COVID-19 updates comments and concerns

[griffin]

So many events are now being cancelled, here and overseas... and I feel really bad for those who have their event cancelled at the last minute, particularly if they have already spent a lot of money to get to it, or can't get refunds if they aren't yet there.

It's such a difficult decision, closing down social events, businesses, recreational places and schools/universities for up to several weeks, as no one wants to be the politician or CEO who was in charge during a virus cluster, so are taking early preventative measures... but it's not going to kill of the virus, as I think it's only just going to delay the inevitable.
This is a flu-like virus, so it isn't going to ever go away, unless you have every human on the planet avoid contact with every other human for about 3-4 weeks. It will be like measles - even if there is a vaccine developed (which is at least 6 months away), not everyone will get the vaccine, so the virus will continue to exist... until most people catch it or get vaccinated.

Basically what I'm saying, is that I think closing down everything now while the infection numbers are quite low, might look to be the right thing to do if this was a short-lived, low contamination virus like SARS, but COVID-19 is a lot more contagious, and it sounds like it is very contagious for the 2-3 days before you have any symptoms or a fever (for those temperature scanning devices). As such, I think the people making the decision to close down everything now, are going to have a much tougher decision in a few weeks time to not be the first to re-open when the virus is still popping up in new cities and countries around the world. This is because it's spread now will be a lot slower, but it won't kill it off globally, so infection rates will go back up when people make the difficult decision to re-open things, just to keep the country going.
I mean, how long can schools, businesses, themeparks, sporting events, etc, stay closed for? And how long can countries have travel bans in place for? This virus isn't going to disappear off the planet in the next 2 weeks... or even 2 months... because it is still only in a very small number of places (even in Australia it hasn't hit plague proportions yet), so how are they going to decide when to re-open things if the virus still exists? Even if it suddenly drops down to being just a few cases in one country and everything is opened back up again, we will be back at this point two months later, because that's what it was like just two months ago when the first cases appeared outside of Wuhan. All this is just after 2-3 months of virus spreading... how is it going to disappear in just a few weeks for these events, schools and businesses to say it is "safe to re-open"... but how many can survive more than a few weeks being closed? (and more importantly, how many countries will see total collapse of their society if most of their economy is shut down for a month or two... or more - considering our economy is said to be one of the best of the developed world despite no budget surplus or trade surplus for most of the last 20 years, how are countries with worse credit ratings going to afford this)

Maybe slowing down it's spread could even be a bad thing for society and the economy, as it won't stop spreading until most people have caught it (to have the anti-bodies in their system or they died from it), or a vaccine is created (which will also take several months to develop and administer)... all of which I can't see happening until at least this time next year. Can we as a society survive with most things being closed for several months, knowing that if they re-open while the virus still exists somewhere in the world, no matter how much it disappears within our country, the contamination rates will just go back up again.

And what if it behaves like the flu virus and mutates from time to time, requiring constant vaccines every year and never being eradicated. We would then just have to live as a society with new flu-like viruses that get spread around like the flu, but have a higher mortality rate (quite a few people die of the flu each year too, but the percentage isn't as high as the corona virus).

[Paulbot]

Have a read of this case for the isolation approach:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

[Ralph Wiggum]

Plus there's the approach of Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan:

https://time.com/5802293/coronavirus-covid19-singapore-hong-kong-taiwan/

A strong isolation/quarantine policy is about keeping the virus growth significantly contained so that medical services can cope, essential services continuing to function and general day-to-day life to continue. All of this prevents a culture of fear and panic within the general population, and avoids panic buying/hoarding of goods. I dare say most Western countries, including Australia, have a lot to learn and reflect from Covid19 when things settle down. Our "she'll be right" attitude cost us valuable time we didn't have in containing the virus. Our aversion to short term pain is going to cost us in the long run.

[griffin]

Watching Planet America and The Late Show last night, they both talked about how these shut down and travel ban measures are not for the containment or elimination of the virus, but is to mitigate (slow down) its spread because no country has the hospital resources to cope with even the best estimates of infection. Most western countries only have intensive care resources to cover 0.1 to 0.5 % of the population and this virus will give about 20% of infected people serious to fatal symptoms (80% will experience little more than cold symptoms). And most of those beds/resources are always in use from other medical conditions which means less available for a plague. So even if agencies know they can't stop the spread of the virus, they know that we need to spread out the infection rate over a longer period of time so that our hospitals can keep up. Already in Italy, hospitals are forced to triage - which is to decide who is being treated because they don't have enough resources and beds to treat everyone. Not to mention all of the non-virus issues needing intensive care that may not survive if they are full of virus patients.

Its just better to lie to the general public to prevent a panic from the over paranoid or less educated (or misinformed through social media).

Just stay safe everyone and be vigilant with limited contact with others and wash hands often.

[Trent]

Its just better to lie to the general public to prevent a panic from the over paranoid or less educated (or misinformed through social media).

Ok Trump.

[1AZRAEL1]

The economy is going to take a hit, so are people who's livelihoods depend on entertainment (bands, promoters, etc) because I'm seeing alot of bands having to cancel their tours atm, and that's where they make bulk of their money.

We're in uncharted waters in our generation for a plague of these proportions.

[SMHFConvoy]

I just called a potential employer about a job and they were unsure that the position is being advertised at the moment with a downturn in trade they experienced this weekend.

[gamblor916]

The Johns Hopkins University Tracker (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6) gives a bit of scale to this thing. Make of that what you will.

[GoktimusPrime]

How the Chinese city of Nanjing, with a population of over 8.3 million people, has managed to reduce their number of COVID-19 cases down to zero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfsdJGj3-jM

[DELTAprime]

Am I the only person not panicking over this stupid virus? I have family members that seem to think the world is ending.

[Paulbot]

Maybe. I’m worried and I have a secure job I can do for home. Feel bad about people who are going to lose jobs, shut businesses and have financial issues once white-collar businesses go home. Let alone the risk to the elderly and those with health issues who the virus is fatal for. I’ve not been able to buy toilet paper for two weeks. There’s plenty to be worried about.

[griffin]

Am I the only person not panicking over this stupid virus? I have family members that seem to think the world is ending.

You're not the only one. But it is difficult when every media organisation is trying to outdo each other to cover every aspect of the virus, and headlines are all doom and gloom... when we need them to be focussing on good news stories during times like these. They can still have updates on the virus, but not be the majority of the news bulletin and the morning breakfast shows. How are people who are even a little bit worried, let alone the paranoid or hypochondriacs, supposed to go about with their day, looking after kids, earning a living, driving safely, etc.

The excessive over-buying of some items also seems unnecessary, but people are getting these end of the world messages from the people in charge, which just encourages them to stock up on things that they don't really need a huge supply of.
It is possible that there will be some disruption of certain products as factories and transport gets affected by people who start self-isolating over the next few weeks, but people will still continue to work for as long as they can, because they need the money.... and, as infected people recover, they'll be wanting to get back to work straight away, because they also need the money.

With a vaccine not possible before the end of the year, we have at least 9 months of social disruption, limitations, and for many people, isolation... if people want to try to hold out for the vaccine next year, and that's going to impact on the emotional welfare of people, as well as the living standards, as money starts running out and they have to go on welfare. These measures are necessary to minimise the spread for hospitals to keep up with a slower infection rate, and protect the most vulnerable who need the vaccine to survive... it's just going to be a long 9 months for the majority of people who won't end up being more sick than when having a regular cold or flu.

I was planning to go job hunting after I came back from the Melbourne Toyfair, but now it is too risky, as we could see up to a million people lose their job by the end of the year from this.
I know that a lot of people (mostly elderly) can't risk this as an option, but I'd rather catch it now, have a few days at home with the flu (since I should be young enough to not have anything worse than flu symptoms), and then get back to living without the worry of catching it, or being forced to avoid doing ordinary activities, like go to work.

My worksite bosses are still trying to figure out what best to do, to keep the warehouse operating, as it just takes one positive test result to shut down schools, sporting events, TV studios and various other businesses that can close for at least a couple of weeks. As such, the bosses don't seem to be taking it seriously, spreading wrong information about how the virus can be transmitted, and what can be done to prevent the spread (they are having us use anti-bacterial spray instead of bleach or alcohol based solutions as per the government websites... and claiming that having just 30 minutes gap between shifts would be enough time for the virus to die off on surfaces).

[DELTAprime]

they are having us use anti-bacterial spray instead of bleach or alcohol based solutions as per the government websites...

That is actually the most worrying thing for me about this whole situation. We know rather nasty bugs can develop from the "kills 99% of germs" disinfectants.

I'm not worried about money as Woolworths has stated they will pay casual workers if they can't work. I'm not worried about getting sick as I should have very minor symptoms. I'm not worried about the retail supply chain as I've experienced that craziness many times before because of cyclones.

I'm just taking this as I would any other natural disaster.

[1AZRAEL1]

I'm stuck in public transport, so I kinda have to go to work. I've been sick for about a week now anyway, and pretty much over it now. Back to work tomorrow. I'm more worried about going out to buy essentials when the food I have at home runs out. All these dickheads buying up everything leaving nothing for others. Just have to see what's available by time I go out to buy stuff on Friday.

[griffin]

Hmmm... I only wanted to share some quick thoughts, but five hours later, I seem to have ended up with an essay. Sitting on a forklift all day doing menial work, leaves me with a lot of time for my mind to wander and think of things.
I also know that this is weighing on the minds of just about everyone, having questions and concerns that they just want to talk to others about, somewhere.
As such, I might split these posts off into a new topic for people to get updates and to be able to unload their anxieties among friends, who are here to support each other, not judge or mock.

As for the essay you are about to scroll past, sorry...


With a vaccine not possible before the end of the year, we have at least 9 months of social disruption, limitations, and for many people, isolation... if people want to try to hold out for the vaccine next year, and that's going to impact on the emotional welfare of people, as well as the living standards, as money starts running out and they have to go on welfare. These measures are necessary to minimise the spread for hospitals to keep up with a slower infection rate, and protect the most vulnerable who need the vaccine to survive... it's just going to be a long 9 months for the majority of people who won't end up being more sick than when having a regular cold or flu.


I see that the Prime Minister on the weekend was now admitting that these social shutdown measures will be expected for 6 months or more, instead of just implying that it would just be a couple of weeks of disruption, or by the self-isolation by a small number of people. Either he was being ignorant of how a biological virus works, or he didn't want to make this public until society was already in a transition to shutting down and limiting contact between others. Because if we had been told publicly how long this would affect our lives, there would be mass panic and social collapse. Just look at the grocery stores... that level of selfish behaviour would have been reflected in all areas of society, particularly criminal acts (theft and violence).

We've been told for over a month that a vaccine would not be available to the public until early next year, about 9-12 months away, as clinical trials take time, and mass-production of the vaccine in the order of mega-litres, isn't a matter of just mixing together a handful of chemicals and putting it in a syringe. So any measures taken now on society (closing of businesses, schools and staying at home), will be in place until the end of the year... and I don't think too many people realise it will be long, or be able to cope with it. Not to mention, people out of work for the next 9 months will effectively be long-term unemployed, and many will find it harder to get back into the workforce next year, after all that time stuck at home watching TV and other recreational things at home.
And it is not just the small businesses that are being affected (most of which will not be around next year when we are allowed to go back to work and be out in public), as many big businesses are affected as well, because when one person is infected, the whole site or shift has to shut down for at least 14 days. I currently work in a furniture warehouse, and for some reason there is still a significant demand for furniture, so I am still working... for now. But any day now I am expecting it to be closed up, either because someone has tested positive to the virus, or, because the orders have dried up due to so many people now using every spare dollar on bills and necessities and that the latest round of closures and social distancing has stopped people from going into the stores (we have an online store, but furniture is like a car... most people don't buy it before they try it first). Besides, some customers are cancelling their deliveries, in fear of catching something from the delivery guys. (we already lost a couple of delivery guys who delivered to a house that was supposed to be under quarantine, and the transport company told them not to come back to work for 2 weeks, just in case).

As much as I hate to say it, I would have to recommend that people need to stock up a little with their non-perishable food, to have at least a month or two on hand. NOT to strip the store shelves, like people buying up a year's supply of toilet paper... but to go to the supermarket every couple of days and buy a couple of extra items that you can freeze or store, because like I mentioned above about businesses having to close down if one person tests positive, the major grocery stores only have one warehouse in most capital cities - even if they just shut down one shift for 14 days, that's a lot of volume not being sent to stores (they can't keep up demand as it is, so imagine how worse the stores will be if one third of a warehouse stops operating for two weeks, or the entire warehouse has to shut down if their administration office is compromised and they can't even process orders). I've been going to several different Coles and Woolies stores over the last week or so, every day or two, just so I can grab just one or two long-term food items, because none of the stores have been able to keep their shelves stocked, despite the claims of now being able to get more deliveries in and limiting purchase quantities. In the last ten days, the following items were either found at just one store, or none at all - rice, sugar, salt, toilet paper, minced meat, long life milk, rolled oats, and generic brand noodles. With this virus being around for at least 9 months until a vaccine is available (at best), politicians would be foolish to be able to guarantee that the grocery store supply chain (from farms, to wholesalers, to grocery warehouses, to transport, to supermarkets) won't be severed for weeks at a time, if just one person at a worksite or shift is infected. As of yesterday the current infection rate was still only at about 0.02% of the population, which means only one out of every 5000 people is known to be infected... but that rate will hit 0.1% to 1% within a few weeks, and that effectively means that any worksite that has over 100 people (like a grocery warehouse), statistically, one of those people will be infected within the next two weeks, shutting down one of three shifts or the entire site for two weeks. Then over the next 9 months as more people get the infection, the site shuts down again, dozens of times until there is a vaccine to keep the place open.
It might seem like fear-mongering , but that's a realistic assessment of this virus, which our political leaders either don't want to accept, or don't want to tell us in order to prevent mass chaos in society or the stripping of the stores of all food items. Until there is a vaccine (earliest being next year), this virus won't disappear, without an extreme measure of a 24 hour curfew, forcing EVERYONE to stay in their home for at least 2-3 weeks (if you have a home), so that no one is able to catch the virus... and just have food rations delivered to any house that runs out, by a small number of people who are constantly sterilised, or have already had the virus (if it can't be caught again or transmitted to others). Then once the virus has died out after that 3 week curfew, life can go back to normal, but all international travel would remain suspended until the vaccine is ready next year (that would also mean exports and imports are stopped, as people have to fly the planes and drive the boats).

I just feel so bad for all of those people who have already lost their job, and the millions who will lose theirs in the next 9-12 months... having to sit on welfare, with little to do, and little money spare to spend or save.
I'm expecting to be one of those people within the next few weeks, if not, by the end of this week at the way everything is so rapidly being shut down like in foreign hot-spots.

I just think, to help keep as many people employed as possible while trying to mitigate the spread of the virus, instead of shutting everything down completely and have sudden massive unemployment (which will mean less money being spent in the economy and less jobs around when the virus is over), we should have been adapting our social lives and businesses to be able to do as much as possible without contact with the customers, or between the customers... but people just weren't taking those early measures seriously because our political leaders didn't want to create a sudden panic by telling the truth of what this virus would be doing, and how long it would be around for. (China's claim of having no more infected people recently because of their lockdown measures is not easy to believe, since they concealed the existence and extent of the virus at the beginning of the year, from their own people and from the rest of the world)
I've heard from someone who was just in Taiwan last week (came back just a day before the borders were closed), that they have virtually no cases because they had adopted anti-viral measures after SARS about 15 years ago, and made it a cultural behaviour that has persisted to this day.

The problem is these Western Capitalist countries have their policies dictated by Corporations with short-term profit interests, over long term social interests. We had our wake-up calls with recent global viruses, but we did nothing to protect ourselves from the next one. And to be honest, this current virus could have been a lot worse, because it isn't airborne, and the mortality rate is less than 5% because of the slower rate of infection and current medical technology. And if countries had invested more into their public hospitals over the years since the last viruses, the mortality rate percentage would have been equal or less than the flu. If this virus had been airborne, or targeted the immune system (like HIV) or brain (like malaria parasite), the mortality rate would be so much higher because the hospitals can only deal with about 5-10% of the population at any time.

At least we don't live in America, with a president who said two weeks ago that the virus was just another hoax against him which meant 35% of the country who believes everything he says didn't take any precautions... and as recently as last week was still saying that the virus would be gone in a couple of weeks because they only had a handful of infected people in the country. As such, they don't have the resources to help the infected or combat the spread, because the federal government and a third of the people didn't think there was a problem until 5-6 days ago. Now several cities in America have virus hot-spots, and hospitals can't meet demand. Australia had more infections first because of our closer ties to China (tourists and students), but the USA are out-pacing us on the infection rates per capita, and that's with a short-supply of tests, meaning that the amount of infected people in America is probably 10 times as many as officially known.

The sad thing is, when we come out of this next year, our major parties won't learn... they won't prepare for the next virus... they won't put us before their bank balances. None of our politicians will be at centerlink, signing up for newstart payments, so they won't feel the pain we feel... or the fear of being out of work for months, and not being able to afford the non-essential spending for the foreseeable future.
I certainly can't see Hasbro producing Unicron for next year, as most people aren't going to be employed early next year when it comes out... and they will probably have to cut back on producing future product this year, as stores (and online stores) aren't going to be selling as many toys, and many of us aren't going to be able to afford them until early next year... especially the expensive collector items like Japanese Masterpiece toys. EB Games stores are likely to shut down soon, if not already, which will leave a lot of pre-orders in limbo... and prevent the huge line up of exclusives they had on their roster for this year (most of the Generations Selects toys and JP Masterpiece).

[dirge]

EB Games stores are likely to shut down soon, if not already, which will leave a lot of pre-orders in limbo... and prevent the huge line up of exclusives they had on their roster for this year (most of the Generations Selects toys and JP Masterpiece).

Sorry to bring this back on topic... but I will certainly be disappointed if Hubcap doesn't see the light of day.

[Tha_Phantom]

Am I the only person not panicking over this stupid virus?

Sadly, you're not.

[griffin]

I just remembered something else - I also feel sorry for the majority of school and uni students who are likely to have to repeat the grade next year, as the schools won't reopen this year once they close... because no one is going to be brave enough to re-open the schools before the vaccine is ready.
A lot of schools and Unis may have set up online learning, but a lot of kids who don't have computers, or probably won't be able to afford monthly internet fees, won't be able to keep up with those who can do their schooling from home... and that's IF those kids have the self-discipline to commit to school studies for several hours a day at home without the risk of detention or some other school penalty, particularly if they are in the higher grades and their parent(s) still work, leaving them home all day on their own.

