What language (other than English) do you speak?

[GoktimusPrime]

Please select the language that you are the most fluent at speaking other than English.

e.g.: if you speak English, Portuguese and Farsi, but your Portuguese is better than your Farsi, then select Farsi. Okay, Farsi's not an option... but you would select "other" and reply with "Farsi." :p Mersi (I have no idea if my Romanised Farsi spelling is correct or not) :p

[roller]

most fluent after english eh?

Jap i guess, though ive forgotten most of it

followed by Germanian

then Chinese, apparently i was quite fluent in the larvae stage

[GoktimusPrime]

There's a poll now - go vote roller. ;)

[Pulse]

Compared to other Greek-Australians, My Helleniko is pretty shocking but atleast I know all the "essentials" ;) :D

[roller]

\g but atleast I know all the "essentials" ;) :D

essentials like

Vissiar, leftah :D:D:D:D

[Pulse]

essentials like

Vissiar, leftah :D:D:D:D

:D Roller, if you ever need lessons in Greek (I'm talking about all the nice words ;)) Just ask... :D

[Rampage]

just english for me

i is oresome ats it

[jacksplatt11]

No pig latin? hmmm...

I dunno, after English I'm not fluent in anything, I can get by though in:

Italian, did this in primary school and can still do greetings etc and recognise most words, so with a dictionary handy I could get by

Indonesian, did this in high school and pretty much the same deal, could get by with the help of a dictionary

Macedonian, learned a few greetings and stuff from a friend and can kinda read the Cyrillic alphabet, need a reference though cause I usually forget some (read: most :D)

[kennymak167]

chinese for me. After living in hong kong for 15 years, i can write, speak, and read chinese very well.

[TheDirtyDigger]

I know all the important phrases in Cantonese.

"Wife what is for dinner?"
"Shut up, sit down, don't cry"

You get the gist.;)

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

most fluent after english eh?

Jap i guess, though ive forgotten most of it

followed by Germanian

then Chinese, apparently i was quite fluent in the larvae stage
Sometimes I wonder if you are fluent in english;):p

[optimus1]

I can understand a conversation in Tagalog (Filipino)but not able to speak it, except for a few words. It didn't help that I had parents that each spoke different dialects but was born and grew up in good ole Brisbane!

The good thing is I can understand my aunts/uncles/other relos pretty well

[blackie]

its german for me, although im out of practice

[GoktimusPrime]

Sometimes I wonder if you are fluent in english
<大笑> (^0^)
That's Japanese for "lol" d:


I can understand a conversation in Tagalog (Filipino)but not able to speak it, except for a few words.
Yeah, that's called receiving bilingualism. It can refer to either someone who can understand a language when it is spoken to them but they are unable to speak it and/or when a person is able to read a language but they are unable to write it. :)

[Bartrim]

I can understand Italian but can't speak it properly as my thick australian accent (yes I have been told by many an international friend that I have a very thick Australian accent) usuallys causes me to stuff up the words.

[liegeprime]

I can understand a conversation in Tagalog (Filipino)but not able to speak it, except for a few words. It didn't help that I had parents that each spoke different dialects but was born and grew up in good ole Brisbane!

The good thing is I can understand my aunts/uncles/other relos pretty well

Heheheh good for you! At least you wont get "sold" when your in Phil's on holiday:D:D. Oh and of course obviously for me - Tagalog dialect.
Hmmm No Indian language in the selection,guess it falls in the "other" does that mean there aren't Indian TF collectors? just a query and out of curio?


What?!? NO Benbenese:p;)

[GoktimusPrime]

I can understand Italian but can't speak it properly as my thick australian accent (yes I have been told by many an international friend that I have a very thick Australian accent) usuallys causes me to stuff up the words.
That reminds me of those Leggos ads with Jimmy Barnes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snsoaRRX73k) and Kate Fisher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQP4bvLsII). :) :D


What?!? NO Benbenese
Nah, you need a Burmese tech specs decoder to understand that monoration. :p

[Golden Phoenix]

I don't speak anything else. Just Australian.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Nah, you need a Burmese tech specs decoder to understand that monoration. :p
A tech specs decoder for language would be awesome!


I don't speak anything else. Just Australian.
SHoudln't that be "Austrayan" ? ;)
:D

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't speak anything else. Just Australian.
Then that would fall under "other." There are hundreds of Australian languages, some of them have become extinct with many others on the verge of extinction. The original language of Sydney is called Dharug or Iyora, originally spoken by the Dharruk people. I have no idea what the original language of Melbourne would be.

There's also English... but that language is from England, not Australia (Australian English being derived from Cockney). ;) Of course, this thread is about languages other than English. :) Jolly good chaps (tally ho)!

[Golden Phoenix]

Then that would fall under "other." There are hundreds of Australian languages, some of them have become extinct with many others on the verge of extinction. The original language of Sydney is called Dharug or Iyora, originally spoken by the Dharruk people. I have no idea what the original language of Melbourne would be.

There's also English... but that language is from England, not Australia (Australian English being derived from Cockney). ;) Of course, this thread is about languages other than English. :) Jolly good chaps (tally ho)!

I was jokingly referring to the style of English we speak here. Because of all the slang and what not. Kind of like cockney slang, only to a lesser extent

[blackie]

i dont even speak english, only bad english

[dirge]

There's no option for C++?

[GoktimusPrime]

i dont even speak english, only bad english
My English is the goodest.

[blackie]

how about engrish?

[GoktimusPrime]

how about engrish?
For Great Justice! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg) :D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/allyourbasearebelongtous_armada.jpg

[roller]

i bet no one here can speak welsh!!

[Paulbot]

I can speak HTML, BASIC, VisualBASIC, and Javascript... so I guess Machine language is the correct option for me.

[blackie]

hmm paul i think that machine language would be directly linked to binary..... can you speak that :P

[Paulbot]

00000110 110000 001001 1100 1100 01010010 001010010 :)

[Paulbot]

Actually Goktimus the last option should be: "I talk TV. You talk TV?"

[liegeprime]

Out of curio again , I wonder if we have members who don't speak at all, as in mute?.... they can type of course so interacting in the board is ok, but then sign language will pose a bit of a problem especially during meet-ups. hmmmm

[iceburn]

CHI - NA - NESSE for me
could also add Singish

[GoktimusPrime]

liegeprime: there are some Transfans who do communicate with sign language... one was an active member on the now defunct austnet #transformers IRC channel a fews ago but she's not a member of this message board. She wasn't mute though - she could speak and lip-read, as could her other hearing-impaired Transfan friend.

She used to complain about the Madman G1 Transformers DVDs not having English subtitles. I invited her to this animé channel where there was a Madman rep hoping that she could present her case to him and convince Madman to release future TF DVDs with subtitles. The conversation went something like this...

Madman Rep> How can I help you?
Transfan> I want Transformers DVDs with subtitles.
Madman Rep> Transformers was originally done in English. There's no need for subtitles.
Transfan> I'm deaf.

That's one thing that I like about the Sony Beast Machines DVDs - unlike Madman TF DVDs (with the exception of their G1 Takara DVDs), they have subtitles. :) So from a hearing-impaired POV I think Sony does a better job... but it's the only aspect of Sony's TF DVDs that I prefer... in every other way I prefer Madman (like ya know... special features!).

http://csr.necsoft.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/10/syuwa.gif
Translation: "Let's begin (using) sign language!"

(nobody post pics of norti gestures please :p)

[liegeprime]

Thanks Gok, thats interesting to know, shame some of the old TF fans from the old boards didnt join in this new one, although thats not to say our current roster is not interesting as it is. ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

I also looked at heroic_decepticon's Chinese KO of Transformers Generation - basically the TF:Generations book translated into Chinese but with poorer resolution pics cos it's a KO... I was reading the Kanji for the Chinese names and had a good giggle at some of the Chinese translations for TF names... like Starscream is called 'Kou-kumo' (紅蜘蛛) which means Red Spider (WTF?!). And Ginrai is called 'Chounou-tairyou' (超能大量) meaning "Mass Super Power"... what I found odd was why they didn't just use the Kanji for Ginrai (神雷) - even though the Japanese write it in Katakana (ジンライ) the name was intended to be Japanese (as confirmed by Kaneda Masumi). I thought that was kinda odd.

On another note, someone was asking me today why I just put "Chinese" as one of the options instead of "Mandarin/Cantonese" considering that Chinese isn't a spoken language. There are actually many more spoken Sinitic languages aside from Mandarin and Cantonese, and even more dialects amongst them (Reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoken_Chinese)).

[Sam]

Well, since being able to speak something fluently is not the same as being able to read and write something fluently ... Cantonese and Mandarin for me. :)

[jacksplatt11]

There are KO TF books? arrr.. What won't they KO...

[GoktimusPrime]

Well, since being able to speak something fluently is not the same as being able to read and write something fluently
Yeah I know, but considering that this thread is called "What language (other than English) do you speak?" - so the poll is meant to be focussing on spoken languages rather than written ones. ;)

Heh... I was considering putting Arabic as an option too which would've had a similar issue as Chinese because Arabic is also a literary language, not a spoken one. People read Arabic but will speak say Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Palestinian, Tunisian etc. - all of which are, like Chinese languages, mutually unintelligible.

[STL]

I noticed there was no option for the language of love. :rolleyes:

[1orion2many]

I noticed there was no option for the language of love. :rolleyes:

:)I will now step away from the one liners:p:D.

[Kyle]

There are KO TF books? arrr.. What won't they KO...

There are HEAPS. :D:o:p

[Pulse]

... as my thick australian accent (yes I have been told by many an international friend that I have a very thick Australian accent) usuallys causes me to stuff up the words.

That reminds me of this one time when I was in Auckland for a week with a couple of mates a few years ago & I can remember everytime I spoke to a Kiwi (be it when trying to buy something or to my Mate's Kiwi GF at the time) they all told me "Sorry, but I can't understand a word you're saying. You speak way too fast & your accent is making it much worse. Can you say it again much_slower?"

I tried speaking_slower but they still couldn't bloody figure me out... *deep sigh*

[Borgeman]

Compared to other Greek-Australians, My Helleniko is pretty shocking but atleast I know all the "essentials" ;) :D


Τι λες ρε, Έλληνας είσε, not this greek australian crap :D

Γιώργος

[Pulse]

Τι λες ρε, Έλληνας είσε, not this greek australian crap :D

Γιώργος

Eh stovlayo meh afto :D

Ta Ellynika mou eivai skata - etsi ven mila-o Ellynika katholo :D

Hey you damn Greeko's, you live in Oztraylia now - learn the fricken language... :o

[dirge]

...Olympiakos.

[GoktimusPrime]

I noticed there was no option for the language of love.
There are already two Romance languages in the poll options. Given that there are only 10 poll options I could only squeeze in eight language options (as 1 would be "other" and another for "none").


Τι λες ρε, Έλληνας είσε, not this greek australian crap

Γιώργος
+1 QFT! :) As Jazz says, "Do it in style or don't bother doing it!"

[Pulse]

+1 QFT! :) As Jazz says, "Do it in style or don't bother doing it!"

How do you know Borge & I aren't swearing at eachother in Greeko? :D

[Borgeman]

he is greek in disguise??? 0.O

George

[GoktimusPrime]

How do you know Borge & I aren't swearing at eachother in Greeko?
"What you're saying is Greek, not this Greek Australian crap.

George."

At least Borgeman types in proper Έλληνας instead of Romanised Έλληνας.

http://www.hoteltravel.com/malaysia/melaka/maps/melaka_map.gif
Malaysian tour guide: Welcome to Malacca!
Greek tourists: MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Borgeman]

actually gok, i said:

what are you saying*, you're greek, not this Greek Australian crap.

i love crappy translators, dont react well to casual talking :D

George

*(in a questioning tone)

[Pulse]

At least Borgeman types in proper Έλληνας instead of Romanised Έλληνας.


I didn't use Romanised Έλληνας - I used jibberish that only a Greek would comprehend.

When Borge used proper Έλληνας, it meant that anyone could translate it & find out what he said. If you tried to translate my jibberish, you wouldn't get anywhere.

So next time we speak Elleviko Ywpyio, we should use jibberish so that no one's the wiser. ;)

[Borgeman]

Ναι Κυριος Πολς :)

George

[GoktimusPrime]

actually gok, i said:

what are you saying*, you're greek, not this Greek Australian crap.
Yeah, I figured that was the gist of what you were saying - which I full heartedly agree with. :)


Ναι Κυριος Πολς
*γέλιο* :D

[Pulse]

Ywpyio

Ven sou vonei ta skata autos o kopanos kabosess foress otav mila-ei kato se mas?

Eivai sav vomizei eima-ster hazei oi katei? Sav vomizei ta xepei ola (oxi yia movo pai-xvei-via ala kai ola ta pragmata)

Ama ven to eheis vei - Eyo ven milayo kafolo me autos o kopanos...




O kai xero oti fa sou pwtisei ti eipa - Boreis va peis oti ven katalavess tipota? :)

[Bartrim]

O kai xero oti fa sou pwtisei ti eipa - Boreis va peis oti ven katalavess tipota? :)

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm218/Bartrim/PANCAKES.gif

Hows that for a response?:p

[Borgeman]

Ywpyio

Ven sou vonei ta skata autos o kopanos kabosess foress otav mila-ei kato se mas?

Eivai sav vomizei eima-ster hazei oi katei? Sav vomizei ta xepei ola (oxi yia movo pai-xvei-via ala kai ola ta pragmata)

Ama ven to eheis vei - Eyo ven milayo kafolo me autos o kopanos...




O kai xero oti fa sou pwtisei ti eipa - Boreis va peis oti ven katalavess tipota? :)

ven fa po tipota, axpistos anfropos eive, kambossos ykolotripos :D

Ywpyio

[TheDirtyDigger]

There are already two Romance languages in the poll options. Given that there are only 10 poll options I could only squeeze in eight language options (as 1 would be "other" and another for "none").


Haha...I think STL was referring to the universal language of love (the unspoken tongue) rather than the Romance languages of Spanish, Italian and Interlac.

[GoktimusPrime]

Romanised Greek isn't real Greek! Boo!

Έχοντας αγοράσει το πρώτο του αυτοκίνητο, ο νεαρός Σαμ δοκιμάζει μια τεράστια έκλπηξη όταν ένα βράδυ το "άψυχο" όχημα του μεταμορφώνεται σε γιγαντιαίο ρομπότ. Πολύ σύντομα αντιλαμβάνεται πως πρόκειται για "Transformers", ρομπότ δηλαδή από τον πλανήτη Σάιμπερτρον, το οποίο έχει σταλεί στη Γη για να την προστατέψει μαζί με την ομάδα του (Ότομποτς) από τους "κακούς" της υπόθεσης και αντιπάλους των πρώτων, Ντισέπτικονς. Και καθώς οι τελευταίοι στοχεύουν στις ενεργειακές πηγές της Γης, ο πόλεμος δεν αργεί να ξεσπάσει...
Ήταν το 1984 όταν τα παιχνίδια- ρομπότ της εταιρίας Hasbro υπό την ονομασία "Transformers" κατακτούσαν τον κόσμο, κερδίζοντας παράλληλα την τηλεοπτική τους εμφάνιση. Πλέον και ενώ ήδη θεωρούνται από τις cult παιδικές τηλεοπτικές σειρές, οι γνωστές φιγούρες ζωντανεύουν και στη μεγάλη οθόνη δια χειρός Μάικλ Μπέι που διαχειρίζεται μαεστρικά το θεόρατο budget και δημιουργεί ένα blockbuster ανάλογων διαστάσεων....Κι αν αναλογιστούμε αυτό που είχε πει κάποτε ο ίδιος ο σκηνοθέτης, ότι δηλαδή οι ταινίες του απευθύνονται σε 11χρονα αγοράκια, τότε το "Transformers" μοιάζει η ιδανική ευκαιρία να βγάλει ο καθένας το παιδί που κρύβει μέσα του! Πρόκειται για μια εντυπωσιακή υπερπαραγωγή που αναμένεται να συγκαταλεχθεί μεταξύ των αγαπημένων φετινών καλοκαιρινών blockbuster, καθώς συνδυάζει την ασταμάτητη δράση με άκρως συναρπαστικά εφέ (από τα καλύτερα που έχουμε δει) και δικαιολογεί τη χρονική διάρκεια των δύο+ ωρών. Ασφαλώς το σενάριο και οι χαρακτήρες δεν παρουσιάζουν κάποιο ιδιαίτερο ενδιαφέρον, όμως, τελικά, ποιος νοιάζεται;


Haha...I think STL was referring to the universal language of love (the unspoken tongue) rather than the Romance languages of Spanish, Italian and Interlac.
Aww, what a sweetie. Anyway, this thread is about spoken languages.

[STL]

Aww, what a sweetie. Anyway, this thread is about spoken languages.

But I speak. Maybe not in more than in 1 syllable sounds but I'm sure I do.

[Pulse]

Romanised Greek isn't real Greek! Boo!


but we were just discussing the weather... :o

[GoktimusPrime]

...okay... let's try and make this thread into a semi-useful resource.

If anyone has a question about any of the languages spoken by our community here feel free to post it here and hopefully someone can help you. :) Erm... nothing too norti or controversial please.

So far we currently have the following languages other than English identified as being spoken by our community:
Chinese
Greek
Italian
Japanese
Maltese
Spanish
Tagalog
German
...we'll call them our "community LOTE (Languages Other Than English)." :)

Okay, I'll get things started...

I would like a translation for "More Than Meets The Eye" and "Till All Are One" in our community LOTE.

Japanese doesn't use "More Than Meets The Eye" for Transformers, but the translation of that idiom would be "目に見える以上に" (me ni mieru ijou ni). Now in the Japanese version of Transformers the Movie, Convoy doesn't say "Till All Are One" but rather he says "The universe (shall) be one" which is "宇宙は一つに" (uchuu wa hitotsu ni). The same line is repeated by Ultra Magnus & the Autobots on Junkion (just before Magnus is scrapped) and at the end of the movie by Rodimus Convoy and the Autobots on Cybertron just before the ending credits scroll. :)

...okay... now tell me how to say those two phrases in our other community LOTE!! ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=118469&postcount=27):


for some reason Japanese pronouce there 'l's as 'r's hehe
Actually it's neither - the Japanese /r/ is somewhere midway between an English /l/ and /r/. In English, /r/ is an alveolar approximant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_approximant) and /l/ is a alveolar lateral approximant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_lateral_approximant). The Japanese /r/ is a an alveolar tap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_tap).

The fact is that the Japanese /r/ sound simply doesn't exist in English or any other European language - although the /r/ in Spanish is more similar as an alveolar flap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flap_consonant); and considering that Spanish and Portuguese missionaries would have been the first Europeans to Romanise the Japanese language it's not too surprising that they transcribed it as "r".

P.S.: remind me next time you come to a Sydney meet - I'll show you how to pronounce it correctly if you want. :)

[Sam]

Just wondering if the word "Transformers" has a direct translation in any of the LOTE you speak?

[blackoptimus]

I speak Chinese Cantonese!

[nettie!]

Indonesian

followed by German

[autobreadticon]

I speak gangsta, ahhh yeah

[sanbot]

P.S.: remind me next time you come to a Sydney meet - I'll show you how to pronounce it correctly if you want. :)

Yup, I'll be sure to take up your offer on free japanese speaking lesson :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Just wondering if the word "Transformers" has a direct translation in any of the LOTE you speak?
In Japanese it's "Toransufoomaa" (トランスフォーマー); although fans often abbreviate it as "Torafo" (トラフォ) :)

[Sam]

In Japanese it's "Toransufoomaa" (トランスフォーマー); although fans often abbreviate it as "Torafo" (トラフォ) :)

Yeah ... do you know if they have a "native name" for TFs?

What I mean is ... in Cantonese the translation is something like "shape changing metallic beings" or something like that. Actually the Katakana probably sounds better, hahah.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah ... do you know if they have a "native name" for TFs?
"Chou robotto seimeitai" which translates as "Super robot life forms" - but the Transformers themselves are always called "Toransufoomaa."

[sanbot]

"Chou robotto seimeitai" which translates as "Super robot life forms" - but the Transformers themselves are always called "Toransufoomaa."

It seems so similar to the english way of saying transformer.

When watching the Headmaster series I've noticed a lot of the Japanese words sound very similar to their english equivalent.

Also why do they say toransufoom des? Whats the des bit about?

