Solo: A Star Wars Story

[SharkyMcShark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Szts88zY4o&feature=share

Enjoy, plebeians.

[SharkyMcShark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNW0B0HsvVs

And now a longer teaser.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Can't take that logo seriously, reminds me too much of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBmX12mFoeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aHNKziN-fE

Then that reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NJFsRPniBM

[Lord_Zed]

Time to ruin the mystery behind a classic character with unnecessary backstory?

I mean the trailers fine, but I don't really need to see the lesser adventures of young Solo, couldn't they just have a new character with a Solo cameo?

[Trent]

Time to ruin the mystery behind a classic character with unnecessary backstory?

I mean the trailers fine, but I don't really need to see the lesser adventures of young Solo, couldn't they just have a new character with a Solo cameo?

^I agree with this.

[drifand]

Thought that as long it isn't Rian Johnson directing no explanation is required. :)

[DaptoDog]

I don't wish to prejudge the movie but I thought the trailer was pretty underwhelming. Combined with all the dramas surrounding the making of the movie I won't be in a rush to see it.

[Galvatran]

Time to ruin the mystery behind a classic character with unnecessary backstory?

I mean the trailers fine, but I don't really need to see the lesser adventures of young Solo, couldn't they just have a new character with a Solo cameo?
I think I know where you are coming from. Han's younger & lesser adventures may somehow detract from his persona &/or ruin the mystery. I disagree. I'm looking forward to looking backward in time to see the events that helped shape the man he is today, not just from trilogy series. 'Lesser' adventures does not necessarily equate to unworthy or unnecessary backstory IMO.


Although different, it reminds me when distinguished music artist 'come out of retirement' to pursue their love of their career. Some fans will always reject the revival. Please don't go ruining the legacy you left us with, blah, blah, blah. We want to remember you as you were then, blah, blah, blah.

[drifand]

I don't wish to prejudge the movie but I thought the trailer was pretty underwhelming. Combined with all the dramas surrounding the making of the movie I won't be in a rush to see it.

On other news game of thrones people are asked to do a new Star Wars trilogy.
This is how Disney has taken feedback about Rian's take and not sure they be doing his trilogy.

I don't think is bad but yeah after the last Jedi, kinda lost for a good Star Wars movie especially this was budgeted.

[SharkyMcShark]

On other news game of thrones people are asked to do a new Star Wars trilogy.
This is how Disney has taken feedback about Rian's take and not sure they be doing his trilogy.


Literally no where has this been suggested.


“These new films will be separate from both the episodic Skywalker saga and the recently-announced trilogy being developed by Rian Johnson, writer-director of Star Wars: The Last Jedi.”

[griffin]

Face it, disney will milk this cash cow until it is dry and people get tired of "yet another" Star Wars movie. And then they'll milk it some more.
They spent a lot of money buying the franchise, and even though will make back many times more, it will have a big permanent place in their themeparks, all without paying anyone for licensing anymore.

I think it will be a bit like Star Trek movies... the novelty will wear off eventually, after 10 or 12 movies.... and then we will see a reboot, which won't appeal to anyone older than 20, who had grown up on the original Star Wars movies and prequels.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I think it will be a bit like Star Trek movies... the novelty will wear off eventually, after 10 or 12 movies....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VEnT11mTnI

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't mind them making side stories. Star Wars has long had this, only that it's previously existed in books and comics. Now we're also seeing it in films. The main difference is that there's a new medium in which the SW universe is being expanded.

[drifand]

Literally no where has this been suggested.

Catch up . Lol
It's basically been announced by Kat

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/feb/06/game-of-thrones-star-wars-films

[drifand]

Face it, disney will milk this cash cow until it is dry and people get tired of "yet another" Star Wars movie. And then they'll milk it some more.
They spent a lot of money buying the franchise, and even though will make back many times more, it will have a big permanent place in their themeparks, all without paying anyone for licensing anymore.

I think it will be a bit like Star Trek movies... the novelty will wear off eventually, after 10 or 12 movies.... and then we will see a reboot, which won't appeal to anyone older than 20, who had grown up on the original Star Wars movies and prequels.


Problem is they realise they really pissed off enough fans on the last Jedi and hence they might be loosing or winning only half the battle. Less profits for everything including people boycotting Solo.

For every one person who totally dismissed the latest episode is actually a lost.
Is like Michael bays transformers. He lost me for good for cinemas. I just watch on tv or whatever as the story is out of weck.

Star Trek has became a bit weaker lately as well, and is fading if they don't give good stories. I was slightly bored on the last Star Trek.

[SharkyMcShark]

Catch up . Lol
It's basically been announced by Kat

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/feb/06/game-of-thrones-star-wars-films

You can read bolded text right? Your post states that TLJ had made Disney rethink Rian Johnson's trilogy. No where has it been suggested that the GoT writer's trilogy will replace Johnson's trilogy. The official press kit confirms they're separate things.

[drifand]

You can read bolded text right? Your post states that TLJ had made Disney rethink Rian Johnson's trilogy. No where has it been suggested that the GoT writer's trilogy will replace Johnson's trilogy. The official press kit confirms they're separate things.

I am not worried about Rian Johnson's trilogy. (I dont think I care). I am using common sense, you will be updated about that trilogy and I can guess it will be on hold at the moment. You can't make money with half audiences, that will be the final judgement.
Like said I am not a star wars fan. But yeah I dont see running 6 star wars movies within now till 2025. Kind of "huh? which trilogy is which?". Ur no brainier either one might be delayed or even cancelled.

Not to forget a Kenobi flim and a mobba fatt flim. One too many.

[philby]

I'm not super hyped about it but I thought the preview looked interesting. I like the idea of a heist movie in star wars.

Overall though I think I would prefer the spin off movies to be things that explore the SW universe in ways that aren't necessarily related to the movies that have come before.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Star Wars isn’t immune to franchise fatigue, but we’re a long way off from that. I mean techincally the current Star Wars run has been going since the mid 90’s and its still going strong.

Sure there was a bit of fanboy rage at the Last Jedi but look at the furore over The Phantom Menace, which didn’t impact on the box office performance of the subsequent prequels.

The only chink in the armour for the Solo movie is how the actor portrays the title character. If rumours are true, the news isn’t good. And the trailer didn’t do much to allay my fears.

[philby]

I have enjoyed some of the previews recently and I am looking forward to watching it but I don't have the hype levels of the other 3 new movies.

Some of the character and trooper designs look great so I will probably be getting a few figures. The Lando Black Series figure probably should have had an extra head I think, to go along with the raised eyebrow one.

[SharkyMcShark]

This is not a particularly good movie.

[Omega Metro]

This is not a particularly good movie.

I thought it was great. Left me wanting more at the end of it.

[Handsprime]

I wasn't expecting a big film like I did with Force Awakens and Last Jedi (which left me very disappointed). The films were alright I did enjoy them like I did with the Prequel films (I'm in the minority who actually thinks the Prequel films are better than the sequel films).

Only problems is that it introduces a few new characters without giving much explanation, plus many other things that aren't explained while because of how slow the pacing in the film is, which lends to believe that there will be a bunch of new Han Solo films (because Disney REALLY wants to milk the shit out of the Star Wars films)

[drifand]

I wasn't expecting a big film like I did with Force Awakens and Last Jedi (which left me very disappointed). The films were alright I did enjoy them like I did with the Prequel films (I'm in the minority who actually thinks the Prequel films are better than the sequel films).

Only problems is that it introduces a few new characters without giving much explanation, plus many other things that aren't explained while because of how slow the pacing in the film is, which lends to believe that there will be a bunch of new Han Solo films (because Disney REALLY wants to milk the shit out of the Star Wars films)

Not the Minority, I did't particularly like the prequels but it didn't bothered me including jar jar binks. I felt overall it was good enough.

For sequels though, I didn't mind TFA until TLJ came which made me don't like both. It feels like whoever is "looking after" this trilogy is doing a bad job of holding the pieces and is a poorly told story.

And I agree, it feels like they are inserting new characters that will not join up, but I dont think the care factor is there anymore.

[Jetfire in the sky]

For sequels though, I didn't mind TFA until TLJ came which made me don't like both. .

YES!!! 100% Agreed.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I enjoyed it. Very watchable, not as dank as Rogue One or The Last Jedi. Alden did a good job as Han, he wasn’t as wooden as I’d feared. Not a lot of character development, and I do hope there is more Lando in the future.

[shockNwave]

I'm going to watch it tomorrow.

On one hand, I'm not hyped due to the controversy surrounding the making of this film.
On the other hand, I'm hyped that this movie doesn't have as dark a disposition when compared to more recent Star Wars movies.
All up, I'm curious to see how this stands alongside Rogue One.

[SharkyMcShark]

I saw it on release night and was not particularly impressed. In my estimation, there are three main issues with this film.

1. They've not been able to properly patch over the trouble production.

The film essentially has one pace, being that stuff sort of happens at a middling speed. It's not really slow enough paced to be outright boring, it's not quick enough paced to be a rush.

In terms of tone at times the film was entirely schizophrenic. For example, the Kessel scenes literally juxtapose incredibly cruel treatment of Wookie slaves with slapstick humour droid uprising scenes shot by shot.

It comes across entirely as what it is - a film worked on by two different teams with two very different creative visions that was in the end cobbled together and rushed out the door when in an ideal world either a) more time and budget would have been given to Ron Howard, or even better b) Lucasfilm would have chosen the initial creative team better.


2. There's no real journey.

This probably relates to the troubled production mentioned above, but you don't ever see Han develop as a character through this film. He begins as a streetwise snarky criminal who yearns for bigger things and trusts no one except those close to him (Q'ira, at that time). He ends the film as a streetwise snarky criminal who yearns for bigger things and trusts no one except those close to him (Chewbacca).

The one character who does seem to have an interesting journey, being Q'ira who went from a seemingly wide eyed urchin to an organised crime lietenant, has any explanation of this journey hand waved away about 4 or 5 times throughout the film. All we hear is that she's done terrible things that she doesn't want to talk about. Then she betrays Han.

3. It was not a particularly ambitious film.

I don't want to come over all RedLetterMedia, but at times it did feel like a bit of a box ticking exercise for Han and Chewie background lore. Han meets Chewie, Han gets his DL-44, Han meets Lando, Han has some kind of falling out with Lando, Han gets the Falcon, Han makes the Kessel Run, Han ends up working for gangesters.

It doesn't push any envelopes - it doesn't present Star Wars in a way that we've never seen before on the big screen like Rogue One did, and it doesn't develop the core mythology of the franchise or have a strong message like The Last Jedi did.

In that way Solo is probably most comparable to The Force Awakens, which was by comparison an incredibly slick production, the release of which was in an entirely different context to the release of Solo.

=============================================

In conclusion, I thought it was the worst of the four films that have been released since the Disney takeover.

There were a lot of things about it that I did like, but compared to the above they're all superficial bits and bobs. I enjoyed the links to the Clone Wars and Rebels television shows, as well as the wider Canon and Legends lore. I continue to enjoy the commitment to using practical effects and real props and sets in the Disney era Star Wars films. I thought the actors were all actually decent, especially Alden Ehrenreich who I thought did a very very good job.

Oh, and as for THAT cameo - despite my above comments about enjoying the link to the lore, it felt needless and gratuitous. It was to me at about the level of Jyn/Cassian running into Dr Ezavan and Ponda Baba in Jedha City in Rogue One. Not a fan.

[reillyd]

I am in love with Enfys Nest, her gorgeous red hair, and adorable freckles. Please someone tell me the actress is an adult and I am not being creepy. I want a Forces of Destiny doll of her, now!

[bowspearer]

I'm very hesitant to watch this as it seems that the writers couldn't even get what was established in the script without coming close to veering off a cliff. It was originally established in canon that Han was a young imperial officer who got court-marshalled because he liberated Chewie, whom he met as a slave - hence the Wookie life debt. Yet at one point there were going to have Han join the Corellian Army and I've seen nothing to suggest that they've even kept that Han Chewie relationship dynamic in place.

The thing that annoys me with all of this is that much like the way they killed off Kyle Katarn because "grrl powa", it seems that everything which came out of LucasArts, which should have been untouchable, has just been crapped on for the sake of filmmakers who clearly don't have respect for the mythology or the fanbase and appear to simply see cheap political pandering as a means to $$$.

In fact what happened to Kyle Katarn is the reason why I have't watched a single Star Wars film since TFA.

How much longer before we all start crying out "Come back George! All is forgiven!"?

[SharkyMcShark]

The thing that annoys me with all of this is that much like the way they killed off Kyle Katarn because "grrl powa"

I must have missed that. I completely bought the cover story, which is that it was done for a clean slate after two decades of often contradictory and increasingly absurd EU content all premised on the fact that thered be no more movies.

I've done some reading through and you're right, Kyle Katarn was murdered in the streets because women deemed it so. Or hated his beard. Or something.

Jesus Christ...

[Ralph Wiggum]

^^

It took me a few minutes to get the jist of what you were saying and realise I was agreeing with you :D

I’ve enjoyed the Legends series since Zahn’s novels but its just too painful to work new movies into the web of pre-existing media. Even Solo has references to other canon material which if you didn’t know about, would make you go, “WTF?”

[M-bot]

Look, I’m probably putting my head in the lion’s mouth here, and this is not meant to insult anyone - your viewpoint is as valid as mine - but...

Canon, shmanon.

Who cares if it contradicts what has come before? Give me a good story and I’m happy (which is not necessarily saying Solo is a good story well told), continuity be damned. I can enjoy either story, and believe what I choose.

I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it ‘should be’. Same goes for the fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ, in my humble opinion.

[SMHFConvoy]

Look, I’m probably putting my head in the lion’s mouth here, and this is not meant to insult anyone - your viewpoint is as valid as mine - but...

Canon, shmanon.

Who cares if it contradicts what has come before? Give me a good story and I’m happy (which is not necessarily saying Solo is a good story well told), continuity be damned. I can enjoy either story, and believe what I choose.

I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it ‘should be’. Same goes for the fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ, in my humble opinion.

Totally agree M, it's entertainment and therefore nothing is writ in stone.

That said I really didn't want to see Solo, because of the directoral changes, because it was another bloody starwars movie but this is a thing I do with my nephew and his dad, it's our thing and I really enjoyed it and it's one movie I wouldn't mind having a sequel to.

[SMHFConvoy]

How much longer before we all start crying out "Come back George! All is forgiven!"?

You do realise that Disney bought the IP outright, lock, stock and barrel? Lucas didn't walk out, he was bought out.

He's never coming back.

[bowspearer]

I must have missed that. I completely bought the cover story, which is that it was done for a clean slate after two decades of often contradictory and increasingly absurd EU content all premised on the fact that thered be no more movies.

-SNIP- <baseless misogyny slurs> -SNIP-

Jesus Christ...

Your response here is absurd and steeped in a false equivalency fallacy. It's one thing to scrap the Zahn novels, the Anderson novels and everything else that can be summed up, with 3 words - "licenced third party".

These projects never came from the Lucasfilm Group itself and therefore all bets should rightly have been off with them.

Do you know what was a part of the Lucasfilm Group? Lucasarts.

Do you know what came out of the Lucasfilm Group? Every single Star Wars game, including the entire Dark Forces series. In fact, just like Prince Xizor and Dash Rendar, Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors should have been every bit as off limits for removing from canon as Admiral Ackbar or Mon Montha.

When were those characters created by Lucasfilm? Oh yes - Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors were created in 1995, while Prince Xizor and Dash Rendar were created in 1996.

All four were created before the Special Edition Trilogy, let alone the Prequels, so your entire argument here is utter fallacy. In fact Shadows of the Empire was a Lucasfilm Group major release at the time which was designed to be everything but a movie- with even its own dedicated toyline.

It is utterly fallacious to compare that to the likes of the Thrawn Trilogy or the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

And no, it is absolutely not the same thing to eliminate one of those characters from star wars lore, as it is to eliminate the likes of Kyp Duron (who happens to be one of my favourite eu characters btw).

Likewise, the Han/Chewie backstory I'm referring to came straight from Lucasfilm back in 1994 by way of the Star Wars Screen Entertainment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ablw6urvNWE) PC program

The fact is that if Disney can't respect their own characters (as opposed to third party characters) and their own in house developed stories, enough to work around them, then I struggle to see why I should invest in any of their movies enough to watch them. In fact, I have little doubt that they'd slice up the OT and PT on the cutting room floor if they could get away with it.

