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Soundwarp
14th September 2008, 07:59 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/soundwarp/shocked.png

Yes it's true i am finally going to go through with my promise to many many people around the world to actually sit down and watch the series that i frequently say diddn't exist because i diddn't like it at all.

So watch this space as i have Griff's copy of the first season and i do plan to actually sit down and get through at least season 1.

GoktimusPrime
14th September 2008, 08:18 AM
...not sure how you can not like something at all when you've never seen it. But it's good that you're willing to give it a burl now (12 years after it debuted :p) and I look forward to seeing your conversion into a Beast Wars fan (if you're not a BW fan after watching the entire show I will eat my hat!!).

But my real question is whether this show will make you want to collect the toys! :D

SilverDragon
14th September 2008, 09:08 AM
But my real question is whether this show will make you want to collect the toys! :D

The show made me want to collect the toys. That's essentially my only complaint about the series (besides Terrorsaur's random death)-the toys aren't available in non-online shops!

kup
14th September 2008, 11:17 AM
The show made me want to collect the toys. That's essentially my only complaint about the series (besides *************)-the toys aren't available in non-online shops!

no spoilers for Soundwarp!

The first season is good, very good but the next season is the greatest!

dirge
14th September 2008, 12:13 PM
Hope you enjoy, dude!

Soundwarp
14th September 2008, 12:18 PM
Stupid Griffin, his copy is American so i can't watch it on my PC.......

Off to the bedroom to watch it now........

kup
14th September 2008, 12:34 PM
Stupid Griffin, his copy is American so i can't watch it on my PC.......

Off to the bedroom to watch it now........

My copy is American too but I can watch it.

You can either flash your drive (a bit techy)

or you can download AnyDVD for a region free 21 day trial:

http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvd.html

griffin
14th September 2008, 12:45 PM
Stupid Griffin........

Hmmm, must add to forum rules, big brutish Army board-members can't call the admin stupid, just because they could snap me in half like a twig. :p

autobreadticon
14th September 2008, 02:36 PM
watch it a open mind, enjoy the story and characters, rather than thinking about a rat (animal)toy transformer

jacksplatt11
14th September 2008, 02:46 PM
its a great show, my 2nd favourite after G1.. good story lines, good characterization, and the cgi is still great by todays standards.. you should enjoy it

Soundwarp
14th September 2008, 04:07 PM
OK 6 episodes down............

I am going to continue my journey.

Points so far:

If i close my eyes i really like it, i am still having trouble with the talking animals.

Some of the stories seem shallow.

But a massive plus.....

I AM STILL WATCHING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

roller
14th September 2008, 04:16 PM
Good luck, i cant stand most of season 1

Pulse
14th September 2008, 04:36 PM
But my real question is whether this show will make you want to collect the toys! :D


The show made me want to collect the toys.

I've never watched a single episode of BW :o but I still luv the figures... :)

Come to think of it, the only series I've made an effort to watch has been all of G1 :) as well as Animated (that's cos it was the current series that everyone was talking about... :D)

GoktimusPrime
14th September 2008, 04:50 PM
If i close my eyes i really like it, i am still having trouble with the talking animals.
Is it any more ridiculous than talking cars and planes? ;) Just remember that these are robots in disguise. :)


Some of the stories seem shallow.
Really? How so? That's an odd complaint - if anything I think Beast Wars is not shallow. IMO it's one of the deepest and most complex stories ever written for a Transformers television series (and is only rivaled by TF comics).

The G1 cartoon characters were, for the most part, basically archetypal caricatures rather than true characters. Look at cartoon Optimus Prime compared to Optimus Primal. Prime was basically the "Christ-like" infallable saviour archetype. But as Stan Lee always says, it is the flaws or weaknesses of a character that drives them and makes them interesting. Even Superman has his weaknesses (most of them being emotional since he has so very few physical weaknesses). Optimus Primal is the same - he's not the flawless jewel of a leader like cartoon Optimus Prime.

A man in your position would know better than the rest of us here the different impact that war places on civilians and soldiers. The Autobots were soldiers in an army, having battled the Decepticons for millions of years. The Maximals are civilians and Optimus Primal is the captain of an expeditionary mission (and he's not an ex-soldier like Animated Optimus Prime either). Furthermore they've just been through a period of over three centuries of peace on Cybertron - these Maximals have never seen combat before.

