Japanese release of POTP toys from May 2018

[DELTAprime]

Not sure how much stock to put in this as TT normally don't use the same branding on CHUG as Hasbro, but apparently TT is releasing Power of the Primes in May.


PP-01 Micronus, 800 Yen
PP-02 Liege Maximo, 800 Yen
PP-03 Vector Prime, 800 Yen
PP-04 Dinobot Slash, 1500 Yen
PP-05 Wind Charger, 1500 Yen
PP-06 Beach comber, 1500 Yen
PP-07 Autobot Jazz, 2800 Yen
PP-08 Rodimus Prime, 7000 Yen
PP-09 Optimus Prime, 7000 Yen

http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/12/01/release-info-takara-transformers-power-primes-series-354551

[griffin]

For those who wait to see how TakaraTomy alter or improve the Hasbro Generations toys, the Japanese versions of the Power of the Primes toys will start coming out from May 2018 (http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/12/01/release-info-takara-transformers-power-primes-series-354551) - a six month delay from the global release of Hasbro's versions.
But we might have to wait a few more months to find out if the Japanese versions are different in any way, or just a straight release of the Hasbro versions (like they did with the Movie toys).

The first assortment in that month has nine toys, from wave 1 of Hasbro's toys...




PP-01 Micronus, 800 Yen (Prime-Master)

PP-02 Liege Maximo, 800 Yen (Prime-Master)
PP-03 Vector Prime, 800 Yen (Prime-Master)
PP-04 Dinobot Slash, 1500 Yen (Legends)
PP-05 Wind Charger, 1500 Yen (Legends)
PP-06 Beach comber, 1500 Yen (Legends)
PP-07 Autobot Jazz, 2800 Yen (Deluxe)
PP-08 Rodimus Prime, 7000 Yen (Leader)
PP-09 Optimus Prime, 7000 Yen (Leader)



Interestingly, there are no Voyagers in the first month in Japan, and only one Deluxe... but we might expect that the ones that are part of a POTP combiner team (Dinobots, Terrorcons, Fembots), will be released with the Deluxe and Legends toys of that team.

[FruitBuyer]

Yep, I'm expecting the combiner teams to get similar releases to Unite Warriors, which is why I'll be holding off from getting the Hasbro releases.

[ampoldj]

Yep, I'm expecting the combiner teams to get similar releases to Unite Warriors, which is why I'll be holding off from getting the Hasbro releases.

Hope they just continue the UW series :rolleyes:

[DELTAprime]

Yeah posted this the other day in the rumours thread. I'm not going to be entirely convinced this is accurate until we see something out of Takara. They normally, but not 100% of the time, go with a different name than Hasbro for their lines so using POTP seems a little unlikely, though not impossible. Transformers Prime and the Takara Generations lines are the only ones in recent years I can think of that are the same as name as the Hasbro line.

Also if they were continuing UW wouldn't Jazz be part of a set? I thought he was a combiner also.

[Paulbot]

Photos appearing (https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/stock-images-of-takara-tomy-transformers-power-of-the-prime-pp01-to-pp09/40231/)

[griffin]

Being so early these might just be Hasbro images as stand ins, which they've done before. It even looks like Jazz still has the Trump slogan on the side.
There is still a chance that the decos might change for the JP release... but it is odd for them to not have it in their Legends line as there will be similar toys and redecos from CW and TR.


Yeah posted this the other day

Sorry... I forgot about your post until later in the day and then forgot to fix it up when I got home.
I'll fix it tonight.

[bowspearer]

I don't think these are stand ins. Something caught my eye with the photos for Micronus alt mode.

This is the Hasbro stock image:

http://news.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2017/09/Cloudburst-3.jpg


And this is the Japanese stock image:
http://hobby.dengeki.com/ss/hobby/uploads/2017/12/e32b529876ba9d4cc3c1f13940ba9779-440x330.jpg

Note that the Hasbro version is a light jade colour while the Takara version is more of an aluminum.

It's possible this is just a lighting angle thing, but it does suggest that we are seeing the real deal.

[DELTAprime]

^Hasbro image is a CG render, Takara image is an actual physical item. There is quite often a difference between Hasbro's CG and Hasbro's finished product.

Also please don't deep link to TFW or any other site that's not a image host like imgur.

[griffin]

Fixed now... the two topics/posts are merged.

[Holdobot]

BBTS have listed both leader class wave 1 figures. Since I haven’t got the email announcement from them, I thought I would get the word out. Both at $64.95 with ETA in May.

[Omega Metro]

Yeah they have been there a few weeks now as I preordered them. These are the Takara Tomy ones though. I’ve been waiting for the Hasbro versions to come up but nothing as yet.

[griffin]

Yeah they have been there a few weeks now as I preordered them. These are the Takara Tomy ones though. I’ve been waiting for the Hasbro versions to come up but nothing as yet.

That would explain why they are for May instead of DEC/JAN like the rest of wave 1.

[Holdobot]

Woah, didn’t realise was Takara release. I thought it was strange that has PP08 etc in description. $64.95 that’s pretty decent for a Takara release.

