Movie Review - Transformers 4 : Age Of Extinction (spoilers)

[Mythirax]

And I thought Dark Knight was boring, dark, depressing garbage.

I felt a bit like that too.

[Sinnertwin]

I must admit, whenever i'm looking for something i use Batman's
WHERE ARE THEY?!?!?
line sometimes :o:p

[Magnus]

And I thought Dark Knight was boring, dark, depressing garbage.

I don't know about 'boring' or 'garbage', but definitely with you on 'dark' and 'depressing'. It wasn't an enjoyable movie to watch; I only saw it once.

That's what I like about the Transformers movie series - they're not 'dark' or 'gritty' or depressing, although AoE was pretty dark by this franchise's standards.

[GoktimusPrime]

Looks like Japan is drawing in some of their own star power with the Japanese dub version of Age of Extinction (Lost Age), most notably Nakagawa Shouko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoko_Nakagawa) as the voice-over for Tessa Yeager. The other voice-over actors aren't widely known outside of voice acting (and Tokusatsu shows for some), so it seems that Nakagawa is the draw card for more general audience members in Japan. And of course, Genda Tesshou (Japanese equivalent of Peter Cullen ;)) has returned to reprise his role as Optimus Prime. :)

Yamadera Kouichi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dichi_Yamadera) is credited as the voice for Bumblebee to dub over the radio lines. Somewhat interesting that the original English language version never paid anyone to voice Bumblebee, but the Japanese dub does. ;) Another funny thing is that Watanabe Ken did not dub over himself as Drift! He's being dubbed over by Mizu'uchi Kiyomitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiyomitsu_Mizuuchi) -- probably because it was cheaper than hiring Watanabe himself. :o I dunno... if I were producing this dub, I would've spent the extra money to hire Watanabe to dub himself, but maybe the budget didn't allow for it. I guess hiring Nakagawa for Tessa made more sense from a marketing POV since Tess gets more lines and screen time than Drift. :rolleyes:

[M-bot]

I must admit, whenever i'm looking for something i use Batman's
WHERE ARE THEY?!?!?
line sometimes :o:p

I lost my voice recently (courtesy of the flu), and when it started to come back it was all Bale-as-Batman gravelly. I confess to asking my friends and family (and the odd random stranger) "DO I LOOK LIKE A COP?"

I loved the Dark Knight. Clear that Nolan puts a heap more thought and effort into script, character and story than Bay ever does in the TF franchise. In fact I would say that it's quite clear that most of us here put more thought into Bay's TF films than Bay has.

[GoktimusPrime]

Japanese commercial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkoLCH1yXLA) showcasing some of the dub-over voices. Nakagawa Shouko's voice can be heard at various points throughout the ad (she's the second person to speak after Cade). Genda Tesshou sounds pretty awesome as Optimus Prime -- those of us who've watched any Japanese G1 (e.g. The Headmasters) will recognise that voice. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

Honest Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz5vEfa7UvI) :D

[5FDP]

Honest Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz5vEfa7UvI) :D

Yep, that pretty much sums it up nicely.

[GoktimusPrime]

Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c97NAlvu3n0&feature=youtu.be)
Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZHSt1CSgo&feature=youtu.be)
I lost it after seeing the 'bonus rounds.' :D

[kup]

Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c97NAlvu3n0&feature=youtu.be)
Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZHSt1CSgo&feature=youtu.be)
I lost it after seeing the 'bonus rounds.' :D

Everything IS wrong with AOE :)

[SkyWarp91]

Everything IS wrong with AOE :)

'Autobots Reunite' is probably one of my top favourite scores to come out of the films, then again that's just the music :D

[Demonac]

Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c97NAlvu3n0&feature=youtu.be)
Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZHSt1CSgo&feature=youtu.be)
I lost it after seeing the 'bonus rounds.' :D

Based on these videos, I actually want to watch the movie now. It looks gloriously awful.

[SharkyMcShark]

It's honestly probably the worst movie I've ever seen.

And I really mean that.

[Sky Shadow]

Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c97NAlvu3n0&feature=youtu.be)
Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZHSt1CSgo&feature=youtu.be)
I lost it after seeing the 'bonus rounds.' :D

It took these videos to remind me that the lead human in this film, who revives Optimus Prime, is the same human who sang Optimus Prime's theme song (badly) in another film. Mind blown.

[GoktimusPrime]

<shudder> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYAAbbuEpnw)

[5FDP]

It's honestly probably the worst movie I've ever seen.

And I really mean that.

What about Sharknado? :p

[GoktimusPrime]

What about Sharknado? :p
Sharknado doesn't stall the plot with gratuitious fan-service shots and an entire scene dedicated to justifying cradle-snatching. ;) The protagonist also doesn't suddenly become godlike and, oh I don't know, fly into space under his own power! OVER NINE THOUSAND! :p

[laproblematique]

Just when you think Bay can't stoop any lower...

Still, what do you expect about a movie selling toys for kids.