Then there's the Predacons - again, not really an army either, but rather a gathering of disenfranchised malcontents as part of a renegade separatist movement within the Predacons (officially the Predacons are at peace with the Maximals).

I think it's quite interesting to watch how these characters develop - even though they may have started off being non-combatants the war will reshape them. Kinda like how the four Hobbits in The Lord of the Rings were forever changed by the end of that story. Look at Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin at the start of The Fellowship of the Ring and compare them to how they are at the end of Return of the King (especially in the books).

http://www.gameweb.gr/lordoftherings/photos/images/frodo.jpghttp://www.filmposters.it/imgposter/grandi/frodo.jpg

A good adventure is always about characters' journeys and how they change along the course of that journey. In the G1 cartoon Optimus Prime is basically the same character in the end of "The Rebirth" as he was in the beginning of "More Than Meets The Eye." Have a look at Optimus Primal and all the other Beast Wars Transformers now at the beginning of Beast Wars and remember them well... then recall this feeling when you're watching the end of Season 3. :)

There's more to the Beast Wars than meets the eye! :)

roller
14th September 2008, 05:38 PM
these Maximals have never seen combat before.

T:)

thats what i thought, but the comics make it sound like the Maximals and Preds did have a big war.

Soundwarp
14th September 2008, 05:39 PM
I'm sure there is, i am still watching..........

What i've posted is just the initial feelings, better than the last time when i just turned it off :p

kup
14th September 2008, 05:47 PM
Let him watch it, don't overwhelm him with info and bits and pieces.

He is getting over the culture shock of Animal Transformers which is something that a lot of people had issues with at first. Some just take longer to get over it or realize that if you analyze it properly, Beast Wars is not really introducing anything radically new that wasn't already present in G1 such as Beast Modes and realistic 'organic' disguises.

Very little that wasn't already present for year in G1 is introduced in Beast Wars, all that Beast Wars does is expand them.

Soundwarp, they are not animals, they are robots no different to G1 Predacons, Dinobots, etc. You must have already seen the episode in which Cheetor tells Tarantulas that his 'flesh' isn't real but synthetic. You burn the 'flesh' right of one and you get a robotic animal.

People often complain about the following 'BW elements' but don't realize that they are already part of G1:

- Beast modes? Present in G1
- Robots using organic substances as fuel? Present in G1
- Organic looking Beast modes? Again Present in G1.
- Mixture of organic and robotic Beast modes? Yet again present in G1.

GoktimusPrime
14th September 2008, 06:16 PM
thats what i thought, but the comics make it sound like the Maximals and Preds did have a big war.
Not officially. Technically the Maximals and Predacons have always lived in peace, but there have been pockets of rogue elements from within the Predacons who've attempted to fight against the Maximal government on Cybertron.

1orion2many
14th September 2008, 06:35 PM
I'm sure there is, i am still watching..........

What i've posted is just the initial feelings, better than the last time when i just turned it off :p

:eek:What! You turned off Beast Wars:eek:. Oh the horror, this series and G1 are equal favourites with Dinobot being pretty much my favourite character and I think he'll grow on you too.

Soundwarp
14th September 2008, 06:43 PM
:eek:What! You turned off Beast Wars:eek:. Oh the horror, this series and G1 are equal favourites with Dinobot being pretty much my favourite character and I think he'll grow on you too.

Lol he reaks of being Starscream to me at the moment...........

I won't tell you what i really used to feel and say about BW otherwise you may need to be given CPR.

1orion2many
14th September 2008, 06:59 PM
:)Completely different persona as you will hopefully find out by watching through all of season two as well;).

GoktimusPrime
14th September 2008, 07:12 PM
*nods* If I had to compare Dinobot with a G1 Transformer it would have to be Bludgeon (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Bludgeon). :) As you've seen Dinobot is stooped in that whole Samurai-Bushido honour thing.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/0/09/Bludgeonasavageplace.jpg/250px-Bludgeonasavageplace.jpg (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Bludgeon)

...as for that other Transformer you mentioned... just keep watching. :) (sit down and do a Season 1 back to back marathon!! :D)

Paulbot
14th September 2008, 08:20 PM
Soundwarp, despite the rather large "spoiler" text in an earlier post, there's no plot spoilers in it so if you do give into temptation and read it you're really not going to spoil anything from the series, only stuff from the Japanese spin-off series and some stuff inferred but not actually in the cartoon.

