CW Lio Kaiser?

[DELTAprime]

There are images of what appear to be a Combiner Wars Lio Kaiser on the major fan sites today.

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/new-combiner-wars-possible-liokaiser-images-leaked/34506/

Begin rampart speculation.

[prjkt]

Hmmm no attachment to the character.... This might be a budget depending purchase.

[doublespy]

I like the idea. Although the
torso will be most likely just leozack, they made it look like Jallguar combined to, what with the now jaguar themed head, and black thighs. Not sure how it will affect Leozack's two individual modes though. And with the helmet designs representing their animal theme a breastforce tradition, now technically the combined bot should be called Jagkaiser? :p

[Raider]

I still think this is nosecone and part of the speculated computron set.

[Akky82]

Hmmm bit of a stretch to repaint skylynx into that... but combined mode is what i'd go for anyway so whatever works. I have a thing for lio kaiser, after seeng TFC's take on seawing I'm thinking of passing that and going thr lio kaiser or 3p dino one. But an official cw one might just be enough for me.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

The toy pics seems to be Computron. There's also a leaked box-art pic of a Liokaiser set, which seems to have 2 of the Aerialbots as Guyhawk and Hellbat, the Brawl mold as Killbison (who's now a standard tank rather than an anti-aircraft tank), Drillhorn as the new drill-tank they seem to be using for Nosecone, and a torso based on the Sky Lynx mold, rumoured to be Deathsaurus.

[DELTAprime]

If Hasbro is willing to make obscure Japanese characters (from a westerners point of view) in the CW line maybe we can look forward to Headmaster Jrs. in the TR line.

[Lord_Zed]

So every combiner except Devastator is a standard 5 man Scramble City deal now? While it's cool that Hasbro are even going to make the Liokaiser character, the best thing about the toy was the way he was six member combiner and everything bar the head was integrated into the toys.


If Hasbro is willing to make obscure Japanese characters (from a westerners point of view) in the CW line maybe we can look forward to Headmaster Jrs. in the TR line.

If by make you mean repaint existing molds then yes, though not sure if repainting Titan Returns Nightbeat as Minerva would be such a big deal.

[CHILENO20]

I'm in!:cool::D

Now where is my wallet?

[GoktimusPrime]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/meme_chugurluw_zpsjjhdmu9s.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/meme_shutuptakemoney_zps76ac2e92.jpg

A bit of shame that Leozak and Jallguar will essentially be merged into a single toy, but considering that this will be a damn sight cheaper than trying to get a G1 Lio Kaiser off the secondary market, I'm not complaining! :D And yeah, given that from a Western POV, this is a lesser known character, retooling existing moulds is perfectly understandable. BRING IT!

[dirge]

OMG.... :) :eek:

[GoktimusPrime]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/cw_liokaiser_zpstnf1knuq.jpg

[CaminusPrime]

i dont know the character because i havent watched Victory but it looks interesting. Dont mind to have an extra decepticon combiner. any idea if skylinx can be retooled into a humanoid character?

[GoktimusPrime]

i dont know the character because i havent watched Victory but it looks interesting. Dont mind to have an extra decepticon combiner. any idea if skylinx can be retooled into a humanoid character?
The really interesting thing about Lio Kaiser isn't just his canonical appearance, but the engineering turning point that he represents for Transformers toys. Lio Kaiser was the first Transformers gestalt to have self contained gestalt parts. On the 1989 G1 toy, the head is the only detachable accessory on Lio Kaiser. Everything else on the gestalt robot - thighs, hands, feet etc. are all built into the toys. This means that the head was the sole accessory that you had to keep track of and try not to lose. This was a massive leap in design/engineering. If you think of any other G1 gestalt; Devastator, Superion, Menasor, Predaking etc. -- they were all highly dependent on accessories to complete the gestalt robot. Fists, feet, chest plates, groin plates, heads etc. were all detachable (except for Defensor's head).

No other G1 or G2 gestalt matched this level of engineering. It wouldn't be until 1997 when Hasbro/Kenner produced the first Transformers gestalts with fully self-contained parts (Beast Wars' Magnaboss and Tripredacus); and of course, the BW gestalts were fully articulated, so they were a big step up from Lio Kaiser, but Lio Kaiser was the starting point. Other gestalts with fully self contained parts since then have been:
* Car Robot (RiD2001)'s JRX (Rail Racer) & Buildking (Landfill)
* Fall of Cybertron's Bruticus & Ruination

Combiner Wars have taken a step back in having detachable hands and feet, although this was done to improve the core design of the individual toys (as they don't have to incorporate and cater for built in hands and feet). If you compare any CW gestalt with their G1 counterpart, you can see that the CW version has more self-contained components and places little reliance on detachable accessories. This innovation started in 1989 with Lio Kaiser. So I think that it'd really awesome to see Lio Kaiser made into a modern gestalt, as it would feel like the journey of developing the modern gestalt has come full circle. :) α & Ω

[DarkHyren]

I am a bit confused about how skylynx would get retooled into leozack, but it might work.
This will be one to watch, especially since it means that we're even getting official modernizations of lesser known (at least here) G1 characters, so who knows, dino force next? New dinobots? Predaking?
Yeah I know it's been said that there wouldnt be any beast former combiners coming in CW but skylynx and liokaiser sort of through that out the window, so anything's possible.