Even then I'm simply saying I'm on the fence until I know that they've respected that original story between Han and Chewie (Han throwing away a highly promising career in the Imperial navy to protect Chewie- a wookie he'd never met before). Lose that and you lose a huge chunk of what makes the life debt and their bond so amazing to begin with. Lose that and I lose all interest in seeing it.


I’ve enjoyed the Legends series since Zahn’s novels but its just too painful to work new movies into the web of pre-existing media. Even Solo has references to other canon material which if you didn’t know about, would make you go, “WTF?”

The difference is that we're not talking about here isn't in the same category as the Zahn Trilogy, or any other piece of what should actually be EU - things which simply licensed Star Wars Trademarks and created stories and characters with minimal, at best, involvement by the Lucasfilm Group.

What we are talking about is what the Lucasfilm group established themselves - in house. Anything which fell under that category should have been as sacrosanct as the movies.


Look, I’m probably putting my head in the lion’s mouth here, and this is not meant to insult anyone - your viewpoint is as valid as mine - but...

Canon, shmanon.

Who cares if it contradicts what has come before? Give me a good story and I’m happy (which is not necessarily saying Solo is a good story well told), continuity be damned. I can enjoy either story, and believe what I choose.

And yet, for someone so quick to talk about art, I find it telling that you ignore the fact that if the artist doesn't respect the medium, the art piece they're creating ultimately suffers. A good story can be a myopic bit of fun froth on top, or it can be deep, profound and memorable. Your argument fails to draw that distinction or recognise which will have the longer lasting legacy.


I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it ‘should be’.

Meanwhile, letting go of expectations has done wonders to increasingly worsen the quality of Bayformers. Also it speaks volumes about the discernment of modern cinema-goers when a film like Age of Ex-stink-tion can be rated as both the worst movie of the year and one of the highest grossing films of the year.

The fact is that it would be entirely possible to create a great film that is well crafted and respects the pre-existing world it is created in. But then why bother with that as a film making company, when audiences will still hand over their money by the truckload for something far less polished.

No matter how much you tell yourself otherwise, this isn't art for the sake of art; this is a business. If companies see that people will pay by the truckload for crap, they'll serve up crap by the truckload. Why? Because when people will pay for crap, giving them quality actually costs you money.

When you say "switch off and enjoy it" what you're actually saying is "send these companies an even louder message that they'll pay for whatever is dished up.

See here's the thing. This is all about the money. Some bean counter in Disney ran some sums and decided that there was little to no money in the older fans, or that alienating them came with absolutely no risk. Likewise, they tokenistically decided that jumping on the diversity bandwagon is going to make them a heap of money so they went there. It's not about actually empowering people; it's about looking enough like you are so that people will hand over their money to you.


Same goes for the fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ, in my humble opinion.

Maybe the "fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ" wouldn't be as strong if Disney weren't constantly agitating the older fanbase - the reason the property was so attractive to buy to begin with - by saying things like the new films aren't made for them at all - which the "fanboys" reasonably take to mean "we don't care about you, we don't want you - now shut up and piss off". People can't poke the bear and then be surprised when they get mauled by it.


You do realise that Disney bought the IP outright, lock, stock and barrel? Lucas didn't walk out, he was bought out.

He's never coming back.

You do realise I was using a figure of speech?

[SMHFConvoy]

Oh please, "Come back George! All is forgiven" is not a figure of speech, a turn of phrase, a colloquialism or an analogy.

[bowspearer]

Oh please, "Come back George! All is forgiven" is not a figure of speech, a turn of phrase, a colloquialism or an analogy.

Then I guess the editors of the Shorter Dictionary of Catch Phrases (https://books.google.com.au/books?id=lLXNoX3u6XUC&pg=PT25&lpg=PT25&dq=come+back+all+is+forgiven+expression&source=bl&ots=EuTAo7LLGH&sig=pG8XFjtZhJ28Rcjc6pA6jq6iHtw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj41IeWxaXbAhVshq0KHdhXDRs4ChDoAQgmMAA#v =onepage&q&f=false) didn't get that memo.

They note:


come back..., all is forgiven is a jocularly despairing appeal to one who has left a particular post or organisation in which his or her know-how would now be useful, or somebody despised or disgraced by somebody worse, as in come back Margaret Thatcher, all is forgiven. The phrase has been used in this way since around 1950. See also come home, all is forgiven.

You were saying?

[griffin]

I was surprised to see that this movie cost over US$250 million (some estimates are over 300, and that's even before 100+ spent on marketing)... one of the most expensive movies ever, and yet it isn't an "epic" type of movie like Infinity War, which was only a little more expensive to make.
(I guess reshooting over 2/3s of the movie, will make it more expensive than the result will look like it cost.)


That aside, despite being a little slow in parts, it wasn't too bad. Nothing too unusual or surprising, like prequel movies, which were also finally showing us things that we already knew about.
I still just don't like the choice of actor for Han, since Harrison Ford was such an iconic actor for the role, it really ruins the feel of the movie to have someone who doesn't look or sound, or behave like the original Movies Solo. Since they were going for a no-name actor for the role, couldn't they have at least find someone who looked a little like Harrison Ford... or one of those impersonators.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I'm sure you know that the only material which is sacrosanct, and has only every been treated as such, has been the 6x movies because they were created by Lucas. And now the cartoon series come to think of it.

Your opinion that any material from LucasArts should be treated the same as the movies is simply that: an opinion. If Lucas made a storyline decision which shat all over the canon of the games, then his opinion would have overridden it.

The head honchos who run Lucasfilm have made the call. You can keep dwelling on it or enjoy the next stage of the epic space fantasy we all love.


That aside, despite being a little slow in parts, it wasn't too bad. Nothing too unusual or surprising, like prequel movies, which were also finally showing us things that we already knew about.

The problem with origin stories is that there is no tension whatsoever about whether the protagonist or his furry sidekick will survive, because you know they will. Kinda like when watching Black Panther, I had zero concern about the main character getting stabbed and kicked off a waterfall given he was appearing in Infinity War. It's certainly the weaker of the Star Wars movies so far, but it wasn't as terrible as I'd feared.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I still just don't like the choice of actor for Han, since Harrison Ford was such an iconic actor for the role, it really ruins the feel of the movie to have someone who doesn't look or sound, or behave like the original Movies Solo. Since they were going for a no-name actor for the role, couldn't they have at least find someone who looked a little like Harrison Ford... or one of those impersonators.

A lot of people thought this guy would've been better for the role:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7xWJHXY8ws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bba_wPdLxp4

[Ralph Wiggum]

A lot of people thought this guy would've been better for the role:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7xWJHXY8ws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bba_wPdLxp4

It's one thing to do a scene-by-scene impression, it's another to play the role independently.

[bowspearer]

I'm sure you know that the only material which is sacrosanct, and has only every been treated as such, has been the 6x movies because they were created by Lucas. And now the cartoon series come to think of it.

I actually said that anything from the Lucasfilm group should have been made sacrosanct. However not only has that not happened, but given that Mark Hamill's character in TLJ was referred to by him as "Jake Skywalker", even the movies themselves and the core iconic characters aren't safe.

However your argument about what was created by Lucas is flawed on so many levels. Take Star Wars Dark Forces for example. Wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Dark_Forces) notes:


George Lucas appeared on CNN's Future Watch show and demonstrated/promoted the game. Lucas and Daron Stinnett also promoted it in Disneyland when they traveled there for the opening of the Indiana Jones train.

Ergo Lucas clearly had enough of his finger in the pie on it to actively promote it - thereby officially endorsing it as a Lucasfilm Group project.

Likewise, Lucas was so involved with Shadows of the Empire, that Black Sun was there entirely because Lucas wanted the story to explore the galaxy's underworld (http://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/11/11/20-secrets-of-shadows-of-the-empire).

To argue that these projects didn't come from Lucas and that he had no significant involvement in them, is blatant revisionism.

Then there's the fact that the Star Wars Screen Entertainment Program blatantly falls under the category of an authorised Lucasfilm fact file for 1994. It wasn't a game, but rather a screensaver/entertainment package loaded with character bios and histories, blueprints, etc. Essentially everything it mentioned was official information from Lucasfilm. Heck, the thing all but mentioned the duel between Obi-wan and Anakin at Mustafar a good 11 years before Revenge of the Sith (a duel on a lava filled planet which Anakin lost and wound up needing a portable life support suit because of it).


Your opinion that any material from LucasArts should be treated the same as the movies is simply that: an opinion.

It may be my opinion, but it has more consistency than your opinion, given that you've claimed that certain things shouldn't be off limits because Lucas had no involvement in them, when the evidence says otherwise.


If Lucas made a storyline decision which shat all over the canon of the games, then his opinion would have overridden it.

Yet weren't fans irate at him for doing just that with changing Owen Lars from Obi-Wan's Brother to Anakin's half-brother?


The head honchos who run Lucasfilm have made the call. You can keep dwelling on it or enjoy the next stage of the epic space fantasy we all love.

Actually the third option is for people to say "I'm out" and it's one which seems to be increasingly picking up steam among fans. After all, if even Mark Hamill had his soul destroyed over the Disney treatment of Luke, I fail to see why I should feel compelled to care any more about the new movies any more than he does, or feel any automatic hype for any of the new films.

And that's the problem; for an increasing number of us, these are no longer the films we love. They'll never kill off love of the older stuff, but it's increasingly becoming a case of "I'm out" with the new movies. Mind you that's fine considering that Kathleen Kennedy clearly wants the older fans to go away and to kill off every single iconic older character there, because they "get in the way" of the story she and others want to tell and take away the limelight from the newer characters.

[M-bot]

Dude. Why so angry? You’ll give yourself an ulcer.:)

[bowspearer]

Dude. Why so angry? You’ll give yourself an ulcer.:)

I'm not angry, it just saddens me to see how the property has been handled under Disney. I seriously don't get how Disney can get Marvel movies so right, while getting Star Wars movies so screwed up.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Well I'm sorry but Lucasfilm simply doesn't share your views:


]Holocron database and canonicity

Historically, Lucasfilm tracked the storylines and content of these media in large black binders, known as bibles. In 2000, Leland Chee was hired as Continuity Database Administrator for Lucas Licensing, and implemented a database to replace the bibles. The database was named the Holocron,[32][33][34][35] a term used within the fictional Star Wars universe for "ancient repositories of knowledge and wisdom" used by the Jedi and Sith.[36][37] Lucasfilm's Holocron consists of over 55,000 entries for franchise characters, locations, species, and vehicles.[32] Chee said of the database in 2012, "What sets Star Wars apart from other franchises is that we develop a singular continuity across all forms of media, whether it be the films, TV series, video games, novels and comics, and the Holocron is a key component to Lucasfilm being able to do this."[38]

The Holocron was divided into five levels of canon (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

GWL-canon or "G-canon" stood for "George Lucas canon": Marked "GWL" after George Lucas (whose middle name is "Walton")[34]. It included Episodes I–VI (the released films at that time), and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the scripts, filmed deleted scenes, film novelizations, reference books, radio plays, and other primary sources were also G-canon when not in contradiction with the released films.[39] GWL-canon overrode the lower levels of canon when there was a contradiction. In the words of Leland Chee: "George's view of the universe is his view. He's not beholded to what's gone before."[34]

T-canon was Television canon: Referred to the canon level comprising the animated film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the television series Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Many stories wound up superseding those depicted in continuity canon, and the second Clone Wars animated series and its film also overwrote Genndy Tartakovsky's 2003 Clone Wars animated micro-series.[39]

C-canon was Continuity canon: Consisting of most of the materials from the Star Wars Expanded Universe including the books, comics, and videogames bearing the label of Star Wars.[39] According to a Wired article, the creation of stories that introduced radical changes in the continuity, like The Force Unleashed video-game which introduced Darth Vader's secret apprentice, required Lucas's approval, and he spent hours explaining to the developers anything he deemed necessary for them to know.[34] Games and RPG sourcebooks were a special case; the stories and general background information were themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay were, with few exceptions, N-canon.[citation needed]

S-canon was Secondary canon: Covering the same media as C-canon, it was immediately superseded by anything in higher levels of canon in any place where two elements contradicted each other, the non-contradicting elements were still a canon part of the Star Wars universe, this included certain elements of a few N-canon stories.[39] The Star Wars Holiday Special is an example of secondary canon.[34]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_universe

And here's one from the man himself:




“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe.”"

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 2002 - as reported on the Cinescape site, from Cinescape Magazine

Source: http://www.canonwars.com/SWCanon2.html

This website makes it clear that George has always acted as a consultant role in the non-movie media - games, books and the like. That doesn't (and has now been established) make it absolute canon.

I'm done debating. You're not going to change your mind, and neither will I. You're entitled to your opinion, and I hope you accept mine. I won't judge you for not wanting to watch the new movies but don't begrudge those who actually wants to see where this new direction of Star Wars is going.

[Galvatran]

I am in love with Enfys Nest, her gorgeous red hair, and adorable freckles.
LMAO. Moved on from Rey & Jyn at the drop of a hat. :D

[valkyrie_76]

I enjoyed the movie and this so did the missus. This is her first time watching a Star Wars movie and she loved it.

[bowspearer]

Well I'm sorry but Lucasfilm simply doesn't share your views:

If Lucasfilm disagree with me on these examples, then they've tripped over themselves in spite of themselves your own quotes here prove my point.

You cite the following (http://www.canonwars.com/SWCanon2.html):


“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe.”

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 2002 - as reported on the Cinescape site, from Cinescape Magazine

However you've completely taken this out of context, as Lucas clearly wasn't including the early exceptions here which were not licenced from Lucasfilm. Either that or Lucas had a brain fart when he was saying this.

Star Wars Screen Entertainment, which is what pertains to Solo here, was a fact-file in the form of a screensaver, which was a Lucasfilm project, took its material straight from Lucas' own notes.

Dark Forces was developed in house and personally promoted by Lucas as a Lucasfilm project.

Shadows of the Empire was developed in house. The original vague idea came from LucasArts employee Jon Knoles (not to be confused with Johnj Knoll) who proposed they do a story between ANH and ESB. The reason it focused on Black Sun and the crime boss Prince Xizor is because it was what Lucas had directed. In fact the only thing it lacked, was an actual movie. Name one other Star Wars story that didn't have a blockbuster movie in the 1990s which got its own dedicated toyline. You can't. They don't exist. So what if Steve Perry wrote the novelisation, it was a project that Lucas actively steered and had creative control over.

If you're going to class these things as licensed, then where do you start and stop. Do you say that Alan Dean Forster's Splinters of the Mind script is merely licensed?

What's stopping someone from then turning around and saying that ESB is "Licensed" then, as Lawrence Kasdan wrote it and Irvin Kerschner directed it. Lucas merely produced it.

In fact, Lucas and Kerschner clashed (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2010/10/irvin-kershner) over Han Solo's "I know" line.

The argument which you and the likes of SharkyMcShark are making here is flawed and fails on two grounds. Firstly, as noted, unlike actual EU stuff, none of these projects operated through Lucas Licensing as their main link to the LFL and were ultimately beholden to George's creative vision.

Secondly there's this myopic fallacy. SharkyMcShark writes:

all premised on the fact that thered be no more movies.

Except where the above are concerned, it's utterly false. SWSE and Dark Forces completely predate even the SE version of the Trilogy, while Lucasfilm used Shadows of the Empire as a marketing dry run (http://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/11/11/20-secrets-of-shadows-of-the-empire) for the SE Trilogy.

As for the Holocron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_universe), taking a myopic approach to it has been a complete cluster****.

You quote:


GWL-canon or "G-canon" stood for "George Lucas canon": Marked "GWL" after George Lucas (whose middle name is "Walton")[34]. It included Episodes I–VI (the released films at that time), and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the scripts, filmed deleted scenes, film novelizations, reference books, radio plays, and other primary sources were also G-canon when not in contradiction with the released films.[39] GWL-canon overrode the lower levels of canon when there was a contradiction. In the words of Leland Chee: "George's view of the universe is his view. He's not beholded to what's gone before."[34]

T-canon was Television canon: Referred to the canon level comprising the animated film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the television series Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Many stories wound up superseding those depicted in continuity canon, and the second Clone Wars animated series and its film also overwrote Genndy Tartakovsky's 2003 Clone Wars animated micro-series.[39]

C-canon was Continuity canon: Consisting of [B]most of the materials from the Star Wars Expanded Universe including the books, comics, and videogames bearing the label of Star Wars.[39] According to a Wired article, the creation of stories that introduced radical changes in the continuity, like The Force Unleashed video-game which introduced Darth Vader's secret apprentice, required Lucas's approval, and he spent hours explaining to the developers anything he deemed necessary for them to know.[34] Games and RPG sourcebooks were a special case; the stories and general background information were themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay were, with few exceptions, N-canon.[citation needed]

S-canon was Secondary canon: Covering the same media as C-canon, it was immediately superseded by anything in higher levels of canon in any place where two elements contradicted each other, the non-contradicting elements were still a canon part of the Star Wars universe, this included certain elements of a few N-canon stories.[39] The Star Wars Holiday Special is an example of secondary canon.[34]

It's all well and good to want to come up with levels of canon, but you cannot take a medium and automatically presume that it's going to fit neatly into a category based on the form of media it takes.

