect _everything_, so with some of the stuff I missed in the 80s I'm happy to get a reissue, because to me it's a LOT better than paying what I consider to be rip off aftermarket prices for originals. I often like to buy reissues and "retire" my original G1s as display pieces, while the reissues become my new play pieces. :D


Your Gnaw, unless it is a KO, would be an original as it was never reissued. The Encore release of Trailbreaker has a blue visor; the original has red. Hope that helps.
True, Gnaw's never been reissued. The 2001 Trailbreaker reissue had a red visor IIRC, but that's an extremely ultra rare convention exclusive toy that was sold in Collectors Edition packaging (http://tfsource.com/public_img/reduced-image_1736_106.jpg) and sold with Collectors Edition Hoist (http://tfsource.com/public_img/reduced-image_1725_106.jpg) (both sold for 6000JPY or $68). Considering the rarity of these toys, I'd say that you would certainly know if you'd bought one! :) The much more common Trailbreaker reissue has a blue visor, and also the Autobot logo on the chest/bonnet is a tampograph, not a sticker.


When I catalouge my TF's I tend to put them under G1, but then put a little (R) next to their name. But the vast majority of my friends don't really care so I only bring it up if I'm showing them off to another collector and they want to know
Yeah, good point - and I do the same. If I'm talking to another collector, then I'll point out which ones are reissues and which aren't... but otherwise I usually don't go into detail, since they wouldn't really know/understand/care about it. :p But if they pick up a reissue and go, "omg! An original Jazz!" I will tell them that it's a reissue.

[Shirokaze]

100% of my G1s are reissues unfortunately. I think I still have an original Sideswipe and Swindle lying around somewhere from when I was a kid, but after at least 15 years of play, they're more junkers than collectibles.

[Ploughmans Lunch]

Vast majority of what I have G1 wise will be reissues, since I'm only starting to collect and the difference is negligible to me I suppose!

As far as G1s go, I think I own Rewind and G2 (if that counts?) Tank Megatron. I suppose once I've completed the reissues I want then I'll start dipping my toes into originals, if I want :)

[GoktimusPrime]

Nothin' wrong with reissues, fellas. :) While I did most of my G1 collecting from 1984-93, if I were to start collecting G1 now I would absolutely be going for reissues instead of the originals. It could be the difference between paying $2000 for a loose in box G1 Fortress Maximus (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORTRESS-MAXIMUS-G1-TRANSFORMER-HEADMASTER-AUTOBOT-BASE-W-ORIGINAL-BOX-COMPLETE-/170951611415?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4119723648879088697%26pid%3 D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D170951611415% 26), or $300 for a Minty Fresh reissue Encore Fortress Maximus (with sword!)... I'll take the reissue and save myself $1700! ;)

Another great thing about reissues is that a LOT of the more popular G1 toys have at one stage or another, been reissued - some of them have been reissued multiple times over. I did the math, and you can actually complete 75% of early G1 (1984-86) by collecting reissues alone! :eek: :D


As far as G1s go, I think I own Rewind and G2 (if that counts?)
For the purposes of this thread, we're just looking at G1, so the Transformers released by Hasbro from 1984-93 - the only G2 ones included would be "G1.5" (G1 toys that were later repackaged as G2, but the toys themselves are identical; e.g. Lightformers, Trakkons, Obliterators etc.).


I'm sorry to hear you had a few originals stolen... man that's a really low act. :( Did this happen recently?
Nah, it was back in 2005. I came home one day to find my collection looking like this...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/aftermath.jpg
Everything they stole was in a box -- because at the time, when I "retired" by original G1s, I put them in the reissue boxes for display, and left the reissues loose on shelves for easy play access. The thief also stole some other non vintage toys that were in box, like my Binaltech Asterisk Red Alert (*sigh*). So a word of warning to those of you who like to keep your toys in boxes -- they look more appealing to thieves. A lot of my most valuable toys were untouched because they were displayed loose!


I am 99% certain my Trailbreaker and Gnaw are originals, but I have friends who argue both sides of the fence - some insist they are originals and others insist they are reissues. Until one side proclaims victory I say that my Gnaw is definetly original, but Trailbreaker could possibly be a reissue. Personally I have never been too worried about the distinction, as I am just happy to have the figures. That said, when Encore Fort Max comes out, I will be proclaiming loudly to all that will hear how I have the original, not the re-release ;)
This guide (http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17) shows you how to tell the difference between an original and fake Gnaw. The differences are in the packaging:
* The purple background is too red on the counterfeit.
* The sun burst behind the character art does not fade right.
* On the counterfeit, the grid lines blend together with the sun burst, making them hard to see.
* Some come with the golden sticker of the Japanese mail-in version. Others do not.
* On early runs of the counterfeit, Gnaw's face is not painted. On later runs, it is painted, like on a real Gnaw.
* On the counterfeit, the bubble has usually fallen off the card (weak glue) or is stapled in place.
And here (http://highendtfs.com/images/idguide/sharkticons_compare.jpg) is a side by side comparison image - legit on the left, fake on the right. Hope that helps. :)

-----------------------------------------------------

I got curious and did some rough calculation... approx. 85% of my (very small) Japanese G1 collection are reissues alone. :p

[Bidoofdude]

Being a completist I like to collect both. However, they are distinctly separate categories for me so I won't ever say, "I have a G1 Starscream" when in fact what I have is an Encore. I will say, "I have an Encore G1 Starscream" to clarify, otherwise I think it can be misleading. I undestand that many collectors consider them the same in many respects, but I don't. So if I proclaim for example that I have a G1 Megatron, then what I mean is I have an original G1 Megatron from 1984.

So I don't really like it when someone says they've got a particular G1 toy (without clarifying further)... but later I find out it's actually a reissue. It's technically a G1 toy sure, but to me when I hear someone say they own one I always think, "ooh... a vintage G1 toy!" So I agree with shape; the historical aspect of the originals puts them into a class all their own and is one of the best things about them.

So as I mentioned, the only G1 reissue I own at the moment is an Encore Starscream (though I plan to also own an original G1 Starscream). Not because I don't like reissues - I do - I'm just a relatively new collector and still have a lot of catching up to do.



I'm sorry to hear you had a few originals stolen... man that's a really low act. :( Did this happen recently?

I too am quite new to collecting, so I will mostly get reissues.
100% of mine are reissues, as I am fairly new to collecting. And the fact that I only have classics Soundwave and Encore 19. I just really like G1 esque packaging.

