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Kranix
23rd January 2014, 10:54 AM
I have just received my MISB Commemorative G1 Silverstreak from the States. Looks great with the other cars. This now leaves me with a quandary. I have over the last 5 years been hunting down all the reissues of 1984 and 1985 Transformers as MISB items to complement my existing transformers I had as a child. Silverstreak was the last of transformers I needed with the exception of the following:

All 5 Dinobots

Wheeljack
Mirage
Sunstreaker

Huffer
Windcharger
Cosmos
Gears

Now I have enjoyed the fact that every transformer I have owned has been new in the box to me, I am not looking for second hand versions and do display my Transformers.

I believe I can get the remaining minibots in one swoop via a commemorative reissue package that I have been keeping an eye out for even though its like unicorn poo but with the Dinobots and the three remaining 1984 cars my reading tells me that the molds are lost and you wont ever be able to buy these as reissues.

So I have two choices.

1. I commit the unthinkable and buy KO versions of the Dinobots and the cars

or

2. Pray to God/ Allah/ Buddha / Ganesh that these Transformers are reissued


Obviously the second choice is unlikely, so is it worth buying the KOs do you think? Are they any good? Or should I cut here and just be happy with what I have?

Thanks

Sinnertwin
23rd January 2014, 11:14 AM
They're KO's. They're crap. Nothing beats the originals.

The cars & Dinobots, Wheeljack, Sunstreaker, Grimlock, Sludge & Snarl were all reissued in the 90's as Classics -these gold boxes haven't KO'd. That's what i'd be keeping an eye out for
Apart from a mailaway, Mirage was never reissued.

As for the Minibots; You're right. With the exception of Windcharger, the others can all be found in the TFC #12. IIRC, the last time Windcharger was reissued was in 2003 as a keychain by Fun4All -that's my G1 version. I just took the chain off.

5FDP
23rd January 2014, 11:24 AM
With the new movie coming out and the storyline centered on at least 5 of the characters in your list, there is a slight chance they may see an official release. The same happened with Devastator after ROTF. Many believed that Takara wouldn't go there because he had already been KO'd several times over, but never say never. I have my fingers crossed for you.

Kranix
23rd January 2014, 11:30 AM
They're KO's. They're crap. Nothing beats the originals.

The cars & Dinobots, Wheeljack, Sunstreaker, Grimlock, Sludge & Snarl were all reissued in the 90's as Classics -these gold boxes haven't KO'd. That's what i'd be keeping an eye out for
Apart from a mailaway, Mirage was never reissued.

As for the Minibots; You're right. With the exception of Windcharger, the others can all be found in the TFC #12. IIRC, the last time Windcharger was reissued was in 2003 as a keychain by Fun4All -that's my G1 version. I just took the chain off.


I actually have the Classics Jazz that I bought in the 90s (plus the recent encore) but I know that MISB versions of even these will be well out of my price range!

Thanks for the tip on the Keychain version of Windcharger, I will look for that one.

Kranix
23rd January 2014, 11:31 AM
With the new movie coming out and the storyline centered on at least 5 of the characters in your list, there is a slight chance they may see an official release. The same happened with Devastator after ROTF. Many believed that Takara wouldn't go there because he had already been KO'd several times over, but never say never. I have my fingers crossed for you.

That's a very good point! Something to consider actually. Thanks also for the the kind thoughts! :cool:

GoktimusPrime
24th January 2014, 08:53 AM
B> Pray to Primus that they're reissued. And if they're not, you can still maintain your pride and honour as a collector that you don't own KOs. That's something you can't put a monetary value on.

Alternatively you could buy loose G1 versions as "placeholders" and sell them off in the unlikely event that they are ever reissued (or you happen to find original G1s MISB that you can verify as being legit)

Trent
24th January 2014, 06:27 PM
KOs suck. Hard pressed to find a KO supporter here. Don't support them ;)

Hursticon
24th January 2014, 06:30 PM
KOs suck. Hard pressed to find a KO supporter here. Don't support them ;)

Ditto. :cool:

theshape
24th January 2014, 06:55 PM
Get loose vintage. Cheap (mostly) and classic. Cant go wrong

GoktimusPrime
24th January 2014, 11:22 PM
Hard pressed to find a KO supporter here.
'Cos people here have standards. ;) :D :cool:

1orion2many
25th January 2014, 12:36 AM
I don't buy ko's and in gerneral I don't believe people should support the manufacturers of these but I'm also not going to look down on someone who is unable to afford the originals and would just like to experience the molds of the older TF's.
My opinion varies depending what mood I'm in lol:D

Sky Shadow
25th January 2014, 06:16 AM
Rather than buying knockoffs, just patiently hunt down Dinobots and the three Autobot cars in good condition. (Also, if you want a Windcharger without a hook on his bumper, do the same for him.) It's tricky though, because even then you need to ensure you're not accidentally buying loose knockoffs or KO accessories from a swindling seller. And, to complete 1985 you'd also need three Powerdashers, three Omnibots and at least four Mini-spies if you don't have them from childhood. Good luck!

ChlorHex
25th January 2014, 01:24 PM
Wouldn't touch KOs as their quality is inferior and you will notice the difference.
You'll realise that it's a waste of money in the end.
Keep with the originals and continue the bot hunt... That's where the fun is at :)
Just get a loose mint stickers unapplied piece.

SMHFConvoy
25th January 2014, 02:28 PM
Look buying a KO to fill the gap in your collection isn't really ideal. The plastic quality isn't great and there's going to be some deformity in the mold. The only reason I buy the occasional KO is to customise.

BTW Kranix I have a loose G1 Slag, no weapons and the joints are bit loose, if you're interested PM me.

Slag
25th January 2014, 07:26 PM
no

5FDP
28th January 2014, 08:35 AM
I don't buy into the whole morality issue of KO's or salute the flag of Hasbro and I've never had a quality issue with KO's I have owned or played with. An argument can be made that the plastic quality of newer Hasbro Transformers have a KO feel to them as well (see FOC Combaticons), however as you've stated you're after G1 so this is a moot point. My only problem with them is when they're passed-off as vintage to collectors at a marked-up price. At the end of the day, it's your collection. Buy whatever the hell you want and are comfortable with :)

Kranix
28th January 2014, 01:15 PM
BTW Kranix I have a loose G1 Slag, no weapons and the joints are bit loose, if you're interested PM me.

Thanks for the offer but Ironically I do have an original G1 slag but he is looking a little abused so I don't display him with the other bots, he hides away in a box with a few other childhood Transformers that didn't survive as well as some of my others that do get displayed. Might fix him up one day.