None of of the examples I listed fit into that categorisation. SWSE, for example, either slots into GWL canon as it's an in-house fact file, directly sourcing GWL Canon material (eg script notes, GL written character bios, etc). Where it is S-Canon, it is S-Canon in the same way that Splinter of the Mind is S-Canon and the only example of this I can think of prior to the buyout is Owen Lars' backstory. However it for the most part falls under the category of GWL-Canon.

Likewise, Shadows of the Empire, though lacking a blockbuster movie, absolutely falls under the category of GWL canon as it was handled the exact same way by LFL as a blockbuster movie by them would be.

Dark Forces, being in the very early days of video games and developed entirely in-house, should actually belong in T-canon rather than C-canon.

In short, your entire argument is myopically fallacious.

[bowspearer]

And so the point isn't lost in the last post.


I'm done debating. You're not going to change your mind, and neither will I. You're entitled to your opinion, and I hope you accept mine. I won't judge you for not wanting to watch the new movies but don't begrudge those who actually wants to see where this new direction of Star Wars is going.

What a steaming load of horsecrap!

I came into this thread saying I was hesitant about seeing the film because I was worried a key established point about Han and Chewie's relationship might have been thrown on the cutting room floor with Disney's track record regarding Luke's portrayal (which even Mark Hamill has described as essentially being a completely different character) and in house Lucas projects which could have been reasonably believed to be safe under the mouse. The response of several people here, including you has been not to debate – not to exchange information to reach deeper levels of understanding, but to shut me up.

You claim “ I won't judge you for not wanting to watch the new movies” but that's complete garbage. Your attitude and the attitude of others here towards me hasn't been one of “let's agree to disagree”. Rather, it's been one of “STFU, be a good boy and watch your movie you uppity fanboy”, which is actually what prompted my comment about businesses giving customers the bare minimum they'll happily fork over money for - not the other way around.

“Live and let live”? Maybe you and others making the loudest cries of that here should take your own advice.

And someone here was wondering why I might have come across as a little bit irate in this thread :rolleyes:

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I seriously don't get how Disney can get Marvel movies so right, while getting Star Wars movies so screwed up.

Just like in any company you have some good managers and you have some bad ones all under the one roof. Disney isn't so special that it can avoid this.

[shockNwave]

Like when I went to see Rogue One, I've been blown away by Solo and am contemplating a second viewing.
I'm not going to try comparing Rogue One and Solo because they're such different creatures. So here are some points I'd like to make about this movie:

1. This is the third movie to not include reference to the Jedi and the Force. If my memory serves me correctly, the other two are Caravan of Courage (1984) and The Battle for Endor (1985) which are also spin-offs.

2. Qi'ra is a well rounded character (and credit to Emilia Clarke's acting) who is no damsel in distress but a tough chick with a tender side and reminds me of Leia but with treachery thrown in. Which explains why Han and Leia have such a bumpy courtship. Han doesn't want to be burnt again.

3. Oh dear. That L3-37 is the droid equivalent of Jar Jar Binks. Trying so hard to be funny and ends up coming across as annoying and weird. I was happy to see that machine get blown to pieces.

4. After seeing his turn as a villain in Firewall I knew Paul Bettany would deliver the goods once again as Dryden Vos.

5. Considering that Enfys Nest is the founder of what becomes the rebel alliance it would be interesting to see a movie that shows how Enfys turned her rag tag group into the threat to the empire we've all come to know. It would be more entertaining than a movie about Bobba Fett.

6. The scene inside the maelstrom involving the tentacled creature and the maw is a wonderful example of two action set pieces rolled into one and the highlight of the movie.


I'm not angry, it just saddens me to see how the property has been handled under Disney. I seriously don't get how Disney can get Marvel movies so right, while getting Star Wars movies so screwed up.

The work of Mr. Lucas is said to draw inspiration from Tolkien (even though Lucas denies it) and if you've seen the appendices and companion books of/connected to Tolkien you'll see there is a vast amount of rich detail covering languages, races, geography, genealogy, religions and history. Marvel comics are not as detailed in comparison and therefore easier to make into movies. I assume Disney just doesn't have the time for meticulous scholarly detail.

[bowspearer]

The work of Mr. Lucas is said to draw inspiration from Tolkien (even though Lucas denies it) and if you've seen the appendices and companion books of/connected to Tolkien you'll see there is a vast amount of rich detail covering languages, races, geography, genealogy, religions and history. Marvel comics are not as detailed in comparison and therefore easier to make into movies. I assume Disney just doesn't have the time for meticulous scholarly detail.

Which at the end of the day is a real problem - in fact it's financial suicide. Here's the thing. When a company forks out billions on a property, it's because they look at how profitable it is. Logically, when you're forking out that much on an investment, then you want to maximise your profits by using that property in the ways which made it work to begin with.

This strategy of trading on the name and cynically pandering to certain groups, might work in the short term, but it will always have a shelf life. And yes, that's exactly what they're doing is. George Lucas wasn't thinking "end racism" when he made Lando and making him a "black character" - he was simply a good character who happened to be of colour.

George Lucas certainly wasn't thinking "girl power" when he created Princess Leia - she's just a well written female leader. She isn't a Mar-Rey Sue either. Yet look at how memorable, profound, identifiable and powerful a character she is.

When you're shamelessly pandering to a group you go out of your way to make <token character with a label>. When you actually care about those groups and actually want to empower them, you just make them great characters, where <insert group label here> simply exists in the background, but doesn't define them.

And again, it seems that this movie is a casualty of that from what I just read on a Screen Rant article (https://screenrant.com/solo-star-wars-han-met-chewbacca/) - as in of the time of typing this response. The original story of how Han met Chewie and the life debt should have been kept as is. It was the story of a brilliant Imperial officer who graduated top of his class and could possibly even have been a Grand Moff in his later years. Instead, he committed mutiny on his superiors to save Chewie from cruelty - the EU novelisation which adapted that bit of originally GWL canon - even had him intervening to save Chewie's life.

Everything about hating races deemed inferior, racial cruelty, Social Darwinism, racial enslavement, standing up to institutionalised power against bigotry, no matter the cost: it was all there.

Instead the story was trashed for some cheap escape plot and the need to "make the white jock face his own internal biases and check his human privilege".

It was needless, and it destroyed everything beautiful about the relationship between Han and Chewie and just how special that life debt was and what Han gave up to stand up for a "lesser slave race", when his every vested interest was to look the other way.

Not only did it make the same social commentary as it was, but it was a thing of beauty. It didn't need improving and it didn't need to be made flashier or more exciting. It should have simply been lifted from the original character backstory George wrote and put straight on the screen.

And this is the thing. The problem isn't diversity, it's how Disney is handling it. A person of colour, an LGBTIQ+ individual, those of us with disabilities, men and women - we're all more than just labels. Labels don't tell the entirety of a person's backstory, their character, their interests, their abilities or their future. In fact the very notion that it does, which is what diversity pandering does - despite its claims to the contrary - is a patronising form of homophobia, racism, ableism, sexism, misogyny, and so the list goes on.

If Disney actually cared about doing this franchise justice, they'd simply concentrate on a rich lore, good storytelling and compelling characters - where those labels were simply there in the background but didn't define the characters. That's how you empower minorities - not by slapping a big minority label on the character in some cheap patronising show of pandering, but by presenting amazing characters who are capable of amazing things - and who just happen to fit the label. The former boxes people into labels. The later sends those same minorities the powerful message that contrary to the bigotry they face, their labels don't define them and they can achieve anything they put their mind to. Just look at Static Shock as a great example of that in terms of characters.

And before someone tries to claim otherwise, as a disabled Australian who has faced abuse and discrimination because of it for most of their life, I absolutely have every right to say that and I do know what I'm talking about.

Lucas understood it, hence the idea of the every[hu]man. It's what made it so powerful and resonate so strongly with all of us. Until Disney gets that, they're never going to recapture the magic that was previously there and the hollow shell that remains is going to have a use-by date the moment the lustre fades.

It's a tragic shame really.

[shockNwave]

Today I came across the news that Solo has flopped at the box office and most heavily outside of America. I knew Solo was going to be fighting an uphill battle due to it's release date being not long after Deadpool 2 (most successful R-rated movie opening weekend) and of course the super epic Infinity War.

So what do Thor:Ragnarok, Black Panther, Infinity War and Deadpool 2 have in common? Innovation and outside the square thinking.
What do The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi and Solo have in common? A struggle to be innovative and outside the square.

As much as I like these three Star Wars movies, I cannot put them as equals to those aforementioned Marvel movies. So bowspearer, at least there's some positivity to be drawn from this.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Yeah I read that it opened worse than Justice League which is not a good sign. Costs blow outs from the reshoots put a higher figure on breaking even (est. $500 million).

People cite franchise fatigue which is doubtful given how well MCU performs. Certainly backlash from TLJ had an effect. There was naff all promotional efforts - trailers and merchandise came in late as well. TLJ had 8 months of ongoing promos.

[bowspearer]

As much as I like these three Star Wars movies, I cannot put them as equals to those aforementioned Marvel movies. So bowspearer, at least there's some positivity to be drawn from this.

I'm not so sure there is. Given how much everyone is citing "Star Wars Fatigue", I honestly think Disney will use it as a convenient out, rather than recognising that the real problem is that the glorified accountant they put at the helm of Lucasfilm is no doubt great at handling the financials, but when it comes to creative vision, she's clearly out of her depth (they really need someone like Dave Filoni in the role who does come from a creative background and rose to prominence because of it).

[griffin]

The session I was at on Sunday (just three days after its opening), there were only about 15 people in the theatre.
I was really surprised at the low turnout just days into its opening and on a weekend, because it was a lot less than I was expecting, despite not expecting too much from the movie (due to the odd choice of actor and it feeling more like a TV episode than an epic cinema movie).

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

If this article isn't fake news, then it's pretty bad:

https://mumbrella.com.au/solo-a-marketing-disaster-story-519700


After Scott Rhodie received a $77 ticket to watch Solo: A Star Wars Story three hours before anyone else in Australia, he was more than a little disappointed after he realised 400 of the 500-strong crowd were paid actors.

[Ralph Wiggum]

If this article isn't fake news, then it's pretty bad:

https://mumbrella.com.au/solo-a-marketing-disaster-story-519700

Lol, who the hell would pay $77 for the "privilege" to watch a movie three hours earlier than the rest of Australia, along with some cheap merchandise. If true, no wonder it undersold.

[Meister]

Watched the Solo movie last night, definitely entertaining, with some cool action / chase sequences. Donald Glover was great as Lando. Woody Harrelson was also pretty solid as Beckett. Alden did a good job performance wise (not entirely happy with some of his dialogue, some lines felt a bit out of character for Han), he did take the character on and made it his own rather than trying to copy Harrison Ford which I think was the right direction to go, BUT admittedly, and this is with no intended criticism of his performance, it was still hard for me to think of him as Han Solo (to be honest I think tyring to remove Harrison Ford from that character is impossible, much like Indiana Jones, those characters are Harrison Ford).

I also agree with the comment that there really was no character development with Han throughout this movie, basically he is the same at the end as he was at the beginning, so it doesn’t really give any insight on how he became the character we all love, its sort of like he was just always that way.

In terms of plot, a lot of things I didn’t get and thought were a bit ??? (i.e. a certain hologram at the end), but I think a lot can also be put down to its direction, which really does feel like belonging to two completely different directors with different visions in some parts, and it most definitely comes across as being “Disneyfied”.

But all up it’s a fun movie (which might be where it kind of falters with my personal taste for this particular kind of flick), I personally wouldn’t rank it better than Rogue One (that definitely felt more like a proper Star Wars movie), even though I enjoyed watching the Han and Chewy friendship development and the interactions with Lando.

If you’re a Star Wars fan, I think its worth a watch at the cinema’s, the visual effects are still great, the throw in's to previous references are pretty cool (although I didn’t think were entirely necessary) and like I said at the start, it is a fun and entertaining movie.

[shockNwave]

I'm not so sure there is. Given how much everyone is citing "Star Wars Fatigue", I honestly think Disney will use it as a convenient out, rather than recognising that the real problem is that the glorified accountant they put at the helm of Lucasfilm is no doubt great at handling the financials, but when it comes to creative vision, she's clearly out of her depth (they really need someone like Dave Filoni in the role who does come from a creative background and rose to prominence because of it).

I take it this 'glorified accountant' you're referring to is Kathleen Kennedy. It remains to be seen if she succeeds in doing to Star Wars what the greedy executives at Atari did to Atari and the golden age of consoles. Which was to send them into a tail spin from which they never recovered.

BTW Did Mr. Lucas sell the Star Wars franchise because he nor anyone else would ever be able to restore it to it's former glory?

[bowspearer]

I take it this 'glorified accountant' you're referring to is Kathleen Kennedy. It remains to be seen if she succeeds in doing to Star Wars what the greedy executives at Atari did to Atari and the golden age of consoles. Which was to send them into a tail spin from which they never recovered.

Yes I am referring to Kathleen Kennedy. Her role has always been as an Executive Producer prior to this, so her role was to handle the finances. Considering I've heard others refer to her as "George Lucas' coffee lady", I think "Glorified Accountant" is on the incredibly tame end of things she could be called.


BTW Did Mr. Lucas sell the Star Wars franchise because he nor anyone else would ever be able to restore it to it's former glory?

I've heard people say he was sick and tired of the fan hate. Personally I think the prequel trilogy's problems fall into two categories if what I've heard is true. I forget where, but I recall hearing that the plan with Jar Jar was for him to be a dark foreshadowing of Yoda (which if you actually stop to imagine it playing out with an open mind, is actually pretty awesome and leads you to hating the character for the right reasons - because of how cruel, sadistic and nasty he actually winds up being), but in a moment of shortsighted stupidity, Dennis Muren talked him out of it.

The other thing is that while I think TPM would have worked better than it does if he'd stayed the course with the alleged Sith Jar Jar plot, he clearly forgot what worked with the OT. While George directed ANH, he gave the reigns over to others when the movies took on a different tone. I recently read that Irvin Kerschner would have jumped at the chance to direct one of the prequels and the one I think he should have directed, should have been AOTC and possibly even ROTS as well. I think that his directorial sensibilities would have probably done a better job of giving us the intensity Lucas wanted out of Christensen, but in a much more palatable way, which resonated with audiences more.

I actually don't think it's impossible for Star Wars to find new glory days. However if the PT and the current Disney era are lessons of what not to do, I think that there are a couple of key points which should be looked at.

Firstly, whoever does this needs to understand mythology and have such a profound understanding of it and the heroes journey that they can apply it to this vast sprawling universe. Anyone who challenges that and clearly can't see the forest for the trees, needs to be told to move to one side; they'll be proven wrong once it all hits the big screen anyway.

Secondly, make sure the director is the right fit. ESB was what it was because Lucas recognised that his style wouldn't work for it, but Kerschner's would. That's the key here, someone whose style fits and who can put their ego aside long enough to recognise their movie's place in the larger scheme of things (yes Rian Johnson, I'm looking at you).

If those things happened, I think there's no reason we couldn't see Star Wars heading back to it's former greatness.

[bowspearer]

Since I know how crazy the whole thing I said about Jar Jar might sound, try this on for size.


Geonosis.

Anakin and Obi-Wan charge into the hangar bay of the caverns, expecting to find Count Dooku and confront him.

To their shock, dressed in black sith robes and turning around to face them is none other than Jar Jar Bink.

As the two Jedi stand dumbfounded at the unbelievable sight, Jar Jar addresses them.

JAR JAR: [somber tone] Games up now huh?

