TF Beast Hunters Episode 10 - Minus One

[Ae-Evolution]

Not bad of an episode IMO, some new unexpected things happen.

One thing I've noticed is Optimus always relies on his mini gun, does he even have a sword like on the figure? If not, why were we given swords and not mini guns?

[MayzaPrime]

It was a good episode, I loved the Soundwave part (dont want to give any spoilders away)

Optimus used his hand guns in this episode.

[GoktimusPrime]

One thing I've noticed is Optimus always relies on his mini gun, does he even have a sword like on the figure? If not, why were we given swords and not mini guns?
The Star Sabre was seized by the Decepticons back in Episode #55 ("Prey"). It was last seen in episode #60 ("Thirst") when the vampiric Silas-Breakdown entered the room where seized items were held, including Airachnid whom he ended up releasing.

I quite like the fact that BH OP was given the Star Sabre. It's a 5mm post weapon, so it's also compatible with a lot of other toys, including previous TFP Optimus Prime Voyager figures. So you can have your FE or PRiD OP hold it if you want. As for why the toy doesn't have mini-guns... my guess is that the addition of mini-guns was a later feature to the character's animation model. Remember that it takes a jolly long time for Hasbro/TakaraTOMY to develop and produce a toy, and at the time they were doing it they would have been relying on whatever the most current incarnation of the animation model was available at the time. It's possible that the animators decided to add the mini-guns in afterwards, and by that time it wasn't possible to add the weapons onto the toy. Besides, there's nothing stopping you from just pretending that the guns he comes with is a gatling gun (just imagine that it some kind of casing that houses all those spinning gun barrels). Or maybe you can find another gatling/mini-gun weapon that has a 5mm post (I can't think of any off hand). Either way, this is just another reason why I don't like it when Transformers are designed as show characters first and toys second -- IMO Optimus Prime should've just been designed as a toy first, and the animators should then just use the available toy's weapons in the show. Beast Wars is a great example of a TV show with a high level of toy accurate show models, but I especially like Transmetal Optimus Primal because the animators actually gave him an additional "artillery mode" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Dgo3aiCAJFI#t=41s) which isn't an official mode on the toy, but the toy can transform into it! :D We know that Hasbro actually sent Mainframe samples of the toys for them to scan into their computers and build CGI models from, but TM OP also demonstrates that the animators also played with the toys and didn't just stare at them! :D

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/spoileralert.jpg

s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

Wow... the new Autobot base is surprisingly incredibly unguarded! :eek: Even if Laserbeak has some kind of stealth that eludes radar... no manned watchtower?? Considering that:
1. The new base is nothing more than an above ground hangar;
2. The old base which was buried in a mountain in the middle of nowhere was eventually discovered by Decepticons;
3. The sake of Earth is at stake;
...you'd think the U.S. government might be willing to invest some more substantial military presence at that base. Fowler attacks Soundwave with a fire extinguisher. Are you for real? The guy's like a federal agent, right? Why isn't he carrying a concealed gun? (sure, it wouldn't have done anything to Soundwave, but still... better odds than running at a giant robot with a fire extinguisher!)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/facepalm_primeratchet.jpg

So we finally get to hear Soundwave speak, and we actually hear Optimus Prime say "transform and roll out" too. Although IIRC he says, "Everyone else, transform and roll out," and not "Autobots, transform and roll out." I've heard a rumour that there's some crappy legal reason as to why Optimus Prime can't say "Autobots transform and roll out," and this sounds like their way of trying to work around it without getting into trouble (I don't know if this is actually true or not).

[Gasaraki]

I didn't realize we were avoiding spoilers in these threads? Seemed like the norm was to expect it to be rife with spoilers without warning. Anyway, SPOILERS AHEAD.

IMO, a better and more enjoyable episode than the last, especially considering implications of series direction...