Kranix
28th January 2014, 01:19 PM
Thanks to all the posters who offered advice, however hunting these rare figures down as loose items does not sound appealing to me at all, I would most likely mistakenly end up with KOs anyway, lol. I've loved buying the reissues as brand new boxed items and opening them myself to display, I don't think I would get the pleasure from the oldies anyway, better left on the market for those who will appreciate them. So I think I just wait and see what happens with further reissues and concentrate more on MP figures.

Thanks again everyone :)

tron07
28th January 2014, 03:31 PM
I wouldnt mind getting a KO to play and give away to some young kids/nephew/cousins/etc while having a original one in MISB for my collection. Saw some some KO movie BB and Prime which looks quite good when I was in Bangkok.

KO for collection is a NO NO for me.

Kranix
28th January 2014, 04:03 PM
Interesting thoughts. I only consider a KO if there is no chance of an official release. I open all my Transformers and as long as I can get a brand new version I will pay extra for the genuine one and not even consider a KO. Thus why I was contemplating only the G1 Transformers where its reported that the mold is lost and thus cant be re-issued.

Bidoofdude
28th January 2014, 05:01 PM
I'd say no on the KOs. They make good display pieces, but there's little heart or effort shown in it. I don't exactly mind KOs being made at really really low prices, as it can benefit someone who can't make up the cash to buy an official one. As already said, I'm not going to look down on or shame someone for buying a KO if they absolutely need to with their current financial sitatuation, as I sort of understand, not getting much money myself, still an adolescent. However, you may be able to get a loose placeholder, as Gok said, for a lower price, which is nice. :)

From the price you can usually tell it's a KO, which gives you some benefit.

However, what I hate and absolutely despise, is the selling of KOs at exorbitant prices, being pushed as the real thing. Honestly, from scouting eBay for various G1 figures, some MIB or MISB toys, such as Shockwave, you can tell when something's a knockoff, being below about $120, which is way too much for a KO and too low for the real thing, usually.

You see, MIB and MISB G1 figures usually command EXTRA high prices, well into $500 in some cases, which I honestly do not see as worth it anyway.:p The thing is, some people put KOs up at these same extra high prices, which can fool someone already well aware of the usual prices for KOs and legitimate figures, thinking that the high price must be indicative of it being totally legit.

This is why I'd never go to eBay for G1 figures unless they are loose and complete from a trusted source, as you can never be too sure on what people can do to mess around with you. I personally buy reissue toys of G1 figures anyway, unless that figure has not being reissued, in which I'd hope for HasTak do make one or look at some trusted sources, such as Transformerland, to find what I'm looking for.

I'm not exactly the best one in terms of experience, but this is just my 2c. ;):)

griffin
28th January 2014, 07:49 PM
I recommend against it, but personally, I would still turn a blind eye to people buying KOs, provided it's ONLY EVER for personal usage (customising or temporary replacements for the real things for when they can afford them or if they are ever reissued)... and NEVER RESOLD, as someone somewhere will end up thinking it is the real thing and try to sell it as such (or intentionally sell it as a real thing knowing it isn't).
This is because, just because I was able to afford the real things when they were out, I don't want to deprive someone else of immediate gratification if they intend to buy the real thing when they can afford to.
But it doesn't mean I'd ever publicly promote this, because it would encourage more demand for KOs, encouraging people to Knock Off other figures.... and they are getting more and more accurate with each one. :(

Bidoofdude
28th January 2014, 09:09 PM
I recommend against it, but personally, I would still turn a blind eye to people buying KOs, provided it's ONLY EVER for personal usage (customising or temporary replacements for the real things for when they can afford them or if they are ever reissued)... and NEVER RESOLD, as someone somewhere will end up thinking it is the real thing and try to sell it as such (or intentionally sell it as a real thing knowing it isn't).
This is because, just because I was able to afford the real things when they were out, I don't want to deprive someone else of immediate gratification if they intend to buy the real thing when they can afford to.
But it doesn't mean I'd ever publicly promote this, because it would encourage more demand for KOs, encouraging people to Knock Off other figures.... and they are getting more and more accurate with each one. :(

^This pretty much sums up my stance.

GoktimusPrime
28th January 2014, 10:33 PM
While purchasing KOs isn't illegal, selling them is - irrespective of whether or not you inform buyers that they're fake. You cannot even be in possession of a counterfeit for the purposes of trade or manufacture, thus even attempting to sell KOs in your possession may be unlawful, regardless of whether you actually sell it or not. If you're keeping it purely for personal usage and you make no attempt to sell it, then you're not committing an offence AFAIK. As I understand it, an indictable offence can carry a penalty of up to 5 years imprisonment.
(Reference: Trade Marks Act 1995 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2013C00143))

SMHFConvoy
29th January 2014, 07:20 AM
*cough* scaled up cyberverse BH bulkhead does look pretty good *cough* :o :o

5FDP
29th January 2014, 08:03 AM
While purchasing KOs isn't illegal, selling them is - irrespective of whether or not you inform buyers that they're fake. You cannot even be in possession of a counterfeit for the purposes of trade or manufacture, thus even attempting to sell KOs in your possession may be unlawful, regardless of whether you actually sell it or not. If you're keeping it purely for personal usage and you make no attempt to sell it, then you're not committing an offence AFAIK. As I understand it, an indictable offence can carry a penalty of up to 5 years imprisonment.
(Reference: Trade Marks Act 1995 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2013C00143))

Imagine if any of the above was enforced - Parklea and every other flea market in Australia would be shut down ;) Was there just last weekend and aside from the obvious KO Transformers, they also had numerous counterfeit NFL Jerseys for sale. I watched an interview with the CEO of Fanatics (official supplier of NFL merchandise) the other day and he went on record to say that their biggest competition is from overseas counterfeiters and last year alone they shut down over 4000 websites selling KO apparel. They'll never get rid of the problem as long as consumers vote with their money. Even downloading movies and TV shows seems to be an acceptable practice these days. It would be interesting to know how many people here complaining about knock-offs illegally download content. I know of a few offhand...

GoktimusPrime
29th January 2014, 12:33 PM
Imagine if any of the above was enforced - Parklea and every other flea market in Australia would be shut down ;) Was there just last weekend and aside from the obvious KO Transformers, they also had numerous counterfeit NFL Jerseys for sale. I watched an interview with the CEO of Fanatics (official supplier of NFL merchandise) the other day and he went on record to say that their biggest competition is from overseas counterfeiters and last year alone they shut down over 4000 websites selling KO apparel.
Police do occasionally raid and catch counterfeit sellers at these markets.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/counterfeit-designer-items-seized-in-raid/story-e6frfku0-1225842945351
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/market-mayhem/xjpqjag


Even downloading movies and TV shows seems to be an acceptable practice these days. It would be interesting to know how many people here complaining about knock-offs illegally download content. I know of a few offhand...
I only download Transformers eps so I can watch them. Once they're officially released on DVD/BR, I purchase it and delete the downloaded copies off my computer. Needless to say I can't wait for Animated Season 3 to be released on DVD (should've been released long ago).

