Universe Starscream

[SilverDragon]

It's the deluxe Classics mold, with new paint! (http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid-297964.html)

[GoktimusPrime]

Why couldn't they paint Classics Starscream like this in the first place?? (T_T)

[STL]

Very nice. I guess this is what I'll have to buy Jaydisc.

[kup]

Why couldn't they paint Classics Starscream like this in the first place?? (T_T)

To milk people for money. I knew things were going to come to this when they started with the Movie Premiums.

Now it seems that Hasbro will initially release a dodgy line and later do a 'premiere' repaints to essentially make people buy the same product twice.

Although this new Starscream looks very good and miles better than the original Classics release, I still like Henkei much better.

[kurdt_the_goat]

Why couldn't they paint Classics Starscream like this in the first place?? (T_T)

I can see the Hasbro internal email now: "yeah thats great, save that and show me a version with less "G1", and we'll release the version you've just done in a couple years after they've bought it once already!".

[Pulse]

But I thought everyone had this figure already?

[Tober]

I think they are cashing in on the level of interest in Classics by making it available to people who wern't aware of them before te '07 movie. The different paint scheme also means that they can sell the toy to collectors a second time. Depending on the success of the idea I would expect to see alot more of this.

HELLO Universe Classics Premium Thundercracker... ;)

[lcz128]

Uhm, correct me if I'm mistaken... But this is still inferior in paint-aps (we're not even talking about chrome here) to the henkei... agreed? :o

[STL]

Uhm, correct me if I'm mistaken... But this is still inferior in paint-aps (we're not even talking about chrome here) to the henkei... agreed? :o

I think its unique in its own right. It seems to resonate the original toy colours a lot more. I like it. More deep and serious. Henkei meanwhile is full of life. Hasbro's original... well, that's Starscream having a bad hair day.

[kup]

I think its unique in its own right. It seems to resonate the original toy colours a lot more. I like it. More deep and serious. Henkei meanwhile is full of life. Hasbro's original... well, that's Starscream having a bad hair day.

To be fair there are some aspects of the original Classics release that I like such as the wing markings, blue nosecone and other blue highlights. The bad thing is that its a very cheap red paint and the base gray plastic color they used looks very cheap. As already mentioned, they also skipped on paint apps such as the face, turbines, etc.

It's a great color scheme in concept but just badly executed due to severe cost cutting. I wonder why they did that with Starscream since they did a much better effort with Skywarp and Ramjet.

[jaydisc]

Very nice. I guess this is what I'll have to buy Jaydisc.

Alright, alright, alright :D

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060907/123046__dazed_l.jpg


I think they are cashing in on the level of interest in Classics by making it available to people who wern't aware of them before te '07 movie. The different paint scheme also means that they can sell the toy to collectors a second time. Depending on the success of the idea I would expect to see alot more of this.

HELLO Universe Classics Premium Thundercracker... ;)

Completely agree. That, and just simply getting the distance out of the mold. After all, it is a rarely used mold since it has been superseded by the Skywarp mold (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=2144) :D :D :D


Uhm, correct me if I'm mistaken... But this is still inferior in paint-aps (we're not even talking about chrome here) to the henkei... agreed? :o

History has taught us that we can't trust pics.

[Soundwarp]

Why couldn't they paint Classics Starscream like this in the first place?? (T_T)

Quoted for the truth!

[dirge]

Pass. I'm perfectly happy with the plain old original Classics toy.

[STL]

In package pictures

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/attachment.php?do=fullview&attachmentid=10164

You can't really tell how good the shade of gray is on that but ti does look nice.

[iceburn]

so what name do we call for the old Classic Starscream then if we were to accept this Universe/Classic 2.0 Starscream?

[i_amtrunks]

so what name do we call for the old Classic Starscream then if we were to accept this Universe/Classic 2.0 Starscream?

I'm gonna say we call them Underbase powered Starscream! :p

[Pulse]

With Henkei Thundercracker/Skywarp arriving soon, I knew my Classics Screamer wouldn't be able to cut it so I just had to add a Henkei Screamer to my Pile of Loot (with 30% off, it makes the wallet strain alot less painful - Well, You can't have 2 chromey Seekers & one a level of coolness below... :D)

[SilverDragon]

Why couldn't they paint Classics Starscream like this in the first place?? (T_T)

Same reason they didn't paint the Movie toys in their Premium colours the first time around-money, money, money.

At least this allows people who didn't get Classics Starscream the first time around to get the mold as Starscream and not as Acid Storm.

If this proves to be a trend-repainting Classics with better paint-I'll look forward to a certain Dinobot.

[lcz128]

History has taught us that we can't trust pics.
But the lack of paint aps on the turbines AGAIN, it makes me very disappointed :( At least they bothered with the face this time. But to neglect the turbines AGAIN!?

Henkei isn't faultless. FAR from it in my experience (heh - almost sad, really) but I reckon more effort wouldn't have hurt for a 'premium' or a re-release of Screamer. Poor b@st@rd doesn't get much love from Hasbro... :( (Except for the Masterpiece one! :D)

[GoktimusPrime]

Same reason they didn't paint the Movie toys in their Premium colours the first time around-money, money, money.
So true. :/ I didn't get any of the Premium movie toys ('cept for Bumblebee w/ the new head) because I refuse to give into HasTak's shameless attempt in milking more money from me like that... so I guess I'll be skipping this toy too.


