Masterpiece MP-20 speculation (from JP Toy Show)

[Tober]

From the 30th Anni Awards thread on TFW2005:


Taktom hinted about MP-20 today.
They said that MP-20 is confirmed but cannot be revealed yet
and he is a character who was thought to be difficult to get license...
upon listening that, I imagine he will be BB or Jazz or Mirage or wheeljack or someone like them.

Maybe Shockwave...


Q&A session
MP Devastator? On the table but timing is difficult for it will be very expensive toys.
MP Ultra magnus? On the table but timing is difficult for it will be very very expensive toy.
Beast Hunters on air in Japan? On the ta......

[Kazza]

Hoping its shockwave *fingers crossed*

[Iriorne]

I've read a lot of rumours about the VW and Porsche licenses being difficult to obtain because, being German companies that supplied vehicles to the Nazi regime in WW2, they're quite touchy about licensed products that are associated with war. *shrug*

I suppose the Astro Magnum could be seen as 'difficult' too, since nobody seems to know who actually holds the rights to it.

Personally I'd be keen to see more Autobot cars as the recent ones have been so cleverly designed. That said, I already have the third party QuakeWave, so perhaps I'm biased in that respect.

[Tallestblue]

Well now my hopes are high for an MP Jazz.

[Defcon]

Its most likely one of the Autobot cars. Though I hope not, cause we need something a little different...

[Sinnertwin]

Come to the party, Mitsubishi. There's 4 repaints right there of the Fuso.

[Sky Shadow]

Bumblebee or Jazz.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Too many Autobots in this new lot of MPS. Mine need some more Decepticons to help out.

[canofwhoopass_87]

Dammit. Was so convinced it was gonna be a proper MP Ultra Magnus! Jazz would be great, although I'd prefer to pay a little more moolah for a higher end Jazz design than the current MP cars (as nice as they are, they're a bit on the cheap side)

Is it just shockwave and the cars that have potential licensing issues? Any other characters that could fall into the "maybe" pile?

[Bidoofdude]

Could we change this to Masterpiece- MP-20 Hints, rather than without the 'hints' part, because I thought it was an announcement... :p

[Sky Shadow]

Is it just shockwave and the cars that have potential licensing issues? Any other characters that could fall into the "maybe" pile?

There are heaps of potentials: Jetfire, Roadbuster, Whirl, Barrage, Chop Shop, Ransack, Venom, Cy-Kill, Bug Bite, Dead End, Nightbeat, Minerva, Backstreet, Goldbug, Treadshot, et al. They're just not as likely.

[Hursticon]

I'll be very happy to see it being an MP Bumblebee, Wheeljack or Jazz ;):cool: - I'd much prefer to see some actual Decepticons outside of Seeker repaints though. :o

[VERT]

Im hoping for Jazz. Not interested in Shockwave. We have our nice 3rd party one for that :p:D

[XMan]

I totally agree Shockwave would be great, and we do need more Decepticons, but I can't stop thinking "Come on Ultra Magnus!!"

[griffin]

I was just having a thought on the MP Soundwave topic...

Maybe the designers are looking to focus on the first year of Transformers, to "complete the set".
Even though they could do with breaking up the run of Autobots, they have done all 10 first-year Decepticons, but only 4 of the 18 first-year Autobots... leaving 14 more to go.
MP Minibots? Why not... we had MP Cassettes.
Maybe some 2 or 3 packs of MP Minibots like the Cassettes would go nicely.

[Cat]

I've read a lot of rumours about the VW and Porsche licenses being difficult to obtain because, being German companies that supplied vehicles to the Nazi regime in WW2, they're quite touchy about licensed products that are associated with war. *shrug*

I suppose the Astro Magnum could be seen as 'difficult' too, since nobody seems to know who actually holds the rights to it.

Personally I'd be keen to see more Autobot cars as the recent ones have been so cleverly designed. That said, I already have the third party QuakeWave, so perhaps I'm biased in that respect.

It's not a rumour. It's a fact, albeit one dating back to the Alternator days, as far as Transformers confirmation that we are aware of.

And I doubt they'd do Jazz before 'Bee if they had access to that license, seeing as they're owned by the same company.