[Megatron]

When I catalouge my TF's I tend to put them under G1, but then put a little (R) next to their name. But the vast majority of my friends don't really care so I only bring it up if I'm showing them off to another collector and they want to know

Good idea. And of course, it only really matters when talking to people who care and know the difference.



Nah, it was back in 2005. I came home one day to find my collection looking like this...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/aftermath.jpg
Everything they stole was in a box -- because at the time, when I "retired" by original G1s, I put them in the reissue boxes for display, and left the reissues loose on shelves for easy play access. The thief also stole some other non vintage toys that were in box, like my Binaltech Asterisk Red Alert (*sigh*). So a word of warning to those of you who like to keep your toys in boxes -- they look more appealing to thieves. A lot of my most valuable toys were untouched because they were displayed loose!

It's always really sad when something like this happens, especially considering how much we collectors value our collections. At least they didn't take more than what they did... live and learn I guess!


I too am quite new to collecting, so I will mostly get reissues.
100% of mine are reissues, as I am fairly new to collecting. And the fact that I only have classics Soundwave and Encore 19. I just really like G1 esque packaging.

Soundwave and his cassettes, awesome! :D

[BigTransformerTrev]

Nothin' wrong with reissues, fellas. :) While I did most of my G1 collecting from 1984-93, if I were to start collecting G1 now I would absolutely be going for reissues instead of the originals. It could be the difference between paying $2000 for a loose in box G1 Fortress Maximus (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORTRESS-MAXIMUS-G1-TRANSFORMER-HEADMASTER-AUTOBOT-BASE-W-ORIGINAL-BOX-COMPLETE-/170951611415?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4119723648879088697%26pid%3 D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D170951611415% 26), or $300 for a Minty Fresh reissue Encore Fortress Maximus (with sword!)... I'll take the reissue and save myself $1700! ;)

STOP RUBBING IT IN YA BUGGER!!! lol


This guide (http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17) shows you how to tell the difference between an original and fake Gnaw. The differences are in the packaging:
* The purple background is too red on the counterfeit.
* The sun burst behind the character art does not fade right.
* On the counterfeit, the grid lines blend together with the sun burst, making them hard to see.
* Some come with the golden sticker of the Japanese mail-in version. Others do not.
* On early runs of the counterfeit, Gnaw's face is not painted. On later runs, it is painted, like on a real Gnaw.
* On the counterfeit, the bubble has usually fallen off the card (weak glue) or is stapled in place.
And here (http://highendtfs.com/images/idguide/sharkticons_compare.jpg) is a side by side comparison image - legit on the left, fake on the right. Hope that helps. :)

-----------------------------------------------------




Yeah, one of the guys who was arguing that it wasn't an original showed me that, but then we went though the list and my Gnaw and his box didn't have all those imperfections

[Pipesqueak]

I have often replaced originals in good condition with reissues in order to have a mint version. That perfect condition to me is far more important than the original/reissue distinction. And you get to open a brand new 'G1' toy, like being a kid again!

[Jetfire in the sky]

This is a great thread.
Can I just add to my comment about value of originals dropping when a reissue comes out. As a collector I don't buy to re-sell but if one were to fall on hard times or changes in circumstances it is pretty heartbreaking when you go to sell and your item is half of what you paid for. I was massively hard up for cash in the mid 2000's and had a huge sell up, I was lucky though the secondary market was quite strong then.

For me originals are about the hunt, the feel of a box and a toy that is 25 years old, it has stood the test of time. It is a modern antique. And if needed I will pay what I have to to get it.

A reissue (as we have seen here) is a great way to get back or start collecting G1 era items, and this could lead to a true G1 love. They are also good because it gives you the chance to open up and feel a brand new G1 era Transformer, to be the first to Transform it, to feel the stiff joints. But I don't buy Transformers to play with them :p

On the flipside of values, the Reissues have definitely made MIB stuff come down in price so yes those items are cheaper for someone like me if I don't already have them. However this then takes the uniqueness away of the item, which has lead me down the path of Japanese exclusives.

[Slag]

I came home one day to find my collection looking like this...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/aftermath.jpg
Everything they stole was in a box -- because at the time, when I "retired" by original G1s, I put them in the reissue boxes for display, and left the reissues loose on shelves for easy play access. The thief also stole some other non vintage toys that were in box, like my Binaltech Asterisk Red Alert (*sigh*). So a word of warning to those of you who like to keep your toys in boxes -- they look more appealing to thieves.

@#$%s, Do you think they broke in with TF's as one of their targets or was it more a case of "oooh, look what this guys got, we'll grab them while we're here"??

As far as the re-issues go, I always prefer an original but i'd buy re-issues to fill the gaps. There are differences between reissues and originals (the plastic, the stickers, the stamp) and that does matter to me a bit.
In some cases you're only talking 50 or 100 dollar difference between a re-issue and original (in which case i'd buy the old guy all day), but as the $ gap gets bigger it's a bit of a tougher decision.
The things i'm chasing these days haven't been re-issued so at least that's
one less decision i have to make, f#$%&n yay.
Now it's "To get or not to get"
or "to eat this week, or not to eat this week":p

[spiderken17]

I have about 5 or so re-issues in my collection of 40ish G1's. I only have re-issues when i cannot afford orginals or i can't find any in good condition.

[Kapryiath]

most of my g1's are re-issues i'd much rather have a mint condition perfect stickered transformer, than one that has been played with etc
though i do have a few g1 toys that are leftover from my childhood most of them are minibots and a terribly well loved g1 optimus :P

[theshape]

The main thing i struggle to understand is why Reissues devalue originals so much. Its seems if you think of any other type of collectable, reissues have little impact on their price. I think TF collectors just love the toys so much and dont really care about the age/vintage/antique status . I was very surprised to see a vintage boxed megatron (6.5 grade box) - with an asking price of "at least 3 figures" . Before the reissues this would have at least been worth double that

Example

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/usercontent/images/article_images/ama12.189a.jpg

Sold for $325,000 on 9/6/11

http://www.thetoyheaven.com/images/items/comics/comicsfantasy15toy.jpg

sold for $100 ...same comic...miles apart in price.

Be interesting to see what the future holds for the whole reissue/original price gap.
I just want the reissues (and their parts) to be slightly different to the originals, so we can tell what is what without a microscope.

