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JuzMel
11th January 2008, 10:08 AM
Yet another topic which I decided to bring over from the old forum. The original G1, it never fails to fascinate me, what with the animations from the 1980s, the funny "disappearing acts" of characters when they transform, some crappy toys which is no way similar to what they are in the cartoon/comics it's still one of the best series ever and will always be a fav in everyone's hearts.

Some topics discussed:
1) The "Mass-Shifting" of the characters in the cartoon
2) Different story plots between the cartoon and the comic
3) About funny characters appearing out of nowhere sometimes in the cartoon
4) The Constructicons - how were they created and how did Megatron came about
5) Devcon - The Bounty Hunter where I wished appeared in more series
6) The Autobots - How new ones came and old ones disappeared without explanation
7) The portraying of female autobots

As usual, you can talk about anything relating to the G1 Series here. Ask questions about the cartoon, toys or comics. So I'll go first:

i) Does the Price and ID Guide provide the full list of G1 transformers autobots and decepticons?
ii) Does Encore Ironhide and Ratchet really have cardboard heads?! :eek: And did any of the toy range ever had a proper metal head at all?

Paulbot
11th January 2008, 10:33 AM
The Price and ID Guide only covers the American toys so it excludes European toys (which were sold in Australia and are G1 Autobots and Decepticons) and the Japanese toys (which I guess aren't technically G1 Autobots and Decepticons).

The Transformers Generations book has the most complete lists of G1 toys (but isn't in English)

TheDirtyDigger
11th January 2008, 11:04 AM
And did any of the toy range ever had a proper metal head at all?

Not to my knowledge. Prove me wrong someone.:p

GoktimusPrime
11th January 2008, 11:34 AM
Metalhawk has a die-cast metal head.

http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/05/r_metalhawk088.jpg

TheDirtyDigger
11th January 2008, 11:40 AM
Metalhawk has a die-cast metal head.

http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/05/r_metalhawk088.jpg



Very cool. But my bad here. I didn't quote enough of Mel's original question. She was wondering if Ironhide and Ratchet were ever released with a metal head.....I think.

GoktimusPrime
11th January 2008, 12:42 PM
as far as I know, no.

kup
11th January 2008, 08:37 PM
Encore Ironhide and Ratchet do come with cardboard heads but you have to pop them out of the box inner flaps.

They don't look very good and actually makes the toy look weirder than it already is because the arms are way too low based on where the head is.

The best option to make Ironhide and Ratchet more G1 cartoon like is to buy the Reprolabels Upgrade kid and substitude the weird face sticker on the driver's sit with the more cartoon accurate ones supplied. It will still look weird but not as bad as having his shoulders coming out of his waist.

Reprolabels Website:
http://reprolabels.com/main.asp

Ironhide and Ratchet Upgrade stickers:
http://reprolabels.com/Upgrades/upgrade1.asp
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STL
11th January 2008, 10:41 PM
I'm more resigned to the fact that I know they're woefully inaccurate and really don't care for any lame attempt at making them more accurate. When I got back into collecting, I found it really hard to find the moulds were even Ironhide and Ratchet. Overtime though, it just became cold hard fact to me that that's the closest G1 toy version I'll ever get so head improvement or not,'tis still Ironhide and Ratchet

GoktimusPrime
13th January 2008, 10:13 AM
They're not inaccurate. The toys came first. That's not to say that they don't look strange as sentient robots (although I personally like them - but I'll admit that I'm probably alone in this :p), but it's unfair to say that they look "inaccurate." It's the other way around, although admittedly the show/comic likeness was an improvement.

It's quite unfair to criticise the design of these toys for not achieving something that they were never meant to achieve. If anything, it's Hasbro's fault for choosing these two moulds for Transformers and/or not attempting to give them better looking faces (the Powerdashers' faces were stickers too, but they look a whole lot nicer!).

But as far as the toy designs are concerned, you need to keep in mind:
1/ Car Robot mecha, like all Diaclone mecha, were non-living piloted machinations.
2/ "Ironhide" and "Ratchet" were not true mecha in the sense that we typically think of them as piloted humanoid robots (e.g.: Gundam, Macross, Dorvack et al), but rather they were power armours piloted by Diaclone pilots and they were intended as onfield reinforcements for other Diaclone Car Robot mecha - designed to deliver munitions, make repairs etc to them (hence the utility trailer that they stand on).

For those of you who may not be familiar with the concept of a power armour and how it may differ from the conventional idea of mecha, power armours are essentially more like exoskeletons rather than big robots that you drive around - although "Ironhide" and "Ratchet" were quite extreme examples... they were nearly robotic mecha, but they were still technically power armours.

Other examples of power armours include Ellen Ripley's Power Loader from Aliens...
http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/831/831290/aliens-ripley-queen-ft_1193711384.jpg

...and the Power Manipulators from Macross Frontier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xolu0TdAljQ) (which are required to pilot Valkyries - thus making them power-armoured controlled mecha)...
http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/Macross_F/MF-79.jpg
(Parental Advisory: link contains animated violence/horror)

...so in its original Diaclone context, the designs of Ironhide and Ratchet are fine and make perfect sense. But they don't translate so well as Transformers, but that is not a fault with the toy design because when these toys were designed they were never (at the time) intended to be Transformers.