At least this allows people who didn't get Classics Starscream the first time around to get the mold as Starscream and not as Acid Storm.
This is true... but it still reeks of shameless exploitation of collectors. What they should've done is release this toy in these colours in 2006, and release it in the Classics colours in 2008! Gah.


If this proves to be a trend-repainting Classics with better paint-I'll look forward to a certain Dinobot.
Paddles (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Paddles_(character))?! :p

[jaydisc]

Yawn. That philosophy is ridiculous and self-centered and this has been covered 10,000 times before. Hasbro does not make business decisions based on collectors.

[GoktimusPrime]

Not all, but some decisions would factor collectors into it.

Choosing to consistently release better repaints of existing toys has to factor in collectors, cos kids honestly wouldn't care that much about it. My wife's friend's son got Premium Decepticon Brawl, not because he particularly cared for the baby-blue or anything, but because it was easier for him to find. The variation is irrelevant to him. I reckon most kids would be thinking along similar lines to these variations.

When we were kids did we really care that much about G1 variations? I remember a lot of kids back in 1984 not even caring about red vs yellow Bumblebee and Cliffjumper, even after the comics and cartoon came out (popularising the yellow version of Bumblebee and red version of Cliffjumper). In fact, as a kid I new more kids who had yellow Cliffjumpers than red ones, and probably and even number of kids who owned a red Bumblebee as well as a yellow. Quite frankly, most kids didn't really care. I did, but that was probably the only variant I cared about. And in spite of that, my first Cliffjumper was a yellow one. :p

When I got Optimus Prime, yes I noticed that I got a blue roller instead of a grey one... but I really didn't give a flying rat's bottom. Did you? My Long Haul was an early release with the rather useless slot on the front grille whereas other kids who got later Long Hauls didn't have the slot. Again... care factor nil. Even when I saw Targetmaster Hot Rod, Kup, Blurr, Cyclonus and Scourge in the 1987 catalogue, they were just variants to me and I really wasn't interested in getting them. Of course, those toys were never released in Australia, but I didn't notice at the time because I just wasn't interested in them.

Anyway, you get the idea - most kids aren't really into collecting variants. That's a collector thing.

If Hasbro was making this decision for kids alone, they could just reissue the toy the same as before. For example, when Hasbro reissued G1 toys as part of the "Classic" line in 1990-91, the toys were almost identical save for packaging and copyright stampage (and lack of rub signs & indents in some figures). It was a great opportunity to pick up earlier G1 figures that we'd missed - I was able to complete Menasor with reissue Wildrider and Dead End!

Making the re-release a variant - and a significant variant at that reeks of collector-appeal there. Especially when you're going to repaint Starscream in old school G1 colours. That's not trying to appeal to kids who were born long after G1... that's trying to appeal the nostalgia of the children of the 80s who grew up with G1.

And the Classics/Universe line is absolutely one where collectors are factored into the decision making. That is undeniable. I'm not saying that it's the only factor or even necessarily an overwhelming factor - I'll admit that Classics/Universe/Henkei is still primarily a kid-marketed line... but IMO collectors do play a significant part in the decision making when it comes to these lines.

If not, why bother doing G1 tributes at all?? Just release entirely new characters.

[jaydisc]

Making the re-release a variant - and a significant variant at that reeks of collector-appeal there. Especially when you're going to repaint Starscream in old school G1 colours. That's not trying to appeal to kids who were born long after G1... that's trying to appeal the nostalgia of the children of the 80s who grew up with G1.

And the Classics/Universe line is absolutely one where collectors are factored into the decision making. That is undeniable. I'm not saying that it's the only factor or even necessarily an overwhelming factor - I'll admit that Classics/Universe/Henkei is still primarily a kid-marketed line... but IMO collectors do play a significant part in the decision making when it comes to these lines.

If not, why bother doing G1 tributes at all?? Just release entirely new characters.

That's fine and true, but you seem to insinuate that there was this devious meeting a few years ago when Starscream was originally developed where the evil Aaron Archer came along and said to the designer, "Are you serious? You can't put that many paint applications on? That looks WAAAAAAAYYYYY too good. And that gray? No freakin' way! Let's use a much more dull, shallow gray... you know, like the KO manufacturers use. THEN, we'll pretend we CANCEL the Classics line and we'll let Funpub release the remaining seekers, and finally years later, we can release the premium version and sucker all these stupid collectors in again!!!!!!!! HOO HOO HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Collectors make up a small market percent of the target market. Don't even get me started about Australian collectors :rolleyes: When Hasbro planned to release Classics Starscream, they're probably solely focused on how competitive the price tag on the Walmart shelf is. The American market is EXTREMELY more price conscious than the Australian market, and boy aren't TFs the best example of that. So much to Hasbro's surprise, they have unprecedented success with Classics. As we all know, Classics was to be cancelled, and the surprising success is what has delivered us what we know to be Universe.

Additionally, we all know that Hasbro has to make repaints. We also know that they consistently re-release their most renown characters. So, as you say, Hasbro could have easily simply re-released the same version of Starscream. But you're upset because they offered collectors a variant? You're upset because they improved it?

