Movie Review - (TF6) Transformers Bumblebee

[griffin]

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/news/2018/121401.jpg


"Transformers 6" - Transformers Bumblebee

Release in Australia - December 20th (advance screenings December 14-16, Preview screenings December 9 & 12)
Other release dates and details here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=25049).



Running time - 1h 54min

Human cast (actor - character)
Hailee Steinfeld - Charlie Watson
John Cena - Agent Burns
John Ortiz - Agent Powell
Christian Hutcherson - Howie (Sector 7 Tech)
Glynn Turman - General Whalen

Robot cast (robot - voice actor)
Bumblebee -
Dropkick - Justin Theroux
Shatter - Angela Bassett
Optimus Prime - Peter Cullen
Blitzwing - David Sobolov

Production
Director - Travis Knight
Story - Christina Hodson
Screenplay - Christina Hodson, Kelly Fremon Craig
Producers - Steven Spielberg, Brian Goldner (Hasbro), Chris Brigham, Mark Vahradian, Michael Bay, Lorenzo di Bonaventura (plus 3 more)


--------------------------------------


Post your reviews, thoughts, comments, and vote on the poll (or just give a score out of 5 or 10 in your posting).


SPOILERS!!!!! (seriously, if you haven't seen it yet and plan to, why are you looking at a review topic about it?)


http://www.toycollectors.com.au/news/2018/081001.jpg

[Fungal Infection]

Just got back from this, 2nd best after the first movie, but only just. Full review when I get home.

[Fungal Infection]

Okay, just caught an advance screening and I must say, Bumblebee is close to the best movie in the live action universe. I still rank the first live action movie as the best but I guess a lot of that is because it was the first, and I still recall the sense of awe I had seeing transformers make the transition to the big screen. That being said, if it weren't for the nostalgic wonder I had for the first movie, this would definitely be there. What made me like this movie so much is that nothing feels forced - no BS jokes regarding robot balls, no booty shots, no cliched boy gets the girl ending. Everything feels like its been done for a reason, and the story is better for it. The movie definitely has a different feel to it - the first 5 movies had Michael Bay's prints all over them. While Bay is listed as a producer for this one, it doesn't feel like a Bay film - no massive explosions, no long, drawn out action sequences, just enough to advance the storyline. And the heroine is well developed - she's strong, independent and able to stand on her own as a character. John Cena's character is solid as well - he's determined to protect Earth, even if it means destroying Bumblebee, but he does so out of a sense of duty rather than pure hatred. But enough of the human side - lets talk about the robots! There are really only 4 characters in this movie, that being Bee, Shatter, Dropkick and Blitzwing. And some brief cameos from some other G1 stalwarts as well! Optimus, Soundwave, Shockwave and the others seen in the preview appear only in flashback sequences of Cybertron. But its enough to set up the movie and its subsequent sequels. And there are easter eggs galore - the last scene in the movie, the cybertronian flashback scenes, the selection of songs. Oh, the soundtrack? Being an 80s kid, the song selection for the movie ticked every box for me. I'm actually tempted to get a copy of the OST but I already have 3/4s of the tracks. But its certainly a highlight of the movie. I don't know if there's anything more I can say about this film - it hit all the right notes for me. Just a shame there isn't more decent toys for it, I'd love an SS Shatter in both alt forms not to mention Dropkick (car mode) and Blitzwing. Regardless, a fantastic return to form for the TF live action universe.

[griffin]

I think if you go and see it, tell yourself it is a first chapter reboot... as there were bits that clashed with Bay's movies, and if you forget everything that happened in the first five, this one makes a lot more sense to watch.
And I'd be happy to see more episodes of this new time line, even if it uses elements from the first five movies (like sector seven, agent simmons and the Camaro Bumblebee), as this movie has set up a good foundation for more.
The Easter eggs were nice... hopefully all intentional, like the inclusion of Judd Nelson in the Breakfast Club, who voiced Hotrod in the 1986 movie.
Worth seeing, more than the last two Movies... as it had a lot more emotion to the story, making you laugh (cleanly this time) and even shed a tear or two.
A couple of sticking points though - the previews with John Cena being the big bad military guy made it really hard to warm up to him, especially at the beginning when he was being the lovable instructor of his military squad... and the (boy)friend of Charlie seemed really redundant to the plot (he could have been omitted and I don't think he would have been missed), and not sure why he had stubble, since he was supposed to be a school student (I know it school kids can have full beards, but these were supposed to be a couple of kids/teenagers... so should have been made to look like young kids).
If this movie is supposed to be in the same universe as the first five movies, there are a number of things that don't make sense... especially since the Decepticon duo having access to the Sector Seven archives and were in Hoover Dam... but didn't discover Megatron or the Cube.

[doublespy]

Although I don't think it's as good as some of the early reviews made it out to be, I genuinely enjoy the movie.

My thoughts:
- plot is not its strong suit imho. Although much better than the Bay films a lot of things jut don't make sense to me. How Charlie revived Bumblebee sticks out from memory now.

- But, it handles individual scenes so much better, and there's actual character development.

- the bond between Charlie and Bee is a little forced but very heart warming. I can't help but have flashbacks of Spike and G1 Bumblebee.

- the TFs actually fight like humans would in a real fight, not badly choreographed cheap Kung Fu movie knock offs. And the ability to transform is used wonderfully (as transformers should) for either combat (the fight scene where Bumblebee turns into alt mode and uses the momentum to jump up and transforms back mid-air gave flashback of Jazz in the S1 opening), or utility (half transformed to squeeze through the door? that's quite ingenious)

- Bee transformed on screen at least 10 times and it looks so realistic and is consistent with where parts go. The cleaner robot aesthetics certainly helps to;

- The G1 homages and easter eggs for fans are really nice. It's wonderful to see Brawn, Arcee, or Cliffjumper etc. so recognizable, and with the G1 transformation sound effect to boot. I smiled when Bee played "The Touch" from his radio.

Overall, it's been said many times already but this is probably the Transformers live action movie we'd all wanted from the get go or thought we were gonna get. A very enjoyable movie too, not just for die hard TF fans.

[GoktimusPrime]

Excellent film, and I've posted about the positive things that I think about the movie without mentioning spoilers on the Movie Review thread (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12717&page=131) - so please read my post there to see all the things that I loved about this film. And I do largely love this movie - I would rate it 4½ out of 5 stars :)

Before I get into my nitpicks, I'll mention one neutral thing -- I don't think this is either a positive or negative. The plot is essentially the plot of E.T. Kids discover alien who lives in their home but it needs to be hidden from the parents. Main kid character is going through emotional issues which the alien friend helps to resolve. Alien trashes the house. Secret government operatives capture the alien - operatives are antagonists but not villains. Kids have to stage a daring rescue of their alien friend who needs to requires resurrection. Alien phones home and more of his kind come to Earth. :p
Obviously there's a lot more to Bumblebee than this - including the backdrop of an intergalactic civil war and having actual villains in the story etc. -- I'm not saying that this story is a retelling of E.T., but the similarities between the two are there.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Many movies have become successful by drawing inspiration from previous films. Star Wars drew inspiration from Kurosawa Akira films like "The Hidden Fortress," and The Magnificent Seven was inspired by "The Seven Samurai" etc. So I have no problem with Bumblebee being inspired by E.T. This isn't a complaint, just an observation. :)

----------------------------------------------------

But I'm gonna be nitpicking some minor things here, because this is the thread where I can discuss spoilers. But again, I am disclaiming that these are minor nitpicks and it by no means that I think that I hate the movie. As I said, I rate it 4½ stars, so this rant is about the "missing ½ star.: :p So yeah, love love love the movie and I can't wait to watch it again, but here are a few minor things that stood out to me. :)

The magical disappearing and reappearing Moped
When Charlie's mum is driving the dog to the vet, we see Charlie catch up on her Moped and she gets into the car with mum and continues driving. And abandons the Moped. But we later see the Moped reappear! Charlie and Memo ride off the save Bumblebee on the Moped, and we later see Memo arrive at the shipyard on Charlie's Moped. So I guess that nobody stole that Moped for the number of hours it was left abandoned... and the Moped somehow found its way home. Maybe the Moped's a secret Autobot too. :p

How do all of the Transformers know English?
And I don't mean hearing them speak English off-world -- the audience can assume that the dialogue is translated for our convenience. But I mean the Transformers arriving on Earth and speaking and immediately the humans can understand them. Also, all of the Cybertronian's text (including Bumblebee's HUD) is in English. When S7 started attacking Bumblebee and he started speaking back to them, they didn't seem to understand what he was saying. When he told them to run from Blitzwing, they didn't run. So the audience might assume that they're not speaking the same language. But when Shatter and Dropkick arrive, they can be understood by humans as soon as they speak. And all of the Cybertronians on Earth can understand English. The movie only needed a quick explanation for this -- like maybe one of the S7 people remarking about how they can speak English, and say Shatter can say that they've acquired their language by scanning radio signals. It's similar to how Optimus Prime told Mikaela that they learnt Earth's languages via the World Wide Web. The explanation only takes a few seconds. And yeah, I would've preferred to see the text written in Cybertronian -- you can have the text "transform" into English for the audience's benefit as we had in the 2007 live action film.

Cars in 1987 had seat belts
When the stepdad mentions that they really gotta get seat belts for their car... uh... cars HAD seat belts by the 80s. It was compulsory to wear them. As a kid in the 80s I remember my mum was driving down the motorway and my brother and I weren't wearing our seat belts -- a police officer pulled us over and issued my mum with a fine. So yeah, we definitely had wear our seat belts back then too! Bit of an odd historical inaccuracy there.

Otis wears his Karate-Gi incorrectly
He wears his Gi right over left instead of left over right, which is a social taboo in Japan where it's actually offensive. This is because traditionally the only time a person is dressed with their kimono backwards is... at their own funeral. Yikes! Having said that, I've seen my fair share of people in Australia who wear their Gi backwards - obviously due to cultural ignorance, and this is most likely the case here. It's not necessarily even a flaw with the film - the fact is that a lot of Westerners do wear their Gi incorrectly. I can imagine some Japanese audiences wincing at this though. ;)

Some moments felt needlessly repeated
e.g.
* Bumblebee transforming to robot mode, towering over Charlie, and then retreating into the corner of the garage cowering. Only to be interrupted by Charlie's mum and Bumblebee's transformed back to vehicle mode, but when mum leaves the exact same thing happens again.
* Bumblebee violently ejecting cassettes playing songs he doesn't like - this happened twice, once for The Smiths and once again for Rick Astley. Once would've been fine (I would've just gone with Astley).
Sometimes less is more and I felt that these moments kinda lost a big of oomph when they were repeated.

...and, uh... uh... that's pretty much it. Seriously. With the Bayformers films I can write mega-long lists of what's wrong with them, many of them being fairly major flaws. But with Bumblebee I can't really think beyond less than a handful of nitpicks, and admittedly pretty minor ones at that. When I review a Bayformer film, I struggle to think of nice things to say about it. Just look at my review of The Last Knight (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=565211&postcount=11)... a lot of the Pros that I mentioned involve me scraping the bottom of the barrel. Seriously... things like "Nobody got peed on or humped!" and the fact that one of the highlights was an obscure quote in a dead language just goes to show how desperate I was to find any forms of praise. I had to think hard to come up with positives but it was too easy to unleash all the negatives. With Bumblebee it's the other way around -- I have to think hard about what negatives I can say about it, but talking about the positives is as easy as... leaking lubricant! :D

But yeah, as I disclaimed, this is just me being nitpicky. On the whole Bumblebee really is a fantastic movie. I cannot wait to see it again and I cannot recommend this movie highly enough to everyone, whether you're a fan, hater or just never cared about the other Transformers movie. Everyone can love this film. :) Unless you're a lover of Bayformers, then yeah, you might hate Bumblebee because it flies in the opposite direction. I have seen at least one very negative review, but these reviewers also rated Revenge of the Fallen very highly. As I said in my spoiler-free review on the Movie thread, if you're a dead-set lover of Bayformers and Bayisms, then there's a chance that you might not enjoy Bumblebee.

[Jellico]

I knew the US was backwards on seatbelts so I thought to check.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_laws_in_the_United_States

Turns out really backwards.

So cars had to be built with them from 1968. But enforcement only happened in the 80s with 86 for California.

[djanscak]

The magical disappearing and reappearing Moped

It’s a tribute to Prime’s trailer. ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

Turns out really backwards.

So cars had to be built with them from 1968. But enforcement only happened in the 80s with 86 for California.
Holy crap that's backwards! :eek: But According to the link the state of California (where Bumblebee is set in) started enforcing seat belts on 1/1/1986, so by 1987 when this film happens it would have been mandatory.

It’s a tribute to Prime’s trailer. ;)
Arise, Charlima Prima!

[FruitBuyer]

Just saw it and loved it. Most impressively it makes me want to buy a MPM-7

[GoktimusPrime]

Okay, now I'd like to focus on what I liked about Bumblebee. I'm not going to list every moment that I enjoyed or we'd be here forever. ;) Instead I'm going to focus on what I think is the general crux of what I think makes Bumblebee such an enjoyable movie.