Hasbro really should have either skipped these moulds for Transformers or modified their robot modes - at very least give them better looking face stickers or clip on heads that would fit over the seat.

Having said all that, Ironhide and Ratchet do look really good in vehicle mode.

Onebox Cherry Vanette ("Ironhide")
http://www.diaclone.net/orid/dia037/03722.jpg

Onebox Cherry Vanette Ambulance ("Ratchet")
http://www.diaclone.net/orid/dia039/03910.jpg

dirge
13th January 2008, 11:55 AM
Hasbro really should have left these two moulds alone, since as Goktimus has highlighted, they were simply not meant to be humanoid, and the multi-sourced Transformers line was assembling humanoid robots from several sources.

A better bet would have been to utilise the three Diaclone Car Robots moulds that ended up being cast aside.

+ The Honda City mould (which did eventually see release as a Transformer, the e-Hobby toy Crosscut), featuring a different head and chest to Skids (Honda City Turbo):

http://www.diaclone.net/orid/dia041/04109.jpg

+ The Marlboro Lancia Stratos (AKA "Marlboro Wheeljack"), which has a different head to Wheeljack:

http://www.diaclone.net/orid/dia053/05312.jpg

+ The Countach-LP500S/Super Tuning Policecar Type (Police Sunstreaker):

http://www.diaclone.net/orid/dia038/cp02.jpg

I can understand why the last one wasn't used - it's very similar to both Red Alert & Prowl, but both the Honda City and Marlboro Lancia were significantly different from Skids & Wheeljack that they could have worked.

I'm not complaining, I'm perfectly happy with Ironhide & Ratchet (and Crossbut, because I do like the Honda City!), but it was an unusual move for Hasbro - who have released few van Transformers down the years anyway.

Demonac
13th January 2008, 01:27 PM
I don't mind the design. Just because something is sentient, doesn't mean it has to be humanoid. The windscreens in front of the faces should be viewed as protective masks...kinda like what welders wear.

roller
13th January 2008, 03:23 PM
I like the original moulds but the new cardboard heads look ok too

GoktimusPrime
13th January 2008, 06:46 PM
I don't mind the design. Just because something is sentient, doesn't mean it has to be humanoid. The windscreens in front of the faces should be viewed as protective masks...kinda like what welders wear.
*high five* All right! Another lover of toy-accurate G1 Ironhide and Ratchet! :D

I've always imagined the windows as being equipped with a HUD (Heads-Up Display) in robot mode.

I like how Ironhide's Cybertronian form was given a hybrid toy and cartoon likeness in "The War Within." :)

http://www.bwtf.com/cbreviews/dw/ww1/autobots.gif

They did the same for Ratchet too, but placed the windscreen behind the head, I suppose to make him look more distinct from Ironhide.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/b/b9/Ratchettww.jpg/180px-Ratchettww.jpg

Some other moments of toy-accuracy in G1...

Toy accurate Ratchet, as he appeared in the early G1 comics (Ironhide was also drawn in the same manner)
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/3/33/Ratchetg1first.jpg/180px-Ratchetg1first.jpg

Ratchet's trailer from the G1 cartoon
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/b/b0/Ratchetg1cartoon.jpg

Ironhide's trailer weapon (missile launcher)
http://www.unicron.us/tf1984/cartoonpix/ironhide2c.jpg
http://www.bwtf.com/tfg1/tvshow/mtmte3/8.gif

JuzMel
15th January 2008, 04:28 PM
Yeah, I was asking if Ironhide and Ratchet ever had a proper metal head built for them in any of the range of toys.

And I bewildered because both the character were never portrayed as control stations, so why was the toy moulded as them to transform into battle/control stations?

GoktimusPrime
15th January 2008, 06:50 PM
mel: please re-read my last post on page 1 in answer to that question. :)

JuzMel
16th January 2008, 03:13 PM
Oh whoops.. sowie.. I kinda read that it's toy accurate according to the comics, maybe you wanna sponser one of the comics so that I can have a clearer look? Heeeheeheehee... :D

GoktimusPrime
16th January 2008, 04:01 PM
Nice try. ;)

A couple of years ago Titan Books went and reprinted a good chunk of the G1 comics; most of the G1 US run and a few of the UK story arcs. If you want to look at the really early issues (as in the ones that were made before the G1 cartoon ever aired and feature more toy-accurate artwork) you'll want to pick up the first graphic novel reprint which was called - surprisingly - "Beginnings." ;)

softcoverhttp://www.graphicnovelarchive.com/images/transformers_beginnings.jpghttp://tplist.millarworld.net/Images/transformers1.jpghardcover

Click here (http://tplist.millarworld.net/transformers.html) for a full list of the Titan Book G1 and G2 reprints.

JuzMel
17th January 2008, 11:04 AM
Haha Gok, it was worth a try.. :D

Anyway I did an ebay search and only found the hardcover one, though the softcover one looks nicer.

