Overrated and Underrated Toys

[GoktimusPrime]

There are toys that fans can love or hate despite the inherent designs/engineering being better or worse than fans might give them credit for.

Example of Overrated Toys
Generation 1 Decepticon Jets: Ah, the Seekers. Widely loved by fans to the point that HasTak can repaint any Starscream mould into his Seeker brethren and we will throw our money at them. They can even make up new guys like Acid Storm and Sunstorm -- have more of our money! Yet when you stop and think about it, the G1 Diaclone Jet moulds are pretty lame, even by early G1 standards. These toys are essentially just "cigars" with lots of detachable accessories tacked all over them. And for no apparent reason the wings and stabilisers are removable! :eek: Removable fists, landing gears and weapons are understandable, and these were common things by 80s engineering standards. But why are the wings and stabilisers removable? Their removability serves no purpose! No other G1 jet has needlessly removable wings or stabilisers; Powerglide, Jetfire, the Aerialbots, Astrotrain, Blitzwing, Broadside, Sky Lynx, Blast-Off et al. Even having the stabilisers glued on and have the wings attached via pins would've been better. The end result is that a lot of kids lost the detachable parts for the Jets and had nothing but the core "cigar" body. The toy is completely incapable of transforming into a jet, and the robot mode doesn't fair much better.

Examples of Underrated Toys
Generation 1 Ironhide and Ratchet: Yep, the two Autobot Cars who cop a lot of flak from fans. But is it completely warranted? Consider this - if you lose all the parts for a Decepticon Jet then it's no longer a jet and a fistless robot. If you lose every part for Ironhide and Ratchet the you still have:
(A) a functional vehicle mode. It's practically a really open ute, but not much better or worse than Kup. It has four wheels and a vehicle front that would house an engine and has a driver's compartment. It still works as a car.
(B) a functional robot mode. The front section is the robot, and the caboose forms a mobile platform for the robot to stand on. While this platform helps to complete the look of the vehicle, it's unnecessary for the formation of the robot mode.
https://image.ibb.co/butC19/temp.jpg
DISCLAIMER: This doesn't mean that I dislike the G1 Seekers. I love them! But I can also see their inherent design flaws. I also really like G1 Ironhide and Ratchet, but I totally understand why a lot of fans dislike them. The fact that a good chunk of the vehicle is a detachable (and therefore losable) platform is pretty poor - no other Autobot Car has that issue.

[SharkyMcShark]

Overrated
Classics G1 Deluxe Seeker
I've always thought that this mold was trash. It lacks basic articulation, has an uninteresting transformation, odd proportions, and can't even aim it's weapons properly. The alt mode looks fairly terrible from any angle that isn't top down. Can we please get a do-over?

Underrated
Thrilling 30 Voyager Springer
One of the best Transformers figures ever, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen it pilloried as been too lanky. To be fair this is a generally well rated figure, but I think that it's an all time classic.

[dirge]

Underrated: G1 Seekers. Yes. That's right.

Why? While parts needlessly detach, they're not really partsformers. The landing gear and fists are the only parts that need to detach. And I would argue that Transformers wouldn't be where they are today without Screamer, Skywarp and of course (no bias here at all...) Dirge.

Overrated? Many of the Armada "bulks". For the sake of picking what's probably my least favourite, let's say Megatron.

Why? I know Armada sold well, but it largely abandoned the poseability of the Beast Era & Car Robots moulds that preceded it... and while there were still some nice Transformers in the line, the aesthetic pretty much told alt mode realism to go sit on it. Megatron gets the award because he's a relatively unposeable (and expensive) robot with odd colours that turns into a robot lying down pretending to be a tank.