At the end of the day, buy what you like! Very interesting topic none the less

[Ravagecat]

Zero :o Im a hardcore vintage only collector. Part of collecting for me is the historical aspect, i love the fact that all my toys are 20-30 years old

Ditto for me!! 0% re-issues fill in my collection not even any of the classics series (gold packaging from 90's) reside here as fill ins :D. There are about 10 or so vintage TF's I don't own though (Target Masters that didnt come here and a few from the Micromaster and European AM line).
I still buy the odd re-issue/s of favorite characters though - mainly to play with :o:D

[spiderken17]

I don't mind a bit of wear on my original G1's, it gives them character. All the ones from my childhood have wear on them and my re-issues are like brand new and really stand out. Maybe i should give the re-issues to the kids to play with for a bit to "age" them up :)

[GoktimusPrime]

For me originals are about the hunt, the feel of a box and a toy that is 25 years old, it has stood the test of time. It is a modern antique. And if needed I will pay what I have to to get it.

A reissue (as we have seen here) is a great way to get back or start collecting G1 era items, and this could lead to a true G1 love. They are also good because it gives you the chance to open up and feel a brand new G1 era Transformer, to be the first to Transform it, to feel the stiff joints. But I don't buy Transformers to play with them :p
Yeah, I think opinions about reissues can be affected by what we do with our toys (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=5581). If you're more of a "curator" collector and view your toys as private museum pieces, then you'd absolutely go for originals over reissues which is really a licensed replica, but not an original. But if you're more of a "player" collector, then reissues are perfectly acceptable.

The Curator--> http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/collector%20types/collectortype_curator.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/collector%20types/collectortype_player.jpg <--The Player (that's me!)


However this then takes the uniqueness away of the item, which has lead me down the path of Japanese exclusives.
Does a Japanese exclusive hold less appeal for you if it's been reissued? (e.g. Twincast, Soundblaster, Stepper, Star Convoy, Sixtrain, Landcross etc.?) I personally think Lio Kaiser is a brilliant toy - one of the best set of G1 toys ever made anywhere. I'd love to have a set, so a reissue would be an absolute blessing for me... but I personally don't think that it would make the original any less appealing. I have an original Jalgar, if I got a reissue Jalgar it wouldn't make me feel that my original in anyway made 'inferior' by the reissue's existence (it just means that I would display my original separately in robot mode while the reissues would be combined as Lio Kaiser :D). For me, the appeal in toys like Jalgar isn't that he's a Japanese exclusive or that he's rare or anything... it's just that I think he's a really well engineered and fun toy to play with (as one of the first set of gestalts to have self-contained parts, it's a significant kilometrestone in TF toy design).


@#$%s, Do you think they broke in with TF's as one of their targets or was it more a case of "oooh, look what this guys got, we'll grab them while we're here"??
The latter. They nabbed all my DVDs, DVD player, PS2, most games, microwave oven and other completely random crap. The cops told me that it was obviously the work of a druggo who was looking for quick cash. :mad:


As far as the re-issues go, I always prefer an original but i'd buy re-issues to fill the gaps. There are differences between reissues and originals (the plastic, the stickers, the stamp) and that does matter to me a bit.
In some cases you're only talking 50 or 100 dollar difference between a re-issue and original (in which case i'd buy the old guy all day), but as the $ gap gets bigger it's a bit of a tougher decision.
Only $50-100?!? :eek: Man I wish I were rich enough to say that... a difference of $5 can be a deal breaker for me. :p I remember one time I found a United toy in Taipei, and I was thinking about getting it because it was a toy that I really had trouble finding after months of searching back home, and had become a grail... it was $8 above RRP and I was SMSing two OTCA members back home asking whether or not it was worth buying - they convinced that it was, and I did. Spending eight dollars above regular retail price is a BIG deal for me! :eek:

[theshape]

Geiger likes expensive Japanese pre transformers. That stuff doesn't come cheap! :)

[Megatron]

The main thing i struggle to understand is why Reissues devalue originals so much. Its seems if you think of any other type of collectable, reissues have little impact on their price. I think TF collectors just love the toys so much and dont really care about the age/vintage/antique status . I was very surprised to see a vintage boxed megatron (6.5 grade box) - with an asking price of "at least 3 figures" . Before the reissues this would have at least been worth double that


Was this boxed figure a sealed one? Because when it comes to originals retaining their value, there seems to be a massive price difference between the MIB item and the MISB item. Re-issues don't seem to affect the value of the latter at all (I'm talking between 3 to 4 figures here).

[Jetfire in the sky]

MMMM Pre TF stuff Droooool

Gok you have given me a good laugh, yes I am a curator collector, even as far as never having Transformed my Armada Unicron!!
And Yes Japanese exclusive re-issues have lost their appeal somewhat. But saying that an original Twincast is now more affordable :) (for now) But making sure he is original is where the risk lies.

An intersting price adjustment (similar to Shapes comic example (sort of)) has been Sixshot when his reissue came out in 2002 originals went through the floor. But now even with the latest Tak/Tom reissue all MIB Sixshots are pricey once again. Even the first commemorative series re-issues MISB are worth more than their shelf price and that's only in 10 years. So now is the time to buy MIB originals for people like me. Hooray for re-issues.

So as a curator collector I can summize that collectability is in the eye of the beholder :D

P.S. Stepper is mega -(rude word) But I'd still love an original MIB. :)

[Slag]

I don't mind a bit of wear on my original G1's, it gives them character.

+1

[Slag]

Only $50-100?!? :eek: Man I wish I were rich enough to say that... a difference of $5 can be a deal breaker for me. :p I remember one time I found a United toy in Taipei, and I was thinking about getting it because it was a toy that I really had trouble finding after months of searching back home, and had become a grail... it was $8 above RRP and I was SMSing two OTCA members back home asking whether or not it was worth buying - they convinced that it was, and I did. Spending eight dollars above regular retail price is a BIG deal for me! :eek:

I didn't really mean it to sound like that (i'm far far from rich) I was just kinda comparing autobot cars or maybe seekers (re-issues to originals) i don't think the gap is that big sometimes, but as you mentioned the new Fort Max where the difference would be $1700, that makes it tougher to justify the original.:)

[Slag]

The main thing i struggle to understand is why Reissues devalue originals so much. Its seems if you think of any other type of collectable, reissues have little impact on their price. I think TF collectors just love the toys so much and dont really care about the age/vintage/antique status . I was very surprised to see a vintage boxed megatron (6.5 grade box) - with an asking price of "at least 3 figures" . Before the reissues this would have at least been worth double that

Example

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/usercontent/images/article_images/ama12.189a.jpg

Sold for $325,000 on 9/6/11

http://www.thetoyheaven.com/images/items/comics/comicsfantasy15toy.jpg

sold for $100 ...same comic...miles apart in price.

Be interesting to see what the future holds for the whole reissue/original price gap.
I just want the reissues (and their parts) to be slightly different to the originals, so we can tell what is what without a microscope.

