MP38 Supreme Commander Convoy (Optimus Primal). [Archive] - Ozformers Transformers Club of Australia (otca.com.au)

GoktimusPrime

10th January 2017, 10:02 PM

Just to confirm, this toy is currently being called "Optimus Primal Legendary Supreme Commander Version (コンボイ（ビーストウォーズ）伝説の総司令官Ver.). "Supreme Commander" has always been Optimus Primal's Tech Specs Bio function in Japan (http://www.transformerland.com/image/archive/specscans/full/Convoy_specs-7816.jpg) (whereas his Kenner/Hasbro function is Maximal General (http://www.seibertron.com/images/techspecs/large/optimus-primal-1996-2.jpg)).

P.S.: this toy is slated to come out in late June

Why?
To expand on what DELTAprime said, it's important for HasTak to reuse moulds because that helps to keep the cost of the toy down in general. Optimus Primal is a tricky one because there are no other characters that you can redeco him as, only as variants of the same character (e.g. Burning Convoy (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/9/9f/FlashBurningConvoy01.jpg) etc.). I don't know what this Supreme Commander Version will be like, perhaps it will have a more toy-accurate colour scheme (e.g. black fur instead of grey, flat navy blue helmet instead of metallic royal blue etc.).

These toys may not be everyone's Cube of Energon, but it's important for the toy line so I don't mind them. I don't personally collect these variants, but I can understand why they're important for HasTak. My only concern is whether or not this version will shelfwarm if it's a standard mass release figure, because a lot of TakaraTOMY's other mass release variant figures have shelfwarmed, e.g. Delta Magnus, Road Rage etc. - I know that technically these figures are separate characters, but as far as the toys are concerned they're fundamentally variants. A lot of people have skipped Delta Magnus because they view him as a variant of Ultra Magnus, and a lot of people skipped Road Rage because they saw her as a variant of Tracks. These sort of toys tend to do better if they're limited exclusives, like MP Loud Pedal, Tiger Track etc. - but then TakaraTOMY can't produce as many numbers and thus ultimately not make as much money as a mass release figure. It can be a tough call to see whether or not a toy is worth mass producing in hopes of making enough money from it, or keeping it as a limited release. Mind you, Loud Pedal was already the third version of the base MP Tracks mould, and they definitely made their money back on the MP Lambor mould through Red Alert and G2 Lambor (although G2 Lambor goes for pretty cheap on the secondary market; I got mine just a few months ago for about $50 (LMIB)).

Raider

11th January 2017, 10:50 AM

I'd love it to be Optimal Optimus but given the exact same price point as Primal, I tend to think this definitely means redeco. I tend to think that we will get Burning Convoy. If they were going to try and change the colours to be more toy accurate wouldn't they just make it MP-32+ like they did for Red Alert? (I now it was the other way around in that instance, the + version being more anime).

Civic Bossman

11th January 2017, 11:55 AM

Could it be a minor remold into Transmetal Primal?

GoktimusPrime

11th January 2017, 10:37 PM

Could it be a minor remold into Transmetal Primal?
That absolutely would not work. I take it's been a while since you've played with your Transmetal Optimus Primal. ;)

MayzaPrime

11th January 2017, 11:07 PM

I know that I will get this... :rolleyes:

I really liked the toy, it was my 2nd Beast Wars figure and it was a birthday present, so I am hoping that this version will be like the toy.

Having said that I will probably get this version before I get the original version from PC ;):D

Kazza

11th January 2017, 11:09 PM

Pre-order up on RK. It comes with a coin.

http://www.robotkingdom.com/tftrmp38.html

Trent

12th January 2017, 07:14 AM

So, how many people, like me, had never heard of burning convoy before yesterday? :p

DaptoDog

12th January 2017, 07:35 AM

So, how many people, like me, had never heard of burning convoy before yesterday? :p

Guilty as charged, but that's a given since I'm not a BW aficionado.

DELTAprime

12th January 2017, 07:59 AM

So, how many people, like me, had never heard of burning convoy before yesterday? :p

Same.:rolleyes:

Raider

12th January 2017, 09:41 AM

So, how many people, like me, had never heard of burning convoy before yesterday? :p

Yesterday was a first for me. Found out about it when going through tfwiki for redecos of the original Primal.

GoktimusPrime

12th January 2017, 11:28 AM

H (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=14355&postcount=367&highlight=burning)h (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=48162&postcount=28&highlight=burning)h (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=48275&postcount=12&highlight=burning)m (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=173192&postcount=7)m (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=281977&postcount=3&highlight=burning)m (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=295538&postcount=115&highlight=burning)m (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=477504&postcount=45&highlight=burning)m (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=543208&postcount=29). (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=544536&postcount=13&highlight=burning).. ;) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZjOjPvvAxQ)

I wonder how many people who'd never heard of Burning Convoy before this week are now suddenly finding themselves wanting one (https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder367/52873367.jpg). :p

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

12th January 2017, 11:40 AM

Listing has gone up at PC, but not live yet:

http://www.premiumcollectables.com.au/products/takara-mp-38-optimus-primal-supreme-commander-ver

DELTAprime

12th January 2017, 12:32 PM

Listing has gone up at PC, but not live yet:

http://www.premiumcollectables.com.au/products/takara-mp-38-optimus-primal-supreme-commander-ver

Obviously PC would be the cheapest, and I don't want to overspend on this repaint, but I'll probably order from HLJ because I can cancel it entirely if I decide too. I'm thinking it might be time to stop buying every single main line MP.

BigTransformerTrev

12th January 2017, 12:34 PM

Could it be a minor remold into Transmetal Primal?

TM versions don't seem too popular a concept. Never understood why they never did Transmetal versions of Generations Rattrap and Rhinox - woulda bought those ones, usually they milk a mold for all it's worth

drifand

12th January 2017, 12:51 PM

So, how many people, like me, had never heard of burning convoy before yesterday? :p

Nope , nada, as good as calling this monkey king I say.

