Prime Wars: Part 3 Speculation

[Verno]

Part One: Combiner Wars
Part Two: Titans Return
Part Three: ...

I think we've all cast our minds 12 months into the future to muse on what the third piece of the Prime Wars Trilogy could be. Some have suggested Pretenders as a likely candidate, but for me, I'm tipping an overall 'beast' theme. And the name? BEAST WARS! Obviously.

Before you G1 fans fly off the handle, hear me out. There's something in here for all of us.

Hasbro seems to like a 6 wave lines. Combiner Wars had 6, Thrilling 30 had 6-ish, and Titans Return is shaping up to have a similar number. With 4 Deluxe figures, 1-2 Voyager figures and 1 Leader figure per wave, we end up with 24 Deluxes, 9 Voyagers and 6 Leaders, plus 1-2 Titan Class figures for the line as a whole, for a grand total of 41 figures. Let's see what we can do with that:

Deluxe:
1. Beast Wars Blackarachnia
2. Beast Wars Tarantulas (retool of Blackarachnia)
3. Beast Wars Buzz Saw (redeco of Gen. Waspinator)
4. Pretender Catilla
5. Beast Wars Tigatron (redeco of Catilla)
6. Pretender Chainclaw
7. Beast Wars Polar Claw (redeco of Chainclaw)
8. Pretender Carnivac
9. Beast Wars Wolfang (redeco of Canivac)
10. Beast Wars K-9 (retool of Carnivac)
11. Pretender Snarler
12. Beast Wars Razorbeast (redeco of Snarler)
13. Terrorcon Rippersnapper
14. Terrorcon Blot
15. Terrorcon Sinnertwin
16. Terrorcon Cutthroat
17. ???
18. ???
19. ???
20. ???
21. ???
22. ???
23. ???
24. ???

Voyager:
1. Beast Wars Dinobot
2. Beast Wars Grimlock (redeco of Dinobot)
3. Terrorcon Hun-Gurrr
4. Triple-Changer Pounce (Robot-Tiger-Car)
5. Triple-Changer Wingspan (Robot-Eagle-Jet)
6. Triple-Changer Groundshaker (redeco of Pounce)
7. Triple-Changer Sky High (redeco of Wingspan)
8. Triple-Changer Splashdown (Robot-Shark-Hovercraft)
9. Triple-Changer Finback (Robot-Shark-Hovercraft)

Leader:
1. G1 Grimlock
2. G1 Snarl
3. G1 Sludge
4. G1 Slag (retool of Snarl)
5. G1 Swoop
6. G1 "Paddles" (retool of Sludge)

Titan:
1. Headmaster Scorponok
2. Predaking Boxset

And then some Online Exclusive Boxsets for the diehards:

1. Monstructor (retools of Terrorcon figures)
2. Dinoking (redeco of Monstructor)

Catilla, Chainclaw, Snarler and Carnivac would be organic beasts, taking after their G1 shells.

Like I said, there's something in there for everyone.

That's my 2 cents. What do you think the future holds?

[DaptoDog]

Part One: Combiner Wars
Part Two: Titans Return
Part Three: ...

I think we've all cast our minds 12 months into the future to muse on what the third piece of the Prime Wars Trilogy could be. Some have suggested Pretenders as a likely candidate, but for me, I'm tipping an overall 'beast' theme. And the name? BEAST WARS! Obviously.

Before you G1 fans fly off the handle, hear me out. There's something in here for all of us.

Hasbro seems to like a 6 wave lines. Combiner Wars had 6, Thrilling 30 had 6-ish, and Titans Return is shaping up to have a similar number. With 4 Deluxe figures, 1-2 Voyager figures and 1 Leader figure per wave, we end up with 16 Deluxes, 9 Voyagers and 6 Leaders, plus 1-2 Titan Class figures for the line as a whole, for a grand total of 33 figures. Let's see what we can do with that:

Deluxe:
1. Beast Wars Blackarachnia
2. Beast Wars Tarantulas (retool of Blackarachnia)
3. Beast Wars Buzz Saw (redeco of Gen. Waspinator)
4. Pretender Catilla
5. Beast Wars Tigatron (redeco of Catilla)
6. Pretender Chainclaw
7. Beast Wars Polar Claw (redeco of Chainclaw)
8. Pretender Carnivac
9. Beast Wars Wolfang (redeco of Canivac)
10. Beast Wars K-9 (retool of Carnivac)
11. Pretender Snarler
12. Beast Wars Razorbeast (redeco of Snarler)
13. Terrorcon Rippersnapper
14. Terrorcon Blot
15. Terrorcon Sinnertwin
16. Terrorcon Cutthroat

Voyager:
1. Beast Wars Dinobot
2. Beast Wars Grimlock (redeco of Dinobot)
3. Terrorcon Hun-Gurrr
4. Triple-Changer Pounce (Robot-Tiger-Car)
5. Triple-Changer Wingspan (Robot-Eagle-Jet)
6. Triple-Changer Groundshaker (redeco of Pounce)
7. Triple-Changer Sky High (redeco of Wingspan)
8. Triple-Changer Splashdown (Robot-Shark-Hovercraft)
9. Triple-Changer Finback (Robot-Shark-Hovercraft)

Leader:
1. G1 Grimlock
2. G1 Snarl
3. G1 Sludge
4. G1 Slag (retool of Snarl)
5. G1 Swoop
6. G1 "Paddles" (retool of Sludge)

Titan:
1. Headmaster Scorponok
2. Predaking Boxset

And then some Online Exclusive Boxsets for the diehards:

1. Monstructor (retools of Terrorcon figures)
2. Dinoking (redeco of Monstructor)

Catilla, Chainclaw, Snarler and Carnivac would be organic beasts, taking after their G1 shells.

Like I said, there's something in there for everyone.

That's my 2 cents. What do you think the future holds?

If this was reddit you would have my up-vote good sir. And as a G1 fan you had me at Dinobots and the G1 Combiners. Very solid logic and research.