[DELTAprime]

I actually would be happy to see Hasbro pause or at least slow down their upcoming releases. The economy globally is in the toilet. There are more important things than Transformers.

[popculturepooka]

I actually would be happy to see Hasbro pause or at least slow down their upcoming releases. The economy globally is in the toilet. There are more important things than Transformers.

The comics industry has started slowing down. Expect others to follow suit.

[Paulbot]

I actually would be happy to see Hasbro pause or at least slow down their upcoming releases. The economy globally is in the toilet. There are more important things than Transformers.

Agree. I’m now working from home but how can I complain when so many others can’t work at all. I would like to get the Seacons from EbGames this week but getting some bread and meat is much more a priority.

[hYpNoS]

Am I the only person not panicking over this stupid virus? I have family members that seem to think the world is ending.

*RANT*

I was in the same camp until my workplace had a scare because someone who claimed to have it gave cash to a co-worker, no mask because "I wanted to feel brave", they're in isolation now.

I'm just shy a hazmat suit now, while I'm not screaming about the end of the world or hoarding up (being an idiot over-buyer ended up helping in the long run before this happened) I've become all too aware of the situation at hand and the sheer...stupidity people have.

I work in an "essential service", people call me a ray of sunshine amongest all of this but really I just want all of this to end, things will get better stock wise, but if we pull up the restrictions too early (both for supermarkets and travel restrictions) I can see this screwing us over, will we end up like italy, don't think so, but our laid back attitude needs a slight adjustment.

Just be safe, don't get careless (KEEP YOUR KIDS INSIDE PEOPLE unless 100% necessary supermarkets are the last place they should be in) and don't panic buy (pensioners and those who live day by day are suffering the most, big families are only suffering because little timmy wants snacks and won't stop making toilet paper houses because karen doesn't want to tell them responsibilities aren't just an adult thing, kids with disabilities are exempt because I know that pain all too well), sorry for the rant, friend's have family up in Italy, regulars are of italian decent, witnessing sheer stupidity at hand and my own desire to keep living...its been rough plus I got family who work in emergency services telling me stuff (mostly stupidity but in times like these the best and worst in humanity will show).

Good luck to all those in "essential services", we're gonna need it, just don't "accept" you might catch it like I initially did and brush this off




EB Games stores are likely to shut down soon, if not already, which will leave a lot of pre-orders in limbo... and prevent the huge line up of exclusives they had on their roster for this year (most of the Generations Selects toys and JP Masterpiece).

Bad enough losing another retailer but MY UNICRON, KEEP MY DEPOSIT JUST GIVE ME MY PLASTIC CRACK D: in all seriousness have eb games australia addressed their connections with the US branch or is this most likely a result of the virus based guess?

[drifand]

Few things.

Is no longer a normal day, like any other day, there are posters still trying to give the crap speech about how this is no different than any previous virus etc... STOP. we are way past that.
Honestly we have passed the Panic stage, it is now dealing with crap. The faster we actually lockdown and contain and figure out who has virus actually will contain the issue than escalate. As Thanos said "I am inevitable" there isn't any good outcome.
There is absolutely no economics, people really should start thinking fixing by the source which is the virus before you can think about business. Schools should be shut, its obvious and shouldn't have to be TOLD at this stage. We are NOT Singapore, is different country and they have their own measures to properly maintain that level.

I am shocked my friends wife who is a nurse have no mask etc to protect themselves despite so much coverage we had before hand. I am truly disappointed.

[popculturepooka]

I am wondering, is keeping the sightings threads open really a smart thing right now?

It's encouraging people to go out and "hunt" when they should be staying home or only heading out for essentials. Definitely not toys.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I'd been wondering that myself. I guess the thing is, people are still going to have to go out to get groceries etc anyway, and unless/until KMart etc get shut down then they'll be there anyway.
I mean, it's quite possible TF shipments will be heavily reduced/held off on anyway, and it's really hard to see toy stores staying open throughout the whole, likely-months-long ordeal, so it might be mostly a moot point.

[SMHFConvoy]

Just wondering, should I leave TF's that I buy here in a brick and mortar shop in their packaging for a few days or is it okay to open them up? Only asking because it looks like convid-19 can live up to 72 hours on plastic.

[Paulbot]

Just wondering, should I leave TF's that I buy here in a brick and mortar shop in their packaging for a few days or is it okay to open them up? Only asking because it looks like convid-19 can live up to 72 hours on plastic.

It couldn't hurt to be extra-careful?

[Tha_Phantom]

Just wondering, should I leave TF's that I buy here in a brick and mortar shop in their packaging for a few days or is it okay to open them up? Only asking because it looks like convid-19 can live up to 72 hours on plastic.

I wouldn't stress to that degree. Just wash your hands after you've finished playing with them and don't touch your face. When you think about it, are toys from a brick and mortar store any riskier than groceries? There's equal opportunity for someone to have touched either of them and left traces of a disease there.

[SMHFConvoy]

I wouldn't stress to that degree. Just wash your hands after you've finished playing with them and don't touch your face. When you think about it, are toys from a brick and mortar store any riskier than groceries? There's equal opportunity for someone to have touched either of them and left traces of a disease there.

*reads comment and touches face*

Goddammit.

[Tha_Phantom]

*reads comment and touches face*

Goddammit.

Off to the hospital you go. :p

[kovert]

Just wondering, should I leave TF's that I buy here in a brick and mortar shop in their packaging for a few days or is it okay to open them up?

The outside surface of the packaging could possibly have traces on the virus on it from handling at the store. However, the virus does not survive on cardboard for more than 24 hours (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-03-20/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces/12074330). Maybe wipe down the clear plastic window with alcohol, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and do not touch the product for 24 hours. However, the toy inside the packaging shouldn't be affected as it has been boxed for months, going by the production codes (eg 93501).

[Autocon]

Everyone is accepting card only, no cash. Its stupid cause they handle the game case for example or the boxes of ceral at the checkout. Also they wear gloves but dont change them between customers.

[GoktimusPrime]

Okay, for those of us who are fortunate enough to be working from home, share with us a pic of your home work space. :)
Here's what my classroom looks like now.

https://i.ibb.co/mCM9YdP/temp.jpg

[SMHFConvoy]

The outside surface of the packaging could possibly have traces on the virus on it from handling at the store. However, the virus does not survive on cardboard for more than 24 hours (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-03-20/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces/12074330). Maybe wipe down the clear plastic window with alcohol, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and do not touch the product for 24 hours. However, the toy inside the packaging shouldn't be affected as it has been boxed for months, going by the production codes (eg 93501).

Thanks, already sprayed the boxes with an antiseptic spray but I can wipe the plastic windows down tomorrow.

[GoktimusPrime]

Guys... just wash your hands right after you open stuff. Even if you get coronavirus all over your hands, it still won't infect you until you touch your face so it can under through your nose, mouth or eyes. Just use soap and water because soap destroys viruses (and other pathogens).

<insert chemistry lesson about hydrophobic and hydrophilic molecules etc. here>

Soap is just as good as 60%+ based hand sanitisers (and way better than hand sanitisers with <60% alcohol content - those would be useless), and potentially better because some people don't wash their hands long or thoroughly enough when using hand sanitisers. The tingly feeling you get as the alcohol begins evaporating off your skin coupled with the scents that have been added in can lull people into a false sense of security and make them wash their hands improperly with sanitisers, whereas in reality you need to use hand sanitisers in the same way that you would use soap -- scrub thoroughly all over for at least 20 seconds.

The antiseptic wash that you'd be using does the same job as soap anyway; tears into the lipid membrane of the virus and rips apart its RNA or DNA (depending on the type of virus), thereby destroying it. Yeah. Soap actually gets into cells and viruses and rips them apart at the base genetic level. But again, you'd have to be spraying or scrubbing those boxes quite profusely to really have any effect (in which case the boxes are probably going to get soggy). You might as well just wash your hands. And it doesn't matter if you're using some fancy liquid soap or a cheap Homebrand block of bar soap -- they all do the same job. The important thing is to lather up your hands and just get into all the nooks and crannies around your hands, between fingers and under nails to remove those germs.

Coronaviruses, like many pathogens that affect humans, are transmitted by the respiratory system... because it's just a super easy way to infect humans. It requires to host to not do anything out of the ordinary other than breathe and touch their faces. It's not like say, Salmonella, which requires the host to ingest it. Or STIs which... well you know. This is why so many pathogens that humans are prone to have evolved to be transmitted via our respiratory system. Unlike transmission via the digestive or reproductive systems, infection by the respiratory system is super easy for bugs, barely an inconvenience. But yeah, the single best thing that people can do is just to wash your hands.

[shockNwave]

The economy is going to take a hit, so are people who's livelihoods depend on entertainment (bands, promoters, etc) because I'm seeing alot of bands having to cancel their tours atm, and that's where they make bulk of their money.

We're in uncharted waters in our generation for a plague of these proportions.

This comment especially hurts because classical musicians have benefactors such as politicians and CEOs while musicians that are highly creative and innovative have to scrounge and scavenge.
I say this because there's a casual who got layed off in recent weeks (at my work) who now can't make money giving guitar lessons on the side.

[DaptoDog]

Okay, for those of us who are fortunate enough to be working from home, share with us a pic of your home work space. :)
Here's what my classroom looks like now.

https://i.ibb.co/mCM9YdP/temp.jpg

You've got fresh air and natural light in there right?

[G1Optimal]

Okay, for those of us who are fortunate enough to be working from home, share with us a pic of your home work space. :)
Here's what my classroom looks like now.

https://i.ibb.co/mCM9YdP/temp.jpg
You have a awesome backdrop for your classes

[griffin]

I am wondering, is keeping the sightings threads open really a smart thing right now?

It's encouraging people to go out and "hunt" when they should be staying home or only heading out for essentials. Definitely not toys.

People should already be using their best judgement when out in public to avoid catching this virus (and other viruses), and sightings posted here are not forcing anyone to go out if they don't already intent on hunting down a particular figure. This way, going to one store for a guaranteed purchase (thanks to a sighting posted here) is much safer than visiting several stores hoping to find a particular figure.

Realistically, if we shut down the sightings section because it might be seen to be encouraging people to go out in public, it would have to be shut down for a minimum of 9 months, until there is a cure or vaccine to make it 100% safe to go out in public again (and as long as 18 months). It would also mean not posting a lot of news topics as well, as they would also be encouraging people to hunt down those toys as soon as they are released during the next year and a half.
As much as toys appear to be a non-priority item, they have a very useful property to the mental health of others, so I want to maintain these fansites as much as possible, so that no matter how bad things get, fans can still get away from it all for a while, and entertain themselves here.

People don't seem to realise that with a partial lockdown of society, that allows for the virus to continue to exist until a vaccine or cure is produced, any level of isolation they put themselves in right now, will have to be done for at least 9 months, and I don't think a lot of people can survive that without without doing something more than just watching TV or internet, or be able to survive with just the things you already have at home. Especially if you have kids, they are going to need new toys to keep them entertained over the next year at home.
People need to keep their minds and bodies stimulated during this lengthy period of self-isolation, and while the official infection rate is still only at 0.02% of the population, if they can safely go out and acquire additional recreational items to keep them occupied and distracted from the anxiety and worry of the virus, then the next 9-18 months will be a lot more survivable.
(even if the actual infection rate is ten times today's known amount of around 2000 cases in all of Australia, that's still one person out of every 500-1000 people in your daily life... and with most of those cases being from people returning to Australia and those they came into contact with, your odds of catching it with social distancing, limited touching of public objects and constant hand washing after touching anything before touching your face, is less than being killed in a car accident or being bitten by a shark)

As they said after September 11 - be alert, but not alarmed. Which means, keep yourself informed by the official sources (to be alert of what needs to be done), and not follow comments or myths by non-official sources (to be alarmed of what is not true). This is a serious virus for those who are vulnerable to it, but then, so are many other viruses that we experience here every year that kills hundreds of people, so we should always have been practising measures to prevent the spread of all viruses, not just for this one, and then let our standards slip later when this one is gone.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I'm sorry but the bottom line is that you should not be going out shopping for toys. Period. Even if it's only to a specific store, on one occasion. If multiple people did this, then the whole idea of social distancing goes out the door.

There's a questionable line if you're going to stop by Big W, Target, etc. at a shopping centre when you're already out grocery shopping. Personally I'm minimising the amount of time I'm out necessarily. Food and other essentials only. No window shopping.

Toys. Are. Not. Essential. Items. Especially for adult collectors.

Our medical and emergency services staff are putting themselves at risk so that our health system doesn't collapse. It's insanity to jeopardise this for the sake of toys. Buy online if you have to and avoid going out unless necessary.

[Tha_Phantom]

I'm sorry but the bottom line is that you should not be going out shopping for toys. Period. Even if it's only to a specific store, on one occasion. If multiple people did this, then the whole idea of social distancing goes out the door.

There's a questionable line if you're going to stop by Big W, Target, etc. at a shopping centre when you're already out grocery shopping. Personally I'm minimising the amount of time I'm out necessarily. Food and other essentials only. No window shopping.

Toys. Are. Not. Essential. Items. Especially for adult collectors.

Our medical and emergency services staff are putting themselves at risk so that our health system doesn't collapse. It's insanity to jeopardise this for the sake of toys. Buy online if you have to and avoid going out unless necessary.

^ This. So much.

[1AZRAEL1]

Supporting the economy is a moot point right now IMO. They're cutting back staff anyway. And with most of the country out of work, people aren't, or shouldn't be, spending money on unnecessary things like toys. A roof over their heads and food is what's important. We're not headed for a recession, it's gonna be a depression.

[GoktimusPrime]

You've got fresh air and natural light in there right?
Natural light and toys don't mix. ;) The fan is there to help air circulate. Also, I'm only in there during lessons - otherwise I'm on my desktop that's next to my back door for other work. :)


There's a questionable line if you're going to stop by Big W, Target, etc. at a shopping centre when you're already out grocery shopping. Personally I'm minimising the amount of time I'm out necessarily. Food and other essentials only. No window shopping.
I only do opportunistic window shopping for toys when I'm out buying essentials, and honestly, it feels safer in those stores than in supermarkets. Obviously supermarkets are going to have people in them buying essentials, but when I go to toy aisles and toy stores I'm literally the ONLY customer there. So yeah, social distancing still being completely observed. I'm also wearing a mask and I wash my hands frequently (I also shower and dump my clothes in the laundry straight after getting home). When shopping for essentials I'm going to be around a lot of people, even at 1.5m distance (but sometimes closer because you can't maintain that distance all the time, e.g. passing people in supermarket aisles etc.), but when briefly popping into toy aisles and shops, these places are completely deserted. And I'm only in there for a few seconds - take mental note of what toys are there to report it on the sightings thread then leave. It's not like in previous days where I might loiter and stare at toys through the packaging etc.

It helps that when I do my grocery shopping really early in the morning; even ordinarily there aren't too many people shopping for toys at 08:00~09:00. ;)
I'm also willing to aggressively defend my 1.5m personal space when I'm in public. I haven't needed to do it yet, but if anyone were to violate this space when it's avoidable, I am more than willing to use my booming teacher voice to strike fear into their soul.

P.S.: Maybe I should invest in some deliberately stinky perfume and wear it to keep others at bay. :p :p

[griffin]

Today's new federal restrictions include - no more than 2 people together in public that aren't from the same house, and we are only allowed to go shopping for necessary items now... which means we could get in trouble if we are caught buying any toys.
I think that would prompt non-grocery stores to close down now, as there wouldn't be enough "essential" items for them to make enough money to stay open.
I wonder if this will mean Post Offices will close up now as well, as they are privately owned franchise stores, so if they aren't doing enough business at the moment, they might follow Myer's example and shut down for a while.

WA is also looking to close their borders... not that there would be a lot of land traffic across the WA border, so with international travel shutting down, it will pretty much close down their airports completely.

With every person arriving into the country being quarantined for 14 days at a hotel, it should mean the focus can be shifted towards responding to and limiting "community spread" cases (ones spread between people who haven't been overseas).

[GoktimusPrime]

People have been stealing from hospitals. :mad:
https://twitter.com/_AndrewRochford/status/1244018617970122753

[DaptoDog]

Natural light and toys don't mix. ;) The fan is there to help air circulate. Also, I'm only in there during lessons - otherwise I'm on my desktop that's next to my back door for other work. :)

Ok good that it's not your whole day in there. Very cool backdrop for your lessons!

[GoktimusPrime]

Some good news, infection rates are now slowing down in NSW since people started staying at home. Hopefully this trend will be shown soon in other states.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KipR6ieFVhU


Ok good that it's not your whole day in there. Very cool backdrop for your lessons!
Some students have noticed. :p
https://i.ibb.co/FgMkpWw/temp.jpg

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Today's new federal restrictions include - no more than 2 people together in public that aren't from the same house, and we are only allowed to go shopping for necessary items now... which means we could get in trouble if we are caught buying any toys.
I think that would prompt non-grocery stores to close down now, as there wouldn't be enough "essential" items for them to make enough money to stay open.
I wonder if this will mean Post Offices will close up now as well, as they are privately owned franchise stores, so if they aren't doing enough business at the moment, they might follow Myer's example and shut down for a while.I can't see Target/KMart etc (Myers has already shut down) being closed down at this stage - clothes etc are sort of essential items too. It's possible that they could move to online ordering, though they'd have to improve their online ordering sytems re. selection quite a bit (for a lot of things, not just 'random assortment of TFs'). I imagine toys from those sorts of places will still be available. Toystores proper will probably have to close though.

I'd also assume that post offices would be classed as Essential Services, if only because package deliveries will probably ramp up quite a bit.

In Tassie at least veterinary clinics have been classed as 'non-essential' - not sure I agree with that one personally. My neck of the woods is a bit rural (not Trev-level rural but still country towns surrounded by farmlands), so the vet clinics are pretty important (e.g. you go to the vet's for anti-venom if you have a snake bite), and if people are going to be isolated at home for an extended period of time then their pets can help a lot with the social isolation factor (thus reducing the amount of people breaking quarantine/mingling with other people).

[griffin]

I know that post offices could be considered essential, but the stores themselves are privately owned, so just like other stores that were allowed to still operate but closed down, some or all of them could close up if they aren't making enough money and they don't get government help to keep them open.

[kovert]

I don't have exact numbers, but there are still post offices operated 'by corporate' according to a long-serving Australia Post employee. The Australia Post 'Business Centre' I go to is also owned and operated by Australia Post. That particular Business Centre does a lot of parcel processing so it is likely it would continue to operate.