DELTAprime
29th January 2014, 01:12 PM
I only download Transformers eps so I can watch them. Once they're officially released on DVD/BR, I purchase it and delete the downloaded copies off my computer. Needless to say I can't wait for Animated Season 3 to be released on DVD (should've been released long ago).

I have been doing the same thing. I downloaded Prime 1 - 3 and Rising and have been deleting them as Madman releases the Blu-ray. Unfortunatly that means I still have season 2 onwards on my hard drive, but thats a discussion for another thread:(.

5FDP
29th January 2014, 01:33 PM
Police do occasionally raid and catch counterfeit sellers at these markets.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/counterfeit-designer-items-seized-in-raid/story-e6frfku0-1225842945351
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/market-mayhem/xjpqjag

Occasionally being the operative word. One of those news articles is 4 years old. The video link gives the impression that they were specifically targeting Manchester United jerseys as their brand representative was present - what about all the other jerseys she was selling. It's not just about sporting apparel, I'd wager that a good 80% or more brand items being sold at markets today are counterfeit. It's a half-hearted effort by the authorities to target a select few traders when in reality if they really cared about cracking down on this illegal activity, they could close most markets altogether. Why don't they then? Cause it would be bad for business the same way that banning cigarettes outright would be i.e. no government taxes to be collected.


I only download Transformers eps so I can watch them. Once they're officially released on DVD/BR, I purchase it and delete the downloaded copies off my computer. Needless to say I can't wait for Animated Season 3 to be released on DVD (should've been released long ago).

Just to be clear, my comment wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular however, because you plan on buying them later makes it OK to download them now :rolleyes: You do realise that's still illegal right? I hope that's not your defense ;) :)

GoktimusPrime
29th January 2014, 05:30 PM
Fine. I won't download any more episodes of future Transformers series then. I guess I'll just have to avoid spoilers until they're available on DVD/BR (which can be a good 9-10 months if I preorder the US R1 set). Thaaat's gonna be heaps of fun. (-_-)

theshape
29th January 2014, 06:47 PM
Question: Am i bad for downloading a scan of the out of print and expensive Generations TF book? (Japanese book with photos of ALL the G1 and G2 toys)

This book is awesome and only way to get it is to pay over $100 on the 2ndary market :confused:

DELTAprime
29th January 2014, 06:53 PM
Question: Am i bad for downloading a scan of the out of print and expensive Generations TF book? (Japanese book with photos of ALL the G1 and G2 toys)

This book is awesome and only way to get it is to pay over $100 on the 2ndary market :confused:

Bad Shape, Bad!:p

GoktimusPrime
29th January 2014, 07:19 PM
Question: Am i bad for downloading a scan of the out of print and expensive Generations TF book? (Japanese book with photos of ALL the G1 and G2 toys)
TFwiki copiously uses scanned images from that book.


This book is awesome and only way to get it is to pay over $100 on the 2ndary market :confused:
:eek: Ppphhhhhoooaaaarrr!
I lost my book for a while and it really ticked me off. I couldn't even find copies of it in Japan (even at collectable stores). Thankfully I've since found my book. :o

Sky Shadow
29th January 2014, 07:48 PM
I imagine that there is no 'serious' fan here who hasn't done something that's technically dodgy at some point. Heck, I'm pretty sure it was illegal to videotape Saturday morning episodes of the G1 cartoon, so I should have been put in juvie back in the eighties.

Sinnertwin
29th January 2014, 08:22 PM
I imagine that there is no 'serious' fan here who hasn't done something that's technically dodgy at some point. Heck, I'm pretty sure it was illegal to videotape Saturday morning episodes of the G1 cartoon, so I should have been put in juvie back in the eighties.

:D :D
So true. That just took me back to a time when i'd sit by the radio with a blank cassette loaded & have my finger hovering over the record button

5FDP
29th January 2014, 09:51 PM
Fine. I won't download any more episodes of future Transformers series then. I guess I'll just have to avoid spoilers until they're available on DVD/BR (which can be a good 9-10 months if I preorder the US R1 set). Thaaat's gonna be heaps of fun. (-_-)

I don't mean to question your means of watching future TF series and I certainly don't mean for you to stop - heck I have over 4TB of downloaded TV shows / movies, I am just genuinely curious as to where someone who so vehemently opposes counterfeit TF draws the line or considers at which point counterfieting is an acceptable practice.


I imagine that there is no 'serious' fan here who hasn't done something that's technically dodgy at some point. Heck, I'm pretty sure it was illegal to videotape Saturday morning episodes of the G1 cartoon, so I should have been put in juvie back in the eighties.

Guilty as charged :o I see the point you are making and techincally you are correct however you could also argue that there is a difference between acquiring something that has not yet been released in this country i.e. bought and paid for by whichever company that decides to purchase the rights, and recording something that's available locally on free-to-air.

GoktimusPrime
30th January 2014, 02:46 PM
I don't mean to question your means of watching future TF series and I certainly don't mean for you to stop - heck I have over 4TB of downloaded TV shows / movies, I am just genuinely curious as to where someone who so vehemently opposes counterfeit TF draws the line or considers at which point counterfieting is an acceptable practice.
So speaking from an ethical (and not legal) POV...

If a person is downloading or still keeping downloaded copies of content that is commercially available, then I can see how that's no better than purchasing counterfeit toys - and that's a practice that I do not do nor condone. But for me, a more ethical way of downloading content would be to only download shows that are not commercially available for purchase, and when it does become commercially available, to purchase it and delete the downloaded copies.

Counterfeits are different because they're copies of legitimate product that's already been made commercially available. For example, if you want an MP Lambor toy, you can go buy an original. But if you want a copy of Transformers Animated Season 3, it's not possible because that product doesn't exist as an official product. TakaraTOMY would have a legitimate grievance over someone making or selling KO MP Lambors, because they're illegally taking money away from their legit toys. The same argument couldn't be made for someone distributing episodes of Animated Season 3 recorded off Cartoon Network, because what are they taking away potential sales from? From DVDs/BRs that they're not producing?

Another difference is money. If someone goes and purchases a KO toy, they're paying for that product. The person who manufactures and supplies these fakes are also receiving money. With downloads, I don't pay for it, and AFAIK the person who uploaded the content isn't getting paid for it either. They're distributed for free by fans for fans. The other thing is deception. Counterfeits by their very nature attempt to deceive consumers into believing that they're the legitimate product. This doesn't happen w/ the kind of downloading that we're talking about.

