Masterpiece Cheetor confirmed

[DaptoDog]

Via TFW http://news.tfw2005.com/2016/05/11/masterpiece-cheetor-confirmation-silhouette-315392

Guess there will be a lot more Beast Wars masterpiece figures on the way. Will be collecting these more for my son and irrational completionism than for a personal fondness for the character.

[MayzaPrime]

Nice... Happy to hear that it is now officially confirmed

[1AZRAEL1]

Could be a sign of some great things to come ay. Really hoping for at least the season one cast. And Inferno :p

[MayzaPrime]

Could be a sign of some great things to come ay. Really hoping for at least the season one cast. And Inferno :p

I couldnt agree more :D

I would love to eventually get a MP Rampage and Depthcharge - but thats is after the entire first season cast has been MPed

[Raider]

Wow this is great. I was worried that they would do Primal as the only MP as a nod to BW this year but with Cheetor in the mix then there are so many possibilities! Megs, Waspy, Rhinox, Tarantulus, Rattrap.... oh this is exciting (and likely costly!). Love to see the entire first season get the MP treatment.

[drifand]

I expect these to roll out so fast because there is zero licensing issue?

[loophole]

We need MEGATRON before anyone else

[Trent]

Wicked. I'm keen.

I can here the Beast Wars haters calling me :D

[drifand]

We need MEGATRON before anyone else

It will the beast wars one.

[kup]

Could be a sign of some great things to come ay. Really hoping for at least the season one cast. And Inferno :p

I hope so too - The MPs could end up being the definitive Beast Wars collection. Hopefully they will at least do all the show Season 1 characters.

[drifand]

I hope so too - The MPs could end up being the definitive Beast Wars collection. Hopefully they will at least do all the show Season 1 characters.

I am thinking they are playing their cards NOT to so that we will carry on collecting. Basically, there will be a number of us who will end buying any new Mps once Mirage, Hound, Jazz, Megatron is out. I am already side stepping inferno to be bought and sell off as I have no close attachment to the character.

[i_amtrunks]

Season one cast would be great, we now know we will be getting at least three Maximals (Primal, Cheetor and Tigatron) plus most likely a Predacon in Ravage!

[Verno]

Happy Anniversary, everyone! :)

[Bladestorm]

I am a truck not monkey girl but if they make an MP Dinobot I will HAVE to get it.

I never liked Cheetor so he's an easy pass for me but I'm glad to see Beast Wars getting a bit more love for its anniversary. It makes sense to roll out the core cast characters.

[GoktimusPrime]

As much as I love BW, BWMPs have yet to entice me. I think the Cheetor character is one of the best in the entire Beast Saga as far as character development goes. Throughout the entire series of BW and BM we see him evolve from young child to older child to teenager and finally into adulthood. I think that his journey is a really fascinating one and one of the most memorable in Transformers history. It's because of characters like Cheetor that Beast Wars was such a fantastic story, and is still - IMHO - the best Transformers story ever written for screen. If only the live action movies could achieve just half of what BW did in terms of story telling quality.

[doublespy]

Bring them on. Heck I'd buy em all.

Really hoping at least they'd give us the S1 cast. And judging by the character selection so far, this might really happen...No disrespect to Cheetor lovers but if Takara only planned on doing 3 or 4 BW MPs, there's so many more logical choices before him.

[UltraMarginal]

. Will be collecting these more for my son and irrational completionism than for a personal fondness for the character.

This looks to be the direction I'm headed. I finally bit the bullet on a pre-order for the MP Primal. I didn't really get much of a buzz out of any of the generations beastwars toys, but I liked how they looked with the MP Primal enough to click go. I think I need help.

I think it's great that there is some MP love outside G1, I hope we keep getting G1 MP's for years to come, there are so many left to do. I like the idea of seeing an MP BW Megs at some point down the road. just to match up with Primal.



I am already side stepping inferno to be bought and sell off as I have no close attachment to the character.

I don't understand, if you know you don't want it. why buy it at all. you're just wasting your time and tying up your money.

[SuspectimusPrime]

I am a truck not monkey girl but if they make an MP Dinobot I will HAVE to get it.

I never liked Cheetor so he's an easy pass for me but I'm glad to see Beast Wars getting a bit more love for its anniversary. It makes sense to roll out the core cast characters.

MP BW Dinobot in scale with with Primal will be so good - I don't even necessarily require an MP-scaled one... just a Voyager will do...

[GoktimusPrime]

I didn't really get much of a buzz out of any of the generations beastwars toys
Same here, and this is why I'm not motivated to get the BW MPs either. I love BW to bits, but I just feel that - relative to size and cost - the Generations figures were great improvements over the originals. MP Beast Convoy looks great, and I'm sure that MP Cheetor will be wonderful too, but I just don't get the same buzz from seeing these images because quite frankly, the original BW toys are already so awesome that modern day updated versions don't really add all that much over the originals.