GoktimusPrime

12th January 2017, 01:22 PM

Transmetals are completely different in design and aesthetics from their original counterparts and IMHO you just can't retool a figure based on an original BW toy to make it into a convincing Transmetal form. It's not like when Hasbro redecoed Deluxe Generations Bumblebee into Goldfire, because Goldbug's base aesthetic is similar enough to Bumblebee to get away with it. What you're suggesting is more like taking the original Movie Optimus Prime and repainting him to look like Age of Extinction/The Last Knight Optimus Prime. It just wouldn't work. Also, remember that the Transmetals are all triple-changers with tertiary vehicle modes.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/bw_transmetalcompar_zpsuhbu00o2.jpg

In fact, Hasbro UK took two non-Transmetal BW figures and repainted them as Transmetals. The end result was...
Transmetal Spittor (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/3/3a/BW-toy_SpittorTM.jpg) (compare with Transmetal 2 Spittor (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/3/3e/BWtoy-SpittorTransmetals2.jpg))
Transmetal Claw Jaw (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/e/e0/Cj_transmetal.jpg)
Neither of them look like convincing Transmetals. :p
(I only managed to get TM Spittor via a trade w/ a collector in Glasgow ;))

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

12th January 2017, 03:06 PM

PC's listing (http://www.premiumcollectables.com.au/products/takara-mp-38-optimus-primal-supreme-commander-ver) is now live, lads and ladies -- AU$110:

Frank

12th January 2017, 03:53 PM

PC's listing (http://www.premiumcollectables.com.au/products/takara-mp-38-optimus-primal-supreme-commander-ver) is now live, lads and ladies -- AU$110:

Got one on 2:20pm.

laproblematique

12th January 2017, 03:54 PM

PC's listing (http://www.premiumcollectables.com.au/products/takara-mp-38-optimus-primal-supreme-commander-ver) is now live, lads and ladies -- AU$110:

I'd pay about half that for an unrevealed masterpiece. :D

I'd be really pissed if I bought the same figure again and it was revealed that all it was is the same MP-31 Beast Convoy with a wrist mounted computer accessory as others speculated months ago with MP-31.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/4a3bd62c7b4989c7e6998ba790fa5939/tumblr_inline_my4qfsRmw01qz7jkg.jpg

Am I alone in thinking this is a total cluster@*# by Takara and all the online sellers listing before the reveal?

Ralph Wiggum

12th January 2017, 05:15 PM

Am I alone in thinking this is a total cluster@*# by Takara and all the online sellers listing before the reveal?

I know right? No official reveal, no picture, no details. If this were anything other than collectible toys, we'd call paying for "something" up front totally goddamn insane.

llamatron

12th January 2017, 05:35 PM

DaptoDog

12th January 2017, 05:44 PM

drifand

12th January 2017, 06:08 PM

These pre orders are bogus. I'm not pre ordering something with only a silhouette on principle alone. Thankfully the Japanese retailers wait a week or two before putting up their listings - I'll wait for that.

Learn from the bluesteak fiasco, rumours and people ordered and ended up silverstreak. Stuff that, not falling for this type of orders again.

Sinnertwin

12th January 2017, 06:15 PM

These pre orders are bogus. I'm not pre ordering something with only a silhouette on principle alone. Thankfully the Japanese retailers wait a week or two before putting up their listings - I'll wait for that.

For sure.
I'd hate to throw money at something that isn't due for another 5-10 months depending on where you shop, only to find out it isn't my cup of tea when actual images are released.

Raider

12th January 2017, 06:26 PM

For sure.
I'd hate to throw money at something that isn't due for another 5-10 months depending on where you shop, only to find out it isn't my cup of tea when actual images are released.

I think it is going to come down to how you collect. Masterpiece for me are like pokemon, got catch em all! :cool:

I am just banking on the fact that it has its own number and not simply a letter or + after 32 to mean that it is at least a substantial redeco.

DELTAprime

12th January 2017, 07:02 PM

I think it is going to come down to how you collect. Masterpiece for me are like pokemon, got catch em all! :cool:

I am just banking on the fact that it has its own number and not simply a letter or + after 32 to mean that it is at least a substantial redeco.

Yeah but they are giving repaints their own number these days that would once have been a letter. How the MP-11 Seekers are letters and yet Road Rage and Diaclone Magnus are new numbers just erks me. I would have made both Road Rage and Diaclone Magnus letters and limited releases. They are hurting the MP line with some of these repaints.

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

12th January 2017, 07:06 PM

Don't blame takara, blame the first retailer that jumped the gun and started taking orders before official solicitations, thereby forcing all other retailers to scramble and open orders up so they don't lose any sales.

Some blame should be placed on TT because at least have some low-res grainy "do not copy" pics on hand so that the suppliers know what they're hocking.

Got one on 2:20pm.

Damn! Was it up that early? Mind you, we're probably the only two that preordered! :D At least we can sleep early tonight!

DELTAprime

12th January 2017, 07:29 PM

Some blame should be placed on TT because at least have some low-res grainy "do not copy" pics on hand so that the suppliers know what they're hocking.

If a retailer decides to break embargo (or even before they have been given details) and put a preorder up it's not Takara's fault.

The only thing you could possibly blame Takara for is if it was a situation like the new Intel 7700k. A bunch of publications and some retailers decided to break embargo and publish reviews and take preorders months ahead of the January 3rd date. The important thing is Intel did nothing to take down the reviews, cancel preorders, threaten legal action or anything like that despite it getting Intel bad press because the reviews were based on pre-alpha firmware that ran the CPU incredibly hot. That hurt every publisher and retailer that played by the rules and respected the embargo.

Ode to a Grasshopper

12th January 2017, 07:29 PM

Maybe it's a G1 Optimus Prime-themed redeco of MP Beast Convoy...:p

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

12th January 2017, 07:34 PM

If a retailer decides to break embargo (or even before they have been given details) and put a preorder up it's not Takara's fault.

Are the non-Japanese stores subject to the same solicitation dates as the Japanese ones?

I always thought stuff from the Hasbro Asia side of things had different dates.

GoktimusPrime

12th January 2017, 07:48 PM

Don't blame takara, blame the first retailer that jumped the gun and started taking orders before official solicitations, thereby forcing all other retailers to scramble and open orders up so they don't lose any sales.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/meme_hesrightyouknow_zpsucsd932m.jpg

And it's not as if these retailers are putting guns against the heads of consumers and forcing them to jump on the pre-order bandwagon. At the end of the day we all vote with our wallets. If this turns out to be a meaningless redeco, then don't buy it. But as long as fans keep on buying it, then HasTak will keep making it.

Having said that, we still have no idea what kind of redeco this could be. It might be something meaningful like Burning Convoy (most obvious choice), or maybe something else like a toy-accurate deco or something. But these days HasTak are more likely to make meaningful redecos instead of meaningless ones. Remember when fans were fed up with this from Takara...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/takara_boardroom_zpswhqzhuue.jpg
Or when Hasbro were doing this...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/meme_bumblebeeeverywhere_zpsc18fac77.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/th_meme_rock_bumblebee_zps6eba1e8e.jpg

Yeah but they are giving repaints their own number these days that would once have been a letter. How the MP-11 Seekers are letters and yet Road Rage and Diaclone Magnus are new numbers just erks me. I would have made both Road Rage and Diaclone Magnus letters and limited releases. They are hurting the MP line with some of these repaints.
I highly doubt that having different numbering would've notably improved sales for Road Rage and Delta Magnus, but rather simply a lack of sufficient interest in these characters. I do agree that they should've been limited exclusive releases though.

DELTAprime

12th January 2017, 08:00 PM

I highly doubt that having different numbering would've notably improved sales for Road Rage and Delta Magnus, but rather simply a lack of sufficient interest in these characters. I do agree that they should've been limited exclusive releases though.