So for me, "ethical" download practice differs from purchasing counterfeits because:
a) You have every intention of purchasing the legitimate product.
b) You are not paying money to the people who have supplied the illegitimate product (there is no illegitimate profit being made).

Note: This is merely an expression of opinions and not a endorsement of dubious downloading

millhouse
30th January 2014, 06:44 PM
So for me, "ethical" download practice differs from purchasing counterfeits because:
a) You have every intention of purchasing the legitimate product.
b) You are not paying money to the people who have supplied the illegitimate product (there is no illegitimate profit being made).

Can I raise (what I feel is) a valid point here? Do you download from torrents?

GoktimusPrime
31st January 2014, 12:05 PM
I think so. I'm not familiar with how downloading videos work, only started doing it last year when it was harder to find TF Prime eps to view on YouTube.

5FDP
31st January 2014, 12:54 PM
So speaking from an ethical (and not legal) POV...

If a person is downloading or still keeping downloaded copies of content that is commercially available, then I can see how that's no better than purchasing counterfeit toys - and that's a practice that I do not do nor condone. But for me, a more ethical way of downloading content would be to only download shows that are not commercially available for purchase, and when it does become commercially available, to purchase it and delete the downloaded copies.

Counterfeits are different because they're copies of legitimate product that's already been made commercially available. For example, if you want an MP Lambor toy, you can go buy an original. But if you want a copy of Transformers Animated Season 3, it's not possible because that product doesn't exist as an official product. TakaraTOMY would have a legitimate grievance over someone making or selling KO MP Lambors, because they're illegally taking money away from their legit toys. The same argument couldn't be made for someone distributing episodes of Animated Season 3 recorded off Cartoon Network, because what are they taking away potential sales from? From DVDs/BRs that they're not producing?

Another difference is money. If someone goes and purchases a KO toy, they're paying for that product. The person who manufactures and supplies these fakes are also receiving money. With downloads, I don't pay for it, and AFAIK the person who uploaded the content isn't getting paid for it either. They're distributed for free by fans for fans. The other thing is deception. Counterfeits by their very nature attempt to deceive consumers into believing that they're the legitimate product. This doesn't happen w/ the kind of downloading that we're talking about.

So for me, "ethical" download practice differs from purchasing counterfeits because:
a) You have every intention of purchasing the legitimate product.
b) You are not paying money to the people who have supplied the illegitimate product (there is no illegitimate profit being made).

Note: This is merely an expression of opinions and not a endorsement of dubious downloading

That's a reasonably well thought out post and I agree with most of what you have written. There is one point however that's a bit ambiguous and that's "You are not paying money to the people who have supplied the illegitimate product (there is no illegitimate profit being made)". Now while you haven't directly paid for it, someone, somewhere already has. You're just getting it for free. So, by that rationale, if someone were to give you a KO for free, declared that it was in fact a counterfeit, and you had intentions to purchase the official toy when / if released, that would be OK?

millhouse
31st January 2014, 12:59 PM
I think so. I'm not familiar with how downloading videos work, only started doing it last year when it was harder to find TF Prime eps to view on YouTube.

My old-standard devil's advocate comment is that pirating is like drug use, you support something you shouldn't be, but its for your personal use.

Using torrents is (by virtue of the fact that other people download off you as you download off other people) more like buying a kilo of cocaine, keeping part for yourself, and flogging the rest off in small sales on the street. You're effectively becoming the problem itself.

I think most people here are happy to deal with KOs for personal use, media for personal use, etc, but downloading via a torrent is very much a case of committing a larger offence than downloading from something like a newsgroup service or a filehosting service like Rapidshare.

Hope that makes some sense!

PS: Ain't judging you at all on this one!

millhouse
31st January 2014, 01:08 PM
The other thing is deception. Counterfeits by their very nature attempt to deceive consumers into believing that they're the legitimate product. This doesn't happen w/ the kind of downloading that we're talking about.

I do have to call bullshit on this statement. There are a tonne of places that use these encodes and pirated copies as the basis of pirate DVDs. If you go to Bali (and yes, an Australian traveller won't be fooled), you'll see every film up for an academy award on sale for $2, with the better transfers being from pirated downloads, same with recent tv shows.

As someone who has been a production manager on an independent film that was pirated, and who took a deferred payment, I'm going to ask... are those pirates going to buy a copy of the film so that the film goes into profit and I get paid the $4,000 I'm owed?

No, they are not.

Now, I'm not deceiving myself into thinking I was ever going to get paid on that film - I knew it wouldn't make enough profit, etc (even though you can buy it at JB Hi-Fi and Amazon.com) but the reality is what it is. Don't deceive yourself that you're not part of a billion dollar problem.

That being said, I may or may not shop at the torrent store. But I do accept what I am doing and that there are consequences of it, regardless of how they affect me in little or no manner.

Finback
31st January 2014, 05:17 PM
Me? I sometimes buy KOs, especially those bizarrely sized ones, or the strange - I have a weird KO of Liokaizer, except he has Cybertron rocket truck Red Alert for an arm. And he's only about as tall as a BW basic.

I mostly buy them for the weird factor. Hey, look, RiD Prime but in neon green, and shrunk to the size of a deluxe? I'll grab it. KO version of a Masterpiece? Nope. I'm happy to pay cheap prices for bizarro cheap quality crap, but I don't really go into buying KOs of "proper" stuff.

I once found a KO Dinozaur figure - the mammoth. The best bit is the instructions; translated into English via Latin. "INITIATE PATE AND PROPODIUM DEFORM." "FORM OF THE GOD ELEPHANT GHAZI".

Sky Shadow
31st January 2014, 08:51 PM
The same argument couldn't be made for someone distributing episodes of Animated Season 3 recorded off Cartoon Network, because what are they taking away potential sales from? From DVDs/BRs that they're not producing?


With downloads, I don't pay for it, and AFAIK the person who uploaded the content isn't getting paid for it either. They're distributed for free by fans for fans.


I think so. I'm not familiar with how downloading videos work, only started doing it last year when it was harder to find TF Prime eps to view on YouTube.

People can make money when others watch their uploaded videos on YouTube, and although I believe that is only supposed to be for content they own the rights to, it is possible that there are dodgy people making money from videos they don't own. Likewise, I suspect that wherever else you get the videos from probably has some sort of advertising system whereby they make money from clicks or visits. Also, let's say there is a new Transformers series that was only released on pay TV in Australia, like Beast Machines was at the time, if I recall correctly. If you watch the videos online then shouldn't you ethically have to subscribe to the pay TV network? Similarly, if a Transformers series goes on free-to-air TV in Australia and fans with ratings boxes don't watch it because they've already downloaded it, it lessens the chances of the network buying future Transformers serials. Ergo, watching Transformers online is akin to buying knockoffs.

millhouse
31st January 2014, 10:13 PM
Ergo, watching Transformers online is akin to buying knockoffs.

