Universe 2.0 - Repaints

[MV75]

Let's post repaints of other lines into Universe 2.0 here.


http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/universe-classics-20-29/first-look-new-transformers-universe-whirl-sandstorm-and-optimus-prime-on-ebay-165645/

Apparently.

So here we go again, crap use of names/factions. Probably won't even get the lot to combine them either.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Meh, I'm not fazed by repaints, I highly doubt that Whirl and Sandstorm would ever be popular enough to warrant a new mold each. I'd like that but I'm realistic. That Prime looks good, but I wish they still gave him a mini-con

[kup]

I like Whirl but having him as a Decepticon totally ruins him. Both Prime and Sandstorm seem rather redundant.

The whole set has a 'repaint for the sake of repaint' feel rather than something creative with an existing mold.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Hmm didn't realise Whirl and co were 'cons.
Silly.

[Pulse]

A newish Transfan once asked me why there was so much hate directed towards specific individuals working at Hasbro... :rolleyes:

[Golden Phoenix]

I'm usually not a fan of repainting something without the rest of it, but damn that Prime looks awesome. That is what he should have originally been like when they first released him in Armada. Just wish he game with either mini-con sparkplug or over-run. Over-run preferably because it has more uses.

[i_amtrunks]

So the Universe "trick" of switching characters allegiances begins anew.

Bugger.

[jaydisc]

It's "Shattered Glass" Whirl. :D

[dirge]

Heh, you're very forgiving, Jay.

I can't say either Whirl or Sandstorm really appeal to me, but the colour schemes look... okay. Maybe if they were Autobots.

I've seen enough of that Prime mould - as Prime. Pass.

Guys, regardless of what we think of the repaints, can we refrain personal insults directed at Hasbro staff? Criticise Hasbro if you like, but insulting specific people is not on.

[Pipesqueak]

I don't have that helicopter mould, so for me it's about deciding which colour scheme I like best to add one to my Energon collection.

[FFN]

Its quite possible those two combiners were incorrectly assigned as Universe toys by this eBay seller. Last I checked, Universe doesn't even have a basic/scout class price point (Legends, Deluxe, Voyager, Ultra, Supreme), unless these are exclusives of some sort.

The fact that the seller titles the auction for the Deluxe class Armada Prime toy as 'G1', 'Animated' and 'Universe' suggests they are possibly unsure what exactly the toys are for.

[Soundwarp]

OK Sandstorm has now PEEVED ME OFF a lot!
Tripple changer anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GoktimusPrime]

So boycott universe for Henkei? ;)

[STL]

Can't say much for the name choices but I do look the two helicopters. Great scout figures in my opinion and very nice colour schemes.

[GoktimusPrime]

I must say that the incorrect allegiance thing is totally Ritalin-tarded. (-_-) :mad:

[Paulbot]

Where have the names come from? An Ebay seller who has got his hands on loose prototypes (through whatever means).

People always jump to conclusions :rolleyes:

[G1Optimal]

looks like there will be a Energon Combiner repaint of "Superion Maximus".....

Link (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/universe-classics-20-29/transformers-universe-classics-superion-maximus-energon-repaint-165658/)
Source:TFW2005 (http://www.tfw2005.com)

[kup]

looks like there will be a Energon Combiner repaint of "Superion Maximus".....

Link (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/universe-classics-20-29/transformers-universe-classics-superion-maximus-energon-repaint-165658/)
Source:TFW2005 (http://www.tfw2005.com)

That looks interesting if they are portraying G1 Aerialbots but I need better pics to get a proper look.

[jaydisc]

Interesting. They also theorize that "Whirl" and "Sandstorm" are rather "Vortex" and "Blast Off". I like it. Looks like I'll have to put my desires for Energon Bruticus and Superion on hold for now.

[Soundwarp]

The colours are just so wrong!

[kup]

The colours are just so wrong!

Agreed when it comes to the 'Whirl and Sandstorm' toys if they are indeed meant to represent Combaticons.

Aerialbots remains to be seen, need better pic.

[GoktimusPrime]

I agree with Soundwarp - especially with "Whirl" - when I see a blue helicopter I think of Whirl, not Vortex who was grey. And the shades used for the other one are more reminiscent of Machine Wars Sandstorm than with Blast Off.

[lcz128]

I'm totally looking forward to combiners in Universe! :D Woo! They *are* awesome as combiners - so I can't wait!

