Avengers Endgame SPOILER discussion thread [Archive] - Ozformers Transformers Club of Australia (otca.com.au)

i_amtrunks

25th April 2019, 10:26 PM

I'll get the ball rolling with one question - why didn't Nebula cease to exist after she killed her past self?

Also for anyone wondering, the Japanese text in my current sig pic says, "I love you 3000." <sniff>

Because that�s not how time travel works! :p

They stated that time travel in these films that you cannot affect your past self (and cause the grandfather paradox) because your future self in the past is still your future (or present) self.

You cannot be killed by yourself until you have lived long enough to come back to the past to kill yourself...

I cannot express how excited I am for guardians three now, the �hunt for Gamora� or whatever it�ll be called. Thor better still be with them.

On a side note, I am glad that marvel put the female charge in, even if all those characters were woefully under utilised.

My question is (and I have theories about this one as well but want other opinions) how come the avengers did so well against thanos in Infinity War when he had the gauntlet but struggled so much when he came back without the gauntlet? I know they�d just survived the complex falling on them, and Thor was waaaaaay out of shape but still, they really should�ve been able to keep him on the back foot more.

I can�t wait to see this movie again, but maybe in a few weeks when I am emotionally ready, this movie is draining!

DaptoDog

25th April 2019, 10:57 PM

Because that�s not how time travel works! :p

They stated that time travel in these films that you cannot affect your past self (and cause the grandfather paradox) because your future self in the past is still your future (or present) self.

You cannot be killed by yourself until you have lived long enough to come back to the past to kill yourself...

I cannot express how excited I am for guardians three now, the �hunt for Gamora� or whatever it�ll be called. Thor better still be with them.

On a side note, I am glad that marvel put the female charge in, even if all those characters were woefully under utilised.

My question is (and I have theories about this one as well but want other opinions) how come the avengers did so well against thanos in Infinity War when he had the gauntlet but struggled so much when he came back without the gauntlet? I know they�d just survived the complex falling on them, and Thor was waaaaaay out of shape but still, they really should�ve been able to keep him on the back foot more.

I can�t wait to see this movie again, but maybe in a few weeks when I am emotionally ready, this movie is draining!

Exactly this regarding the time travel.

I actually felt like the female charge was quite forced, there were no male heroes in the vicinity of all these females? I preferred the scene in Infinity War where the three females fight Proxima Midnight, that felt more natural while still making the point.

I think you answered your own question re Thanos. Really, only Thor could match him with the Gauntlet in Infinity War, so given he was a shadow of his former self I think it was believable that they each struggled with Thanos.

I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, this time with my son. I'm hoping I will take in a few extra things.

Meister

26th April 2019, 12:11 AM

It was a different movie to what I was expecting, which isn�t a bad thing really, and although it wrapped up main character arcs in the MCU to date nicely, it leaned a bit too heavily on nostalgia. A lot of the plot seemed to centre around nostalgia. It was an enjoyable movie, but I wouldn�t rank it as the best of the MCU, which means for a sort of climactic finale, it failed in the climactic part for me.

Regardless I don�t think we will ever see something of the kind of cinematic experience the MCU achieved again. It was a great ride. The only thing I think is left to say as a movie enthusiast is Thank you for the experience and Well done.

GoktimusPrime

26th April 2019, 12:13 AM

Hhhmmm... so this means that when Further Future Steve Rogers went back in time to live with Agent Carter, the they must have been secretly married or whatever so as to not alert his existence to others, especially to Steve Rogers Prime. So, when Future Steve Rogers travelled back to 1970 and saw Carter, she was already married to Further Future Steve Rogers. And when she was "reunited" with Steve Rogers Prime... Further Future Steve Rogers was already an old man too and was probably hiding in the garage or something? :eek: Whoa!

I do like how this movie dealt with time-travel as a means of changing the future and not the past. Because otherwise it would've been another Days of Future Past, and TBH I would've been fine with that too. But seeing them deliberately avoid this trope was pretty awesome. It also means that they're not rendering the events of previous films useless or non-canon etc. - it's not that easy "reset" switch that a lot of time-travel movies do. And yeah, the fact that Gamora Prime and Black Widow were permanently gone was something I did not expect. And it was bitter sweet seeing Past Gamora arrive, especially when she met Star Lord.

I'm expecting to see more regular nerd-sized fans cosplaying as Endgame Thor! :D Who needs a six-pack when you can have a keg! ;)

Omega Metro

26th April 2019, 06:52 AM

Saw it yesterday. Not a big fan of the time travel thing. Just feels like a cop out. Was hoping for some surprise new characters to pop up like what Red Skull did in Infinity War. I feel like Black Widow should of been there in that final battle.
And when Tony snapped his fingers, why did only the baddies turn to dust?

Ralph Wiggum

26th April 2019, 10:35 AM

Saw it last night and I really enjoyed it, mostly as a fitting way to send off the phase 1 MCU characters. The actors� sign offs in the end credits was a great touch. The movie was really 3 hours of fan service, bringing back characters and actors (Robert Redford, Tilda Swinton among others) which added a special feel to the movie. That elevator scene with Captain America was absolutely sublime.

It was good to see Captain Marvel wasn�t the ace in the deck who saved the day. It really was a Avengers movie through and through. I honestly admit the �women of Marvel� scene smacked a bit of tokenism (as did my wife), but I�m not going to go �reeeeeeee feminism!� or anything. Expect some triggered people though.

