G1 Animal sidekicks - Sentient, Semi-Sentient or Drones?

[BigTransformerTrev]

(Note: I know there are tons more animal characters in the Japanese G1 Continuity but as I am not familiar enough with it, am simply discussing the American one. I'm sure someone else can add them to this thread :) )


Do people consider the G1 Transformers that only have animal modes to be fully fledged Transformers in their own right? Interested in others opinions. I've offered up three different classifications of how they could possibly be viewed:


Fully Sentient
As psychologically developed and aware as any other Transformer

Semi-Sentient
Comparable to a regular Transformer as a dog is to a human

Drone
No real cognitive thought. Under complete control of their handler.


Autobots
Steeljaw
Ramhorn
Lionizer
Sights
Top-Heavy
Tyrannitron

Decepticons
Lazerbeak
Buzzsaw
Ravage
Ratbat
Overkill
Slugfest
Beastbox
Squalktalk
Wingthing
Gatoraider
Catgut
Scorpulator
Razor-Sharp
Firebeast
Needler
Screech


For me, unless it specifically states otherwise, I like to think they are all pretty much fully sentient. Of course some are smarter or dumber than others. Also some talk and some don't. But there seems to be contradictory evidence on many levels:

Ravage:
Got a line in the original cartoon, making you think fully sentient. And talks in the IDW universe. But then also in the cartoon for the most part he just growled, Soundwave once patted him like a favored dog, and for the most part other Decepticons addressed Soundwave rather than him when wishing something of Ravage.

Laserbeak:
Never talked in the cartoon or in recent comics, but gets chatty in the Japanese cartoon. In FoC treated by Soundwave and Megatron more as a hunting condor than as a member of the army. (Megatron petting Laserbeak and laughing when nearly losing a finger was hilarious!)

Squalktalk & Beastbox:
Seen crop up in IDW a couple of times, but only combined. Does that mean they are not as fully sentient separated? But then Squalktalk's tech-specs bio discusses how he knows 6500 languages and talks all the time, more in the form of a human than a parrot.

Ramhorn:
Grunts constantly like an animal, then suddenly goes back in time and becomes chatty?! Simple beast or fully functioning bot?

Tyrannitron:
In the FP comics is talked about more like he is Snarl's pet that needs to be babysat rather than a member of the crew.

Animal Targetmaster Partners:
Many got their own sub-bio's in Dreamwave's MTMTE, making them sound fully sentient, but in the original tech specs hardly referred to more than a pet or a drone would be.


So what do people think. Can they all be classed as either fully-sentient, semi-sentient or drone? Or does it depend on the bot - is Ravage for example more sentient than Buzzsaw? Is Steeljaw more sentient than Lionizer? If so - why? They both turn into Cybertronian Lions after all. Yes - Steeljaw gets his own tech-spec and Lionizer doesn't. But then Lionizer turns into a Atom Smashing Blaster, a lot more intricate one could argue than a cassette (or data disk).

So, what do you think?

[Paulbot]

This is one of those things where it can depend on which continuity you're looking at (and sometimes which issue or episode).

As an overall viewpoint, mine is:

Cassettes - fully sentient Transformers that have animal-like robot modes (except in the G1 cartoon where they are semi-sentient transforming animals* - and in stories highly influenced by the G1 cartoon like Dreamwave's and All Hail Megatron)

Action Master partners - not enough in-use story of these but I've always tended to think of them as basically purpose-built drones with some level of artifical intelligence but not living beings. Not quite a drone but almost. (And I include things like Jazz's roller board and Bumblebee's helipack in the same category)


* I've always considered Ravage's one line to more likely be some sort of text-to-voice translation of geo-location data that Ravage's sensors recorded but wasn't audio. I recall an episode of Ramhorn going back in time, but I don't recall him chatting, but really I just generally don't feel any need to remember that episode.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ravage, Laser and Buzzsaw had more dialogue in the G1 comics - especially Ravage. It was Ravage who talked Shockwave out of his stupor after he had a mental shutdown because his mind couldn't process the wibbly wobbly timey whimey paradox of Cyclonus being in the past before he was created in the future. Ravage also had that cool Russian accent in Beast Wars. ;) I'd say all the cassette TFs are fully sentient - as you said, their tech specs (which forms the toy continuity which is the core continuity of G1) suggests that they are sentient, even if other continuities may not portray them that way - like Raindance and Grand Slam... in the G1 comics they were shown to be nothing more than data storage devices, although they were explicitly referred to by their names and as "Autobots." Which leads me to another question - do you consider vehicular sidekicks to be sentient? Then there's Ratbat, who was Decepticon leader for a time in the G1 comics, and portrayed as a Senator in the IDW comics.

