COVID-19 updates comments and concerns

[1AZRAEL1]

Got abused by a Social Distance Warrior (my phrase I coined it lol, someone taking it upon themselves to tell people off) for not doing enough to monitor social distancing. Beyond me making announcements to people, what else can I do? If I had to call the police every time people didn't adhere to social distancing or listen to me, I'd have police on my train the whole time. It's not possible.

[griffin]

This page is worth a read (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0), for a look at how each state has been with the virus... including the sharp increase in Victoria, overtaking all other states in terms of case numbers and per-capita numbers.

The state-based graphs also show that NSW is currently where Victoria was 4 weeks ago, when they had just one area as a hotspot, with daily case numbers in the teens... which became 40-50 3 weeks ago, to 70-80 2 weeks ago, to 200-300 last week to today.

Worldwide, the only measure that has proven to work in reducing the virus numbers (not even trying to eradicate it), is total lockdown that only has people out of their houses for vital services, food/medicine shopping, and employment that isn't in the services sector and observes social distancing and cleaning. New Zealand did it, Singapore did it, Australia did it, and even New York did it... but every location or country that re-opened before the virus was eradicate, EVERY country, has seen a resurgence of the virus.

And countries that do eradicate the virus (like Australia and New Zealand) only takes one slip-up for the virus to repopulate (the quarantine hotel breach in Melbourne and the quarantine breach in New Zealand)... and no matter how much testing is being done, no matter how many people are tasked to find all contacts that could be infected, and how much we have selected suburbs being told to not travel out of their area, the virus will not be contained while people are allowed to mingle in public, especially before they know that they are infected (if they are eventually tracked down as a contact of someone else).
I would recommend QLD close its border again to NSW, and any states that are still virus free, to open up to each other. Then NSW and VIC need to go back to the April-May level of lockdown, to kill off the virus again... and they have to realise or remember, that a lockdown takes about 1 week to take effect, so what ever the daily case numbers are when you start it, double it and that will be the peak, with more deaths from the higher number.
It might not be something people there want to return to (especially for people who never returned to work since the first lockdown started), but if NSW locks down now, it will take less time to kill off the virus and return to the process of re-opening.... the state will only have a peak of 100 cases a day, which should limit deaths to 4 or 5. This would compare to waiting a couple weeks, with the virus hitting 100 cases per day, thinking in vain that the virus could be contained while people are able to interact with each other (masks, hand-washing and social distancing reduces the spread, but doesn't prevent it... and that's only if every single person does all three, which we know will never happen here).
If the state waits until 100 case per day to start acting, it will be another week of increases and deaths before the lockdown takes affect on reducing case numbers.

The same with QLD - they need to close the border now before any infected NSW people enter (with most going to themeparks and holiday locations that have concentrations of people, many of whom also travelled there from somewhere else, taking the virus back with them to more places, than if it was just a hotspot in a suburban location). Business groups and tourist companies have been pressuring the QLD government to open up the border, and they are not going to let it shut back down, even after we have virus cases show up in the state. But they need to understand that, if they close the border before the virus gets in, they can still do business with people from SA, WA, NT, TAS and QLD... however, if they force the border to stay open to be selfishly trying to make money from people in NSW, 2-3 weeks after the virus starts showing up here, every business in QLD will have to shut down again completely, preventing them from doing business with any state, including their own.
Having an economy crawling along at 50% and remain virus free, is much better than having a 70% economy for just 2-3 weeks and be operating at 0% for another couple of months during a new lockdown.
Since I'm in QLD, this bothers me, because it was really feeling like life was back to normal up here with more people returning to work and schools back to normal, without a risk of being infected after 3 months of no new domestic cases and our premier being so tough with locking up our borders for longer than necessary. But now I feel that with the state election just 3 months away, she is going to bow to business groups to not close the borders while there are no cases found within QLD... even though it will be too late after cases are found here. (if she closes the borders before infections appear, she will be targeted as being too hasty, but then how do you prove that it was the right time to do it)


The third alternative is to slog through the virus like in America, with businesses open for about 2 months, before too many cases and deaths force people to shut down voluntarily to avoid getting sick themselves (or infect their elderly relatives and friends).

Some stats are circulating on facebook at the moment about the true cost in lives and value to the economy if the virus worked its way through all of America, resulting in the average of 1% death-rate and the 10% of people who will have life-term health problems after recovering from the virus.
1% sounds really small, but in America that's 3.8 Million people dead, which would be the entire population of Brisbane wiped out. Each death costs money to the businesses they work for (if they were employed), and costs money to the families they were providing for, not to mention the insurance payouts of those who are life insurance.
Then look at the 10% of people who will never work again (another 38 million people - more than the population of Australia), or even be able to live life to the full ever again, needing constant medical treatment or assistance, as people who ended up with serious symptoms leave hospital with damaged lungs, organs and nervous systems. That's an extra 10% of people on the welfare system, who will be costing hospital systems through ongoing treatments (and the original covid treatment, on expensive ventilators and Intensive Care beds).
That's at least 11% of the entire population removed from the employment pool, and collecting welfare instead of paying taxes.
All the talk from business groups and politicians about lockdowns costing the economy... preventing deaths and serious illness, would save the economy more in the long run.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Covid-19 is very efficient in finding holes in a country's pandemic response. In Australia, it was initially the Ruby Princess, and it's now Victoria's quarantine process. In Singapore, it is the migrant working population. In America, it is...well everything.

Speaking as a someone lucky enough to be in W.A., I'm befuddled as to how Queensland and NSW don't immediately close their borders. I guess there's a real normalisation of travelling up and down the East Coast that us Sandgropers can't relate to. We feel pretty isolated ourselves so the idea of closing the border hasn't been given a second thought.

[G1Optimal]

I heard from somewhere the nsw will go back into lockdown when they reach 100 cases
I think it was the news

[dirge]

Speaking as a someone lucky enough to be in W.A., I'm befuddled as to how Queensland and NSW don't immediately close their borders. I guess there's a real normalisation of travelling up and down the East Coast that us Sandgropers can't relate to. We feel pretty isolated ourselves so the idea of closing the border hasn't been given a second thought.

Part of it is the fact that there are border cities.

The reality is that Albury-Wodonga functions as one unit - Wodonga's (landline) area code is a NSW code, for example. Similarly, Tweed Heads (and Tweed Heads West, Banora Point, Kingscliff, Tweed Heads South etc) is a suburb of the Gold Coast.

There was a not unreasonable suggestion by the mayor of the Gold Coast this week that the "line" for the purposes of the Queensland bubble be drawn at Banora Point (which is on the north bank of the Tweed River). The catch with that is that Kingscliff & Chinderah are two suburbs on the south side of the river... and you'd be splitting the Tweed Shire up - making the delivery of services (such as rubbish collection) very difficult. Sure, the garbage trucks could be waved though, but they'd still be caught in the checkpoint queues. How to you ask garbos to spend 3 hours of overtime on every shift waiting to pass the checkpoint?.

I guess a Perth equivalent would be... do you cut off at Bibra Lake? Rockingham? Mandurah? No matter where you draw the line, you're bisecting interconnected settlements.

[Dan]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there such a thing, yet, as face masks made to look like the lower faces of Prime, Soundwave, Wheeljack etc?

[High_Q]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there such a thing, yet, as face masks made to look like the lower faces of Prime, Soundwave, Wheeljack etc?

I'd like to know too. I checked the Internet but found nothing fit for purpose within a reasonable price range. How hard can it be to design it to look like a OP or SW's faceplate?

For Wheeljack's design, i think we can get away from wrapping a bandage around our nose and mouth area like a mummy :D.

[Dan]

For Wheeljack's design, i think we can get away from wrapping a bandage around our nose and mouth area like a mummy :D.

That 'bandage' look is already rather surgical. Hey maybe it even contributed to my childhood conflation of Wheeljack and Ratchet as the same character. :)

[SharkyMcShark]

I'd like to know too. I checked the Internet but found nothing fit for purpose within a reasonable price range. How hard can it be to design it to look like a OP or SW's faceplate?

For Wheeljack's design, i think we can get away from wrapping a bandage around our nose and mouth area like a mummy :D.


Ive seen a Prime one floating around the net (reddit I think)

[griffin]

The numbers in Victoria are staying stubbornly high around 400 each day... but I guess the good thing about that is that it stopped increasing at the same rate it was in the first three weeks of this current outbreak (20s in the first week, 80s in the second week, 200s in the third week). The fact that the numbers aren't going back down like last time, suggests that people are still interacting with each other too much in public. Even though the VIC government is offering to pay people to get tested ($300, and then $1500 if they are positive, so that they don't keep going to work while waiting for the test results), people probably don't trust what government says, even if they are a popular one at the time. (and the payment probably takes a couple months to be processed and paid, which could be too late to pay for bills or food if they live week-to-week on minimum wage or a family)

NSW on the other hand, is surprisingly still having its case numbers stay in the 10s-20s.... considering how spread out the cases have been so far. In Victoria, most of the cases were in Melbourne, but in NSW, most of the cases have been outside of Sydney. Maybe that will change as cases show up in the city and then spread more easily as more people are concentrated together.

Tasmania, WA, SA and NT have set up a travel bubble, but not with QLD, probably while they keep their border open with NSW. I expect cases to show up in QLD by the end of next week from NSW, as people try to escape the virus, but end up bringing it with them. Once the virus shows up in QLD, it will follow NSW and VIC, attempting to test and trace a virus that is always 2-4 days ahead (when the news programs alert people to a case in certain area and that people need to get tested, it is always a few days ago, and everyone at that location during that time have already travelled around other areas and had contact with lots of other people).
QLD needs to re-close its borders (if it isn't already too late, as hundreds of people have given false details or not declared being in virus zones), and then be able to join the travel bubble. With most of the NSW population now considered a prohibited hotspot, QLD businesses who were demanding the border to be opened to NSW, would make more from the other "clean" states, than the limited number of NSW people who are currently allowed in. It would also give QLD earlier access to New Zealand when they open up their borders to Australian states that have no current outbreak.

The medical experts have mentioned that they can trace a strain of the virus (when they noted that all of the VIC cases came from one of the quarantine hotels), so I'm thinking that this more contagious outbreak means that the March-May outbreak killed off the weaker strains, leaving behind the more aggressive strains behind. It would explain how "second waves" are often worse than the first outbreak, despite communities and people already experienced in combating the virus, and more people are taking preventative measures than before (masks, distancing, staying home, testing, washing).

The number of deaths in Victoria is something people should know who are opposed to adhering to community guidelines on preventing the spread, as 1 out of every 100 people infected will die... and 1 in 10 will have life-long debilitating effects (nerve damage, lung damage, brain damage, organ failure, trouble walking, etc.).
There is no way of predicting who it will be, so it could be someone you know or are related to if you get infected and think you are too young to die from it. And a reminder of the much rarer, but still possible occurrence, to people on the other end of the age scale (children), who are still being struck down in more infected countries by the mysterious anti-body reaction, who had caught the virus without symptoms and now had anti-bodies that are supposed to protect them, but are being violently rejected by their immune system.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Welp, it's back in Queensland. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-29/coronavirus-queensland-parkland-christian-college-woman-positive/12499794) :(

[DELTAprime]

Welp, it's back in Queensland. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-29/coronavirus-queensland-parkland-christian-college-woman-positive/12499794) :(

Well, damn!

[griffin]

Like I've been saying. Short term gain from having NSW tourists coming to QLD to spend their money, will be undone by long term lockdowns when we end up like VIC in a few weeks time.
As soon as the virus spread into NSW from VIC, there was no way it could be guaranteed that certain areas of NSW were free of the virus, as it takes 3-4 days for outbreak areas to be identified and the public alerted, and it only takes half a day to travel into QLD by road (or just a few hours by air).... and yet, the QLD premier kept the border open to everyone that wasn't from a *known* area of infection. Any area that had a new outbreak, had at least 3-4 days before it was on the exclusion list, and by then, an infected person could have already travelled into QLD (freely). As soon as the QLD government started adding parts of NSW and Sydney to their exclusion list, and the list was growing, everyone else who wanted a holiday before the expected lockdown, started flocking into QLD trying to escape the virus (but ended up bringing it with them).
Some of the outbreak locations in NSW & VIC have clocked up 30-60 infections, so even if we are lucky to have most people not infect anyone else, it just takes one of these "super spreaders" to enter QLD before their location is on the exclusion list, an infect 30 other people in high-traffic tourist locations that most NSW people are heading to.

We had all these sports teams move to QLD a couple weeks ago, and if we start having 10-20 cases per day like in NSW (and VIC 4 weeks ago), they are all going to have to re-locate again, or end the season early if the remaining states don't have the resources to host dozens of teams from several sports codes.

[griffin]

8 days... they were wandering around a large portion of brisbane for 8 days before this came to light. And the 2 people only get fined $4000 each. They should be paying for the costs of testing, deep cleaning and business closures from these two.
And judging from the work those 2 have done on their faces (not even 20 yet), they are probably loving the attention they are getting with their faces on tv every 5 minutes.

[christalcase]

It's very frustrating when this happens, and they only get a minor slap in the wrist relative to the potential (and let's face it, almost certain) spike in infections and financial costs that they will cause. This is why the declaration system is flawed when you just trust people to properly disclose information, because there will always be a group who don't care and lie. These very people are filming themselves deliberately antagonising and breaking the rules to post online to get views, it's so screwed.

And now you have the tourism group complaining about the border shutdown to people from Sydney, when the alternative is wait for it to inevitably cause a spike in infections in Qld and close the whole state again. Just when I felt it was almost back to normal this happens in my area...

[griffin]

After a lower number for Tuesday of 295 new cases for VIC, Wednesday gave us a new record of 723 new cases... and 13 more dying.

[reillyd]

8 days... they were wandering around a large portion of brisbane for 8 days before this came to light. And the 2 people only get fined $4000 each. They should be paying for the costs of testing, deep cleaning and business closures from these two.
And judging from the work those 2 have done on their faces (not even 20 yet), they are probably loving the attention they are getting with their faces on tv every 5 minutes.

The news got worse, as only one of the two is revealing where they went (seems they didn?t both stick together) so we can?t do contact tracing of businesses and places the other one went to. They face court tomorrow though

[DELTAprime]

And judging from the work those 2 have done on their faces (not even 20 yet), they are probably loving the attention they are getting with their faces on tv every 5 minutes.

OMG. I just looked up these two idiots. Those are two of the most unnatural looking faces I've seen since Micheal Jackson. Clearly they want to look like the Kardashians but the skill of their surgeon wasn't up to the task.

[SMHFConvoy]

Well that didn't take long to go from outrage to body shaming in one day and yet no one is concerned that 2 people of colour were pretty much fixed by the Australian MSM, yet other people who have acted much the same have not because they come from more, "affluent" suburbs across Australia.

[DELTAprime]

Well that didn't take long to go from outrage to body shaming in one day and yet no one is concerned that 2 people of colour were pretty much fixed by the Australian MSM, yet other people who have acted much the same have not because they come from more, "affluent" suburbs across Australia.

So I should have also posted my outrage at yet another medical professional from Rockhampton putting CQ at risk of COVID a couple of days ago???

[Skullcruncher]

Well that didn't take long to go from outrage to body shaming in one day and yet no one is concerned that 2 people of colour were pretty much fixed by the Australian MSM, yet other people who have acted much the same have not because they come from more, "affluent" suburbs across Australia.

Pretty sure there is no other case like those 2, a few have tried to sneak around and got caught but these two have just shown total contempt, their planning to do what they did is pretty infuriating for someone close to the aged care sector in Melbourne. Even the stealing of the bags in Melbourne, what the?!?!?!

[SMHFConvoy]

Still to name and shame, that's not the Media's responsibility, it's been said there's an investigation underway and charges to be laid. The media has exceeded it's reach and we all should be very concerned.

[dirge]

Well that didn't take long to go from outrage to body shaming in one day and yet no one is concerned that 2 people of colour were pretty much fixed by the Australian MSM, yet other people who have acted much the same have not because they come from more, "affluent" suburbs across Australia.

I couldn't care less about the colour of their skin or their "background" - I also don't particularly care about their overdone botox jobs (which is more sad than anything else). I DO care about their wanton recklessness.

I feel the same anger towards these two as the couple (no idea whether they were Pacific Islander, white, black, Asian or Jovian) from Southbank who got stopped at a police checkpoint on their way to their holiday house on Philip Island with a warning, who then got FINED at a second checkpoint on a different route. Both cases of people who are selfish, possibly at the expense of the LIVES of othes.

[nalops]

Most of the backlash seems to be from the fact that everyone's hard work in containing the virus in Queensland has seemingly gone to waste. That's a situation that hasn't really happened in the other states. If we still had daily cases up to this point, it definitely wouldn't have received so much attention.

However, they have not done themselves any favours with their behaviour. From attending an illegal Melbourne party to lying to border control and now refusing to co-operate with police, it's all a bit hard to feel sorry for them in the slightest.

We've already had multiple anti-mask people be named and shamed on mainstream media and that Eve Black woman was found and arrested for lying to border control so I kind of have a hard time believing they're being targeted solely because of their race and/or wealth.

I do however agree that it was a bit too early to identify them but if they didn't want any backlash, they shouldn't have done it in the first place.

[SMHFConvoy]

I couldn't care less about the colour of their skin or their "background" - I also don't particularly care about their overdone botox jobs (which is more sad than anything else). I DO care about their wanton recklessness.