[Verno]

If this was reddit you would have my up-vote good sir. And as a G1 fan you had me at Dinobots and the G1 Combiners. Very solid logic and research.
The G1 Dinobots are loooong overdue in the Generations line.

[Trent]

While it would be cool, I don't think so. They have hinted at beasts in the next line, but Not as in a majority of the line.


Full marks for optimism though.

[GoktimusPrime]

Heinlad should be on this list. He could then be redecoed as TIME WARRIOR! :D

[Verno]

- Edit -

Updated the list above. I miscounted the Deluxe figures. I've got 24 to play with, not 16.


While it would be cool, I don't think so. They have hinted at beasts in the next line, but Not as in a majority of the line.


Full marks for optimism though.
To be a Beast Wars fan is to be an optimist :)

Taking hints from the comics, Onyx Prime looks to be arriving soon. That bodes well. What doesn't, however, is the fact Combiner Wars and Titans Return revolve around a gimmick. Being a beast isn't a gimmick in and of itself. Pretenders are a gimmick, but I can't see Hasbro releasing shells in this day and age.


Heinlad should be on this list. He could then be redecoed as TIME WARRIOR! :D
Complete with testicles.

[GoktimusPrime]

Complete with testicles.
Binary Deployers, eh? ;)

[Verno]

Here's another go:

Deluxe:
Blackarachnia [organic]
Tarantulas [organic] {retool of Blackarachnia}
Buzz Saw [organic] {redeco of Generations Waspinator}
Catilla [organic]
Tigatron [organic] {redeco of Catilla}
Chainclaw [organic]
Polar Claw [organic] {redeco of Chainclaw}
Carnivac [organic]
Wolfang [organic] {redeco of Carnivac}
K-9 [organic] {retool of Carnivac}
Snarler [organic]
Razorbeast [organic] {redeco of Snarler}
Terrorsaur [organic]
Lazorbeask [organic] {redeco of Terrorsaur}
Airazor [organic]
Rippersnapper [robotic]
Blot [robotic]
Sinnertwin [robotic]
Cutthroat [robotic]
Nautilator [robotic]
Overbite [robotic] {redeco of Rippersnapper}
Seawing [robotic]
Skalor [robotic] {retool of Rippersnapper}
Tentakil [robotic]

Voyager:
Dinobot [organic]
Grimlock [organic] {redeco of Dinobot}
Hun-Gurrr [robotic]
Snaptrap [robotic]
Crossblades [robotic] {redeco of Generations Springer}
Skyhammer [robotic] {redeco of Generations Sandstorm}
Roadblock [robotic] {redeco of Generations Roadbuster}
???
???

Leader:
Grimlock [robotic]
Slag [robotic]
Snarl [robotic] {retool of Slag}
Swoop [robotic]
Sludge [robotic]
Paddles [robotic] {retool of Sludge}

Titan:
Scorponok [robotic]
Predaking [robotic]

Box Sets:
Monstructor
Ice Pick [robotic] {redeco of Blot}
Birdbrain [robotic]
Bristleback [robotic] {redeco of Rippersnaper}
Scowl [robotic] {redeco of Blot}
Slog [robotic]
Wildfly [robotic] {redeco of Cutthroat}

Dinoking [robotic] {redeco of Monstructor}

--- END ---

There's still two Voyager spots open. I'm trying to come up something that would fit. Any ideas?

Skyhammer, Roadblock and Crossblades aren't beasts of course, but as there are other Pretenders in the line (and the fact there are pre-existing figures that would suit them) I felt they slotted in nicely.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

You're missing Primal and Megatron. So you could have them in there. Make them TM versions and all awesome blingy!!

[Verno]

You're missing Primal and Megatron. So you could have them in there. Make them TM versions and all awesome blingy!!
Re-issues, perhaps? A few little tweaks. No GPS on Megatron...

[Jaxius._]

How about:
Cybershark (Skybite redeco)
Leo Prime (not lio convoy. Alpha Trion or GO Prime)

[Bladestorm]

If we're going on size wouldn't part 3 be Planet Wars?

Unicron vs Primus with I'm guessing lots of add-ons (a-la mini-con style) to kit out your planet?

I'm not adverse to the idea of Beast Wars as i'd really like a dinobot figure at some point but I'm not convinced they would re-visit it with the vigor they did with G1 in Combiner Wars.

[Verno]

How about:
Cybershark (Skybite redeco)
Leo Prime (not lio convoy. Alpha Trion or GO Prime)
I was hoping there was some kind of 3rd mode on Generations Sky-Bite. That way he could be used as Finback or Splashdown.


If we're going on size wouldn't part 3 be Planet Wars?

Unicron vs Primus with I'm guessing lots of add-ons (a-la mini-con style) to kit out your planet?

I'm not adverse to the idea of Beast Wars as i'd really like a dinobot figure at some point but I'm not convinced they would re-visit it with the vigor they did with G1 in Combiner Wars.
Unicron has never been mentioned in the IDW comics.

Meanwhile, Galvatron just told us that Onyx Prime is on his way. Because of the strong partnership between IDW and Hasbro, I'm taking this as more than a passing reference.

[Raider]

I'd like it to be micromasters and powermasters but I doubt the former given they have already remastered these in armada (unless they are super tight and just repaint them all).

It could be something like Rise of the Humans and they have humans developing micromasters technology to make them an even bigger player in the picture. So this way micromasters are inhabited by humans. Some side with Autobots, some with Decepticons and others are neutral or against both.

[GoktimusPrime]

The idea of Micromasters would be a good lead in to Beast Wars. I always liked how there was an implied link between Micromasters and BW TFs. ;)

[Lint]

Part 3 is quite clearly going to be Action Masters, then Hasbro can reclaim beloved licenses such as Hydro-pack and Anti-tank Cannon :p

[BigTransformerTrev]

I don't think part 3 of the Prime Wars trilogy will be Beast Wars. Even the title Prime Wars: Beast Wars doesn't roll off the tongue, though I suppose Prime Wars: Combiner Wars didn't either.