Older people still seem to pay bills at the post office, as well as buy stamps for letters there. They still receive paper bills and pay them at the post office with cash.

[GoktimusPrime]

This may sound a bit odd, but I think it could be argued that home entertainment things like movies, TV shows, toys, games, puzzles, sports equipment etc. are essentials as a lot of people, especially children, are getting really bored at home. Even the PM said that his wife bought some puzzles on the weekend for their kids to solve.

I'm not that concerned (atm) about social distancing at less essential stores because they're honestly like ghost towns. Stores that sell higher essentials are obviously more crowded. As I said before, the last time I did grocery shopping I found the supermarkets all had people in them, but the toy store and aisles were all deserted. Even staff were really sparse (not surprising).

RE: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs)
Obviously the lower tier needs prioritise the higher tier ones, but that doesn't mean that the higher tier needs should necessarily be ignored (so long as it's not at the expense of the lower tier needs). So let's flip the pyramid upside-down and work from bottom up, focusing on the needs relevant to this COVID19 situation.
5th Tier: PHYSIOLOGICAL NEEDS = the need to be alive and physically healthy. As the lowest tier need this is obviously the greatest priority. This is why things physical isolation and distancing are important. None of it is fun, but it all services the most basic need to live. All other needs do not matter now if accessing said needs would compromise the Fifth Tier.
4th Tier: SAFETY NEEDS = here we're looking at financial security and mental health/well-being needs. A lot of people are now experiencing diminishing or lost work, which impacts their financial security. Many people are finding social isolation difficult and it can impact on mental health. Continuing to work is fine so long as it doesn't compromise the Fifth Tier. As griffin said, a lot of blue collar workers are probably suffering now because they are unable to continue working without compromising Tier 5, whereas many white collar workers can continue to work from home. It allows us to maintain our Fourth Tier need without compromising the Fifth Tier. But this isn't possible for everyone (e.g. essential service workers etc.) - but practices have been put in place to minimise compromising Tier 5 (e.g. wearing protective equipment and washing/sanitising hands etc. at work)
3rd Tier: SOCIAL BELONGING = Maintaining social contact is important for many people to stay connected. Servicing the Third Tier is fine so long as it doesn't compromise the Fifth Tier. Mass gatherings do service the Third Tier, but they sacrifice the Fifth Tier, so they are currently not acceptable/permissible. Connecting with people electronically can service the Third Tier without compromising the Fifth Tier.
2nd Tier: SELF ESTEEM = here we're looking at the topic of freedom, and yeah, we are sacrificing a lot of our liberties in order to protect the Fifth Tier. Having freedom is fine as long as your freedom is not compromising Tier 5. Places of worship have now been shut down, but people are still free to practise their faith remotely (e.g. online services, video sermons etc.) or just privately at home. I know someone who's doing their Bible studies via video conferencing online, so their Second Tier need is maintained without compromising the Fifth Tier.
1st Tier: SELF-ACTUALISATION = This covers things like entertainment - games, music, sport, toys, movies, books, TV etc. Again, I don't think that there's anything wrong with servicing these First Tier needs so long as they don't compromise the Fifth Tier. And online shopping gives us the ability to service this First Tier remotely, but also I personally think that buying entertainment stuff IRL or exercising outdoors is fine as long as you're diligently following social distancing (and minimising your time outside) - again, as long as your actions don't impact on the Fifth Tier.

https://i.ibb.co/zbWZkvN/temp.jpg
So as per Abraham Maslow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow)'s Hierarchy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs), we can see that the higher tier needs are lower priorities compared to the lower tier needs which are higher priorities. I think that servicing or maintaining higher tier needs is fine so long as they do not compromise the lower tier needs.

[popculturepooka]

Saying you need constant NEW toys would really hold much water as an argument for needing to go out to buy them though.

In terms of mail delivery, when NZ hit stage 4, they strongly suggested that mail and parcels be for essentials only and non-essentials to be avoided. Although stores selling non-essentials, even online, should be closed.

[griffin]

Even though I was recently advocating toys being a necessity, particularly for keeping children entertained while being locked in their homes for many days on end, it can be a stretch to say they are a necessity for adults... but knowing a bit about mental disorders, and how isolation can make them worse, and how simple things like toys and games can help, I would not be one to advocate prohibiting access to them by people of any age.

The priority thing that many people need at the moment is financial support, and it seems to be taking too long for it to be getting to the people who need it most.

We've created such a consumerist society, with successive governments that have kept wage growth low to prevent inflation eating into corporate profits, it has meant that a significant number of people were under the poverty line, or just barely above it by living paycheck-to-paycheck... leaving them with no savings to fall back on when there is an emergency, relying more and more on credit cards, payday lenders, and buy-now-pay-later schemes that they can't afford. (consumerism has made us forget that if you don't have savings to use on a non-essential item, especially on something that doesn't need replacing yet, don't take on debt that you may not be able to afford to pay back if you suddenly lost your job)

[GoktimusPrime]

Unless you're new to toy collecting, we all have existing toys in our collection to play with! :D :) I don't see the point of collecting toys if you're not going to play with them. ;)

[valkyrie_76]

Just wondering, should I leave TF's that I buy here in a brick and mortar shop in their packaging for a few days or is it okay to open them up? Only asking because it looks like convid-19 can live up to 72 hours on plastic.

Phew Im alright then.........I dont open my stuff for months or years :rolleyes:

[reillyd]

I am wondering, is keeping the sightings threads open really a smart thing right now?

It's encouraging people to go out and "hunt" when they should be staying home or only heading out for essentials. Definitely not toys.

Am I the only one who sees toys as 'essential'? Most of my daily exercise is hoofing it on foot across shopping centres, and it gives my mood a lift to have a hobby.

I'm certain there would be lots of parents who are stocking up on toys to keep their kids indoors too.

[reillyd]

Sorry missed Goktimus's post. Glad I'm not the only one!

[VERT]

I still duck in and have a quick look. I do it when we need to shop for food. Cause it's just next door to Coles anyway. And yes it does keep me sane.

[GoktimusPrime]

Bear in mind that when people are talking about finding SARS-CoV2 "surviving" on surfaces many hours or days later, they're not necessarily talking about the virus in a viable (and thus harmful) form. Usually they're finding viral particles; basically finding the viruses in non-viable and harmless forms because they've been outside of a living host for too long. The viruses have broken down to the point that they're no longer able to attach onto host cells.

A research study published on 17/3/20* found that while SARS-CoV2 can remain viable in aerosol form for up to 3 hours (another reason why I wear a mask!❋) and on surfaces for up to 72 hours (wash your hands!), no viable coronaviruses were detected on metal surfaces after four hours and twenty-four hours on cardboard. So in terms of toy packaging, at most the virus will only remain in viable form on the cardboard for up to 1 day, after when it breaks down into harmless viral particles.

Having said that, if you're still concerned just go ahead and disinfect the box before opening it. That's what I did when I picked up Gulf today. I literally took a can of spray-on disinfectant with me to the shops, and straight after purchasing the toy I stepped outside of EB, put the toy down on a nearby table, then sprayed it with disinfectant (and sanitised my hands for good measure). The EB staff also offered me a plastic bag (so I could've carried it out without touching it if I really wanted to).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
*17/3/2020 research study, New England Journal of Medicine by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and Princeton University
❋That and because I'm always touching my face, so wearing a mask provides a physical barrier between my hands in face. But there are some grubs out there who still don't cover their freaking mouths when they cough :mad:

[Autocon]

How long is it taking to send parcels across the country now?

[griffin]

Good news for Australia. Looks like the stay-at-home and close-down-almost-every-business strategy is working, as the rate of infection is still dropping from the peak back on March 22nd (https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers) (13 days ago), with yesterday having less than a quarter of the new cases we had on the 22nd.

They've now also been adding in "at sea" as one of their foreign source categories*, which is over a third of all known foreign-acquired cases (and people returning to Australia already with the virus is still the largest source of cases in Australia).

*despite the original source being China, and the first strict measures were placed on people coming from China, people who came from South East Asia with the virus still only accounts for 1/20th (about 5%) of cases within Australia. What that means is, the people in charge here were so focussed on stopping people from Asia, they let the virus come in unchecked from everywhere else. Unfortunately, like the Americans have been finding out the hard way out, is that if you wait for the virus to start showing up in your city or state before you take action on limiting its spread, the virus has already infected a lot more people than you know, and often more than the hospital system can handle (compared to early pre-emptive action).

Australia is probably doing well with the really low death rate because we managed to reduce the infection rate to just 0.02%, which the hospital system could handle. The countries that are experiencing a thousand deaths each day had such a large number of infections (thanks to cultural behaviours or arrogant political leaders) that there was not enough intensive care equipment to cover all of the serious cases, leading to people dying who most likely wouldn't have if the (people and equipment) resources weren't so depleted.
Now the politicians over there have to play catch-up and be patient, because strict measures will now take some time to show results, as the people who are catching the virus this week in those heavily infected places with no room left in their hospitals, will be the ones dying next week of the virus or other complications.

[dirge]

Australia is probably doing well with the really low death rate because we managed to reduce the infection rate to just 0.02%, which the hospital system could handle.

Two other factors:

- We're doing much wider testing. So the confirmed cased in some countries won't count those with cold-like symptoms who aren't elderly, for example. The actual death rate as a % of cases is lower, but they're not recording all those cases.

- The smoking rate amongst male Italian Baby Boomers is shockingly high compared to ours. That lifetime of abusing their lungs makes this disease far more potent. On a side note to that, Indonesia's death rate is going to be horrific in a couple of weeks - the smoking rate there is quite high.

[griffin]

It might look like we are testing a lot of people, and compared to some countries we are doing more tests per million people, but at 250,000 tests, that's still means 99% of the population haven't been tested... or more if some people are being tested multiple times (like health care workers). And you'd find that people who have serious symptoms are going to hospital, which would be most of the confirmed cases that didn't arrive from overseas.



- The smoking rate amongst male Italian Baby Boomers is shockingly high compared to ours. That lifetime of abusing their lungs makes this disease far more potent. On a side note to that, Indonesia's death rate is going to be horrific in a couple of weeks - the smoking rate there is quite high.

That's certainly a factor, which had a lot of people at my worksite worried when this was first hitting, as warehousing and transport have higher rates of smokers, because the virus was targeting the lungs, and those with lung damage (from prior diseases, age and self-inflicted/smoking) are more vulnerable.

My noting of "cultural factors" was referring to the European and Middle-eastern countries that greet each other with cheek-to-cheek kissing instead of shaking hands. We were being told fairly early to not shake hands and not to touch our faces... so you can see how the virus spread so fast through some European countries in just a week or two before people were being prevented from contacting each other by being forced to stay at home.

Meanwhile, New York city ended up being like a giant cruise ship, with millions of people crammed into a small strip of land and a delay to act on social distancing, so there was no escape from the virus.
The sad thing is, when ever they finally get a drop in new cases, it will be at least a week until the death rate starts dropping, so as bad as it is now over there, there will be new record numbers of deaths for several days after the new case numbers start dropping.

At least for us in Australia, as long as we don't get complacent for at least four weeks, we should be seeing the death rate continue to fall, now that we've been two weeks since the peak of reported cases.
As people keep returning to Australia (and we still have some cruise ships parked off some capital cities), provided those returning people are isolated when they hit land, our social distancing policies may well be enough to kill off the public spread of the virus here in the next month or two... as long as we keep the borders closed until a vaccine is released, so that no one else can bring the virus back to our shores, and we can start re-opening businesses again.

[griffin]

Just got an email from Toymate, advertising hand-sanitiser...
It looks like everyone is trying to cash in (or maybe with us being told not to be buying non-essentials, they needed to start stocking items that they can sell if people aren't going into their stores to buy toys anymore).

I'd just never think to go into a toy store to buy hand sanitiser.
What next, they'll start selling toilet paper? :p

[gamblor916]

Transformers themed toilet paper. Go on you know you'd buy it.

[dirge]

Transformers themed toilet paper. Go on you know you'd buy it.

Somehow little Scattors as the design seems appropriate.

[DELTAprime]

Just got an email from Toymate, advertising hand-sanitiser...

I wish I could find alcohol-based sanitiser in stores.

[DaptoDog]

It appears this virus has mutated rapidly. It's now called CONVID-19. ;)

Seriously though, Zoom video conferencing is doing my head in. No, I don't want to look up your nostrils. And put on some appropriate clothing. Just because you're working from home doesn't mean you can wear whatever.

No video for our work calls, thankfully.

[G1Optimal]

According to this ( from health.gov.au (https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers) )

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/04/coronavirus-covid-19-at-a-glance-coronavirus-covid-19-at-a-glance-infographic_0.pdf 2315 cases have recovered

[GoktimusPrime]

:( Woman played her husband their wedding song over Facetime as she watched him die from Coronavirus (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/a-new-york-woman-played-her-husband-their-wedding-song-on-facetime-as-he-passed-away-from-coronavirus-c-957284) :(

[G1Optimal]

:(

[GoktimusPrime]

鉄腕コンボイ氏：気をけて下さい！:eek:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200407_43/
Tetsuwan Convoy: Please be careful! :^o

[griffin]

Posts and quotes here need to be in English or include an English translation.
I thought it was already in the rules... I'll have to add it.

[Tha_Phantom]

Yeah, I can't say I feel compelled to open a link if I don't know what it is I'm about to click on. :confused:

[dirge]

Yeah, I can't say I feel compelled to open a link if I don't know what it is I'm about to click on. :confused:

Nothing bad ever happened to anyone who has done that before...

[GoktimusPrime]

Posts and quotes here need to be in English or include an English translation.
I thought it was already in the rules... I'll have to add it.
An English translation was already embedded in the original post. Kthx.

鉄腕コンボイ氏：気をけて下さい！:eek:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200407_43/
Tetsuwan Convoy: Please be careful! :^o
P.S.: In future embedded bilingual posts I'll leave some kind of indicator, like this...
<EN>Faeder ure şu şe eart on heofonum, si şin nama gehalgod ←This is English, btw</EN>

[Unicran]

If you're all cooped up at home at 3:30pm today with time to kill, there is a tv show on Channel 94 (9Life) called Mountain Life. The episode is Colorado Springs Mountain Home. Beautiful mountain views. Check your local tv guide.

[griffin]

Cabin fever must be getting to the people who run the tv networks, as we have both versions of the Willy Wonka/Charlie and the Chocolate Factory on tonight, at the same time (on channel 7 and 9).
I wonder how much the stories match up if you switch between the two channels...

[griffin]

Cabin fever must be getting to the people who run the tv networks, as we have both versions of the Willy Wonka/Charlie and the Chocolate Factory on tonight, at the same time (on channel 7 and 9).
I wonder how much the stories match up if you switch between the two channels...

And to top it off, SBS has a two hour documentary playing at the same time, about the Cadbury factory in Australia.... maybe it's because it's Easter, like having heaps of christmas movies on at christmas.

[griffin]

Watching one of the news programs on SBS yesterday, there are some big numbers so far in the big countries that have lots of resources, money and technology, and hearing some reports from South American countries and Yemen, with thousands of people dying in the streets and homes because there is almost no medical infrastructure or supplies to treat them... it had me thinking about all of the smaller countries, especially 3rd world countries, that are yet to experience the epidemic, and don't have the same resources or economy to deal with it. We see how countries like ours and America are dealing with the virus, by saving most of those affected with advanced medical care and equipment, as well as throwing money at the economy so that it should survive as well... but what of the countries that aren't in the G20 or 1st world? Countries in Africa, South America, Pacific Islands, and South Asia... just about every country in the world would have had travellers bringing the virus to their shores before global travel was shut down. Countries that have no way of being able to treat (in hospital) or contain (pay people to stop working) the virus, the percentage of people who will die in many other countries is going to be even higher than what we've already been seeing in Italy, America and England, as those countries were at least able to save a fair few lives before their hospital systems were overwhelmed.

[Paulbot]

Been concerned about this, the “third world” could be hit very badly by this. But my thinking goes to many terrible futures and I’m trying not to think about it too much.

[dirge]

Countries that have no way of being able to treat (in hospital) or contain (pay people to stop working) the virus, the percentage of people who will die in many other countries is going to be even higher than what we've already been seeing in Italy, America and England, as those countries were at least able to save a fair few lives before their hospital systems were overwhelmed.

The flipside of this for many (not all) of these poorer countries is that they have quite a bottom heavy population pyramid. IE lots of young people.

Italy & Spain have relatively top-heavy population pyramids & so while they have a lot of medical infrastructure, they also have a LOT of elderly - 23% of Italy's population is over 65. Conversely, Yemen's estimate of over 65s (2010) is 2.6%. So while the vulnerable in Yemen are definitely in the firing line, there's relatively few elderly.

(I know, Yemen isn't the BEST example, as it is also facing a lot of health issues thanks to the ongoing civil war, but I was able to pull the number easily)

The one that worries me is Indonesia. The population is over 230 million (4th in the world) and the over 65s are around 7%. So that's roughly 18 MILLION over 65... in a country with one of the highest smoking rates in the world; some really high population densities (Java has 145 million people and it's smaller than Victoria); a lot of poverty and a relatively undeveloped health infrastructure. It's going to get very ugly in our neighbours to the northwest.

[GoktimusPrime]

Smoking apparently increases your vulnerability to COVID-19 up to 300%.
Just another out of the many other super good reasons to quit smoking.

[ChlorHex]

The one that worries me is Indonesia. The population is over 230 million (4th in the world) and the over 65s are around 7%. So that's roughly 18 MILLION over 65... in a country with one of the highest smoking rates in the world; some really high population densities (Java has 145 million people and it's smaller than Victoria); a lot of poverty and a relatively undeveloped health infrastructure. It's going to get very ugly in our neighbours to the northwest.

^This.
They're not known to invest in good infection surveillance nor do they have a health system that is equitable to all.
They would go through a hastened epidemic once local numbers rise - will be a scary situation when that eventuates and will very likely be under reported as well.
Looking at some reports, the population can be quite resistant to preventative measures due to a knowledge deficit.
Then comes the concern of illegal boats that'll carry the disease across to our shores if numbers peak and the country is overwhelmed... but that's for another day.

[griffin]

The situation with Indonesia is worrying, as they haven't had the best political system in place to control the population, and if their social systems collapses under the strain of a full outbreak of the virus, a lot more people will hop on boats to make the short journey to "safety" in Australia, and our border force boats can only intercept a small number at a time. Not to mention all of those people who are transiting through Indonesia from other countries, they might become more desperate to make the final journey to Australia, and the Indonesian authorities might be too busy dealing with their own problems to stop them.