I wasn't implying the numbering was an issue in and of itself, I was implying that the fact they made it a full on numbered mass retail release was the issue. They really should have been limited release.

Lord_Zed

12th January 2017, 08:03 PM

Maybe it's a G1 Optimus Prime-themed redeco of MP Beast Convoy...:p

That thought crossed my mind too, given he is Supreme commander Convoy, maybe his a great red ape in space.

GoktimusPrime

12th January 2017, 08:35 PM

Maybe it's a G1 Optimus Prime-themed redeco of MP Beast Convoy...:pThat thought crossed my mind too, given he is Supreme commander Convoy, maybe his a great red ape in space.
That's not a bad idea, actually. They might redeco him in the colours of CD ROM Convobat (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tBhdfaOCDmE/VGO9HpAW-vI/AAAAAAAAIxM/omaZ6PVuu-4/s320/BW%2B001.jpg) which would finally see BW Optimus Prime upgraded from his basic bat form. If they gave the toy more G1 Optimus Prime colours then it'd end up looking like Primal Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primal_Prime)... which could be the intention. Although Primal Prime is a relatively unknown character in the JP market.

Burning Convoy still seems to be the most logical choice though IMO. Not that any of these potential redecos would interest me enough to want to buy them though. They could also redeco it in gold, red or blue (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/9/9f/Prizeprimals.jpg).

griffin

12th January 2017, 08:39 PM

Maybe it's a G1 Optimus Prime-themed redeco of MP Beast Convoy...:p

They might be wanting to replicate Hasbro's YOTM Optimus Primal, with its red/white/blue Gen1 Optimus colours.... and that really worked out well didn't it... it didn't shelfwarm at all.... or be discounted to a third of its original price on Amazon and still won't sell.
:p

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

12th January 2017, 08:43 PM

Burning Convoy still seems to be the most logical choice though IMO.

The 2004 version of the Burning Convoy toy (http://www.tfu.info/2004/Cybertron/BurningConvoy/burningconvoy.htm) was called "Supreme Commander", so that would be the most logical:

http://i.imgur.com/O21vRLB.jpg

If MP-38 is him, I wonder if they'll try to replicate the gun:

http://i.imgur.com/BoNGvOZ.jpg

EDIT: Looking again at TFU.info, the 1997 Clear Convoy toy (http://www.tfu.info/1997/Cybertron/ClearConvoy/clearconvoy.htm) was also given the title of "Supreme Commander", but TT are probably going to go for the Burning Convoy because he appeared in the Japanese 'toons.

hYpNoS

12th January 2017, 10:14 PM

If I never had mp primal I'd jump on that band wagon would be nice when pc finally ship him though

GoktimusPrime

13th January 2017, 01:26 AM

The 2004 version of the Burning Convoy toy (http://www.tfu.info/2004/Cybertron/BurningConvoy/burningconvoy.htm) was called "Supreme Commander", so that would be the most logical:
Almost every Convoy is called "Supreme Commander" (総司令官). That's the default Function for every Autobot or Maximal leader.
Original G1 Convoy (http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-74-35/yagyujaguar10/folder/1041887/72/25172272/img_0) (1985)
Rodimus Convoy (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/b/b6/G1toy_takara_rodimus_prime_reissue.jpg) (1986)
Fortress Maximus (http://superhappycashcow.com/pic/Transformers%202/ENCORE/23/x1b.JPG) (1987)
Ginrai (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k579nfdnxik/Tb15_FosIJI/AAAAAAAAAec/1Bkfn4Skrvs/s1600/DSC06197.JPG) (1988)
Star Sabre (http://toys.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2009/02/Star_Saber_Box_2_1233781201.jpg) (1989)
Dai Atlas (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7wHZ4za5oYw/ULHu_LvORzI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/BO4dZaxARKQ/s1600/2050323700100811158S500x500Q85.jpg) (1990)
Star Convoy (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/attachments/star-convoy-re-size-jpg.27185719/) (1991)
G2 TRF-1 Convoy (https://static.shmax.com/photos/l/3849) (1994)
Battle Convoy (http://blog-imgs-32.fc2.com/h/i/g/higekumatoytoy/20110220131519cfd.jpg) (1995)
Convoy (BW) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J2Q33FuoSEQ/VDVuGKPtCrI/AAAAAAAAID0/cykb2yrLEM8/s1600/scan%2B008.jpg) (1997)
Lio Convoy (http://tftechspecs.com/pics0/10361.jpg) (1998)
Big Convoy (http://www.transformerland.com/image/archive/specscans/full/Big%20Convoy_specs-8307.jpg) (1999)
Convoy (Micron Legend) (http://blog-imgs-54.fc2.com/o/m/o/omoidekiokucho/blog_import_4fda4c0c73857.jpeg) (2003)
Grand Convoy (http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/54/ee/e01bb618b5ddcc89b5380e9d5ce0a4cd.jpg) (2004)
MP1 Convoy (http://wing-auctions.c.yimg.jp/sim?furl=auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr269/auc0211/users/8/7/2/9/toys_t4-imgbatch_1479117969/450x600-2016111401961.jpg&dc=1&sr.fs=20000) (2004)
Galaxy Convoy (http://www.suruga-ya.jp/database/pics/game/607903298.jpg) (2005)
Convoy (Henkei! Henkei!) (http://www.geocities.jp/nezuppo_chu_taro/henkeiconvoy1.jpg) (2008)
Ultra Magnus (Animated) (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Dice/4403/takara/tfa/tfa1124.jpg) (2010)
MP9 Rodimus Convoy (http://static.seibertron.com/images/news/gfx/1296145287_201101272154034a7.jpg) (2011)
MP10 Convoy (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8vimp3J3u3k/UVTojxeskRI/AAAAAAAAdR8/QsimRQUyDAc/s1600/opm5.jpg) (2011)
---et al.

So simply being called "Supreme Commander" isn't anything special, at least, not in a way that would really tell us what kind of redeco this is. Although Convobat's Function is アマゾン戦士 (Amazonian Warrior), so the "Supreme Commander" Function may mean that it's not going to be Convobat.