Before the two can respond and with the slightest move of his wrist, he force grabs Obi-Wan and slams him hard by the head twice against the ceiling, then drops him on the floor, before bringing that section of the ceiling crashing down on him.

Anakin, confused and compromised, tries to plead with Jar Jar.

Anakin: I sense the Dark side in you, but this isn't like you. It's not too late to turn back.

Jar Jar adopts a seemingly sorry expression.

JAR JAR: Oh no, meesa so sorry Ani, you so right....

Jar Jar's expression then turns malicious.

JAR JAR: You pathetic.

Jar Jar's eyes gesture to the bludgeoned and unconscious Obi Wan on the floor.

JAR JAR: Can't save Master....

Jar Jar adopts a gleefully sadistic grin.

JAR JAR: Can't save Ma-mi!

Anakin is shaken, trying to regain his composure, the anger rising within him, starting to drown his gaze and his expression, struggling to maintain control. Before he can respond, Jar Jar's expression becomes even more sadistic, making it all too clear he was responsible for Shmi's.

JAR JAR: How you like meesa gift?

Anakin: No.....

JAR JAR: Meesa feel yousa anger. Good. Strike meesa down, make meesa pay.

Anakin: I wont fight you.

Jar Jar sneers implyingly, with a gaze of mock concern

JAR JAR: Then Padme go all bombad.

Anakin explodes in a sea of rage, confusion and betrayal, charging in with his lightsaber ignited, ready to strike down his former childhood friend. As he lunges down with his lightsaber, Jar Jar trips backwards, sidestepping the blow, as he brings his own crimson lightsaber up, striking back with a force which knocks the young apprentice off balance. Anakin recovers, delivering what should be successful blow after blow, only to have Jar Jar make seemingly clumsy steps each time a blow is about to be landed - the Sith Master seemingly dodging each blow miraculously and striking back in a way which sends the apprentice off balance. After a few blows, a sadistic sneer forms on the Sith's face, not merely blocking this time, but scratching the jedi's leg with just enough of the end of the blade to scorch the skin.

Anakin howls in agony.

JAR JAR: Good meesa feel yousa hate; let it grow!

Anakin, tries lunging again, this time his mobility greatly limited, only for Jar J to this time dodge, slice off half his arm and force throw him hard against the rubble next to Obi-Wan.

Jar Jar's expression changes to one of seriousness.

JAR JAR: Meesa sense yousa, old man.

Suddenly Yoda walks into the room on his cane.

YODA: Drops his mask, the fool does - I see. Ends now, your reign of terror does- Jar Jar Binks, or should I say, Darth Plageus

JAR JAR: Meesa mask sure fool yousa - old bombad.

Jar Jar flickes his wrist, only for Yoda to hurl the force to the side, cratering the side of the wall. Irritated, Jar Jar then sends a large wave of lightning at Yoda immediately catches it with his hand, the ball 3 times the size of his hand once he has collected it all, then fires the ball back at Jar Jar, who sends it exploding up into the ceiling.

YODA: Strong with you, the Dark Side is, fight well you do.

JAR JAR: Meesa see da force not settle this.

Yoda sudddenly charges in with his lightsaber drawn, sommersaulting in with blow after blow, as Jar Jar stumbles out of the way, but before he can throw Yoda off balance with a blow, the Jedi Master leaps in the air and strikes from a new angle. The two are evenly matched; one cannot best the other. Suddenly as the two stand deadlocked with sabers clashing, Jar Jar brings a pillar crashing down upon Anakin. Jar Jar sneers.

JAR JAR: Yousa so wise. Choose.

Yoda focuses on lifting the pillar while Jar Jar escapes in the nearby shuttle.

I'l admit part of it is rough as I was filling in gaps as I typed it, but this is basically how I envisaged AOTC ending if they went with the Sith Jar Jar plot - where Jar Jar is a cruel, sadistic and manipulative Sith, who passes those very mind games onto his apprentice - Darth Sidious - with great success.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I take it this 'glorified accountant' you're referring to is Kathleen Kennedy. It remains to be seen if she succeeds in doing to Star Wars what the greedy executives at Atari did to Atari and the golden age of consoles. Which was to send them into a tail spin from which they never recovered.

She's trying:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/disney-shares-dip-after-franchise-low-debut-for-star-wars-prequel.html

[drifand]

This movie is at least twice better than last Jedi. I felt it was better than Rogue one for me. And yes the twist in the end is a way to make people excited what’s next. I didn’t feel this in last Jedi one bit. Is a shame that their pr screwed up and to be still in the wondering why solo done so bad when people can just google and say why says a lot about denial.

I feel sad for Star Wars. Transformers isn’t a worry, bay can stuff it up it doesn’t bug me a single bit as the cartoon will always remain intact and true.
I can’t say the same for Star Wars as what is shown affects past and present.

[Bumblebee2000]

It's one thing to do a scene-by-scene impression, it's another to play the role independently.

Same guy
https://youtu.be/oOmyuweolqY?t=9m10s

Also acted in flashbacks for Harrison Ford's character in a film but I don't remember what it is called and "Chewie get the pipes" is the example I'd go with anyway.
Yeah voice acting is still different, but closer than an impression.
As it is I though Alden was alright, though any chance of an objective opinion for this film went out the window the second that hologram turned on. Can't trust my own thoughts now because they are absolutely biased and I really wasn't expecting this character to cause that reaction after they've already done what I wanted to see done with them elsewhere.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Can we get a spoiler tag added to the title? Would really like to discuss the hologram scene without any complaints of spoilers.

[drifand]

Can we get a spoiler tag added to the title? Would really like to discuss the hologram scene without any complaints of spoilers.

Note: It can also be spoiler for Episode nine.

[shockNwave]

Secondly, make sure the director is the right fit. ESB was what it was because Lucas recognised that his style wouldn't work for it, but Kerschner's would. That's the key here, someone whose style fits and who can put their ego aside long enough to recognise their movie's place in the larger scheme of things (yes Rian Johnson, I'm looking at you).

If those things happened, I think there's no reason we couldn't see Star Wars heading back to it's former greatness.

If I understand your second point correctly, it looks like bringing more of a dark feel to the proceedings is a breath of fresh air and if so, then Rogue One is a good example as it ends with many good guys dying and the rebel fleet being smashed (which is more acceptable thanks to the impact made by Game of Thrones capacity to turn storytelling on it's head).

[Jetfire in the sky]

Note: It can also be spoiler for Episode nine.

Probably not, the hologram "ends" in Star Wars Rebels.

Its an epic arc and must watch.

[drifand]

Probably not, the hologram "ends" in Star Wars Rebels.

Its an epic arc and must watch.

ah...but I am not talking about the hologram. :)

[Maruten]

It's a shame this has bombed. I saw it on the weekend in a packed cinema that seemed to be having a great time, but apparently that's an anomaly. I loved it. It's obviously a different kind of film, but it's not trying to be part of the core trilogies. It's just pure Star wars-branded fun.

L3 is obviously going to be divisive but I think she was brilliant and I've been pleased to see other people in the fandom saying the same, though again obviously that praise will not be universal!

When the movie was announced and after they cast Ehrenreich, I did certainly share the entire planet Earth's concern that you can't replace Harrison Ford and this obviously wasn't going to work, but once I got into the cinema there was not a single second where I didn't buy Ehrenreich as Han. It's certainly no worse than McGregor as Kenobi.

It's not a perfect movie but for the sheer level of fun (and absence of dry, boring crap) I would call it one of my favourite SW movies and I think it will be one of my favourite movies of the year.

Still, there's clearly a powerful lesson here for Disney... even a Star Wars movie story can flop.

[Lord_Zed]

So another year another divisive Star Wars film, seems everything has to be divisive these days.

Anyway Solo didn't fly with me, while there's was nothing really terrible about it, there was nothing daring or interesting about it either, it was so mediocre I found myself falling asleep in the cinema, as well as just forgetting what happened while I was watching the movie.

While many of the flaws are shared by Rogue One, unlike Rogue One nothing in this film thrilled me, and for some reason the lighting in almost every shot was really dark so it wasn't even interesting to look at. The whole thing could have been a lesser episode of Rebels.

So far my least favourite of the Disney Star Wars films as well as those films I've seen this year.

I really hope they try something new for the next spin off.

[SMHFConvoy]

As always, Bob Chipman nails it. (https://youtu.be/jrusTEvgxgI)

[Ralph Wiggum]

As always, Bob Chipman nails it. (https://youtu.be/jrusTEvgxgI)

Brutal. But I loved his impression of millenial youtubers the best.

[M-bot]

Saw the movie last night. Quite liked it! I didn’t think it was necessary to cram in explanations for every single facet of Solo’s past referred to in other films (ie the Kessel run, meeting Chewie, how he got his blaster, etc) but it’s certainly no worse than River Phoenix’s turn as young Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade film.

As I said before, I went into the film with a fairly open mind and choosing to ignore the “hobgoblins of continuity” and lo and behold! Ended up having a pretty good time.

As a film it is at least competent. Not Earth-shatteringly brilliant. I think it’s no wonder that those that were expecting the latter are so embittered.

[Lord_Zed]

As always, Bob Chipman nails it. (https://youtu.be/jrusTEvgxgI)

Agreed, at first I wasn't sure, but he won me over in the end.

Time to take Star Wars of the pillar we nerds put it on.

[drifand]

'Solo' Will Lose $50M-Plus in First Defeat for Disney's 'Star Wars' Empire

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927


This is due to Kathleen with poor decision making etc....

[SMHFConvoy]

'Solo' Will Lose $50M-Plus in First Defeat for Disney's 'Star Wars' Empire

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927

This is due to Kathleen with poor decision making etc....

So? It hasn't ruined anything or even hurt the brand. They put the movie out at the same time as Infinity War and some other movies, they'll still make Episode 9 and a bunch of other SW movies.

They'll probably do well at Christmas with the Solo home release.

[griffin]

For every dollar they might lose with this movie, they will make 10 or more from licensing of toys and merchandise.

It was a long time investment by Disney, and as I had mentioned previously, they will (over)milk the brand as much as possible.... and movies are just one avenue.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

It's not so much the money, but the bad PR that has resulted from all of this.

When you even have shills like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HtqN5FAK38

Saying Kennedy should step down, it's not a good look.

Kennedy hiring and firing multiple directors (Josh Trank, Gareth Edwards, Colin Trevorrow, Phil Lord, Chris Miller) makes her look massively incompetent. Couple that with a loss, and tanking in foreign markets, for instance China (https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/05/24/box-office-solo-a-star-wars-story-stumbles-out-of-the-gate-in-china/#4e6e102861b4):


China sampled the goods with Episode VII and decided to pass. And the franchise has been beset by diminishing returns each time out. Rogue One dropped 45% from Force Awakens. Last Jedi dropped 45% from Rogue One. And it looks like Solo is going to drop around 45% from Last Jedi. At this rate, Star Wars 9 will be lucky to earn $11.38 million in China.

And it's still a PR nightmare even if they make money back on home releases and other merchandise.

[drifand]

Is a PR nightmware, is not about so what?

I can tell you right now, the more they take their time in rectifying Star Wars where its has gone wrong, the more money it looses.

You can throw more money into toys, Many people are not biting in fact TLJ ones are alarming even for lego.

And if people are not aware, Disney are NOW listening to the fans which was what Kathleen and Rian refused to care about. I don't know abut you guys but honestly TLJ would have walked quietly if the two didn't say anything wrong but the problem is they offended a lot. These things cost the franchise millions.

It may not be a big deal to you, but Disney is actually worried as this is NOT what they wanted. The brand is not ruined but is already fractured, this should not even happen by far. Solo is the beginning.

I remembered people saying this was a minority? just a bunch of disgruntled fanboys? I didn't know that was worth 50 mil? wow? or are we forgetting these disgruntled fanboys have families and also influences what the family watches? Or toys thathe/she will allow their kids to buy?

It not just a movie folks, everything you built on the brand can be brought down just by saying the wrong thing to the people who supported your brand. Everything.

[SMHFConvoy]

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

[Ralph Wiggum]

We should also hate on the actors and actresses as well because reasons.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

If you know a person is difficult to work with then why take the risk and hire them in the first place?

Lord and Miller were fired over creative differences (https://www.eonline.com/news/862267/star-wars-untitled-han-solo-directors-leave-film-over-creative-differences):


"Unfortunately, our vision and process weren’t aligned with our partners on this project. We normally aren’t fans of the phrase 'creative differences' but for once this cliché is true. We are really proud of the amazing and world-class work of our cast and crew."


We should also hate on the actors and actresses as well because reasons.

So actors can't be critiqued and we must suck them off at every turn?

[Ralph Wiggum]

So actors can't be critiqued and we must suck them off at every turn?

Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/kelly-marie-tran-racists-last-jedi_us_5a4400fee4b06d1621b6b2bb

And she’s just closed her instagram account.

Edit: for the record I’m not accusing or implying anyone here is that toxic

[bowspearer]

If I understand your second point correctly, it looks like bringing more of a dark feel to the proceedings is a breath of fresh air and if so, then Rogue One is a good example as it ends with many good guys dying and the rebel fleet being smashed (which is more acceptable thanks to the impact made by Game of Thrones capacity to turn storytelling on it's head).

In part, but only if you're going to work with what exists. Case in point, Rogue one with a couple of tweeks could have worked. All they needed to do was remove the Dark Troopers from the movie and go one of two ways. The first, which I'm not as much of a fan of, would have been a throwaway line which suggested that Kyle Katarn's copy of the plans had been boobytrapped with a trojan horse of some kind, requiring a second copy.

The second would have been for the Rogue One to end in defeat with all the characters dead in the end - followed on by a scene at the end, with Mon Montha contacting a young Kyle Katarn about striking a top secret second installation. Furthermore the hiring a high priced ace mercenary after Rebel Special Forces team got wiped out, smells of the kind of desperation which would drive such a decision.

And that's the problem - if Disney were respecting the material and working with it, then there wouldn't be half the problems there are.


I remembered people saying this was a minority? just a bunch of disgruntled fanboys? I didn't know that was worth 50 mil? wow? or are we forgetting these disgruntled fanboys have families and also influences what the family watches? Or toys thathe/she will allow their kids to buy?

Didn't you know, we're just a bunch of "uppity cishet white patriarchal s***lords who need to check their privilege". :rolleyes:


So? It hasn't ruined anything or even hurt the brand. They put the movie out at the same time as Infinity War and some other movies, they'll still make Episode 9 and a bunch of other SW movies.

They'll probably do well at Christmas with the Solo home release.

Actually Disney's share price dropped one percent directly due to Solo and has dropped 6% for the year to date, making the brand more liability than asset to Disney at this point: https://movieweb.com/solo-star-wars-story-disney-shares-drop-box-office-bomb/


Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Actually her handling of fans is a serious part of the problem. You don't grow your business by treating customers like they don't matter and then telling them to piss off. Yet that's exactly what her approach has been.

All this attacking of males and particularly white males, who have largely and traditionally been the core audience of Star Wars, is financial stupidity. Anyone with her business experience should well be aware that when growing new markets for your product, you do so in a manner which doesn't alienate your core market.

All the problems which people have with The Last Jedi, wouldn't have been met with anywhere near the animosity they have if fans simply felt that this was a misstep (which it was - Johnson essentially tossed Abrams' plans for the trilogy on a dumpster fire and cause Colin Trevorrow to quit, while losing the plot so much that even Mark Hamill describe his character in it as "Jake Skywalker"), they were being heard, they were being valued, Disney cared about the Lore and things were going to be corrected in Episode 9.

That didn't happen. If a person walks into a store or a restaurant, gets terrible service, then gets abused by the staff, they're going to walk away, feel burned, never go back and tell all their friends to do the same.

That's exactly what happened here. TLJ is the most divisive Star Wars film to date and Kathleen Kennedy and the likes of Rian Johnson, have done nothing but fan the flames and add fuel to the fire. So how can anyone be surprised when much like with a bad store or restaurant experience, fans give Lucasfilm the finger by voting with their wallets.

The fact is that as the public face of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy has been a terrible brand ambassador for the product - which in this case, is Star Wars.


Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

That will increase your costs, but it isn't to blame for the low turnout. In terms of the story there, Ron Howard was still able to crank out a workable movie in the end.

The problem is how this film was handled. People have commented that the trailers for Solo weren't as good or strategically placed as with Rogue One, there were debacles like removing the blaster from Han and Lando in movie posters which made people expect the worst, and as stated about, there was nothing to suggest to people who didn't like TLJ, that this movie would be any different than TLJ in terms of problems with it.

