Transformers Generation 1 Soundtrack

[UltraMarginal]

Over the years there has been interest in a soundtrack/score of the original G1 TV Series.

People have started kickstarters (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342576182/grimbots-soundtrack-restoration)to fund software to help them remove vox and foley from video audio.
From what I can tell, they're doing a fine job and have now finished season 2.

Ages ago, there was an article (https://www.allspark.com/2016/04/robert-j-walsh-and-sony-records-to-release-original-transformers-g1-musical-scores/) by the allspark to say that Robert J Walsh was remastering a whole bunch of musical scores of old 80's cartoon properties.
Transformers, Jem and the Holograms, G.I. Joe and My little Pony to name a few.

based on the article this should have been out by now. Yesterday I got curious and I emailed Mr Walsh and this was his response:


The album is done. Sony is releasing 3rd Quarter 2017 on CD and vinyl.

I only asked about Transformers and it's not clear if the album is just transformers or if it is a compilation of all the properties in one album. I have asked him if he'd like to release any further details.

I'm going to assume it's just transformers and here's hoping the album is a couple discs worth at least. I'm excited. :D

[griffin]

Looks like the Grimbots project is now complete (http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/11/20/transformers-generation-1-season-3-soundtrack-restoration-complete-353856), with all 98 original series episodes done, and the third season is now available for download as a zip file (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342576182/grimbots-soundtrack-restoration/posts/2048993).
I'm guessing that links to the first two seasons music is on there as well, in one of the other updates/news postings.

[DELTAprime]

Just had a look through the downloads for all 3 season. It looks like he only has unique tracks for each episode so there doesn't seem to be duplicates for reused music. I wonder if there is anything unique in season 4 he could still need to do for this to be considered complete?

Here are the links to the post for each seasons download.


Season 1 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342576182/grimbots-soundtrack-restoration/posts/1672929)

Season 2 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342576182/grimbots-soundtrack-restoration/posts/1936158)

Season 3 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342576182/grimbots-soundtrack-restoration/posts/2048993)

[griffin]

Hmmm... TFW noted (or assumed) that it was complete, covering all 98 episodes.

I couldn't see if the project website itself says if it is completed, but if it is, maybe as you say, Rebirth didn't have any new/unique music.

[UltraMarginal]

I'm listening to season 2 at work today, it's a pretty impressive effort.

I contacted Mr Walsh again and asked him if he knew anything further, he suggested I call Sony Music in New York. so I've Tweeted them, I guess we'll see if that goes anywhere. I'm surprised it hasn't been released yet given how long it is now since he confirmed that it was finished.

[griffin]

Looks like the Rebirth episodes weren't already included, as they have now been released as well (http://www.thetfcog.com/news/g1-soundtrack-season-4-complete.html).

[mikeyc7m]

my nbn is too shitty to download this before i fall asleep

[DELTAprime]

Just got around to looking at what's in the download. There apparently was a single new piece of music in season 4, everything else is bonus material.

[philby]

A vinyl soundtrack was mentioned at Toyfair, I wonder if it is this thing or something else?

[griffin]

A vinyl soundtrack was mentioned at Toyfair, I wonder if it is this thing or something else?

There was one on display in the Toyfair exhibit, but I don't think it has anything to do with this unlicensed production, as it only had a small selection of tracks listed on the case.
I didn't see anything mentioned about it yet, but if it is being done by the same people who did the 1986 Movie soundtrack LP, we should hear something official about it.

[UltraMarginal]

That might be it. hopefully it comes out on CD also. I like the vinyl stuff, it looks good but I don't have a record player.

I guess I'll get around to calling Sony Music in New York at some point.

[UltraMarginal]

here it comes (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/04/transformers-g1-official-soundtrack-promo-clip-360453)!!

At this stage they are only talking about Vinyl, which is of no use to me, except I have a sterling collection of Transformers vinyl already and this will go with it extremely well. To bad I don't have a record player. :D

The Track listing (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/original-generation-1-score-to-be-released.1064858/page-12#post-15511133) isn't as comprehensive as the remastering done in that kickstarter, but I expect it is a good spread of the main themes from the show.