Yes, MP Beast Convoy has all kinds of goodness which the original doesn't, but to make the comparison fair we also need to bear in mind that the MP Beast Convoy is going to retail for 12960JPY (approx. AU$165), whereas the original sold for 2980JPY (approx. AU$40), or AU$70 which is a more recent price point for Ultra Class figures (e.g. Universe Onslaught, Powerglide etc.). So while the BWMPs certainly improve over the originals in many ways, the price is nearly 2.5 times more than what the original would sell for today. Actually, the price of Deluxes hasn't changed much; the original Cheetor sold for 1490JPY (approx. $20), which isn't much cheaper than the average price of a Deluxe Class figure today.

And IMO this is all one massive compliment to the original Beast Wars toys, as it shows just how bloody well these toys were made and how they've really stood the test of time quite well. G1 toys on the other hand have not fared as well. Classicsverse and MP Ironhide gave us updated versions of the G1 Ironhide toy that it so desperately needed. Modern versions of G1 Ironhide just completely blow the original G1 figure right out of the water, whereas original BW toys still stand strong next to their more modern counterparts. All the more reason why I just love Beast Wars! :D This isn't a criticism towards BW MPs or people who want to collect them. I think it's fantastic news and I'm glad to see more BW lurv coming from TakaraTOMY. But it's not my thing as I'm more than content with my originals. :cool:


I don't understand, if you know you don't want it. why buy it at all. you're just wasting your time and tying up your money.
Logic'd!

[spiderken17]

MP Rhinox would look awesome.

[Wormz]

I'm just sitting here waiting for an MP Tarantulas

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Sweet, I've been wanting an Odieverse Cheetor for a while but none of the existing options have really done it for me. I'm in, and quite possibly for a Tigatron as well.

As far as future BW MPs go, it's a bit of a mixed bag...there's a few characters who are instant buys (Inferno, Rampage, Waspinator), a few for whom it'll come down to what version of the characters they do (BW Megatron is my all-time favourite TF character, but if the MP version isn't a Transmetal or better yet Transmetal 2 then I'll pass...same for Rattrap), and a few for whom I'm already happy with the versions I currently have (I'm already more than happy with Transmetal Optimus Primal and Tarantulas).
That said, this is probably the only line where I'd be willing to have doubles of characters in my collection. Normally I avoid more than one version of the same character for budget reasons, but Beast Wars really did have some excellent characterisation.

So yeah, I'm all up for more Beast Wars MPs. An official MP Transmetal 2 Megatron is basically my dream Transformer.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

... the MP Beast Convoy is going to retail for 12960JPY (approx. AU$165)...

Why would anyone buy at retail when even the Japanese stores are well below that price?

Nippon Yasan @ 8,280 yen.

Anime Export @ 8,499 yen.

HLJ @ 9,600 yen.

And let's not forget that PC gave us the deal of AU$107 (~ 8,600 yen), free shipping and bonus mace.

I can understand quoting retail prices if you have no options, but the people on this forum do have options.

Anyway, here's a head-on shot (via digitamin (https://twitter.com/digitamin/status/730584823794798593)):

http://i.imgur.com/WkInLEi.jpg

[Lord_Zed]

Assuming they can make an MP Cheetor that has a proper cheetah shape then I'm on board for this, while Cheetors bot mode was cool, his beast mode leaves a lot to be desired.




And IMO this is all one massive compliment to the original Beast Wars toys, as it shows just how bloody well these toys were made and how they've really stood the test of time quite well. G1 toys on the other hand have not fared as well. Classicsverse and MP Ironhide gave us updated versions of the G1 Ironhide toy that it so desperately needed. Modern versions of G1 Ironhide just completely blow the original G1 figure right out of the water, whereas original BW toys still stand strong next to their more modern counterparts. All the more reason why I just love Beast Wars! :D This isn't a criticism towards BW MPs or people who want to collect them. I think it's fantastic news and I'm glad to see more BW lurv coming from TakaraTOMY. But it's not my thing as I'm more than content with my originals. :cool:



Not disagreeing as such, but overall I see MP's as being a high quality rendition of a popular or classic character rather than a straight modern version, if we just wanted a straight modern Ironhide then his Generations toy would have sufficed, but I think what an MP brings is both a modern update and dialing the finish up to 10 (or at least 9.5 these days), and from what I've seen of the new Primal MP the toy just might do that.

I just hope we get some MP Preds (and ex-Preds). ;)

[DELTAprime]

No doubt there will be a Tigertron repaint of Cheetor. Which brings to mind the question, would the Japanese do a MP Airazor?

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

No doubt there will be a Tigertron repaint of Cheetor.

I hope it's more than just a repaint and it's a significant re-tool to factor in how much larger Tigatron is:

http://i.imgur.com/yBgDSx3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rQglQac.jpg

Given they don't have to pay for licensing, hopefully that means they're not shy about the upsize given the base engineering will be the same.