Bingo. Piracy is piracy.

I'm not going to hate on anyone who indulges in it, as it would be totally hypocritical. But I can certainly say I'm not ignorant to the effects and reality of it.

GoktimusPrime
31st January 2014, 10:15 PM
That's a reasonably well thought out post and I agree with most of what you have written. There is one point however that's a bit ambiguous and that's "You are not paying money to the people who have supplied the illegitimate product (there is no illegitimate profit being made)". Now while you haven't directly paid for it, someone, somewhere already has. You're just getting it for free. So, by that rationale, if someone were to give you a KO for free, declared that it was in fact a counterfeit, and you had intentions to purchase the official toy when / if released, that would be OK?
All the Transformers Prime episodes I watched were taped off TV and then uploaded for download. I even get those ads at the end that tell you what other programmes are coming up on "The Hub," you know, where they squish the credits in half to show the advert and you can't hear the ending theme properly because the voice over guy is talking over it. So as far as I know, the person who supplied the material didn't pay for it.


My old-standard devil's advocate comment is that pirating is like drug use, you support something you shouldn't be, but its for your personal use.

Using torrents is (by virtue of the fact that other people download off you as you download off other people) more like buying a kilo of cocaine, keeping part for yourself, and flogging the rest off in small sales on the street. You're effectively becoming the problem itself.

I think most people here are happy to deal with KOs for personal use, media for personal use, etc, but downloading via a torrent is very much a case of committing a larger offence than downloading from something like a newsgroup service or a filehosting service like Rapidshare.
Once I've finished downloading the file, I immediately remove it from my "library," which AFAIK prevents anyone else from accessing what I've downloaded. Again, I'm really really really new to this whole downloading thing... so as far as I know, I'm not sharing it with anyone else. Unless I'm somehow doing it in a way that I'm not aware of. I'm by no means knowingly sharing any content that I've downloaded. I thought that deleting the file from my torrent program's library prevented others from accessing it, but if people are still able to access it through other parts of my hard drive which I thought was private (i.e. "My Videos"), then I guess I'll need to delete anything from that folder and keep copies on flash drives. Although I also have home family videos in that folder and it kinda feels weird if other bit torrent users are able to access these files too. :eek:


I do have to call bulls*** on this statement. There are a tonne of places that use these encodes and pirated copies as the basis of pirate DVDs.
In which case they are making counterfeits - hence back to my previous statement about counterfeits.


Now, I'm not deceiving myself into thinking I was ever going to get paid on that film - I knew it wouldn't make enough profit, etc (even though you can buy it at JB Hi-Fi and Amazon.com) but the reality is what it is. Don't deceive yourself that you're not part of a billion dollar problem.

That being said, I may or may not shop at the torrent store. But I do accept what I am doing and that there are consequences of it, regardless of how they affect me in little or no manner.
Store??? :confused: The way I download (I don't know if it's what you call torrenting or whatever) doesn't solicit me for ANY payment. So I'm not sure how I'm financially supporting an illicit industry if I'm not parting with any money.

May I also add that Transformers Prime has been the only show I've ever downloaded period. Even then, it was from the second half of Season 1 onwards, because that's when I stopped being able to find the eps on YouTube. So as far as I'm aware of, I'm not financially supporting video piracy. If someone can explain to me in a simple and clear way how I may have been doing so, then obviously I will reconsider continuing to do so in future.


People can make money when others watch their uploaded videos on YouTube, and although I believe that is only supposed to be for content they own the rights to, it is possible that there are dodgy people making money from videos they don't own.
That is correct. And I know people who've uploaded original content to YouTube, had others copy it and upload it onto their own channel, only to have YouTube staff shut it down -- although this is because the copyright violation was explicitly reported to YouTube. I'm not sure if YouTube bothers to act if violations aren't reported. <shrugs>


Likewise, I suspect that wherever else you get the videos from probably has some sort of advertising system whereby they make money from clicks or visits.
All the TF Animated and Prime eps that I watched on YouTube never had any adverts on them. So AFAIK they weren't paid for it. I know my YouTube videos don't have adverts and I don't get a cent from YouTube.


Also, let's say there is a new Transformers series that was only released on pay TV in Australia, like Beast Machines was at the time, if I recall correctly. If you watch the videos online then shouldn't you ethically have to subscribe to the pay TV network? Similarly, if a Transformers series goes on free-to-air TV in Australia and fans with ratings boxes don't watch it because they've already downloaded it, it lessens the chances of the network buying future Transformers serials. Ergo, watching Transformers online is akin to buying knockoffs.
In my personal opinion (and again, discussing ethics not law), I would agree with this once the content is broadcast on Australian television (pay TV or free to air). But I personally don't feel the same about the content when it hasn't yet been aired on Australian TV, and especially when it's not known if any Australian TV channels have even acquired the rights to broadcast it here. Thus at that stage, the content is not available in this region. Once the content is scheduled to be broadcast on Australian TV, then I absolutely agree that it's becomes more ethically dubious to continue downloading it, and I personally wouldn't do it. I still watch TF eps when they're broadcast locally too. ;)

millhouse
31st January 2014, 10:42 PM
All the Transformers Prime episodes I watched were taped off TV and then uploaded for download. I even get those ads at the end that tell you what other programmes are coming up on "The Hub," you know, where they squish the credits in half to show the advert and you can't hear the ending theme properly because the voice over guy is talking over it. So as far as I know, the person who supplied the material didn't pay for it.

Nor did they have the right to distribute it. Someone is making money - be it the hosting company (Rapidshare, whatever), the ads on the torrent site, etc.


Once I've finished downloading the file, I immediately remove it from my "library," which AFAIK prevents anyone else from accessing what I've downloaded. Again, I'm really really really new to this whole downloading thing... so as far as I know, I'm not sharing it with anyone else. Unless I'm somehow doing it in a way that I'm not aware of. I'm by no means knowingly sharing any content that I've downloaded. I thought that deleting the file from my torrent program's library prevented others from accessing it, but if people are still able to access it through other parts of my hard drive which I thought was private (i.e. "My Videos"), then I guess I'll need to delete anything from that folder and keep copies on flash drives. Although I also have home family videos in that folder and it kinda feels weird if other bit torrent users are able to access these files too.

Have a read of "bittorrent" on Wikipedia. Once you get your head around it, you'll understand. That's probably a pretty major thing to comprehend in terms of piracy because its (imho) the primary source of piracy online. You might now be downloading torrents (I don't know, because you haven't stated) but it's a reasonable assumption that its a possibility.