I feel the same anger towards these two as the couple (no idea whether they were Pacific Islander, white, black, Asian or Jovian) from Southbank who got stopped at a police checkpoint on their way to their holiday house on Philip Island with a warning, who then got FINED at a second checkpoint on a different route. Both cases of people who are selfish, possibly at the expense of the LIVES of othes.

You still took the time to dunk their "overdone botox jobs" though, their appearance has no bearing on their irresponsible actions but you still had to say it.

[SMHFConvoy]

Most of the backlash seems to be from the fact that everyone's hard work in containing the virus in Queensland has seemingly gone to waste. That's a situation that hasn't really happened in the other states. If we still had daily cases up to this point, it definitely wouldn't have received so much attention.

However, they have not done themselves any favours with their behaviour. From attending an illegal Melbourne party to lying to border control and now refusing to co-operate with police, it's all a bit hard to feel sorry for them in the slightest.

We've already had multiple anti-mask people be named and shamed on mainstream media and that Eve Black woman was found and arrested for lying to border control so I kind of have a hard time believing they're being targeted solely because of their race and/or wealth.

I do however agree that it was a bit too early to identify them but if they didn't want any backlash, they shouldn't have done it in the first place.

Tell me, do you think the SMH or the Courier Mail will call Eve Black, "Enemy of the State"? That idiot from Bunnings screaming about her rights was given airtime on Seven before she was arrested. The attendees from the Melbourne party haven't been named, there's no need to but for "some reason" the Courier Mail decided that it was okay to make these 2 the face of Covid-19 in Queensland.

[nalops]

I get what you're saying. The media has been way too happy to take them down. I certainly would've waited to reveal their details, if at all and hope no-one decides to take justice into their own hands or something crazy like that and they should probably have police protection for a while.

Again, it's the fact that Queensland had 0 new community transmitted cases in so long and only 4 active that's making this a bigger deal than it would've been. We were so close. Unfortunately for them, they are the face of Covid-19 in Queensland because without them, we wouldn't have it spreading again. It'll certainly be horrifying if people end up dying because they were so reckless.

Could be definitely wrong but I have a feeling anyone, regardless of background, who'd done what they did, would be condemned. In saying that, I'm sure this'll blow over. It always does. As strong as the outrage against them is right now, it'll promptly be forgotten in favour of something new that people hate.

[griffin]

There must have been a third person with the two ladies that have been featured on the news, as three people have now been officially charged with several offences pertaining to fraud (false information), with a potential penalty of up to 5 years in prison and fines of up to $13,000 each. If people start dying from the virus and it can be traced to these three people, then I hope they end up with the full penalty, as their attitude so far suggests that they aren't going to know or care about other people dying from their actions, or be financially responsible for the millions of dollars that will now be spent on testing and tracing, closing and cleaning, and paying people to stay home while waiting for test results or if they test positive. I bet they even set up a go-fund-me type page to avoid paying any fines placed on them, avoiding any culpability or liability burden.
(all of this would have been avoided if the QLD premier had closed the border when the virus started showing up in NSW from Victoria, and there was no way of guaranteeing any person in NSW was not infected just because they weren't from a known hotspot, which is only known days after the virus has spread to that area - these 3 people then would have been tested and forced into hotel quarantine, regardless of if they had admitted to being in Victoria)


Well that didn't take long to go from outrage to body shaming in one day and yet no one is concerned that 2 people of colour were pretty much fixed by the Australian MSM, yet other people who have acted much the same have not because they come from more, "affluent" suburbs across Australia.

I haven't heard anything on the news yet that even implied that these people were highlighted because of their race, but because these people have so far been the most intentionally deceptive to fly down to Melbourne to party (and allegedly shoplift) while it was in lockdown, and then fly to Sydney on the way back to Brisbane so that they could be allowed to return without being forced into quarantine... all the while, not even bothering to be tested just in case. These were not negligent or accidental acts, they were calculated and uncaring, to be doing what they wanted without a single concern for their fellow human beings. The psychology of these sorts of people is one of over-entitlement, believing that everyone else is beneath them, and are not going to accept responsibility or even accept a punishment, as they see themselves as being above it all. Remember, with every 100 people who get infected now by these girls, an average of 1 person will die, and about 10 of those people will have life-long debilitating injuries... and if they don't care about that, then do they deserve to be forgiven and forgotten.
It wouldn't have mattered what they looked like, how old they were, or what race they were, these have been the worst of the worse so far, and they shouldn't be playing the race card to get special treatment. Our news programs and papers up here have already been featuring people trying to sneak across the border (one hiding in the back of a car, one running from the police at the border checkpoint, several people jumping the border fence, and people not declaring their intended residence), and those people were of different ages, genders and colours.
I would imagine, just like those people in VIC and NSW who have been suffering through a partially closed economy and now have to endure tighter restrictions again, the people in QLD are now also feeling just as frustrated at doing all this hard work as a community, to be undone by three selfish young girls who just wanted to party with friends in Melbourne, knowing it was wrong because they made sure they returned via Sydney and not declare being in Melbourne at all. That collective anger is going to go somewhere, and if those three people still haven't shown any sign of remorse for what they have done, and the lives that may now be lost for their weekend party... it is just going to make people even more upset over their lack of morality by staying silent.

At least in the case of my comment, I was making an observation of what appeared to be cosmetic surgery on two people who are supposed to still be teenagers. Faces don't look like that naturally, which makes me think that they were led to believe that they were not beautiful without that much work, and I blame the modern day social media celebrities misleading young girls into thinking that they are not beautiful if they don't have lips, cheeks, noses and eyebrows that don't come naturally like that. Commentary on the lengths young people go to with plastic surgery, because they think that their natural look is ugly. Body shaming is when you target people for how they naturally look, causing them anxiety or depression, or to take drastic action to change their natural look, which they wouldn't have wanted to risk doing if they were just allowed to be happy with who they really are, because they can't help how they are born. If anything, those two "girls" and their parents are the ones who must have been ashamed of their natural beauty to do that to themselves at such a young age, before their bodies had started to even age and deteriorate to warrant "fixing". This superficial culture of cosmetic surgery by young people who don't have any physical defects, and dependence on make-up from a young age, hiding their natural beauty for the rest of their life. That sort of thing is self-body-shaming, and if we don't call out these unnatural results, more young girls will want to look the same, thinking that their natural look is ugly. Their faces are distorted into something that looks like a plastic mannequin with over-inflated lips... I think we should be really worried if our teenage and pre-teen children want to do that to themselves, just because they are ashamed of how they normally look.


Still to name and shame, that's not the Media's responsibility, it's been said there's an investigation underway and charges to be laid. The media has exceeded it's reach and we all should be very concerned.

Just quickly, so that it doesn't go too far off topic, but as someone who has a degree in Criminology, and studied the different outcomes of different punishment techniques, I found that shaming offenders best works in smaller communities on people who depended on the interactions of those around them, but unfortunately, it isn't as effective in large cities... while of particular note, is that the people who most should be identified, are the ones who are allowed to remain anonymous (like sexual offenders against children, because we don't want the children to be identified and tormented by others for the rest of their life), and those type of amoral, power-control predators, are more likely to not feel remorse over their affect on others, and will re-offend, because they haven't felt the fear of a reasonable potential penalty. (if you had a paedophile in your neighbourhood attack a child and you have children of similar age, there is a pretty good chance that you'd be wanting the media to name and shame the offender so that you know who they are and where they are, to be sure that they are no where near your children... similarly, if you lived near these covid girls and didn't know their names or faces, would you be comfortable in not knowing if you had been in close contact with them, on the same day you were visiting elderly relatives - if we could eliminate internet trolls it would be great, but until we can find a way of doing that, it is an unavoidable side-effect of knowing, and rational venting... which we can all do with right now after 6+ months of this global crisis)

(now for the off-topic bit)
One thing I studied was the history of the concept of shaming offenders, and it used to be useful before we had big cities, which made it impossible for it to be an effective tool of deterrence. That's because, small town communities had people knowing just about everyone, and if you wanted to continue living comfortably with your community, you feared being caught doing something that everyone would quickly find out about. It was an extension of fearing having your parents finding out about something you did wrong (if you have a close relationship with them)... the town was your extended family, and the phrase of "being run out of town" would be your only option if you did something seriously wrong and everyone you knew, knew about it.
With modern big cities, filled with thousands and millions of people you don't know, most people don't really care what a complete stranger thinks about you, or knows what you have done. The fear of restraint isn't there, and negative corruptive influences from social media makes it even worse, as you can be an uncaring troll online by remaining hidden and anonymous. The result of trolls on offenders can either lead to them to reflect on what they have done and want to change their ways so that they don't go through that ever again, or to be more determined to be a criminal in retaliation... and in today's self-entitlement, superficial look-at-me, social-media environment that these girls are a part of, they won't be the type to do any self-reflecting and have any moral revelations.

[griffin]

Tell me, do you think the SMH or the Courier Mail will call Eve Black, "Enemy of the State"? That idiot from Bunnings screaming about her rights was given airtime on Seven before she was arrested. The attendees from the Melbourne party haven't been named, there's no need to but for "some reason" the Courier Mail decided that it was okay to make these 2 the face of Covid-19 in Queensland.

Considering those two ladies were in Brisbane and the other people were not, I think it wouldn't make much sense having any of those other people you mentioned being featured heavily in the QLD paper.
The Melbourne party people didn't sneak into QLD to infect people with Covid and lie to police on a legal document.
Neither did the Bunnings lady or Eva... nor did they covertly and fraudulently bring the virus to an area that was clear. But each of them still got significant air-play, but these Brisbane ladies got more attention because what they did was commit a more serious crime (those other people aren't facing 5 years in prison, so they aren't going to get as much attention from the media).

[dirge]

You still took the time to dunk their "overdone botox jobs" though, their appearance has no bearing on their irresponsible actions but you still had to say it.

I was referring to it only because you mentioned body shaming. I find it sad they feel the need to do it, but it has no relevance to their recent behaviour.

[Tha_Phantom]

Some people would also find it sad we are adults collecting toys, so to each their own. Let's focus on what matters, which is covid that can and does affect all of us in some way.

[Autocon]

Yeah the third girl was a sister of one of the other girls.

On the news in Vic, people are not home when being door knocked. They should be home isolating with covid, in some circumstances they door knock twice in a day. They need tougher penalties like prison time.

[griffin]

On the news in Vic, people are not home when being door knocked. They should be home isolating with covid, in some circumstances they door knock twice in a day. They need tougher penalties like prison time.

I saw that on the news as well (a quarter of 500 positive people who were checked on, who should be staying at home in quarantine, were not home), which is really disappointing, and explains why the Victorian numbers just aren't going down, after a number of weeks of restrictions. Millions of Victorians are sacrificing their normal routines and lives to save lives, and selfish people who know that they are infected are going about their lives as normal and spreading the virus. Dozens of people are dying in Victoria of this, and those people don't seem to care, because it isn't them or anyone they care about (if they care about anyone).
One of the three girls who came back to QLD initially refused to tell the authorities where they had been during the week while they were back, which is similarly selfish, and lacks any concern for anyone else, as if everyone else is too insignificant to care if they get sick.
(two of the places they admitted to visiting (which includes the restaurant that now infected someone else) are only about 800 meters away from my house, so if they infected anyone who lives locally who ate or works there, my suburb could be one of the first hotspots in Brisbane)

I hope that the virus-positive people who breach their quarantine requirements, who are obviously spreading the virus since the numbers are not dropping, face hefty penalties. The unfortunate thing is that we probably can't accurately know if a death could be traced back to one of the positive people who left their house and infected others. For the QLD trio, they are known to have infected a man at the same restaurant they were at, who has a wife (now tested positive) who works at a nursing home. It is just that easy for the virus to make its way to an enclosed (almost isolated) environment that houses the most vulnerable people. Most of the deaths in Victoria in the current outbreak are coming from elderly at nursing homes... once it gets transported into one of those facilities, it just spreads like wildfire, and instead of 1 out of 100 dying, it is closer to 50% of those infected who die.

A better penalty for these people who are selfishly unconcerned about who gets infected (including those who publicly harass others who are enforcing the use of masks or distancing, or even wearing them), should be forced to do "community service" work at a hospital that has these suffering and dying people (and their weeping relatives), and see how much of an insignificant thing or "hoax" it is. (obviously the infected people have to wait until the virus is out of their system, but those people need to see what their negligent actions are doing to others, and it could help lighten the load on the hospital staff, who need to spread their services between treating people, and comforting others).

[Tha_Phantom]

A better penalty for these people who are selfishly unconcerned about who gets infected (including those who publicly harass others who are enforcing the use of masks or distancing, or even wearing them), should be forced to do "community service" work at a hospital that has these suffering and dying people (and their weeping relatives), and see how much of an insignificant thing or "hoax" it is. (obviously the infected people have to wait until the virus is out of their system, but those people need to see what their negligent actions are doing to others, and it could help lighten the load on the hospital staff, who need to spread their services between treating people, and comforting others).

Yeah, this.
I reckon this would be more effective than any fine or jail time could achieve (not that I'm saying we should wave that, but in addition to that).

[reillyd]

Well that didn't take long to go from outrage to body shaming in one day and yet no one is concerned that 2 people of colour were pretty much fixed by the Australian MSM, yet other people who have acted much the same have not because they come from more, "affluent" suburbs across Australia.

I think people living in the affected areas of Gold Coast, Logan, and Brisbane get a free pass on the ?outrage? given they?ll be the ones potentially affected. Katoomba is a long way away from a major outbreak, so your outrage mileage may vary. And I hadn?t seen the photos and ethnicity at the time, because it was only the newspaper that printed them initially. Do find it ironic though that the ABC and Murdoch press are both labelled main stream media/

They could have come from the most affluent suburbs in Australia, but they were supposed to be self-quarantining and lied about their travel history. One (allegedly) destroyed her phone to make it more difficult to track her movements in Qld because (allegedly) was trying to conceal her crime syndicate contacts here.

And they were charged at the time, and faced court yesterday. The story has gotten worse as investigations have proceeded. If the second had just made up a few visits to some locations then she probably wouldn?t have received the greater police scrutiny and the whole story come out. The covid related charges are, ironically, likely to be a smaller sentence.

Oh and is anyone else really ticked off that apostrophes keep getting changed to ? On the board lately?
Either it?s just me, or it?s been a really bad week.

[griffin]

Oh and is anyone else really ticked off that apostrophes keep getting changed to ? On the board lately?
Either it?s just me, or it?s been a really bad week.

I can't figure out why it is doing it. I have changed a number of settings, but nothing seems to be fixing it. When the board was upgraded last year, it was doing it to a lot of people, but when I changed one of the recommended settings, it appeared to fix it for most people... except there are 2 or 3 people it is still happening to. And I don't know why. And it is really bugging me.

[Autocon]

Lets see ' if that happened No?

Edit: Hah :D it's ok

[Paulbot]

Obviously this is a first world problems type situation and there's a lot of bigger issues in Melbourne at the moment, but...

With all shops now closed for six week (and maybe more) and reduced to Click and Collect only, it would be a great time for online stores to sort out the "random assortment/styles may differ" on waves/size classes of TFs.

[dirge]

Obviously this is a first world problems type situation and there's a lot of bigger issues in Melbourne at the moment, but...

With all shops now closed for six week (and maybe more) and reduced to Click and Collect only, it would be a great time for online stores to sort out the "random assortment/styles may differ" on waves/size classes of TFs.

For companies such as Myer who are in a fight for their lives as a company in the medium term, it's actually vital they improve their online offerings. This is a simple yet effective way for them to greatly improve how easy it is to purchase online.

[SMHFConvoy]

From Sleeping Giants Oz on Twitter:

"Three men lie about where they have been & sneak across the QLD border after being in Victoria.

NO Photos on the front page

NO screaming headlines of "enemies of the state"

NO release of their names

NO outing where they work

NO raiding their social media for photos"

[Ralph Wiggum]

It?s been less than 24hrs since the announcement. Give the human flesh search engine time to do its work.

[griffin]

Another record number of cases in Victoria of 725, and I think a new record number of deaths too at 15... which is higher percentage than expected, because there are so many serious cases in nursing homes, who are more likely to die from the virus (most deaths in the last few days were all from nursing homes).
After two weeks since those three ladies snuck into Brisbane and spent several days around the city, could we have actually dodged a bullet, with only a couple of new cases in the last few days? The one known case that came from them occurred a couple days after they returned, and if it had been been rapidly spread among others from the ladies or those that have caught it from them, the thousands of tests that were taken last week would have turned up cases that were asymptomatic that would have otherwise gone unnoticed.
And now we have some others who had spent a bit of time in Melbourne and drove back to QLD, and was only found out a few days after they returned when one of them got sick and confessed to where they had been (when being tested, worried that he had covid).

I think everyone who selfishly risks infecting others with a deadly disease like this, should be identified, so that the people around them makes them aware of what they did is serious and has consequences... something they won't know or feel if they are able to hide their identity and continue behaving selfishly because they know they can get away with it. People are known to continue to commit crimes and increase the intensity if the reward is there without any penalty.
It is just unfortunate that the first people got so much coverage, and some negative feedback to the media, that others won't be featured as heavily... and those two girls were significant social media users, caught up in the selfie culture, that it was a lot easier to find images of them for visual media in a hurry. These other people sneaking in don't appear to have a social media identity, so their news reports are less significant if there is nothing visual to go with them.