Also, let's be clear, Deadpool 2 had been out a week prior and Infinity War was already in cinemas for a couple of weeks prior. It wasn't competing with either film for an opening weekend. Likewise, the whole argument about it opening on the Memorial Day Weekend, was that it was supposed to be like playing tennis with the net down - there was no real competition for it in terms of opening weekends.

Yet it got hammered. Furthermore, up until now, other movies haven't been a threat to Star Wars, but rather it's been the other way around - where other movies lost money because they opened against Star Wars.

No matter how much people try and blame it just on Star Wars fatigue and directorial problems, it wont change the fact that the biggest problem has been that the brand has been damaged with cinemagoers due to repeated PR debacles.


But hey you know dude's are infallible.

I don't see anyone here saying that there weren't issues with male directors.

However why are you so threatened by acknowledging the concept that female corporate spokespeople and leaders are fallible?

After all, how is judging a female corporate spokesperson positively based on what is between her legs, rather than merit, any better than judging them negatively based on what is between their legs, rather than on merit.

After all, true equality means equality of accountability as well as equality of opportunity.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/kelly-marie-tran-racists-last-jedi_us_5a4400fee4b06d1621b6b2bb

And she’s just closed her instagram account.

Edit: for the record I’m not accusing or implying anyone here is that toxic

I agree, there is toxicity running through the fandom, whether it's racism, like what happened to Kelly Tran, or whether it's race-baiting like this (https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/05/29/as-solo-a-star-wars-story-flops-are-movies-about-white-men-box-office-poison/#3448a635d49e), it has to stop.

[bowspearer]

I agree, there is toxicity running through the fandom, whether it's racism, like what happened to Kelly Tran, or whether it's race-baiting like this (https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/05/29/as-solo-a-star-wars-story-flops-are-movies-about-white-men-box-office-poison/#3448a635d49e), it has to stop.

Seconded, there's absolutely no excuse for it. Furthermore,not only is it unnecessary, but it only cheapens legitimate concerns regarding Disney's handling of the franchise. In short, noone really wins in the end with it.

The problem is that it's like there's two opposing groups of Sith on each side.

There's those who racebait and and harass people, and then there's the SJW crowd who just want to shut up anyone who dares take issue with their culutral Marxist masterpiece as they clearly see it.

To these ideologues , Star Wars movies are "just movies". Yet the same ideologues have dogmatically decided that it is entirely justifiable to mock, troll and silence anyone who takes issue with them for any reason - thereby committing the "heresy" of daring to fail to worship the ground they walk on. They then demand that the "heretic" look up the definition of irony when their hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

I just had to block three trolls on facebook tonight because I dared take issue with George's backstory for Han and Chewie being discarded by the new movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure who's worse. Yes the haters act absolutely abominably, but at least they can recognise at some level that they're behaving horribly and with a healthy dose of keyboard courage.

Not even the prequel debates polarised people this much, and the heat Lucas copped caused him to sell Lucasfilm off to Disney just to be rid of it.

At this point, Star Wars, at least in terms of the community, is fractured beyond repair and ruined.

Maybe the fandom will unite, but given the damage, the ever increasing divide between those who want the mythos respected and those pushing their own agendas and the vitriol on both extremes which is creeping increasingly towards the centre, I really don't see how the damage can be undone and the rift repaired.

[Trent]

Seconded, there's absolutely no excuse for it. Furthermore,not only is it unnecessary, but it only cheapens legitimate concerns regarding Disney's handling of the franchise. In short, noone really wins in the end with it.

The problem is that it's like there's two opposing groups of Sith on each side.

There's those who racebait and and harass people, and then there's the SJW crowd who just want to shut up anyone who dares take issue with their culutral Marxist masterpiece as they clearly see it.

To these ideologues , Star Wars movies are "just movies". Yet the same ideologues have dogmatically decided that it is entirely justifiable to mock, troll and silence anyone who takes issue with them for any reason - thereby committing the "heresy" of daring to fail to worship the ground they walk on. They then demand that the "heretic" look up the definition of irony when their hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

I just had to block three trolls on facebook tonight because I dared take issue with George's backstory for Han and Chewie being discarded by the new movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure who's worse. Yes the haters act absolutely abominably, but at least they can recognise at some level that they're behaving horribly and with a healthy dose of keyboard courage.

Not even the prequel debates polarised people this much, and the heat Lucas copped caused him to sell Lucasfilm off to Disney just to be rid of it.

At this point, Star Wars, at least in terms of the community, is fractured beyond repair and ruined.

Maybe the fandom will unite, but given the damage, the ever increasing divide between those who want the mythos respected and those pushing their own agendas and the vitriol on both extremes which is creeping increasingly towards the centre, I really don't see how the damage can be undone and the rift repaired.

Nope.

This shitfight of extremes between the fandom is not “creeping toward the centre”. It’s the stupid “If you’re not with me, you’re against me!!” mentality that those on the edges display because they don’t want to admit there is a centre, because if there is a centre, and you’re not in it, well then you’re a crazy fanboy.

The SW fandom likes to think it is the majority and that the things they think, say and do can have an impact. But I guarantee you that Disney understands that the majority of the people that rock up to a Star Wars movie don’t give a shit about whether Disney is respecting ol’ George’s original vision about Han and Chewie because they don’t know and frankly, don’t care. They haven’t spent hours reading EU books and comics that perpetuated the boring, one dimensional character that Luke was to be horrified when he threw aside his lightsaber (the cinema I was in erupted in laughter). Most of the people that see a Star Wars movie just want to be entertained by space wizards with laser swords and see space ships, wacky droids, and Stormtroopers missing whatever they’re aiming for. If tomorrow you asked 90% of the people that saw TLJ at the movies who Rian Johnson was, they wouldn’t have a clue. Hell, I consider myself a pretty decent Star Wars fan and I couldn’t even tell you the name of the guy that directed my favourite SW movie, ESB without looking it up.

I think that the assertion that Solo “failed” because of the direction Disney has taken is just utter trash. It’s not because the lead was white, it’s not because Rian Johnson ruined our lives, it’s not because Kathleen Kennedy hates SW fans. It’s because the majority of the movie goers, like me, are a bit over the frequency of Star Wars films. It’s burnout. Simple.

And no, SW cannot be compared to the MCU because they are vastly different in what they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

At least the Transformers fandom (to a degree) understands this. That while most fans think the Bay movies sucked, we understood we were not the target audience.

TL;DR: Star Wars fandom needs to extract its head from its own anus.

[bowspearer]

The SW fandom likes to think it is the majority and that the things they think, say and do can have an impact.

Yes and no, I don't think the majority are the SW fandom, but it's myopic to think they're not going to have an impact because casual moviegoers outnumber them. In investment terms, the SW fandom is the equivalent of Blue Chips investments - the safe core of your investment portfolio; yes you want to attract other audiences, but it's foolish to alienate that audience, because in the days of social media, they are just as crucial a part of generating hype as everyone else. Remove that hype or worse, generate a negative buzz around it, and that is something which the casual moviegoer is going to pick up on.


I think that the assertion that Solo “failed” because of the direction Disney has taken is just utter trash.

Only if you ignore the impact fans will have on the buzz around a movie in this social media age.


it’s not because Kathleen Kennedy hates SW fans.

Again though, alienating fans is going to affect the buzz surrounding the movie, so you can't realistically look at this in a vacuum.


But I guarantee you that Disney understands that the majority of the people that rock up to a Star Wars movie don’t give a shit about whether Disney is respecting ol’ George’s original vision about Han and Chewie because they don’t know and frankly, don’t care. They haven’t spent hours reading EU books and comics that perpetuated the boring, one dimensional character that Luke was to be horrified when he threw aside his lightsaber (the cinema I was in erupted in laughter). Most of the people that see a Star Wars movie just want to be entertained by space wizards with laser swords and see space ships, wacky droids, and Stormtroopers missing whatever they’re aiming for.

I completely agree that the casual movie-goer simply wants to have a good time and see an enjoyable movie and aren't going to get hung up on canon. However they are going to be swayed by whether the buzz around a particular Star Wars movie is good or bad and base their decision to watch it on that to a reasonable extent. The thing is that it's the fans who will pay that much attention and do care about things like respect for canon, who are going to create that buzz- either good or bad.

Remember, the most effective form of advertising is word-of-mouth.


It’s because the majority of the movie goers, like me, are a bit over the frequency of Star Wars films. It’s burnout. Simple.

That doesn't hold true though. If the hype were there, then people would be turning up in droves - even if it was 6 months apart; Black Panther's proximity to Infinity War is a textbook example of this. The fact is that TLJ was divisive and had mixed reviews, while Disney alienated the fandom rather than reaching out to them, whereby they would have generated hype about Solo. That didn't happen, so what marketing that was done, wasn't supported or hyped up anywhere near as much as it could have been. The end result was a killed-off buzz around this movie - hence a feeling of fatigue among general moviegoers.

And no, that's not saying that casual movie-goers don't matter compared to fans; rather it is saying that with established franchises, while casual movie-goers get swept up in and ride the wave created by the hype, it is the fandom which is the group which is instrumental in creating that wave to begin with. Without that wave, there's simply nothing for casual movie-goers to get swept up in to begin with.


And no, SW cannot be compared to the MCU because they are vastly different in what they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

Howso? How are the two not trying to build a massive cinematic universe with a tapestry of stand-alone and event movies which both appeal to the fandom and generate and maintain wider audience appeal?


At least the Transformers fandom (to a degree) understands this. That while most fans think the Bay movies sucked, we understood we were not the target audience.

You're comparing apples and oranges here though. SW fans were introduced to the property through the original films and then the prequels so for them, it's very much centred around the films. The same cannot be said for Bayformers, where you really do need to draw a distinction between the transfandom and bayformerfandom, where there will in some cases, be some overlap. The reaction from the transfandom wont do much to to kill a Bayformer movie (though I hear fire helps ;):D ), but, if you start talking about say, the Bayformerfandom, such as with ROTF in the case of Western Markets and TLK in China, then it's a very different story.


TL;DR: Star Wars fandom needs to extract its head from its own anus.

I find it interesting how everyone was saying that before this movie came out - right down to the fact that Solo would be a success, the boycott would achieve nothing and Disney wouldn't feel it if it did happen. Yet the complete opposite has happened. While I'm sure many people in Disney and who are viewing these new movies as vehicles for Cultural Marxism, would love it if fans did suddenly become silent and compliant, it's not going to be happened and it's a factor you ignore at your peril as Lucasfilm.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I find it interesting how everyone was saying that before this movie came out - right down to the fact that Solo would be a success, the boycott would achieve nothing and Disney wouldn't feel it if it did happen.

Funny, most of what I had read was the quite opposite, that this was gonna be a bomb. A lot of articles just post-TLJ mention this:


Disney is bracing themselves for the Han Solo movie to bomb. They were worried about it before all The Last Jedi controversy, but now they’re essentially writing Solo off. The lead actor, Alden Ehrenreich, can’t act, and they had a dialogue coach on hand for all of his scenes. On top of that, the script is unworkable. It’s going to be a car crash.

Source: https://www.screengeek.net/2017/12/24/disney-expects-solo-a-star-wars-story-to-bomb/

There are multiple reasons for the flop depending on demographics. TLJ backlash was definitely a factor for the serious fans. Bad publicity and lukewarm word of mouth for the casual movie-goer. For my mates, they cited Star Wars fatigue as to why they hadn’t seen Solo yet.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a joy to movie-goers but a pain in the arse for movie studios. Marvel captured lightning in a bottle and every other franchise has been left standing there staring at a clear sky. Stop trying to be Marvel everyone!

[drifand]

I don’t think is fatigue at all. And I think everyone knows the reason and just not owning up.

Sad to say if the actor can’t act and they still carried on then this is their fault.
Personally it doesn’t bug me, I am not expecting a replication of Harrison Ford.

If they are cancelling solo sequel and think people are going to watch Rian’s trilogy more then I think we expect Disney to continue to loose more. End of the day is Disney’s money so they are entitled to say or make what they want.

People just vote with their wallets.

For me personally, I have never seen Star Wars in such a state, to me is kinda sad. There has never been so much bad talk I have seen in my life for this franchise after tlj.

I just hope they control the damage and do it quickly.

[bowspearer]

Funny, most of what I had read was the quite opposite, that this was gonna be a bomb. A lot of articles just post-TLJ mention this:

To be clear, I was referring to the public face and line of Disney and their shills.


For my mates, they cited Star Wars fatigue as to why they hadn’t seen Solo yet.

Yet fatigue can only set in when the wave has died down - until that happens, everyone generally just keeps riding the high as the MCU proves. That's why I have a hard time seeing the "fatigue" argument as being anything other than myopic. Sure it's happening on the surface, but when you start to scratch the surface and look at the hype or lack thereof which caused it, there's far more to it than mere burnout.

I'm not discounting the experience of them or their reasons. I simply consider the "it's burnout" argument to be analogous to having someone die from a car crash and insist that they "just died from the car crash", without digging deeper to what caused the crash to begin with.

That where I think the fan backlash played a huge part. I'd argue that the fans are generally your stone in the pond that causes the ripples, or rather waves. They turn around and get hyped, they get other people hyped, other people get other people hyped, and so it continues.

Given how divisive TLJ was, not only did you have a lack of hype, but the opposite, so you have a marketer's worst nightmare- negative word of mouth advertising.


The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a joy to movie-goers but a pain in the arse for movie studios. Marvel captured lightning in a bottle and every other franchise has been left standing there staring at a clear sky. Stop trying to be Marvel everyone!

Yet the MCU has merely mimicked the original Lightning in a bottle, which is Star Wars. That's the problem with saying they're not the same thing.


Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/kelly-marie-tran-racists-last-jedi_us_5a4400fee4b06d1621b6b2bb

In light of what I've experienced on facebook in the past 24 hours in relation to this, there is one thing I wanted to touch on here. The sexism and racism aren't the problem here, they're simply a vehicle for the bigger problem.

The divide in the fandom has brought the worst out in people. People out there aren't interested in discussion on the fringes, but in shutting up and shutting down everyone who does not adhere to their ideology: Star Wars has become a battleground of the Alt Right and Alt Left.

Racism and sexism get used because they're nasty and are likely to cut deeply without trying too hard, but they're simply tools for the intent.

The intent here is to be as nasty as possible to shut people down. In the past 24 hours on facebook, I stated I was critical of the needless change to Lucas' original backstory to Chewie. Things got real nasty real quickly - I was hit with constant accusations that I was a loser, having a sad life, mental illness based slurs, emasculating attacks, chauvinism; it was anything to shut me up and shut me down (I was just lucky that thanks to decades of psychological abuse, these people were rank amateurs and I was able to civilly hold my ground without stooping to their level). It started with one person, then two more joined in. In the end, it was hard to tell whether there were more nasty text posts, or more s***posting memes meant nastily. Then today, after I blocked the three last night, another joined in. In among it all, they then, after acting like I'd committed some secular heresy, claimed "dude.... it's just a movie" - irony much.

You can bet that if Kelly Marie Tran or anyone deemed "the enemy" by this war of extremists have been beaten of molested as a child, that the "righteous crusaders" would think nothing of using it as a weapon to attack their target with.

The racism and sexism are horrible vehicles, but let's be clear, they are just that vehicles for the underlying intent. They're not being used because of a person's sex or a person's race; they're being used because someone has been othered by an ideological camp and deemed so virulent and such a threat that it justifies them being taken down by any means necessary.

It's ironic, Star Wars drew so many people to it because its message of hope brought out the best in people. Meanwhile, these current movies are bringing out the worst in people. It's a tragic shame. *sigh* :(

[Ralph Wiggum]

Goddamit I had a whole reply typed out then the stupid browser logged me out and now I've lost it and I can't be arsed typing it all over again.

But in a nutshell:

1. MCU took four years involving two successes (Iron Man 1 & 2), solid results (Thor, Captain America) and a bomb (Incredible Hulk) before they really gained momentum with 2-3 releases each year bringing in a minimum $500 million. Despite Star Wars' immense popularity, I personally didn't expect them to reach the heights MCU has built on over the past 10 years.

2. Social media sucks, people suck, and I don't give a crap whether Star Wars characters are black/white/female/male or the reasons as to why they cast this way.