Basically Travis Knight has done the opposite of what Michael Bay has done.
Bayformers = the story and its characters serves the action and effects
Knightformers = the action and effects serve the story and its characters
This shift in focus alone makes a world of difference. We finally have a Transformers film that elicits the audience to become emotionally invested in these characters. We end up actually caring about what happens to them.

Connectedness and the search for identity

https://i.ibb.co/PtMXBbh/temp.jpg

One thing I'd like to focus on in this post is the relationship between Charlie and Bumblebee and how it's completely different from Bumblebee's relationship with Sam Witwicky or Cade Yeager. One important difference: there is no MacGuffin. There's no extrinsic motivator that compels Bumblebee and Charlie to be with each other. In the 2007 movie Bumblebee was drawn to Sam because of the glasses. He wasn't necessarily looking to befriend Sam, he needed to obtain the glasses in order to find the MacGuffin. Bumblebee ended up befriending Sam was an incidental by-product of his mission. In Age of Extinction, Bumblebee only allied himself with Cade Yeager because he had already found Optimus Prime and rebuilt him. And this was done because Cade the inventor wanted to become rich by making more inventions because he's an inventor. He was motivated by self-interest, and Optimus Prime and the other Autobots similarly allied themselves with Cade out of self-preservation. In other words, each of these relationships had extrinsic motivations; there were compelling needs for them to be with each other.

When Charlie and Bumblebee first meet, there is no compelling need. Charlie didn't possess any MacGuffin that he was seeking. Bumblebee wasn't being hunted at the time. He could've just driven off and left Charlie alone - there was no reason to stay. And Charlie could've told her mum and called the authorities, there was no reason for her to protect Bumblebee. She wasn't going to "patent the crap" out of Bumblebee. But Charlie and Bumblebee ended up bonding and staying with each other because they wanted to, not because they had to. Their relationship is stronger and deeper because it was more of a conscious choice rather than something that happened out of absolute necessity.

Both Charlie and Bumblebee fulfilled a higher level of need; their emotional needs. A sense of security, belonging and love. Bumblebee was obviously suffering from memory loss and he had lost his voice. He was frightened and utterly alone. Charlie was still traumatised by the loss of her father; something that even her own family were unable to really help her with because they had emotionally moved on but she hadn't.

https://i.ibb.co/7KNY46j/temp.jpg

Charlie's relationship with her father provides the basis for her bonding with Bumblebee, and in turn this helps Charlie to come to terms with the loss of her father as everything comes full circle. We know that Charlie's dad shared his passion for automotive mechanics with her, and that they were building a car together before he passed away. He was her mentor, teacher and friend - passing on everything he knew through the love that they had. So when he passed away Charlie felt like her heart had been ripped out of her chest. She felt empty inside. But seeing the derelict Beetle made her want to restore it; for this was not only an important part of her personal identity, but a way for her to maintain her father's legacy as she had hit a wall with the other car. Perhaps she could succeed with the Beetle where she had failed with the Corvette. She was determined to bring Bumblebee back to life. And indeed she ends up triggering his reactivation. And of course her father was also an avid supporter of her diving, a skill which she would use to rescue Bumblebee. So again, another legacy of her father leading to Charlie's connection with Bumblebee. There's a very emotionally powerful moment towards the end of the film where we see a Polaroid of Charlie with Bumblebee next to a Polaroid of Charlie and her late father; showing us that everything has come full circle. Charlie and Bumblebee connect at a far deeper emotional level than we've ever seen before in Transformers.

Everyone is useful

https://i.ibb.co/JnSSC42/temp.jpg

Aside from background extras, there are very few if any wasted characters. Everyone serves a purpose. You remember what all of the main and supporting characters do because they actually do stuff that contributes to the plot. Even Charlie's family prove useful! And when a character's usefulness came to a draw, that character was set aside rather than just tagging along being a nuisance -- e.g. Memo didn't have a role to play in the final battle, so we see him volunteering to stay behind to buy Charlie and Bumblebee time (and his plan hilariously fails as S7 vehicles just drive around him :p). But this is so different from Bayformers where secondary human characters just tag along and don't do much other than screaming.

All the cringe-worthy Bayisms are gone

As others and I have already pointed out, a lot of the stuff that we have come to dislike about Bayformers and embarrassed us as TF fans are now gone in Bumblebee. Nobody gets peed on. Nobody gets humped. Nobody gets objectified. There is no enemy scrotum. No tasered scrotum. No Romeo & Juliet. No farting of parachutes. No close up of anyone's behinds. Very little coarse language; as in the S-word is only used twice. And you notice it more because it's used rarely. It makes Bumblebee far more family friendly and accessible to children.

It's given us something new (for Transformers)

We all know that Bayformers had become super formulaic. Nostalgia Critic's Non-Review of The Last Knight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctembQrH_0k) brilliantly pointed out just how ridiculously formulaic and predictable Transformers had become under Michael Bay as each movie just lathers, rinses and repeats the same plot over and over again ad nauseum. As I mentioned before, it's not a completely original plot being obviously inspired by E.T., but there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. It's not a remake of E.T.; as I said, it's inspired by E.T. There are plenty of things that happen in Bumblebee that never happened in E.T. such as the backdrop of an intergalactic civil war. :) It's still giving us a much needed big breath of fresh air from the stifling repetition of Bayformers. Watching a Transformers film no longer needs to be a guilty pleasure. Because with previous films you'd often say, "Yeah, The Last Knight was stupid, but I liked it anyway." Here you can proudly say that you enjoyed Bumblebee without the accompanying sense of embarrassment.

There are many more qualities in this film, but these are the main ones that stick out to me. :)

[Lord_Zed]

I saw it tonight, at an early screening in one of the more out of the way cinemas, so just like last week (when I saw into the Spiderverse, which was great by the way) it was a crowd free cinema.

So my initial thoughts on the movie are that it was pretty good, by no means perfect but still an above average, enjoyable film. For me there is no maybe's about it though, this is the best live action Transformer film to date by a country mile. In fact the end when Bumblebee transformed into a Camaro made me feel a bit sad that this film had to tie in with the crappy other films (somewhat), In fact I refuse to call this Transformers 6 at all.

Other reviewers on the thread have already mentioned some of the films pros, but a few dot points I want to mention that make this film stand head and shoulder over the previous films.

Likable characters and a small cast, my god how much does having likable characters make a film so much better, and unlike previous Transformers films and most blockbusters they kept the cast small, allowing them to concentrate and develop Bumblebee and Charlie's friendship.

The whole movie was smaller and contained, while it was a thrill to see the Cybertron shots, I like that this story was pretty much all Bumblebee and Charlie, and while the stakes were high (Deception Invasion and all) it was the emotional bond between Bumblebee and Charlie and their characterization that made the action rewarding rather than the usual earth destroying mega threat.

The Easter eggs were used well, and weren't always in your face, no doubt many fans will recount glimpsing various cameos among their favourite Easter eggs, but for me it's the was the use of the final scene of the Breakfast club that Griffin mentioned early. I think there is little doubt that the films creators knew that Judd Nelson was the original voice of Hot Rod, but this reference goes beyond that, not only was it a great nod to the 80's and released the same year that Transformers debuted, but the character arc of John Bender and the other kids in the Breakfast Club is basically akin to Charlie and Bumblebee in this film, both are essentially lost but find themselves by the end of the film, hence why I think the Breakfast Club reference showed up twice.

Most of all though the thing that really stood out to me though was the vibe of the whole film, in that it was positive and feel good, and not self important and mean spirited like the Bay directed films, this film actually was about friendship and ended on that note, the Bay films all end with a strange militant machismo of Optimums usually surrounded by soldiers, making some dour my name I Optimus Prime and we will fight on speech that somehow seems disingenuous, this film I actually walked out of feeling upbeat.


As for some of the cons of the movie, well yeah it is a bit silly that the Transformers all speak English of the bat, and sector 7 make some stupid decisions, but this that's kind of keeping with the source material, and it felt different from when the Bay directed films were stupid, because they take themselves too serious somehow, where as Bumblebee gave of a different vibe being genuinely concerned with the characters over those plot points.

Aside from that my only other gripe is that the plot not over original and predictable, but then many in the action blockbuster genre so I want hold that against it too much.

So overall a good film by general film standards, and a great film by modern toy to films standards IMHO, it easily trashes the other live action Transformer films, GI Joe films and recent Turtle films. In fact this film makes me feel even worse about those previous films because it proves you can make a good modern film from the concept.





Some moments felt needlessly repeated
e.g.
* Bumblebee violently ejecting cassettes playing songs he doesn't like - this happened twice, once for The Smiths and once again for Rick Astley. Once would've been fine (I would've just gone with Astley).
Sometimes less is more and I felt that these moments kinda lost a big of oomph when they were repeated.


Gotta disagree with you there, Bumblebee ejecting The Smiths was relevant to the story line when he plays the song again near the films end to communicate and warms up to it which further serves to underscore how his friendship with Charlie has deepened, cutting this scene and leaving the reference to the cut scene is the kind of bad directing Bay would do. If they had cut that scene the Astley ejection should have been the one to go as that was more of a wink at the internet meme.

Wow! I can't believe I'm having this kind of debate about a TF movie will wonders never cease.

[GoktimusPrime]

Gotta disagree with you there, Bumblebee ejecting The Smiths was relevant to the story line when he plays the song again near the films end to communicate and warms up to it which further serves to underscore how his friendship with Charlie has deepened, cutting this scene and leaving the reference to the cut scene is the kind of bad directing Bay would do. If they had cut that scene the Astley ejection should have been the one to go as that was more of a wink at the internet meme.
Fair point. :)

Wow! I can't believe I'm having this kind of debate about a TF movie will wonders never cease.
I know, right! :D We're actually able to analyse the story because there is a story :D

[Paulbot]

I've given it a few days, thought about the film a bit since I saw it on Friday and I think it was... okay.

This definitely still felt part of the Michael Bay Transformers universe. The only movie it actively contradicts is the last one, and what one joke line in the first film? And that last one's retcons make no sense - maybe Anthony Hopkin's character was a very unreliable narrator. It could all be squeezed together anyway without much effort IMHO.

There were elements of Michael Bay's humour too. Charlie's parents aren't too far removed from Sam's. The arguing couple in the desert felt like something from a Bay movie. The bit were someone was hanging upside down and calling out in pain while a bully kept shooting him with paintballs? He was supposed to be the lovable instructor? (Really Griffin?) The weirdness of the two teenager male characters both taking their shirts off and the whole party by the lake scene. Bumblebee's still killing every Decepticon he can as brutally as he can. Yes this is another in the line of those Transformers films.

Some of the inconsistencies within the movie bothered me. B-127 has an alien sounding name but the other named characters don't? Although I liked them, particularly Shatter, did either her or Dropkick actually give their names at any point? I was listening out to hear the name Blitzwing but seriously that could have been any "insert Decepticon name" (Ramjet would have been more suitable I think). The design looked cool though and I'd like an SS toy of it. I swear Shatter and Dropkick got extra kibble on their robot forms after scanning their aerial modes which was a nice touch. My Studio Series Dropkick toy doesn't feel at all like the character in the movie though.

I disagree with some of the other nitpics. Griffin I think african-american 18 year olds can have stubble but I'm not an expert. Why didn't they discover Megatron or the Cube? Why would they even think to look in the archives when they were just after B-127? Seat belt laws? A google says that California had laws but older cars that didn't have seat belts built it were excluded (I think for a while that was the same here, my dad's car had no backseat seatbelts in the early 80s). Otis's Gi is worn wrong? Makes sense since he is literally a try hard Karate Kid with his whole touch of death nonsense, of course he'd wear it wrong.

All that said, there were some cute moments, it was more competent film than many of the others so it's got that going for it. Some of the easter eggs were a bit on the nose. I did however say the F word out loud a few minutes in (after the cascade of G1 cameos) in surprise and amazement at what I'd just seen. But after the prologue, and maybe the Blitzwing fight, it was all a bit downhill for me.

I do wonder why might have been changed for the M to PG rating. I had thought it might have been the nature of Dropkick's gun killing humans (but US reviews mention the same effect). Only other guess is maybe some guns pointed at the humans might have been reduced/lowered. I assume it's violence towards humans that would matter since we saw multiple TFs totally disassembled.

[Tha_Phantom]

B-127 has an alien sounding name but the other named characters don't?

Yeah, I agree that it is weird only Bee has an alien sounding name and the rest are Optimus, Cliffjumper, etc. Not a huge deal though.


I swear Shatter and Dropkick got extra kibble on their robot forms after scanning their aerial modes which was a nice touch.

They did. I noticed it too. :)


Seat belt laws? A google says that California had laws but older cars that didn't have seat belts built it were excluded (I think for a while that was the same here, my dad's car had no backseat seatbelts in the early 80s).