[Omega Metro]

Woah, didn’t realise was Takara release. $64.95 that’s pretty decent for a Takara release.

They look exactly the same as the Hasbro version unfortunately. (from what I have seen anyway)

[DELTAprime]

They look exactly the same as the Hasbro version unfortunately. (from what I have seen anyway)

Yeah they could just be placeholder images but if they don't show off some differences I'll just grab the Hasbro version locally.

[griffin]

I hope they are placeholder images.
Or maybe they saw that the Movie toys were able to sell out (or sell quite well) in Japan without wasting any time or money altering them... so might not do it as much in future. Considering how well they were altering the Legends toys, with extra parts and remoulding on most of them, it would be a shame if they stop doing that, as it gives fans options for most toys.

On the other hand... one main reason why TakaraTomy usually adds colours or parts is because the Hasbro versions cut back on everything to make them cheaper/more profitable. So if the Hasbro versions are done "perfectly" with their colours and accessories, there wouldn't be any need for TakaraTomy to adjust them, as there would be nothing to fix on them.

[DELTAprime]

So if the Hasbro versions are done "perfectly" with their colours and accessories, there wouldn't be any need for TakaraTomy to adjust them, as there would be nothing to fix on them.

Ah but you will always have the argument of toy accurate vs cartoon accurate deco. Airing on the side of cartoon accuracy is the big reason I normally go with Takara. If it switched and Hasbro did cartoon accurate and Takara did toy accurate I'd buy Hasbro.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Takara haven't really touched many of the movie lines though as far as I've noticed.

Its wierd here in Japan. Transformers have such a small space in the toy section... I wonder if they are selling well or just not getting much stock in. I saw my first legends figires on shelf a couple of weeks ago since i found Harhead at the start.

I'm curious to see how they'll market potp here and if they're giving up or focussing on other lines.

As for the has v tt colouring debate, I'll personally choose which ever makes a better looking toy. Toy vs cartoon look be damned.

[Paulbot]

Ah but you will always have the argument of toy accurate vs cartoon accurate deco. Airing on the side of cartoon accuracy is the big reason I normally go with Takara. If it switched and Hasbro did cartoon accurate and Takara did toy accurate I'd buy Hasbro.

I'm still unhappy with Hasbro's cartoon accurate POTP Swoop. The one time they don't do toy accurate!? The whole Dinobot team, including newbie Slash, will have a common colour theme apart from Diaclone colours Swoop.

[FruitBuyer]

Takara haven't really touched many of the movie lines though as far as I've noticed.

Its wierd here in Japan. Transformers have such a small space in the toy section... I wonder if they are selling well or just not getting much stock in. I saw my first legends figires on shelf a couple of weeks ago since i found Harhead at the start.

I'm curious to see how they'll market potp here and if they're giving up or focussing on other lines.

As for the has v tt colouring debate, I'll personally choose which ever makes a better looking toy. Toy vs cartoon look be damned.

How dare you be reasonable and not instantaly GEEWUN TOON!

[DELTAprime]

Bad news.

An upcoming issue of Figure King apparently says that Takara's POTP toys are going to be identical to Hasbro's to facilitate "Unifying the World Brands".

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/takaras-power-of-the-primes-toys-confirmed-as-identical-to-hasbros-to-unifying-the-world-brands/40371/

[ZoonMaster5000]

Bad news.

An upcoming issue of Figure King apparently says that Takara's POTP toys are going to be identical to Hasbro's to facilitate "Unifying the World Brands".

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/takaras-power-of-the-primes-toys-confirmed-as-identical-to-hasbros-to-unifying-the-world-brands/40371/

Yay! I wonder what hope we have for the upcoming combiners? Will they continue the unite-warrior line with animation colour schemes or will they unify the world and be lazy and just re-brand hasbro's work?

[Ploughmans Lunch]

Yay! I wonder what hope we have for the upcoming combiners? Will they continue the unite-warrior line with animation colour schemes or will they unify the world and be lazy and just re-brand hasbro's work?

I reckon there'd be a good chance for POTP combiners being under the UW banner since the Dinobots/Terrorcons/Lady Autobots aren't in the lineup for Japanese POTP (or POP? You tell me).

Atleast I hope so because I quite liked UW (and correct me if I'm wrong, but they sold pretty reasonably well?).

Also I imagine this will be a gradual change and not an absolute for TF going forward - it's very unlikely that TT would just jump ship to Hasbro's MP numbering (or vice-versa).

Again plz correct me if I'm wrong.

[DELTAprime]

Yay!

Is that sarcasm? I'm really disappointed. It gives you zero choice as to what deco you get.

[ZoonMaster5000]

Is that sarcasm? I'm really disappointed. It gives you zero choice as to what deco you get.

Trust me the sarcasm is oozing out everywhere! While I’m happy to give my wallet a slight breather I’m also pretty disappointed tt have decided to just sit back and take hasbro’s handy work and shove it in a premium box (maybe). I’m really looking forward to continuation of the combiners and hopefully they stick with the high end trend.

