Govt will block overseas site not collecting gst

[G1Optimal]

:eek::eek:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/09/the-australian-government-will-block-online-stores-not-collecting-gst/

[SMHFConvoy]

This will be interesting

1. Because big Australian retailers are a shower of lazy b*st*rds
2. The Australian people have no problem flouting the law e.g. illegal torrents, streaming and downloading of media

[Handsprime]

I've read that these laws are very similar to Mike Baird's Lockout Laws.

[DELTAprime]

VPN.

[CoRDS]

this looks like its one of their "lets throw this stupid idea out to the public and see if they get pissed off. if the public hate it, change it until they're okish with it.

they do this all the time, if we kick up enough stink they'll change it.

i sure hope they change it because this is just plain stupid.
our tax laws should no go beyond our borders.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Good luck stopping me, gubmint.

[Megatran]

I didn't get past the pic.....

There should be a $150M plebiscite on this issue.

[kovert]

Has anyone spoken to their local Federal MP about their concerns?

[CBratron]

Good luck enforcing it.

[DaptoDog]

That wacky Sco Mo is at it again.

[MayzaPrime]

It has already been proven that this tax will cost more to implement and enforce than the revenue that it will raise, hence why tax didnt apply to items under $1000. Like most people have said good luck enforcing this, they cant stop torrents or people using VPNs to circumvent geo-blocking.

[1AZRAEL1]

I doubt this will ever come to fruition

[GoktimusPrime]

I hope not. Otherwise our internet is set to become even more restricted than in China! :eek:

[tron07]

some smart mp is out to block the internet...

http://i.imgur.com/xfFw1au.jpg

[Bladestorm]

Why do the Australian government always have to do things the hard way and fob the tax collection off onto foreign businesses?

How hard is it for them to set up a system at the border like the UK has where items coming in over a certain value, etc are held until GST due is paid, then the item is released for delivery.

I don't see why overseas companies should have to manage the collection of a tax not applicable to their business outside Australia. I can see a lot of overseas websites deciding to remove Australia from the list of countries they ship to because who wants that kind of headache?

[DaptoDog]

Why do the Australian government always have to do things the hard way and fob the tax collection off onto foreign businesses?

How hard is it for them to set up a system at the border like the UK has where items coming in over a certain value, etc are held until GST due is paid, then the item is released for delivery.

I don't see why overseas companies should have to manage the collection of a tax not applicable to their business outside Australia. I can see a lot of overseas websites deciding to remove Australia from the list of countries they ship to because who wants that kind of headache?

This is all about pushing the costs of compliance onto the international retailers because they know the cost of collecting the GST on low value items far outweighs whatever extra GST they will collect.

To your last point, if some international retailers decide it's all too hard to sell to Australians they will block us, thus forcing consumers to buy local. This serves the interests of the domestic retailers that have been lobbying the government for years to abolish the current $1,000 threshold.

[SharkyMcShark]

Why do the Australian government always have to do things the hard way and fob the tax collection off onto foreign businesses?

How hard is it for them to set up a system at the border like the UK has where items coming in over a certain value, etc are held until GST due is paid, then the item is released for delivery.

I don't see why overseas companies should have to manage the collection of a tax not applicable to their business outside Australia. I can see a lot of overseas websites deciding to remove Australia from the list of countries they ship to because who wants that kind of headache?

Theoretically this is how the system is meant to work. 10% of the value of whatever you're importing if its value is >$1000

That said, my own first hand knowledge of importing things over that value (limited mainly to Star Wars prop replicas) has had it not be enforced at all.

Theoretically they're meant to go off the declared/insured value of whatever is being sent. In practise I'm not sure how much anyone cares.

It sounds annoying, and I can see a lot of businesses just not bothering to send stuff to Aus. Further, how will it work with remailers? Who becomes liable there?

[1AZRAEL1]

To your last point, if some international retailers decide it's all too hard to sell to Australians they will block us, thus forcing consumers to buy local. This serves the interests of the domestic retailers that have been lobbying the government for years to abolish the current $1,000 threshold.

When alot of figures I buy are not released here, domestic retailers get bupkis anyway. And I know alot of people are in the same boat

[UltraMarginal]

How hard is it for them to set up a system at the border like the UK has where items coming in over a certain value, etc are held until GST due is paid, then the item is released for delivery.

I don't see why overseas companies should have to manage the collection of a tax not applicable to their business outside Australia. I can see a lot of overseas websites deciding to remove Australia from the list of countries they ship to because who wants that kind of headache?

like it was mentioned, that is the existing system for shipments valued at over $1000, which I do know of people who have copped that. It's not just GST either, it's also import duties .

your second paragraph I can see happening, if I was selling to an overseas country and they tried to force me to collect tax on their behalf I'd just block that country.

How will this work with eBay purchases??

[1AZRAEL1]

Can o worms trying to figure it all out

[Raider]

When alot of figures I buy are not released here, domestic retailers get bupkis anyway. And I know alot of people are in the same boat

This is one of the main points for us collectors. We buy from overseas because there is no supply in the country. If this means that foreign companies stop selling to Australia then the people that miss out are us consumers...

Seems like a regressive tax aimed at a protectionist, anti-globalisation outcome.

[Bladestorm]

Most of what we as collectors would import are things not available in Oz.
When you can buy locally you will buy locally if you can (and you aren't being extorted) but that isn't always the case. So at the end of the day, the group losing out are always going to be the consumers because not only will it be more difficult to get stuff but I can see those international businesses who do offer their service to deliver to Oz adding extra costs on to cover the time and inconvenience (on top of the GST collection).

How will the govt get their collected GST from overseas? What's to stop a retailer pocketing the money instead of sending it to the Oz govt. Will the consumers parcel then be stopped because of this? It isn't as if the Oz govt can hunt down retailers overseas and force them to pay... can they?
It seems to me it won't be a workable solution in the long (or short) term. How does this method work out cheaper than having someone sitting at the border processing the parcels? What's a few more Oz Post or customs workers in the scheme of things?

And... how will it work on private parcels?