Pros:
- Some great lines: "To rule only one would be to never truly rule either", "Like the way you own that voicebox Ratchet slapped in your throat", "He would merely want to harness the power... in order to... create one! Oh my!".
- Prime vs Predaking was more realistic IMO than the battle from the last episode. And it is GREAT to see that Predaking is not neutered by Prime.
- I like the twist in direction back towards the Omega Lock and restoration of Cybertron.... at least this is achievable in terms of what they are willing/able to animate, as compared to coming up with a veritable army of Predacons.
- Soundwave speaks.
- The little horror movie homage when Soundwave approaches Ratchet :)
- More gorgeous animation, e.g. the shot of Nemesis in orbit.

Cons:
- Laserbeak owning 3 Autobots like they're all amateurs. Yes he had the element of surprise, but hey!
- Fowler using a fire extinguisher and nicely announcing himself with a yell as he hopelessly goes in to, urrr, stub Soundwave's toe. I guess you may consider this a positive point if it was meant to be comedy, but the context seem to suggest they were being serious!! I mean, really??


As for why the toy doesn't have mini-guns... my guess is that the addition of mini-guns was a later feature to the character's animation model. Remember that it takes a jolly long time for Hasbro/TakaraTOMY to develop and produce a toy, and at the time they were doing it they would have been relying on whatever the most current incarnation of the animation model was available at the time.

Yep, agreed... especially when considering toys are released ahead of the episodes being aired (well, BH ones anyway - RiD came out after season one began). Take a look at how different the accessory set for the Voyager vs Ultimate versions of BH Prime is.... Ae-Evolution could ask the question the other way around just as well, i.e. why doesn't the cartoon show missile launchers and a giant rotating tea dispenser on his back?? :D OK, so maybe this is some of the foreshadowed Beast relic weaponry, which I now very much doubt we will see in animation.


Or maybe you can find another gatling/mini-gun weapon that has a 5mm post (I can't think of any off hand)

How about the one that comes with iGear Cogz!!? Har har har... :cool:

[griffin]

I don't get it either, it's a review topic, so of course it's going to have spoilers.

Seriously, does anyone read reviews of anything, expecting not to be spoiled? And if so, why are you reading a review?

News and Review sections are where you can reveal anything you want, in its own relevant topic.
Spoiler warnings are only required in other sections.

[griffin]

How come Predaking (and the Autobots in a Season 1 episode) freeze up when in the snow before, but this time they are in the Antarctic (which should be the coldest place) no one freezes up at all, even after being exposed to the cold for quite some time.

So Soundwave finally speaks (with Frank Welker doing it), and Bumblebee is hinted at wanting his voice back... hopefully that comes true and that "gimmick" of Bumblebees being mute can finally end, FOREVER.

[Kazza]

This episode sets up a good prelude to a showdown between megs vs optimus vs predaking on cybertron. Least that's how i see it going.

[lj7369]

Soundwave's line made my week.

[Sinnertwin]

That smiley face and the Autobots' reaction, awesome. Soundwave is superior



Seriously, does anyone read reviews of anything, expecting not to be spoiled? And if so, why are you reading a review?


Couldn't have said it better.

[Lint]

I don't get it either, it's a review topic, so of course it's going to have spoilers.

Seriously, does anyone read reviews of anything, expecting not to be spoiled? And if so, why are you reading a review?

News and Review sections are where you can reveal anything you want, in its own relevant topic.
Spoiler warnings are only required in other sections.

I sometimes click-in to see if theres a link to a stream of the episode rather than hunting it down myself. So omission of spoilers is always appreciated for the first post, I don't go reading the rest of the topic.

Aside from the humour/fanservice this episode was a little predicatable.

[griffin]

I sometimes click-in to see if theres a link to a stream of the episode rather than hunting it down myself. So omission of spoilers is always appreciated for the first post, I don't go reading the rest of the topic.


That's why I still prefer to leave spoilers out of titles, and if starting a review topic, I'd just note the basic details in the first post.
(I also try to include a poll, so that people can have a look at how it is being received, without looking at the posts for the comments and seeing spoilers.)