[griffin]

This is really disappointing. Now we won't have alternative deco/accessory options, if the Hasbro versions are disappointing. (as we already saw with the Movie toyline, with the same toys in the same packaging released in Japan)

There were rumours that Hasbro wanted to acquire TakaraTomy (which would be easy to do at the moment, while TT sales are dropping), so maybe instead, Hasbro are developing a closer partnership first, forcing TT to release the same product, just to prevent Western collectors from buying Japanese versions (because they would then be unlikely to buy the Hasbro versions).

This will surely mean a lot less unique redecos and remoulds from Japan... or we will see a lot more TakaraTomyMall exclusives and Ehobby exclusives.
Fans in HK and Asia will also be upset over this, as Hasbro HK would release the Japanese Transformers to Asia... but now there won't be any point, as there won't be any unique General Release ones anymore.

Just look at the general release 2017 TT toys that wouldn't have happened if this policy had started at the beginning of this year...

- LG-41 - Leo Prime (Lio Convoy redeco of Alpha Trion)
- LG-42 -Godbomber (new)
- LG-45 - Targetmaster Hot Rodimus (remould Hotrod w/ new Targetmaster)
- LG-46 - Targetmaster Char (remould Kup w/ new Targetmaster)
- LG-49 - Targetmaster Triggerhappy (minor redeco w/ new Targetmaster)
- LG-51 - Doublecross (minor redeco Twinferno, w/ Haywire gun for Blurr)
- LG-52 - Targetmaster Misfire (minor redeco w/ new Targetmaster)
- LG-55 - Targetmaster Slugslinger (minor redeco w/ new Targetmaster gun)
- TLK-15 - Calibur Optimus Prime (remould TF4 AD-31 w/ sword, new shield & new axe - Japan exclusive)

Not as many as previous years, as the Adventure line ended a year ago, while Hasbro had still been releasing RID, and before the fifth movie, most of their Movie toys would have had extra colours and/or accessories.

[DELTAprime]

Yeah I really love the Targetmasters. I just wish I got a complete set of Rebirth Targetmasters, but alas we are missing Scourge's partner from the set. (note I'm including Henkei Cyclonus to complete the set)

Now that Hasbro has ruined Takara's CHUG I hope they don't touch MPs.

[bowspearer]

There were rumours that Hasbro wanted to acquire TakaraTomy (which would be easy to do at the moment, while TT sales are dropping), so maybe instead, Hasbro are developing a closer partnership first, forcing TT to release the same product, just to prevent Western collectors from buying Japanese versions (because they would then be unlikely to buy the Hasbro versions).

Sadly there are far too many Western collectors who will still buy a crappy product because "it's better than nothing". If Western fans were more merciless in their standards, it could have backfired spectacularly on Hasbro if that is what they're doing.

[Bidoofdude]

Sadly there are far too many Western collectors who will still buy a crappy product because "it's better than nothing". If Western fans were more merciless in their standards, it could have backfired spectacularly on Hasbro if that is what they're doing.

I’m sure plenty of people would opt out of getting the Hasbro deco altogether if they cared that much about cartoon accuracy.

It is really dissappointing, and a shady move (someone should ask someone from Hasbro at the next given opportunity) on Hasbro’s part.

Hopefully UW stays the same as it was before, as I am holding out for cartoon accurate dinobots that I’m praying are revealed soon.

[bowspearer]

I’m sure plenty of people would opt out of getting the Hasbro deco altogether if they cared that much about cartoon accuracy.

It isn't just cartoon accuracy. Case in point, take a look at the paint app differences on the Titanmasters with Hasbro vs Takara as just one example.

[Bidoofdude]

It isn't just cartoon accuracy. Case in point, take a look at the paint app differences on the Titanmasters with Hasbro vs Takara as just one example.

I wouldn’t rush to go slamming Hasbro’s products, as for the most part the differences between the two are a matter of personal taste, while quality is not the issue at hand. Many (including myself on many occassions) have favoured the Hasbro deco over the Takara (which although generally more appealing can easily fall flat), but that doesn’t even matter anymore. The lack of options is probably the most alarming part, without any kind of Has vs Tak fire heating up too quickly amongst fans.

[Other]

Why are you all assuming this is something Hasbro is forcing on TT and not TT's beancounters realising they can save a lot of money by importing. Their TLK releases were the same as the Hasbro figures and if those sold in the same ballpark as other movie toys it gives them great incentive to try with their other main line

[bowspearer]

I wouldn’t rush to go slamming Hasbro’s products, as for the most part the differences between the two are a matter of personal taste, while quality is not the issue at hand. Many (including myself on many occassions) have favoured the Hasbro deco over the Takara (which although generally more appealing can easily fall flat), but that doesn’t even matter anymore. The lack of options is probably the most alarming part, without any kind of Has vs Tak fire heating up too quickly amongst fans.

In some cases, certainly it comes down to different choices, but it's not that simple.

The fact is that there is a clear quality difference between Hasbro and Takara on several ground.

Take the Titanmasters for example. There aren't just different deco choices at play, the Titanmasters themselves in robot mode are fully painted (sometimes with as many as 5 paint apps on the titanmaster robot mode - eg Broadside) as compared to, in some cases, completely unpainted and moulded plastic on the Hasbro version (and yes I'm talking about the little guys, not the transector bodies). In fact it was the reason I only bought Hasbro releases of Titanmaster figures where there wasn't a Takara release.