[GoktimusPrime]

It seems so similar to the english way of saying transformer.
That's because it is, but transliterated to Japanese phonetics. It's like saying that the English way of saying Karate (Kah-Rah-Tee) seems so similar to the Japanese way of saying it (Kah-Rah-Teh). ;)


When watching the Headmaster series I've noticed a lot of the Japanese words sound very similar to their english equivalent.
Yeah, languages flog words off each other all the time. English is probably the worst of them! One of the original authors of the Oxford Dictionary once described the English language as a stalker that follows other languages down dark pathways and robs them for vocabulary and grammar. ;)


Also why do they say toransufoom des? Whats the des bit about?
It's spelt "desu" (the 'u' is semi silent - a concept which doesn't exist in English (our phonemes are either voiced or silent but some Japanese phonemes are "semi-silent"). Basically it's like "is" "am" or "are."

Having said that, I don't recall ever hearing the word "desu" after "Toransufoomu"... unless it's "Toransufoomaa desu" which would mean "I/he/she/they is/am/are (a) Transformer(s)"

"Desu" is also an honourific form so it would be typically heard when one character is addressing someone of superior rank.

[sanbot]

Having said that, I don't recall ever hearing the word "desu" after "Toransufoomu"... unless it's "Toransufoomaa desu" which would mean "I/he/she/they is/am/are (a) Transformer(s)"

"Desu" is also an honourific form so it would be typically heard when one character is addressing someone of superior rank.

I'm pretty certain they say it when they are about to transform.

[GoktimusPrime]

Nah, they just say, "TORANSUFOOMU!" Unless they have a beast mode, in which case they'll say "HENSHIN!" :)

'Toransufoomu desu' means "I am a transform." Ich bin ein Transformer! :p

[Wheel-J]

"I am a transform."

- beast machines! :D

[GoktimusPrime]

What I mean is ... in Cantonese the translation is something like "shape changing metallic beings" or something like that. Actually the Katakana probably sounds better, hahah.
Yeah - my Super Link DVDs have the Kanji 変形金剛 which means something like, "Solid gold transformation." In Japanese it would be pronounced as へんけいきんごう (henkei kingou) and some Japanese fans are aware that this is the Chinese name for Transformers.

So how would you pronounce that in Chinese? I'm also curious to know how that would be pronounced in Korean, but I don't think anyone here speaks it. :(

I know from some of my Korean TF boxes and material that the Korean word for "Transformers" is 트랜스포머(tŭraensŭpomŏ). :)

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=133443#post133443)

Unless I'm mistaken the Latin word for "bread" is "panis" yet it appears as "panem" in the Lord's Prayer, thusly: Panem nostri quoti-dianum da nobis hodie; "Give us this day our daily bread."

Just out of curiosity, why? I know that certain words in Latin change according to the context in which they're used, as seen in this Monty Python Life of Brian scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI). ;) But I'm curious to know why panis becomes panem in that sentence.

Interestingly enough in the Japanese version of the Lord's Prayer this line is translated as 「我らの日用の糧を今日我らに与えたまえ」 ("warera no nichiyou no kate wo konnichi warera ni ataetamae") which means "Give us this day our daily food"; probably because bread isn't a staple food in Japan (possibly introduced to Japan by Spanish missionaries) and thus doesn't carry the same cultural connotation as it does in other cultures.

[Sam]

Yeah - my Super Link DVDs have the Kanji 変形金剛 which means something like, "Solid gold transformation." In Japanese it would be pronounced as へんけいきんごう (henkei kingou) and some Japanese fans are aware that this is the Chinese name for Transformers.

So how would you pronounce that in Chinese? I'm also curious to know how that would be pronounced in Korean, but I don't think anyone here speaks it. :(

In Cantonese, it's pronounced "Bin ying gum gong". In Mandarin, the pin yin would be "Bian xing jing gang".


From here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=133443#post133443)

Unless I'm mistaken the Latin word for "bread" is "panis" yet it appears as "panem" in the Lord's Prayer, thusly: Panem nostri quoti-dianum da nobis hodie; "Give us this day our daily bread."

Just out of curiosity, why? I know that certain words in Latin change according to the context in which they're used, as seen in this Monty Python Life of Brian scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI). ;) But I'm curious to know why panis becomes panem in that sentence.

Interestingly enough in the Japanese version of the Lord's Prayer this line is translated as 「我らの日用の糧を今日我らに与えたまえ」 ("warera no nichiyou no kate wo konnichi warera ni ataetamae") which means "Give us this day our daily food"; probably because bread isn't a staple food in Japan (possibly introduced to Japan by Spanish missionaries) and thus doesn't carry the same cultural connotation as it does in other cultures.

I am not sure if it's because bread in the context of the Lord's Prayer is plural. Not knowing Latin, I can't say for certain that "panem" is plural form of bread. I believe the French word for bread "pain" is derived from the Latin (and Japanese, if I am not mistaken? [pan]).

The meaning of "bread" in the Lord's Prayer actually refers to food (and not specifically "bread"), so I think you're right that the Japanese version translated it as food since it's contextualised.

[GoktimusPrime]

French is a Romance language, so I'm sure that "pain" would be derived from Latin "panis." The Japanese word for bread comes from Spanish, which is "pan" (written as パン in JP). I think this is where English got the word pantry from (again using the word "bread" as a reference to common provisions and not only bread).

[Sam]

French is a Romance language, so I'm sure that "pain" would be derived from Latin "panis." The Japanese word for bread comes from Spanish, which is "pan" (written as パン in JP). I think this is where English got the word pantry from (again using the word "bread" as a reference to common provisions and not only bread).

The wiki article for Latin states that the Romance languages are descended from Latin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin

Additionally, I think most European languages are descended from a proto-Indo-European language (this is why Sanskrit has many similarities / parallels to Latin).

If you're interested in the history of languages, check this book out: http://www.amazon.com/Speak-History-Languages-Tore-Janson/dp/0199263418

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's a funny video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV1zK8zRCPo) about language learning (or "unlearning" as the case may be :p).

Here's another funny one; "Do You Speak English? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cwWgxbqah0)" :)

Enjoy!

[SilverDragon]

Italian, mainly, though I've been trying to learn Scots Gaelic recently due to a fascination with my cultural background.

[GoktimusPrime]

Okay, I've been dabbling in Latin this week and I'd like to check to see if my translations are right...

"Optimus in terra mutatit." <-- I'm trying to say 'Optimus is transforming on Earth.'
"Mile in Pandora pugnit." <-- 'The soldier is fighting on Pandora.'

What is the plural for "mile"?

Also, what would be a better sounding translation for "Cybertron"? The fanboy in me wants to call it "Cybertronia" (after "Pax Cybertronia"), but I think "Cybertronium" might be more correct considering that the Romans called London "Londonium." But Cybertronium sounds too similar to "Cybertonium" (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cybertonium) -- and yeah, I dunno... "Cybertronia" just sounds cooler to me. :p Would "Cybertronia" be an plausible translation? (or would it be better to just call it "Cybertron"?)

Also... um... how do you say "transform to" something? Like maybe, "Waspinator transforms into a wasp"? -- 'Waspinator ??? vespa ??? mutatit ???'

[Firestorm]

Besides English I’d say I’m most fluent in Japanese but that is being very generous,
I studied Italian in primary school, but I don’t remember any of it
I somehow picked up some Spanish when I was younger but don’t remember anything from that either
And I studied Japanese for a few years in high school but I didn’t study hard enough so I don’t know as much as I should know
Just started a new Japanese course though so hopefully soon I can actually speak, read and write the language fully
Hey Goktimus, how would I say "I am horrible at Japanese" in Japanese? ooh and also "Help I can't understand what I am saying!"

[GoktimusPrime]

Hey Goktimus, how would I say "I am horrible at Japanese" in Japanese?
You can say either:
「私の日本語は下手です。」 = "My Japanese is hopeless."
Watashi no nihongo wa heta desu
or
「私の日本語は下手くそです。」 = "My Japanese is sh*t hopeless."
Watashi no nihongo wa hetakuso desu
;) :D


ooh and also "Help I can't understand what I am saying!"
「自分の話が分からないので、誰が手伝ってくれませんか。」
jibun no nihongo ga wakaranai node, darega tetsudattekuremasenka

------
More questions about Latin - would these translations be correct?
+ Mutato = I am transforming
+ Mutatis = You are transforming
+ Mutatit = S/he is transforming
+ Mutatant = They are transforming

Salva mea!

[Sky Shadow]

Okay, I've been dabbling in Latin this week and I'd like to check to see if my translations are right...

"Optimus in terra mutatit." <-- I'm trying to say 'Optimus is transforming on Earth.'
"Mile in Pandora pugnit." <-- 'The soldier is fighting on Pandora.'

What is the plural for "mile"?

Looks good to me. If it were more than one soldier it would be "Milites in Pandora pugnant."


Also, what would be a better sounding translation for "Cybertron"? The fanboy in me wants to call it "Cybertronia" (after "Pax Cybertronia"), but I think "Cybertronium" might be more correct considering that the Romans called London "Londonium." But Cybertronium sounds too similar to "Cybertonium" (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cybertonium) -- and yeah, I dunno... "Cybertronia" just sounds cooler to me. :p Would "Cybertronia" be an plausible translation? (or would it be better to just call it "Cybertron"?)

"Cybertronium" would make sense - it could be a second declension neuter noun. "Cybertronia" would also be fine if it's a first declension feminine planet, kind of like "Gaia".


Also... um... how do you say "transform to" something? Like maybe, "Waspinator transforms into a wasp"? -- 'Waspinator ??? vespa ??? mutatit ???'

Off the top of my head, probably "Waspinator in vespam mutat."

[GoktimusPrime]

Trying to translate some stuff into Latin here, and there are some parts where I think I've made some mistakes and would like someone to check for me.

1. I've translated "AllSpark" as "totus candeo", which literally means "all forge". Is this correct? Is there are better way to say this?

2. I've translated "our toys" as "crepundia nostrum," but I think I've used the incorrect declension. Should I be using the accusative form "crepundium nostrum"?

3. So to say "the toys we want," I've translated it as "Crepundia nostrum penuriam" <---using the accusative for "penuria" (need).

4. I've translated "toys we want" as "crepundia nos volo"

5. "succuro alius quisnam peto suum crepundia" <--- "help others who seek their toys"

6. "nobis quisnam contraho crepundia" <--- "for us who collect toys"

I really feel like I should be using the accusative form for 'toys' (crepundium) 2, 3 and 4. I cannot post the entire text here as it would be in contravention of board rules, but if anyone would like to view it and see how it all fits in and help me proof-read, then please LMK and I'll send you a copy via PM. This isn't an attempt to start a religious discussion even in PM, I just need someone to help me correct my Latin grammar. Thanks.

[GoktimusPrime]

10 Tips and Tricks to pick up any language (http://www.babbel.com/magazine/10-tips-from-an-expert?slc=engmag-a1-vid-bv1-tipsandtricks-tb&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral)

[Sinnertwin]

10 Tips and Tricks to pick up any language (http://www.babbel.com/magazine/10-tips-from-an-expert?slc=engmag-a1-vid-bv1-tipsandtricks-tb&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral)

I read that as 10 Tips and Tricks to pick up in any language.
Ooops.

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=19903&page=2)

Wow, google says it's a way of spelling Jail from the 18th century. Get with the times people. It's jail.
In American English, yes. But Standard English (including Australian English) traditionally spells it as "gaol." Some of us evidently still like to keep our English un-Americanised. ;)

But I personally prefer...
* Programme instead of program (unless I'm talking about software)
* Mould instead of mold
* licence instead of license (unless I'm using it as a verb)
* practise instead of practice (unless I'm using it as a noun)
* Latin based ~ise ending instead of Greek based ~ize ending (e.g. recognise, Americanise, theorise etc.)
* I only use the word "ass" if I'm talking about a donkey; if I'm talking about buttocks I use the word the word "sparse" minus the first two letters. ;)
* premiere instead of premier (unless I'm talking about a head of state)
* parlour instead of parlor

Just for fun: How Australian is your English? (quiz game) (http://www.playbuzz.com/goktimusprime10/australian-english-or-american-english) ;)

[gekisou]

Just for fun: How Australian is your English? (quiz game) (http://www.playbuzz.com/goktimusprime10/australian-english-or-american-english) ;)

Huh... evidently, my English is more American than Aussie... wtf?

[DELTAprime]

So that quiz says I'm more Aussie. But I use some American terms and some Aussie terms. Mostly my spelling is American except for the letter "u" in colour, mould, etc. It's just what you come across more often on the web and since I never learnt well in a classroom environment I failed English at both levels of school. As for Gaol I've never seen it spelt like that ever. Probably doesn't help that around here someone on the news doesn't get sent to Gaol or Jail, they get sent to a "Correctional Facility".

[Bidoofdude]

Mine was definitely Australian. I didn't use dunny, but I think that's about it.

[GoktimusPrime]

I didn't use dunny, but I think that's about it.
So do you use washables or disposables? :p ;) :p

[Bidoofdude]

So do you use washables or disposables? :p ;) :p

I use the toilet... ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

I use the toilet... ;)
Okay, I say "toilet" too, but given a choice between 'dunny' and 'bathroom,' I'd definitely take dunny. I've never ever referred to a toilet as "the bathroom," maybe unless the toilet itself was located inside a bathroom.

[Bidoofdude]

Okay, I say "toilet" too, but given a choice between 'dunny' and 'bathroom,' I'd definitely take dunny. I've never ever referred to a toilet as "the bathroom," maybe unless the toilet itself was located inside a bathroom.

Isn't the word 'toilet' taken as offensive in the US? I recall hearing that's why they say bathroom.

[Thurmus]

Hey GoktimusPrime,

My daughter is in Grade 3 next year. At her primary school, (public) they do Japanese. She enjoys learning it.

Are there an good books or CDs I could get her to help her?

I know they were also learning some of the writing this year and her teacher said she is going well but needs to practice.

Thanks in advance.

[GoktimusPrime]

Hi Thurmus,

Here are some tips:

+ Use flashcards to help her learn Hiragana. I recommend trying 1 or 2 sets at a time (e.g. あ(a) い(i) う(u) え(e) お(o) as one set, か(ka) き(ki) く(ku) け(ke) こ(ko) as the next set etc.). She should be able to sight read them pretty quickly in the first session; once that happens, reduce the amount of time that she has to look at each character before eliciting her to tell you what it says. e.g. show her the card for あ(a); give her 3 seconds before putting the card away and ask her to tell you what it is. Next time give her 2 seconds, then 1 second, then a fraction of a second. Shuffle the cards and repeat. This is why they're called 'flash' cards because you're visually "flashing" them before her eyes. :)

+ Play flash card games. Once you have gone through all of the sets, shuffle them and repeat the above process. You might also give her some simple Japanese words and ask her to form the words using the cards (which should be spread out in front of her in random order), e.g. you might say "sushi," and elicit her to find the flash cards for す(su) and し(shi) and place them in order. I've found that the use of flash cards helped my 5 year old daughter learn to read Hiragana really well (she reads with about 80% accuracy now). Here's a pretty good site for Hiragana flashcards that you can print out:
http://happylilac.net/hiragana-match.html
And there are other good printable Hiragana resources for children here:
http://happylilac.net/hiragana-h.html

+ Flash cards for sight words. This is something that I'm going to do with my daughter soon. It's similar to what they do in Kindy when they're learning to read with the high frequency words (e.g. this, that, he, she, was, were etc.).

+ As for books, I would just recommend reading children's books in Japanese. :) My daughter is currently read Frozen in Japanese (http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1106385809/). I'm not familiar with Japanese book stores in Melbourne. Amazon Japan does ship books internationally, and I think Kinokuniya (http://www.kinokuniya.com.au/) has online shopping. Japanese books can be somewhat expensive when purchased new (especially from import stores), but second hand stores are a LOT cheaper, but again, I don't know of any 2nd hand Japanese book stores in Melbourne. Also, 2nd hand stores have a more limited range. :o

[Bidoofdude]

I slacked off a lot in my first 5 years of Japanese (since Prep). I didn't bother learning all the hiragana until Grade 5. I'm pretty down pat now and I'm heading to Japan in September. Hopefully I can use some conversation skills.

(Planning to get TFs too though, and hopefully a Japanese Pokemon Emerald game with the Old Sea Map)

[GoktimusPrime]

Attempting to transcribe the lyrics for the Multilanguage version of Frozen's "Let It Go." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC83NA5tAGE) Please let me know if I've made any mistakes.

Anything changes made as per advice from others is marked in green. :)

-----------------------------------------------------------
(ENGLISH)
The snow glows white on the mountain tonight
Not a footprint to be seen
(FRENCH)
Un royaume de solitude
Ma place est là pour toujours
(GERMAN)
Der Wind, er heult so wie der Sturm
ganz tief in mir
(DUTCH)
Het werd mij te veel
hoe'k mijn best ook deed
(CHINESE, Mandarin)
别让他们进来看见 bié ràng tā men jìn lái kàn jiàn
做好女孩就像你的从前 zuò hǎo nǚ hái jiù xiàng nǐ de cóng qián
(SWEDISH)
Visa ingenting, vad du än gör,
allt är förstört!
(JAPANESE)
ありのままの姿を見せるのよ ari no mama no sugata miseru no yo
(SPANISH, Latin American)
Libre soy, libre soy, ¡libertad sin vuelta atrás!
(POLISH)
Wszystkim wbrew na ten gest mnie stać
(HUNGARIAN)
Jöjjön száz orkán, és közben a szívemen ül a jég
(SPANISH, Castilian)
Desde la distancia,
¡qué pequeño todo es!
(CATALAN)
I les pors que em dominaven
per sempre han fugit
(ITALIAN)
Non è un difetto, è una virtù
e non la fermerò mai più
(KOREAN)
내맘데로 자유롭게 살래 nae mamdaero jayulobgae sallae
(SERBIAN)
Сад је крај, сад је крај sad je kraj, sad je kraj
На крилима ветра сам na krilima vetra sam
(CHINESE, Cantonese)
誰亦要隨心歌 shui yik yiu tsui sum gor
忘掉昨天悲歌 mong diu jork tin bei gor
(PORTUGUESE)
Estou aqui, e vou ficar
Venha tempestade
(BAHASA MALAYSIA)
Kuasaku buat hidup bercelaru
(RUSSIAN)
Подвластны мне мороз и лёд, podvlastny mne moroz i lёd,
ну что за дивный дар nu čto za divnyj dar
(DANISH)
Og som krystaller star
en tanke ganske klar
(BULGARIAN)
Ще спра да бъда аз shte spra da bada az
на миналото плен na minaloto v plen
(NORWEGIAN)
La den gå, la den gå
Jeg skal stige lik solen nå
(THAI)
ปล่อยออกมา เลิกซ่อนเร้น pl̀xy xxk mā leik s̀xn rên
เด็กดี ไม่เห็นมีค่า dĕk dī mị̀ h̄ĕn mī kh̀ā
(FRENCH, Canadian)
Je suis là, comme je l'ai rêvé
(FLEMISH)
En de storm raast door...
De vrieskou, daar zat ik toch al niet mee

[GoktimusPrime]

I was talking to a Year 7 class today about language dominance shift -- which is what can happen if someone stops speaking a language for a long time and/or vigorously speaks a new language in a sustained manner. Obviously people can become more fluent in a language w/ continual practice, but they can also become less fluent in a language if they reduce or stop practising it.

Here's an example: Barack Obama vs Kevin Rudd (note: this is NOT a political discussion, I'm purely using two public figures to demonstrate the acquisition and deterioration of language; please do not deviate from this focus)

Barack Obama
As a young boy, Obama moved to Indonesia with his mother and step-father where he lived for several years of his childhood, and attended a local school. As a result, he learnt to speak Bahasa Indonesia. Forty years later, Obama returned to Indonesia, however his Indonesian only appears to be partially conversant. In this short excerpt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_6L96bjmYE) of Obama's 2011 speech at the University of Indonesia, we can see that Obama is predominantly speaking in English, with a few Indonesian sentences and words here and there. Presumably Obama may not have spoken much Indonesian (if at all) since moving out of Indonesia, thus the deterioration of this proficiency in that language may likely be a result of those decades of disuse. Compare this with...