[VGMStudios]

MP Rhinox would look awesome.

That is exactly what I am hoping and holding out for!! He's my favorite!

[griffin]

We need MEGATRON before anyone else

Exactly my thoughts... which I said in the MP Primal topic.
They can do more with Cheetor than Primal to improve it, but Megatron is the one that was most different to the cartoon model, particularly with the arms and hands, and back panels.

It's not a surprise that Cheetor and Primal are first, as they are the Optimus and Bumblebee of Beast Wars, and we see how much they get prioritised and milked in other series.

[Magnus]

Same here, and this is why I'm not motivated to get the BW MPs either. I love BW to bits, but I just feel that - relative to size and cost - the Generations figures were great improvements over the originals. MP Beast Convoy looks great, and I'm sure that MP Cheetor will be wonderful too, but I just don't get the same buzz from seeing these images because quite frankly, the original BW toys are already so awesome that modern day updated versions don't really add all that much over the originals.

And IMO this is all one massive compliment to the original Beast Wars toys, as it shows just how bloody well these toys were made and how they've really stood the test of time quite well. G1 toys on the other hand have not fared as well. Classicsverse and MP Ironhide gave us updated versions of the G1 Ironhide toy that it so desperately needed. Modern versions of G1 Ironhide just completely blow the original G1 figure right out of the water, whereas original BW toys still stand strong next to their more modern counterparts. All the more reason why I just love Beast Wars! :D This isn't a criticism towards BW MPs or people who want to collect them. I think it's fantastic news and I'm glad to see more BW lurv coming from TakaraTOMY. But it's not my thing as I'm more than content with my originals. :cool:


I can imagine this would really be the case for season 2 and 3 characters, since the animation models were so close to the toys as it was. They wouldn't really 'benefit' from the Masterpiece treatment the same way that G1 characters did, except for size, paint job and maybe some extra articulation. It would be a similar situation to MP Grimlock, which from an engineering/design standpoint was very similar to the G1 toy, save for a few tweaks.

[Penetrator]

I think it's great the diversity has come about even when star sabre came along.

Now I just hope they bring on the other cybertron leaders, MP Lio Convoy, Big Convoy, etc etc but most importantly, victory leo please.

my wallet can take a rest with this one.

[Verno]

And let's not forget that PC gave us the deal of AU$107 (~ 8,600 yen), free shipping and bonus mace.
MP Primal from PC comes with the mace? I didn't know that. That's great news!

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

MP Primal from PC comes with the mace? I didn't know that. That's great news!

They confirmed it in a FB post (https://www.facebook.com/premiumcollectaus/photos/a.597995046888754.1073741825.539796449375281/1100720079949579/?type=3&theater). If the deal wasn't good enough as is, they made it even better!

[Verno]

They confirmed it in a FB post (https://www.facebook.com/premiumcollectaus/photos/a.597995046888754.1073741825.539796449375281/1100720079949579/?type=3&theater). If the deal wasn't good enough as is, they made it even better!
Well that's wonderful. Let's get the Cheetor pre-order up!

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Well that's wonderful. Let's get the Cheetor pre-order up!

I'm with you there -- where is that preorder! Happy to put money down on BW MPs all day! :)

[GoktimusPrime]

Why would anyone buy at retail when even the Japanese stores are well below that price?
Sales prices vary and greatly depend on where you get them from. I was quoting RRPs because those are the basic benchmark prices set by the manufacturer. Many stores sell for less, some sell for more. I can't speak for other collectors, but the RRP is the official set price for these toys.

I'm all for pre-ordering toys that you want to get early bird discounts, but sometimes people might be in a situation where they're unable to pre-order and miss that window of opportunity, thus later paying full RRP for the toy, or worse still, paying above RRP off the secondary market. They may be in a situation where they're financially unable to make a pre-order, as there are lots of other things to pay for too (e.g. housing, bills, kids etc.).

Bear in mind that I often paid below RRP for my original Beast Wars toys too, again, due to sales hunting. I paid thirty-something bucks for my original Ultra Class Optimus Primal, so if you want to compare sales prices for MPs then we can also compare sales prices for the originals too. My original Cheetor cost me about $15. But this is probably not indicative of what most people paid, so I go by the RRP.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Bear in mind that I often paid below RRP for my original Beast Wars toys too, again, due to sales hunting. I paid thirty-something bucks for my original Ultra Class Optimus Primal, so if you want to compare sales prices for MPs then we can also compare sales prices for the originals too. My original Cheetor cost me about $15. But this is probably not indicative of what most people paid, so I go by the RRP.

It's probably better to compare within a shop then, for example Anime Export had both the LG-02 Primal and MP-32 Primal at a 30% discount (http://www.anime-export.com/search?search=primal), which would make the MP about 1.85 times as much as the regular toy -- which I think is within acceptable limits for a "premium toy" with electronics, a specialist paint job, extra fiddly accessories, screen accuracy and better quality.