Disclaimer: I swear I'm not just trying to annoy Gok. If I manage to do so... well yeah I'll consider it a bonus :D

[BigTransformerTrev]

Overrated: MP Star Sabre - never paid so much for a toy I ended up unimpressed with and hope never to again



Overrated? Many of the Armada "bulks". For the sake of picking what's probably my least favourite, let's say Megatron.
D

Heh - I was going to say the Unicron Trilogy toys were underrated. Yeah there were a few unimpressive ones in each line - Smokescreen, Sideswipe and Scavenger from Armada for example, but on the whole I found all 3 lines pretty fun and at least they weren’t the teeny toys you get today. Plus I reckon Mini-Cons and Cyber Keys were better gimmicks than the Prime Masters that turn into cubes we are currently getting

[Sutton]

While not a specific figure, I think a lot of the time this fandom goes into 'woo-girl' mode when a popular character gets a new toy, even when objectively the new toy has a really average design.

The recent Optimal Optimus is a good example of that, I think, and there's a ton of examples of it about to happen in the new 'Siege' line.

[Sutton]

Underrated
Thrilling 30 Voyager Springer
One of the best Transformers figures ever, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen it pilloried as been too lanky. To be fair this is a generally well rated figure, but I think that it's an all time classic.

Absolutely.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Overrated: MP Star Sabre - never paid so much for a toy I ended up unimpressed with and hope never to again

I would go opposite for this, I'm a massive G1 Star Sabre mark and just think the MP one is amazing.

I think MP-10 is overrated, due to the disproportionate look of OP in bot mode, truck looks lovely though, I'm looking forward to the new one coming out, because I think it will nail bot mode and perhaps sacrifice alt mode, which is fine due to MP-10.


Underrated are the Takatoku G1 figures, all of them. A different aesthetic to the other G1 bots no doubt but they are just so damn cool looking.

[SMHFConvoy]

Overrated: Armada Hoist an "upgrade" of Armada Smokescreen, hampered by the unecessary minicon gimmick

Underrated: Armada Smokescreen, sure 5 points of articulation but hey, fun toy, working winch and the crane is geared to the head swivel.

[Galvatran]

Underrated: G1 Seekers. Yes. That's right.
Amen brother (not just coz G1 Dirge was my first Transformer toy either).

[Jellico]

One thing the G1 Seekers did that no other jet did (Macross or Machine Men included) was to put an actual cockpit in the chest without putting a nose cone in the crotch. It was a touch that I appreciated. Also the positioning of the arms was notably different in an age of sliding them out from the side.

[FatalityPitt]

Underrated: Spittor. He has a recognizable alt-mode (a semi-realistic frog), has a well-articulated robot mode with ball-joints, and he has a projectile tongue gimmick in frog mode; which can be used in robot mode to simulate him head-butting his victims. Compare this, a basic class toy which is literally 20 years old, to a scout class Cyberverse toy of 2018.

Overrated: Reveal the Shield Perceptor. Robot mode looks good, but the vehicle mode looks rather boring and un-Perceptor-like. It was an over-complicated pain in the arse to transform. Ultimately it was like a shell-former where most of the robot mode body got covered up by panels folded from the legs. What made it complicated was the way everything had to be arranged so that they could all fit within the shell. The toy also didn't come with any weapons, and the yellow light-piping feature got cancelled out because they painted eyes.... Yellow (seriously, who the heck does that :confused:)

[dirge]

Heh - I was going to say the Unicron Trilogy toys were underrated. Yeah there were a few unimpressive ones in each line - Smokescreen, Sideswipe and Scavenger from Armada for example, but on the whole I found all 3 lines pretty fun and at least they weren’t the teeny toys you get today. Plus I reckon Mini-Cons and Cyber Keys were better gimmicks than the Prime Masters that turn into cubes we are currently getting

Note that I specifically said Armada bulks. I like the Minicons, overall. I gave away most of my Armada toys, but kept the vast majority of the Minicons!

I didn't care for Cyber Keys... but then I don't care for gimmicks that force a block of "thing" into the Transformer. I'm not a fan of Prime Masters... to the point that I have ignored the add on ones. My Repugnus, Punch etc, the Prime Masters just stayed in the box!

[TaZZerath]

Having such a small collection this is tough for me but I'll try my best.