Gonna hit back on the G1 DVDs tonight and see what other questions I might have. :p Meantime does anyone know of any good G1 books for character identification? Or point me somewhere where we might have talked about this already. I'm pretty blur lately..

Paulbot
17th January 2008, 11:11 AM
The recent TF Price and ID Guide is a good start. The book has it's flaws but it the most recent and it covers most G1 toys and characters, and can be found or ordered by big book stores. Around $50

The Cybertronian series by Antartic Press are excellent but pricey
www.antarctic-press.com

For solely character purposes Dreamwave's More Than Meets The Eye comic series (collected into two books) is great but has a lot of information that is only relevant to the Dreamwave comic stories.

kup
17th January 2008, 12:32 PM
The recent TF Price and ID Guide is a good start. The book has it's flaws but it the most recent and it covers most G1 toys and characters, and can be found or ordered by big book stores. Around $50

The Cybertronian series by Antartic Press are excellent but pricey
www.antarctic-press.com

For solely character purposes Dreamwave's More Than Meets The Eye comic series (collected into two books) is great but has a lot of information that is only relevant to the Dreamwave comic stories.

I have that book and although it only covers US G1 (1984-1990) and the suggested prices are WAY too low to the market value of the past 2 years, it still has some very good photos of the toys along with a excellent list and photos of all accessories which is very helpful for obvious reasons.
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dirge
17th January 2008, 11:08 PM
I'm going to recommend the Antarctic press series, purely because I'm listed as a contributor for issue #5 d:

If it's character you're after, I'd go with Dreamwave's More Than Meets The Eye books. They're the only books that really delve into each toy as a separate character. Pretty much everything else tends to dismiss individual Micromasters and brushes past a lot of the G1 characters. Sadly, it doesn't have an entry for Bumper (who's first and to date only official appearance in TF canon is in a Dreamwave comic), but otherwise it's great.

GoktimusPrime
18th January 2008, 12:59 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/madboard01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/madboard02.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/madboard03.jpg

JuzMel
22nd January 2008, 02:13 PM
I'm going to recommend the Antarctic press series, purely because I'm listed as a contributor for issue #5 d:

If it's character you're after, I'd go with Dreamwave's More Than Meets The Eye books. They're the only books that really delve into each toy as a separate character. Pretty much everything else tends to dismiss individual Micromasters and brushes past a lot of the G1 characters. Sadly, it doesn't have an entry for Bumper (who's first and to date only official appearance in TF canon is in a Dreamwave comic), but otherwise it's great.
Hey guys, I cna't seem to find the book on ebay, is "Cybertronian Series" the exact title?

And I'm finally back on watching the G1 cartoon after I finished Cybertron. So is the Headmasters continuation any good? Has anyone watched it yet?

Paulbot
22nd January 2008, 02:42 PM
There's a thread for the Headmasters cartoon
http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=208

The book's full title is "Cybertronian: the Unofficial Transformers Recognition Guide" Volume 1, 2 etc. They were pricey to buy new and the first edition came out 7 or so years ago so they might be a little hard to track down on ebay.

JuzMel
24th January 2008, 10:01 AM
Ohhh okie.. I See..

Anyway more questions on the cartoon:

Episode 59: War Dawn or something, it's the first time that they show Orion Pax and Aerial who later got reconstructed by Alpha Trion to become Optimus Prime and Elita One respectively. But there was also another yellow/blue vehicle whom Orion Pax introduced as his friend called "Diode" or something, who is that fellow and what happened to him? He looks abit like Kup..

Paulbot
24th January 2008, 10:07 AM
Dion. There's an eHobby toy of Dion that's a repaint of Wheelie!

Some people think he became Ultra Magnus. Some think he might have become Ironhide.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Dion

I think he was just a character for this episode who became a casualty of war.

GoktimusPrime
24th January 2008, 07:04 PM
the Targetmaster Kup reissue was repainted as Orion Pax and as Paulbot has pointed out, the reissue Wheelie figure was repainted as Dion! :)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/optimusprime_evolutions.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/1/18/Dionrobot.jpghttp://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/4/42/Diong1toy.jpg/562px-Diong1toy.jpg

JuzMel
22nd February 2008, 11:19 AM
I finally had the time to continue my G1 and also watched the G1 Cartoon movie. Gotta say the songs were cheesy and they swapped an Autobot leader with lousier qualities than the Almighty Prime.. why did they do that? Rodimus Prime is a sxxx leader...:confused:

And which part of the cartoon did Skylynx appear? I just got my invoice to pay HLJ for my skylynx but the funny part is that i realised I have never seen him before... :p

GoktimusPrime
22nd February 2008, 12:07 PM
Sky Lynx appears in Season 3.

They subbed Optimus Prime for Rodimus Prime because the Optimus Prime toy was no longer in production by 1986 and they were pushing for the sale of their new Autobot leader toy, Rodimus Prime (goodness knows they needed to, it was a pretty crap toy; Hot Rod is a much better toy IMO). Storywise Optimus Prime died in Transformers The Movie and Rodimus Prime became the new leader by the end of it.