Although a counterpoint to that is that there's less association with Nazis to Porsches than to Beetles.

Maybe they had a regime change, and/or realised/had TakTom give assurances that characters using their cars would only be heroes, and/or not have included weapons. Or they just saw what Transformers association did for certain cars which in the TF movies, even ones which were baddies.

A less likely factor would be that the original Beetle shape was still being made at the time of the Alternators, and it's conception Pre-2003.

[doublespy]

It was also mentioned that it will be a "concept car". Probably was something lost in translation as there's technically not a single car mode that was based on an actual concept car, (or is there?)

[Cat]

Holy crap, that sounds like Wheeljack.

Hot Rod would also qualify, as he was also based on a concept car, the Dome Zero. Obviously he'd be an unlikely and silly choice. And was already done accurately without the need for a license anywhere.

Edit: I'm now seeing that statement clarified/added to, and that the concept car will be a new design for the line, so it could be anyone.

Smart money would still be on Bumblebee or Jazz.

[llamatron]

Sounds like it could be Wheeljack? That would be neat.

[Ultra Mackness]

I would absolutely love for it to be Wheeljack!

Am I remembering something correctly about Tak Tom saying something about releasing 2 big MPs per year and multiple smaller MPs in the same year? Or was that just this year?

If it's the case we might see Ultra Magnus and Megatron as big MPs and maybe Wheeljack, Jazz and Mirage as smaller.

[Sinnertwin]

While i'd welcome a Jazz or a Wheeljack - Lets see you squeeze 6 repaints each out of those molds TT- i'm not limiting myself to the 'difficult to acquire licencing' concept to Jazz or Bumble. There were quite a few manufacturers vehicle modes used in the cartoon etc where licencing issues may not be documented as well as VW's.
If we were to complete the '84 car line up we'd need licencing or use existing agreements from: Mitsubishi, VW, Ligier (Designed by Gerard Ducarouge), Lancia, Toyota, Nissan and Lamborghini, the last two already being used. Chevrolet and Honda if you want to include the '84-85 cars.

[llamatron]

Jazz and Bumblebee are traditionally the "impossible to acquire licencing" dudes, but I would assume that Wheeljack and Mirage would be tricky as well.

[kup]

I seriously doubt it's Shockwave. It will be Bumblebee or some other licensed car like Jazz.

[Bidoofdude]

Seriously gutted on the car news. :( Not really interested in them myself...

[Stug]

I'm wondering if it could be Sunstreaker? Closest thing to a "concept" car in the '84/85 line up I can think of and I'd expect there'd have been reluctance by Lamborghini to authorise anything based on a customisation of an iconic design - possibly an expectation they had from conversation while negotiating the original mould?

Personally, I'd actually prefer a Jazz or Bumblebee but I don't really care who it is... I'm pretty certain I'll be getting it regardless!

[ILikeSoundwave]

I am really hoping it's Mirage!!!:D, but Shockwave would great too!

[GoktimusPrime]

MASTAH PIECE TIME WARRIAH!!!

[Cat]

I'm wondering if it could be Sunstreaker? Closest thing to a "concept" car in the '84/85 line up I can think of and I'd expect there'd have been reluctance by Lamborghini to authorise anything based on a customisation of an iconic design - possibly an expectation they had from conversation while negotiating the original mould?

Personally, I'd actually prefer a Jazz or Bumblebee but I don't really care who it is... I'm pretty certain I'll be getting it regardless!

Sunstreaker wouldn't count as a 'new license' though. It'd still be under the current Lamborghini license.

He also seems like a less likely choice. Remember, his G1 toy was only released in Japan in one gift set, so he's not as big there as here. He was even sometimes replaced by Red Alert as Sideswipe's brother (or the early mention of them being triplets).

He just doesn't seem someone they'd rush to do at this stage.

[Starscream77]

MP Mirage or Wheeljack would be friggin awesome
And not that I think it fits in the category of hard to license but I still hold hope for a brilliant Hound MP

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Clarification from Shogo Hasui (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/masterpiece-mp-20-clarification-177751/) - link courtesy of TFW2005.com.

