Masterpiece style has changed

[primatives]

Hey guys,

I've noticed that the Masterpiece figures have moved towards more cartoon style is that correct? There doesn't seem to be a lot of detail on the figures itself. Noticed with Hound and compared to say my MP Soundwave on the hands and legs there is a lot less detail.

Makes it almost too plain.

[drifand]

It changed since MP01 <- personally that is a masterpiece figure

When the scaling came into place < is a action figure (realistic style)

Then you have a "no paint" period and bunch of "fans" supported this move

Then things changed actually since Ironhide mp "cartoon style" but with paint. this followed with Ratchet, Inferno, Grapple, Megatron, and Sunstreaker. As much as some feel the cartoon look is plain looking, the toy itself actually looks a lot better than the half painted ones Wheeljack, Shockwave, Ultra Magnus < gets away a bit because of size, but the finish is dull.

So its been a while in case you never noticed. Personally I can't care less anymore as Takara was not consistent with the entire line. The fans are divided in actually knowing what they want and whenever TT makes something not great, fans will still find "excuses" to support it. I am glad the line is more or less slowed or even concluded. I am just waiting for MP44 and be done with TFs as TT doesn't seem to be keen in making fresh designs, and even when they do now, it cost $200-$400 for a masterpiece.

I was never a 3p collector, but when I see how much better Fantoys makes TFs, I was easily converted.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Where have you been these past few years?!?! ;)

I?d say the cartoon style with less detailing started with Ultra Magnus though was more obvious with Ironhide onwards.

For me personally I prefer the older style which balanced real-world detail with cartoon accurate design. It wouldn?t bother me so much if not for the fact that the pricing has also increased which gives the impression we are getting less value for money.

[BigTransformerTrev]

For me personally I prefer the older style which balanced real-world detail with cartoon accurate design. It wouldn?t bother me so much if not for the fact that the pricing has also increased which gives the impression we are getting less value for money.

Same, I preferred the older style more. As much as I love them, my Grapple and Inferno in particular feel/look somewhat plain to me in their robot modes.

[SharkyMcShark]

I'm with Trev and Ralph.

I lost interest rapidly around the late 20s/early 30s. Hound looked interesting but when I saw that the robot mode has little fake wheel 'nubs' on the legs I turned completely off it.

[drifand]

Is a bit of a shame, because if MP Jazz does release it be toon accurate while I actually prefer the realistic Porsche 935.

[DELTAprime]

I love cartoon accuracy. It's like they are making the MP line just for me. Except they are charging way too much for them. :(

[Sinnertwin]

Is a bit of a shame, because if MP Jazz does release it be toon accurate while I actually prefer the realistic Porsche 935.

Even then it'll have plastic tyres & unpainted white plastic, so it wouldn't be worth your time holding out for one. No doubt you'll be less than impressed with it.

[UltraMarginal]

For me personally I prefer the older style which balanced real-world detail with cartoon accurate design. It wouldn?t bother me so much if not for the fact that the pricing has also increased which gives the impression we are getting less value for money.
This,

Same, I preferred the older style more. As much as I love them, my Grapple and Inferno in particular feel/look somewhat plain to me in their robot modes.
And This

I'm with Trev and Ralph.

and this.


I really like the styling of a realistic car then giving a good representation of the onscreen silhouette, carrying over some of the detail from the original toy.
I liked the Ironhide and Ratchet MP's, I'm not sure that could have been done much differently given how different the toys were from the show models. MP Wheeljack is probably my favourite representation of this concept. And now that it's looking like they are releasing the 'more realistic/toy representative' version as the + version down the track, since about shockwave? I'm going to wait on hound. I kind of wish I'd realised this was happening prior to buying Sunstreaker as I'd prefer the toy styled head over the animation styling.

I realise that there are many collectors who prefer the animation heavy aesthetic, and I think there is probably a sweet spot between the two what would probably make most happy. I don't think they'll ever get there as it's a simple way to re-use a mould. I just wish they hadn't swapped the 'meaning' of the + version in the last handful of masterpieces.

[BigTransformerTrev]

So its been a while in case you never noticed.

Of course he's noticed. His very first lines were:


Hey guys,

I've noticed

It's the whole topic of the thread - the fact he has noticed






Then you have a "no paint" period and bunch of "fans" supported this move

Can you clarify what you mean by this please? I have dozen's of MP's and not a single one of them is a block of grey. They all have paint. Which exact MP's are you referring to?

Is it you are differentiating between coloured plastics and metal with paint applied on top? Because it's essentially the same make-up; Plastic colourants are chemical compounds made up of dyes and pigments. Paints are also made up of dyes and pigments (primarily pigments). It's just that one is embedded within the material during production and the other is applied after. So coloured plastics are simply a material with the paint embedded. So yeah, curious as to which MP's you are talking about when you say 'no paint'.

And I'd respectfully suggest that anyone who is willing to shell out the money that MP's cost, be that a decade ago or now, would have to be a fan. Otherwise why would they spend that kind of money? I don't spend $90 on a Beyblade as I am not a fan. I spend that much on a Transformer because I am. Depending on what you mean by 'no paint' I think your inference may be mildly insulting to a lot of "fans". Or is it that your definition of a fan is someone that likes a TF figure that you do not? Again, clarification requested.



Personally I can't care less anymore as Takara was not consistent with the entire line.

Then why are you taking the time to comment upon it? :confused:

[Raider]

I like them all in their own ways. Could some be better? Sure. But I'd rather have them as they are than not at all.