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 01:53 AM

Almost every Convoy is called "Supreme Commander" (総司令官). That's the default Function for every Autobot or Maximal leader.
Original G1 Convoy (http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-74-35/yagyujaguar10/folder/1041887/72/25172272/img_0) (1985)
Rodimus Convoy (http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/b/b6/G1toy_takara_rodimus_prime_reissue.jpg) (1986)
Fortress Maximus (http://superhappycashcow.com/pic/Transformers%202/ENCORE/23/x1b.JPG) (1987)
Ginrai (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k579nfdnxik/Tb15_FosIJI/AAAAAAAAAec/1Bkfn4Skrvs/s1600/DSC06197.JPG) (1988)
Star Sabre (http://toys.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2009/02/Star_Saber_Box_2_1233781201.jpg) (1989)
Dai Atlas (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7wHZ4za5oYw/ULHu_LvORzI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/BO4dZaxARKQ/s1600/2050323700100811158S500x500Q85.jpg) (1990)
Star Convoy (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/attachments/star-convoy-re-size-jpg.27185719/) (1991)
G2 TRF-1 Convoy (https://static.shmax.com/photos/l/3849) (1994)
Battle Convoy (http://blog-imgs-32.fc2.com/h/i/g/higekumatoytoy/20110220131519cfd.jpg) (1995)
Convoy (BW) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J2Q33FuoSEQ/VDVuGKPtCrI/AAAAAAAAID0/cykb2yrLEM8/s1600/scan%2B008.jpg) (1997)
Lio Convoy (http://tftechspecs.com/pics0/10361.jpg) (1998)
Big Convoy (http://www.transformerland.com/image/archive/specscans/full/Big%20Convoy_specs-8307.jpg) (1999)
Convoy (Micron Legend) (http://blog-imgs-54.fc2.com/o/m/o/omoidekiokucho/blog_import_4fda4c0c73857.jpeg) (2003)
Grand Convoy (http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/54/ee/e01bb618b5ddcc89b5380e9d5ce0a4cd.jpg) (2004)
MP1 Convoy (http://wing-auctions.c.yimg.jp/sim?furl=auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr269/auc0211/users/8/7/2/9/toys_t4-imgbatch_1479117969/450x600-2016111401961.jpg&dc=1&sr.fs=20000) (2004)
Galaxy Convoy (http://www.suruga-ya.jp/database/pics/game/607903298.jpg) (2005)
Convoy (Henkei! Henkei!) (http://www.geocities.jp/nezuppo_chu_taro/henkeiconvoy1.jpg) (2008)
Ultra Magnus (Animated) (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Dice/4403/takara/tfa/tfa1124.jpg) (2010)
MP9 Rodimus Convoy (http://static.seibertron.com/images/news/gfx/1296145287_201101272154034a7.jpg) (2011)
MP10 Convoy (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8vimp3J3u3k/UVTojxeskRI/AAAAAAAAdR8/QsimRQUyDAc/s1600/opm5.jpg) (2011)
---et al.

So simply being called "Supreme Commander" isn't anything special, at least, not in a way that would really tell us what kind of redeco this is. Although Convobat's Function is アマゾン戦士 (Amazonian Warrior), so the "Supreme Commander" Function may mean that it's not going to be Convobat.

Sure, but we know it's obviously not going to be Supreme Commander Grand Convoy given the price point and the fact that it's an Optimus Primal repaint or retool, so we can only guess what logically the figure may be given the history of the toys and 'toons.

As you noted, Convobat is "Amazonian Warrior" so we can pretty much rule him out and other non-BW characters, so all we can do now is hold onto our d!cks until pics come out.

GoktimusPrime

13th January 2017, 02:03 AM

Which means we've narrowed it down to ... gorilla Convoy ...

Which we already knew, since it's going to be a redeco of MP Beast Convoy. What I'm saying is that the "Supreme Commander" tag line tells us nothing more about what this redeco is going to be. It certainly doesn't mean that it's going to be Burning Beast Convoy. I do think that Burning Convoy is the most logical choice, but we cannot deduce that simply from the "Supreme Commander Version" tag line.

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 02:15 AM

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 02:37 AM

Pics via Dengeki Hobby (http://hobby.dengeki.com/news/320287/):

http://i.imgur.com/MzjyWj5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xXL0bKF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BLJ76DN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Z97ESAh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ceblnR4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V0Y46wU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I3EoDw2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xEuxuKW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/acodgdL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FpmsYM5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MjawRf8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3DBhVmq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bvtdC7Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a25FEjk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/X40ellG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JAONqOz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hO2CUcS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dTNYya3.jpg

hYpNoS

13th January 2017, 03:26 AM

So he gets a new number just because of accessories and a paint job change.

And I would of gotten THIS over the current just because of those, greaaat :(

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 03:32 AM

So he gets a new number just because of accessories and a paint job change.

Just like MP-31, MP-37 etc... it's TT's MO for money making!

That said, I do like the minimalism of it, and it hits the right nostalgia spots for me!

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 06:13 AM

Listing up at Ami Ami:

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-027226

DaptoDog

13th January 2017, 06:17 AM

And with that my quest to complete the Masterpiece line is done.

yoshi594

13th January 2017, 06:31 AM

i might be in the minority here...but i like it! it's a homage to the original toy! i was wondering where that alien mask went :p.

No idea why they didn't just do mp-32T(toy) or something like they did with the red alert anime version.

I hope that's not all the accessories thou...i loved the faces mp-32 came with!

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 06:47 AM

No idea why they didn't just do mp-32T(toy) or something like they did with the red alert anime version.

I hope that's not all the accessories thou...i loved the faces mp-32 came with!

The deco is primarily based on the BWII movie deco (which overlaps with the toy):

https://youtu.be/_F7C1gKnKfo?t=35m35s

Yeah, they should've at least included the bot mode screamy face, would've looked awesome compared to the original toy artwork:

http://i.imgur.com/vFq4NAD.jpg?1http://i.imgur.com/MzjyWj5.jpg

1AZRAEL1

13th January 2017, 06:53 AM

Cool and all, but I like my show accurate over this. Easily skipped for me. Now if they do a Burning Convoy version...

BigTransformerTrev

13th January 2017, 07:19 AM

TM versions don't seem too popular a concept. Never understood why they never did Transmetal versions of Generations Rattrap and Rhinox - woulda bought those ones, usually they milk a mold for all it's worth

Transmetals are completely different in design and aesthetics from their original counterparts and IMHO you just can't retool a figure based on an original BW toy to make it into a convincing Transmetal form.

Course ya can! Take a rat, rip the back legs off and stick on a couple'a wheels and you have TM Rattrap, rip the ones off a Rhino and stick on tank tracks and you have TM Rhinox. A new paint job each and done - piss easy!

If they could turn Generations Springer into Generations Sandstorm they could do the above no probs.

Verno

13th January 2017, 07:51 AM

What a beautiful figure! And those accessories! Delicious!

The reason it gets its own number is because it's a different character.

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 07:53 AM

What a beautiful figure! And those accessories! Delicious!

The reason it gets its own number is because it's a different character.

So did you pull the trigger and get one Verno?

Trent

13th January 2017, 08:15 AM

...Delicious!...

You use that word a lot. And I always read it in Jonathan Pryce's voice. Every time.

And I haven't watched Tomorrow Never Dies in many, many years.

drifand

13th January 2017, 08:32 AM

Without knowing a thing about bw, this piece looks better for me but I am not collecting bw.

Sinnertwin

13th January 2017, 09:58 AM

What a beautiful figure! And those accessories! Delicious!

The reason it gets its own number is because it's a different character.