At the end of the day, buy what you like! Very interesting topic none the less

That's ,,, Amazing:p

[Jetfire in the sky]

........ the new Fort Max where the difference would be $1700, that makes it tougher to justify the original.:)

NEVER!!!!! :p

But what makes me happy that there is a re-issue FM, is that anyone can now buy him and ..........ahem............play with him. :confused:

[GoktimusPrime]

Gok you have given me a good laugh, yes I am a curator collector, even as far as never having Transformed my Armada Unicron!!
And Yes Japanese exclusive re-issues have lost their appeal somewhat. But saying that an original Twincast is now more affordable :) (for now) But making sure he is original is where the risk lies.
I don't have an original Twincast to make a comparison, but I just compared my G1 Blaster and TFC Broadcast -- the G1 is "Made In Japan" and the copyright stampage is on a separately cut back panel, whereas the reissue is "Made in China" and there is no cut panel; the entire back is just one big smooth piece. Also, Japanese collectable stores like Mandarake will let you know if a loose toy isn't an original anyway. I didn't see any other stores label their toys that way, but maybe ask the staff and see if they can help before purchasing.


An intersting price adjustment (similar to Shapes comic example (sort of)) has been Sixshot when his reissue came out in 2002 originals went through the floor. But now even with the latest Tak/Tom reissue all MIB Sixshots are pricey once again. Even the first commemorative series re-issues MISB are worth more than their shelf price and that's only in 10 years. So now is the time to buy MIB originals for people like me. Hooray for re-issues.
Yeah, that's the other option for people who want to sell vintage toys when a reissue comes out -- it will reduce the aftermarket value of that toy, but for a set period of time, about 10 years. After that, when the supply of reissues on the secondary market is reduced, then the aftermarket price climbs back up again. So anyone looking to sell an original Fortress Maximus should do so either now before the Encore comes out, or wait a couple of years and try again... depends on how fast the reissue sells though. With big shelf warmers like Omega Supreme, Sky Lynx, Metroplex etc. I think it's gonna take a long-o time before those originals will command the aftermarket prices that they once did. It'll be interesting to see how Fort Max sells... on one hand he'll be the single biggest and most expensive Transformer ever sold, but on the other hand, he's also extremely sought after by fans. I hope the toy will sell well though (cos then hopefully it'll encourage TakaraTOMY to reissue more big cityformers like Trypticon, Scorponok, Black Zarak etc.) :D

[Jetfire in the sky]

I hope the toy will sell well though (cos then hopefully it'll encourage TakaraTOMY to reissue more big cityformers like .................. Black Zarak etc.) :D

Oh Please, God's no!! :mad::mad::mad:

I forgot to mention the added reason your photos made me laugh so hard was because I am in the process of doing a mass dust on the collection.

Buying loose items in person is a lot safer than online, due to the fact that you can see "made in" stampings and the like. I had an MIB Twincast in my hands not long ago but decided against it due to the fact that there was a re-issue and I hadn't done my research enough. But when I go back and I see one it will be mine, oh yes. As well as Black Zarak :):p:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Hey man, it'd be heaps easy to differentiate an original and reissue Black Zarak. The one that's crumbling apart from all its gold plastic is the original! :p :p

[Jetfire in the sky]

Hey man, it'd be heaps easy to differentiate an original and reissue Black Zarak. The one that's crumbling apart from all its gold plastic is the original! :p :p

*shakes fist* There is not enough Fist Shaking that I can do at you right now. :mad::mad: Its not for playing with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad: *shakes fist*

[GoktimusPrime]

Sure it is! I guess I shouldn't tell you about the time I once let my 1 year old play with Galaxy Shuttle. It was even more fun when we chucked Lego figures into it. :D

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Transfan%20Meets/Sydney%20Meet%20September%2018%202010/zippomeet_galaxyshuttle.jpg

[Jetfire in the sky]

That is so nice and white and you put your acidic hands on it!! Yes the Lego figures are a nice touch. But come on!! Seriously ;)

We are certainly polar opposites. Go buy a reissue and play with it for crying out loud!! :):D:p

[GoktimusPrime]

That is so nice and white and you put your acidic hands on it!!
Only after my 1 year old put her even grubbier hands on it first! :p ;)



We are certainly polar opposites. Go buy a reissue and play with it for crying out loud!! :):D:p
That's pretty much what I do. :) For someone like me, a reissue makes way more sense and is much more appealing than getting an original G1. I'm not really interested in the "old vintage" collectability appeal thing, I'm just interested in playing with the damn toy! Also I'm a massive cheapskate who hates paying above RRP for toys -- I'd much rather get a reissue at RRP or less than pay some inflated aftermarket price for a G1 toy anyway.

So in this sense, we both benefit from reissues. I get to have a replica of an old G1 toy to play with, which leaves more original G1s available for curator collectors like you to collect and preserve. It would also make these toys cheaper for you too in the short run (and in the long run the toys would become rare and expensive again, which is also advantageous for you).

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/th_fortressminimus.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Wollongong%20Transfan%20Meet/th_gongmeet10.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/th_bravemaxddr.jpg

[rocman12]

100% original for me! Thankfully i got all of them before most re-issues started coming out!

[theshape]

P.S. Stepper is mega -(rude word) But I'd still love an original MIB. :)

He used to be worth $1000+ before the reissue, was able to pick one up for half that price this year

[liegeprime]

I couldn't compute exactly how much percentage but, I would say quite a lot maybe around 20% or a bit more. Since I'm not strict at all in g1 collecting be it a reissue or vintage as long as I get the character I'm content to get one figure for each character... oh wait I've got doubles vintage and a reissue, hrrrrmph, gotta count and compute this closely.... :(

[liegeprime]

Okay US G1 wise here's the reissues in my collection, which doesn't have a vintage double in my collection.


Autobots
Skids
Inferno
Grapple
Hoist
Red Alert
Hound
Jazz
Prowl
Bluestreak (Silverstreak)
Smokescreen
Sideswipe
Perceptor
Hot Rod
Omega Supreme

Decepticons

Starscream
Skywarp
Thundercracker
Dirge
Laserbeak
Ravage (only coz my original is a diaclone version not officially G1:p)
Galvatron

unfortunately I'm not familiar in identifying some of the other reissues - classic gold boxed ones so some more other figs I have may be reissues that I don't know and so the list may be a bit larger.