Having said that, I personally don't consider the Cassettes to be proper 'sidekicks'. They're fully independent and proper TFs in their own right who happen to be able to interact with Soundwave and Blaster. Action Master Partners on the other hand are very much sidekicks, much like say Nebulans. Are they sentient? Not sure as they barely made any canonical appearances. And why should the animal Action Master partners be more sentient than the vehicular ones? After all, Raindance and Grand Slam's tech specs suggest that they are sentient Autobots.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Which leads me to another question - do you consider vehicular sidekicks to be sentient?

And why should the animal Action Master partners be more sentient than the vehicular ones? After all, Raindance and Grand Slam's tech specs suggest that they are sentient Autobots.

Well, this is really more about the Animals than vehicles - maybe you could start another thread about vehicular ones (the opposite to the 'what alt-modes haven't been done yet you'd like to see threads we did ;)). But I'll address it as best I can.

The likes of Jazz's turbo-board and Bumblebee's helipack really serve no purpose other than to facilitate the transport of the user and to double as a weapon. If you move to the next stage up you could same the same for Gutcrunchers tank. The likes of Lionizer can prowl around, drink a saucer of energon, play fetch, bite Cons etc. For me the question is more is he A:remote controlled, B: just growl and prowl or C: Able to read from the Covenant of Primus and discuss mecha-soccer if required.

Raindance and Grand Slam can travel about of their own accord and get their own tech-specs so definitely fully sentient. They just need to combine if they want to open a door or wave hello :D

Maybe of interest would be some of the TF Wiki links - I'll put one up about Lionizer since I keep using him as an example:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Lionizer

I also quite like to go by the Dreamwave MTMTE books, simply as it was the first time so many of these obscure characters got any fleshing out.

[Paulbot]

I also quite like to go by the Dreamwave MTMTE books, simply as it was the first time so many of these obscure characters got any fleshing out.

And those books are great for that, but a bunch of high level character profiles are too specific to the defunct Dreamwave continuity too and contradict the others, because there are few universal truths when it comes to G1 Transformers. G1 canon is it's own special thing like the mystery of the holy trinity.


Ravage, Laser and Buzzsaw had more dialogue in the G1 comics - especially Ravage. It was Ravage who talked Shockwave out of his stupor ...

You mean in the G1 UK comics. And weirdly also Marvel's GIJoe vs Transformers where Ravage shouldn't have been present at all... Most of the tapes forgot they could talk in the US comic after the original miniseries. Even when Ravage returned and was written by Simon Furman in the US comics he didn't chat. (Maybe he just didn't have anything to say?)

I reference Jazz and Bumblebee as those are two AMs I had a kid when these ideas formed. And taking Goktimus' point, the tech specs are all we had to go on. Jazz's bio calls "Tubro Board" "his partner" and "sidekick" so I assume that as a minimum Turbo Board has some artificial intelligence if you're calling it as more than "his vehicle" and "ride". Not sure what Gutcruncher's tech specs say about his tank. But I would never consider those partners to be "Transformers".

And so when it comes to ones who had animal like partners, like I had Jackpot and Sights, I never considered them as being a "Transformer" in the same way that say Laserbeak was. I think Sights could prowl and growl but it's got no spark or higher intelligence.

[BigTransformerTrev]

And those books are great for that, but a bunch of high level character profiles are too specific to the defunct Dreamwave continuity too and contradict the others

Jazz's bio calls "Tubro Board" "his partner" and "sidekick" so I assume that as a minimum Turbo Board has some artificial intelligence if you're calling it as more than "his vehicle" and "ride".




In total agreement about the high level character profiles from Dreamwave - it's certainly not taken as a universal truth that Shockwave gave Blitzwing his triple-changing abilities and that Punch has a personality disorder. But for the likes of the Micromasters, Target/Action Master Partners and so on I thought it was fantastic as they had never really had their own full characters before (though some MM kinda did in the old comics).

Had no idea Jass's turbo-board was referred to as his partner and sidekick in the original tech-specs. Hmmmm, that makes for quite the compelling argument for the likes of Sights to only be on the same level. Don't get me wrong, I still think Lionizer, Gatoraider etc are above them and should be pets at the very least, but now you've got me considering the validity of that position ;) :)

[GoktimusPrime]

To me, cassettes are sentient. I see no reason to discern those with bestial robot modes (e.g. Ravage, Ramhorn etc.) over those with vehicular robot modes (e.g. Grand Slam, Raindance) or humanoid robot modes (e.g. Rewind, Frenzy etc.). A vehicle can still be sentient, such as Tardises (especially Type 102 Tardises). ;)

I see Action Master partners as being non-sentient, and capable of possessing varying degrees of artificial intelligence, like say Artoo Detoo from Star Wars, K.I.T.T. from Knight Rider, Jarvis from the Iron Man films or David from A.I.

"Nobody cares if you upset a droid." - See Threepio (Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope)

[BigTransformerTrev]

To me, cassettes are sentient.

I see Action Master partners as being non-sentient, and capable of possessing varying degrees of artificial intelligence, like say Artoo Detoo from Star Wars, K.I.T.T. from Knight Rider, Jarvis from the Iron Man films or David from A.I.