Gok and I discussed this in person, California laws are different to Australian laws. You really should drop this point Gok, it is an American movie first and foremost, you can't expect everything to line up with our laws then or now. Even if it is historically inaccurate it affects the film in no way whatsoever really.

[GoktimusPrime]

Gok and I discussed this in person, California laws are different to Australian laws. You really should drop this point Gok, it is an American movie first and foremost, you can't expect everything to line up with our laws then or now. Even if it is historically inaccurate it affects the film in no way whatsoever really.
It was something we speculated in our face-to-face conversation post movie, but it was confirmed later when we spoke privately online (and was able to do a Google search) - and that was after I'd written up my initial review. :) It still struck me as odd when during my viewing in the cinema though, as obviously I'm not going to be using my phone to Google things during a movie. Unlike the guy sitting to my left who was intermittently checking his phone during the film :rolleyes: I even raised both my hands to block the backlight as a non-verbal hint for him to put it away, but he didn't get the clue. :mad:

[DaptoDog]

Took my son to watch it this avo. It was really special to be able to watch this movie together given the PG rating, it's how it should be. We were both in awe of the Cybertron scenes.

As much as I enjoy the original live action Transformers, this movie feels like it should have been the first entry in the franchise all along. There was so much more characterisation. Hailee Steinfeld had a fantastic performance, she was easily the best human character the series has had.

Hope they do more like this but with some more action and more bot characters next time.

[GoktimusPrime]

Hope they do more like this but with some more action and more bot characters next time.
Bear in mind that this movie was made with half the budget of a typical Bayformers film. :)

I felt it had some good action, but importantly, the action was driven by the story and not vice versa. The focus on a single Cybertronian protagonist was what allowed this story to thrive. Placing greater focus on an ensemble cast always means that you're not able to develop any single character as much. This is why Christopher Nolan refused to do crossovers between his Batman and any other DC hero; he was never on board for a shared cinematic universe or leading towards a Justice League movie. And even the MCU has attempted (not always successfully) to balance itself between movies that focus on single or few characters (e.g. Captain America Winter Soldier, Thro Ragnarok etc.) vs those focused on an ensemble cast (e.g. Captain America Civil War, Avengers etc.). But for the most part, the single-title movies tend to dance well with the ensemble cast films; this is why movies like the Avengers Trilogy (soon to be Quadrilogy) doesn't need to spend much time giving exposition to individual characters. It just assumes that you know these characters from the previous films and gets on with the story.

It'd be interesting to see if Paramount tries something similar with Transformers. Having stand alone movies to highlight individual 'bots and flesh them out as characters, then lump them together in an ensemble cast film. We have a stand alone Bumblebee movie. Then you have a stand-alone Optimus Prime one, maybe one on Jazz or Ratchet or whatever... then boom, lump them together in a collected Transformers movie. One thing I like about this formula is that because it takes time for the audience to know these characters before we seem them all together, it means that the characters have earned their screen presence. They have already worked to pre-establish an emotional connection with the audience. The movie no longer demands that the audience suddenly cares about half a dozen robots that they haven't gotten to know before on screen. This is why nobody cared about anyone on Justice League. Also because some of the screen presence that was previously earnt was un-earnt in JL... Batman who earned our respect as a grizzly older Batman suddenly became goofy and jokey. Wonder Woman who was a mentally powerful and strong character in her stand alone movie suddenly becomes emotionally fragile and unable to move past a tragedy that happened a century ago? Umm... what?

The Transformers live action movie franchise is a year older than the MCU, yet look at how much more the MCU has achieved compared to Transformers. Sure, they've made some mistakes along the way, but on the whole the MCU has gone for strength to strength whereas Transformers has become a cinematic joke. :(

Something else that Bumblebee did well in was to give us a relatable antagonist, and that was in the character of Jack Burns (John Cena). He's not a villain, but he is an antagonist. Sure, he's hammy (deliberately so), but importantly the audience is made to understand and empathise with why he feels such animosity against Cybertronians and why he wanted to hunt down B-127. Yeah, it was all a misunderstanding, but seeing from Jack's POV you can understand why he feels that way. And that's what can make antagonists more interesting - when we can actually empathise with them. Black Panther's Killmonger and Thanos are other examples of the relatable antagonist. Especially Killmonger given that in the end, he was right! And the hero of the story actually implemented many of his ideas (or ideas inspired by Killmonger) at the end of the film (e.g. opening Wakanda to the rest of the world, offering practical foreign aid etc.). No, Jack Burns is no where near on the same level as those guys, but the point is that he is still ultimately a relatable villain. Contrast this with Steppenwolf from Justice League... gah. Why do I give a crap about his quest for the Mother Boxes again? :p

The relatable antagonist becomes more than just a complication for the protagonist to resolve or overcome... they become a person in their own right. We aren't made to agree with Thanos' plans, but we are made to see where he's coming from. We don't agree with his methods, but we agree with his core concerns.

[Silverbolt]

I look for movies that can help me escape from reality for a while, are engaging and draw me in. Working in live entertainment, If i get drawn into a piece that allows me to turn off the analytical part of my brain and yet stay engaged. That usually means ita a good movie in my books. Especially if I'm still thinking about it the next day.

I believe i echo most sentiment here when i say wow, there was actually a story.
I remember the first movie was always pitched as being about a boy and his car, yet there was very little relationship built. It seems the real story about a boys and his car is actually the story about a girl and her car.

I like the fact that the movie didn't get distracted by itself. Scenes took the time they need to. It was like the directed got distracted midway a decided bugger it let only film the climactic bit and forget the lead in and out scenes. It flowed so much better and i found my self engaged and not sitting there wondering when the section would finish so we could have some story.

I really like that the bots alt modes were used in combat. Not just as a fly by or drive by, but their flighting style took advantage of their benefit that they can change mid fight for better position, manoeuvrability or firepower depending on what was needed.

When ever Bee was in a tight spot i kept thinking another bot will come in and save him in the nick of time. but as the scenario intensified i had to remind myself, he's on his own. Bee didn't alway win, although he survived which was great in that it keep me wondering how a fight would end.

Ultimately Charlie found emotional healing with Bumblebee to help get over the grief of her father dying, and Bumblebee needed Charlie to survive while waiting for his memory to reboot.
It sure beats having a character involved simply because they had a pair of glasses.

I can understand why Blitzwing was Blitzwing and not Starscream despite baring a resemblance to Starscream. It was for continuity with in the bayverse.
while on the opening chapter of the movie, It was good to see John Cena character actually had an emotional motivation for hating the transformers considering they wiped out his squad (collateral damage)

Seeing Optimus in 'that' truck mode at the end is a sweet touch and something I've wanted to see for a very long time.

If they keep going with with this mood for future moves. It may eventually bring some prestige back to the transformers live action movies. Because this movie proved you can treat the bots as characters, not just special effects.

[griffin]

Soooo... do people think it is really Optimus driving across the Golden Gate bridge at the end, or am I the only thinking it was just a visual easter egg for the fans... as Bumblebee just drove past him, and Optimus didn't appear to be on Earth until after that scene.

Actually... I think it would have been better to see the VW Bumblebee driving past that sort of truck just before he changed to a Camaro, to really be a really nice nod to Gen1.

[M-bot]

I really liked it! I wasn’t expecting much from John Cena and was pleasantly surprised - he’s got some acting chops and his comedic timing in his intro scene was spot on. He wasn’t usitilised very much through the rest of the movie though, I would have liked to see more of the humour he brought elsewhere. And he was kind-of shoehorned into the climax - I understand why he needed to be there for the sake of his character arc (and Bee’s I guess), but it still felt odd, like “oh yeah, John Cena’s here too!”.

I enjoyed Dropkick and Shatter and it’s a bit perplexing why those 2 don’t have more of a presence in various class sizes on toy shelves RIGHT NOW, while the movie is showing and it’s, y’know, CHRISTMAS. Prime too, for that matter.

There were a few nitpicky things, but I’d let those slide. It was basically a remake of The Iron Giant, but that’s OK - it was the writer and directors’s take on the franchise, and a perfectly sensible choice. Hailee Steinfeld did a terrific job.

Easily the best live action film. They could totally either use it as part of the established franchise (Camaro Bee, Sector 7, Simmons) or use it as a soft reboot (plenty of non-Bayverse G1 bots!). I’d be happy with the latter, for sure.

[griffin]

Soooo... do people think it is really Optimus driving across the Golden Gate bridge at the end, or am I the only thinking it was just a visual easter egg for the fans... as Bumblebee just drove past him, and Optimus didn't appear to be on Earth until after that scene.

Actually... I think it would have been better to see the VW Bumblebee driving past that sort of truck just before he changed to a Camaro, to really be a really nice nod to Gen1.


Looks like Hasbro agrees with everyone else (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=26097), in that it was Optimus driving across the Golden Gate Bridge, as it is specifically noted on the back of the box of SS-38.

[GoktimusPrime]

Eh, you can always head-canon it as just a regular truck if you prefer it. The film as it is leaves it open to interpretation which I think is cool.

When I first saw the truck driving across the bridge I just assumed it was a regular truck that happened to be coloured like G1 Optimus Prime as an Easter Egg. Then I saw the forest scene where Optimus Prime talking to Bumblebee, and that concluded for me that the truck was indeed Optimus Prime. But if people prefer to interpret it differently then I see nothing wrong with that. Many of us have head canon interpretations which may be different to official lore, but IMO as long as your head canon doesn't directly contradict official canon then why not? :o

P.S.: Transformers The Basics on Blitzwing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNTdYcFXHjg) just came out. McFeeley points out that Bumblebee Blitzwing is Blitzwing in name alone but is otherwise just another Seeker. Still... loads more character presence than most Bayformer 'Cons! :D

[griffin]

Saw it a second time today and picked up on a lot more things this time... but disappointed that both sessions (one at Hoyts one at Event) were quite empty with about 10 people at each.


How have the sessions been with other people here? Any packed cinemas like some of the earlier TFs movies?
I really hope this is just an oddity for my sessions, and doesn't mean that the movie will fail to make back enough to warrant more Movies (two disappointing efforts in a row would pretty much kill off the franchise).
I did see a number of really young kids at the session today, so the PG rating might be encouraging the family to see it as was intended (kids tickets are cheaper and is less money for the box office), instead of attracting the teens and young adults (which are full price tickets).

[BigTransformerTrev]

Took my son to watch it this avo. It was really special to be able to watch this movie together given the PG rating, it's how it should be. We were both in awe of the Cybertron scenes.

Yeah, I took my son (since he was turning 6) with his mates to see TF6 yesterday - he adored it! And the same - it was really special to be able to watch it together :)


Saw it a second time today and picked up on a lot more things this time... but disappointed that both sessions (one at Hoyts one at Event) were quite empty with about 10 people at each.

How have the sessions been with other people here? Any packed cinemas like some of the earlier TFs movies?

When we went yesterday morning there was hardly anyone in the cinema - but it was the 10.10am showing in Bathurst so prob would have been pretty dead no matter which movie it was. :rolleyes:

Oh, and I loved the movie! My review is HERE (http://www.bigangrytrev.com/movie-review-bumblebee/) for anyone interested :)

[CoRDS]

saw this yesterday with my 14yr old son and we both loved it.

i hated every one of those stupid bay movies, but this one was GREAT.

being able to tell who was who during a fight was awesome.
story was nice and simple as it should be for that kind of a movie, some very nice touches throughout the movie and i cant wait to see what they do next.

i really hope the do a whole cybertron based film as those parts were amazing.

[GoktimusPrime]

When we went yesterday morning there was hardly anyone in the cinema - but it was the 10.10am showing in Bathurst so prob would have been pretty dead no matter which movie it was. :rolleyes:
Times like this I envy you country folk. The cinema I watched it in had several idiots talking (and making other disruptive noises) during the movie, and the guy sitting to my left was intermittently using his phone. :rolleyes:

Seriously... if a person cannot sit quietly still for the duration of a film, then they're not old enough to go watch a movie in a cinema. We used to take our daughter to watch movies in the drive-in cinema (or just wait for the DVD release) until she was old enough to watch a movie without making a fuss (i.e. school age). The sad thing is that the people talking were school aged kids and adults (the adults were worse than the kids). Some people really need to stop treating movie theatres like their own private lounge rooms. :mad:

[BigTransformerTrev]

Times like this I envy you country folk. The cinema I watched it in had several idiots talking (and making other disruptive noises) during the movie, and the guy sitting to my left was intermittently using his phone. :rolleyes:



You wouldn’t envy the fact you have to drive over 100km to get to the nearest cinema :rolleyes:

But yeah, it’s always completely dead in there. I take the kids once or twice a year and there is never anybody, which is indeed nice. But means it’s never a real indication of how popular a flick is

[CoRDS]

i find that the best sessions to go to are the first one of the day, the idiots that ruin movies are either still asleep or not smart enough to know that the cinema is open.

[Kranix]

Only a handful of people viewing in the session I attended. Hopefully it picks up as it was a decent movie. Having said that, I wouldn't rate it as highly as some others have.

I very much enjoyed the initial scenes involving Cybertron, gave me a huge grin :D

I did however find a lot of the movie a bit slow and the story a bit laboured. Bits were good but probably too much focus on the humans still! The relationship between Bumblebee and Charlie was much better than in the original films with Sam (especially movies 2 & 3) but was a little too focussed on her life. If the budget was higher it would have improved the movie to see more of the back story with the Transformers and less of the girl and her car story but maybe that's just me.

I would love if this movie did lead into an 80s cartoon style Transformers movie free of the Bay legacy, the ending leaves this as more than possible but obviously without a certain lil red Autobot… (Was that scene a Bay addition!?). Something with a story and feel between this and the Bay Movies would be fantastic. It feels like they haven't quite hit that spot but the opportunity is there now.

[optimus1]

I saw it in an early session on Saturday -

That first couple of Minutes 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
Just wow! That opening for me completely rectified all the shortcomings of the Michael Bay-isms.

We had to suffer to get this, but I'm so relieved it was done right.

I ended up watching it with my sis, she's a closet Transformers fan as well (we are both kids of the '80s).
She was excited to see Arcee! "SHE'S NOT A BIKE!"

This movie really did have heart, hopefully a sign of the way the universe can move.

It was also PG! Can actually recommend it to parents, I know of many out there not allowing kids to watch Transformers due to the violence and other graphic, non family friendly content 😢

[GoktimusPrime]

Yup. When I show Bayformers to my daughter I have to either...
* Actively "censor" parts by muting the TV when bad words are about to come on, skipping scenes or covering her eyes.
* If it's in the cinema, covering eyes and ears at certain scenes (I always watch it first without her).

I didn't even bother showing her The Last Knight. But Bumblebee is a movie that I want to take my family to see! :D

[klystron]

I really enjoyed this, more than I thought I would given TF4 and 5). Has a bit more kid-orientated appeal (which is fine), and a semi-decent (if somewhat unoriginal) story as opposed to the previous 6. The Charlie-BBee relationship managed to get some emotional investment from the viewer, which was nice.
Yep, as others have mentioned - it had heart.
I think the best thing I can say about this movie is that my 11 yo daughter actually wanted to see it, we watched it together, and she loved it. As far as I'm concerned, that speaks volumes.
I didnt really know who Hailee was, but she did a good job and is arguably the best hoomun character so far. (Ok, maybe tied with Simmons...)
Soundtrack was awesome. Looking forward to getting a copy of that!

The toyline is a bit of a let down compared to whats in the movie. We get tons of crap for the past few movies, but no decent figs for this so far? (Maybe theres some coming - I'm not really up to date with global TF toy news...)
Mind you, this movie has made me realise that I need a VW Beetle Bumblebee in my collection now.

I rank this equal first alongside the 2007 movie which, despite its flaws, had real impact as the first live action movie (and because Blackout).

[GoktimusPrime]

Someone told me that they weren't impressed with John Cena's acting and didn't expect much from him because he's a wrestler... but surely being a wrestler makes you an actor! :D Aah, wrestling... possibly the only sport where the professionals are fake but the amateurs are authentic. :)
https://i.ibb.co/mbJz7Rs/temp.jpg
And yes, I'm aware that pro-wrestling has never claimed to be authentic wrestling; it always disclaims that it is a form of entertainment.

[GoktimusPrime]

Took my family to watch it today (obviously my second viewing). Better (but ideally) behaved audience; some minor chatting but not overtly terrible behaviour as with my first viewing. This allowed me to pay more attention to certain parts of the film, such as:
* Noticing Judd Nelson
* Noticing Arcee
* Now I know what the hell Bumblebee's mission was
* Understanding how Jack Burns changed his mind about Bumblebee
* The reason why Charlie and Bumblebee had to part ways - very reminiscent of her G1 counterpart (https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Charlene_(cowgirl))
* There's a scene where we see Memo reading a Gobots book. There are also 2 posters of the Fourth Doctor on his bedroom wall.
etc.
Most of these would be details that I would've picked up in my first viewing if certain audience members would've kindly shut the hell up and stop playing on their freakin' phones (and thus causing a distraction with the back light).
https://i.ibb.co/dbNnFTD/movieviewing2-1.jpg
Something else I noticed but not sure about - in the scene where Bumblebee stops at the cliff where Charlie meets the bullies who dare her to dive into the water, there's a small hatchback parked next to Bumblebee. I couldn't make out the make and model of that car, but admittedly I'm not a real car person. it looks to me like it could be a Mazda 323 (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Mazda_323_rear_20080220.jpg/1280px-Mazda_323_rear_20080220.jpg) or possibly even a Ford Laser (http://bestcarmag.com/sites/default/files/7259348ford-laser2.jpg). If it's a Mazda 323 then it could be an Easter Egg reference to Bumblejumper. Or I could be wrong on either count - again, I'm not a real car person... just hoping that it might be an Easter Egg. :o
https://i.ibb.co/JtNxrKk/movieviewing2-2.jpg
Other things that struck me as weird/funny:
* When Shatter and Dropkick land on Earth and wipe out the truck, neither of those rednecks bother to see if the driver's okay. The dude is solely concerned about his car and the lady is more concerned about herself.
* When the S7 guys returned to the base and wanted to enter the hangar where Bumblebee was holed up in... why did they blow up the door with explosives? Are they unable to open the door to their own base? :p :D
https://i.ibb.co/PMQmP2z/movieviewing2-3.jpg

[Dan]

I'm a bit late to the party but I only saw it on Boxing Day (traditionally for me a day of getting a few friends along to a movie). We went to the Jam Factory, there's a Cotton On there, and I got the G1 re-issue Swerve for $7:50. It's is a peculiar experience to be in a busy fashion store and walk out with a nerdy toy at 1980s prices. And then I walked into the cinema and back into the 80s...

I very much enjoyed Bumblebee. Most of what I could say has been said already, and I appreciate how thoughtful so many of the reviews here have been. However I will add a few comments...

Some of my favourite G1 episodes, like Autobop or The Killing Jar, have small casts of both robots and humans, so I felt in advance that I would like Bumblebee, and I was right. This shows that sometimes less is more, even in an effects-laden action flick.

The result of that smaller scale, however, was that its universe somehow felt bigger. In contrast, most Bay-directed movies feel overfull and yet the universe itself seems strangely small and empty. Also, the San Fransisco area and those lovely coastal vistas helped give the whole thing a sense of grandeur beyond what effects alone can offer.

I still like one Bay-directed movie - Transformers from 2007. It has a few things that Bumblebee lacks. One is a sense of mystery - the alien robots are slowly revealed to us as the movie progresses.

Another is the sheer thrill of seeing live-action transformation for the first time. Of course that virtue would always go to the movie that was made first (in some ways I wish that the first ever transformation sequence I had seen in my life was the one of Bumblebee in the garage and I particularly love how it references the tendency of Transformers to have faces staring at the ground in alt-mode). :)

In many other ways, however, it is what Bumblebee lacks that makes it far superior to pretty much every Bay-directed movie, such as crassness, nastiness and messy editing.

I'm happy it was PG as this should be something imaginative kids are allowed to see by conscientious parents. To err on the side of caution, I would even substitute liquefying guns for the classic glowing disintegration ray effect, for the sake of the squeamish. Those two Decepticons would still have been menacing without grossness.

The heroes were great. Bee was heart-tuggingly pathetic at times but we understood why - this creature was traumatized and utterly lost. This made his lack of voice poignant rather than just cute.

Charlie was a sympathetic character but also a very useful one. Her contribution to the final battle shows how a small and overlooked ally can be vital to victory.

I left the Jam Factory feeling satisfied and even moved, as did my non-fan friends. Bumblebee is my favourite of this movie series to date.

[GoktimusPrime]

Comparing designs between G1, Bayformers and Bumblebee.
https://i.ibb.co/wyX1nTR/comparingdesigns.jpg

[Dan]

Comparing designs between G1, Bayformers and Bumblebee...

Thanks for those images.

I notice that all the Bumblebee movie characters share with the Bayformers a more detailed look, with some exposed mechanics, but that is to some extent what happens whenever more time and effort is put into the look of Transformers.

I noticed the other day, looking at the Transformers The Movie (1986) scene of Starscream's coronation, how much extra texture and hints of underlying anatomy Starscream has, just because they invested more into some scenes of the movie than in the cartoon.

Otherwise, the classic characters in Bumblebee owe much more to the cartoon than to what has come since, with the exception on Bee himself.

Bumblebee maintains the chest-bonnet transformation scheme of his future self, and that characteristic face, but he's been cleverly altered to more clearly evoke his G1 self. One thing I really like is his battle mask, which is rather insectoid, but also reminiscent of the mean G1 toy face. :)

An interesting question is which aesthetic Shatter and Dropkick belong to. They reminded me a bit of Age Of Extinction Lockdown, with a very human form. However, Lockdown gave me the 'uncanny valley' creeps, while these new Cons do not.

[jazzcomp]

Soooo... do people think it is really Optimus driving across the Golden Gate bridge at the end, or am I the only thinking it was just a visual easter egg for the fans... as Bumblebee just drove past him, and Optimus didn't appear to be on Earth until after that scene.

Actually... I think it would have been better to see the VW Bumblebee driving past that sort of truck just before he changed to a Camaro, to really be a really nice nod to Gen1.
Loved it. It definitely looked like G1 prime :)

The song "The Touch" is so nice to be inserted. :cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

Otherwise, the classic characters in Bumblebee owe much more to the cartoon than to what has come since, with the exception on Bee himself.

Bumblebee maintains the chest-bonnet transformation scheme of his future self, and that characteristic face, but he's been cleverly altered to more clearly evoke his G1 self.
Actually, the bonnet chest thing did happen in the 1980s due to some artists being more creatively liberal and not sticking to the prescribed design as closely as others. :) I used to have a colouring in activity book that I got in 1985 that had this image on it:
https://i.ibb.co/qpzvcDz/g1bonnetchest.jpg


One thing I really like is his battle mask, which is rather insectoid, but also reminiscent of the mean G1 toy face. :)
Also something that was inspired by G1, as in evoking the original G1 toy. This was something that Dreamwave Productions first did, to explain why their Bumblebee had both the toy-accurate and showlike G1 faces. Michael Bay then emulated this in the live action movies and of course Knight has followed suit. But its an homage to Bumblebee's original G1/Microchange face. :)
https://i.ibb.co/dBk3c2V/temp.jpg
Bumblebee's battle mask has always been a throwback to the G1 toy, but Travis Knight's Bumblebee mask is the most G1 accurate looking one in the movie continuity thus far. It's almost as if Bumblebee is a Transformers movie made by a fan for the fans. ;)
https://i.ibb.co/WcMYJdP/temp.jpg

[Lord_Zed]

Someone told me that they weren't impressed with John Cena's acting and didn't expect much from him because he's a wrestler... but surely being a wrestler makes you an actor! :D Aah, wrestling... possibly the only sport where the professionals are fake but the amateurs are authentic. :)


Sure, but doesn't make him a good actor.

I found John Cena's acting pretty damn cheesy myself, though there's a lot of cheesy bits in the movie, so it wasn't a deal breaker. Also he is quite charismatic, although never quite that threatening as the human antagonist.

[GoktimusPrime]

John Cena's acting is incredibly cheesy, but I think it's deliberate as it gives the film an extra layer of 80s cheese. So many macho tough dudes in 80s action movies were over the top and cheesy. :) Either way I don't think his character holds back the movie... it wasn't as if Cena's character spent an entire scene explaining some creepy Romeo & Juliet law to the audience <shudder>
https://i.ibb.co/Mnc0P22/meme-cheesy.jpg

And I still find Charlie to be quite a refreshingly interesting human lead character. One interesting thing is that she's not some cosmically pre-ordained destiny's child. Her grandfather didn't discover Megatron. Her family isn't linked to a secret order. She wasn't destined to find a magical MacGuffin. She's isn't the last knight and Memo isn't the last living descendant of a wizard. She's just an ordinary kid who has incidentally become friends with Bumblebee.

Another cool thing is that she's under no real obligation to help Bumblebee or be with him. Sam was obligated because of his grandfather and his glasses. Cade became obligated because his family became targeted and they soon became fugitives from Cemetery Wind - then it turns out that he was a pre-ordained knight of Cybertron. Right. The one big difference with Charlie was that she did not have to help Bumblebee, and there were many opportunities for her to walk away. She could have kicked him out of her home. She could have reported him to the feds. When Sector 7 captured Bumblebee and safely brought her home, she could've just stayed home. She had to go out of her way to sneak out of home and go and save Bumblebee. When she freed Bumblebee she didn't have to follow him when he went after the Decepticons - Bumblebee didn't even want to bring her along but she insisted because Earth was also in danger. When they arrived, Bumblebee put her in a skip bin to keep her safe, and she could've stayed there. Even after the bin was blown up and she was thrown out, she could've run off for safety. But she chose to run into danger in order to climb the tower and disable the Decepticons' transmitter. There were so many moments where she could've just gone home, but she didn't. She reminds me of characters like Superman or Wonder Woman... characters who just want to help because it's the right thing to do. Acting out of altruism. It's different from characters like Iron Man, Spider-Man, Batman etc. who fight evil because they feel some sense of personal obligation; e.g. Stark Industries created weapons which were used against good people, thus Tony Stark feels directly responsible for fighting the evil that he's created.

Another difference between their relationship is that Charlie treats Bumblebee as a friend, not a pet or an accessory. She doesn't sit on his bonnet and make out with Memo. Just compare the reaction of Sam after Bumblebee blew up part of the Witwicky home and front yard. Bumblebee was essentially told to shut the hell up and get back into the garage right now -- you bad boy! When Bumblebee trashed the Watsons' home, Charlie was initially angry but she then said that it was her own fault because she should never have left him home alone. She came to empathise with Bumblebee in order to understand why he did what he did rather than just berating and banishing him. It is such a different character dynamic.

[Dan]

Actually, the bonnet chest thing did happen in the 1980s due to some artists being more creatively liberal and not sticking to the prescribed design as closely as others. :) I used to have a colouring in activity book that I got in 1985 that had this image on it:
https://i.ibb.co/qpzvcDz/g1bonnetchest.jpg

Reminds me a bit of Bugbite from Machine Men. A lot of those supporting media were wonky.


Bumblebee's battle mask has always been a throwback to the G1 toy, but Travis Knight's Bumblebee mask is the most G1 accurate looking one in the movie continuity thus far.

And even without knowing the original toy, the current mask looks the best, and I think it will resonate with the whole ‘bee’ motif for a lot of casual viewers. Even the hexagonal pattern of his optics, a common design in SF, is reminiscent of a honeycomb. :cool:


She's isn't the last knight and Memo isn't the last living descendant of a wizard. She's just an ordinary kid who has incidentally become friends with Bumblebee.

You're reminding me of things that annoyed me in The Last Knight. I was never going to be a big fan, but I still noticed some lost opportunities that would have made that movie better. Surely, the English woman, supposedly an hereditary wizard, could have been more of a tech-facilitated spell-caster towards the end, but was kinda useless. Likewise, the scrappy girl who was close to Squeaks, who turns into a damned scooter, could have ridden that scooter as part of some crucial action scene.

Oh well, things are better now. :)

[TaZZerath]

I finally saw it for my birthday. I was not disappointed.

Movies which make me feel like this one did stay with me a long while after I’ve seen them. For me this is the best in the franchise by leagues and bounds. The small cast allowed for good plot movement and character development and the run time didn’t allow for any boring spots.

Thank you Travis Knight. You are truly the hero the fandom deserves.

I’m on Christmas holidays or I’d find the time to write more.

[Autocon]

I watched it and enjoyed it. Tie for 1st with 2007 movie. Slowed down in parts. Not quite sure how bb survived and shatter didnt. Or how chains blew up dropkick. They corrupted the continuity but if its a reboot..

6/10

[GoktimusPrime]

Not quite sure how Bumblebee survived and shatter didnt. Or how chains blew up dropkick.
6/10
Shatter fought Bumblebee at the end, and Bumblebee survived because he dropped beneath the ship's stern and sank to the bottom, thus avoiding being slammed by the ship. Charlie then dived after him.

They corrupted the continuity but if its a reboot..
Kinda hard to argue maintaining continuity with Bayformers when it hardly maintains continuity with itself.

e.g. showing the Autobots arriving on Earth in 1987 instead of 2007... okay, but remember that Bumblebee fought in World War II ... and Optimus Prime and the other Autobots fought alongside the Order of the Witwiccans throughout centuries of human history, only to "first arrive" in 2007. :confused: Not to mention that the Autobots in historical images are seen with 21st century vehicle kibble! Like the photo of Hot Rod taken in 1901 with Lamborghini Centenario parts. Despite the fact that he was a Citroen before scanning the Lambo in 2017. Hound is seen in an image from 1883 with vehicle parts from an Oshkosh Defence FMTV truck. There's a painting from 1562 showing Megatron in his TLK form and DOTM Shockwave together! :eek: :confused: There's a picture of Ironhide with his Topkick parts towing a tall sail ship, another one of Optimus Prime with his Peterbilt kibble fighting some musket era war (well, he's just standing there) etc etc.
https://i.ibb.co/cC4KmBD/shortpacked-dotm.png
Suffice to say that the Bayformer films have a LOT of continuity issues among themselves, as well as between each other. Bumblebee's not without errors or anomalies, but they're all honestly pretty minor stuff. One error that TFwiki has nitpicked is:
"Charlie starts playing the first track on Sam Cooke's album Sam's Songs, which ought to have been "Little Things You Do" rather than "Unchained Melody". The latter song doesn't even appear on the album, being the last track on side A of Cooke's earlier release Hits of the 50's."
That's it. Feel free to check the tfwiki pages on the other Bayformer films and read the long list of errors for each of those films.

[Defcon]

Bumblebee was a good, but not great movie for me. But my partner thought it was boring and not enough action. I agree, but maybe we don't exactly fit the target audience. There is a lot of potential going forward into future movies.

Things I liked,
- References to the eighties
- The G1 transformers Cybertron scenes were great, would like to see more of these in future movies.
- The first encounter scene was awesome.
- Characterization for main human character Charlie, was spot on. Other
human characters didn't bother me to much. John Cena's character balances this movie out with another perspective.
- Transformers villains were well done, and also have great characterization.
Decepticons actually been deceptive. well done.

I thought the marketing for this movie was to focused. It allows for a coherent story but it didn't really pull me in. I guess Bumblebee is the transformers mascot! The teenager and car story line, I was not sold on the idea, just seemed typically boring. But the trailers made it look ok and it works in the movie. The Decepticons were what sold me, and John Cena. Otherwise I was really worried this movie was going to be boring.

[Paulbot]

All of these continuity “errors” can be fixed up pretty easily if you use your imagination. This used to be part of the fun of being a fan coming up with such answers (in all sorts of sci-fi fandoms like TF, Star Wars, Star Trek etc). But these days all fans want to do is score points and prove they are smart by pointing out the errors or contradictions. Those CinemaSins videos are an example of that.

[reillyd]

When I heard about the ratings change I was worried we wouldn't see squelching of human flesh beings, but Dropkicks 'make a human exploding liquid' gun is frigging awesome

I hope there's more of it in the DVD release.

I loved Shatter, and do hope she can be revived for a future movie. Megs was ad infinitum. She's adorably psychopathic, and I want a studio series deluxe or Voyager toy of her in jet mode. I have the movie nitro series, but the articulation is pretty crap. I would have preferred the jet to the monster truck studio series.

John cena's acting deserved a blast from Dropkick

[Galvatran]

Ffs ten years after the first movie and you’re pulling out the BB is the character from Beast Wars II rubbish again? Thought you’d got over that.
Yes Yes. Let the hate flow through you.
:p

[GoktimusPrime]

When I heard about the ratings change I was worried we wouldn't see squelching of human flesh beings, but Dropkicks 'make a human exploding liquid' gun is frigging awesome
Heh, agreed. It's a funny looking yet really-horrific-when-you-think-about-it kind of weapon. ;)


I loved Shatter, and do hope she can be revived for a future movie. Megs was ad infinitum. She's adorably psychopathic, and I want a studio series deluxe or Voyager toy of her in jet mode.
I love Shatter too, but I feel that it's better than they don't bring her back. Besides, who knows? Maybe they can give us even cooler villains in the future.

But how awesome is it that we actually have likable Decepticon characters in a live action Transformers film?! More likable than most Autobots in Bayformers! I cared more about Shatter's demise than I did about Quejack in DOTM.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Bumblebee's fist pump is obviously in reference to The Breakfast Club which, of course, starred Judd Nelson. But one interesting thing that my daughter mentioned to me yesterday, as a person with no knowledge of The Breakfast Club but who has seen TFTM... she thinks that Bumblebee's fist pump is a reference to this:
https://i.ibb.co/rQFBf52/meme-tillallareone.jpg

[Ralph Wiggum]

Just saw the movie, had some time to kill in Singapore before my flight so decided to see it.

Pretty much shits all over the Michael Bay movies, which admittedly isn’t that hard. No ridiculous slow-mos or zoomy camera action. A focus on character and story. And FINALLY no ridiculous cube/sunkiller/crashed spaceship/seed/knights/unicron trope.

I’d be happy for this to be a reboot, after the dogs breakfast of everything after TF2007.

On a side note, Toys R Us are still around in Singapore however the store I usually went to massively downsized to a much smaller store 1/8th its normal size.

[GoktimusPrime]

Differences between the test screening and final version of Bumblebee (http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/12/31/differences-between-the-test-screening-and-the-final-version-of-transformers-bumblebee-379903) -- seems to indicate that Bumblebee was intended to be a more definitive prequel for Bayformers but was later changed to be a reboot. These tend to be decisions from the studio rather than the director, but it does explain why the continuity is rather ambiguous, as well as Jack Burn's hatred towards Bumblebee. The final cut still explains it as him being nearly killed during the training exercise and seeing how dangerous Cybertronians can be, but the original version gave Burns more gravitas. But apparently the test audience didn't respond as well to a hard-core John Cena so they made him more light-hearted, and a lot of people have said that some of the funniest lines have come from Burns.

I haven't bought a special edition of a Transformers film since 2007 (I've purchased bare bone versions of the sequels), but this makes me want to get the bonus special feature DVD. Hopefully it will show some of these deleted scenes, especially the one of a G1-style Megatron frozen in ice!

P.S.
https://i.ibb.co/zZSbNWt/meme-shockwave.jpg

[gamblor916]

I was sitting in my seat before the movie started and I'd say the cinema was about half full. Five minutes before previews start a whole bunch of kids come in with 2 minders, shirts emblazoned with their child care company logos. Kids all had popcorn and sugar drinks and taking photos with their phones. I was thinking about walking out then and there. Then the lights went down, phones turned off and the movie started. There were laughs during the funny scenes, silence during the more serious parts especially the scene with Charlie and her mother. Cheering during the action scenes then clapping and cheering as credits started to roll. I have to say this was one of the more enjoyable movie going experiences.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Anyone notice how less in-your-face the product placement was for this movie? Even moreso, the lack of ridiculous pandering Chinese product placement despite it being co-produced by a Chinese studio (though of course the setting of the movie may have helped).

The more I think back to how Michael Bay et al. handled the previous movies, the more I shake my head.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, I've been watching the Bayformer repeats on TV and I'm finding really hard to sit through after having seen Bumblebee. Before Bumblebee the Bayformer movies were easier to watch, but having experienced a good live action Transformers film it's difficult to go back.

And yes, less of almost every Bayism. In fact, I don't recall any product placement, even if it were time-appropriate. Other than the vehicles they used and the TaB soft drink can, I don't recall too many other brand logos. There's less (or none) of so many Bayisms in general.

[CHILENO20]

Can anyone remember what TAB tasted like? I can't for the life of me.

Staying on the actual topic, finally saw it last night. Loved all the easter eggs and the movie itself! Truly shows that Bay fudged it up completely. Like mostly everyone else, goes right to the top as the best Transformers film along side '07. Even my partner who is admittedly not a transformers fan, got a lot of the 80's references and even the '86 film. Sure some plot holes to nit pick, like how Charlie and Memo got on to a military base so easily (don't think anyone brought that up), how Bee ended up at Hank's yard or how Charlie walked away with barely a scratch after her skip got hit with a damn missile, but these are minor compared to the overall film. And way less compared to the absolute crap of the previous 4 films. Now I will admit that I got the tickets for free thanks to an eBay promotion but I would happily pay to see it again. Travis Knight knew what he was doing, lets hope the rest of the future films come out like this.

[GoktimusPrime]

Can anyone remember what TAB tasted like? I can't for the life of me.
I do. I can still find them at some independently owned Asian stores/supermarkets. TaB still exists, it's just become a fairly obscure soft drink brand whereas it was everywhere in the 80s.


Sure some plot holes to nit pick, like how Charlie and Memo got on to a military base so easily (don't think anyone brought that up),
Heh, good point. Also, why did the Sector 7 guys need to use explosives to blow up the door to their own base? Do they not have regular access? :p


how Bee ended up at Hank's yard or how Charlie walked away with barely a scratch after her skip got hit with a damn missile, but these are minor compared to the overall film.
Bumblebee ending up at Uncle Hank's yard doesn't seem like a story issue with me. It's not explained but it's not unbelievable. We see Bumblebee scanning a VW Beetle before he passes out, so obviously some time between then and Charlie's 18th birthday Bumblebee ended up in that yard. It's the kind of scene that might be cool in a Director's Cut or something, but it's not essential to the plot.

Charlie did get scratched up, but it's not implausible. Sam, Mikaela, Leon, Simmons, Bumblebee and the Twins casually travelling from Petra Jordan to Giza Egypt within only a matter of hours and somehow bypassing the plethora of Israeli security checkpoints is downright impossible. Also have a direct line of sight to the ocean from Giza is impossible. And an abandoned aircraft yard behind the Smithsonian (which even Michael Bay admitted was bullspit). Not to mention an army of Decepticons conveniently living in the Moon that was never activated until the third movie! :eek:
"Oh no, the Autobots have taken the AllSpark and are hiding it from us in this puny human settlement, oh wait, we have an ARMY on the Moon!"
"Aw man, they're going to destroy the Star Harvester, oh wait, we have an ARMY on the Moon!"


Travis Knight knew what he was doing, lets hope the rest of the future films come out like this.
So do I, but I'm not liking our chances given how few people have bothered to watch this movie in cinemas. I've seen this movie 3 times now - once was with a free ticket, but the other two times I paid for out of my own pocket. The Bayformer sequels I've always watched with free or discount coupons. I refused to pay full (or any) price to watch those films (and still feel ripped off), but I'll gladly pay to watch Bumblebee!

[GoktimusPrime]

Tha_Phantom and I got together and recorded a video where we discussed what we thought about the Bumblebee film.
Part 1: what we loved (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2374701862558841&id=129480307081019)
Part 2: nitpicking! (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2374836939212000&id=129480307081019)

[Dan]

I saw the movie (alone) for the second time today. it allowed me to reflect on a few more things, as follows:

* I fact-checked, and all songs in the soundtrack were released in or before 1987 so it's accurate to the setting, not just another 80s-themed party playlist like other movies offer. I'm considering buying it, and it will be pretty much the only non-transforming Transformers produce I've ever bought.

* There are so many lovely little touches, like the symbolic 'objects may be closer than they appear' at the end.

* Some of the awkward family interactions are more awkward once you know they're coming.

* Screw scale. The triple-changers seem to change into really small aircraft. Then again maybe that's exactly what they do. It's not like they have to be sized to carry humans, and only have to look right at a distance. Do Decepticons give a damn about scale?

* I went this afternoon on a weekday. There was a smattering of audience including some parents with kids, a gang of mixed gender teens, and even what looked like a double date of four grandparents. There was laughing and a general good vibe in the cinema. We might not be going in droves, but we're a good cross-section and we're enjoying what we see.

[GoktimusPrime]

* Screw scale. The triple-changers seem to change into really small aircraft. Then again maybe that's exactly what they do. It's not like they have to be sized to carry humans, and only have to look right at a distance. Do Decepticons give a damn about scale?
The aircraft and vehicles seem to be in scale with other. As discussed on the Studio Series Dropkick review thread, the Huey is a rather small helicopter. But still definitely larger than a muscle car.
https://i.ibb.co/NNyQ1TW/scale-dropkick.jpg
The movie does show the aircraft being larger than the car modes, but the aircraft fold up into the cars. Yeah, it's super complex and, together with the scale issue, we can see why it's not possible to make a triple-changing SS figure. But as far as mass displacement goes - with the assumption of sub-space mass-shifting - it generally works.
https://i.ibb.co/m99yJcn/transformation-deceps.jpg
It's a lot better than the "Tetris-formers" of Age of Extinction or the outright ridiculous morphing that we see in AOE and The Last Knight. Gah! Take Optimus Prime for example. Where the hell do things go? Look at how the rear half of the truck just gets swallowed into his back! :eek: No wonder the toys have a hell of a time dealing with that part of the vehicle in robot mode, with all of them being backpackformers (especially the Leaders).
https://i.ibb.co/TMy28Gw/optimusprime-transform-aoe.jpg
And feel free to freeze-frame watch the combination transformation for Dragonstorm and Volcanicus. It's so cheap and lazy (only, ya know, with double the budget of Bumblebee).

[Magnus]

Finally got around to watching Bumblebee today.

I thought it was decent-good, but not great. I think there were two reasons for this:

The first is the blatant break in continuity. Sure, people like to take dumps on the Bay movies for a perceived lack of continuity, and there have been issues, but in reality, the continuity is NOWHERE near as bad as people make it out to be. The opening scene of Bumblebee was a big continuity break seemingly for the sake of getting those G1 designs on-screen, and it seems to change the motivation for going to Earth - Bumblebee isn't explicitly sent to look for the AllSpark (although that could easily be a secondary objective), but instead goes to Earth (a planet that Optimus now knows about instead of not knowing much if anything about it) to determine if conditions are suitable for a base of operations.

Also, the G1 designs clash with the established design aesthetic. I liked the original movieverse aesthetic because the Transformers are portrayed as complex mechanical aliens. The G1-esque designs don't look alien. Futuristic? Yes. Alien? Not really.

The opening scene therefore represents not only a storytelling but an aesthetic continuity break. If people criticise the Bay movies for a lack of continuity, they should criticise Bumblebee, too.

The second thing that seems to have tempered my enjoyment of Bumblebee is that it got hyped up a lot - because I kept reading about of the hype and people praising it, I probably expected the movie to be awesome, which it wasn't - to me, at least. I was probably expecting to get my mind blown, and I was disappointed when my mind wasn't blown. Then again, I knew going in that Bumblebee was going to be 'low-key', and that it simply couldn't compete in terms of action or spectacle.

That's not to say the movie was bad - it wasn't, at all. Although it does feel like a rehash of the first movie, and is more than a little E.T.-esque, it's still fun to watch, and it's... wholesome? Heartwarming?

One area that it benefited from was the simpler story/plot. The previous five movies were written to have a lot going on - there were lots of characters that all needed screentime, and the writers were giving complex backstory that needed exposition to give the movies more depth and possibly avoid accusations of being 'simple' or 'brainless'. As a result, the plots were surprisingly convoluted. This is why I find the statement that the previous movies 'had no plot' annoying and inaccurate - if anything, they probably had 'too much' plot. I never had problems following the plots of the previous movies, but this one was easy to follow because it was simple. It was very straightforward - there wasn't elaborate backstory that needed exposition or twists and turns in the plot.

Performances - I'm not fussy about acting, but I liked Hailee Steinfeld's performance, and she was definitely a highlight for me.

Some people have praised the more 'family-friendly' nature of Bumblebee, but it's also worth keeping in mind that Michael Bay explicitly makes his movies for teens and up, and that 'older' target audience probably helped expand his movies' appeal beyond little kids and parents into the young adult demographic and contributed to their box office success.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think Bayformers has far greater issues with continuity.

The Transformers were made by the AllSpark Cube... but wait, no... they were made by fleshy pink Creators. No, screw that, they were made by a metallic goddess. Megatron arrived on Earth in the early 20th Century and the other Transformers arrived in 2007. No wait, the Transformers arrived thousands of years ago and forced the Egyptians to build the pyramids in order to house a Solar Harvester. Thousands or millions of years ago Megatron made an alliance with the Fallen and he now needed Optimus Prime dead in order for The Fallen to rise again. Oh, and there have been Transformers living on Earth for ages as Seekers. But not for long! It also turns out that thousands or millions of years ago, Megatron also made an alliance with Sentinel Prime who needed Optimus Prime alive in order to manipulate him to use the Matrix of Leadership to reactivate Sentinel. The Decepticons have been infiltrating human society for decades and manipulated the space programme. And there's an army of Decepticons on the Moon that for some reason everyone forgot were there before. Anyway, plan is to bring Cybertron to Earth in order to destroy it and enslave humanity to rebuild Cybertron. But not for long! It turns out that the Transformers' creators have been to Earth in the prehistoric past where they terraformed Earth in order to create Cybert--, Transformium, and make Transformers. This apparently wiped out life on Earth... even though there's still... life... on Earth. And the Decepticons can "transform" like flying Tetris blocks. And Optimus Prime was part of some ancient order of knights, some of whom became the Dinobots. But not for long! It turns out that an order of Autobot Knights (any relation to the Dinobots?) allied themselves with the Camelot. They gave a special stick to Merlin that could only be activated by a member of his bloodline. And I guess by luck every direct descendant of Merlin continued to have children and somehow they're genetically similar enough for the staff to recognise over other humans that might be just a close a genetic match (inbreeding?). And Earth is Unicron now so Cybertron's come for a grudge fight and this now starts to awaken Unicron, even though he didn't seem bothered when Cybertron was space-bridged over by Sentinel Prime. Turns out that Cade is the last knight of Cybertron, despite not being Cybertronian (screw the Dinobots!) and the girl that he likes is the direct descendant of Merlin. And for some reason which I'm sure is important to Cybertronians, the last knight must be chaste... and Cade qualifies despite being a biological father. But apparently there's a chastity reset -- I don't want to think about this any more. And yeah, the Autobots have been on Earth for a jolly long time too... sporting 21st century alt mode parts. Cos why can't Hot Rod have Lamborghini Centanario parts just after WWI? What's a Citroën?

Now I personally don't think that Bumblebee's continuity issues are nearly as bad as Bayformers... and given that continuity has been such a nightmare, I'm not sure why it even matters now.

Furthermore, two very important facts to bear in mind regarding Bumblebee's continuity.

1: Travis Knight did consult Michael Bay (and Bay did produce this film)
Knight sat down with Bay and talked to him about continuity issues regarding Bumblebee and how he should approach it. Bumblebee was made with Bay's blessing... and money. ;)

2: Studio interference
The original cut of Bumblebee that Knight had filmed was more in-continuity with Bayformers. Knight had intended for Bumblebee to be a direct prequel. However, Paramount later decided that they wanted it to be a reboot and parts of the movie were reshot or omitted. For example, the original version would have shown us a frozen Megatron inside Sector 7's Hoover Dam base. He would have looked more like G1 Megatron with a fusion cannon attached to his arm, but cosmetic differences aside it would have been a direct visual link with the 2007 movie. Jack Burns (Cena) was also a darker and more serious character, but Paramount wanted more comedy so reshots were done. Initially Bumblebee accidentally killed one (some?) of Burns' comrades. This is why Burns seems so hostile and fearful towards Bumblebee in some parts of the film, like when he says that he's seen what the Transformers are capable of. Initially this meant that he's seen them kill people before, but in the final cut it comes across as meaning that he's seen people, including himself, get hurt.

So yeah, Knight's original vision was actually to have a Bumblebee movie that was closer to Bayformers, and this was done in consultation with Bay. But Paramount decided to take it in a different direction. But at the end of the day we still have a movie with a heart. A movie that's a proper story, and that is what film is - a story-telling medium.


but it's also worth keeping in mind that Michael Bay explicitly makes his movies for teens and up,
:confused: What kind of teens was he targeting?!? :eek:

J.R.R. Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings for adolescents (The Hobbit was written for children). None of those stories relied on cheap parlour tricks to engage the audience. They instead engaged the audience by actually have engaging stories motivated by character development! And I've taught The Hobbit as a junior text in a unit of work about the Hero's (Bilbo's) Journey. Bumblebee works in a similar way. Both Bilbo and Bumblebee go on a fairly simple and straightforward character arc. Frodo's arc is more complicated, but that's because LOTR was written for teens; if the next TF standalone film can step up from Bilbo level characterisation to Frodo level characterisation then I think we'd be in for a real treat. And especially if the next TF film is focusing on Optimus Prime, as Frodo's journey (as well as the other 3 Hobbits) is one of going from being civilians to battle hardened veterans - and in Frodo's case, irreparable PTSD (which is why Gandalf and the Elves take Frodo, unable to readjust to civilian life, to nurse him in the Grey Havens).

[Magnus]

I think Bayformers has far greater issues with continuity.

The Transformers were made by the AllSpark Cube... but wait, no... they were made by fleshy pink Creators. No, screw that, they were made by a metallic goddess. Megatron arrived on Earth in the early 20th Century and the other Transformers arrived in 2007. No wait, the Transformers arrived thousands of years ago and forced the Egyptians to build the pyramids in order to house a Solar Harvester. Thousands or millions of years ago Megatron made an alliance with the Fallen and he now needed Optimus Prime dead in order for The Fallen to rise again. Oh, and there have been Transformers living on Earth for ages as Seekers. But not for long! It also turns out that thousands or millions of years ago, Megatron also made an alliance with Sentinel Prime who needed Optimus Prime alive in order to manipulate him to use the Matrix of Leadership to reactivate Sentinel. The Decepticons have been infiltrating human society for decades and manipulated the space programme. And there's an army of Decepticons on the Moon that for some reason everyone forgot were there before. Anyway, plan is to bring Cybertron to Earth in order to destroy it and enslave humanity to rebuild Cybertron. But not for long! It turns out that the Transformers' creators have been to Earth in the prehistoric past where they terraformed Earth in order to create Cybert--, Transformium, and make Transformers. This apparently wiped out life on Earth... even though there's still... life... on Earth. And the Decepticons can "transform" like flying Tetris blocks. And Optimus Prime was part of some ancient order of knights, some of whom became the Dinobots. But not for long! It turns out that an order of Autobot Knights (any relation to the Dinobots?) allied themselves with the Camelot. They gave a special stick to Merlin that could only be activated by a member of his bloodline. And I guess by luck every direct descendant of Merlin continued to have children and somehow they're genetically similar enough for the staff to recognise over other humans that might be just a close a genetic match (inbreeding?). And Earth is Unicron now so Cybertron's come for a grudge fight and this now starts to awaken Unicron, even though he didn't seem bothered when Cybertron was space-bridged over by Sentinel Prime. Turns out that Cade is the last knight of Cybertron, despite not being Cybertronian (screw the Dinobots!) and the girl that he likes is the direct descendant of Merlin. And for some reason which I'm sure is important to Cybertronians, the last knight must be chaste... and Cade qualifies despite being a biological father. But apparently there's a chastity reset -- I don't want to think about this any more. And yeah, the Autobots have been on Earth for a jolly long time too... sporting 21st century alt mode parts. Cos why can't Hot Rod have Lamborghini Centanario parts just after WWI? What's a Citroën?

Ok, I'll bite. It's interesting that you deliberately presented everything in the most obfuscating manner possible by creating a single seemingly unorganised mass of text.


The Transformers were made by the AllSpark Cube... but wait, no... they were made by fleshy pink Creators.

Where's the contradiction here? The presence of the Creators in no way contradicts the idea of the AllSpark. The AllSpark had to have been created by somebody, and the AllSpark doesn't just randomly generate 'bots by itself - its power needs to be directed or activated by somebody. Why not these Creators?


No, screw that, they were made by a metallic goddess.

Fair point. Still, Quintessa is implied to have been influential on early Cybertron.

Then again, the Guardian Knights called her 'the great deceiver', so take what she says with a train of salt.


Megatron arrived on Earth in the early 20th Century and the other Transformers arrived in 2007. No wait, the Transformers arrived thousands of years ago and forced the Egyptians to build the pyramids in order to house a Solar Harvester.

Again, where's the contradiction? Transformers arriving in the first movie doesn't contradict or preclude the idea of older ones arriving on Earth before.


Thousands or millions of years ago Megatron made an alliance with the Fallen and he now needed Optimus Prime dead in order for The Fallen to rise again. Oh, and there have been Transformers living on Earth for ages as Seekers. But not for long! It also turns out that thousands or millions of years ago, Megatron also made an alliance with Sentinel Prime who needed Optimus Prime alive in order to manipulate him to use the Matrix of Leadership to reactivate Sentinel. The Decepticons have been infiltrating human society for decades and manipulated the space programme. And there's an army of Decepticons on the Moon that for some reason everyone forgot were there before. Anyway, plan is to bring Cybertron to Earth in order to destroy it and enslave humanity to rebuild Cybertron. But not for long!

Ok, fine. It gets a bit confusing here, but it can be sorted out:

1. Megatron starts a war for control of the AllSpark, apparently with the Fallen hovering in the background.

2. Sentinel Prime negotiates an end to the war with Megatron, possibly promising to deliver his Space Bridge technology.

3. Sentinel Prime is lost to space. No more Sentinel.

4. Megatron continues the war, and the AllSpark is lost.

5. Megatron flies after the AllSpark.

6. Megatron lands on Earth.

7. The Ark lands on the Moon.

8. The Ark is found by Decepticons, possibly while looking for Megatron and the AllSpark. Soundwave and Laserbeak move on to Earth, while other Decepticons stockpile Space Bridge pillars and wait for the next move.

9. The 2007 movie happens. The AllSpark is lost.

10. Revenge of the Fallen happens. Megatron returns to the Fallen without the AllSpark, but fortunately there's a new plan: that planet he was on happens to have an old Harvester on it. They can use that to make Energon and use that to rebuild Cybertron, and kill the last known Prime while they're at it.

11. The Harvester is destroyed, and the Fallen is killed.

12. Megatron learns that Sentinel Prime is on the moon. He knows that Optimus now has the Matrix, so he comes up with a new plan: engineer the Autobots' discovery of the Ark so Optimus can revive Sentinel Prime. Since Sentinel is in league with Megatron, they can come up with something once Sentinel is reactivated.

13. Dark of the Moon happens. Sentinel and Megatron get back in contact and come up with a new plan: since this planet they're on happens to have a large population of intelligent creatures on it, use those Space Bridge pillars to bring Cybertron to Earth and get them to do a lot of the work of rebuilding.

There you go. No contradictions. Continuity is preserved.


It turns out that the Transformers' creators have been to Earth in the prehistoric past where they terraformed Earth in order to create Cybert--, Transformium, and make Transformers. This apparently wiped out life on Earth... even though there's still... life... on Earth.

Again, where's the contradiction here? I already stated that the idea of the creators doesn't preclude the AllSpark. It is well known that the dinosaur extinction didn't wipe out all life on Earth.


And the Decepticons can "transform" like flying Tetris blocks. And Optimus Prime was part of some ancient order of knights, some of whom became the Dinobots. But not for long!

Again, where's the contradiction here? Nothing we've seen so far precludes the idea of the 'knights'.


It turns out that an order of Autobot Knights (any relation to the Dinobots?) allied themselves with the Camelot. They gave a special stick to Merlin that could only be activated by a member of his bloodline. And I guess by luck every direct descendant of Merlin continued to have children and somehow they're genetically similar enough for the staff to recognise over other humans that might be just a close a genetic match (inbreeding?).

Again, where's the contradiction to previous movies here?


And Earth is Unicron now so Cybertron's come for a grudge fight and this now starts to awaken Unicron, even though he didn't seem bothered when Cybertron was space-bridged over by Sentinel Prime.

Ok, fair point. Clearly Unicron has been dormant and slept through a lot of stuff. If he can stay dormant through meteor strikes, earthquakes, and aliens terraforming part of his surface, then he can sleep through anything. Then again, one wonders if the extra gravity from a body as large as Cybertron so close to him might be enough to wake him up, but we never got to find out.


Turns out that Cade is the last knight of Cybertron, despite not being Cybertronian (screw the Dinobots!) and the girl that he likes is the direct descendant of Merlin. And for some reason which I'm sure is important to Cybertronians, the last knight must be chaste... and Cade qualifies despite being a biological father. But apparently there's a chastity reset -- I don't want to think about this any more.

Cade was 'chosen' because the knight gave him the talisman. Odds are anybody who it was given to would have been 'chosen'.

Chastity was one of the traditional qualities of a knight - who said it was a Cybertronian requirement? Granted, it's been a while since I've seen The Last Knight.


And yeah, the Autobots have been on Earth for a jolly long time too... sporting 21st century alt mode parts.

The idea of Transformers being on Earth isn't contradictory, but the art department made a mistake by making the 'historical images' those of modern Transformers. Point conceded.



Like I said, nowhere near as bad as some people think.




Furthermore, two very important facts to bear in mind regarding Bumblebee's continuity.

1: Travis Knight did consult Michael Bay (and Bay did produce this film) Knight sat down with Bay and talked to him about continuity issues regarding Bumblebee and how he should approach it. Bumblebee was made with Bay's blessing... and money. ;)

So, wait... it's not just up to the director? There are other people involved in the decision-making process? What about 'the director has final say' as you've stated before when blaming Bay for the previous movies' faults?


2: Studio interference
The original cut of Bumblebee that Knight had filmed was more in-continuity with Bayformers. Knight had intended for Bumblebee to be a direct prequel.

Yet Knight made a point to break aesthetic continuity by including G1 designs. We know he did this because he said it was his decision.


But at the end of the day we still have a movie with a heart. A movie that's a proper story, and that is what film is - a story-telling medium.

I think the previous movies have actual stories and 'heart' as well - at their core, they're about ordinary people trying to make their way through life when they're caught up in an interstellar war - like in Bumblebee. You're meant to connect with and feel for the protagonists of the previous movies as well.

For that matter, what is 'heart', anyway? The idea that movies have 'heart' or 'soul' is something of an issue - often movies are criticised for not having it - yet these things are very much subjective and don't even have an 'agreed' definition.

[Paulbot]

Nicely put Magnus.

I think there’s only one potential continuity issue with the latest movie tying in to the others, but it’s one that can be easily solved with two words in the real world, a few lines of dialogue at most in a sequel, and is supported on screen in TLK. At least I think it is, I want to rewatch that film before I elaborate further.

[Magnus]

Nicely put Magnus.

I think there’s only one potential continuity issue with the latest movie tying in to the others, but it’s one that can be easily solved with two words in the real world, a few lines of dialogue at most in a sequel, and is supported on screen in TLK. At least I think it is, I want to rewatch that film before I elaborate further.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Which issue did you have in mind?

Sure, the continuity issue is something I put some effort into defending, and I kind of feel a little silly about it now that I've typed that defence out and potentially veered the thread off-topic. I'll admit, I've let the issue of continuity get to my head since I've decided to take a position to defend it, and I did admit that the aesthetic break in the beginning soured my experience with Bumblebee more than a bit.

Back to Bumblebee, since I thought that the simpler story was to the movie's benefit, I've now been wondering if perhaps future movies could take note of the simpler story in Christina Hodson's script and not worry too much about lore-building. Either that, or have somebody whose specific role is to fact-check things. Sure, the back-story each movies tries to introduce adds depth, but it also adds complexity.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ok, I'll bite. It's interesting that you deliberately presented everything in the most obfuscating manner possible by creating a single seemingly unorganised mass of text.
I was channelling Bob Hale from Horrible Histories. :p
"But not for long!"


Where's the contradiction here?
See, now you could apply this for much of the continuity issues with Bumblebee.

* Bumblebee arriving in 1987 and not WWII.
Who's to say that this was Bumblebee's first arrival on Earth? He could have arrived in WWII then left the planet, then arrived back again in 1987. The prequel comics show him being active in the 1960s.

* Sector 7's "first contact" with non-biological entities
Not all S7 agents may be privy to everything. Even Simmons previously said that he had to go searching within S7 archives to find out about stuff like the Seekers, which ended up with him being labelled as obsessed by his colleagues. But less obsessive guys like Powell and grunts like Burns certainly wouldn't be aware of stuff like NBE-1, the Seekers, the historical Autobot alliance etc. It's not unheard of for one hand of a government branch to not talk to the other (it certainly happens IRL enough times).

* Bumblebee and other Autobots arriving on Earth in 1987
Again, who's to say that they're going to stay there? Something may happen that makes Optimus Prime and the others leave Earth, then return again in 2007. Perhaps Bumblebee is the only one nominated to stay behind.

Are my excuses really lame and clutching at straws? Absolutely! But so were yours. :p What I'm saying is that the Michael Bay TF movies already established a pretty dodgy continuity base that it's not surprising that Bumblebee would have challenges in finding its place. Quite frankly, if the Bay Movies don't care enough to maintain a good, solid continuity that audiences can follow without having to invent excuses, then why should Bumblebee?


11. The Harvester is destroyed, and the Fallen is killed.

12. Megatron learns that Sentinel Prime is on the moon. He knows that Optimus now has the Matrix, so he comes up with a new plan: engineer the Autobots' discovery of the Ark so Optimus can revive Sentinel Prime. Since Sentinel is in league with Megatron, they can come up with something once Sentinel is reactivated.

13. Dark of the Moon happens. Sentinel and Megatron get back in contact and come up with a new plan: since this planet they're on happens to have a large population of intelligent creatures on it, use those Space Bridge pillars to bring Cybertron to Earth and get them to do a lot of the work of rebuilding.
:confused: Megatron knew that Sentinel Prime was on the Moon for a long, long, long time. Remember that the whole space race and Apollo 11 mission was something that the Decepticons had been seeding with secret alliances like with Dylan Gould's family. The Chernobyl disaster in 1986 was due to a component from the Ark's engine that was housed there. So the Decepticons had been planning this, as per Megatron's instructions before he left Cybertron, since at least the 1960s.

Plan A (The Fallen) and Plan B (Sentinel Prime) are at complete odds with each other. If Megatron had successfully killed Optimus Prime, but let's say that his plan is otherwise thwarted... like maybe someone else stops the Fallen (he apparently cannot be killed by anyone other than a Prime, but let's say someone is able to imprison him or something), or maybe someone succeeds in destroying the Star Harvester before it can destroy the Sun. Let's say something happens that makes the plan fail but the Matrix of Leadership is never found, and sure, Optimus Prime remains dead. Plan B is screwed. All those centuries and decades of meticulous planning. The entire reason for directing humans into the space race and sending lunar missions. Wasted. No Matrix = no Sentinel Prime = no Space Bridge. What then?
https://i.ibb.co/MkTk3T6/shortpacked-dotm.png
See... tactically and logically this makes no sense. Your Plan B cannot contradict Plan A. That's not how contingency plans work.


Again, where's the contradiction here? I already stated that the idea of the creators doesn't preclude the AllSpark. It is well known that the dinosaur extinction didn't wipe out all life on Earth.
It was never stated that the Creators wiped out the dinosaurs. It was stated that they wiped out all life on Earth before. So... what are modern organisms descendant from?


