How to tel if MP is KO?

[Sam]

I saw some MPs (Lambor, Bumblebee, Streak, Prowl) going for cheap at a shop in In's Point, Yau Ma Tei (Hong Kong).

Prices were 240hkd (approx. 40aud) each.

It was by far cheaper than any other price seen so far for me. Seems too good to be true and the shop keeper said she is selling them on behalf of someone renting part of the shop space.

So question is what are the signs to tell if they are KOs (assuming I can open to check before buying)?

The boxes were still sealed and shrink wrapped. I can see the TakaraTomy label but that means nothing.

Any pointers much appreciated. Thanks!

[GoktimusPrime]

There's a section for identifying counterfeits here (http://otca.com.au/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=36). :)

MP Prowl (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=18236)
MP Streak (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=18915)
MP Lambor (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=16397); a lot of the image links there seem to be broken, so here are some other links:
http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/79
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/buyer-beware-ko-masterpiece-12-lambor-sideswipe/27775/
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.625043037514415.1073742089.168147899870600&type=1
http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=363106&postcount=7
This site (https://blacktrion.wordpress.com/) shows how to tell the difference from the box.
Tigertrack (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=16419)

Red Alert:
http://bensrantblog.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/knock-off-transformers-masterpiece-toys.html

[leej84]

Just judging by the prices alone, u were most likely looking at KO's as most KO MPs are priced around the $40 aud mark on eBay.
On youtube, rocketpuncharmy has a few comparisons of KO MPs vs real with box comparisons too. Fake KOs normally have a more dull looking box and some box art might be wrong, but as time has progressed the KO companies have improved their box too...
I'm heading to hong kong in 2 weeks it'll be interesting to check out wat they have there.


I saw some MPs (Lambor, Bumblebee, Streak, Prowl) going for cheap at a shop in In's Point, Yau Ma Tei (Hong Kong).

Prices were 240hkd (approx. 40aud) each.

It was by far cheaper than any other price seen so far for me. Seems too good to be true and the shop keeper said she is selling them on behalf of someone renting part of the shop space.

So question is what are the signs to tell if they are KOs (assuming I can open to check before buying)?

The boxes were still sealed and shrink wrapped. I can see the TakaraTomy label but that means nothing.

Any pointers much appreciated. Thanks!

[drifand]

Fake KO like sideswipe had a glossy box finished which the original was matt.
They corrected this in their Nissan KO line.

To be real honest, I wouldn't buy any of the car MP TF in hong kong. Is just not worth wondering during my vacation.

I be aiming for
1, Soundwave
2 Rodimus in Takara box
3 Optimus Takara/hasbro <the fake Takara is without trailer
4. SkyWarp if you are keen
5. Any of the MP11 seekers
6. Bumblebee as I know KO hasnt been made
7.Ultramagnus
8.Wheeljack

The ones I avoid in Hong Kong
Grimlock
The cassetts
All the old car line that have KO

Have a good trip, dont have one that you be worrying about.

[GoktimusPrime]

There's an Australian based e-store which has MP Lambor and G2 Lambor in stock. They're a bit pricey, but at least you know you're not getting fakes. I've seen their stock IRL at SupaNova and it looked legit (I think some members here purchased from them at the con - I bought my Alternators Mirage and Generations Whirl from them).
http://www.toynkdownunder.com.au/http://www.toynkdownunder.com.au/buy/transformers-masterpiece-mp-12-sideswipe/TAK-45997-C
http://www.toynkdownunder.com.au/http://www.toynkdownunder.com.au/buy/transformers-masterpiece-lamborghini-mp-12g-g2-ver/TAK-49828-C

[drifand]

I wonder will they ko Wheeljack and bumblebee. I would have thought they will as they are small figures compared to Magnus.

[CBratron]

I wonder will they ko Wheeljack and bumblebee. I would have thought they will as they are small figures compared to Magnus.

They will. They already did Lambor and the Datsuns.

[kup]

I saw a MP Red Alert knock off some time ago. It was a pretty faithful reproduction including plastic quality and paint job. If I had not been directly comparing it with a real one, I would have never noted the differences and thought it to be legit.

[Bladestorm]

As someone who lives in HK I would say you were looking at Knockoffs.

None of the real MP's you mentioned have been retailing for prices that low...
MP-21 is always $350+, Streak and Prowl are low $400's..., Lambor varies from mid $300's up...

Did they have the ST markings and holograms on them?

I only deal in real but might head over to take a nosey next week as I'm curious to see so I can be wary...

Always nice to be able to compare the real to the fake. I have a real and fake MP-10 that causes (non-collecting) peoples minds to blow when I put them side by side. 80% think the fake is the real deal. ;)

[drifand]

As someone who lives in HK I would say you were looking at Knockoffs.

None of the real MP's you mentioned have been retailing for prices that low...
MP-21 is always $350+, Streak and Prowl are low $400's..., Lambor varies from mid $300's up...

Did they have the ST markings and holograms on them?