What happens in this scenario:
Say one of you ask me to buy an MP-10 and ship it from here in HK to you. Do *I*as an individual then have to somehow add/collect GST and figure out how to send those funds to the Oz government? Exchange rates/transfer rates and time wasted would make it almost unpalatable.
If I just write gift does that then mean the GST doesn't have to be paid and you can skip the process?

I don't expect answers by the way... these are just some of the questions and concerns I have about how they can ever possibly make this system work.

[Raider]

How will the govt get their collected GST from overseas? What's to stop a retailer pocketing the money instead of sending it to the Oz govt. Will the consumers parcel then be stopped because of this? It isn't as if the Oz govt can hunt down retailers overseas and force them to pay... can they?


I would assume that they will rely upon Double Taxation Agreements to enforce it. This will mean that they work with the country where the retailer is based and it gets factored into their returns over there.

[MV75]

Well we already have this to contend with: https://www.commbank.com.au/support/faqs/410.html?ei=gsa_support_Foreign-transaction-fees

Now, forcing tax collection from overseas retailers is actually not legal as they are not an Australian business with an ABN. That is the first, and in this case the actual last step.

Plus Foreign business does not lodge returns and do BAS. How are they to claim gst credits for gst collected? They can't as they don't even pay gst themselves in their own countries, and if they do, their country and ours are hardly going to be transferring gst credits with each other. How are they even going to submit gst collected when they don't even do an Australian return? Hell, do they even do 75000$ in turnover to begin with?

Being non residents for tax purposes, they owe us no tax at all anyway.

This is why they need to be collecting the tax upon importation and can't fob it to the retailer.

[1AZRAEL1]

Too much effort for them to try collect when they get here. It's been put in the "too hard" basket and have had the genius idea to go this route

[GoktimusPrime]

I wonder if someone is importing a toy that's not available here and they try to block it, would there be a case for unfair trade restriction? Because - to my knowledge - that's why DVD manufacturers cannot deny consumers the access codes to unlock the region on DVD players upon request. Because there are many film and TV titles which are never released here, and I've heard that if a DVD manufacturer in Australia refuses to supply instructions on how to unlock the region code on a player then the consumer may have just cause to file complaint with the ACCC. That's what a mate of mine told me when DVD players first came out, and every time I've asked either a store or the manufacturer for the code to unlock a player they have always given it to me (except for Sony because the region coding is hardwired).

And what if you get a friend overseas to buy for you and declare it as a gift?
Would this affect Australian based dealers like PC?

[MV75]

And what if you get a friend overseas to buy for you and declare it as a gift?
Would this affect Australian based dealers like PC?

Still a gift.

In what way?

[kup]

I bet you they are doing on the request of some backward ass lobbying body.

[Raider]

Well we already have this to contend with: https://www.commbank.com.au/support/faqs/410.html?ei=gsa_support_Foreign-transaction-fees

Now, forcing tax collection from overseas retailers is actually not legal as they are not an Australian business with an ABN. That is the first, and in this case the actual last step.

Plus Foreign business does not lodge returns and do BAS. How are they to claim gst credits for gst collected? They can't as they don't even pay gst themselves in their own countries, and if they do, their country and ours are hardly going to be transferring gst credits with each other. How are they even going to submit gst collected when they don't even do an Australian return? Hell, do they even do 75000$ in turnover to begin with?

Being non residents for tax purposes, they owe us no tax at all anyway.

This is why they need to be collecting the tax upon importation and can't fob it to the retailer.

I believe it will only apply if they receive Australian source income over the $75k threshold.

The argument is that a lot of the larger companies that provide goods to Australia will voluntarily register and comply. I guess they probably only care about the major ones and not the small ones.

I tend to think for us collectors that there will continue to be no GST charged on most the sites we use, the main reason being that the ATO has no way to compel a foreign corporation to remit the tax, they hold no jurisdiction in the foreign country. If the legislation provides a back-up taxing point at Customs then that is entirely another problem.

[MV75]

I believe it will only apply if they receive Australian source income over the $75k threshold.

The argument is that a lot of the larger companies that provide goods to Australia will voluntarily register and comply. I guess they probably only care about the major ones and not the small ones.

I tend to think for us collectors that there will continue to be no GST charged on most the sites we use, the main reason being that the ATO has no way to compel a foreign corporation to remit the tax, they hold no jurisdiction in the foreign country. If the legislation provides a back-up taxing point at Customs then that is entirely another problem.

Exactly. Australian based, they need an abn. Good luck giving all of those chinese ebay shops an abn so they can register for gst collection. :) As I already said, the first step to registering for gst collection is to have an abn. :)

But they've made up new laws before and post dated them.

Plus it's no business of the ato to know the turnover of any business outside of Australia anyway, they aren't lodging tax returns here. Even business that do have an office here, only those sales are taxed and reportable, the foreign office that sells here isn't because it's not Australian. Example is Hobbyking. I do like to buy the local shop because I get stuff faster. The gst is a non issue, which they seem to think it is on why people buy overseas.

[BigTransformerTrev]

If it came through it would stuff most of us that live in the bush. Not only are a lot of TFs not sold in this county but a helluva lot that are don't appear in a 500km radius of remote rural areas. And Aussie divisions of companies like TRU, Myer and the like actually charge MORE to ship goods domestically then foreign companies to ship internationally.

Case in point, it was going to cost more in postage to me to have TRU ship CW Computron from Melb that HLJ were charging to ship me UW Computron from Japan! :eek: it's why I just left it and hoped to find one on a shelf on my yearly trip to the big city (which luckily I did)

[G1Optimal]

More news on the gst on foreign goods for the 1st of july this year
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/companies/ebay-could-shut-down-or-reduce-sales-in-australia-if-gst-is-applied-to-importers/news-story/e0bb7a3aebbfcf9cdb70976a1eb14a2c

[1AZRAEL1]

If I didn't have to sign up to read it, I would

[Trent]

If I didn't have to sign up to read it, I would

Here you go ;)


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/companies/ebay-could-shut-down-or-reduce-sales-in-australia-if-gst-is-applied-to-importers/news-story/e0bb7a3aebbfcf9cdb70976a1eb14a2c

Lol at Gerry Harvey. He's really got all our best interests at heart :rolleyes:

[SMHFConvoy]

Here you go ;)


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/companies/ebay-could-shut-down-or-reduce-sales-in-australia-if-gst-is-applied-to-importers/news-story/e0bb7a3aebbfcf9cdb70976a1eb14a2c

Lol at Gerry Harvey. He's really got all our best interests at heart :rolleyes:

Still behind the pay wall. Yeah, Gerry's crapping himself with Amazon looking to open in Australia in September.