[GoktimusPrime]

Still, what do you expect about a movie selling toys for kids.
A lot better, actually.

Some things to consider:

+ Just because a story is made to sell toys, doesn't mean it has to be bad. The G1 Marvel Comics and Beast Wars cartoon are two examples of great stories which were written, despite being fundamentally created to sell toys.

+ Many of the more serious criticisms aren't affected by the drive to sell toys. The need to sell toys doesn't necessitate...
* Gratuitous (and arguably misogynistic) fan-service shots
* Racist & homophobic undertones
* That whole creepy relationship between a grown man and a minor
* Several outright sexual references and adult themes. Okay, Beast Wars is loaded with sexual innuendo too, but at least there it's subtle! Delivered in a manner that makes adults chuckle, but flies over kids' heads. The references in the Bay films are about as subtle as being slapped in the face with a live trout.
* Overt screen time given to humans over the Transformers (ya know, the toys!)

+ The live action films actually aren't made to sell toys, but rather, the toys are made to market the movie. It's the reverse model of most other Transformers series. This is evident in...
* Paramount/Bay creating the Transformers as screen characters first, then HasTak having to 'translate' these characters into toys.
* Several screen characters never having been made into (proper) toys at all; e.g. Alice, Ze Little One, Mirage, Stinger etc.
* Age of Extinction's seeming complete disregard for making toys that are more "translatable" for toy designers. These toys have been a nightmare to translate as toys, leading to various kinds of engineering cheats/compromises such as 'backpackformers.'

These movies might be more enjoyable if they were actually more like TF toy adverts; i.e. skip all the human drama crap etc. and focus more on the transforming robot action!

[Sky Shadow]

Confirmed - Michael Bay Not Directing Transformers 5 (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/confirmed-michael-bay-not-directing-transformers-5-181444/)

<High fives the universe!> :D

[Bartrim]

Confirmed - Michael Bay Not Directing Transformers 5 (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/confirmed-michael-bay-not-directing-transformers-5-181444/)

<High fives the universe!> :D

Didn't he say he wasn't directing 4 either? I'd save those high fives until someone else is officially confirmed as directing. Also remember, it could be Uwe Boll.

[Sinnertwin]

Didn't he say he wasn't directing 4 either? I'd save those high fives until someone else is officially confirmed as directing. Also remember, it could be Uwe Boll.

Please be Uwe Boll, please.

[Zommael]

The question is, are these movies now big enough for them to get a good director in, or is the rep so low that they won't be able to?

[GoktimusPrime]

This is a review of the Region 1 DVD that came with the box set that includes the Blu Ray movie disc, Blu Ray Special Features Disc, HD copy and statue of Optimus Prime riding Grimlock.

The statue is made of plastic and is a bit soft in some parts, though not rubbery soft. The sculpting on the base and Grimlock is nice, but I expected better for Optimus Prime. On the whole statues don't interest me all that much... cos ya know... they don't really do anything, but I got this set on sale from Amazon, so the statue ended up being a freebie; so I don't mind it, but I might view it more negatively if I'd paid full price for it. :o

I don't personally understand much about technical film stuff like aspect ratios and whatnot, but for some reason, on both the DVD and BR there's a 5.5cm border on both sides. It looks weird to me and I'm not sure why they couldn't do it more traditional letterbox style. But I'm sure (re: hoping) that there is some technical film explanation that I just don't understand. :o

There are some issues with the DVD version, which includes:
* The menu being aligned too low. I assume that there's an underline beneath each menu choice (e.g. play movie, setup, scenes), but because the bottom line is cropped off, you can't actually see which button is being highlighted before selecting that option. You can still navigate your way around by visually where the cursor is, but it's still annoying.
* For some odd reason there's a LOT of script missing from the English subtitles; often just omitting second half of entire sentences. :eek: This is invariably be a hindrance for the hearing impaired who depend on having reliable subtitles. :( (I just use it at times when I need to keep the volume down when the rest of the family is sleeping, like right now :p).

I tried to access the Digital Copy, but got geo-blocked. :( :rolleyes: I haven't watched all the bonus features yet, but the packaging is boasting "Over 3 hours of special features," so it's probably gonna take a while before I can get through it all. :o

Overall, I am glad that I got this copy on sale at Amazon, as I've paid basically the same price as the Australian "bare bones" DVD, but getting DVD, BR movie, BR special features and statue, which IMHO is better value for money. Thankfully the BRs are not region coded, so they can play on region-locked Australian BR players. :) I don't know if the local version will have a different or adjust aspect ratio or not.

P.S.:
1/ Here's a screen shot of this...

+ The Chinese Vehicon factory has a big sign that said something like 創造美好(的)未来 ("Creating a Glorious Future"), just as we see everyone evacuating
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Age%20of%20Extinction/glorious_zps295dfc0d.jpg
2/ One piece of irony just hit me -- the car that Shane drives in Hong Kong has the Kanji 福 ("luck") written on it, and Shane is repeatedly referred to as "lucky charms."

[liegeprime]

hmmm, to this day I haven't seen the movie. managed to not know anything much about the movie other than it's got Drift and dinobots and a whole new human crew which doesn't die or even get maimed (really? c'mooon :mad::(), just a few scratches again like that Lebeauf guy even when he's fighting freakin giant killer robots for goodness sake, really? which irritates the hell out of me, get killed already you little human germs!!!.......

I'm just waiting for the regular dvd release.... when it goes on cheaper price as well, not the first $30+ release... it just doesn't interest me for some reason..:rolleyes::rolleyes: I just need to get one, prolly watch it once and keep it for the collection.

[5FDP]

hmmm, to this day I haven't seen the movie. managed to not know anything much about the movie other than it's got Drift and dinobots and a whole new human crew which doesn't die or even get maimed (really? c'mooon :mad::(), just a few scratches again like that Lebeauf guy even when he's fighting freakin giant killer robots for goodness sake, really? which irritates the hell out of me, get killed already you little human germs!!!.......

I'm just waiting for the regular dvd release.... when it goes on cheaper price as well, not the first $30+ release... it just doesn't interest me for some reason..:rolleyes::rolleyes: I just need to get one, prolly watch it once and keep it for the collection.

I smell the opportunity for a private viewing at your place before Xmas. I'll bring the popcorn :D

[millhouse]

I don't personally understand much about technical film stuff like aspect ratios and whatnot, but for some reason, on both the DVD and BR there's a 5.5cm border on both sides. It looks weird to me and I'm not sure why they couldn't do it more traditional letterbox style. But I'm sure (re: hoping) that there is some technical film explanation that I just don't understand. :o

There are some issues with the DVD version, which includes:
* The menu being aligned too low. I assume that there's an underline beneath each menu choice (e.g. play movie, setup, scenes), but because the bottom line is cropped off, you can't actually see which button is being highlighted before selecting that option. You can still navigate your way around by visually where the cursor is, but it's still annoying.
* For some odd reason there's a LOT of script missing from the English subtitles; often just omitting second half of entire sentences. :eek: This is invariably be a hindrance for the hearing impaired who depend on having reliable subtitles.I don't know if the local version will have a different or adjust aspect ratio or not.


Respectively, here are my thoughts;

Are the borders to the top/bottom, left/right, or both? 5.5cm - what screen size are we talking about? It could be to compensate for overscan, but that's unusual in the days of LCD televisions and blu-ray discs (except for Grease's opening title animation...)

Have you got your TV set to "full", "full pixel", etc? What kind of TV are we talking about? I would hazard a guess it's a settings thing because this seems like a silly oversight otherwise...

As for subtitles, I suspect it comes down to screen real estate and speed of reading. Unfortunate, but a fact of life.

Hope this helps!

[liegeprime]

I smell the opportunity for a private viewing at your place before Xmas. I'll bring the popcorn :D

Well if someone can bring their DVD copy I'm happy to provide the place and foodstuff. Good thing I bought a new flat screen TV. :D

[griffin]

Just started watching the extras on the American DVD/Bluray pack.

Some thoughts...

So many tricks to the special effects and filming techniques are shown... it is really fascinating to see the process behind it all. (and to think that during all that time, there was an additional film crew assigned to do all this filming for these hours of bonus BluRay features)

Drift was originally intended to be black and orange instead of black and blue... but the orange cars were sold before they could secure them, and Bugatti only make a limited number.
The character was also intended to be a triplechanger, as a first for the Movies in the traditional Gen1 sense, as Laserbeak appeared to have multiple modes.

Bay in his interviews and featurettes is very enthusiastic and proud of what he's achieved from a creative perspective, and often talks of concepts and characters like you'd hear from a fan's mouth. But his passion for artistic filming takes precedence over his obvious passion for the Brand - as he boasts often about all the things he has been first to do with movie-making, while people on his crew refers to him as "spontaneous and creative" keeping people on their toes to change things all the time.
But to his credit, he is very hands-on with his involvement behind the scenes, instead of just standing behind a camera or somewhere offsite.

The scene with the rally car hitting the guy's face, was a "must do" scene for artistic reasons, and since they spent so much time on something that is 2 seconds on screen, it was on most of the trailers that I saw.

Both Wahlberg and Titus (the pair fighting on the sides of a HK apartment building) are apparently afraid of heights.

According to a number of the actors, Bay has a comedic nature, which is why he has a lot of comedy actors in the TFs movies and does a number of takes for alternate one-liners by the comedians who have their own suggestions... but unfortunately for TF2, it went a bit too far in attempting to squeeze in humour.

The new Optimus Truck is an almost entirely custom built truck body, which will make it impossible for people to find a similar truck and paint it to match.
Galvatron on the other hand is something Australian fans would most easily be able to buy as a truck and paint to match, as it is based on the Australian Freightliner Argosy, only available in Australia and Europe... but not in America due to the height of the cab.


Still another hour of extras to go through yet.

[Sinnertwin]

Well if someone can bring their DVD copy I'm happy to provide the place and foodstuff. Good thing I bought a new flat screen TV. :D

Sounds like a plan :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Good news: the DVD is also region free! The actual disc has region 1 stamped on it, but I've tried it on two different R4 players, and it worked both times! (much to my pleasant surprise) :eek:


Are the borders to the top/bottom, left/right, or both? 5.5cm - what screen size are we talking about? It could be to compensate for overscan, but that's unusual in the days of LCD televisions and blu-ray discs (except for Grease's opening title animation...)
5.5cm on both sides. I watched it on my lounge room TV which is 105cm diagonally or 92cm(W) x 52cm(H). This evening I watched it again on our bedroom TV which is 56cm diagonally, or 50cm(W) x 27cm(H); the funny thing is, I got perfect letterbox on that TV! So it may very well be related to the TV setting or screen size. The thing is, all other movies that I play on our lounge room TV has perfect letterbox. <shrugs> Maybe I need to play around with the settings or something. :confused:


As for subtitles, I suspect it comes down to screen real estate and speed of reading. Unfortunate, but a fact of life.
The reading speed's not an issue, it's just that so much of the text is missing. But maybe it's because it's on a second line which has been cropped off.

[GoktimusPrime]

I played around with my TV settings and have managed to restore a proper letterbox aspect ratio. Thanks for the advice, millhouse! :)

I also just finished watching the special features. The T.J. Miller special feature was incredibly lame... trying so hard to be funny, but just being awkward and annoying. It's like watching the typical "class clown" who thinks that he's utterly hilarious in his mind, but not to anyone else (least of all the audience). Seriously... there's nothing remotely funny in what he does. I'd strongly recommend giving this special feature a wide berth. :rolleyes:

[liegeprime]

Sounds like a plan :D

all that's missing is the date and the dvd... venue is easy :D

[G1Optimal]

I'm just waiting for the regular dvd release.... when it goes on cheaper price as well, not the first $30+ release... it just doesn't interest me for some reason..:rolleyes::rolleyes: I just need to get one, prolly watch it once and keep it for the collection.

Jb hi fi has the dvd version for $19.98 on there web site JB HI FI Link (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/movies-tv-shows/Banners/transformers-4/)

[5FDP]

all that's missing is the date and the dvd... venue is easy :D

Whenever you're free dude. Can't help with the DVD though however if your new TV has a USB slot then we're in business ;)

[griffin]

I watched the rest of the special features on the US set, and one is indeed the video that was recently released as "out-takes" (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=19799), as I had suspected (I guess no one on the global fansites had watched the extras yet to mention it).

Another clip is one I recommend watching for anyone wanting to know how the current toys are designed and made... using computers and 3D printers... over a 2-3 year period. The process has certainly changed since the Hasbro tour in 2007, before 3D printers were used.
If you get this DVD/Bluray set, or if the Australian release has these extras, make sure you watch this one.

And yes, the TJ Miller (or whatever his name is) extra was really sad to watch.

[G1Optimal]

If anyone is interested transformers age of extinction is out in australia as of yesterday at jb hifi and the bonus disc is availble in both the australian versions of the bluray

[5FDP]

I think the only way I'm going to own this on DVD is if someone buys it for me as a gift.

[BigTransformerTrev]

I watched the movie for only the second time a few weeks ago when my BluRay from the states showed up (the one I paid $70 for and now is on sale for $30 :rolleyes:).

Wont review it and go into it as did that months ago, but I will say I enjoyed in the cinemas and on rewatching it at home it's become my second fav live action TF flick. So for me it goes in order of enjoyment: TF, AoE, DOTM, ROTF - or: 1, 4, 3, 2.


Just started watching the extras on the American DVD/Bluray pack.


Got the same pack, but highly doubt I'll ever find sufficient time to watch the extras.

[millhouse]

The reading speed's not an issue, it's just that so much of the text is missing. But maybe it's because it's on a second line which has been cropped off.

Was that the case (image/subs being cropped off screen?).

Glad the ratio advice worked out for you. Also, subtitles are often shortened because the size of them has to work for whatever screen size the movie is playing on - from a 13" notebook to a 60" television. It's a factor worth noting.

My advice? Headphones. :P

[Omega Metro]

BigW have the DVD for $16. Got the 3D BRay version for $29.98 at JB with bonus special features disc.

[AJ_Prime]

Another clip is one I recommend watching for anyone wanting to know how the current toys are designed and made... using computers and 3D printers... over a 2-3 year period. The process has certainly changed since the Hasbro tour in 2007, before 3D printers were used.
If you get this DVD/Bluray set, or if the Australian release has these extras, make sure you watch this one.

+1

I found that part particularly insightful, even though it was only a mere glimpse into a very small part of the entire process, it was still very interesting. I was surprised that the colour matching was done by eye, I would've thought it was computer matched.