...doesn't solicit me for ANY payment. So I'm not sure how I'm financially supporting an illicit industry if I'm not parting with any money.

It's easy. You view a site with ads, someone is making money. Do you see a single ad on the site you download from? If so, someone is making money off someone else's work. Further, the demand to supply you (and most definitely others) with pirate copies gives people who pirate and produce counterfeit DVDs for a living a source for content. Does that make sense?


May I also add that Transformers Prime has been the only show I've ever downloaded period. Even then, it was from the second half of Season 1 onwards, because that's when I stopped being able to find the eps on YouTube. So as far as I'm aware of, I'm not financially supporting video piracy. If someone can explain to me in a simple and clear way how I may have been doing so, then obviously I will reconsider continuing to do so in future.


That is correct. And I know people who've uploaded original content to YouTube, had others copy it and upload it onto their own channel, only to have YouTube staff shut it down -- although this is because the copyright violation was explicitly reported to YouTube. I'm not sure if YouTube bothers to act if violations aren't reported. <shrugs>

I (pardon my language) fucking hate dealing with YouTube. I have short films online as screeners. They use licensed or copyright free music. The amount of bullshit disputes and unfairly placed ads that are placed over my videos until I dispute them and resolve the dispute, having someone else make money off the hard work of myself and my crew fucking disgusts me.

Why does that exist? Because assholes post shit on YouTube that they do not have the right to. Hence, copyright owners respond overly forceful.


All the TF Animated and Prime eps that I watched on YouTube never had any adverts on them. So AFAIK they weren't paid for it. I know my YouTube videos don't have adverts and I don't get a cent from YouTube.

As per my above comment, I've had Universal make money off my work, because of how the copyright system on YouTube works. I've never made a penny, nor do I choose to run ads on my videos because that isn't why I have them hosted on YouTube.


In my personal opinion (and again, discussing ethics not law), I would agree with this once the content is broadcast on Australian television (pay TV or free to air). But I personally don't feel the same about the content when it hasn't yet been aired on Australian TV, and especially when it's not known if any Australian TV channels have even acquired the rights to broadcast it here. Thus at that stage, the content is not available in this region. Once the content is scheduled to be broadcast on Australian TV, then I absolutely agree that it's becomes more ethically dubious to continue downloading it, and I personally wouldn't do it. I still watch TF eps when they're broadcast locally too. ;)

It doesn't change the fact that, however you twist it, it's ethically wrong. Just because a house isn't being lived in doesn't allow me to live there during that time until the homeowners rock up. Regardless of me not damaging the property in any manner, it's wrong, legally and ethically.

Having been involved in the indie film industry (seriously, the film shot at my house over a period of a month was up on The Pirate Bay once it hit DVD), I can say that, personally, I view piracy as something I accept, partake in, and understand how it affects people.

Ethically or criminally, it's wrong. Whether you do it is entirely your choice, but take the time to understand why its wrong.

I'd like to clarify that copyright and piracy discussion is something I've spoken with friends and colleagues extensively. I'd hope you don't take my comments (besides the message of be aware of what you're doing) as an attack on you, Goktimus.

GoktimusPrime
31st January 2014, 11:04 PM
You've given me some food for thought. Downloading is never something I 'wanted' to get into. As I said, I only started doing it a year or so ago when it became harder to view it on advert-free YouTube channels. And again, I ONLY ever did it for Transformers Prime. Never ever downloaded anything else.

What would you suggest as the "least unethical" means to view new Transformers eps? (other than waiting nearly a year for it to come out on DVD/BR) Unfortunately in an age of online social media, it becomes damn hard to avoid spoilers. I've already been exposed to a freakin' spoiler from the next TF film and it hasn't even come out yet! :mad: :rolleyes: In the days before home broadband, I used to have a friend in the US record episodes of Transformers for me on VHS and send the tapes to me (and also another friend in Japan did the same thing for the JP TF series ;)). The only downside was I had to wait for the entire series to finish airing and they'd recorded it on video tape, then send the entire series to me to watch. But like I said, social media as we know it didn't exist then, so I didn't have people throw spoilers in my face as they all too easily can do now. And yeah, I'd watch the same US eps again when they were aired here. Broadcast quality PAL > grainy recorded NTSC! ;)

But yeah, if someone can offer me an ethically better alternative to viewing content faster, then I'd be more than happy to take it under advisement. Makes me wish TV stations would Fast Track Transformers shows (i.e. broadcast them only a few hours after the US). Heck, look what the ABC did when they did a simulcast of the recent Doctor Who specials (and then repeated them over and over again for the next 2 days, and also had them available on iView). ;) It was a great way for me to watch those eps repeatedly on ABC2 and iView, without needing to resort to ethically dubious means.

5FDP
31st January 2014, 11:39 PM
So, correct me if I am wrong, but you’ve pretty much stated that you will continue downloading understanding that it is morally unethical and illegal, until such time that an alternative can be identified which benefits your personal situation? Yep, that pretty much sums up the same justification collectors have for buying KO’s.

This reminds me, a new episode of The Big Bang Theory aired in the US today ;) :p


Bingo. Piracy is piracy.

I'm not going to hate on anyone who indulges in it, as it would be totally hypocritical. But I can certainly say I'm not ignorant to the effects and reality of it.

QFT! :cool:

GoktimusPrime
1st February 2014, 12:32 AM
So, correct me if I am wrong, but you’ve pretty much stated that you will continue downloading understanding that it is morally unethical and illegal, until such time that an alternative can be identified which benefits your personal situation?
I never said that. I am considering other alternatives, such as using overseas contacts to directly send me their recordings. This is what I do w/ Japanese TF series. Get a friend in Japan to record the show, then send it directly to me on a disk. No uploading. No downloading. It's similar to what I used to do w/ asking people to record shows on VHS and send the tapes to me. I could consider asking a US contact to do the same w/ a US TF show.

I actually HAVEN'T DECIDED what I'm going to do w/ any future TF shows. As I said, I'm taking things under consideration... this doesn't mean that I've made any decision either way. But in the meantime, I'm open to suggestions. I'm not rushing this decision, since there's no TF show currently coming out soon...


Yep, that pretty much sums up the same justification collectors have for buying KO’s.
I'm only talking about downloading content that is NOT available here. I object to doing the same thing once the content becomes available. And as I said, I ALWAYS purchase the legitimate DVDs/BRs when as soon as they become commercially available -- all my TF Prime DVDs were preordered. So at the time that I downloaded the shows, the legit copies did not exist to be purchased. KOs on the other hand are counterfeits of toys that have already been made available. A person who purchases a KO MP Lambor is deliberately skipping the official product that already exists in favour of buying an imitation.