[1AZRAEL1]

Here you go ;)


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/companies/ebay-could-shut-down-or-reduce-sales-in-australia-if-gst-is-applied-to-importers/news-story/e0bb7a3aebbfcf9cdb70976a1eb14a2c

Lol at Gerry Harvey. He's really got all our best interests at heart :rolleyes:

Still premium articles. Hate payng for news lol

[Trent]

Still behind the pay wall. Yeah, Gerry's crapping himself with Amazon looking to open in Australia in September.


Still premium articles. Hate payng for news lol

I just found it by searching google for "herald sun gst". Worked for me.

But yeah, I've got one major purchase to make and get into the country before this comes in. Don't want to risk getting slapped another $60 on top of what it will cost me.

[1AZRAEL1]

Ah yes, searching google brings up the article. Wonder if that is a way around the blasted premium articles all the time.

Anyway, Gerry is a money hungry (can't say what I want but you know). They fail to see that alot of what is purchased online is items we can't buy locally. Can keep going around in circles with this discussion.

[DarkHyren]

Update: Looks like eBay is probably going to geoblock all Aussie buyers and stop them from buying from non-Aussie sellers.
Way to cut us off from the rest of the world AU government, this wont be the last online retailer that just refuses to sell to us rather then comply with this BS.

http://www.afr.com/news/ebay-may-geoblock-australian-customers-in-response-to-amazon-tax-20170412-gvj9pr

Not sure how this will affect postage forwarders but looks like the ones based in other countries will be making a lot more money soon enough

[G1Optimal]

Update: Looks like eBay is probably going to geoblock all Aussie buyers and stop them from buying from non-Aussie sellers.
Way to cut us off from the rest of the world AU government, this wont be the last online retailer that just refuses to sell to us rather then comply with this BS.

http://www.afr.com/news/ebay-may-geoblock-australian-customers-in-response-to-amazon-tax-20170412-gvj9pr

Not sure how this will affect postage forwarders but looks like the ones based in other countries will be making a lot more money soon enough

Cant read the link it is behind a paywall.:(

[DarkHyren]

Cant read the link it is behind a paywall.:(One second, I'll try to archive my link as well as the former one...

Cant seem to archive the AFR one but SMH did an article as well so I archived that.
"eBay threatens to block Australian shoppers over GST" April 18th, 2017 http://archive.is/IaXL1

Previous article "eBay could shut down or reduce sales in Australia if GST is applied to importers" March 24th, 2017 http://archive.is/kg4Fb

[PROVOST]

http://www.afr.com/news/ebay-may-geoblock-australian-customers-in-response-to-amazon-tax-20170412-gvj9pr

Gerry Harvey of Harvey Norman is one of the longest proponents of this idea.

Now unlike in 2009 where this proposal was dropped (cause it was reviewed and the report then stated that enforcement costs would outweigh revenues)

It is ridiculous to think that you could not buy a $50 USD toy from an O/S eBay seller cause of a GST policy/law here in AUS.

[DarkHyren]

Yep, it's disgusting to think that all this is because of some old dinosaur that would rather force this country into isolation then consider lowering his stores prices to something near reasonable. The pathetic thing is he doesn't realize that people STILL wont shop at Hardly Normal when we have other local alternatives like JB Hi-Fi or The Good Guys who undercut him as well. All Gerry is doing is increasing peoples loathing for his brand, if that's possible

[kup]

Yep, it's disgusting to think that all this is because of some old dinosaur that would rather force this country into isolation then consider lowering his stores prices to something near reasonable. The pathetic thing is he doesn't realize that people STILL wont shop at Hardly Normal when we have other local alternatives like JB Hi-Fi or The Good Guys who undercut him as well. All Gerry is doing is increasing peoples loathing for his brand, if that's possible

Sadly there are more old people in this country than any other demographic and they are creatures of habit and a very narrow scope. They have been spending 300%+ on items for 40 years at Harvey Norman and they will continue doing so keeping the old dinosaur from extinction and still influential. The problem that he has is that as a modern corporate body, they need to grow their business and he is having difficulty doing so given his sizeable but still limited customer base.

Foxtel are very similar too, almost every old person I know (60+) has a $120+ monthly subscription to them because they don't know any better.

[Bladestorm]

I can't read either of those recently linked articles as they are blocked for me but I have a question or 3.

How does it affect individuals sending stuff to OZ?

Say I wanted to send our beloved Trev a box of Transformers goodness from here in Hong Kong and he paid me for it. Would that be taxed as a transaction or would it be let through?

If individuals send a "gift" from overseas does that still incur the GST?

[kup]

I can't read either of those recently linked articles as they are blocked for me but I have a question or 3.

How does it affect individuals sending stuff to OZ?

Say I wanted to send our beloved Trev a box of Transformers goodness from here in Hong Kong and he paid me for it. Would that be taxed as a transaction or would it be let through?

If individuals send a "gift" from overseas does that still incur the GST?

It would only be taxed if above $1000 in value. This is for online transactions such as stores.

[CBratron]

Remember when the stuffed shirts suggested lowering the GST-free threshold on posted items? This sounds like more of the same.

[tron07]

Just VPN around the blockage... good luck blocking the internet

[DELTAprime]

Remember when the stuffed shirts suggested lowering the GST-free threshold on posted items? This sounds like more of the same.


Just VPN around the blockage... good luck blocking the internet

Agreed.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Say I wanted to send our beloved Trev a box of Transformers goodness from here in Hong Kong and he paid me for it. Would that be taxed as a transaction or would it be let through?