I acknowledge the time travel aspect was a little difficult to swallow. Still trying to get my head around how fucking around with the past doesn�t affect the future. Or are they simply saying as long as all the stones are in the �present� then nothing changes? Eh, I�d say Back to the Future does it better.

Still, I couldn�t ask for much more from this film. There won�t be anything like a MCU for a long time. Nor should other studios try it, and those who tried unsurprisingly haven�t had the same success.

And when Tony snapped his fingers, why did only the baddies turn to dust?

Because the stones implement the will of whomever wields them.
Hence why Thanos� snap wiped out half of sentient life. He�s smart enough to know that nature tends to balance itself out over time, and that intervention is only required for the species which overpopulates without regard or control.
Hence why Banner�s snap brought back the vanished, because that is what he wanted.
Tony only snapped to stop Thanos and his army, and that is what happened.

GoktimusPrime

26th April 2019, 10:43 AM

Saw it yesterday. Not a big fan of the time travel thing. Just feels like a cop out.
I felt that it was less of a cop out than the "Days of Future Past" option. At least here by adhering to the grandfather/boostrap paradox they actually cannot alter the past but only the future. And we all knew that time travel would have to be the solution because how else are you going to bring back characters that have sequels coming out (e.g. Spider-Man Far From Home etc.)?

I feel like Black Widow should have been there in that final battle.
I would've preferred it too, but objectively speaking sacrificing Black Widow was the more logical choice since Hawkeye has a family. Black Widow's death leaves sad friends in the wake; Hawkeye's death would do the same but also leave a grieving widow and three orphans. Black Widow wasn't just thinking about her friend, she was also thinking about his family; and we know that she's a good friend of the Barton family.

From a story perspective the loss of Black Widow and Iron Man (and the continued loss of Gamora Prime) gave the story more gravitas. It reminds the audience that this is a consequential war. And it makes the ending less of a "cop out" than it otherwise would have been with a time travel story. Yeah, the loss of these characters suck. It hurts. It's meant to hurt. And while Iron Man orphaned his daughter, he did ensure that she has a future to be orphaned in.

And when Tony snapped his fingers, why did only the baddies turn to dust?
Because it's what Tony Stark wished for; he can bend reality to his will. This is what Thanos did when he supposedly wiped out half of all life in the universe, but in Tony's case he wished for wiping out Thanos and all of his forces. Thanos' new plan was to wish for the universe to be reset with the population reduced and never knowing any other reality.

Another interesting point in the movie was when Captain America took time to notice the benefits of Thanos' plans; when he mentioned how clean the ocean was and how he saw a pod of whales (suggesting that the whale population is recovering). This was always the thing that made Thanos such an interesting villain; while the idea of murdering half the population of the universe is abhorrent, the idea of saving the environment for the sake of future generations makes a whole lot of sense. Of course, Thanos could've just wished for more resources and cleaner environments (e.g. wishing away pollution, patching up the ozone layer etc.) instead of killing people, but then it wouldn't make him much of an antagonist. :p

Ralph Wiggum

26th April 2019, 11:17 AM

Meister

26th April 2019, 11:19 AM

So when Captain America goes back to Vormir to return the Soul Stone, does he have a punch on with Redskull?

Ralph Wiggum

26th April 2019, 11:23 AM

So when Captain America goes back to Vormir to return the Soul Stone, does he have a punch on with Redskull?

Red Skull: No takesie backsies!

And should the Soul stone have given the loved one back? Evidently not as we don�t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted.. ;)

Meister

26th April 2019, 01:05 PM

Red Skull: No takesie backsies!

And should the Soul stone have given the loved one back? Evidently not as we don�t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted.. ;)

You would think so ay?, a soul for a soul?

Admittedly, the time travel concept does leave a lot more questions than answers, but whatever, it�s a comic book movie. Still would have been fun seeing that reunion in a post credit scene

GoktimusPrime

26th April 2019, 02:26 PM

Interesting suggestion of Thanos wishing for more resources/cleaner environments as an alternative. Sadly though I�m inclined to think that this will inevitably lead to the same problem in the future and Thanos will end up with the same problem, and multiple snaps are a no-no. Although not explored in the movies, I wonder if the Thanos snap also sends a message to the survivors to get their stuff together and build a more sustainable population.
You could say the same about Plan A though. What's to stop the universe from becoming overpopulated again and repeating history's mistakes? Thanos needs to also broadcast a universal message to tell people WHY the snap happened so that survivors will ensure that future generations don't repeat the past. Thanos should possibly not destroy the gems but perhaps store them somewhere securely (like maybe a pocket dimension or something) as a threat against the universe should they forget the lesson that he taught them.

I guess the problem with creating more resources and undoing environmental harm is that people might take Thanos' powers for granted; unless in this situation Thanos would broadcast a message saying that it was only possible to do it the one time, destroy the gems and ensure that survivors teach future generations not to squander their resources.

His change of mind at the climax of the movie to wipe out all sentient life was a good touch though.
Not just wipe out but replace. So in that sense he still sees himself as a hero because while he will murder the existing population, he will replace it with a whole new smaller population who will know nothing of what had happened before. He could potentially educate this new generation from the beginning to never overpopulate and abuse natural resources; prevention becomes better than cure.