I think probably everyone is in agreement on the cassette thing, though it can depend on the continuity. The way Megatron treated Laserbeak in FoC was definetly as a pet rather than as a robot (I can't see him patting say Thrust and then laughing when Thrust tries to bite his finger any time soon - unless someone out there is writing a very homo-erotic fanfic :eek:) But yeah, I would certainly consider every cassette animal to be sentient on the whole.



Interesting point about AM partners having varying degrees of artificial intelligence. Given Paulbot's point about in the original tech-specs, Sights and Jazz's turbo-board both being referred to as partners and sidekicks, it's certainly possible. A mate made an interesting point on my FB Transformatorium page - I'll quote him here:

There has been no real fiction addressing them so I take it that they are Cybertronian 'pets'. It is already established that there is Cybertronian wildlife around so that's an explanation. They are different to Ravage, Sky Lynx, etc because they are actually sentient with animalistic characteristics while the AM sidekicks are not. So yeah, AM partners are alive with a spark but not really sentient.

I quite like this explanation, of them being almost 'domesticated wild Cybertronian animals'. And it kinds works - the Decepticons using nasty animals like scorpions and alligators, and the Autobots using creatures like eagles and lions - animals associated with nobility.



I suppose it is all up for debate (hence why I started this thread :)). Chances are the bloke who wrote the tech-specs was doing it in his coffee break and gave no real long term thought to it, I'm sure he/she did not expect it to be debated over two decades later :p Personally, I think in regards to the AM animal sidekicks I'm going to (for now) stick with my original idea that yes they are as sentient as the next bot. And though Dreamwave and TFwiki are certainly not TF gospel, right now they appear to be the most fleshed out descriptions of these characters, far more than the original tech specs (remember, in them Skywarp was rated higher in rank than Starscream and no-one takes that as gospel;)) and on the whole treat them like any other Transformer.

Until the animal AM partners are used far more in fiction I guess we will not be sure. Question - have any of them EVER been used in a comic book outside DW's MTMTE? The only ones I can think of are Push-Button serving drinks in DW (and we are not discussing him since he is not an animal anyway) and Wingthing turning up in a group shot, although he just got a new toy (recolured Ratbat) which is quite cool and maybe lends credence to the 'all are equal' idea.

Oh, and I always thought 'Scorponok' from the movies should have been called 'Scorpulator' - much more fitting as a partner to a bigger bot. :D

[GoktimusPrime]

I can't think of them ever having any canonical appearances other than in tech specs and profiles.

One issue with the domesticated wildlife theory -- according to the Action Masters' original lore, after discovering that Nucleon stripped them of their ability to transform, the Action Masters modified/developed their weapons and vehicles as transformable partners. There's really isn't any evidence to suggest that the animal AM partners were some form of domesticated Turbofox. :/ Also the TV commercial refers to some of the partners as "battle droids," which to me suggests A.I. over actual sentience.

At any rate, TFwiki (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Action_Master_partner) states, "They display personalities of their own and are sometimes very highly skilled. However, their origin is largely unknown, as is their exact level of sentience."
So yeah... there just doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.


The only ones I can think of are Push-Button serving drinks in DW (and we are not discussing him since he is not an animal anyway) and Wingthing turning up in a group shot, although he just got a new toy (recolured Ratbat) which is quite cool and maybe lends credence to the 'all are equal' idea.
Artoo Detoo served drinks aboard Jabba's barge in Return of the Jedi -- but he's still a non-sentient artificially intelligent droid. As for Wingthing, simply having an 'autonomous' Transformer body doesn't necessarily make that Transformer sentient per se, because we have had some Transformers similar to this who have been explicitly stated to be artificially intelligent non-sentients; e.g. Godbomber (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Godbomber) and Zoom-Zoom (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Zoom-Zoom).

[BigTransformerTrev]

according to the Action Masters' original lore, after discovering that Nucleon stripped them of their ability to transform, the Action Masters modified/developed their weapons and vehicles as transformable partners.

At any rate, TFwiki (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Action_Master_partner) states, "They display personalities of their own and are sometimes very highly skilled. However, their origin is largely unknown, as is their exact level of sentience."
So yeah... there just doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.



Yeah, no definitive answer, though the arguments you and Paulbot have made have certainly made me less certain of my assertion that they are like any other bot. I do remember that bit from Action Masters original lore now that you have mentioned it and it supports your argument well.



Another friend on my FB Transformatorium page left this about the AM animal partners:

Depending on your definition of sentience, it can commonly be agreed that is the ability to think subjectively. Therefore, as the beings in question could have served their "masters" because they chose to and not because of training (in particular learned helplessness) this would be a subjective thought. Something like the view of the individual where I only obey because I am told to, or I only associate with so-and-so for shelter/food would be more objective. Hence the individual would be prone to move on as soon as a better opportunity arises (yes, I know a lot of "sentient" humans exhibit these behaviours). But as they showed loyalty to the detriment of their own well-being demonstrates sentience...or complete insanity. But what's the difference I suppose. But yeah in a nut-shell, definitely as sentient as any other being that claims to be.