[SilverDragon]

Wooo, combiners! I've been interested in the concept, so if this turns out to be true, than I can get my hands on one. :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Combiner:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/4/40/ReflectorCartoon1.jpg/170px-ReflectorCartoon1.jpghttp://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/a/a1/BlackoutSpaceshotToys.jpg/150px-BlackoutSpaceshotToys.jpg

Gestalt:
http://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/Avatars_Transformers_Devastator.jpghttp://www.transformertoys.co.uk/img/transformers-toys/japanese/brestmaster/liokaiser/preview.jpg

(/retention)

[Pulse]

looks like there will be a Energon Combiner repaint of "Superion Maximus".....

Link (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/universe-classics-20-29/transformers-universe-classics-superion-maximus-energon-repaint-165658/)
Source:TFW2005 (http://www.tfw2005.com)

Squinty!

I wish there was a bigger picture...

[jaydisc]

Combiner:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/4/40/ReflectorCartoon1.jpg/170px-ReflectorCartoon1.jpghttp://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/a/a1/BlackoutSpaceshotToys.jpg/150px-BlackoutSpaceshotToys.jpg

Gestalt:
http://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/Avatars_Transformers_Devastator.jpghttp://www.transformertoys.co.uk/img/transformers-toys/japanese/brestmaster/liokaiser/preview.jpg

(/retention)

I, and the TF Wiki (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Gestalt) disagree. Gestalts are a SUBSET of Combiners.

[autobreadticon]

very excited for this superion combiner set !!!

[MV75]

I, and the TF Wiki (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Gestalt) disagree. Gestalts are a SUBSET of Combiners.

The pictures and Goks description lines up with what your link says, so you're not trying to argue with him are you? ;)

[jaydisc]

The pictures and Goks description lines up with what your link says, so you're not trying to argue with him are you? ;)

Actually, I interpreted Gok's imagery and comments as him saying that the other posts here that refer to Superion or Bruticus as a "Combiner" are incorrect, as they should be referred to as "Gestalts".

I also interpreted gok as saying they were different, which I disagree, as one is a subset of the other.

How did you interpret it?

Moreover, Gok, what did you mean?

[MV75]

I interpreted it exactly as his pictures.

You realise the top two form things right? A camera and a ship, and the bottom ones form a whole new robot.

Combiner, Gesault. Not a hard nut to crack. ;)

[jaydisc]

You realise the top two form things right? A camera and a ship, and the bottom ones form a whole new robot.

I sure do :). It seems to me that he's trying to communicate there's a difference between the two.


I interpreted it exactly as his pictures.

What does that mean? :o

Anyway, might be best if we let Gok say what Gok meant. :p

[MV75]

There is a difference. I can't believe I have to use your own evidence against you.

Ok, combiners:

Combiner
As above, a member of a group of Transformers who assemble into a composite form. Also refers to that composite form itself.

EG: Reflector.


Gesaults:

Gestalt
Fan-terminology for a certain class of combiners -- generally used only for "big robot" combiners with emergent personalities.

EG: Devastator.

I hope that puts us on the same page now. :)


But, personally I call them combiners no matter what. That is my personal belief, if they combine, well, they are combiners. ;)

[jaydisc]

OK, but you have to promise me... this is the last time ;)

Gestalt
Fan-terminology for a certain class of combiners

EG: Bruticus or Superion

Combiner
As above, a member of a group of Transformers who assemble into a composite form.

EG: Bruticus or Superion

While Gestalt is a fine term to use to refer to Bruticus or Superion, SO IS "Combiner"!

Subset. Subset! Say it..... Subset (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=define:subset&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)!

Now leave me alone and let Gok speak for himself.

[Paulbot]

This arguement has been had before (it was me and Goktimus disagreeing last time) do we really need to retread it?

[MV75]

Subset? That's just your incorrect use of a word, because how can bruticus be a subset of bruticus?

I think the term you are after, which we both have quoted, is "Fan terminology".

As for Combiner being fine to use, well heck, what did I say about what I call them all? :p Why you want to fight on that point, I don't know. Is there an invisible war I'm not aware of going on? :D

Yes Paulbot, you had your turn, now it's ours. You don't need to join in if you don't want to. :)

[STL]

http://www.cybph.com/archives/387

Reported on both the major sites. A reason to love Hasbro for once.