A positive side effect from the virus in this country (according to some stats on the ABC today), is that since the peak of the virus numbers about 3 weeks ago, total patient numbers in Emergency Departments have fallen by 40%, from a usual 90-110% rate, down to about 60% this week... probably because less people are out in public getting hurt, from things like work or leisure related injuries, alcohol fueled violence, and car accidents, as well as a big drop in annual flu virus infections that would normally see hundreds being hospitalised during the winter months.
If we suddenly had another spike of cases, at least we have more capacity in our hospitals at the moment to handle it.

[dirge]

A positive side effect from the virus in this country (according to some stats on the ABC today), is that since the peak of the virus numbers about 3 weeks ago, total patient numbers in Emergency Departments have fallen by 40%, from a usual 90-110% rate, down to about 60% this week... probably because less people are out in public getting hurt, from things like work or leisure related injuries, alcohol fueled violence, and car accidents, as well as a big drop in annual flu virus infections that would normally see hundreds being hospitalised during the winter months.
If we suddenly had another spike of cases, at least we have more capacity in our hospitals at the moment to handle it.

I would expect this to have a lot to do with reduction in idiotic alcohol-fuelled violence, but I suspect the rate of serious car accidents probably helps. We'll be recording the lowest Easter road toll in decades, I reckon.

[Unicran]

The situation with Indonesia is worrying, as they haven't had the best political system in place to control the population, and if their social systems collapses under the strain of a full outbreak of the virus, a lot more people will hop on boats to make the short journey to "safety" in Australia, and our border force boats can only intercept a small number at a time. Not to mention all of those people who are transiting through Indonesia from other countries, they might become more desperate to make the final journey to Australia, and the Indonesian authorities might be too busy dealing with their own problems to stop them.
Hey griffin. Did you come up with this doomsday scenario while having tea with Pauline Hanson? Expect a call from Cory Bernardi to appear on his show on Sky News.

[GoktimusPrime]

This moron broke out of his hotel where he was being quarantined to visit his family... and now he's looking at either paying a $50k fine or spend a year in gaol.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-australia-jonathan-david-becomes-first-australian-to-be-jailed-for-breaking-quarantine-rules-c-977452
:rolleyes: <slow.clap>

[Zippo]

New Zealand is due to end its lockdown in a weeks time; with a decision due on Monday. I am really hoping it is not ended (as much as I want certain things) as I don't feel that we have the testing side of things sorted yet - there are too many "well how did that happen" cases in the last few days.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Japan has finally called a state of emergency for the whole country. What does that mean? They will ask people to stay inside and ask businesses to close. Apparently legally that's the best they can do.

Of course some haven't, like the pachinko parlours that stayed open and were packed with people. Now some of them have closed. I really fear what is going to happen, because the graphs look extremely similar to America's...

Hopefully SOE for the whole country will make people wake up here. So far people have been using it almost as a day off. Lots of kids gathering in parks and playing, mum's clubs etc etc. Crazy.

[GoktimusPrime]

Was doing grocery shopping this morning and saw:
* an old lady having a sneaky nibble on a grape. Ordinarily I wouldn't care about this, but given the current pandemic -- who knows who's touched that grape before. And as a senior citizen, she's in the vulnerable range! :eek:
* an old man coughing without covering his mouth. His hands were empty - so it wasn't like he was holding something and the cough came along too suddenly for him to raise an arm. And heck, when that's happened to me the very least I do is cough into my shoulder.
* an old disabled lady in front of me at the checkout telling the cashier that this was the first time she's bought toilet paper in 8 weeks. :(

Of course some haven't, like the pachinko parlours that stayed open and were packed with people. Now some of them have closed.
(－‸ლ) それどころかパチンコのような賭博場を閉鎖したら、賭博者たちはそんな金の無駄遣いが止められて、別な経済 活動を促進できるんだ。しかしまた問題は、パチンコが法律的に賭博に分類されていない。
https://i.ibb.co/0BDphD5/temp.jpg <The stupid thing is that by shutting down gambling outlets, they could stimulate other parts of the economy by the fact that gamblers are now wasting less money through slot machines. But then again, pachinko's not technically classified as gambling.> :rolleyes:

[Unicran]

Japan has finally called a state of emergency for the whole country. What does that mean? They will ask people to stay inside and ask businesses to close. Apparently legally that's the best they can do.

Of course some haven't, like the pachinko parlours that stayed open and were packed with people. Now some of them have closed. I really fear what is going to happen, because the graphs look extremely similar to America's...

Hopefully SOE for the whole country will make people wake up here. So far people have been using it almost as a day off. Lots of kids gathering in parks and playing, mum's clubs etc etc. Crazy.
For a country that’s supposedly intelligent & obedient, that’s crazy alright.

[drifand]

Many of these countries IMO FAIL to act because they think of economics FIRST than eliminating the virus cases and situation. From my perspective, this is the down fall of many.
1.Closing borders late
2. closing business late < those that have huge groups like pubs night clubs, restaurants and so forth.
3. Not getting clinics prepared, despite hearing of this virus since December. < hey Australia is just as guilty just to be fair.

Many issues involved are due to lifestyle changes that people DO NOT wish to adapt or accept. Refuse to listen to stay in doors.
IMO the faster everyone cooperates and comply, the faster we constrain and restrict who really has the virus and is contained.

Once this is controlled, we know that all new cases are just from cruise ships and overseas flights. I also disagree that flight crew should be exempted, thats garbage, and is no different. (some arrangement are required but in no case they should be walking like everyone else on the streets)

once things are highly contained, we can restart our business. If the country selects Economics as priority, it will not yield any good outcome.

[SMHFConvoy]

Many of these countries IMO FAIL to act because they think of economics FIRST than eliminating the virus cases and situation. From my perspective, this is the down fall of many.
1.Closing borders late
2. closing business late < those that have huge groups like pubs night clubs, restaurants and so forth.
3. Not getting clinics prepared, despite hearing of this virus since December. < hey Australia is just as guilty just to be fair.

Many issues involved are due to lifestyle changes that people DO NOT wish to adapt or accept. Refuse to listen to stay in doors.
IMO the faster everyone cooperates and comply, the faster we constrain and restrict who really has the virus and is contained.

Once this is controlled, we know that all new cases are just from cruise ships and overseas flights. I also disagree that flight crew should be exempted, thats garbage, and is no different. (some arrangement are required but in no case they should be walking like everyone else on the streets)

once things are highly contained, we can restart our business. If the country selects Economics as priority, it will not yield any good outcome.

If you're going to "tut tut" Japan don't forget our federal govt once again had to be dragged into lockdown by the states and territories, the media is still trying push "economy first" as well as a PM hellbent on unnecessarily re-opening schools. This virus takes lives regardless of health or age.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

If you're going to "tut tut" Japan don't forget our federal govt once again had to be dragged into lockdown by the states and territories, the media is still trying push "economy first" as well as a PM hellbent on unnecessarily re-opening schools. This virus takes lives regardless of health or age.Same thing looks to be happening over there tbh - the prefectural/municipal governments are the ones taking it seriously, while the national government will probably have to be dragged along with them once things start getting ugly.

Some of my best friends over there are 60-years-old+ teachers, many with some underlying health issues to boot, it's pretty worrying.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

On the plus side for me, I have the option to work from home for two days a week (yes, thanks boss!), but my better half is seriously stressing out about all the corona news going around.

It would seem the PM of Japan is concerned about the economy a LOT which is why this has taken so long, which I can kind of understand, but having a look at the bigger picture, Japan's workforce, approximately 12% is classed as senior (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/09/15/national/elderly-citizens-accounted-record-28-4-japans-population-2018-data-show/#.XpkXXcgzaHs), if they all die, that too will have a bad effect on the economy as well.

On the plus side though, the govt is supplying two (2) small cloth masks for each HOUSEHOLD:rolleyes: that better be Japanese made, and on a more serious note; my local supermarket has finally started putting the snack type foods in containers, instead of having them lying on the bench in the open (https://resources.matcha-jp.com/old_thumbnails/fullsize/189.jpg). Seriously not even sneeze guards were up. Disgusting! Even before the COVID thing was happening JP people would cough without covering their faces all over these foods.... All people in my family were banned from buying off those displays, only buying the ones in containers!

[dirge]

Same thing looks to be happening over there tbh - the prefectural/municipal governments are the ones taking it seriously, while the national government will probably have to be dragged along with them once things start getting ugly.

The national governments are all thinking "those who AREN'T affected will be angry next time they vote if the economy is in the toilet and they'll take it out on us, having forgotten about COVID".

Keep in mind Morrison doesn't have direct responsibility for health. It's not "his" problem that the hospital systems are stretched - that's the premier's problem.

Of course, it's kinda BS, but they're acting with an eye on the next election cycle, aware that many people have short memories.

John Howard had my support on the gun control measures early on, but lost me when he followed Dubya into Iraq. I still remember than when it came to how I felt about him/his party at every election he contested since... but many forget these things and just look at the slogans at election time.

[DELTAprime]

^ Traditionally when the economy is strong voters are less likely to elect a leader. But when the economy is bad people are far more likely to elect a new leader.

[SMHFConvoy]

^ Traditionally when the economy is strong voters are less likely to elect a leader. But when the economy is bad people are far more likely to elect a new leader.

And the 2013 election outcome was engineered by pushing the narrative that Labor were children (Rudd, Gillard, Rudd), there was a budget emergency (a falsehood) and that the coalition were excellent economic managers (again, a falsehood, we were headed into a recession before the pandemic.)

The current uptick for Morrison as preferred PM, is down to Labor's contribution to the stimulus package and JobKeeper, not because of anything the coalition has actually done.

[Autocon]

I am seeing a lot more plush toys and chalk drawings/messages on footpaths as I go for walks. :D

[DELTAprime]

I am seeing a lot more plush toys and chalk drawings/messages on footpaths as I go for walks. :D

I've heard of people doing that. Any other time I'd assume it was the work of a crazy person.

[griffin]

As I'm seeing more stores catching up with things like toilet paper and mince meat, I'm now seeing a lot of grocery stores (both Coles and Woolies) being completely empty of all eggs in the last week. Something seems to be disrupting the supply of eggs to Coles and Woolies, as almost everything else is starting to show up in decent numbers now.


I feel really sorry for those in America, stuck with a president who just doesn't seem to understand basic science and common sense, which is costing thousands of lives because he doesn't want states to shut down to prevent the virus, and the ones that have shut down he wants them to start re-opening within weeks just as the virus numbers have only just start coming back down... rather than waiting until the virus numbers are at zero or close to it.

It doesn't help that Trump has a major conflict of interest as American President, due to being a businessman with billions invested in real estate and the share-market, he is too focused on protecting the economy or talking it up (to keep the share market in positive territory), because he needs to protect his fortune and family's fortune. Other career politicians are focussed on saving lives right now and worrying about the economy after the virus is eradicated or contained. Trump on the other hand, was not bothered when he was casually announcing that there is a potential for up to 100,000 Americans dying from Covid-19, instead of being saddened by that possibility, or committing to a much lower figure or strategies that could prevent that huge number of deaths. He often tells the media at the press briefings that states don't need as much testing and medical equipment, pointing out that states with very few cases don't need the equipment, while claiming that states with lots of cases are over-estimating the amount of equipment they need (and now that they are just a few days past the highest number of deaths, he's now less interested in helping states, because he is always saying that the virus is just going to die out on its own, as if it will suddenly stop being passed on to new people). So many of the deaths were preventable, but he will just go on blaming everyone else. I don't think Trump has ever taken responsibility for anything wrong during his presidency, claiming to be the smartest, most perfect person in the world, and as long as Fox News is there to keep reassuring him that he is perfect, anything that goes wrong is someone else's fault.

He's so worried about being re-elected, Trump has not only used his Covid-19 update press conferences to promote or defend everything he thinks he has done right, but now he has managed to mobilise his supporters in swing states to go out in public to protest the lockdowns, because it is affecting the economy (which affects his personal fortune), but the protesting will just increase the spread of the virus among the groups of people protesting together.
To top it all, Trump just announced his intention of shutting down Congress (as a right in the constitution that has never been used), because they are preventing him from appointing people to roles that they are not suited for, as they are the only ones with the power (outside of an election) to be able to stand in his way. Removing congress (which is like having our Prime Minister shutting down a minority hostile parliament... something that happened just before the last Federal Election), and discrediting the media (as well as prohibiting some from even attending the press briefings) leaves the American President taking on the role of dictator. Something Trump has admired (being friendly with the "presidents" of Russia, China and Nth Korea - all of which have control of their media, police/military, and/or elections, and have kept themselves in power for decades), and hasn't kept it a secret that he would love to have that same power in America, proposing changes to the constitution to allow him to stay as president.

If Trump loses the election this November, he is not going to go quietly... he will be a constant voice in the media and social media, criticising everything his replacement does... and expect him to run for the 2024 election, and every election after that until he dies of old age, as his power in the Republican party will prevent anyone well-known from running against him if they want to keep their current job in politics (anyone who has spoken out against Trump in the past has either been removed by him, or lost the support of their party and the voters who support Trump). While Trump is alive, I don't think there will be another Republican president, because he won't stand aside to allow someone else whom he would see as inferior to him (everyone is inferior to him), to be the Republican candidate.

[Unicran]

Any excuse to segway to Trump trouncing... Carry on.

[Trent]

Any excuse to segway to Trump trouncing... Carry on.

The dude needs trouncing.

[Unicran]

The dude needs trouncing.
Needs to cut back on eating carrots. ;) Perhaps carrots is the panacea to COVID-19.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Gotta love the protests to end the lockdown. Just waiting for natural selection to run its course....

[griffin]

I think Trump and his blind followers have earned the Darwin Award for 2020.
It just shows how little he cares about others, for sacrificing his republican voters just to target democrat states as part of his re-election strategy (encouraging them to go out in public in crowds to protest the life-saving lockdown measures, in the same week that had the biggest number of deaths the USA has had so far)... and those people who are protesting are too stupid to see that they are just being used for his own political and financial benefit.


My workplace has applied for the Jobkeeper program, and even though they haven't yet been accepted, they sent out emails to us workers yesterday to have us fill in a form if we want to participate, which suggests that they will close down our worksite as soon as they are accepted by the government (which would mean, no more money until the Jobkeeper payments start in about 6 weeks time (which is meant to backdate the payments to when you were laid off).
Obviously we would want the payments if the company isn't going to be paying us anymore, so why ask us if we want to be part of the program.
Ironically, I would expect businesses (and shops) would be allowed to go back to work by the end of May (as the virus numbers should have bottomed out by then), so we would end up being closed down for the next 4-5 weeks, only to be told we can go back to work just before the Jobkeeper payment starts.
I wonder - if the government say that we can relax our lockdown to let people go back to shopping and work before the end of May, would they still pay out the Jobkeeper money to people who were out of work for several weeks, but were back to work when the payments were to be sent out in about 6 weeks time.
I might have to do some reading up on this before I sign up to anything.

[1AZRAEL1]

When you see people shooting pictures of people they disagree with, you really have to question how low can people go and how stupid people really are.

[shockNwave]

Ah Trump, the guy who wouldn't let those pesky victims of 9/11 derail his interview* on that tragic day. So instead of cancelling the interview out of respect he went ahead and the closest he came to showing condolences was to express disappointment that the stock exchange had to be closed due to the attacks.

And now Trump wants to cut the WHO's funding because he see's the corona outbreak as a China vs. USA thing with WHO guilty of siding with China.

*Phone interview given to Alan Marcus (his former publicist).

[DELTAprime]

I can't wait to stop hearing about Trump. Just 8 more months, Just 8 more months.

[Trent]

I can't wait to stop hearing about Trump. Just 8 more months, Just 8 more months.


Ahahahahaha. You think he’ll lose the election.

That’s cute.

[griffin]

Just saw a commercial on channel 7 reminding me of their impending new series of Big Brother.... as if people are going to want to watch other people trapped in a house at this time.

[Unicran]

Just saw a commercial on channel 7 reminding me of their impending new series of Big Brother.... as if people are going to want to watch other people trapped in a house at this time.
All you can eat Sausages, T&A... Yes they will.

Didn’t the joint burn down recently?

[1AZRAEL1]

People in America are out protesting against the forced lockdowns saying it goes against their freedoms. You can't get any more stupid than that. Maybe this virus is mother nature's way of purging. Unfortunately innocents die and stupidity thrives.

[Unicran]

I can't wait to stop hearing about Trump. Just 8 more months, Just 8 more months.
Can Joe Biden live til then? :p

[Zippo]

New Zealand moves to Level 3 after the long ANZAC weekend; slightly larger bubble if you need it (though think!), construction, forestry and schools, and businesses that can do contactless delivery and payments (so, drive through McDonalds etc). Fingers crossed that our tracing is actually up to standard and we don't get more and more cases and have to go back into lockdown again. I just wish we had fines like Australia and Singapore do, but we don't - just police "informing" and saying please.

[DELTAprime]

I just wish we had fines like Australia and Singapore do, but we don't - just police "informing" and saying please.

The fines are pretty good. My cousin nearly got a $13000 fine for not doing the 1.5m thing. The threat of a massive fine works wonders.

[Unicran]

My workplace has applied for the Jobkeeper program, and even though they haven't yet been accepted, they sent out emails to us workers yesterday to have us fill in a form if we want to participate, which suggests that they will close down our worksite as soon as they are accepted by the government (which would mean, no more money until the Jobkeeper payments start in about 6 weeks time (which is meant to backdate the payments to when you were laid off).
Obviously we would want the payments if the company isn't going to be paying us anymore, so why ask us if we want to be part of the program.
Ironically, I would expect businesses (and shops) would be allowed to go back to work by the end of May (as the virus numbers should have bottomed out by then), so we would end up being closed down for the next 4-5 weeks, only to be told we can go back to work just before the Jobkeeper payment starts.
I wonder - if the government say that we can relax our lockdown to let people go back to shopping and work before the end of May, would they still pay out the Jobkeeper money to people who were out of work for several weeks, but were back to work when the payments were to be sent out in about 6 weeks time.
I might have to do some reading up on this before I sign up to anything.
Sorry to hear this griffin. Here is the government link.
https://treasury.gov.au/coronavirus/jobkeeper

From the fact sheet.

EMPLOYEE OBLIGATIONS
Employees will receive a notification from their employer that they are receiving the JobKeeper Payment.
To be eligible, an employee must then complete a nomination form that indicates they meet the eligibility
criteria and agree to a claim by the employer. Employees with more than one employer must only
nominate with their primary employer, and a permanent employee can only nominate with their
permanent employer (even if they have another long-term casual job).