I've looked at the 'Enjoy the ride' website and it seems that shipping for a few records is exactly the same. I'll be putting up a group order for this in the sales area directly.

I'm getting this regardless, I hope they release it on CD sooner rather than later as well.

[philby]

You better get one then to listen to them lol.
You can add these too!

https://www.dj4dj.co.uk/products/transformers-autobots-decepticons-black-white-felt-slipmats

[UltraMarginal]

You better get one then to listen to them lol.
You can add these too!

https://www.dj4dj.co.uk/products/transformers-autobots-decepticons-black-white-felt-slipmats

That's pretty sweet!
All the albums I have at the moment are speacial editions that are fancy enough to end up in frames when I have the space. I think that's the long term goal. At the moment I have all of them in CD form as well.

[Magnus]

Sadly, there are currently no indications that there will be a CD or digital release:


Sorry but we are a vinyl label in most cases and in turn we have no plans of either a digital or cd release for this album

The tweet from Enjoy the Ride (https://twitter.com/EnjoytherideRES/status/971083850444046341) is referenced in this TFW2005 article. (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/06/transformers-g1-soundtrack-vinyl-release-details-360572)

[philby]

I grabbed a bumblebee themed one from ThinkGeek. The Optimus and Megatron ones sold out in about 5 minutes.

[ZoonMaster5000]

I grabbed a bumblebee themed one from ThinkGeek. The Optimus and Megatron ones sold out in about 5 minutes.

You should of joined our group buy, I managed to secure 4 op’s and 2 megs.
I did notice the bumblebee one took a lot longer to sell

[UltraMarginal]

For those who missed out, there's good news (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/12/transformers-g1-score-vinyl-repress-confirmed-360818), a repressing has been approved. no solid timeline yet but it's happening.

I have a feeling there were execs somewhere who were unsure if this was going to be a thing.

no word yet on CD or digital

[philby]

You should of joined our group buy, I managed to secure 4 op’s and 2 megs.
I did notice the bumblebee one took a lot longer to sell

It's ok I wasn't super interested in any particular colour, kinda forgot about it too! More of a "wake up, see Instagram comments, impulse buy before they all run out" sort of thing 😂

[kup]

For those who missed out, there's good news (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/12/transformers-g1-score-vinyl-repress-confirmed-360818), a repressing has been approved. no solid timeline yet but it's happening.

I have a feeling there were execs somewhere who were unsure if this was going to be a thing.

no word yet on CD or digital

If it gets re-release I will be up for it on LP. I will settle for CD but much prefer LP.

[griffin]

For those who missed out, there's good news (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/12/transformers-g1-score-vinyl-repress-confirmed-360818), a repressing has been approved. no solid timeline yet but it's happening.

I have a feeling there were execs somewhere who were unsure if this was going to be a thing.

no word yet on CD or digital


An image of the repress edition (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/06/30/transformers-g1-score-vinyl-repress-color-sample-366416) has been released by the producer of the vinyl record of the soundtrack.


(still no sign of a CD or digital release, so it continues to be a sadistic tease for most of us who can't play these)

[UltraMarginal]

Why they aren't releasing a CD is beyond me. I have a mate with a turntable who said I could borrow it to 'rip' the album, but it's away in storage and I don't have a timeline as to when I'll actually be able to borrow it.

[bowspearer]

Why they aren't releasing a CD is beyond me. I have a mate with a turntable who said I could borrow it to 'rip' the album, but it's away in storage and I don't have a timeline as to when I'll actually be able to borrow it.

Possibly because the optimum sound quality of vynil is superior to that of CDs.

[Magnus]

Possibly because the optimum sound quality of vynil is superior to that of CDs.

That's not a reason to not make CDs, even a limited number. While audiophiles may like vinyl, it's very much a niche product. Hasbro could be missing out on reaching a wider audience because far more people have CD players than turntables.