Likewise, look at Hasbro vs Takara with Combiner Wars. It was Takara who gave us a proper Blast-Off and Groove, just as it was Takara who, even though they were recolours, gave is Slingshot and Wildrider. While the later three did see a Hasbro release, the Blast Off mould, to my knowledge, has yet to show up as a Hasbro release.

Certainly, sometimes there are going to be mere deco difference, however you can't deny that in some cases, the Hasbro product is simply inferior to the Takara product because Takara knows collectors will notice the little extras, while Hasbro is convinced that kids couldn't care less about them.

[bowspearer]

Why are you all assuming this is something Hasbro is forcing on TT and not TT's beancounters realising they can save a lot of money by importing. Their TLK releases were the same as the Hasbro figures and if those sold in the same ballpark as other movie toys it gives them great incentive to try with their other main line

Because it makes no sense for TT financially. Hasbro's bread and butter are kids; Takara's bread and butter are adult collectors. Takara would be well aware, by way of how much HLJ and other exporters buy from them, how a significant portion of Hasbro's adult collector's market would rather import than buy local because of things like new moulds and extra paint apps which Takara does and Hasbro doesn't.

Anyone applying even an ounce of common sense will know that that market will be lost if there is no point of difference, which simply isn't smart business sense.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Because it makes no sense for TT financially. Hasbro's bread and butter are kids; Takara's bread and butter are adult collectors. Takara would be well aware, by way of how much HLJ and other exporters buy from them, how a significant portion of Hasbro's adult collector's market would rather import than buy local because of things like new moulds and extra paint apps which Takara does and Hasbro doesn't.

Anyone applying even an ounce of common sense will know that that market will be lost if there is no point of difference, which simply isn't smart business sense.Um, not exactly...TT in Japan still sell mostly to kids, especially mainline stuff. Their adult/'collector' domestic market is a bigger proportion/percentage, sure, but - disappointingly - TFs are still a pretty niche hobby for adults - far from TTs 'bread and butter'. It's partially why there tend to be more 'kids-line'-type TFs in stores, eg. plenty of 'Adventure' (that monster-y/awful 3-member combiner toyline they did instead of Beast Hunters) over the Legends stuff, etc etc. AFAIK even with gaijin like us ordering Japanese TFs it's still a pretty small part of their market share.

If I had to guess, I'd put it down to a cost-cutting measure from the overall TF brand - TT and hasbro TFs are apparently made in the same factories, so by using the same toys (barring the high-end stuff like MP) they can make it all a lot more streamlined, and thus cheaper. Especially since TT does tend to do the more expensive versions, i.e. extra paint apps etc. IIRC toy sales in general in Japan have been slowing down a bit in recent years, especially those targeted at 'older' kids like TFs. Trading cards are still pretty popular, model-building/assemble-your-own type toys still have decent sales (eg. Gundam), and young kids toys still sell pretty well, but the portable gaming market - and especially smartphone/tablet games - have hit most other 'traditional' toy sales pretty hard IIRC.

Anyway, my Japanese reading/writing was never all that great to begin with (bloody kanji :( ), so...do we have any confirmation from the latest Figure King scans about whether this is a 'new normal', and/or how widespread it's likely to be @Nihongo-Jouzu peeps?
I'm sort of interested to know if that new Titan Class Predaking will get special treatment or not...though it's probably too early for news of that one to be out.

[bowspearer]

IIRC toy sales in general in Japan have been slowing down a bit in recent years, especially those targeted at 'older' kids like TFs.

On one hand this makes sense, yet on the other hand, with the higher end and pricepoint MP figures and Diaclone 2.0 releases we're getting, it doesn't fit that. Why would such projects even be commissioned if the returns simply weren't there?

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

On one hand this makes sense, yet on the other hand, with the higher end and pricepoint MP figures and Diaclone 2.0 releases we're getting, it doesn't fit that. Why would such projects even be commissioned if the returns simply weren't there?MP and Diaclone V.2 are specifically collector-focused, is the short answer.:) The returns are there, but they're smaller/more limited runs that sell at premium prices and are less widespread/easily available. Niche VS mainstream target markets, in other words.
Most electronics stores - which are the main places where they sell mainline TFs, much like we have them in Target/KMart-type stores here - didn't stock anything other than the current kiddie and/or Movie line at the time, though you could place orders for MPs at some of the the stores IIRC. I lived in Osaka for 5 years, and if I wanted the latest 'kiddie' and/or Movie-line stuff it was easy, for Legends/CHUG stuff I had to go hunting a bit more and would have reasonable odds of success depending upon what I was chasing (eg. Legends Arcee sold out right away, whereas Legends Brainstorm was pretty easy to find), for MPs you might/might not get lucky fairly close by or you might have to make a trip to Den Den Town/the otaku district and hope you got lucky before they sold out. Same thing for Diaclone V.2 - if that's what you were after then it was either the hobby shops or else the 'flagship' toy stores in Umeda/Namba - even the local-ish Toys R Us didn't usually stock much in the way of 'good' TFs.:( Legends stuff mostly tended to go pretty quickly (much like it does over here), MPs depended on the character in question (I can only assume all the MP Soundwaves were sucked through some kind of mystical vortex as soon as they touched the shelves - not ONE anywhere on the very morning they became available). That said, it's worth noting the only shop close-ish by that stocked MPs/Legends was close to a pretty affluent area (which I also taught in 2 days a week - my students kept getting the toys before I could get them :mad: ) and also an international university, so the 'competition' for me was probably unusually heavy.