Which is kinda cool and takes the psychology of the whole thing into account and is a strong argument for them being fully actualized characters in their own right. And while it may enforce the 'they are fully sentient, not domesticated pets' argument (otherwise Gatoraider would go work for Rad instead if Rad offered him more energon goodies than Krok), it does unintentionally perhaps suggest that maybe they are loyal to their own detriment, not because of a fully developed personality, but because that is their programming, although that concept relies on a very high level of AI (which undoubtedly Cybertronian science is capable of).



On a purely whimsical level and taking a break from the logical arguments, I'd like to see them show up in the IDW comics - think it would be great to see Jackpot wandering round with Sights on his shoulder like some eccentric, and Krok's gang all sitting round chatting and throwing the odd tid-bit to Gatoraider. Kinda like Tyrannitron was portrayed (off panel) in the FP comic - I thought that was suitably humorous :D While I think they are fully sentient, and Gok thinks they just have AI, I think the most fun thing would be if they were pets ;)

[Bidoofdude]

With the cassette bots in the G1 cartoon, although they were pets and were sometimes used as a utility, rather than a sentient being, they still seemed to show some form of sentient behaviour, whether it be conversing with their master or other bots. Rumble and Frenzy were very much like this.;)

Even most of the animal cassettes showed some form of being a sentient being, such as using their own tactics (though questionably, this could be in their programming;)) and communicating with other cassette bots/cons. (particularly in the case of the Autobot cassettes)

In the Headmasters as well, both the Bots' and Cons' respective cassettes showed remorse for the loss of their master and joy upon their return/resurrection.

This also brings forth the notion that when Blaster and Soundwave were both (brutally:D) killed in The Headmasters series, their cassette minions stayed living, which contradicts other forms of drones, such as the drone for the Scientist class in FOC, which explodes upon death of the player in multiplayer. (this could be argued against, as it is a game and seperate continuities also affect the laws and physics in that particular universe:o:p.)

So, in my own opinion at least, the G1 cassettes pretty much had their own sentimentality and just happened to side themself with their master and take the form of a cassette that takes residence inside of them.:D;)

Action Masters are kind of iffy, but I honestly treat them as semi-sentient or as drones.)

[GoktimusPrime]

Ravage did speak in the G1 cartoon, although he could only do it in cassette mode and had to speak through Soundwave.

BigAngryTrev: just out of curiosity, how do you feel about other bestial partners or components for Transformers? Would you consider them to possess some level of sentience or simply as non-sentient artificially intelligent drones? Even if some of them are explicitly marketed as "drones," remember that the word 'drone' applies in nature to things like some male insects that were born from unfertilised eggs (e.g. bees, ants, wasps etc.) -- although insects aren't sentient (http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3366.page). :p
So things like:
* Power Core Combiner Dinobots
* Depth Charge's shark
* BW Scorponok's Cyber-Bee
* BW Sandstorm's Cyber-Bee
* Polar Claw's bat
* Grizzly-1/Barbearian's bat
* TF Prime Laserbeak
etc.

[BigTransformerTrev]

BigAngryTrev: just out of curiosity, how do you feel about other bestial partners or components for Transformers? Would you consider them to possess some level of sentience or simply as non-sentient artificially intelligent drones? Even if some of them are explicitly marketed as "drones," remember that the word 'drone' applies in nature to things like some male insects that were born from unfertilised eggs (e.g. bees, ants, wasps etc.) -- although insects aren't sentient (http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3366.page). :p
So things like:
* Power Core Combiner Dinobots
* Depth Charge's shark
* BW Scorponok's Cyber-Bee
* BW Sandstorm's Cyber-Bee
* Polar Claw's bat
* Grizzly-1/Barbearian's bat
* TF Prime Laserbeak
etc.

Well a few of those I am not familiar with but I'll answer those I am:

*PCC Dinobots (Wish I had'em!) - Na, drones
* Depth Charge's (the only Maximal I own) Shark - it's just a shark shaped gun isn't it? Not even a drone, more a tool
*Don't know the next 4
*TF Prime Laserbeak - oh how I wanted him to be sentient but it says specifically he's a drone so I have to live with it

[GoktimusPrime]

* Depth Charge's (the only Maximal I own) Shark - it's just a shark shaped gun isn't it? Not even a drone, more a tool
In the cartoon he could deploy it and it would swim independently and conduct reconnaissance - much like TF Prime Laserbeak, only aquatic. :) Scorponok's Cyber Bee could do the same thing, and also had a cyber-venom attack (it once infected Optimus Primal with a virus that made him extremely aggressive/violent). Having said that, the Maximals were able to hack into the Cyber Bee and use it, somewhat similar to when Wheeljack hacked Laserbeak.