I guess it's quite less than 20% after all, even so:p:p:o... and the only figures I'm missing to complete my US G1 is Fort Max and Overlord. :)

[Bidoofdude]

Only after my 1 year old put her even grubbier hands on it first! :p ;)


That's pretty much what I do. :) For someone like me, a reissue makes way more sense and is much more appealing than getting an original G1. I'm not really interested in the "old vintage" collectability appeal thing, I'm just interested in playing with the damn toy! Also I'm a massive cheapskate who hates paying above RRP for toys -- I'd much rather get a reissue at RRP or less than pay some inflated aftermarket price for a G1 toy anyway.

So in this sense, we both benefit from reissues. I get to have a replica of an old G1 toy to play with, which leaves more original G1s available for curator collectors like you to collect and preserve. It would also make these toys cheaper for you too in the short run (and in the long run the toys would become rare and expensive again, which is also advantageous for you).

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/th_fortressminimus.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Wollongong%20Transfan%20Meet/th_gongmeet10.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/th_bravemaxddr.jpg

I'm like that too. I want something that can represent a character how I want and is able to be played with. I play around a lot and that's what I like with reissues, other than the packaging.
The play factor is pretty much the only reason I would ever consider a KO G1 Shockwave, since I wouldn't want to break an original.

[GoktimusPrime]

I guess it's quite less than 20% after all, even so:p:p:o... and the only figures I'm missing to complete my US G1 is Fort Max and Overlord. :)
Overlord was never released in the US, but he is part of Hasbro G1 (and the figure and character differs from the JP version). :) The Last Stand of the Wreckers made Hasbro Overlord very cool, but I'm personally not willing to splash out for it. If TakTOM reissued Takara Overlord, that would make me uber happy. :)

[kup]

Overlord was never released in the US, but he is part of Hasbro G1 (and the figure and character differs from the JP version). :) The Last Stand of the Wreckers made Hasbro Overlord very cool, but I'm personally not willing to splash out for it. If TakTOM reissued Takara Overlord, that would make me uber happy. :)

I really do wish Hasbro/Tomy would announce what molds they actually do have from the 80s but I doubt that would ever happen.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it's reasonable to assume that - after 12 years of reissues from Takara(TOMY) - the popular early G1 moulds that they haven't reissued yet have been lost or extensively damaged.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Not so damaged that certain a-holes are making fake Wheeljacks, Sunstreakers etc. But I am guessing these have been reverse moulded. Which if Hasbro wanted, they could do.

[GoktimusPrime]

Like you said, they're reverse moulded, which Takara(TOMY) don't do -- the closest they did was with reverse moulding the arms for the original G1 Optimus Prime mould, and they claim that it was really expensive for them to do this (and we can see that HasTak has milked that reissue mould more than any other to get their money's worth!). The only popular early G1 mould that Takara's admitted to having but choosing not to use was G1 Devastator - claiming that they did not want to compete with bootleggers; but they've evidently changed their stance on that (only took 'em over a decade to do so :p). But HasTak's inability or unwillingness to reissue these toys is only half the problem. Half the blame has to lie with collectors who BUY knock offs and keep pirates in business.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Like you said, they're reverse moulded, which Takara(TOMY) don't do -- the closest they did was with reverse moulding the arms for the original G1 Optimus Prime mould, and they claim that it was really expensive for them to do this.
I have to disagree with TakTom's "claim" on this, reverse molding is easy as, especially when they know the way the general molding process goes. Some finer details may be a bit more difficult, however this would take no more than a day or two once base "prototypes" have been created. I'd be interested to know where this claim has come from


But HasTak's inability or unwillingness to reissue these toys is only half the problem. Half the blame has to lie with collectors who BUY knock offs and keep pirates in business.

Totally with you there. I have often considered buying one just to tear it open and pick it apart to see all the failures myself, but I would never do it at the B.S. prices these dirty pirate SOB's are asking.

[Trent]

The only G1 originals I have a Grimlock, Seasspray and Cosmos. Everything else is reissues.

My G1 collection is really small..

[GoktimusPrime]

I have to disagree with TakTom's "claim" on this, reverse molding is easy as, especially when they know the way the general molding process goes. Some finer details may be a bit more difficult, however this would take no more than a day or two once base "prototypes" have been created. I'd be interested to know where this claim has come from
Takara stated it 12 years ago shortly after they reissued Convoy. I honestly can't remember where now, and also a lot of references were posted on Japanese TF forums which no longer exist (e.g. Naito Naonori's Transformers Net iirc).

[Ultra Mackness]

I only have the '84 and '85 list complete along with a few select characters from the '86 line (movie characters basicly) and about 30% of them are reissues. It was a higher number than I expected before I went through and counted them all up but I don't mind too much. While I wanted certain individual characters to be bona fide (e.g. Wheeljack, Sunstreaker, Starscream) others I was less concerned and only wanted a representative and a reissue would do fine (Red alert, Astrotrain) provided I had representatives of each character from the cartoons and movie up to '86.

[kup]

Like you said, they're reverse moulded, which Takara(TOMY) don't do -- the closest they did was with reverse moulding the arms for the original G1 Optimus Prime mould, and they claim that it was really expensive for them to do this (and we can see that HasTak has milked that reissue mould more than any other to get their money's worth!).

I think that is just spinning things to justify why they are not reissuing certain molds. It is clear that it is fairly easy/inexpensive to recreate and mass produce molds at an industrial scale or we wouldn't have so many knock offs that are of comparable quality to Tomy's/Hasbro's.

The 3rd parties also seem to get up and running creating their own molds reasonably easy enough.

I think that is just an 'urban myth' that Has-Tak created to justify why they don't reissue certain figures. It could be that they simply couldn't be bothered to fix/recreate molds they don't readily have.

[Jetfire in the sky]

I think that is just spinning things to justify why they are not reissuing certain molds. It is clear that it is fairly easy/inexpensive to recreate and mass produce molds at an industrial scale or we wouldn't have so many knock offs that are of comparable quality to Tomy's/Hasbro's.

The 3rd parties also seem to get up and running creating their own molds reasonably easy enough.

I think that is just an 'urban myth' that Has-Tak created to justify why they don't reissue certain figures. It could be that they simply couldn't be bothered to fix/recreate molds they don't readily have.

I guess back then they could have said that so that the bootlegggers wouldn't even bother, I think at that stage we had the KO Beachcomber getting around and perhaps Ravage and Rumble I think. All fairly basic figures when it comes to parts. I think it a serious shame that Has/Tak don't pursue these clowns, they would be making some serious coin.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think one big problem is that these counterfeits are made in China where it's difficult to pursue piracy... because anyone who's been to China will know that there are fakes of everything everywhere -- it's actually harder to find legit TFs in China than it is to find KOs! :( :mad: :(

[Paulbot]

My G1 collection contains only a few reissues: Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, Inferno, the Aerialbots, and Sandstorm

I have a bunch of Encore toys and the Commemorative series figures and the like, but I don't think of them as part of G1 collection. I think of them as part of my Encore collection. Or my Commemorative series collection etc.