Kevin Rudd
Learnt to speak Mandarin Chinese as a university student, so he was already a young adult -- and learning a language in adulthood is considerably harder than in childhood. Then of course, Rudd went on to live and work in China. It is widely known that Rudd is perfectly fluent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bro4mkb_VKc) in Chinese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLOV-SMOpto).

[Spiritprime]

Well, not very good at speaking the language directly, but I can type and understand some Swedish words and make a sentence or two because I have a friend who teaches me. The language is so much fun!

Even know a tinsy bit of japanese and italian as well, but again... not good at speaking them.

[GoktimusPrime]

I find just having conversations with fluent speakers of a language really helps to improve one's own proficiency. Although being able to read/write is also extremely useful too. :)

Swedish: Jag hav svalde mina nycklar til bilen
Italian: Ho ingoiato le chiavi della mia macchina
Japanese: 車の鍵を飲み込みました

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=467452&postcount=31):

what's latin for KAPOWWW!? :)

My guess is that there isn't one. The Romans didn't exactly have comic books. :) Also, some onomatopoeic words in Latin (or any language) can differ quite drastically from English. e.g. "Eheu!" is Latin for "Oww!" There are certain words which simply don't exist in Latin, because the Romans never had a concept of it.

e.g.
* Volcano. When Mt. Vesuvius erupted, the people of Pompeii, Herculaneum and other nearby cities were absolutely astounded. Their language literally lacked a word to describe the phenomenon. Admiral Gaius Plinius Secundus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_Elder), who was also a keen naturalist, was amazed by the eruption and wanted to observe it up close. He took his naval fleet on an attempted rescue mission (and was subsequently killed). But people could only describe it as the "fire mountain."
* Latin lacks a word of 'adventure.' I was once attempting to translate a motto which had the word 'adventure' in it, but it wasn't possible to do a direct translation since the Romans had no concept of this. So I translated it as "thrill" (alacritas). :o

Conversely there are many words or concepts that exist in other languages which doesn't exist in English.
e.g.
* おととい (ototoi) [Japanese] = The day before yesterday
* abbiocco [Italian] = drowsiness experienced after eating a heavy meal
* Verschlimmbessern [German] = to try to improve something but actually make it worse

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=467556&postcount=33):

They didn't have onomatopoeia?!:eek:
They did, but I'm not familiar with too many of them. I'm just guessing that Latin wouldn't contain as many onomatopoeia as English, but I don't know for sure. :o English certainly doesn't contain as many onomatopoeia as Japanese (ビックン!※) Onomatopoeia is a Greek word. The Romans called it fictio nomĭnis ("word/name making"). A few examples of fictio nomĭnum include:
* baubor = 'woof woof,' 'bow wow'
* bee = 'baa' (sheep, goats bleating)
* bua = the sound of an infant asking for a drink
* bubo = 'hoot hoot' (owl)
* cachinno = cackling
* cocococo = 'cockle-doodle-doo'
* crocio = 'croak croak,' 'ribbit' (frogs/toads)
* flo = blowing sound
* glut glut = gurgling noise
* hahae/hahahae = 'ha ha'/'ha ha ha'
* hinnio = horse noise ('neighing'); not to be confused with hoarse noise
* minnurio = cooing noise
* raucus = hoarse noise; not to be confused with horse noise
* papa = sound of an infant asking for food
* stloppus = 'slap'
* susurrus = sound of whispering
* tax = 'whack,' 'crack,' 'smack' <---possibly the nearest match for 'KAPOW!'
* tinnio = ringing or jingling sound
* zinzala = 'buzz' (insect buzzing)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
※ bikkun! The sound of feeling surprised ;)

[CHILENO20]

Speak, read & write spanish 😊

[GoktimusPrime]

Speak, read & write spanish ��
Muy bueno, amigo! :)

For anyone wanting to brush up on their Huttese: ;)
http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=470204&postcount=20

[CHILENO20]

Muy bueno, amigo! :)

For anyone wanting to brush up on their Huttese: ;)
http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=470204&postcount=20

Gracias Gok :D

[GoktimusPrime]

I tend to hear a lot of people mangling the pronunciation of German words around September (re: Oktoberfest time), and generally when trying to pronounce names and words from other Germanic languages. Somewhat ironic considering that English is a Germanic language too, but whatever. Anyway, here are a few words/names that I hear being mispronounced, along with a guide on how to pronounce it correctly.

For some reason, some English speakers have a tendency to ignore accent marks such as umlauts. Dön't! I mean, don't! ;) Note that pronunciation guides are approximations. See the IPA spellings in brackets for the technically correct pronunciation.

Mjölnir (/ˈmjɒlnɪər/)
Aahhh, Thor's mighty hammer. This is pronounced as "mee'yurl-near," not "mee'yoll-nur." Be mindful that the "-ir" is pronounced as "ear," and not as "err"; similar to Mithrandir (/ˈmɪθrændɪər/; the Elvish name for Gandalf), which is pronounced as "Meeth-ran-dear."

Löwenbräu (/ˈlɜrvənbrɔɪ/)
A famous German brewery in Munich, and also the first part of the name of a famous Bavarian restaurant in Sydney (Löwenbräu Keller). Every year I hear people talking about the Löwenbräu Keller and referring to it as the "Low-wen-brow." <shudder> It's not. You say, "Ler-vern-broy."

Möbius (/ˈmɜrbiəs/)
I sometimes hear people say "MOH-bee-us," but it's "MER-bee-us." Ad infinitum. ;)

Gestalt (/ɡəˈʃtalt/)
A word which has been widely used by Transformers fans since 1994 to describe Combiner team robots. I've heard it pronounced as "Guess-stollt" to "Jess-stollt." A more accurate approximation is "Guh-shtah'lt."

Ikea (ɪˈkeːˈa)
A lot of people say "Eye-kee'yah," but the correct pronunciation is "Ee-keh-ah." This is how it's pronounced in Japanese (イケア). Having said that, a lot of native Swedish speakers frequently mispronounce it as "Ee-kee-ah," but "Ee-keh-ah" is technically more correct because it's an acronym which stands for Ingvar Kamprad Elmtaryd Agunnaryd. The mispronunciation by Swedes is likely because Ikea is typically spelt without an accent mark on the "e." It used to be spelt with one (Möbel-IKÉA), but it's since lost the accent mark, and so there's been a vowel shift from é (eh) to e (ee), even among Swedish speakers.

Ægir/Ägir /ˈægɪər/
The Norse god of the sea. I frequently hear it being mispronounced as "Ey-Gar," but it's actually "Ag-gear."

Many words and names from Middle Earth are based on Germanic pronunciation, which is not surprising considering that Tolkien was a Germanic linguist. And so we have...

Smaug (/smaʊg/)
The "au" is pronounced as in the word "Audi," and not as in the word "naughty." So it's "SmOWg," not "SmORg." Things have gotten a lot better since the Hobbit films came out, but before then, I encountered a lot of people who'd pronounce it as "SmORg." I used to teach The Hobbit as an English text, and students were often reading it as "SmORg," no matter how many times I'd tell them at it's "SmOWg." It's also the same as the "au" as in "Sauron," which of course is pronounced, "SOW-ron," and not "SAW-ron."

Beorn (/bɛɔʀn/)
"BEH-orn," and not "BEE-orn." This is actually an Old English name (not all words and languages in Middle Earth were inventions of Tolkien -- the Rohirrim language is actually just Old English!).

Gandalf (/gɑn.dɑlf/)
The A's are pronounced as in the word "father," and not as in "apple." Thus you say, "Gun-dulf," not "Gan-dalf." Sir Ian McKellen actually pronounces it correctly as "Gun-dulf," and even made a point of it in one of the DVD special features interviews. :) It comes from the Old Norse word "Gandalv," which means magic wand or staff. Some people argue that it should be pronounced as "Gun-dulv," in keeping with its Norse origins, but Tolkien himself pronounced it as "Gun-dulf," thus making that pronunciation canonically official.

[CHILENO20]

[QUOTE=GoktimusPrime;470817]

Gestalt (/ɡəˈʃtalt/)
A word which has been widely used by Transformers fans since 1994 to describe Combiner team robots. I've heard it pronounced as "Guess-stollt" to "Jess-stollt." A more accurate approximation is "Guh-shtah'lt."

[QUOTE]

Hooray! I knew I was always pronouncing it wrong! My best mate & me always pronouced it "gee-salts" completely missing the "t" LOL. Great work Gok :D

[Akky82]

Speak, read, and write some mandarin, speak a little japanese (not like fanboi), trying like hell to learn Toisan on my own.

Toisan is a dialect (southern cantonese) from Taishan, my wife and all her family speak it, the only references i have are a pdf of a handbook for US soldiers to learn from like 1947 or something, and some drills to get sounds right. I'm trying to learn on my own to surprise my wife, as sometimes the language barrier is still there (she's been here 4.5 years but speaks mostly toisan to her family and friends, mandarin to a few other friends, and cantonese to workmates). It's not some kind of 'i wanna learn to see what they say about me', i'm very good at reading body language and can often tell what they're talking about, which has led them to believe i can already understan a bit, and her mother has given up trying to speak to me in english because she thinks i can understand already (despite all of us trying to tell her different).

You might say "but you know some mandarin, and so does she", but honestly she's from the south, it'd be easier to speak english than me improve my mandarin, because hers isnt that great anyway (self admitted).

[GoktimusPrime]

An oldie but a goldie:
How German sounds compared to other languages (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlATOHGj9EY) :D
I've shown this to my German speaking friends/colleagues and they all think it's accurately hilarious. :)

[unicronsblood]

English is my first language but am fluent in Indonesia bahasa. Siapa saja disini yang bisa berbahasa indonesia? (Anyone else speaking indonesian? ) :)

[GoktimusPrime]

I tried learning Indonesian once, and I failed miserably at it. :eek: :o

Barack Obama used to be able to speak Indonesian, however whenever I see videos of him speaking it, it appears to be virtually non existent. He can manage to say a few words and phrases, but unable to actually sustain a conversation. And this isn't unusual -- languages are not like a riding a bicycle, it can and will be forgotten if it's not practised/maintained. Obama probably hasn't used it in his adult life. This is quite different from say Kevin Rudd's Chinese which is highly fluent since he's continued to maintain it. :)

Obama speaking limited Indonesian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_6L96bjmYE)
Rudd speaking fluent Mandarin Chinese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bro4mkb_VKc)

[unicronsblood]

[QUOTE=GoktimusPrime;475197]I tried learning Indonesian once, and I failed miserably at it. :eek: :o

It is painfully hard to learn, especially the slang, fortunately my wife is indonesian so she always corrects me :D
Your right, Barack Obama sounds a little rusty at it...:p

[GoktimusPrime]

Postman Pat theme in Norwegian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8_Pi30wSuw)

Postmann Pat, Postmann Pat
med sin svarte og hvite katt.
Alltid tidlig ute
på sin postmanns rute
har han all posten med seg i sin bil.

Postmann Pat, Postmann Pat
Med sin svarte og hvite katt
Pat skal kjøre bil, han
Og det er med et smil han
drar avsted i sin bil med dagens post

Alle mennsker kjenner bilen hans
små og store smiler når han vinker til dem
noen lyder kjenner de godt
så som bank, ring da har han post til deg

Postman Pat, Postmann Pat
med sin svarte og hvite katt
alltid tidlig ute
på sin postmanns rute
har han all posten med seg i sin bil
har han all posten med seg i sin bil

[shockNwave]

I speak Italian at home. Northern dialect from the Friuli region. Both my parents are Italian.

[GoktimusPrime]

The English language often reminds me of the Borg. Or the Cybermen. :p ;)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/meme_englishborg_zpsgz8h8nol.jpg

[liegeprime]

it's a funny thing coz Philippines was under Spanish rule for almost 400 years the Filipino official language - Pilipino which is mainly Tagalog mixed with a whole lot of other words from the various dialects within the country is also riddled with Spanish words.

I have a Spanish colleague and she was the other day cursing incessantly (albeit a little quietly to herself) because she was getting frustrated with all the alarms and wotnot happening to her dialysis machine and wasn't being cooperative at all making the shift very busy and toxic.

When she stepped out of the room I told her I understood every curse word she was letting fly :p:p:D she was abit embarrassed and thought no one around understood. I told her, no worries we all do it when were frustrated to the limit, she wasn't shouting it around anyways and just cursing - muttering to herself while figuring out what's wrong why all the alarms on the stupid machine hehehehhe

I watched that video (german) Gok. It got me thinking is there a softer way of saying the word in German though, it's like the words are arranged that you have to speak it like you're angry or something... but you're not. :o:o

[GoktimusPrime]

Are you talking about the "What German sounds like compared to other languages" video? If so, then the German speaker is deliberately putting on an angry voice for comic effect, but I've been told by my fluent and native speaking German friends that his pronunciation is perfect (and indeed, they find the video hilarious ;)).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xmas is a time when a lot of people like to think and talk about Elves... so I'm thinking about greeting everyone with Isusarad ‘elir, which is "merry xmas" in Elvish. :p

[DELTAprime]

Question for the people here that are fluent in Japanese.

As a native English speaker that only knows English I have real trouble understanding most of the people from Japan that Sony and Nintendo put on stage for their press events because they are native Japanese speakers and often have terrible English.

I'm wondering if the same thing happens when a native Japanese speaker is listening to native English speaker speak Japanese? I watched this video of Andrew House (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=annuTcmB1rw) from Sony who is British talking about Hideo Kojima joining Sony and all I could think was "can anyone in Japan understand what he is saying?".

So yeah, when a native English speaker speaks Japanese is it as unintelligible as when some Japanese speakers speak English?

[GoktimusPrime]

The Brit in that video speaks Japanese fluently, so it's easy for native speakers to understand him. He does have an English accent, but it doesn't impede with his ability to be understood (after all, even native speakers have accents).

If you're bad at speaking a language, then people are going to have a hard time understanding you -- doesn't matter if it's English, Japanese, French, German, Latin or Klingon. ;) So yeah, a person who speaks terrible Japanese would be just as unintelligible to Japonophones as a terrible English speaker would be to Anglophones.

[GoktimusPrime]

bonum diem natalis Jesu

google translate say merry Christmas in latin


Have a great Chrissie
NEVER rely on Google Translate!!!

Here is what I consider to be a better translation:
fēlīcem diem nātīvitātis (say "feh-lee-khem dee-em nah-tee-vee-tah-tiss")
It means "happy day of (a/the) birth." But it could be something that you might say to a woman as she's about to go into labour. :p

Here's a break down of what each word means:
fēlīcem; (say "feh-lee-kem") accusative singular case of fēlīx (say "feh-lix"), meaning "happy," "lucky," or "blessed." The Anglophone names Felix and Felicity are derived from this word.
diem; (say "dee-em") accusative singular case of diēs (say "dee-ess"), which means "day." "Meridiem"* means "midday," and in English we still use the Latin words for 'before midday' (ante※ meridiem = a.m.) and 'after midday' (post☆ meridiem = p.m.). And of course, many people are familiar with the Latin phrase "carpe diem" ('seize the day').
nātīvitātis; (say "nah-tee-vee-tah-tiss") genitive singular case of nātīvitās, meaning "birth." This is just the general word for "birth," as in either a birth or the birth of someone. nātīvitātis is where English obviously gets the word "Nativity" from.

The word "Christmas" is a combination of Greek (Christ; from Χριστός) and Latin (mass; derived from the Latin word missa★. The word "Christmas" first appeared in English around the 11th-12th Centuries, some five to six hundred years after the fall of Rome. Thus Latin doesn't actually have a word for "Christmas." The nearest cultural equivalent would be sol invictus, the Roman celebration of the Unconquered Sun on December 25. Early Christians actually celebrated Christmas on the 25th of March, thus it fell close to their celebration of the Passion (forerunner to Easter), however it was moved to December when the Romans adopted Christianity (re: Constantine) and assimilated Roman religious practices. So the nearest socio-cultural equivalent to "Merry Christmas" in Latin would be FELIX DIES NATALIS SOLIS INVICTI (say "feh-lix dee-ess sol-iss in-wik-tee"), which means "happy birthday to the Unconquered Sun."

-------------------------
*meridiem; (say "meh-riddee-em")
※ante; (say "un-teh")
☆post; rhymes with "lost," and not with "host."
Also note that Latin has a slightly trilled /r/, similar to what you will find in Romance languages like Italian and Spanish, and not like the 'mushed' /r/ in English (or "postalveolar approximant" if you want to get phonologically technical ;)).

★Many languages still use the original Latin word for 'mass' (missa), including Japanese (ミッサ;missa), and the word for Christ is more closer to the Greek pronunciation (キリスト;kirisuto), although the Japanese word for "Christmas" (クリスマス;kurisumasu) is taken from English. Thus the meaning and origins of the word are not as immediately obvious in Japanese.

[GoktimusPrime]

Talk about being massively lost in translation; Star Wars' Duel of the Fates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK1NeoKgNDs) is based on a Welsh poem known as Battle of the Trees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cad_Goddeu). The words to this poem was loosely translated into the Classical Indian language Sanskrit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit), and then that translation was then rearranged to form the words for Duel of the Fates. However, the words were really chosen for their sounds and not their meanings, so when you translate it back from Sanskrit to English, you can see that the meaning has been severely warped. This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilSqBCx4ygU) plays Duel of the Fates with lyrics in Sanskrit and translated to English, and the English is pretty nonsensical.

But this is nothing new to Star Wars. Previously we've had:
* Rodese (Rodian language, as spoken by Greedo); a simplified form of Quechua (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quechuan_languages)
* Sullustan (as spoken by Nien Nunb); Haya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haya_language), a regional Tanzanian language. I don't know how much similarity it has with Swahili though.
* Ryl (Twi'lek language, as spoken by Oola); French! As Jabba yanks her chain towards the Rancor trap door, she cries, "Non, ne me tuez pas!" ('No, don't kill me!').
* Ewokese; the Kalmyk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmyk_Oirat) language; although it's a Russian language, apparently it bears striking similarities with Mongolian. I have had Mongolian speaking friends tell me that they can understand bits of Ewokese, so there does appear to be some level of mutual intelligibility.

And of course, Galactic Basic = Modern English. :o However, not all languages in Star Wars are represented by real life languages. Some languages are constructed; AFAIK languages like Huttese and Mandalorian (we briefly hear Jango speak it to Boba Fett) were constructed for the films.

Star Wars Force Awakens Language "Spoilers" Ahead: There is no discussion about the actual plot/story of the movie, but for anyone who's avoiding absolutely everything about the movie until they see it, feel free to stop reading now.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/meme_spoilers_riversong_zps3g8qve9u.gif

Star Wars The Force Awakens also introduces a few new languages. One of the first that we encounter is the language spoken by some of the inhabitants of Jakku, and Rey is also able to speak this language too. I have no idea if this language is based on a real world language or if it was constructed for the movie. I suspect that the members of Kanjiklub (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kanjiklub) are actually speaking in Bahasa Indonesia (or possibly another Indonesian language). Can anyone confirm this?

[Sunsurge]

I speak a little bit of Other at home. Not fluent by any stretch, but my other half takes great delight in teasing me when I make a mistake.

[GoktimusPrime]

fēlīcem diem nātīvitātis (say "feh-lee-khem dee-em nah-tee-vee-tah-tiss")
Correction: nātīvitātis = "nah-tee-WEE-tah-tiss."

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=505472#post505472):

羊 in Chinese is a generic term for caprids. It can be both. And the Chinese zodiac is the same which does not really specify whether it's sheep or goat. Try googling a picture of say “Chinese zodiac 2015” you'll find all sorts of caprids.:D
Heh, even when I Google Image 未年 (Year of the Caprid), I get images of both sheep and goats! Also, you'll notice that the Kanji for Caprid in the compound for Year of the Caprid is 未, and not 羊 (hitsuji) or 山羊 (yagi). 未 on its own means "not yet," as in words like:
未来 (mirai) = "future", lit. "(events which have) not yet come (to pass)"
未成年 (miseinen) = "minor" (as in a person under age). lit. "not yet become years (i.e. come of age)"
But in the context of the Lunar Zodiac, 未 refers to the '8/12 heavenly branch,' which is the caprid.