3. Solo failed for many reasons, all of them right one way or another.

[bowspearer]

1. MCU took four years involving two successes (Iron Man 1 & 2), solid results (Thor, Captain America) and a bomb (Incredible Hulk) before they really gained momentum with 2-3 releases each year bringing in a minimum $500 million. Despite Star Wars' immense popularity, I personally didn't expect them to reach the heights MCU has built on over the past 10 years.

Star Wars has been around 40 years. According to Box Office Mojo's Adjusted movie takings figures (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm) It had two immediate successes over three years, with ANH making an adjusted US Domestic gross of $1,631,575,500 and ESB making an adjusted US Domestic gross of $899,334,600 - in fact they're the 2nd and 13th highest domestic grossing movies of all time on adjusted figures.

Likewise ROTJ (#16) had an adjusted US Domestic gross of $861,584,200.

Jar Jar didn't even remotely harm Episode 1's takings (#18), with it making an adjusted US Domestic gross of $827,258,600.

It had its one bomb of Episode 2 (#97), taking in an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $489,771,200. Even then it still out-did the first two Hunger Games movies at #104 and #102 respectively.

It then recovered with Episode 3 (#67) making an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $543,413,200.

Then The Force Awakens shot up to #11 with an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $990,334,300.

Rogue One (#60) came in at an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $553,645,200.

For all its divisiveness, The Last Jedi (#43), bounced back with an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $619,169,000.

The worst offering in there, Episode 2, has an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $489,771,200 - just over $10,000 shy of that $500k mark on US Domestic figures alone.

Conversely the highest grossing Marvel movies, Avengers (#29), Black Panther (#30) and Avengers Ave of Ultron (#96), failed to reach the heights of even then Phantom Menace - with Avengers making an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $704,231,900, a good $124,000 less than it.

Meanwhile, Iron Man 3 (#113), Captain America Civil War (#123), Iron Man (#140), Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (#148), Guardians of the Galaxy (#172) and Iron Man 2 (#189), didn't even match the height of even Episode 2, with Iron Man 3 making an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $447,459,600 - more than $40k less than Episode 2. All the others didn't make the list.

In short, not only are both long enduring franchises and high earning franchises, but if anything it's not a case of Star Wars not meeting the heights of the MCU, but rather the other way around.

[Ralph Wiggum]

One of what no doubt will be the many research / opinions out there on why Solo flopped, this one from a investment research firm:

https://cowen.bluematrix.com/sellside/EmailDocViewer?encrypt=d3b41110-bb8c-4e61-9568-7457ec59a480&mime=pdf&co=cowen&id=david@deadline.com&source=mail

Short, sharp and to the point. Basically it all came down to piss poor marketing

[SharkyMcShark]

Racism and sexism get used because they're nasty and are likely to cut deeply without trying too hard, but they're simply tools for the intent.

The intent here is to be as nasty as possible to shut people down.


The racism and sexism are horrible vehicles, but let's be clear, they are just that vehicles for the underlying intent. They're not being used because of a person's sex or a person's race

Sorry, but I can't go past this. That's absurd.

If you're using someone's sex or race as a tool to be nasty to them, that makes you a sexist, or a racist, full stop.

(That also goes for mental health too, for the record)

'It wasn't meant pejoratively, it was just something said to get a rise and it doesn't mean that the person saying it actually hates X group' is the piss poorest of excuses for that kind of behaviour. Essentially you're suggesting that as long as you marry abusing some disadvantaged group to a barely coherent point or cause of some type you get a free pass.

(This also applies to the abuse you took for your mental health too, for the record, and I'm sorry that happened to you)

[bowspearer]

Racism and sexism get used because they're nasty and are likely to cut deeply without trying too hard, but they're simply tools for the intent.

The intent here is to be as nasty as possible to shut people down.
The racism and sexism are horrible vehicles, but let's be clear, they are just that vehicles for the underlying intent. They're not being used because of a person's sex or a person's race; they're being used because someone has been othered by an ideological camp and deemed so virulent and such a threat that it justifies them being taken down by any means necessary.

Sorry, but I can't go past this. That's absurd.

If you're using someone's sex or race as a tool to be nasty to them, that makes you a sexist, or a racist, full stop.

(That also goes for mental health too, for the record)

'It wasn't meant pejoratively, it was just something said to get a rise and it doesn't mean that the person saying it actually hates X group' is the piss poorest of excuses for that kind of behaviour. Essentially you're suggesting that as long as you marry abusing some disadvantaged group to a barely coherent point or cause of some type you get a free pass.

(This also applies to the abuse you took for your mental health too, for the record, and I'm sorry that happened to you)

Actually you're completely off the mark here. Mind you, given how close to home and uncomfortable what I am about to say will be for some people, that's not surprising. After all, better to oversimplify the problem than be forced to admit to being part of the culture which caused it - generally speaking that is.

There is no question that the behaviour in question is racist and sexist. There is also no question that given the nature of the attitudes and behaviours in question that the individuals in question are not automatically racist and sexist. They may be, but what's driving this is so much worse than that.

The thing about actual racist and sexist individuals is that they actually believe what they say; these people don't.

The thing about ventriloquists, the good ones that is, is that they can get away with making politically incorrect commentary by having the puppet make it, while the ventriloquist then gets offended at it, because the puppet "isn't real" - even though the voice behind the puppet, the ventriloquist, is very real and standing right there.

In my more than 15 years of being on online message boards and social media, I can honestly say that the same holds true for the bad behaviour an instances of bullying I have seen on message boards. It is all too often excused and ignored because it's just "names on a screen" (read "fictional characters") and therefore "not real".

When someone is "not real", then much like what comes out of a puppet's mouth, what gets said to that "fictional character", doesn't matter, because they're "not real". It's where the phrase "fictional characters" comes from. To this mentality, you can't be racist, because whatever you say cannot make you an actual bigot because the target "isn't real", so you can say whatever you want, regardless of whether you actually believe it.

It becomes an interactive version of bashing a piñata with a stick. They're traditionally made in the shape of a horse, but just because a person does it, doesn't mean that they secretly desire to bash every single horse or donkey they see with a stick until they're beating a dead horse into glue dust. After all, that's what those racist and sexist barbs were in the minds of these individuals - nothing more than swipes with a stick at a piñata.

In fact Tober put me onto this meme from March 19, 2004, years ago, which is proof (https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19) of it.

When social media evolved, things didn't get any better, in fact facebook has in many ways made things worse, but recently it's gotten even worse. As bad as this was, it's not the worst thing to happen to someone in the Star Wars community due to this bad behaviour. No, that award goes to the lowlifes who swatted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygEV5TDCwms) Matt Jarbo back in 2016. For those not familiar with the term, it's where someone calls the police on someone in such a way that the police dispatch a SWAT team to their homes (and for any sick twisted POS reading this who might think that's funny, no it actually isn't (https://youtu.be/kHj-6eYu9jM?t=21m14s)). Given all the ways it could go wrong, it's tantamount to attempted murder by cop. Then again at least Matt Jarbo was able to live to tell the tale; this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RKoBxuqY4k) wasn't so lucky.

To the mind of whoever did that, it was perfectly ok, because in their mind, Matt Jarbo wasn't a "real person". That's where this mentality of treating "fictional characters" like crap by any means necessary being acceptable, because they're "not real" and the bullying and bigotry is also "not real" has led society to.

When that is the mentality of someone, leaving a few racist slurs and bullying someone off a social media account, is deemed trivial.

And that's just it, to these people, Kelly Marie Tran was no different to a fictional character, so in their mind, they couldn't be racist to her or sexist to her, because in their mind, she wasn't a "real person".

That isn't the mentality of a racist.

That isn't the mentality of a sexist.

That is the mentality of a complete psychopath and sociopath.

Take it from someone who had the misfortune of taking one in at the end of 2016, only to be in fear of their life within 3 weeks of them being there.

At least with people who are just racist and sexist, there is enough basic empathy there that you can educate away the bigotry.

Not so with people like this. These people are dangerous, degenerate monsters and deserve to be treated as such.

To reduce this to mere sexism or racism, is to minimise, trivialise and excuse it.

Although as I said previously, having been around various fan communities for over 15 years now, I can honestly see why people would want to make this just about racism and sexism; in this case, garden-variety bigots do make an incredibly convenient and credible scapegoats.

After all, if the true nature of the problem were acknowledged, it would mean acknowledging that the culture of individuals treating people like scum because all they see said individuals as nothing more than avatars and screen-names, brought rise to this culture of using anything to attack "faceless individuals" - even such disgusting things as racism and sexism.

In turn it would require multiple people to take a look in the mirror and own the fact that the culture they have contributed to through their behaviour on message boards, is a culture where it is deemed acceptable to use even racism and sexism as mere weapons of convenience in attacking "faceless characters" they don't like and even potentially subjecting them to death by SWAT team. After all, if you lob a stone in the pond, you're responsible for creating the ripples it makes.

But then that's the thing about the oxymoron of "keyboard courage", isn't it?

[griffin]

Just remember people, this topic is for talking about the Solo Movie - either the actual movie, or its production & popularity.

[shockNwave]

Just remember people, this topic is for talking about the Solo Movie - either the actual movie, or its production & popularity.

Then that would mean talking about psychopaths/sociopaths like Bowspearer has done would mean describing the aforementioned villains as Siths because after all, there is a reference to the Sith in Solo.

[Skullcruncher]

I saw it with my wife - I enjoyed it as did she. The movie did its job - focus on Han, Chewy and Lando. Zero care factor for others really. I got the feeling they were prepping for Solo #2 though.

What annoyed me though was the couple next to us brought in their takeaways and then started taking photos of it, my wife suggested I swap seats with her as my annoyance level was fast approaching tipping point!

[Starscream77]

Saw it, loved it !
One of my fave Star Wars movies.

As for all the negativity and whether it was a bomb or not I could give a rats ass, I like what I like.

... and fanboy carry on makes me laugh

[Jetfire in the sky]

Saw it, loved it !
One of my fave Star Wars movies.

As for all the negativity and whether it was a bomb or not I could give a rats ass, I like what I like.

... and fanboy carry on makes me laugh

Yes, I am one of the massive fans deliberately not going to see it. But I love that other fans who are going enjoy it so much.

Great signature SS77 :D:D

[shockNwave]

Saw it, loved it !
One of my fave Star Wars movies.

As for all the negativity and whether it was a bomb or not I could give a rats ass, I like what I like.

... and fanboy carry on makes me laugh

Solo (like Rogue One) is a balanced affair. As a result it has enough of an old school feel and enough of a modern SFX feel that makes it better than TFA and TLJ which seem to be chasing the younger generations more than us oldies.

[Ralph Wiggum]

It’s a bit of a shame that the least controversial Star Wars film is suffering box office wise due to fallout from the most divisive one.

Solo was just plain fun, even if it seemed a little shallow on character building. I feel like Han’s backstory could’ve been fleshed out into a trilogy, rather than crammed into a solo (heh) movie.

[Lord_Zed]

I don't think we can blame Solo's box office woes entirely on the last film, did it have an effect? Sure but I think Solo and the franchise in general has it's own issues.


Solo (like Rogue One) is a balanced affair. As a result it has enough of an old school feel and enough of a modern SFX feel that makes it better than TFA and TLJ which seem to be chasing the younger generations more than us oldies.

I'm one of those oldies, but having seen lots of films in my time makes me crave more in my movie experience. Solo plays it so safe it came across as mediocre for me, I'd rather the highs and lows (and both films have both) of TFA and TLJ than the tepid waters of Solo.

Still, I'm glad some people are enjoying it more than I did, I don't want Star Wars to go away, but maybe we can have a little less of it, make it special again.

[drifand]

They need to fix up their PR first and I mean Now.

I am no idea why would they not being instructed to just stay away from unhappy fans and just let them be? Instead adding more salt to wounds and making things go bad. < I am kinda of tired of any side of it.

For me I enjoy Solo more, it feels really star Wars halfway through but not at the beginning. I am hearing that they want to get Darth Maul back and into other movies.

A new sith also has been announced.

[shockNwave]

They need to fix up their PR first and I mean Now.

I am no idea why would they not being instructed to just stay away from unhappy fans and just let them be? Instead adding more salt to wounds and making things go bad. < I am kinda of tired of any side of it.

For me I enjoy Solo more, it feels really star Wars halfway through but not at the beginning. I am hearing that they want to get Darth Maul back and into other movies.

A new sith also has been announced.

Darth Maul is dead and there's no coming back from that. Unless that was a sith clone that died in TPM or the one in Solo is the clone.

[griffin]

Darth Maul is dead and there's no coming back from that. Unless that was a sith clone that died in TPM or the one in Solo is the clone.


Darth Maul has been in the Clone Wars cartoon (set between Ep 2 and 3) and the Rebels cartoon (set just before Rogue One), which are both part of the Movie Universe... and the Solo movie is set between Ep 3 and Rebels, so Maul is alive during that time. (how he survived Ep1 was explained in the Clone Wars cartoon)




Spoilers... maybe....



Ep 1 - introduced and then cut in half at the waist

Ep 2

Clone Wars - returned with the lower half being cybernetic (remember, most of Darth Vader was machine as well, so it is possible to survive losing half your body if your will, and force power is strong enough to keep you alive long enough to be saved)
Ep3
Solo Movie - cameo as the head of a criminal organisation

Rebels cartoon - appears, proclaims that he is no longer a Sith, and later dies at the hands of Obi Wan.
Rogue One
Ep4.... and so on.

[drifand]

thanks Griffin,

Yes, I think they intending to insert Maul into the Obi Wan movie, but again is all talks from what I gathered.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Clone Wars - returned with the lower half being cybernetic (remember, most of Darth Vader was machine as well, so it is possible to survive losing half your body if your will, and force power is strong enough to keep you alive long enough to be saved)


A butt load of hatred helps too :D

[shockNwave]

Thanks for clearing that up, Griffin. That cameo appearance at the end of Solo is no longer confusing.

[Raider]

thanks Griffin,

Yes, I think they intending to insert Maul into the Obi Wan movie, but again is all talks from what I gathered.

I don't think that is necessarily going to be the case. More likely that you will see him pop up in a Boba Fett movie. I base this on what occurs in Star Wars Rebels. I don't want to give away spoilers so if you are interested then you may want to look into it. If you have not watched Rebels, I highly recommend it.

I finally made it to the cinemas and saw Solo. I don't know if it was the low expectations I had going in, but I rather enjoyed it. The movie explained some fantastic little unanswered questions from the OT (ie the Falcon computer's quirky attitude, that Han shot first, the differing pronunciation of Han - just to name a few). Also, the story itself was original and provided some solid background to Han's personality.

I think there has been a lot of hate and vitriol being spread around. There is no doubt that TLJ is the catalyst for this given the polarising views people take on that movie. I would recommend that everyone who has not seen Solo just give it a chance. I was pleasantly surprised.

Final note, I disliked TLJ for a number of reasons but that is no reason to ever abuse or harass any of the actors, staff or those involved in the production, or any proponent of an alternate view. Such a shame that it is next to impossible to have a civilised discussion about the issue on the internet...

[Thurmus]

I thought it was interesting that Han's woman was wearing the same half moon gold plate as Darth Maul on her black dress earlier in the movie when Han met her again.

[Ralph Wiggum]

It's currently movie of the week at Event and Hoyts cinemas (i.e. cheaper tickets), so my partner and I decided to watch it a second time.

I still really enjoyed it, and it's a shame a less divisive movie didn't do as well as TLJ. I feel like there is a better chemistry between the characters, despite the level of mistrust and suspicion they have with each other, compared to the characters in the sequels. The more I watch, the more I appreciate Donald Glover's portrayal of Lando. I wish there is more of him in future movies. There's enough subtle references to previous material like Bossk, Teras Kasi and Lando's guard armour. And I really loved how the composer referenced some of the music from the OT as well.

My only major gripe is the fact that they completely ignored Han's career in the Imperial Navy and how he got booted out. They clearly wanted to jump into the whole meeting Lando/ Millenium Falcon/ Kessel Run story, but I feel this was at a cost to character development.

[shockNwave]

My only major gripe is the fact that they completely ignored Han's career in the Imperial Navy and how he got booted out. They clearly wanted to jump into the whole meeting Lando/ Millenium Falcon/ Kessel Run story, but I feel this was at a cost to character development.

If you cast your mind back to A New Hope and the scene onboard the Death Star where Han is on the intercom after seizing the detention level, you'll notice he's nervous talking to the imperial officer. If the movie version of Han really did have the imperial navy background then he would've been quite confident over the intercom.

[bowspearer]

If the movie version of Han really did have the imperial navy background then he would've been quite confident over the intercom.