Thanks, today has been a really bad day and I needed to read something like that :)

[DarkHyren]

Just VPN around the blockage... good luck blocking the internetYou may not think it's possible but it wouldnt be the first time our government blocked websites because a big company told them to. If enough people use VPNs and web proxies to get around this I'm sure old Gerry will see them blocked too.

Government to censor the Internet: http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=6388&page=56

[DELTAprime]

You may not think it's possible but it wouldnt be the first time our government blocked websites because a big company told them to. If enough people use VPNs and web proxies to get around this I'm sure old Gerry will see them blocked too.

Government to censor the Internet: http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=6388&page=56

The Pirate Bay and other torrent sites are illegal, under international treaties as well as Australian copyright law they are well within their right to block copyright infringement.

But VPN's are essential for business and government to run, to use public WiFi securely, to prevent foreign governments from spying, etc. Blocking VPN's would be like shutting down the phone networks because a criminal used a phone to commit fraud. You can't do it because the vast majority of traffic is 100% legal and essential.

Besides everyone is jumping to the conclusion they will force web sites to collect GST. A much more reasonable method to implement is something along the lines of what the US does. In most states in America you are required to pay sales tax on everything you buy. How does the government collect that? Not by forcing out-of-state and foreign sites to collect tax but rather by making the resident pay up on their yearly tax return. You can do what most people do and just say you owe zero tax, or you can declare what you actually owe because if you get audited and they find you didn't pay up, well that's a crime.

[DarkHyren]

The Pirate Bay and other torrent sites are illegal, under international treaties as well as Australian copyright law they are well within their right to block copyright infringementActually that is incorrect, torrent sites themselves are not illegal, it's the content some users choose to upload and share that is. The only thing that the torrent sites do that could be called illegal is not removing content if they get a cease and desist notice.
But on the flip side plenty of torrent sites including TPB also have torrents of content that is free to use and distribute in any means people see fit, for example linux distributions are also hosted on those sites and those are not only freely distributed but encouraged to be distributed in such manners.
So in essence the government blocking any torrent site rather then just blocking the "illegal" pages/users could be said to be the same as blocking the phone network because a criminal used it to commit a crime as they are punishing even those that use torrent sites for legal content for the actions of those that use them for illegal content.
So if it came down to it I can very well see the government blocking the use of VPNs for all but those on business plans with an ISP and claiming "if you are on a residential plan you have no need to use a VPN for anything".

On the tax matter we can only wait and see, the government could very well choose to enforce taxes on the Australian branches of companies like eBay and Amazon for overseas purchases made using their platform which is why they want to geoblock, to stop Aussie users buying from overseas so that the government cant chase the AU branches for money.
It will obviously have less of an affect on companies that dont have an AU branch as no, the government cant collect taxes from companies that dont trade in Australia or have an ABN.
It's all a matter of wait and see though, but I for one don't welcome this scam

[Raider]

This whole thing is nothing more than an attempt to pull in extra revenue on what the govt thinks is an untapped resource. Unfortunately the report prepared for the govt by KPMG (?) seems to assume a minimum of 65% compliance by offshore entities remitting GST which will result in $650M. Once you factor in collection costs they make a tidy profit. Big problem is assuming 65%. Like hell it will be that high. My guess would say 30% and then suddenly the whole thing is costing more to do than it raises.

I understand the protectionist idea behind it but I don't agree. People who shop online are those who tend to be younger and will look around for the best price. They aren't older folk who walk into a store and just buy no matter the price. Not to mention a large portion of the goods purchased online from oversees are not available in Australia!

By far this is one of the most idiotic ideas they have had. Just think of all the money being wasted on this dumb idea already. No doubt Shorten will jump on the negative public sentiment and start opposing this shortly.

[Ploughmans Lunch]

Labor in principle support this but are asking for a stay of one year (so it'll go into effect on the 1st of July 2018 instead) so that more work can be done to assess if this is even worth doing.

Let's see!

[kup]

By far this is one of the most idiotic ideas they have had. Just think of all the money being wasted on this dumb idea already. No doubt Shorten will jump on the negative public sentiment and start opposing this shortly.

And then after Shorten comes to power, he will try to implement his take on the same thing. Both parties are just as corrupt.

[DELTAprime]

I haven't heard anything about this in weeks. I take it the politicians wised up and have "forgotten" about it.

[griffin]

Federal budget comes out soon, so if it is going ahead, it will be in there, as it would look on paper as earning them big revenue (ignoring the cost of implementing it), and their focus in the last few months was going after international businesses avoiding tax, which was a popular policy... so I think that this would be flagged as being related just to try to get it through.

[DarkHyren]

I think that they are just keeping quiet about it to try and sneak it in.
So long as this page exists on the ATO website I'd say it's still full speed ahead
https://www.ato.gov.au/general/new-legislation/in-detail/indirect-taxes/gst/gst-on-low-value-imported-goods/

Also here's an article direct from Gerry Harvey and pals which is only a week old making unreasonable demands (but what else is new)
http://blog.retail.org.au/newsandinsights/ara-strongly-supports-new-legislation-for-gst-imports

[Raider]

An update for those not familiar with the process of enacting legislation:

On 23 March 2017, the Senate referred the provisions of the Treasury Laws Amendment (GST Low Value Goods) Bill 2017 to the Economics Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 9 May 2017.

Submissions closed on 10 April 2017.

9 May is Budget night so it will likely be announced then or just before. If anyone wants to read any of the 34 submissions on this then they can be found here (http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Economics/GSTLowValueGoods/Submissions).

You can also read the transcripts of the public hearing here (http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Economics/GSTLowValueGoods/Public_Hearings).

There was also this comment in the hearings that I found particular interesting and probably quite on point:

Mr Marar : In their submission, the Australian Retail Council conceded that retail has actually been growing quite a lot which contradicts, to some degree, the point that competition from online stores overseas is really a big problem. Retail stores within Australia have a number of advantages. The fact is they provide a sensory experience to the consumer which an online store cannot provide, their shipping and handling costs are usually a lot lower and their economies of scale are better for, say, a company like Harvey Norman, which is spread across the whole country and they have that sorted out. They certainly are motivated by their own interest, which is that they want to reduce their competition. I would also like to point out that a store like Harvey Norman is probably a lot better prepared to weather regulatory changes than a smaller store. For example, if an Australian store is trying to import stuff from overseas to onsell, they will be hit by this tax and they will less competitive than the big guys like Harvey Norman.