I also don't like seeing those media programs chasing up ratings by featuring stories or people that try to highlight the frustrations or unfairness of various lockdown measures, as it stirs up the more pro-active people to resist or refuse adhering to measures that are there to save lives, including their own or someone they know who could be a high-risk demographic.
Yes, it is difficult, and frustrating, and there is a long way to go before we will be free of this virus restricting what we can do, or what businesses can operate, but stirring up dissent among people and business leaders, just for ratings, is not responsible behaviour by the media who are doing it... because they will keep trying to outdo each other to get attention, and it could get a lot worse if the media keeps provoking a response for them to cover later, and not take any responsibility for it.

[Autocon]

30 something years old man is the youngest death in Aus to date. Just doesnt affect old people. Hoping Palmer doesnt win his high court challenge.

[griffin]

The elderly weren't the only demographic that was at risk - people with pre-existing conditions, particularly respiratory illnesses, are also at risk (some teens and children have died in other countries, at such a significantly reduced rate that we shouldn't see it happen here with our extremely low death/case numbers)... but the elderly are indeed the higher risk.

[Trent]

Why am I not surprised about this:

https://twitter.com/aksmth/status/1291504223247634432?s=21

[Zippo]

And COVID-19 is back in the community in New Zealand; no known cause.

Lockdown in Auckland, high alert for the rest of the country.

[griffin]

It's a worry that it has re-appeared in NZ after 101 days without any community cases, as they have been a beacon of hope and inspiration for countries like ours that also have the potential to eliminate community cases as well... but flights are still coming into NZ with returning citizens that have the virus, so maybe there was a breach of traveller quarantine over there as well.
(the news tonight had said that two of the people worked at a cold-storage warehouse that imports organic goods, which is being tested... hopefully that isn't the source, as it will have a massive impact on frozen imports in every country, which could see countries like ours blocking all frozen and possibly refrigerated imports, which includes a lot of processed foods, and ingredients to a lot of foods, that are in our grocery stores)

I think it is good to see drastic action being taken straight away when there are only single digit cases that have an unknown source, because... why wait until there are 300 new cases per day before the only action that stops the spread is undertaken (like they did in Victoria), because once numbers get that high, deaths are guaranteed. The same is the case in NSW, slowly increasing, and won't go away while everything is open. It just hasn't been as rapid as Victoria because they were more prepared with the expected outbreak, as the Melbourne outbreak was unexpected and spread a fair bit before it's extent was realised. But the best outcome any country has done without a lockdown is just a slower increase, which will still accelerate when daily numbers reach a certain amount that is more than resources can handle and more unknown sources grow.
A drastic action might draw in criticism, which the media will highlight and make worse, but waiting until X-amount of daily cases, will see deaths that will also draw in criticism from community sources and media.
You're damned if you do and damned if you don't... but at least one option will see little or no deaths, and a quicker recovery of the economy.

[Ralph Wiggum]

New Zealand has done an amazing job with quarantine, but I'd wager that the source of the virus is either:
1. A slip-up in the quarantine of international arrivals - and by that I mean the staff working there like what happened in Melbourne.
2. It has come through via those given exceptions in order to keep the country running. This means people working in the transport industry (eg. aircrew, ship crew), medical staff, etc.

Either way, the NZ Govt. has taken immediate action which is the best approach. Victoria's actions always felt more reactionary than precautionary.

[griffin]

14 more cases today in NZ from the new outbreak. :(
I feel a bit more upset over this than the growing problem in Australia, as NZ was doing such a great job being the only country (that I'm aware of) that had managed to eliminate the virus, for over 3 months. As opposed to Australia, which was close to doing the same but took the issue of quarantine too lightly, and now has a long road ahead dealing with the current outbreak in a couple of states.

As I've said recently, I think we should probably be quarantining returning citizens off-shore (at any one of their immigration processing islands), and only transport them onto the mainland after their 14 days and with negative test results. At the moment, Australia has had to cut back on the number of returned citizens (who already have limited flight options and departure windows), because too many resources are now tied up with containing the community outbreak, and processing off-shore will help increase the number of people being able to come home, while preventing future community outbreaks.

[griffin]

It's good to see the case numbers in Victoria coming down in the last week, thanks to all the hard work most of the residents are doing to stop the spread of the virus.
The numbers have been 200-300 in the last few days, down from the peak days of 700+.
It's just the death rates that are still going to take a few more days to reach their peak, as it takes a week or two for the virus to fully develop and shut down the respiratory systems. Today was still seeing increases in hospital admissions and people in ICU or ventilators, so until those numbers start coming down, I fear that we will be seeing more bad news.
The good that can come of it though, is the lag in rising deaths that the media will be focussing on (for ratings) will help encourage people to stay committed to the lockdown restrictions while the case numbers are dropping - when all the numbers are dropping it could lead to people being complacent or demanding an end to the restrictions due to it being less likely to catch the virus, but the higher death numbers will still make it look like the situation is serious and a higher chance of catching it.

It is also good to see the daily numbers in NSW are still falling instead of increasing. I was sure that they would have been following the infection numbers of Victoria, but I guess they had a small enough number of cases for their resources to be able to track down most of the potentially infected people to isolate enough people to limit the community spread.
The numbers of people who they couldn't work out the source of their infection is getting smaller (just one person yesterday), so the contact tracing in conjunction with social distancing, masks and washing of hands and social surfaces, is actually working when the daily case numbers are small enough (under 20 in NSW at the peak of their second wave).
It was a shame that Victoria wasn't able to do the same when it's second wave had its daily case numbers sitting in the teens for a whole week at the beginning, before ballooning out to daily numbers of 70-80 in the second week, and triple digits from then on.

At least we aren't as bad as America, with over a thousand (reported) dead most days for the last 4 weeks... for their population compared to ours, it would be like us having 90-100 people dying each day here in Australia. Hopefully the number from yesterday (25) is the worst for us here.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I found myself having a chuckle at this webpage from NHK.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1079/

I'd like to draw attention to the picture of people spaced out on the train seats, where is this magical train?
Also down the very bottom,
Work from home or stagger hours with collegues.
Also: Work in spacious rooms.

I appreciate their efforts, but there is not a lot of this going on. Also conflicting information.

One section suggests not travelling to areas with high infections and generally avoid travelling. YET the govt has initatied the ever so awesomely name "Go to Travel" campaign where they'll subsidize one's accommodation. So, am I to travel or not?
They'll follow that up with a "go to eat" campaign subsidizing visits to restaurants. While I see the need to get people spending money (despite the job losses of people), I'd rather see them set up some rules for businesses to follow in regards to spacing and amount of customers per metre etc.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Maybe they're all actually gaijin on the train, and that's why no-one's willing to sit next to them.

[jazzcomp]

One of the schools got shutdown because of COVID. All students told to self-isolate. What about the parents?

[griffin]

Good news about Victoria with new cases down to below 100 yesterday.
Unfortunately the case numbers in NSW and QLD keep putting along, with new outbreaks popping up just after old ones are considered contained (no more related cases in those areas).

[Autocon]

Australia has reached 600 deaths :(

[griffin]

The numbers in NSW have been trending well, defying what I was expecting back when they were seeing 10-20 cases each day with a number that were community transfer.

With Victoria also trending well, we shouldn't see any leakage back into other states if they can keep the numbers low and be able to contact trace as efficiently as NSW has proven to be effective.

While the federal government (mostly the PM) is trying to have scientists create a "hotspot" definition to use against states that are protecting themselves with border closures, it is important to reduce the daily numbers enough to track and quarantine... because the PM's "hotspot" attempt won't prevent virus spreading to every other state. Closed borders make it a lot harder for infected people to spread the virus, with only a handful of committed violators managing to sneak into closed states, while many others are being caught with false declarations of where they have been.
Having the borders open to everyone except those in designated hotspot suburbs or towns, will just have people not in hotspot zones being contaminated from those in a hotspot who has travelled for work, shopping, relatives, entertainment, as there won't be a barricade around hotspot zones, so it is up to those in the zones to regulate themselves, to not travel beyond the zone or declare that they live in or have been into the zone. When money or boredom is in play, people will prioritise themselves over others, and not care if they are infected or infect others.
So unless there is a manned, physical barrier around a designated hotspot, it's not going to stop the spread from that hotspot... and we have seen how the virus was able to travel across the country within a day from people who were in Victoria, got infected, and travelled to QLD via Sydney, to avoid quarantine or declaring it.
So if the PM gets his way and we have another outbreak, he would have the states left open and the virus would be more easily be able to travel to all states and create a bigger drain on resources as multiple states are having to spend money and resources containing it, instead of just one state if travel was prohibited.
Fortunately, we have enough state governments with opposing political parties running them to not just say yes to anything the PM says, to have a similar situation in America, with more Republican run states being hit harder with the virus than Democrat run states. (the first states to be hit were Democrat states because they have the main points of entry for the virus from Europe on the East and China on the West... now that it has entered every state, it is up to individual state governments to deal with it in their own way, because there has been no coordinated united effort in the US like we had here for the first wave of infections)


Speaking of the US....
The positive infection of trump was not a surprise to anyone who believed the science behind the virus, instead of listening to trump playing it down, discouraging preventative measures like group meetings & rallies without distancing, and even mocking the use of masks as recently as two days before he was tested positive.
The surprising thing is that it took so long for him to finally get infected.
The attitude he has always had towards the virus, and willing to sacrifice over 200,000 Americans to the virus just to appeal to the 20-25% of uneducated/easy-to-fool people needed to get elected (without compulsory voting in America, he was elected with just 22% of citizens voting for him - which means that you can target the lowest half of the population who didn't even finish school, who are more impressionable by conspiracy theories that prey on people with active imaginations and don't know that the claims are not based on facts).
For the educated people out there who have been screaming out against trump's dismissive attitude of the virus, his infection is a cross between vindication and karma.
Now we just have to see how this plays out.
If he ends up being one of the majority who show no symptoms, it will make it even worse for Americans... as it would give him and his followers "proof" that the virus is not a big deal or serious enough to worry about having any level of protection. It would be leverage against any Democrats standing at the November election (congress, governors, white house), proving that they are scaremongering and that the number of covid deaths was actually a lot less than claimed (earlier saying that people who died due to existing conditions, didn't actually die from covid, when we know that existing conditions is a high-risk category for the virus).
Fortunately, he has already been reported to have some symptoms... which should worry trump supporters, as that was really fast, and based on people who have died from the virus, is not a good sign so soon. Most people don't develop symptoms until a week after infection, so if he is being tested daily as he had claimed several times before (not that he has ever lied before...), his infection has accelerated to symptoms within a day or two of infection.
I think that his testing has been reduced to once every few days or weekly (because he would be quite resistant to being tested so frequently if he didn't believe it was something to worry about catching), because it was only after someone in his inner circle had symptoms that he and others were suddenly revealing that they were being tested and showing up being positive at the same time (several people in the white house and senators at recent events hosted by trump are now confirmed positive).
His recent heavy schedule will work against him too, as his immune system would be rather drained from the last couple of weeks running around the country to host rallies, fundraiser dinners and campaign events like the debate and announcement of his Supreme Court pick... so his age, fitness level and recent activities wearing him out suggest that his odds would be similar or worse to the British Prime Minister, who ended up in Intensive Care with 50-50 odds of survival... and like others who had serious symptoms, has long-term issues that will affect him for the rest of his life.
There are so many scenarios to play out here with trump... and this will be a fascinating few weeks for observers, leading up the election in just over 4 weeks time.
Like, will this draw out a sympathy vote towards him, because the Democrats have withdrawn advertisements that negatively attack trump... something that trump wouldn't do if the roles were reversed.
Or will it finally have trump supporters start questioning everything he has been lying to them in the past if he was now proven wrong about how dangerous and contagious this virus can be. However, if trump recovers quickly, it will be because he was able to get medical care and drugs that most of his supporters won't have access to, or be able to afford... and they won't know or care, because they will just see it as being easy to overcome and survive as trump had been claiming all year.

The body language when he boarded the helicopter to go to the hospital was very telling, as it was the first time I've seen someone of such ego showing some fear. When he was climbing into the helicopter, he started tapping the handrail at the top of the stairs, which was not to the sound of a jamming beat... it suggests that his mind was distracted/stressed by something that was very personally important - so he might actually have believed the seriousness of what his odds of survival really were. Despite the staged nature of him walking out on his own to the helicopter for the benefit of the cameras (he's a showman after all), the fact that he was willing to go to the hospital so soon after being found to be infected (an image of weakness to him), instead of stubbornly staying in the white house while he felt fine... means that he knows just how slim his chances are now and how quickly it can require serious medical attention once symptoms start. I imagine that there has also been some thoughts about how he should have taken it more seriously like biden has all this time (who has been vindicated for staying at home as much as possible and always wearing a mask when with others), but regrets are not in trump's nature, so the thoughts would be fleeting, if at all.

[griffin]

The body language when he boarded the helicopter to go to the hospital was very telling, as it was the first time I've seen someone of such ego showing some fear. When he was climbing into the helicopter, he started tapping the handrail at the top of the stairs, which was not to the sound of a jamming beat... it suggests that his mind was distracted/stressed by something that was very personally important - so he might actually have believed the seriousness of what his odds of survival really were. Despite the staged nature of him walking out on his own to the helicopter for the benefit of the cameras (he's a showman after all), the fact that he was willing to go to the hospital so soon after being found to be infected (an image of weakness to him), instead of stubbornly staying in the white house while he felt fine... means that he knows just how slim his chances are now and how quickly it can require serious medical attention once symptoms start. I imagine that there has also been some thoughts about how he should have taken it more seriously like biden has all this time (who has been vindicated for staying at home as much as possible and always wearing a mask when with others), but regrets are not in trump's nature, so the thoughts would be fleeting, if at all.

Seeing that footage a few more times on different news programs, I think there might also be a bit of frustration, in that he knows that he has no choice but to go, but he doesn't want to, as he has an election to win, and his ego doesn't easily accept weakness or failure... which being incapacitated by a virus is a big hit to the ego.

The reason why I'm more inclined to think that it was ego-led frustration, than being a sign of fear, is not just because his ego deludes himself into believing that he is perfect and invulnerable, but also because of the suspicion of when he really knew that he was infected and that he was annoyed that he was forced to now admit it to the public because he was going to hospital the next day and no other story would have been plausible if he was there for a couple weeks.
The symptoms he had developed on Friday don't show up that quickly (there is at least 2-4 days incubation)... and with him said to be tested daily, I think he knew he was positive days ago, but kept it quiet (including his doctor, who has been known in the past to sign off on anything trump has written up about his fitness tests), hoping to be asymptomatic so that he didn't have to declare it and be able to continue doing his election rallies and fundraiser events.... only conceding to go to hospital when symptoms were impossible to hide from the public (which was already a day after he was being noticed to be a bit off at the rally on Wednesday), which also meant that he had to then announce his infection as if he was just tested positive that day (Thursday).
The timeline of infection suggests that he was most likely infected at the Saturday Supreme Court nominee announcement when there was a lot of hugs and kisses among unmasked Republicans who were attending (who are now infected as well), and in the days following when he knew he was positive, he continued with his rallies and fundraisers, infecting others, because his re-election has always been more important than the health (and lives) of others. That would then be the 4 days incubation before the first symptoms were being noticed on Wednesday, which became impossible to hide by the end of Thursday, and was sent to the hospital Friday... because he is in two of the high risk categories, and often those people can develop serious symptoms quite suddenly.
If that ends up being true (that he knew he was positive days before he made it public and was out infecting people), that will not really shock anyone, as it would just be his normal attitude towards others.

EDIT - just saw on the news that trump was needing oxygen the night before he went to hospital (Thursday night), which shows that he definitely caught the virus at least 4 days earlier... possibly even a week ago, which could mean that he was the carrier who infected others at the Saturday event, and made out that his advisor who was announced as being positive on Wednesday was to blame.

[shockNwave]

The way Trump has been playing the one-upmanship game against Biden and the democrats, means it doesn't come as a surprise that karma has payed a visit to Trump and his fellow republicans.


Meanwhile, here in Victoria the super spreader idiot from Chadstone has spread covid to 16 different locations:mad:. Last I looked, we've gone up to 24 new cases now.

[griffin]

The bad thing about trump catching the virus, is that if he survives he won't need to wear a mask and continues setting a bad example to his followers. The responsible thing would be to still wear it after recovering, so that he leads by example and adheres to any state mandated wearing of masks, even if you have already had it, as there would be no easy way of proving it if you get ticketed by police for not wearing one. (and there is still conjecture over if you can catch the virus more than once, as different strains might need different anti-bodies)

[Bidoofdude]

Things seem to be going according to plan for the most part in Vic. I went to a big park near my house this week to kick the footy with my brother though, and there were many hundreds of people there not wearing masks, picnicking as normal. I'd say maybe one in every two people wasn't wearing one, with a few dubious distancing practices. Seems like a similar situation to the beaches.

Reality is that if you give an inch in easing the restrictions, people will take a mile. Everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule and that their reason to not comply is more valid than anyone else's and there fore justified. Similar to some people's pretty liberal use of "exercise" under stage 4.

[Autocon]

They down played Trumps reaction to Covid so people are saying its not a big deal.

He did a drive by while still infected so all those in the car may be infected now. He is going to win the election again. :(

[Ralph Wiggum]

Covid-19 isn?t a big deal if you have a specialist team of doctors caring only for you 24/7, helicopter medivac, an executive suite in a top military hospital and access to the full range of drug treatments...all without having an expensive medical bill at the end.