If numbers were determined by character, then all of the new Seekers would have their own, along with the likes of Loud Pedal. Even the little red corvette Road Rage gets her own number. Poor Loud Pedal on the other hand just gets an L.
Seems to me that they're just numbering on the fly.

Borgeman

13th January 2017, 10:10 AM

If numbers were determined by character, then all of the new Seekers would have their own, along with the likes of Loud Pedal. Even the little red corvette Road Rage gets her own number. Poor Loud Pedal on the other hand just gets an L.
Seems to me that they're just numbering on the fly.

I think the best theory is mass release toys get their own number, limited releases or exclusives like Loud Pedal do not.

Having a quick look at the list, it seems to fit well with the numbering history

Verno

13th January 2017, 10:36 AM

So did you pull the trigger and get one Verno?
I willingly admit that I'm tempted to. For me, Beast Wars has always been about the relation to character. For the longest time, I only ever collected the characters that appeared in the show. Only when the IDW BW comics came out in 2006 did I expand my collecting scope to all western Beast Wars figures.

Ultimately, I think I'll pass on this one, for now. It'll be interesting to watch if future BW MPs get a similar toy-accurate treatment. It would certainly fix the problem that figures like Rattrap and Rhinox would have of having no obvious redeco/retool.

You use that word a lot. And I always read it in Jonathan Pryce's voice. Every time.

And I haven't watched Tomorrow Never Dies in many, many years.
I had to quickly google it, but it fits! :P

Without knowing a thing about bw, this piece looks better for me but I am not collecting bw.
Go on. Give in to the darkside!

If numbers were determined by character, then all of the new Seekers would have their own, along with the likes of Loud Pedal. Even the little red corvette Road Rage gets her own number. Poor Loud Pedal on the other hand just gets an L.
Seems to me that they're just numbering on the fly.

I think the best theory is mass release toys get their own number, limited releases or exclusives like Loud Pedal do not.

Having a quick look at the list, it seems to fit well with the numbering history
I can only make sense of the BW characters. It's a smaller sample size. The argument could be made that all BW MPs will have an even number. Or that BW Predacons will have an odd number and Maximals even. Time will tell. I'm sure something will throw a spanner in the works somewhere along the way.

GoktimusPrime

13th January 2017, 11:05 AM

Called it. ;)

perhaps it will have a more toy-accurate colour scheme (e.g. black fur instead of grey, flat navy blue helmet instead of metallic royal blue etc.).

The reason it gets its own number is because it's a different character.
:confused: The original C-1 Convoy's tech specs (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J2Q33FuoSEQ/VDVuGKPtCrI/AAAAAAAAID0/cykb2yrLEM8/s1600/scan%2B008.jpg) and all supporting material (e.g. trading cards etc.) establish the toy as the same character as Convoy from Beast Wars (why would they do otherwise?). Contrast this with Convobat's tech specs (http://tfarchive.com/toys/techspecs/beast-era/japan1997__VS-S1_(Optimus_Primal).jpg) which establishes him as a different character from Optimus Primal (i.e. Optimus Prime).
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/bwcard_convoy_zpsqi0lp9pt.jpg
Also, Convoy from the BWII movie is the same character as Convoy from the BW series. The BWII movie was intended to be a crossover between BW and BWII, and BWII and BW Neo were meant to be "Expanded Universes" for Beast Wars. They were always meant to be in the same continuity, I've never read or heard anything from any official Takara canonical source which establishes them as separate continuities.

At most you could say that there are two universes: one where the events in the Canadian series exists but the events in the Japanese series don't, and one where the events in all series occurred. Similar to how there are two main universes in the G1 comics; Earth-91274 where only the events of the US comics occur, and Earth-120185, where the events of the US and UK comics occur. But Optimus Prime of Earth-91274 is the same character as Optimus Prime of Earth-120185, it's just that certain events like the Time Wars never happened for Optimus Prime of Earth-91274 (although things got a bit mucky when Simon Furman took over writing for the Marvel US comics and started tying in continuity with the UK comics; e.g. Matrix Quest :p). So similarly the Japanese Beast Wars continuity is not meant to be an entirely separate one; not where BW Convoy ≠ Optimus Primal.

The Japanese BW continuity is much closer to the Canadian BW continuity than Japanese G1 anime continuity is to the US G1 cartoon continuity. As we all know, Japanese G1 divorced itself from US G1 after Season 3 (TF2010), taking a completely different direction and concept beginning with The☆Headmasters. Japanese BW never derailed Canadian continuity, it merely expanded on it. To say that Convoy in the BWII movie is a separate character from Optimus Primal is like saying that Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars series is not the same person as Anakin Skywalker in the movies. Okay, if you want to ignore the 'expanded universe' stuff, fine... but that's not to say that the expansion material is necessarily entirely separate from the prime continuity.

If you're saying that BW Convoy is a separate character (beyond being an alternate continuity's version of the same character), then I'd like to see some canonical evidence.

The deco is primarily based on the BWII movie deco (which overlaps with the toy)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/meme_hesrightyouknow_zpsucsd932m.jpg
I agree. While there are a few things which are drawn from the toy (i.e. Mutant head, flail weapon), the toy's deco appears to be mostly inspired by the cel animation model for Optimus Primal, as evidenced by things like:
* White eyes with black pupils; the original toy has entirely blue eyes
* Flat matte black fur; no attempt at emulating fur grain as on the original MP Beast Convoy toy. Granted they wouldn't ever be able to accurately emulate it with a tampograph as the original Optimus Primal toy has the fur beautifully sculpted onto the plastic.
* The chambray blue colour on the lips (the original obviously has no mouth)

I willingly admit that I'm tempted to. For me, Beast Wars has always been about the relation to character. For the longest time, I only ever collected the characters that appeared in the show.
The show isn't entirely essential for knowing the characters (that's what tech specs bios are for :D), or for collecting some really great toys. :o Just out of curiosity, how did you decide which BW toys to collect before the show came out?

P.S.: Sorry if anything in this post sounds snarkier than intended - I'm typing in a rush as I'm about to head out. Peace! :D

DaptoDog

13th January 2017, 11:16 AM

I willingly admit that I'm tempted to. For me, Beast Wars has always been about the relation to character. For the longest time, I only ever collected the characters that appeared in the show. Only when the IDW BW comics came out in 2006 did I expand my collecting scope to all western Beast Wars figures.

Ultimately, I think I'll pass on this one, for now. It'll be interesting to watch if future BW MPs get a similar toy-accurate treatment. It would certainly fix the problem that figures like Rattrap and Rhinox would have of having no obvious redeco/retool.

Well if an avid BW fan like yourself is on the fence about picking this up I'll be interested to see how it sells. I guess given it is Convoy it may do well. But I can't imagine repaints of lessor BW characters selling well with a mass retail release.