Everyone else, as when STL watched Beast Wars, remember to avoid posting spoilers about events, characters or general discussion of the series as a whole in this thread.

MV75
14th September 2008, 08:28 PM
I suggest everyone stop having a big wank until Soundwarp finishes watching it all.....

...... because I'm probably next.

griffin
14th September 2008, 09:05 PM
I think it's funny that some of our bigger transfans here are only just discovering a whole universe of the fandom, that's over 10 years old. While we have newbies that have been around for a lot less, who know more about what's probably the second biggest series in TFs. :D

1orion2many
14th September 2008, 09:17 PM
:(Yes but that is only because the peanuts neutered the series early otherwise it may have surpassed G1 as well:(. Yell and scream everyone:D.

liegeprime
14th September 2008, 09:59 PM
Watch it and you'll like it Soundwarp. Im a G1 affcionado. ONly got interested in the BW toys yeeeaaars after it was released (read: available only in ebay) and never collected it til just last year. BUt storywise, plot , continuity and characterization, HAts off to BW. I only still have a few of the toys as it doesnt really interest me as much as G1 ( lame as these bricks may be - but I luv em) but BW story is better than G1 IMO.

STL
14th September 2008, 10:01 PM
Let him watch it, don't overwhelm him with info and bits and pieces.


Agreed absolutely, Kup.

It took myself a long time to get my head around it and adjust and I think its unfair to bombard poor lil ol' Soundwarp with information until he makes up his mind too.

(U did love Rhinox's chain gun though, right, Soundwarp? Yeah?) :)

Gutsman Heavy
14th September 2008, 11:15 PM
My lil' bro turned me onto BW, the best thing he's ever done.

Tiby
15th September 2008, 05:21 PM
You'll love it Soundwarp!

Tetsuwan Convoy
18th September 2008, 01:01 AM
(U did love Rhinox's chain gun though, right, Soundwarp? Yeah?) :)

That was the ONLY reason I got Rhinox's toy.


And it didn't have a chain gun.....:(

Soundwarp
18th September 2008, 05:00 AM
(U did love Rhinox's chain gun though, right, Soundwarp? Yeah?) :)

Absolutley i did.

I finished season 1 yesterday, i have written some things down and the verdict will come soon.

STL
18th September 2008, 09:18 AM
That was the ONLY reason I got Rhinox's toy.


And it didn't have a chain gun.....:(

That's why we need to slam on Hasbro's door and demand a proper Rhinox! We don't need no try hard cheetah, we need the big ol' lummock! My nation for a Rhinox with a chain gun!

kup
18th September 2008, 09:23 AM
Absolutley i did.

I finished season 1 yesterday, i have written some things down and the verdict will come soon.

Be ready for Season 2, it will blow your mind and afterwards you will not be able to see G1 and Beast Wars as separate things but parts of a great glorious whole.

Saintly
18th September 2008, 10:36 AM
damn it... I haven't watch Beast Wars (from start to finish) and now I'm tempted (and curious) to see for myself why Warpy has finished season 1.

mind you, I do like some of the toys.

GoktimusPrime
18th September 2008, 11:50 AM
That's why we need to slam on Hasbro's door and demand a proper Rhinox! We don't need no try hard cheetah, we need the big ol' lummock! My nation for a Rhinox with a chain gun!
But the chain gun things came from the cartoon and as we all know, the toy came out before the cartoon! I suppose if HasTak ever decide to do Classics/Universe/Henkei for Beast Wars that we could start seeing more showlike characters with things like a proper chain gun for Rhinox... *shrugs* lessee... Ironhide and Ratchet came out in 1984 and we'll be getting show/comic-like versions in 2008/9... so considering that Rhinox came out in 1996 then I suppose we can expect a Classics Rhinox say around 2020/1? ;)


Be ready for Season 2, it will blow your mind
*nods* Season 2 is the best - much better than Season 1. :)

griffin
18th September 2008, 12:07 PM
Just see if you can borrow someone's set Saintly. It's a must see for transfans, to get a better perspective of Hasbro's history of TFs.
Now, should I make Soundwarp wait a year on the cliffhanger like those of us did back in 1997? :D

liegeprime
18th September 2008, 12:15 PM
Now, should I make Soundwarp wait a year on the cliffhanger like those of us did back in 1997? :D

Well lets see, hes more than 6 feet tall, built and strong as an ox, licensed to kill, can break people in half like a twig...... meeeeh hope your insured:D:p