[jaydisc]

Does it combine? It's a combiner. Re-read posts to see use of word subset. I don't want to fight. I said that three times. Much love.

[Demonac]

It really doesn't matter what you call them.
Gok's 'gestalt' Bruticus is the same as MV75's 'combiner' bruticus.

[MV75]

Does it combine? It's a combiner.

Finally. :) Yes, we agree. :)

[jaydisc]

That's all I've ever been saying. It's Gok's imagery that seemingly said different.

[Soundwarp]

Potato

Potarto

It's all a bit meh.

I am keen as heck to see combiner/Gestalts but i could KILL for new moulds!

[Pulse]

I am keen as heck to see combiner/Gestalts but i could KILL for new moulds!

I hear ya!

That "Classics Devastator" (http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/toys/classics/devastator/1179/) is not the Classics Devastator we should have gotten... :rolleyes:

[kup]

I would prefer new molds too but I can live with a Superion Maximus repaint as long as the G1 tribute is done properly in the color scheme.

Archer said at Botcon that they will not be doing combiner Gestalts because they are too difficult to develop or something. I am more inclined to think that they don't want Gestalts because they would actually need to focus on their transfomation and design instead of stupid gimmicks.

[G1Optimal]

......Archer said at Botcon that they will not be doing combiner Gestalts because they are too difficult to develop or something. I am more inclined to think that they don't want Gestalts because they would actually need to focus on their transfomation and design instead of stupid gimmicks.

If that turns out to be true, i thought the idea of combining into a bigger robot was the gimmick.....:D

[kup]

If that turns out to be true, i thought the idea of combining into a bigger robot was the gimmick.....:D

Yeah but that is a smart gimmick. They now seem to prefer the model of an electronic box with a transformer wrapped around it instead. This is not always a bad thing as sometimes its pulled off fairly elegantly but sadly it encourages laziness in design and more often than not it ends in awful toys.

[Paulbot]

I'd have preferred it if they mixed up the teams for Universe. The thing I disliked most about the Energon teams was that there were only three unique toys per giant robot;
so for instance using the Decepticon helicopter as one of the limbs of a Universe 2.0 Superion set would make it more interesting -- but they are still short another flying vehicle to make up the fifth spot.

[G1Optimal]

Yeah but that is a smart gimmick. They now seem to prefer the model of an electronic box with a transformer wrapped around it instead. This is not always a bad thing as sometimes its pulled off fairly elegantly but sadly it encourages laziness in design and more often than not it ends in awful toys.

Yeah i know, i would of preferred more poseability over electronics in some of them

"sometimes, i even wonder if it would of been better it they added a separate electronic box instead..... :confused:"

[GoktimusPrime]

(FACTS)
1/ In G1 the word "Combiner" = multiple robots who transformed into a single alt mode, e.g.: Blackout and Space Shot combine to form a jet.
2/ Until 2001 there was never an official term of sub-groups of Transformers that merged into a super robot, e.g.: Devastator, Superion etc., although those sub-groups were officially known as "Special Teams."
3/ Around 1994 the word "gestalt" had entered common fan lingo used to describe the combined form of the Special Teams and to avoid confusion and ambiguity with what Hasbro had officially defined as Combiners.
4/ In 2001 Hasbro used the word Combiners to define gestalts in RiD.
(/FACTS)

________________________________

(OPINION)
The term "combiner" is confusing and ambiguous because it has been officially used by Hasbro to describe two entirely different kinds of Transformers. To avoid confusion and ambiguity it is better to continue using the fan-term "gestalt" when referring to the combined Special Teams super-robots and the term "combiner" according to the definition established in Generation 1.
(/OPINION)

[kup]

(FACTS)
1/ In G1 the word "Combiner" = multiple robots who transformed into a single alt mode, e.g.: Blackout and Space Shot combine to form a jet.
2/ Until 2001 there was never an official term of sub-groups of Transformers that merged into a super robot, e.g.: Devastator, Superion etc., although those sub-groups were officially known as "Special Teams."
3/ Around 1994 the word "gestalt" had entered common fan lingo used to describe the combined form of the Special Teams and to avoid confusion and ambiguity with what Hasbro had officially defined as Combiners.
4/ In 2001 Hasbro used the word Combiners to define gestalts in RiD.
(/FACTS)

________________________________

(OPINION)
The term "combiner" is confusing and ambiguous because it has been officially used by Hasbro to describe two entirely different kinds of Transformers. To avoid confusion and ambiguity it is better to continue using the fan-term "gestalt" when referring to the combined Special Teams super-robots and the term "combiner" according to the definition established in Generation 1.
(/OPINION)

I think that it may be best to just use common sense in the context of when each term is used. If someone refers to Aerialbots type groups as 'combiners' then its obvious that they mean it as them being capable of forming a Gestalt like Superion. If they refer to Dreadwind and Darkwing as combiners, its clear that the context is not form a Gestalt robot but a combined vehicle mode.