[jazzcomp]

The fines are pretty good. My cousin nearly got a $13000 fine for not doing the 1.5m thing. The threat of a massive fine works wonders.
What? That seems excessive. :eek:

[dirge]

What? That seems excessive. :eek:

Well, those who don't listen / care can be putting the lives of others at risk. In that context, a $13,000 fine seems reasonable, given lives are at stake.

[Tha_Phantom]

The point of a fine is to be "excessive", so people think twice before breaking the law.

[1AZRAEL1]

Context is key. Some dude was told to move on by police, he disregarded them. Spits at police. They arrest him. Some people have no respect and they get the fines/charged as they deserve.

[griffin]

My workplace has applied for the Jobkeeper program, and even though they haven't yet been accepted, they sent out emails to us workers yesterday to have us fill in a form if we want to participate, which suggests that they will close down our worksite as soon as they are accepted by the government (which would mean, no more money until the Jobkeeper payments start in about 6 weeks time (which is meant to backdate the payments to when you were laid off).

Finding out more about the program, that assumption above is most likely incorrect, as the payment is meant to keep people at work and keep their worksite open - even if there isn't any work to do or your business isn't allowed to be open (the business would be paid to have it's workers doing something, like work for the dole).
So even as my worksite is slowly cutting back on its labour costs due to the sales drying up, if $750 of our wages are to be covered by the government, we'd just be called in 4 days a week, doing menial work like cleaning, until we reach $750 worth of hours each week.

However, I think mid-May (3 weeks time), we will have enough states with zero new cases for several days, to warrant almost all businesses being allowed to open up again (while keeping the borders closed until there is a vaccine, or 2 weeks isolation for every arrival). Some states are already having days with zero new cases, while quite a few new cases recently are from Hospitals and foreign arrivals. We still have about 20-30 thousand Australians overseas, and quite a few of those still want to return, not to mention a couple of cruise ships still in our waters, so foreign arrivals will still be bringing the virus here for a few more weeks.
It looks like the number of new cases each day dropped as fast as it climbed, thanks to an almost complete lockdown here. Some might claim that it was over-exaggeration or fear-mongering, but if we had taken less strict actions, we would have had casualties like some of those other countries that acted slowly. It's like when we are told to prepare for a coming cyclone or flood and it doesn't end up being as bad as expected, does that make us wrong to prepare for it? All it will do is have us not be as prepared next time, and the next time could end up being worse than predicted.

[Unicran]

Well, those who don't listen / care can be putting the lives of others at risk. In that context, a $13,000 fine seems reasonable, given lives are at stake.
$5K fine for spitting on an essential worker, includes to & from work. $13k for being caught not 1.5m apart (excluding members from same household). Hmmmm....

[dirge]

$5K fine for spitting on an essential worker

Well, I'm not sure there's a valid reason for spitting on anyone, in truth.

[Unicran]

Well, I'm not sure there's a valid reason for spitting on anyone, in truth.
You’d think deliberate spitting would elicit >$50K fine in comparison.

The spitting recreation scene on Seinfeld was pretty funny though. :D



Well, the same thread over TFW has been removed. Not surprised at all.

[DELTAprime]

What? That seems excessive. :eek:

Apparently that's the fine here in Queensland. I assume other states landed on different numbers.

[Unicran]

Finding out more about the program, that assumption above is most likely incorrect, as the payment is meant to keep people at work and keep their worksite open - even if there isn't any work to do or your business isn't allowed to be open (the business would be paid to have it's workers doing something, like work for the dole).
So even as my worksite is slowly cutting back on its labour costs due to the sales drying up, if $750 of our wages are to be covered by the government, we'd just be called in 4 days a week, doing menial work like cleaning, until we reach $750 worth of hours each week.

However, I think mid-May (3 weeks time), we will have enough states with zero new cases for several days, to warrant almost all businesses being allowed to open up again (while keeping the borders closed until there is a vaccine, or 2 weeks isolation for every arrival). Some states are already having days with zero new cases, while quite a few new cases recently are from Hospitals and foreign arrivals. We still have about 20-30 thousand Australians overseas, and quite a few of those still want to return, not to mention a couple of cruise ships still in our waters, so foreign arrivals will still be bringing the virus here for a few more weeks.
It looks like the number of new cases each day dropped as fast as it climbed, thanks to an almost complete lockdown here. Some might claim that it was over-exaggeration or fear-mongering, but if we had taken less strict actions, we would have had casualties like some of those other countries that acted slowly. It's like when we are told to prepare for a coming cyclone or flood and it doesn't end up being as bad as expected, does that make us wrong to prepare for it? All it will do is have us not be as prepared next time, and the next time could end up being worse than predicted.
I’m not sure griffin. An employee can be stood down & still get JobKeeper payment if Employer & Employee meet the criteria. It’s to stop them migrating over to JobSeeker, which reflects on Jobless rate.

Furlough. That’s a new word I learnt during COVID-19.

[jazzcomp]

$5K fine for spitting on an essential worker, includes to & from work. $13k for being caught not 1.5m apart (excluding members from same household). Hmmmm....
Does that mean you get fined twice? For you to spit, it's possible that you are less than 1.5m away.

[jazzcomp]

Well, those who don't listen / care can be putting the lives of others at risk. In that context, a $13,000 fine seems reasonable, given lives are at stake.

The point of a fine is to be "excessive", so people think twice before breaking the law.
Then we should have a single excessive fine for everything and not break any law. Make the fine a factor of your income so the fine impacts everyone fairly. :) In a time where people could be losing jobs, I don't think fines is a good idea.

I would understand if a COVID-19 person did stuff knowingly to spread the virus, then I would agree to these kind of excessive fines. But then they could have mental health issues and that's why they did it. Example a retired soldier with PTSD was shot/killed by a police officer for violating social distancing (overseas). He doesn't have COVID-19 (FYI).

[1AZRAEL1]

$5K fine for spitting on an essential worker, includes to & from work.

Wonder if once this pandemic is over, will the fine remain as a deterrent, or will they remove it making it ok to spit at essential workers hmmmm

[High_Q]

Wonder if once this pandemic is over, will the fine remain as a deterrent, or will they remove it making it ok to spit at essential workers hmmmm

The fine should remain.

There should be a huge fine for anyone spitting in public, much less on another human being, not just essential workers. :mad:

If people have the urge to spit, go do it in the restroom.

[dirge]

Then we should have a single excessive fine for everything and not break any law. Make the fine a factor of your income so the fine impacts everyone fairly. :) In a time where people could be losing jobs, I don't think fines is a good idea.


Here's a better idea. Don't spit on others. PERIOD.

...that's the point of an excessive fine.

[jazzcomp]

Here's a better idea. Don't spit on others. PERIOD.

...that's the point of an excessive fine.
I was referring to the 13k social distancing fine.

Not spitting is just good manners. I'm not against your better idea. There are a lot of stupid/ill mannered people out there. I'm just more against crime and things that are truly illegal.

[jazzcomp]

Wonder if once this pandemic is over, will the fine remain as a deterrent, or will they remove it making it ok to spit at essential workers hmmmm


The fine should remain.

There should be a huge fine for anyone spitting in public, much less on another human being, not just essential workers. :mad:

If people have the urge to spit, go do it in the restroom.
Even without a fine, it's not ok to spit. I'm not really sure how many instances of this has occurred before. It's just became more concerning now because of COVID-19.

[1AZRAEL1]

Scumbags don't care if there is a fine or not. A few staff were assaulted and spat on at Blacktown yesterday, and the scum turned around and said they have corona, and ran off. The language I'd use to describe these people would not be polite. But this is an all too common occurrence. These specimens of society probably don't even have the money to pay said fine. Under current circumstances, will likely get a slap on the wrist. The last person who spat at me, whilst he got arrested and is known to police, saw him a couple weeks later wandering around. Even the police told me it's most likely not going to amount to anything. It's a joke and empty platitudes. Sorry of I sound jaded, but these things have happened to me many times on the job and nothing comes of it.

Also should note this was in March, before they brought in any fines and such.

[jazzcomp]

Scumbags don't care if there is a fine or not. A few staff were assaulted and spat on at Blacktown yesterday, and the scum turned around and said they have corona, and ran off. The language I'd use to describe these people would not be polite. But this is an all too common occurrence. These specimens of society probably don't even have the money to pay said fine. Under current circumstances, will likely get a slap on the wrist. The last person who spat at me, whilst he got arrested and is known to police, saw him a couple weeks later wandering around. Even the police told me it's most likely not going to amount to anything. It's a joke and empty platitudes. Sorry of I sound jaded, but these things have happened to me many times on the job and nothing comes of it.

Also should note this was in March, before they brought in any fines and such.
Sorry to hear, Az. The ones who do this are the ones who can't afford the fine. :mad:

[Ethel_Hallow]

I used to work in the fast-food game, McDonald's Subway places like this. I have been spat on numerous times and treated remarkably badly by both the customers and management upper management. Even now I have a lot of unresolved mental health issues from such abuse, mostly from the other staff, upper management, and owners. I do have a good idea why this happened to me, I don't conform to normal stereotypes and I am somewhat eccentric at a young age.

This law should have been in place long before covid-19 arrived, many people could catch numerous things from those spitting. In reply to the people in Blacktown, I wonder why they repeat these offences, my theory is a fine is only somewhat a deterrent if the person has/earns/ or is capable of paying the fine and it then effects there abilities to purchase nice things or luxury items. The people that often repeat these offences like driving without a license for example usually get off with a slap on the wrist and a fine that they never pay back and it normally just disappears with hardship.

My hope is that people in the front line (including the kids/adults in the lowest jobs ie, Subway Red Rooster) are treated with respect these people even if young are still risking themselves for little money.

Please stay safe everyone.

[dirge]

]The ones who do this are the ones who can't afford the fine. :mad:

There's likely a high percentage of them who would indeed fit this. In the end, it would probably catch up with them through garnished income or bank accounts.

[Autocon]

I used to work in the fast-food game, McDonald's Subway places like this. I have been spat on numerous times and treated remarkably badly by both the customers and management upper management. Even now I have a lot of unresolved mental health issues from such abuse, mostly from the other staff, upper management, and owners. I do have a good idea why this happened to me, I don't conform to normal stereotypes and I am somewhat eccentric at a young age.

This law should have been in place long before covid-19 arrived, many people could catch numerous things from those spitting. In reply to the people in Blacktown, I wonder why they repeat these offences, my theory is a fine is only somewhat a deterrent if the person has/earns/ or is capable of paying the fine and it then effects there abilities to purchase nice things or luxury items. The people that often repeat these offences like driving without a license for example usually get off with a slap on the wrist and a fine that they never pay back and it normally just disappears with hardship.

My hope is that people in the front line (including the kids/adults in the lowest jobs ie, Subway Red Rooster) are treated with respect these people even if young are still risking themselves for little money.

Please stay safe everyone.

Ive had the opposite, people at fast food places abusing me by doing crap to my food.

[Raptormesh]

I don't come here often but just want to pop in to say hope everyone is well, safe and dealing with the lockdowns. I for one am just happy the supermarkets have gone back to normal, and have a bit more time digging into my small little TF collection to enjoy them! :)

[Unicran]

While some States & Territories are easing lockdown restrictions, Victoria won’t be making any announcement til 11 May.

Don’t know about you lot but I’m spending a lot more money working from home than going to work.

[griffin]

Our numbers are still pretty good in the last week, with most new cases being from people still returning to Australia and from within existing clusters.
I think our politicians could be stepping up their messages of optimism, and that restrictions may only be weeks now instead of months, considering several states have been showing zero new cases for much of the last week. With a couple of weeks of this for all but NSW and VIC, it should mean the virus is virtually non-existent in those other states.

Waiting until the virus was significantly contained or even eradicated, is certainly the option we were going for in Australia, and even I'm surprised at how well it has been achieved here. And fortunately we had our major politicians putting aside their party differences and not actively undermining each other's efforts... unlike in some other countries that are seeing some politicians encouraging people to protest the lockdowns for their own personal political and/or financial benefit.
In a country like America, the virus didn't suddenly appear in every state.... it arrived in just a few coastal states first that have international airports, and is slowly making its way into the central states. Since those central states were getting hit later, some of them (and their people) didn't see the need for a nation-wide lockdown, assuming that the virus was not a big deal because it was some other state's problem. It was then claimed by people in those states that it was all just an over-reaction, and that they were being punished economically... but obviously, if they had pre-emptively locked down their states before the virus hit, they wouldn't now be some of the hardest hit states in the next few weeks. The US have passed 66,000 deaths now, and early projections after lockdown measures were in place over there, was that they shouldn't go above 100,000 deaths in America. With New York being a good example of how to effectively respond to the virus, it was looking like they wouldn't get anywhere near 100,000, but with only about 10 states past their peak deathrate, and about 30 states lifting restrictions this week, I think they are going to smash that number before the end of May.

If a country's government did nothing and 10% of the population died from a preventable death, people would protest... but if a country's government pre-emptively locks down society before it spreads, or has lockdown measures to reduce the death rate significantly, people will never know how bad it could have been and will protest the restrictions.

It's certainly not a good time to be a politician, because you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Both options are going to cost billions of dollars to the economy, because each preventable sick person is an extra expense to the economy (both in medical costs and production costs if they are off work for a few weeks), and each death also has a dollar cost to the economy, particularly if that person is a worker and their job needs to be re-filled and re-trained (especially vital occupations like emergency services).
However, if you take the humane option of saving lives by shutting down society for a couple of months, less intelligent people won't know the amount of lives and dollars saved by preventing the virus from infecting a larger number of people. Even if it "only" killed 10% of the population by doing nothing, just to "protect the economy", most industries and occupations would collapse from under-staffing, costing the economy billions more. Just look at the food supply chain in America - potentially facing shortages of processed foods because too many people in those industries are getting sick and dying. That's millions of dollars lost in spoiled food, and millions of tax dollars spent on alternatives and feeding those out of work or too sick to work.

So for anyone narrow-minded enough who says that it is costing the economy keeping it closed during any virus that has the potential of killing 10% or more of the population WITHOUT restrictions (like this one), tell them to open their eyes to the actual cost to the economy if that number of people and workers are allowed to get sick or die.

[1AZRAEL1]

Annoys me that more people are looking at the dollars over people's lives. Sure the economy is gonna tank, but someone's life should matter more.

[dirge]

Annoys me that more people are looking at the dollars over people's lives. Sure the economy is gonna tank, but someone's life should matter more.

Sadly, to many it doesn't. Especially in the USA, the land of rampant individualism.

[griffin]

Watching some of the various news programs on SBS from other countries is interesting, particularly the non-western news programs that give us details of what the virus is like in all those other non-western countries that our media don't cover. Russia is being swamped with infections still increasing by large numbers, as are some South American countries and Afghanistan. I think Africa could still be a ticking timebomb, as the virus is taking a while to get into a lot of places since international travel has dried up, but it seems that it was international aid workers who have brought in the virus to places like Sudan, that don't have the resources to deal with this virus. On the other hand, countries like Nigeria that have been dealing with things like ebola, could see minimal cases of covid-19, as they have had a number of years of training their people to prevent the spread of infections.

If quite a few countries in Europe, the middle east and Australasia were able to take measures to result in them now being several weeks past their peak infections/deaths, it boggles the mind that a 1st-world country like America is still having 10,000 or more dying each week, with no sign of the rate slowing.
At least half of the US states are still only in the early stages of the virus hitting them, so America is yet to see the worst of this virus, and not just in terms of deaths, but to their economy. The hotspots in places like New York may have had the big number of deaths, but as the "foodbowl" and "manufacturing" states start getting hit by higher infection rates in the next few weeks, their whole country will suffer, as more processing businesses are forced to shut down by choice in states that are re-opened.
And the worse thing for people in those states is that if their state is officially re-opened, people won't be eligible for welfare payments if they refuse to work, even at a business that has had infected people (like over 20 meat processing plants that have become over-whelmed by infected people, having to close down, but being instructed by the president to go back to work). And it will be the lowest paid people who are in jobs most likely to be contaminated by the virus, as blue collar workers and service workers can't do their jobs from the safety of their homes.

I watched the film "Contagion" when it was on TV the other week, and it was from 2011, but it predicted a lot of things that the world is going through right now... and it also showed us how too much of the truth to the public will cause panic and chaos... particularly when there are conspiracy theorists getting in the ears of the less educated.

Just referring to something I had speculated for Australia 6 weeks ago (the virus infecting people in vital industries, causing them to shut down), which fortunately didn't end up happening here, but with central US states rushing to get people back to work, and some food factories already impacted, I think that a breakdown of food chains is more likely to occur over there now. It just makes no sense, for states to see how bad it can from the states that were first affected, to not take similar measures before the outbreak hits them.


With this virus being around for at least 9 months until a vaccine is available (at best), politicians would be foolish to guarantee that the grocery store supply chain (from farms, to wholesalers, to grocery warehouses, to transport, to supermarkets) won't be severed for weeks at a time, if just one person at a worksite or shift is infected. .... any worksite that has over 100 people (like a grocery warehouse), statistically, one of those people will be infected within the next two weeks, shutting down one of three shifts or the entire site for two weeks. Then over the next 9 months as more people get the infection, the site shuts down again, dozens of times until there is a vaccine to keep the place open.

This is certainly one time I'm glad I live here and not over there. I'm just going to miss travelling to other countries for toys and conventions for a while.

[1AZRAEL1]

I'm reminded how lucky I am to get to Germany and back on February. Some of the members of the bands I caught in Berlin I think had to cut short their tour before it finished, and when a they got back some got sick and at least one ended up in ICU.

[Zippo]

What is the Australian side of the talk about the shared AU/NZ bubble?

Personally you couldn't pay me to get on a plane this year and travel anywhere.

[Zippo]

After looking at the sightings thread and seeing sightings .. are Australians able to walk into stores?
Over here in New Zealand, retail stores can only offer contactless delivery - ie, purchase from a website and they will put it into the postal system (some smaller stores allow you to call the store and go to the store to physically pick up something that has been ordered, but you aren't allowed to set foot in the store)

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

After looking at the sightings thread and seeing sightings .. are Australians able to walk into stores?
Over here in New Zealand, retail stores can only offer contactless delivery - ie, purchase from a website and they will put it into the postal system (some smaller stores allow you to call the store and go to the store to physically pick up something that has been ordered, but you aren't allowed to set foot in the store)Depends on what kind of store it is, how big it is, and where you are. There are limits to how many people can be in a given store at once, and a lot of shops/businesses that are 'non-essential' are closed, but things like KMart etc are still open to the public, and at least some restaurants are letting people pick up takeaway orders in-store.
AFAIK the restrictions are mostly on a State or regional basis, e.g. I live in North-west Tasmania these days and we've just come out of three weeks of Stage 4 lockdown, so more stores were closed or else not open to the general public. You could still go into supermarkets etc. though.