Heh, all this talk of sentience makes me think of the Beast Wars episode "Transmutate" which deals with a Cybertronian who is sentient, but very mentally retarded and in possession of physically destructive capability; under such circumstances, should that being be allowed to continue living or should it be terminated for the sake of others? (i.e. does the needs to the many outweigh the needs of the individual?)

"Are we Predacons now? Do we destroy whatever does not fit our definition of perfection?!" - an outraged Silverbolt
:)

[Sky Shadow]

From the very beginning - i.e. #1 of the US comic and the tech specs, the bestial cassettes were shown to have personalities and be intelligent. In every continuity the animal cassettes have been shown to be as sentient as the other Transformers. The real question is whether they're always as sapient as a 'normal' Transformer.

[Gouki]

Unless specifically stated otherwise, or clearly a weapon (like bee or shark guns/missiles), I consider them all sentient, because I view the different modes they has as no different to how people look different.

Just because Wingthing was an Action Master partner (or TargetMaster according to Dreamwave, which makes sense to me), doesn't make him less sentient; it just makes him like Soundwaves PA.

[GoktimusPrime]

Just because Wingthing was an Action Master partner (or TargetMaster according to Dreamwave, which makes sense to me), doesn't make him less sentient; it just makes him like Soundwaves PA.
So would you consider Wingthing and Catgut to be as equally sentient or sapient as say Turbo Board and Vanguard? If one were to accept the bestial moded AM partners as being potentially sentient or sapient, then why not those with vehicular modes? After all, Raindance and Grand Slam have vehicular robot modes and they're presented as being sentient/sapient Autobots. Is it because Grand Slam and Raindance combine to form a gestalt robot? In that case, what about Power Core Combiner limb components like the PCC Dinobots? They have bestial modes and can combine to form a gestalt robot.

[Paulbot]

I was thinking about it, and I don't think Soundwave's cassettes have spoken in the IDW comics. I know they were under Skywatch control for a little while. Ratbat sure did, but we saw his unique "origin" in Megatron: Origin. I think the only Transformer with a beastmode and no robot mode that we've seen treated as a "full" Transformer has been Sky Lynx.

Some others thoughts I've had on this topic:

The idea of the action master animals (and I too liked Dreamwave labeling them "Targetmasters") being pets raises another question. Does Cybertron have wildlife and if so why and what's it nature? I know the cartoon writers like to throw out expressions like "roboto-possum" and there's those "turbofoxes" and so on, but actual depictions of wildlife on Cybertron are very rare.

If Transformers life was the result of "intelligent design", did Primus also populate their planet with animals. Transformers don't eat robot animals (that I can recall seeing), so what was the purpose? Did the war's drain on energon reserves cause mass extinction to Cybertron's other, non sentient/sapient, inhabitants?

I think it makes more sense that any Cybertronian wildlife was artificially created by Transformers and let loose. (For example AHM and FOC seemed to depict Insecticons as a form of natural wildlife but artificially enhanced/expirements.) Some TFs (like Ravage and Laserbeak) may have adapted modes similar to the wildlife creatures for the advantages the form gave them and as disguise (disguises that got less useful as the wildlife died out). Or maybe they were just forged that way? Every shape serves a purpose afterall.

[Sky Shadow]

Ravage has talked in both the regular IDW comics (e.g. Spotlight: Soundwave) and of course he talks in the Beast Wars ones.

[Paulbot]

Oh yeah. Just looking it up he was talking in RID too. I think it's the mind controlled appearances that are sticking out more in my memory. And when he was a dog in AHM...

[griffin]

Why can't the Actionmaster partners (beast, vehicles, weapons, backpacks, etc) be like Roller, in that they are a part of the person they were created for/from, and have the transcendental sentience from that person... as in they think/act as if they are another limb, and even feel each other's pain.

[GoktimusPrime]

Being an extension of the primary Transformer wouldn't make them at all sentient/sapient -- at best they'd be artificially intelligent. These components are like an extension of that Transformer's body or mind - kinda like the avatars from James Cameron's Avatar film. Pretenders can feel pain if their Shell is damaged (if anything the pain is amplified); a weakness exploited by Thunderwing when he blasted Bumblebee's shell, knocking 'Bee unconscious without even having to touch him. Likewise Carnivac was rendered temporarily unconscious due to the overwhelming pain he felt when he sacrificed his Pretender shell; and the fact that Carnivac was willing to endanger his shell like that indicates that there's no moral issues arising from the shell possessing any level of sentience (after all, not even Decepticon Target/Head/Powermasters will wantonly sacrifice their sapient Nebulan partners).