The problem, as you've seen, is that they made Rodimus Prime focus too much on comparing himself with the "great Optimus Prime" and whining about how he'd never measure up instead of just building a bridge and getting on with the task at hand. :/

JuzMel
27th February 2008, 09:58 AM
Thanks Gok..

Yeah gotta say Rodimus Prime is really annoying, he always likes to compare himself with Prime and also seemed to wish that he wasn't the leader. He has no leadership qualities at all. Everytime when something bad happens, it seems like he feels that its such a chore and wished he wasn't the leader having to undertake such responsibilies. *sign*

Just checking again guys, Was Sunstreaker and Mirage ever reissued at all? I can't seem to find any of them except the original 1980s G1 toys. Why wouldn't Hasbro or Takara want to reissue the two or them? They are pretty popular too.. :(

kup
27th February 2008, 10:01 AM
In the UK comics you can also see Rodimus Prime whine a lot for the same reasons but its not as bad as the cartoon because he actually gets over it and does what he has to do within the same page of the issue without dwelling on it forever.
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Paulbot
27th February 2008, 10:20 AM
Sunstreaker was rereleased in the Gold boxed Classics back in at the start of the 90s (when I got mine).

STL
27th February 2008, 10:57 AM
I'm going to jump in here and take Rodimus' side. I think it's inevitable that a leader will question themselves when following Optimus. He's the greatest leader in Cybertronian history. I mean -who- would not be second guessing themselves, living in his shadow. It's a tough ask. It's easy to tell him to quit whining but think of it as replacing one the great leaders in history. Napoleon, Caesar, Alexander, Genghis Khan. Without those men, history would never have been the same. It would've been daunting to follow in those footsteps.

I can see people saying he whines but I can see the valid reasons behind it. Optimus is just that much larger than life. He personifies the Autobot cause. He's a legend. All the Autobots know that and immersed in the middle of a war, his shadow will hang over them for a long time. I think any one would be lying if they didn't feel the pressure of leadership.

It's akin to taking the captaincy or coaching position of a sporting club after a successful era. It's a tough ask and people will always be questioning you and you'll be questioning yourself.

I reckon I should start two new fanclubs:
- "Get over the "I can't deal with it now' Ultra Magnus" fan club, and
- "Give Rodimus a break" fan club

:D

Bartrim
27th February 2008, 01:54 PM
I too must side with Rodimus. I have been there. Not leading an army but trying to lead a sports team after they had a great leader and I gotta tell you the is a hell of alot stress involved trying to fill those shoes.

Thats just for a sports team. Can't imagine what it's like for an army.

liegeprime
27th February 2008, 02:19 PM
Putting my two cents in, Me,l Rodimus Prime has a S*%$ toy as Gok said so Hasbro had to Promote him really good. Part of the inadequacy that Rodimus feels as was mentioned by the earlier posts is that OP was indeed a tough act to follow. Also Rodimus isn't cut out to be a leader in the first place, he just fell into the job coz the MAtrix chose him/evolved him, but think of it as a teenager who suddenly woke to be a full pledged adult the next day - he hasnt been done being a young kid then all of a sudden he's the "Leader", that pretty much can crap a persons head and psych them out. Which is what happened to Rodimus.....

on the non serious side :D hes got pretty crappy back up Autos during his time under his command - Kup - the grumpy old bot, Blurr -an energon junkie, UM - he cant deal with a lot of stuff, Arcee- bridge bunny, Perceptor - well he's an annoying git, and then there's Wheelie - as OP said, Who the F*$#@ is this Autobot!( rude awakening of OP:D- not official TF cannon) Also during his time the Dinobots (allegedly the most powerful warriors of the Autos) were a bunch of degenerate retards, why wouldn't you feel inadequate... Oh Springer is alright but he basically stole his girl so he hates his guts... albeit in private hehehehe

MIrage and Sunstreaker - has not seen a reissue since as mentioned by Paul. Plus the fact that Takara claims that the molds was lost during the fire and refuses to do so since the resurgence of a lot of KOs. Which is why it is infuriating why some sites promote KO so much.

GoktimusPrime
27th February 2008, 04:01 PM
Just checking again guys, Was Sunstreaker and Mirage ever reissued at all? I can't seem to find any of them except the original 1980s G1 toys. Why wouldn't Hasbro or Takara want to reissue the two or them? They are pretty popular too..
As Paulbot said Sunstreaker was reissued in 1990 as a Classic. Mirage has never been reissued. HasTak have most likely lost the moulds for these figures hence why we haven't seen them being reissued of late (and poor Mirage has never been reissued).


In the UK comics you can also see Rodimus Prime whine a lot for the same reasons but its not as bad as the cartoon because he actually gets over it and does what he has to do within the same page of the issue without dwelling on it forever.
Precisely! The difference between comic and cartoon Rodimus is that in the comics, Rodimus Prime built a feckin' Space Bridge and got over it! Okay, the mantle/burden of leadership has been thrown upon you and you're following directly in the shadow of the great Optimus Prime yada yada yada - as Autobot leader you need to deal with it! That's what separates a good leader from a poor one, the fact that cartoon Rodimus never quite got over it made him a rather uncharismatic commander.