As long as you think they intentionally withheld this product in order to sell you a lesser product first, I can see the problem. Personally I think that's ridiculous, and I think in this specific case, since Classics was cancelled, that's been proven wrong.

And lastly, you need to refresh your understanding of what a corporation's purpose is. Hasbro doesn't exist to serve "fanboy faps". They sell product to make money.

[jaydisc]

P.S. Allspark Brawl ≠ Premium Brawl

[GoktimusPrime]

Oops, I meant the Brawl with the baby blue.


That's fine and true, but you seem to insinuate that there was this devious meeting a few years ago when Starscream was originally developed where the evil Aaron Archer came along and said to the designer, "Are you serious? You can't put that many paint applications on? That looks WAAAAAAAYYYYY too good. And that gray? No freakin' way! Let's use a much more dull, shallow gray... you know, like the KO manufacturers use. THEN, we'll pretend we CANCEL the Classics line and we'll let Funpub release the remaining seekers, and finally years later, we can release the premium version and sucker all these stupid collectors in again!!!!!!!! HOO HOO HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
...I don't remember saying anything like that. :/


Collectors make up a small market percent of the target market.
I don't recall ever denying that. But at the same time it's evident that the Classics line does take collectors into account, hence the whole G1 homage thing. G1 is not for kids.


We also know that they consistently re-release their most renown characters. So, as you say, Hasbro could have easily simply re-released the same version of Starscream. But you're upset because they offered collectors a variant? You're upset because they improved it?
I'm disappointed that they didn't release Classics Starscream in better colours. And not just choice of colours, but a better application too.
Look at Henkei Starscream - that was released straight off with a nice looking colour scheme, G1 colours aside... the application just looks cleaner.


As long as you think they intentionally withheld this product in order to sell you a lesser product first, I can see the problem. Personally I think that's ridiculous, and I think in this specific case, since Classics was cancelled, that's been proven wrong.
I never said that they intentionally withheld the product. (?_?)


And lastly, you need to refresh your understanding of what a corporation's purpose is. Hasbro doesn't exist to serve "fanboy faps". They sell product to make money.
...again, this was never my point.

I'm just saying that collectors would have been taken into some level of consideration for Classics/Universe. Ditto Henkei. Both are still predominantly kid-oriented toy lines, no doubts there... but the fact that these lines are heavily rooted in G1 tributes means that they are thinking about collectors at some level even if not at a primary level.

[kup]

The packaging of these new Premiums reeks of an attempt at 'Collector's Appeal'. So does the basic concept of the Movie Premiums.

Like Kelvin said, a kid's parent would not buy the same toy twice. To the mom or dad, its the same toy as before.

IMO its hard not to see this as a blatant attempt at consumer exploitation, specially coming after the Movie Premiums.

What's next? Animated Premiums with better plastic and paint applications?

They just want to make you buy the same toy twice.

[jaydisc]

Every toy that Hasbro releases is the culmination of an attempt on their behalf to find the best balance between:

1. Cost
2. Quality
3. Marketability

Based on their expectations at the time, they made the original Starscream, which many of us agree... sort of sucks.

Based on their current evaluation of those same criteria, they've released Premium Starscream.

How can you call it exploitation if they didn't know about Premium Starscream (or Movie Toys) when they made the originals? Would you rather another Offroad Ironhide?

There seems to be a consistent vocal minority that just likes to complain. If Hasbro chose to use the mold as a completely different character, they'd complain the character was ill-imagined or misnamed. If they choose to improve an existing character, it's exploitation. If they choose to release a female, obscure, irrelevant homage to a gobot, it's handbags in the air.

[jaydisc]

Like Kelvin said, a kid's parent would not buy the same toy twice. To the mom or dad, its the same toy as before.

I agree with this completely. What you call exploitation, I consider thoughtful. Hasbro expects to resell Starscream to the NEXT set of parents. They'd probably happily release the same drivel, but instead they mix it up FOR the collector.

Your ability to complain would no be hampered by this . You'd just modify the tune to "Hasbro keeps releasing the same stuff over and over."

What you consistently fail to understand IS HASBRO DOES NOT EXPECT YOU TO BUY EVERY VARIANT. If you're annoyed that you like the version that comes out after the first version, cool your heels and stop buying everything right away and have some patience so you can sit back and make the best choice!

For you to keep complaining about what is obviously the current process shows a severe lack of understanding and learning on your behalf.

[GoktimusPrime]

If you're annoyed that you like the version that comes out after the first version, cool your heels and stop buying everything right away and have some patience so you can sit back and make the best choice!

For you to keep complaining about what is obviously the current process shows a severe lack of understanding and learning on your behalf.
That would work if we were clairvoyant, in which case we would stop working and become obscenely rich by winning the Powerball every week. :D

I agree that if you have the knowledge available that there will be a better variant, then yeah, be patient and wait for the nicer one. That's what I'm doing with Universe/Henkei atm - I prefer Henkei, so I'm willing to wait for the Henkei versions of the current Classics-Universe figures.

But in 2006 we had no knowledge of Henkei or Classics-Universe so we had to make a decision based on the knowledge available to us at the time. When the movie toys came out I didn't know that they would do a Premium Series afterwards.