And funnily enough, it's a philosophy that Iron Man adopts to a much smaller scale. Thanos' Plan B was sacrifice the current population to save future populations. Iron Man adapted this to sacrificing one individual (himself) to save present and future populations. But of course, Iron Man's plan utterly fails to address the environmental issues that Thanos was combating. The universe is now overpopulated again. Unless Tony Stark also simultaneously wished for the undoing of pollution and doubling of natural resources, but the movie never showed this so I'm assuming it didn't happen. :p

And should the Soul stone have given the loved one back? Evidently not as we don�t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted.. ;)
The soul given is payment for access to the soul stone so refunds aren't valid. When Black Widow died Gamora Prime doesn't come back, nor should she.

Gamora Prime's soul was given as payment for Thanos Prime's access to the soul stone. He took the stone and used it, thus the stone is not obliged to give Thanos Prime a refund. Black Widow's soul was given as payment for Hawkeye's access to the soul stone. When the stone is used it has no obligation to refund the user. After all, the user could potentially use the soul stone for an unlimited number of times. Thanos Prime said that he destroyed the stones after using them (using the stones to wish them into oblivion); but if he hadn't then I don't see any reason why he couldn't have kept them.

Speaking of which, I don't remember what happened to the stones after Stark used them. :confused:

DaptoDog

26th April 2019, 04:57 PM

Speaking of which, I don't remember what happened to the stones after Stark used them. :confused:

Umm Hulk got Cap to return them to their original places.

Saw it again today and enjoyed it just as much if not more. Have to say I love the credits that showcased each actor, such a fitting way to wrap it up.

M-bot

26th April 2019, 05:57 PM

A couple of thoughts:

Ned died in the snap. Presumably 1/2 of Spiderman�s class did too. If the returning ones came back to school like Peter and Ned, that would mean that some of the characters in Homecoming are 5 years older than others, including Peter and Ned.

I was expecting to have some clues as to whether or not Far From Home is going to be a prequel to Infinity War or set after Endgame, but if there was, I missed it. It�s been stated that it is the last film of phase 3, so I�m going with prequel.

I thought the way they treated time travel was great. No multiverse! They went to lengths to explain that the way time travel is explained in most popular movies is not how it works here, which I think is smart.

The �forced� woman hero fighting scene was no more contrived than when similar scenes appears in every second popular action film since forever. A similar contrivance happened in the first and second Avengers film, and no one cared. It�s just that people like to complain when these contrivances contain minorities. The complaint is a nonsense one, IMO. My wife loved it and cheered when it happened. So did I.

Some other highlights: Fat Thor. �Bucky is alive�. �Hail Hydra�.

Love it to bits. While I don�t think it�s the best movie ever made, it may be up there with my absolute favourites.

M-bot

26th April 2019, 06:59 PM

Another thought: 2 of the 3 MCU TV shows they have announced for the Disney Plus channel feature characters who are dead. Prequels as well? Probably. Although I can see the possibility of both Loki and Vision returning in some fashion.

Paulbot

26th April 2019, 07:38 PM

I saw it on Wednesday and again on Thursday. Was disappointed on the first viewing but liked it more on the second.

The biggest frustration for me was the time travel logic... I paid closer attention to what Bruce was saying on the second viewing but I'm still not sold on the logic. The death of Nebula from the past in the future, Loki taking the Cosmic Cube and escaping, and the deaths of Thanos and his crew in the future (Oh no I've gone cross-eyed) I can't see how all that doesn't create alternate realities.

I'd have rather a reset that snapped them back to the fields of Wakanda and Thanos clicking his fingers to find the stones had gone and the Avengers defeating him there. .

The time jump is frustrating and breaks anything to come in the cinematic universe. As M-Bot says above approximately half of Peter's classmates are now five years older than the rest. The world has spent 5 years with half the population missing and apart from nobody collecting garbage in San Francisco, lots of boats docked at the Statue of Liberty and people grieving, what impact did it have? The world should have in theory fallen apart a great deal more than this*, and that's fine when you reset the world at the end with space magic but not when you want to keep telling stories in that world. Even with everyone back it should be absolute chaos.

[*I mean who had the time to collect Lang's stuff and put in storage and then pay someone to watch it? You'd think there'd be more important gaps to fill in the country's workforce... I know, I know don't think about it so much]

But on the positive side I liked that time travel meant we got the return of some characters. I was particularly surprised and pleased to see the Ancient One. It's one of the things I love about Marvel Comics shared universe - of course she'd be there defending the Sanctum Sanctorum during an alien invasion.

I do not believe there was any new footage of Natalie Portman, that was surely reused/deleted scene footage from Thor 2 right? It seems the return of the boy from Iron Man 3 at Tony's funeral was the most confusing cameo from what I'm seeing online.

When the returned heroes arrived and Doctor Strange asked "is that everyone?" it seemed the perfect setup for another surprise appearance. For that brief moment I really thought a portal was going to open from New York and the Defenders would walk though to join the fight!

M-bot

26th April 2019, 07:59 PM

Paulbot, what you�re saying about time travel makes a lot of sense (well, more the movie perhaps!). It�s wibbly wobbly timey whimey so who knows? There were big time travel plot holes in Back to the Future too. I�ll take it.:)

The chaos factor is an interesting one. Earth would not be the same, even with everyone returning.

Maybe the Defenders were there all along? I mean, it was a massive battle, they could easily have been off camera. That�s what I am going to choose to believe.