[Raider]

Ok so the report was tabled this evening and here is the summary:

1. Liberals support the passing of the Bill but recommend not to be implemented until 1 July 2018.
2. Labor supports the concept of taxing low value items in principle but does not support the Bill.
3. Xenophon has reserved his position pending further discussions with stakeholders.

At the very least it seems this won't come in for another year and may not get passed at all - well in its current form anyway.

[DELTAprime]

but recommend not to be implemented untl 1 July 2018.


The amount of people that think it's trivial for a company to implement a feature, put out a patch or whatever is ridiculous. A year to implement is the least the government should give.

[PROVOST]

Ok so the report was tabled this evening and here is the summary:

1. Liberals support the passing of the Bill but recommend not to be implemented until 1 July 2018.
2. Labor supports the concept of taxing low value items in principle but does not support the Bill.
3. Xenophon has reserved his position pending further discussions with stakeholders.

At the very least it seems this won't come in for another year and may not get passed at all - well in its current form anyway.

Excellent news :)

[BigTransformerTrev]

Ok so the report was tabled this evening and here is the summary:

1. Liberals support the passing of the Bill but recommend not to be implemented until 1 July 2018.
2. Labor supports the concept of taxing low value items in principle but does not support the Bill.
3. Xenophon has reserved his position pending further discussions with stakeholders.

At the very least it seems this won't come in for another year and may not get passed at all - well in its current form anyway.

Glad I didn't cancel my Tak/Tom Trypticon :D

[Raider]

For those interested the full report is here (http://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/Committees/economics_ctte/GSTlowvaluegoods/report.pdf?la=en).

[hYpNoS]

Ok so the report was tabled this evening and here is the summary:

1. Liberals support the passing of the Bill but recommend not to be implemented until 1 July 2018.
2. Labor supports the concept of taxing low value items in principle but does not support the Bill.
3. Xenophon has reserved his position pending further discussions with stakeholders.

At the very least it seems this won't come in for another year and may not get passed at all - well in its current form anyway.

*Claps and whistles*

Another whole year, better cram in what I can't get here before that happens!

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

"Online shoppers get 12-month GST reprieve"

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/tax/online-shoppers-get-12month-gst-reprieve-20170619-gwtwzg

[UltraMarginal]

"Online shoppers get 12-month GST reprieve"

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/tax/online-shoppers-get-12month-gst-reprieve-20170619-gwtwzg

I like the sound of the title but it won't let me see the article.

[kup]

I can't read the article either but it sounds terrible to me. It alludes that after 12 months, they will start charging GST on online purchases from overseas. Hope that is incorrect.

[tinyJazz]

I read a similar article on another site. Basically Liberal and Labor both want to charge gst on all overseas purchases, but decided it would be impossible to implement before next month, so they have another year to work that out.
Also, the increasingly irrelevant and tone deaf dinosaur Gerry Harvey had a sook about the delay, complaining that people like eBay now had more time to lobby against lowering the gst threshold and he wants the politicians to just ignore them. :rolleyes:

[1AZRAEL1]

Problem is politicians listen to that old dinosaur

[kup]

Lobbying should be illegal. It is basically legal bribery, why would the wealthy or corporations dictate national law and policy? To me is a huge conflict of interest and creates the horrid climate we are in.

[SMHFConvoy]

Lobbying should be illegal. It is basically legal bribery, why would the wealthy or corporations dictate national law and policy? To me is a huge conflict of interest and creates the horrid climate we are in.

There are not for profit lobbyists too.

Instead having a sook about it, write to your local federal parliament members and hound them for 12 months.

[Megatran]

There are not for profit lobbyists too.
ACOSS (Australian Council of Social Services). Cassandra Goldie (CEO of ACOSS) is someone I truly admire.

Sorry, back to the topic ...

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I like the sound of the title but it won't let me see the article.


Shoppers will get a 12-month reprieve from having to pay the GST on goods worth less than $1000 ordered from overseas as the Productivity Commission studies the best method for collecting the tax.

The Senate on Monday agreed to amend the Treasury Laws Amendment (GST Low Value Gods) Bill to delay its start date until July 1, 2018.

Until then, imports worth less than $1000 will not attract the 10 per cent GST, which will anger local retailers but please giants such as eBay, Alibaba and Etsy.

The amended bill still needs to be approved by the House of Representatives but both Labor and Liberal sources said that was highly likely in coming days.

"eBay welcomes the review by the Productivity Commission and looks forward to working with government and the industry on methods of implementation that drive revenue, help level the playing field for Australian businesses and maintain choice for shoppers," a company spokesman said.

The absence of GST on "low-value" goods imported into Australia been a long-running bugbear of local retailers.

Harvey Norman boss Gerry Harvey has been a vocal critic, claiming bricks-and-mortar stores are at a disadvantage.

Their woes are set to deepen as Amazon prepares to enter the Australian market.

But the government has also come under pressure from companies that will be affected by the new GST rules.

eBay, Alibaba, Etsy and Amazon have threatened to geoblock Australian customers.

"Regrettably, the government's legislation may force eBay to prevent Australians from buying from foreign sellers," eBay Australia and New Zealand vice-president Jooman Park wrote in the submission to a parliamentary inquiry into the proposed law.

"No tax would be paid to Australia and none would be owed. It would raise no revenue, deny Australians access to choice and lessen price competition."

The bill passed the Senate with 32 votes in favour and 16 against. A Greens amendment to exempt tampons from GST failed.

A Labor amendment delays commencement until 1 July 2018.

It also requires the PC to investigate different models for collecting the GST and how they affect small businesses in particular.

A report is due by the end of October.

Under the changes, online marketplaces and parcel forwarding services will be treated as the supplier and therefore liable for collecting GST.

"Electronic distribution platforms ebay, Alibaba and Etsy expressed disquiet that they will be liable for GST on goods which they have never owned, held, tracked or traded," the Senate Economics Legislation Committee said in a report following its inquiry.