Not being able to predict the future is not a sign of impatience. :)

[jaydisc]

But in 2006 we had no knowledge of Henkei or Classics-Universe so we had to make a decision based on the knowledge available to us at the time. When the movie toys came out I didn't know that they would do a Premium Series afterwards.

Neither did Hasbro, which is why I fail to comprehend The Complainers' perspective on this one:

Hasbro's so naughty for:


Improving a product
Trying to make money

Or in your case, it's an armchair criticism where you are unable to comprehend why it wasn't done that way the first time. You simply aren't aware all of all the parameters needed to properly comprehend the situation. Granted, neither am I, but I'm not passing judgement or alleging exploitation.

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't recall anyone here criticising Hasbro for attempting to improve a product or make money. That's not the issue.

[jaydisc]

I don't recall anyone here criticising Hasbro for attempting to improve a product or make money. That's not the issue.

Are you serious? :eek:

Here you refer to their attempt to make money "shameless":


because I refuse to give into HasTak's shameless attempt in milking more money from me like that...

And here you state that this is how the product should have been:


What they should've done is release this toy in these colours in 2006, and release it in the Classics colours in 2008!

So if it is now what you think it wasn't then, that's not improving a product?

I think we just passed the point of productivity. :confused:

[Pulse]

As much as we complain & refuse to purchase a 2nd Classics Screamer, Hasbro will still sell a kazillion of these (http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid-297964.html) which will more than justify (to them) doing the same thing over & over again in the future.

At the end of the day, We (as Adult Collectors) are just small fish in Hasbro's big ocean so therefore we hardly get listened to. But TakaraTomy do listen to us so maybe we should give them more business wherever possible... :)

[jaydisc]

But TakaraTomy do listen to us so maybe we should give them more business wherever possible... :)

Wait for it....

[Thanatos]

I don't recall ever denying that. But at the same time it's evident that the Classics line does take collectors into account, hence the whole G1 homage thing. G1 is not for kids.

I'm inclined to disagree. With the release of the Madman DVDs, you've not only got parents buying the show for their kids, but you've got the childless adult who has bought them. G1 actually feels more universal. If a kid watches this show and thinks "wow how cool is that character", sure, they aren't going to get the range that was available back in the 80's in terms of characterization, but it does make a few characters available. Especially with the new Sunstreaker and Prowl. Out goes a parent... "wow, this is like from the DVD I just bought my kid, I'll pick this up!"

I won't be purchasing this variant as I do have the 2006 Classics Starscream. If I see it at a low price point (below $20) I might pick him up and use the old one for customs fodder. It's not as if there's a lack of figures that Starscream can become :P Or even sell the old figure off.

The new Starscream is just another repaint/variant that we can either choose to ignore, or pick up. I don't honestly find anything bad about this being released. Sure, I'd have preferred a retail Thundercracker or Sunstorm, but Starscream is "the" seeker, as well as being in the 2007 movie as a character, which as Hasbro has no doubt caught on, is a huge selling point.

[dirge]

Everyone chill.

Jay, it's quite obvious that the Classics line as a whole _does_ take collectors into account. If that were not the case, we wouldn't be seeing an improved Starscream. Instead we'd see another yellow (note: not orange) Sunstorm.

Jay, please refrain from veiled insults. You can disagree with someone - and can talk about unfair complaints, but please do so without emotive cr4p like "bunch of whingers" and "handbags", and without insulting rubbish like, "severe lack of understanding and learning". I'm losing patience with your desrespect of others. Disagree by all means, but CEASE belittling others because you don't agree with their opinion.

As for the complaints about Starscream, I'm inclined to agree with Jay's stance that Hasbro aren't deliberately milking and that there is a lot of complaining going on. But they _are_ thinking of collectors.

Look at Classics Starscream in the context of the time. We'd very recently seen the cr4ppy "Energon" Energon Starscream - painted in G1 colours but without bothering to take the battle damage off the mould. And it's not particularly like an F-15 anyway. It was a fairly cheap and cynical attempt to get collectors to buy a repaint (and, as I recall at the time, it worked - fans went gaga over it).

Then, in Cybertron, Hasbro released that randomly dipped-in-purple Skywarp. A rather lazy repaint of Thundercracker. Okay, it's not as bad as a lot of repaints, but the idea was pretty lazy despite the end result being an improvement on recent repaints.

Compared to these, the G1-focused Classics Starscream is great. Granted, the plastic is a little milky and the paint apps aren't perfect, but it's miles ahead of the feeble Energon tribute attempt...

...Takara then took up the same idea, and with the benefit of hindsight, made some improvements. Keep in mind that Takara didn't need to sink any money into R&D - Hasbro had already paid for the mould's development...

...Hasbro have seen Takara's effort and have decided to provide their own improved Starscream. Good on them for doing so - they're considering collectors. Yes, they know they'll sell these to kids who never got the last Classics Starscream, but they also know that collectors generally have more esteem for Starscream than they do for Flare Yellow Sunstorm™.

Personally, I'm quite happy with the first Classics Starscream - it's a VAST improvement on the vaguely seeker-like toys in the previous years - but I'll still give kudos to Hasbro for improving on their previous effort.