I think MPs in general have increased in price moreso than the regular line. When I bought MP-02 Magnus, i'm pretty sure I paid a retail, non-sale price of AU$99 (I could be wrong, it could have been as much as AU$150), but in today's prices, that doesn't get you much considering how well built MP-02 is.

[Trent]

It's probably better to compare within a shop then, for example Anime Export had both the LG-02 Primal and MP-32 Primal at a 30% discount (http://www.anime-export.com/search?search=primal), which would make the MP about 1.85 times as much as the regular toy -- which I think is within acceptable limits for a "premium toy" with electronics, a specialist paint job, extra fiddly accessories, screen accuracy and better quality.

I think MPs in general have increased in price moreso than the regular line. When I bought MP-02 Magnus, i'm pretty sure I paid a retail, non-sale price of AU$99 (I could be wrong, it could have been as much as AU$150), but in today's prices, that doesn't get you much considering how well built MP-02 is.

I think I paid $180ish delivered for MP-22 Ultra Magnus. That's a decent price considering what MP-02 went for all those years ago.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I think I paid $180ish delivered for MP-22 Ultra Magnus. That's a decent price considering what MP-02 went for all those years ago.

I think MP-22 is very reasonably priced (at least the "street prices" are) particularly when compared to a figure like Shockwave, who I think was way overpriced for what we got.

[GoktimusPrime]

It's probably better to compare within a shop then, for example Anime Export had both the LG-02 Primal and MP-32 Primal at a 30% discount (http://www.anime-export.com/search?search=primal), which would make the MP about 1.85 times as much as the regular toy -- which I think is within acceptable limits for a "premium toy" with electronics, a specialist paint job, extra fiddly accessories, screen accuracy and better quality.
And how much did Anime Export sell the original Ultra Class Optimus Primal for? I'm comparing the price of MPs with originals. And let's say that Anime Export discounts everything by 30%, the proportionate difference in price would still work out the same anyway.
i.e.
Original Beast Convoy: RRP = 2980JPY / -30% = 2086JPY
MP Beast Convoy: RRP = 12960JPY / -30% = 9072JPY

So when we compare both toys at full RRP we can see that the MP costs four times the price of the original.* At 30% discount we can see that the MP costs four times the price of the original.※ The proportionate difference in price between the two toys is identical. And as I said before, if you want to compare prices within the same store, then you need to ensure that the store also sold the comparative product (in this case, the original Ultra Optimus Primal toy) with the same discount rate. Basically, if you did not buy the original Optimus Primal toy at the same rate of discount, then comparing toys at discount prices doesn't make sense because you have this inconsistent variable at play.

I think that the original Optimus Primal is still a fantastic toy, bearing in mind that it is a quarter of the price of the Masterpiece. A friend of mine recently asked me how I could possibly consider the original Rhinox to be just as good as the Generations figure, saying that the Gen. figure blows the original out of the water. I told him that it's because the Generations figure is a Voyager while the original is a Deluxe. At the Deluxe price point, which is about half the price of a Voyager, the original is still a really solid toy that's just as good as the Voyager. Relative to their respective price points, I don't think that one toy is better or worse than the other - they're equally good. Couple with the fact that the original is nearly 20 years old, then my appreciation for the original toy increases more so.

Having said all this, I must admit that if they ever made a Masterpiece Dinobot, I would really really be tempted. And if MP Dinobot were redecoed as MP BW Grimlock, I would absolutely buy it! Because sadly BW Grimlock suffers from GPS and it's improbable that they'd reissue what is a relatively obscure toy. Yeah, I'd probably get both. :p And how cool would it be if they included paleontologically correct (https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/55687d65eab8eaff04a0e1b5-960/utahraptor.jpg) interchangeable parts/add-ons! :D

---------------------------------------
*12960/2980=4.348993288590604
※9072/2086=4.348993288590604

[kurdt_the_goat]

It's like you're comparing apples to very very old oranges though. Prices are up, that's just the way it is. If you think like that for every purchase you make, it's a wonder you buy anything at all! I bet the house you just moved into would have cost someone 1/4 of the price 20 years ago! :D

[GoktimusPrime]

I did say...

Yes, MP Beast Convoy has all kinds of goodness which the original doesn't, but to make the comparison fair we also need to bear in mind that the MP Beast Convoy is going to retail for 12960JPY (approx. AU$165), whereas the original sold for 2980JPY (approx. AU$40), or AU$70 which is a more recent price point for Ultra Class figures (e.g. Universe Onslaught, Powerglide etc.). So while the BWMPs certainly improve over the originals in many ways, the price is nearly 2.5 times more than what the original would sell for today. Actually, the price of Deluxes hasn't changed much; the original Cheetor sold for 1490JPY (approx. $20), which isn't much cheaper than the average price of a Deluxe Class figure today.