[liegeprime]

So much for interrogation, they should've just chopped off his limbs first and connected his CPU while he is unconscious that way they can peruse all the data in his hard drive. instead they have to have him "talk".... he doesn't talk... he just sulks....geez

[ILikeSoundwave]

So much for interrogation, they should've just chopped off his limbs first and connected his CPU while he is unconscious that way they can peruse all the data in his hard drive. instead they have to have him "talk".... he doesn't talk... he just sulks....geez

Didn't Soundwave erase the data?

[liegeprime]

Didn't Soundwave erase the data?

yeah coz they waited for him to wake up and ask him... had they just rip his head off and attached it a computer of some sort and sifted thru his cpu he wouldn't have had the chance to do so...

[GoktimusPrime]

yeah coz they waited for him to wake up and ask him... had they just rip his head off and attached it a computer of some sort and sifted thru his cpu he wouldn't have had the chance to do so...
...and that's what separates the Autobots from the Decepticons. ;)

Speaking of Decepticons, the moment where Shockwave gets mad at Starscream and attacks him as payback for not forewarning him about the Autobots' attack... umm... isn't revenge an "illogical emotion" for Shockwave? That moment seemed really out of character for him. Megatron declares that Shockwave's life-long project of resurrecting the Predacons is to be scrapped in order to preserve the Decepticons and Shockwave's like, "seems legit bro, kay," but then when Starscream decides to put Shockwave in jeopardy, he's like, "Shockwave mad! Shockwave kill j00z!" Wha?

Unless Shockwave reasoned that it was logical to terminate Starscream to prevent him from betraying him again in the future... but then given Starscream's notoriety, surely Shockwave would've offed him the moment he laid eyes on him if he was going along that line of thought (especially given the way he backstabbed him back on Cybertron).
Starscream: "Shockwave!"
Shockwave: after killing Starscream, he turns to explain his actions to Megatron "Starscream had attempted to have me terminated on Cybertron. It was only logical that I terminate him before he has the chance to betray us again in the future."
Megatron: "Seems legit bro, 'kay."

[Bidoofdude]

I liked Soundwave in this episode and he's become one of my favourite characters over time.

Didn't notice Ratchet's HYEP HYEP until watching for a second time though... :p

I noticed and I think some others have, that Shockwave is becoming a little hesitant in the whole take over 2 worlds thing. This could get interesting. ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

Didn't notice Ratchet's HYEP HYEP until watching for a second time though... :p
Pretty sure Ratchet's been saying it since Season 1. :o


I noticed and I think some others have, that Shockwave is becoming a little hesitant in the whole take over 2 worlds thing. This could get interesting. ;)
Shockwave probably sees it as a needless expenditure of resources. Conquering a single planet would already be massively resource intensive. It probably would be more logical to focus on conquering Cybertron first, then after stablising their hold there, then consider if it would be worth the cost of conquering Earth.

In G1 the Decepticons had Ratbat as their fuel auditor who would approve or cancel missions depending on their cost efficiency. Trypticon was ordered to stop fighting the Dinobots and withdraw because the mission had exceeded the parameters of its allocated fuel budget. If the conquest/subjugation of two worlds is going to run them into deficit, then logic dictates that they not proceed with such an audacious venture. Shockwave may be forced to behave like his G1 counterpart and usurp Megatron, as logic dictates. ;)

[Bidoofdude]

Shockwave probably sees it as a needless expenditure of resources. Conquering a single planet would already be massively resource intensive. It probably would be more logical to focus on conquering Cybertron first, then after stablising their hold there, then consider if it would be worth the cost of conquering Earth.

In G1 the Decepticons had Ratbat as their fuel auditor who would approve or cancel missions depending on their cost efficiency. Trypticon was ordered to stop fighting the Dinobots and withdraw because the mission had exceeded the parameters of its allocated fuel budget. If the conquest/subjugation of two worlds is going to run them into deficit, then logic dictates that they not proceed with such an audacious venture. Shockwave may be forced to behave like his G1 counterpart and usurp Megatron, as logic dictates. ;)

Comics, right? Gotta get on those. :p

Honestly, I'm starting to get a little sick of the whole "logical" thing. It was cool at first, but now it's getting pretty old.