I only think of the gold-boxed classic reissues as part of my G1 collection because they came out during G1, but I still think of them as "reissues" and even in my G1 collection I have always listed them separately to my Prowl, Ratchet, Protectobots or Astrotrain that I got in the early 80s.

A reissue isn't the same as having an original, but I'm happy enough to be still be able to get versions of the older figures that are brand new and cheap(ish) as part of my Encore collection.

[Bidoofdude]

My G1 collection contains only a few reissues: Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, Inferno, the Aerialbots, and Sandstorm

I have a bunch of Encore toys and the Commemorative series figures and the like, but I don't think of them as part of G1 collection. I think of them as part of my Encore collection. Or my Commemorative series collection etc.

I only think of the gold-boxed classic reissues as part of my G1 collection because they came out during G1, but I still think of them as "reissues" and even in my G1 collection I have always listed them separately to my Prowl, Ratchet, Protectobots or Astrotrain that I got in the early 80s.

A reissue isn't the same as having an original, but I'm happy enough to be still be able to get versions of the older figures that are brand new and cheap(ish) as part of my Encore collection.

You're the man I hope to be.

[Jetfire in the sky]

I only think of the gold-boxed classic reissues as part of my G1 collection because they came out during G1, but I still think of them as "reissues" and even in my G1 collection I have always listed them separately to my Prowl, Ratchet, Protectobots or Astrotrain that I got in the early 80s.

A reissue isn't the same as having an original, but I'm happy enough to be still be able to get versions of the older figures that are brand new and cheap(ish) as part of my Encore collection.

I have to say that I have done this with the Gold Box Classics Reissues, if I have been able to pick up a figure I don't have then I would get the Goldie, but once I get the original it's gone. :)

[theshape]

I grew up with gold boxes, they are vintage so I count them as g1 in my collection. They are still hard to find (as hard as original g1s) .

[GoktimusPrime]

They are technically reissues, and for the purposes of this thread's poll we're including them as such. :)

[kup]

They are technically reissues, and for the purposes of this thread's poll we're including them as such. :)

What if you bought your G1s loose? I am pretty sure a couple of my loose G1s could potentially be Gold box reissues.

[theshape]

They are still vintage items. They were not made for collectors for nostalgia purposes. Technically, arent rub sign series 1 TFs reissues as they were re released in 85 with rub signs?

[gamblor916]

It's also hard to tell apart pre-tf Diaclone and Microman etc releases from G1s. They're the first releases so technically everything following are reissues.

[GoktimusPrime]

They are still vintage items. They were not made for collectors for nostalgia purposes.
Sure, but they're vintage reissues. :) After all, the first Takara reissues are 12 years old now... pretty soon they might be considered vintage too. They weren't made for nostalgia purposes I think - after all, it'd only been 6 years since Transformers started when they came out. I was in school at the time - and I'd imagine most children of the 80s would just similarly be older kids, but still kids. It's not like with Takara(TOMY) reissues where they're explicitly targetted adults with more disposable income (which is also why they've marketed it at Ages 15+ and can ignore current child safety laws with stuff like the missiles/launchers). The gold packaging was simply the standard packaging style of the time (with pretty chumpy artwork on the back!) -- compare this with reissues in the last 12 years which have either been packaged in G1 style boxes, or collector-style book-boxes for more elaborate in-box display.

Sure, the Classic reissues are 21-22 years old now, so I can see how they'd be considered vintage and seen with nostalgia... but they are still reissues. :)


Technically, arent rub sign series 1 TFs reissues as they were re released in 85 with rub signs?
I can see how that would make sense, but I think the general consensus would be that post-rub sign G1 Transformers are variants rather than "reissues." It's rather subjective, so I wouldn't disagree, but just for the purposes of this thread's poll we'll go with what the wider collector community considers as (see here (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Reissue)). :)


It's also hard to tell apart pre-tf Diaclone and Microman etc releases from G1s. They're the first releases so technically everything following are reissues.
The toys are reused for a different franchise. Saying that G1 1984 Optimus Prime is a reissue of Diaclone Battle Convoy would be akin to saying that G1 Jetfire is a reissue of Macross Super Valkyrie VF-1S. I know what you mean about them being difficult to discern loose - but technically speaking I don't think Transformers are really "reissues" of pre-TF toys... at least, no more than say Brave of Legend Da Gam Red Geist is a "reissue" of G1 Deathzaras. Or let me put it another way, would you consider eHobby Road Rage to be a reissue of G1 1985 Tracks, or "Protect Ironhide" to be a reissue of Diaclone Ironhide? I dunno... maybe this is also all really subjective too. But for the sake of consistency, for this thread's poll we'll just stick with what TFwiki lists as "reissues." :)


What if you bought your G1s loose? I am pretty sure a couple of my loose G1s could potentially be Gold box reissues.
The copyright stampage is different or entirely absent, and/or lack of rub sign and rub sign indents (on some of the smaller carded toys). For example, my Classic Sideswipe has a different copyright stamp from an original G1 Sideswipe, and my Classic Prowl has a blank square on the bottom of his foot where the original would have the copyright stamp. My Classic Rollbar has different window stickers, no rub sign indent and the rub sign has been replaced with a regular Autobot logo sticker.

[Slag]

HasTak's inability or unwillingness to reissue these toys is only half the problem. Half the blame has to lie with collectors who BUY knock offs and keep pirates in business.

True but, in the case of Sunstreaker, Mirage and WJ, a lot of the time the KO is an option (unless you're happy paying the ,over the top, secondhand prices and if you can even find one) If HasTak could re-issue them at a price of say $80-$90 each, i think people would go for it (the ko's are around $60 from a quick look). I'd rather pay 50% more and get a licensed/better quality product. Or if HasTak could produce them for $60, who would even bother looking at the KO anymore.

Have a crack HasTak!

[Bidoofdude]

True but, in the case of Sunstreaker, Mirage and WJ, a lot of the time the KO is an option (unless you're happy paying the ,over the top, secondhand prices and if you can even find one) If HasTak could re-issue them at a price of say $80-$90 each, i think people would go for it (the ko's are around $60 from a quick look). I'd rather pay 50% more and get a licensed/better quality product. Or if HasTak could produce them for $60, who would even bother looking at the KO anymore.

Have a crack HasTak!