[griffin]

Up until last week we could go into any store that was open but we were only supposed to be allowed to buy essential items... however it wasn't enforced. The emphasis was on deliveries and pick-up though. It took some time but number limits now apply to most stores, stopping people from entering a store until someone leaves.

Unfortunately in america, a security guard at a store trying to enforce restrictions - not letting someone in without a mask, was shot by that person and died.... thanks to the attitude of some people over there believing that their personal freedom is more important than their health.

[kristofferrer]

This is really sad. I imagine the pressures from their debts, health and economic systems compounded by their government priorities are driving people to crazy. I really hope they find a way to turn things around or at least get their priorities straight.

By comparison, Australia has an incredible edge in many respects. I hope that we don't get complacent when the lockout rules are relaxed.

[1AZRAEL1]

Couple of employees of maccas over in the US were shot because they refused someone wanting to dine in. It's insane how people act.

[kristofferrer]

Couple of employees of maccas over in the US were shot because they refused someone wanting to dine in. It's insane how people act.

Why does peace appear like a zero-sum game for some?

[griffin]

This is really sad. I imagine the pressures from their debts, health and economic systems compounded by their government priorities are driving people to crazy. I really hope they find a way to turn things around or at least get their priorities straight.


From Wednesday's episode of Planet America, they detailed how difficult many of the states over there make it for people to collect unemployment payments... a lot worse than it is here. Some states have so many requirements to meet, that as little as only 5% of those people applying for unemployment payments, actually get any money. And the ones who are successful, the payments are capped at a couple of months.
And after 40 years of stagnant wage growth over there due to a failed "trickle down" economic policy, a large number of people are stuck on a minimum wage that doesn't help get anyone out of poverty, or save for a rainy day like this year.
This is why so many people over there are so desperate to get back to work, and are protesting against forced closures of businesses, because even with all of the stimulus money being thrown around, very little of it is getting to the lowest paid people. Meanwhile, the richest people in America (the top 0.1%) are too busy trying to protect their billions and the share market they are invested in, that the people who need the financial help, and the medical help, are being used and ignored.

I fear that with most of the American states winding back their restrictions to allow people to earn money again (who aren't able to get any money from the government), their economy will suffer more over the long term, compared to a short-term hit to the economy that countries like ours sustained by doing a more significant lockdown to almost eradicate the virus.

And from tonight's episode of Planet America, the results of New York's virus anti-body testing from the last week has shown that the virus is proving to be fatal to 1.2% of people who catch it, compared to the worst flu viruses that are fatal to just 0.04% of people who catch it. As I had noted a few days ago about how saving lives can be saving money, not just costing money (to the economy), if a country does nothing so that it puts it's economy first, they could expect 1.2% of their population dying from this virus, probably in less than six months if it is allowed to spread freely. For Australia, that would be 300,000 deaths, and millions more being treated medically, which costs a lot of money.
The fact that we have yet to reach 100 deaths in Australia, means our government needs to be commended for saving 299,900 lives (so far), by putting lives before the national economy. (they may not be perfect, but credit where credit is due)

[kristofferrer]

From Wednesday's episode of Planet America, they detailed how difficult many of the states over there make it for people to collect unemployment payments... a lot worse than it is here. Some states have so many requirements to meet, that as little as only 5% of those people applying for unemployment payments, actually get any money. And the ones who are successful, the payments are capped at a couple of months.
And after 40 years of stagnant wage growth over there due to a failed "trickle down" economic policy, a large number of people are stuck on a minimum wage that doesn't help get anyone out of poverty, or save for a rainy day like this year.
This is why so many people over there are so desperate to get back to work, and are protesting against forced closures of businesses, because even with all of the stimulus money being thrown around, very little of it is getting to the lowest paid people. Meanwhile, the richest people in America (the top 0.1%) are too busy trying to protect their billions and the share market they are invested in, that the people who need the financial help, and the medical help, are being used and ignored.

I fear that with most of the American states winding back their restrictions to allow people to earn money again (who aren't able to get any money from the government), their economy will suffer more over the long term, compared to a short-term hit to the economy that countries like ours sustained by doing a more significant lockdown to almost eradicate the virus.

And from tonight's episode of Planet America, the results of New York's virus anti-body testing from the last week has shown that the virus is proving to be fatal to 1.2% of people who catch it, compared to the worst flu viruses that are fatal to just 0.04% of people who catch it. As I had noted a few days ago about how saving lives can be saving money, not just costing money (to the economy), if a country does nothing so that it puts it's economy first, they could expect 1.2% of their population dying from this virus, probably in less than six months if it is allowed to spread freely. For Australia, that would be 300,000 deaths, and millions more being treated medically, which costs a lot of money.
The fact that we have yet to reach 100 deaths in Australia, means our government needs to be commended for saving 299,900 lives (so far), by putting lives before the national economy. (they may not be perfect, but credit where credit is due)

This is so grim. At a time like this, wealthy people (who have more than enough) still need more than those who have so little. I've seen some videos of a new yorker pleading the government just to extend the end date of their debts so that they get through the coming months. I was in NY last year and could already tell that if you're not above the poverty line, the city will just eat you alive - and nobody would know or hear about it.

Our government is doing a great job balancing health and economy (and prioritising health over the economy) and It's good to see all supporting our government's efforts. The early lifting of the lockout laws is a little concerning though.

[1AZRAEL1]

Why does peace appear like a zero-sum game for some?

Too many have been indoctrinated into their rights are more important than ensuring the safety of everyone.

As for our country dealing with it, sure has been one of the better ones for the virus spread, just not helping the most vulnerable financially.

[griffin]

With all of the weird youtube and app videos people have been posting up after weeks of cabin-fever isolation, this guy looks to have mastered that lockdown insanity two years ago, ready for times like this.
Looking at some of his other videos, they are very well done, and wouldn't have been easy to do.
(and naturally, the example I have included here was Transformers related ;) )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Cxrk98ZBc

[griffin]

Children without pre-existing conditions are still proving to be unaffected by Covid-19, but in places that have had high concentrations of the virus, like the UK and New York, a new type of sickness is occurring, and only to children.
It is a type of body-wide inflammation, and seems to only be affecting children after they have had the virus (they are being tested, and found to have the anti-bodies that people get after they have had the virus, and as such they are showing up as negative for the active virus).

It is still only new, and there are still a lot of questions as to what it is and why it is happening after they no longer have the virus in their system, but it looks like it could be similar to an allergic reaction people develop to things like insect bites or foods, in their childhood... often after they have been exposed to it once without a reaction, but their body mistakenly creates anti-bodies to it, and then they have to avoid contact with it for the rest of their lives.
These kids are in areas that are heavily infected, so keep coming into contact with the virus, but now that they have an immunity to it, their bodies might be over-reacting with the new anti-bodies, overwhelming their weaker bodies.

At least here in Australia (so far), we don't have huge clusters of highly concentrated infections, so for those with young kids we shouldn't see this happening here, but for as long as the virus exists in Australia, there is still a very remote chance a child who has had the virus (without any symptoms), comes into contact with someone else later who is infected, and could set off their immune system... so be mindful of the symptoms - a fever, rash, upset stomach, swollen lymph nodes (https://7news.com.au/news/public-health/kawasaki-disease-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-illness-potentially-linked-to-coronavirus-in-children-c-1029731).
(it is being compared to Kawasaki Disease, which is said to be caused by the auto-immune system attacking the blood vessels in the body, and the heart)

[DELTAprime]

Finally got my flu shot yesterday. I hope it's an effective vaccine this year cause I don't want to spend 2 weeks in quarantine.

[1AZRAEL1]

Not sure how effective the flu shot would be against COVID. Honestly I've never taken the flu shot, I rarely get sick. And if I do it's usually only a few really bad days then on the mend again. Always happens though when we have funky changing weather. 15° one day, 40° next. Funny that I was running around Germany most of the time in a t shirt with temperatures ranging 1° to 10° over the 2 weeks and didn't get sick, come back to Aussie weather and within 2 weeks got sick.

[griffin]

The "flu shot" is usually just a vaccine of the 2 or 3 strains that are most likely to hit the country in the winter, so it can be a bit of a guessing game (which is why they choose a few different strains in the one jab), but it usually depends on what strains were most prominent in the winter of the northern hemisphere.
As such, it will only protect you from those selected strains in the current year's jab. If you travel somewhere more exotic, or someone brings a less common strain to your neighbourhood, you won't be protected from any strain of the flu or cold not in the needle (including viruses like Covid)... so that's why it has always been a good idea to wash your hands often, not to touch your face, and avoid physical contact with strangers (including handshakes or (bro)hugs).

One of the reasons why the government (and sports) are really pushing the flu jab this year is so that it reduces the number of people needing to be hospitalised by the regular flu, so that resources are free for Covid patients... and so that people hit by the regular flu don't then catch the covid virus more easily (from others, or from the hospital if they have to go in for the regular flu).

[DaptoDog]

Perhaps DELTAprime meant that if you don't catch the flu then you won't exhibit symptoms that would require the COVID test? Because if you do get tested they still require you to quarantine yourself for up to 14 days regardless of the result since the test is not 100% accurate (as happened with my wife).

[Autocon]

Now that i know the flu shot only lasts 3 months not sure if i should bother.

Im wondering if cases are down because people are not getting tested as regularly as before

[Unicran]

Finally got my flu shot yesterday. I hope it's an effective vaccine this year cause I don't want to spend 2 weeks in quarantine.
Well done. I strongly advocate everyone to get their yearly flu shot. It's an insurance policy & for less than $20 (some employers provide free of charge), it's a no brainer.

[DELTAprime]

Yeah. If you get Covid like symptoms, AKA the flu, you're supposed to quarantine for two weeks. I'd prefer not to do that.

[griffin]

If businesses or employers are to be allowed to send home anyone with flu-like symptoms, it certainly would be a good idea to prevent the regular flu, so you don't freak out others unnecessarily. Unfortunately for people like me who gets hayfever allergies over just about everything, I am constantly sniffling, sneezing and coughing, and it gets worse in winter as the cold air makes my sinuses and lungs more irritated. I get a lot of bad looks these days, at work, and when I'm out (like at the shops).


Now that i know the flu shot only lasts 3 months not sure if i should bother.

Im wondering if cases are down because people are not getting tested as regularly as before

Even if it does only last for 3 months, that covers most of the high-risk months, and if enough people have the vaccine, it means less people who aren't vaccinated will catch it, as they will come in contact with less people who are infected.
It's important for the young and old to get it, as they are the ones most affected by the symptoms, but just like with the Covid virus, people who are less likely to be sick from it could still be carriers and pass it on to someone who is more vulnerable.

As for testing, if you are referring to covid testing - testing numbers are supposed to be at record numbers every day (according to the graphs on the ABC), but it does come down to who they are testing... particularly if they are only testing people with symptoms, as that would miss the majority of infected people who show no symptoms.
The QLD government website even says that if you don't have any of the listed symptoms (like dry cough, runny nose or fever), they won't test you. The only exception is if you know that you have been in contact with someone who is infected, or have just returned from overseas.

In New York city they did anti-body testing of 3000 people three weeks ago, and found that 20% had anti-bodies (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-antibodies-test-ny.html) (which means that they already had the virus, and it was already dead in their system). That meant that about 2.7 million people in NYC could have already had the virus, even though official stats (from official testing) is only at 185,000 cases (as of today). This is because they have limited testing materials and potential. Every country is like that. Unless you are testing EVERYONE weekly, you won't have an accurate number of cases. Our state governments are boasting about 10-30 thousand tests each day, but that's still less than 0.1% of the population being tested each day. At that rate, it would take 3 years to just test everyone once, so how can we know for sure how many people are currently infected, or know when people get infected later after they have had just one test.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Yeah. If you get Covid like symptoms, AKA the flu, you're supposed to quarantine for two weeks. I'd prefer not to do that.

Where does it say that?

If you get Covid like symptoms, AKA the flu, then you should get tested for Covid-19. Whilst awaiting the results, you should self-isolate. Once you're given the all clear, you're good to go.

[DaptoDog]

Where does it say that?

If you get Covid like symptoms, AKA the flu, then you should get tested for Covid-19. Whilst awaiting the results, you should self-isolate. Once you're given the all clear, you're good to go.

No that's not the case, at least not NSW and I'm pretty sure for other states. It surprised me when my wife was tested. I don't have the time to find it right now but the health authorities websites tell you to still isolate. The nurse also told my wife to isolate for 14 days when she administered the test.

[griffin]

On tonight's episode of The Last Leg, they showed a clip of a lady in America in a convenience store, wearing a mask with a hole cut in the front... telling the person recording her that she cut the hole to help her breath easier.
Can people really be that stupid?
The mask is there to prevent or limit breathing in (virus/dust/etc) particles, so cutting a hole in the front where the mouth is, makes it completely pointless wearing it.

These are the sort of people that Darwin Awards are made for.

[DaptoDog]

On tonight's episode of The Last Leg, they showed a clip of a lady in America in a convenience store, wearing a mask with a hole cut in the front... telling the person recording her that she cut the hole to help her breath easier.
Can people really be that stupid?
The mask is there to prevent or limit breathing in (virus/dust/etc) particles, so cutting a hole in the front where the mouth is, makes it completely pointless wearing it.

These are the sort of people that Darwin Awards are made for.

Yeh I saw that too. Yes Americans can be that stupid.

[DaptoDog]

No that's not the case, at least not NSW and I'm pretty sure for other states. It surprised me when my wife was tested. I don't have the time to find it right now but the health authorities websites tell you to still isolate. The nurse also told my wife to isolate for 14 days when she administered the test.

Sorry I take this back. The rules must have recently changed for NSW.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/factsheets/Pages/advice-for-suspected.aspx

They now say you don't need to self isolate after a negative test unless you were a close contact of a confirmed case or recently travelled overseas. This was not the case when my wife was tested in April.

Although at another link it says you should also stay home while you still have respiratory symptoms. Doesn't necessarily need to be for 14 days though.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/release-from-isolation.aspx

[shockNwave]

On tonight's episode of The Last Leg, they showed a clip of a lady in America in a convenience store, wearing a mask with a hole cut in the front... telling the person recording her that she cut the hole to help her breath easier.
Can people really be that stupid?
The mask is there to prevent or limit breathing in (virus/dust/etc) particles, so cutting a hole in the front where the mouth is, makes it completely pointless wearing it.

These are the sort of people that Darwin Awards are made for.

I wonder if there are Americans going around saying, " I carry a firearm to protect myself from the corona virus."

[griffin]

A nurse in North QLD who works at an elderly facility, has tested positive to the virus, after a couple days going to work with symptoms.
What were they thinking?
The elderly are the ones most vulnerable, and we just had an outbreak at a nursing home in NSW that has been all over the news, and someone ignores their flu symptoms and goes to work among the elderly. Even if it wasn't the covid virus, you don't bring the cold or flu into a nursing home if you have the symptoms.

Finally, our hard work and commitment to a common goal has paid off, and restrictions are being wound back across the country this week.... some states more than others, but quite a lot can be done now in most of the country, without too much of a hassle if you are patient and exercise sensible self-hygiene.
And with a lot less risk than in America at the moment.
More states are opening back up, and their death rate is not slowing down.
Their population is about 330 million, which is about 13 times the size of our population.
Our death rate is currently at 98 people, which would mean that if America had prioritised its people over its economy, their death rate should currently be at about 1,274.
Their death rate today is 86,912.

That's 85,638 people who died unnecessarily in America.
It's not like America has anything significantly different to Australia either, as they only have one city (New York) that has more people than our largest cities... as their second largest city (Los Angeles) is smaller than both Sydney and Melbourne. Our third largest city (Brisbane) is about the same size as their 3rd largest city (Chicago)... so the difference isn't about population or concentration, the difference has been the measures taken by each country. Australia (and New Zealand) did whatever was necessary to stop the spread of the virus, to achieve something even I didn't think would be possible. America has some states and cities trying to take measures to stop the spread, but without a coordinated approach that is supported by the federal government like we had here, it is becoming a losing battle over there. Other countries that had their outbreaks start up at the same time have been weeks past their peak, America still hasn't even reached the peak, with 10,000 deaths each week.
And one state that had lockdown restrictions, has just had them ruled illegal by the courts, with the president praising the decision to force a state to re-open.

Never trust a billionaire... they will only do whatever is in the best interest of their bank balance. Everyone else is just expendable, as long as the stock market and the economy are kept alive (which is why he keeps giving pep-talks for the share market, and turns on anyone or any state trying to prioritise saving lives).

[dirge]

as their second largest city (Los Angeles) is smaller than both Sydney and Melbourne. Our third largest city (Brisbane) is about the same size as their 3rd largest city (Chicago)...

Be careful to compare apples with apples. The USA tends to quote the "city of x" populations, Australia quotes urban areas.

The City of Los Angeles has roughly 4 million... the City of Sydney has around 250,000.

Greater LA is around 13 million. "Sydney" which includes all the various suburban councils, is around 5 million.

Chicagoland is about 9.5 million, extending across northern Illinois and into Indiana. Brisbane (including Logan, Ipswich etc) is around 2.5 million.

That's the like-for-like comparisons.

That said, your point about different measures remains very much valid. The biggest difference is, as you say, the way the whole shebang has been managed (or mismanaged, at certain levels of government in the USA).

[Unicran]

Never trust a billionaire... they will only do whatever is in the best interest of their bank balance. Everyone else is just expendable, as long as the stock market and the economy are kept alive (which is why he keeps giving pep-talks for the share market, and turns on anyone or any state trying to prioritise saving lives).
Multiple choice answer:
A) Bill Gates
B) Warren Buffett
C) Donald Trump
D) Kylie Jenner

Hmmm...

[SMHFConvoy]

A few weeks ago I started working at a furniture store and thanks to mixed messaging from the PM, the CMO and State government, social distancing is non existent.

[1AZRAEL1]

Talking about stupid decisions, they're now gonna restrict people on trains and buses. And honestly, like it will actually happen. Wonder why they didn't do this months ago.

[DaptoDog]

Talking about stupid decisions, they're now gonna restrict people on trains and buses. And honestly, like it will actually happen. Wonder why they didn't do this months ago.