For a more recent example:
LG02 Convoy (http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/lineup/detail/tflegend812869.html) retails for 6500JPY which is approx. $80, and is half the price of MP Beast Convoy's RRP.
$165/$70 = 2.4
￥12960/￥6500 = 2

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I think that the original Optimus Primal is still a fantastic toy, bearing in mind that it is a quarter of the price of the Masterpiece. A friend of mine recently asked me how I could possibly consider the original Rhinox to be just as good as the Generations figure, saying that the Gen. figure blows the original out of the water. I told him that it's because the Generations figure is a Voyager while the original is a Deluxe. At the Deluxe price point, which is about half the price of a Voyager, the original is still a really solid toy that's just as good as the Voyager. Relative to their respective price points, I don't think that one toy is better or worse than the other - they're equally good. Couple with the fact that the original is nearly 20 years old, then my appreciation for the original toy increases more so.

Yes, the original Primal toy is an excellent toy, but it does fall short in terms of representation of the on-screen character, and representation is a big selling point of the MP line and can even make or break whether someone buys an MP.

Look at criticisms over facesculpts, hip panels, colour and overly-cartoon accuracy -- that's all about representation and not whether the toy has any level of playability. The reverse can be true also, as a toy can have great representation, but fail as a toy -- MP-09 comes to mind here.

From what we've seen, Takara is pushing representation as one of the big selling points of Primal -- just look at the amount of facial expression accessories he gets! They want the Primal MP to look like the 'toon and they've succeeded!

Now I can understand if you already have LG-02 and are reluctant to put money down on MP-32, because at least LG-02 tried to represent the 'toon through re-tooling, but the original still falls short in this aspect.

There's also another important aspect -- it's about inclusion into the MP line which carries that level of cachet (although this has fallen recently with all the QC issues). Takara is recognising the importance BW has in the Transformers mythology and is rewarding it with MP treatments; and while we can analyse and breakdown cost and value, that gesture is priceless!

[GoktimusPrime]

When I see pics of MP Beast Convoy, it reminds me of MP Soundwave. I love MP Soundwave. He is - IMO - the best Decepticon MP we've gotten to date. But he is also one of the least "improved" MPs when compared to the original toy and factoring things like difference in price, vintage etc. - so I'm talking in relative terms. As an MP toy, Soundwave doesn't really bring all that much more to the table than the original Soundwave does as a G1 toy; the main core difference is that MP Soundwave has forward knee articulation. All the other features on MP Soundwave are more like bonus features IMO, but the core design of the is relatively on par with the G1 figure.

Does this make MP Soundwave a bad MP to me? No, it doesn't. As I said, I hold Soundwave in very high regard. But he is, in relative terms, the "least improved" over his original G1 toy compared to other G1 MPs. This is not a criticism of MP Soundwave or to say that TakaraTOMY didn't do a good job. Soundwave is a brilliant toy and TakaraTOMY did an exceptional job. This simply means that the original Soundwave toy was just that good that even 30 odd years later there is - relatively speaking - little to improve. You can't improve over perfection. ;) And that's exactly how I feel about Beast Wars. The toys are just so good that there's not a whole lot to improve in relative terms.

As for show-likeness, I completely agree that this is a big part of MPs' appeal. But on the whole, BW show models were actually pretty toy-accurate, much more so than G1. As I'm sure you already know, this is because Mainframe placed the toys into 3D scanners and then used those scans as the basis for their show models. The end result were cartoon models with a higher level of toy-accuracy. And again, Soundwave's G1 model was one that was relatively more toy-accurate than some others, and similarly MP Soundwave doesn't need to do much to achieve show-likeness (red visor, there you go :p).

Just because I'm not personally interested in collecting BW MPs doesn't mean that I don't like them. :) MP Beast Convoy looks fantastic, but I'm content enough with my original that I don't personally feel the urge to own it. I might feel differently about an MP Dinobot or Blackarachnia though, I will confess. ;)

P.S.: I think that it's unfair and invalid to criticise the original toy for falling short of being an accurate representation of the show since the toy came first. It's kinda like criticising Latin for being a poor representation of English. :p Look at G1 Ironhide/Ratchet for example and forget about the cartoon for a minute. Looking at these toys purely on the merit of being stand alone action figures, they are easily the weakest among the 1984-85 Autobot Cars. They made sense in the context of Diaclone, but the toys just did not "translate" well as Transformers. Unlike MP Soundwave, MP Ironhide isn't fundamentally the same as his G1 counterpart, Ironhide utterly smashes G1 Ironhide out of the ball park! We can compare G1 and MP Soundwave. We have been comparing BW and MP Optimus Primal. But there is no comparison between G1 and MP Ironhide. Relative to price, relative to size, relative to vintage etc. - even after factoring in all these things, MP Ironhide just demolishes the G1 toy. MP Soundwave leaves me grinning from ear to ear, but I've yet to pick my jaw up off the floor after getting MP Ironhide. ;)

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

P.S.: I think that it's unfair and invalid to criticise the original toy for falling short of being an accurate representation of the show since the toy came first.