This is the reason I am considering a KO Shockwave. I want something I can play with well, but not have to pay over the top prices just to shoot a laser gun.
I would happily pay loads more for a legit reissue (they can't do it now though) if they were made, but Hastak (mostly Has) are making KOs O the more tempting, for those who can't get a toy in the form of a reissue and not pay ridiculous prices.

[VERT]

I got the ko Springer. Next to my Hasbro one its the better of the two. Even has the die cast. Hasbro version was all plastic. So I sold the Hasbro one. When it comes to takara reissues in 20 years no one will care I bet.

[GoktimusPrime]

True but, in the case of Sunstreaker, Mirage and WJ, a lot of the time the KO is an option (unless you're happy paying the ,over the top, secondhand prices and if you can even find one)
A morally dubious option. I'd rather NOT own a toy than purchase a damn fake.


If HasTak could re-issue them at a price of say $80-$90 each, i think people would go for it (the ko's are around $60 from a quick look). I'd rather pay 50% more and get a licensed/better quality product. Or if HasTak could produce them for $60, who would even bother looking at the KO anymore.

Have a crack HasTak!
Fair enough, but consider this -- TakaraTOMY refused to reissue Devastator for over a decade because they didn't want to compete with pirates in an unlevel playing field. If people want these toys reissued, I think the best steps would be:

+ Don't buy KOs, because a thriving KO industry sends a message to Takara that they have a viable competitor that they can't fairly compete against.
+ Use their online survey to let them know which toy/characters you want them to reissue.

Now previous to the TOMY merger, Takara included a self-addressed survey card with all their toys, where you could nominate up to 3 characters that you wanted them to reissue. And most of the characters that my friends and I nominated have been reissued. One problem when they changed to the online survey is that they removed the option of nominating characters that you wanted to see, and Encore seemed to be mostly reissues of reissues. But I haven't tried to do an online survey for a reissue in ages - and I've noticed that their online Masterpiece survey now allows for votes/nominations again, so maybe they've restored this option for the reissue survey. I might try this out later - but if anyone can try it sooner, than please feel free.


This is the reason I am considering a KO Shockwave. I want something I can play with well, but not have to pay over the top prices just to shoot a laser gun.
I would happily pay loads more for a legit reissue (they can't do it now though) if they were made, but Hastak (mostly Has) are making KOs O the more tempting, for those who can't get a toy in the form of a reissue and not pay ridiculous prices.
I currently hold loads more respect for you as a collector in abstaining from getting a KO Shockwave over say someone who's purchased a KO Shockwave in place of G1 Shockwave. Even without a Shockwave, at least you can look at your collection and take pride in the fact that it's all genuine.

Some G1 collectors see themselves as "curators", right? Well imagine going to a museum where you saw an artwork that wasn't an original or an authorised reproduction, but a forgery. Imagine another museum that didn't boast as many pieces of art, but everything they had was an original or authorised reproduction - all legit. Which museum curator would command greater respect? :) The Powerhouse Museum in Sydney had an 80s Are Back exhibit, and part of that was Mint In Sealed Box original G1 Optimus Prime - the box was flawless. At first I thought it had to be a fake, but upon closer inspection, it was totally legit! Powerhouse Museum would've paid a lot of money to acquire a MISB 1984 Optimus Prime in such perfect condition -- but they obviously did it to maintain their standards as a museum. :cool:

[Ploughmans Lunch]

Some G1 collectors see themselves as "curators", right? Well imagine going to a museum where you saw an artwork that wasn't an original or an authorised reproduction, but a forgery. Imagine another museum that didn't boast as many pieces of art, but everything they had was an original or authorised reproduction - all legit. Which museum curator would command greater respect? :)

Depends if it was contemporary pop art, or in what context it was being presented in, but I guess now isn't the time for Ploughman's Art Theory Lunch!

What about G1s with reprolabel stickers? Would that play any part? Curious.

[Jetfire in the sky]

What about G1s with reprolabel stickers? Would that play any part? Curious.

Should be no surprise here considering my previous comments. I don't believe in them but I can see why they have their place. Antiques can be restored to their former glory and still command a lot of respect.

[GoktimusPrime]

What about G1s with reprolabel stickers? Would that play any part? Curious.
Well they are forged stickers, but then again HasTak have never ever reissued sticker sheets on their own... and it's probably not even remotely commercially viable for them to do so. Having said that, I've personally only ever purchased reprolabels once. Now you have to have Paypal (which I don't)


Should be no surprise here considering my previous comments. I don't believe in them but I can see why they have their place. Antiques can be restored to their former glory and still command a lot of respect.
An excellent point. :) The same goes with historical buildings/sites - like when you go to Japan and visit temples, castles etc., it's hard to believe that many of them were obliterated by Allied bombing during WWII. And the Japanese take great pride in continuing to maintain their heritage sites. When I last visited Kiyomizudera, a large part of the top section was closed off for reconstruction.

But yeah, reprolabels is a tricky one, because on one hand you could argue that they're a useful tool for restoring vintage toys, but on their other hand, you are doing so with forged stickers. Anyway, that's going far beyond the confines of this thread and it's poll... let's just stick with the action figures here. :D

[Skullcruncher]

WTF I should be in the 5% or less group but I clicked 100%. Dumbass. :o

[Bidoofdude]

I respect your comment and do not wish to be a known as someone who appreciates KOs, as I despise them. I more like the idea of keeping a legit loose Shockwave on display, but maybe buy a KO (as a last resort) to play with, as I would not like to wreck the first.
I still look every day for a G1 Shockwave on eBay and I think I'll get there someday.
I would much more like to have a legit Shockwave than a KO, since it really gets a lot more sentimental value. I understand your point of view, which I also stand with.
I really don't want to get a KO, but understand the situation of those who do, who aren't able to get a legit one.
Is it possible that I could get someone to restore a legit G1 Shockwave if I got the chance?

[GoktimusPrime]

I more like the idea of keeping a legit loose Shockwave on display, but maybe buy a KO (as a last resort) to play with, as I would not like to wreck the first.
Meh, I play w/ my G1 Shockwave, and it's the only one I got. :)

Another alternative is to nominate Shockwave as a character for a future Classicsverse toy -- again, if TakaraTOMY's online survey for United figures allows it. I haven't tried. A Classicsverse Shockwave would have to look distinctly different from G1, but they could make it a close approximation. I'd personally like to see him based on a different kind of Nerf gun, because that would fit in well with Classicsverse Megatron who's a Nerf N-Strike Maverick. :D I don't know much about Nerf guns, but can anyone here think of a particular Nerf gun that you think might be suitable as Shockwave?