[jaydisc]

"Handbags in the air" is a dance music scene reference to a reaction to a very anthemic track. It wasn't meant to be insulting and was probably a bit too obscure a reference for this audience.

[Kyle]

...Takara then took up the same idea, and with the benefit of hindsight, made some improvements. Keep in mind that Takara didn't need to sink any money into R&D - Hasbro had already paid for the mould's development...

A very good point. Keep in mind that Classic "1.0" was originally a one-off filler line for the period before the movie. As it wasn't intended to last, Hasbro had to "optimise" the amount of paint application to pay for the R&D and moulding. Hasbro was bringing something nice and new to the fans. Most of us would have been perfectly happy with Classic, and there weren't really many complaints. But then Henkei came along, and all of a sudden things became very different. :o

Same for the movie premiums. The success of the movie and demand for the toys far exceeded Hasbro and the retailers' expectations. My guess is that the premiums were not in the initial plan. After the success and good sale they could afford to improve on Leader OP and Deluxe BB to make them better or more movie accurate. (The toys were developed while the CG for the movie was still being worked on.) At the end of the day it is business and they want our money, but at least they did more than simple repaints by offering us new heads and the new sword. And while most fans praise TakaraTomy for Henkei, I actually found TT to be relatively lazy and boring for their movie line. :p Their toys were identical to Hasbro's, with the exceptions of Deluxe 74 BB, Premium OP, and the two Trans-Scanning figures.

[FFN]

As much as we complain & refuse to purchase a 2nd Classics Screamer, Hasbro will still sell a kazillion of these (http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid-297964.html) which will more than justify (to them) doing the same thing over & over again in the future.

At the end of the day, We (as Adult Collectors) are just small fish in Hasbro's big ocean so therefore we hardly get listened to. But TakaraTomy do listen to us so maybe we should give them more business wherever possible... :) The point of Hasbro redecoing main guys like Starscream is there are now many more Transformers customers than there were back in 2006 when this mold was originally released as Starscream. They don't expect or demand you who already own Classics to buy this. They're thinking of the big picture of other customers who don't own the Classics version or the Henkei version.

Last I checked Hasbro was the company to regularly interact with fans and hire (qualified) people out of the fandom.

[lcz128]

Upon reflection (since initial thoughts) I think that while it's great that they're rereleasing it so that people who missed out first time (say, they weren't into TFs again till after the movie in 07) can have the chance to get this {Makes sense as well as a 25th Anniversary thing} - That said, have to say again that I'm disappointed that the paintaps still aren't as good as the Henkei release ... :( Particularly miffed about the fans on his chest that become the wheels in jet-mode.

That said though ... I won't be getting it :b

Actually - just curious... How much is a Henkei figure for the Japanese? Is it comparable to the US$10 price tag that the Americans pay for?
Anyone know enough about this to shed some light on this?

[Saintly]

gosh... that's some heated discussion above!

to me, it's just another starscream (yes, I'm a parent but I also grew up with it!)

the paint apps is nothing special... it's more white which means it's going to go through the yellowing process. The other colours maybe brighter and more accurate but it doesn't really make it any better... it's still the same classic mould afterall... which I feel is a good one.

There's nothing stopping you from buying this and selling the other if you feel you got ripped off by HasTak

[sifun]

I'm a sucker for repaints, but I don't like this and won't buy it. Its still a step up from classics "gummy safety plastic" starscream though.

[TheDirtyDigger]

there was this devious meeting a few years ago when Starscream was originally developed where the evil Aaron Archer came along and said to the designer, "Are you serious? You can't put that many paint applications on? That looks WAAAAAAAYYYYY too good. And that gray? No freakin' way! Let's use a much more dull, shallow gray... you know, like the KO manufacturers use. THEN, we'll pretend we CANCEL the Classics line and we'll let Funpub release the remaining seekers, and finally years later, we can release the premium version and sucker all these stupid collectors in again!!!!!!!! HOO HOO HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


I can actually picture that happening.

[Pulse]

Actually - just curious... How much is a Henkei figure for the Japanese? Is it comparable to the US$10 price tag that the Americans pay for?
Anyone know enough about this to shed some light on this?

EHobby (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.e-hobby.co.jp/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dehobby%26hl%3Den) are listing their deluxes @ $18.70 USD while HLJ (http://www.hlj.com/) don't currently have any Henkei deluxes in stock...

[jaydisc]

Actually - just curious... How much is a Henkei figure for the Japanese? Is it comparable to the US$10 price tag that the Americans pay for?
Anyone know enough about this to shed some light on this?

Seemingly not. I just checked toyhobby.jp, which is Takara's equivalent of Hasbro Toy Shop, so I'm expecting they're at RRP, and deluxes go for JP2310, which by my calcs is AUD26 or USD21. Interesting.

[kup]

I can actually picture that happening.

When I read it I also pictured the same thing!

I pictured them sitting around a Dr Evil type conference table with Archer starting to go "MUU-HAA-HAHA" after announcing a deceiving promo pics campaign and severe production cost cuts and then all the other Hasbro designers joined in the evil laugh.

That deserves a web comic of some sort.