Unless he was worried about someone potentially recognising his voice that is.

[philby]

Bowspearer, let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.


Fun movie, just watched it with my dad who liked it to.

[bowspearer]

Bowspearer, let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.

Not going to happen when I actually care about quality storytelling, which isn't going to change any time soon.

A society which happily "switches off their brains" when partaking in one of the oldest forms of sharing knowledge on the planet, is a society of fools.

[philby]

Not going to happen when I actually care about quality storytelling, which isn't going to change any time soon.

A society which happily "switches off their brains" when partaking in one of the oldest forms of sharing knowledge on the planet, is a society of fools.

so instead of changing the fact you care about quality storytelling, why don't you change the fact you care too much about the old expanded universe and can't accept that it is now in the past. kyle katarn swept away for "grrl powa"? you are the one who looks like a fool.

[bowspearer]

so instead of changing the fact you care about quality storytelling, why don't you change the fact you care too much about the old expanded universe and can't accept that it is now in the past. kyle katarn swept away for "grrl powa"? you are the one who looks like a fool.

You know, I'm amazed you can still type after having your house of glass come crashing down on top of you. Guess you didn't get the memo about people in glass houses not throwing stones.

You accuse me of looking like a fool, yet in doing so, you only show how utterly clueless about the Star Wars mythology as set up by George Lucas that you truly are.

After all, if you actually knew what you were talking about here, you'd know that my issue with Solo has nothing to do with Kyle Katarn and what was changed here wasn't originally EU.

In 1994, Lucasfilm released an online version of a Fact File. It was called "Star Wars Screen Entertainment" - where the fact files could either be played deliberately, or viewed randomly as a screen saver. In fact, from memory, as a bonus, it also contained some BTS footage and featurettes of the SE Trilogy. This was no more a game than a coffee table book on Star Wars is.

As it's been noted, the character bio section took its notes from Lucas' Episode 4 script and character notes. In other words, everything there was from the mind of Lucas.

It was there that Lucas, not Crispin as everyone keeps saying, came up with the backstory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ablw6urvNWE) of Han Solo having a promising Imperial Navy career, only to throw it all away by turning on his superior to save Chewie from the brutality he faced as a slave. That was the entire reason the life debt existed to begin with.

And yes, when that plot gets needlessly replaced by shallow overt, virtue signalling mixed a Michael Bay set piece in the worst way possible, then yes, I am absolutely going to call it down for the dumbed-down garbage it clearly is!

After all, the same moral lessons and more were given with what Lucas originally penned and Lucas did it 100 times better, over 40 years ago!

[Galvatran]

Why do you need to nitpick other member's posts over & over again? You come across as a total prick. Just relax. Don't be a kill joy and let others enjoy their time on this board. That's all I'll say on the matter.

Mods, feel free to nominate my post as 'post of the month'.

[philby]

You know, I'm amazed you can still type after having your house of glass come crashing down on top of you. Guess you didn't get the memo about people in glass houses not throwing stones.

You accuse me of looking like a fool, yet in doing so, you only show how utterly clueless about the Star Wars mythology as set up by George Lucas that you truly are.

After all, if you actually knew what you were talking about here, you'd know that my issue with Solo has nothing to do with Kyle Katarn and what was changed here wasn't originally EU.

In 1994, Lucasfilm released an online version of a Fact File. It was called "Star Wars Screen Entertainment" - where the fact files could either be played deliberately, or viewed randomly as a screen saver. In fact, from memory, as a bonus, it also contained some BTS footage and featurettes of the SE Trilogy. This was no more a game than a coffee table book on Star Wars is.

As it's been noted, the character bio section took its notes from Lucas' Episode 4 script and character notes. In other words, everything there was from the mind of Lucas.

It was there that Lucas, not Crispin as everyone keeps saying, came up with the backstory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ablw6urvNWE) of Han Solo having a promising Imperial Navy career, only to throw it all away by turning on his superior to save Chewie from the brutality he faced as a slave. That was the entire reason the life debt existed to begin with.

And yes, when that plot gets needlessly replaced by shallow overt, virtue signalling mixed a Michael Bay set piece in the worst way possible, then yes, I am absolutely going to call it down for the dumbed-down garbage it clearly is!

After all, the same moral lessons and more were given with what Lucas originally penned and Lucas did it 100 times better, over 40 years ago!

i can type, don't worry too much :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

in one of your first posts of this thread you whine that kyle katarn was removed from rogue one because of grrll powaa. i know this has nothing to do with solo as a movie specifically :rolleyes: it shows that you cannot get over new people in a franchise making new stories and not letting years of old books, games and comics hold them back.

in this movie han solo joins the academy! he decides to throw his career away! he frees chewbacca! they have taken the essence of that backstory as created by george lucas and made a new movie about it.

pablo hidalgo and leland chee are still involved. they have a wealth of material from the past which they can use or not use. yes i know shadows of the empire was a big 'multimedia event'. however at the end of the day george lucas said the movies was it and anything else star wars related was a tier below. it doesn't matter how "official" they were.

kyp durron, the sun crusher and the jedi academy novels were batshit crazy at times. as annoying as it was in a way, when disney bought star wars them saying they are starting fresh and not being beholden to the old EU is one of the best things that could have happened. what they can do is look at things that stuck with people and resonated with them and incorporate them if they think it fits, like the han and chewie backstory and thrawn in rebels.

[XMan]

Ugh god do we need another thread closed?

[bowspearer]

Why do you need to nitpick other member's posts over & over again? You come across as a total prick. Just relax. Don't be a kill joy and let others enjoy their time on this board. That's all I'll say on the matter.

Mods, feel free to nominate my post as 'post of the month'.

Says the person with selective comprehension.

After all, Shock'n'wave were merely discussing a plot point as follows:



If you cast your mind back to A New Hope and the scene onboard the Death Star where Han is on the intercom after seizing the detention level, you'll notice he's nervous talking to the imperial officer. If the movie version of Han really did have the imperial navy background then he would've been quite confident over the intercom.Unless he was worried about someone potentially recognising his voice that is.

Then Philby comes into the fray with the following (oh and I'll be getting to his last comment in my next post).




Bowspearer, let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.Not going to happen when I actually care about quality storytelling, which isn't going to change any time soon.

A society which happily "switches off their brains" when partaking in one of the oldest forms of sharing knowledge on the planet, is a society of fools.so instead of changing the fact you care about quality storytelling, why don't you change the fact you care too much about the old expanded universe and can't accept that it is now in the past. kyle katarn swept away for "grrl powa"? you are the one who looks like a fool.

So according to you, telling someone with legitimate concerns about a franchise they love to STFU is laudable, but said person then turning around and tearing the argument of the person telling them to STFU to shreds is "com[ing] across as a total prick" according to you.

If I was to give an accurate assessment of multiple people I'm dealing with here, I'd be breaking several board rules. So I wont do that. I'll simply say that dealing with their attitudes and behaviours make "com[ing] across as a total prick" a necessity in this place.

[bowspearer]

i can type, don't worry too much :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And yet your stone throwing in a glass house still brought that house completely down on you.


in one of your first posts of this thread you whine that kyle katarn was removed from rogue one because of grrll powaa. i know this has nothing to do with solo as a movie specifically :rolleyes: it shows that you cannot get over new people in a franchise making new stories and not letting years of old books, games and comics hold them back.

There's a term for what you've done here: cherry picking.

After all, here's the full quote, complete with what you conveniently omitted in bold.


I'm very hesitant to watch this as it seems that the writers couldn't even get what was established in the script without coming close to veering off a cliff. It was originally established in canon that Han was a young imperial officer who got court-marshalled because he liberated Chewie, whom he met as a slave - hence the Wookie life debt. Yet at one point there were going to have Han join the Corellian Army and I've seen nothing to suggest that they've even kept that Han Chewie relationship dynamic in place.

The thing that annoys me with all of this is that much like the way they killed off Kyle Katarn because "grrl powa", it seems that everything which came out of LucasArts, which should have been untouchable, has just been crapped on for the sake of filmmakers who clearly don't have respect for the mythology or the fanbase and appear to simply see cheap political pandering as a means to $$$.

In fact what happened to Kyle Katarn is the reason why I have't watched a single Star Wars film since TFA.

How much longer before we all start crying out "Come back George! All is forgiven!"?

Wait, what's that? The entire post makes it clear that Rogue One being a gender bent ripoff of Star Wars turned me off the franchise, but even then, if they had've kept the original story Lucas originally wrote, I was still going to go and see Solo?

Yeah, that's some really damning and conclusive evidence you've gathered against me there - not. :rolleyes:

Oh and since we're talking about bringing up my old posts, let's bring up this snippet of a response I made to M-bot, which clearly puts my "people switching off their brains comment in context:



I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it ‘should be’.
Meanwhile, letting go of expectations has done wonders to increasingly worsen the quality of Bayformers. Also it speaks volumes about the discernment of modern cinema-goers when a film like Age of Ex-stink-tion can be rated as both the worst movie of the year and one of the highest grossing films of the year.

The fact is that it would be entirely possible to create a great film that is well crafted and respects the pre-existing world it is created in. But then why bother with that as a film making company, when audiences will still hand over their money by the truckload for something far less polished.

No matter how much you tell yourself otherwise, this isn't art for the sake of art; this is a business. If companies see that people will pay by the truckload for crap, they'll serve up crap by the truckload. Why? Because when people will pay for crap, giving them quality actually costs you money.

When you say "switch off and enjoy it" what you're actually saying is "send these companies an even louder message that they'll pay for whatever is dished up.


in this movie han solo joins the academy! he decides to throw his career away! he frees chewbacca! they have taken the essence of that backstory as created by george lucas and made a new movie about it.

SPOILER ALERT

Then I guess you and Mansoor Mithaiwala from Screen Rant, as well as others I've spoken to, saw completely different movies.

Mansoor Mithaiwala from Screen Rant notes (https://screenrant.com/solo-star-wars-han-met-chewbacca/):


In Solo: A Star Wars Story, Han Solo enlists in the Imperial Academy but is kicked out for one too many transgressions. He eventually finds himself as an infantryman at Camp Forward on Mimban, where the Empire is conducting an invasion against the Mimbanese population - and that's where he meets Chewbacca. After his attempt to notify his superiors about Tobias Beckett's real identity backfires on him, Han is thrown into a pit in which a "Beast" lives and hasn't been fed in a couple days. That beast turns out to be Chewbacca, who seemingly attempts to kill Han. That's when Han speaks Shyriiwook for the first time and tells Chewie that they could help each other escape, which becomes the beginning of a long-lasting friendship.

Compare this to what was written in Lucas original story notes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ablw6urvNWE):

Chewie:

Decades after his capture, Chewbacca met a young Imperial officer named Han Solo. Solo felt for this demoralised creature and, despite strict rules forbidding interference, helped the Wookie escape. In return for sacrificing his career, Chewbacca offered the Corellian a life debt. And after quite a few years of shadowing the officer-turned freelance, Solo broke down and accepted the offer.

Han:


Han was a spunky child, spunkier than most Correllian Children. He did well in school and was immediately accepted into the Imperial Academy. After graduating with honors, he sailed towards a commanding rank in the Imperial Navy, where he would have been able to use his talents to their fullest extent.

One day, however, he found a noble Wookie being beaten in a nearby slave camp and compassion directed him to interfere. Imperial Law declared all Wookies fair trade, and Han was forbidden to counter that ruling in any form, but that didn't stop him. He rescued the Wookie and was subsequently discharged. Although the Wookie, Chewbacca, pledged his life to Solo, he found little reason to feel proud. He wandered the galaxy, accepting small contract work here and there, all the time being followed by the Wookie. This annoyed Solo to no end, until he finally realized the sanctity of the Wookie Life Debt, and accepted it. Before long, they were good friends and partners.

How are these even remotely the same story - even in spirit?


pablo hidalgo and leland chee are still involved. they have a wealth of material from the past which they can use or not use.

As I said earlier, the entire Holocron was a giant screw-up by Chee, which threw the baby out with the bathwater at every turn. The form of media which something took doesn't dictate how much of it came from the mind of Lucas. Just because the Character Bios appear in the screensaver equivalent of a coffee table book, doesn't change the fact that the source for them is Lucas' own story notes. If you go off the media form it can be mistakenly categorised as C-canon, but in fact as it's from Lucas himself, it's actually GWL-Canon.

If that isn't a fair call, then explain why its successor, Behind the Magic, ultimately became the foundation for the Holocron itself (https://www.wired.com/2008/08/ff-starwarscanon/?currentPage=all):


Around 2000, Chee moved from LucasArts to Lucas Licensing, where he was tasked with creating an even more detailed version of Magic for internal use. "We had several game-design teams, several comic book writers, and dozens of novelists," Roffman says. "We needed a reference for everyone who was playing in our sandbox."

So if Behind the Magic counts as sacrosanct, then why doesn't SWSE when they both fall under the same category of media and both draw on the same source?

Furthermore to quote the following:


GWL-canon or "G-canon" stood for "George Lucas canon": Marked "GWL" after George Lucas (whose middle name is "Walton")[34]. It included Episodes I–VI (the released films at that time), and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the scripts, filmed deleted scenes, film novelizations, reference books, radio plays, and other primary sources were also G-canon when not in contradiction with the released films.

In other words, the backstory which was mentioned in SWSE is GWL-Canon.


yes i know shadows of the empire was a big 'multimedia event'. however at the end of the day george lucas said the movies was it and anything else star wars related was a tier below. it doesn't matter how "official" they were.

No actually, GWL canon is literally anything from the mind of Lucas - not just the movies, as highlighted above. In fact anything which the LucasArts group developed in house, where George Lucas himself had a hands on role with its development, could be argued to fall under the banner of GWL-Canon. After all, since when were the OT not a collaborative process which took place officially within the confines of Lucasfilm. Han Solo's now famous "I know" as a product of Lawrence Kasdan is an example of this.

Or are you telling me that if Lucasfilm were more confident about the franchise's cinematic success in the mid 1990s, that Shadows of the Empire wouldn't have been the very first side story movie?


kyp durron, the sun crusher and the jedi academy novels were batshit crazy at times. as annoying as it was in a way, when disney bought star wars them saying they are starting fresh and not being beholden to the old EU is one of the best things that could have happened. what they can do is look at things that stuck with people and resonated with them and incorporate them if they think it fits, like the han and chewie backstory and thrawn in rebels.

You're comparing apples and oranges. I happen to be a fan of Kyp Durron. Do you know why I never mentioned him and voiced my disappointment at his story being reduced to a mere legend? Because at the end of the day, he was a third party creation by Kevin J. Anderson whom Lucas had little to do with the creation of. He was completely fair game because he was nothing more than a licensed third party creation.

It is a speciously reasoned fallacy to compare culling an in house major Lucasfilm project, which Lucas himself was directly involved with the creation of or even script notes by Lucas himself, with novels he had nothing to do with except agreeing with characters he did not create having the Star Wars brand label slapped on them, based on media formats. Even the spirit of GWL-Canon demonstrates that.

In fact it's highly telling that the so called "haters" actually have concerns based out of love for what George Lucas created.

[SMHFConvoy]

I miss the 80's

[philby]

😳
They are almost the exact same story in spirit. The key points you are looking for are that Han is an imperial officer. Han decides to throw that career away. Han meets Chewie who is a captive. Han helps free Chewie.

???

[bowspearer]

😳
They are almost the exact same story in spirit. The key points you are looking for are that Han is an imperial officer. Han decides to throw that career away. Han meets Chewie who is a captive. Han helps free Chewie.

???

They're not even remotely the same story in spirit. In the original, Han threw away a promising Imperial career to save Chewie. In this one Han is a problem child of the Imperial Navy who gets thrown into a pit and only saves himself when Chewie discovers he speaks a little Wookie.

They're not even remotely the same stakes, the same moral dilemma oflr the same relationship dynamics. The later does nothing but piss on the reason the Wookie Life Debt was given to Han.

[SMHFConvoy]

So... How was school today?

[Raider]

So... How was school today?

I laughed way too much at this.

I've been watching a lot of YouTube reviews (both positive and negative) about Solo and TLJ lately and whilst you can generally tell inherent bias, a number of them make solid points on both the pros and cons of the movies.

I'm not going to list them all but suffice to say Solo continues to surpass my expectations of it upon reflection. TLJ, only gets worse...

[philby]

So... How was school today?