[5FDP]

That would be interesting to watch (re: development process using 3D printers). I don't know if I would buy the movie just for that though. Here's hoping the clip ends up on youtube for all to see.

[Robzy]

What an awful movie


Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c97NAlvu3n0&feature=youtu.be)
Everything Wrong with Transformers Age of Extinction Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZHSt1CSgo&feature=youtu.be)


Accurate

[Omega Metro]

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/transformers-sequel-is-biggest-earner/story-e6frfkui-1227171764914

Well deserved! Congrats Mr Bay!

[XMan]

Wow very nice!

Think I'm gonna watch it again this weekend.

[griffin]

So now that Michael Bay is not expected to direct TF5, Peter Cullen has found it safe enough (to keep his job) to finally speak about how he felt the Iconically pure character of Optimus Prime was being corrupted just to tick a few scripting boxes of modern movies (that require heroes to have character flaws and be forced into being a bit too dark - like the last Superman movie, a character who also used to be scripted to never intentionally kill, even to the point of sacrificing themselves, was now scripted to kill).
We had an ensemble cast of Autobots in the Transformers Movies that can still have all the gore and violence... but they could have still kept one as a conflicted pacifist, who always finds a way to avoid killing by just neutralising opponents, and not execute them like Demolishor was. A leader sets the standard of his followers, and if Optimus was so bloodthirsty, are the Autobots any better than Decepticons.

Anyway, enough of my personal rant on the matter... apparently in TF4 the character of Optimus got scripted to be so dark and evil, that even Peter Cullen didn't want to say a certain line (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/peter-cullen-says-transformers-5-6-might-be-less-dark-181828/) (as he used to publicly state how proud he was to be the voice of such a pure and heroic and reliable character).

So my question is, which line might he have been talking about?
I can think of a few, since TF2, but one in AOE seems to have been the one that crossed the line for him.
Was it in the factory when he said he would kill them all, because the character in Transformers History had never intentionally killed a human.

Hasbro used to maintain certain character traits of the iconic names, but when they gave Michael Bay ultimate control of the Movie franchise to buy him back for the second, it's left them with some retconning I think in the next few instalments, to bring him back to the "Superman" standard that every Optimus had before 2009.


Sorry... I grew up during the 80s cartoon era that had a more black and white, good verses evil premise, which gave us pure (reliable) heroes. Because once they go dark intentionally, you can't trust them as a hero anymore... and modern movie/tv writers either don't realise that or aren't allowed to submit stories and heroes that aren't a little dark or psychologically flawed. There's enough main and supporting characters for that to not need all characters to be dark in some way. That's why we had Dinobots in Gen1, to see what Autobots could be like if they weren't classic heroes.

That, and the necessity to kill off someone heroic or closely related to the hero, as if it is the only way to bring tragedy to modern stories. When all it does is alienate fans of that character, who never embrace the show/movie fully ever again.
We saw what it did in 1986 with Transformers and GIJoe both retconning a character death because the "permanent tragedy" requirement of scripts doesn't work, when you can get the same emotional effect from "temporary tragedy" without losing fans. Same happened with the permanent loss of major characters in TFPrime, Animated and even Beast Wars... it leaves a lingering negative tinge to the rest of the series, waiting and hoping for those beloved characters to come back. The Universe is big enough to have major characters leave a show or movie in some plausible way without resorting to them being permanently killed off, if it is going to kill off a portion of your fans and support.

Okay, rant over... for now. :p

[BigTransformerTrev]

So now that Michael Bay is not expected to direct TF5, Peter Cullen has found it safe enough (to keep his job) to finally speak about how he felt the Iconically pure character of Optimus Prime was being corrupted just to tick a few scripting boxes of modern movies (that require heroes to have character flaws and be forced into being a bit too dark - like the last Superman movie, a character who also used to be scripted to never intentionally kill, even to the point of sacrificing themselves, was now scripted to kill).
We had an ensemble cast of Autobots in the Transformers Movies that can still have all the gore and violence... but they could have still kept one as a conflicted pacifist, who always finds a way to avoid killing by just neutralising opponents, and not execute them like Demolishor was. A leader sets the standard of his followers, and if Optimus was so bloodthirsty, are the Autobots any better than Decepticons.

Anyway, enough of my personal rant on the matter... apparently in TF4 the character of Optimus got scripted to be so dark and evil, that even Peter Cullen didn't want to say a certain line (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/peter-cullen-says-transformers-5-6-might-be-less-dark-181828/) (as he used to publicly state how proud he was to be the voice of such a pure and heroic and reliable character).

So my question is, which line might he have been talking about?
I can think of a few, since TF2, but one in AOE seems to have been the one that crossed the line for him.
Was it in the factory when he said he would kill them all, because the character in Transformers History had never intentionally killed a human.

Hasbro used to maintain certain character traits of the iconic names, but when they gave Michael Bay ultimate control of the Movie franchise to buy him back for the second, it's left them with some retconning I think in the next few instalments, to bring him back to the "Superman" standard that every Optimus had before 2009.


Sorry... I grew up during the 80s cartoon era that had a more black and white, good verses evil premise, which gave us pure (reliable) heroes. Because once they go dark intentionally, you can't trust them as a hero anymore... and modern movie/tv writers either don't realise that or aren't allowed to submit stories and heroes that aren't a little dark or psychologically flawed. There's enough main and supporting characters for that to not need all characters to be dark in some way. That's why we had Dinobots in Gen1, to see what Autobots could be like if they weren't classic heroes.

That, and the necessity to kill off someone heroic or closely related to the hero, as if it is the only way to bring tragedy to modern stories. When all it does is alienate fans of that character, who never embrace the show/movie fully ever again.
We saw what it did in 1986 with Transformers and GIJoe both retconning a character death because the "permanent tragedy" requirement of scripts doesn't work, when you can get the same emotional effect from "temporary tragedy" without losing fans. Same happened with the permanent loss of major characters in TFPrime, Animated and even Beast Wars... it leaves a lingering negative tinge to the rest of the series, waiting and hoping for those beloved characters to come back. The Universe is big enough to have major characters leave a show or movie in some plausible way without resorting to them being permanently killed off, if it is going to kill off a portion of your fans and support.

Okay, rant over... for now. :p

Ive got a book Transformers And Philosophy (by Shock & Swan) - in it they talk about Optimus Prime being one of the most uncorrcuptable and iconic heroes of the modern fiction age at length - it makes for good reading.

And I must admit with a certain level of embarrassment that when I read Optimus' bio on the box of the 25th Annniversary reissue of the G1 figure I actually choked up a little - it was moving how they described this noble character.

But the live action movies are such a departure from the normal TF lore than in order to personally enjoy them more I've squared off in my mind the continuity as it's own thing - otherwise I would just geewuner rant about all the problems ad nauseum. And as such I have found it to be a quite interesting departure from the norm for Optimus to get dark. A bit like the Shattered Glass universe. It's a different take on the character and it has been interesting to see how from TF2 onwards he has gotten darker and more callous.

Is it how I would write the character for the movies? Hells no! But its certainly an interesting change of pace.

Like you, I'm very interested to hear what the line refused to say actually is.

(Oh, and I must admit that it was fun to exclaim to my friend when seeing the last movie "F*ck me! Prime just offed Fraiser! :p)

[GoktimusPrime]

Optimus Prime is meant to be one who doesn't believe that the ends can justify the means and is supposed to be above things like vengeance. Movieverse Optimus Prime is arguably a darker character than Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. When Anakin massacred the Tuskens, he confessed his actions to Padmé and collapsed in tears, consumed by the guilt and shame of what he had done. When Anakin beheaded Count Dooku, he immediately said, "I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way." And even after he killed Mace Windu, Anakin fell to his knees and cried, "What have I done?!" And this thought would continue to resonate within Vader's conscience, no matter how hard he tried to bury it and deny it to himself; something which Luke was able to see ("Your thoughts betray you, Father. I feel the good in you, the conflict."), and ultimately it was this continual shame/guilt (i.e. latent sense of morality) that allow Luke to restore Anakin to the Light Side of the Force.

But Movieverse Optimus never shows any sign of any guilt or remorse for the questionable words or actions, rather, his attitude is more akin to Chief Justice Tyrest's attitude of, "Fully deserved."
Executes Demolishor? Fully deserved.
Vows to kill the human responsible for hunting Autobots? Fully deserved.
Of course, Tyrest was intentionally written to be dark character - along with Pharma and Star Sabre, they represent the three pillars of societal corruption (law, medicine and religion respectively). Optimus Prime is not meant to be that kind of character.

Hypothetical rebuttal> "But this is a different universe; different Optimus Prime. Get over your G1 bias."
Okay, fine. But if they're going to make Optimus Prime a dark character, then just bloody do it and be consistent about it. IDW have similarly taken what was originally a noble and altruistic character in Star Sabre, and made him a dark and evil one. But they did it from the get go and never pretended that he was anything else than a religious extremist nut job. Movieverse Optimus Prime, on the other hand, is presented to be the noble and altruistic character akin to his G1 namesake. The first movie very clearly established this, especially with the way that he was willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the AllSpark (whereas Sam used it to kill Megatron, and even then, Prime cried, "No, Sam!"). The Optimus Prime that we see in Revenge of the Fallen and Age of Extinction is a far cry from the Optimus Prime that we saw in TF1.

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=464241#post464241):

Would love to know why but if you can reply in the thread that you mentioned.

Clearly the G1 mythos should of stayed through the character in your opinions.

I detached myself from the different universes. Each Prime is different they just share the name.
Hence why I said...

Hypothetical rebuttal> "But this is a different universe; different Optimus Prime. Get over your G1 bias."
Okay, fine. But if they're going to make Optimus Prime a dark character, then just bloody do it and be consistent about it. IDW have similarly taken what was originally a noble and altruistic character in Star Sabre, and made him a dark and evil one. But they did it from the get go and never pretended that he was anything else than a religious extremist nut job. Movieverse Optimus Prime, on the other hand, is presented to be the noble and altruistic character akin to his G1 namesake. The first movie very clearly established this, especially with the way that he was willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the AllSpark (whereas Sam used it to kill Megatron, and even then, Prime cried, "No, Sam!"). The Optimus Prime that we see in Revenge of the Fallen and Age of Extinction is a far cry from the Optimus Prime that we saw in TF1.

[dsphatlite]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=464241#post464241):

Hence why I said...

Ah damn I was referring to Jetfire. I read your post and the bit at the end.

Should of been clearer, which means should of gone to sleep and posted in the morning.

I love reading other thoughts.

You are correct on the consistency piece though. He was more G1 like in TF than the other films. I was thinking PTSD because if you watch the films there is a undercurrent of negative military themes even though on the surface it seems to support the military. AOE is a good example of this, but more on the surface.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Movieverse Optimus Prime, on the other hand, is presented to be the noble and altruistic character akin to his G1 namesake. The first movie very clearly established this, especially with the way that he was willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the AllSpark (whereas Sam used it to kill Megatron, and even then, Prime cried, "No, Sam!"). The Optimus Prime that we see in Revenge of the Fallen and Age of Extinction is a far cry from the Optimus Prime that we saw in TF1.

YES!

[Jetfire in the sky]

Ah damn I was referring to Jetfire. I read your post and the bit at the end.

Should of been clearer, which means should of gone to sleep and posted in the morning.

I love reading other thoughts.

You are correct on the consistency piece though. He was more G1 like in TF than the other films. I was thinking PTSD because if you watch the films there is a undercurrent of negative military themes even though on the surface it seems to support the military. AOE is a good example of this, but more on the surface.

Oh, just saw this, yeah, pretty much how Gok explained in his post with the comparison with Vader etc.
The first movie portrayed Prime as he should be, then they took a huge steaming dump on his legacy, the Prime I grew up watching was the noble hero. Something that all kids loved. (well in my school)
I get that people like their heroes these days to be flawed, I mean even the older Marvel heroes had flaws but it is more written into stories now to add an edge to a character, to add some darkness, and to me more suitable for teenagers and 20 somethings, rather the under 12's.
I am a Star Wars nut and have loved The Clone Wars series and Rebels series so far and even the great Obi-Wan in TCW has flaws, not necessarily massive dark ones, but they exist, but going from the original movie trilogy you would never guess this, he was the perfect wise man who made the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good, and I think showing his flaws in TCW reflects more modern attitudes in the creation of a character that we have now, so that's why I can definitely see your point.
I was born in 1977 so was the perfect age when He-Man and Transformers started on the TV in Australia to be influenced by what they represented. I grew up with these two ultra heroes and they definitely affected who I became, so that is why I think the TF movies after the first one are a travesty to Prime's character after doing a pretty good job of establishing his G1ness in TF1.

[dsphatlite]

Great replies. I wonder if any of the canon in between the movies sheds any light on the character development.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Great replies. I wonder if any of the canon in between the movies sheds any light on the character development.

I'd be the last person to ask that. I know Star Wars Canon, and cheekily get joy from how Expanded Universe lovers cracked it big time when what is and isn't canon was made clear.

Gok is a TF canon guru imho, although I wonder if there is a Leland Chee (Keeper of the Holocron) equivalent in the TF World somewhere?

[Jetfire in the sky]

I've just back read this thread to Griffins post #297 and was amazed to see such similarities with my earlier post, and BTT in support of the theme.

A good read and one I am glad to have seen as I don't comment on the movies much on here because I mostly focus on the toy side of Transformers these days (although TF Prime is bloody awesome) and I get a little bugged that so many of us who pay out Bay all day long will be the first in the door at the cinema to essentially give him money for f-ing up our passion.

[GoktimusPrime]

Think of the Transformers franchise as a political party. We die-hard Transfans are like people who always vote for the same party at every single election, because we consider ourselves to be absolute loyalists to the brand. The brand may take directions that we don't agree with, but we still stick by it in hope that it will get better, but we never abandon the brand. We got into Transformers in around 1984/85 and have never stopped since.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/meme_giveup_zpsc9a30369.jpg
But much like a political party, the key to the Transformers brand's success is not in winning over our loyalty -- they already have it no matter what happens -- but in winning over 'swinging voters.' People who aren't steadfast die-hard fans. People who have given up Transformers before, and may be willing to do so again (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=18365) if the brand goes in a direction that they displeases them enough. IMHO these "swinging" fans are the ones that the brand needs to work on maintaining, because they're the ones who may very well walk away from the franchise, causing the fanbase to dwindle (which in turn affects the franchise itself). I'm not saying that the Transformers franchise is at all currently in danger of dying off, but it's not absolutely impervious either.

Going back to the discussion about Optimus Prime's persona; the latest issue of Windblade/Combiner Wars features Optimus Prime at a moral crossroad... either option would challenge his core values. This is discussed in more detail here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=464955&postcount=5), but be warned that this post (and the thread itself) contains spoilers. I continue reading the IDW comics because I genuinely enjoy them and I can't wait for each installment to come out. I watch the Michael Bay films because I feel obligated to do so as a TF fan and whenever the next installment comes out, I hope to Primus that my skepticism will be proven wrong. I still anxiously wait to be wrong. :rolleyes: Come on TF5... prove us critics wrong -- I dare you to be good! ;)

[FatalityPitt]

I watched Transformers 4 for the first time last night.

While channel-surfing last night, I managed to chance upon Transformers: AOE on channel 99 (GO!) about 30 minutes into the film. I never thought I’d ever watch it, but given that it’s on and I had free time; I gave it a chance.

I was pleasantly surprised, it wasn’t as bad as I expected, but my expectations weren’t high to begin with.

It still contained hallmarks of a typical Bayformers film; over-the-top destruction porn, sub-intelligent humans who have an ability to fall from great heights and land on broken glass without harm, and the occasional cultural stereotype, etc, etc. But unlike the previous 2 films, it wasn’t a complete torture session. It had some (only SOME!) redeeming features.

Firstly, it was visually beautiful; especially the last act of the film that was shot in China. The scenery was nicely presented (until it got destroyed by big dumb robots!). The Transformers themselves (namely Drift, Crosshairs and Stinger) had beautiful animation models. They had vibrant metallic colours and a smooth fluid-like quality to their movements (not sarcasm!). I think if you’re a GeeWun crowd member like me; to appreciate the visual beauty of the robots, you need to discard any preconceived ideas about how Transformers should look. Basically, just pretend they’re not Transformers. Some of the transformations were nice to look at, like Galvatron’s T1000-ish transformation (I can’t think of a proper description). From a toy designer / fan perspective, it’s a nightmare because it’s physically impossible to replicate that transformation in a plastic toy. But who cares?? It’s not a toy ad, it’s a movie!

Secondly, the other improvements were in the human characters. They were certainly not Oscar material, but they were a step-up from those of the previous 2 films. For me, some of the things that made ROTF and DOTM almost unwatchable were the sheer amounts of unsophisticated humour, embarrassing sexual innuendo, and outrageously dumb characters that make Mr. Bean look like Benedict Cumberbatch’s Sherlock Holmes!

(Side note: I now understand why Shia LeBouff had his public meltdown. What happens when you take a dedicated method actor and make him play Sam Witwicky in ROTF? The best possible response: This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo)).

Sure, the humans in AoE were also outrageously dumb at times, but I didn’t experience as much cringe-worthiness from them as I did from previous movies. They were just OK. Besides, a little bit of dumbness is excusable in this case, given that it’s supposed to be a fun Sci-Fi Adventure Comedy.

I thought they used Fan Bingbing quite well. It wasn’t an Oscar-worthy performance, but her role was a lot more impressive than the one she had in X-Men DOFP (which I think is the 2nd best movie after Deadpool in Fox’s X-Men Film franchise. FYI – I’ve still not seen Logan yet, but my expectations are high). As far as human characters were concerned, I thought Fan Bingbing did a decent job.

I think to enjoy this film, you got to put away your common sense (and preconceived notions about Transformers). It’s not Oscar material, but it’s a fun ride if you don’t take it too seriously.

I can see Michael Bay’s attempt at making a “respectable-enough” Transformers film, but fundamentally; he’s not the director/producer you’d want for a serious movie with a deep intelligent plot. If you want to experience such a story that involves Transformers, best bet would be to read some of the IDW comics like Sins of the Wreckers, etc… Actually, that wouldn’t be a bad story to adapt into a film..

---------------------------------------

Oh yeah, and if you think this is Mark Walberg's worst performance, then I challenge you to watch these 3 clips in a row without laughing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2r_qjEHf7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuus2oOseXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhmEo-46vUQ
(FYI - They're not from a comedy!)

[GoktimusPrime]

I struggled to stay awake while watching it last night, no joke. It's a great movie to watch if you're having insomnia. :p

Btw, Su Yueming's actress is Li Bingbing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bingbing). Fan Bingbing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_Bingbing) did play Blink in X-Men Days of Future Past though. You confused your Bingbings, you ding-ding! :p :o

[FatalityPitt]

Btw, Su Yueming's actress is Li Bingbing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bingbing). Fan Bingbing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_Bingbing) did play Blink in X-Men Days of Future Past though. You confused your Bingbings, you ding-ding! :p :o

<... Thinking hard how to respond...>

I got nothing. Yes, you're 100% right.

I got my Bingbings mixed up. Li Bingbing (the Chinese lady in TF4:AOE) was not in X-Men DOFP.

<... Eats a spoonful of humble pie..>