Roller and Combat Deck are essentially 'drones' for Optimus Prime, with Optimus Prime himself being the primary Transformer possessing sapience/sentience. Evidence that might suggest a lack of sentience in Optimus Prime's secondary components include:
+ The original tech specs describes the cab/robot as the "brain centre," suggesting that he is the sentient/sapient module.
+ Optimus Prime's G1 TFU profile states that "the Optimus module is by far the most important component of the trio. Although he could survive without the other two, they could not survive without him."
+ In "More Than Meets The Eye Part 3," Megatron destroys Combat Deck's artillery robot with a blast from his fusion cannon. Optimus Prime just shrugs it off and keeps fighting. He doesn't show any emotional reaction to it at all, either at the time or later on. Optimus Prime didn't even flinch when it happened! Either the pain feedback must've been reduced (so like the reverse of what happens with Pretenders), or he's just incredibly good at shrugging off paint ("'Tis but a flesh wound!")
+ In the IDWverse, Optimus Prime was able to transfer his consciousness into Combat Deck temporarily, and then transferred it back into the cab/robot component again.
+ eHobby retconned Roller as having originally been a non-sentient industrial droid known as Barrelroller which Orion Pax used as an electromagnetic lifter. Ditto in the Wings universe.
+ Nobody ever cares where Combat Deck and Roller bugger off to when Optimus Prime is in robot mode! They could back roll into a ditch and noone would check. :p

So yeah, if Action Master Partners are going to be autonomous components like Combat Deck and Roller, then I'd say that they'd be artificially intelligent but non-sentient/sapient modules. It'd suck if an Action Master felt pain from damage dealt to their partner... (e.g. if Attack Copter or Gatoraider were damaged, would Over-Run and Krok feel their pain?).

Having said that, there's at least one arguably 2 pieces of canonical evidence I can think of that might suggest the contrary about Optimus Prime:
1) In "Attack of the Autobots," the Autobots had to attach attitude exchangers to all of Optimus Prime's components, not just the Prime module. Does this mean that Prime's consciousness is spread among his three components? If so that would contradict the events of MTMTE#3 (of course, the G1 cartoon is chock full of continuity contradictions :rolleyes: :p)... otherwise we could theorise that while it's only Optimus who's sentient/sapient, the other components themselves were still fueled with "evil energy" and needed the attitude exchanger to convert their fuel to "good."
Or this: http://www.scaryforkids.com/pics/krusty-the-clown-14.jpg ;)
2) In the IDWverse, Orion Pax knew another Autobot called Roller. But whether that Autobot became Optimus Prime's Roller or if he was just an Autobot who coincidentally has the same name as Optimus Prime's scout component (or maybe Prime named his scout car after him as a tribute?) is unknown. There's nothing to say that an Action Master partner can't be fully sapient... but there just doesn't seem to be sufficient evidence to state that they are.

[Sky Shadow]

Soundwave's cassettes are horcruxes - every time he kills an Autobot he puts part of his spark in another cassette. ;) In his Universe profile, Metroplex/Scamper/Six-Gun was another trio like Prime/Roller/Combat Deck in that "Each has a mind of his own, although each essentially has a personality nearly identical to Metroplex and is mind-linked to him and each other. Scamper tends to be more impulsive and gregarious, Six-Gun more belligerent. The three minds together can be considered units of a single, larger mind, although Metroplex's mind is clearly dominant." Poor Slammer is just a remote-controlled tank, though.

[BigTransformerTrev]

according to the Action Masters' original lore, after discovering that Nucleon stripped them of their ability to transform, the Action Masters modified/developed their weapons and vehicles as transformable partners.
Also the TV commercial refers to some of the partners as "battle droids," which to me suggests A.I. over actual sentience.

At any rate, TFwiki (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Action_Master_partner) states, "They display personalities of their own and are sometimes very highly skilled. However, their origin is largely unknown, as is their exact level of sentience."




It does raise the question of if this is the case, why was the likes of Push-Button programmed to have pretty much the polar-opposite personality that would be required for the tasks he has to perform such as debugging Mainframe's programs. If he was programmed with A.I, wouldn't they have given him a personality complimentary to his assigned task? It seems more likely that he is his own bot with personality and spark, and just got lumbered with a job that he didn't want to do.


In his Universe profile, Metroplex/Scamper/Six-Gun was another trio like Prime/Roller/Combat Deck in that "Each has a mind of his own, although each essentially has a personality nearly identical to Metroplex and is mind-linked to him and each other. Scamper tends to be more impulsive and gregarious, Six-Gun more belligerent. The three minds together can be considered units of a single, larger mind, although Metroplex's mind is clearly dominant."

I was dissapointed to see Scamper portrayed simply as a drone in the Ironhide mini-series. I would have loved to see him and Six-Gun actually working around inside Metroplex, maybe as the coordinators of many of his functions as Alpha Trion concentrated on more lofty things as well as adjusting his facial cloth. Both Scamper and Six-Gun got appearances in the G1 cartoon and dialouge (albiet limited). Of course Six-Gun would have to have the biggest TF size expansion EVER for just his legs to become Metroplex's guns - makes Broadsides expansion into an Aircraft Carrier look downright normal.