I think what Hasbro has been striving for with the first two parts has been interactivity between toys and that theme will continue for the third installment.

With the Combiner Wars toys, there have been so many torso characters and dozens of limb characters that there are literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of different configurations you can make. Within the one subgroup there are plenty (just switching the limbs around on Menasor for example) but when you mix up groups you can have a Stunticon torso with a Protectobot arm, an Aerielbot leg, a Combaticon arm and a Technobot leg just for example. So many different combinations!

With Titans Return the Titan Master partners have achieved much of a similar thing. You can have Hardhead in tank mode with the Titan Master figures from a slew of different characters riding him, Optimus in Base mode with a bunch of different Titan Masters manning guns or walking on ramps, or you can have all your Leader, Deluxe and Voyager figures as robots and have both the heads and the characters sitting in the gun slots playing the equivalent of musical chairs. Again, a slew of combinations!

Bear in mind I've gained these insights from watching my son play with my toys, I'm too old and rigid to place First Aid on Computrons arm or put Skullsmashers head on Highbrow :o:p


So yeah, I think the third installment will go along the same lines. It wont be Beast Wars and I highly doubt it will be Pretenders or Action Masters either. Certainly not Minicons as RID(15) has that covered. I don't reckon Targetmaster either. It could possibly be Micromasters, since you can swap around the front and backs of vehicles to make new ones and they can interact with bases which can hook up. There is a lot of variety and interactivity between toys to be had. But for some reason I don't see it happening. We may see something brand new, or a variation on an old gimick we had not thought of (like the Headmasters riding in guns and having their own little vehicles). Guess we will just have to see :)

[SMHFConvoy]

My money's on, "The Great Cybertronian Bake Off."

[Verno]

Trev, your point is the one lingering doubt in my mind -- the lack of interactivity in a potential beast-only line.

To combat this, I propose the entire swathe of Legends figures will be Targetmasters. So while there isn't an inherent gimmick to the line, every figure is capable of wielding these smaller figures as weapons.

But you're right, Trev. It's a waiting game. It's fun to ponder, however.

[UltimateGalvatron]

I actually really like the idea of Micromasters. You could have the line be similiar to Armada in that the 'Legends' Price Point is just three Micromasters, a Micromaster Team. Then Deluxes could be one Micromaster with a small base/vehicle, Voyager could be one Micromaster with a big base/vehicle and Leader a bigGER base with two or maybe even three Micromasters. And you could have the bases and vehicles be transformable. That'd be sick.

[prjkt]

I actually really like the idea of Micromasters. You could have the line be similiar to Armada in that the 'Legends' Price Point is just three Micromasters, a Micromaster Team. Then Deluxes could be one Micromaster with a small base/vehicle, Voyager could be one Micromaster with a big base/vehicle and Leader a bigGER base with two or maybe even three Micromasters. And you could have the bases and vehicles be transformable. That'd be sick.

Interesting - could take the current Titanmaster head & vehicle to the next level...

[UltimateGalvatron]

Interesting - could take the current Titanmaster head & vehicle to the next level...

Yes.

[prjkt]

I'd kind of like to see a combiner based on that concept - having the micromasters be integral to the connection of their vehicles into a mega-bot - Voltron vehicle style perhaps?

[Verno]

If we're talking about more Combiners in the third wave, a theme soon emerges. Let's have a look. There are 10 main G1 combiners in the western hemisphere:

Devastator
Bruticus
Defensor
Menasor
Superion
Computron
Predaking
Abominus
Monstructor
Piranacon

The first six were all done in Combiner Wars. They needn't be done again for another 30 years.

The final four, however, were all omissions from Combiner Wars, and all four are made up of individual figures with beastly alt-modes. This can't be a coincidence.

I'd be delighted to see Predaking, Abominus, Monstructor and Piranacon turn up in the third part of the trilogy, and with a little bit on tinkering (and some squinting), all it would take is 8 new molds to bring them all to life.

Predaking:
Razorclaw (Torso) - Lion [1]
Divebomb - Eagle [2]
Rampage - Tiger [3]
Tantrum - Buffalo [3] {Retool of Rampage}
Headstrong - Rhino [3] {Retool of Rampage}

Abominus:
Hun-Gurrr (Torso) - Two-Headed Dragon [4]
Rippersnapper - Land Shark [5]
Blot - Monster [6]
Sinnertwin - Two-Headed Dragon [3] {Retool of Rampage}
Cutthroat - Hawk Monster [2] {Retool of Divebomb}

Piranacon:
Snaptrap (Torso) - Tortoise [7]
Overbite - Land Shark [5] {Retool of Rippersnapper}
Seawing - Manta Ray [2] {Retool of Divebomb}
Skalor - Land Shark [6] {Retool of Rippersnapper}
Tentakil - Squid [6] {Retool of Blot}
Nautilator - Lobster (Weapon) [8]

Monstructor:
Bristleback (Torso) - Tortoise [7] {Retool of Snaptrap}
Slog - Monster [6] {Retool of Blot}
Birdbrain - Bird Monster [2] {Retool of Divebomb}
Icepick - Monster (Weapon) [8] {Retool of Nautilator
Scowl - Monster [6] {Retool of Blot}
Wildfly - Bird Monster [2] {Retool of Divebomb}

Combiner Wars demonstrated just how keen Hasbro were to use redecos and retools, so I'm being as brutal in this list as possible to minimise the number of new molds needed.

[DaptoDog]

If we're talking about more Combiners in the third wave, a theme soon emerges. Let's have a look. There are 10 main G1 combiners in the western hemisphere:

Devastator
Bruticus
Defensor
Menasor
Superion
Computron
Predaking
Abominus
Monstructor
Piranacon

The first six were all done in Combiner Wars. They needn't be done again for another 30 years.

The final four, however, were all omissions from Combiner Wars, and all four are made up of individual figures with beastly alt-modes. This can't be a coincidence.