La La Land records have done limited pressings of CD scores - only a few thousand units in some cases. Surely they'd be down with a limited release of this score.

[1AZRAEL1]

Optimum shmoptimum. I go for convenience. Whilst it may be cool to own on vinyl, makes no sense to not release through other mediums

[bowspearer]

That's not a reason to not make CDs, even a limited number. While audiophiles may like vinyl, it's very much a niche product. Hasbro could be missing out on reaching a wider audience because far more people have CD players than turntables.

La La Land records have done limited pressings of CD scores - only a few thousand units in some cases. Surely they'd be down with a limited release of this score.

Depends on how they're approaching this. It could very well be that the intention is to produce the highest fidelity production of this as something which is targeted to audiophiles. If that's the case, then they could argue that being true to the philosophy to this launch by keeping it vinyl only.

There are also a couple of counter-arguments against them missing out by not releasing it on CD.

Firstly, if this were even 5 years ago when vinyl was only just starting to make a comeback and turntables were in short supply on the market, you'd have a valid argument about limited playability, however these days, turntables have become quite affordable. In fact these days they're the price of a blu-ray player (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/welling/welling-f700-stereo-turntable/74743/) at the bottom end of the market, meaning that there simply aren't the reasons to not own a turntable that there were even 5 years ago.

Secondly, are their sales even hurting if you discount this argument? Clearly not. This is now on it's third repressing and you even have people like Ultra Marginal buying this when they don't even own a turntable.

Thirdly, I'd question what the original source for those CD releases was. If it was a digital source then there would literally be no difference between the optimum quality of a vinyl release and a CD release due to quantisation errors existing in both cases. Alternately, maybe the CD releases simply weren't bringing in enough revenue to justify them, or the company felt they hurt its image. That's something that only they can answer.

In short, while people with less discerning ears might want a CD version and perceive no difference between the audio quality of vinyl and CD (and hey, more power to them), they're clearly a negligible factor in the sales performance of this release.


Optimum shmoptimum. I go for convenience. Whilst it may be cool to own on vinyl, makes no sense to not release through other mediums

By that logic, should Bentley release a $20,000 car because it's more convenient for people and would generate more sales volume - with no regard for the effect that would have on the brand image it is cultivating for itself?

And yes, when we're talking about a company dedicating itself to the audiophile market and producing the highest fidelity audio recordings possible in their releases, then that is an entirely fair and accurate analogy to draw.

[philby]

You can go round in circles about sound quality but I am 99% sure that just being on vinyl by itself doesn't make anything "better", there are other factors involved.

[bowspearer]

You can go round in circles about sound quality but I am 99% sure that just being on vinyl by itself doesn't make anything "better", there are other factors involved.

It's not going around in circles. It is an unassailable fact that at optimum levels (ie a pure analog source), vinyl produces a less degraded audio copy than a CD does. Based on your response, I'm going to guess that you're not at all familiar with quantisation, or the process by which an analog signal is converted to a digital one.

Time for a science lesson.

While the quals are about 15 years old now, I'm going to put on my Advanced Diploma in Electrical Technology hat here and explain quantisation to people who might not be familiar with it.

For the sake of simplicity, let's take a sine wave (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Simple_sine_wave.svg) (picture linked) as it's not only the most dimple explanation of this, but a representation of a pure audio single tone. For example, in recent years, the A above Middle C has a frequency of 440Hz (it used to be 432Hz but that's a story for another time).

You'll notice the sine wave is a pure curve, with no defects or anomalies to it. If I were to take a pure analog read of that sine wave, I would reproduce it exactly as it was. The reason for it is that I would in essence, be reading it using infinitesimally small small intervals - small enough that I replicated the curve exactly as it was.

However that's not how digital transfers work.

Take voice for example. Voice is typically sampled using an 8-bit sampler. That 8-bit sampler will give you the option of 2^8 intervals, or 256 interval points. In other words, if half of the crest of that crest (ie the top of the waveform) were a hill, imagine that someone cut 64 steps into that hill to climb up it with, like the way some mountains are cut out to lay down roads through them. What you have left is certainly audible and should be intelligible (ie you can make out what it meant to be), but now it has distortion and it's no longer in its purest state. That's just a single tone. The moment the waveform becomes more complex, the distortion gets worse.