I'm NOT saying that downloading is a guilt-free and totally "innocent" practice either. But IMHO it's a different issue from KOs. Because when I see people talking about obtaining pirated wares, I think, "Why don't you just buy the real thing?" -- when it comes to content that isn't available, the answer is simply, "Because the real thing doesn't exist." But this isn't the case with KOs. Maybe if people were to starting counterfeiting toys long before they were officially released, then that would be a different issue. ;) So again, I'm not saying that I think that downloading content is some kind of innocent and saintly practice by any stretch of the imagination... but I think it's a different kettle of fish than buying KOs, because with the latter the choice of purchasing the legit product already exists.

-------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think about downloading scans of comics that are long out of print? e.g. remember when certain web sites used to host scans of the entire Marvel G1 comic book run (both US and UK)? These sites have since been shut down or removed all their scans since Titan Books acquired the licence to reprint the Marvel comics (and now it's IDW). I'm happy to buy these reprints (though IDW's quality is pretty shocking and nowhere near as good as Titan's). There used to be a time when you'd come across someone who's unfamiliar with the G1 comics, and you could direct them to one of the fan sites that hosted the scans. Nowadays I just tell people to go buy the reprints.

But what did you guys think about these sites BEFORE Titan acquired the reprint licence and they desisted from sharing their scans? I remember when they took their scans down, some fans were livid... but I was in support of that decision because it made perfect sense that once a company acquired the licence, it meant that the content would soon become commercially available, and thus the administrators of those sites stopped sharing the content.

millhouse
1st February 2014, 03:02 PM
Because when I see people talking about obtaining pirated wares, I think, "Why don't you just buy the real thing?" -- when it comes to content that isn't available, the answer is simply, "Because the real thing doesn't exist." But this isn't the case with KOs. Maybe if people were to starting counterfeiting toys long before they were officially released, then that would be a different issue. ;) So again, I'm not saying that I think that downloading content is some kind of innocent and saintly practice by any stretch of the imagination... but I think it's a different kettle of fish than buying KOs, because with the latter the choice of purchasing the legit product already exists.

Still legally and ethically wrong. Regardless. I hate to break it to you, but just because something exists, doesn't mean you're entitled to have it.


What do you guys think about downloading scans of comics that are long out of print? e.g. remember when certain web sites used to host scans of the entire Marvel G1 comic book run (both US and UK)? These sites have since been shut down or removed all their scans since Titan Books acquired the licence to reprint the Marvel comics (and now it's IDW). I'm happy to buy these reprints (though IDW's quality is pretty shocking and nowhere near as good as Titan's). There used to be a time when you'd come across someone who's unfamiliar with the G1 comics, and you could direct them to one of the fan sites that hosted the scans. Nowadays I just tell people to go buy the reprints.

But what did you guys think about these sites BEFORE Titan acquired the reprint licence and they desisted from sharing their scans? I remember when they took their scans down, some fans were livid... but I was in support of that decision because it made perfect sense that once a company acquired the licence, it meant that the content would soon become commercially available, and thus the administrators of those sites stopped sharing the content.

It's still piracy, plain and simple. The sites were filling a need, that's a certainty, but it was illegal and whoever owned the rights (and didn't take action against the sites) were okay with turning a blind eye.

It comes back to the argument that just because something exists or has existed somewhere, doesn't mean its your right to access it and get it whenever you want. The sense of entitlement (across society, and please, I want to be clear that I'm not targeting you personally) across society is fucking disgusting these days. The "I want my Transformers episode now!" mentality is fine, but you didn't make it, you haven't accessed it through the channels that it has been released (because it isnt available to you, through no fault of your own), and you aren't entitled to it.

While personal use is (generally considered) acceptable by licence holders, there's a difference between a mate taping a show and shipping it to you (or the modern equivalent of him/her recording the show, capturing it, encoding it, uploading it, and sending you and only you a direct link to their personal website hosting it), and someone capturing a show and uploading it for all and sundry to take what they want.


As I said, it would be hypocritical for me to complain about piracy, but the blasé attitude some people show towards it isn't something that should be tolerated by default just because someone doesn't know how it affects people/industry.

Put it this way. If a new show plays and only one person watches it, but they pirate it and everyone else watches the pirated copy, the following happens;

- the network can't sell ads, so they can't make more episodes, they also lose the investment they made in the initial episode(s).
- the hosting company that is hosting the pirated file makes money off advertising.

Explain how this is fair?

If it's available on Hulu or Netflix, get a VPN, pay for Hulu or Netflix, and at least you're ethically in the clear, even if you're technically going against the terms of service because of geography. At least the money is going to the people it should be going to.

Otherwise, don't try to justify behaviour under a cloud of ethics and legality when it's wrong on both counts.

Alternatively, accept that what you do is wrong (though hardly a blight on society) and come to terms with the fact that you're (like pretty much everyone in some manner) a flawed human being. :P We have club cards, lanyards and everything. :P

I'd also like to say that I've really enjoyed this discussion, and appreciate that the mods/admins haven't kicked this threads' ass yet. Many boards would have.

drifand
1st February 2014, 03:58 PM
So I read on the other transformers forum that many supported the KO mp 10 if its released simply because they can't be stuffed with inflated prices.

For me, I missed mp-10 because I hated the idea of getting another prime. I can live with it until a reissue with a comfortable price I am able to buy it. IMO mp-10 will be reissued again and again, come on folks, its the autobot leader. Yes I saw the HK version but those prices were again just not right just for a fancy stand.

From lesson stand point, always buy it first out. But we all know we have budget and limited cash thus why sometimes things are missed out and we pay premium.

It is respectable that a lot of forum members sell these pieces lower than what online are currently selling.

GoktimusPrime
1st February 2014, 05:10 PM
Still legally and ethically wrong. Regardless. I hate to break it to you, but just because something exists, doesn't mean you're entitled to have it.
I never said otherwise. :confused: I was speaking about ethics, not legality. Legal issues are clear cut black and white, either something is right (lawful) or wrong (unlawful). Ethics and morality are different issues with varying "shades of grey." I never said that downloading content was "right", but I said that I see it as a "different evil" from KOs.