[liegeprime]

...and that's what separates the Autobots from the Decepticons. ;)

Speaking of Decepticons, the moment where Shockwave gets mad at Starscream and attacks him as payback for not forewarning him about the Autobots' attack... umm... isn't revenge an "illogical emotion" for Shockwave? That moment seemed really out of character for him. Megatron declares that Shockwave's life-long project of resurrecting the Predacons is to be scrapped in order to preserve the Decepticons and Shockwave's like, "seems legit bro, kay," but then when Starscream decides to put Shockwave in jeopardy, he's like, "Shockwave mad! Shockwave kill j00z!" Wha?

Unless Shockwave reasoned that it was logical to terminate Starscream to prevent him from betraying him again in the future... but then given Starscream's notoriety, surely Shockwave would've offed him the moment he laid eyes on him if he was going along that line of thought (especially given the way he backstabbed him back on Cybertron).
Starscream: "Shockwave!"
Shockwave: after killing Starscream, he turns to explain his actions to Megatron "Starscream had attempted to have me terminated on Cybertron. It was only logical that I terminate him before he has the chance to betray us again in the future."
Megatron: "Seems legit bro, 'kay."

Stupid separatism :p. bah unacceptable, this is war people!!! I mean bots!!!

Oh and that's laid an eye, Gok. Shockers has but one optic :p;)

[GoktimusPrime]

Comics, right? Gotta get on those. :p
Yup. :) G1 cartoon Shockwave was nothing more than a sycophant who demonstrated mindless (yet stagnantly incompetent) loyalty to Megatron, as wonderfully demonstrated in "Shockwave's Burden." (<---parental advisory; contains coarse language)


Honestly, I'm starting to get a little sick of the whole "logical" thing. It was cool at first, but now it's getting pretty old.
It is overdone. The original G1 comic Shockwave was so much better because he didn't go about making a point about everything being logical all the time... it's just simply how he operated. He was a lot like a really malicious Vulcan (or an emotionless Romulan :p). Vulcans don't constantly have to remind other characters or the audience that they are devoted to logic over emotions, you just know they are by watching them behave - it was the same with Shockwave. TFP Shockwave just rubs it in your face too much. Also, logic was as much G1 Shockwave's greatest weakness as it was his greatest strength.

Same with Ultra Magnus and his by-the-bookness. With IDW Magnus it didn't need to be explicitly stated, you just know by watching the character.
e.g. (More Than Meets The Eye #18 spoiler ahead)
"You're an Autobot, I presume?"
"I am, yes."
"Here."
"No, no, I really..."
"I never wear it. Please. It's too big for me."
"That's no excuse. You should put it on."
^that last line was subtle enough that I actually missed its meaning the first time around, then at the end of the issue it hit me like a freakin' M. Night Shyamalan film climax and I was like, "Holy scrap!"; in retrospect that's one of the most poignant lines of the whole ish! :D

Beast Wars also occasionally had subtleties like that too. But the nuances in characters like Shockwave and Ultra Magnus are about as subtle as a slap to the face with a live trout. Although arguably not as tediously annoying as Beast Machines' "The seeds of the future lie buried in great responsibility." (sic) :p


Stupid separatism :p. bah unacceptable, this is war people!!! I mean bots!!!
G1 Dai Atlas offers you a cuddle. ;) It's somewhat ironic how different G1 and IDW Dai Atlas are from each other... one relishing a fight to the finish, the other desperately seeking an escape from conflict (he's more like Fortress Maximus in G1 (both the comics and cartoon (re: Cerebros - Fort Max didn't seem to have his own autonomous sentience in the cartoon)).


Oh and that's laid an eye, Gok. Shockers has but one optic :p;)
Fix'd ;)

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

So far, I have been mostly disappointed with Beast Hunters with it being very predictable and rather drab. Season 2 of Prime had m waiting for each ep to show. This one, I am certainly in no hurry to watch.