It really is odd that this and others like Delta Magnus got a mass release while the seekers (ex Starscream) who are major/2nd tier G1 characters were exclusives.

llamatron

13th January 2017, 11:17 AM

Welcome to Masterpiece, where the numbers are made up and the designations don't matter! :p

Gotta admit this release looks siiiick, but I'm not going to double dip, and wish TT would sometimes be more upfront about such similar repaint variants coming out... But thems the breaks!

Verno

13th January 2017, 11:33 AM

Convoy from the BWII movie is the same character as Convoy from the BW series. The BWII movie was intended to be a crossover between BW and BWII, and BWII and BW Neo were meant to be "Expanded Universes" for Beast Wars. They were always meant to be in the same continuity, I've never read or heard anything from any official Takara canonical source which establishes them as separate continuities.
Optimus Primal, the legendary general commander, that appears in BWII isn't Optimus Primal from the Mainframe TV show. They are in different universes. They share a name, but are not the same character. Thus, they warrant different numbers.

What was meant and intended by the BWII episode in 1998 was clearly proven to be impossible by subsequent fiction.

Two characters. Two universes. Same name. It's pretty straight forward really.

The show isn't entirely essential for knowing the characters (that's what tech specs bios are for :D), or for collecting some really great toys. :o Just out of curiosity, how did you decide which BW toys to collect before the show came out?
My first introduction to Beast Wars was the show. Not all of us were on the alt. toy forums throwing around the trukk not munky bollocks in 1996.

Well if an avid BW fan like yourself is on the fence about picking this up I'll be interested to see how it sells. I guess given it is Convoy it may do well. But I can't imagine repaints of lessor BW characters selling well with a mass retail release.
I think it's aimed at the Japanese market, where it should do well. I think we'll see a Burning version of it at some point down the track too.

DELTAprime

13th January 2017, 01:34 PM

Well my current thoughts are I don't like it, but knowing how I can change my mind on things I've placed an order at HLJ which if I don't come around to liking it I will cancel.

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

13th January 2017, 04:50 PM

TTMall's listing (http://takaratomymall.jp/shop/g/g4904810877523/) plus extra big pics by Amazon Japan (https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%8 2%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%94%E3%8 3%BC%E3%82%B9-MP38-%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%82%A6%E3%8 2%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA-%E4%BC%9D%E8%AA%AC%E3%81%AE%E7%B7%8F%E5%8F%B8%E4%B B%A4%E5%AE%98Ver/dp/B01MZ8KZVM):

http://i.imgur.com/0t7bAoQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/313bk9O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JbHGE1C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RwzXO45.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q3QyOiX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s2OwM0w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZX288tO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bkO7eKI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uRgLkrP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pKvS8As.jpg

Raider

13th January 2017, 05:10 PM

Gotta collect them all! I actually prefer this to MP-32. BW OP was my first BW toy and so I like the nostalgia. I also used my $65 energon coupon so it only cost me like ~$50 :D

laproblematique

13th January 2017, 05:31 PM

I see this one virtually shelf warming.

The paint apps on the Gorilla mode look horrible - like a poor man's custom job somebody did on MP-32.

FatalityPitt

13th January 2017, 05:45 PM

The face/mask accessory looks like Inferno's face! Inferno - the Predacon that turns into an ant. Did Convoy/Optimus Primal rip his face off and wear it??

Man, I wish Hasbro/Takara would do a Generations/Legends line dedicated to Beast Wars. Even just repacks or reissues of the 1996 toys would make me happy enough.

EDIT: Oh, it's his organic 'beast' face. My bad. I never owned the original toy.

GoktimusPrime

13th January 2017, 10:29 PM

Optimus Primal, the legendary general commander, that appears in BWII isn't Optimus Primal from the Mainframe TV show. They are in different universes. They share a name, but are not the same character. Thus, they warrant different numbers.

What was meant and intended by the BWII episode in 1998 was clearly proven to be impossible by subsequent fiction.

Two characters. Two universes. Same name. It's pretty straight forward really.
Replied here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=547669#post547669). :)

I see this one virtually shelf warming.

The paint apps on the Gorilla mode look horrible - like a poor man's custom job somebody did on MP-32.
It's show-accurately dull, same as MP Inferno. This is what happens when you make your toys accurate to cel animated models. :o Although MP Inferno never had to compete with say a more toy-accurate detailed version.

Optimus Primal is a tough call. We know that TakaraTOMY have to repaint it as something to make more money back on the mould, but what else can they repaint it as? Burning Convoy is an even more obscure variant as it's based on Optimus Primal's appearance in one scene in the theatrical movie. Whereas this repaint is consistent with Optimus Primal's admittedly cameo appearance in the film, and is also toy-accurate which appeals to fans of toy-accuracy. So this redeco has a two-tier appeal, whereas Burning Convoy has a narrow single-tier appeal. But other than a cel-animation/toy-accurate or Burning Convoy redeco, what else can they do with this mould? :o We want TakaraTOMY to release all these characters as MPs, but from their POV they need to consider the redeco potential to justify the cost of R&Ding the mould in the first place.

The face/mask accessory looks like Inferno's face! Inferno - the Predacon that turns into an ant. Did Convoy/Optimus Primal rip his face off and wear it??

Man, I wish Hasbro/Takara would do a Generations/Legends line dedicated to Beast Wars. Even just repacks or reissues of the 1996 toys would make me happy enough.

EDIT: Oh, it's his organic 'beast' face. My bad. I never owned the original toy.
All of the first year Deluxe, Mega (Voyager) and Ultra figures came with alternate Mutant robot (not beast) heads. I say robot because they were only usable in robot mode. In the TV series most BW TFs were animated with the robot head, but at least two characters were animated with their mutant heads; Tarantulas and Waspinator. Their Transmetal forms' heads were also based on their mutant heads. Blackarachnia is a straight up repaint of Tarantulas, but animators chose to base the show model's head on her robot head instead of her mutant head. But Tarantulas has this robot head too. And although Buzz Saw never appeared in the show, he is always illustrated with his robot head instead of his mutant one (he and Waspinator share the exact same heads).

Before the BW cartoon came out I used to imagine that their mutant heads gave them a more savage or berserker quality to their robot mode. I still do this when I choose to ignore cartoon continuity and go with the original pre-cartoon toy continuity. :D

MayzaPrime

13th January 2017, 11:29 PM

I preordered before I saw the pics but damn.... so glad I did. I like this better than the original

FatalityPitt

13th January 2017, 11:37 PM

All of the first year Deluxe, Mega (Voyager) and Ultra figures came with alternate Mutant robot (not beast) heads. I say robot because they were only usable in robot mode. In the TV series most BW TFs were animated with the robot head, but at least two characters were animated with their mutant heads; Tarantulas and Waspinator. Their Transmetal forms' heads were also based on their mutant heads. Blackarachnia is a straight up repaint of Tarantulas, but animators chose to base the show model's head on her robot head instead of her mutant head. But Tarantulas has this robot head too. And although Buzz Saw never appeared in the show, he is always illustrated with his robot head instead of his mutant one (he and Waspinator share the exact same heads).