It doesn't surprise me that while 羊 semantically means "sheep," it may also be synonymous with goats or just any kind of caprid. As I mentioned before, while 猿 (saru) semantically means "monkey," it can also be used to generically refer to any kind of non-human primate, thus apes can also be included (which is why 孫悟空 (Son Gokuu) (http://s1.dmcdn.net/ApiwW/526x297-Ih0.jpg) is often portrayed as a tailless ape (https://indigoeuphoric.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/monkey-magic.jpg) as well as a tailed monkey (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6EQJVUqh9hk/S_LXB4T60QI/AAAAAAAAAgA/1CFPLLqmAkc/s1600/monkey-king-IIIa.png). Then there's Dragonball which just gave us tailed apes (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100612151105/dragonball/images/2/2f/GohanGreatApeSaiyansSagaK01.png), but they're aliens (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cp1hBZkoH3Y/VUkjR16dPNI/AAAAAAAAepE/mPlEbeSv2sA/w426-h284/Call%2Bthe%2Bsquad.gif), so that's okay. :D)

[doublespy]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=505472#post505472):

Heh, even when I Google Image 未年 (Year of the Caprid), I get images of both sheep and goats! Also, you'll notice that the Kanji for Caprid in the compound for Year of the Caprid is 未, and not 羊 (hitsuji) or 山羊 (yagi). 未 on its own means "not yet," as in words like:
未来 (mirai) = "future", lit. "(events which have) not yet come (to pass)"
未成年 (miseinen) = "minor" (as in a person under age). lit. "not yet become years (i.e. come of age)"
But in the context of the Lunar Zodiac, 未 refers to the '8/12 heavenly branch,' which is the caprid.

It doesn't surprise me that while 羊 semantically means "sheep," it may also be synonymous with goats or just any kind of caprid. As I mentioned before, while 猿 (saru) semantically means "monkey," it can also be used to generically refer to any kind of non-human primate, thus apes can also be included (which is why 孫悟空 (Son Gokuu) (http://s1.dmcdn.net/ApiwW/526x297-Ih0.jpg) is often portrayed as a tailless ape (https://indigoeuphoric.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/monkey-magic.jpg) as well as a tailed monkey (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6EQJVUqh9hk/S_LXB4T60QI/AAAAAAAAAgA/1CFPLLqmAkc/s1600/monkey-king-IIIa.png). Then there's Dragonball which just gave us tailed apes (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100612151105/dragonball/images/2/2f/GohanGreatApeSaiyansSagaK01.png), but they're aliens (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cp1hBZkoH3Y/VUkjR16dPNI/AAAAAAAAepE/mPlEbeSv2sA/w426-h284/Call%2Bthe%2Bsquad.gif), so that's okay. :D)

Very informative. I'm a native Chinese (mandarin) speaker, so I understand you perfectly and it's always interesting to see the difference between the Japanese Kanji and Chinese Hanzi when there is.

Btw, Sun Wukong (Son Goku in Japanese) has always been portrayed with tail in Chinese literature and folk lore. In fact it's one of his weaknesses. He can change to 72 different forms (a bit like early concept TFA Blitzwing :p), but always can't hide his tail that well.
Check out this google doodle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx_bv2xItj8) paying tribute to the fantastic animated film Havoc in Heaven. The letter "G" is when Wukong changes to a temple but can't hide his tail:D

[GoktimusPrime]

There's a meme that keeps doing the rounds claiming that in an old Marvel comic book, Iron Man tells Captain America that he needs some "solid (Richard)" from him and that this is an archaic English expression for "straight talk."

This is complete rubbish. (http://www.dorkly.com/post/58891/3-viral-geek-rumors-that-were-total-bullshit)

#themoreyouknow

[GoktimusPrime]

Came across this video of Mark Zuckerberg speaking Chinese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xpdhbh_2Rc). :) Of course the irony here is that Facebook is banned in China. :o

[Jetfire in the sky]

Came across this video of Mark Zuckerberg speaking Chinese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xpdhbh_2Rc). :) Of course the irony here is that Facebook is banned in China. :o


Google is too, but I think that has more to do with revenue not being paid where it should be, something other nations should look at imho.

[GoktimusPrime]

Trying to develop a unit of work for a Year 8 German immersive class, but I've hit a brick wall on two words. I need help from anyone who can speak German better than me (which isn't hard, because I don't speak German -- I only have an extremely basic level of knowledge) :p The teacher who will be delivering this lesson is a fluent speaker, but because I initially developed this lesson in Japanese, I've modified it for German. My colleague is in the process of correcting my lousy Google translations, but even she got stumped on these two words, so let's see if anyone here can help. :)

1: "Push." Imagine a Transformer toy standing on your shelf. The toy is pushing down on the shelf, thanks to its weight. The shelf, bearing the weight of this toy, is similarly pushing up. What is the most appropriate German translation for this word or concept? I initially thought of using the word "drücken," but my colleague said that this means push as in someone actively shoving someone or something, whereas the concept we're looking at is more passive. The other word that we thought of was "schieben," but this is push as in pressing something, like pressing a stamp or pressing letters onto paper (e.g. printing press). Still feels to active for what we're looking for.

2: "Inertia." I initially went with Trägheit, but my colleague said that this means to be inactive or lethargic, which is pretty much what inert means. And indeed, the word 'inertia' is Latin for inactivity or indolence. But I suspect that this may very well be the German word for inertia. The German Wikipedia page (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%C3%A4gheit) calls it Trägheit, and to be fair, Wikipedia can be pretty reliable on common knowledge (it tends to suck more on lesser known or more obscure topics).

Help?

[GoktimusPrime]

Continued from here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=514269#post514269):

Obviously on a mate to mate level there ;) Don't worry their e-mail to me to say the item was cancelled started with Dear Minh, and yet strangely I have no Vietnamese heritage whatsoever and it's not my F-ing NAME!!!
The weird thing I find about that form of address is how they've used his surname, but failed to have a title in front of it, like "Mr." :eek: I can't tell if they're trying to be formal or informal. :confused:

Mind you, I find that this is an increasingly popular trend. There are some medical centres that I've been too where they refer to doctors as "Dr. [given name]." :eek: Okay, if you want to address someone as "Doctor," then it needs to be attached to their surname. If you want to be more buddy-buddy and refer to them by their given name, then dispense with the title of "Doctor." If there's a Dr. Curt Connors, then either call him "Curt" or "Doctor Connors." Calling him "Doctor Curt" just sounds stupid (IMHO). :rolleyes:

Imagine if students started doing that with their teachers. If there's a teacher called Mr. John Citizen, you'd either call him "John" (as tertiary students would), or "Mr. Citizen" (as school students would). Who would call him "Mr. John"?!? :confused:

And every Australian Karate Dojo that I've been too commits an even greater word crime (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc). So if there's an instructor called "Daniel Larusso (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ralph_Macchio)," they call him "Sensei Daniel." This is wrong on two levels:
1/ Japanese titles come after the name, never before it. This is why Mr. Miyagi always called Daniel "Daniel-san," and not "San-Daniel"!
2/ Just as in English, honorific titles are only meant to be used with surnames, not given names. So it should be "Larusso-Sensei," not "Daniel-Sensei," and never "Sensei Daniel" or "Sensei Larusso." This would be the equivalent of saying, "Daniel Mister" in English.
This wanton linguistic butchering just waxes me off (https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnkRFODxk0vIfIc/giphy.gif)!

This is a typical conversation that occurs when I visit some medical centres...
"Which doctors are available today?"
"You can see Doctor Curt, Doctor John or Doctor Daniel."
"I'll see Doctor Larusso please."
"Doctor Daniel?"
"Yes, Doctor Larusso please."
To me, I prefer referring to Doctors by their title with surname as it's a form of respect. But I don't object to people referring to Doctors by their first name either -- Australia is an egalitarian society after all. But if you're going to do that, then just refer to them by their given name. I don't see the point of trying to show respect by using the title on one hand, but then trying to be egalitarian by using their given name on the other. Either use one form of address or the other. As Master Yoda (or just "Yoda") would say, "Do or do not. There is no try."

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Mind you, I find that this is an increasingly popular trend. There are some medical centres that I've been too where they refer to doctors as "Dr. [given name]." :eek: Okay, if you want to address someone as "Doctor," then it needs to be attached to their surname. If you want to be more buddy-buddy and refer to them by their given name, then dispense with the title of "Doctor." If there's a Dr. Curt Connors, then either call him "Curt" or "Doctor Connors." Calling him "Doctor Curt" just sounds stupid (IMHO). :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlmECL2ED2I

[GoktimusPrime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlmECL2ED2I
I like the cut of his jib (https://i.imgur.com/qrupWrK.jpg). :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Yu Ming is Ainm Dom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqYtG9BNhfM); a brilliant short film which I would strongly recommend to anyone with Irish heritage. :) It also stars the late Frank Kelly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Kelly) as "Old Paddy."

[GoktimusPrime]

A humorous video showing an American English, Japanese, Korean and Chinese speaker attempting to pronounce the same set of words. :D The Chinese words are especially hilarious (to me anyway :p). ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jMddKVDwUU

[GoktimusPrime]

https://www.facebook.com/daebbuing/videos/584028325037488/
^This is an excellent video which makes an excellent point about people living overseas who seem to fail at acquiring the local language due to a lack of effort or even refusal to want to learn. This guy (Dave) makes an excellent point. No matter what country you live in, people should make an EFFORT to speak the local language. It also baffles me when I meet people who've lived in Japan for longer than I did and are unable to sustain a conversation in Japanese. I lived in Japan for only 10 months, yet in that limited time, I was able to acquire enough Japanese to allow me to hold conversations (as well as teach (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=512536&postcount=646), translate (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=22102) and transmit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BidSFwvDFCU) the language). But it never ceases to amaze me when I come across people who've lived in Japan for over a year --- years --- who are unable to really speak Japanese. :eek:

And I encountered a lot of these people when I was living in Japan, including one person from Australia who arrived in Japan the same time as me and another Aussie (there were 3 of us on the same exchange programme). Two of us became fluent in Japanese while one did not because she kept on speaking English all the time, while the other bloke and I deliberately avoided using English and maximised our usage of Japanese. We even spoke to each other and other Anglophones in Japanese, except this one girl because she refused to, and when we tried to speak to her in Japanese she said, "Why are you guys speaking in Japanese?" and told us to speak to her in English. :rolleyes:

[Bladestorm]

I agree whole-heartedly with this.
I'm not "fluent" in Cantonese - but I try. I'm not good with languages and working with 9 tones can be a real challenge - but I try. Hong Kong locals appreciate it and often are quite shocked but delighted when you do make an effort and a little gesture goes a long way. Some are horrified (especially those who use racial slurs in front of me only to realise I understand they are talking about the "fat white foreigner").
Unfortunately expats not learning any of the language here in Hong Kong is often the norm too.
I have acquaintances who have lived in Hong Kong for almost 20 years who don't even know how to say "thank you" in anything other than English and I find that absolutely mind boggling and a little rude/ignorant. They want their lifestyle but they don't want to be part of the culture. My daughter has class mates who despite being required to attend 45 minutes of Mandarin 5 days a week as part of the school curriculum will tell you they only speak one language - English. They don't want to learn Mandarin, don't TRY to learn and their parents don't see it as relevant or important and are happy to not have their kids do the homework or try to progress.

Personally I will encourage my daughter with whatever languages she has exposure to - currently English, Cantonese, Mandarin and Spanish because it will make the world much more accessible to her. She doesn't always enjoy the learning but can't complain when she sees mum trying to speak the local lingo too.

Ironically recently when we visited Japan for a 5 day holiday we learnt a few words (hello, thank you, numbers) and my son wants to learn MORE Japanese (which unfortunately isn't offered at the school he attends unless you are a native level speaker). He's grown up being immersed in languages all his life and I can't help but wonder if that mentality has made him more open to the idea of learning language.



https://www.facebook.com/daebbuing/videos/584028325037488/
^This is an excellent video which makes an excellent point about people living overseas who seem to fail at acquiring the local language due to a lack of effort or even refusal to want to learn. This guy (Dave) makes an excellent point. No matter what country you live in, people should make an EFFORT to speak the local language. It also baffles me when I meet people who've lived in Japan for longer than I did and are unable to sustain a conversation in Japanese. I lived in Japan for only 10 months, yet in that limited time, I was able to acquire enough Japanese to allow me to hold conversations (as well as teach (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=512536&postcount=646), translate (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=22102) and transmit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BidSFwvDFCU) the language). But it never ceases to amaze me when I come across people who've lived in Japan for over a year --- years --- who are unable to really speak Japanese. :eek:

And I encountered a lot of these people when I was living in Japan, including one person from Australia who arrived in Japan the same time as me and another Aussie (there were 3 of us on the same exchange programme). Two of us became fluent in Japanese while one did not because she kept on speaking English all the time, while the other bloke and I deliberately avoided using English and maximised our usage of Japanese. We even spoke to each other and other Anglophones in Japanese, except this one girl because she refused to, and when we tried to speak to her in Japanese she said, "Why are you guys speaking in Japanese?" and told us to speak to her in English. :rolleyes:

[GoktimusPrime]

"Fluent" doesn't mean flawless native command. It means being able to communicate with relative ease or readiness. IMO achieving fluency in a language means that - in most everyday situations - you can communicate in the target language without needing to hesitate. Because often those moments of hesitation means that you are translating thoughts in your head. Non-fluent speakers are the ones who need to pause and literally translate their thoughts from their dominant language to the target language before speaking. Conversations are often slow and cumbersome. Fluent speakers are able to just "spit" words and sentences out. There may be detectable flaws or anomalies in their pronunciation, grammar etc., but on the whole they are able to communicate. They are able to convey their meaning across.

I think an important thing about speaking other languages is to simply not be afraid to make mistakes and not feel embarrassed about doing so. Because it's only through making these mistakes that we learn. :) And it's far less embarrassing than people who are so afraid of making mistakes that they never try to speak the language in the first place, and as you said, end up being one of those people who've lived in a country/region for decades but still can't even sustain a conversation with locals.

IMO the refusal to learn a local language also seems to carry an air of arrogance with it. And as Dave from the video points out, Anglophones often become irate when foreigners in their country don't speak English, so why do we accept Anglophones living overseas not speaking local languages? Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that people living in Anglophone countries like Australia should speak English. Non-natives don't have to be perfect, but they need to at least make an effort to be able to hold a basic conversation and get around. But likewise, Anglophones living in non-Anglophone countries should surely adhere to the same standard/expectation and make an effort in that regional language. It's just good manners as a person living overseas.


She doesn't always enjoy the learning but can't complain when she sees mum trying to speak the local lingo too.
Reminds me of those memes comparing a leader vs a boss. Bosses tell people what to do but don't do it themselves, whereas leaders lead by example. :D
i.e. "Do as I say" vs "Do as I do"

[Bato]

Fluent in French and English.

I could get half decent at German (again) if I tried.

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=13057&page=117):

No-one ever says "my brother and I" or similar in day to day conversation.
Everyone I know says "...and I" in the correct context. Either way, we're both just being anecdotal, which is a weak form of evidence. The fact is that "...and me" is only used in English when referring to yourself as the direct object to a verb or preposition. So I also hear people say "...and me" as well, but in that correct context. There's nothing wrong with saying, "and me" when used correctly, which is more likely how you would hear English speakers using it. "I" is a subject pronoun whereas "me" is an object pronoun.

Subject pronoun: "I want to buy more Transformers." correct!
Object pronoun: "Me want to buy more Transformers." incorrect!

Subject pronoun: "You and I collect Transformers." correct!
Object pronoun: "You and me collect Transformers." incorrect!

Subject pronoun: "Jetfire told I to transform." incorrect!
Object pronoun: "Jetfire told me to transform." correct!

Subject pronoun: "Between you and I, Michael Bay is a cinematic genius." incorrect!
Object pronoun: "Between you and me, Michael Bay is a cinematic genius." correct! (except for the thing about Bay :p)

Subject pronoun: "Sideswipe and I are twins." correct!
Object pronoun: "Sideswipe and me are twins." incorrect!

Subject pronoun: "The Space Bridge transported the Dinobots and I to Cybertron." incorrect!
Object pronoun: "The Space Bridge transported me and the Dinobots to Cybertron." correct!

How to tell?
This is what I often tell my ESL students; the same rule with subject and object pronouns consistently applies whether you're talking about just yourself or including others. Test and see how the sentence sounds with just yourself; if it works with just yourself then it's correct, otherwise it's wrong. This is called "reducing the subject" (to just the first person).

Comparative Examples
Using the object pronoun...
"Me and my friends played Transformers Devastation."
Now reduce the subject and see how that sounds...
"Me played Transformers Devastation."
If it sounds wrong with only yourself, then it's wrong with anyone else. So let's try the subject pronoun:
"My friends and I played Transformers Devastation."
Now reduce the subject and see how that sounds...
"I played Transformers Devastation."
Further examples...
"Me and friends watched Transformers."
"Me watched Transformers."
"My friends and I watched Transformers."
"I watched Transformers."
etc.

As mentioned before, there's no precedent for most Cybertronians to confuse the use of subject and object pronouns. It appears to be entirely out of character. And bear in mind that they're not even really speaking English, but rather a Cybertronian language, and it's massively unlikely (borderline impossible) that an alien language would happen to share the same rules of pronoun declension as Modern English. Many closely related West Germanic languages (of which English is a member) share the same rules as English.
e.g. the 5 first person pronoun declensions in German are: ich (nominative), mich (accusative), mir (dative), meiner (genitive) and mein (possessive). And modern European grammar has become significantly simplified since the fall of Rome. The grammatical structure of Classical European languages was far more complex than that of Modern European languages. For example, English only has one possessive adjectival first person pronoun; "my" (e.g. "This is my Transformer."). Latin has lots!
meus (magister meus optimus = "Optimus is my teacher")
meum (et quod venturum est et scietis quia nomen meum est Megatron cum dedero vindicatam meam super vos = "And you shall know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you")
mea (potesta mea omnia est; vinci absurdum est = "My power is everything; defeat is absurd!")
meae (cathedra mea, regulae meae" = "my chair, my rules")
meam (vocem meam audit = "(whomever) hears my voice")
mihi (mens mihi camera ludaficabilis = "The mind is my playpen")
meo (meo in negotio, amici non sunt, suspecti tantum sunt = "In my business, there are no friends, only suspects")
meis (ploratus ululatusque meis auribus musica sunt = "Cries and screams are music to my ears")
As you can see, ancient languages were far more complicated than Modern languages (although more precise)! I've only listed 7 different versions of "my" in Latin. English only has ONE per declension. e.g. there is only one way to say "I," or "me," or "my" etc.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'd like to know how many people actually know latin in Australia?
It's still taught in schools and there are several courses for it in the HSC (NSW equivalent of the VCE). Latin is compulsory in the first term of Year 7 at my school, but we don't teach it beyond that, while other schools teach it all the way up to Year 12.

Latin is still spoken in the Church. I've seen church services in Japan run in Japanese and Latin, because of all the Westerners in the church who come from different countries it's impractical to run services in 30 languages, so Latin becomes the lingua franca for non-Japanese Christians in Japan.
e.g.
P: "In nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti; *chichi to ko to mina no yoru to, aamen. Dominus vobicum; ※shu wa minasan to tomoni."
Japanese attendees: ☆mata shisai to tomoni."
Non-Japanese speaking attendees: et cum spiritu tuo."