"They liken it to a landlord or a shopping centre being liable for GST on goods sold by tenants. They believe that the system will be complex and costly to administer, and the costs will be passed on to consumers."

The new rules, which were due to generate an extra $300 million in revenue over four years, apply only to delivery of goods to consumers. Supplies to businesses are unaffected.

The change was announced in the 2016 budget, along with another "integrity" measure to collect GST on cross-border supplies of digital products and services.

This was dubbed the Netflix tax and has already cleared federal parliament. It will take effect from July 1 of this year. .

[UltraMarginal]

Thanks for that, like I said, it's what I was hoping, that the incoming tax, which I totally disagree with will be postponed until next year. it gives us (the Australian community) time to push for it to not be applied.

Like a lot of people here, most of the stuff I import isn't available in stores in Australia. plain and simple. And a 10% tax, while significant has nowhere near the effect on my online spending compared to the 30% drop in the value of the dollar that we've experienced in the last couple years.

[Raider]

Hmmm supplies to business are unaffected... perhaps I will just order everything through a company and reimburse it :p

[Sinnertwin]

Cock it. Looks like I'll be paying the extra 10% & I won't be going to HN either.

[SMHFConvoy]

Cock it. Looks like I'll be paying the extra 10% & I won't be going to HN either.

Jezza's just the face of it, there are other retailers backing this don't forget to boycott them too!

[Raider]

Jezza's just the face of it, there are other retailers backing this don't forget to boycott them too!

True but I don't really know who the others are and given that old man Gerry is the face of it, well no business for them from me or my company.

[Sinnertwin]

I need someone's head to look at when I stare down the scope, and his cabbage noggin will do just fine :p

[Autocon]

Wage growth in retail is one of the slowest. Profits are sky rocketing with no wage growth. I wonder if the retailers are getting more profit from us and not saying. Interesting to see a break down of profits in different sectors

[1AZRAEL1]

Someone needs to make a list of all the retailers who are in support of it, if there isn't one already. Will make it easier to know who not to shop with

[DELTAprime]

I got an email from 1password this morning saying they are going to start collecting GST as of the 1st of July because of the "Netflix Tax". I wonder how many services will actually start charging GST on the 1st?

[philby]

I got an email from 1password this morning saying they are going to start collecting GST as of the 1st of July because of the "Netflix Tax". I wonder how many services will actually start charging GST on the 1st?

Hang on...didn't someone say a few posts earlier that there will be a 12 months wait while they investigate options? So we aren't actually paying the GST yet?
Are companies going to just start charging the extra 10% just in case, or in a sly cynical attempt to squeeze a bit more out if they weren't already?? :eek:

[Raider]

Hang on...didn't someone say a few posts earlier that there will be a 12 months wait while they investigate options? So we aren't actually paying the GST yet?
Are companies going to just start charging the extra 10% just in case, or in a sly cynical attempt to squeeze a bit more out if they weren't already?? :eek:

There are two different implementations. The Netflix Tax is on services like Netflix. The gerry Harvey tax removes $1000 exemption on goods overseas being gst free.

[Raider]

Someone needs to make a list of all the retailers who are in support of it, if there isn't one already. Will make it easier to know who not to shop with

Almost impossible. The associations that supported this have thousands of members. Maybe a list of the most well known ones but it's not easy to find out. A lot of retailers let the associations they are Members of do all the submissions.

[1AZRAEL1]

Almost impossible. The associations that supported this have thousands of members. Maybe a list of the most well known ones but it's not easy to find out. A lot of retailers let the associations they are Members of do all the submissions.

With some research, some of the bigger ones could be listed. Wouldn't be easy to compile the list

[SMHFConvoy]

The Netflix tax was one of the last things brought in by the Abbott govt

[Raider]

With some research, some of the bigger ones could be listed. Wouldn't be easy to compile the list

I will go as far as listing some of the associations that actively support the implementation of the Bill:


Retail Council
Australian Sporting Goods Association
Australian Retailers Association
Shopping Centre Council of Australia

[King Atlas]

There is this stunning red ribbon-thin banner on twitch tv at the moment.

https://i.gyazo.com/bdf7d34f1bed4e4c607f24c0a72acb20.png

Funny story, the last time I saw this type of "Flashing Headline" was way back when tfw2005 got the very first pictures of Voyager Animated Blitzwing. I don't think it's been repeated since over there.

Every standard emote replaced by a classic loading circle (hover over it and it says "Save the internet!"

https://i.gyazo.com/a2af59e6143c6c887e2921f89056f921.png

[DELTAprime]

This is getting pretty close to being a thing we have to deal with. Is there any updates on how the GST is supposed to be collected? Will the retailer have to collect the GST or am I going to get a bill from the government like it works now for purchases over $1000?

[ComicGuy89]

This is getting pretty close to being a thing we have to deal with. Is there any updates on how the GST is supposed to be collected? Will the retailer have to collect the GST or am I going to get a bill from the government like it works now for purchases over $1000?

You will not have to worry about it. The implemented model targets only vendors, to be as hassle-free for Australian customers as much as possible. It will be the vendor's job to determine whether it will need to charge you GST, and just like with local sellers, if it makes the wrong determination, any GST liability will be its liability, not yours.

Purchases from overseas over $1,000 will still be subject to customs importation rules as before.

[bowspearer]

Someone needs to make a list of all the retailers who are in support of it, if there isn't one already. Will make it easier to know who not to shop with

Better yet - people need to boycott Harvey Norman and Domayne (owned by Harvey's wife) en masse.

[laproblematique]

Better yet - people need to boycott Harvey Norman and Domayne (owned by Harvey's wife) en masse.

Who actually does shop at these stores besides middle aged/ elderly people who have money (or credit) to burn or are uneducated shoppers?

A government backed by big business that forces people to pay GST on items that aren't severely marked down won't force people back to Australian brick and mortar, it will just make people more frugal with their spending causing these stores to go the way of the Dodo at a faster rate.

Ironic that actually taxing the big stores like Harvey Norman, Myer and the likes in the first place would have the same net effect.