Hasui: "About the new Masterpiece, I believe many of you want to hear about MP20. We can't show it yet, but MP20 will finally be that character, that car model which the license was very difficult to obtain".If I was a betting man I'd be betting on Bumblebee.

[doublespy]

Clarification from Shogo Hasui (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/masterpiece-mp-20-clarification-177751/) - link courtesy of TFW2005.com.
If I was a betting man I'd be betting on Bumblebee.

Very nice! Either Jazz or Bumblebee will be a big step towards completing the original 84 cast.
I hope it's Bumblebee and finally Spike can have his proper ride:D

[Hursticon]

Clarification from Shogo Hasui (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/masterpiece-mp-20-clarification-177751/) - link courtesy of TFW2005.com.
If I was a betting man I'd be betting on Bumblebee.

I'd be very likely to join you in that bet; I can't believe it, but I'm actually kind of excited now at the prospect of an MP Bumblebee - Never would've thought that I'd have that feeling! :eek::cool:

[Sinnertwin]

If VW have indeed come to the party, Jazz, Stepper and perhaps a Bumble and Cliff two-pack would be veeery welcome.

[griffin]

Bumblebee probably would make sense if they were going for a big name for number 20.

(I just find it ironic that after all these years of Bumblebee-flooding of the toyline, people are actually excited about another Bumblebee coming out :p )

[Defcon]

Hopes its bumblebee, he would look amazing with Optimus on display and with other autobots. Jazz also. But we also need ratchet and ironhide.

[Ultra Mackness]

If they did release Bumblebee, would they think of releasing a two pack, one of his cybertronian mode from Ep1 of the G1 cartoon along with a VW alt mode bot? This could mean that the sizes would be smaller and keep Bee in scale.

[Sinnertwin]

Hopes its bumblebee, he would look amazing with Optimus on display and with other autobots. Jazz also. But we also need ratchet and ironhide.

I wonder why they havent gone with the ironhide/ratchet onebox yet. They've got the Nissan deal with the Datsun brothers and the GT-R's, one or two more from Nissan wouldn't hurt. Repaint value's there.

[Hursticon]

Bumblebee probably would make sense if they were going for a big name for number 20.

(I just find it ironic that after all these years of Bumblebee-flooding of the toyline, people are actually excited about another Bumblebee coming out :p )

Yep, it is a very weird & somewhat conflicting feeling. :p
I just rationale it to there being a multidimensional-sized distance/difference between G1 Bumblebee & Movieverse Bumblebee. ;):cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

Bumblebee probably would make sense if they were going for a big name for number 20.

(I just find it ironic that after all these years of Bumblebee-flooding of the toyline, people are actually excited about another Bumblebee coming out :p )
Hopefully Hasbro won't ruin a good thing by releasing a slew of superfluous redecos like MP Shadow Strike Bumblebee, MP Stealth Bumblebee, MP Night Attack Bumblebee, MP Jungle Combat Bumblebee, MP Herbie the Love Bug Bumblebee etc.! Any variants should be done as a limited exclusive, as they've done with other MP variants in the past (e.g. MP Bug Bite etc.)

[Hursticon]

Hopefully Hasbro won't ruin a good thing by releasing a slew of superfluous redecos like MP Shadow Strike Bumblebee, MP Stealth Bumblebee, MP Night Attack Bumblebee, MP Jungle Combat Bumblebee, MP Herbie the Love Bug Bumblebee etc.! Any variants should be done as a limited exclusive, as they've done with other MP variants in the past (e.g. MP Bug Bite etc.)

+1 QFT! ;):cool:

[Lint]

I wonder why they havent gone with the ironhide/ratchet onebox yet. They've got the Nissan deal with the Datsun brothers and the GT-R's, one or two more from Nissan wouldn't hurt. Repaint value's there.

They're probably still working on engineering some cartoon accuracy for those two models as the original G1 toys barely resembled robots. Also I don't know how popular these two characters were in Japan but that may also be a factor.

That said, when they do it, it's gonna be awesome! :D

[kaiden]

i think it should be jazz so we can get a ricochet redeco like how they're doing g2 sideswipe.

[MayzaPrime]

I would love to see Wheeljack or Mirage, as the licence for the cars have also been hard to obtain...