Once everything got shut down including offices there was no need to restrict public transport since peak hour demand had fallen off a cliff anyway. Now that everything is ramping up again it makes sense to restrict usage.

I normally catch the train into Sydney for work but I'm in no rush to get back on one.

[shockNwave]

Ah America, the land ahead of other first world countries when it comes to establishing a second gilded age. No wonder they prioritize profits over people.

[dirge]

I normally catch the train into Sydney for work but I'm in no rush to get back on one.

I have been working from home, and while I'd rather work at work (which is 2 trains each way), I'm in no rush to get back onto public transport. I'd much rather do my bit to ensuring we don't get a second wave & minimise the deaths.

[griffin]

I just remembered something that I heard on the radio about a week ago... the place in Sydney called Carriageworks (near Redfern), went into voluntary administration (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/carriageworks-enters-voluntary-administration-20200504-p54pr5.html), due to having no revenue coming in during the virus, and not having any guaranteed source of revenue for the foreseeable future.

Okay this isn't a huge deal compared to all of the other businesses collapsing at the moment, but it has a history with the Transformers Brand, as it was the location that Paramount Pictures held its press conference in 2007 for the Transformers movie, with Michael Bay, Megan Fox and Rachel Taylor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KERGR1khass

[griffin]

And this one, because the board wouldn't let me have more than one video in each post...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE_R-qEh6IQ

[Unicran]

I have been working from home, and while I'd rather work at work (which is 2 trains each way), I'm in no rush to get back onto public transport. I'd much rather do my bit to ensuring we don't get a second wave & minimise the deaths.
We are probably in the minority, but I too prefer to be in the office rather than WFH. Thankfully I drive to work.

[1AZRAEL1]

Once everything got shut down including offices there was no need to restrict public transport since peak hour demand had fallen off a cliff anyway. Now that everything is ramping up again it makes sense to restrict usage.

I normally catch the train into Sydney for work but I'm in no rush to get back on one.

I work for public transport. Whilst regular peak hour demand went down, if you ever saw the fluro brigade catching trains between 4am and 6am, you'd see social distancing wasn't a focus. Trains were still way packed.

[DaptoDog]

I work for public transport. Whilst regular peak hour demand went down, if you ever saw the fluro brigade catching trains between 4am and 6am, you'd see social distancing wasn't a focus. Trains were still way packed.

Fair enough. Thankfully I don't need to get on a train that early!

[1AZRAEL1]

Fair enough. Thankfully I don't need to get on a train that early!

Happens. But I can see this will cause more issues than they think. Relies on people to do the right thing too by keeping distance

[Unicran]

Quick everyone. Get your hands on hydroxychloroquine before the mass panic buy.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Quick everyone. Get your hands on hydroxychloroquine before the mass panic buy.

As long as you're not...as they say..."morbidly obese" :cool:

[Unicran]

As long as you're not...as they say..."morbidly obese" :cool:
Possible Side effects (may already exist or maybe side effects, I don't know):
1. Orange face complexion. Interestingly, areas immediately around the eyes are not affected.
2. Foot in mouth disease.
3. Speech impediment. For example, pronounce China as 'Chay-na'.

[Unicran]

What's a mere 60 billion dollars over estimation Covid-19 stimulus package.

[griffin]

With international travel unlikely to return to pre-virus levels for at least 2-4 years AFTER a vaccine is distributed across the globe (which itself would take a couple of years to produce and administer), a number of international airlines who had those giant double-decker A-380 planes, are retiring them, after little more than a decade of operation.
QANTAS got their first one in September 2008, and I believe they were one of the first airlines to get them, and not many airlines ended up buying them due to the GFC that hit at that time, so I imagine a lot of the US and European airlines had to cancel their orders at the time, which is why we didn't see as many of them as was expected, as they were said to be the replacement for the 747. I remember many airports having to upgrade to cater to the larger A380, as their runways or gates/skybridges weren't able to accommodate them.

With the virus preventing almost all international travel, and with smaller fuel-efficient aircraft now available from Boeing and Airbus, I would imagine that the A380 is unlikely to be seen in the skies again, because by the time there are passenger numbers to fill them, airlines would have replaced their older planes with the more economical planes that can fly further.

I don't think I would have ever been able to afford (or want to) pay for a first class flight across to the other side of the world, but I'd always dreamed about one day being able to fly in the top level of an A380 or 747.
As someone who has done a fair bit of international travel thanks to botcon, I'm a bit nostalgic about the big iconic aircraft that I've been on over the last few years... but I guess they'll just be something that lives in our memories and images, like the concord. I doubt there would be too many aircraft museums around the world wanting to waste a lot of space for one of these, just for a few people a year to look at in person.

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/bc09/m01.jpg

That was the one Demonac and I took from Melbourne to LA in 2009, for BotCon. I was just so amazed at how massive it was, and it's engines, from being up so close to it. You're sitting in it as it runs down the runway, wondering how is this massive beast able to get off the ground... and yet it does.

[Ralph Wiggum]

The A380 was already on the decline before Covid-19, no doubt this is the final nail in the coffin. As you?ve stated, Airbus underestimated the impact of more fuel efficient planes like the Dreamliner.

I?ve flown in the A380 a few times, in economy. I will miss the mini bar in the middle where you could help yourself to a drink/snacks. As an aside, I?ve flown in the top section of the 747 on one occasion in business class. You gotta try business at least once ;)

[kovert]

That was the one Demonac and I took from Melbourne to LA in 2009, for BotCon. I was just so amazed at how massive it was, and it's engines, from being up so close to it. You're sitting in it as it runs down the runway, wondering how is this massive beast able to get off the ground... and yet it does.

The aircraft in the photo looks like VH-OQA ('Nancy-Bird Walton'). The aircraft is notable as a result of an uncontained engine failure over Indonesia in November 2010 during a London to Sydney flight ('QF-32').

[griffin]

The aircraft in the photo looks like VH-OQA ('Nancy-Bird Walton'). The aircraft is notable as a result of an uncontained engine failure over Indonesia in November 2010 during a London to Sydney flight ('QF-32').

Wow... I did not know that.
Fortunately we were on it 18 months earlier, so it was flying around a lot after we were on it... but it makes you think, what if.

Looking up this article online (https://australianaviation.com.au/2018/05/home-again-the-repairs-and-the-return-of-qantas-a380-vh%E2%80%91oqa-nancy-bird-walton/), that particular A380 was the first one QANTAS received from Airbus, which made it the symbolic flagship of their fleet.

SEPT 2008 - first A380 plane arrives in Australia (which is this one).
May 25th 2009 - we are on the plane to America.
NOV 4th 2010 - engine explodes from Singapore to Sydney.
APR 24th 2012 - plane finally arrives in Sydney after repairs in Singapore.

Looks like QANTAS only ended up with 12 A380s, which makes sense, as it was only being used for their flights to New York and London, which would mean 3 or 4 flying each way at any one time.

[kovert]

Interesting article, Griffin. The ATSB investigation concluded that an improperly manufactured stub pipe (which had developed 'fatigue cracking') within the engine caused the failure. This means it could have happened at any time. :eek:

[DELTAprime]

Yeah, Qantas used Rolls Royce engines in its A380s. The stub pipe was poorly designed by Rolls because of how incredibly thin the pipe walls were. Could have happened on any A380 at any time using Rolls Royce engines.

[griffin]

That's why I was so amazed when I found out, that it was a ticking timebomb, and really could have happened at any time. It was just so lucky that the incident occurred so close to Singapore... if it had happened over the pacific ocean on the way to America, the outcome would have been a lot different.


Speaking of America... since I have a vested interest in their response to the virus as I want to return there at some point soon if they start up conventions again next year... the country will officially pass 100,000 deaths in the next few days, and the rate isn't really slowing down. With most states now a week or two being re-opened, several of them have seen an increase in cases in the last few days.
The problem is that a lot of people are back out in public, in crowds, and refusing to wear a mask, which is proven to be the best preventative measure (I don't know why we didn't have it introduced here as a compulsory measure).

How do you expect the general population to adhere to safety measures if their head of state doesn't set a good example for them to follow... refusing to wear a mask in public, shaking hands with others, claiming that the virus is a hoax or overblown, being in close proximity to others without a mask, relying on a drug that isn't proven to prevent catching the virus, and out playing golf this weekend while thousands of doctors and nurses are getting sick and dying while trying to save lives that didn't need to be at risk in the first place.

Even though I've stopped pointing out all of the bad things their president does, due to people reminding me that this site should be avoiding political discussion... it is just impossible to not comment on the ongoing train-wreck that is the USA at the moment, and seeing how different it would have been if someone else was in charge that cared more about their citizens than their fortune. These are people, human beings that are dying, or knows someone who has died, and politicians on both sides are too busy fighting among themselves... or golfing. (just like our prime minister choosing to stay in hawaii during the bush fires)

America has the world's largest economy and the largest military (spending), so they had the resources to contain this virus to levels better than us here in Australia... they just didn't have a united, bi-partisan leadership to develop a strategy and support each other to stick to it. So not only did they re-open before most of their states were seeing a drop in cases, but the message from the president is that if case numbers do go back up, there will be no second lockdown. I think they are "all in" on the belief that there will be a vaccine before the end of the year.... and if that doesn't happen in the next 4-6 months, the only future the USA has with this virus, is to create a herd immunity (like Sweden), and expect a lot more people to die (mostly the elderly, the poor and the non-white).

A vaccine is pretty much the only way any of us will get to attend a future BotCon or convention in general in America. :(

[Tha_Phantom]

From Sydney Morning Herald. I would have linked an article but it's part of a longer news thread on there.


Human trials have begun for a COVID-19 vaccine at the Alfred Hospital in Melbourne, it has been announced this morning.

The trials, the first in the southern hemisphere, will test a vaccine developed by US biotech company Novovax.

“Administering our vaccine in the first participants of this clinical trial is a significant achievement, bringing us one step closer toward addressing the fundamental need for a vaccine in the fight against the global Covid?19 pandemic,” Stanley C. Erck, Novovax CEO and president said in a statement to Forbes.

Roughly 131 people aged 18 to 59 will take part in the trial.

Results are expected in July 2020.

The vaccine is one of over 100 vaccines currently being developed across the world.

I'm surprised we can get results as soon as July, although not really sure what that means exactly.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Japan ended it's "Lockdown" yesterday/today. As much as it was. I think it did have an effect, at the very least scaring people into being more careful. However I am very concerned that now it's off, people will resume as if nothing happened.
reading around a few news sites, there seems to be lots of comments from people interviewed (on the street) that they are glad the emergency declaration is over as they want their kids back at school/ eat some food they couldn't get during the lockdown etc. These could well be selectively chosen comments, but it feels like people didn't understand the emergency. Interestingly it seems that many Japanese families are held together by not being together.

The fact that Japan has weathered it with rather low numbers (it has been extremely hard to get tested here though) but even low death rates , is a matter of luck over planning.

During the lockdown, I was allowed to work from home, and as one of the youngest/most computer savvy in the place, was actually able to work from home. I suspect that most others weren't and just had days ff (lucky them). However now it's over the boss has said no more teleworking. Now considering that my boss is actually a smart, strategic dude with a wealth of experience in Japan and overseas, and he has cancelled all work from home options, It makes me think less progressive companies will just go back as per normal.

i wonder if Japan's "Second wave" will be much larger than the first.

[shockNwave]

Where I'm working, profits have dropped by a third and Jobkeeper payments are now starting to happen. Everyone has to take a week (maybe two) off on a rotating basis. I'll be heading back to work tomorrow.

The way I see it we've been lucky so far unlike those small businesses I see vacated and closed at shopping centres and shopping strips.:(

[jazzcomp]

If company allows remote work full time, I can definitely think of possibilities/considerations to work overseas once everywhere is Covid safe. Or maybe spend a few months elsewhere instead of using vacation leave.

[Unicran]

If company allows remote work full time, I can definitely think of possibilities/considerations to work overseas once everywhere is Covid safe. Or maybe spend a few months elsewhere instead of using vacation leave.
I hear ya jazzcomp. Wouldn't mind working in the bahamas during our winter months to get away from Melbourne's crappy weather, like today.

[griffin]

Brazil is turning into the next big hotspot, and they are one of the 10 biggest economies in the world, but for some reason they have one of the poorest per-capita earnings (which must mean a lot of money is going to a very small number of people).

On the other end of the spectrum, our numbers are still amazing, even after a few weeks of varying stages of wind-back of restrictions (which have seen other countries see a spike in new cases). The other day, every state and territory except Victoria had zero new cases for the day... which is why we are seeing restrictions being lifted ahead of schedule in most states.
We certainly can't be complacent, because we are still having people returning to the country who are infected (three yesterday, which had to be included in NSW's total), and without a vaccine or cure, anyone coming into the country (citizen or not), could easily start the whole thing all over again, taking us back to where we were in March.

I'd like to see states with zero active cases and no new cases for more then 4 weeks, open up their borders with each other, so that we have freedom of travel between the "safe" states, which will help with the local economy and tourism.
It was suggested that the virus could have remained dormant in that nurse in North QLD who went overseas in March, but might have been infecting people as recently as early May (the Rockhampton nursing home and the 30 year old guy who died last week). That hasn't been confirmed yet, but since there are so few (known) active cases in QLD, it's being assumed that she was the host.
(that 30 year old guy who died might have been the youngest Australian to die, but he was in the other high-risk category as he was said to be still recovering from a serious work-place injury... his body probably wasn't able to fight off the virus in his weakened state)

[griffin]

Okay, so that guy in QLD who died last week, his body was re-tested and he didn't die from the virus, so his earlier test was a false positive.

[Zippo]

The political minefield that the "trans tasman" bubble has become.
Sorry, but until Australia has 0 active cases like New Zealand, you can stay over there. ;)

[DELTAprime]

The political minefield that the "trans tasman" bubble has become.
Sorry, but until Australia has 0 active cases like New Zealand, you can stay over there. ;)

Personally I think countries are coming out of lockdown way too early all over the globe. For me, peoples health is more important than getting back to work.

[griffin]

New Zealand are officially clear of the virus, with their last active case now recovered.

Yesterday in Australia, we had zero new cases of Covid that were transmitted within the country (according to the news today, the 2 new cases were both new arrivals to the country (https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers) that go into isolation until they are clear).
Fingers crossed that we continue with this trend, and when everyone has returned to Australia, we follow New Zealand's lead in having the remaining few people recover without infecting anyone else.

(we can't be complacent until we are clear of the virus, but I think it would be good that the Government breaks down the case numbers into ones that were new arrivals and ones that were caught among residents, so that we can be reassured that our sacrifices are working, and that we don't need to be as paranoid about catching it from everywhere, as many were worried about back in April)

The covid stats website (the link above) says that there are still 547 active cases yet to recover... but I'm not sure how accurate that is, because counting back 547 new cases on their graph (6,720) was 6 weeks ago (April 28th), but most people recover within 2-4 weeks. It is rare for people to take longer than that, and those who do are in hospital (there are only 19 people still in hospital with the virus). I think the number should be closer to 200.
At least it has been a while since we had a covid death in this country, as we are still at 102 from May 23rd (18 days ago).

[Unicran]

Four new cases in Victoria today.

[Zippo]

And we are back.. I really hope heads roll for the complete sh**-show that this example has uncovered. All the things we were told were being done to keep New Zealand free of the virus and .. nothing was actually being followed.

[Unicran]

Comment deleted -- not appropriate -- dirge.

[Autocon]

And we are back.. I really hope heads roll for the complete sh**-show that this example has uncovered. All the things we were told were being done to keep New Zealand free of the virus and .. nothing was actually being followed.

???

[Convoid]

???

New Zealand was virus free then they let 2 international visitors leave quarantine early to visit a dying relative. The 2 visitors ended to testing positive for the virus and there are now fears they may have infected others.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/jacinda-arderns-fury-as-uk-travellers-bring-coronavirus-back-to-nz/news-story/0731bb19c5eaed8d10bf24df1fba6e2f

[1AZRAEL1]

--original comment deleted--

Highly unnecessary comment

[dirge]

Highly unnecessary comment

Deleted.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Welp, it's back in Beijing now too.

Plus our guvvo is looking at keeping the overseas travel ban until 2021 at least, which on the one hand is probably not a bad idea, though I do think it'd be nice if we could figure out some sort of way we can get some international students coming back in, the uni sector is really struggling without their main source of funding and I don't see the government/s offering to step up and undo all those public funding cuts the uni sector has had over the years. On the selfish downside, I just finished upskilling as an overseas English teacher last year, so it's a bit of a kick in the 'nads for me work/career-wise. The same thing happened with the GFC after I finished my first set of major TESOL qualifications too.

Maybe I should just never study or try to work in my field ever again, every time I do some kind of worldwide disaster hits and if/when I do get accepted for a position somewhere that country seems to get some massive disaster as well. :(

Not that lots of other people don't have things worse right now of course, and not to ignore that a whole lot more people are going to be in even more trouble if/when September comes around, those mortgage freezes/rental eviction bans end, Jobkeeper (possibly/probably) ends, and the dole goes back to it's former <2/3 of the poverty line. That's not going to be pretty.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Aaand Melbourne ain?t looking too crash hot right now.

[DELTAprime]

^ I guess it's a good thing for me then that the Queensland border is still closed.

[Unicran]

Aaand Melbourne ain?t looking too crash hot right now.
Some restrictions back in place due to consistently high new cases these last 4 days. Was gonna offload on the matter but will only be deleted.

[griffin]

The surge in cases in Victoria is going to push back re-opening states and their borders. And with NSW not wanting to close their border to Victoria, QLD won't risk opening up their border to NSW, as the virus could spread into there from Victoria.
And if NSW records some community cases in the next couple of weeks, we could see a stalling of their re-opening... which could prevent the proposed toy reveal at Hasbro's Sydney office at the end of July (it is yet to be locked in, but might be conditional of the virus status in NSW, and how many people can be in the one room in July).

According to one of the news programs yesterday, the reason why Victoria has had this new spread of the virus that other states aren't seeing, is (according to them) that the Victorian quarantine hotels (for the people returning from overseas) were being guarded by private security, who were not as vigilant at keeping the integrity of the quarantine (cleaning and isolation regimes), so they were getting infected and spread it to their family and friends when they went home.
Other states with returning people were apparently using defence force (army) personnel who are trained to be strict and self-protected.... because other states (NSW, QLD, WA) have also been having thousands of returning citizens being quarantined, without the same outbreaks in the community that Melbourne has seen.