[griffin]

Some new seasons of American TV shows started this week, and they all had Covid as a plot device or in the background as a real-time issue. (NCIS, Bull, NCIS New Orleans, and probably others too)

Even though we shouldn't be ignoring the seriousness of this virus, I think that fiction is where we should be able to escape those parts of reality when we are trying to relax with a moment of entertainment.
It is something that is all over the news, and in ad-breaks, and I feel that in America where the virus is so much worse (with most Americans knowing someone who has been infected or died from it), this decision was not a good idea. Either it looks like they are trying to make ratings from a current real-world tragedy, or they are not realising that people are already suffering anxiety from the virus (from catching it or the fear of catching it), to not be able to watch a prime-time fiction program that keeps reminding them about Covid.
Even I'm having trouble watching these new episodes (I switched off one of them), because of how much I see of the virus on the American news programs, which often features victims and doctors, to try to encourage the virus deniers that it is indeed real, and a serious virus. (one nurse that recently quit, had patients who were dying, who were adamant to their dying breath that the virus wasn't real - if catching the virus and being near death won't convince Americans to take precautions and wear masks, nothing will, because too many Republican political leaders are still telling citizens to not wear mask, to go back to work, and to do Thanksgiving-Christmas as normal - it is no wonder the worst hit states since the second wave are almost all Republican (https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-deaths-since-july)).

[griffin]

The Sydney outbreak just shows how quickly the virus can spread, when people "get back to living a normal life" after virus was eliminated. It just takes one person breaching the rules (I think it was someone who was part of an airline flight crew that was just here for a day) from north of Sydney, and we apparently have infected people ending up in Victoria and QLD within days.
When it is a holiday/tourist spot, it makes it easy for people from around the country to catch it and spread it on the way back to their city or state, through the airports.
It was the scenario in pandemic movies like 12 Monkeys and Contagion, using the "express lane" of travel that we call air travel, taking a virus to anywhere in the world before the first person is showing symptoms (2-4 days).
It's always a game of catchup, which is why these lockdowns and contact-tracing procedures go large, to capture most or all of the infected people who have already travelled away from the point of contamination, because they won't show symptoms quickly enough, and testing can still take several hours... and how far can you fly or drive in seven hours.

It annoys me when a state premier complains about states locking out her entire state... because unless she can guarantee that she can stop all of the residents in greater Sydney from travelling to other parts of NSW, there is no other way of preventing an infected person from entering other states, especially during the summer holiday period. If it could spread so quickly around Sydney and into other states from just one infected visitor to the country, is she that stupid (or uncaring) to not think it could just as easily be spread into other parts of the country, also by just one infected person leaving NSW.

It may suck for people and businesses affected by these temporary restrictions, but we can either act fast and prevent deaths (like in NZ), or wait until the case numbers get out of control (with about 1 death from every 100 cases), because the politicians believe it is political suicide to enforce restrictions (like in VIC).
Besides, with only about 11% of Australians being committed Christians, why is Christmas so important to the rest of the people, to need to be on that one day? Why do people need that one day to be the only excuse to do all the family things that people do, when they should (and many do) do family things throughout the year.
Just because major retailers (more specifically, the small number of rich CEOs and major shareholders) have commercialised this religious/family day to the point of people feeling obligated to spend a lot of money on presents and dinner gatherings, when the dinner gatherings shouldn't need the excuse of a single day of the year to organise, while presents should be more modest and personal/creative, and not excessive, which just has kids expecting more and more extravagant items, even though parents can't afford it (and still rack up debt just so that their kids don't "hate them" for not helping them keep up with their friends... or if they still believe in Santa, they don't think that he thought they weren't a good enough child this year to get what they wanted).
And the more presents you give kids these days, the less they value them... because there are plenty more to come next year. (it should be quality, not quantity)
When I was a child, kids would do up a christmas wish list, but we knew that it was just that... a wish list that you might be lucky to get something from it... not a checklist of everything we "needed" to see under the tree or in the stocking, just to get our love or affection.

Okay, rambling a little... but I just feel that Christmas has become so commercialised and materialistic, that it has lost its meaning of being a reason for friends and family to just spend time together... without obligations or expectations of getting something out of it.
And when you take out the materialism and commercialism, it is something people should be doing throughout the year... coming together and valuing the time we have left with our family and friends, instead of focusing on just one day a year that ends up prioritising the valuing of gifts and how much you can spend.
Gatherings throughout the year is something that the temporary lockdowns aren't getting to prevent forever... so unless you have some religious commitments that need to be done on that day, I don't see why people on TV and online (here and overseas where the virus is a lot worse) are making such a big fuss about missing out on something that they can do any other day when the virus or lockdowns are over.

[1AZRAEL1]

Our premier is a *word cannot be used here*

When we have politicians more worried about the economy over people's lives and getting this under control as quickly as possible. The economy was gonna crash no matter what. But if we locked down quick and hard, we wouldn't still be limping on

[griffin]

Our premier is a *word cannot be used here*

When we have politicians more worried about the economy over people's lives and getting this under control as quickly as possible. The economy was gonna crash no matter what. But if we locked down quick and hard, we wouldn't still be limping on

And that's why our economy is doing so much better than other countries despite our two biggest income "exports" being hit (tourism and foreign students), as more people here are able to get back to work, because we didn't do a half-assed job that let people just do what ever they wanted due to politicians fearing voter backlash or having an election around the corner (like in the US) to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives in an attempt to stay president. The US are estimated to end up with about half a million deaths from this virus, which would be more than double the amount they would have had if they had adopted measures by even the worse European countries.
All because other Republicans preferred to prioritise their own positions of power than the health of the people they are supposed to be representing, by not growing a pair and speaking up against a president who was publicly calling for his supporters to reject the measures that could have reduced the spread (masks, limiting going out, and no crowds).
The worst thing about the virus being out of control, is that they are losing so many doctors, nurses and first responders to the virus... which will impact their medical system for decades to come, and it will be the poorest people who will suffer, because the rich will be be able to secure doctors by paying them more to prioritise them.

[1AZRAEL1]

Comparatively, we definitely did a better job. But when Gladys kept harping on "open your borders because tourism/economy etc" and I am glad the other states stuck to their guns. The spread could have sparked up again sooner or been worse.

[G1Optimal]

What do you people think aboute the mutated covid19 being more infectious?

[shockNwave]

Was trying to contact my sister and niece who are holidaying in Mallacoota NSW due to the border shutting soon and now I hear the news that there are 8 cases here in VIC.🙄

[SMHFConvoy]

So has the Prime Minister resurfaced yet or is he still hiding?

[Trent]

So has the Prime Minister resurfaced yet or is he still hiding?

The oxygen thief is still MIA.

[griffin]

Back in Hawaii perhaps?

[SMHFConvoy]

So it turns out he scuttled out from under a rock at 10:30pm to announce he changed a single word in the national anthem from, "young and free" to, "one and free"

Amazing that Abbott was a more competent PM than this clown.

[Tha_Phantom]

So it turns out he scuttled out from under a rock at 10:30pm to announce he changed a single word in the national anthem from, "young and free" to, "one and free"

Amazing that Abbott was a more competent PM than this clown.

Nah, Abbott would be actively undermining the attempts by the states to prevent the spread of Covid. If Morrison is going to take a back seat and not get in the way, then I'm fine with that.

[i_amtrunks]

Amazing that Abbott was a more competent PM than this clown.

Nah, Abbott is trying to escape his "north" northern beaches hideaway and spread the virus on his bike. Probably heard that some one was thinking of donating money to mental health or a women's refuge and had to try and stop it...

[G1Optimal]

Has anyone heard how the mutant strain differes to the non mutated form on surfaces?
The reason i ask is i ordered earthrise autobot alliance 2pk from tfsource (as there a reports that the mutated strain could be in nevada usa and that is where tfsource is) and i was wondering if there was anything about mutant strains infecting parcels.

[Seraphim Prime]

There's been no recent research as far as I can tell.

The studies last year looked at how long SARS-Cov-2 existed on differenet surfaces and noted that the aerosol droplets could no longer be detected after 24 hours. This is pretty consistent with other aerosol viruses.

Besides that, after a lull early in the year, package deliveries have progressed pretty much unabated last year and there were very few reports of coronavirus cases from unknown sources (which I would include packaging contaminants within)

I should think that ordering a package from Nevada will be a pretty safe bet. And if you wanted to be extra cautious, you can handle with gloves and with a surface spray (or any other way that minimises your contact)

[kovert]

According to this BBC article (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55388846), the virus been mutating since it was first detected in Wuhan, China.

Here's a link (https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2020/CSIRO-scientists-publish-new-research-on-SARS-COV-2-virus-survivability) to CSIRO research from October 2020 on COVID survivability on different surfaces. The article is not too long and features images and an info graphic at the bottom.

[G1Optimal]

Thanks seraphim prime and kovert

[Autocon]

WA going into lockdown for 5 days. Panic paying is huge

Stoopid people

[SMHFConvoy]

I thought it was 10 days for WA

[SharkyMcShark]

5 days, through to the end of this week. Friday 6pm I believe is the cutoff.

[griffin]

If Brisbane is anything to go by, I think your lockdown will only be short, as Perth has been very well insulated, and this country is getting very good at contact tracing and testing when movement restrictions are in place. Putting everything on pause for a few days to make sure it hasn't spread, limiting the number of people moving around the city, they can do several days of testing and tracing to improve the chances of preventing it from spreading, as it can take up to a day to get test results back and if it continues to spread they are constantly playing catch-up.

There are two options...
The Victorian option - allow people to continue as normal because of the fear of (voter) backlash, until too many cases and deaths are hurting the popularity of the political leaders... then it takes months of lockdown and restrictions to bring it back to zero, losing over 800 lives in the process and putting a lot of people out of work.

Or, the option we've seen in QLD, NSW and NZ... lockdown for a few days at the first sign of a community case and assess if the virus has spread... then contain it quickly before it gets out of control and starts killing people, re-opening within a shorter period of time (limiting the pain to the people stuck at home and the businesses).

I know which option I'd prefer, as lives are more important than short-term inconvenience... and much better than long-term inconvenience if the decision is made to wait, to see if it just disappears on its own (or think that testing and tracing on its own will some how stop the virus while people are allowed to travel around the state freely and infect others before they know that they have come into contact with an infected person).

Unfortunately, one person at my work was rather vocal about the QLD 3-day mask-mandated lockdown when it was announced on the news during our lunch-break, claiming that it was excessive to force that on all of the city just because of one community case... but obviously didn't care about how many people needed to die just so he could continue living his life unhindered.
(the really annoying thing was that he and his band of conspiracy-theory-flat-earth-anti-vaxxers actually boycotted the 3-day mask-mandate here in Brisbane last month, and all of them went home just to avoid wearing a mask at work... forcing the worksite to have to close down their shift because the majority of the night shift were missing - and there was nothing that the company could do about it, or penalise them over it)

[Paulbot]

There are two options...
The Victorian option - allow people to continue as normal because of the fear of (voter) backlash, until too many cases and deaths are hurting the popularity of the political leaders... then it takes months of lockdown and restrictions to bring it back to zero, losing over 800 lives in the process and putting a lot of people out of work.


Wait. Is this how Victoria looked to people in other states. Because that is not what happened here, it sounds like the tale from Sky News and Newscorp. Our Premier did not allow things to remain as normal to avoid voter backlash. He took actions that were unpopular but we did them. If anything the �Victorian Option� which did not work was the attempt to lockdown hard just certain post code areas of Melbourne when the second wave appeared. That came a little too late and the virus was outside those post codes (and in public nursing homes due to Federal Government incompetence) which then led to the second wave death toll and the even tougher restrictions.

[Paulbot]

And are you implying the Victorian government took this action: � decision is made to wait, to see if it just disappears on its own� because if you are, you really have no f-ing idea what Victoria has been through or how our leaders acted. I�m guessing you didn�t watch the daily press conferences our leader gave answering questions for hours while liberal Premiers in the other states and the PM ran away from tough questions. :mad:

[Paulbot]

Oh I just remembered Queensland only has News Corporation papers and that company was running a smear campaign against Labor Premiers for all of 2020. No wonder you�ve not got the facts. F the Courier Mail. Get the facts right or down talk crap about my state.

[Trent]

Yeah Paul is right. The Victorian governments response wasn�t perfect but it was a damn sight better than some other states. Have you forgotten the Ruby Princess griff?

The biggest problem we�ve had through all of this has been our dickhead PM. He�s stepped back and dumped the responsibility on all of this on the states, even the traditionally federal parts. So when someone messes up he does the only thing he can do, he blames someone else.

[llamatron]

Don't forget you get a go if you have a go.

Anyway, yep, almost all the screw ups have been 100% federal responsibility (to the surprise of no one).

[SMHFConvoy]

Don't forget you get a go if you have a go.

Anyway, yep, almost all the screw ups have been 100% federal responsibility (to the surprise of no one).

All of it because the federal government doesn't hold a hose.

It does dictate the news as all the news outlets are spewing the exact same story, with the exact same wording, "Craig Kelly hauled into Scott Morrison's for a dressing down over spending disinformation about medical facts!" and yet the buffoon's posts on Facebook remain up and the Coalition fringe element claiming that Kelly's been censored.

[G1Optimal]

We�re going to see more�: Man tests positive for COVID-19 after getting vaccine doses (https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/were-going-to-see-more-man-tests-positive-for-covid-19-after-getting-vaccine-dose-c-2132136)
Source:7news.com.au

[DELTAprime]

We�re going to see more�: Man tests positive for COVID-19 after getting vaccine doses (https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/were-going-to-see-more-man-tests-positive-for-covid-19-after-getting-vaccine-dose-c-2132136)
Source:7news.com.au

The vaccine is not 100% effective, even after the second dose, that's why herd immunity is so important.

[shockNwave]

Victoria now going back into stage 4 restrictions for 5 days and let's hope it doesn't extend beyond that.

[Trent]

Waiting for all the people to start complaining about the Victoria lockdown... that don�t actually live in Victoria or know anyone affected by it.

[gamblor916]

Waiting for all the people to start complaining about the Victoria lockdown... that don�t actually live in Victoria or know anyone affected by it.

I haven't seen some relatives for more than 2 years. That is a good thing.

[shockNwave]

Glad the 5 day lockdown is over. I intend to name this Saturday either Paleotrex or Black Arachnia Day.😉

[DELTAprime]

I just found out today that I qualify to get my Covid vaccine now. Just one issue, getting an appointment slot is not going to be easy.

[DELTAprime]

How are you guys going down in Brisbane? Up here in Gladstone, we have had our first-ever confirmed case of Covid after a guy travelled from Brisbane and stayed in the area that ended up having the UK strain.

So far everyone that has been tested has come back with a negative test, so it looks like he didn't spread it. We are not getting a lockdown here because there is no evidence of community transmission, but everyone is on edge.

[kovert]

A lot more people were seen wearing masks today at the shops in Brisbane. At Woolworths, the toilet paper stock was running fairly low although not the aisle wasn't completely bare yet. People were conscious about keeping a 1.5 m gap, which resulted in a long queue back to the freezers. Supermarkets will still be open during the lockdown so there is no need for panic buying.

Additional information about the three day COVID-19 lockdown in Greater Brisbane* starting from 29 March 2021 at 17:00 can be found on the <Queensland Government website (https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/urgent-covid-19-update#qld-restrictions)>.

* Greater Brisbane LGAs include City of Brisbane, City of Ipswich, Logan City, Moreton Bay Region, Redland City.

[christalcase]

I don't understand the panic buying now. The first time around, fine, that's understandable due to the fear and uncertainty. But as we've learnt from the two lockdowns we've had (the initial weeks long one in 2020, and then the three-day one earlier in 2021), shops remained open and stock levels end up being sufficient so there's no reason to stock up to crazy levels.

[kovert]

Yep. The panic buying is likely to be the cause of stock shortages in many cases.

[DELTAprime]

So I managed to get my first Covid shot yesterday. My arm feels like it's about to fall off and I am slightly headachey, but otherwise, it's gone well.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

That sounds exciting.

Here in Japan the numbers of cases are increasing, currently with daily rates of 500+ people in some cities. Osaka is the leader at the moment and Japan has implemented a "medical emergency" state. So instead of a State of emergency tits a medical one. Apparently less stringent than the SOE.
HOWEVER, the SOE only closes bars/restaurants at 8pm and issues fines.
I read and article and the Governor/mayor of Osaka was stating they are unsure of the true state of COVID in the area. That is because they make it extremely hard to get a test here. On top of that, I hear that if you don't go to a national hospital/clinic, it doesn't get counted anyway.
this new one does the same, but rewards places for having acrylic separators between customers. So one could argue these new measures are more stringent than the SOE. Incidentally why the separators thing wasn't implemented sooner is baffling.
Well, not really. There has been pretty much a hands off approach by the govt in controlling this an they've been spouting the same advice (Wash your hands, wear a mask and gargle regularly) since this all began. Naturally people are getting tired of it and slacking off (also, party season again).

To be honest, I'm very surprised Japan hasn't been devastated by the covid and think it's been very lucky. There were/are no awareness campaigns endorsed by the govt. Stay home was a thing for the first SOE (last year), yet while it was going on there was much dragging of feet and little preparation made at that time and social distancing is mainly used by comedians as a dumb gag when someone gets close. There is none in the shops, trains, anywhere. Plus it's practically hard to implement in many places.