To an extent many of the issues identified do have merit but I'm not going to piss all over fans rights to have their own opinions - so long as they aren't stupid or a whinge for nothing more than the sake of a whinge.

[primatives]

Where have you been these past few years?!?! ;)

I?d say the cartoon style with less detailing started with Ultra Magnus though was more obvious with Ironhide onwards.

For me personally I prefer the older style which balanced real-world detail with cartoon accurate design. It wouldn?t bother me so much if not for the fact that the pricing has also increased which gives the impression we are getting less value for money.

Haha yeah its been a while. I check in every now and then and I'm not a MP collector, with the exception of the Gigapower figures. They looked too good!

Yeah I didn't notice the cartoon design until I saw Hound recently.

[hYpNoS]

The changes are driving my bonkers, I liked what mp10 had, a homage to the g1 toy (transformation) and its own thing in terms of design aesthetic (it was just a damn cool looking robot) , sure it wasn't a "collectors" figure like mp01 was but it was a more functional toy and still worth of being a masterpiece.

But take mp36, yeah it looks amazing and its transformation is worthy of that design award takara got, but...why so much paint, on areas far too close to panels, even if you're being ultra careful but without following the manual step by step 100% you're gonna scratch it off...I offer applause to anyone who'd transform him on a daily basis on sheer memory alone

And that's another thing, their designs have went from a way where you can work out a transformation by "feel", you can FEEL where parts go and which order to do them, but now you need to study the given order or risk damage both the paint and parts themselves, not to mention the qc has been degrading (thank you mp coneheads -_-), its why the mpm line was making me happy since they're close to those old ways until we got mpm bumblebee movie version which is a slap in the face (as its not accurate to anything on screen), rushed or giving 3a that little edge I don't know, and honestly don't care, it just sucks.

So in short transformation design isn't to what I prefer and accuracy can be questionable at times (especially since so many g1 mp's now are all front some sides and no back, well the new prime has a good back but its huge and bumblebee 2.0...big yikes from me)

[Trent]

bunch of "fans" supported this move

What is this supposed to mean? Are you implying that because I really like MP Wheeljack I'm not a fan? I didn't realise that there was a minimum standard we are all required to expect to determine our level of dedication to the line. Where does one obtain a copy of these rules? Is there also a secret handshake?




I was never a 3p collector, but when I see how much better Fantoys makes TFs, I was easily converted.

Right. FansToys Springer says Hi. So does Rouge. And Cyclonus. And Omega Supreme. And Hot Rod, Hound, Kickback and Perceptor. They all agree with your assesment of how they are superior products and not in any way complicated, unintuitive, fragile messes.




I am just waiting for MP44 and be done with TFs

Haha. Ahahahahhahahahahaha. yeah right. Just like all these times below that you were done with the MP line yeah?




I just don’t think I can justify paying that much. I would have bought at the $175 marked delivered.

I bought mp44 btw. I just think hound is pushing it a wee too far


Yup, I am out of the MP scene, unless a good MP Jazz appears, I am finding toy companies pushing the prices way to high now. I feel sad. Happy for those who want it.


After seeing the price. I am done with MPs. Exit out of this line. It was great, urm wait not so great.

I can clearly see why TT decided not to release hound now.


I have a lot of issues about this line and several reasons I am out.
Take note I did purchase mp 44 but that’s probably my last toy I am buying for the entire tt line not just mp unless a jazz maybe since 3p doesn’t cut it for me in this instance.

I feel TT has the potential but are not delivering. To me the masterpiece line is just frustrating and has no proper direction. I have heaps of toys with better quality and does transform and cost a lot less than a mp 44.

I said this before, I am willing to pay top dollars but in return I want top quality and materials. Now I only see partial in mp 44 and is not entirely meeting the mark especially at 35,000 not even to mention 50,000jpy.

I don’t even want to discuss about the other toy lines as you hardly see me in any as I felt the toys were expensive and not collectors grade.

Pretty sure I am quite done with the greed of TT. I will not be buying hound now regardless of price point.


This thread should be updated with the latest MP-44.

IMO MP-44 has definitely out priced the product. I am pretty sure we are not paying what it is worth regardless of engineering, paint involved.

As much as I love the piece, but I can't help to say this piece actually crossed the line for me to continue to support. Yes, I bought this but I think I am very done with this mp line unless Jazz comes along.

I have no longer any interest in Hound MP.


Out of interest - what DO you like about TF’s if you don’t like the toys or movies? The cartons & comics?

G1 cartoon.
For Toys, I have lean towards Fan Toys, not all of them, but the latest few as it seems to cater to what I am expecting. When you actually have fun from a product and compare it, you know the differences. But I am down with only Arcee to purchase and I am really quite done. I had never dream of getting these much TFs even to begin with.

I only just lost interest of the MP line lately, hence why I am quitting. Unless TT does a Jazz, I am just observing on the side lines for TT.

The topic if you observe, people are stating the normal line and MP line arein discussion of the extra premium added. But if we know TT the premium is only in engineering, everything else is being cut corners. There are only a handful of mps that TT has wowed me over these few years.


I only know one thing, it is time for the MP line to end.

That is my overall feeling of it. Good in many ways, save me a lot of money.
As for normal toy line, I have not bothered with it.

TT toys quality have not been on par to the toys I do collect. and I have decided to quit thanks to certain retailer as well.
I will not discuss about quality or premium to TT toys and I felt there isn't much. When you see people justifying and allowing compromised quality, I knew this was it there and then.

I hate to say it but the 3p has done a "what is the MP line is supposed to be" and sorry to say they did very well in many areas and even exceed expectations.