GoktimusPrime

26th April 2019, 09:08 PM

As far as story and plot are concerned, I'd still rate Infinity War as better. But as far as character development is concerned, Endgame is superior. I liked how it was a slow burn for the characters' journeys and in the intervening five years we got to see the Avengers doing just a lot of average every day stuff. They weren't "avenging." Steve Rogers is running a support group, Tony Stark is a husband and father etc. Okay, Clint Barton went off the deep end, but still... they were off having their own personal journeys. And the movie worked on wrapping up many of the characters' journeys that they've been on for the past 11 years.

Take Tony Stark for example. We know that he's taken this journey from irresponsible wise-guy to a someone struggling with inner demons (alcoholism, PTSD), and his post-Sarkovia journey has been one that's focused on responsibility and accountability. That's why he supported the Accords. This is why he bonded with Spider-Man (with great power...). It's all about responsibility. And I love the argument that he had with Steve Rogers, pointing out about how he thinks that they could've prevented all this if they'd signed the Accords and allowed the Avengers to stay together and cover the Earth in a protective shield, even if it meant sacrificing some freedoms. Because what's the point of having more freedom if half the world isn't even around to enjoy it and the other half are emotionally and spiritually broken? In Endgame we see Stark go on a new chapter in his journey of responsibility as he becomes a parent. He is initially hesitant in joining the Avengers in their time heist because now he's not just responsible for his own life, he's also responsible for his daughter's life. And his final sacrifice wasn't just to the world but to ensure that his daughter had a future. And we also see this journey being inspired by Howard Stark when Howard tells him that his weakness is putting his personal interests before that of the greater good; this message inspires Tony to rise up and put the interests of the greater good before himself, and thus his sacrifice is also not only Tony Stark's legacy but Howard Stark's legacy as well.

https://i.ibb.co/6ZY01vH/temp.jpg
"You will travel far, my little Kal-El^Anthony, but we will never leave you - even in the face of our deaths. You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son."

Umm Hulk got Cap to return them to their original places.
*facepalms self* Duuuhh! :p Hulk having his arm broken from his attempt at using the Infinity Stones also gives a reason why he didn't just pick the gauntlet up and wish Tony Stark back to life. And if someone as powerful and gamma radiation resistant as the Hulk can't do it odds are none of the others could (heck it nearly killed Thanos).

Handsprime

26th April 2019, 09:16 PM

Few things to say:

1. Captain Marvel's character felt too overpowered and unnecessary, like she was only there to solve problems and then just fly off.

2. There are a few plot holes in the film (I hope it was just 2014 Nebula being injured and not actually dying), but Thanos dying confuses me. Did he die, or was he just sent back to 2014? If he did die, does someone bring him back in the future, or in the past? This brings more questions than answers.

3. Urgh, Fortnite

4. Biggest complaint about the film. NO END CREDITS SCENE!!!

On the plus side, there were some good moments during the film, and I did enjoy a few of the inside jokes and easter eggs. Would probably rate the film a 6 or 7 out of 10.

Also I can now make memes involving Thor looking like this
https://triblive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/673808_web1_gtr-liv-goldenglobes-121718.jpg

GoktimusPrime

26th April 2019, 09:34 PM

1. Captain Marvel's character felt too overpowered and unnecessary, like she was only there to solve problems and then just fly off.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Although she was pretty much OP in the Captain Marvel movie too, so I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise. On the plus side I did like how the story used her more sparingly and gave the reason that she had obligations to save people in the rest of the galaxy; that people in worlds across the universe were suffering as people on Earth were. And she would only come back when absolutely necessary, and even then she was unable to stop Thanos.

2. There are a few plot holes in the film (I hope it was just 2014 Nebula being injured and not actually dying), but Thanos dying confuses me. Did he die, or was he just sent back to 2014? If he did die, does someone bring him back in the future, or in the past? This brings more questions than answers.
Past Thanos is dead.

4. Biggest complaint about the film. NO END CREDITS SCENE!!!
This is your biggest complaint?!? That the film ended just normally?! Wow... if that was the biggest problem with Bayformers...

i_amtrunks

27th April 2019, 01:25 AM

I felt they undercooked captain marvel after making her so overpowered in her own film. She was a taxi dues ex machine for the pre time skip then a human super missile in the final battle. Between her, scarlet witch and a pissed off Cap, Thanos should�ve been wiped out. Doctor Strange was wasted holding water back, as he could�ve really don�t some damage too.

I would�ve liked some clever death scenes for the children of thanos, ant man stepping on some big guys was fun but unimpressive!

I was hoping for wolverine in the �is that everybody� segment. Knew it was never going to happen, but I wanted it. (Or even a shot of deadpool in the far background going past a portal.

Also I would�ve liked to see Sean gunn�s character piloting a ravaged ship or something.

It�s a shame Nova Prime and the corps is gone, Xandar gone with only the briefest of mentions.

loophole

28th April 2019, 12:05 AM

Saw it, enjoyed probably liked IW a bit more.
But no Stan Lee in memory of, probably saving it for far from home, but still.....

GoktimusPrime

28th April 2019, 01:03 AM

I'm sure everyone noticed Stan Lee's final cameo, however perhaps not everyone noticed the bumper sticker that read, "Nuff Said." ;)

I may be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Captain Marvel have an "in memory of Stan Lee" thing? :confused: Not sure.

Note: Captain Marvel was actually filmed after Endgame.

Ralph Wiggum

28th April 2019, 01:27 AM

Saw it, enjoyed probably liked IW a bit more.
But no Stan Lee in memory of, probably saving it for far from home, but still.....