It is not a criticism, it is a reason why Takara thinks an MP is required for Primal. And it is reason enough, along with the 20th Anniversary and the recognition of importance, to convince the bean counters at Takara HQ to take the financial risk and do an MP treatment for Primal.

Now as a consumer, you have every right to do whatever you want with your hard-earned dollar -- buy or not-to-buy, that is up to you... looking over at PC, they've sold out of their Primals, and HLJ have him on order stop, so there is enough appetite for the figure to justify it being made, even if it is just a minor improvement over the original.

[GoktimusPrime]

looking over at PC, they've sold out of their Primals, and HLJ have him on order stop, so there is enough appetite for the figure to justify it being made, even if it is just a minor improvement over the original.
Understandably so. :) Even though Soundwave may be a relatively "less improved" MP, that toy sold out quickly at pre-orders, and the local Hasbro version flew off shelves. :cool: And I really hope that TakaraTOMY enjoys the same success with their BW MPs.

[doublespy]

I agree that MP Soundwave had the least to improve on among the Masterpiece figures simply because his show model was among the closest the the G1 toy, but that Masterpiece figure still was a HUGE improvement upon the original imo (and I'm not counting the absolutely brilliant cassettes). If nothing else, the articulation in bot mode, and the proportions in both modes.

I think people often under-estimate the importance of proportions, and how hard it is to get it just right. Getting the generic shape right is far from being "show accurate". If you've done 3D modelling you'd know it's not easy to recreate a 2D design in the three-dimensional form; because a cartoon design is not an engineering drawing with exact measurements, and going by the G1 character sheets simply isn't enough. I remember in the MP10 interview, Hasui talked about how much trouble he had to get Prime's head and face right. Everyone knows what Prime looks like, but to make a 3D object to give that "damn he looks like he walked right out of the cartoon!" feeling, is another story. IMO only a handful of MP figures (not even all of them but Hasui is a master at getting it right) achieved this, and Soundwave is one of them. The G1 figure had a flat head, block limbs; even if MP Soundwave replicated the exact same engineering of the G1 toy and only improved on sculpt and proportions, to me, it's still light years ahead from the original.

For the same reason, Primal is much improved over the original in both modes, and I'm glad they gave him the MP treatment.

[GoktimusPrime]

^Excellent point, but I would still say that in relative terms (e.g. price, size, vintage etc.), G1 and MP Soundwave are more or less on par with each other. Making a direct comparison between a G1 and MP toy is like comparing apples with oranges, so I prefer to compare them in relative terms according to the standards of their own respective lines. G1 Soundwave is a kick@$$ toy by G1 standards and MP Soundwave is a kick@$$ toy by MP standards.

On the other hand, MP Ironhide is a kick@$$ toy by MP standards too, but G1 Ironhide is a sub-par toy by G1 standards. Think back to the first time you saw a G1 Ironhide or Ratchet in the 1980s and what you thought about it. You can ask people who their favourite G1 Autobot Car was, and I doubt too many people would've nominated Ironhide or Ratchet. Hhhmmm... gives me an idea for a poll... ;)

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

And I really hope that TakaraTOMY enjoys the same success with their BW MPs.

Absolutely! And not just because i'm a BW fan, but because I hope it encourages TT to be bold and consider other facets of the Transformers mythology that are interesting, unique, iconic or influential.

[Verno]

The topic of scale within potential MP BW toys came up in a topic on TFW2005. There's no definitive scale within the show as some characters seem to grow or shrink between episodes, but using heights given by the Japanese trading cards combined with the observations from the show, we came up with the following:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/62a9/f/2016/135/8/6/cast_scale_3_by_rh1n0x-da2mxu0.png

Taking MP Primal as the benchmark, who is 19cm tall, if we're happy with his height in the show as 2.5m, it means that every centimeter of MP toy represents 13.15cm. Using that same scale for the rest of the Season 1 cast, we end up with the following:

Blackarachnia - 2m (15cm)
Rattrap - 2m (15cm)
Scorponok - 2.1m (16cm)
Waspinator - 2.2m (16.5cm)
Airazor - 2.3m (17.5cm)
Cheetor - 2.3m (17.5cm)
Tarantulas - 2.3m (17.5cm)
Optimus Primal - 2.5m (19cm)
Tigatron - 2.5m (19cm)
Terrorsaur - 2.5m (19cm)
Rhinox - 2.8m (21cm)
Inferno - 2.8m (21cm)
Dinobot - 2.9m (22cm)
Megatron - 3m (23cm)

[BigTransformerTrev]