But having said that I would be happy with Jazz, BB or Cliffjumper

The possible repaints
Jazz: Stepper & G2 Jazz
BB: Red BB, Bugbite, Glyph
CJ: Hupcap, Tapout, Yellow CJ
WheelJack: Slicer
Mirage: Clear Mirage

[tinyJazz]

Clarification from Shogo Hasui (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/masterpiece-mp-20-clarification-177751/) - link courtesy of TFW2005.com.
If I was a betting man I'd be betting on Bumblebee.

:D:D Yeeah. I'm with you on that one. Nail the toughest one down first, and here's hoping the rest will follow! MP Jazz, Mirage and Wheeljack would be awesome. I'd love to have an MP lineup of Autobot cars (and vans, and trucks, and dinosaurs...).


Bumblebee probably would make sense if they were going for a big name for number 20.

(I just find it ironic that after all these years of Bumblebee-flooding of the toyline, people are actually excited about another Bumblebee coming out :p )

Truth. I think we're excited for a Bumblebee done right for once, and not another superfluous repaint.

I'm sure I can think of at least six superfluous repaints for an MP Jazz though.:o

[Sinnertwin]

Hopefully Hasbro won't ruin a good thing by releasing a slew of superfluous redecos like MP Shadow Strike Bumblebee, MP Stealth Bumblebee, MP Night Attack Bumblebee, MP Jungle Combat Bumblebee, MP Herbie the Love Bug Bumblebee etc.! Any variants should be done as a limited exclusive, as they've done with other MP variants in the past (e.g. MP Bug Bite etc.)

Please, TT, Herbie the Love Bot.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Hopefully Hasbro won't ruin a good thing by releasing a slew of superfluous redecos like MP Shadow Strike Bumblebee, MP Stealth Bumblebee, MP Night Attack Bumblebee, MP Jungle Combat Bumblebee, MP Herbie the Love Bug Bumblebee etc.! Any variants should be done as a limited exclusive, as they've done with other MP variants in the past (e.g. MP Bug Bite etc.)If they ever make an MP "New hat" Bumblebee - with an actual felt hat - I'm so in.

The possible repaints
Jazz: Stepper & G2 Jazz
BB: Red BB, Bugbite, Glyph
CJ: Hupcap, Tapout, Yellow CJ
...Mirage: Clear MirageI'd be in for a Glyph and Hubcap too.
Just to add a few more possible repaints/retools...
Jazz: Kick-Off, Jackpot
Cliffjumper: Bumper
Mirage: SE Drag Strip, Skid-Z, Fracture

[kaiden]

Just to add a few more possible repaints/retools...
Jazz: Kick-Off, Jackpot


I just remembered Longarm & Treadshot

[Starscream77]

Not sure if it really adds to the speculation but the 3rd party Art Feather BBs have drastically dropped in price over the last couple of weeks.

Could just be poor sales or maybe somebody knows a real MP Bee is coming

[Trent]

Not sure if it really adds to the speculation but the 3rd party Art Feather BBs have drastically dropped in price over the last couple of weeks.

Could just be poor sales or maybe somebody knows a real MP Bee is coming

Speculation. Its like the share market;)

[KaRNiV8L PRiME]

Not sure if it really adds to the speculation but the 3rd party Art Feather BBs have drastically dropped in price over the last couple of weeks.

Could just be poor sales or maybe somebody knows a real MP Bee is coming

Art feathers BB is currently in my masterpiece collection but he will fit into my classics shelf if MP20 is bee

[Magnus]

I dunno about Bumblebee. I'm more inclined to think it's Jazz - it would be in keeping or more 'consistent' with the current releases of Autobot cars. If so, I'm wondering if TT also managed to get licencing rights from Martini Racing for the car's livery.

[MayzaPrime]

I forgot about at Goldbug retool!

[tinyJazz]

I dunno about Bumblebee. I'm more inclined to think it's Jazz - it would be in keeping or more 'consistent' with the current releases of Autobot cars. If so, I'm wondering if TT also managed to get licencing rights from Martini Racing for the car's livery.