Stan Lee�s main tribute was in the intro of Captain Marvel.

loophole

28th April 2019, 10:21 AM

Stan Lee�s main tribute was in the intro of Captain Marvel.

Ah, haven't seen it yet. Still with what Endgame means to everyone I would of thought it would of meant more

shockNwave

28th April 2019, 10:47 AM

WOW! What an awesome 3 hour epic!

1. The first section is a slow burn of course because scene setting needs to take place and the regrouping of the Avengers needs time after their massive defeat.

2. The second section with all it's time travelling is a nostalgia blast without looking like a cheapskate cop out. Most impressive are the quests for the space, mind and power stones. Most saddening is the soul stone quest.

3. The third section is an awesome battle at the end. Yes it would've helped if there were cameos from other characters (e.g. Daredevil, The Punisher and even Venom) but that's just a small gripe. I did shed a tear over Tony's death and heard two people sniffling in the cinema (Peter Quill, you've got Tony's blood on your hands you tantrum throwing brat:mad:).

In the lead up to this film, many fans were speculating that the time stone, Ant Man or both hold the key to undoing the damage. So it's a smart and astute move by Marvel to have Tony Stark (and an M.C. Escher work;)) outwiting fanspectations.
I'd like to end by saying that Infinity War is the better movie for those looking for a start to finish action fest.

KELPIE

29th April 2019, 11:06 AM

And we all knew that time travel would have to be the solution because how else are you going to bring back characters that have sequels coming out (e.g. Spider-Man Far From Home etc.)?
They could have not had Thanos destroy the stones and therefore not needed any time travel?

Evidently not as we don�t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted.. ;)
I'm waiting to hear that the Black Widow announcement was a red haring to throw people off the scent for this movie.

The soul given is payment for access to the soul stone so refunds aren't valid. When Black Widow died Gamora Prime doesn't come back, nor should she.
Gamora's soul wasn't in the soul stone yet. They went back to before Thanos claimed it. That said, I agree, no take baksies.

I thought the way they treated time travel was great. No multiverse! They went to lengths to explain that the way time travel is explained in most popular movies is not how it works here, which I think is smart.
Umm... this absolutely now has a multiverse. As explained by the sorceress supreme.

I didn't like the inconsistencies as to how messed up the world is. The population of Manhattan is 1.6mil. 800k living on that small island is still crowded. Not sure the whole thing falls apart with boats just parked in the harbour and garbage not collected.... yet we still have the cable guy and people playing Fortnight?

I liked the movie. It wasn't a great movie, but it was a great ending.

Autocon

29th April 2019, 04:45 PM

I saws it! Write thoughts later. Recommend seeing it at the movie. It only works with the other 22 films before it.

GoktimusPrime

30th April 2019, 09:23 PM

I've been walking around school today telling students, "I love you 3000." :) Those who've seen the film get it while the others are just perplexed. :p One kid got teary.

Another student told me about some whacky idea for an Easter Egg - the fact that Dr Pym's machine in the van was activated by a rodent is meant to symbolise how Disney "saved" Marvel (rodent = Mickey Mouse). :D I don't quite buy this but it did make me laugh.

And one reason why I'm super glad that I watched this film during the school holidays - because kids don't know how to shut the hell up when it comes to spoilers! I told them NOT to discuss spoilers because there are still other students who haven't seen the film yet, but do you think that stopped them? Nope! :rolleyes:

shockNwave

5th May 2019, 02:17 AM

Glad I saw the movie at an 8:45am session. Later that day I was onboard a crowded tram and a bunch of teens are speaking openly about the movie and, "Let there be spoilers" was their attitude.

Defcon

5th May 2019, 05:35 AM

When Captain America at the end is returning the stones, is sent back in time. He is carrying Thor�s hammer? I wonder what happened with that. Looks like they are setting up a young avengers team, what with all the kids. Cassie, Kate, Morgan, and the boy iron man befriended in iron man 3 who was apparently at the funeral in end scenes.

Paulbot

5th May 2019, 05:51 AM

Cap took Mjolnir back to its proper time along with the stones.

Morgan is probably too young (she�s a four year old), but I could see a �Young Avengers� movie that had Shuri gather a team up of Cassie, Lila (Hawkeye�s daughter) and Harley (the kid from Iron Man 3). For more �boys� they could introduce Armaedus Cho (whose mother has been around) maybe Teddy (after Captain Marvel) and a Billy that�s just an actual Asgardian from the new village? I think they�d do a Ms Marvel film first though and make it a Champions movie/team that was a mix of both teams.

Defcon

5th May 2019, 06:11 AM

I thought the scenes with Thor were just over the top, its the character having a personal crisis, suffering depression. While its probably more or less accurate, but its so cliche, beer and video games and cable tv. I could take an overweight Thor, who has been drinking heavily and eating because of great loss and failure. Just not happy, video games are associated with that. Same old negative stereotype, not denying its true in many cases. I just hate it.

Defcon

5th May 2019, 06:14 AM

Trent

5th May 2019, 07:24 AM

I saws it! Write thoughts later. Recommend seeing it at the movie. It only works with the other 22 films before it.

Yeah this was what I thought too. If you�re not into the MCU enough to have a good grip on what happened over the last 22 movies, Endgame would be absolute trash.