Speaking of Decepticons, the moment where Shockwave gets mad at Starscream and attacks him as payback for not forewarning him about the Autobots' attack... umm... isn't revenge an "illogical emotion" for Shockwave?

BH Shockers is a very emotive chap. Right after he rocked up, he had bitter emotions about being left on Cybertron. The only logic he seems to display is that which he has just pointed out as being 'logical.' BAH.

The Autobots never had a chance against Soundwave in interrogation stakes. Remember what Starscream did to Wheeljack in the earlier episodes? What are the Autobots going to do to Soundwave? Make him some cake or something? They should have just let Wheeljack have some fun.

Is it just me or does the VA for Predaking just sound bored? Very poor performance IMO and doesn't fit at all.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Like everyone else - LOVED it when Soundwave spoke - rocked my jocks!

Is Lazerbeak becoming more than just a drone? Seems perfectly capable of working independently of Soundwave and his eyes seem far more 'glowy', as if something is going on there.

Only 2 eps to go - why did they have to make is so good now?

Guessing it's all going to come to a head on Cybertron for good or bad, would be nice to see a big showdown with everyone from both sides involved in a proper big battle

[Bidoofdude]

Is Lazerbeak becoming more than just a drone? Seems perfectly capable of working independently of Soundwave and his eyes seem far more 'glowy', as if something is going on there.


I smell call of the primitives! :rolleyes: (Although ironically Laserbeak, Buzzsaw and Ravage didn't take part in the original G1 episode ;):p)

[GoktimusPrime]

(Although ironically Laserbeak, Buzzsaw and Ravage didn't take part in the original G1 episode ;):p)
Their toys were no longer in production by Season 3. ;)

[BigTransformerTrev]

I smell call of the primitives! :rolleyes: (Although ironically Laserbeak, Buzzsaw and Ravage didn't take part in the original G1 episode ;):p)


Their toys were no longer in production by Season 3. ;)

Ravage was in the ep, and Overkill & Slugfest had their big & only scene (of about 3 seconds :p)

[GoktimusPrime]

Overkill and Slugfest were new toys, so that makes sense. Ravage was just cinematically photobombing. :p

[UltraMarginal]

Wow... the new Autobot base is surprisingly incredibly unguarded! :eek: Even if Laserbeak has some kind of stealth that eludes radar... no manned watchtower?? Considering that:
1. The new base is nothing more than an above ground hangar;
2. The old base which was buried in a mountain in the middle of nowhere was eventually discovered by Decepticons;
3. The sake of Earth is at stake;
...you'd think the U.S. government might be willing to invest some more substantial military presence at that base.

It makes a lot of sense, I think. They needed something they could get in a hurry, to replace the old base, it's part of an existing installation, so even though we may not have seen it, the security of the existing base would be in operation. And what's better than hiding in plain site, who would expect that.;)
They stated in this episode or the previous one that they have the same shielding in place that they had at their previous base, making it impossible to locate them through scanning.
The only way Laserbeak was able to find the base was to follow Fowler for a day and then figure it out after closer reconnaisance.




Fowler attacks Soundwave with a fire extinguisher. Are you for real? The guy's like a federal agent, right? Why isn't he carrying a concealed gun? (sure, it wouldn't have done anything to Soundwave, but still... better odds than running at a giant robot with a fire extinguisher!)



Cons:
- Fowler using a fire extinguisher and nicely announcing himself with a yell as he hopelessly goes in to, urrr, stub Soundwave's toe. I guess you may consider this a positive point if it was meant to be comedy, but the context seem to suggest they were being serious!! I mean, really??


I think this is a running joke, there are several places in the series where Jack picks up a fire extinguisher for exactly the same purpose, not always against giant robots, but you get the idea. We also haven't seen any conventional weapons in this show at all, it might be necessary to avoid a higher rating.