Latin terms and words are still widely used in many fields including medicine, law, government, literature and even everyday English. Examples of Latin words and expressions used in English (some are specialised while others aren't) include:
ad hoc
alias
bona fide
exempli gratia (e.g.)
id est (i.e.)
nota bene (N.B.)
post script (P.S.)
ante meridiem (a.m.)
post meridieem (p.m.)
a priori (Highbrow says this in "The Rebirth" ;))
actus reus (the act of committing a crime)
mens rea (the intention to commit a crime)
ad hominem
ad infinitum
ad interim, or just interim
ad nauseum
addendum
affidavit
alibi
alma mater
Anno Domine (although "C.E." = Common Era is preferred now)
Aurora Australis and the Aurora Borealis; Southern and Northern Lights
bonus
carpe diem (seize the day!)
caveat emptor (let the buyer beware)
caveat venditor (let the seller beware)
cogito ergo sum (I think therefore I am); and just "ergo" is commonly used
consensus
In some countries (such as USA), a person who graduates with honours is said to have graduated magna cum laude (with great honour) or summa cum laude (with highest honour); the English words "applause" or "applaud" and just "laud" (to praise) are derived from "laude"
de facto
defunct(us)
deus ex machina (god in the machine)
dona nobis pacem (give us peace)
e pluribus unum (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg)
ex gratia
exeunt (remember reading this in every Shakespearean play? ;))
facsimile (the word "fax" is short for this)
Defensor (Defender or Guardian, yes, that's why Defensor is called "Guardian" in Japan ;))
gloria in excelsis deo (glory to God in the highest)
hic (here)
homo sapiens
hypothesis
in absentia
in memoriam
in toto
in vitro
ipso facto
lux; "light" = international standard unit for measuring illumination. Another word for light in Latin is "lumen," and 1 Lux = 1 Lumen per square metre
Magna Carta
magnum opus (masterpiece)
mens sana in corpore sano; "a sound mind in a sound body" - also the philosophy behind the super soldier project that created Captain America
nil
non compos mentis; a person who claims that vaccines cause autism is non compos mentis ;) :p
pax (peace); Orion Pax means "peaceful hunter"
per annum
per capita
per se
plus
post mortem
pro bono
quid pro quo
qui docet discit ("He who teaches learns"); motto of the NSW Teachers Federation ;)
semper fidelis ("always faithful"); motto of the US Marine Corps - "Semper fi! Oo-rah!"
terra nullius
veni vidi vici ("I came, I saw, I conquered.")
verbatim (https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.seroundtable.com/google-verbatim-1321452620.png); use this option to refine your Google search ;)
Aequitas (justice)
veto
via
vice versa
scientia manu et mente (motto of UNSW)
culpam poena premit comes (motto of the NSW Police Force)
resquiescat in pace (R.I.P.)
...et cetera, et cetera, etc. ;)
This is just scratching the surface, but Latin words and terms are still widely used in Australia (and other countries), and there are still lots of people out there who speak Latin. It is the official language of at least one country (Vatican City). The reason why it's a dead language isn't because nobody speaks it, but because nobody speaks it as a first language. Plenty of people still speak Latin, but always as a second language. Thus Latin is still spoken today, including in Australia, as a lingua franca (there's another Latin term!), although the most common lingua franca in Australia is Lingua Anglica (English). :) Remember that Australia legally doesn't have an official language, English is merely our de facto lingua franca. ;) While the Latin speaking population in Australia would be extremely small, there are more Latin speakers than there are speakers of some critically endangered Australian languages. Remember that many Australian languages have become extinct. Language extinction occurs when nobody speaks or uses the language at all, not even as a second language.

Then there's Classical Greek... ;)

P.S.: When I was living in Japan, I was once admitted into hospital. The doctor asked me what medication I was using, and I didn't know how to say these medications in Japanese (because different countries use different names, even between countries that speak the same language; e.g. USA v Australia), so I told the doctor the names of the medications in their Latin-based scientific nomenclature, and he understood straight away!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*「父と子と聖霊の御名によると、アーメン」 (In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen)
※「主は皆さんと共に」 (The Lord by with you)
☆「また司祭と共に」 (And also with you)

[Bladestorm]

I wish I had had the opportunity to learn Latin at school (my high school only taught French).
As a geographer/geologist it would have made my university life so much easier since so much of earth science is based in latin terminology not to mention all the taxonomy and classifications.
I remember I spent a lot of time looking up latin to get the taxonomic meanings out of a lot of the fossils and fauna I used to work with while at uni.
Even in my working life we still referred to most species by their "latin" classifications rather than their standard names, since standard names can be applied to more than one species and cause ambiguity.

Personally as someone from a science background I think there is still value having it as a language our children can learn particularly if they wish to pursue the sciences.

As Gokimus experienced, even medicine rely heavily on it.
Latin isn't as "dead" as everyone assumes.

[GoktimusPrime]

Why UK linguists are fearing Brexit (http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2016/jun/21/hold-your-tongues-why-language-learners-fear-a-vote-for-brexit)

[GoktimusPrime]

Comparing words from English, Korean, Japanese and Chinese (Part 3) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XX0dn2D12k), and the first word is "Transformers." ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

From the Pokémon Go thread...

I think you're in the vast minority of westerners if you've been pronouncing it pockemon all this time for the past 20 years. Never heard anybody say that, not sure if you're even serious.
It is a portmanteau of the words "Pocket Monsters." Pocket is pronounced "pock-et" (/ˈpɒk.ɪt/) in English (rhyming with docket and rocket), not "poke-it." Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_ODqJwkXN4) is the original opening theme song for Pokémon. You can clearly here that it's pronounced "Pock-eh-mon," and not "Poke-ee-mon." Whoever officially transcribed the English title even placed an accent mark above the "e" to tell people where to place the stress on the word (which is very important because English, unlike Japanese, is a stressed☆ language). The accented é is the reason why we don't pronounce café as "kaffer" or résumé as "resume" (as in "resume your positions"), or touché as "touchy" etc.

---------------------------------------
☆Although English is among few European languages which infrequently uses accent marks to tell you where to place the stress on words. I feel sorry for learners of English who must find it difficult where to place the stress on words like "extract" when it's a noun ("I read the extract") or a verb ("extract the information") etc. Whoever transliterated Pokémon has deliberately placed an accent mark on top of the "e" to explicitly avoid this confusion, so the evidence is right there above the "e."

[GoktimusPrime]

Here are some English sentences which would likely confuse the crap out of anyone attempting to learn the English language!

Say the following sentences aloud:
"An abstract concept was abstracted from nature."
"What meaning was extracted from the extract?"
"The compact car was compacted."
"Are you content with the contents?"
"Let's desert this desert."
"I am incensed with this smelly incense candle."
"Do not object to the object of my affection."
"The council refused to dispose of my refuse."
"The king subjected his subjects to poverty."
"The contractor contracted a cold."
"His accent accentuates his origin."
"The farmer could not produce any more produce."
"Do not project your project at me."
"She coordinates to find the coordinates."

And for anyone who's ever wondered how tonal languages (e.g. Chinese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bro4mkb_VKc), Vietnamese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY1jDRsOlnE), Thai (https://youtu.be/35WA_MZT_dI?t=115), Swedish (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrzwpZfONXY) etc.) work, it's pretty much like this but imagine that every word is depending on changes in pitch!

[tron07]

I can speak 2 other language fluently and few other in bits and pieces.

[Paulbot]

"What meaning was extracted from the extract?"

Either I'm missing something or I pronounce one of the words "wrong"

[GoktimusPrime]

Either I'm missing something or I pronounce one of the words "wrong"
When extract is used as a noun then the stress falls on the first syllable.
e.g. "Made from natural plant èxtracts."
When it's used as a verb then the stress falls on the second syllable.
e.g. "The fossils were extràcted from the site."

[Paulbot]

Not the way I pronounce them :p

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

From the Pokémon Go thread...

It is a portmanteau of the words "Pocket Monsters." Pocket is pronounced "pock-et" (/ˈpɒk.ɪt/) in English (rhyming with docket and rocket), not "poke-it." Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_ODqJwkXN4) is the original opening theme song for Pokémon. You can clearly here that it's pronounced "Pock-eh-mon," and not "Poke-ee-mon." Whoever officially transcribed the English title even placed an accent mark above the "e" to tell people where to place the stress on the word (which is very important because English, unlike Japanese, is a stressed☆ language). The accented é is the reason why we don't pronounce café as "kaffer" or résumé as "resume" (as in "resume your positions"), or touché as "touchy" etc.

Jumping in a bit late here.
that's all very good and well for those with Japanese experience, but for the however many kiddies that watched the English version of the cartoon, despite the accent being on the "e" on the title text, throughout the cartoon opening (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mToV0JNQ0bE) and the cartoon itself every time it's said, it's pronounced Poke-ee-mon. So no wonder that most English speakers will call them poke-ee-mon.

Expecting someone who has no knowledge of another language to adhere to that language's rules is a bit pricky.

[GoktimusPrime]

But it's from English... by the conventions of English phonology it should be "pock-uh-mon" (/ˈpɒkəˈmɒn/). Forget Japanese phonology, because their pronunciation would be /ˈpɒkɛˈmɒn/ since Japanese lacks the mid central /ə/ vowel.

Although this would only add to an already extensive list of English words which defy phonological conventions. :rolleyes: Like how we pronounce the first "i" in words like finish, infinite, definite and indefinite differently from "finite." But 'finite' was mutated in the late 15th Century as English evolved from Late Middle English to Early Modern English (i.e. Shakespearean English), and one of the great catalysts for this change was the invention of the printing press. English was in far greater flux (and more prone to bastardisation) prior to the advent of printing as obviously the majority of people were illiterate. The mass production of books led to a significant boost in literacy in the Anglophone population, which is why even Early Modern English is significantly more intelligible to Modern English speakers today than Middle English, and Old English is practically an entirely alien language (more closely related to Modern Frisian, spoken mostly in parts of the Netherlands and some parts of Germany). King James was instrumental in the standardisation of Early Modern English.

Here's a comparison. For the benefit of those who don't read Old/Middle English letters no longer used in the Modern English alphabet, I've omitted those letters in place of modern equivalents with the exception of "æ," which is "a" as in "apple" (and not as in "cart"). Also note that the "th" used in the Old and Middle English texts below is pronounce as in words like "that," "those" or "weather," and not as in "thin" or "with."

Old English
Sothlice on tham dagum wæs geworden gebod fram tham casere augusto. thæt eall ymbehwyrft wære tomearcod

Middle English
Forsothe it is don, in tho dayis a maundement wente out fro cesar august, that al þe world shulde ben discriued

Early Modern English
And it came to passe in those dayes, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Now you can see how greatly English has changed between Old and Middle English, yet in the 600 years since Early Modern English very little has changed. Looking the example here we've lost the "e" in "passe" and "dayes." That's it. Other than that it's remained reasonably constant, and this was no accident. It was a very deliberate act from King James to standardise the English language and lock it in, and the fact that English from 600 years ago is still intelligible with English today is a lasting legacy of King James.

Also, many of the peculiarities between English spelling and pronunciation occurred between 1350-1600 during a three-stage period known as the Great Vowel Shift. And again, the advent of the printing press and edict of King James saw the end of the Great Vowel Shift as English spelling and pronunciation finally became standardised. But even then, it took 250 years in a pre-literate age for these mutations to occur, and much of it ended when literacy became widespread.

So it seems implausible that just mongrelisations would occur so rapidly in the modern age where we should have far higher rates of literacy and education overall*. In any case, most of the time I've corrected my students' pronunciation** (cos ya know, it's actually part of my job ;)). Although I don't do it anymore because my students all pronounce it correctly (I only had to do it once). :)

----------------------------------------------------
*as public education in England came about in the 19th Century, although the Americans had it a few decades earlier and Scotland actually had free public education 300 years before the English! (take that, Brexit! :p); up till then education was private and much of it was controlled by the Church
**not just of Pokémon but any other words they use; although correcting Latin is interesting because there are different ways to pronounce the words depending on which variant; Classical, Vulgar, Ecclesiastic etc. - I use Classical but I also allow my students to use other variants - it's hard to nitpick a dead language especially when even the HSC examination lacks any listening or speaking components!). And I must admit that I use a less common mouth trill for the German /r/, whereas most native Germans trill from the throat. But I do tell my students that I'm using a less common pronunciation because I personally find it easier and I encourage them to try and trill from the throat if they can.

---------------------------------------------

On a totally different note, I filled out the Census tonight and came across one problem with Question 15 for my daughter. And I did provide feedback to the ABS about it.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/census2016a_zpsbbtyiyb9.jpg
If they haven't fixed this by the next census then I might just tick "Other" and place both languages there.

I also noticed that you can't choose more than two options for "Other, ancestry" (although that's one more than the "Other" option for languages). I guess in this case people might need to manually enter multiple ancestries in one of the boxes.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

But it's from English... by the conventions of English phonology it should be "pock-uh-mon" (/ˈpɒkəˈmɒn/).

The cartoon consistently calls the pok ee mon, so kids being kids, is what they end up being called. Nevermind what the conventions of phonology are. The cartoon says poke ee mon. So the kids, they say da poke ee mons.

Fault lies in the voice director I guess:p:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Well, Transformers Combiner Wars looks set on mongrelising the pronunciation of "Caminus" as "cammyness" instead of the correct "KAH-mee-noos." :rolleyes:

Segue time!

Does anyone else find it grinding when you hear some people - and it tends to be among some Americans - place the stress/emphasis on the first syllable in "Transformers" (TRANSformers)? In every English language Transformers cartoon and film, it's always pronounce correctly on the second syllable (transFORMers); just start singing the G1 theme song and you'll hear it. ;) It only seems to be a minority though - every English speaker I've ever spoken to, American, Australian etc., places the stress on the second syllable. And every American actor in the Transformers cartoons and films also does the same, like when Cade Yaeger says, "I think we found a Transformer" or when Attinger says, "The age of the Transformers is over" (although Kelsey Grammer speaks with that lovely refined mid-Atlantic American English* - he would make a great voice actor for Tracks if he ever appeared in the live action films)

-------------------------------------------
*As opposed to Cade Yaegar's more crude sounding Boston accent... despite being a Texan. :rolleyes: Remember that unlike most other English dialects, American English was initially constructed by educators and linguists such as Noah Webster etc.

P.S.: Fun fact... Vatican City is the only place where you can find ATMs which give prompts in Latin (http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ATM-Latin.jpg)! :eek:

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=532979#post532979):

Never assume the pronunciation of names (proper nouns), even if they are derived/taken from previously used words. Just take it as a new fictional robot's name, derived from a latin word, using the same spelling, but pronounced differently.

Edit - To add, has anyone officially stated that this particular character's name is in fact taken from the Latin word? Or is it a completeney ficticious name that happens to share the spelling?
See how ridiculous these trivial things can spiral into?

Edit - and I know of the TF titan Caminus, but he is a different entity so that is moot.
Nobody's explicitly stated that Optimus, Prime, Ultra, Magnus, Maximus etc. are from Latin, or that other names are from other language sources. But we know it because it's common knowledge and pronunciation rules are similarly applied.


Gok apparently thinks every TFs name needs to be sourced from real, literary sources. Primus alone knows what he thinks of Emirate Xaaron. Aside from that, he also appears to ignorant of one thing every student of linguistics ought to be aware of from the get-go: language changes.
This would be true if Caminus had been absorbed into English in that form or a similar form. English pronounces words like Optimus, Prime, Ultra, Magnus and Maximus differently from Latin, but this is different because these words exist in English in these forms or similar forms. Caminus doesn't. The nearest English equivalent of caminus is "chimney" which we get from Old French cheminee, and even this pronunciation has mutated because the pronunciation of cheminee is something like "shommee-neh". In fact, RiD Optimus Prime's voice actor Neil Kaplan has a voice-character based on the original Latin pronunciation of Optimus which he calls "Optimoose." ;)

You can't simply chalk down isolated mispronunciations as language evolution (by this logic George Dubya's mispronunciation of "nuclear" as "new-kewlar" and reference to the Greek people as "Grecians" would be correct :rolleyes:), that's a wholly different thing. Also, as explained 2 posts ago (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=532791&postcount=156), language evolution in languages was effectively halted after the advent of the printing press and languages like English have had relatively very little change in the past 600 years.

P.S.: if authors don't want people to notice hold standards of pronunciation for names, then just invent entirely fictitious ones. If you're going to draw references from the real world then of course people will naturally refer to them. It's like how Spider-Man 2 claimed that you can make nuclear fission from a single atom of tritium (H3O)... you literally cannot! On the other hand you can imbue fictitious metals like adamantium, vibranium or even transformium with magical properties because they're not real - there's no real world reference for anyone to disclaim it.

[Raider]

I think you are overthinking this waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy too much mate. tom-AY-to, tom-AH-to really :p

[tron07]

I am no gamma nazi, so couldnt be bothered.

Do you pronaunce Ikea as i-kea or eh-kea?

ice or igloo?

[Paulbot]

I say TRANSformer, Poke-ee-mon, I pronounce Extract and Extracted the same way, and the Transformer planet Caminus didn't have a way to pronounce it correctly until the cartoon that Hasbro approved gave us one :):p

Build a spacebridge and oh wait, Japanese is a language where pronunciation really, really matters right? Maybe we should all learn Japanese? Is that your secret agenda!? ;):eek:

[GoktimusPrime]

I think you are overthinking this waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy too much mate. tom-AY-to, tom-AH-to really :p
This is nothing yet. I have yet to scratch the surface on what I really think about this issue. I work in language education and it is something that I'm very passionate about and is close to my heart. My rant here is only 5% of what I'm actually thinking, but I've cut most of it out because I don't think anyone else wants to read a 300,000 word thesis on what I really think. Nobody would bother reading endless great walls of texts, so it'd just be a waste of my time writing it anyway. You should spend a day sitting in our faculty, we go into far more intense linguistic discussions than anything that's ever mentioned here. :D (that's what happens when you're working in a room full of language teachers :p - and it's not just Japanese, we also teach Latin, French and German at our school)

Do you pronaunce Ikea as i-kea or eh-kea?

ice or igloo?
IKEA is actually an acronym which stands for Ingvar Kamprad Elmtaryd Agunnaryd (the first two words is the name of Ikea's founder and the last two are place names). So as an acronym the pronunciation will conform to the base phonology of the language that's pronouncing it. English speakers pronounce Ikea as /aɪˈkiːə/ ("eye-kee-uh") whereas it's pronounced as /ɪˈkeːˈa/ ("ee-kee-ah") in its native Sweden, as you can here in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0) (Swedes still say "ee-kee-ah" even when speaking in other languages like English).


I say TRANSformer, Poke-ee-mon, I pronounce Extract and Extracted the same way, and the Transformer planet Caminus didn't have a way to pronounce it correctly until the cartoon that Hasbro approved gave us one :):p

Build a spacebridge and oh wait, Japanese is a language where pronunciation really, really matters right? Maybe we should all learn Japanese? Is that your secret agenda!? ;):eek:
This thread is meant for the serious discussion of languages. If this is not something that interests you, then I would respectfully ask you to please refrain from making provocative comments (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) which add nothing constructive to the discussion. You will be aware that this is in violation of board rule #1 (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=2):

1 - Treatment of others
Treat others in a way that they would want to be treated by others, with respect and dignity. Do not criticise, insult, abuse, ridicule or bait a negative response from others. If you respond abusively to someone else's baiting (instead of reporting the situation to a board staff member), you may be treated the same as the person doing the baiting. Bad behaviour in any form deters lurkers, guests and regular members from interacting here.

Thank you, sir.

[Megatran]

A great guy once wrote:

And try not to be a party pooper, spoiling the fun for others. This is a place of entertainment and enjoyment, so it should be a fairly relaxed environment for you and others to play in.

[GoktimusPrime]

That is precisely why I redirected this discussion, which originally came from the Combiner Wars series thread, into this thread which is intended for actual discussion of languages. And if someone should come into this thread and make facetiously provocative comments towards other users, then that ends up spoiling this thread for those of us who are passionate about languages. If this is a topic that doesn't interest someone, then that person can easily just stay away from this thread. There's a reason why you don't see me posting in the Unauthorised toy section of this board. ;)

Anyway, back to constructive and relevant discussion on language...

[Bladestorm]

When it comes down to words/dialogue in TV shows I think the correct pronunciation is often forgotten and becomes dependant on the actors who first say the words.

I remember many years back there was a massive who-haa in Buffy about the name "Angelus".
Different actors pronounced it differently in the first season from episode to episode and it wasn't until the end of season one or early in season two they seemed to get all the actors on the same pronunciation.
The actors themselves admitted in interviews they had no idea how to pronounce it when they read the script and no one gave them direction on HOW to pronounce it initially so they all went with their own interpretations.

I would pronounce caminus KAH-mi-nus personally but I haven't heard how bad the CW version is as I've been holding off watching as the voices really grate on me. Given it seems like they've cut corners in places I doubt correct pronounciation is high on their agenda.

[Borgeman]

Anyway, back to constructive and relevant discussion on language...

Unfortunately, I dont believe it can be constructive, as your great passion means you will fight tooth and nail to enforce your opinion as the "right" one, in this case being that Caminus is being pronounced wrong.

I stand by my statement that regardless of origin, a person's name can be pronounced however which way that person, or indeed the parents (at birth in real life) choose too. Cammy-ness, Cam-eye-ness, Cam-eye-noose, Cah-mine-us, etc etc. All acceptable as NAMES.

If you walk around telling people that their name is pronounced wrong for whatever reason, you will be for the most part ridiculed or told where to go.