It's also worth mentioning that TFs aren't really a super-popular toyline in Japan these days - Star Wars, Marvel, the ever-reliable Super Sentai/Kamen Rider/Gundam (albeit the models rather than toys per se) all have way more shelf-space than TFs.
So, you know...not a super-high-priority line, sales are down on toys in general, 'they're only kids, who the hell is going to notice anyway' (not to mention that the whole aging population/low birth rate thing isn't helping toy sales in general), plus less admin/production costs...it's just a guess, but I'm much more inclined to put this one down to the bean-counters at Takara-Tomy taking an easy option to cut costs rather than Hasbro's influence.

[Zippo]

I really do not like this news .. I've been collecting mostly Takara mostly since 2008 (the exception being when they do not release a toy), and I am going to miss the extra attention to detail.

I watched several POTP reviews yesterday and all I could see were horrible stickers that were not centred or cut correctly, black wheels with no detailing, mismatched colours (looking at you Rodimus) and died a little inside knowing that Takara won't be releasing versions of these toys that take care of all of those problems.

I will cling to the hope that the missing Dinobots from Wave 1 are coming in a United Warriors gift set box (along with the same hope that the Terrorcons and Predaking get the same treatment..)

[DELTAprime]

For me my want of cartoon accurate is less of an issue now than it was back in 2007 when I started collecting. Back then it was a choice between the upcoming cartoon accurate Henkei line and the now out of stock everywhere Classics line. I liked the look of the cartoon accurate decos over the Classics decos and I've continued with cartoon accurate since then.

However at this point I have almost every G1 cartoon character in my CHUG collection. My upcoming targets for acquisition are often characters that have only ever been in Marvel or IDW comics, so there is no cartoon accurate deco Takara could do.

For me if this was inevitable at least it's happening now that I have only a handful of cartoon characters still to acquire rather than years ago when it would have been a huge headache.

[bowspearer]

Kamen Rider

Yeah this has certainly been a peculiar transition. I remember when Kamen Rider was very much a series aimed at teens/tweens while Super Sentai was aimed more at kids, yet the target age of Kamen Rider certainly seems to have dropped over the years.



I'm much more inclined to put this one down to the bean-counters at Takara-Tomy taking an easy option to cut costs rather than Hasbro's influence.

Which is likely to bite them in the ass. The movie verse figures are one thing - the DX versions tend to be at a similar level of quality and paint apps to legends series figures. However there is going to be a marked difference in the execution of these figures compared to others. I wouldn't be surprised if the figures wind up shelfwarming a fair bit.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I really do not like this news .. I've been collecting mostly Takara mostly since 2008 (the exception being when they do not release a toy), and I am going to miss the extra attention to detail.Yeah...:(

Which is likely to bite them in the ass. The movie verse figures are one thing - the DX versions tend to be at a similar level of quality and paint apps to legends series figures. However there is going to be a marked difference in the execution of these figures compared to others. I wouldn't be surprised if the figures wind up shelfwarming a fair bit.I sort of hope so...it would be nice if we at least had the option of better/more thorough offerings TF-wise. I mean, there's a Titan-class Predaking on the horizon...
The sad bit is, I suspect it won't make enough of a dint in sales to really be worth TT's notice. Most TF sales are to parents, for kids...how many Japanese kids are going to notice or care that their Optimus Prime looks just like the foreign one, and that's a step down to what it used to be?
I am sort of interested to see how they'll deal with Dreadwind and BlackDarkwing/Buster and Hydra though - that's a hard one to gloss over, switching teal for bright red. Takara does have a pretty good record of taking the 'fans'/collectors into account, and Japanese companies by and large do tend to be pretty risk-averse, so if "Let's Hasbro" doesn't work out for them then I can sort of see them reverting to form. Fingers crossed anyway.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah...:(
The sad bit is, I suspect it won't make enough of a dint in sales to really be worth TT's notice. Most TF sales are to parents, for kids...how many Japanese kids are going to notice or care that their Optimus Prime looks just like the foreign one, and that's a step down to what it used to be?
^This. And don't forget that officially speaking, TakaraTOMY aren't supposed to be marketing their toys at Hasbro markets. They're only supposed to be targeting their toys at their own market (and the same goes for Hasbro not interfering with TakaraTOMY's market). Speculate all you like, but this is the existing legal agreement between both companies. Neither company are entitled to differentiate their products from each other. And while many Legends figures looked nicer than their Titans Return counterparts, don't forget that they were also double the price.