[GoktimusPrime]

It does raise the question of if this is the case, why was the likes of Push-Button programmed to have pretty much the polar-opposite personality that would be required for the tasks he has to perform such as debugging Mainframe's programs. If he was programmed with A.I, wouldn't they have given him a personality complimentary to his assigned task? It seems more likely that he is his own bot with personality and spark, and just got lumbered with a job that he didn't want to do.
Perhaps Push Button just has an extremely buggy A.I., much like Artoo Detoo in Star Wars ("For a mechanic you do an excessive amount of thinking.") This is why Droids in Star Wars are meant to routinely have their memory wiped (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Memory_wipe), to prevent the droid from developing personality and independence that might override their programming leading them to act against the wishes of their owners (although in the case of Artoo, his lack of memory erasure proved beneficial, but in other cases it proved detrimental, such as in the case of IG-88A whom some might argue became nearly sentient). David in A.I. also developed his own quasi-personality and independence -- although he never did really deviate from his original programming (i.e. to eternally obsessively seek his mother as a simulation of love).

If an artificial intelligence were to become sentient/sapient, this would also raise a whole host of ethical/moral questions - which is most likely why Star Wars Droids are routinely memory wiped. Namely, would that artificially intelligent and now sapient entity be entitled to rights as other sapient beings? This is a question that Isaac Asimov explored in "The Positronic Man" (adapted into the film "The Bicentennial Man") and "I, Robot." In Star Wars, if a Droid were to become sentient/sapient, then continuing to treat them as property would become slavery. While slavery does exist in the Star Wars universe, it's generally abhorred by the "good" characters, yet nobody cares about the 'enslavement' of Droids. Our hero Luke Skywalker and his family happily owned and purchased Droids to work on their farm, and installed restraining bolts (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Restraining_bolt) to prevent them from fleeing (Artoo was able to bugger off to find Obi-Wan Kenobi because he deceived Luke into removing his bolt - again, part of the higher level A.I. shown by this Droid due to his lack of memory erasure).

But I would argue that despite everything that Artoo's been through, while he may be sentient, I don't think he's sapient. Artoo's the one character that's witnessed the entire saga from beginning to end - from when Anakin was slave boy to his rise as a Jedi to his fall as a Sith. If he were sapient, surely he would've figured some things out and mentioned it to Luke! ("Dude, I think Vader's your father, cos check this out...") ;) :D

[BigTransformerTrev]

Perhaps Push Button just has an extremely buggy A.I., much like Artoo Detoo in Star Wars ("For a mechanic you do an excessive amount of thinking.") This is why Droids in Star Wars are meant to routinely have their memory wiped (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Memory_wipe), to prevent the droid from developing personality and independence that might override their programming leading them to act against the wishes of their owners (although in the case of Artoo, his lack of memory erasure proved beneficial, but in other cases it proved detrimental, such as in the case of IG-88A whom some might argue became nearly sentient). David in A.I. also developed his own quasi-personality and independence -- although he never did really deviate from his original programming (i.e. to eternally obsessively seek his mother as a simulation of love).

If an artificial intelligence were to become sentient/sapient, this would also raise a whole host of ethical/moral questions - which is most likely why Star Wars Droids are routinely memory wiped. Namely, would that artificially intelligent and now sapient entity be entitled to rights as other sapient beings? This is a question that Isaac Asimov explored in "The Positronic Man" (adapted into the film "The Bicentennial Man") and "I, Robot." In Star Wars, if a Droid were to become sentient/sapient, then continuing to treat them as property would become slavery. While slavery does exist in the Star Wars universe, it's generally abhorred by the "good" characters, yet nobody cares about the 'enslavement' of Droids. Our hero Luke Skywalker and his family happily owned and purchased Droids to work on their farm, and installed restraining bolts (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Restraining_bolt) to prevent them from fleeing (Artoo was able to bugger off to find Obi-Wan Kenobi because he deceived Luke into removing his bolt - again, part of the higher level A.I. shown by this Droid due to his lack of memory erasure).

But I would argue that despite everything that Artoo's been through, while he may be sentient, I don't think he's sapient. Artoo's the one character that's witnessed the entire saga from beginning to end - from when Anakin was slave boy to his rise as a Jedi to his fall as a Sith. If he were sapient, surely he would've figured some things out and mentioned it to Luke! ("Dude, I think Vader's your father, cos check this out...") ;) :D

Or maybe they knew Mainframe would be lousy in a fight so gave him an angry little bugger that could turn into a massive fricken gun as an assistant-slash-bodyguard ;)

[BigTransformerTrev]

Ok, so what do we classify 'Bob' (Sunstreakers sidekick in IDW) as? Sentient? Semi-Sentient? Drone? Pet? Wildlife?

[GoktimusPrime]

Fully sapient being posing as a pet-drone... like Nibbler. :p ;)
(also defecates dark matter)

[GoktimusPrime]

Spotlight Hoist mild spoiler alert




















Bob can dream!

[BigTransformerTrev]

Wingthing just got a line then sent on a mission in Regen 93! Sentient I say!

(Hell, it was more lines than Laserbeak & Buzzsaw got combined in the G1 Western Cartoon!)