I'd be delighted to see Predaking, Abominus, Monstructor and Piranacon turn up in the third part of the trilogy, and with a little bit on tinkering (and some squinting), all it would take is 8 new molds to bring them all to life.

Predaking:
Razorclaw (Torso) - Lion [1]
Divebomb - Eagle [2]
Rampage - Tiger [3]
Tantrum - Buffalo [3] {Retool of Rampage}
Headstrong - Rhino [3] {Retool of Rampage}

Abominus:
Hun-Gurrr (Torso) - Two-Headed Dragon [4]
Rippersnapper - Land Shark [5]
Blot - Monster [6]
Sinnertwin - Two-Headed Dragon [3] {Retool of Rampage}
Cutthroat - Hawk Monster [2] {Retool of Divebomb}

Piranacon:
Snaptrap (Torso) - Tortoise [7]
Overbite - Land Shark [5] {Retool of Rippersnapper}
Seawing - Manta Ray [2] {Retool of Divebomb}
Skalor - Land Shark [6] {Retool of Rippersnapper}
Tentakil - Squid [6] {Retool of Blot}
Nautilator - Lobster (Weapon) [8]

Monstructor:
Bristleback (Torso) - Tortoise [7] {Retool of Snaptrap}
Slog - Monster [6] {Retool of Blot}
Birdbrain - Bird Monster [2] {Retool of Divebomb}
Icepick - Monster (Weapon) [8] {Retool of Nautilator
Scowl - Monster [6] {Retool of Blot}
Wildfly - Bird Monster [2] {Retool of Divebomb}

Combiner Wars demonstrated just how keen Hasbro were to use redecos and retools, so I'm being as brutal in this list as possible to minimise the number of new molds needed.

One thing that is problematic is that all four remaining combiners are all Decepticons. How will they craft a story around that? Not saying that it can't be done, just that it will be interesting to see who they pit against them? You would have to think Dinobots are an obvious choice, but who else?

[Paulbot]

One thing that is problematic is that all four remaining combiners are all Decepticons. How will they craft a story around that? Not saying that it can't be done, just that it will be interesting to see who they pit against them? You would have to think Dinobots are an obvious choice, but who else?

Well there's the Anibots (but those are probably better as a box set exclusive along with Dinoking).

But storywise it could be made to work. In 1985 only the Decepticons had a combiner, but the Autobots had the Dinobots (as a group) and Omega Supreme (by himself) who could go up against it. Really you just have to give the Autobots their own thing, which could be a set of (non-combining) Dinobots or a new Omega Supreme (or both please!) Or if could be the Autobots embrace Micromasters (swarm attacks) or power up with Powermasters?

The other two parts of this new trilogy have had line wide-gimmicks, but the same was true for Armada and Cybertron, meanwhile Energon made combining the gimmick for the Autobots but gave Decepticons attack modes.

[Verno]

One thing that is problematic is that all four remaining combiners are all Decepticons. How will they craft a story around that? Not saying that it can't be done, just that it will be interesting to see who they pit against them? You would have to think Dinobots are an obvious choice, but who else?
From what I understand (I'm a little behind on the comics) Computron didn't appear in Combiner Wars, and nor did Bruticus (who has only just turned up in the Til All Are One series). So just because the combiners are produced doesn't necessarily mean they're included in the comics (though no doubt Hasbro would like them to be).

As for story, we could go back to being at war, with the Decepticons having possession of the Enigma of Combination and going a little nuts with it.

Another Prime (Onyx, perhaps) could turn up and recruit those with animalistic alt-modes to his army. He was once allied with Nexus Prime, so might have some insights into combiners.

There's heaps of room there for story.

[Lint]

One thing that is problematic is that all four remaining combiners are all Decepticons. How will they craft a story around that? Not saying that it can't be done, just that it will be interesting to see who they pit against them? You would have to think Dinobots are an obvious choice, but who else?

Beast Hunter Optimus Prime and Bumblebee of course! :D
Each will come with their own mini-beast partner who can transform into a weapon or shield. Furthermore all beast hunter deluxes can ride on Dinobots who have 5mm hole all over them to mount all those mini-beast weapons dino-riders style!

[DaptoDog]

But storywise it could be made to work. In 1985 only the Decepticons had a combiner, but the Autobots had the Dinobots (as a group) and Omega Supreme (by himself) who could go up against it. Really you just have to give the Autobots their own thing, which could be a set of (non-combining) Dinobots or a new Omega Supreme (or both please!)

I'd be all for Omega Supreme, he's my fave Titan class character. Though it didn't win the Titan class fan vote, so perhaps it won't get released until 2018.

[UltimateGalvatron]

I was just watching the old G1 Micromaster ads...

This would be so good as Generations.

[Verno]

I was just watching the old G1 Micromaster ads...

This would be so good as Generations.
Isn't Titans Return essentially covering that? Bases that small figures can man?

[UltimateGalvatron]

Isn't Titans Return essentially covering that? Bases that small figures can man?

Not really. Its more of the Headmasters theme. Micromasters transform into little vehicles THEMSELVES, and the cities and bases would transform from vehicles and don't have their own robot modes.

[Verno]

Not really. Its more of the Headmasters theme. Micromasters transform into little vehicles THEMSELVES, and the cities and bases would transform from vehicles and don't have their own robot modes.
Taking it back to the fundamentals, it's bases with little figures though right?

[UltimateGalvatron]

Taking it back to the fundamentals, it's bases with little figures though right?

Yep.

[DaptoDog]

Taking it back to the fundamentals, it's bases with little figures though right?

Well taking it back to their very basis they are all Transformers right? I agree with Ultimate Galvatron that Micromasters is a sufficiently different concept to the current Titans Return line to warrant a role in Part 3. I had a lot of fun with the little teams and Skystalker towards the end of my Transformers childhood. Certainly a more deserving line to pursue over Pretenders. But odds are Part 3 will be the Beast theme you are projecting.