I thought for a MP, this should have chrome finishes. But yes I can see people agreeing and disagreeing with this. I can see a price increase lately for masterpieces and is to a point I am thinking whether I really want to vote with my wallet for the quality I am paying.

Good review btw.



Good times.

[Raider]

Quick! Someone call the fire department!

[Autocon]

MPs am I right!

Oh wait this isnt politics...

[BigTransformerTrev]

Quick! Someone call the fire department!

Primus yes - call MP Inferno and Ratchet right now! We need them to deal with a massive Masterpiece of a BURN!

[Seraphim Prime]

I think the biggest change we have seen is the shift from a single designer to a design team with a lead designer and the shifts in that lead designer.

Almost every Masterpiece between MP-10 and MP-23 was Shogo Hasui (who has since moved to the Prime Wars & WFC lines). It's believed that Hironori Kobayashi took over from MP-25, which is where we first started to see the changes in design choices happening. My understanding is that at some point it moved from being just the one designer to being a design team led by Kobayashi and

MP-24 was a special case, designed by someone outside the main team who helped get the fan choice Star Sabre completed without disrupting the other schedules.

So we had:
MP-10 - MP-23 - Shogo Hasui - Balance between vehicle licensing, cartoon likeness and playability
MP-25 onwards - Hironori Kobayashi - focus on cartoon likeness and detail leading to higher engineering to get exact likeness of both modes, at expense of playability. Greater parts counts and accessories as the wider design team gets involved.

[Magnus]

While I agree that the newer figures that placed a greater deal of emphasis on screen-accuracy lose out on moulded detail (at least, the G1 figures do), it does seem that newer figures 'justify' their higher prices from their R&D costs and part counts - they're more complex in order to achieve that greater fidelity to the Floro Dery and Mainframe character models that were never meant to work as actual, physical objects. Cheetor, Dinobot and Beast Wars Megatron look incredible. Sunstreaker is more complex than any Autobot car that came before him.

With regard to the 'loss of playability' - I wonder if TakaraTOMY have figured that since owners (by and large) aren't 'playing' with their toys, they can design them to work better as display pieces and get that greater screen-accuracy and articulation, which is bringing in the more complex transformations and higher part counts.

[Kranix]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the straight toon look, I preferred the earlier Hasui designed figures. They hit the sweet spot for me. Hound was going to be my last MP (on the assumption there will be no MP Jazz) but I can't get into this figure, much the same as with MP Sunstreaker. If I hadn't opened Sunstreaker to check his QC, I would sell him off.

[philby]

Can you clarify what you mean by this please? I have dozen's of MP's and not a single one of them is a block of grey. They all have paint. Which exact MP's are you referring to?

Is it you are differentiating between coloured plastics and metal with paint applied on top? Because it's essentially the same make-up; Plastic colourants are chemical compounds made up of dyes and pigments. Paints are also made up of dyes and pigments (primarily pigments). It's just that one is embedded within the material during production and the other is applied after. So coloured plastics are simply a material with the paint embedded. So yeah, curious as to which MP's you are talking about when you say 'no paint'.



Compare MP Wheeljack to MP Ratchet. Ratchet has a painted finish while Wheeljack is unpainted. Ratchet looks so much more vibrant with that finish compared to Wheeljack.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Compare MP Wheeljack to MP Ratchet. Ratchet has a painted finish while Wheeljack is unpainted. Ratchet looks so much more vibrant with that finish compared to Wheeljack.

No the paint is embedded in the plastic as explained by what you quoted. That's how you get coloured plastics. If Wheeljack was unpainted then it would just be grey like when we get shown prototype teaser pictures.

As to which looks better and more vibrant, that's personal taste I guess. I agree the white on Ratchet is brighter, but I prefer Wheeljack with all his coloured racing stripes and so on to Ratchets rather plain look.

[philby]

well i guess it was a common and easy distinction to me between plastic with a layer of paint applied on top (ratchet) compared to coloured plastic with no paint applied over the top (most of the white bits of wheeljack). thats what people mean when they say unpainted. because it hasn't been painted on.
so if the wheel jack body had paint applied on top of the plastic it would be better. this seems to be what they have done with the wheeljack + version.

[BigTransformerTrev]

well i guess it was a common and easy distinction to me between plastic with a layer of paint applied on top (ratchet) compared to coloured plastic with no paint applied over the top (most of the white bits of wheeljack). thats what people mean when they say unpainted. because it hasn't been painted on.

Fair enough, perhaps I was taking the 'no paint' distinction too literally.



so if the wheel jack body had paint applied on top of the plastic it would be better. this seems to be what they have done with the wheeljack + version.

It would be interesting to see two figures side by side, one painted and the other 'unpainted' to see the comparison. Once again, personally prefer the look of Wheeljack over Ratchet as I find Ratchet too plain, but perhaps I'd prefer a painted to 'unpainted' Wheeljack. Perhaps if someone ends up with both toys they can post some comparison pics of the white on him here.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm not sure why the change in style in any TF line should come as a surprise to anyone. It's hardly a new thing.
Transformers started off as being robots in disguise with realistic alt modes, but then in 1986 and especially 1987 it shifted towards including more fantasy ("futuristic"/"Cybertronian") modes.
Beast Wars also started off being robots in disguise with realistic looking beast modes, but then shifted towards fantasy beast modes with things like Transmetals, Fuzors, Transmetal 2s etc.
Beast Machines started off being ugly but then shifted towards still being ugly but looking more like the cartoon.
The Unicron Trilogy deliberately shifted its focus in each series; Mini-Cons! Powerlink! Cyber Keys!
Movieformers first changed its style with Age of Extinction when they moved away from looking like Transformers(ish) by having robot modes with hardly any alt mode kibble. Then it went through another style shift with the Bumblebee movie which blended G1 and Bayformers aesthetics.
Compare the style changes between the post-movie mainstream lines aimed at kids: Animated, Prime, RiD, Cyberverse
Compare the evolution of Classicsverse: Classics --> Universe --> Reveal the Shield --> Generations etc.