I only deal in real but might head over to take a nosey next week as I'm curious to see so I can be wary...

Always nice to be able to compare the real to the fake. I have a real and fake MP-10 that causes (non-collecting) peoples minds to blow when I put them side by side. 80% think the fake is the real deal. ;)

The mp-10 coulld be identified by the paint apps and the waist yellow center screw. The hands was sadly the KOs downfall, they should have used the KFC hands.

I was quite impressed with the mp-10 KO version 2 until the hands were still let down. Mind you there are a lot of people who dont even know these are KO. It also shows the Takara version was by far from being perfect.

[Bladestorm]

I was quite impressed with KO MP-10 too from an aesthetics and detailing point of view until I tried to transform him. I've never gone all the way because his legs are so stiff I worry about them breaking or remaining stuck.

I knew up front he was a fake but I liked his detailing so much I couldn't resist getting him (and I only paid RMB400) for the novelty value. Side by side with my real MP-10's he always makes for quite a conversation piece. He's the only fake I've ever had the desire to acquire... I'm a sucker for G1 Optimus...
The centre screw is one of the things that always suckers non-TF knowing people into thinking the real MP-10 is fake... so funny that such a little detail can be so telling.


The mp-10 coulld be identified by the paint apps and the waist yellow center screw. The hands was sadly the KOs downfall, they should have used the KFC hands.

I was quite impressed with the mp-10 KO version 2 until the hands were still let down. Mind you there are a lot of people who dont even know these are KO. It also shows the Takara version was by far from being perfect.

[GoktimusPrime]

I've seen & handled a counterfeit MP Alert IRL; out of box the inferior quality is more noticeable with certain parts not fitting in properly (e.g. top of head etc.). MP Alert has been the only MP that I've purchased off the secondary market and I ended up paying about $100 for it -- somewhat pricey (about double what preordering would've cost, but the same as AU RRP for an MP Car) but I was willing to pay it knowing that it was the real deal rather than risk getting a fake.

[CoRDS]

I bought a ko on purpose the gold ko mp12. Because the gold version doesn't exist in legit form.

There are definitely things you can check to see if legit

The headlights don't have the black border. The head won't close. The paint is better (wtf) and Lamborghini is spelt wrong.


I would never get one again as I wnt to support the legit creators etc.

[drifand]

I bought a ko on purpose the gold ko mp12. Because the gold version doesn't exist in legit form.

There are definitely things you can check to see if legit

The headlights don't have the black border. The head won't close. The paint is better (wtf) and Lamborghini is spelt wrong.


I would never get one again as I wnt to support the legit creators etc.

Well it depends, some people buy them to do custom jobs, and by all means is a cheaper way to go. The Diaclone bluestreak has not been released and some people will buy the Tokyo exclusive KO to do this.

For me, I wasn't impressed at all by MP-10 overall for the original. I prefer to alter his hands to have the KFC version, and have to say it looked so much better with the movable fingers.

To be real honest, some people have not get it that you have to purchase the originals at pre-order stage, not when they are date released as they will be 10% marked up easily. If you pre-order all your mps, you don't even need to look at KO because you be paying like $10 more for the original toy.

[kup]

Always nice to be able to compare the real to the fake. I have a real and fake MP-10 that causes (non-collecting) peoples minds to blow when I put them side by side. 80% think the fake is the real deal. ;)

Given the quality of official toys these days, that doesn't surprise. Although 5 years ago, it would have shocked me.

[Bidoofdude]

I went to HK in September 2013 and all of the MP-14 Red Alerts I saw were well over $100.

[millhouse]

I'd be happy if MP Bumble got KO'd, because I'd like a couple of Exosuits to go with the upcoming Dr Wu upgrade heads.

That said, anyone want to sell an Exosuit or two? :P

[Sam]

Thanks for the links, most helpful!


There's a section for identifying counterfeits here (http://otca.com.au/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=36). :)

MP Prowl (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=18236)
MP Streak (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=18915)
MP Lambor (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=16397); a lot of the image links there seem to be broken, so here are some other links:
http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/79
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/buyer-beware-ko-masterpiece-12-lambor-sideswipe/27775/
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.625043037514415.1073742089.168147899870600&type=1
http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=363106&postcount=7
This site (https://blacktrion.wordpress.com/) shows how to tell the difference from the box.
Tigertrack (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=16419)

Red Alert:
http://bensrantblog.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/knock-off-transformers-masterpiece-toys.html

[Sam]

Have a good trip, dont have one that you be worrying about.

That is good advice, I'll take it. :)

[Sam]

Did they have the ST markings and holograms on them?


They were locked in a small clear case so I couldn't see enough to tell. Given their prices and that the shop keeper says she was selling them for someone else, claiming to have no knowledge of where they were from (I asked a simple question about whether they were Japanese versions), I became suspicious and now it looks like you've all confirmed this for me.