The only positive move I've seen is a wider acceptance of remote working. But I've noticed that as the new work/school year has started, many places are bringing people in to the office and the trains are crowding up again.
Olympics? Pfah! dont get me started.

Man, where did this all come from?

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I read that Constitutionally the Japanese government has pretty limited options when it comes to implementing and/or enforcing restrictions. So that's one thing.

How's the vaccination situation over there @Tets?

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Yeah they are hamstringed that's for sure. That's why I think they should go on a bit of a media blitz to educate people. But that's not the way the old guys like it.

Vaccination situation is a far off dream at the moment.

[DELTAprime]

Yeah they are hamstringed that's for sure. That's why I think they should go on a bit of a media blitz to educate people. But that's not the way the old guys like it.

Vaccination situation is a far off dream at the moment.

I guess no trips for me to Japan in the near future...

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I guess no trips for me to Japan in the near future...

Unless you're an athelete. J Govt. is desperate to make the Olympics work.

[jimoinj]

I think this thread deserves resurrection for the clustermess which NSW Government has made of suppressing the virus, locking down too slow, bringing in harsher restrictions too late. To the point at which half the country is now in lockdown and there is a national emergency. So much for the gold standard and proudly not being quick to lockdown.

[1AZRAEL1]

Gladys is squarely to blame. More I could say, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

[Handsprime]

So much for the Woman who saved Australia.

[DELTAprime]

We have had a bit of a scare up here in regional QLD today. A flight attendant tested positive for Delta. But it was only caught by a test the other day and she was potentially infecting people across regional QLD for almost 2 weeks.

So far nobody here in Gladstone has been confirmed positive, but they have set up a drive-through testing centre that they want people to go to.

With how Annastacia is handling it I'm guessing we will have a snap lockdown if one person is infected locally and then people will complain about the politicians putting public health and safety first.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Oh dear, that didn't age well. (https://mobile.twitter.com/kyleandjackieo/status/1400576312452915204?fbclid=IwAR0VLB3jZIDGHTZzodh3O ShfjaqsH7R--fgAxHTl1MjdZlfMpnMuN1JCoFA)

(Gladys on Kyle and Jackie O ~6 weeks ago saying that she wasn't going to send any Pfizer to Melbourne, it was OK because the Federal Government had plenty of AstraZeneca to spare, and then Kyle asks why everyone always expects NSW to save their mistakes, prompting Gladys to wax lyrical on the benefit of not having 'easy' lockdowns).

[Golden Phoenix]

There are a LOT of interviews from Gladys, Scomo, and the Victorian Liberals that haven't aged well.

[shockNwave]

I think this thread deserves resurrection for the clustermess which NSW Government has made of suppressing the virus, locking down too slow, bringing in harsher restrictions too late. To the point at which half the country is now in lockdown and there is a national emergency. So much for the gold standard and proudly not being quick to lockdown.

Last year NSW was puffing out it's chest while looking down on Victoria which was under the virus lockdown kosh. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

[Handsprime]

So much for the Gold Standard state (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-24/anti-covid-lockdown-protest-in-sydney-cbd/100320620)

[1AZRAEL1]

Protests in Brisbane and Canberra too. People really breed with vegetables

[Jaxius._]

the Victorian Liberals

So no one important
Watching Dan's press conference this morning it was ammusing to see him completely shut down questions related to vic libs

[DELTAprime]

So SEQ is back in lockdown. I really hope people actually follow the mask rules and stay at home. I don't want the same thing to happen here that's going on in NSW.

[Dkaris]

I booked in for pfizer months ago (under 40 prior health issues) spent 2 hours by train getting to Olympic Park, stood in line, got rained on. Got through to the waiting room. My number was called.. went to the nurse pod to get my jab. Nurse asks where my letter from my GP is. I ask her what she's talking about. Since the stuff ups with astra zucchini you need a document from your gp to get Pfizer. She asked me what my history was. I rattled off my health issues which kind of frustrated me. Only to be told they won't vaccinate me. I tell her it would've been nice to have been told I needed a letter before I wasted my time getting out there. I won't be rushing back, I talked to my GP. Apparently there is more scrutiny around requiring a letter. I do tknow why I'm so surprised how badly the state and federal government's have fucked this rollout.

[G1Optimal]

I booked in for pfizer months ago (under 40 prior health issues) spent 2 hours by train getting to Olympic Park, stood in line, got rained on. Got through to the waiting room. My number was called.. went to the nurse pod to get my jab. Nurse asks where my letter from my GP is. I ask her what she's talking about. Since the stuff ups with astra zucchini you need a document from your gp to get Pfizer. She asked me what my history was. I rattled off my health issues which kind of frustrated me. Only to be told they won't vaccinate me. I tell her it would've been nice to have been told I needed a letter before I wasted my time getting out there. I won't be rushing back, I talked to my GP. Apparently there is more scrutiny around requiring a letter. I do tknow why I'm so surprised how badly the state and federal government's have fucked this rollout.

I thought it was only astrazenica that needed a doctors letter??

[DELTAprime]

It seems really stupid that they are requiring a letter from your doctor. All I had to do to get my vaccine back in April was fill out the details in the federal government's questionnaire.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

PSA for Tassie folk: bookings (registration and actual appointments, you have to do both) are now open for 30s+. Pfizer. Actual jabs start early-mid September. No doctor's notes necessary, though obviously check with them if you have any issues of concern. https://www.coronavirus.tas.gov.au/vaccination-information/covid-19-vaccination/Book-your-vaccine , or Tasmanian Public Health Hotline: 1800 671 73 .

Get in quick before Gladys Berejiklian comes over the Bass Strait on the Ruby Princess and steals them all!

[morg176]

More an unresolved observation than anything, but on the worldometers.info website, under the countries listing for corona, there are daily new infections/recoveries graphs for each country (orange and green graph). Some countries such as Australia and Canada have 'recovery spikes' that stand out as interesting if nothing else. What caused these recovery spikes, can 'it' be induced to recover more people?

Your thoughts and assumptions : )

[G1Optimal]

What do people think about the nsw police taking over the nsw healh orders and getting lawyers to help them

[Sinnertwin]

What do people think about the nsw police taking over the nsw healh orders and getting lawyers to help them

Not much tbh
PolAir is doing fly bys 4 times a day in Western Sydney, while over at Bondi the locals & Police don't give a shit.

[morg176]

Rapid antigen tests are looking interesting. Quick 15min test to see if you have c19. High enough accuracy and more convenient than a pcr. Especially if it didn't involve a long cotton bud swab.

[Seraphim Prime]

More an unresolved observation than anything, but on the worldometers.info website, under the countries listing for corona, there are daily new infections/recoveries graphs for each country (orange and green graph). Some countries such as Australia and Canada have 'recovery spikes' that stand out as interesting if nothing else. What caused these recovery spikes, can 'it' be induced to recover more people?

Your thoughts and assumptions : )

It's hard to say for the newer spikes, but part of the large spikes last year would be a combination of what defines "recovery" and when that milestone is reported - quite possibly a single day when a lot of the low impact cases were transferred from "active" to "recovered"

[jimoinj]

Well Australia's gone from being a poster child for good COVID policy to a basketcase. Super smart delaying NSW lockdown by 10 days, then going in very soft, and allowing people outside the poor areas to flout the rules. Super smart. Thanks Gladys and Morrison.

[1AZRAEL1]

Oh the things I'd like to say about the botched lockdown. But also if people would do the right thing, it wouldn't be as bad. Can't trust humans.

[morg176]

You don't really know what effect, if any, lockdown is having because there is no decernable control group.

[1AZRAEL1]

Yes and no. Time will tell. How long did other states wait to lockdown when cases started popping up? How long did NSW take? Hard to close the gates once the horse bolts

[1AZRAEL1]

The aim of a lockdown is to keep the numbers as low as possible so the already overstretched health system can cope.

[Dkaris]

I got my first shot of astra zucchini today. I think the media should be focusing more on the vaccination statistics each slday instead of new cases.

[Autocon]

You don't really know what effect, if any, lockdown is having because there is no decernable control group.

WA VS NSW

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

^^Tassie.

[Handsprime]

Boy can't wait till this clip becomes relevant soon. (https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/sydney-lockdown-protest-1000-cases/)

[1AZRAEL1]

I'm kinda pissed that footy stars get treated differently. Sack em. Breaching the rules more than once is not "error in judgement" it's "I'm a star I can do what I want"

[griffin]

I'll try to keep this brief, as I've been avoiding posting in this topic after it was correctly pointed out that I don't follow a wide enough range of news sources to get the full picture, as I was always just referring to ABC and SBS news reports and websites in my covid updates in this topic back during the first wave, without referring to right-leaning sources like Fox News and their newspapers (which I don't have access to anyway).
I just preferred not to watch or refer to the commercial news programs because they are influenced by advertisers and their owners, making them unreliable... and fortunately I didn't have access to Sky News or printed newspapers, which are worse for being privately owned or controlled by one or two rich people.
The news programs I watch that I recommend...
- ABC - news24, Insiders, News Breakfast, Planet America, Media Watch, and whenever Casey Briggs is on with his covid graphs and stats (for over a year now).
- SBS - evening news, PBS newshour (publicly funded, so no owners interfering or vetoing content), This Week (only on Mondays here), American ABC news (commercial news, but one of the more centrist news programs over there, always declaring if they are covering news that relates to one of their owners or partners), and sometimes BBC news and Al Jazeera news for news on Europe, Middle East and Africa that you don't get on commercial channels.
- TEN - The Project (it's left leaning, but sometimes focuses on important things, and can make them entertaining enough to have to pay attention to things you need to know about), The Late Show (yes, with Stephen Colbert... his opening 15 minutes covers a lot of American news in a comedic light)
If you watch enough centrist news programs, you don't even need to watch left or right leaning programs (like Sky News) because their content is often referred to, if it is factually incorrect or misleading (like climate change deniers, covid deniers, anti-vaxxers, etc).
You have no idea how much is going on around the world until you turn away from the commercial news programs and switch on global news programs. You may think, "why should I care about what happens outside of my country, or even my city", but everything that affects us domestically has influences or causes from beyond our borders... like how much things cost, how much you earn, how many people have a job, and of course this pandemic. Not knowing about what is happening in other countries, even in countries that you may not have heard about, can leave us unprepared for what our future holds as a country.

So, on topic now...
Watching the news programs today about the covid/lockdown protests around the country today... humans can be so selfish. After we saw the Sydney covid cases spike after their big protest march (and continue to spiral out of control since then), we see a 100s of people in Melbourne in a tightly packed group and minimal masking, protesting lockdowns, but are actually making sure it lasts longer because all the extra cases will drag out the current spread even longer.
We've seen in NSW (and this last week in VIC) just how much more contagious the Delta strain is over last year's Alpha strain outbreaks. Alpha was spreading to 1 or 2 other people on average, so a lockdown was able to stop enough people contacting other people to create enough dead ends for the virus, while quarantining enough known contacts to prevent transmission from people who haven't yet been confirmed to be infected. Unfortunately, that element of contact tracing is impossible to do when there are hundreds of cases generating thousands of potential contacts that are spreading the virus for several days before they are tracked down.
In comparison, Delta is said to be spreading to 5 to 8 people on average, which means just to keep the case numbers steady, they have to lockdown or isolate at least 80% of people who've been at a contamination site... and just about everywhere is a contamination site in Sydney by now. So you just need 20% of the people not limiting their movements to keep infecting more people than the number of infected people being isolated.
Reducing the movement of people was enough to eliminate the Alpha strain outbreaks... but it isn't enough for the Delta strain, even if you don't have tools intentionally violating distancing and masking requirements (I think Brisbane just got lucky this month with their outbreak, but with NSW cases just south of a high-traffic border, expect new infections in SE QLD within the next 2 weeks).

Some of the protesters today on camera were saying that covid doesn't even exist and that the media was to blame for spreading that fake news... that's like "flat earth theory" level of nuts there, thinking that all of those people dying, all of the hospital staff, and the grieving relatives all around the world, are all fake, like paid actors. Those people at the protests (and those not adhering to lockdown/masking mandates) should be forced to spend time at the covid wards in the hospitals, to not only see that it is real, but also to see what damage they are helping spread... particularly those protesters who do accept it exists, but believe it isn't that serious or isn't likely to affect them, or anyone around them.
People who claim that "only 1% will die" are not only heartless, but are unfamiliar with how maths work. For a country like Australia, that's about 260,000 people dying, and about 3 million people with symptoms that require hospitalisation (we see how just a couple hundred cases in Sydney hospitals have stretched their medical resources) and end up with shorter lifespans from long term symptoms due to the virus destroying their lungs and nervous system. The news here doesn't cover that, but in American news programs, they will sometimes talk about the 10% who get covid symptoms who end up suffering from them long after recovering from the virus... those who had serious symptoms are unable to work or live a full life, and are expected to have a shortened lifespan. Those "only 1%" people who refuse to get vaccinated, are most likely going to be in that 10% who will live out the rest of their shortened lives regretting not having the vaccine.
This virus is contemporary proof of Darwin's theory of evolution, with mutations occurring around the world, but the stronger mutations become the dominant strain... and future mutations that are even more destructive and contagious, will keep becoming the dominant strain until all of the unvaccinated are dead and there is no one left to harbour the virus long enough for it to mutate and spread (vaccinated people only appear to be dying if their immune system didn't generate anti-bodies, or are also suffering from something else at the same time). This Delta mutation has resulted in hundreds of children under 12 in hospital in America, because the vaccine hasn't been tested and cleared for kids under 12... so what if the next mutation is able to infect and kill children at the same rate as the elderly... would covid deniers and anti-vaxxers have a different opinion if it was their children at risk.
And masks have been proven to work, otherwise doctors wouldn't use them, and they have to be the smartest people in the world, as they need the highest marks from school and do 18-20 years education. Medications like vaccines are made by doctors and scientists, and are only used because they were proven to work in trials (or at the very worst, are significantly the better option in terms of odds of dying)... and like with EVERY medication you take, there are potential side effects (more people die from aspirin and paracetamol medications than vaccine medications).
If the smartest people in the world recommend something and set the example, then isn't it the dumbest people who do the opposite?

[griffin]

I'm kinda pissed that footy stars get treated differently. Sack em. Breaching the rules more than once is not "error in judgement" it's "I'm a star I can do what I want"

Indeed. There are people who can't visit sick or dying relatives in other states, but sports stars and celebrities are getting exemptions (which ultimately benefits the greater community for keeping some things normal to distract us for a little while), so those people should respect the exemptions and thank their lucky stars that they are given special treatment, since it helps out their bank balance for staying in work while so many others are out of work.

[jimoinj]

Spot on Griffin. It is astonishing to me that anyone would ever vote Liberal again after a combination of NSW and Federal Government allowed the Delta outbreak to spiral out of control by being slow to lockdown, then locking down very soft and inconsistently. And now saying Delta can never be eliminated and we have to 'live' with it, to excuse their mistakes. And then to promise no more lockdowns once vaccination targets of 70-80 per cent are reached, despite this only being 56 per cent of the actual population (counting children), and therefore not being enough to achieve herd immunity. It's like we are going to go down the American path now where high infection and death rates are tolerated in the name of staying open and people being allowed to have haircuts. And to appease the nutters (both within the LNP/ONP and the general community).

[Tha_Phantom]

Spot on Griffin. It is astonishing to me that anyone would ever vote Liberal again after a combination of NSW and Federal Government allowed the Delta outbreak to spiral out of control by being slow to lockdown, then locking down very soft and inconsistently. And now saying Delta can never be eliminated and we have to 'live' with it, to excuse their mistakes. And then to promise no more lockdowns once vaccination targets of 70-80 per cent are reached, despite this only being 56 per cent of the actual population (counting children), and therefore not being enough to achieve herd immunity. It's like we are going to go down the American path now where high infection and death rates are tolerated in the name of staying open and people being allowed to have haircuts. And to appease the nutters (both within the LNP/ONP and the general community).

They're right, it can't be eliminated. Did you read the statistics griffin quoted above? It's simply too contagious, all we can do is slow it down.
Let's put NSW aside for a second, both Vic and NZ locked down as soon as they got a whiff of delta and yet their numbers are still going up.
Vaccinations really are the only path out of this. And yes we need to lockdown for the meantime.

[1AZRAEL1]

What I find funny, in a really sad way, is passenger transport workers were not given priority vaccinations. Yet we travel through or live in the LGAs that have really tight restrictions. Given the fact that it would be easy for us to spread it far and wide or catch it from the uncleansed filth that are still doing the wrong thing. Or that we're being told that if a train has to be taken out for a deep clean because of a case, we're instructed not to inform the customer's who are on the train. And the NSW Health website is a maze to book in, and couldn't. So I'll just call up local pharmacies to book in instead

[jimoinj]

They're right, it can't be eliminated. Did you read the statistics griffin quoted above? It's simply too contagious, all we can do is slow it down.
Let's put NSW aside for a second, both Vic and NZ locked down as soon as they got a whiff of delta and yet their numbers are still going up.
Vaccinations really are the only path out of this. And yes we need to lockdown for the meantime.

Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, WA and NT all have it under control because they all follow the right policies. I'm confident NZ will get it under control with their zero tolerance approach to COVID (harder lockdowns than anywhere in Australia at any stage - even takeaways closed). Gladys let Delta run out of control with her half-lockdown. Too busy listening to the business lobby who wanted to avoid lockdown at all costs. We know from the US and India how infectious it is. Yet she had unvaccinated people driving international air crew around (presumably also unvaccinated!).