[Bidoofdude]

So, I thought “why not?” and put through an email to Hasbro regarding the whole issue, including the response from fans. I surprisingly got an email in about 24 hours, as follows: :(

Response By Email (Kriss) (12/28/2017 09:27 AM)
Dear Ryan,

Thanks so much for your email. I appreciate your comments and have shared with our internal business partners.

Regards,

Kriss De Nardo

Either the inquiry to get some light on this has fallen on deaf ears or they really just can’t be bothered. :(

I have followed it up requesting that some kind of response would be favourable for the fan community, but not much luck I think.

The original email:



Customer By CSS Web (Ryan) (12/27/2017 12:21 PM)
Hi Hasbro gang,

A revelation amongst the broad Transformers online community has sprouted recently with Takara Tomy’s announcement of their own “Power of the Primes” toyline, with decos that are the exact same as Hasbro’s own line releasing in this coming year.

As you may be aware, this is starkly different to past releases, with Takara releasing their own, typically higher grade (and cost), more cartoon accurate paint schemes on well adored figures in the Legends and Unite Warriors lines of recent past. This has upset many collectors throughout the online community in not only the US, UK and Australia but in asian markets such as Japan and Hong Kong, now seemingly without a second option for decos of new Transformers figures, if unsatisfied with more toy accuracy-targeted figures.

Several accusations and reports have come to attention that indicate that Hasbro may have had an influence on such a huge and ultimately upsetting decision, citing a desire for “global unification of the brand” and pressure on Takara Tomy to cease creating new more cartoon-favourable paint schemes.

Could you please spread some light on this issue, so that the community may better understand its origins and clarify some of the more distressing points? Hasbro may not even be involved at all, but it is a poignant topic for a huge number of dedicated fans who would likely be better enthused in the future with some answers.

Thank you, on behalf of the fan community,

Ryan

Hope we get something at least, even just a “yeah we know about that.”

[bowspearer]

^This. And don't forget that officially speaking, TakaraTOMY aren't supposed to be marketing their toys at Hasbro markets. They're only supposed to be targeting their toys at their own market (and the same goes for Hasbro not interfering with TakaraTOMY's market).

A couple of points come to mind here. The first is that technically Takara haven't been marketing their figures to Hasbro's Markets. What Takara have done is market their figures to Japanese retailers and etailers, some of whom happen to be retail outlets which export to Hasbro's territories. Sure, you could argue that Takara could be expected to slap a C&D order on the likes of HLJ, but in light of Hasbro's behaviour here, it would be very difficult to make a case for it.

That leads me to the second point. Arguably the biggest contributor to Takara releases being sold in Hasbro territories, are Hasbro themselves - specifically Hasbro Asia. Every single exporter of Takara figures who operates outside of Japan, as well as US importers like TF Source, all get their figures from Hasbro Asia.

In other words, not only is it not being adhered to, but you even have Hasbro marketing Takara's products for them in their own territories.

So yes, technically the legal agreement is there, but it's one which neither side clearly views as being a hard and fast rule regarding the other's releases.

[FatalityPitt]

I think this merging of the two brands can be a good thing. This means that Hasbro/Takara may now aim to release Transformers that will appeal to both Japanese and International fans in a single product line, and these toys will be available to everyone. I suspect Hasbro might have been contemplating this for a while, and even tested the waters by slowly releasing toys based on some Japanese G1 characters like CW Lio Kaiser and TR Black Shadow in Hasbro markets. For us in the Hasbro markets, it means we might get more of those Japanese G1 characters we always wanted (like Metalhawk), but they'll be easier to find on retail.

As for the Takara market in Japan, looking specifically at the the Legends line in 2016/17; the toys have nicer features (like Targetmasters, more vibrant decos, etc), but in my mind there's a couple drawbacks. They missed out on characters that were available in Hasbro's TR line, like Rumble, Alpha Trion, Sentinel Prime, Breakaway (Getaway), Krok, Quake, Ptero and even Black Shadow. True, they got Godbomber and Lio Convoy; but I think the range of characters available in TR was much greater and more diverse.

Another thing about the 2016/17 Legends line that made me think the Takara fans got the short end of the stick; the separation of the Titanmaster head components from their drones. Imagine being an Apeface fan living in Japan; to get the head component (representing the robot mode), you gotta buy Laserbeak; and to get the Jet/Gorilla drone (representing the alt-mode), you gotta buy Weirdwolf. Even if you get the 2 sets and reunite Apeface's head with his drone, the drone is still the wrong colour. But if you're lucky like us and live in the Hasbro market, and you want Apeface's head and drone in the "right" colours; all you had to do was walk into Kmart/Target and buy TR Apeface for $10 or less. Similar with other characters like Repugus. If you want a "Complete" Repugnus but live in Japan, you gotta buy Brawn AND Broadside.

Takara's Transformers are great, and even better than Hasbro's in some respects; but it's not all perfect. I think by merging the two brands, it'll allow Hasbro's strengths to cover whatever weaknesses Takara had in it's marketing approach, and bring Hasbro's product quality up to the same level as Takara's. Then again, there could be drawbacks for us as fans too. Before this merge, we had a choice between Hasbro and Takara Transformers. If we didn't like the Hasbro version, we could buy the Takara version instead. But with now with this merge, there's now basically a monopoly, and we may have less choices.