And even the current stylistic change in MP wasn't all of a sudden. The first notable change was with MP10 setting a new standard. It's been a gradual thing though. We've seen toys like MP Ultra Magnus include things like those flippable wheels for greater screen accuracy, for example. It's something that's slowly crept into the line.

[Tha_Phantom]

Beast Machines started off being ugly but then shifted towards still being ugly but looking more like the cartoon.

https://i.ibb.co/h2xPP6p/rolling-on-the-floor-laughing.png (https://imgbb.com/)

[Meister]

So I’m a G1fan, there from the start pre 86 movie, grew up with it. I liked the fact that when I was a kid, those toys looked like real cars, trucks, jets etc and could transform into robots (terrible robots, but robots). I caught up with the MP line around the time MP-10 was released. A close friend of mine decided to reveal one of his guilty pleasures and showed me his collection and I fell in love with it all over again because they looked like the real cars and went to the extent of getting the licencing so they could be a proper representation of the vehicle modes, and when they actually transformed, they looked as close as they could to their animated robot modes (something the original G1 toys didn’t even come close to). For me, this was exquisite and I slowly got hooked. Ultimately I would love to see real life vehicle representation with toon accurate robot representation but realistically I don’t see how that would be possible. So when it comes to the look I prefer for MP’s, its definitely trying to find the right balance of real life vehicle representation with as close as you can get animated representation, and I think the era following MP-10 design to probably MP-22 did that best for me personally. I think the issue for MP designers came when they started delving into 86 / post movie figures. None of those toys were based on any real life vehicles, jets etc, so the designers were faced with the choice of either adding their own real life interpretations of those vehicles or sticking with the source material and try and make it toon accurate, which they appeared to have gone with the latter. But that caused another issue, cause when you placed the post 86 figures next to the pre 86 figures, there was a noticeable difference in aesthetic and styling, and to compensate that, I think they started to slowly favour future pre 86 figures to reflect a more toon accurate representation so they could look better as a whole matching collection. I think the most noticeable jump for me to this new aesthetic was Inferno as it was the first pre86 figure whose vehicle mode didn't look "real".

Personally I’ve decided to limit my MP collection to the G1 Ark crew (with the odd exception here and there), so when I first heard Hound was being released I was on board funds ready and willing, but to be honest, when I saw the official images, it’s the first time I became sort of disappointed. Whilst I love the robot mode, that vehicle mode is just terrible to me, because it was originally based off a real car, and just like Inferno, it does not aesthetically resemble the real car at all. If it had the details of some panel’s etc to make the car appear more realistic I would be in, but that flat plain look just doesn’t sit right with me (even though I get why they are probably moving that way) and for the first time I‘m hesitant to purchase it because I’m unsure on whether they will release a more realistic car as a Plus model sometime in the future (I really, really hope they do). So yeah, whilst I’ll probably end up owning a Hound (preferably a more realistic vehicle looking plus model), I would prefer that they still try and lean towards a more realistic vehicle mode aesthetic for pre86 models regardless if they don't look perfectly matching as a whole collection, simply because those toys were based off real vehicles, and I think if they veer off any more than the balance they struck with Iron Hide and Ratchet it will spoil the MP-10 era aesthetic too much.

[Seraphim Prime]

I'm not sure why the change in style in any TF line should come as a surprise to anyone. It's hardly a new thing.
Transformers started off as being robots in disguise with realistic alt modes, but then in 1986 and especially 1987 it shifted towards including more fantasy ("futuristic"/"Cybertronian") modes.
Beast Wars also started off being robots in disguise with realistic looking beast modes, but then shifted towards fantasy beast modes with things like Transmetals, Fuzors, Transmetal 2s etc.
Beast Machines started off being ugly but then shifted towards still being ugly but looking more like the cartoon.
The Unicron Trilogy deliberately shifted its focus in each series; Mini-Cons! Powerlink! Cyber Keys!
Movieformers first changed its style with Age of Extinction when they moved away from looking like Transformers(ish) by having robot modes with hardly any alt mode kibble. Then it went through another style shift with the Bumblebee movie which blended G1 and Bayformers aesthetics.
Compare the style changes between the post-movie mainstream lines aimed at kids: Animated, Prime, RiD, Cyberverse
Compare the evolution of Classicsverse: Classics --> Universe --> Reveal the Shield --> Generations etc.

And even the current stylistic change in MP wasn't all of a sudden. The first notable change was with MP10 setting a new standard. It's been a gradual thing though. We've seen toys like MP Ultra Magnus include things like those flippable wheels for greater screen accuracy, for example. It's something that's slowly crept into the line.

I think Generations is the only line that can be debatably compared with Masterpiece. All the other examples are a progressive evolution of design characteristics and focus.

The discussion with regard to Masterpiece is unique though in the sense that Masterpiece is really the only line that has been about creating that "definitive version" of a classic character, with the change being more about how different designers view that remit, rather than a change in purpose more generally.