Is it possible that I could get someone to restore a legit G1 Shockwave if I got the chance?
You could always make a thread on the toy restoration/repair section if it doesn't already exist. :) kup is the mastah of toy restoration!

[theshape]

Regarding the museum discussion, I unfortunately see reissues as the$ 9.95 laminated poster you bring back of your favourite art piece.

[Bidoofdude]

I would play with an original, but that damn thing is so breakable!
I think Shockwave would work as more of a Nerf Vortex Proton, although maybe size would need some alteration.
I am really trying hard to find an actual G1 Shockwave. It's so accurate and so awesome, especially since it works!!!!!
BTW, I can tell that you like surveys.

[Skullcruncher]

Regarding the museum discussion, I unfortunately see reissues as the$ 9.95 laminated poster you bring back of your favourite art piece.

I was thinking reissues are more like what you get at the museum store.

[Bidoofdude]

I for one, am extremely jealous of Doubledealer's boxed Shockwave, Gok. (I do my research)

[Jetfire in the sky]

Shape and Skullcruncher we should form a gang ;)

Bidoo, just keep your eye out mate and you will find one within your price range. I sold a complete and working original Shockwave for around $80 from memory about five months ago.

[GoktimusPrime]

Wow, that's actually not a bad price (even by my tight-bum standards)! I got my Shockwave (complete w/ tech specs) nearly 10 years ago in a private sale for the same price. :)

[theshape]

I paid 200 for my MIB one in 2007

[5FDP]

This is the reason I am considering a KO Shockwave. I want something I can play with well, but not have to pay over the top prices just to shoot a laser gun.
I would happily pay loads more for a legit reissue (they can't do it now though) if they were made, but Hastak (mostly Has) are making KOs O the more tempting, for those who can't get a toy in the form of a reissue and not pay ridiculous prices.

I see no problem in purchasing the KO as long as you don't pass it off as legit; I did and it's great. Until there is an official reissue, which there probably never will be, it's an acceptable substitute. To put it in realistic terms, the KO is an near-exact replica of the original toy that was made nearly 30 years ago. Until Hasbro lay claim to the toy design and come out with their own reissue, I say 'get over it people'. That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Bidoofdude]

I sort of get what you mean.
I'm not saying: "HEY! Look at my G1 Shockwave!"
I just want something for me to play with and appreciate.

[Slag]

Don't buy KOs, I don't.. (i own 6 in total, 2 via deceit/stupidity(seller's and buyer's(AKA Me)) 1 was gifted and 3 (2xBB and 1KO mechabot colour variant)just because, but not anymore))


, I say 'get over it people'. I am:p


I sort of get what you mean.
I'm not saying: "HEY! Look at my G1 Shockwave!"
I just want something for me to play with and appreciate.
I'm not familiar with KO Shockwave but ,from experience, KO's are poorer quality (good from far, but far from good) If you want a Shockwave to appreciate, you have to go for a real one IMO
If you want one to drive into the ground, then maybe..

[Skullcruncher]

I'm not familiar with KO Shockwave but ,from experience, KO's are poorer quality (good from far, but far from good) If you want a Shockwave to appreciate, you have to go for a real one IMO
If you want one to drive into the ground, then maybe..

I've fondled a KO Shockwave and the quality is sadly quite good, so very close to an exact replica but the angles on the leg molds are off. I did create a photo comparison but now I can't for the life of me find it.:(

[GoktimusPrime]

Let's continue further discussions of KO Shockwave in the KO Shockwave thread (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8814). Cheers. :)

[Bidoofdude]

Sorry Gok if you were not happy about mentioning you. :) Hope there's nothing hard felt. :o

[Bidoofdude]

I'd best start saving...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/G1-TRANSFORMER-1985-SHOCKWAVE-AFA-80-NM-Archival-Vintage-Generation-One-/200785349121?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item2ebfbd4a01&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_800







What? I'm picky.

[Slag]

I'd best start saving...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/G1-TRANSFORMER-1985-SHOCKWAVE-AFA-80-NM-Archival-Vintage-Generation-One-/200785349121?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item2ebfbd4a01&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_800







What? I'm picky.

It does look very nice, but you should be able to get one with a better box for less then that.

[Bidoofdude]

Any suggested places?









Not evil bay and idiotoffer please.

[kup]

Any suggested places?









Not evil bay and idiotoffer please.

I have gotten some good deals from Transformerland.com

They seem to have several shockwaves in varying condition (most of them decent though) from $124. There are cheaper Shockwaves too but those have serious defects.

Just remember to read the descriptions as they use stock photos.

[GoktimusPrime]

+ Use their online survey to let them know which toy/characters you want them to reissue.

Now previous to the TOMY merger, Takara included a self-addressed survey card with all their toys, where you could nominate up to 3 characters that you wanted them to reissue. And most of the characters that my friends and I nominated have been reissued. One problem when they changed to the online survey is that they removed the option of nominating characters that you wanted to see, and Encore seemed to be mostly reissues of reissues. But I haven't tried to do an online survey for a reissue in ages - and I've noticed that their online Masterpiece survey now allows for votes/nominations again, so maybe they've restored this option for the reissue survey. I might try this out later - but if anyone can try it sooner, than please feel free.
So I just did the online survey for one of my reissues, and unfortunately they haven't changed it -- so still no option for nominating/voting for which characters you want to see in future reissues. :( (which is why I just don't bother with doing the survey for reissues anymore, unless there's some issue with the QC or something I think TakaraTOMY needs to know).

[Bidoofdude]

Does the survey apply to Encore reissues? Where can I find it, as well. Thanks, Gok.:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Does the survey apply to Encore reissues?
Yes. See here (tfwiki.net/wiki/Reissue).


Where can I find it, as well.
Find what?? :confused: Encores? They're just regular store released toys you can get from any retail shop in Japan or from online Japanese retailers like HLJ, Amiami etc., and online retailers usually offer pre-orders that (I currently have Encore Fortress Maximus on pre-order). Some of the larger Encores have been shelfwarming (e.g. Sky Lynx, Metroplex, Omega Supreme), so they can still be found in some stores in Japan.

[Bidoofdude]

I meant the survey, but you have supplied the link. Thank you.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Have been thinking about my views on reissues and I have now changed my mind, thanks to what people have said here and the fact I'm pretty open minded and welcome people's different opinions if they have a general logical flow :) I think reissues are an integral part of the modern G1 experience and its great that it brings in new collectors and allows our kids to play with a genuine new G1 Transformer :):)
As for G1 ko copies well:mad::mad::mad: