Universe Ironhide in Package

[kup]

http://pic.tf08.net/content/view/139_62.html

http://v.886.cn/5jJq/136498667/136498667_15991_b.jpg

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/universe-classics-20-29/universe-ironhide-in-package-back-of-card-and-bio-165584/




I can't say that I am impressed. They have neglected to paint the edges of the joining window pieces making them look as if someone spray painted pinky red lines across them on the alt mode. I am not sure if Takara will do better in this regard but I suspect they will.

Another thing that annoys me is that they have screwed up the bio, it fits Kup more than Ironhide. The Botcon Bio was much more superior.

[GoktimusPrime]

That first link timed out for me and I couldn't see anything. :(

Actually, the Universe bio is reasonably similar to Ironhide's original G1 tech specs. Both Ironhide and Kup are pretty similar personalities - which is why they both have similar designs in The War Within. :) The main difference is that most younger Autobots don't seem to care about Kup's old war stories as much ('cept the Dinobots). ;)



Ironhide was built at a time when armour was thick, and circuitry was simple. He is the oldest of the Autobots, tested in thousands of battles, over countless centuries. He has been injured many times, but never deactivated. For every scratch and scar that he bears he has a tale to tell, and most of the younger Autobots are all too eager to hear them. Gruff, and sometimes grumpy, he is also naturally protective of the other Autobots. He is rough, tough, and nearly impossible to damage.

"High tech circuitry is no replacement for guts."
"Go chew on a microchip!" is Ironhide's slogan. Prefers action to words. Oldest, toughest, most battle-tested Autobot. Bodyguard to Optimus Prime. In charge of guarding anything of importance. Gruff, but kind. Trithyllium-steel skin makes him nearly invulnerable to attack. Shoots variety of liquids from supercooled nitrogen to superheated lead. Has sonar, radar, radiowave detector. Slowest and most fragile of the group.


"The past is the greatest teacher."
Kup is an old veteran warhorse with a thousand tall tales from his ten thousand adventures. He has a motto or word of advice for any situation and he's as brave and loyal as they come. In robot mode, he carries an old-style musket laser that shoots short bursts of metal corrosive hydrochloric acid. Range: 8 kilometres. Speed: 160km/h. Kup sees himself as a seasoned campaigner with more knowledge and experience to share. Other Autobots aren't always receptive to his advice.

[kup]

That first link timed out for me and I couldn't see anything. :(

Actually, the Universe bio is reasonably similar to Ironhide's original G1 tech specs. Both Ironhide and Kup are pretty similar personalities - which is why they both have similar designs in The War Within. :) The main difference is that most younger Autobots don't seem to care about Kup's old war stories as much ('cept the Dinobots). ;)

I see where you are coming from but calling Ironhide "the oldest Autobot" kills it in the Universe. In G1 it was ok, since at the time they were referring to Earthbound Autobots, it doesn't work retroactively after Kup has been introduced and established and the G1 universe expanded beyond Earth events.

After that it feels that they are talking more about Kup than Ironhide.

Note: First link works fine for me, I will try to find another.

[Pulse]

Couldn't all his windows be clear? :confused:

[kup]

Couldn't all his windows be clear? :confused:

Probably not because of the nature of the mold. My question is:

Couldn't they have painted the rear windows Black instead of fluro bright blue?

[MV75]

And yet again, the shots on the back look nothing like the toy.

I'm passing on any version of jigsaw ironhide.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Henkei again it seems.

[kup]

And yet again, the shots on the back look nothing like the toy.

I'm passing on any version of jigsaw ironhide.

I will wait for Henkei's pics before I make up my mind in which version I get (but will more than likely be Henkei if the recent pattern continues) but the toy being Ironhide will force me to buy it even if I hate the mold.

The same thing happened with Powerglide. I am getting the toy because of the character but hate the mold.

[jaydisc]

I think Takara has really dropped the ball on some of the new Universe figure mold designs with all of these gaps, with Ironhide and Prowl (and thus Ratchet and Silverstreak) being the biggest offenders. Doesn't really matter how they're painted when they have > 1mm gaps all over the place.