[GoktimusPrime]

and when they actually transformed, they looked as close as they could to their animated robot modes (something the original G1 toys didn’t even come close to).
Of course G1 toys didn't come close to looking like the cartoon because the toys came first (mostly). This is like saying that the Latin word "caminus" isn't accurate to its English cognate "chimney." :rolleyes: The fact is that the G1 toys were never inaccurate to the cartoon. The cartoon was inaccurate to the toys.

Now I understand the desire for screen likeness, but to state or imply that the G1 toys were ever "inaccurate" to the cartoon just isn't true. Even the few toys in G1 that were based on cartoon models (e.g. Galvatron, Springer etc.) aren't necessarily inaccurate to the cartoon; they were based on early designs of the show models - they were, by 80s standards, accurate to those early models. But in the time between the inception of the toy design to the release of the final product, alterations were made to the show models so that they didn't always look the same. This still happens even today, just look at Shatter's head. As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong), Studio Series Shatter's head looks different because it was based on an earlier design. But these toys are as accurate as they could have been at the time that the toys were designed.


I think the issue for MP designers came when they started delving into 86 / post movie figures. None of those toys were based on any real life vehicles, jets etc,
Again, not true. While G1 did increasingly include fantasy alt modes, realistic alt modes continued to exist throughout its entire run. Here are some quick examples:
* 1986: Wildrider = Ferrari 308 GTB sports car
* 1987: Chase = Ferrari Testarossa sports car
* 1988: Windsweeper = Rockwell B-1B Lancer bomber
* 1989: Roadhandler = Pontiac Firebird Trans Am sports car
* 1990: Motorhead = 1987 Callaway B2K Chevrolet Corvette sports car
* 1991: Flame = Lamborghini Countach sports car
* 1992: Falcon = Lockheed F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighter jet
* 1993: Zap = Chevrolet Camaro Z28
As I said, I will grant that they shifted more towards fantasy modes, but it's also fair to say that they never abandoned realistic modes either. And when Generation 2 came along they had an even heavier shift back towards realistic alt modes with few exceptions like the Dinobots etc. - but again, no better or worse than Early G1. Just in unrealistic colours. :p

And Early G1 had its fair share of unrealistic alt modes too, some of which has even carried over into MP, including:
* vehicles with non-street legal decos, like Wheeljack and Smokescreen etc. These only work as robots in disguise on the race track. ;)
* Grimlock. If you want a proper robot in disguise tyrannosaurus rex then get the MP Beast Megatron. Grimlock isn't fooling anyone, no matter how close he may appear in your wing mirror. :p
* Ultra Magnus; okay, the truck cab is a Freightliner FL86, but the trailer is pure fantasy.
* Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime. Alternators/Binaltech gave us a more realistic alt mode for Hot Rod in the year 2005 as a first generation Ford GT.
* Insecticons, Deluxe Insecticons, Jumpstarters, Omega Supreme, Shockwave, Cosmos, Wheelie, Sharkticons et al.

1984 was the only year where every alt mode was realistic; even then, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper's vehicle modes are deformed, and Gears is based on a truck of undetermined make and model. G1 has always a mix of realistic and fantasy alt modes, it's just that we saw a shift during the Middle G1 years (1988-90) towards a greater number of fantasy modes, and then a slight swing back towards more realistic alt modes in the Late G1 years (1991-early 93)... but admittedly it was the Early G1 period that saw the highest concentration of realistic alt modes.

Note: just for the purposes of this discussion I'm counting the weapons/vehicles of Action Masters as "alt modes"; e.g. AM Wheeljack's vehicle is a Ferrari Testarossa (realistic), whereas Over-Run's vehicle is an "attack copter" of fictitious make/model (unrealistic).


Personally I’ve decided to limit my MP collection to the G1 Ark crew (with the odd exception here and there), so when I first heard Hound was being released I was on board funds ready and willing, but to be honest, when I saw the official images, it’s the first time I became sort of disappointed. Whilst I love the robot mode, that vehicle mode is just terrible to me, because it was originally based off a real car, and just like Inferno, it does not aesthetically resemble the real car at all. If it had the details of some panel’s etc to make the car appear more realistic I would be in, but that flat plain look just doesn’t sit right with me (even though I get why they are probably moving that way) and for the first time I‘m hesitant to purchase it because I’m unsure on whether they will release a more realistic car as a Plus model sometime in the future (I really, really hope they do). So yeah, whilst I’ll probably end up owning a Hound (preferably a more realistic vehicle looking plus model), I would prefer that they still try and lean towards a more realistic vehicle mode aesthetic for pre86 models regardless if they don't look perfectly matching as a whole collection, simply because those toys were based off real vehicles, and I think if they veer off any more than the balance they struck with Iron Hide and Ratchet it will spoil the MP-10 era aesthetic too much.
Completing the First Year G1 Autobots is a must-have for me, so when the preorder for MP Hound came out I just threw my money at it. :p I don't collect MPs for realistic alt modes per se (although it's appreciated). When it comes to realistic alt modes I still much prefer Binaltech.

As much as I'm looking forward to MP Hound, as far as alt modes are concerned nothing can beat Binaltech Hound. But of course, BT Hound doesn't give you a G1 cartoon-like robot mode. And with the crazily detailed vehicle mode (inside and out), die-cast metal panels, rubber tyres, working steering and working suspension, BT Hound doesn't just look like a robot in disguise, it feels like one too. :D
https://i.ibb.co/8DmtKZq/temp.jpg
Is MP Hound overpriced? Hell yes. Did it stop me from pre-ordering it? Hell no. :p But I must admit that it's because I am a First Year G1 MP character completist. If I weren't then yeah, I would've abstained and just stuck with my BT Hound.