As it was, while I enjoyed it immensely, it was not as good as Infintiy War. And that I primarily put down to Thanos not getting any further character development. Infinity War was great because we learned about Thanos. We learned his past, his motivations and goals. But I thought that Endgame in no way expanded upon that. It just coasted along and didn�t progress his character in any way apart from an. Few throw away lines at the end that made him essentially just another bad guy.

I liked the Thanos that I could empathise with.

Ralph Wiggum

5th May 2019, 09:47 AM

I wonder if its better to watch Infinity War and End Game in one single viewing.

Tetsuwan Convoy

5th May 2019, 11:47 AM

I enjoyed it and it was a nice finish up to the series. One thing I've been thinking about though s this:

During the 5 years before they brought everyone back, they were (or cap was anyway) move on and get on with life. As I suspect everyone else was too.

Then they bring everyone back. To those that have come back, it's just been a blink in time, but to those who weren't, it's been 5 years and they've been trying to move on and deal with it. Having half the population back all at once would be difficult to deal with on personal level as well as an infrastructural level.

Essentially, my thinking is, SHOULD the Avengers have brought everyone back after 5 years? I'd agree it's the right thing to do if they could have done it right after the snap, but since it took so long before they could fix it, you now where I coming from?

Stark kind of knows what's at stake, as he makes it known that he doesn't want current time messed with, but no-one else seems to mind that much.

Autocon

5th May 2019, 10:42 PM

I still dont get how they got the spaceship through? A bit of lazy writing.

Cap America changed the time line. How did he not end up in a different time line?

Krayt

6th May 2019, 10:33 AM

I still dont get how they got the spaceship through? A bit of lazy writing.

Cap America changed the time line. How did he not end up in a different time line?

He did....

The producers have cleared up that he was in his own branch with Peggy, and jumped back across to the main branch to give Sam the shield....

And in this way, there is no second Cap to look for in the background of the other 21 movies

Deonasis

6th May 2019, 11:32 AM

I did not like Endgame much at all. Like most series, their hands are tied with where they can take the film, and Infinity War did this brilliantly. But this time I did not enjoy either the plot, the pacing, or maybe both.

KELPIE

6th May 2019, 03:33 PM

Another student told me about some whacky idea for an Easter Egg - the fact that Dr Pym's machine in the van was activated by a rodent is meant to symbolise how Disney "saved" Marvel (rodent = Mickey Mouse). :D I don't quite buy this but it did make me laugh.

Except that Marvel didn't need saving. They had already put themselves in the black, released Iron Man and Incredible Hulk, with Iron Man 2 nearly completed.

As a side note, did the mouse actually activate the van, or did it happen to be there when Ant-Man came back? Because when talking to Tony, he does claim that he got himself back.

I enjoyed it and it was a nice finish up to the series. One thing I've been thinking about though s this:

During the 5 years before they brought everyone back, they were (or cap was anyway) move on and get on with life. As I suspect everyone else was too.
Just think about the poor bloke who moved on and re-married only for his wife to come back...

I still dont get how they got the spaceship through? A bit of lazy writing.

I would have to re-watch, however I thought the whole ship was shrunk down with the stolen pym particles and was in Nebula's pocket or something?

Ralph Wiggum

6th May 2019, 03:50 PM

My guess is that Thanos and his cronies managed to get an idea of how the time machine worked based on Nebula�s memories, and managed to reverse engineer the Pym particles they took from her, in order to transport the ship forward through time.

DaptoDog

6th May 2019, 04:06 PM

I loved both Endgame and Inifinity War for different reasons since they were obviously entirely different movies. Endgame had more emotive moments, I teared up numerous times. Whereas Infinity War was non-stop action and had the much better insight into Thanos as Trent mentioned.

Having seen Endgame twice now I have a feeling that Infinity War will prove more rewatchable for me personally since I'm usually looking for a good action movie to watch on a Friday night after a long week at work. I have a feeling the time travel concept in Endgame will end up losing its gimmicky appeal and I'll be impatiently waiting (or fast forwarding) to get to the 3rd act. Would be interested to hear what everyone else thinks about the rewatchability of these two films?

GoktimusPrime

7th May 2019, 10:40 AM

I always knew that Spider-Man Far From Home was going to take place after Endgame, but lots of people speculated that it was a prequel to Infinity War. The new Spider Man trailer proves that it is indeed after Endgame.

KELPIE

8th May 2019, 09:51 AM

Having seen Endgame twice now I have a feeling that Infinity War will prove more rewatchable for me personally since I'm usually looking for a good action movie to watch on a Friday night after a long week at work. I have a feeling the time travel concept in Endgame will end up losing its gimmicky appeal and I'll be impatiently waiting (or fast forwarding) to get to the 3rd act. Would be interested to hear what everyone else thinks about the rewatchability of these two films?

I've only re-watched Iron Man twice, Incredible Hulk twice, Iron Man 2, twice, GotG once.... and that's it.

Over all, Ii haven't really experienced the need to re-watch the Marvel MCU. Not sure if it's a, me getting older thing, or if it seems more like a TV show with so many instalments, where a re-watching in my mind feeling like a 22 movie mission?

DaptoDog

8th May 2019, 11:46 AM

I've only re-watched Iron Man twice, Incredible Hulk twice, Iron Man 2, twice, GotG once.... and that's it.

Over all, Ii haven't really experienced the need to re-watch the Marvel MCU. Not sure if it's a, me getting older thing, or if it seems more like a TV show with so many instalments, where a re-watching in my mind feeling like a 22 movie mission?