[Verno]

All options are on the table at this stage. Yes, I'm for more beasts, but the interesting thing that Hasbro just did was invent a new Class size.

Titan, Leader, Voyager, Deluxe, Legend -- and now Titan Master, and this smaller classification opens all kinds of doors for Powermasters, Targetmasters and Micromasters.

It all adds to the possibility of what the third line could entail.

[Lord_Zed]

I dunno, Hasbro seems wary of releasing a Beast heavy line again, maybe the odd beast toy or combiner, but I do not think they are keen to release large numbers of beast toys.


Based on their theme of toys that interact with each other and the pic they showed at the end of Comicon (or whenever it was) I predict the possibility of a line loosely based on the Duocons. Think about it each toy comes with two altmodes that combine to form one robot one forms the top half and the other the bottom half, and then you can mix and match them with other toys, maybe they will even have Titanmasters?

Obviously Overlord and the two existing Duocons are the obvious fit for such a line, but that wont stop Hasbro shoehorning Megatron, Prime and others in to it.

[UltimateGalvatron]

I dunno, Hasbro seems wary of releasing a Beast heavy line again, maybe the odd beast toy or combiner, but I do not think they are keen to release large numbers of beast toys.

.

Thats pretty true if you look at the last few toylines.

[Verno]

I dunno, Hasbro seems wary of releasing a Beast heavy line again, maybe the odd beast toy or combiner, but I do not think they are keen to release large numbers of beast toys.


Based on their theme of toys that interact with each other and the pic they showed at the end of Comicon (or whenever it was) I predict the possibility of a line loosely based on the Duocons. Think about it each toy comes with two altmodes that combine to form one robot one forms the top half and the other the bottom half, and then you can mix and match them with other toys, maybe they will even have Titanmasters?

Obviously Overlord and the two existing Duocons are the obvious fit for such a line, but that wont stop Hasbro shoehorning Megatron, Prime and others in to it.
A line is made up of 6 Waves and some nearly 60 toys. Could Duocons really fill that many slots, seeing as traditionally there are only two of them?

People have been up in arms about non-traditional Headmasters being made thus in Titans Returns, but such was the necessity to fill all the waves.

I'm inclined to think the Duocons (and Overlord) will turn up in the latter waves of Titans Return, sometime in 2017.

[UltimateGalvatron]

A line is made up of 6 Waves and some nearly 60 toys. Could Duocons really fill that many slots, seeing as traditionally there are only two of them?

People have been up in arms about non-traditional Headmasters being made thus in Titans Returns, but such was the necessity to fill all the waves.

I'm inclined to think the Duocons (and Overlord) will turn up in the latter waves of Titans Return, sometime in 2017.

I agree with Lord Zed on Hasbro being wary of Beast lines, but I also agree with you here, I don't think they could make an entire line of Duocons (especially since Battletrap just got a TFCC toy and Flywheels has been made a Titan Master.)

[Verno]

I agree with Lord Zed on Hasbro being wary of Beast lines, but I also agree with you here, I don't think they could make an entire line of Duocons (especially since Battletrap just got a TFCC toy and Flywheels has been made a Titan Master.)
I can certainly understand if Hasbro did have reservations about a purely beast line, but the strange thing is, I actually have faith in G1 fans for it to succeed.

Prime: Beast Hunters was awful. The aesthetic was horrific to look at. I think this is the root cause of anxiety within the fandom towards beasts at the moment (perhaps with a slight hangover still lingering from Beast Machines all those years ago). A Generations line of beasts would be totally different, because it would be playing to the strengths of G1 -- both in terms of characters and design.

For example, an updated set of G1 Dinobots toys would look like the G1 Dinobots. There wouldn't be some weird aesthetic creeping in, or some over-baring gimmick ruining the toy -- they'd be just as fans want them (within reason {see: Titans Return Galvatron}).

[Paulbot]

Just wanted to note that as well as the Duocons and Overlord, there's also Multiforce for a bunch of robots that could be made up of two vehicles. And you could potentially homage most of the Autobots from Energon too.

[Verno]

Just wanted to note that as well as the Duocons and Overlord, there's also Multiforce for a bunch of robots that could be made up of two vehicles. And you could potentially homage most of the Autobots from Energon too.
Well, aren't those Multiforce figures nifty little things. Bot to Alt-Mode to Semi-Combiner to Combiner Limb. They do it all!

A Landcross made up of redecoed Combiner Wars bots is always possible. I'd be surprised if TT hadn't considered it.

[Verno]

Let's go the whole hog...

Beast Master:
Nautilator (Piranacon Weapon)
Icepick (Monstructor Weapon)
Razor-Sharp
Sights
Gatoraider
Lionizer
Top-Heavy
Catgut
Scorpulator
Needler
Screech
Tyrannitron
Fire Beast
Wingthing
Steeljaw
Ramhorn
Laserbeak
Buzzsaw
Ratbat
Ravage
Slugfest
Overkill
Beastbox
Squawktalk

Legend:
Overbite (Piranacon Limb)
Seawing (Piranacon Limb)
Skalor (Piranacon Limb)
Tentakil (Piranacon Limb)
Slog (Monstructor Limb)
Birdbrain (Monstructor Limb)
Scowl (Monstructor Limb)
Wildfly (Monstructor Limb)
Rippersnapper (Abominus Limb)
Blot (Abominus Limb)
Sinnertwin (Abominus Limb)
Cutthroat (Abominus Limb)
Venom
Barrage
Ransack
Allicon (Retool of Titans Return Gnaw)
Break
Stampy