That's something I've been wondering too. Would they need a licence from Martini for the MP? Did they need a licence for the TRU/Encore reissue decos?
Although, if they're sticking with the trend of cartoon accurate they could just throw on a blue stripe. Which would be a shame, because the martini stripes are really sharp, and they'd be missing the accents on the wheel-wells and the doors.

[Sinnertwin]

Speaking of G1 vehicles and racing. (http://tfsource.com/blog/the-racing-cars-of-diaclone-and-early-g1/)
Takara. Make the others happen.

[Stug]

Would they need a licence from Martini for the MP?

This is an interesting point and also goes to a more general question I have with licensing as has been discussed here. I'm also a scale modeller and the way licensing agreements are discussed here differs from that for scale models which started emerging I guess about 10 years ago.

Here, if I’m reading correctly, it’s implied that a license from a manufacturer extends to all their products and those of their subsidiaries (i.e. a VW license extends to Porsche, a licence to do a Datsun Fairlady implies they can do a Nissan Onebox). However in the scale world, a model manufacturer must secure a licence to reproduce the IP for each and every model. For example if Tamiya makes a P-51D Mustang, they have to pay Boeing (who now own it) a flat rate to use it and a percentage of the sale price for each kit produced (I’d seen that quoted as being between 3 and 10% depending on the IP owner). If Tamiya then produce a kit of another Boeing product – an F/A-18D or 747 or even a P-51B (which only differs in the fuselage shape to the D) – they have to obtain a new licence to use that IP. Of course, if it’s a 747, depending on the livery, yes they also have to obtain a licence from any airlines. I remember discussing with one local, aftermarket decal manufacturer at a local show that he had to obtain licences from Qantas and even the RAAF (to be able to use the air force roundels – however I don’t recall the RAAF imposing any licensing fees on him). There were also other airlines that didn’t really care and saw it as free marketing. The larger model manufacturers also seem to align with their national carriers which probably gets them some break on licensing and/or fees (i.e. Hasegawa almost exclusively does JAL or ANA, Revell AG does Lufthansa and a few other European/Airbus affiliated airlines – or they just do the manufacturer’s demonstration liveries which they probably buy with the aircraft IP). Interestingly, this may explain why there was no licence (that I'm aware of) for the seeker mould; it's probably argued that these are based on the F-15J which is a Mitsubishi product and not considered a Boeing...

So would they need a licence from Martini? ... depends on Martini but I assume they’d at least have to ask. (I don’t think the old “ii” at the end satisfactorily removes the need for permissions these days as the livery would be deemed representative and recognisable especially paired with the car).

So then my query is in relation to licensing with individual car models – is it a case here that a manufacturer extends permissions over all their products to TT or is that just an assumption as that would be very different to the scale modelling situation? (Or have TT made statements that they are seeking and only proceeding if they have whole of range assurances?) Just asking should anyone know to satisfy my own curiosity...

(Sorry, that got a bit long winded and don't mean to hijack the thread :o)

[Cat]

I dunno about Bumblebee. I'm more inclined to think it's Jazz - it would be in keeping or more 'consistent' with the current releases of Autobot cars. If so, I'm wondering if TT also managed to get licencing rights from Martini Racing for the car's livery.

They've skated by for over a decade with just changing out 'Martinii' to 'Meister' and 'Agent Meister' on the book, Commemorative, and Encore reissues.

I think it depends on what unique modifications were done by Martini that are visible. For the general deco, not counting the name callouts.

If it's just the deco, I think there's enough wiggle room to claim it as not needing those rights.

It would also depend on the contracts between the car company and racing team. Was the car supplied to them, etc?


Will people accept a Masterpiece with non-racing brand markings ala Meister?

Most probably won't even notice until its pointed out. Then again, most people were just happy to be able to buy a reissue Jazz. Some figured Reprolabels would do as a fix if it really bothered them.

Stug, to partially answer you, or at least clarify why people are taking this way, as in one license providing access to all subsidiaries: It depends on the individual contract. Eg Ferrari's master toy license is with Mattel.

The reason people are talking about VW and Porsche as one, is because the parent company issued their no-war decree across all subsidiaries. We know this because in the Alternators days, they were knocked back for both VW and Porsche sections, by Volkswagen.