Before the BW cartoon came out I used to imagine that their mutant heads gave them a more savage or berserker quality to their robot mode. I still do this when I choose to ignore cartoon continuity and go with the original pre-cartoon toy continuity. :D

Yeah, most of the BW toys I had were the basics (Terrorsaur, Rattrap, Razorbeast, etc). The only deluxes I had were Tigertron, Blackarachnia and Tarantulas. I noticed the mutant heads on Tigertron and the two "spider-cons" (if I can call them that), but never put much thought in them. Although it would have been cool if they wore them in the show as battle masks, or a manifestation of their bestial or monstrous side when they're angry.

Lord_Zed

14th January 2017, 12:09 AM

To me it looks kind of awful, but I understand the appeal, like G2 repaints this toy really trades in nostalgia, and the novel value is kinda cool.

GoktimusPrime

14th January 2017, 01:20 AM

Only that BW was popular. :p The thing that perplexes me about G2 and MW homages is... where the hell did all these so-called "die hard" fans of G2 and MW come from?!? :confused: These lines were awful shelfwarmers, lingering in stores for years after release.

Ultra Optimus Primal was my very first BW toy, but I must admit that it did take me a while to finally track one down (in some small independently owned toy store sitting on a bottom shelf next to Megatron). Although it may have also been because fewer retailers were actually ordering BW stock in 1996. :o 1997 was - in my observation - the real big bang for Beast Wars. The TV show was out and built greater awareness of the brand, and toys were readily available in major stores. And selling fast. :eek:

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

14th January 2017, 02:10 AM

I preordered before I saw the pics but damn.... so glad I did.

Same!

Then after I saw the pics, I preordered a second one! :eek:

hYpNoS

14th January 2017, 02:26 AM

Only that BW was popular. :p The thing that perplexes me about G2 and MW homages is... where the hell did all these so-called "die hard" fans of G2 and MW come from?!? :confused: These lines were awful shelfwarmers, lingering in stores for years after release.

A need to milk the mold perhaps, g2 bumblebee was all they could get out of the bumblebee mold as a mainline release whilst sideswipe...dunno guess they thought mister gimace looked cool enough to milk the mold some more despite ALL of the other uses (red alert, anime+, clampdown, tigertrack), least he was a decent package and was worth it personally unlike g2 bumblebee.

(g2 starscream and ramjet when?)

VGMStudios

14th January 2017, 07:33 AM

Its an awesome nod to the original toy but its defiantly NOT better then the first one nor should it be considered a MASTER PIECE!

Verno

14th January 2017, 08:16 AM

Replied here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=547669#post547669). :)
In Beast Wars II, Optimus Primal is called the "Legendary General Commander", and the character acts as such in the episode.

In Beast Wars, Optimus Primal is new to the post of commander.

In Beast Wars II, Optimus Primal has the ability to turn into Burning Convoy.

In Beast Wars, Optimus Primal does not have this ability.

In Beast Wars II, Optimus Primal has an Energon Matrix in his chest.

In Beast Wars, Optimus Primal does not.

They are not the same character. I'm genuinely surprised I have to explain this to you in such explicit detail.

BigTransformerTrev

14th January 2017, 12:17 PM

A need to milk the mold perhaps, g2 bumblebee was all they could get out of the bumblebee mold as a mainline release whilst sideswipe...dunno guess they thought mister gimace looked cool enough to milk the mold some more despite ALL of the other uses (red alert, anime+, clampdown, tigertrack), least he was a decent package and was worth it personally unlike g2 bumblebee.

(g2 starscream and ramjet when?)

They could have done Goldbug, with maybe a hood that attaches to his upper back rather than a spare tyre. I couldn't justify buying a MP G2 Bbee but I may have shelled out for a Goldbug.

As for BWII, I have them on my harddrive- about the worst TF cartoon ever from what I remember though I'm sure it has its fans.

Ark-Ivor

14th January 2017, 12:59 PM

The listing is up on TakaraTomy Mall (http://takaratomymall.jp/shop/g/g4904810877523/)

Here's a rough translation: (note "Legendary Generall Commander" has been changed to "Supreme Commander" and "Convoy (Beast Wars)" to "Optimus Primal".

Transformers Masterpiece MP-38 Optimus Primal Supreme Commander Ver.

Price : ￥12,960
Item No. : 4904810877523
Manufacturer : TakaraTomy
Brand : Transformers
Target Age : 15 years old+
Points Earned : 120 points
Package Size : W240�H240�D85mm
Battery : LR44 button battery x2 (sold separately)
Release Date : 2017-06 Late

※Left of photo MP-32 Optimus Primal is sold separately

Beast Wars II Movie Edition "Lioconvoy Crisis!" featured an appearance of supreme commander "Optimus Primal"!!

Recalling the black body of the original toy, newly modelled optional equipment parts are included with this "Second" version!!

Based on MP-32 Optimus Primal, matte black coloured fur and skin sections produce a profoundly different feeling to this deco.

Originally pictured in the toy versions box art, the connected handle Double Blade has been newly added. An offensive 2-way skull type hammer can be equipped as either a club mace or a "ball-and-chain" flail, with metal chain. Light-piping allows the hidden wild beast mask face to, even when being worn, emit light from its eyes (batteries not included). This new equipment can be connected to both sides of a weapon rack that mounts on the back. Fully equipped with new weapons and a berserker fury, let's summon supreme commander Optimus Primal now.

Contents:
Optimus Primal body (1), Cyber-Blade (2), Double Blade (1), Hammer (1), Beast Mask (1), Weapon Rack (1), Replacement Face (Robot Mask) (1), Replacement Face (Beast-Scream) (1), Face (Robot-Normal) (1), Face (Beast-Normal) (1), Character Card (1), Instruction Manual (1)

nb. Primal's original "Skull-and-chain" is neither a club nor a flail nor a morningstar nor a mace. There is no contemporary evidence that the traditional "Ball-and-Chain" was ever even used as a weapon anywhere, appearing only in collections and on coats of arms. This "Hammer" can have the Skull clipped directly onto the Handle for use as a Mace or be separated on its chain for use as a Flail.

GoktimusPrime

14th January 2017, 01:13 PM

In Beast Wars II, Optimus Primal is called the "Legendary General Commander", and the character acts as such in the episode. [SNIP]
Replied here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=547718#post547718), since this discussion has moved beyond discussing this MP redeco I'd rather not derail this thread.

Verno

14th January 2017, 01:23 PM

Replied here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=547718#post547718), since this discussion has moved beyond discussing this MP redeco I'd rather not derail this thread.
This...

"We never saw the inside of Season 1 Optimus Primal's chest. I'm not saying that Larry DiTillio or Bob Forward ever intended for Optimus Primal to have a Matrix in his chest, but the presence of one in the BWII movie does not contradict the Canadian series."