I hope they do a transmetal retool of it, I might get the figure then. Was always disappointed there was no transmetal versions of Generations Rattrap and Rhinox. Those toys would be perfect for those of us that quite liked BW but don't like organic looking alt modes. And I quite liked the episode where Cheetor got his transmetal body and was rocketing around the place so a MP version of that would hold a lot of appeal for me :)

[Trent]

The topic of scale within potential MP BW toys came up in a topic on TFW2005. There's no definitive scale within the show as some characters seem to grow or shrink between episodes, but using heights given by the Japanese trading cards combined with the observations from the show, we came up with the following:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/62a9/f/2016/135/8/6/cast_scale_3_by_rh1n0x-da2mxu0.png

Taking MP Primal as the benchmark, who is 19cm tall, if we're happy with his height in the show as 2.5m, it means that every centimeter of MP toy represents 13.15cm. Using that same scale for the rest of the Season 1 cast, we end up with the following:

Blackarachnia - 2m (15cm)
Rattrap - 2m (15cm)
Scorponok - 2.1m (16cm)
Waspinator - 2.2m (16.5cm)
Airazor - 2.3m (17.5cm)
Cheetor - 2.3m (17.5cm)
Tarantulas - 2.3m (17.5cm)
Optimus Primal - 2.5m (19cm)
Tigatron - 2.5m (19cm)
Terrorsaur - 2.5m (19cm)
Rhinox - 2.8m (21cm)
Inferno - 2.8m (21cm)
Dinobot - 2.9m (22cm)
Megatron - 3m (23cm)

Wait. You're inventing a scale chart for Beast Wars? G1 fans have a "scale" chart that is somewhat official and it still leads to vicious arguments. That chart is a blight on the fandom and you want to introduce one for Beast Wars?

This will only end badly. Burn it. Purge it from the Internet.

[GoktimusPrime]

Although the chart is fan-made, the actual heights are based on official canonical material from the trading cards (I have these cards too). So those heights are canon, but how diligently animators actually stuck to those heights greatly varies between scenes and episodes. Even the G1 cartoon had an official scale guide but we know that animators frequently ignored it. ;)

[Verno]

Any chance of some scans of those trading cards, Gok? They used to be online but the site no longer exists.

[Sinnertwin]

Hmmm... Going to need a Legends Class Primal to scale with MP10.

[DaptoDog]

Hmmm... Going to need a Legends Class Primal to scale with MP10.

Forget Beast Wars, Combiner Wars and any other wars. We now bring you Scale Wars!!!!:p

But semi seriously I think you may have touched on an interesting question. Since Primal's numbering puts him as part of the Masterpiece line rather than a separate sub line (like the Movie Masterpiece Starscream and Bumblebee) why is scale going to differ within a line? I know other lines don't have strict scale but Masterpiece has tried to be more standardised.

[Raider]

If we are going for scale does that mean that Primal needs to be a lot smaller than MP-10?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/N0e3wMzQx8s/maxresdefault.jpg

[griffin]

Hmmm... Going to need a Legends Class Primal to scale with MP10.

You could use this one (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Minor)... :p

They're all primates so it should be fine... right?

[Verno]

http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/8/84/World_of_the_Transformers_ent.jpg

Looks fine to me :p

[Sinnertwin]

See?! Scale Wars are real! Oh, they're very real.
Using that image of the two, Primal is clearly far too big to be scaled accurately.
Sigh, Optimus Minor and some paint it is.
Pfft. Thanks, Takara :rolleyes:

[Verno]

What part of 'the G1 bots scale with the G1 bots' and 'the BW bots scale with the BW bots' do people have trouble understanding?

[Sinnertwin]

It's bad enough that they took the next MP spot for an ape from a show that 5 people watched, they can't even get the size right. Sigh. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine trying to recreate that scene with Optimus Prime & Megatron? Not_going_to_happen.

[Verno]

I assume you're being a troll, so goodbye.

[Trent]

I assume you're being a troll, so goodbye.

You take this way too seriously ;)

[BigTransformerTrev]

What part of 'the G1 bots scale with the G1 bots' and 'the BW bots scale with the BW bots' do people have trouble understanding?

I thought G1 characters physically showed up in Beast Wars. Hence why Ravage was of comproable scale to the others and could take them down, and Primal and BW Megs saw the likes of Soundwave, Prime and G1Megs in the Ark and were much smaller than them. Or are you talking that just the genre toylines scale within themselves and don't cross over, so that it shouldn't matter if a MP Primal toy and a MP Prime toy don't match up sizewise?


It's bad enough that they took the next MP spot for an ape from a show that 5 people watched, they can't even get the size right. Sigh. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine trying to recreate that scene with Optimus Prime & Megatron? Not_going_to_happen.

Hey! 6 thank you! I just don't remember it that well because G1 was cooler :p

[doublespy]

It's bad enough that they took the next MP spot for an ape from a show that 5 people watched, they can't even get the size right. Sigh. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine trying to recreate that scene with Optimus Prime & Megatron? Not_going_to_happen.