[BigTransformerTrev]

And Early G1 had its fair share of unrealistic alt modes too, some of which has even carried over into MP, including:
* vehicles with non-street legal decos, like Wheeljack and Smokescreen etc. These only work as robots in disguise on the race track. ;)

1984 was the only year where every alt mode was realistic; even then, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper's vehicle modes are deformed, and Gears is based on a truck of undetermined make and model.

It's one of the reasons I really liked G1 Crankcase. Yes it was an indeterminate type of 4WD (a bit like Gears), but it seemed the most innocuous, unremarkable Decepticon vehicle I had ever seen. It wasn't a race car or sports car or dune buggy or military vehicle or bright green construction vehicle or any sort of vehicle that would catch your eye - it was just a regular 4WD you might see on any road and not think twice about. Awesome disguise! Until he sprouted guns from his windscreen I guess :D



The discussion with regard to Masterpiece is unique though in the sense that Masterpiece is really the only line that has been about creating that "definitive version" of a classic character, with the change being more about how different designers view that remit, rather than a change in purpose more generally.

I would have liked Masterpiece to be more the 'ultimate' version of that character rather than the most cartoon specific. For instance with G1 Bumblebee, I would have liked to see a Robot that looked a lot like the G1 cartoon, a vehicle that was an accurate VW Beetle, and him to come with a Pretender Shell and a Helipack (like his AM version). For G1 Sideswipe I would have liked to see both a missile launcher (like the toy), a long white shoulder blaster (like the cartoon), a jetpack like he often used but wasn't really animated (except for the one time he handed it to Prime) and his Vanguard AM partner/armour. Probably not realistic to expect I know but it would have been cool.

[tinyJazz]

I love cartoon accuracy. It's like they are making the MP line just for me

Same lol, I love the new Autobots. Thankful they didn’t resculpt Prowl’s face for the anime colour version because he’s already perfect.
Also I liked that they’re moving away from panel lines (like from Starscream etc) but it means figures like Siege Jetfire don’t match the aesthetics.

[Bidoofdude]

Same lol, I love the new Autobots. Thankful they didn’t resculpt Prowl’s face for the anime colour version because he’s already perfect.
Also I liked that they’re moving away from panel lines (like from Starscream etc) but it means figures like Siege Jetfire don’t match the aesthetics.

I think having a cartoon-based aesthetic is really good, because in the past, for such a huge show and cultural touchstone that the cartoon is, we've never gotten figures that were only based on the cartoon. That can be a bit frustrating when you look at other things like a lot of DC animated shows of old like Batman TAS and Young Justice, or even in the MCU, that have gotten slavishly accurate toys to the cartoon models.

Transformers has had CHUG updates and G1 reissues, even statues and small figurines but they never quite matched the cartoon 100%, and that I think is why it's so good we have Masterpiece to do that now. It's long overdue for a franchise so big. The designs don't look super complex beyond the transformation schemes that they need to make to be accurate, and have their own charm.

[drifand]

I recon they should have REBOOT an entire different line with the new style. It should have just be consistent throughout, the masterpiece line as an overall is a joke.
Whats more concerning is the ridiculous pricing. It should have been a defined layout, not people guessing "I wait for Toy colours" or some other style..
The annoying we should paint and don't paint was bad throughout, no sense of solid foundation.

Cartoon no cartoon, Takara still remaking same characters and to me its been dragged way too long. I just paid my MP44, I think this is my last piece I ever going to buy, (I know famous last words) but I think I only want a proper MP Jazz.

Do I like the current style? I am actually fine with it. But I also think they should have the realistic version like the Masterpiece prior but again be consistent and just make both and not leave people guessing.
The colours for me pop better because they now paint the figures, they understand is a display piece not a Chugg toy. It was frustrating when fans regard the masterpiece as a play figure hence all the premium I felt was thrown out of the window.
I still feel a lot of the accessories are not needed which adds a lot of extra cost for the worse reasons.

Overall, I no longer feel the same kind of excitement whenever we have a new masterpiece release now. I think is because of same character being remade or just variation colours, it has been dragged way too long because the 3P has overtaken this entire line filling gaps that TT didn't jump on. Masterpiece Beast wars? Is not of my interest so I have no issue if they make new ones etc...

To be very honest, I think style was a minor factor, it was the price that made people either really hate it, instead of being okay with it. I have not bothered to change my Prowl or bluestreak Mps and I have no issue with them with newer Mps.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Did you have a friggin brain aneurism a few years ago that makes you forget what you’ve said in the past? It’s the only reason I can think of that you write the same giant complaining post every few weeks. The thread you post it in may change but the content doesn’t:

A: Masterpiece sucks
B: After MP44 I’m out
C: The rest of the Fandom are to blame for substandard toys
D: They should never have stopped putting paint on
E: I’m over toy collecting

For the love of Primus stop complaining year after year after year and go find something you do enjoy :rolleyes:

[drifand]

I am coming from a toy collecting perspective hence I have zero care about TFs in regards what characters next < unfortunately Takara made it too obvious they are not interested in making new characters.. My focus is on quality toys, and is sad because MANY here do not KNOW what is a good toy from TAKARA in the past.

This is a new Thread, if I bugged you, I done my job of Toy awareness. Up to you to take on board and think how this line went?

I enjoy making people aware what Takara is currently doing and I enjoy comparing what they done in the past.

Currently I feel masterpiece looks better, but justification of price doesn't feel right.