[Zippo]

A week into the New Zealand lockdown; as an essential worker I am at work every day "as normal" just with less traffic on the roads and from today, no takeaway coffee as they decided to remove the ability for service stations and food places that are allowed open to sell it. Guess we shall see what happens on Friday if its "the rest vs Auckland" or "the South vs the North" .. no way will Auckland end Level 4 lockdown on the 31st.

[auskinglj]

It's sad that i have to watch news about two n.s.w local government councils (Bourke and Cobar)shooting dead dogs that were going to be picked up by animal shelter volunteers to re-homed because of covid by an american youtuber to then have to search to find the story https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/nsw-council-shoots-rescue-dogs-to-prevent-covid-19-spread/

on a side note can i mention friendlyjordies on youtube, His investigation into water mismanagement and the nationals party. Though not covid related they should make you understand why nsw is a covid mess

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Hi all, guy from Japan here, just thought I would chime in here as well.
Place is messed up man. Olympics round 2 happening, more covid cases than when it forst started and because of Govt mishandling the situation immensely the local population isn't doing much ti curb the spread. Many places are business as usual, despite pretty much half the country being in a "state of emergency."

So far the effects of states of emergency relate to
1.Govt. asking companies to allow staff to work from home if they can
2.Restaurants not serving alcohol after 8pm.
3. that's it.
Neither of these points have penalties to them if ignored.
I can sort of see the alcohol thing, and TBH it surprised me that so many people object to it. Like, do you really need alcohol THAT much? Apparently they do. Earlier there was talk about this alcohol thing affecting business because dinners, booze and business were so integral to Japanese working habits. Personally I see it as a crutch to cope with all the other BS that stems from JPN society.

1&2 have pretty much been the only steps taken by the gov since the cOVID thing started. Right now, the hospitals in tokyo and surrounding areas are struggling to take Covid patients because there are so few public hospitals and private ones wont take them because of the money side of things, or they don't have the resources. However disgust is beginning to show, as a pregnant woman lost her 8mth child as she had complications and nowhere would accept her.
You wouldn't think that Japan has had almost 2 years to prepare.

On top of that, while they are rolling out vaccines, it's very very slow. There was a big push when private companies were organising them for staff and things were moving well, but then, bam, a vaccine shortage. Now the govt is doing it and every week on Monday morning, the booking website is slammed for 30 minutes and then all bookings are taken. It's ridiculous! Too bad if you want a vaccine, you've gotta be darn lucky to get a booking. It's easier to get concert tickets than it is to get a vaccine booking.

Trains are packed, shops are packed, day care, schools, kindergartens all packed. Numbers reported from the covid website seem fairly low, but the amount of effort required to actually get a PCR test done means you're half dead anyway.
On the 24th August, place had 21000 NEW cases reported. I suspect that actual cases are MUCH MUCH higher as they don't properly trace or test very much at all.

The govt can't drop a proper lockdown with penalties it would seem, but last year everyone took the "shutdown" pretty seriously, but I think with the Olympics happenin now, many people are tired, or its only effected people they don't know, so now very few people seem to be taking any action. While I like to think that people can think by themselves, it seems to me that this may not actually be the case. And in Japan, unless the government leads first, businesses are unlikely to follow . (This is all related to the aging population of Japan and the politicians all being old men as well. Truly archaic, but that's a whole other rant)

Place is screwed. Stay away for a while.

[jimoinj]

Hi all, guy from Japan here, just thought I would chime in here as well.
Place is messed up man. Olympics round 2 happening, more covid cases than when it forst started and because of Govt mishandling the situation immensely the local population isn't doing much ti curb the spread. Many places are business as usual, despite pretty much half the country being in a "state of emergency."

So far the effects of states of emergency relate to
1.Govt. asking companies to allow staff to work from home if they can
2.Restaurants not serving alcohol after 8pm.
3. that's it.
Neither of these points have penalties to them if ignored.
I can sort of see the alcohol thing, and TBH it surprised me that so many people object to it. Like, do you really need alcohol THAT much? Apparently they do. Earlier there was talk about this alcohol thing affecting business because dinners, booze and business were so integral to Japanese working habits. Personally I see it as a crutch to cope with all the other BS that stems from JPN society.

1&2 have pretty much been the only steps taken by the gov since the cOVID thing started. Right now, the hospitals in tokyo and surrounding areas are struggling to take Covid patients because there are so few public hospitals and private ones wont take them because of the money side of things, or they don't have the resources. However disgust is beginning to show, as a pregnant woman lost her 8mth child as she had complications and nowhere would accept her.
You wouldn't think that Japan has had almost 2 years to prepare.

On top of that, while they are rolling out vaccines, it's very very slow. There was a big push when private companies were organising them for staff and things were moving well, but then, bam, a vaccine shortage. Now the govt is doing it and every week on Monday morning, the booking website is slammed for 30 minutes and then all bookings are taken. It's ridiculous! Too bad if you want a vaccine, you've gotta be darn lucky to get a booking. It's easier to get concert tickets than it is to get a vaccine booking.

Trains are packed, shops are packed, day care, schools, kindergartens all packed. Numbers reported from the covid website seem fairly low, but the amount of effort required to actually get a PCR test done means you're half dead anyway.
On the 24th August, place had 21000 NEW cases reported. I suspect that actual cases are MUCH MUCH higher as they don't properly trace or test very much at all.

The govt can't drop a proper lockdown with penalties it would seem, but last year everyone took the "shutdown" pretty seriously, but I think with the Olympics happenin now, many people are tired, or its only effected people they don't know, so now very few people seem to be taking any action. While I like to think that people can think by themselves, it seems to me that this may not actually be the case. And in Japan, unless the government leads first, businesses are unlikely to follow . (This is all related to the aging population of Japan and the politicians all being old men as well. Truly archaic, but that's a whole other rant)

Place is screwed. Stay away for a while.

Thanks Tetuswan. Great example of what happens in a country that gets bored of trying to control COVID, or indeed barely even tries.

[DELTAprime]

No wonder I never got my Transformers from Japan that were sent back when the state of emergency started. There are much bigger issues in Japan than sending packages around the world.

If people don't go get vaccinated and the government takes Covid seriously we will end up in the same situation in Australia.

[Golden Phoenix]

Had my first vaccine shot today. I had booked for Astrazenica 3 weeks ago because that's all I was eligible for at the time.

When I turned up today and went through the queue the guy who checked me in asked if I wanted to change to Pfizer. Thought that was nice that they are allowing people to swap on the day.

Only a few hours since the jab but so far no side effects other than a slightly sore arm.

[Tha_Phantom]

Had my first vaccine shot today. I had booked for Astrazenica 3 weeks ago because that's all I was eligible for at the time.

When I turned up today and went through the queue the guy who checked me in asked if I wanted to change to Pfizer. Thought that was nice that they are allowing people to swap on the day.

Only a few hours since the jab but so far no side effects other than a slightly sore arm.

Yeah had my first pfizer shot on Monday. The sore arm will peak tonight and should go away by tomorrow or the next day. Otherwise I didn't notice anything.

[High_Q]

The sore arm will peak tonight and should go away by tomorrow or the next day. Otherwise I didn't notice anything.

Same here. On my second Pfizer shot, no noticeable effects other than sore arm for a few days. For my first shot though, i did feel fatigue for an hour or so the afternoon of the shot.

[1AZRAEL1]

I'm booked for first Pfizer shot on Tuesday. I'm on leave from work so perfect time to get it.

[DELTAprime]

I went onto Twitter last night and found a bunch of idiots calling Australia fascist because the Queensland government is building a dedicated quarantine facility at Towoomba to be used instead of hotel quarantine. They literally were saying it was a Nazi death camp. Probably the same idiots that have been spreading Covid around NSW instead of staying home.

[Akky82]

I'm booked for first Pfizer shot on Tuesday. I'm on leave from work so perfect time to get it.

Had mine on Thursday, if you can get one our work will pay you while you go out and get it if it's during work hours. I left at 12.30, waited from 1.00 til 1.58, left at 2.15, got told I could go home rather than back to work.

But, am in Brisbane, there's essentially a 6 week+ wait for pfizer, some places being told 3 months, so we have people driving 1.5 hours out to the country to get one when a new regional clinic opens up (Esk was the latest). Other than that, have to keep checking in case someone cancels and an appointment opens up (which happened to me, just randomly checked at 10.30am on Thursday, booked instantly and got it same day). They also say to call up centers and ask if there were any no-shows otherwise they have to throw them out.

Good thing too was they were booking people in afterwards 'same time in 22 days ?' so that was good.

[1AZRAEL1]

Just had first shot of Pfizer. No 5G yet, and sadly haven't turned into the Toxic Avenger :(

[Golden Phoenix]

Just had first shot of Pfizer. No 5G yet, and sadly haven't turned into the Toxic Avenger :(

You'll have another chance with the 2nd shot

[1AZRAEL1]

You'll have another chance with the 2nd shot

But I don't wanna have to wait 2 months for better phone reception and superhero status :(

At least it was quick to get in and out in half hour or so

[1AZRAEL1]

People taking animal anti-worming medication as COVID treatment. But we also had Senator Craig Kelly here telling people to take it as an alternative. You cannot make up this stupidity

[griffin]

People taking animal anti-worming medication as COVID treatment. But we also had Senator Craig Kelly here telling people to take it as an alternative. You cannot make up this stupidity

I started seeing comments and memes on fb about horse dewormer and was really confused, until I saw on the US news program what it was about, and that hundreds of people have been poisoned from it.
Hospitals over there are over stretched dealing with unvaccinated covid patients and now have to deal with more anti-vaxxer idiots doing anything they can to avoid the vaccine... even if it kills them.

[Golden Phoenix]

I legit do not understand this mindset. They won't take the vaccine because 'they dont know whats in it' or 'it hasnt been tested' or some BS like that and then they go off and take all these other things seemingly at the drop of a hat and without hesitation.

It's almost like they are trying anything else just to spite the vaccine.

[1AZRAEL1]

And today, United Australia Party (Clive Palmer and Craig Kelly) sending out unsolicited texts about vaccine reactions. Having politicians trying to inhibit the vaccine roll-out by spreading misinformation, I wish I could say all I want to say, but suffice to say I really dislike them.

[Golden Phoenix]

And today, United Australia Party (Clive Palmer and Craig Kelly) sending out unsolicited texts about vaccine reactions. Having politicians trying to inhibit the vaccine roll-out by spreading misinformation, I wish I could say all I want to say, but suffice to say I really dislike them.

There has been a few articles floating around with Craig's office number and mobile number so you can ask him 'politely' to stop.

[DELTAprime]

I'd love to know who gave UAP my phone number. It's unlisted and up until recently, I've never gotten any spam.

[griffin]

I'd love to know who gave UAP my phone number. It's unlisted and up until recently, I've never gotten any spam.

I got one too, and I think I'm also unlisted.
One news program mentioned that the numbers were likely purchased from a data-collection trader, like when you sign up to retailer programs, your details can often be sold on to marketing companies (often in the fine-print, but sometimes it is done without telling you beforehand).

Or maybe it is automated/random dialling, like the robo-call machines of old, that would call up consecutive numbers and play a recorded message... which I think were banned at some point for tying up everyone's phones all day from the growing number of robo-call machines.

[DELTAprime]

Yeah. Hopefully, they are just dialling sequential numbers. But knowing how things work these days I'm guessing they were given or bought a database of numbers. That's why I'm really wanting to know who gave them my number.

At least Samsung's spam detection is pretty decent in their most recent version of Android. It spam filtered the UAP message almost instantly. But Microsoft's Your Phone app that allows you to see messages on your phone on Windows desktop is not so smart and because of that, I saw the message from UAP.

[1AZRAEL1]

Cool to see our PM get a travel exemption between Sydney and Canberra to see his family for Father's Day... haven't seen my family most of this year. As Mel Brooks says, it's good to be the king...

[GoktimusPrime]

Medical scientist explains how people are far more likely to get blood clots from COVID than from the AZ vaccine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVf_d_Inmo8)

[griffin]

From the American ABC news program from last Monday (I often tape various news programs through the week and catchup on the weekend)... this is how stupid people are getting after politics got involved (getting elected was more important than saving lives, which is what is known as "popularism" - a short term gain that results in long-term problems... but now it is mostly those Republican voters who are dying, in states that ban mask-mandates, and have the lowest vaccine rates).
A "primary" school principal in Arizona had prevented a student from attending a field trip because they had been exposed to covid (which is basic duty of care - if the principal knowingly allowed a potentially infected student to infect others, they and the school would have been sued by every other parent if their children got infected and then infected adult members of the family)... the parent of that affected child, and two male adult friends of the parent, went to the school with zip-ties, to perform a citizens arrest on the principal for interfering with the freedom and liberty of their child.
Really? Treating a health related decision done in good faith, as a major crime.
Fortunately those adults are being investigated for felonies, relating to intimidation and attempted abduction of the principal (even if it was to deliver them to the police, it was still against their will).
And with parents indoctrinating their kids to refuse to wear masks at school, they don't seem to care who dies, just as long as their ego is satisfied, to have the selfish right to do whatever they want at the expense of others.
They want to enjoy the benefits of being in a large organised society, but don't want to contribute themselves to what creates that society and holds it together.
If they want individualism (take all and give nothing) over community (sharing and benefiting from everyone contributing by making small investments or sacrifices), they should move of to the open country somewhere and fend for themselves, without any man-made objects or education or medical science at all.


It is pleasing to note, that despite Australia's slow start to the vaccine rollout (we were one of the worst in the developed world just 2 months ago in July), the rapid acceleration in the last couple of months (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518) (thanks to the incentive of proposed freedom targets, border barriers and the ongoing lockdown in our largest city making the rest of us not want that to happen to us), two of our states this week (NSW & TAS) have now overtaken the percentage coverage of the worst states in America (which are all heavily Republican states), who started their rollout 10 months ago. And we haven't seen the big flattening of the curve that America saw when they were struggling to hit 60% single dose... Australia is currently at 67% single dose, and our daily rates are still going strong.
I think 80% double-dose should be easy to get to here, even taking into account a gradual drop-off as we run out of willing participants... but since more contagious viruses like measles and mumps needed 95% coverage to eliminate them from most of the world, I think we really need to push for 90%+ for covid, to be ready for the next more-deadly variant, especially until under 12s can be vaccinated, as they will remain at risk, and the delta variant is already sending thousands of children into hospitals around the world.

Until there is a cure for covid, it won't be eliminated, but the vaccine will significantly reduce the number of people who will die from it, or have long-term effects that reduce a person's lifespan (if they had symptoms, they never fully go away).
The thing that I'd like to know, is if anyone who caught the alpha strain, also caught the delta strain... as there are people who aren't wanting to risk getting the vaccine because they have already caught the virus and believe that they won't catch it again. But if the anti-bodies slowly disappear over time for those who have the vaccine, it is likely that those same anti-bodies in people who have had the virus will also disappear over time... or don't work against the more powerful strains.
Another excuse by anti-vaxxers, is that people who are vaccinated are still getting covid... but the vaccine doesn't prevent you from catching it (there's no magical forcefield around you - and the anti-bodies are in your blood, not on the surface of your skin, so it can only start working when the virus passes through the skin or mucus membranes), it just helps you attack the virus faster when it does enter your system, reducing the amount of virus that can attack you from the inside, which reduces the number of people needing to be in the hospital, or dying (particularly if they have no other medical issues - we had that teenage boy in Sydney die a few weeks back, because he was also fighting off something else that he would have lived from... he was too young at the time to get vaccinated, but if everyone around him was, he probably wouldn't have caught it and died).
Moving forward, we need to be focussing on the hospitalisation numbers and how many are vaccinated/unvaccinated.
From the September 3rd report from NSW (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/03/nsw-covid-update-another-daily-record-set-with-1431-cases-and-12-deaths-reported) (the first one that came up from a search), it notes that of the 160 people in ICU, only 8 were fully vaccinated - 95% of the people in there, didn't need to be. If everyone was fully vaccinated, the hospital system that is struggling to cope, wouldn't have 90-95% of those cases draining resources (people are dying in America from non-covid injuries, because none of the nearest hospitals could see them), over-working and over-stressing the staff who have to deal with preventable pain and suffering, and costing tax-payers a fortune in extra hospital funding.

We think the delta strain is bad, being 4-5 times more contagious and more likely to affect those who are fully vaccinated if they have other health problems (the alpha variant has almost disappeared in America, with 99% of new cases being found to be the delta variant)... the next variant could be even worse (the Australian ABC "vaccine" report on Friday mapped out how it compares to other contagious viruses, with the alpha strain being spread to an average of 1-3 people, and the delta strain being 7-9 people - I can't find that graph online, but here is the American CDC graph (https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/aug/11/the-cdc-said-the-delta-variant-is-as-contagious/), which has similar numbers, and details how if there were no lockdowns or vaccines, a single person would infect about 200 people with delta after about a week, compared to just 20 people with the alpha strain).

[Golden Phoenix]

We think the delta strain is bad, being 4-5 times more contagious and more likely to affect those who are fully vaccinated if they have other health problems (the alpha variant has almost disappeared in America, with 99% of new cases being found to be the delta variant)... the next variant could be even worse (the Australian ABC "vaccine" report on Friday mapped out how it compares to other contagious viruses, with the alpha strain being spread to an average of 1-3 people, and the delta strain being 7-9 people - I can't find that graph online, but here is the American CDC graph (https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/aug/11/the-cdc-said-the-delta-variant-is-as-contagious/), which has similar numbers, and details how if there were no lockdowns or vaccines, a single person would infect about 200 people with delta after about a week, compared to just 20 people with the alpha strain).