I LOLed.

I don;t get why people think any BW figure would scale with any G1 figure though. It's like asking for a full on Marvel legends Ant Man in his shrunk form

[Raider]

I LOLed.

I don;t get why people think any BW figure would scale with any G1 figure though. It's like asking for a full on Marvel legends Ant Man in his shrunk form

But how can I ever accurately recreate that one scene where Primal and OP are in the same room at the same time. OMGZ scale will be off! :p

[GoktimusPrime]

Any chance of some scans of those trading cards, Gok? They used to be online but the site no longer exists.
Would you like a set of these cards? Because I have a spare set that's mint in sealed box (and individually sealed bags inside). PM me with a reasonable offer if you're interested.

[Verno]

Would you like a set of these cards? Because I have a spare set that's mint in sealed box (and individually sealed bags inside). PM me with a reasonable offer if you're interested.
No thanks mate. As I can't read Japanese, it's a little pointless. I just thought some scans of them posted online (perhaps hosted here on OzFormers) would be a good resource for fans.

[Civic Bossman]

Maybe a mini-Primal will be the bonus that comes with him?

[MayzaPrime]

I hope Cheetor comes with one or two the accessories that are in his room, the photo with him and Primal would be cool

[GoktimusPrime]

No thanks mate. As I can't read Japanese, it's a little pointless. I just thought some scans of them posted online (perhaps hosted here on OzFormers) would be a good resource for fans.
I'm not sure if scanning and uploading the entire set of cards would be entirely be legal. There used to be a Japanese site that hosted scans, but that site has since been shut down. There used to be an American bloke who had a site with a lot of the character info from those cards in typed out in text form. I can't remember the name of the site though. Maybe that'd be a more viable option -- just post text info of vital stats like character height, weight etc. The profile cards are, IMO, the most interesting ones. The other cards mostly don't offer much new information that most BW fans didn't already know (e.g. describing individual characters etc.). Translating an entire set of trading cards would be quite exhaustive, so I think that I would at least focus on the more interesting cards first.

I haven't got the time to do this sort of thing right now, but I'll see what I can do in a month or so.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Maybe a mini-Primal will be the bonus that comes with him?


I hope Cheetor comes with one or two the accessories that are in his room, the photo with him and Primal would be coolI've been wondering about potential accessories myself a bit.
There's 2 guns, the bomb from Equal Measures, and possibly - if you want to stretch things a bit form-wise - the Transmetal driver. Maybe some energon crystals as well. Other than that, not much.

Of course, if TT wanted to be really evil, they could include parts of an MP Waspinator with each MP Beast Wars release, sort of "Build-a-bot" style. That'd be pretty funny...:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Perhaps the toy could come with interchangeable eyes to represent all the variants from the original toy. Gold robot eyes, red robot eyes, green robot eyes, red cheetah eyes, blue cheetah eyes, green cheetah eyes... ;)

Just outta curiosity, how many people here would be willing to by an MP Shadow Panther?

[MayzaPrime]

Just outta curiosity, how many people here would be willing to by an MP Shadow Panther?

I would, not attached to the character but I am a sucker for a black repaint

[doublespy]

http://i.imgur.com/oImn4xB.jpg

It'd be awesome if Rattrap's submarine was included:D

[Borgeman]

I'm not sure if scanning and uploading the entire set of cards would be entirely be legal.

Maybe just scan 2 or 3 cards so us plebs get to see what they look like? :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Here (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%8 2%A6%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%83%88%E3%83%AC% E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%82 %AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89&biw=1024&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ5Neg5-PMAhWCspQKHau6DXsQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_). Although the actual site hosting the images has been shut down, the preview images still appear on Google Search, but you just can't click on View Image or View Site (or you get an error message).

[kurdt_the_goat]

Site works fine for me... assuming you're talking about http://www18.tok2.com/home/jackhama/transformers/bwtcard_1/ ?

[GoktimusPrime]

Site works fine for me... assuming you're talking about http://www18.tok2.com/home/jackhama/transformers/bwtcard_1/ ?
I'm trying to view it at work and also got an Error message. Perhaps it's geoblocked to users outside of Japan.

[kurdt_the_goat]

Ah that's probably right. The scans are a bit low quality but there's a stack of other historical trinkets on there, like Beast Wars Shampoo :p

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

The topic of scale within potential MP BW toys came up in a topic on TFW2005. There's no definitive scale within the show as some characters seem to grow or shrink between episodes, but using heights given by the Japanese trading cards combined with the observations from the show, we came up with the following:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/62a9/f/2016/135/8/6/cast_scale_3_by_rh1n0x-da2mxu0.png

Cheers Verno! I'd say that's pretty much in the ballpark -- one or two characters may be a hair shorter or taller, but nothing significant. Hopefully Takara captures the overall character build correctly -- wouldn't want a skinny Rhinox or fat Blackarachnia!