Oh my son and I rewatch a lot of the Marvel movies, we have them all on Blu-ray. Guess it's something kids do and it's nice to watch them together. I remember as a kid recording movies off the TV and watching them over and over. Terminator 2, Aliens, White Men Can't Jump etc.

I'd say the most rewatchable for us in the MCU in no particular order are Infinity War, Thor Ragnorak, Civil War, Black Panther and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (he is going to watch the 1st one this weekend with me for the first time so I'd say this will be added).

GoktimusPrime

8th May 2019, 02:54 PM

Oh my son and I rewatch a lot of the Marvel movies, we have them all on Blu-ray. Guess it's something kids do and it's nice to watch them together.
*on screen high five*
I do the same with my daughter. She's actually watched Infinity War many more times than I have! :D

Her ardent wish is for Marvel and DC characters to team up.

Jetfire in the sky

8th May 2019, 04:37 PM

Great movie, not a five star one but easily a solid four. It set out what it needed to do in a great way, slow pacing at times gave certain situations the gravitas they deserved.
I love that Scarlet Witch got to showcase her power albeit towards the end, I think Hemsworth stole the show and the ending to Stark was so well done, to be honest I didn't expect it and it made it all the more I'm not crying you're crying.

I wont go watch it again due to its run time but will definitely get it on BR and enjoy it properly in the comfort of my own home with close proximity to tissues and toilet. :D:D

shockNwave

8th May 2019, 07:39 PM

Lots and lots of tributes to Tony Stark popping up on YouTube lately. Most notable is the one featuring Queen's The Show Must Go On and the one with Daft Punk's Robot Rock (that awesome tune from the Iron Man vs War Machine scene of Iron Man 2.....love it).

jazzcomp

8th May 2019, 09:47 PM

Since the infinity stones had to be returned so that the original timeline isn't affected, how is Thanos able to go thru both timelines?

Where is Loki now since he escaped? Did he really escape whether or not the tesseract was stolen?

It's kind of HP/Hermione going back in time and seeing themselves and that their future selves are really supposed to be there. :)

Autocon

8th May 2019, 10:32 PM

Theres now a new time line where thanos leaves through a time tunnel and never returns so events do not unfold from that point on.

How does Cap. A travel back to this time line?

GoktimusPrime

8th May 2019, 11:24 PM

Where is Loki now since he escaped? Did he really escape whether or not the tesseract was stolen?
One theory I've heard is that future movies might reveal this. It's essentially rebooted Loki's timeline allowing him to potentially appear in Phase IV movies, and this time he's still a complete bad guy. The heroic Loki who was killed by Thanos remains dead. It allows the story to have Loki back as a villain without undoing the incredible character development done with Loki Prime.

Autocon

8th May 2019, 11:54 PM

Cap.A went back in time and stopped loki from escaping while returning the stones. If he escapes it starts a new time line.

jazzcomp

9th May 2019, 08:43 AM

Theres now a new time line where thanos leaves through a time tunnel and never returns so events do not unfold from that point on.

How does Cap. A travel back to this time line?

If events do not unfold as he died leaving thru the time tunnel, then he never collected the stones in the original timeline.

Cap didn't travel back. :D He just let time pass and live from the 1950's (or whichever decade) and that's why he's old now.

One theory I've heard is that future movies might reveal this. It's essentially rebooted Loki's timeline allowing him to potentially appear in Phase IV movies, and this time he's still a complete bad guy. The heroic Loki who was killed by Thanos remains dead. It allows the story to have Loki back as a villain without undoing the incredible character development done with Loki Prime.
Just puts a wrench in the whole timeline as two tesseracts now exist at the same time. One with Loki and one that was returned.

Cap.A went back in time and stopped loki from escaping while returning the stones. If he escapes it starts a new time line.
Starts a new timeline and changes the timeline where he was returned to Asgard and was killed by Thanos later on.

So basically, they messed up the timeline even if they returned the stones and the effects/changes to the new timeline is unknown.

Really funny references to all the time travel movies but doesn't really explain how their time travel logic works as it may also affect them.

GoktimusPrime

9th May 2019, 09:08 AM

RE: Time travel plotholes
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/why-avengers-endgame-time-travel-plotholes-should-be-forgiven-1206333

KELPIE

9th May 2019, 09:15 AM

Oh my son and I rewatch a lot of the Marvel movies, we have them all on Blu-ray. Guess it's something kids do and it's nice to watch them together. I remember as a kid recording movies off the TV and watching them over and over. Terminator 2, Aliens, White Men Can't Jump etc.
Yeah, that's why I said it must be an age thing, when I was younger I'd re-watch everything. Now a bit older and no kids of my own, time is harder to come by and when I have it, I want to spend it on other things.

Theres now a new time line where thanos leaves through a time tunnel and never returns so events do not unfold from that point on.
Yup and that timeline is screwed. Without a Gamora in that timeline, Ego the living planet should be successful in basically performing genocide on the whole universe.

Cap didn't travel back. :D He just let time pass and live from the 1950's (or whichever decade) and that's why he's old now.
He can't just live through to where they are now. That's not how "time travel" works in these movies. Unfortunately it was a bit of a goof.

How does Cap. A travel back to this time line?
The Directors in an interview have said that Cap used the watch to travel back at some point later in life from his alternate timeline. This all conveniently happened off screen.