Deluxe:
Snaptrap (Piranacon Torso)
Bristleback (Monstructor Torso)
Hun-Gurrr (Abominus Torso)
Divebomb (Predaking Limb)
Tantrum (Predaking Limb)
Headstrong (Predaking Limb)
Rampage (Predaking Limb)
Beast Wars Blackarachnia
Beast Wars Tarantulas (Retool of Beast Wars Blackarachnia)
Catilla
Beast Wars Cheetor (Retool of Catilla)
Beast Wars Tigatron (Retool of Catilla)
Ravage (Retool of Catilla)
Chainclaw
Beast Wars Polar Claw (Retool of Chainclaw)
Carnivac
Beast Wars Wolfang (Retool of Carnivac)
Beast Wars K-9 (Retool of Carnivac)
Snarler
Beast Wars Razorbeast (Retool of Snarler)
Beast Wars Terrorsaur
Beast Wars Lazorbeak (Redeco of Terrorsaur)
Beast Wars Airazor
Beast Wars Buzz Saw (Redeco of Generations Waspinator)

Voyager:
Razorclaw (Predaking Torso)
Grimlock
Slag
Snarl (Retool of Slag)
Swoop
Sludge
Paddles (Retool of Sludge)
Beast Wars Dinobot
Beast Wars Grimlock (Redeco of Beast Wars Dinobot)

Leader:
Onyx Prime
Optimus Prime
Thunder Clash (Retool of Optimus Prime)
Megatron
Dreadwing (Retool of Megatron)
Thunderwing

Titan:
Scorponok
Omega Supreme

There we have it. 83 figures over 6 size classes, incorporating Combiners, Pretenders, Insecticons, Dinobots, Cassettes, Headmasters, Beast Wars and Action Masters characters with an overall 'beast' theme.

The Beast Masters transform from beast to weapon and have a 5mm plug so as to be held by larger figures. They continue the Titan Masters price point from Titans Return. In addition to this, Break and Stampy from the Legends size also have a 'weapon' mode.

That was fun.

[UltimateGalvatron]

But why are Piranacon and Monstructor Legends class limbs? I'm pretty sure despite differences in toy sizes they are roughly the same size as the other Combiners.

[Verno]

But why are Piranacon and Monstructor Legends class limbs? I'm pretty sure despite differences in toy sizes they are roughly the same size as the other Combiners.
Just to mix it up a bit.

A lot of the alt-modes for Monstructor and Abominus are... a little nondescript, so instead of putting them in the Deluxe class, which is highest selling price point (or so I'm told), you put them in the Legends. They have a gimmick of combination, so there's still a reason to buy them, but ogres and monsters aren't really what kids would be expecting from TF toys.

[UltimateGalvatron]

Just to mix it up a bit.

A lot of the alt-modes for Monstructor and Abominus are... a little nondescript, so instead of putting them in the Deluxe class, which is highest selling price point (or so I'm told), you put them in the Legends. They have a gimmick of combination, so there's still a reason to buy them, but ogres and monsters aren't really what kids would be expecting from TF toys.

Fair enough. I think I'd still make Piranacon normal CW size but I take your point with Monstructor.

[Verno]

Fair enough. I think I'd still make Piranacon normal CW size but I take your point with Monstructor.
All the G1 combiners deserve to follow the same method as CW (4D, 1V), but I was trying to cram in as much as I could.

Reading similar topics on other boards, some people have reservations about beasts because there's no one unifying gimmick. So instead, I put two in! :p They're not unifying per se, but everyone can wield one of the beastly Targetmaster-like partners.

[Verno]

http://orig02.deviantart.net/1f45/f/2016/286/0/e/untitled_by_rh1n0x-dakxmlx.jpg

Masters:

Do you remember the Waspinator Targetmaster-like figure that came with Generations Legends Starscream?



http://toys.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/944375_474432292626970_510534059_n_1367872472_1367 877482.png

The idea is continued with more Beast Wars characters which are later redecoed into the G1 Action Master partners.

Legends:

Finish off the G1 Insecticons.

Three slightly larger Targetmaster figures in Stampy, Break and Icepick.
The entire run of beastly G1 cassettes get a reimagining.


Deluxes:

Combiner Limbs for Abominus and Monstructor
The three Pretender Beasts

Beast Wars updates (some retools from the Pretender Beasts)


Voyagers:

Combiner Torsos for Abominus and Monstructor
The G1 Dinobots
Beast Wars Dinobot


Leaders:

Optimus Prime based on his Machine Wars body, plus subsequent Thunder Clash redeco.
Megatron based on his cancelled G2 Dreadwing Stealth Bomber body, plus a Dreadwing redeco.


Box Sets:

So as not to fill the waves with combiner limbs all of the same colour, Predaking and Piranacon come in sets like Victorion in Combiner Wars.


Titans:

Self-explanatory.


That'll do for now.

[BigTransformerTrev]

I think what Hasbro has been striving for with the first two parts has been interactivity between toys and that theme will continue for the third installment.

With the Combiner Wars toys, there have been so many torso characters and dozens of limb characters that there are literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of different configurations you can make.

With Titans Return the Titan Master partners have achieved much of a similar thing. You can have Hardhead in tank mode with the Titan Master figures from a slew of different characters riding him, Optimus in Base mode with a bunch of different Titan Masters manning guns or walking on ramps,


So I was right on that point, since they just seem to be bringing Combiner Wars and Titan Master sized bots back :rolleyes:




So yeah, I think the third installment will go along the same lines. It wont be Beast Wars and I highly doubt it will be Pretenders or Action Masters either.

And here I was totally wrong :o

[BigTransformerTrev]

So yeah, I think the third installment will go along the same lines. It wont be Beast Wars and I highly doubt it will be Pretenders or Action Masters either. Certainly not Minicons as RID(15) has that covered. I don't reckon Targetmaster either. It could possibly be Micromasters, since you can swap around the front and backs of vehicles to make new ones and they can interact with bases which can hook up. There is a lot of variety and interactivity between toys to be had. But for some reason I don't see it happening. We may see something brand new, or a variation on an old gimick we had not thought of (like the Headmasters riding in guns and having their own little vehicles). Guess we will just have to see :)

Nope, they didn't make it into the Prime Wars Trilogy, they ended up in the first outing of the War For Cybertron Trilogy . :p

I wonder what we have left from G1 for them to trot out now? We've had Combiners, Pretenders & Micromasters. We've had Headmasters (Titan Masters) and are getting Targetmasters (Weaponizers). You could argue that the little POTP Prime figures were sorta like Powermasters as in they turned into a cube that powered up thier host but its a bit of a stretch.