Both terms are already somewhat confusing due to the different types of combining characters/toys, using common sense is the best way instead of confusing and varying terminology.

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't see how "gestalt" is ambigious, but whatever, we're starting to derail this thread now so let's just agree to disagree and get back on topic about Universe repaints. :)

[dirge]

Okay, no more discussion of combiner/gestalt please. It's just semantics. If you need to clarify context, that's fine, but that's it.

We all know that Hasbro have been ambiguous down the years, and we can't do much about that. As long as others understand what you're referring to, call them whatever you want. And don't pick others up on it, unless you're asking for clarity (and nothing more than clarity).

It's a pointless argument which will only go in circles.

[STL]

I'd have preferred it if they mixed up the teams for Universe. The thing I disliked most about the Energon teams was that there were only three unique toys per giant robot;
so for instance using the Decepticon helicopter as one of the limbs of a Universe 2.0 Superion set would make it more interesting -- but they are still short another flying vehicle to make up the fifth spot.

:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Pipe-dream: it'd be really neat if they made new gestalt teams that were compatible with the Energon gestalt moulds and thus you could interchange limbs with them (and paying further homage to the G1 Scramble City thing) :D And ideally if they did we would have four unique moulds for the limbs. I agree with Paulbot about the disappointment of only having 3 unique moulds per gestalt set. How cool would it be to have a new set of Protectobots, Stunticons etc. made in the style of the Energon gestalts and with 5 unique moulds per team! :D It'll probably never happen, but we can hope... perchance to dream. ;)

[kup]

Pipe-dream: it'd be really neat if they made new gestalt teams that were compatible with the Energon gestalt moulds and thus you could interchange limbs with them (and paying further homage to the G1 Scramble City thing) :D And ideally if they did we would have four unique moulds for the limbs. I agree with Paulbot about the disappointment of only having 3 unique moulds per gestalt set. How cool would it be to have a new set of Protectobots, Stunticons etc. made in the style of the Energon gestalts and with 5 unique moulds per team! :D It'll probably never happen, but we can hope... perchance to dream. ;)

Hasbro would need to have a change of focus for that to happen. At this moment they find that the simplified gimmickformers are giving them more money. If they see a turnaround with this with more complex transformers selling better, then it may work out.

[Pulse]

Ohhhhh, Now I won't be able to sleep easy for the next 6 months... :D

[MV75]

Pipe-dream: it'd be really neat if they made new gestalt teams that were compatible with the Energon gestalt moulds and thus you could interchange limbs with them (and paying further homage to the G1 Scramble City thing) :D And ideally if they did we would have four unique moulds for the limbs. I agree with Paulbot about the disappointment of only having 3 unique moulds per gestalt set. How cool would it be to have a new set of Protectobots, Stunticons etc. made in the style of the Energon gestalts and with 5 unique moulds per team! :D It'll probably never happen, but we can hope... perchance to dream. ;)

That was the major thing that turned me off the first classics devastator set. Too many same vehicles.

I still don't see how they can keep saying that combiners are too hard, they did it well enough to do the energon ones. :D


Hasbro would need to have a change of focus for that to happen. At this moment they find that the simplified gimmickformers are giving them more money. If they see a turnaround with this with more complex transformers selling better, then it may work out.

But how much bigger a gimmick can you get than a combiner? Plus it will make kids want to collect them all to make the big robot. Worked for me when I got my menasor together back in the day. I got one of them and then wanted the rest REAL BAD. :)

Sure I know you said simplified, but man, this is a better way to get kids focussing and wanting more, well, to collect them all really. :)

I'd give these a second look if they really do make all of the vehicles coloured individually. But I'd really prefer true individualism of course. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

But how much bigger a gimmick can you get than a combiner?
*points @ Landcross, Lio Kaiser & Road Caesar* :D Gimmicks atop gimmicks - but done well! (especially the former 2) :)

[kup]

Yeah I know, it Gestalt combiners worked for me too as a kid but apparently Hasbro now sees them as too complex and not cost effective. Everything these days is all about simplified gimmicks with the exception of the movie line and Activators (their gimmick is simple to activate but their design is not)

[FFN]

I believe what Hasbro actually said was that they were difficult to design and still maintain the level of quality seen on non-combining toys.