So much for interrogation, they should've just chopped off his limbs first and connected his CPU while he is unconscious that way they can peruse all the data in his hard drive. instead they have to have him "talk".... he doesn't talk... he just sulks....geez


...and that's what separates the Autobots from the Decepticons. ;)

^
What he said. That was never going to end well. I thought the smiley face was a little out of character, but Soundwave talking was a great touch, I kind of expected something more important for his first words though.


Speaking of Decepticons, the moment where Shockwave gets mad at Starscream and attacks him as payback for not forewarning him about the Autobots' attack... umm... isn't revenge an "illogical emotion" for Shockwave? That moment seemed really out of character for him. Megatron declares that Shockwave's life-long project of resurrecting the Predacons is to be scrapped in order to preserve the Decepticons and Shockwave's like, "seems legit bro, kay," but then when Starscream decides to put Shockwave in jeopardy, he's like, "Shockwave mad! Shockwave kill j00z!" Wha?


BH Shockers is a very emotive chap. Right after he rocked up, he had bitter emotions about being left on Cybertron. The only logic he seems to display is that which he has just pointed out as being 'logical.' BAH.


The shockwave portrayed in the comics over the last few years has been more emotional, he's had logical processing, but his reaction to events beyond his control has been less than entirely rational. and some of his actions (grimlock in the lead up to the FOC) have appeared logical but seem to me to be fuelled by extreme self importance and egotism. Shockwave might be logical, but he's definitely not balanced, I like the self contradiction there.



I noticed and I think some others have, that Shockwave is becoming a little hesitant in the whole take over 2 worlds thing. This could get interesting. ;)

That's a very interesting point,


Shockwave may be forced to behave like his G1 counterpart and usurp Megatron, as logic dictates. ;)
though I don't think he'll have much opportunity to usurp megatron, or the guts he's too loyal. He is probably Loyal to Cybertron First though, very interesting. ..




Is it just me or does the VA for Predaking just sound bored? Very poor performance IMO and doesn't fit at all.

I love it, the uncivilised uncontrollable beast has an extremely well spoken, almost British bot mode voice. Awesome. It reminds the others, that there is more intelligence and control here than previously expected. It makes the character much more threatening.



I'm really enjoying this series as a whole and this season has been great, the fight scenes visceral and pretty good story telling.

I just wish there were more beasts to add some credence to the toy line. I have a lot of the beasts but for the moment, I'm struggling to care about them.

[GoktimusPrime]

It makes a lot of sense, I think. They needed something they could get in a hurry, to replace the old base, it's part of an existing installation, so even though we may not have seen it, the security of the existing base would be in operation. And what's better than hiding in plain site, who would expect that.;)
They stated in this episode or the previous one that they have the same shielding in place that they had at their previous base, making it impossible to locate them through scanning.
The only way Laserbeak was able to find the base was to follow Fowler for a day and then figure it out after closer reconnaisance.
Alright, but surely they could've installed some basic form of radar. The base clearly has US military personnel stationed there... surely someone would be on guard duty. Someone who might notice a squadron of incoming aircraft.

Talk about your Pearl Harbours... :rolleyes:


I think this is a running joke, there are several places in the series where Jack picks up a fire extinguisher for exactly the same purpose, not always against giant robots, but you get the idea. We also haven't seen any conventional weapons in this show at all, it might be necessary to avoid a higher rating.
Yeah but with Jack it worked. He's a kid - he's not even old enough to own a gun, let alone carry and operate one. It's a lot less plausible with a military officer/special agent on an army base. As for the rating, just have him produce a gun that isn't based on a real gun. Worked for MECH, right?


I love it, the uncivilised uncontrollable beast has an extremely well spoken, almost British bot mode voice. Awesome. It reminds the others, that there is more intelligence and control here than previously expected. It makes the character much more threatening.

It does sound like a British accent to me. There are forms of American English which uses received pronunciation too (e.g. BW Megatron's accent is received American). Either way, received pronunciation in English gives it a sense of prestige which, in villains, can often make them sound even more menacing than if they spoke with unreceived pronunciation.