[Pulse]

I would probably classify myself as a classics/henkei-aholic... :) :o

So even though 'Ol Ironhide's altmode may be a jigsaw puzzle & his botmode may not be perfect, I'd be kidding myself if I said I wasn't gonna acquire him
(yep, they've hooked me good :D)

[jaydisc]

I would probably classify myself as a classics/henkei-aholic... :) :o

So even though 'Ol Ironhide's altmode may be a jigsaw puzzle & his botmode may not be perfect, I'd be kidding myself if I said I wasn't gonna acquire him
(yep, they've hooked me good :D)

I should add the same thing. The Henklassics are the greatest thing ever for an older collector that appreciates modern tooling, which is what I am. I'm not vexed with the need to make a choice between Hasbro or Takara, as I simply get both. :D

[MV75]

I will wait for Henkei's pics before I make up my mind in which version I get (but will more than likely be Henkei if the recent pattern continues) but the toy being Ironhide will force me to buy it even if I hate the mold.

The same thing happened with Powerglide. I am getting the toy because of the character but hate the mold.

Ok, fairy nuff. :)

I just don't like the moulds for it, so I'm skipping any version. Besides, I have my G1 versions to cuddle for the character instead. :)

So yea, my short list for this universe line is very select indeed.

[Zippo]

I don't like the baby blue on the windows, but I like the mold..

[Lord_Zed]

Wow!

Ironhide has a head! That alone may make me buy him. The Hasbro version needs some fixing up, wonder if the Henkei version will be any better? Pretty average either way don't think it matters to much which I get for this fella

[i_amtrunks]

Wow!

Ironhide has a head!

It's kinda freaky, almost wrong isnt it? :D

I'm not liking the blue windows, but otherwise he looks good.

[kup]

More Ironhide Pics:

http://www.tfclub.com/art/20080828010302_8781.html

Hasbro's paint job may be lacking specially when the figure requires precision painting on the alt mode's windows but I must say, the mold in robot mode looks damn good.

I am also impressed by the detailed head, it looks fantastic. I can't wait for the release of this mold by Takara.

[kurdt_the_goat]

I wonder how long until Hasbro exhausts it's supply of baby blue paint!

[Pulse]

Ironhide looks like a bee-you-tee-full sculpt! I can't wait to nab him... :)

[1orion2many]

At the end of the day these are toys designed for kids, the more colour the more attractive it is to the younger audience I am guessing where the windows are concerned with the blue colouring. In general i like the Classics/Universe line and don't believe there is a major problem where colouring is concerned. The Henkei aren't any better they are just a different colour so it then just comes down to personal preference.

[i_amtrunks]

I see that the weapon has the gimmick on it now, one way its a cannon, flip it around however and its a sword.
Wonder if we will be seeing more gimmick based weapons, rather than gimmicks loaded into the figures themselves?

Blue face is kinda offputting (as well as the horrible windows) but I suppose they had to do something with all the Allspark blue paint they bought.

[GoktimusPrime]

I wonder how long until Hasbro exhausts it's supply of baby blue paint!
Remember when Hasbro was going crazy with bright day-glo yellow? Now they're going whacky with baby blue... I dread what's next. :/


At the end of the day these are toys designed for kids, the more colour the more attractive it is to the younger audience I am guessing where the windows are concerned with the blue colouring.
Being made for kids doesn't justify bad taste in colours and excessive use of brightness! With some notable exceptions (e.g.: Masterpiece, Binaltech, G1 reissues, KISS Play etc) most Transformer action figure lines are made for kids, including ones in Japan (even though Takara does appear to cater better for collectors their primary market is definitely children - the Henkei comics are clearly targetted at young children (when it comes to TF comics I absolutely prefer those made in English-speaking countries over those from Japan, other than convention-exclusive manga of course)).

G1 was made for kids and it's not as if it was dominated by bright and awful colours for the majority of its run. We did get some horrific colours toward the end (e.g. Turbomasters) though. But it's not as if say Seaspray was coloured with day-glo yellow and baby blue! ;p

[kup]

The bright colors are not there necessarily for the benefit of the end consumer but there so that it looks like a product that would stand out on a store's shelf.

Hasbro's costumers are not end consumers, its the retail stores. Retail stores want items that will be noticed by browsing shoppers. So the bright colors are not really an artistic choice but rather a marketing one.

I personally would not mind the bright window colors so much in Ironhide. What annoys me is that they neglected to paint the edges of the windows and as a result the alt mode looks as if it has 'broken' windows as you can clearly see the red lines of the unpainted edges.