Edit: oh one last important factor to consider, he knows where you live :eek::eek::eek:

Paulbot
18th September 2008, 12:44 PM
Rhinox's chain gun is based on his toy weapon, they just shortened the spikes and turned it on a different angle. :rolleyes:

It was a great cliffhanger, but don't keep him waiting that long. Did we wait a year? I remember buying the Video pack Airazor so I could see the conclusion before series two made it to TV. :)

GoktimusPrime
18th September 2008, 04:23 PM
I got copies of all BW and BM episodes taped from the US so I could watch them ASAP! :D But even then, yeah, it was a year between each season. Of course I would still watch and tape them when they came out on TV here so I could watch them in full PAL colours instead of crappy faded NTSC. :p Funnily enough I'm more than happy to watch Animated on YouTube and seeing them again on TV doesn't excite me as much... maybe because I'm not enjoying Animated as much so I don't really care?

Gawd those end-of-season cliffhangers were so annoying (yet so cool)! Especially the end of Season 2! Baw!!

loophole
18th September 2008, 07:11 PM
It was a great cliffhanger, but don't keep him waiting that long. Did we wait a year? I remember buying the Video pack Airazor so I could see the conclusion before series two made it to TV. :)

i did the exact same thing because i couldnt wait to see how it all went, i didnt even want airazor but she was better than the crab thing

Soundwarp
21st September 2008, 12:44 PM
Just see if you can borrow someone's set Saintly. It's a must see for transfans, to get a better perspective of Hasbro's history of TFs.
Now, should I make Soundwarp wait a year on the cliffhanger like those of us did back in 1997? :D

Ha, i watched it on Youtube :p

MV75
21st September 2008, 02:28 PM
Absolutley i did.

I finished season 1 yesterday, i have written some things down and the verdict will come soon.


And.....? Do I get to watch the shows next? :D

GoktimusPrime
21st September 2008, 04:44 PM
We didn't have YouTube in 1997! :p I still have the Siren Entertainment poster (and giant foam store display) advertising the release of Beast Wars on VHS! :D

kup
21st September 2008, 05:21 PM
So what are your thoughts on it so far?

SilverDragon
21st September 2008, 06:08 PM
What do you think of Megatron? I, for one, think he's great. Not only since he actually has plans that last for more than one episode, but also because he's hilarious. YEEEEESSSS...

Beast_Wars_Superior
21st September 2008, 08:02 PM
Beast Wars Megatron is brilliant, and his evolution as a character throughout the series is impressive and at times unexpected.

Soundwarp
24th September 2008, 08:27 AM
OK the moment many people the world over have been waiting for:

OK I give Beast Wars (Season 1)

6.5/10

The reason it rated so high was that it is still Transformers, now that will come as an insult to many of you but the people that know me will not be insulted at all. They will realise that I used to refuse to admit that BW was even made; I hated it so much that I blocked it out of my mind, that said the 6.5 should look a lot rosier to you all.

I do believe that I wasn't drawn to it as much as other series as there was the lack of human interaction; I feel that this left me not feeling close to the show or believing it as much. I know it's damm hard to believe 20ft robots that transform in the first place but I felt more withdrawn from the series for that reason.

IMO they could have done the show and had a more appealing intro, I saw my first episode and only through perseverance I made it through the intro.

Another downfall IMO it lacked characters, by that I mean in number.

Keep in mind that I am going to sit down and watch season 2 so please leave out spoilers for me.

No flaming

This is my opinion and it has come a long long way. Bear in mind that I wouldn't even rate BW a 0/10 as I used to hate it so much that I would not rate something that I pretended did not happen.

kup
24th September 2008, 08:39 AM
OK the moment many people the world over have been waiting for:

OK I give Beast Wars (Season 1)

6.5/10

The reason it rated so high was that it is still Transformers, now that will come as an insult to many of you but the people that know me will not be insulted at all. They will realise that I used to refuse to admit that BW was even made; I hated it so much that I blocked it out of my mind, that said the 6.5 should look a lot rosier to you all.

I do believe that I wasn't drawn to it as much as other series as there was the lack of human interaction; I feel that this left me not feeling close to the show or believing it as much. I know it's damm hard to believe 20ft robots that transform in the first place but I felt more withdrawn from the series for that reason.