... is the poorest kind of argument to make. You should really be ashamed of yourself.

Optimus Primal, in the Beast Wars II episode, is essentially Optimus Prime (Convoy) in a gorilla suit.

Optimus Primal, in the Beast Wars TV show, is just a commander.

I'm done with this, Gok.

BigTransformerTrev

14th January 2017, 05:51 PM

Optimus Primal, in the Beast Wars II episode, is essentially Optimus Prime (Convoy) in a gorilla suit.

Bwah haha! I love the idea of that! :D

"Hey mates, look at me! I'm bloody Optimus Primal - monkey, monkey, monkey!"

Sorry, I know you two are having a serious debate, I'll bugger off now. :o

And no, I don't know why I made Optimus Prime sound like Outback - blame Pratchett's 'The Last Continent' :p

GoktimusPrime

14th January 2017, 07:22 PM

Bwah haha! I love the idea of that! :D
That was actually how Beast Wars started before the TV show came along. The Maximals and Predacons were actually the Autobots and Decepticons upgraded with beast modes, and this is reflected in the early tech specs bios and pack-in comic. It was Mainframe Entertainment who later decided to throw this idea out the window and created the idea of establishing the Maximals and Predacons as the great descendants of the Autobots and Decepticons, not the Autobots and Decepticons themselves, and start the story in the far future (only to travel to the prehistoric past #wibblywobbly). Hasbro/Kenner wrote the tech spec bios later to be more aligned with the cartoon continuity, and in fact, the cartoon writers were able to have some influence on the way that some tech spec bios were written in order to collaborate with ideas that they had for the show, and indeed Mainframe's writer(s) (probably Larry DiTillio) occasionally collaborated with Hasbro in terms of character bios so that they would match up with what they had planned for the show. :)

hYpNoS

14th January 2017, 07:24 PM

They could have done Goldbug, with maybe a hood that attaches to his upper back rather than a spare tyre. I couldn't justify buying a MP G2 Bbee but I may have shelled out for a Goldbug.

As for BWII, I have them on my harddrive- about the worst TF cartoon ever from what I remember though I'm sure it has its fans.
Why yes that would be nice, what with a blue head and all, maybe they didn't because the actual toy is different, not sure what the japanese take was with the little throttle bots fiction wise

BW2 was much like super god masterforce for me, quite japanese-y, maybe too much for my taste, mind you I had a poorly dubbed copy so I enjoyed that chore even less :(

As for the on going discussion with gotimusprime and verno about what optimus primal is...

I honestly think BOTH of you are correct.

They are meant to be the same character, in the same universe, however takara in japan wrote beast wars differently, remember airazor was a man and were writing on the fly until tigertron and airazor kissed and ruined their little bromance they had going on.

But this would also mean g1 convoy and g1 optimus prime are also different characters, we know the japanese headmasters were VERY different to what we westerners got.

Which would be a good thing too, didn't like what the japanese did to their g1 arcee but we'd be going further down the track if we discussed that

tinyJazz

14th January 2017, 07:55 PM

They are meant to be the same character, in the same universe, however takara in japan wrote beast wars differently, remember airazor was a man and were writing on the fly until tigertron and airazor kissed and ruined their little bromance they had going on.

how is that "ruined"? Are you sure you didn't mean "improved"?

BigTransformerTrev

14th January 2017, 08:04 PM

how is that "ruined"? Are you sure you didn't mean "improved"?

I have the Timelines version of Airazor - I think it works quite well as a female :)

GoktimusPrime

14th January 2017, 11:02 PM

Replied here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=547769&posted=1#post547769) :)

MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

15th January 2017, 10:59 PM

... remember airazor was a man and were writing on the fly until tigertron and airazor kissed and ruined their little bromance they had going on.

They could have easily solved that problem had they watched that episode of Blackadder where he falls in love with his manservant "Bob" (https://youtu.be/_gIBpxXQyVU?t=15m51s)...

hYpNoS

16th January 2017, 01:43 AM

how is that "ruined"? Are you sure you didn't mean "improved"?

Subject to opinion, I noticed alot of older anime's (especially those with kids as a big focus ie mecha) stick to stereotypes, and seeing how airazor the toy wasn't designed as a female as such (they take their toy accuracy seriously) I would suspect what happened may of been jarring for native viewers (as well as the crew who thought making them bro's was a smart idea :D)

They could have easily solved that problem had they watched that episode of Blackadder where he falls in love with his manservant "Bob" (https://youtu.be/_gIBpxXQyVU?t=15m51s)...

Heh, if only~

tinyJazz

16th January 2017, 08:30 PM

Subject to opinion, I noticed alot of older anime's (especially those with kids as a big focus ie mecha) stick to stereotypes, and seeing how airazor the toy wasn't designed as a female as such (they take their toy accuracy seriously) I would suspect what happened may of been jarring for native viewers (as well as the crew who thought making them bro's was a smart idea :D)

Yeah, I see what you're saying about the native viewers, I don't know what gay representation was like on Japanese TV in the 90s, (apart from Haruka and Michiru in Sailor Moon), so it might have been surprising then.

I actually asked what you meant, because your original comment sounded like you had a problem with two people of the same gender kissing. :/

until tigertron and airazor kissed and ruined their little bromance they had going on.

Anyway, the Japanese Beast Wars Magazine (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Airazor_(BW)#Gender) seems to think it improved their relationship so,

Question: "If Tigatron and Airazor are both boys, how come they were flirting when the Aliens abducted them?"

Answer: "Even among humans there are boys who both love (like) each other. In the case of Tigatron and Airazor, they had been fighting together for a long time and as their emotions increased, their friendship turned to feelings of love. 'Transform', indeed!"

GoktimusPrime

16th January 2017, 09:15 PM

Yeah, I see what you're saying about the native viewers, I don't know what gay representation was like on Japanese TV in the 90s, (apart from Haruka and Michiru in Sailor Moon), so it might have been surprising then.
IMO not really great. Beast Wars Second's Starscream was a very stereotypical effeminately camp archetype, and while never stated to be gay, basically played on all the stereotypes. These included:
* The use of feminine language features, such as 「行くわよ、BB!] ("Ikuwayo, BB!" = 'Let's go, BB!'); note the use of the feminine particle "wa."
* Putting his hand up to his face when he laughs. In Japan, women are expected to cover their mouths when they laugh as this is considered to be ladylike behaviour. For a woman to laugh without covering her mouth would be the equivalent of seeing a woman manspreading (http://media.breitbart.com/media/2014/12/d2fe55c0-0010-0132-0755-0eae5eefacd9.jpg).
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/bw_starscream_laughing_zpssqx6oqaa.jpg

So seeing Airazor and Tigatron becoming the first male-male Conjunx Endurae in Japanese canon was most surprising indeed. A pleasant surprise, but a surprise for sure.