I read that there is a new strain already in Africa that has some people worried that it could be worse. They aren't sure just yet but they think it might be best to act as if it will be worse just in case.

[DELTAprime]

I read that there is a new strain already in Africa that has some people worried that it could be worse. They aren't sure just yet but they think it might be best to act as if it will be worse just in case.

I heard Mu completely avoids human immune responses. Hopefully we can get a booster vaccine for that variant super fast.

[griffin]

And that's the concern... we saw how quickly a variant (mutation) showed up that was 3 times as bad as the original, and there was always a fear that there would be a mutation of the spike proteins that the vaccines target, that would then not be recognised by the anti-bodies that are only able to respond to the original variants.
The faster we can get vaccines or cures (if we had one) out to the people, the quicker we can respond to a new challenge or variant... to adjust the "recipe" of the medications to target new versions faster, because we have hundreds of millions of results from the previous medications already out there.

Just looking at the US vaccination stats (https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker), sorted by state, and with NSW currently at about 78% (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518), it is now better than ALL 50 US states, as their best state for one dose is 76%.

The surge of 1st doses here, waiting for it being possible to get the 2nd dose, has NSW at about 46% fully vaccinated, which is still behind 37 US states.

As of September 10th (at the two links above)...
America - 63.0% first dose - 53.8% fully vaccinated (note - one vaccine of theirs only requires one dose)
Australia - 66.2% first dose - 41.4% fully vaccinated (we don't have the J&J vaccine that only requires one dose)

The slowdown in America saw them take the last 2 months just to get 5% added to their fully vaccinated total... it took Australia just the last 9 days to add 5% to our fully vaccinated total.

Just to get an idea at how quickly we are going compared to America, on July 13th, just 2 months ago (at the two links above)...
America - 55.8% first dose - 48.3% fully vaccinated
Australia - 33.3% first dose - 11.6% fully vaccinated (30% added to our fully vaccinated total, compared to just 5% in America... and 33% added to our first dose total compared to America adding just 7%)

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

They want to enjoy the benefits of being in a large organised society, but don't want to contribute themselves to what creates that society and holds it together.
If they want individualism (take all and give nothing) over community (sharing and benefiting from everyone contributing by making small investments or sacrifices), they should move of to the open country somewhere and fend for themselves, without any man-made objects or education or medical science at all.Not a Covid thing exactly, but apparently a few American libertarians did try this in the mid-2000s (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling). The results were fairly predictable.

[SentienlPrimefan]

Hello Queenslanders

I want to know how the COVID Situation is going in Queensland

Is it bad or is it good

Regards SPF

[DELTAprime]

Hello Queenslanders

I want to know how the COVID Situation is going in Queensland

Is it bad or is it good

Regards SPF

Pretty good. No lockdowns or anything at the moment. Just border closures to NSW.

[Handsprime]

Apparently George Christensen's dumb comments are slowing the vaccine rollouts in Mackay. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-14/george-christensen-ivermectin-feeds-vaccine-hesitancy-says-gp/100457530) ScoMo really needs to get his stuff together and punish his MP for spreading this misinformation. I've read that some people who actually spread this type of stuff are vaccined anyway, so they're spreading misinformation just for outrage, which really gets up my nerve.

[Tha_Phantom]

I am furious that yesterday the NSW deputy premiere went on 2GB radio telling the vaccine-hesistant that they will only have to wait 3-4 weeks to get their freedom back once everything opens up for the fully-vaxxed in NSW.
That is bad enough, but then the real kick to the guts is that he apologised to them for the inconvenience too. :mad:
I have no idea whether or not this was always the plan, but saying it now before we've even reached 70% double vaccination has just undone the motive to get vaccinated for some people. They will probably kick back now and not bother with it, and even if the government does backtrack on this, the fact that people have delayed their shots in the meantime will still cause some damage.
You're an absolute f#&king idiot, John Barilaro.

https://thewest.com.au/news/nsw-deputy-premier-john-barilaro-backs-mandatory-vaccines-for-mps-c-3948147

[SentienlPrimefan]

Pretty good. No lockdowns or anything at the moment. Just border closures to NSW.

So you can clearly travel to every other state than news south wales

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Going in for my 1st shot tomorrow. Don't think I've ever been impatient to get a needle before.

Not sure whether to do a 'turning into the hulk' or 'What's that you say Bill Gates?' act on the way out.:p

[Golden Phoenix]

Going in for my 1st shot tomorrow. Don't think I've ever been impatient to get a needle before.

Not sure whether to do a 'turning into the hulk' or 'What's that you say Bill Gates?' act on the way out.:p

Don't forget the 'checking phone to see improved 5G' or the 'sticking spoon on your head to prove you're now magnetic' gags.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Hello Queenslanders

I want to know how the COVID Situation is going in Queensland

Is it bad or is it good

Regards SPF

I umpire Aussie Rules games up here in NQ and surprisingly no one gives two $h!ts about the virus, we have had players from Cairns to Rocky/Yeppoon in the last three weeks for school sports and there has been no change in how the players interact with each other after the game.
Other than the QR code check in which isn't policed in any way we go about our day as normal in Townsville.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Hello Queenslanders

I want to know how the COVID Situation is going in Queensland

Is it bad or is it good

Regards SPF

So, in a word.

Good.

[Jetfire in the sky]

I am furious that yesterday the NSW deputy premiere went on 2GB radio telling the vaccine-hesistant that they will only have to wait 3-4 weeks to get their freedom back once everything opens up for the fully-vaxxed in NSW.
That is bad enough, but then the real kick to the guts is that he apologised to them for the inconvenience too. :mad:
I have no idea whether or not this was always the plan, but saying it now before we've even reached 70% double vaccination has just undone the motive to get vaccinated for some people. They will probably kick back now and not bother with it, and even if the government does backtrack on this, the fact that people have delayed their shots in the meantime will still cause some damage.
You're an absolute f#&king idiot, John Barilaro.

https://thewest.com.au/news/nsw-deputy-premier-john-barilaro-backs-mandatory-vaccines-for-mps-c-3948147


You do know your DP is a total stooooooge right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihoirTYqf2c

[SentienlPrimefan]

So, in a word.

Good.

thank you also for WA, everything is great

[griffin]

A record day yesterday with over 330,000 shots given in Australia.

It is good to see that our vaccination rates are still going strong after hitting 70% with one dose (getting closer to the percentage of people willing to take the vaccine usually slows down the rate), when in most other countries the rates had dropped off at a much earlier percentage, or even flat-lined like in America when they got to 60%.

[morg176]

And another recovery spike over at the worldometers page

[1AZRAEL1]

Second shot of Pfizer yesterday, run a fever in the early hours of this morning and nausea. Much better now though

[Zippo]

New Zealand seems to be failing; specifically Auckland since there all cases are up there. Lockdown fatigue has set in with gatherings and protests and the outcome is more transmission.

PM seems to indicate that we are still "OK" and that Auckland will get out of lockdown soon but remain locked in the region to prevent spread to the rest of the country.

[Tha_Phantom]

Second shot of Pfizer yesterday, run a fever in the early hours of this morning and nausea. Much better now though

Had my second Pfizer shot a couple of hours ago. I know I'm in for a rough night lol... But worth it.

[1AZRAEL1]

Had my second Pfizer shot a couple of hours ago. I know I'm in for a rough night lol... But worth it.

Agreed. People react differently, you could be fine. My mate had it just before me and he's been fine.

[Tha_Phantom]

Agreed. People react differently, you could be fine. My mate had it just before me and he's been fine.

Yeah, turns out I didn't experience much in the way of side effects other than feeling tired. Had a mildly runny nose and a bit of pain in the arm that got jabbed, but probably wouldn't have noticed either if I wasn't trying to look for things.
Either way, relieved to finally be double dosed. :)

[griffin]

If you are having one of the American vaccines (phizer or moderna), you are more likely to have a reaction to the second shot if you have a weaker/less responsive immune system, especially in states that have shortened the gap to just 3 weeks (from the recommended 6 weeks), as your immune system might still be processing the first dose when you get the second dose.
For me it was really swollen glands, in the armpit of the arm that got the injection and in the neck.
Since vaccines are injected into the flesh and not into an artery/vein, it travels through your lymphatic system to your glands, which then processes them and spreads it through the body... same as with snake bites, which is why the treatment of snake bites is immobilising the person and their bitten limb (with compression bandages), as it slows the lymphatic system (powered by muscle movement) from spreading the venom to the rest of the body, giving you enough time to be treated.


It is a shame that Victoria's numbers have spiked to NSW peak levels... but not surprising once you reach a certain saturation point, as well as the bad timing of some events in the last week (crowds at protests and group viewings of the grand final).
The numbers in NSW are worth boasting to show that the vaccine is working. Lockdown, masking and tracing measures on their own wasn't reducing the spread, because of the more contagious delta variant... but just like in America during the alpha variant earlier this year, once the vaccination rate got high enough, the transmission rate dropped below 1 (the figure relating to how many people an infected person infects before they recover enough to not spread it anymore).
Hopefully with VIC being fairly close behind NSW with vaccination rates, the daily numbers won't be going too much higher, and the spike was limited to just a few days.

As for the deaths and hospitalisations, today's VIC announcement claimed that everyone in hospital and ICU were unvaccinated... which I'd be surprised if it is true, as the NSW numbers have pretty much always had people in hospital who were vaccinated, which goes with the statistics of the vaccine, in that it doesn't completely prevent everyone from going to into hospital, but does significantly reduce the number, which frees up more hospital resources and beds for those people who need it (like non-covid issues).

It was unfortunate that during the week, a particular day reported 7 deaths in NSW, and only one was unvaccinated (three had one shot, three had both shots), as it gave anti-vaxxers ammunition that getting the vaccine increased your chance of dying from covid. It would have been useful to clarify how recently those six had been vaccinated, because if they caught the virus within 3 or 4 days of their vaccination, the single shot people wouldn't have had enough active anti-bodies yet to tackle the virus, and the double shot people would have been the equivalent of a single shot, which is only half protection and more likely to end up in hospital or die compared to fully vaccinated people a couple weeks after their second shot.


Finishing on a positive note, our vaccination rate in Australia (https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-update-2-october-2021) appears to have now over-taken America (https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker).
As of October 1st, both reporting sites cover 12+ ages, and Australia is at 56.0% fully vaccinated compared to America having 55.9%.
While our first shot rate is at 79.0% compared to America at just 64.8%.
And since America was vaccinating their 12-15 age group a month or so earlier, ours is only at about 2% fully vaccinated, but 40% of ours have already had the first shot, which could see that demographic rapidly add to our total vaccination rate in the next 3-4 weeks as their second shot is due.
The ACT has to be commended, as they have hit 92% first shot... one of the best rates in the world, especially if all of them get their second shot, and more still get their first.
And by the end of this next week, we expect NSW to be the first state to hit 70% fully vaccinated, and also be more vaccinated than every USA state (their best state is at 69.5%), despite their significant headstart.
But since the vaccine has been less politicised in Australia (we didn't have one of our two major parties dismissing the virus and vaccine like they did in America, leading to five times more Republicans dying from covid than Democrats), and Australia has been tougher with restrictions (lockdowns, border closures, mask mandates, gathering limits), our deaths rate is also significantly less than America - 13,270 died in the last week in America (equals 40.2 per million) compared to Australia's 103 in the last week (equals 4 per million).
In other words, the stats (science) doesn't lie... vaccines and preventative measures work, preventing deaths and clogged hospitals that need to be available to help other life-threatening emergencies.

[Tha_Phantom]

It's simply too contagious, all we can do is slow it down.
Let's put NSW aside for a second, both Vic and NZ locked down as soon as they got a whiff of delta and yet their numbers are still going up.
Vaccinations really are the only path out of this. And yes we need to lockdown for the meantime.

Nearly two months on and this is still the situation. NSW's cases have been declining thanks to vaccinations and Victoria has overtaken us in the daily numbers (they haven't beaten our peak though).
Although they've kept their daily numbers pretty low, NZ has accepted that entirely eliminating covid is unrealistic. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-04/new-zealand-extends-auckland-lockdown-but-eases-some-coronavirus/100512666)
Roll up those sleeves people!

Edit: spoke too soon, Victoria has overtaken NSW's peak daily case number as of today. :(

[griffin]

Lockdowns do impact on everyone, especially businesses, students and many workers... and agreeing with an earlier sentiment they are necessary to insulate the hospitals from being swamped until vaccination rates are high enough, like childhood vaccines need to be to reduce or eliminate things like whooping cough and measles. We already have states unable to do elective and non-urgent surgeries, blowing out already long waiting lists, and states like QLD had all this time to increase resources at hospitals ready for borders to be opened in the next few months and they know that living with covid means a certain amount of daily cases, which will result in people in hospital.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Tassie's had a breach. 1x exposure site (some 15-year-old breaking quarantine to go to an IGA with his older mate/brother, I forget which) in Newnham, Launceston. 2.20-2.45pm yesterday. The kid had come from Victoria and was confirmed positive.
So far most of the contacts are returning negative, which is good, but it's early days. Fingers crossed we get lucky with this one.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Jab #2 today. So far so good, sore arm again with a little heat around the injection site, slightly tired but have been that way all day so it's likely due to being slightly busy lately/a little run-down, possible slight fever but very slight.
Fingers crossed for the next few days.

Day #2 - slight fever, very mild pain in the arm around the injection site, yesterday's heat in the arm has gone. :-)

[G1Optimal]

Has anyone heard any updates of the omicron variant as in how severe the sickness is?

[DELTAprime]

I wouldn't get too worked up over Omicron yet. The WHO's labelled other strains as Variant of Concern before and they haven't caused the massive death tolls.

[G1Optimal]

Thanks for that info

[Autocon]

More infectious but not more deadly. What is alarming over omicron is the great change in the virus. Something like 30 differences to the spike protein.

[griffin]

More infectious but not more deadly. What is alarming over omicron is the great change in the virus. Something like 30 differences to the spike protein.

That's the impression I get so far too... more infectious (spreadable), but at this stage no more deadly (one report mentioned that it could be less deadly, as the many mutations may not have resulted in a virus that did more damage to those who got infected... but still too early too tell).

The four important factors to keep in mind with any new virus or mutation of a virus...
- spreadability from an infected host
- absorption rate by others (how easily it is picked up by others, and how easily it enters their body, as different viruses have different absorption means, like through the lungs, through the skin, through the nose, through genitals, etc... but not necessarily through all of them)
- severity of infection (from not affecting you at all, to killing you)
- resistance to existing medication (preventative medication known as vaccines, and responsive medications)

Omicron so far sounds like it is only more spreadable and more absorbable, but early evidence suggests the other two factors are no worse, which is at least better than Delta, because it was worse on all four factors.... as we saw when it became the dominant strain and resulted in increased hospitalisations and deaths, even after the vaccines were rolled out.
The travel bans are not intended to stop the spread.... it is just a temporary measure to slow the spread a bit, to buy us more time to work out if it is more deadly (and update vaccines if it is resistant).... and not panic early if it is not actually necessary.

[DELTAprime]

Borders to Queensland opened the other day, now people around here are starting to finally take covid more seriously.

[1AZRAEL1]

Cases start spiking, health says keep up with masks and QR codes, premier says no we'll stop those. Never thought I'd say it, but this new guy is worse than Gladrags.

[griffin]

I think the daily reports and mass media should start focussing on the hospital numbers, and not the case numbers, as we don't want people to think that the vaccine isn't working if we are seeing huge case numbers, because the vaccine isn't a force-field... the virus is airborne and anyone can catch it... the vaccine will just make it better for you to fight off the virus when (not if) you catch it, increasing the odds of keeping you out of hospital and death.
I am really hoping that this new variant that is super contagious ends up being very mild with its symptoms and risk of death, so that it spreads fast and prevents people from catching the more deadly variants, which causes them to die off. I would imagine that is what happened with the "Spanish Flu" 100 years ago, as it didn't just disappear and we didn't vaccinate the world against it, so it should have kept killing millions every year since then. It is likely to have also mutated into a milder version that then blended with the regular global flu viruses (which still kill people every year, but not nearly as many as Covid/Sars does).


Cases start spiking, health says keep up with masks and QR codes, premier says no we'll stop those. Never thought I'd say it, but this new guy is worse than Gladrags.

He's probably just towing the company line to help his party's Prime Minister to keep his job at next year's election, who is really ramping up his election pitch of "government is to take a step back from controlling our lives"... which in itself is pitching to the radicals looking to United and One Nation, not because Morrison agrees with them, but to (re)capture that 5-10 percent that may get him over the line next year. (Morrison is just following trump's play-book, of appealing to the extremists, not because they share any common values with the party, but because it was enough to get him over the line in 2016, along with the party faithful who would vote for anyone who is their candidate - it was just easier to appeal to that small number of extremists necessary to win, than to work hard at winning over enough swing-vote independents or democrat followers).

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Welp, Tassie opened up on the 15th, and right away first case the next day. For all that the risk of quarantine etc. was kind of a pain I did quite like living in a State that was pretty Covid-free. It was nice while it lasted.

[DELTAprime]

I just got my brain tickled. I hope I get the all-clear before my shift on boxing day so I don't miss out on them penalty rates.