Certainly there are ways to minimise that distortion. As a golden rule, you typically sample at twice the frequency of what you're sampling - hence why voice is typically sampled at 8kHz and audio is sampled at 44.1kHz.

Likewise, if your sampler uses a larger bitrate per sample (for example, CDs use 16-bit samples, while voice uses 8-bit samples), that means an (2^x-2^y) increase in the number of intervals used. However metaphorically speaking, you will always be cutting into that waveform and distorting and degrading it.

Certainly, everyone's ears have a difference sensitivity and therefore some listeners are going to perceive a difference to differing degrees to others and in some cases, not at all. From that perspective, an argument can be made that as long as the listener is enjoying it that's what matters and it's a fair argument.

However it is an undisputed fact that when being transferred from an optimal analog source, that an optimal digital transfer's audio quality is significantly inferior to that of an optimal analog transfer's audio quality.

[1AZRAEL1]

I would buy a cd coz I don't particularly care to have the best of the best of the best. I don't have a record player and have no desire to own one. Yes I have some vinyls, but I bought them as a massive fan of the band. But I'll never play them. Just the same as I have a demo cassette tape of another band I really like, but I won't play it either, partly coz I don't own a cassette player and no desire to own one, but one day I will rip it so I can listen to it on my ipod.

[1AZRAEL1]

Personally, I can't see a problem with releasing it in other mediums, or how it would affect their brand. All it does is limit who will buy it, so I guess I just have to miss out on it

[bowspearer]

Personally, I can't see a problem with releasing it in other mediums, or how it would affect their brand. All it does is limit who will buy it, so I guess I just have to miss out on it

Depends on what kind of am image you're going for as a company. If these guys are trying to paint themselves as a brand for audiophiles, then from a brand image perspective, releasing stuff on CD unless it's a digital source to begin with, makes about as much sense as Bentley releasing a $20,000 sedan.

[UltraMarginal]

Possibly because the optimum sound quality of vynil is superior to that of CDs.

that isn't really the case. While your discussion about the effects of sampling are correct factually, ie, there must be some loss due to the digital stepping, this article below gives a pretty good description of the physical mechanisms of the record and the CD.

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/19/5626058/vinyls-great-but-its-not-better-than-cds

The article contains this YouTube video that goes into it in even greater depth.

https://youtu.be/v0bMI2JB-vY

The warm sound heard on a record is a result of some of the 'loss in signal/fidelity' as a result of the physical mechanism of the medium. It's still a personal preference as to which someone would prefer to listen to, but CD's pressed from a lossless recording are a better representation of the original sound.

Also consider that in re-mastering this music it would have been converted to a digital recording, becoming sampled. Pressing this sampled recording onto a Vinyl instead of a CD isn't going to restore the data lost by sampling


That's not a reason to not make CDs, even a limited number. While audiophiles may like vinyl, it's very much a niche product. Hasbro could be missing out on reaching a wider audience because far more people have CD players than turntables.

La La Land records have done limited pressings of CD scores - only a few thousand units in some cases. Surely they'd be down with a limited release of this score.

La La Land make some great stuff!!
I've purchased the vinyls to frame, not listen to. I have a mate who has an old DJ deck he said I could borrow to rip the record, but it's in storage at the moment and I have no idea when I'll have that opportunity. I certainly don't have the real estate in my apartment to keep a record player, so regardless of how cheap one might be, I'm not about to clutter up our space even more by buying one of those.

If they produced a run of the Album as a CD I'd buy it in a blink.

[bowspearer]

that isn't really the case. While your discussion about the effects of sampling are correct factually, ie, there must be some loss due to the digital stepping, this article below gives a pretty good description of the physical mechanisms of the record and the CD.