Are we getting to the point where it's only Action Masters left, and would Hasbro be foolish enough to try? Otherwise the only thing I can think of would be Breastmasters from the JP G1 continutity.

[Tranceblade]

Are we getting to the point where it's only Action Masters left, and would Hasbro be foolish enough to try? Otherwise the only thing I can think of would be Breastmasters from the JP G1 continutity.

Brainmasters? Evolution Leader Star Saber, Voyager Victory Leo, Deluxe Road Ceasar combining bots... I can only dream.

[GoktimusPrime]

I wouldn't mind if they did CHUG Action Masters, but WITH alt modes! I'd loooove to see an Action Master Treadshot! :D Although... yeah, legal reasons would prevent him from being a revolver pistol. But still! And we have had the likes of Krok, although he was a retool of Skullsmasher and didn't transform into a spaceship. And whatever the hell Banzaitron's meant to transform into!

[KELPIE]

Less so gimmicks and more characters, we still need to see the Autobot Targetmasters and Powermasters, Slapdash, Doubledealer, Joyride.

The triggerbots/cons sparkabots, remaining firecons, Seacons among others.

That said, I'm one of those people that feel there doesn't need to be a line wide gimmick, so I understand I could be in the minority here.

As for actionmasters, I'd love some more of the actionmaster only characters to get figures. I'd take them as actionmasters or as retools/repaints. Mainframe, Rad, Kick-off, Jackpot, Skyfall, Sprocket, Treadshot, Krok, Banzaitron, Axer and Gutcruncher... yes please!

You know, speaking of actionmasters, I'm surprised Super7 haven't released a series of actionmasters with their Reaction line?

[GoktimusPrime]

That said, I'm one of those people that feel there doesn't need to be a line wide gimmick, so I understand I could be in the minority here.
I agree. Although I don't mind it when the gimmick canonically makes sense. Most Combiner Wars Transformers combined, but most of the combinable CW TFs are based on characters who were gestalt members in G1 -- Aerialbots, Protectobots, Constructicons, Stunticons, Combaticons, Breast Force etc. And sure, we did have G1 characters reimagined as gestalts, but they were shared-moulds or redecoes of the aforementioned canonically established gestalts. I personally never bothered with toys like CW Sunstreaker, Hound, Trailbreaker etc., but none of them were new/unique moulds and I'm fine with repaints fleshing out the line as it helps the line and there are obviously people who like these sort of repaints anyway (particularly those who skipped the previous CHUG versions of these characters) -- so it's a win-win for everyone.

Titans Return on the other hand went too far in making almost every 'bot and his dog a Headmaster - and these were new moulds. I really like TR Topspin, he was one of my favourite toys of 2017, but did he really need to be a Headmaster? (Answer: no) Happy to have the Monsterbots, but again, the Headmaster gimmick is pretty superfluous on them. I personally like the Headmaster gimmick, but I feel that they went overboard. When everyone's super then no-one will be. For classic Headmaster characters, I love that they made them Headmasters again. Because it means that when I got TR Mindwipe, I didn't just get a CHUG Mindwipe, I got Vorath as well. The thing that disappoints me about Generations Nightbeat is that he's not a Headmaster. There is no CHUG Muzzle. But this is because G1 bothered to build the Nebulans as individual characters that we grew up knowing about - we are familiar with the likes of Aimless, Blowpipe, Monzo, Arcana, Gort, Duros etc. Who the hell is Daburu? Can anyone give me a basic run down on Freezeout's character profile? :confused: That's the thing... I just don't know any of the new Titan Masters as people. I can't care about them. They're essentially little more than detachable accessories, much like the Energon figures on the G1 Motorvators.

With POTP I found that, for the most part, the combining gimmick was less intrusive than the Headmaster gimmick. The Headmaster gimmick is impossible to ignore. When I transform Topspin I have to use the gimmick. It's impossible otherwise. But with POTP I can choose to ignore te combining gimmick. I have never combined my POTP Dinobots -- I don't even own POTP Grimlock, but I've never even transformed the Deluxes into limb modes to attach to another torso-bot. And that's fine by me, I find that the Dinobots are all great toys regardless of the combining gimmick. And if you enjoy the combining gimmick, then that's great too. Again, it's a win-win for all. Okay, Elita-1 is pretty bulky and she's a jet now, but I'm fine with that. She's still a nice toy (and I never got Starscream so to me it's a new mould). Again, neeeeever bothered combining her with anyone. My Moonracer and Novastar have similarly never combined -- and the latter two are probably the most gimmick-compromised POTP toys that I own, but for the most part they're pretty neat toys where I can either take or leave the combining gimmick. :) Sure, Moonracer/Novastar are back-heavy in robot mode and have silly looking space-limousine modes, but again, I can ignore the combining gimmick. I can play with both toys and happily transform them between robot and limo modes without needing to ever touch the combining gimmick. Those silly hands just rest in my accessory storage and are never used. But I can't shove an unwanted Titan Master's head into storage! Gah!

Yeah, I know that this probably brings up the inherent stupidity of the Headmaster gimmick itself, but at least with characters based on G1 Headmasters I have the benefit of childhood nostalgia to generate appeal. Whereas with Neo Headmasters there's just nothing to make me want to care about... uh, you know... that dude that forms the head of Repugnus. Or, uh... that chick who forms the head of Quake. Is that girl? I don't even know who any of them are. :( Bring on Titan Master Hosehead with Lug! LUG!!!!!

[SharkyMcShark]

snip

I actually found the Titan Master gimmick less intrusive from a design perspective than the Combiner Wars gimmick. A lot of the Combiner Wars figures felt incredibly generic and overly simple because of the fact that they all needed to be a robot, vehicle, arm and leg, and the limbs had to be the same size across the line so they could be swapped around.