Underrated: Generations Voyager Brainstorm. I just felt that as soon as TR Brainstorm came along, everyone forgot about this guy. I know he's not a great scale, but for me he is a really faithful IDW representation, and he helped 'feel out' the return of Headmasters for the TR line. Plus he is simple to transform, and has working Tech Specs (which the later TR's lack).

Bonus points for Springer too. I've already touted my love for this guy.

Overrated: Duocons Battleslash/Roadtrap. The idea was a great one; have a Duocon which can actually have individual robot modes. But my GOD the transformations are fiddly. Definitely one of the biggest let-downs in my collection apart from his combined mode, which is how he'll stay.

[KELPIE]

Underrated: G1 Overdrive. Such a great toy, easy to transform, not bad articulation for the time AND had a fun battle mode, being his flying car... of which the front guns doubled as hidden chest guns. Pew, pew.

Overrated: Leader size figures. It's just a terrible scale and more often than not results in terrible toys.

[GoktimusPrime]

Underrated: G1 Overdrive. Such a great toy, easy to transform, not bad articulation for the time AND had a fun battle mode, being his flying car... of which the front guns doubled as hidden chest guns. Pew, pew.
Agreed! He's my favourite Omnibot and my favourite BT toy! :D
Overrated: Leader size figures. It's just a terrible scale and more often than not results in terrible toys.[/QUOTE]
Eh, I find most bad Leaders are due to the interfering sound gimmick. Those without sound gimmicks tend to be better (e.g. CW Megatron).

[KELPIE]

Eh, I find most bad Leaders are due to the interfering sound gimmick. Those without sound gimmicks tend to be better (e.g. CW Megatron).

While that may be, I feel that if the exact same figure was downsized, they would be far superior.

[GoktimusPrime]

While that may be, I feel that if the exact same figure was downsized, they would be far superior.
I don't think a downsized CW Megatron would be better, and people would whinge that it's not big enough (e.g. Universe Galvatron).

In many cases I find that the Voyager vs non-sound gimmicked Leader versions of toys aren't much better or worse than the other.
e.g. TLK Optimus Prime & Megatron; I find both VOYs and LDRs to be just as good as each other. Although I bought the Voyagers cos cheaper and more space-saving. ;) But I don't think that the Leaders are any worse for being larger. JMO. :)

[janda the red]

Underrated: G1 Seekers. Yes. That's right.

Amen! any other opinion is just sacrilege!!! :p

[Jellico]

While that may be, I feel that if the exact same figure was downsized, they would be far superior.

Oh. You mean the new Voyager WFC:Siege Megatron. He looks like he has the same engineering except ending up as a H Tank.

[GoktimusPrime]

He looks like he has the same engineering except ending up as a H Tank.
I haven't really had a close look at Siege Megatron, but bear in mind that CW Megatron offers:
* A realistic looking tank mode (of fictitious make/model)
* Working treads
* Rotatable turret
* Retractable barrel
* Missile launcher
* Guns that can separate into 2 or combine into a single rifle
* Cannon can swivel in robot mode to allow for either missile firing gimmick or more G1-esque broad barrelled look
* G1 style robot mode with Spark chamber inside chest (as seen in the episode "Master Blaster")

Now of course, Leaders are twice the price of Voyagers so I wouldn't expect a Voyager to have all of these features or achieve this level of engineering. But as I said before, I find both Voyagers and Leaders to be both pretty good for their respective size and price points.

[KELPIE]

Oh. You mean the new Voyager WFC:Siege Megatron. He looks like he has the same engineering except ending up as a H Tank.

I doubt that he has the same engineering.

Look at what can be accomplished with deluxe sized Transformers. Bigger isn't always better. The bigger they are, the more hollow plastic is added, the more unwieldy the toy, the less transportable, the more room it takes up the dumber it looks next to other figures in the line. They normally have more of those clicky ratcheted joints that make potability stiff and awkward.

[GoktimusPrime]

I know what you mean, and in a general sense I agree. Often the smaller toys are better and are typically superior value for money. Legends Class ROTF Jetfire is proportionately far superior to Leader Jetfire, and Legends Class ROTF Devastator is still by far the best set of toys that we've ever had for the ROTF Constructicons. Far superior to the utter steaming pile of garbage that was Combiner Class Devastator.