[Sinnertwin]

I am a bit confused about how skylynx would get retooled into leozack, but it might work.
This will be one to watch, especially since it means that we're even getting official modernizations of lesser known (at least here) G1 characters, so who knows, dino force next? New dinobots? Predaking?
Yeah I know it's been said that there wouldnt be any beast former combiners coming in CW but skylynx and liokaiser sort of through that out the window, so anything's possible.

True, but Lio Kaiser does lazily utilise existing molds -unless you want to see a Razorclaw from Hot Spot :p

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I am a bit confused about how skylynx would get retooled into leozack, but it might work.The rumour mill has the torso bot as CW Deathsaurus. It should be possible from the Sky Lynx mold, but...meh. It's a stretch too far for me.

G1 Encore reissue please (along with the rest of the yet-to-be-reissued gestalts) @TakaraTomy.:)

[DarkHyren]

The rumour mill has the torso bot as CW Deathsaurus. It should be possible from the Sky Lynx mold, but...meh. It's a stretch too far for meThat actually could work, but if they do it that way they better release 6 breast force limbs to collect and swap around.
But I agree, I'd rather a G1 encore of Liokaiser more then a half hearted update


True, but Lio Kaiser does lazily utilise existing molds -unless you want to see a Razorclaw from Hot Spot :pShhhh, you'll give them ideas!

[GoktimusPrime]

Upon closer inspection, you can see that LioKaiser's helmet is actually Jallguar's (although still LioKaiser's face). So perhaps the core component's robot mode is based on Leozack, but they've put that Jallguar tribute on LioKaiser's helmet. The black on the breastplate also looks Jallguar-esque. So perhaps the core toy is a hybrid of Leozack and Jallguar; they might just stick with the one name though. But that seems interesting that they might be hybridising the two torso robots into one.

G1 Encore reissue please (along with the rest of the yet-to-be-reissued gestalts) @TakaraTomy.:)
Now that TakaraTOMY is geoblocking people outside of Japan, you're one of the few people here who can still access their online survey site and make suggestions for future toys!

[CaminusPrime]

The really interesting thing about Lio Kaiser isn't just his canonical appearance, but the engineering turning point that he represents for Transformers toys. Lio Kaiser was the first Transformers gestalt to have self contained gestalt parts. On the 1989 G1 toy, the head is the only detachable accessory on Lio Kaiser. Everything else on the gestalt robot - thighs, hands, feet etc. are all built into the toys. This means that the head was the sole accessory that you had to keep track of and try not to lose. This was a massive leap in design/engineering. If you think of any other G1 gestalt; Devastator, Superion, Menasor, Predaking etc. -- they were all highly dependent on accessories to complete the gestalt robot. Fists, feet, chest plates, groin plates, heads etc. were all detachable (except for Defensor's head).

No other G1 or G2 gestalt matched this level of engineering. It wouldn't be until 1997 when Hasbro/Kenner produced the first Transformers gestalts with fully self-contained parts (Beast Wars' Magnaboss and Tripredacus); and of course, the BW gestalts were fully articulated, so they were a big step up from Lio Kaiser, but Lio Kaiser was the starting point. Other gestalts with fully self contained parts since then have been:
* Car Robot (RiD2001)'s JRX (Rail Racer) & Buildking (Landfill)
* Fall of Cybertron's Bruticus & Ruination

Combiner Wars have taken a step back in having detachable hands and feet, although this was done to improve the core design of the individual toys (as they don't have to incorporate and cater for built in hands and feet). If you compare any CW gestalt with their G1 counterpart, you can see that the CW version has more self-contained components and places little reliance on detachable accessories. This innovation started in 1989 with Lio Kaiser. So I think that it'd really awesome to see Lio Kaiser made into a modern gestalt, as it would feel like the journey of developing the modern gestalt has come full circle. :) α & Ω

Very interesting, I'm definitely looking forward to adding this to my collection
Thanks :D

[GoktimusPrime]

True, but Lio Kaiser does lazily utilise existing molds -unless you want to see a Razorclaw from Hot Spot :p
I don't know if I'd call it "lazy." The endless meaningless repaints of Bumblebee a few years back was lazy. ;) Oh look, it's "Jumping Through Flaming Hoops Bumblebee!" :rolleyes: They're working with what they've got - the existing moulds - and seeing how they can redeco them into new characters. It's pretty much what BotCon and the Official Club do, only that these are regular mass release figures. :D

Making whole new moulds for Lio Kaiser is probably unfeasible since:
* These are lesser known characters in the West. Look at how MP Star Sabre is still shelfwarming here at TRU (of course, their ridiculous price tag hasn't helped :p)
* There would be little repaint potential for a newly made set of CW Breast Forcers. Paulbot suggested repainting them as the Autobot Rescue Force, which is an even more obscure set of G1 Transformers than the Decepticon Breast Force!

As we all know redecos are important as it helps to fund the initial R&D costs of creating the initial moulds, as well as keeping down the overall cost of TF toys. And redecos have existed forever in Transformers (e.g. Decepticon Jets, Cassettes, Autobot Datsuns etc.). :) These are, IMO, really thoughtful redecos. Especially considering that there's really not a whole lot more you could do with Sky Lynx. :o G1 got away with it because Sky Lynx was a pre-existing toy that Hasbro acquired from a company called ToyBox (which was later acquired by Tomy).