Just puts a wrench in the whole timeline as two tesseracts now exist at the same time. One with Loki and one that was returned.
Nope, still one Tesseract and Loki has it. The one that was returned was returned earlier on in that same timeline.

So basically, they messed up the timeline even if they returned the stones and the effects/changes to the new timeline is unknown.

Really funny references to all the time travel movies but doesn't really explain how their time travel logic works as it may also affect them.
Yeah, sure is messed up :P

Also, an annoying thing to think about is - Nice of Cap to return the stones to their original spots... but he only took the stones back. How exactly is putting them back going to work?
The tesseract was crushed leaving only the stone inside, the staff with the mind stone was left behind, the orb for the power stone is also missing and the reality stone should be umm, liquefied and injected back into Jane Foster somehow?

jazzcomp

9th May 2019, 09:28 AM

He can't just live through to where they are now. That's not how "time travel" works in these movies. Unfortunately it was a bit of a goof.

The Directors in an interview have said that Cap used the watch to travel back at some point later in life from his alternate timeline. This all conveniently happened off screen.

Saw another reply that he time travelled to this time to give the shield. :) Anything's possible.

Nope, still one Tesseract and Loki has it. The one that was returned was returned earlier on in that same timeline.

Ok. My mistake. :D I forgot about going back further since they lost it to Loki.

drifand

9th May 2019, 09:59 AM

Trent

9th May 2019, 12:42 PM

You all realise that there a major plot holes with every conceivable time travel story ever told right? Terminator was no less garbage in that regard.

DaptoDog

9th May 2019, 01:10 PM

You all realise that there a major plot holes with every conceivable time travel story ever told right? Terminator was no less garbage in that regard.

Yep absolutely. I just prefer to not worry with that stuff and just enjoy the movie for what it is.

Defcon

9th May 2019, 03:37 PM

I enjoyed the movie despite plot holes.

Nabula actually felt like one of the main heroes she changed to a better character.

I for one actually didn�t feel iron man needed to snap his fingers. Scarlet witch and marvel could definitely take Thanos down for good. You could use a few stones and especially you have time stone, play it the way you want.

The female moment should not have happened, wasn�t needed and should be a mix team effort.

Makes you wonder if Loki is actually dead also.

I was actually surprised that Iron man snapped his figures vanishing Thanos and his forces. It wasn�t his first choice, the battle just played out that way. Captain Marvel almost stopped Thanos but was blasted away with the power stone in a tricky move. At that point Iron man was close by and needed to act.

The female moment �she is not alone� was a reference to infinity war when black widow and two others were fighting Proxima, the same phrase was spoken. Its silly because all the female heroes line up, I would of preferred a proper fight scene. Maybe there was just don�t remember it. That last battle felt short and over quickly.

Don�t think Loki is dead, he is the god of Mischief, a Trickster, almost anything is possible.

philby

9th May 2019, 04:34 PM

You all realise that there a major plot holes with every conceivable time travel story ever told right? Terminator was no less garbage in that regard.

yeah but this one is annoying when they go to lengths to actually explain in the movie how it will work for them but then go against that by having captain america grow old and live in the same timeline.

Omega Supreme

9th May 2019, 05:13 PM

Thought the movie was an excellent conclusion to phase 3. Was worried about the length but it had so much action the way through to keep it entertaining. Look forward to the next batch of Marvel movies although its going to be strange without Cap & Ironman.

Ralph Wiggum

9th May 2019, 06:42 PM

This is how I�m able to sit back and enjoy the movie :D

https://youtu.be/x8w95xIdH4o?t=26

Trent

9th May 2019, 08:01 PM

yeah but this one is annoying when they go to lengths to actually explain in the movie how it will work for them but then go against that by having captain america grow old and live in the same timeline.

But literally any explanation they came up with would have had at least 1 glaring hole in it. I�m just glad that Endgame tried something different with a frankly cliched and boring idea.

Trent

9th May 2019, 08:08 PM

This is how I�m able to sit back and enjoy the movie :D

https://youtu.be/x8w95xIdH4o?t=26

That about sums it up.

GoktimusPrime

9th May 2019, 11:16 PM

You all realise that there a major plot holes with every conceivable time travel story ever told right?
Pretty true, although a few rare stories like The Time Machine and Interstellar do a better job than others. Also, Avengers is a story with a talking raccoon, so... :p ;)

drifand

10th May 2019, 10:50 AM

In Honesty when I watched it the first time I was feeling meh.... about it but I have rewatched about twice now and I felt it was quite well done.

Overall I am not disappointed. Sure we can always say it could have been better, but it is good enough.

KELPIE

13th May 2019, 09:26 AM

Overall I am not disappointed. Sure we can always say it could have been better, but it is good enough.

When it's only comparison / competition is the Justice League movie, this is a masterpiece :p

Raider

13th May 2019, 06:34 PM

Yep absolutely. I just prefer to not worry with that stuff and just enjoy the movie for what it is.

^ this.

Yay I can now comment. Finally saw the movie today and loved it. Some minor grievances but overall really enjoyed it. The funeral for Tony got me in the feels. I don't think I've ever shed a tear at a movie before but i did for this. When seeing his daughter at the funeral just got me as a parent.

Must say overall I enjoyed the plot. It was not what I expected but it didn't pull that subverting expectation crap (cough TLJ cough). I wish they hadn't used time travel but otherwise was very pleased. Did Tony call Thor Lebowski? If so that was brilliant.