Hard not to see another recession on the horizon.

[DELTAprime]

If I need to buy a whitegood or browngood I have little choice other than Harvey Norman. JB Hifi doesn't have a store here and the only competition HN has here is Betta Electrical which have worse prices.

At least when I needed a DP cable recently they had a Belkin in stock that wasn't overly expensive ($30 for 3 meters). Given how many extremely shoddy DP cables are on the market I'd rather get a name brand from a retailer with a physical location I can goto if it's shoddy.

[Raider]

Better yet - people need to boycott Harvey Norman and Domayne (owned by Harvey's wife) en masse.

I refuse to purchase anything from either. I use their stores as opportunities to inspect items in person then I use the good ol internet to find it cheaper elsewhere. I have spent a lot of money in both stores over the years but they well and truly lost my business forever.

[UltraMarginal]

haha, shop at Harvey Norman, you're funny. I totally get people not having a choice depending on location, I'm fortunate enough that I have a whole lot of options. I actually thought Harvey Norman and Domain were the same company, I guess I've learned my thing for today.

[UltraMarginal]

this extra 10% on imports will make me consider more purchases from local eretailers for my transformers. The little toy company and Toybot importz come to mind. both have been reliable for me and both have great prices on various things, definitely competitive when compared to importing a lot of Asian product.

I will be pretty dirty if I can't keep shopping at Anime-export or HLJ or robot kingdom or robotoybase because they don't want to deal with Australian tax, which is rubbish, I don't get how our government can expect/force an external entity to pay tax locally.

[DELTAprime]

^ Yeah I'm considering getting MP Dinobot and MPM Ironhide from TLTC if HLJ starts collecting GST. Still wouldn't buy from a brick and mortar retailer.

[DELTAprime]

Bad news. I checked with HLJ. They are going to be collecting GST.


Thank you for your message.

We are aware of these new regulations, and are currently working on ways to have everything we need in place for our Australian customers by July 1st. We'll be doing everything we can to comply with these new standards, including collecting GST on orders from customers in Australia.

We very much appreciate you taking the time to contact us about this.

Best regards,

[UltraMarginal]

they must make enough business out of Australia for it to be worth their while I guess.

[DELTAprime]

And even worse news. Amazon is going to refuse to ship to Australia from any international Amazon site

https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/amazon-to-block-its-us-website-for-aussie-shoppers-over-new-gst-rules-20180531-p4zikr.html

[BigTransformerTrev]

And even worse news. Amazon is going to refuse to ship to Australia from any international Amazon site

https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/amazon-to-block-its-us-website-for-aussie-shoppers-over-new-gst-rules-20180531-p4zikr.html

I got an email from them this morning, saying that my access to the US site would be cut off, but offering a $20 voucher as incentive to use the AUS version - like they have anything I want :rolleyes:

[SharkyMcShark]

I'm slightly confused about how they intend to enforce this against tiny vendors?

If this has already been posted somewhere smack me down for being ignorant, but do the packages have to ship with some kind of endorsement that GST has been paid?

For example, I collect high end replica lightsabers. These are usually made in small runs of say 30-40, and usually sold by vendors in America. One of the best is Vader's Vault, which is literally a "mom and pop" operation. What's the mechanic to get what is literally a small family business that makes a lot of international sales to collect the GST and pay it to the Federal Govt?

[DELTAprime]

I'm slightly confused about how they intend to enforce this against tiny vendors?

If this has already been posted somewhere smack me down for being ignorant, but do the packages have to ship with some kind of endorsement that GST has been paid?

For example, I collect high end replica lightsabers. These are usually made in small runs of say 30-40, and usually sold by vendors in America. One of the best is Vader's Vault, which is literally a "mom and pop" operation. What's the mechanic to get what is literally a small family business that makes a lot of international sales to collect the GST and pay it to the Federal Govt?

As it stands the law says you need to sell $75,000 of product to Australia per year to require tax collection. A lot of smaller sites will just claim they don't sell that much.

[griffin]

All pre-orders due after July 1st from anywhere outside of Australia are now at risk, if the business decides it is easier to not deal with Australia after that date than to collect tax for a foreign government and make payments.
HLJ could still decide that that is the easiest option to do that too... so we still have to have our fingers crossed if we have any pre-orders there after July 1st... and to be able to still use them, especially for the POTP and Movie toys that are identical to Hasbro versions (as a backup for losing Amazon).

[Handsprime]

I'm a little bit worried cause although the majority of my Transformer shopping is either local, through littletoycompany or even through Ozformers and TCCA, I do buy quite a bit of stuff online. I've already noticed that some music websites are already charging taxes on digital downloads, plus I tend to buy a lot of physical music from the UK so I'm worried that this new legislation could lead to independent stores to stop shipping stuff to Australia :(

[Trent]

I'm slightly confused about how they intend to enforce this against tiny vendors?

If this has already been posted somewhere smack me down for being ignorant, but do the packages have to ship with some kind of endorsement that GST has been paid?

For example, I collect high end replica lightsabers. These are usually made in small runs of say 30-40, and usually sold by vendors in America. One of the best is Vader's Vault, which is literally a "mom and pop" operation. What's the mechanic to get what is literally a small family business that makes a lot of international sales to collect the GST and pay it to the Federal Govt?

Off topic but I've been meaning to pick up a Vaders Vault Saber for a few years now. They look awesome. Eventually I'll pick up a Hero :)

[Skullcruncher]

Damn, I even got an email from Buyee who I sometimes use as a Proxy from YHJ. :mad:

===============
Thank you for using Buyee.

Starting July 2018,　the amendement of Australia's A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act will be applied.

Please check the Australian Tax Office homepage for details.
http://a06.hm-f.jp/cc.php?t=M604545&c=130819043&d=9452

The above changes will go into effect for Buyee after July 1st, 2018.
The following products and services will apply the 10% GST.

■Auctions: Items won from auctions and the service handling fee after July 1st
■Shopping: Items bought via the proxy purchasing and the service handling fee after July 1st
■Shipping: Fees relating to shipping packages after July 1st

Please reference the below page to learn more about what goods and services the GST will affect.