Think of Hicks from Aliens - started off as a grunt but as the other soldiers in his unit got killed off he ended up being the highest ranking officer and had to take command. Yeah, it totally sucked and he didn't like it, but as a professional soldier he did his duty. That's what comic Rodimus did but cartoon Rodimus faltered in. Rodimus' very brief appearance in the US comics saw a Rodimus Prime being quite similar to John Connor from Terminator - with Unicron successfully destroying Unicron and the Decepticons conquering North America, it was Rodimus Prime who forged a human-Autobot resistance and taught the humans how to fight against Decepticons. Even in death, Rodimus' legacy continued to haunt Galvatron, driving him to insanity (although never that retarded level of insanity that we saw with cartoon Galvatron).

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l248/mdstar31/RodimusPrime2.jpg Get on with it! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KexudBb_oc&feature=related)

Robzy
27th February 2008, 04:21 PM
Think of Hicks from Aliens - started off as a grunt but as the other soldiers in his unit got killed off he ended up being the highest ranking officer and had to take command. Yeah, it totally sucked and he didn't like it, but as a professional soldier he did his duty. That's what comic Rodimus did but cartoon Rodimus faltered in. Rodimus' very brief appearance in the US comics saw a Rodimus Prime being quite similar to John Connor from Terminator [/url]

Wow - Aliens and Terminator... I guess comic Rodimus should thank James Cameron for his character development! :p

GoktimusPrime
27th February 2008, 09:43 PM
well, he's really the kind of 'reluctant hero' archetype who's had the mantle thrust/forced upon him. There plenty of other examples throughout literature such as...

http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/images/rankin-bass-bilbo.jpg Bilbo Baggins

http://www.lordoftheringsonline.net/images/avatars/frodo%5B68%5D.jpg Frodo Baggins

http://members.chello.nl/~h.vogels1/images/avatars/80x80/lotr/sam01.jpg Samwise Gamgee

http://video-ak.allocine.net/blogs/crp/70/70/x/x/users/8/1/9/Z20060223114837820234918/img/1179057379_5_han_solo_tn.jpg Han Solo

http://www.amath-ennin.net/forum/images/avatars/74596945447039b92e0031.jpg Vegeta

http://maxtoons.com/25_Sixshot.jpg Sixshot

...and the list goes on. :)

STL
28th February 2008, 12:01 AM
I think Rodimus did come good in the end. In the Hardest Burden to Bare. I liked that one. Rodimus did show some good leadership qualities too in: Fight or Flee and Only Human.

Soundwarp
28th February 2008, 05:49 AM
:D Brings a smile to my face to read and talk G1.

kup
28th February 2008, 08:12 AM
:D Brings a smile to my face to read and talk G1.

Isn't most of the stuff we talk about G1 and related?
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GoktimusPrime
28th February 2008, 10:30 AM
I think Rodimus did come good in the end. In the Hardest Burden to Bare. I liked that one. Rodimus did show some good leadership qualities too in: Fight or Flee and Only Human.
Yeah but such moments are too few and far between. Charismatic moments should be standard, not exceptional.

Optimus Primal is a better example of answering the unsolicited call to military leadership. He and his crew never wanted to be involved in a war, but circumstances threw them into the Beast Wars. Primal didn't depress himself by making comparisons with Optimus Prime or other Maximal leaders like Lio Convoy or Big Convoy (aka the "One-Robot Army"). He just did his best to answer the call to duty. It wasn't an easy task, and there were many moments were he was physically and emotionally battered - even killed! Hell, even Rattrap got over it better than cartoon Rodimus Prime did! He was quite annoying at first when he was whinging/complaining about their predicament - which is understandable; as he pointed out, they're explorers, not soldiers - but he soon accepted the fact that war was upon them and stepped up to the plate as a true Heroic Maximal(TM).

http://pyresdomain.net/TF/BeastBoxArchive/Japanese/OptimusPrimal(Ape).jpghttp://pyresdomain.net/TF/BeastBoxArchive/Japanese/Rattrap.jpg

JuzMel
28th February 2008, 11:51 AM
Thanks for the answers guys.. Quite a bit to absorb but it's all good. Though I still can't find myself liking Rodimus Prime, I reckon he's still much better off as Hot Rod. But the toy mould of him is pretty good though, it looks good with him standing on the control station.

So I'm guessing the 1990s Reissue Sunstreaker is not the same as the 1980s one? Also how does it look like? Wheeljack is also another favourite character of mine which doesn't seem to have any reissues too, or does he?

Paulbot
28th February 2008, 12:22 PM
The 1990s reissues are pretty much exactly the same as the original toys (except I think no rubsigns and a 1990 copyright stamp on them).

Wheeljack was another of the Classic Heroes released in the early 90s, but like Mirage and Sunstreaker is one Takara hasn't rereleased.