[DaptoDog]

I've been led here from the Combiner Wars thread. I interrupt these proceedings to say that I had never heard of the Tagalog language until now (but of course I know of the Philippines). I have learned something new. Thank you. I will now leave so please carry on with the Caminus discussion.

[griffin]

Unfortunately, I dont believe it can be constructive, as your great passion means you will fight tooth and nail to enforce your opinion as the "right" one, in this case being that Caminus is being pronounced wrong.

I stand by my statement that regardless of origin, a person's name can be pronounced however which way that person, or indeed the parents (at birth in real life) choose too. Cammy-ness, Cam-eye-ness, Cam-eye-noose, Cah-mine-us, etc etc. All acceptable as NAMES.

If you walk around telling people that their name is pronounced wrong for whatever reason, you will be for the most part ridiculed or told where to go.

That reminds me of the 2007 Movie press event in Sydney, Megan Fox sternly corrected someone for pronouncing her name "mee-gan", by telling them that she pronounces her name "may-gan"... so it certainly goes to your point of different people pronounce words differently, particularly if it is a new word or name (that hasn't been officially noted as being derived from any pre-existing word).
After all, dialects (accents) would technically mispronounce words to others, but not to themselves... like how every vowel in New Zealand is "u"... fush & chups anyone? ;) :p

(Caminus may indeed be mispronounced, but until we get official word from the creator of the word on how it is meant to be pronounced or what word it is derived from, if at all, we can only go on what is (audio) canon, and so far it is only the machinima cartoon.)


And people shouldn't make this personal or insult others... just ignore a person who is more fanatical than you are about something... after all, we are all fans of something here, and "fan" comes from the word "fanatical".

[GoktimusPrime]

I stand by my statement that regardless of origin, a person's name can be pronounced however which way that person, or indeed the parents (at birth in real life) choose too. Cammy-ness, Cam-eye-ness, Cam-eye-noose, Cah-mine-us, etc etc. All acceptable as NAMES.

If you walk around telling people that their name is pronounced wrong for whatever reason, you will be for the most part ridiculed or told where to go.
That's a reasonable point. I often have students who tell me that their name is pronounced in an unconventional way, and at the end of the day I have to pronounce it in the way that they want it to be pronounced. When I mark a roll for the first time, before I start marking I tell the class to correct me if I say any names wrong. And if it's a name that I have trouble pronouncing or keep forgetting to pronounce it in their preferred way, I tell the student to not relent in bugging me about the preferred pronunciation until I get it right.

I await to hear Caminus (or other Titans) speak his own name (perhaps in a flashback) to see how he pronounces his own name. And yes, if he says "Cammyness," then I can accept that this is how the name is pronounced. Before Scourge appeared in The Transformers The Movie, I used to pronounce that name as in rhyming with "merge." Then I saw TFTM and heard Unicron christen him as "Scourge" rhyming with "forge." I can concede that "Cammyness" may be the way that the name of the planet is pronounced. Gah... it still just sounds so wrong to me though. :o I guess it's similar to how a lot of Anglophones pronounce croissant as /kɹəˈsɒnt/ ("kruh-sont"), whereas Canadians pronounce it more like French as /kɹwɑˈsɑ̃/ ("krwuh-son"). I saw a video once from a Canadian who said that he and his Canadian mates were sitting in a café in the US and they ordered croissant and were criticised by Americans for their "mispronunciation" of 'croissant,' where in reality their pronunciation is technically more correct since it's actually a French word!


After all, dialects (accents) would technically mispronounce words to others, but not to themselves... like how every vowel in New Zealand is "u"... fush & chups anyone? ;) :p
Dialectal variations isn't the same as mispronunciations though, as those variants are usually a result of divergent evolution. The different vowels in New Zealand and South African English is because their phonology is diluted with Dutch, whereas Australian English phonology is descendant from Cockney.

Here are some videos which you guys might find entertaining.
Comparing the pronunciation of "Popeye" in English, Korean, Japanese and Chinese (https://youtu.be/2jMddKVDwUU?t=100). Here the Japanese and Korean girl realise that the Japanese and Korean word for "Popeye" sound similar to each other (but different from English). They high five each other as the American laments in horror. :p
Comparing the pronunciation of "sofa" in English, Korean and Japanese (https://youtu.be/z5wVuu_oqQ8?list=PL21g--TVPS-r6UTkla9r5fIkHZs34PklO&t=136). Japanese is "Sofa" (but Japanese "f" sounds different from English so the American guy hears it as "hw" (it's actually midway between the two), and in Korean it's "Sopa". The Japanese girl and Korean guy are debating between "sohwa" and "sopa" while the American guy tells them that they're both wrong because it's "sofa" because it's from English (it's actually originally an Arabic word (ṣuffa/صُفَّة), but it arrived in Korean and Japanese via English).
I'm empathising a lot with this American dude. And yeah, "Bobbai" and "Sopa" are also technically correct in those languages... but boy does it feel wrong. :p :p

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/dave_sofa_zpsyev0yknz.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/dave_popeye_zpsaeevtw5u.jpg

[CaminusPrime]

Admittedly I'm starting to use a new username, caminus prime (my name being Cameron and at least close to caminus). But yeah best way to describe how I would pronounce it is cammy-ness or cah-mine-us. This debate has definitely sparked my interest.

[GoktimusPrime]

As bad as cammyness sounds, it would be more (Latin) accurate than "cah-mine-us." But if you want to say it accurately then it's "KAH-mee-noos."

Or perhaps go with Cameronus Prime or Caimshrònus Prime; Caimshròn being the original Scots Gaelic form of Cameron. I think that Caimshròn might be pronounced as "calm shron" or "cow-shron"... and the "shron" may be "sron" or "sroyn," or I could be completely wrong. I'm really bad with Gaelic phonology because often the reading is so different from the spelling. Irish names are notoriously difficult to read if you've never encountered them before.

e.g.
* Sean = we all know it's "shorn," but for a lot of people who come from non-Anglo/Celtic countries they may pronounce it as "seen" (rhyming with bean, dean, lean, mean, wean etc.)
* Sinead = "shin-aid"; which non-Celts really only know because of Sinead O'Connor. :p
The rest of these names have their readings spoiler tagged, so click and drag to reveal!
* Áine = Awn-yeh
* Aisling = Ash-ling
* Aoife = Ee-fah
* Béibhinn = Bevin
* Brid = Brij
* Caoimhe = Kwee-vah
* Cathal = Cah-hull; Irish form of "Charles."
* Clodagh = Kloh-dah
* Dearbhail = Dervil
* Eibhilin = Aye-leen
* Grainne = Grawn-yah
* Laoise = Leesha
* Méadhbh =Mayv
* Niamh = Neev
* Oisin = Oosh-een
* Pádraig = Paw-rick
* Saoirse = See-or-shah
* Siobhan = Sher-vorn
* Tagh = Teeg
And I do have or have had students with some of these names! (it's funny when we try to render them in Kanji :p)

Although another cool thing about keeping Cameron in there is that it's also a reference to a planet from G1 (where Optimus Prime's original body was ultimately found on Cameron's moon of VsQs in the Matrix Quest). So if you could hybridise the name Cameron and Caminus, then you'd actually be referencing two planets from Transformers lore! :D Camironus Prime?

[Bladestorm]

Names are a funny thing and people can get quite personally offended by mispronunciation.

The photographer of my wedding MANY moons ago was a guy from Queensland. and upon meeting him I said "Hi Grant".
As a Kiwi we normally say the name as Gr-aunt and thus that is how I pronounced it.
He gave me the most horrible frown and said: "My name is Gr-ANT!".

It was quite an unnatural pronunciation for me but I tried my best to remember when I met him to force the Aussie accent out. It remains with me as probably the first time I encountered someone who was VERY particular about their name pronunciation.

[Zommael]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=532979#post532979):

Nobody's explicitly stated that Optimus, Prime, Ultra, Magnus, Maximus etc. are from Latin, or that other names are from other language sources. But we know it because it's common knowledge and pronunciation rules are similarly applied.


This would be true if Caminus had been absorbed into English in that form or a similar form. English pronounces words like Optimus, Prime, Ultra, Magnus and Maximus differently from Latin, but this is different because these words exist in English in these forms or similar forms. Caminus doesn't. The nearest English equivalent of caminus is "chimney" which we get from Old French cheminee, and even this pronunciation has mutated because the pronunciation of cheminee is something like "shommee-neh". In fact, RiD Optimus Prime's voice actor Neil Kaplan has a voice-character based on the original Latin pronunciation of Optimus which he calls "Optimoose." ;)

You can't simply chalk down isolated mispronunciations as language evolution (by this logic George Dubya's mispronunciation of "nuclear" as "new-kewlar" and reference to the Greek people as "Grecians" would be correct :rolleyes:), that's a wholly different thing. Also, as explained 2 posts ago (http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=532791&postcount=156), language evolution in languages was effectively halted after the advent of the printing press and languages like English have had relatively very little change in the past 600 years.

P.S.: if authors don't want people to notice hold standards of pronunciation for names, then just invent entirely fictitious ones. If you're going to draw references from the real world then of course people will naturally refer to them. It's like how Spider-Man 2 claimed that you can make nuclear fission from a single atom of tritium (H3O)... you literally cannot! On the other hand you can imbue fictitious metals like adamantium, vibranium or even transformium with magical properties because they're not real - there's no real world reference for anyone to disclaim it.

Gok, I want you to know that I respect you as a member of this community and for your contributions, both officially and otherwise, to the fandom. However, lately your posts regarding language and linguistics have come across as arrogant, pedantic, and ill-informed, and it's affecting the dialogue on the boards, not to mention making me angry. So I'm not going to hold back here, okay?

I'm going to start with the highlighted part, because this is some of the most flagrant bull**** you've ever spouted. Language evolution flagrantly did not halt with the invention of the printing press 600 years ago. Don't believe me? I only need provide one example: Shakespeare. One only need look at how difficult it is for modern audiences and students of Shakespeare to understand his works clearly to see that language has changed. Additionally, Shakespeare's works are the recorded first use of many words and phrases that are now common. They also contain words and phrases that have now disappeared from use. We no longer say "thou" when we mean "you", for instance, and this is only the most basic example. Additionally, do you think Shakespeare - or a person inventing a printing press 600 years ago - would have had any comprehension of words like "internet", "feminist", or "headphones" at all, let alone in their modern usage? Language changes, and it changes all the time. The chimney wasn't even invented until the middle ages, so the idea that a Latin word like "Caminus" could mean chimney as we understand it today is ridiculous.

Now, my problem is that you're taking a position which, among linguists, is known as prescriptivist. This basically means that you're treating language as a set of rules - grammar, punctuation, pronunciation - which have to be followed at all costs, lest we fail to comprehend one another and society descends into chaos. Unfortunately, a more thorough study of language reveals this is not the case, because of the above mentioned evolution. If one does not follow a particularly grammatical rule - such as for instance writing "I" or "you" instead of "one" - then the whole sentence doesn't necessarily fall apart. You'd still be able to follow me, even if I didn't use the exact correct term. Unfortunately, prescriptivism suggests otherwise, and that's how we end up with vestigial parts of language that are somehow still hanging on, such as "whom", a word which never does anything to actually improve the clarity of a sentence or phrase, and which only serves to bump up the ego of pedants when they notice it's being used (or not) incorrectly. Prescriptivists behave as if making an error regarding some grammatical rule will result in the failure of society, whilst believing that so long as they are "correct" at all times, they will somehow be rewarded by some all-powerful god who handed down language to man at the invention of the printing press 600 years ago. This simply isn't the case.

The same is true of pronunciation as it is of grammar. Pronouncing a word wrong doesn't necessarily mean it won't be understood. It might mean people will laugh at you, but it doesn't mean you're suddenly talking nonsense. A good example is the word "maroon", referring to the colour worn by Queensland's State of Origin* team. In the UK - where I'm from, and where we have a country called England where we speak English, by the way, not that that's my only qualification here - that word is pronounced with a long double-u sound, such as in "moon", "balloon", or "platoon". In Australia, it's pronounced with a different long-oh sound, as in "loan", "moan", or "float". Neither pronunciation is any more correct than the other (no matter how I may tease my Australian housemates for their bizarre colonial way of speaking). Yes, you could look back and discover that the ancient Vikings wore a deep shade of purple when pillaging Britain, and their leader was a man called "Mahroney" and his name was pronounced one way or the other and anyway this was all before the great vowel shift and I'm making this up, but that would have very little bearing on the fact that one state in one part of the world laughs at people who say "marune" and in the opposite hemisphere they shake their heads at "marone". The same is true of Caminus. Just because it's drawn from a Latin word doesn't mean that we necessarily pronounce it that way today, or that fictional robots on a fictional planet wouldn't pronounce it differently. It's drawn from that word for literary reasons that have little to do with actual linguistics - or pronunciation - in this case, because it means "engine" in Latin, and a few of our other characters and concepts have Latin names, and it's all about machines, so let's go with that. No-one is a native Latin speaker, so talking about the "correct" pronunciation of the word is a fallacy; at the time the word was invented, one accent may have pronounced it exactly like they do on the Machinima show.

The names of Transformers concepts and characters needn't be drawn from any linguistic or literary source. Yes, Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus have meanings in Latin. Hardhead and Silverstreak are common phrases repurposed as names. But names like "Iacon", "Furos", or "Emirate Xaaron"? They're made up, cut from whole cloth, invented. "Furos" was chosen because it sounds a bit like "Duros", the characters original name, and also a bit like furious. It was never intended to mean this or that in any language whatsoever, so getting all in a tiz about it meaning something or other or not at all is not just pedantic, it's a waste of time.

Gok, I recognise that you are interested in this are and I recognise that you've admitted you're a pedant, but please, educate yourself a bit further about language and linguistics before you go any further. It isn't necessarily about the number of languages you speak, it's about your understanding of language and how it works. You obviously have insight and analysis, but you need to understand that language isn't a prescribed set of rules sent from on high, but rather a flawed and beautiful human invention that changes according to the whims and needs of human beings. Otherwise, you're just going to continue coming across as a pedant, and continue getting on people's nerves.

*formally speaking, this event should be called "The States of the Origins", but nobody calls it that. You see my point?

[GoktimusPrime]

Much of what you're saying is in response to stuff that I did not explicitly say. Perhaps I did not articulate myself clearly enough, so I shall attempt to clarify my stance.

Language evolution flagrantly did not halt with the invention of the printing press 600 years ago. Don't believe me? I only need provide one example: Shakespeare.
I didn't say that language evolution absolutely halted, I said that it "effectively halted," perhaps hampered or slowed down might've been gooder (sic) words. And the measure that I use for this is intelligibility. Although there are certainly many differences between Early Modern English and current Modern English, Early Modern English is still intelligible to current Modern English speakers. We do still teach Shakespeare in junior high school in NSW, typically from Year 9 onwards. While it's true that there are many archaic words and expressions, they are still intelligible. I've taught Shakespeare before to Year 9 English students in a socioeconomically disadvantaged public school, and students were still able to comprehend the text. No, it's not as immediately intelligible as other forms of current Modern English, like say American English, British English etc., so yeah, it can be a bit trickier to understand, but it is - overall - reasonably intelligible. Old and Middle English on the other hand are no longer intelligible with current Modern English -- they are effectively foreign languages. As I said, the nearest living relative to Old English is current day Frisian, and if you listen to someone speaking Frisian it's completely unintelligible to Modern English speakers. You might be able to detect some familiar cognates, such as fog, blue, mist, cheese etc., but otherwise the two languages are mutually unintelligible.

You may not agree with this measure that I'm using, but I'm just explaining that this is what I've based my assertion on. The fact that Australian students can read and study Shakespearean texts without having to learn Early Modern English as you would learn languages like German, Japanese, French, Latin etc. demonstrates that they are mutually intelligible. Imagine reading Romeo & Juliet translated in Middle English, Italian, Korean, Spanish, Chinese etc. -- a student who doesn't speak any of those languages would find it impossible to analyse and study the play if it were written in any of those languages. While Shakespearean English may initially appear daunting, it is still inherently intelligible. As someone who's taught both Shakespeare and foreign languages, I can tell you that teaching Shakespeare is nothing like teaching in another language, even teaching integrated content in an immersive language class. e.g. teaching physics in Japanese to my Year 8 class (see more detailed notes on the Teaching Thread).


The chimney wasn't even invented until the middle ages, so the idea that a Latin word like "Caminus" could mean chimney as we understand it today is ridiculous.
As I said, chimney arrived to English from Latin via French. It wasn't directly transmitted from Latin to English. It evolved from Kaminos (Greek) to caminus (Latin) to cheminee (Old French) to chimenai (Middle English) to chimney (Modern English).

References:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chimney
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=chimney
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chimney


The same is true of pronunciation as it is of grammar. Pronouncing a word wrong doesn't necessarily mean it won't be understood. It might mean people will laugh at you, but it doesn't mean you're suddenly talking nonsense.
I suspect that if you were to speak to a non-English speaking Latin speaker and pronounced caminus as "cammyness," they would probably not understand what you mean. You may need to repeat yourself and maybe make gestures or point at a forge or an image of a forge, but I suspect that it would impair your ability to be understood, at least to be easily and efficiently understood.

e.g. sometimes I deliberately mispronounce "apologies" as "apple-logies" (as in the Logie awards ;)), and it throws people off because they initially don't know what I'm saying. Or I say "Avengers" as in rhyming with "scavenger," e.g. "I can't wait for the next "Avvenger" movie," and again, people usually don't know what I'm saying, until I repeat these words again and again and again and usually (but not always) they work out what I meant.

So I think by pronouncing "caminus" as "cammyness," you're likely to decrease the ease by which others can understand what you mean. So this is linked to what is known as communicative competence. Okay, you may be able to maintain communication with poor pronunciation and grammar, but would it be effective communication? What is the level of competency? How would you grade or compare a person who speaks with correct pronunciation and grammar vs someone who doesn't? Would you rate them as being of equal competency or proficiency? So it's not to say that a person with incorrect pronunciation, grammar etc. is necessarily completely incompetent (i.e. unintelligible), but possibly less competent that someone who can speak gooderer (sic).

I have a book called "Japanese Slanguage" which has heavily Anglocised forms of Japanese expressions, which I sometimes use on native speakers for laughs to see if they can understand what I'm saying. e.g. for どういたしまして (doh-ee-tah-shee-mah-shteh), it says "Don't touch my moustache." I went around saying to all these native speakers, "Don't touch my moustache!" and none of them initially understood what I was trying to say. A few of them worked it out and had a laugh. As you said, it may not come across as nonsense, but people will laugh. And if you're trying to be a competent communicator and maintain sustained communication or conversation with another speaker, then I think that having reasonably correct pronunciation and grammar would help with that.


A good example is the word "maroon", referring to the colour worn by Queensland's State of Origin* team. In the UK - where I'm from, and where we have a country called England where we speak English, by the way, not that that's my only qualification here - that word is pronounced with a long double-u sound, such as in "moon", "balloon", or "platoon". In Australia, it's pronounced with a different long-oh sound, as in "loan", "moan", or "float". Neither pronunciation is any more correct than the other (no matter how I may tease my Australian housemates for their bizarre colonial way of speaking). Yes, you could look back and discover that the ancient Vikings wore a deep shade of purple when pillaging Britain, and their leader was a man called "Mahroney" and his name was pronounced one way or the other and anyway this was all before the great vowel shift and I'm making this up, but that would have very little bearing on the fact that one state in one part of the world laughs at people who say "marune" and in the opposite hemisphere they shake their heads at "marone". The same is true of Caminus. Just because it's drawn from a Latin word doesn't mean that we necessarily pronounce it that way today, or that fictional robots on a fictional planet wouldn't pronounce it differently. It's drawn from that word for literary reasons that have little to do with actual linguistics - or pronunciation - in this case, because it means "engine" in Latin, and a few of our other characters and concepts have Latin names, and it's all about machines, so let's go with that. No-one is a native Latin speaker, so talking about the "correct" pronunciation of the word is a fallacy; at the time the word was invented, one accent may have pronounced it exactly like they do on the Machinima show.
Yes, I've already stated this. See my previous comments about language evolution. You may disagree, but I don't think that isolated incidents of mispronunciation are sufficient to classify it as an actual evolution of the word. Unless you consider my "apple-logies" pronunciation of "apologies" to be equally correct as the standard pronunciation. Then I apple-low-guise. ;)

Latin has certainly evolved too. As I said my previous post, some of the main variants are Classical, Vulgar and Ecclesiastic Latin, and even then there are many variants within some of these variants, especially within Vulgar Latin. Even Classical Latin varies depending on which period you're looking at. Classical Latin was spoken among the upper classes in Rome, but your average Roman commoner would've spoken Vulgar Latin, and as such modern day Romance languages are more commonly descendant from Vulgar Latin than Classical Latin, which would partially account for why words like "cheminee" looks and sounds so different from Classical Latin "caminus." I don't know what the Vulgar Latin form of caminus is, I don't know if Vulgar Latin was as well documented as Classical Latin. Ecclesiastic Latin is what is used by many Christians such as the population of the Vatican. When I lived in Japan I saw many church services conducted bilingually in Japanese and Ecclesiastic Latin (because many Christian immigrants in Japan come from different language backgrounds and Latin acts as their lingua franca).