While your argument did have validity and still does on the lower end of the turntable market, the article fails to take into account the recent advent of the laser turntable.

The one flaw noted with laser turntables is that they pick up everything, which makes listening to records with even the slightest scratch an issue and where there's a fair amount of damage, a nightmare.

However if a minty fresh LP were to be played without blemishes, then alot of the technical limitations on stylus based turntables completely vanish, meaning that you could press the high notes that normally cause issues with styluses if you were pressing an LP for a laser turntable. Likewise if things went down this path, then a justification could be made for an album being on 2 LPs rather than the standard one for example.

Of course the downside here is that laser turntables aren't widespread as it stands - being hand made for the most part and costing a hefty $6,000 USD minimum last I checked.

However it does point to an interesting future once laser turntables become widespread in terms of what is possible and how pressing vinyls is approached in the future.


The warm sound heard on a record is a result of some of the 'loss in signal/fidelity' as a result of the physical mechanism of the medium. It's still a personal preference as to which someone would prefer to listen to, but CD's pressed from a lossless recording are a better representation of the original sound.

Also consider that in re-mastering this music it would have been converted to a digital recording, becoming sampled. Pressing this sampled recording onto a Vinyl instead of a CD isn't going to restore the data lost by sampling

This is why I said:


However it is an undisputed fact that when being transferred from an optimal analog source, that an optimal digital transfer's audio quality is significantly inferior to that of an optimal analog transfer's audio quality.

The key word there being "optimal" on both ends of the transfer. As you've rightly pointed out, once you operate from a quantised sources, there's no way to get back the lost information.

[griffin]

Back on topic.


The re-press has been officially announced with the following details (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/07/03/transformers-g1-score-vinyl-repress-full-reveal-new-variants-release-date-366585)....


Release date of July 6th, Midday (US time) for US$25 at the Enjoy The Records website. (https://enjoytheriderecords.com/products/hasbro-studios-presents-80s-tv-classics-music-from-the-transformers)
Three types - Starscream, Optimus, Megatron... with 750 of each being produced.

[Magnus]

Depends on how they're approaching this. It could very well be that the intention is to produce the highest fidelity production of this as something which is targeted to audiophiles. If that's the case, then they could argue that being true to the philosophy to this launch by keeping it vinyl only.

There are also a couple of counter-arguments against them missing out by not releasing it on CD.

Firstly, if this were even 5 years ago when vinyl was only just starting to make a comeback and turntables were in short supply on the market, you'd have a valid argument about limited playability, however these days, turntables have become quite affordable. In fact these days they're the price of a blu-ray player (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/welling/welling-f700-stereo-turntable/74743/) at the bottom end of the market, meaning that there simply aren't the reasons to not own a turntable that there were even 5 years ago.

Secondly, are their sales even hurting if you discount this argument? Clearly not. This is now on it's third repressing and you even have people like Ultra Marginal buying this when they don't even own a turntable.

Thirdly, I'd question what the original source for those CD releases was. If it was a digital source then there would literally be no difference between the optimum quality of a vinyl release and a CD release due to quantisation errors existing in both cases. Alternately, maybe the CD releases simply weren't bringing in enough revenue to justify them, or the company felt they hurt its image. That's something that only they can answer.

In short, while people with less discerning ears might want a CD version and perceive no difference between the audio quality of vinyl and CD (and hey, more power to them), they're clearly a negligible factor in the sales performance of this release.

At the risk of going back off-topic, the idea of creating a 'premium' product is the only reason I can think of for Hasbro not chasing greater volume by commissioning a run of CDs. The demand is clearly there, since the first 2000 units sold out and another run of 2250 is on its way, and again, far more people would have CD players than vinyl record players.

Enjoy the Ride say on their website that they specialise in vinyl re-releases 'of all genres'; Hasbro would have known that when they were looking for a record label to press the soundtrack for them.



La La Land make some great stuff!!
I've purchased the vinyls to frame, not listen to. I have a mate who has an old DJ deck he said I could borrow to rip the record, but it's in storage at the moment and I have no idea when I'll have that opportunity. I certainly don't have the real estate in my apartment to keep a record player, so regardless of how cheap one might be, I'm not about to clutter up our space even more by buying one of those.