The full list of Autobot cars rereleased in the early 90s (pre-G2) was Wheeljack, Prowl, Sunstreaker, Ironhide, Jazz, Inferno, Sideswipe and Tracks.

kup
28th February 2008, 12:25 PM
Sunstreaker and Wheeljack are sadly among the 'lost molds' toys so an official reissue is highly unlikely.
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GoktimusPrime
28th February 2008, 03:50 PM
The 1990s reissues are pretty much exactly the same as the original toys (except I think no rubsigns and a 1990 copyright stamp on them).
Boxed Classic reissues had rub signs but carded ones didn't.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/rollbar_robot.jpg

STL
28th February 2008, 10:49 PM
Yeah but such moments are too few and far between. Charismatic moments should be standard, not exceptional.

Optimus Primal is a better example of answering the unsolicited call to military leadership. He and his crew never wanted to be involved in a war, but circumstances threw them into the Beast Wars. Primal didn't depress himself by making comparisons with Optimus Prime or other Maximal leaders like Lio Convoy or Big Convoy (aka the "One-Robot Army"). He just did his best to answer the call to duty. It wasn't an easy task, and there were many moments were he was physically and emotionally battered - even killed! Hell, even Rattrap got over it better than cartoon Rodimus Prime did! He was quite annoying at first when he was whinging/complaining about their predicament - which is understandable; as he pointed out, they're explorers, not soldiers - but he soon accepted the fact that war was upon them and stepped up to the plate as a true Heroic Maximal(TM).

http://pyresdomain.net/TF/BeastBoxArchive/Japanese/OptimusPrimal(Ape).jpghttp://pyresdomain.net/TF/BeastBoxArchive/Japanese/Rattrap.jpg

I think that's a grossly unfair comparison.

Primal existed in an era of peace after the Great War. The Autobots and Rodimus exist at a time when the threat has been at it's highest. Not to mention the guilt Hot Rod must feel in Optimus' demise. The Great War is where the titans clashed, where it was lost and won. There was far more at stake. By the time Primal came along, the war was no longer an issue. He was operating a science crew. Sure it was new to him and he adapted but he didn't have a legend hanging over him, a cause to keep fighting for, a legacy to live up to, the fate of the entire Cybertronian race in his hands.

I agree, Mel. I do like the Hot Rod persona a lot better. I think his personality also works a lot better to as he's a springboard that you can bounce other characters off. But I do find it frustrating people knock Rodimus way too often. Put yourselves in his shoes for a moment. It's not an easy job.

dirge
28th February 2008, 10:52 PM
Rodimus is an interesting character, if not always portrayed well.

Optimus Prime is a dull character, not always given enough depth.

Optimus Primal (BW) was a fantastic character.

Optimus Primal (BM) was a nutcase.

(just my take on things!)

autobreadticon
29th February 2008, 09:20 AM
There was a cassette in the episode 'a prime problem' , that was a cassette that could anaylse energy in a energy field.

any other information or toy about this

Also in triple takeover there is an autobot blue mini-van, any information or toy?

Bartrim
29th February 2008, 09:47 AM
The Blue mini-van is Skids. Had a bit of a story in the comics but only appeared in 2 epsidoes of the cartoon.

Can't recall the cassette sorry. I'll have to check it out when I get home

STL
29th February 2008, 09:56 AM
I don't think so. I think it was Windcharger who examined the crystals? Definitely not an Autobot tape as Blaster wasn't even in the episode. Laserbeak and Buzzaw doing reconnaisance/taking pictures of Prime?

JuzMel
29th February 2008, 09:58 AM
I agree, Mel. I do like the Hot Rod persona a lot better. I think his personality also works a lot better to as he's a springboard that you can bounce other characters off. But I do find it frustrating people knock Rodimus way too often. Put yourselves in his shoes for a moment. It's not an easy job.
Yeah true STL, I was watching more of Season 3 cartoons and realised Rodimus does try his best to be a good leader too. Especially in one episode where he short-circuit himself just to get into the matrix. Perhaps he isn't that bad either, so it might not be really fair to compare him to Prime.


There was a cassette in the episode 'a prime problem' , that was a cassette that could anaylse energy in a energy field.
any other information or toy about this
Also in triple takeover there is an autobot blue mini-van, any information or toy?
The cassette was from Blaster's new cassette force I think, I can't remember what they were called. They Autobots created Blaster to counteract with the Decepticons's Soundwave, so of course Blaster had his own cassettes too.

As for the blue minivan, it was unnamed in the cartoon, but it's most likely Autobot Skids, which seems like the most logical explanation.

-----------------------------------------------------------
On another part, I was watchin the episodes on the Quintessons last night. I couldn't understand why it was mentioned that the Quintessons were the one who created the two factions: Military and Consumer robots who in the end turned out to be Decepticons and Autobots respectively? I thought Primus was the one one who created them and over the years the harmony between the both factions deteriorate due to Megatron wanting to seize more power? :confused: Some explanation on that will be good.

STL
29th February 2008, 10:21 AM
On another part, I was watchin the episodes on the Quintessons last night. I couldn't understand why it was mentioned that the Quintessons were the one who created the two factions: Military and Consumer robots who in the end turned out to be Decepticons and Autobots respectively? I thought Primus was the one one who created them and over the years the harmony between the both factions deteriorate due to Megatron wanting to seize more power? :confused: Some explanation on that will be good.