@C Tev, if there is NO PROBLEMS, I can guarantee you 3p will NOT be where they are today.

I didn't say masterpiece sucks LOL, thats the only line that doesn't suck.

Yes I actually left toy collecting especially TFs. I am currently spending money on my house.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Did you have a friggin brain aneurism a few years ago that makes you forget what you’ve said in the past?



This is a new Thread

Bwahaha! No it's not! This is YOUR POST in THIS THREAD back on June 27th:


It changed since MP01 <- personally that is a masterpiece figure

When the scaling came into place < is a action figure (realistic style)

Then you have a "no paint" period and bunch of "fans" supported this move

Then things changed actually since Ironhide mp "cartoon style" but with paint. this followed with Ratchet, Inferno, Grapple, Megatron, and Sunstreaker. As much as some feel the cartoon look is plain looking, the toy itself actually looks a lot better than the half painted ones Wheeljack, Shockwave, Ultra Magnus < gets away a bit because of size, but the finish is dull.

So its been a while in case you never noticed. Personally I can't care less anymore as Takara was not consistent with the entire line. The fans are divided in actually knowing what they want and whenever TT makes something not great, fans will still find "excuses" to support it. I am glad the line is more or less slowed or even concluded. I am just waiting for MP44 and be done with TFs as TT doesn't seem to be keen in making fresh designs, and even when they do now, it cost $200-$400 for a masterpiece.

I was never a 3p collector, but when I see how much better Fantoys makes TFs, I was easily converted.

And then a few weeks later in a different thread:


If we are talking from Transformers POINT OF VIEW, I feel it became worse than 10 years ago. Materials are bad, Quality control is bad, paint is lacking, lot of cut corners using holes in plastic.
There used to be a time I am wowed, and I am not talking about just masterpieces, just decent good transformers. I used to ignore 3p figures completely, now I dont.

I also think Toys today are drive by Fandom. It blinds the majority completely whenever a toy is badly made is been "Justified", in complete denial.
Whenever someone points its flaws or stating is at ridiculous prices, it is purely DEFENDED, and justified.

Toys today for collectors are marked up, plus the ridiculous hype of exclusive and Fear of Missing Out causing a toy going up 2 to three times higher than what is actually is.
Companies such as Bandai make "exclusives" as an excuse to justify a high price when an regular is like 1/4 of the price cheaper.

I no longer enjoy collecting toys as an hobby, I feel some people have taken this on board way out of hand and are spending way too much. I seen people spending more than they earn. Give yourself a reality check, How much were you spending 5 years ago on toys, and compare how much are you spending in just a month now. You be in a real shocker.

And then back to this thread today:


I recon they should have REBOOT an entire different line with the new style. It should have just be consistent throughout, the masterpiece line as an overall is a joke.
Whats more concerning is the ridiculous pricing. It should have been a defined layout, not people guessing "I wait for Toy colours" or some other style..
The annoying we should paint and don't paint was bad throughout, no sense of solid foundation.

Cartoon no cartoon, Takara still remaking same characters and to me its been dragged way too long. I just paid my MP44, I think this is my last piece I ever going to buy, (I know famous last words) but I think I only want a proper MP Jazz.

Do I like the current style? I am actually fine with it. But I also think they should have the realistic version like the Masterpiece prior but again be consistent and just make both and not leave people guessing.
The colours for me pop better because they now paint the figures, they understand is a display piece not a Chugg toy. It was frustrating when fans regard the masterpiece as a play figure hence all the premium I felt was thrown out of the window.
I still feel a lot of the accessories are not needed which adds a lot of extra cost for the worse reasons.

Overall, I no longer feel the same kind of excitement whenever we have a new masterpiece release now. I think is because of same character being remade or just variation colours, it has been dragged way too long because the 3P has overtaken this entire line filling gaps that TT didn't jump on. Masterpiece Beast wars? Is not of my interest so I have no issue if they make new ones etc...

To be very honest, I think style was a minor factor, it was the price that made people either really hate it, instead of being okay with it. I have not bothered to change my Prowl or bluestreak Mps and I have no issue with them with newer Mps.

Suggestions:
1.Get your memory checked
2. Get some new material
3. Get a new hobby and put a smile on that dial


Oh, and I'd check Trent's post a few pages back (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php/26522-Masterpiece-style-has-changed?p=612083#post612083), it illustrates my point perfectly.

[Ralph Wiggum]

There is the ignore button Trev, which I suggest you use before you end up with aforementioned brain aneurism ;)

[BigTransformerTrev]

There is the ignore button Trev, which I suggest you use before you end up with aforementioned brain aneurism ;)

Sage advice my friend ;)

[drifand]

I find nothing wrong with what I stated Trev.
I think you are bothered by the truth of how the toy line went.
If you cannot analyse how masterpieces are going from day 1 then you are definitely oblivious to the changes.

Where did I say masterpieces suck?
New material? Why didn?t you say oh no another one of these threads? So no negative side of masterpieces? Get a grip!
Nice to see I bugged you it makes me more motivated to keep up.

I am now smiling

FYI we talking about masterpieces stick to the topic and don?t attack my post on a different matter.
We are here in this thread talking about masterpieces change of style stick to it!

Don?t come here act big tell me get a life or get a new hobby. I didn?t tell you what to do

[BigTransformerTrev]

Don?t come here act big tell me get a life or get a new hobby. I didn?t tell you what to do

I'm not going to bother to address the rest of the bollocks you have spewed but you know what? You have a point with that last bit.