[dirge]

Do Loki & Bartleby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma_(film)) burst in on your mental image, kup? :)

[MV75]

The point of Hasbro redecoing main guys like Starscream is there are now many more Transformers customers than there were back in 2006 when this mold was originally released as Starscream. They don't expect or demand you who already own Classics to buy this. They're thinking of the big picture of other customers who don't own the Classics version or the Henkei version.


Fully agreed on this POV.

Classics starscream is so G1 it hurts. Maybe people should be complaining that this is the toy they should have released 24 years ago instead of waiting all this time and stroking their white cats while penting their fingers in supreme evil. :D

People buying now would be highly grateful they can get this toy again (for their first time). Just like I'm highly grateful they do lines like Encore.

[jaydisc]

I'm still [politely] having a hard time with this "exploitation" angle.

Is Toyota exploiting customers when it releases a new model Camry with new bells and whistles? Do you apply the rationale that these are features the 2007 model should have had?

What about when Apple releases a music player with a larger capacity? Are they taking advantage of Apple fanboys?

Why is Hasbro's feet uniquely held to the fire in this same type of circumstance? How do you differentiate the two/three?

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't think it's so much exploitation, but a sign of lack of effort in the first place. Now, Classics/Universe Starscream is not a good example of this. I will concede that in this case it is a case of making an improvement.

An actual example of what I mean is Animated Deluxe Bumblebee. The fact that the weapon doesn't sit in flush in the forearms to me feels like slackness. They should have made sure that this gimmick worked properly before approving it for mass-production and release!! Now they later fixed it with Elite Guard Bumblebee repaint.

What they should've done was what they did with the first batch of movie 70s Bumblebee. There were widespread reports of the automorph gimmick breaking in the early batch, so Hasbro fixed it with subsequent production runs. Full kudos to them for fixing that problem. Hasbro saw the problem and promptly acted on it.

Instead of giving us a repainted Elite Guard Bumblebee, I would've preferred it if they'd just simply fixed the existing Deluxe Bumblebee toy in later production runs of the figure. When Hasbro gives us a dodgy Bumblebee, then fixes it but only in a drastically different repaint... it feels exploitative to me.

[MV75]

But maybe they learned from the mistake of the movie runs that they should have produced a crapload more toys than they did have because they underestimated demand, and did all of those "defective" bumble bees in one run, and the only time they could implement the "fix" was by creating another bumblebee character.

But that's all a moot point to me until they fix the bigger problem of craftsmanship and QC across the entire range.

[GoktimusPrime]

Remember that scalpers do inflate demand for a toy. Bumblebee was by no means shortpacked and Hasbro even released the Concept Bumblebee toy in more than one wave.

[MV75]

Short memory dude. They were out of toys full stop. Remember the great christmas drought? Not a single transformer in sight.

[FFN]

Regarding busted toys: Anybody remember Galaxy Force Chromia with her lopsided face and Galaxy Force Soundwave's crooked hinge that prevented him from transforming into vehicle mode properly? As I recall, the first instance of those issues being fixed were the Hasbro Cybertron releases.


Part of the problem were the retail chains under-ordering Transformers in the first place. As I understand it, production is partly based upon retailer buyer interest and order numbers (otherwise Hasbro would produce too much and be left with unsold stock). Essentially, nobody thought Transformers (movie and toyline) would do well in such a tough Summer 2007 market, and they were wrong.

Hasbro packed Deluxe assortments half-full of Bumblebees, as I recall. Damn scalpers.

[jaydisc]

I don't think it's so much exploitation, but a sign of lack of effort in the first place. Now, Classics/Universe Starscream is not a good example of this. I will concede that in this case it is a case of making an improvement.

Sounds like we agree then, as it's the allegations of exploitation that I defy.

As far as QC, I think we'll all agree that that's never good for anyone. And it does seem that first with Animated, and now with Universe, that some basic testing could have really avoided some obvious problems (BB's stingers/paint job, Sunstreaker & Prowls' paint, etc.) However, I don't believe for one second (and no one has given any real foundation to the contrary) that any failures here are by design in order to sell improved/fixed figures down the road or to exploit anyone.

[MV75]

Sounds like we agree then, as it's the allegations of exploitation that I defy.

As far as QC, I think we'll all agree that that's never good for anyone. And it does seem that first with Animated, and now with Universe, that some basic testing could have really avoided some obvious problems (BB's stingers/paint job, Sunstreaker & Prowls' paint, etc.) However, I don't believe for one second (and no one has given any real foundation to the contrary) that any failures here are by design in order to sell improved/fixed figures down the road or to exploit anyone.

No, I don't think it's currently intentionally done bad to then sell a "better" version later. They've just gone cheap, too cheap, which as a result has lost sales from myself. Simple as that.

I actually started to notice the QC decline with the first classics line, specifically, and pretty much just, bumblebee. ;) But now we've gone from one slightly dodge figure to entire toylines with failure everywhere.

[i_amtrunks]

No, I don't think it's currently intentionally done bad to then sell a "better" version later. They've just gone cheap, too cheap, which as a result has lost sales from myself. Simple as that.

I actually started to notice the QC decline with the first classics line, specifically, and pretty much just, bumblebee. ;) But now we've gone from one slightly dodge figure to entire toylines with failure everywhere.