The basic problem comes down to continuity. In the G1 cartoon that is the explanation for the creation of the Autobots and the Decepticons. It's a bit goofy and mundane but basically the Transformers (consumer or military goods) lived in harmony for a while before going into civil war against each other.

In the Marvel G1 comics the transformers were created by Primus himself to counter Unicron. I think this is a better explanation personally.

Paulbot
29th February 2008, 10:22 AM
The cassette is known as "Auto-scout" and it's one of Soundwave's cassettes. There's no toy and that was it's only appearance.

(And thanks to the magic of retcon you now realise those were actually raw Energon crystals in that episode! :) )

There's no in canon reference to say that Blaster was created by the Autobots to counter Soundwave. Hasbro on the otherhand...

STL
29th February 2008, 10:45 AM
There's no in canon reference to say that Blaster was created by the Autobots to counter Soundwave. Hasbro on the otherhand...

Do those voice over recaps at the end of most Season 3 eps count? That's where I think Mel (and myself) got the idea from.

Paulbot
29th February 2008, 11:27 AM
I would say nay, but if they said it there I guess you could take it as fact. I must admit I've never paid any attention to those and never assumed it was much more than filler and advertising material.

I prefer the fan theory that (most of) the second year Autobots were always on the Ark but it took a while to repair them or to excavate the sections where their bodies were, which is why they just started randomly showing up.

GoktimusPrime
29th February 2008, 02:53 PM
Primal existed in an era of peace after the Great War. The Autobots and Rodimus exist at a time when the threat has been at it's highest. Not to mention the guilt Hot Rod must feel in Optimus' demise. The Great War is where the titans clashed, where it was lost and won. There was far more at stake. By the time Primal came along, the war was no longer an issue. He was operating a science crew. Sure it was new to him and he adapted but he didn't have a legend hanging over him, a cause to keep fighting for, a legacy to live up to, the fate of the entire Cybertronian race in his hands.
The stakes of the Beast Wars was pretty high... and... gah... I can't tell you more without spoiling the end of Beast Wars and Beast Machines!! Hurry up and finish watching them! (do a marathon, damnit!!) :p :p

roller
29th February 2008, 03:30 PM
I would say nay, but if they said it there I guess you could take it as fact. I must admit I've never paid any attention to those and never assumed it was much more than filler and advertising material.

I prefer the fan theory that (most of) the second year Autobots were always on the Ark but it took a while to repair them or to excavate the sections where their bodies were, which is why they just started randomly showing up.

I can see how that would work, as the cons could have used the space bridge

kup
29th February 2008, 03:52 PM
STL said earlier that he doesn't want to watch Beast Machines.

STL,

Even though you may come out hating BM as many fans have due to its strange concepts and unexplained character personality 'reformats'. Its not a bad show on its own.

I would recommend for you to watch it but try not to see it as a Transformer fan or it will piss you off. Just try to apreciate it by its own merits and not as something that continues to explore the same story elements of Beast Wars or G1 (although it technically is the continuation :( )

The good thing is that it has very intelligent, mature concepts and a fairly in depth and unique story (although very 'UnTransformers' like). Its pacing can be frustrating at times but it has good action moments and interesting plot twists to keep things interesting.

The 3D Animation is also much superior to Beast Wars and more similar with modern 3D animation.

If you watch it and end up hating it (I would not blame you as I have my own reservations) You can always take turns with Gok in kicking Aaron Archer in the janglies.
________
BONDAGE LEATHER (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/392/leather/videos/1)

Paulbot
29th February 2008, 04:05 PM
Good points Kup, and STL might reconsider once he's finished BWs, but please no further discussion of Beast Machines pros & cons in this thread :)

autobreadticon
29th February 2008, 05:53 PM
will beat up aaron archer and the hasbro persons who authorise BW machines

roller
29th February 2008, 05:56 PM
standing by for torrent of pro BW fans

liegeprime
29th February 2008, 06:22 PM
That cassette is one drone cassette in Soundwaves arsenal of spyware. Its did not have an official toy, as it was used only in that story for that sole purpose ( plus it blew up) and it was a cassette drone done in that way by the animators and writers to keep in line with Soundwaves theme of "effects" and gadgetry.

Now for that Blue van - yep its Skids alright.... personality wise - well he was given more exposure in the comics - hteres about 1 -2 sightings of him I think in the entire cartoon G1 series, thats it. That is why he gets ribbed often in various fanmade photocomics that his special ability is to fade in obscurity :D:D. Fans worldwide actually were quite made aware of his prescence when Tkara chose to reissue him early on (bookseries) and again as a BT and Alt. - I guess he's more famous in Japan. when everyone was expecting more famous characters to be reissued in his stead. But for me I really dont mind, he's a cool toy.

GoktimusPrime
29th February 2008, 08:29 PM
STL said earlier that he doesn't want to watch Beast Machines.
Yeah I know, but in order to discuss the point about BM in question I would also have to divulge later spoiler information for BW, hence why I held back. :p

Anyway, here's Autoscout... :)

http://s90690880.onlinehome.us/jhiaxus/images/technology/cybertoon/autoscout02.jpg

autobreadticon
29th February 2008, 09:00 PM
hasbro or MOST likely some toy company should make this toy....