It comes back to the argument that just because something exists or has existed somewhere, doesn't mean its your right to access it and get it whenever you want. The sense of entitlement (across society, and please, I want to be clear that I'm not targeting you personally) across society is f***ing disgusting these days. The "I want my Transformers episode now!" mentality is fine, but you didn't make it, you haven't accessed it through the channels that it has been released (because it isnt available to you, through no fault of your own), and you aren't entitled to it.
I'd be willing to be more patient if it weren't for inconsiderate US fans who feel the urge to throw spoilers about the place without warning. :( As I said, during Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Car Robot etc., I patiently waited for friends to tape the eps off TV and send it to me. I was able to avoid spoilers because modern social media outlets as we know them today didn't exist then. Even Hasbro themselves released a spoiler about the end of TF Prime Season 3 with news about an upcoming toy (with a spoilerish gimmick) that they posted on social media. :rolleyes:


While personal use is (generally considered) acceptable by licence holders, there's a difference between a mate taping a show and shipping it to you (or the modern equivalent of him/her recording the show, capturing it, encoding it, uploading it, and sending you and only you a direct link to their personal website hosting it), and someone capturing a show and uploading it for all and sundry to take what they want.
As I said, I was UNAWARE that anyone was making any money from sharing content. I thought it was a free service by fans for fans. But if what you guys are saying about that is true, then I shall reconsider my options and perhaps go back to having mates directly send me recordings (thus it's completely not-for-profit).


As I said, it would be hypocritical for me to complain about piracy, but the blasé attitude some people show towards it isn't something that should be tolerated by default just because someone doesn't know how it affects people/industry.
I don't think that I "tolerate it by default" at all. I have openly criticised people to their faces about what I consider "unethical download practice" (e.g. downloading content that IS already commercially available here because they can't be bothered paying for it, or downloading it before release and then not purchasing it later etc.).


Put it this way. If a new show plays and only one person watches it, but they pirate it and everyone else watches the pirated copy, the following happens;

- the network can't sell ads, so they can't make more episodes, they also lose the investment they made in the initial episode(s).
- the hosting company that is hosting the pirated file makes money off advertising.

Explain how this is fair?
In principle I agree with what you're saying, but I think with Transformers the majority of the audience are younger kids whom I imagine would be less likely to download the content and more likely to watch it when it airs on local television. But we live in a world now where fans around the world are connected via the internet and modern communication networks. Popular shows that air in one country will very quickly be discussed by other fans globally. The BBC has recognised this w/ Dr Who, hence simulcasting it here, the rerunning it and making it available to view (but not download) on ABC2's site. Other shows do Fast-Tracking, allowing audiences here to view it only a few hours after it's aired overseas. I think this is a more pro-active way of addressing the issue, rather than simply chasing violators which is a reactive response. I'm NOT attempting to justifying illegit downloading here, but crime prevention is better than "cure" (i.e. crime response).


If it's available on Hulu or Netflix, get a VPN, pay for Hulu or Netflix, and at least you're ethically in the clear, even if you're technically going against the terms of service because of geography. At least the money is going to the people it should be going to.
Okay... that was like reading a foreign language. :p (no offence to you, as I said, I'm extremely noob and ignorant about downloading :o).


Otherwise, don't try to justify behaviour under a cloud of ethics and legality when it's wrong on both counts.
We really shouldn't be confusing ethics and legality here -- that's like mixing oil and water. With the law, you're demonstrating whether or not something conforms with set laws or not, but ethics and morality are based on subjective personal values -- so what's "right" or "wrong" depends greatly on our own personal set of values (re: ethical/moral subjectivism vs objectivism).


Alternatively, accept that what you do is wrong (though hardly a blight on society) and come to terms with the fact that you're (like pretty much everyone in some manner) a flawed human being. :P We have club cards, lanyards and everything. :P
Yes, I've said that in my previous posts. But I also said that I don't feel that it's the same "sin" as KOs. And sure, this is just based on my own personal subjective opinion, as are everyone's personal values. I'm NOT at all pretending to be presenting solid facts!

Downloading content w/o express permission is unlawful <--- fact
Such behaviour is "right" or "wrong"? <--- matter of opinion

------------------------------------

At any rate, none of us can change the past, all we can do is try and improve our behaviour in the future. So as I said, I will be reconsidering my options for accessing future TF content and try to find hopefully more ethically acceptable methods. I think there's a significant difference in unknowingly/unwittingly doing something that's ethically dubious as opposed to continuing to do so with full knowledge.

Burn
1st February 2014, 09:00 PM
From what I've seen, KO's (have not willingly bought them, have been tricked into believing they were legit though) and downloads, the majority of the reason for doing so is price.

They're either cheaper, or just free.

A good part of TV/Movie piracy is the delay in release time. "Fast tracking" is a wonderful idea, and I'm happy to support it, to a point. I'll tell you now, new Doctor Who episode? Unless it's simulcast, I'm downloading it.

And then watching it again when the ABC airs it. (I'm just that dedicated :p )

Other shows ... I'll catch them again on free-to-air (provided I'm actually at home to catch them because I don't have a PVR), some I'll even go out and buy the box sets.

As for movies, well ... given it's an hour long drive to the nearest cinemas that show the latest movies, downloading really is a hell of a lot easier (that being said, if I had a cinema in town I'd be there on a regular basis).

Same with comics, a good hour's drive away. Oh and of course there's the price. Nearly $8 for one comic? ugh ... and I'd be a week behind. Good thing those sites still exist!

So for me ... price and convenience. But KO TF's? If I can't get an original release then fine, I miss out completely. Because while I will support pirates, I won't support plagiarists.

tron07
3rd February 2014, 03:57 PM
Even Hasbro themselves released a spoiler about the end of TF Prime Season 3 with news about an upcoming toy (with a spoilerish gimmick) that they posted on social media.

what is this regarding??

One thing about Season 3, what does the BH toys got to do with the cartoon?? Especially those with the loads of new extra weapons and armours.

Bidoofdude
3rd February 2014, 04:12 PM
what is this regarding??

One thing about Season 3, what does the BH toys got to do with the cartoon?? Especially those with the loads of new extra weapons and armours.

They had to release something, since they are all the same except for Optimus and 3 predacons, so why not just retool the moulds with beasty type stuff to fit the name? :D

Sinnertwin
3rd February 2014, 04:34 PM
what is this regarding??

One thing about Season 3, what does the BH toys got to do with the cartoon?? Especially those with the loads of new extra weapons and armours.

The BH version of the Weaponizer Bumblebee has a feature where he talks -something not seen on the show until it was advertised on his box art

griffin
3rd February 2014, 06:26 PM
I totally forgot about that... Hasbro issued a public press-release about Bumblebee speaking in the cartoon BEFORE it happened (it wasn't a plot spoiler though, as it didn't relate to anything important), but I can't remember if the talking Weaponizer toy was related to that press-release (especially since the toy phrases don't even appear to be from the cartoon, or be by the Voice Actor either). :rolleyes:

tron07
6th February 2014, 03:44 PM
Ah... I totally forgotten about the talking bumblebee... it was totally insignificant for me.