There is also a chance that Takara may make the same neglect in Henkei. I have also notice the same sort of 'unpainted edges' neglect in Binaltech Asterix Alert. Some of its black parts that come together in the car mode show an out of place white line between pieces when its supposed to have the illusion of a solid surface. I have painted the edges black since then to maintain that illusion in car mode on my now converted Binaltech Prowl.

I will still wait for the Takara version and will possibly get it since they will likely use a more G1 solid red as they have done with Henkei Prime as well as possible added painted detailings.

[kurdt_the_goat]

I agree with kup, but will add that 20 years ago, G1 toys were competing with other toys that followed the shelf stylings of that time. Put G1 toys on the shelves today, against myriad other brands dominated by bright colours, and they'd be lost. The market has changed and so forced their hand. Japan is different; there's so much on the shelves (and packaging so busy) that everything is lost regardless of colours ;)

[kup]

I understand their motivations for their bright colors but I don't necessarily agree with it nor I endorse it. I personally believe that a good product will sell itself on its own merits.

Normally the bright colors look garish as hell and even though they are effective at standing out on a shelf, it hardly means that I will buy it. When I was a kid, I hated the G2 repaints because of the colors and even at the age of ten, I found the 1990 Action Master Orange as horrible so I am unsure how effective these bright colors are with the current generation of kids.

[liegeprime]

Well I think at least they didn't mess up with him being generally a RED vehicle, unlike what they did with Powerglide... guess they still at times pay attention to that much detail.. sometimes. makes me wonder , As Hasbro likes to save up on cost of Production always, will ratchet end up white or just plain blank gray plastic with a bit of red here and there?

[Pulse]

As Hasbro likes to save up on cost of Production always, will ratchet end up white or just plain blank gray plastic with a bit of red here and there?

As far as we know, it looks as though we're only gonna get a Henkei Ratchet (Atleast we know TakaraTomy aren't very likely to screw his paintjob up :))

[MV75]

I don't agree. It's not any form of "subliminal advertising through bright colours", which doesn't exist, it's to do with brand awareness and character recognition.

Does Lego use fluro orange/pink/yellow/green for all of their bricks? Heck no, they are a brand that everyone knows.

What about other movie franchises? They are recognised as the characters from the movies.

So no, colour has very very little to nothing to do with moving inventory. Recognition of the packaging and toyline does, plus position in the store. The movies and the cartoons are what does the sell, the choice of what colour beads to add to the plastic mix doesn't. You guys fail at selling. :D

[kup]

I don't agree. It's not any form of "subliminal advertising through bright colours", which doesn't exist, it's to do with brand awareness and character recognition.

Does Lego use fluro orange/pink/yellow/green for all of their bricks? Heck no, they are a brand that everyone knows.

What about other movie franchises? They are recognised as the characters from the movies.

So no, colour has very very little to nothing to do with moving inventory. Recognition of the packaging and toyline does, plus position in the store. The movies and the cartoons are what does the sell, the choice of what colour beads to add to the plastic mix doesn't. You guys fail at selling. :D

Yeah I agree with all of the above regarding what actually sells a toy and that is why I don't understand the strong push for unnecessary and out of place fluro colors in Hasbro Transformers.

[Pulse]

Don't Toy Companies try to make the packaging as attractive/appealing as possible to make it stand out from the competition?

"Mummy! Can I please get that toy? Please? Please?"

[kup]

Don't Toy Companies try to make the packaging as attractive/appealing as possible to make it stand out from the competition?

"Mummy! Can I please get that toy? Please? Please?"

Hasbro does that too which makes the fluro on the actual figure a bit redundant.

Although Hasbro's packaging is a bit extreme (with twist ties, over sized boxes relative to content, etc) They generally do a good job in making attractive boxes that stand out positively even though it can be hard to tell individual figures apart at a distance when they are all stacked together.

However I still like the Takara packaging better as it stands out the same or better but feels much more elegant in execution as the individual figures stand out more with no 'tricky' attempt at making a figure seem 'larger' than it actually is through the size of the packaging.

[liegeprime]

Yeah. Thats why they spend so much research... on packaging rather than the toy itself. which gives rise to even more incentive for MISB, MISC collectors due to the beauty of the packaging. but is such a bummer for people like me who is more into the toy itself and after the pretty packaging is all broken and opened, I look at the toy and say " Crap!, Ive been had... again!:mad::(:("

[Pulse]

I know exactly what you mean when comparing how much extra space Hasbro pack into their packaging compared to TakaraTomy...