So you're right, bigger isn't always better... but sometimes it can be just as good - and again, I'm speaking in relative terms. Examples:
* Voyager vs Leader TLK Optimus Prime - I skipped Leader TLK OP but I own the original AOE Generations Leader OP (same mould) and I have Voyager TLK OP. Both are very nice toys for their respective size and price. I don't really consider one to be better or worse than the other for what I paid.
* Voyager vs Leader TLK Megatron - I skipped Leader TLK Megatron in favour of the Voyager, but I've seen/handled someone else's Leader TLK Megatron and it's just as good a toy. Being of equal goodness it doesn't inspire me to go and buy the Leader since I'm happy enough with the Voyager, but I don't consider the Leader to be inferior either.
* Legends Vs Deluxe 2018 Movie Bumblebee - I love both of these toys. Sure, the Legends doesn't have elbow articulation, but for a cheap little toy I'm more than happy to let that slide. Speaking of sliding, I love how the Legends figure is compatible with the Ignition motor gimmick.

I absolutely agree that bigger toys aren't necessarily better than smaller ones, and there are numerous examples where smaller toys are superior to their larger counterparts. But I'm just saying that this isn't always the case and that there are other cases where the larger figure is just as good as the smaller one. Although having said that, while we can see many cases where the smaller toys are superior, there are far fewer cases where the larger toys are superior -- at best they seem to be on par but not better. There are rare exceptions like Leader Class Animated Megatron who I think is hands down the best version of Animated Megatron. But these are exceedingly rare. So IMO...
+ Smaller toys are usually better than bigger toys
+ Sometimes bigger toys can be just as good as smaller toys, but rarely better

RE: Hollow plastic
Transformers have been using hollow parts since at least the mid 1990s (there are probably earlier examples, but 1995 comes to my mind atm). But for at least 23 out of the 34 years that we've been collecting these toys, there have been hollow parts. Another thing to bear in mind is that hollow parts does not necessarily mean a compromise in the integrity of the parts or even the weight of the toy.
e.g. Combiner Wars Hook weighs 176g without holding any weapons vs Generations Springer who weighs 147g while holding all weapons.
So some of these toys with hollow parts are actually weightier than those without.

[UltraMarginal]

While that may be, I feel that if the exact same figure was downsized, they would be far superior.


I don't think you quite understand the manufacturing process. Making a voyager toy out of a Leader class Megatron doesn't automatically turn it into a Soundwave. :p;)





* G1 style robot mode with Spark chamber inside chest (as seen in the episode "Master Blaster")


Say WHAAAATT??

[Jellico]

I doubt that he has the same engineering.


Certainly. On one hand the basic shape and transformation is the same. Fore treads end up on the back. Legs are the rear treads. Arms for the turret with the fusion cannon in between.

OTOH the devil is in the details. The legs face the opposite direction transformed. The shoulder structure/turret rotation is simplified (more like the Legends one). No rolling treads. No firing missile.

I will be very intrigued to see what carries over and what doesn't. Some things like the turret rotation were probably too complex for the scale, but the legs seem lazy. All good fun.

[SharkyMcShark]

Under rated - GDO Cliffjumper.

Can't understand the indifference that this figure faces. Fun transformation, a fitting alt mode and integrated weaponry. Yes it's literally the exact same figure as TFP FE Cliffjumper with a single different paint app and a new head. It's still bloody awesome

[GoktimusPrime]

Yes it's literally the exact same figure as TFP FE Cliffjumper with a single different paint app and a new head. It's still bloody awesome
I think this explains why this figure is often overlooked. I'm sure it's a great figure as TFPFE Cliffy is a great figure. :)

[Bidoofdude]

Generations Legends Bumblebee/Cliffjumper gets a lot of hate, but he's a pretty spiffy toy, albeit with a stiff head. If it could rotate, he'd be fantastic. I love the transformation.