I would point out I've never said 'Get a life'. But I have told you at least a half dozen times over the last 6 years that you should get a new hobby, since all your posts are always so negative. But I've always done it from a point of saying you might be happier doing something else:



Dude, all jokes aside, I remember writing a genuine response to one of your posts like 3 years ago, suggesting that if you don't enjoy TF's then there are a million other hobbies and interests out there that you may enjoy more.

Seriously man, for your own mental health, find something you like to do more.



Suggestions:
3. Get a new hobby and put a smile on that dial

So you are right. You don't tell me what to do so I shouldn't do that to you and I will make sure not to in the future. I'll just stick to arguing whatever point you are attempting to make.

[drifand]

Anything masterpieces you will hear my same input to current. Any other toy line from Takara I don?t think you see any of my post as I feel they are sub par in quality compared to generation line which still got my interest.
You tired of it just turn me off. I honestly cannot be bothered with you if you don?t want to talk properly about it.

You can?t accept negative criticism about a product. Is simple as that. You took this rather personal hence my string of replies.

So argue then ? I currently do like the style is going so what is wrong with that? Other than price is it I cannot whinge that the masterpiece line went up considerably?

As a collecting prospective I said it?s a joke and is because is like the company has no direction in what to do. This is not to say masterpieces suck. There are time no paint and now there is, if they were that bad , I would have not bothered to buy them. The people are talking in discussion that the toon version may look too plain and simple and I do agree in that aspect. However the quality has improved in my opinion over the old MPs.

For the record the MPs that I was bugged like wheeljack not painted I bought the plus version and sold off the original. The rest didn?t bothered me as much.

And I didn?t ordered Mp hound. Not because it wasn?t nice, is because the price was way up for a small figure for me. Hence my last piece was mp44.

[Raider]

I find nothing wrong with what I stated Trev.
I think you are bothered by the truth of how the toy line went.
If you cannot analyse how masterpieces are going from day 1 then you are definitely oblivious to the changes.

Where did I say masterpieces suck?
New material? Why didn?t you say oh no another one of these threads? So no negative side of masterpieces? Get a grip!
Nice to see I bugged you it makes me more motivated to keep up.

I am now smiling

FYI we talking about masterpieces stick to the topic and don?t attack my post on a different matter.
We are here in this thread talking about masterpieces change of style stick to it!

Don?t come here act big tell me get a life or get a new hobby. I didn?t tell you what to do

I think Trev's point is not so much whether you are right or wrong mate, but that you have been posting the same negative stuff over and over and over and over..... for a long time.

Personally, I'd love to see a post from you that was positive or cheerful in some way. It just seems that coming here and posting about things you don't like can't make you feel good. There must be something about this hobby you enjoy or why bother?

Personally, whilst MPs are far from perfect, I'm not too picky and just want to see them finish off the 84 crew.

[Sinnertwin]

I don't understand why you would spend close to $500 on a product (MP44) if you consider the line is getting too expensive.
You're really only adding to TT's sales & encouraging them to promote their lines at higher prices. I would have thought after the numerous repetitive posts regarding their prices, you'd be the last person to purchase an MP product.

[drifand]

I bought mp44 because I was not happy with mp10. Mp44 is over $500.
Now price wise I have to agree I hate it. Yes I consider it too expensive.
I either get bugged by mp-10 for the rest of my life because I do actually display and see it almost every day, and continue be bugged by it regardless I tried buying both versions hasbro or TT.

I bought it also because imo 3p primes didn?t made it, if you know me I am particular about paint and is no exception to 3p. So I am being very fair, I am not just saying 3p is the best, in this situation is not.

Why not wait for ko? Let?s not go there.

Made the hard decision and You are not wrong, part of me wondering why did I do it another says let?s get it done and be done. If Fantoys reveals an Optimus of what I want, yeah I maybe just sell mp44. Mp44 has things I like and things that well not fantastic but I prefer it over mp 10. One big reason is because it?s Optimus not any other character that I actually not bothered. If I have no Optimus then I actually am not bothered with my entire mp line.

I also loved sunstreaker mp and I know some hate it.

Here?s the thing though, would people prefer a toon Jazz or one that becomes a real Porsche 935 with the actual martini racing prints? I personally prefer the real version.

[drifand]

@Raider

I only try and post and update on a new thread for discussion. I am just straight up, if you cound been better it should have been. It comes to a point when one says enough is enough. Mp hound just became priced too far out. I do have Fantoys willie so that contribute to me stopping. Maybe I didn?t check and thought this was a New thread and for that I apologize

If a toy is good, is good, I loved sunstreaker mp. I felt that should have been the standard all along despite I desired rubber tyres like the binaltech line.

I was actually less picky when mps are like $70 a piece, as much as I wanted paint it was what it was. When I stated it on the spot it is for that reason.

I had no negative about inferno, I felt it was great, I had no issues with ironhide either.

I do feel the shockwave look underwhelming and again due to lack of paint and being too plastic. When you put it next to megatron mp36 it just miles apart.

You can?t just keep praising a company for not doing the right stuff. I just want to be clear, I wanted takara to succeed not fail.

I have zero positive things to say about the current tf seige line hence I absolutely never take part in any threads. And I will stay that way. Even ghost busters mp I did say great effort and I meant it. How was that negative in that aspect?

I actually treat all other brands the same not just Takara. Even Bandai gets criticised by me when I feel it could have been better. For the prices we pay today I think is actually valid.

[Kranix]

Personally, I don't mind that they changed the style but I wish they had of kept the single aesthetic until they completed the Real car series instead of changing in the middle. However from their POV I guess they get to sell the same bots again in the + series, so more profit.