[Bidoofdude]

UPDATE: I have received a respnse, with currently no information to pass on to the fan community. They have passed concerns onto their colleagues.

[DELTAprime]

Hey Bido, is there a web form to contact Hasbro or a CS email? I might email them after work tomorrow just to let them know I'm not happy with this.

[Bidoofdude]

Hey Bido, is there a web form to contact Hasbro or a CS email? I might email them after work tomorrow just to let them know I'm not happy with this.

I wouldn't bother, if there is anything to say they are not planning on talking about it, and are seemingly well aware of the negative reaction that it has garnered, if they did indeed pass it on. Nothing left to do at this point beyond wait for some news, if any ever comes.

[DELTAprime]

The more I think about it the more I settle on the theory that maybe Takara are just bowing to shareholder pressure to reduce manufacturing cost and increase sales, which is what every company's shareholders want.

The prices at HLJ for the PP line are much lower than the LG line equivalent. If they want to increase their market share with domestic kids at the expense of a handful of foreign collectors then making the toys cheaper is probably the way to go.

Also jacking up the price of MP Dinobot probably helps the bottom line. But I still think that toy has much higher development cost and QC cost than an average MP.

[bowspearer]

I think this merging of the two brands can be a good thing. This means that Hasbro/Takara may now aim to release Transformers that will appeal to both Japanese and International fans in a single product line, and these toys will be available to everyone.

-SNIP-

There's another aspect to this if true as well. It would mean that Hasbro and Takara could actually design and engineer something with the primary market being collectors currently serviced separately by Takara, Hasbro Asia, Hasbro Uk, Hasbro USA and Hasbro Australia. Bear in mind with the Masterpiece line for example, audiences outside of Takara's distribution area cannot legally be factored into thir current const benefit analysies. Yet this would still include exporters in Japan like HLJ, but there are also alot of secondary market retailers and customers which are serviced by Hasbro Asia and therefore not able to be considered.

As a result, we could see the flip side of this, with more 'premium' releases of figures being more easily justified to shareholders with both companies, which then becomes a win for everyone.

[Ploughmans Lunch]

Dinobits/fembot combiner/darkeingssszsSSz to be included in regular POTP Japanese release and not released as new UW sets. Bit of a shame rly as I quite like UW.

No Abominus confirmation yet but not holding my breath.

[griffin]

Yes, the 2nd and 3rd waves of POTP toys in Japan have been revealed (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/01/12/takara-tomy-japanese-power-primes-dinobots-june-july-releases-356696)....
(nothing new that hasn't already been revealed by Hasbro though)


Japanese Power of the Primes wave 2 – June


PP-10 Alchemist Prime
PP-11 Dinobot Slug
PP-12 Dinobot Swoop
PP-13 Dinobot Snarl
PP-14 Dinobot Sludge
PP-15 Dinobot Grimlock

Japanese Power of the Primes wave 3 – July


PP-16 Moonracer
PP-17 Dreadwind
PP-18 Blackwing
PP-19 Starscream

[DELTAprime]

I'd love to know how much business the Japanese and HK online retailers have lost because of Takara products no being identical to Hasbro's.

[griffin]

I'd love to know how much business the Japanese and HK online retailers have lost because of Takara products no being identical to Hasbro's.

Even though HLJ already has "order stop" on their first wave of POTP toys (we don't know if they just had less stock pre-ordered, expecting a decline in interest), I would probably think a fair bit in the long run. As would TakaraTomy, who... as might be pointed out... can't market their product to Hasbro territories (except the Asian countries supplied by Hasbro HK), but that doesn't mean they don't factor in a calculated percentage being bought up by non-Japanese customers through online stores like HLJ and Amazon.
We will probably never be told what percentage of Japanese Transformers ends up being sold to non-Japanese customers, but obviously, if Japanese wholesalers who sell thousands of units to American online stores like BBTS, TFSource and 3rd party sellers on Amazon, as well as online stores in Japan that sell direct to foreigners (like HLJ), suddenly order half as much product because there are less people outside of Japan wanting their products, TakaraTomy will then recalculate down their total production numbers on toys like POTP, and possibly cut back on regular release Japanese exclusive toys (like "Titans Return" Lioconvoy and Godbomber in the non-exclusive Legends line).

I think it will end up hitting Hasbro HK hard too, as they might not release those mainline Japanese toys if they are identical to the ones they just released 2-6 months earlier as Hasbro toys. And if the mainlines were to no longer be released by Hasbro HK in the Asian countries outside of Japan, it probably wouldn't be worth doing any of the non-mainline Japanese toys, as most of their customers probably wouldn't then be able to meet minimum order quantities each month. (they stopped selling to ToysRUs in HK a couple years ago, leaving them with just independents to sell JP Transformers to now)

[griffin]

Wave 2 and 3 have been added to Amazon Japan, which has included official images (which can be seen here (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/01/18/takara-tomy-power-primes-wave-2-wave-3-images-356907)).

The release dates at this time are June 20th for the second wave (mostly Dinobots), and July 22nd for the third wave.