[DELTAprime]

I ended up preordering MP Dinobot from TLTC. I'd rather wait for TLTC's stock to come in than be slugged around $30 tax in addition to the extra shipping from Japan.

I've put in an email to BBTS to find out what they are doing since I use them on occasion.

[hYpNoS]

I've already emailed robot kingdom, no response as of yet, im kinda thankful hlj is on board as MOST of what I want is there, the cost I can handle.

Gonna suck if mandarake ends up being locked out though (where I find stuff outside of ebay) so gonna have to stock up on old stuff before I lose the chance forever

So, are they *still* gonna block smaller vendors if they don't comply, what about pre-paid purchases, I paid for things already, would make sense for websites you paid in full before July 1st will still ship at least...right?

[ZoonMaster5000]

I received an email from buyee japan which I use to access the auctions over there and they are saying the 10% also applies to the shipping cost which I find is a bit rich, almost like double taxing.

[Omega Metro]

I ended up preordering MP Dinobot from TLTC. I'd rather wait for TLTC's stock to come in than be slugged around $30 tax in addition to the extra shipping from Japan.

I've put in an email to BBTS to find out what they are doing since I use them on occasion.

I’d be interested to know what BBTS say as I use them a lot. I got my POL shipped yesterday so it arrives before July 1. Just in case.

[drifand]

I am concerned about orders placed but not paid? Will we get this additional charge then? So am I right we get gst for everything under 1k now from July?

This is how bs the government is “we will tax the business “ nope it puts the cost directly on to us. False advertising.

[hYpNoS]

What if item is fully paid and shipping in advance?

I got a few orders like that :S

[drifand]

What if item is fully paid and shipping in advance?

I got a few orders like that :S

Is a lot of grey area I feel like preorder.

[UltraMarginal]

What if item is fully paid and shipping in advance?

I got a few orders like that :S

I can't imagine they would charge that in arrears, as far as customs is going to be concerned all the incoming stuff will be taxed already if under 1K, I don't think their processes will change at all.

[hYpNoS]

I can't imagine they would charge that in arrears, as far as customs is going to be concerned all the incoming stuff will be taxed already if under 1K, I don't think their processes will change at all.


As drifand said it feels like a grey area, but this could help with robot kingdom pre-orders if this is ok, can't imagine the government checking this crap out.

But really if they need to charge more so be it, just dont take my money and not send because lol 'stralyians :S

[DELTAprime]

Got a response from BBTS. They are still looking at the situation.

[UltraMarginal]

As drifand said it feels like a grey area, but this could help with robot kingdom pre-orders if this is ok, can't imagine the government checking this crap out.

But really if they need to charge more so be it, just dont take my money and not send because lol 'stralyians :S

it's not a grey area, if the goods and services are paid for prior to the date that the tax comes in, it's not taxed.

There are new laws coming into effect this new tax year with respect to a lot of things, one being child care rebates are changing, they aren't going to back date that.

The reason this stuff happens at the start of the financial year is so it's less messy.

[ZoonMaster5000]

So tense.com have been a little clearer from an int’l Standpoint



[Invoice value below 1,000AUD]
tenso .com will charge 10% GST for the following:
1. Total invoice value
2. tenso .com usage fee (handling fee, consolidation fee, special packaging fee and international shipping fee)

[Invoice value above 1,000AUD]
tenso .com will charge 10% GST for the following:
1. tenso .com usage fee only (handling fee, consolidation fee, special packaging fee and international shipping fee)
** 10% GST of the total invoice value will be charged by the shipping company upon package arrival

So basically if it’s under $1k the business charges all the gst but if it’s over the business only charges for the goods then customs I assume put gst on the postage cost.

What a system!

[drifand]

it's not a grey area, if the goods and services are paid for prior to the date that the tax comes in, it's not taxed.

There are new laws coming into effect this new tax year with respect to a lot of things, one being child care rebates are changing, they aren't going to back date that.

The reason this stuff happens at the start of the financial year is so it's less messy.

So the question is if I paid for my goods at NY now, does it mean I dont get tax after June when they ship? THAT IS MY QUESTION.

And things like Amiami, I am pretty sure anything after June will be tax.

[UltraMarginal]

So the question is if I paid for my goods at NY now, does it mean I dont get tax after June when they ship? THAT IS MY QUESTION.

And things like Amiami, I am pretty sure anything after June will be tax.

If you pay for the goods and the services (shipping) now, then there's no transaction to tax if they ship later when they all come in. if you pay for shipping later, I expect you'll get taxed on it after July 1.

[griffin]

So basically... try to find as many pre-orders that get you to pre-pay the entire amount now (on sites that are reliable), to avoid tax on items shipped after July 1st.

[DaptoDog]

So basically... try to find as many pre-orders that get you to pre-pay the entire amount now (on sites that are reliable), to avoid tax on items shipped after July 1st.

Yes I'm tempted to pay for pre-orders of MP-29+ and MP-36+ now with Robot Kingdom given the A$ has also nudged up a little to 76.68.

[drifand]

I had a couple to pay with Nippon yasan and I think if I want tfs I have to make new decisions where I want to buy from.

I am not pleased that the radio ad made it that they tax the business as we can see is very well incorrect.

I actually wish they boycott Australia and we be in a stand still and have to lift this bs.

[bakakun]

Haven't been keeping up with this thread, so little help?

What's the best way to find out if a store is going to apply the GTS in July?

Should I just email all the stores I purchase from and ask or is there a more efficient way to find out?

If a store didn't comply with the low value GTS will I have to travel to a business hub to pay myself or can it be paid online and resent? This last question is really important to me because I really hate going to the business hubs whenever I miss a delivery.

[drifand]

practically all will be charged gst, Most of private seller can "escape gst" because you wont know that the business especially a small one earns over 75K a year.

If it gets stop by customs, I think you are within your rights to say I am not the seller, you collect gst from them dont you? Its none of your involvement. :)

[PROVOST]

Hobby Link Japan sent me an email explaining their changes to adhere to the GST in AUS.

But not heard from anyone else like BBTS,Entertainment Earth.