The Aerialbots were a wash because of this - three of the limbs were essentially the same figure (all four, if you're counting the UW release). Same goes with the Stunticons. I will concede that the Protectobots and Combaticons were at least insulated from this because of the variety of alt modes making up the team.

I'm with the rest of the posters in the thread who prefer lines without overarching gimmicks. If there is to be some unifying theme let it be something like Animated (dynamic head reveals for the transformations, and a line wide theme of Autobots using melee weapons only), or Studio Series with it's line wide consistent scale.

[GoktimusPrime]

The Aerialbots were a wash because of this - three of the limbs were essentially the same figure (all four, if you're counting the UW release). Same goes with the Stunticons. I will concede that the Protectobots and Combaticons were at least insulated from this because of the variety of alt modes making up the team.
These are all issues that they've inherited - for better or worse - from their G1 counterparts.
https://i.ibb.co/QD4C2zc/compar-superion.jpg
And fans go nutters when the toys aren't G1 enough for them. Just as Combiner Wars Blast Off and Groove. ;)

I think the main drawback of having an overarching gimmick is that it starves the line of diversity.
https://i.ibb.co/nkGpsM5/diversity-1987-v-TR.jpg
Correction: the pink slice in the 1987 pie chart is meant to represent "gestalts"
Lines like TR had even less diversity than 1990 where 64% of TFs on shelves were Action Masters and 36% were Micromasters (I'm counting sets, not individual 'bots). 1990 in Japan probably had the lowest amount of diversity in Transformers since every toy released in that year with the sole exception of Metro Titan were Micromasters.

Having said that, TR obviously wasn't the only Transformers line released in mid-2016 to the end of 2017 - we also had Bayformers, Rescue Bots, MPs, RID, Rescue Bots etc. This is quite different from 20th Century TF lines where there would typically only be just one overarching line. Like sure, 1987 G1 had greater diversity than TR, but it was also all we had. But yeah, as far as diversity within Generations itself, these overarching gimmicky sublines can arguably reduce line diversity. Or improve line dedication/focus depending on how you look at it - but I'm guessing that more fans prefer diversity (which is totally understandable; a lack of diversity just makes things rather bland)

[Lint]

I actually found the Titan Master gimmick less intrusive from a design perspective

Agreed, I'd even go as far as to say that it liberated the designs. Without having a head in the way or a chest cavity to hide it in it opened up a lot of different transformation possibilities.

As for speculation I am still waiting for real pretenders :p

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah... sorta. Although removing parts instead of concealing them kinda feels cheap and less satisfying. Take having retractable fists vs just removable fists like on so many G1 toys. I like toys with self-contained parts.

And ultimately the Titan Masters' heads are still stored in alt mode as the pilots. And this also brings something else that may be considered intrusive from a design POV - having to accommodate a cockpit for the pilot. Granted they've done a pretty good job, and I really love how a lot of these cockpit cavities collapse in robot mode instead of just being a hollow block like we had in G1 :) And I love how some of the Legends Class figures do this too, e.g. Wheelie, Bumblebee etc. TR Galvatron is an example of a toy that really didn't need to be a Headmaster and, IMO, suffers as a result of it. And I know that it's because the toy wasn't conceived as a Headmaster. I think it would've been a better toy if they kept to the original intention of having the head flip inside the chest instead of being a Headmaster. And that's the thing, if they weren't Headmasters and therefore didn't need to have a cockpit, they just as easily use that space to conceal the non-removable head. Head concealment isn't really an issue for most Transformers. Not since the days of Energon Ironhide anyway (and yeah, some other later exceptions like the first two Bayformers Megatrons etc.).

But I suppose making Titan Masters is one capital idea to stay ahead of the game. Who knows what's necks for Generations. :p :p :p

[Dan]

Are we getting to the point where it's only Action Masters left, and would Hasbro be foolish enough to try?

Personally, I think they've tried many times in recent years, simply by issuing non-transforming Transformers across various lines. I'm not sure it's foolish, although I suspect it's fooled quite a few parents who thought they'd bought something that was more than meets the eye. ;)

But back on topic, I think it would be interesting to see original Action Master characters made as modern Transformers with their never-seen alt-modes finally revealed.

I would be prepared to buy authorized non-transforming toys of things like Lithons, Quintessons, Trans-Organics etc. I'm sure that's a pipe dream. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm sure many kids today will be impressed with Mainframe's alt mode. ;)

[KELPIE]

I agree.<snip>
I agree with your expanded view of agreeing with me.



The Aerialbots were a wash because of this - three of the limbs were essentially the same figure (all four, if you're counting the UW release). Same goes with the Stunticons. I will concede that the Protectobots and Combaticons were at least insulated from this because of the variety of alt modes making up the team.
I have no issues with the Aerialbots. I love them in fact. Even happy with Darkwing and Dreadwind. Also upset I didn't get Windsweeper.

I thought they did an amazing job of reusing the mould to get mostly unique looking bots pumped out.

I guess I don't care how something transforms, just that it looks good in both modes, so maybe that shortens your mileage on the figures?

Would it be better if they were all unique, sure. but apart from a different looking knee or chest plate, they are all going to need 4 limbs and turn into a jet. That said, it's funny, I was more upset with the reuse of Trigger happy for Missfire and Slugslinger... go figure. Maybe that's the G1 acceptance in me coming out for the Aerialbots in addition to thinking I'd never get a Darkwing/Dreadwind figure.


I'm sure many kids today will be impressed with Mainframe's alt mode. ;)
Who wouldn't be impressed. Wait, you saying he doesn't turn into a rocket car?

Fun fact about me: I always thought/pretended that Mainframe built and programmed Teletraan 1

[SharkyMcShark]

snip


snip

It is a fair point that the Aerialbots being samey was G1 accurate. I guess at the end of the day that doesn't really do anything for me, so it doesn't counterbalance being left with what I maintain are otherwise quite mundane figures.