[DELTAprime]

Well I just preordered everything up to PP18 as a just in case Hasbro Australia doesn't release something, but fully expecting to cancel everything.

[Ploughmans Lunch]

I liked having options, and I don't think this bodes well for anyone (especially TT).

[griffin]

I don't know why... either the Japanese fans are jumping on them, or HLJ aren't pre-ordering as much stock expecting them to not have as much demand, but within 2 days of the June and July POTP waves being listed, they are ALL on Order Stop.
(you'd think that when something on HLJ sells out that early, they'd be able to increase their order with TakaraTomy, as they are missing out on a lot of money from all those people who would have pre-ordered over the next 4-5 months)

[griffin]

Wave 4 of the Japanese releases of POTP in August have been revealed, and are now showing up at online stores for pre-order.

This wave covers PP-20 to PP-27, covering the five Terrorcons, a Leader, a fem-bot and a Prime Master.

PP-20 - Quintus Prime w/ Bludgeon Decoy Armor
PP-21 - Rippersnapper
PP-22 - Cutthroat
PP-23 - Blot
PP-24 - Sinnertwin
PP-25 - Hung-Gurrr
PP-26 - Elita-1
PP-27 - Optimal Optimus

The official images can be seen all in one place here (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/06/takara-tomy-power-primes-new-stock-photos-360495), which are supposed to be the same as the Hasbro versions, so these images give us a good look at our upcoming Hasbro POTP toys. You can also see some photos (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/03/06/takara-tomy-abominus-elita-1-combiner-torso-elita-infn1te-stock-images-360559) of the combined mode of Abominus and a combiner using Elita-1 and four random limbs.

And if you didn't already know, Elita-1's combiner name is Elita-Infin1te. (that is not a typo... it does have a 1 in the middle of the word)

[DELTAprime]

HLJ is taking orders again for the first wave of PP figures, must be from cancellations.

Once again I've preordered this new wave of PP figures in case something goes awry and I can't get them locally.

[BigTransformerTrev]

HLJ is taking orders again for the first wave of PP figures, must be from cancellations.

Once again I've preordered this new wave of PP figures in case something goes awry and I can't get them locally.

I've done the same, but since apparently there is no difference whatsoever between this lot and the Hasbro versions (boo! :() I'll probably grab the Hasbro versions and cancel my order of these more expensive ones.

Incidentally- these are the first pics I’ve seen of Primal. He is in his all-metal-multi-mode body? Now THAT I will get! :D

[griffin]

I noticed the other day, the fifth wave of POTP toys on HLJ (for release at the end of September), and the various official images have been grouped together here (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/04/05/japanese-power-primes-predaking-battletrap-octopunch-stock-images-361913).

That's four toys in the fifth wave, including this year's Titan Class figure....
PP-28 - Solus Prime/Octopunch
PP-29 - Battleslash
PP-30 - Roadtrap
PP-31 - Predaking

And news has just surfaced (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/05/08/power-of-the-primes-japan-releases-for-october-2018-including-novastar-363490) of the sixth wave in October having five toys being released...
PP-32 - Alpha Trion/Landmine
PP-33 - Skrapnel
PP-34 - Tailgate
PP-35 - Novastar
PP-36 - Inferno

[DELTAprime]

Takara are not even investing in the packaging for the PP line. They are just putting a Japanese sticker on the Hasbro boxes.

http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/05/24/takara-tomys-power-of-the-primes-packaging-us-packaging-with-japanese-language-sticker-364263

[Zippo]

sigh

Guess I can safely open up my Hasbro versions now; the only reason to get Takara versions is if it is too hard to get Hasbro.

[BigTransformerTrev]

sigh

Guess I can safely open up my Hasbro versions now; the only reason to get Takara versions is if it is too hard to get Hasbro.

It’s so disappointing they are the same - I loved the differences between Combiner Wars and Unite Warriors, especially with the likes of Groove, Strafe, Nosecone etc. Made me happy to buy both

[griffin]

Takara are not even investing in the packaging for the PP line. They are just putting a Japanese sticker on the Hasbro boxes.

http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/05/24/takara-tomys-power-of-the-primes-packaging-us-packaging-with-japanese-language-sticker-364263


That's so sad.


On the one hand, I'm upset that we won't get variations to pick and choose over (like when there is a great mould, you want to get extra versions of it), but on the other hand, I'm a little happy that there isn't the temptation of wanting to buy a heap of Japanese "duplicates" just because of some major or minor colour differences (like I did with the Combiner Wars).

[griffin]

A seventh, and possibly final, wave of POTP toys will be released in November in Japan (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/06/01/takara-tomy-power-of-the-primes-releases-for-november-2018-364683), which covers the last of the 40 Hasbro POTP toys.

PP-37 Megatronus / Bomb Burst
PP-38 Autobot Outback
PP-39 Decepticon Cindersaur
PP-40 Rodimus Unicronus

[DELTAprime]

PP-41 Wreck-gar
PP-42 Nemesis Prime

http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/07/03/takaratomy-power-of-the-primes-wreck-gar-and-nemesis-prime-revealed-366557

Fingers crossed for 43 and 44 to be Repugus and Counter Punch.