And because getting one, and doing a good job, can open doors for TT/Hasbro, to their other models and subsidiaries.

The Dodge license started with RID, for example. That initially neutral (probably tense, possibly hostile) and rocky start lead directly to the closer relationship for Alternators a few years later.

[kurdt_the_goat]

I'm not sure they'd be too fussed about getting every last decal correct... take this real life smokescreen (http://www.a2zracer.com/page84.html) that has many more and different decals compared to the MP toy:

http://i.imgur.com/KWgG8Up.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CRR2EaZ.jpg

My money's on Bumblebee, as that's bound to be the one with the most sales potential. I hope if i'm right that they get to Jazz eventually though, he's my most wanted!

[Magnus]

Good call on that Datsun, Kurdt. It would be more 'realistic' to reproduce the Electramotive car, but not 'screen accurate'.

Since TT were going for licensed reproductions, I guess I was hoping for a 'full-on' reproduction of the livery from the 1976 Mugello car, since licensed reproductions of race cars have accurate sponsor logos.

[GoktimusPrime]

MP is more about making the toy look like the cartoon rather than real life. Binaltech was definitely more into reality based alt modes. BT Smokescreen was a pretty darn accurate scale replica of the Subaru WRC team cars. ;)

http://www.cliffbee.com/reviews/images/btsmokescreen.gif
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1601-12.jpg

[Tober]

If VW have indeed come to the party, Jazz, Stepper and perhaps a Bumble and Cliff two-pack would be veeery welcome.

Hmmm... Cliffjumper was a Porsche 924.

Looking forward to seeing Takara tackle that one. :D

[Bidoofdude]

I'd love a Bumblebee. Would make a great main character Autobot. :cool:

[CBratron]

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/list.aspx?list=13061

BBTS has posted preorders for MP-20 Wheeljack, MP-21 Bumblebee and MP-12G G2 Sideswipe based on preliminary info.
I'm hoping that $80 for Bumblebee is only a placeholder value.

[Starscream77]

Hell yeah for Wheeljack!!!!!

[tinyJazz]

Shogo Hasui you son of a gun.

[Lord_Zed]

Wheeljack that makes my day. Only Jazz would have topped that for me, and only by a tiny margin.

And with MP Bumblebee a reality maybe Jazz is not impossible too.

[lancalot]

:eek: Wheeljack would be nice ...hopefully the make a good robot mode of him ... but for me i was wishing it was jazz....

[maxirod]

Finally Wheeljack! Yay! Will it be a Lancia....

[doublespy]

Shogo Hasui you son of a gun.

This.

[Tober]

Bumblebee is excellent news. Opens all sorts of opportunities. :D

Wheeljack is sweet too. :)

[Iriorne]

Just saw the email from BBTS. Bumblebee was expected and Wheeljack is surprising but welcome news.


Will it be a Lancia....

I'll be happy as long as it's not a box. Actually, I'd probably be happy either way - gotta love wings and shoulder cannons. :)

http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/4/42/Cybertronwheeljack.jpg

[Hursticon]

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/list.aspx?list=13061

BBTS has posted preorders for MP-20 Wheeljack, MP-21 Bumblebee and MP-12G G2 Sideswipe based on preliminary info.
I'm hoping that $80 for Bumblebee is only a placeholder value.

You've brought many a smile with this post dude. ;):cool:

[Ultra Mackness]

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/list.aspx?list=13061

BBTS has posted preorders for MP-20 Wheeljack, MP-21 Bumblebee and MP-12G G2 Sideswipe based on preliminary info.
I'm hoping that $80 for Bumblebee is only a placeholder value.

Oh wow!!! You've made my day with this news! Wheeljack was my first TF back in 85 and I've been waiting for an MP WJ since MP-01!

Whoohoo!

[Trent]

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/list.aspx?list=13061

BBTS has posted preorders for MP-20 Wheeljack, MP-21 Bumblebee and MP-12G G2 Sideswipe based on preliminary info.
I'm hoping that $80 for Bumblebee is only a placeholder value.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc88/Wrxus/E47477D2-93B6-4E4F-8E7B-AE1DA29DCC8D-951-000002747D1CE8C5.jpg