:rolleyes:

STL
29th February 2008, 10:33 PM
I would say nay, but if they said it there I guess you could take it as fact. I must admit I've never paid any attention to those and never assumed it was much more than filler and advertising material.

I prefer the fan theory that (most of) the second year Autobots were always on the Ark but it took a while to repair them or to excavate the sections where their bodies were, which is why they just started randomly showing up.

Actually, thinking about it I think the voice over recap things only mentioned that Blaster's cassettes were developed to deal with the Decepticon cassettes. Not Blaster himself.

I actually like that theory too. My explanation has grown to be more like BW where their sparks were preserved but they're exterior forms still need repair and all.

G1 Skids is a good toy? I think he's way too flimsy. Really frustrates me as a toy. Cool BT though.

Paulbot
29th February 2008, 10:36 PM
I actually like that theory too. My explanation has grown to be more like BW where their sparks were preserved but they're exterior forms still need repair and all.

That's how the second year cars were introduced in the comics. :)

GoktimusPrime
29th February 2008, 11:11 PM
hasbro or MOST likely some toy company should make this toy....
For legal reasons it would have to be Hasbro or TakaraTOMY (or possibly licensed via HasTak, but I don't see that happening - everyone knows that Hasbro = toy Microsoft ;))

also... would it be financially viable?? What would the demand for such an obscure G1 character be like? Doesn't sound like the most profitable of decisions... :/

It'd be a neat accessory, say if Takara were to ever make a Masterpiece Soundwave. But I don't think it would be viable to manufacture as an independent toy.

Maybe you could get your hands on a Microman MC-08 Battle Bike HG90 and customise it into an Autoscout - the cool thing about using the Battle Bike as the basis for the toy is that it would still transform into a microcassette tape that can fit inside G1 Soundwave! :D

http://www.microforever.com/images/mc8&9-8.jpghttp://www.microforever.com/images/mc8&9-3.jpg

roller
9th March 2008, 05:42 PM
are there any deleted scenes from the tv series?

JuzMel
25th March 2008, 12:59 PM
Cool photos of those characters Gok, sorry I took quite awhile to get back to this posting. With no acquisitions lately, it's easier to move on to the other parts of the forum than to "salivate" at the nice new acquisitons of other members. :p

Anyway, can anyone answer Roller's question?

And not to disagree with the creation of Blaster, but the other reason was probably because Soundwave always spies on them and the Autobots needed Blaster so that he can counteract with the waves from Soundwaves as well? Just like one of the episodes where they were stranded on this island and the people there only sing, everything that comes out from their mouth is a tune!

Paulbot
25th March 2008, 01:10 PM
Deleted scenes from the cartoon? The PDF scripts have some stuff that's not exactly what aired, but different (and probably not recorded) lines mostly.

The closest to deleted scenes would be the Public Service Announcements that if I recall correctly were made but never shown until they were easter eggs in the Armada Video Game.

One of DVD version of TFTM has animated storyboards of deleted movie scenes.

And please don't remind us of Carnage in C-Minor. Why oh why does the closest thing to a musical episode of Transformers have to suck so much!?! :(

GoktimusPrime
25th March 2008, 06:04 PM
IMO the deleted scenes from TFTM are the most interesting as it makes the rest of the movie make more sense.


And not to disagree with the creation of Blaster, but the other reason was probably because Soundwave always spies on them and the Autobots needed Blaster so that he can counteract with the waves from Soundwaves as well? Just like one of the episodes where they were stranded on this island and the people there only sing, everything that comes out from their mouth is a tune!
Blaster's creation was never shown. In the G1 cartoon - like a lot of characters, just "appeared" seemingly out of nowhere, i.e.: no explained origin. In the G1 comics Blaster was part of an Autobot resistence cell led by Perceptor on Cybertron - their group came to reinforce the Autobots on Earth after the battle of Darkmount.

In the cartoon Blaster was often portrayed as being the opposite number of Soundwave, but not in the comics.

Toywise both Soundwave and Blaster came from Takara's New Microman Micro Change series. Obviously Hasbro decided to use Cassetteman for Soundwave and Radicasse Robo for Blaster.

http://www.microforever.com/images/MC10cassetteman-1.jpghttp://www.microforever.com/images/catarog84.jpg
Above: (L) Pre-TF Soundwave Cassetteman, (R) Pre-TF Blaster Radicasse Robo (also pictured is Microscope Robo, Pre-TF Perceptor, 'reissued' in Transformers as Magnificus)

dirge
25th March 2008, 06:53 PM
IIRC, there are very few actual deleted scenes from the G1 cartoon series. There just wasn't a whole lot animated and left on the cutting room floor - the stuff taken out usually didn't make it that far.

I seem to recall learning this from a DVD menu, but I have about 40 TF discs and I couldn't tell you which one it is. Most likely one of my (Region 1) G1 discs.