Case in point - Animated Voyagers. The boxes are huuuuuge while the figures only take up a 3rd of the space... :rolleyes:

TakaraTomy Beasties Rampage/Heinlad/Stampy (of which I only received 2 days ago) - their packaging was much more compact in relativity to the size of the figures.

I believe Toy Companies can make their customers alot more content by doing one main thing = listening & responding to Customer Feedback :)




(Sorry, getting away from thread topic again, Sorry)

[kup]

Going back to Ironhide,

I just noticed that the crotch part is HUGE, like if he wants to be the next G1 Megatron.

Its a bit distracting but not a killer. However that may be just the pics or the way he was transformed.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Ironhide always had brass ball-bearings after all :D

[FFN]

I'll wait for the Henkei version. That light blue is a really bad match for the darker blue plastic.

I don't think Tomy will paint those edges, because they're part of his transformation. The paint will come off if they paint them. However, depending on what sprue they are on, perhaps Tomy will cast all the red panels that make up his arms (and thus the roof) transparent blue, painted red? That way you can clear windows that match - think Movie 1976 Bumblebee. Obviously their original plan was for him to be exactly the same as Tomy's version, as we saw a clear-window test shot back in 2006.


I know exactly what you mean when comparing how much extra space Hasbro pack into their packaging compared to TakaraTomy...

Case in point - Animated Voyagers. The boxes are huuuuuge while the figures only take up a 3rd of the space... :rolleyes:

TakaraTomy Beasties Rampage/Heinlad/Stampy (of which I only received 2 days ago) - their packaging was much more compact in relativity to the size of the figures.

I believe Toy Companies can make their customers alot more content by doing one main thing = listening & responding to Customer Feedback :)

(Sorry, getting away from thread topic again, Sorry) Hasbro doesn't have flexible price points like Tomy (and Japan) does due to the different markets. From what I understand, fixed price points are preferred by retailers.

From the TF Wiki's article on size classes: (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Size_class)
"The logic behind size classes is simple; retailers can order a case of toys, knowing exactly how much they will sell for and exactly how much shelf space they will occupy. All the Deluxes in a line have identically-sized packaging and cost the same price. When you run out of Deluxes, you order a new case and put them right back where they belong."

It likely also preferred by Hasbro's budget deparment, as the designers can know the limit of what they can do for a toy at a given size class/price point by how much budget the toy gets depending on how much the toy will be sold for.

The size class also determines plastic amount/weight, which is generally strictly adhered to by Hasbro. When you see big, gigantic Hasbro packaging, the reason is threefold:

1. Hasbro wants the packaging to be (reasonably) big, eye-catching and attractive so customers will pick it up and investigate.
2. Its so they can fit various vehicle modes into packaging that are different sizes and proportions. Eg, Animated Starscream compared to Bulkhead.
3. Its more cost-effective to create standardised packaging for size classes rather than custom individually-sized packaging for every single figure.


As for twist ties, they're there to protect the toy from falling out of the packaging tray and being damaged during transit, storage and retailing. Another reason is to protect against theft. Thieves are less likely to steal a toy if there's 50 billion twist ties holding the figure to its tray.

I can only deduce that there's far less of a shoplifting problem in Japan.

[GoktimusPrime]

Japan has the 2nd lowest crime rate in the world. Twist-ties suck... Hasbro add a buttload of them to deter shoplifters and simultaneously inconveniencing the rest of us who buy the toys honestly. :/ Theft prevention should be the store's responsibility rather than the manufacturer. Look at DVDs/CDs; it's up to the store in terms of what measures they want to use to prevent theft. Some stores will place a security lock/tag on the case which activates a store alarm, whilst others only display empty cases and will only give you the disc upon purchase. As a regular consumer I just don't like being inconvenienced for the actions of others. :/

And Takara/TOMY does have 'fixed' price points like Hasbro does. The actual sale price is determined by the retailer but they do have recommended retail prices (which you can see on TakaraTOMY's web site)
e.g.:
http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/products/marvel/images/ironman.jpg (http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/products/marvel.html)
As you can see Iron Man's RRP is 3675JPY. You can find it sold at different prices depending on where you shop but that's the general price. In my experience I've never seen Transformers sold above RRP in Japan. It's always either exactly on RRP or under but I've never seen it sold for above RRP.