It was great! We learnt about the dangers of falling glass but I haven't seen any yet. I will keep my eyes peeled 😄

[philby]

They're not even remotely the same story in spirit. In the original, Han threw away a promising Imperial career to save Chewie. In this one Han is a problem child of the Imperial Navy who gets thrown into a pit and only saves himself when Chewie discovers he speaks a little Wookie.

They're not even remotely the same stakes, the same moral dilemma oflr the same relationship dynamics. The later does nothing but piss on the reason the Wookie Life Debt was given to Han.

han solo is a scoundrel, a smuggler who is in it for the money. someone who takes orders from only one person: himself.

a promising imperial navy recruit who decides to make a stand for the good guys and free a wookie and then travel the galaxy together taking on jobs doesn't seem to match.

a guy with no loyalty to the empire but who uses the imperial academy as a way of reaching a goal, has trouble following orders, makes selfish decisions (that may backfire) to try and further himself at the risk of others, who sees uniting with an enslaved wookie to free themselves from capture and then taking on jobs to still reach his goals to me seems like a better match.

i think the han solo as presented in the spinoff movie seems a closer alignment to the han solo we meet in the cantina than what george lucas may have come up with.

does that not match up better?
do you think that it doesn't even matter because only what george lucas wrote down is what counts?

[SMHFConvoy]

I laughed way too much at this.

I've been watching a lot of YouTube reviews (both positive and negative) about Solo and TLJ lately and whilst you can generally tell inherent bias, a number of them make solid points on both the pros and cons of the movies.

I'm not going to list them all but suffice to say Solo continues to surpass my expectations of it upon reflection. TLJ, only gets worse...

Glad someone got a laugh! Seriously, I don't want a real Star Trek War or a Star Wars Trek.

Bob Chipman, In Bob We Trust presented a good analysis on the TLJ and liked Solo. Personally not a huge fan of episodes 7 and 8 but I did like Solo and Rogue One.

[SMHFConvoy]

It was great! We learnt about the dangers of falling glass but I haven't seen any yet. I will keep my eyes peeled 😄

Do remember to put on a high vis vest, a hard hat, thick gloves and eye protection if you're around broken glass.

[drifand]

Hmm... while I am willing to let go of the past but I do have to take into account of whats a logical flow to the future.

For me Star Wars was enjoyable, even the prequels not without its flaws of course.

It is also not good to put judgement on episode nine either. But I just dislike how Lucas flim and Disney are not understanding why things turn soured.

Its weird that everyone ELSE knows where they gone wrong and they are just in complete denial < reminds me of a retailer.

I just hope they know what they are doing. As you have Rian saying things like "making movies are not to sell figures" don't actually help Star Wars position at all.

Remember guys, if you put Star Wars in a negative spot, it becomes negative.

All the best.

[shockNwave]

I'm not going to list them all but suffice to say Solo continues to surpass my expectations of it upon reflection. TLJ, only gets worse...

You've hit the nail on the head. For me, Solo will age well like Rogue One and the original trilogy:) but as for TLJ...…….I recently saw it for a second time and it's starting to age like a limburger cheese.:eek:

[GoktimusPrime]

[SPOILER FREE THOUGHTS]

A really excellent movie! There were no major flaws with it. Maybe a few moments that I felt were superfluous, but nothing that detracted from the story or film. The pacing felt pretty good. At first I felt that this new Han Solo didn't feel like "my" Han Solo to me, but then I realised that this is the whole point of the story and also it's strength. Han doesn't need to be the suave dude that we meet in A New Hope, because that's his future self. This is a young Han Solo who hasn't become that man yet. He needs to be a different person in order to change and grow into the Han that we see in ANH. Not only that, but this Han also gives us a grounding into who we see Han become at the end of ANH and throughout the subsequent movies, up till he becomes a full fledged Rebel in Return of the Jedi. So it's doing a lot of groundwork for what this character will be in the future.

Now of course, herein lies what people either love or hate about Prequels - they are slave to the pre-existing movies. They exist to flesh out those films and there is a set path that the characters and story must take. Deviate too far from it and you get problems (continuity least of all). I personally quite like Prequels because I like seeing familiar material being expanded upon, but I can understand the lack of appeal for other people because there isn't as much freshness or novelty to it. But then that's what the Sequels are for, and The Last Jedi was very bold in going in a very new and different direction. Let the Sequels break new ground and these spin-off movies can fill in the gaps of the existing canon, which is what they're supposed to do. So in context of the intention of the movie, I think it works very well.

[SPOILER THOUGHTS]

SPOILER WARNING!

SPOILERS AHEAD!

First up, I love L3-37 (heh). At first I thought, "Oh, not another nutty droid," because we already so that with K2SO in Rogue One. But she was crazy in her own way, but more importantly, she fills a vital part of the Star Wars lore -- she finally explains how the Millennium Falcon got its highly intelligent computer brain. This is something that fans have known for a long time. I don't know if the previous EU provided a back story, but obviously the movie canon is now retcon. But it's so cool! It's not like the Tardis' mind where she's just sentient because all Tardises are... we know that he Millennium Falcon was modified to have a highly intelligent brain that's possibly SENTIENT. :o

This is a new concept that's never been touched upon - do droids dream of electric sheep? One reason why droids are meant to have their minds routinely wiped is to prevent bugs, and one of these rare bugs might be the accidental development of sentience. We've seen it before with Artoo Detoo, although it's hard to gauge his exact level of sentience or sapience since he cannot speak. See Threepio isn't really sentient, but merely simulacra, much like many other protocol droids (including K2SO who isn't so much sentience, but his AI interface is messed up as a result of his forced reprogramming). Droids are a slave class in Star Wars, but only L3-37 is aware of this. She has a concept of freedom. Even when she removes the restraining bolt from that Astromech droid, it initially awaits new instructions and she says, "I don't know, go liberate your brothers and sisters!" and the droids all go about "liberating" themselves and staging a revolt... but is it because they want freedom or because it's a relayed instruction from L3-37?

But the real clincher was L3-37's conversation with Qira. Sharing her feelings about Lando. There is love there, but it's restrained because she believes that society wouldn't accept it... but she has doubts. What if society could accept love between a man and a machine? She then relates with Qira because she can see the Han's love for her is unrequited. This requires a high level of emotional empathy that is unseen in any other droid. And she's a navigator, not a protocol droid! Then when we see Lando rush back for her and even mourn for her destruction, promising to save her. Okay, on one hand you could argue that it's because he needs her navigational data, but I dunno... the way he was crying and in emotional anguish suggests more. He hadn't just lost an important asset, it felt like he was losing a friend. Then the tone of his voice when he realised that L3-37 had become one with the Falcon, and continued to help them as the Falcon's computer brain... man, there was more love in that voice than any of Anakin Skywalker's odes to Padmé Amidala! But man, it was like phoenix rising from the ashes.

The character journey of Han: I thought it was good. It shows that he's a genuine good guy who's been dealt a lousy hand, and the universe forces himself to become more selfish purely for reasons of survival. The inherent good guy bit is important because this is the core part of Han's personality that we see surface at the end of A New Hope and in the following Star Wars films. It's this part of his personality that Leia falls in love with when she eventually learns to look past the harsh smuggler exterior that he's built in the years because he had to. And the character journey shows us WHY he's had to become a scoundrel. It's a dog-eat-dog world that he lives in. Han and Chewbacca quickly learn that they have to look after themselves. Putting their trust in others is dangerous, even trust in Qira proved to be folly. And this is where I think the importance of the Qira character lies. She teaches Han that he really cannot trust anyone completely (other than Chewbacca). They had to give him someone that he implicitly trusted and then work towards tearing that trust away. It's a bitter-sweet moment because obviously Qira feels something for Han, but she's also learned to become intensely self-interested for personal survival. As she said to Han, he managed to get out be she didn't.

That Darth Maul scene.
Gguuuuhhh... totally pointless. And reeks of lame fan-fiction (it always has to me, even when he returned in the comics and cartoon). Yeah, I get that they're building something for another movie, but still, this felt like a superfluous scene. And why did Maul take out his lightsabre? He's on a freakin' hologram call with Qira. Yay, we're allies now, but let me visually threaten you with these lightsabres and snarl at you. Huh? Not only did that seem utterly pointless, but it kinda made him feel like less of a threat. One thing that made Darth Maul more menacing (heh) in Episode 1 was that we didn't see much of him until he attacked Qui Gon Jinn on Tattooine. Until then he was just this freaky looking hooded guy. But at least this scene was short and didn't drag on like the Pod Race or the Canto-Bite scenes.

IN SUMMARY

Solo is very much a By-The-Numbers movie. It is a conservative movie that is fairly risk-adverse and plays it safe. Having said that, I think that it is a pretty good by-the-numbers film that ticks all the boxes. Does it soar above its mandate? Not really, but that doesn't make it a bad movie IMO. Not exemplary, but that doesn't mean it's not good. :)

The Last Jedi is a movie that took risks and copped a lot of heat from fans, so I'm not surprised that Disney decided to play it more safely with Solo. And IMO, TLJ is still a pretty darn good movie. My only real criticism of that movie is the useless Canto-Bite (casino planet) scene. Utterly useless. But aside from that there's nothing that I consider really bad about the movie. Importantly, I appreciate Rian Johnson's effort to do something new and fresh with Star Wars. It sure is a lot better than Michael Bay just predictably regurgitating the same thing over and over and over again.

[reillyd]

I have good news everyone! After extensive internet sleuthing, I can confirm that the actress playing Enfys Nest, Erin Kellyman, is officially over 18 years of age at time of filming. Now I'm not going to hell!

[shockNwave]

I have good news everyone! After extensive internet sleuthing, I can confirm that the actress playing Enfys Nest, Erin Kellyman, is officially over 18 years of age at time of filming. Now I'm not going to hell!

Well, a woman in such a position of leadership has to be in her twenties rather than her teens otherwise it would be too easy for the empire.;)

[Jetfire in the sky]

I finally watched it the other day, yes I am one of the boycotters, I thought it was very good and will buy it on BR now to give my support to it. It is a shame that TLJ came a few months before it, if they had held off release to maybe around this time of year it may have had a better box office. Anyway, glad I watched it but also stand my decision to not go see it at the cinema. (Please no arguments about this)

[drifand]

I finally watched it the other day, yes I am one of the boycotters, I thought it was very good and will buy it on BR now to give my support to it. It is a shame that TLJ came a few months before it, if they had held off release to maybe around this time of year it may have had a better box office. Anyway, glad I watched it but also stand my decision to not go see it at the cinema. (Please no arguments about this)

I watched this and I am okay with it. The story feels like a good flow of things unlike TLJ.

I am not watching episode nine in the cinemas. I watch it when is made available.

[Sinnertwin]

I may buy this at JB when it hits $12.98 or in the buy 2 get 1 free bin, just because Star Wars.

[SharkyMcShark]

This is the first Star Wars film that has come out in my life time that I saw just once in cinemas. I've not bothered to watch it at home release.

It was largely uninteresting, had no clear strong message or theme, and did nothing to further the mythos of the franchise. On reflection it remains in the bottom tier of the franchise for me (there are too many films now to do numerical rankings - I find tiers deals with the question of quality better).

I'll see Ep9 in cinemas at least once though given who is directing I'm not super optimistic it will be particularly interesting. JJ Abrams directs solid unremarkable 7/10 films. As a directorial safe pair of hands I could understand him for the first of the sequel trilogy but him helming its conclusion leaves me apprehensive.

[GoktimusPrime]

A lot of fans hate The Last Jedi because it was too different from expectations.
A lot of fans hate Solo A Star Wars story because it was too conservative and predictable.

Seems like they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Or perhaps it shows that Disney really need to focus on finding balance -- a movie that's not too conservative but not so daring that it makes fans feel like it's moved away from the spirit of Star Wars. I personally thought that the Sequels were going to be adaptations of we got from the books. I was looking forward to seeing the Yuzhan Vong on the big screen.

It also really doesn't help that Solo had 3 different directors. I don't know the story behind what happened or why... I've heard rumours of creative differences leading to the original 2 directors being sacked, leaving Ron Howard to come in and reshoot 70% of the film. Yikes. :/ Maybe studios either need to be better at picking their directors, or just have faith in the directors that they've chosen. I'd like to know what those creative differences were.

It's not like Justice League which also suffered from a late directorial change, because we all know that Zack Snyder had to quit that movie due to that awful tragedy that happened to his family. :( :(

[Ralph Wiggum]

Solo was written by Lawrence and Jonathon Kasdan. Lawrence being the writer of Empire Strikes Back, so I imagine he had a fair bit of standing within the studio. When the original directors allowed the actors to improvise a bit too much for the Kasdans’ liking...imo this is one reason why they were given the boot. The studio should’ve done a better job screening the directors and not pick ones who encouraged improv.

[Kranix]

Solo was the first Star Wars movie I didn't see at the cinema, partly because of all the bad reviews. What a mistake. I just saw it on Blu Ray and really enjoyed it. Maybe because I'm not a hard core fan but I found it as good to watch as the other films.

[GoktimusPrime]

I enjoy Solo too, but I can understand why others don't. It is a very safe and conservative "stay inside the lines" Star Wars movie. But as I mentioned before, The Last Jedi was a "colour outside the lines" movie and fans hated that too, so it's hard to know exactly what fans want.

It's interesting to hear that the original directors were sacked due to allowing improv. Taika Waititi allowed loads of improvisation on Thor Ragnarok and that worked out really well. :) And heck, a lot of the best humour in Michael Bay's Transformers were improvised by the cast. Much the more cringeworthy attempts at humour in Bayformers was scripted.
e.g.
Devastator having balls = scripted
"There is no tighter shirt, we checked" = improvised

And of course, Han Solo's epic reply to Leia's "I love you" was improvised by Harrison Ford too. :) Then again, I don't know what was being improvised... maybe it was out of hand and not suitable to what they were trying to go for, I don't know. But I agree that the studio should've done a better job in selecting the directors that they wanted.

[shockNwave]

Keep in mind that Thor is not the most popular of Marvel heroes and furthermore, after the first two Thor movies it wasn't looking good for the franchise so it was a wise gamble to let the director have such free reign.

And so the only complaints will be from the Thor diehards who are few and far between but the Star Wars universe is another story altogether where it's now impossible to please everyone more so than ever. It's just too popular for it's own good.:(

[MayzaPrime]

What a coincidence I also watched this recently

Did I skip it at the movies? Yes
Did I borrow the DVD from a mate to watch it? Yes
Did I enjoy it? Yes
Would I buy it? No
Would I watch it again? No

For me it is a very much take it and leave it movie...

[GoktimusPrime]

My nine year old started watching this movie today... she wasn't terribly engaged by it. :/
I guess because much of the appeal is for fans of the OT ... it kinda runs off the power of nostalgic references and if those references don't mean much then I suppose it's not so entertaining. She did seem more interested when Han met Chewbacca, because obviously she knows who Chewbacca is. But many of the more subtle references just flew over her head.

Rogue One is also a fan's movie, but she knows enough about Star Wars to enjoy that. I guess because Rogue One only requires you to have basic knowledge of the movies, whereas Solo requires more in-depth knowledge like the significance of the dice, the significance of the blaster, what a Crime Syndicate is yada yada yada. But even for fans who know this stuff it's like, I get it but still meh.

As the Honest Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWyncgcwyoc) says, not everything needs an explanation!

[shockNwave]

My nine year old started watching this movie today... she wasn't terribly engaged by it. :/
I guess because much of the appeal is for fans of the OT ... it kinda runs off the power of nostalgic references and if those references don't mean much then I suppose it's not so entertaining. She did seem more interested when Han met Chewbacca, because obviously she knows who Chewbacca is. But many of the more subtle references just flew over her head.

Rogue One is also a fan's movie, but she knows enough about Star Wars to enjoy that. I guess because Rogue One only requires you to have basic knowledge of the movies, whereas Solo requires more in-depth knowledge like the significance of the dice, the significance of the blaster, what a Crime Syndicate is yada yada yada. But even for fans who know this stuff it's like, I get it but still meh.

As the Honest Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWyncgcwyoc) says, not everything needs an explanation!

That Honest Trailer is very funny but something it should've also mentioned is that children who grew up in the 70's, 80's & 90's we're not subjected to sensory overload via the internet where everyman and his dog is trying to be the next Lucas/Roddenberry or thereabouts.

P.S. "An explosion a day keeps Michael at Bay." Huh:confused:? Don't they mean "A Nolan a day keeps Michael at Bay"?;)