I think the problem is combiners often suffer individually so they can combine. With almost all combiner type toys you either get good individuals with a crap combination (Superion Maximus) or a great combined mode with less-than-impressive individuals (Rail Racer/JRX). Or a so-so combination with so-so individuals (Landfill/Build King).



And G1 combiners were awful. All of them were. Most of the individual components were worse than buying other, non-combining toys.

[Pulse]

And G1 combiners were awful. All of them were. Most of the individual components were worse than buying other, non-combining toys.

I don't think so.

Sure alot of the Scramble City limbs weren't great as stand alone figures, But other individual figures (eg. the Constructicons) weren't too bad at all. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

I dunno... I found some of them were okay. A lot of the Scramble City-gimmicked gestalts' limbformers were poor, mostly because many of them suffered from that "blockhead" syndrome. The Aerialbots were particularly poor because the limbformers are all basically the same design and same transformation - offered little variety between those toys. The other teams were pretty decent and offered better variety. Having said that, the vehicle modes were decent and the interchangeable limb gimmick was cool as. How many of us formed "bastard gestalts" as children because we only had a few limbs from different teams but not enough to form a full proper gestalt robot? That was awesome because it meant that you could form a gestalt without having that entire particular set!

1988:http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/G1%20toyplay/g1_1988.jpg
Behold Defensutron - an Autobot gestalt made from a combination of Protectobots and Technobots! :)

I thought the Constructicons were really good as individual Transformers, but Devastator's a fairly ordinary gestalt. The Monster Pretenders were pretty crummy - just puny and the GPS has become the bane of our existence. :(

The Multi Forcers are pretty good Transformers considering their gimmick (IMO their gimmick works better than Energon's Power Linking in context of their respective vintages and the fact that the Energon Power Linking Autobots don't even form a gestalt) and a decent gestalt mode by G1 standards IMO. Breast Force/Lio Kaiser are just freakin' awesome - good robot modes and an exceptionally excellent gestalt mode by G1 standards. I haven't seen Road Caesar myself, but I think the Motivators are okay toys given their Brainmaster gimmick (which I don't think is much better or worse than other similar gimmicks during G1). The Micromaster gestalts have really good individual robots but the gestalt robots are pretty crappy because their merge transformation is basically a big cheat (even more so than Devastator!). :/

I quite like the Beast Wars gestalts - especially Tripredacus. Good individual robots with good beast modes and a well articulated and solid gestalt mode. He's full of awesomesauce. (^_^)

[dirge]

I think the problem is combiners often suffer individually so they can combine. With almost all combiner type toys you either get good individuals with a crap combination (Superion Maximus) or a great combined mode with less-than-impressive individuals (Rail Racer/JRX). Or a so-so combination with so-so individuals (Landfill/Build King).


I'm sorry I have to strongly disagree here. I love J-Five & J-Seven, and J-Four is also strong. I love all four members of the Build Team, and while the combination isn't the best, it's very versatile. All of them are poseable toys with quite realistic alternate modes and clever transformations. I grant you that Superlink Superion isn't a strong combination, but the other teams are very well done.

As for wanting strong designs... I find that one hard to swallow, after recent efforts like Energon Ironhide and his ridiculously visible head, the guns on movie Starscream which ruin the jet mode visually and rob the robot mode of hands and the Protoform Starscream which couldn't get a proper robot shape out of a _rock_.

Has/Tak have released some really bad moulds in recent years, so I can't believe that they're avoiding combiners because the toys aren't up to scratch. Heck, Hasbro _repainted_ Ironhide and subjected us to that bad idea all over again. I think the real reason is more like someone (I suspect it's the Tomy arm of TakaraTomy, actually) doesn't want to invest in the R&D getting the engineering to work.