IMO they could have done the show and had a more appealing intro, I saw my first episode and only through perseverance I made it through the intro.

Another downfall IMO it lacked characters, by that I mean in number.

Keep in mind that I am going to sit down and watch season 2 so please leave out spoilers for me.

No flaming

This is my opinion and it has come a long long way. Bear in mind that I wouldn't even rate BW a 0/10 as I used to hate it so much that I would not rate something that I pretended did not happen.

hmm...That didn't really say much but anyway. I guess you were in a 'TrukkNotMunky' phase as you refused to acknowledge it even before watching it so you going through the first season is a good effort.

Paulbot
24th September 2008, 08:39 AM
Pretty fair comment and ranking Soundwarp. When STL started watching BW series one I suggested giving him a list of key plot episodes, because in my opinion there's quite a few episodes you could skip in the first series and not be any worse off.

You've listed some of the negatives, but I'd be interested to know what you think are some of the positives/highlights?

But also given the posts STL's thread, I think somepeople might drop spoilery hints about season two and three in follow up posts. Maybe come back to this thread once you've seen the next season?

kup
24th September 2008, 09:18 AM
Pretty fair comment and ranking Soundwarp. When STL started watching BW series one I suggested giving him a list of key plot episodes, because in my opinion there's quite a few episodes you could skip in the first series and not be any worse off.

You've listed some of the negatives, but I'd be interested to know what you think are some of the positives/highlights?

But also given the posts STL's thread, I think somepeople might drop spoilery hints about season two and three in follow up posts. Maybe come back to this thread once you've seen the next season?

Personally, I would not be not be as much of a Transformer fan today if it wasn't for Beast Wars. It added so much to the fictional G1 Universe and its influence continues on even in modern fiction in different Transformer lines.

I also don't understand why people went into such rages with BW to the point that they refused to acknowledge its existence, thankfully that's very rare now but I still don't understand why people even refused to give it a go.

I have watched all the TF series and although I really dislike and even hate some of them, I did experience them before making up my mind but even so there are much worse lines out there deserving of fan rage much more than BW.

1orion2many
24th September 2008, 10:22 AM
Headmasters was Craptacular but a good cure for insomnia:D. As everyone has said before watch season 2 as I think you'll enjoy it, I really can't say much more with out giving things away so I'll leave it at that;).

griffin
24th September 2008, 11:53 AM
It is a pity about the small cast, and very rarely do you see more than a 4 or 5 on screen at one time... but that was just a sign of the time. CG animation was so new, this show was breaking new ground every year with what a fully CG animated cartoon could do. I remember them saying that they quite often crashed their computers because of how much they tried to cram in with characters, movement and visual effects. So it wasn't a matter of limiting the cast on purpose, it was instead working stories around the small number of characters they could have on screen at any one time (in the earlier episodes at least). A positive side effect though was that we got a lot more depth to the stories and characters, and not just episodes of mass intros, that gets confusing.

GoktimusPrime
24th September 2008, 12:25 PM
I do believe that I wasn't drawn to it as much as other series as there was the lack of human interaction; I feel that this left me not feeling close to the show or believing it as much.
And this is why Michael Bay injected so many human characters into the live action movie. Human characters help audiences to empathise and relate to alien characters.

I'm not saying that it's an inherit flaw of BW - in fact, a lot of Transformers fans prefer having little to no human presence (and a lot of fans don't like how the movie is so human-centric) - but at the same time it is true that having humans in TFs does make it easier to relate.


IMO they could have done the show and had a more appealing intro,
Yeah, the opening and closing theme music sucks. :/ Beast Wars II has the best music (Cyber Nation Network) and I like the music from the BW movie and BW Neo too. But I usually skip past the opening/closing on the Canadian series. (-_-)

Still... gotta give them points for trying something original instead of just trying to rehash the G1 "More Than Meets The Eye" tune (I'm so sick of non-G1 shows using it... just leave it alone already!).


Another downfall IMO it lacked characters, by that I mean in number.

re: what griffin said. :)
Also, CG animation is expensive. In cel animation everything is hand-drawn. When you want to introduce a new character it's really simple, just draw it in! Woo! With 3D CGI it's different - you actually have to construct the model on the computer from the bare "skeletal" frame then flesh in textures, tones etc. With the Transformers that appear on the show they actually do a scan of the toy in robot and beast mode and also photograph it from multiple angles. They use the 3D scans and photos as references to construct the animation models. It's very time consuming and expensive!