Which was about the time Hasbro changed manufacturers in China...

The Movie had some QC issues, and very bad paint, Animated has had fairly bad QC in terms of joints and holding together, but the last wave of Universe/Classics has been the worst, combining the two. I hope it isnt a trend developing, or we will soon have Transformers that are more like bad model sets, you have to glue them together...

[jaydisc]

Looks like the official product pics have just been released. (http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=10248) Unfortunately, I suspect they can't be trusted.

[MV75]

Looks great, but yea, plane mode is off...... they should have done the blue nosecone.

So yea, I dunno, I think overall the original classics release was better afterall. :D

[kurdt_the_goat]

Did anyone else notice that the packaging says "Generation 1 Series" rather than "Classic Series"? Not that I personally give a *hi*, but i know a few of you lose sleep over the Classics packaging style for 20th Prime and TRU Soundwave! Maybe this will help you to get over it! :)

[kup]

Did anyone else notice that the packaging says "Generation 1 Series" rather than "Classic Series"? Not that I personally give a *hi*, but i know a few of you lose sleep over the Classics packaging style for 20th Prime and TRU Soundwave! Maybe this will help you to get over it! :)

That doesn't bother me.

That sort of thing only begins to bother me when it seems grossly inappropriate such as a stupid name change or placing a figure in a line where it clearly doesn't belong such as Crasher in the movie line.

TRU Soundwave in Classics - That's fine with me as Classics is G1 inspired and within the theme (although officially this release is part of the commemorative Edition but in Classics themed packaging).

20th Prime in Classics - Same reason as above.

Crasher a Gobot tribute using an unchanged Classics mold in a Movie line - Now that sucks!

To me that is as if they had placed Movie Bonecrusher in the Animated line - It reeks of WTF?

[i_amtrunks]

Could it be that Hasbro are planning to release Classics Starscream make II as part of the 25th Anniversary sub-line?

[kup]

Could it be that Hasbro are planning to release Classics Starscream make II as part of the 25th Anniversary sub-line?

I think you are correct. Just as 25th is a subline of Universe, 'Premiere' edition (or whatever is called) could be a subline of 25th.

[kurdt_the_goat]

That doesn't bother me.

That sort of thing only begins to bother me when it seems grossly inappropriate such as a stupid name change or placing a figure in a line where it clearly doesn't belong such as Crasher in the movie line.

TRU Soundwave in Classics - That's fine with me as Classics is G1 inspired and within the theme (although officially this release is part of the commemorative Edition but in Classics themed packaging).

20th Prime in Classics - Same reason as above.

Crasher a Gobot tribute using an unchanged Classics mold in a Movie line - Now that sucks!

To me that is as if they had placed Movie Bonecrusher in the Animated line - It reeks of WTF?

I don't/wouldn't care about any of those examples you listed. If they released Movie Bonecrusher in Animated, sure i'd WTF along with everyone else, but if i wanted a Movie Bonecrusher, or a new deco warranted a second purchase, i'd still pick one up. At the end of the day you can put them on whichever series' shelf you see fit!

[MV75]

Gah, yah. Just look at the 25th anniversay thing on the top corner of the packet. :D

Pretty silly they're keeping it as "universe" overall though. They should drop the universe moniker can just call it 25th anniversary with some better distinguished packaging.

[FFN]

25th Anniversary isn't really a subline. It's just something they add to the packaging. I would not be surprised to see case assortments with older Universe toys sporting the big silver 25th sticker.

I would expect the Movie 2 and Animated lines to have the same sticker on them in 2009. It will probably be Hasbro's biggest year for Transformers since, well, 2007.

MV75: And then what do they do for the other toylines? And then what do they do after 2009?

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah... Takara did the same thing in 2000 with all Car Robot and G1 reissues labelled as 15th anniversary (in Japan) and in 2004 Takara stuck a silver sticker on their toys commemorating Transformers' 20th Anniversary. Hasbro did the same thing too that year with a red sticker.

[kup]

I don't/wouldn't care about any of those examples you listed. If they released Movie Bonecrusher in Animated, sure i'd WTF along with everyone else, but if i wanted a Movie Bonecrusher, or a new deco warranted a second purchase, i'd still pick one up. At the end of the day you can put them on whichever series' shelf you see fit!

Do you think I would display my Crasher in the Movie shelf just because she was released as such?;)

Also keep in mind that not once have I referred to the toy by the official name :cool:

It bothers me when they make incoherent or nonsensical decisions like that but that does not dictate how I perceive or call the figure.

[MV75]

25th Anniversary isn't really a subline. It's just something they add to the packaging. I would not be surprised to see case assortments with older Universe toys sporting the big silver 25th sticker.

I would expect the Movie 2 and Animated lines to have the same sticker on them in 2009. It will probably be Hasbro's biggest year for Transformers since, well, 2007.

MV75: And then what do they do for the other toylines? And then what do they do after 2009?

Do what for what other toylines now?

If you think I'm suggesting they should just call everything the 25th anniversay line forever and ever, then you're wrong. ;)

[Pulse]

Did anyone else notice that the packaging says "Generation 1 Series" rather than "Classic Series"? Not that I personally give a *hi*, but i know a few of you lose sleep over the Classics packaging style for 20th Prime and TRU Soundwave! Maybe this will help you to get over it! :)

Oooooh, You reckon Cheetor & Dinobot's packaging will say "Beast Wars Series"? :)

[MV75]

Nah, it'll say microman series.