[SilverDragon]

Apparently there's going to be a combiner team in Animated, consisting of Jetstorm and Jetfire. I'm unsure if they combine in robot mode or in whatever their alt modes are. If they really ARE combiners, it doesn't give Hasbro/TakaraTomy an excuse not to remake G1 combiners due to complicated designs.

[GoktimusPrime]

So you're saying that Jetstorm and Jetfire will be able to combine, but not sure if they're a Combiner (i.e. 2 robots into one alt mode) or a Gestalt (i.e.: 2 robots into one combined robot mode)?

[STL]

I'm sorry I have to strongly disagree here. I love J-Five & J-Seven, and J-Four is also strong. I love all four members of the Build Team, and while the combination isn't the best, it's very versatile. All of them are poseable toys with quite realistic alternate modes and clever transformations. I grant you that Superlink Superion isn't a strong combination, but the other teams are very well done.


I actually agree with FFN. I think that they are harder to design and get right b/c inevitably something has to suffer in order for them to link nicely. It's an awful lot of effort. JRX in my opinion is a horrible toy individually but the combined form is pretty high up there. You can tell that basically the bottom and top have been sacrificed at the expense of their individual transformations. The Build team too have very strange proportions on them. I think Superlink Bruticus was very nice but they pretty much cheated with the Superlink/Energon toys as really they only had to have three unique molds per combiner.



I think the real reason is more like someone (I suspect it's the Tomy arm of TakaraTomy, actually) doesn't want to invest in the R&D getting the engineering to work.

I do agree with this. I think it's very possible to make a good combiner but I think it's just too cost prohibitive which makes them too lazy to do it.

[FFN]

I like Rail Racer's combined mode, but I don't like how 'stiff' the individual guys are. They're fairly well articulated, but their design seems to be most confortable standing at attention. They don't seem to be very *fun* to me, is all.


As for wanting strong designs... I find that one hard to swallow, after recent efforts like Energon Ironhide and his ridiculously visible head, the guns on movie Starscream which ruin the jet mode visually and rob the robot mode of hands and the Protoform Starscream which couldn't get a proper robot shape out of a _rock_.

Has/Tak have released some really bad moulds in recent years, so I can't believe that they're avoiding combiners because the toys aren't up to scratch. Heck, Hasbro _repainted_ Ironhide and subjected us to that bad idea all over again. I think the real reason is more like someone (I suspect it's the Tomy arm of TakaraTomy, actually) doesn't want to invest in the R&D getting the engineering to work. *shrugs* The point was that its harder to come up with a toy that is good by itself and can transform to become part of another robot than it is to simply design a stand-alone toy.

I think Tomy only has to worry about investing capital when they do a Transformers line or product independant of Hasbro, such as Music Label, Sports Label and Alternity. Otherwise if Hasbro's involved from the beginning, Hasbro would pay for it or at least offset the cost of development.

[dirge]

I'm not so much talking about investing capital as investing the time/effort/focus. TakaraTomy seems much happier to let Hasbro dictate the direction that Takara proper did, and doesn't seem to put a lot of effort into new ideas.

[MV75]

Apparently there's going to be a combiner team in Animated, consisting of Jetstorm and Jetfire. I'm unsure if they combine in robot mode or in whatever their alt modes are. If they really ARE combiners, it doesn't give Hasbro/TakaraTomy an excuse not to remake G1 combiners due to complicated designs.

I highly suspect it will be something like dreadwind/darkwing. Two jets make a big jet. For some reason I can't recall right now, I think that's what it will be.

[GoktimusPrime]

*suspects a Dreadwing/Darkwing repaint in the future if that's the case*
It'd be neat as an OTFCC repaint/retool (cos they would have different heads)

[Paulbot]

*suspects a Dreadwing/Darkwing repaint in the future if that's the case*
It'd be neat as an OTFCC repaint/retool (cos they would have different heads)

I'd like one too. (Probably cheaper than getting the original pair.)

[SilverDragon]

I think it might be that the two jets combine into a super-jet. If the designers contemplated them combining in robot mode, they looked at Mega-Dinobot and said NO.

[GoktimusPrime]

re: Mega Dinobot
*cold.shudder*http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/3/37/Hotshotraizeyes.jpg/180px-Hotshotraizeyes.jpgWhY mY ShOuLdErS hUrT?

[Soundwarp]

re: Mega Dinobot

*Puke*

I thought we agreed never ever to talk about that.

[GoktimusPrime]

I still bought that toy but. :p