Now remember that Mainframe are working within a budget, as designated by Hasbro. Hasbro dictates which characters Mainframe are allowed to use and when. They did this during G1 too, but because cel animation was cheaper, Hasbro eventually allowed Sunbow to feature most of the toys in the cartoon. Because CGI is more cost-prohibitive Hasbro only allowed Mainframe to show a select number of characters in the show. Beast Wars II, the Beast Wars movie and Beast Wars Neo are cel animated, so Takara allowed the animation studio (can't remember which one it was off hand, but it did air on TV Tokyo) to feature every toy in the show. But the quality of the story isn't anywhere near as good as in the Canadian series...

As griffin eluded to, the advantage of having a smaller cast is that the show becomes less of a toy advert and writers can actually focus on the story instead of promoting a new toy every episode.

It's interesting to see some of the cost-cutting things that the animators do throughout various episodes to save money. For example, with characters that don't regularly recurr throughout the show, their models are relatively far less detailed and simpler - and often covered in shadows or just shown for a split second as was the case with G1 Starscream's ghost (and if you freeze-frame it it's a less detailed CG model compared to the BW TFs, but it also adds to making it look more spectral so it works in its favour :)). There's other cost-cutting things that they do later but I won't mention that until after you've seen them. :)

And yeah, what were some of the positive aspects? Did you like all the G1 and Transfandom references? What about the adult humour?

Soundwarp
24th September 2008, 01:42 PM
hmm...That didn't really say much but anyway. I guess you were in a 'TrukkNotMunky' phase as you refused to acknowledge it even before watching it so you going through the first season is a good effort.


Personally, I would not be not be as much of a Transformer fan today if it wasn't for Beast Wars. It added so much to the fictional G1 Universe and its influence continues on even in modern fiction in different Transformer lines.

I also don't understand why people went into such rages with BW to the point that they refused to acknowledge its existence, thankfully that's very rare now but I still don't understand why people even refused to give it a go.

I have watched all the TF series and although I really dislike and even hate some of them, I did experience them before making up my mind but even so there are much worse lines out there deserving of fan rage much more than BW.


Just as i expected.

If you have a beef please open a new thread as this one is for ME watching BW.

kup
24th September 2008, 01:54 PM
Just as i expected.

If you have a beef please open a new thread as this one is for ME watching BW.

I think you are taking it the wrong way but never mind. I am not flaming you but since you seem rather jumpy about other views or perspectives I will no longer participate in this discussion.

Its not a big deal for me if you like it or not and boards are about discussion/opinions but since this thread is only about your views that's fine. Good luck with watching the show and I hope you enjoy it.

i_amtrunks
24th September 2008, 02:47 PM
Also, CG animation is expensive.

You are not joking there. Back in the mid 90's there was not even a bipedial rigging system (giving a human like skeleton to a character model) and there was no character modelling cheating like there is these days, every object in the show had to be created "by hand" in the 3D software program. It's time consuming, and a single mistake can mean hours or days of modelling wasted.

These days items can be scanned it from models (wire, plasticine, clay etc), and with all the handy tools in 3d Software programs nowadays it is much easier to actually create objects in the software.

If you have ever had to rig a humanoid character model without using a bipedal rigging system you really come to appreciate what these guys did back before the animated boom.

Sure Toy Story looked nicer and was released at a similar time, but the $$$ and crew numbers (not only in the animation, but in the creating of software to make all facets of animation easier) that Pixar used compared to the Mainframe team is staggering. Just watch the credits!

STL
24th September 2008, 03:40 PM
Good to hear ur thoughts, warpy. I too myself was a so-so after the first season. Some meh, some good. The second season is much better and the third is pretty decent too. Some of the episodes like Call of the Wild I remember as being terribly painful and it was only 22mins! And I watched things over a period of 2 months so i can imagine how u feel having to sit through some very slow stuff!

MV75
24th September 2008, 04:28 PM
So do I get to borrow the DVDs next then?

I reckon you were very generous in that rating there man.

GoktimusPrime
24th September 2008, 08:11 PM
Also, aside from the character models, there's also all those backgrounds. All those trees, rocks, mountains, open fields, skies, clouds, water, fire, crystals, starship interiors & exteriors etc. are really time-consuming, difficult (especially the nature stuff) and very expensive to render in CGI. It's not like cel animation where artists can just paint backgrounds for other animators to layer other cels on top of... just like the characters themselves they have to be constructed.