[Bladestorm]

If she wasn't willing to take the boxes out for you to inspect then they were almost definitely fake. HK people like to handle the goods up front so they can check them. Any shop that won't let you examine a product you want to buy will always ring alarm bells with me - be it 100% fake, an empty real box, or you ask for the real item and they switch it out for a fake as you buy it.
Definitely better to be safe than sorry in that case.


They were locked in a small clear case so I couldn't see enough to tell. Given their prices and that the shop keeper says she was selling them for someone else, claiming to have no knowledge of where they were from (I asked a simple question about whether they were Japanese versions), I became suspicious and now it looks like you've all confirmed this for me.

[drifand]

If you are patient all mp of normal release will be reissued on Japanese online stores. Mp-10 has made its way. The rumour and btw red alert and sideswipe will follow in line. Again no point wondering if you not confident in anything .

It is correct, if you are definitely buying they should open up for you when requested, mind you, if it's original and you decided to change your mind, they may kick a fuss.

[GoktimusPrime]

It is correct, if you are definitely buying they should open up for you when requested, mind you, if it's original and you decided to change your mind, they may kick a fuss.
There's no excuse for them to make a fuss. They choose to keep these toys behind locked glass, which is fine, but they need to be willing to unlock and relock these toys when customers want to inspect them. Duh. One way to minimise the fuss is to attach labels that give as much information about the toy as possible. That's something I really like about Mandarake; everything's locked up, but staff are happy to open and close cases for you to look at toys. Also, each toy has labels that tell you about its condition; if the toy is fake, if it's not sealed, if anything is flawed or missing etc. That really cuts down the "asking time" between customers and staff.

[xlojnr]

I took Drifand to mean open the box to inspect the toy inside (which would mean that the toy is no longer in a sealed box.. thus the fuss if you then pull out of the sale of a legitimate item) - not just open/close the display cabinet that is housing the boxed toy.

[drifand]

I took Drifand to mean open the box to inspect the toy inside (which would mean that the toy is no longer in a sealed box.. thus the fuss if you then pull out of the sale of a legitimate item) - not just open/close the display cabinet that is housing the boxed toy.

That was what I mean , sorry for any confusion.
My brother was in Hong Kong and was buying stuff for me. Luckily they were not misb items hence the opening to check, and found one of the small item broken and decided to leave that and bought something else.
It was observed that the owner wasn't too happy but glad my bro bought something.

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's what I would do if I were buying an MP from the secondary market:
1/ Try my best to inspect the box for any tell tale signs that it may be fake.
2/ Check the seller's description or directly ask the seller about the toy's authenticity.
3/ If the toy turns out to be fake, I would demand a refund. If the seller refuses to comply, report the seller to appropriate authorities.

While it may not be illegal to purchase fakes (as the law views consumers as victims of fraud), it is illegal to sell them (as the sellers are committing acts of fraud). I would absolutely be willing to assert my consumer rights. When I purchased MP Alert off the secondary market, I went through steps 1 and 2. The toy was legit, so I didn't need to proceed to Step 3 (but I would have if it weren't). :o

[Bladestorm]

If you're looking at MISB, the important thing is to make sure the box is sealed with the original factory taping and that it has the appropriate emboss marks/holograms, ST markings, etc.
Most HK stores are legit. Unfortunately it is the few who dabble in both the fake and real market or those who try to pass KO's as real that bring the whole industry down.

I agree with Goktimus on the steps to take. If an item is advertised as real I expect it to BE real. I'd report someone selling a fake who didn't refund me as well.
As someone who sells real TF items on eBay I have no qualms answering requests or supplying additional photos where possible to help verify authenticity and I try to always take photos of the authentic markings so people know exactly what they will get. I think anyone who is conducting a normal legitimate business would be the same. You make sales by providing more information; so those who conceal or "can't answer" should always be treated with more scrutiny imho.

[GoktimusPrime]

Even if the item isn't specified to be real or fake, it is reasonable for consumers to assume that a product is legitimate. And AFAIK, informing consumers that a product is fake is no legal protection either (as the seller never had the right to sell the product in the first place). It is merely a courtesy which would probably also significantly reduce the chances of a consumer taking action against the seller.

[vorox4251]

has anyone identified any mp road rage KO

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

has anyone identified any mp road rage KO

They just KO'd Tracks -- more info here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=22789), so Road Rage should probably appear next/soon.

[drifand]

He probably asked that because the original felt cheap? So now is a question which feels cheaper?

Saying that Ko have been proud to use their own name brand and only starscream is using a full imitation atm.

[vorox4251]

They just KO'd Tracks -- more info here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=22789), so Road Rage should probably appear next/soon.

good because that means that hopefully the 35AUD plus shipping i bought will be legit

[Bladestorm]

good because that means that hopefully the 35AUD plus shipping i bought will be legit

The real MP Road Rage (and Tracks) are pretty cheap to buy anyways.
Some stores in Hong Kong have had them as low as AU$33 on the shelf, so you never know. :)

[vorox4251]

ill let know when mine arrives if it is ko due to the cheap pricing i found

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

good because that means that hopefully the 35AUD plus shipping i bought will be legit

Where did you get it from?