Cade was 'chosen' because the knight gave him the talisman. Odds are anybody who it was given to would have been 'chosen'.
LOL :D There would be so many parallel universe alternatives of this scenario with hilarious results. :D


Chastity was one of the traditional qualities of a knight - who said it was a Cybertronian requirement?
Maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly, but I thought that Cade was chosen by the Talisman and also able to make it interact with the Round Table (which proved to be of at least partial Cybertronian make) because he exhibited the qualities of a knight, including chastity. Again, not sure why the Cybertronians would care about this. Also not sure why the knights of Camelot would care about this either. Religious vows such as chastity, poverty and obedience were something that was typically restricted to Militaris Ordinis (monastic knights such as the Knights Templar, the Knights Hospitailer, Teutonic Knights etc.). It made little sense for other knights, as a class of nobility, to practise chastity and poverty. Who would inherit their titles and lands? Owning huge... tracts of land! :D ;)
https://i.ibb.co/wNj9ZqD/temp.gif


Like I said, nowhere near as bad as some people think.
The Fallen/Sentinel Plan A/Plan B thing is the worst culprit for me, but yeah, much of the other ones are more minor. But again, so are the continuity issues in Bumblebee. So you're gonna get nitpicky with one then you need to get nitpicky with all. :)


So, wait... it's not just up to the director? There are other people involved in the decision-making process? What about 'the director has final say' as you've stated before when blaming Bay for the previous movies' faults?
The director is the primary leader of a film. And in the cases of smaller independent films, s/he is the absolute authority. In bigger Hollywood blockbusters the studio can come into play... but it varies. Often studios aren't that interfering, but at other times they can be. Solo: A Star Wars Story is an example of when a studio was very interfering where the original directors were sacked, and Ron Howard was brought in to redirect and finish the film. A pretty extreme example, I'll grant you. But nonetheless, as the director it is Ron Howard who cops any praise or blame for the performance of Solo. He's the captain of the ship - the figurehead. That's the burden of leadership.

It's not too different from how say political leaders cop praise or blame for something that may not necessarily be something that they did (e.g. global economic factors beyond their control). For example, one problem with ROTF was the writers strike. That's not something that was Michael Bay's fault, but it didn't do the film any favours and Bay had to work with that. In July 2010, Michael Bay said, "I'll take some of the criticism. It was very hard to put (the sequel) together that quickly after the writers' strike." - so while Bay adamantly pointed out that the film was let down by the strike, he did also cop it on the chin as the director.

And before we become too critical of studios interfering with directors, it could be argued that it's sometimes a good thing. Take Star Wars for example. 20th Century Fox were far more interfering with the creation of A New Hope and other people were generally more willing to be critical towards Lucas' ideas. Luke Starkiller... Revenge of the Jedi... Yoda being played by a monkey?! I think one problem that Lucas had when filming the Prequels was that he had become venerated as a godlike director. Here's the man who created Star Wars! In the 70s and 80s there were people who shot down some of Lucas' ideas, but by the 90s he'd become such a legendary figure that everyone was starstruck and probably thought that everything he thought of was a great idea. Jar Jar Binks? That sounds awesome! Now to Lucas' credit he did appear to realise that this was happening after The Phantom Menace, and we know that he had more assistance in co-directing Eps 2 and 3 and he was also more self-critical (e.g. Jar Jar Binks has a lesser but more important role in Ep 2, and in Ep 3 he only makes a brief voiceless cameo). If the studio wasn't willing to run interference then Lucas realised that he would have to run interference with or for himself.



Yet Knight made a point to break aesthetic continuity by including G1 designs. We know he did this because he said it was his decision.
That's a fair point. I think that Bumblebee has definitely made a visual reboot. Robots In Disguise did a similar thing as a sequel to TF Prime -- there was a change in design aesthetics, even in flashbacks and other characters appearing in the RID with the new design (e.g. Bulkhead, Ratchet etc.). And IDW did that a lot at one stage... especially when they were switching between Don Figueroa's hybrid Bayformers-G1 designs with the other artists' G1 designs. It kept on switching back and forth which I found weird. But yes, that was definitely Knight's intention, especially with the unmade/cut(?) scene showing a G1-style Megatron frozen in ice.


For that matter, what is 'heart', anyway? The idea that movies have 'heart' or 'soul' is something of an issue - often movies are criticised for not having it - yet these things are very much subjective and don't even have an 'agreed' definition.
I felt that Bumblebee elicited a far greater level of audience empathy and emotional investment than the Bay movies. I found myself being far more emotionally moved by these characters. I also found them to be more likable and memorable, even the Decepticons.

If you want a more objective measure, let's look at character development. This is linked with the Hero's Journey and how much the character has changed by the end of the story vs the beginning of the story. Bumblebee, from the 2007 film to the Last Knight, never changes as a character. He's stagnant. Many of the human protagonists don't seem to make many great changes... rather they just complete a set of tasks like a computer game character. Unlocking achievements isn't character development.

In Bumblebee our characters go on a shared journey of rediscovering lost identities. Charlie was a broken girl at the start of the film. Her world was devastated when she lost her father and her best mate. Her pain was unbearable and she found living to be increasingly difficult, taking an emotional toll on herself and her family. Her adventure with Bumblebee helped her to reconcile her feelings of grief. She started off using her automotive skills to repair Bumblebee - skills that her father had taught her. It was part of his legacy (which she previously felt was being lost because she couldn't finish fixing the Corvette). She even tried to sever some of her ties with her father when she attempted to get rid of her diving trophies and she also got angry when Bumblebee watched the diving video. But this would also come full circle when she ended up diving to rescue Bumblebee from the bottom of the canal. So there's this almost emotionally connective chain between Mr Watson, Charlie and Bumblebee. For me, the emotional climax of the story was when Charlie and Bumblebee embraced for the last time. They had helped each other to find themselves after being lost in darkness.

Sam's character arc in the 2007 movie was basically boy gets girl and is friends with the Autobots. Again, these are achievement unlocks rather than character developments. The Bayformer movies had more caricatures rather than fleshed out 3 dimensional characters. And to be fair, the G1 cartoon is also mostly populated by caricatures rather than characters. The first Michael Bay TF film was pretty faithful to the core spirit of the G1 cartoon (unlike say the G1 comics, Beast Wars or the IDW comics which actually go into greater depth with their characters).

Now I'm not saying that Bumblebee's character development is the bee's knees (no pun intended). As I said, it's probably more like the character development in The Hobbit or Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone. Relatively straightforward and basic - something that kids can understand easily enough. But this isn't a bad thing either. E.T. has a similar level of character development. :) As I said before, books like The Lord of the Rings are stories that are aimed at an older adolescent audience, and thus have considerably greater depth in their character development.

[BigTransformerTrev]

1. Megatron starts a war for control of the AllSpark, apparently with the Fallen hovering in the background.

2. Sentinel Prime negotiates an end to the war with Megatron, possibly promising to deliver his Space Bridge technology.

3. Sentinel Prime is lost to space. No more Sentinel.

4. Megatron continues the war, and the AllSpark is lost.

5. Megatron flies after the AllSpark.

6. Megatron lands on Earth.

7. The Ark lands on the Moon.

8. The Ark is found by Decepticons, possibly while looking for Megatron and the AllSpark. Soundwave and Laserbeak move on to Earth, while other Decepticons stockpile Space Bridge pillars and wait for the next move.

9. The 2007 movie happens. The AllSpark is lost.

10. Revenge of the Fallen happens. Megatron returns to the Fallen without the AllSpark, but fortunately there's a new plan: that planet he was on happens to have an old Harvester on it. They can use that to make Energon and use that to rebuild Cybertron, and kill the last known Prime while they're at it.

11. The Harvester is destroyed, and the Fallen is killed.

12. Megatron learns that Sentinel Prime is on the moon. He knows that Optimus now has the Matrix, so he comes up with a new plan: engineer the Autobots' discovery of the Ark so Optimus can revive Sentinel Prime. Since Sentinel is in league with Megatron, they can come up with something once Sentinel is reactivated.

13. Dark of the Moon happens. Sentinel and Megatron get back in contact and come up with a new plan: since this planet they're on happens to have a large population of intelligent creatures on it, use those Space Bridge pillars to bring Cybertron to Earth and get them to do a lot of the work of rebuilding.

There you go. No contradictions. Continuity is preserved.

I like that, thats probably the most sense I've seen someone make out of the first 5 movies continuity. :)

Yeah, continuity would be great but by this time I don't really give a stuff. If the new Bee movie wants to contradict what has come before (which it has) thats fine with me. Personally I hope the powers that be give up on trying to make the new movies fit in with the old and decide to head off in a whole new direction instead.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think that Nostalgia Critic put it best in his Non-Review of The Last Knight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctembQrH_0k). You can love Bayformers to bits -- that's fine. No problem with that. The issue is that the Bayformers films had become formulaic and repetitive. One thing that irritated many movie goers was the lack of something fresh and new.

This is what Bumblebee brings to the Transformers film franchise. Something different. At least, something different for Transformers. Yes, the plot is basically the same as E.T., so I'm not pretending that it's the most original idea ever. But it is something different for Transformers. And some people may like it and maybe some people don't, but it was high time for some change. And we know that AOE and especially TLK made less money, so the studio needed to look for change in the next movie. Michael Bay basically lathered, rinsed and repeated his formula across his Transformers films - and if you love that formula, that's fine... but you've had 10 years of it. Can we have something different now? Please?

Sure, Bumblebee's not perfect, but it tries to be different. And it tries to be good. And this is the thing -- movies don't need to be perfect (there are few that can be said to be flawless), they just need to be good. The MCU is a great example of this. Their movies aren't perfect, but they are - for the most part - considered to be good, likable films that people want to watch more of. The MCU has also been running for over a decade now and people aren't sick of them! Fans are eagerly anticipating films like Avengers Endgame and Spider-Man Far From Home.

With Bayformers... if you love those films it was a case of, "Here we go again!" \(^O^)/
But if you were sick of them then it was a case of, "Here we go again..." (-_-)
And I don't want the Bumblebee formula to be repeated ad nauseum either. I do hope that the next film also tries something different.

[FruitBuyer]

Small correction, AoE did not make less. It is second only to Dark of the Moon at 1.1 billion.

[Sinnertwin]

For that matter, what is 'heart', anyway? The idea that movies have 'heart' or 'soul' is something of an issue - often movies are criticised for not having it - yet these things are very much subjective and don't even have an 'agreed' definition.

Musicians talk about something similar with the term "feel" -it's all subjective, as you've mentioned.

Chances are, if you've really enjoyed a movie & felt some level of positive emotional connection, you're more likely to say that it has heart or soul.

[Dan]

The aircraft and vehicles seem to be in scale with other...

And feel free to freeze-frame watch the combination transformation for Dragonstorm and Volcanicus. It's so cheap and lazy (only, ya know, with double the budget of Bumblebee).

Thanks for all that photo collating. I'm too lazy for most such work. :)

I agree a lot of transformations in the movies between Transformers (2007) and Bumblebee were lazy and just whatever the designers felt like. I was particularly appalled by the pixelated morphing of the fake Earth Transformers in Age Of Extinction.

As to scale - I'm happy overall with its presentation in Bumblebee. Most of it happens too fast for one to be bothered by any imperfections (and I do think they exist - pretty sure Bumblebee shrunk in robot mode a lot of the time to fit a scene).

For toys my own preference is for what I call 'scale ranking' rather than absolute scale. A plane and a car can be out of scale as long as the plane is still somewhat bigger than the car (as well as taller in robot mode). As with many other things this is a product of my G1 conditioning. :)

I wish there were two size classes within current 'deluxe' to accommodate this. I should possibly start my own post on the thorny topic of size classes...

[Thurmus]

Is the way that Bumblebee takes out Dropkick a finisher from a Mortal Combat style game or from somewhere else? I thought I had seen something like it before.

[Sinnertwin]

I feel ripped off for having paid money for this pile of cliched garbage. I only lasted about 30 minutes before throwing in the towel.

If you're having trouble sleeping, I've found your cure.

[mikeyc7m]

finally got to see it on dvd. it was really different and much better than bayverse.

the cyberton scenes may be problematic to continuity, but as an 80's child i was absolutely thrilled to see the bots done "right." screw bayverse and his twisted grey metallic blurs. we need a pink heroic arcee!

one thing i'd mention is the cliffjumper bit. my ms4 was quite sad for him, i had to reassure her it's just a story. pretty rough treatment for the poor old fella. just because he's not human does not make it any less tragic or graphic, at least in the minds of kids anyway.

but i wanted to share here that the dvd included deleted scenes and outtakes that were quite interesting. john cena was actually quite funny and the movie could have been really different if they had used some of his goofy humour. also there was more character development for charlie and her family, not sure why it was omitted, but it explained her mysterious hair cut. there was an incident with excess energon creating household robots, and there was even a discussion about gobots!

so it's worth renting or buying the dvd, just for the extra bits, even if you've seen the movie. i hope they make more like it.

[Raptormesh]

Just want to say I finally caught this movie on a flight and it's now my fav TF movie, even if I only watched it on a tiny 8" screen. Can't wait for a sequel or other movies in the same vein.