The names of Transformers concepts and characters needn't be drawn from any linguistic or literary source. Yes, Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus have meanings in Latin. Hardhead and Silverstreak are common phrases repurposed as names. But names like "Iacon", "Furos", or "Emirate Xaaron"? They're made up, cut from whole cloth, invented. "Furos" was chosen because it sounds a bit like "Duros", the characters original name, and also a bit like furious.
Yep, I've already stated this in a previous post (see my comparison with fictitious elements/metals like adamantium, vibranium etc.). If people are going to invent completely fictitious stuff for which there is no real life reference, then fine, you can do whatever you want with it because there's nothing to compare. But if you're going to draw something from reality, then people will compare it with real life because there are reference points. Like say the geographic inaccuracies in Revenge of the Fallen - you could argue that in the cinematic Transformers universe that certain things are located differently or perhaps certain countries just don't exist, or borders are different... but when you set events in real places like Washington, Jordan, Egypt etc., then there are real points of references that people will relate to. Having Doctor Octopus generate nuclear fission from a single atom of tritium -- you could argue that in that movie's universe perhaps tritium is somehow radioactive. But not in the real world. And if you're going to explicitly refer to a real compound like tritium, then it's natural for people to make references.

For example, in the languages of Middle Earth, most names containing /i/ pronounce it as "ee" - Isildur (ee-seel-doohr), Minas Tirith (meenas tee reeth), Mithrandir (meeth run deer), Sindarin (seen-dah-reen), Bilbo Baggins (beel-boh bag-geenz), Glorfindel (glor-feen-dell) etc., yet Isengard is pronounced "eye-zuhn-gahd" and not "ee-zuhn-gahd." Apparently there are recordings of Tolkien himself pronouncing it as "eye-zuhn-gahd," although he has stated that Isengard does not come from the same languages which use the short "i" sound. I don't know if the fictitious etymology of Isengard was ever explained by Tolkien beyond it being "what Men call it." But if Tolkien has been recorded as pronouncing it as "eye-zuhn-gahd" then that's the official pronunciation. Some fans have theorised that it may be inspired by the German word for iron, "Eisen."

But I totally agree, fictitiously invented words like Iacon, Xaaron etc. have no other "correct" pronunciation beyond what is presented in these media (and in the case of printed text it may be open to interpretation), unless the author has explicitly stated otherwise (such as in fictitiously constructed languages).

Much of what you're saying is mostly stuff that I would generally agree with. There's certainly nothing you're saying that I would outright disagree with. :) My apple-low-gheez if I had not articulated them clearly enough before. :cool:

P.S.: I would like to propose an experiment over this weekend: would you care to spend some time speaking to your friends where almost every word is deliberately mispronounced? Don't give them any warning or tell them what you're doing, just randomly drop it out of the blue and see what happens. I sometimes do this in Japanese where I speak Japanese with a deliberately thick Bogan Aussie 'Strine accent; I used to do this with my daughter sometimes and it drove her mental! Just yesterday I was doing this with a native Japanese student and he couldn't stop laughing. I might try this on the weekend with some native speaking Japanese adults and see what reactions I get. :D I'll let you conduct your end of the experiment in English and we can compare results. :D If anyone else would like to join in and do the same with English or any other language, please feel free. Try to mangle the pronunciation and/or grammar as much as you can and see what happens.
P.P.S. The French police man from 'Allo 'Allo! "Good moaning, I was p......g by your door." :D

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Names are a funny thing and people can get quite personally offended by mispronunciation.

The photographer of my wedding MANY moons ago was a guy from Queensland. and upon meeting him I said "Hi Grant".
As a Kiwi we normally say the name as Gr-aunt and thus that is how I pronounced it.
He gave me the most horrible frown and said: "My name is Gr-ANT!".

It was quite an unnatural pronunciation for me but I tried my best to remember when I met him to force the Aussie accent out. It remains with me as probably the first time I encountered someone who was VERY particular about their name pronunciation.

Interesting there, as my first assumption seeing the name "Grant" would be "Gr-aunt " as well. A bit immature of him to frown and be all grumpy at what is possibly a pretty common situation.

I always pronounce dance as "Darnce" as opposed to "dants" and often got teased (friendliy like) by my friends for saying "yoh-gurt" instead of "yoe-gurt."

But this name talk reminds me of an episode of the Next Generation where the old doctor lady calls Data "Darta" and Data asks her why she calls him Darta when his name is Dayta. At that moment, I was all like
"that makes sense, so if an American is call Grant, he's probably not a Grarnt"

[GoktimusPrime]

It can depend on which part of Australia you're from. On the East Coast words like grant, dance and answer would be pronounced as "gran't," "dan-ss" and "ann-sir" respectively, whereas in other parts of Australia like SA they would be respectively pronounced as "grahn't," "dahn-ss" and "ahn-sir." But yeah, in Queensland 'Grant' rhymes with 'ant,' not 'aunt.'

Regional variations occur in all languages everywhere. In the UK and the US we can hear a wide variety of variations in different parts of those countries, and the same thing happens elsewhere. As you know there are also regional variations in Japanese. Last year my daughter's Japanese teacher was from Osaka, and for a while my daughter actually started picking up a slight Osaka accent in her Japanese. :o When I took her to Kyoto (she was 2 at the time), she thanked a store lady in standard Japanese (the only dialect that she knows), and the store lady corrected her in Kyoto-ben. ;) The current prescribed film text for the HSC Japanese Extension course has much of the story set in Yamagata, so a good portion of the dialogue which students have to study is also in Yamagata-ben, despite the fact that only the standard Hyoujungo is taught in Australian schools. But the differences between some Japanese dialects are arguably similar to say the differences between different historical variations of Modern English; while there are distinct differences, they are ultimately mutually intelligible.

When we were in Osaka we met a Chinese lady who'd been living there for over 20 years. But because she moved there as an adult she must've learnt most if not all of her Japanese informally from her Japanese husband and other friends, because she could only speak in Osaka-ben. She could understand Hyoujungo but was unable to produce it. It was tricky for me to understand her, but overall I could understand the main gist of what she was saying (similar to someone encountering Shakespearean English for the first time). People like Ode to a Grasshopper would be fluent in Osaka-ben (and presumably in Hyoujungo too ;)).

How about where you live? Are there any dialectal differences there? I lived in Saitama where there are no differences, although I sometimes confuse native Japanese speakers by telling them that I'm fluent in Saitama-ben. It's often followed by a confused pause and comments like, "There's a Saitama-ben?" or "But there isn't a Saitama-ben" (especially when I'm speaking to native Saitama people ;)). Nyuck nyuck nyuck. :p

[Raider]

roflmfao, said no person out loud, ever, probably more than 10 years ago. The fact that the way in which we type, message, text, communicate with each other has changed so dramatically in the last 15 years (how many lol, omg, btw, atm do you see?) is proof of how much our language is evolving. I have overheard younger people having full conversations where most of it was in "text speak". I couldn't understand it all but they all clearly could and they were all speaking English.

btw this thread makes me lmfao :p

And I pronounce is kam-ee-nus :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Actually a few of those terms may be older than suspected. Some go back as far as the early 20th Century (possibly late 19th). The earliest known person to use "OMG" was Admiral of the Fleet, Lord John Fisher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fisher,_1st_Baron_Fisher) (1841-1920).

I hear that a new order of Knighthood is on the tapis - O.M.G. - Shower it on the Admiralty!!
- Lord Fisher, 9/9/1917

These aren't necessarily new words but rather popular expressions made from long existing words. It's an evolution in trend, but it doesn't drastically affect the intelligibility of the language. And this trend has existed since ancient times. There are plenty of such abbreviations and acronyms from Latin such as:
am (ante meridiem = before midday)
et al (et alii = and others)
etc (et cetera = and other things)
eg (exempli gratia = for example)
ie (id est = that is, in other words)
INRI (Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum = Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews)
MA (magister artium = Master of Arts)
NB (nota bene = note well)
pa (per annum = in a year)
PhD (Philosophiae Doctor = Doctor of Philosophy)
pm (post meridiem = after midday)
PS (post scriptum = after what has been written)
re (in re = concerning)
RIP (requiescat in pace = may s/he rest in peace)
sic (sic erat scriptum = thus it is written)
SPQR (Senatus Populus Que Romanus = The Roman Senate and People)
stat (statium = immediately)
vs (versus = against)

And something that can often happen with some forms of colloquialisms is that they can be fleeting. Just last night I was watching an episode of Transformers Animated with Henry Masterson who of course taunts his opponents with catchphrases like, "Total ownage, noobs!" Remember how popular this expression used to be? Another one that I don't hear any more is "GG" (Good Game; used in sarcasm when someone does something bad or stupid), as well as combinations of these like, "GG, noobs." And remember when one-three-three-seven-five-pee-three-four-kay (13375P34K) used to be popular with kids? (WhY My 5h0U1d3Rs hUr7?) :rolleyes: Or people who made themselves sound like they had online Tourette's by randomly mixing upper and lower case letters? jaAM! ;) Or when people used to sing, "Trolololololol" or say things like "rofljam" or "roflcopter." I don't hear these anymore. Now kids are saying, "get rekt," or "you got rekt!" but who knows how long that'll last. :rolleyes: Nowadays kids well say "Nah" in a deeply sarcastic way, but remember when Aussies used to say "Der!" I'm sure you remember the series of skits on Full Frontal known as Great Ders of History (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmPXD7OCmk). ;) I showed this to my Year 11 class earlier this year, and I had to explain to them what this word meant! So yeah, some slang words can hang around for ages (the F-word is actually incredibly old), while others can exit common usage as quickly as they entered.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://australia.kinokuniya.com/events/2
Books Kinokuniya is having a 20% off sale on Japanese text books.

[Raider]

A lot of those terms you just mentioned are still quite popular in online gaming. My point is that these acronyms are working their way into society, in my opinion, much more frequently. Whilst some may not stay, we seem to be using more in direct speech. Overall, leading to an evolution of speech by way of shorter communication.

[CaminusPrime]

As bad as cammyness sounds, it would be more (Latin) accurate than "cah-mine-us." But if you want to say it accurately then it's "KAH-mee-noos."

Or perhaps go with Cameronus Prime or Caimshrònus Prime; Caimshròn being the original Scots Gaelic form of Cameron. I think that Caimshròn might be pronounced as "calm shron" or "cow-shron"... and the "shron" may be "sron" or "sroyn," or I could be completely wrong. I'm really bad with Gaelic phonology because often the reading is so different from the spelling. Irish names are notoriously difficult to read if you've never encountered them before.

e.g.
* Sean = we all know it's "shorn," but for a lot of people who come from non-Anglo/Celtic countries they may pronounce it as "seen" (rhyming with bean, dean, lean, mean, wean etc.)
* Sinead = "shin-aid"; which non-Celts really only know because of Sinead O'Connor. :p
The rest of these names have their readings spoiler tagged, so click and drag to reveal!
* Áine = Awn-yeh
* Aisling = Ash-ling
* Aoife = Ee-fah
* Béibhinn = Bevin
* Brid = Brij
* Caoimhe = Kwee-vah
* Cathal = Cah-hull; Irish form of "Charles."
* Clodagh = Kloh-dah
* Dearbhail = Dervil
* Eibhilin = Aye-leen
* Grainne = Grawn-yah
* Laoise = Leesha
* Méadhbh =Mayv
* Niamh = Neev
* Oisin = Oosh-een
* Pádraig = Paw-rick
* Saoirse = See-or-shah
* Siobhan = Sher-vorn
* Tagh = Teeg
And I do have or have had students with some of these names! (it's funny when we try to render them in Kanji :p)

Although another cool thing about keeping Cameron in there is that it's also a reference to a planet from G1 (where Optimus Prime's original body was ultimately found on Cameron's moon of VsQs in the Matrix Quest). So if you could hybridise the name Cameron and Caminus, then you'd actually be referencing two planets from Transformers lore! :D Camironus Prime?

That's an awesome piece of lore i didn't know! I will probably stick with Caminus prime because I've started to use that for a few things and I'm kinda attached to it now :P, Plus its meaning of Forge or Flame is great of course!
wonder if i could update it here without making a new account aha

[GoktimusPrime]

A lot of those terms you just mentioned are still quite popular in online gaming.
Gaming's for kids!
(says the grown man who plays with toys :p :p :p) </jkz>

wonder if i could update it here without making a new account aha
Ask griffin. :)

Some interesting little videos...
How did English evolve? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIzFz9T5rhI)
How languages evolve (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDKsHm6gTA)
Bear in mind that these are TedEd videos which are meant for school children, so it's light on detail and somewhat simplified for the target audience. Teachers often use TedEd vids to introduce kids to concepts or topics which they then discuss in further detail in class, but these videos themselves are not intended to be online lessons (such videos would be much longer!). :cool:

[Megatran]

Whilst we're on the topic of names, how do people pronounce Letitia?

[Borgeman]

Whilst we're on the topic of names, how do people pronounce Letitia?

On first read I sad Letisha, then I realised I needed to be more ghetto, so I settled with Ley-tee-shah :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Leh-tee-tee-ah. Although its original Latin spelling was Laetitia (lah-eh-tee-tee-ah), the Roman goddess of joy and celebration. I've only known one person with this name, but she (and everyone else) uses the diminutive form, "Lettie." I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Greek equivalent to Laetitia may be Euphrosyne (Εὐφροσύνη), daughter of Zeus and goddess of mirth. She was one of the Three Graces, the other two being Thalia (Θαλία; goddess of good cheer) and Aglaea (Ἀγλαΐα; goddess of splendour).

[Megatran]

I thought guessed the name had French origins. As in pronounced Le-tit-ee-ah

There you go. Three different pronounciations from three people.

[GoktimusPrime]

I've never had to call someone by this full name before, as I said, the only person I know with this name calls herself "Lettie" (cos we all know how Aussies love to abbreviate everything with "-ie" on the end ;)). Also spelt "Letty."

Variants include:
French (Letitia) = "le-tee-seeyah" (https://translate.google.com/#fr/en/letitia) (2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUtjAu4cF24))
English (Letitia) = "le-tissha" or "le-tee-shah" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmmBnLz2TrY) (2 (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/letitia))
Classical Latin (Laetitia) = "lah-eh-tee-tee-ah" (http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/noun:laetitia)
Ecclesiastic Latin (Laetitia) = "lah-eh-teet-zee-ah" (https://translate.google.com/#la/fr/laetitia)
Spanish (Leticia) = "le-tee-see-ah" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADN0UeiyHs)

Other variant and diminutive forms of this name include Leticia, Tish and Tisha.

[GoktimusPrime]

Did my little experiment today. Went up to a native Japanese speaker and noticed that his son was wearing a Thomas and Friends^the Tank Engine jumper, so I asked him - in Japanese with the thickest 'Strine Bogan accent I could muster - 「機関車トーマスが好きですか？」("Key-can-shear Toh-mah-soo gar soo-key deh-soo-car?" = "Does he like Thomas the Tank Engine?"). Reading my Anglocisation of the sentence is actually closer to how I pronounced it, with a sharp rise in intonation at the end of the sentence, kinda like how Kath & Kim might ask a question. He gave me a puzzled look, so I repeated the question. He started laughing and told me that he didn't understand I word I was saying, so I repeated the question. I did this about 5 times. I should've deliberately made a grammatical mistake, like maybe changed the word order or used an incorrect particle or something, but I didn't -- grammatically I was correct, but I was using a super-duper thick Aussie accent. After 5 times he could understand half the sentence. He figured out that I was talking about Thomas the Tank Engine, but couldn't understand the rest of the sentence. After five attempts I just switched over to a proper Japanese accent and asked him a sixth time and he finally understood me and lawled over how bad my previous accent was. :D

Note: I gave him no warning or prior notice of any kind as to what I was up to. I just sprung it on him completely spontaneously to try and get an authentic reaction to see how much he could comprehend if I spoke just regular and even grammatically correct Japanese, just with "incorrect" pronunciation and intonation.

[CHILENO20]

Accents are always fun. Mine is weird hash of Aussie & Chilean spanish. More than once I've gotten puzzled looks from Chileans when I've been back and actually a few times here. :D

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I was at work one day when a customer asked me which part of South Africa I came from. I was a bit shocked, although I've been told the sound of my accent is distinctive. I used to be the telephone voice guy for one job and regular customers could easily pick me when they met me in person.



How about where you live? Are there any dialectal differences there? I lived in Saitama where there are no differences, although I sometimes confuse native Japanese speakers by telling them that I'm fluent in Saitama-ben. It's often followed by a confused pause and comments like, "There's a Saitama-ben?" or "But there isn't a Saitama-ben" (especially when I'm speaking to native Saitama people ;)). Nyuck nyuck nyuck. :p
Apparently the local dialect (well, not that local, but most famous) is Banshu ben. Quite a rough dialect by the sounds of things. I learnt JP in Uni (forgetting quite a bit of it) and have been quite thrown by a few phrases of Kansaiben. Generally though, it's pretty easy to work out what's going on.
わかない＝わからへん etc.
The only one that really threw me for a six was
せいやへん
Turns out it's just しません

I like exaggerating the strine in Japanese to some of my students as well, especially since quite a few of them ask me about accents in English. Luckily I have standard story #4 for that very situation.:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Last Saturday I was in a meeting with some parents from my daughter's Japanese school discussing organisation for the upcoming athletics carnival. One mother spoke entirely in some form of Kansaiben and... uh... yeah... I could understand her but there was a delay, which isn't great when you're in the middle of a conference. Native speakers have no problem, but I kept on "translating" everything she was saying from Kansaiben to Hyoujungo, and by time most of those translations were done in my head I was missing out on what other people were saying on other matters. Which got more awkward when they'd look at me and ask me for input and I'd be like, "Sorry, what was that?" :o

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=22135). Examples of Latin words ending with the "-ticus" suffix and their "-tici" plurals.
aquāticus (water) → aquāticī (waters)
domesticus (house) → domesticī (houses)
lūnāticus (insane person) → lūnāticī (insane people)
opticus (vision) → opticī (visions)
rūsticus (rural area) → rūsticī (rural areas)
etc. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

For anyone here with Welsh ancestry - Britain's Got Talent (2012): Only Boys Aloud Welsh boys choir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AARrVAHnkdY

[GoktimusPrime]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/meme_pharmachien_zpspe1yfrks.jpg

Q: What do you call a dog that sells medicine?
A: Pharmadog.

This joke doesn't translate well, but "chien" means 'dog' in French and chemist is "pharmacie," so "Pharmachien" ... yeah. ;) :p

[Megatran]

This joke doesn't translate well, but "chien" means 'dog' in French and chemist is "pharmacie," so "Pharmachien" ... yeah. ;) :p
Isn't Chien a female name? :eek: Who goes around naming their daughter a 'dog'. :confused:

[GoktimusPrime]

Isn't Chien a female name? :eek: Who goes around naming their daughter a 'dog'. :confused:
:confused: I've never heard of such a name. Any references or links? :confused:

The French word 'chien' (say "sheh") is descendant from the Latin word canis ("kah-niss"). It's related to the English word "canine" which comes from canīnus ("kah-nee-noos"), meaning "doglike."

[Megatran]

Quick google search as it says it's a boy's name. http://names.newkerala.com/baby-name/10036/chien

It's also a Chinese family name.