However TFwiki disagree's with me: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Wingthing

[GoktimusPrime]

The ability to speak and even interact doesn't necessarily make one sentient or sapient. Teletraan-1 and A.U.N.T.I.E. were capable of interactive speech but AFAIK are non-sentient artificial intelligences. Ditto Car Robot's AI (RiD T-AI) who even displayed simulated artificial emotions. To me the Action Master partners are Sparkless (and thus lifeless) droids, some of which are imbued with artificial intelligence, but are not actually living beings themselves who possess sentience or sapience.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Wingthing just got a line then sent on a mission in Regen 93! Sentient I say!



Well now Wingthing has his own MP figure and (like the Encore version) transforms into a cassette rather than a weapon.

So if he was a ‘lifeless drone’ as an AM/TM partner, it seems odd that he now has the same body type as Ratbat who has lead the Decepticons in more than one continuity and is most definitely a ‘living bot’.

Also a bit odd that a drone would be getting the MP treatment - I can’t see a future MP Mirage getting remoulded as a MorBot :p

[Paulbot]

The MP bio translations Goktimus has been posting seem to say that Wingthing and Stripes are indeed closer to animals/droids. Wingthing acts "as if he was alive". Stripes seems to be fauna reconstructed to be an Autobot (the translated sentence is unclear).

So I guess the Japanese writers might see the animal cassettes, including Ratbat, Ravage et al as "less than" the humanoid Transformers.

(I am curious thought if the original release of those extra tapes in the Encore line had similar bios though)

[GoktimusPrime]

Wingthing's bio definitely makes him out to be non-living but artificially intelligent, much like the droids in Star Wars. I like to imagine Wingthing with Alan Tudyk's K2SO voice from Rogue One. ;)

Stripes on the other hand I would say is alive and self-aware, but on the same level as an animal. He's sentient but not sapient. I love how Stripes' function is "Battle Beast." That's such a cool nod especially considering that Battle Beasts weren't even called Battle Beasts in Japan. They were of course released as part of the Transformers Headmasters line as "Beastformers." :D

[BigTransformerTrev]

The MP bio translations Goktimus has been posting seem to say that Wingthing and Stripes are indeed closer to animals/droids. Wingthing acts "as if he was alive". Stripes seems to be fauna reconstructed to be an Autobot (the translated sentence is unclear).

So I guess the Japanese writers might see the animal cassettes, including Ratbat, Ravage et al as "less than" the humanoid Transformers.

(I am curious thought if the original release of those extra tapes in the Encore line had similar bios though)


Wingthing's bio definitely makes him out to be non-living but artificially intelligent, much like the droids in Star Wars. I like to imagine Wingthing with Alan Tudyk's K2SO voice from Rogue One. ;)

Stripes on the other hand I would say is alive and self-aware, but on the same level as an animal. He's sentient but not sapient. I love how Stripes' function is "Battle Beast." That's such a cool nod especially considering that Battle Beasts weren't even called Battle Beasts in Japan. They were of course released as part of the Transformers Headmasters line as "Beastformers." :D

Huh - well there ya go - can’t argue with an official tech-spec (just read’em) :)

A bit full on that line in Wingthings making it sound like his fellow cassettes are merely intelligent drones/droids too - can’t see that going over well.

Stripes as fauna/a pet is kinda cool as like I’ve stated before, I always thought the AM TM partners should at least be pets, like how in IDW Krok is teased for naming himself after his departed pet (Gatoraider).

I guess in the end it’s all subjective since in the end it’s all fiction in the first place ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

A bit full on that line in Wingthings making it sound like his fellow cassettes are merely intelligent drones/droids too - can’t see that going over well.
Wingthing's bio doesn't say that this is the case for any other Cassette, just him. Most likely because he used to be a drone-weapon for Action Master Soundwave. Same with Stripes' feral persona -- it seems to be something that's unique to him.

https://image.ibb.co/cSbo9w/temp.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hBK89w/wingthing_ratbat.jpg

[BigTransformerTrev]

Wingthing's bio doesn't say that this is the case for any other Cassette, just him. Most likely because he used to be a drone-weapon for Action Master Soundwave

“Although programmed for loyalty, like their Master the cassettes are segregated...”

Makes it sound like all the cassettes are similar and are programmed - not that they have free will. I dunno - you are the one translating them, you know the context and sentence meanings better than I

[GoktimusPrime]

The meaning is that Wingthing is programmed for absolute loyalty, which implies that he joins Soundwave and his fellow Cassettes in being socially segregated from other Decepticons. Cos ya know, they all just live inside Soundwave's chest. ;) When I was a little kid I used to imagine that Soundwave's chest was like the Tardis and the Cassettes all lived happily inside there. :p

Anyway, here's the original line from the bio for anyone else who can read Japanese who may like to double-check my translation. ;)
プログラムの通り忠実ではあるが、そのために主人同様にカセットロンを除いた仲間のデストロンから好かれる ことはほとんどないようだ。