[Paulbot]

Oooooh, You reckon Cheetor & Dinobot's packaging will say "Beast Wars Series"? :)

Yes. Remember when the pictures of that Minicons 12 pack appeared with "Armada series" on the packaging? (And people weren't happy.) I would expect the deluxes should be like the Beast Wars Robot Heroes and say "Beast Wars series".

[kup]

Yes. Remember when the pictures of that Minicons 12 pack appeared with "Armada series" on the packaging? (And people weren't happy.) I would expect the deluxes should be like the Beast Wars Robot Heroes and say "Beast Wars series".

It would be funny if it says something stupid like 'Beast Planet...or Beast Machines :eek:'.

[dirge]

Beasties series, anyone?

[GoktimusPrime]

I'll Bio-Combat you good! It'd be a real obscure leftfield reference if they labelled it Phat Planet. :D

[kup]

I'll Bio-Combat you good! It'd be a real obscure leftfield reference if they labelled it Phat Planet. :D

Combat Colin Planet

[FFN]

Do what for what other toylines now?

If you think I'm suggesting they should just call everything the 25th anniversay line forever and ever, then you're wrong. ;) Assuming Hasbro thinks the same way I do, it's likely to be more efficient to advertise the 25th Anniversary across the entire product line rather than localise it as a specialty line. That way, they can still keep the line as Universe from 2008, to 2009 and 2010, instead of suddenly stopping Universe soon after it started and turning it into the 25th Anniversary line.... then restarting Universe again in 2010.

[MV75]

Ok, now I see where you're coming from. But yea, as long as they keep adding the 25th anniversay and the seperate "series lines" to the package as apparently they've started to do here, then yea, I see now why they'd/you'd want to also keep the universe name there. :)

[jaydisc]

Just because it seems contextual here, here are the rundowns of "series lines" that I had noticed to date back then:


I was just browsing SDCC pics over at tformers.com and noticed that there is a sub-series labeled on the packaging of each Universe Toy. Here are the ones I was able to make out:

Classic Series
Nemesis Prime (SDCC Exclusive)
Stormcloud (Powerglide repaint)
Blades
Sunstreaker
Blaster

G1 Series
Optimus Prime (25th anniversary)
Roadbuster (2-pack)
Dirge (2-pack)

Armada Series
Mini-Con 12 pack

War Within Series
Ratbat (2-pack)
Springer (2-pack)

They do seem a bit random. You'd think Roadbuster and Dirge would be under Classic Series.... same for Starscream. That is, if you make the assumption that "G1 series" are g1 reissues.

[GoktimusPrime]

Well, it is rather confusing with the reissue Prime thrown in there... does it mean that G1 series is meant to be G1 reissues but with Dirge and Roadbuster haphazardly thrown in, or is it meant to be repaints of recent figures as G1 homages like Dirge and Roadbuster, but with a G1 Prime reissue thrown in haphazardly?!?

Why... it's almost as if Hasbro's not paying attention... (o_O)

[jaydisc]

Just noticed that Animated BB is part of a 25th Anniversary case assortment. I hope the stingers are fixed.

[FFN]

Just because it seems contextual here, here are the rundowns of "series lines" that I had noticed to date back then:

They do seem a bit random. You'd think Roadbuster and Dirge would be under Classic Series.... same for Starscream. That is, if you make the assumption that "G1 series" are g1 reissues.
Well, it is rather confusing with the reissue Prime thrown in there... does it mean that G1 series is meant to be G1 reissues but with Dirge and Roadbuster haphazardly thrown in, or is it meant to be repaints of recent figures as G1 homages like Dirge and Roadbuster, but with a G1 Prime reissue thrown in haphazardly?!?

Why... it's almost as if Hasbro's not paying attention... (o_O) The series thing refers to the fictional continuity the toy is supposed to represent, rather than where the toy mold comes from or where it could better fit.

Roadbuster Vs Dirge represent those two characters as they appeared in the included Marvel G1 comic book. Meanwhile, Springer Vs Ratbat, represent themsleves as their War Within versions form the included WW comic book.

[GoktimusPrime]

If I had 25th Anniversary Prime, I would display it on my shelf with my other G1 1984 Autobots but I would never display Universe Roadbuster on my G1 1985 Autobot shelf or Universe Dirge on my 1985 Decepticon shelf - I would display them on my Classics shelf.

[MV75]

If I were displaying them like that, they'd all be on the Universe/classics shelf for me. :p

[GoktimusPrime]

Even the reissue Prime?

[MV75]

Gah, yah.

That's the "series" it was issued in isn't it? ;)

[jaydisc]

Sounds like another Classics Soundwave mess.

[MV75]

Not really. It's easier to just keep them with what the package says/which line it came out within. :)

You wouldn't shove the ratbat toy on your cybertron shelf would you?

[TheDirtyDigger]

I collect Universe/Clasics/Music Label as G1 homages so I'll get this new Starscream for my Classics shelf and he'll replace my Henkei one.