[GoktimusPrime]

It seems you've answered your previous question then. As a surname it's obviously not a given name (either masculine or feminine), so noone is naming their child "dog," it just that some people happen to have the French word for "dog" as their family name. A lot of people have weird sounding surnames. The Scottish surname Farquhar is often mispronounced as "far-kwah," but in actuality it rhymes with "Parker." You can fill in the gaps. ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

This story's been around for a while, but for those who haven't seen it yet it's a four year old Russian girl who can speak 7 languages! :eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBgadpvGs7U

[GoktimusPrime]

I always thought the word "none" was derived from no one/not one along the lines of contractions like "can't" and the likes.

Ah the joys of English, so many external influences over the years of its development.
Actually, in this particular case 'none,' 'not,' 'one,' and 'any' are actually all original English words. :o

One interesting thing that can happen in some languages like English is that when new foreign loan words are added to the language, the original words don't necessarily all become extinct, but rather continue to live alongside their imported counterparts. But the interesting thing is how words from English and non-English origins meaning the same thing can evoke very different feelings to the audience.
e.g. (L: English, R: loanword)
hearty = cordial
welcome = reception
kin = family
fatherhood = paternity
ship = naval
sea = marine
child = infant
body = corporate
head = capital
first helper = prime minister

Or this...

English Only
Shapeshifters is a workgang rights made by Banded Folksdoms plaything club Good-Brothers and Dawnlandish plaything club Riches Wealth. Firstly a set of shapeshifting playthings branded again from Riches Wealth’s Through-twig and Smallman plaything set, the rights was beginning in nineteen eighty-four with the Shapeshifters plaything set, and looks at gangs of shapeshifting offworld steelmen (most oft the Self-steelmen and Outwit-steelmen) in an endless struggle for overlordship or as and when kinship. In its ten years long lore, the rights has unfolded to beset talestrips, livedrawing, stream games and films.

With foreign loanwords
Transformers is a media franchise produced by American toy company Hasbro and Japanese toy company Takara Tomy. Initially a line of transforming toys rebranded from Takara's Diaclone and Microman toylines, the franchise began in 1984 with the Transformers toy line, and centers on factions of transforming alien robots (often the Autobots and the Decepticons) in an endless struggle for dominance or eventual peace. In its decades-long history, the franchise has expanded to encompass comic books, animation, video games and films.

;)

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=546746#post546746)

The plural for happy is actually happies, so it'd be Triggerhappies. Although 'happy' is an adjective, in this case it has undergone nominalisation and thus behaves as a noun, specifically a proper noun in the case of the name "Triggerhappy." It wouldn't "happi" as that sounds more like the rule for pluralising Latin masculine nouns which end in -us, but Latin adjectives and even non-masculine nouns that don't end in -us are pluralised differently.

e.g. (nominative cases)

Masculine nouns
camīnus (forge) → camīnī (forges)
dominus (lord) → dominī (lords)
porcus (pig) → porcī (pigs)

Non-masculine nouns
domina (mistress) → dominae (mistresses)
ātrium (atrium) → ātria (atria)

Adjectives
laetus (happy) → laeta (happies)
īrātus (angry) → īrāta (angries)

etc.

[GoktimusPrime]

Continued from here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12428&page=84):

Some US spellings actually go back to their original sources. e.g. "color" is spelt without a 'u' because that's exactly how it's spelt in its original Latin. Standard English spells it with a 'u' because the word arrived in English via French. They refer to autumn as "fall" because that is the original English word for that season. "Autumn" is actually Latin via French. The funny thing about Standard English is that "autumn" is the only Latin-based season name that we use - Spring, Summer and Winter are all original English words. If we were to use Latin then they'd be Autumn, Vern, Estiv and Hibern. Which is why the mid-season solstices are called autumnal, vernal, estival and hibernal respectively. The Americans made things more consistent by restoring "autumn" back to its original Anglo form, "Fall."

Americans also unclipped vowels that English speakers had come to clip.
e.g.
Library = we say "lye-bree", Yanks say "lye-breh-ree"

Although American English has also re-clipped itself in other parts, such as:
Interesting = we say "in-chress-ting," Yanks say, "inner-ress-ting"
Internet = we say "in-ter-net," Yanks say, "inner-net."

Other interesting examples beyond English include:
* European vs Canadian French
* Dutch vs Afrikaans
...etc

[GoktimusPrime]

It's interesting how some people are able to sing in languages that they can't speak - and often sing it very well. A friend of mine is an excellent singer in Japanese but can't speak Japanese. At first this came across as strange to me, but then again I imagine that a lot of people who sing operatic songs like Nessun Dorma (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SBSd0G2Nmc) probably don't speak Italian either. And far fewer singers of O Fortuna (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3cXcS49D64) would be able to speak Latin. And there would certainly be a lot of non-English speakers who can sing in English.

P.S.: It's kinda funny how the counting of how many languages a person can speak seems to fluctuate between Latin and Greek in English.

Speak 1 language = Monolingual
Speak 2 languages = Bilingual
Speak 3 languages = Trilingual
Speak 4 languages = Quadralingual
Speak 5 languages = Pentalingual (full Latin would be "Quintilingual")
Speak 6 languages = Hexalingual (full Latin might be "Sexelingual"?)
Speak 7 languages = Septalingual
Speak 8 languages = Octolingual
Speak 9 languages = Nonalingual
Speak 10 languages = Decalingual (full Latin would be "Decelingual")
Speak 11 languages = Undecalingual ("Undecilingual"?)
Speak 12 languages = Dodecalingual ("Duodecilingual")

...and I suppose a person who speaks 0 languages might be Nihilingual :confused:

This is why I point and laugh at anyone who claims that English is an 'easy' language. :rolleyes:

[GoktimusPrime]

This amusing video demonstrates why Google Translate doesn't work (https://www.facebook.com/FallonTonight/videos/10155292130588896/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED) ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

Trump's understanding of world languages is truly astounding. First covfefe, and now his post about Greek. ;) :p

[GoktimusPrime]

RE:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/th_latin_megatron_peacethroughempathy_zpsx6mlqpdz. jpg (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=564357#post564357)

I was initially translated this as Pax per sympathiam (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=23772&page=2), but 'sympathiam' is technically a Greek word which was only absorbed into Medieval Latin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Latin), not Classical Latin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin). In other words, "sympathiam" appeared after the fall of Rome, and thus it would not have been a word that the Romans would've ever used. There's technically nothing wrong with "sympathiam," but I just personally prefer to use 'pure' Classical/Roman Latin. This is not at all meant to be bagging out on Medieval Latin, but just my personal preference. :)

"Misericordia" in Latin means pity, mercy, compassion, love or kindness. It is actually a compound of two words - misereri (pity) and cor (heart). Coincidentally you'll notice that the Japanese word for 'empathy' (共感)... look at the second Kanji, 感. The top radical (咸) is used for its phonetic value (かん), whereas the bottom radical (心) means heart. And 感 basically means 'feeling' or 'sense.' 共 means 'with (others)' or 'together' -- e.g. 共学 = co-educational. So 共感 might literally translate as 'to feel or sense together with others' - in other words, to empathise. :)

Words in English which are descendant from misericordia are:
+ misericord = the relaxation of monastic rules
+ misericorde = an act of clemency, mercy or pity

English doesn't have any words that come from "cor" (heart). The word 'heart' is English, and 'cardio' is Greek. But of course, other languages do, such as French - as seen in the Basilica of the Sacred Heart of Paris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacr%C3%A9-C%C5%93ur,_Paris), or Basilique du Sacré-Cœur in French. As you can see, the Latin "cor" has evolved into "cœur" in French. :)
Corsican (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Corsica) = core, Italian = cuore, Spanish = cuerdo etc. -- it's remained unchanged in Portuguese where it's still "cor."

[Megatran]

Anyone speak Jive?

[CHILENO20]

Anyone speak Jive?

https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/11208/translating-the-jive-dialogue

Buahahahahahaha!!!!

[GoktimusPrime]

The other day I was at ToyMate buying... toys. ;) And the lady in front of me was providing her details to use her Toymate discount, and when asked for her surname she said, "DeJesus," pronounced as "Deh Jeezus." As the cashier was typing this in, I said to her, "You're mispronouncing your name on purpose so that you don't have to spell it out every time, aren't you?" :p :D She chuckled and agreed. Obviously if she were to pronounce the name correctly ("Deh Heh-zoos") then she'd have to spell it out 90% of the time. It's obviously just easier for her to say "Deh-Jeezus" even though it's technically incorrect.

But at least there's an easy Anglocised way for her to say the name that's easy for Anglophones to spell. Some Irish given names on the other hand! :eek:

[Autocon]

On lil big shots there was a four year old russian who could speak seven languages! 😮

[GoktimusPrime]

On lil big shots there was a four year old russian who could speak seven languages! 😮
http://otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=542840&postcount=198
:)

[GoktimusPrime]

Watch this weatherman deliver the weather forecast in nine languages! :eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmP8UbuNalE

[GoktimusPrime]

Inspired by this thread (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=595196), here is a list of what I find are common confusions between Australian and American English. Typically from kids (I guess because they get confused with a lot of American media that they consume) but occasionally from adults.

AU = biscuit / US = cookie
AU = scone / US = biscuit
AU = jam / US = jelly
AU = centre, fibre, sabre, theatre, metre (unit of measurement) etc. / US = center, fiber, saber, theater, meter etc.
Note that we spell "meter" if we're referring to a device used for measuring, e.g. electric meter, water meter etc.
AU = colour, favour(ite), flavour, mould, rumour etc. / US = color, favor(ite), mold, rumor etc.
AU = footpath / UK = pavement / US = sidewalk
AU = nappies / US = diapers
AU = pram / US = stroller
AU = rubbish & rubbish bin / US = trash & trash can
AU = boot (vehicle) / US = trunk
AU = bonnet / US = hood
AU = petrol(eum) / US = gas(oline)
AU = aluminium / US = aluminum (metal) & aluminium (element)

Then there are some differences in pronunciation (aside from obvious accent differences. Australian English is more clipped than American English. Examples include...
INTEREST: AU = "in-chresst" / US = "inner-rest"
FEBRUARY: AU = "feb-bree" / US = "feb-brew-wary"
LIBRARY: AU = "lye-bree" / US = "lye-breh-ree"

Although Americans sometimes clip consonants that we pronounce, such as "inter" which the Yanks pronounce as "inner."
e.g. (US)
international = "inner-national"
internet = "inner-net"
Although this can sometimes happen to speakers of Broad Australian English, especially if they're speaking quickly, and we can hear words like "winter" sounding like "winner." etc.

We Aussies also have a peculiar way of pronouncing double Ts in the middle of words as a soft "d" sound, whereas most other Anglophones (e.g. UK, US) pronounce it as a definite "t." The soft "d" is really a sound that occurs midway between a true "t" and "d" sound, or what is technically known as an intervocalic consonant.
e.g.
butter: Non-AU = "but-ter" / AU = "budder"
water: Non-AU = "war-ter" / AU = "war-der"
And to make things confusing for people who are learning English here as a second language, we're not even consistent with this rule. We pronounce words like "button" with t's but "bottle" withdd. Try saying this sentence aloud and listen to the way you pronounce your T's:
"Someone stuck a button on the bottle."

There are times where we have clearly distinct pronunciations for words which sound the same to Americans. For example, "caught" and "cot" sound completely different in Australian English but are pronounced the same by Americans. Although I personally found this confusing when I was exposed to American cartoons as a kid and wasn't familiar with hearing the American accent. When I first saw the Transformers cartoon I heard Shockwave's name pronounced as "Sharkwave," since the American pronunciation of "shock" sounds like the Australian pronunciation of "shark." Although I knew that the character was called Shockwave in the comics and in toy catalogues (or as Americans would say, "catalogs"), it really confused me.

Another one that bemuses me is how Americans use the word "ass" (rhymes with "mass") to mean both "ass" and another word-that-rhymes-with-sparse. I find it perplexing when I sometimes come across Aussies who mispronounce "ass" as rhyming with sparse and misusing "ass" as a synonym for the word-that-rhymes-with-sparse as Americans do. Americans of course don't seem to understand that "ass" and the word-that-rhymes-with-sparse are two entirely different words with different meanings and different origins. The word-that-rhymes-with-sparse comes from English (aers) and means "buttocks." "Ass" on the other hand comes from Latin (asinus) and means "donkey," but the Romans also used it to mean a stupid person. Hence why Kickback's motto ("Friend is another word for fool") translates as, "Amicus mihi asinus" in Latin.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Latin/amicusmihiasinus.jpg (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=15282)
It literally means, "Friends are asses to me."
Compare this with the Latin saying, "Proximus egomet mihi," which literally means, "The closest one to me is me myself," but more commonly translates as "Charity begins at home," or "Every man for himself." I use both "ass" and the word-that-rhymes-with-sparse, but non synonymously with each other.
e.g. "That dumb-ass got his (word-that-rhymes-with-sparse) kicked."
And again, ensuring that the Latin-based word always rhymes with mass, gas, wrasse and lass, and never with class, grass, glass or pass. Although the "a" in the word-that-rhymes-with-sparse originally was the same as the "a" in words like apple, ash and angry, but it was a long drawn-out vowel and I believe the "r" was unreceived, so it was never pronounced like "ass."

[GoktimusPrime]

Aaah, much better :p #MSPaintCorrections
https://image.ibb.co/jACdop/temp.jpg

[GoktimusPrime]

Did I need to put a page break between my points :p
That would not have altered the meaning of your previous statement:

Oooh, and a Tracks as well.

Looks good.

Fingers crossed for some MP representation.
↑Here there are three sentences and the latter two lack a subject, thus they carry on from the subject of the first sentence which is Tracks. The way that English works is that unless a new subject is introduced, either directly by explicitly stating the subject or indirectly through the use of something like a pronoun, then the follow up sentences can only refer to the initial subject introduced.

Thus what you have said was:
Oooh, and a Tracks as well.
(Tracks) looks good.
Fingers crossed for some MP representation (for Tracks).

English continues the same subject unless a new one is introduced.
e.g. "Jane is beautiful and intelligent. She's well liked."
Note that the second sentence doesn't contain a subject, however the use of the pronoun "she" carries on the subject from the previous sentence; Jane.

With your initial statement, each successive verb continues to agree with the initial subject that you presented as it is the only subject that was presented.
* Oooh, and a Tracks as well. <---this first sentence introduces the audience to a subject. Tracks.
* Looks good. <---there is no other subject or even pronoun used here, thus this sentence continues to agree with the subject from the previous sentence. Tracks.
* Fingers crossed for some MP representation. <---and again, the subject-verb agreement is continued here. More love for Tracks.

I realise that not every language works that way; I don't know how it works in your native tongue, but this is the way that it works in English. As a West Germanic language, English is still relatively more reliant/insistent on the use of subjects (either directly or indirectly) - they are not as omissible as in some other languages. Languages like Japanese can easily omit subjects altogether and the subject of the sentence, but English just doesn't work that way.
e.g.
帰ってきたらテレビがなくなってたから警察に電話した。
↑This literally translates as "Came home and my TV was gone so called the police."
This sounds weird in English because of the lack of a subject. Who came home and called the police? Was it the speaker or someone else? The sentence translated like that in English doesn't specify which doesn't really work in English as it cannot establish a subject-verb agreement (known in linguistics as concordance). In English the verb must agree with the subject. And you cannot establish this agreement if the subject is absent.

Now of course the reason why some other languages like Japanese, Latin etc. aren't as dependent on the use of subjects is because they have other grammatical features that English lacks to help clarify meaning. Japanese and Korean use a grammatical feature known as particles, and Latin uses case declensions. Let's look at two translations for Megatron's infamous line that helped to found the Decepticon movement: "You are being deceived." Let's look at this line in English, Japanese and Latin and break down each component.

English: You are being deceived.
It begins with the second person pronoun "you" which is the subject of the sentence followed by a successive string of verbs. We have the present participle "being" acting as an auxiliary verb in conjunction with "are" in order to form the present continuous tense, but then this leads to the primary action verb of "deceived." This all works to build the subject-verb agreement or concordance in the sentence. It has to because Modern English lacks things like case declensions or particles to tell us otherwise (Old English had case declensions and inflections, but not in Modern English).

Japanese: 「君達は騙されている」
* 君 = you, and this also delves into forms of honorifics which is a whole different kettle of fish
* 達 = pluralises the second person pronoun
* は = topic marking particle, establishing the pluralised second person pronoun as the subject
* 騙されている = verb conjoined in the passive form in the present continuous tense. Thus without needing to use any auxiliary verbs, this single verb alone tells us "are being deceived."
And the thing is that you can omit the first two parts and just have 騙されている and it would still work. It would still mean "You are being deceived," even though I've completely omitted the subject. Subjects really aren't nearly as important in Japanese sentences as they are in English and in many cases can just be left out. And if you think that's funky, check out...

Latin: DECEPIMINI
That's it. That's literally all you need. One verb that tells the audience quite precisely everything that you want to say. You are being deceived. DECEPIMINI in its nominative singular masculine case is DECEPTVS which is where we get words like "deception" from, but when you conjugate DECEPTVS as DECEPIMINI then the meaning immediately shifts from simply being "deceived" to "you are being deceived."

Both Japanese and Latin don't actually need anything else beyond the primary verb; the conjugation tells us what we need to know. 騙されている/DECEPIMINI -- you are being deceived. In English the word "deceived" doesn't conjugate in any other way aside from tense. All we can do with it is take it to its present/future tense (deceive), continuous tense (deceiving) or past tense (deceived). But this is the additionally complicated thing with English, Megatron isn't using "deceived" as a past tense verb. He's using it as a past participle because he's constructing a passive sentence, not an active one. And the difference between the passive and active voice.

Correct and incorrect examples...

* I beat the game ← Correct
* I was beat by the game ← Incorrect
* I was beaten by the game ← Correct
* I beaten the game ← Incorrect
* I have beaten the game ← Correct
* The game was beaten ← Correct

Notice that the last sentence is an example of an English sentence that doesn't require the use of a subject. Japanese works much like this. Such sentences don't tell us who has beaten the game though, only that it's been beaten. If I were to say, "John was playing Fall of Cybertron. Finally, the game was beaten." Since the second sentence introduces no new subject, the final verb continues to agree with the subject from the first sentence.

[GoktimusPrime]

Is SIEGE really that difficult a word to spell? :confused: :confused: :confused:

"ie" makes the sound "ee" as in:
liege (not leige)
field (not feild)
niece (not neice)
chief (not cheif)
brief (not breif)
grief (not greif)
relieve (not releive)
priest (not preist)
fierce (not feirce)
achieve (not acheive)
hygiene (not hygeine)
fiend (not feind)
Masterpiece (not Masterpeice)
etc.

Whereas "ei" makes the sound "ay" as in:
beige
eight
freight
vein
weigh
neighbour
rein
reign
sleigh
sheikh
heir
etc.

It's weird... I'm seeing a number of people writing "Transformers Seige," but IRL everyone still says "siege." I've yet to encounter someone who actually refers to Siege as "Seige" ('sage') IRL. I guess if people really want to refer to Siege as Seige they can, but at least be consistent between one's written and spoken standards (i.e. say it as you would write it).

And yes, I realise that "weird" demonstrates one of many exceptions where "ei" is pronounced as "ee" instead of "ay" and it also occurs in words like protein and weir - but these are exceptions. The majority of English words containing "ei" pronounce the "ei" as "ay." Yeah, English is special that way. :p But still, unless English is your second language... :confused: :confused:

[Sinnertwin]

Funny you mention that, I actually read a similar post by somebody else highlighting the misspelling of Siege today on FB.

Then of course there's

https://i.imgur.com/ALFd7t7.jpg

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Probably more of a point of lazy typing/fingers more than anything else I'd say.

[Galvatran]

Siege / Seige.
Laserbeak Lazerbeak.

Pffff. It’s a forum for fans, not school.

[GoktimusPrime]

Sinnertwin: Yup!
https://i.ibb.co/j4ZND2M/starwars-rougeone.jpg
I love how even Honest Trailers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9-pTStLGGo) made fun of this.
"Guys, you seriously need to learn how to spell 'Rogue.'" :D

Probably more of a point of lazy typing/fingers more than anything else I'd say.
That might make sense if "Seige" had fewer letters than "Siege." And yeah, as Sinnertwin pointed out, it's as ridiculous as people saying "rouge" instead of "rogue."
https://i.ibb.co/mzvKWGS/temp.jpg

I hope that these people are at least consistent in their chosen deviant spelling convention.
https://i.ibb.co/19bYb8v/temp.jpg

[griffin]

Topic closed for review.