If they produced a run of the Album as a CD I'd buy it in a blink.

I must admit, I'd have a hard time saying no if La La Land Records did a run. It's not as if they haven't done animated features before, seeing as they did the soundtracks for several Batman features, including the 1990s animated series, and He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. Given the way we've seen the vinyl selling, they could easily do a 5000 unit run and they wouldn't have to worry about large numbers of unsold stock.

[bowspearer]

At the risk of going back off-topic, the idea of creating a 'premium' product is the only reason I can think of for Hasbro not chasing greater volume by commissioning a run of CDs. The demand is clearly there, since the first 2000 units sold out and another run of 2250 is on its way, and again, far more people would have CD players than vinyl record players.

Enjoy the Ride say on their website that they specialise in vinyl re-releases 'of all genres'; Hasbro would have known that when they were looking for a record label to press the soundtrack for them.

I think there's more to it than just that. I imagine that Hasbro see the soundtrack as a very niche product. If we consider that fans make up 20-30% of their total market and that the G1 Cartoon and 1986 movie are more of a cult following based item compared to say, the live action movies, it's quite possible that Hasbro and Enjoy the Toons think that there isn't enough demand to support a mainstream release. Considering that Sony are a party in the production, the fact that this isn't being released under sony's main label, also suggests this is the case.

As such, it could be that Hasbro are deliberately creating scarcity to drive demand, ensuring that it's a success by gaming the market.


I must admit, I'd have a hard time saying no if La La Land Records did a run. It's not as if they haven't done animated features before, seeing as they did the soundtracks for several Batman features, including the 1990s animated series, and He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. Given the way we've seen the vinyl selling, they could easily do a 5000 unit run and they wouldn't have to worry about large numbers of unsold stock.

Two problems I see here. The first is that you'd automatically be dumping 3 times the amount of stock on the market and in doing so, destroying the sense of scarcity which then lowers demand, harming the success of the release. The other thing is, given that the company now pushes the "premuim audiophile vinyl" angle as a brand image, there's a change that this could be seen as a harmful PR move to the company.

[UltraMarginal]

I'm pretty sure Varese Sarabande (https://www.varesesarabande.com/pages/discography-tv-film-soundtracks) is a Sony Label, I actually originally expected this to come out through them.

[UltraMarginal]

So it looks like it's not such (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/07/04/transformers-g1-score-vinyl-repress-retail-exclusive-variants-366683)an exclusive repressing:

FYE (https://www.fye.com/robert-j.-walsh-and-johnny-douglas---transformers--music-from-the-80s-tv-series-exclusive-autobot-decepticon-split-colored-vinyl-fye.000000190758561417.html)are selling 1000

Thinkgeek (https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/kshi/?srp=18#tabs)have an unspecified number

The light in the attic website is a piece of hot garbage that won't display on my work computer but it doesn't matter, they are just a distributer selling through other outlets.

Enjoy the Ride with a total of 2250.

Even if Thinkgeek and light in the attic shared another 1000 copies between them that's over 4000 copies, plus the original 1500.

it's hardly an exclusive now, i'd wager that a 1000 pressing CD release would sell out in seconds if not minutes.


Maybe they're just waiting, milking the most they can out of this Vinyl version first.

[bowspearer]

I'm pretty sure Varese Sarabande (https://www.varesesarabande.com/pages/discography-tv-film-soundtracks) is a Sony Label, I actually originally expected this to come out through them.

I meant their main label, rather than a more obscure label that the average person wouldn't associate with them.


Maybe they're just waiting, milking the most they can out of this Vinyl version first.

You have to hand it to them - they've made it collectible with multiple versions and even then, no two versions are the same, something they make a point of. Even then they've marketed this through a niche label where releasing this on a CD could be seen as harming a carefully cultivated image.

In some ways, you have to marvel at that kind of diabolical marketing.