[griffin]

Those case numbers in the last few days is really eye-watering. Such rapid increase shows just how contagious this new variant is.
We thought Delta was really bad with it being 3-4 times more contagious, but Omicron looks to be at least ten times as contagious as that, particularly when you take into account the preventative measures Australia has in place making us one of the best countries in the world for limiting the spread (vaccine rates the highest in the world, mask mandates, density limits in public places).
The friday numbers was just under 10,000 for the country, with every state and territory reporting case numbers.
QLD certainly had the fastest growth in numbers this week, most likely due to the flood of tourists from other states now allowed to spend their christmas vacation there, and people only needed a negative result 3 days before they travel, allowing them to catch it at any time after that and bring it across the border.

The important thing to hope for is that this variant is indeed less deadly, and we don't see those huge numbers translate into hospital admissions. I think the vaccine will play a major role in that, as it will be helping most people fight off the virus before it multiplies too much within their body and overwhelms their immune system.

But even if people aren't filling hospitals, the current processes require people who have had a positive result to isolate along with any close contacts, and if we start getting close to 100,000 cases per day within a week, it will disrupt events and businesses worse than when there was the advance-warning of a government-announced lockdown, as thousands of events or businesses will now have to suddenly be cancelled due to just one positive case, who could be a close contact to others.


One of the new workers at my workplace is a mid-20s guy who thinks he's invincible, boasting the other day that he'll never get the vaccine or wear a mask, because he believes that he won't die because he doesn't believe he has any other underlying conditions.
There is so much to unpack with that... even healthy people get sick, and if you don't die from it, you are likely to have symptoms for the rest of your (shortened) life... not to mention the irresponsibility of possibly passing it onto someone who is at high risk, either from an immune system that didn't respond to the vaccine, or have other medical issues.

[Sinnertwin]

Either this new strand isn't as deadly as it's being made out to be, or the government simply doesn't care enough about the health of the general public and wants them to spend big during the Christmas & New Years period.

We've seen it before, LGA's & States going into lockdown as a result of far, far fewer cases, yet here we are. Off you go, mask up, wash your hands & climb into each other's pockets.

[1AZRAEL1]

Always used to talk about it at work. We have thousands of workers that can come into contact with each other every day. And without knowing you're contagious for at least a few days, could pass it on to alot of workers. And we were lucky it didn't rip through. Now this contagious strain, well now we're starting to see internal comms with crew with positive tests and where they were. I think we've run out of luck and we're gonna start having staff shortages when people have to start isolating

[DELTAprime]

I quickly went to KFC after work. That's the third restaurant I've been in since Queensland's "strict" laws preventing people that are not double vaxxed or wearing a mask from ordering. Nobody seems to care about the law. The only thing I've seen is the young girl serving at KFC asked a guy without a mask to stand behind the screen. That's it, I've seen no other effect of the new law at all.

[Autocon]

Liberals dont want more lockdowns coz then it means more lockdown payments. Always wealth over health

Think we are up to 7 cases now. Surprised theres not more

[1AZRAEL1]

Yep. Wealth over health. Been the problem this whole time. But then again, alot of tinfoil hat wearers have outed themselves too

[G1Optimal]

So far it looks like omicron only infects nose throat and windpipe

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/new-studies-reveal-why-omicron-variant-is-less-severe/news-story/6f9b7a17359ecc62775b19da975f2f36

[Tha_Phantom]

Some very promising news about omicron from our own deputy chief medical officer. This is consistent with what I've been reading about it elsewhere, including South Africa.
My biggest concern at this point is that it may mutate into a more harmful variant.
https://i.ibb.co/qr9WXJ8/interesting2.png (https://ibb.co/FDJ0NH1)

[griffin]

The federal and most state governments here seem to have given up with the whole testing system... trying to have people NOT get tested because they didn't ramp up availability and access during the surge.
No one would have predicted that Omicron would be so much more contagious, but with the states and country opening up at the end of last year, it was known that case numbers would go up here, but where was the ramping up of available testing sites and services?
Being caught with their pants down and unprepared, the authorities (led by the morrison government who backed themselves into a corner by pronouncing their intention to take a step back from the virus so that they aren't interfering with the freedoms of the people) have been constantly re-defining contact definitions and testing requirements to limit the numbers of people who can get PCR tests.
I can understand why they are changing the definitions and testing requirements, as it stops whole businesses and industries shutting down for up to two weeks just because of one infected person, but there are two major problems with the recent testing changes...
- 1) as more people are being encouraged to just use the home Rapid Tests, we won't have reliable case numbers from official sources, because people won't be required to report a positive result (unless they are wanting government assistance, and then have to get a PCR test).
- 2) the primary purpose of testing is to help find the infected people who don't have symptoms (who were in close proximity to someone who was infected), so that they are forced to isolate and not infect others without knowing it... but now if people are only being allowed to get tested if they have symptoms, it is only going to identify infected people who already should be isolating because they have symptoms and want a confirmation of it being covid.
Huge numbers may look bad (and Republican politicians in America are still trying to limit testing just to make their state's case numbers look better), but hiding the numbers don't prevent the infection from spreading... it just lets health services (and government agencies) know how bad the infection is in certain areas, to better prepare for it, and ramp up services where they are needed.

And media still isn't focusing on the proportions in ICU and deaths that are unvaccinated, so anti-vaxxers are having a field day with this explosion of case numbers with their claims that vaccines don't work (especially Palmer's United Party, with billboards all over the place stating that vaccines don't work). The vaccine isn't an impenetrable forcefield like on star trek, it is there to improve your chances when (not if) you catch it. With Delta and Omicron only having 3-4 days incubation until symptoms start showing, if your immune system takes more than that time to start generating anti-bodies, you probably won't survive... so having the anti-bodies in your system from day 1 from a vaccine, gives you a 2-3 day head-start with generating more anti-bodies when you need them.

[Golden Phoenix]

as more people are being encouraged to just use the home Rapid Tests, we won't have reliable case numbers from official sources, because people won't be required to report a positive result (unless they are wanting government assistance, and then have to get a PCR test).

In VIC they are making it mandatory to report a RAT positive result (through either a phone line or online portal of some sort), and said they will add them into the daily numbers. They said people who get a positive RAT result will have the same assistance as if they got a positive PCR result, so they don't have to then go and get a PCR test.

It's not 100% perfect, but it's something at least.

[DELTAprime]

In VIC they are making it mandatory to report a RAT positive result (through either a phone line or online portal of some sort), and said they will add them into the daily numbers. They said people who get a positive RAT result will have the same assistance as if they got a positive PCR result, so they don't have to then go and get a PCR test.

It's not 100% perfect, but it's something at least.

Too bad those RAT kits are so damn expensive in Australia.

[1AZRAEL1]

Unfortunately being charged like a raging bull for these tests means alot of people are just gonna say "screw it, I'll just keep working" and then spread it around. Scotty from marketing saying he doesn't want to undercut businesses and pharmacies is nothing but a cop-out

[christalcase]

Scotty from marketing saying he doesn't want to undercut businesses and pharmacies is nothing but a cop-out

I don't want to get into it too much other than I am disappointed with how State and Fed govt were so unprepared for this surge, after all the sacrifices we had made and all the warning signs that they had. However, I cannot believe Scott Morrison said that he doesn't want to stop business from ****ing the consumers so that they can still make record profits (Harvey Norman conveniently had stock of these tests to sell, as did other stores that you don't associate with medical supplies). I reckon he's just trying to cover himself for not buying enough of these in the first place but the least he could do is make a statement that makes it *seem* like he has the country's health in mind, rather than just economy economy economy (ignoring the fact that you need a healthy population to have a good economy as we seeing now with businesses forced to temporarily shut due to staff shortages).

[1AZRAEL1]

Ruby Princess makes headlines again, this time in San Francisco...

[Tha_Phantom]

Got covid close to two weeks ago. Yes, I am double-vaxxed.
Had a cold like condition for three days - runny nose, cough, small degree of weakness. The next few days it was mild with the occasional bad cough.
Didn't experience any breathing issues or loss of taste. Barely even had a fever most of the time. I've certainly felt sicker than this in my life (your experience may vary, this is just mine).
10 days on I can say I feel back to normal.

Worth noting that even 2 days into my peak symptoms I was still testing negative on home RATs.
On the 4th day (just after peak) I finally tested positive. So do be careful trusting RATs.

[G1Optimal]

Glad you got over it ok

[1AZRAEL1]

2 years into a pandemic, and people still can't figure out how to wear a mask correctly... makes me wonder how they tie their shoes...

[G1Optimal]

Probably with a bow tie lol

[DELTAprime]

2 years into a pandemic, and people still can't figure out how to wear a mask correctly... makes me wonder how they tie their shoes...

Yesterday at work I had a customer take off her mask for Apple Face ID, which is pretty normal. But she absent-mindedly didn't put her mask right back on. A couple of minutes later when she realised she was profusely apologizing. I wish everyone was that concerned about wearing masks and wearing them correctly.

[Sinnertwin]

2 years into a pandemic, and people still can't figure out how to wear a mask correctly... makes me wonder how they tie their shoes...

Is this the just the mask bit over the nose thing I've seen around or people that don't know how to use a pen kind of thing?

[1AZRAEL1]

It's easy to forget sometimes to replace the mask. Some people do care. But wearing it under your chin to read your phone is just mind boggling. And the concept of having to wear it on public transport and waiting areas like platforms, is lost on most people. Doesn't matter, in a month's time let it rip

[Handsprime]

So after the weekend I tested myself and found out I have COVID. I don't know where I got it, but other people I have talked to have mentioned they got it.
Been coughing, having a runny nose and experience fatigue. It's not good, but at least I'm vaxxed so I know I should be out and about by next week, otherwise I might need to see a doctor.

[GoktimusPrime]

Got a positive COVID test result on Saturday arvo. I was asymptomatic, but now the symptoms have kicked in; was coughing yesterday, and today I've been fatigued and had a runny nose. I'm tripled vaxxed and so far it's like having a cold. I'm isolated in the master bedroom to keep myself away from my family; grabbed some TF toys in on the way, but unlike having free access to my TF room where I can grab any toy as my play narrative demands, I'm just stuck with the ones I've taken. Reminds me of when I started collected TFs in the mid 80s; when I didn't have a toy but wanted that character in my play, I'd have to make up some excuse for their absence. :p
e.g. until September of 1985, Huffer was the leader of my Autobots. I don't remember what excuse I used, but Optimus Prime was always elsewhere until then
And "Shackwave" was always leader of my Decepticons since I didn't have Megatron as a kid.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

e.g. until September of 1985, Huffer was the leader of my Autobots. I don't remember what excuse I used, but Optimus Prime was always elsewhere until then
And "Shackwave" was always leader of my Decepticons since I didn't have Megatron as a kid.
I bet Huffer was because he was a fellow Truck bot. I had Optimus as a kid (it was the first thing I actually saved up for), but I never had Megatron, Starsceam or another "Leader" type character for my Deceptions, so I recruited Needlenose to be the leader. He was the closest large Jet toy I had to a Starscream. Oddly I did have SOundwave and I think he would've been a fairly good Decepticon leader, I still just had him as a support guy of Needlenose. (I really love Needlenose even now!)

Damn that Sucks. I got my triple shot on Saturday. In Japan they advocate mixing the shots, and I hear it works fine elsewhere s well. Add to that Pfizer seems to be the favoured shot around here, all the seniors (there's A LOT of them) have nabbed all the appointments. I ended up getting a different one this time, Moderna. The first two I had no problem with, but the moderna one, well, aching body all over, headache, felt tired and had a fever. Luckily it only lasted half the following day, but it certainly wasn't pleasant.
Annoyingly in Japan, getting the vaccine shots is full of bureaucracy. You can't get an appointment without a ticket. Once you have a ticket you have to go online and book. If you dont want to go online, then you have to look at certain places (local clinics, but from a main website) to see if they have spots available. Many of the smaller local places will have a message saying they don't (can't) accept bookings through the website so you have to call them. When you call the they are so busy with those phone calls, you can't get through or they just don't answer any more. Going through a mass vacc place is a total crap shoot as to whether or not you get lucky with a booking.
The entire experience is terribly frustrating. I got lucky in that the timing was right. Bagged my ticket, sister in law had a connection through Rakuten (of all places) that set up a place open for three days, I navigated through the horrible website and bagged a booking.

The covid experience has revealed some serious flaws in Japan's "wonderful" health care system. IN that so many places are privately run, coordinating for a pandemic type situation is frustrating for almost everybody. The govt. the medical system itself and the public.

Oh and now the only "protocol" in place against covid is wear a mask and sanitise your hands.

Whew, thats all for now. I'll probably rant about other issues later. Like why are GPs so hard to find here? How am I supposed to know whether my ache is a bone ache or a muscle ache? Why do I have to go and wait for 3 hours to see a doctor? Are Japanese people allergic to appointments? They're always banging on about being punctual so they shouldn't be.

More ranting slowly fades away

[SharkyMcShark]

Got a positive COVID test result on Saturday arvo. I was asymptomatic, but now the symptoms have kicked in; was coughing yesterday, and today I've been fatigued and had a runny nose. I'm tripled vaxxed and so far it's like having a cold. I'm isolated in the master bedroom to keep myself away from my family; grabbed some TF toys in on the way, but unlike having free access to my TF room where I can grab any toy as my play narrative demands, I'm just stuck with the ones I've taken. Reminds me of when I started collected TFs in the mid 80s; when I didn't have a toy but wanted that character in my play, I'd have to make up some excuse for their absence. :p
e.g. until September of 1985, Huffer was the leader of my Autobots. I don't remember what excuse I used, but Optimus Prime was always elsewhere until then
And "Shackwave" was always leader of my Decepticons since I didn't have Megatron as a kid.

When I was a small child my G2 Hooligan stood in for both Starscream and GoBots Leader-1 as needs be.

[griffin]

One of Network 7's channels is having a back-to-back session of virus movies tonight - Contagion and Outbreak.
Way to go, cashing in on a current negative theme.

[Tha_Phantom]

The results of an independent review into Australia's handling of the covid-19 pandemic:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/fractured-pandemic-response-failed-the-most-vulnerable-independent-report-finds-20221018-p5bqso.html

I am surprised to see lockdowns given such disdain here. Intuitively, they seemed like the right move, but according to the panel it should only ever have been an initial response and not something we kept relying on.

[griffin]

Reviews are going to be flawed if they are prioritising the wrong things as being most important. Saving lives should be the most important factor, and if there were economical issues that impacted on the citizens of a particular country, it is not the fault of the current government, but the fault of decades of previous governments for prioritising resources to just 4 largest capital cities to create a petrie-dish of concentrated virus transmission, and a more significant hit to the economy when just one of those 4 cities has to lockdown to save lives. Instead of having over 5 million people all condensed into one location, driving up the cost of housing and the cost of living, there should have been a long-term period of developing infrastructure and business incentives to five other cities in the state, so that living there is more affordable, and shutting down one or two cities because of a virus (or natural disaster) doesn't impact on the rest of the country and economy (and it is a lot cheaper to fund through welfare payments).
People got upset over the lockdowns, but they were stuck having to live in cities that shouldn't be this big, because of crises like this and other natural disasters. It's like the expression - don't put all of your eggs in one basket... and this is why.

I think Australia was one of the few countries that put aside politics long enough to do the right thing... to stall long enough until a vaccine was available and covering 90% of the population so that the virus didn't crash our hospitals, businesses and welfare systems. And if the review was focussing more on the economy, lockdowns helped protect businesses by limiting the number of people infected before there was a vaccine, which would have shut down businesses due to lack of available staff (a lot worse than what we saw when the variants hit at the end of last year).

[Autocon]

The results of an independent review into Australia's handling of the covid-19 pandemic:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/fractured-pandemic-response-failed-the-most-vulnerable-independent-report-finds-20221018-p5bqso.html

I am surprised to see lockdowns given such disdain here. Intuitively, they seemed like the right move, but according to the panel it should only ever have been an initial response and not something we kept relying on.

There were no medical people on the board.

[mikeyc7m]

Yeah seems like petty hindsight handwringing when one considers the number of people dead overseas. If the feds had bothered to secure vaccines sooner we would not have needed so many lockdowns.

The big benefit of a lockdown is the economy can bounce right back when it's over - if there was no lockdown all the sick/dead would have stalled the economy anyway, and for a long time after the emergency is over too.

[Tha_Phantom]

There were no medical people on the board.

What are "health experts" then? Genuine question.

[Tha_Phantom]

If the feds had bothered to secure vaccines sooner we would not have needed so many lockdowns.

The report said this.

“Many lockdowns were avoidable,” the report found. “Some were the result of failures in our quarantine systems, our contact tracing systems, a sluggish vaccine rollout and shortcomings in our communication with key parts of our community.

[GoktimusPrime]

"Health expert" sounds like a broader term than "medical expert." All medical experts are also health experts, but not all health experts are medical experts. Dietitians, personal trainers, Chinese herbalists, counsellors, physiologists are all health experts but not medical experts. It would be helpful if the article told us who these health experts were. Governments were acting on the advice of medical experts like Dr. Kerry Chant etc.

This article is also loaded with emotively biased language... so much for professional journalistic neutrality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalistic_objectivity). :p I wouldn't even write a toy review with this level of bias, and quite frankly, if a student ever tried to use this kind of language in a persuasive writing text, I would have to give them a pretty low score (as they're trying to use emotional bias rather than objective evidence or logic to persuade the audience). :D

[Autocon]

They have a name. Virus pathogen people. Only heard the word on the news when it was in the media