In the DVD special features Bob Forward talks about the challenge of always forcing the audience to look inside a tiny box and never to look out of it, because there was literally nothing outside of the box!

Season 2 shows us a big improvement in the quality of CG rendering and animation as well as other visual effects & techniques (such as lighting apeture, glare, focus pulls etc. - stuff never previously seen in Transformers). And the vastly improved visual animation/effects in Season 2 isn't just my opinion - it won an Emmy Award for best special effects in an animated television series in 1998! :) :D

Soundwarp
25th September 2008, 03:21 PM
I should be getting season 2 soon.

Soundwarp
25th September 2008, 03:23 PM
I think you are taking it the wrong way but never mind. I am not flaming you but since you seem rather jumpy about other views or perspectives I will no longer participate in this discussion.

Its not a big deal for me if you like it or not and boards are about discussion/opinions but since this thread is only about your views that's fine. Good luck with watching the show and I hope you enjoy it.

Good, thanks.

Soundwarp
30th September 2008, 12:47 PM
OMG

I was going to wait until the end of the season for a review but i just saw Code of Hero and it was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So far season 2 is getting:

8.5/10

STL
30th September 2008, 12:56 PM
:D Glad to hear! It gets better ;)

I think you'll love Depthcharge in the 3rd season as well. You really are getting through tese fast!

Soundwarp
30th September 2008, 04:30 PM
Man i was even thinking of buying a Dinobot after that episode!
I finished season 2 and had to rush in season 3 and OMG G1 bits blew my mind!

GoktimusPrime
30th September 2008, 05:35 PM
I think we have another Beast Wars convert here! :D Welcome to the pack! :)

Verno
30th September 2008, 06:34 PM
Man i was even thinking of buying a Dinobot after that episode!
I finished season 2 and had to rush in season 3 and OMG G1 bits blew my mind!

Can I recommend the 10th Ann. Jap version. The colours are as close as you'll see! And a fun toy too!

Soundwarp
1st October 2008, 05:27 AM
OK i'm now in season 3.

Overall season 2 get's 8.5/10.

The only reason it doesn't get any higher is that i still don't like their forms. Struggling with the whole beast thing still.

GoktimusPrime
1st October 2008, 09:29 AM
So do you prefer the more mechanical looking Transmetal forms? They failed to capture the Japanese market who preferred more realistic looking organic beast modes (as they saw them as being better robots in disguise - a robotic ape isn't fooling anyone), and that's what they got in Beast Wars Neo.

From a toyline POV it was the beast concept that saved Transformers. Remember that Transformers was a near-dead toy franchise by 1995. G2 had dismally failed to restore the brand after the demise of G1. Hasbro's research indicated that animals were more popular with kids over vehicles, and decided to reformat the Transformers brand to capture that popularity. And it worked! We all know that Beast Wars totally saved Transformers from extinction and breathed new life into a dying franchise - it was the Transformers Renaissance! And remember that in 1997 Hasbro did test the market for vehicles again with Machine Wars - and that flopped miserably. In 1998 Takara also tested their own market with Beast Wars II, where the Predacons are vehicles (Maximals are beasts)... and while that wasn't a failure, their market indicated a stronger preference for beasts - hence reverting to beasts for the entire Beast Wars Neo line in 1999. It really wasn't until 2000-2001 that the market was ready for vehicles again (as seen with the popularity of Car Robot & Robots In Disguise).

From a story/canon POV, remember that a Transformer's alt mode is meant to allow them to adapt to their environment. Disguise is one reason amongst others. On 20th/21st Century Earth it's understandable that Transformers would be vehicles which they've scanned from that era. But in a pre-historic environment it would look odd (just look at the Predacons in BWII) and less plausible. With Beast Wars, these TFs are in four million B.C.E. - there are no cars or planes etc. for them to scan, only animals and fossilised DNA.