[dirge]

Japan has the 2nd lowest crime rate in the world.


And the Vatican City has the highest :)



Twist-ties suck... Hasbro add a buttload of them to deter shoplifters and simultaneously inconveniencing the rest of us who buy the toys honestly. :/ Theft prevention should be the store's responsibility rather than the manufacturer.


Keep in mind that Hasbro pitches the toys to the stores, who they view as their customer (rather than the end consumer). If they can convince the retail buyer that the toys are unlikely to suffer shrinkage, it's increasing their chances of a sale.

I'm not agreeing with it, but I understand while Hasbro it. I don't care anyway, I just use tinsnips and have them off in a few seconds :D

[Pulse]

I don't care anyway, I just use tinsnips and have them off in a few seconds :D

But when you're trying to open a Titanium figure, those cable/twist ties like to jab into your fingers nice & sharp... :o

[SilverDragon]

Remember when Hasbro was going crazy with bright day-glo yellow? Now they're going whacky with baby blue... I dread what's next. :/


ELECTRIC PIIIIIIIIIINK!!!!

...I've just jinxed us all, haven't I?

[GoktimusPrime]

That'd work if they gave us a Classics-Universe Barricade, Roller Force or Thunderclash! :D

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/3/34/G1BarricadeBoxart.jpg/200px-G1BarricadeBoxart.jpghttp://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/9/9a/RollerForceBoxart.jpg/190px-RollerForceBoxart.jpghttp://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/0/0f/G1thunder_clash_boxart.jpg/250px-G1thunder_clash_boxart.jpg
:cool:

http://zunescene.mobi/forums/avatars/All%20Transformers/Avatars_Transformers_Barricade.jpg Thank goodness Hasbro's never done a G1 repaint of movie Barricade! :p

[FFN]

Chinese TF Club posted pics of Universe Ironhide, but I'm reluctant to link them here just in case they never bothered to fix that malware problem.

BTW, Ironhide isn't supposed to have a MEGACROTCH. Nearly all pics (official and not official) have mistransformed his waist in some manner or other, giving him a huge codpiece.

This is how the codpiece is supposed to look (picture by Peaugh at TFW2005):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a355/BenjaminDolle/Universe%20Ironhide/DSCF0011.jpg



And Takara/TOMY does have 'fixed' price points like Hasbro does. The actual sale price is determined by the retailer but they do have recommended retail prices (which you can see on TakaraTOMY's web site)
e.g.:

As you can see Iron Man's RRP is 3675JPY. You can find it sold at different prices depending on where you shop but that's the general price. In my experience I've never seen Transformers sold above RRP in Japan. It's always either exactly on RRP or under but I've never seen it sold for above RRP. Then I retract my comment. I think I confused myself from memory of Hirofumi Ichikawa's story of designing Energon Wing Saber. I recall he said Hasbro had much stricter, fixed budget price points for figures and strict restrictions on toy dimensions so they can fit inside boxes, while Takara could go over what was usually spent if necessary (and obviously can custom tailor a box to go with a particular toy).

[GoktimusPrime]

The original prototype for Godbomber in G1 was abandoned in favour of the one we got because it exceeded set the set budget price point that Takara wanted for that figure in 1988. Anyone who has Godbomber will know that it's a pretty ordinary figure - essentially just a configurable accessory pack for Ginrai. The prototype looks way cooler but would've exceeded manufacturing/retail costs.

The same happened with Ginrai/PM Prime too - initially Takara had designed Super Ginrai/Prime's head to transform into a roller buggy, but that was scrapped as it would've exceeded costs. That's why PM Prime and Ginrai's trailer actually has a small compartment that can fit the super-robot head... it was initially designed so that the head could roll in and out in buggy mode. It still does fit the head in there for storage. :)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/ginrai_prototype.jpg abandoned prototype for PM Prime/Ginrai's super robot head

[FFN]

Is that the crazy design that would have been the most gimmick-loaded Transformer of the time? Headmaster, triple-changer and combiner.

I can see the influences this design (and God Ginrai overall) had on the similarly abandoned Euro Autobot leader Hyperdrive. (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive_%28Autobot%29)

[dirge]

I think dumping the extra cost for God Bomber was the right idea - even with the extra touches, he would have sucked just as much.

[liegeprime]

Just a link to ironhide review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEywg0wKDz4&feature=related