The same thing happened in G1 too - the Dinobots acquired dino modes because they were scanned from the Savage Land (where dinosaurs are a dominant life form). But even then, they're pretty poor robots in disguise. They look like robotic dinosaurs, not dinosaurs. Ditto the Predacons - they're not fooling anyone. And there's this conversation from the latest issue of All Hail Megatron about Ravage:
"Well I didn't expect a hell of a lot from a man who who thought a jaguar was a dog."
"That was a jaguar?"
lawl :D

The Beast Wars Transformers are from the future - a time where they are now able to better mimic forms that they scan and transform into them... animals, plants... you name it, they can transform into it. And it was technology that the G1 Transformers were working on, as witnessed with the Pretenders. Although unable to transform into organic forms, Pretender technology did allow Transformers to be encased with a partially-organic shell. Toywise Pretenders came about because Hasbro wanted a line of Transformers that could transform into humans, but Takara recommended keeping the Transformers as vehicles but putting them inside human-looking shells. Hasbro agreed, which I guess we should be grateful for because I'm not sure how organic looking alt modes would've worked in G1 1988. (-_-)

You might want to consider watching Beast Machines after you finish watching Beast Wars where organic and vehicular Transformers are at war against each other. :)

Bartrim
1st October 2008, 11:17 AM
You might want to consider watching Beast Machines after you finish watching Beast Wars where organic and vehicular Transformers are at war against each other. :)

After being impressed with Beast Wars I moved onto Beast Machines. Started about 3 months ago. Still trying to finish episode 4.

IMO talk about a series that could of killed off the franchise and Beast Machines would be it.

BTW glad to see your enjoying Beast Wars Warps. Although you might want to slow down your viewing. I watched seasons 2 and 3 too quickly the first time around and really didn't absorbe them properly.

Pulse
1st October 2008, 01:39 PM
BTW glad to see your enjoying Beast Wars Warps. Although you might want to slow down your viewing. I watched seasons 2 and 3 too quickly the first time around and really didn't absorbe them properly.

It took me about 1 week each to watch Headmasters/Masterforce/Victory & I soaked up everything in them :) (Although Headmasters was a bit of a struggle at times... :D). It's strange how when we get engrossed in a series, it makes us wanna watch one episode after another (For example, I've already watched Seasons 1 & 2 of "The Office" in about 4 days & I can't wait to crack into Seasons 3 & 4 :)).

GoktimusPrime
1st October 2008, 03:14 PM
Viewing marathons are fun. :)

The thing with Beast Machines is that it is a very ambitious concept. Some may argue that it was over-ambitious.

Beast Wars strikes a good balance in terms of appealing to different audiences. There's plenty of stuff in BW for kids to enjoy but at the same time there's a lot in Beast Wars which is obviously intended for adults (a lot of stuff which just flies over the heads of children)... but at the same time it doesn't exclude kids. Beast Machines breaks that balance and is really just too adult.

I quite like Beast Machines - it's a very, very philosophical story, and at that level I really enjoyed it. Anyway, that's probably all I can say without stepping into spoiler territory. :p

I would recommend Beast Machines to Soundwarp though if he's interested in seeing a story of beast vs machine Transformers. It is also the actual sequel to Beast Wars too (essentially "seasons 4 and 5" for Beast Wars). :)

llamatron
1st October 2008, 04:45 PM
Beast Machines is excellent and horribly misunderstood by most of the fandom.

dirge
1st October 2008, 06:31 PM
Beast Machines isn't for everyone. I suspect that Soundwarp probably _wont_ appreciate it. It's well written sci-fi etc, but it's a _poor_ kids cartoon, and not so great at selling toys.

That's not to say you shouldn't give it a go, Soundwarp - but I wanted to counterbalance the sci-fi-love of Beast Machines above.

1orion2many
2nd October 2008, 08:20 AM
OMG

I was going to wait until the end of the season for a review but i just saw Code of Hero and it was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So far season 2 is getting:

8.5/10

:)I thought you'd like that one, i know it's my favourite episode;):).
I liked Beast Machines but I'm not sure you would Soundwarp, I would think it would take 6-8 episodes to really make up your mind about that series;).

i_amtrunks
2nd October 2008, 09:59 AM
Beast Machines isn't for everyone. I suspect that Soundwarp probably _wont_ appreciate it. It's well written sci-fi etc, but it's a _poor_ kids cartoon, and not so great at selling toys.

To be fair, I dont think the Beast Machines toys helped much in that regard either.

While I personally believe that as a standalone series, it is a fairly poor continuation of it's preceding show.

dirge
2nd October 2008, 11:07 PM
To be fair, I dont think the Beast Machines toys helped much in that regard either.


Hell no. But even if the toys were fantastic, the fact is that the BM cartoon is more sci-fi and less kid's cartoon.