In contrast, the other day saw just 2 or 3 active cases left in WA and QLD, who are all in quarantine hotels. I think NSW is close to being the same, but they are still getting returning citizens, which is making their daily case numbers look bad, but most of the new daily numbers have been put into quarantine hotels.
How much longer are we going to be having returning citizens, so that we can stop having people bringing the virus into the country... and we can re-open faster when the remaining active cases are resolved. People have now had 3 months to return after our borders were officially closed and international travel was banned, and even though it was difficult to get flights back from some countries at first, how much longer does it take people to find their way back. If this is going to be an ongoing trickle of returning citizens for many months, maybe have them arrive at an off-shore location like Christmas Island for their 2 weeks of quarantine, and only allowed back into Australia when they have tested clear over several days (because none of the covid tests are 100% reliable and often giving false positives and false negatives). If we had been doing that from the start, we wouldn't have had this Melbourne outbreak, because we wouldn't have had infected people landing on the mainland until after they had recovered.

I wonder why we don't have the states & territories that have been cleared (or all remaining cases are in quarantine) open up their borders with each other, so that it helps tourism and the national economy (jobs) more to offset the slower opening rate of Victoria.

[dirge]

I wonder why we don't have the states & territories that have been cleared (or all remaining cases are in quarantine) open up their borders with each other, so that it helps tourism and the national economy (jobs) more to offset the slower opening rate of Victoria.

Politics, mostly. WA & QLD governments have upcoming elections & are showing themselves to be "putting x state's people first" or whatever phrase they're using. Never mind the fact that (relatively small) tourist spots like Port Douglas are in an economic hole, the masses of votes are in Perth & Brisbane.

SA has started to look at opening borders, because, well, no upcoming election

NT has the added whammy of vulnerable remote communities and less of a tourism driven economy, which could explain their hesitance.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I wonder why we don't have the states & territories that have been cleared (or all remaining cases are in quarantine) open up their borders with each other, so that it helps tourism and the national economy (jobs) more to offset the slower opening rate of Victoria.

The Australian Constitution (section 117 To be precise) provides protection against discrimination on the bases of State of residence. The legal advice the WA Premier has received apparently says that to pick and choose States to re-open borders with is a clear act of discrimination. Whereas if you close borders with ALL States and Territories, there can be a lesser argument for discrimination because its not individualising States, its a blanket approach.

So basically an all-or-nothing is the basis for border closures. Theres more legal history and interpretation behind it and whether this argument holds up is being tested in the High Court with Lord Tosspot (Clive Palmer) taking legal action against the WA government.

[griffin]

Another 30 cases in Victoria yesterday, again outpacing other states, with NSW & QLD having single digit cases yesterday, with most of theirs being from returned travellers.

The politicising of the corona virus in America, resulting in different groups of people believing different things about how bad it really is, and states having a non-uniform approach to dealing with it nationally, has seen their highest ever number of cases yesterday... more than any day during its April peak.
That April peak was thanks mostly to New York City being the main hotspot of the virus, so when they went into lockdown and reduced its daily cases by over 90%, it had a significant impact on the national daily tally. But now most of the other states that re-opened, because they didn't have the same level of infections as New York, are having record infections, to result in the national daily tally going back up to a new record, compared to the total European tally still dropping since its April peak.

The scary thing is that this new record occurred very slowly, and after months of having the virus on the news, it won't be getting as much attention as when NY was having hundreds dying every day all of a sudden.... despite being worse now than it was in April.
With a president who is on record saying that he wants less testing so that they don't record as many cases, as well as not setting an example to his followers to take the virus seriously and mask up & social distance... I doubt we will see the numbers come back down, because a complete lockdown (like NY had to do) is really the only option before a cure or vaccine exists, and too many vocal Americans are against any lockdown or even compulsory wearing of masks, as their freedoms are more important than the health of themselves and others.

SBS news yesterday also noted that new-born babies are dying in developing countries, because the hospitals are running out of the limited resource of pure oxygen, as it is being used up on those infected with the virus, leaving none for the babies (not just premature babies). We already knew that over-full ICUs of covid patients could lead to other people needing ICU beds dying, but this is something new.

[griffin]

Just to copy (and clarify on) this posting - since these are current virus hotspots in Melbourne, please avoid or limit visiting stores in these areas at the moment...


Unconfirmed reports of Hot Spot found at 10 Melbourne burbs:
Broadmeadows
Keilor Downs
Albanvale
Maidstone
Reservior
Sunshine West
Fawkner
Brunswick West
Hallam
Pakenham

Stay away.

[griffin]

In contrast, the other day saw just 2 or 3 active cases left in WA and QLD, who are all in quarantine hotels. I think NSW is close to being the same, but they are still getting returning citizens, which is making their daily case numbers look bad, but most of the new daily numbers have been put into quarantine hotels.


This morning on the ABC news channel, they had a great Covid listing of statistics based on what I've been touching on - the difference between returning cases and domestic cases... and more importantly, how well each state has been doing to keep those returning cases from overseas isolated until they recover so that they don't bring the virus back into a state that has eradicated the virus.

These are the number of days since there was a positive test of the virus that wasn't a returning citizen (the last time someone caught the virus from someone else in the community)...

NT - 83 days
ACT - 75
SA - 66
TAS - 51
WA - 44
QLD - 21
-
NSW - 0
VIC - 0

A few days ago there were still a couple of active cases in WA and QLD from returned citizens, but as long as they remain in isolation (and those states continue to do better with guarding and testing of returning citizens than NSW and VIC), those top six states and territories are for all intents and purposes, virus free (as long as no one brings it across the boarder).
And what do five of those top six states and territories have in common? Aside from the ACT, the other 5 had border closures. Border closures didn't prevent the virus, but reducing the distance you know that you can travel meant that infected people were not going to spread it too far (as seen by past hotspots that end up being localised to one area or business, and then contained). If you know you can travel interstate, people will, and the virus would then travel through the main highways and airlines and then spread out across the country, as it has done in America after allowing people to travel around the country freely again.

The citizens here who obeyed the lockdown restrictions should be commended for making most of Australia virus free... and inspire the two remaining states into realising that containment and eradication is possible, if you are willing to put in the effort for the benefit of your family and friends (especially the elderly and vulnerable).

Unfortunately we have two Trump-wannabees (Clive Palmer and Pauline Hanson) wanting to have the courts force the states to open their borders while the virus is still infecting two cities, for their own benefit (Palmer to help his businesses, and Hanson to earn voter support for the upcoming QLD election). They are too selfish to see how that approach to save jobs and personal freedoms in America is resulting in states shutting down a second time, because it cost lives, cost jobs, and cost voter support.
It's still 3 months away from the end of our Jobkeeper and Jobseeker increased payments, which is plenty of time for the Federal Government to instigate new support measures, or a slow scaling back of the amounts being paid out, based on how our employment levels are by then. Three months is a long time to predict that they will keep it or shut it all down... going back 3 months, no one could have predicted that we would have most of the country in varying stages of re-opening, with most states being virus-free in the community.

Speaking of the US... it is still outpacing other countries with its infection rate, and each day is setting a new record (currently over 45,000 new cases each day, and that's only from people who are tested, or want to be tested).
They are still seeing a fall in daily deaths though, which could be attributed to better experience and techniques dealing with the more serious cases, but probably more from the fact that the states currently having the most cases, are not yet over-whelming their hospitals. In New York they had such a massive surge of admissions, many people were dying because there was not enough bed and equipment to cover everyone. Currently though, they are having the same number of cases of new infections, but it is spread out among 20-30 states and more hospitals, so more people can be treated, and less of the preventable deaths are occurring. At least, so far... but a couple states are close to hospital capacity, and as more hit that level, more people will die, who could have been saved if they had kept the domestic infection rate down.

Tomorrow, the global stats will be 10 million (known) infected, and 1/2 million (known) dead from the virus. That's 1 out of every 20 people known to be infected, will die. And that's with most infections being in 1st world countries so far, with advanced medicines and hospitals. Expect the rate to be 1 out of every 10 people or worse as it makes its way through 3rd world countries and war zones.
At that high rate of guaranteed death, it is NOT just another flu virus, as the deniers and "fake news" supporters will claim.

[griffin]

Looks like the Melbourne outbreak has already spread to Darwin and possibly Brisbane.
A Darwin person returned to Australian in Melbourne and spent 2 weeks in quarantine, but before they could return to Darwin they spent 2 days in one of the hotpot suburbs with family waiting for their flight on Monday. And it wasn't a direct flight... they flew to Brisbane first and changed flights to Darwin and only got tested a day later because they had symptoms.
It means that there could be a lot of other people flying out of Melbourne in the last 2 weeks who don't have symptoms but were infected and taking it to other states.

Politicians and big business owners complaining about border restrictions ruining the national economy, but Melbourne is an example of what will happen to the national economy if borders are opened and the virus spreads to every state in a few weeks (like in America). At the moment other states are at least half open, which is better than total national lockdown from a flare-up, due to a state or federal government (or billionaire) claiming that the country would be better off with a month of open borders before a return to total lockdown (like those American states that reopened too early). Our government doesn't have an endless supply of welfare money as we will have to pay it all back in taxes... and a lot of people are too exhausted from just 3 months of restrictions, another 6 months would be unbearable.

[shockNwave]

Thankfully I'm not living in a lockdown zone and thankfully the places where I'll be shopping for TFs this weekend are not locked down.

On another note, I bet the security firms working the infected hotels are bikie owned. The security industry is infiltrated by such scum.

[griffin]

Another of around 70 cases in Victoria (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-05/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-latest-melbourne/12422616#live-blog-post-1190705718).
As bad as those numbers are, on the up side at least they are fairly steady numbers for the last five days... and not rapidly increasing like they have been in various states of America at the same time (some states have doubled their daily cases in just a week or two). Jumping from 20-30 cases a day last week to 60-70 this week, the rapid rollout of testing and travel restrictions (interstate and intersuburb), hopefully that is what has helped put a cap on the daily numbers, as that doubling in a week in Victoria could have been another doubling by today to over 100 new cases. (although, the Victorian government page says there were just over 100, compared to 67 on the National page... it's sometimes hard to know for sure what the actual numbers are)

Unfortunately we are seeing an increase in hospitalisations as the daily case numbers go up (Victoria currently has all but 4 of Australia's cases that are in hospital (https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers)).

[griffin]

I guess I spoke too soon, as the number of new cases yesterday was about 120, and Saturday's number of about 100 was the real number.... so two of the last three days jumped up to over 100, as I had feared it would if the virus was spreading uncontrolled (two weeks of doubling of numbers, like when the virus first arrived in Australia).

Travel between NSW and VIC will now be restricted, with the border closing tomorrow night, which comes into line with the rest of the country that have already limited travel to and from Victoria.
It's a shame that this was a decision being taken by Victoria to consolidate resources and limit the spread to other states, and not something chased up by the NSW premier or prime minister (they have agreed to support it, but have spent weeks refusing to do it, and frequently chastising other states for doing it and not re-opening). It's a bit like someone wearing a mask to protect others, not just to protect themselves from others. Victoria is "wearing a mask" to limit the spread to NSW, because NSW doesn't want to wear one.


We just need to believe that the success we had in eliminating the "community spread" of the virus in all of the other states, can happen in Victoria if the people are determined and strong enough to go through a short, tough time. And it is going to be tough for people affected in Melbourne, seeing people in other states (on tv and on social media) that have been virus free for 2-3 months returning to normal.. and us non-Victorians need to do whatever we can to help and support them.

[1AZRAEL1]

Some fool jumped on a train from Victoria to NSW knowing they had been tested and had to isolate, but decided to travel. As dumb as it gets.

[G1Optimal]

Some fool jumped on a train from Victoria to NSW knowing they had been tested and had to isolate, but decided to travel. As dumb as it gets.

Turns out it was someone from rural nsw
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20200705_00.aspx

A passenger tested for COVID-19 after arriving in Sydney by train on Saturday morning has returned a negative result. This person was a NSW resident who got on the XPT train in regional NSW, not Victoria, and then self-presented with influenza like illness at Central Station.

Or am i talking about another person

[DELTAprime]

Apparently the Victorian bassed V8 Supercars teams are going to be racing to the NSW border to try and get over into NSW before midnight. Sport before people's health I guess.

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/supercars-teams-preparing-border-run/4826558/?utm_source=home-page-widget&utm_medium=widget&utm_campaign=widget-6

[1AZRAEL1]

Turns out it was someone from rural nsw
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20200705_00.aspx


Or am i talking about another person

Different cases.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/authorities-at-sydney-train-station-intercept-traveller-from-victoria-with-covid-symptoms-c-1140192


On Wednesday a woman was intercepted by health authorities, also at Sydney’s Central Station, after arriving from Melbourne. She had travelled to Sydney despite showing symptoms of the virus and had also failed to wait to receive her pending test results.

[griffin]

It's a no-win situation though... if they make the closures and lockdowns take effect immediately it catches out people who need to be prepared for it, but if they make the closures and lockdowns take effect in a day or two it gives people time to travel to areas knowing that they are infected and would be stopped.

[Autocon]

What about the towns that split between both boarders.

[griffin]

There are calls to have the road closures outside the border towns... but on which side? Since this looks to be NSW enforcing the border closures, they have no jurisdiction on the Victorian side of the border town, and if they close the roads on the NSW side of the border town, they would be restricting the travel of their own people, based on the possibility that they are continuing to mingle with Victorians who could be infected, they would need to be quarantined for 2 weeks if they wanted to travel further into their own state.


It's a shame that this was a decision being taken by Victoria to consolidate resources and limit the spread to other states, and not something chased up by the NSW premier or prime minister (they have agreed to support it, but have spent weeks refusing to do it, and frequently chastising other states for doing it and not re-opening). It's a bit like someone wearing a mask to protect others, not just to protect themselves from others. Victoria is "wearing a mask" to limit the spread to NSW, because NSW doesn't want to wear one.

This comment of mine was based on the press conference yesterday of the Victorian premier actually stating that he was instigating the closure of the border with NSW, and that he was getting support from the NSW premier and the prime minister.
That appears to be wrong.
At least according to today's news, and the NSW premier, who is saying that she is the one closing the border to Victoria, due to most of the virus numbers being "community spread" and that was too much of a risk to her state.
Soooo.... it was okay to be constantly demand QLD to open its border to NSW when there were still community spread cases of the virus in NSW, but now when it is another state with community spread cases, she wants her state protected. A bit of a hypocrite there, not caring about other states trying to protect themselves from her state when they were one of the hotspots (by publicly accusing them of being selfish against the national interest, hoping to gain support from NSW voters who may have state rivalries to other states).


I didn't realise that we had such massive "American styled" public housing buildings in Australia, cramming in thousands of people of lower socio-economic demographics, with quite a few immigrants who are yet to learn english. (we don't have public housing buildings of that massive size in Brisbane, and unless Sydney has them, no other city in Australia thought it was a good idea to densely cram thousands of people of low economic standing, into one massive building) If the migrant numbers are as high as the media are claiming, it's a contemporary example of the classic tale of Babylon, in which there was no common language by all of the people, so the community collapsed before it could adapt to the language barrier.
As one of the medical people had commented on the news yesterday, these towers of thousands of people in cramped conditions are like vertical cruise-ships, and just like in New York, once the virus entered the building, it was going to spread like wildfire.


I'm beginning to think that the severity of symptoms could be based on the number of times you come into contact with the virus... so if you only pick up one dose or particle of the virus, your body has a better chance to suppress it with all of your immune system tackling it before it can multiply too much and be too contagious to others. However, if you are in an environment of constant exposure to the virus (like in a densely packed environment with multiple infected people, eg. New York, prisons, nursing homes, high density & low income residential towers), and your body's immune system has to tackle multiple virus particles within your body at the same time, which can overwhelm the body and replicate, making you more contagious and more likely symptomatic and need hospitalisation.
It could help explain how the American case numbers are at record highs, but their death rate is still falling... as the virus is increasing in parts of their country that are significantly less densely packed than New York, which is where most deaths occurred in the first couple of months.

[1AZRAEL1]

Gladys is an absolute hypocrite. She's proven that on many occasions.

[griffin]

191 cases in Victoria yesterday... so it is definitely spreading freely like before.

As people are rushing to get into NSW before the border closes, apparently there were at least 2 cases found in Albury (on the NSW side of the border), that are being re-tested.
And there is potential carrier in Newcastle, who was a returned traveller who did the 14 day quarantine in Sydney when he arrived, but since he tested negative on day 10, he was allowed to leave. When he started getting symptoms a few days later while in Newcastle, he tested positive. That's now several days of travelling from one major city to another, and interacting with other people. So either the day-10 test was a false negative (which happens), or this person caught the virus from someone else in the quarantine hotel in the final few days who was infected, and wasn't re-tested at the time of leaving.


On the plus side, with all states now closing their borders to Victoria until the virus is re-contained, the rest of the country can re-open up to each other, to stimulate the economy with tourism (one of the biggest direct and indirect employment industries)... and NZ has even noted that it could open up a non-quarantine "bubble" with all but Victoria, as soon as September. (which we may desperately need, if the federal government cuts off, or heavily winds back, the jobkeeper program in 3 months time)

[1AZRAEL1]

I have a cruise booked for November to NZ. Will be interesting to see if not only the borders open up to do so, but if P&O will go ahead with it.

[DaptoDog]

I have a cruise booked for November to NZ. Will be interesting to see if not only the borders open up to do so, but if P&O will go ahead with it.

You couldn't pay me to get on a cruise ship given all that has happened. Assume you can't get your money back?

[1AZRAEL1]

You couldn't pay me to get on a cruise ship given all that has happened. Assume you can't get your money back?

Could, but they'll take a cut, and take ages afaik. I could take credit with a bonus, to use at a later date. Will be playing it by ear as it draws closer.

[griffin]

134 new cases from yesterday for Victoria... down a fair bit from yesterday, but this is just a one-off number that may not yet be a trend back down. They may have just been focussing most of their testing on known cluster areas that were already targeted in the last few days, which had already captured most of the new cases there... and it can take a week for new clusters or outbreaks in new areas to start showing up and then be targeted with testing.

Melbourne is now back into the type of lockdown they had in April when the virus first hit... which for some it never ended, so this is like the fourth month of disruptions or isolation. :(

[griffin]

Edit - it seems that jetstar had a flight from Melbourne to Sydney last night, that allowed its passengers to leave the plane and airport without any testing or quarantining of anyone positive (or having them self-isolate as a precaution).
The news report says there were about 50 people on the plane, and it was still a few hours before the NSW-VIC border closed... but considering how much is at stake at the moment, and the impending closure of the borders, it's like the Ruby Princess cruise-ship all over again, with NSW Health not screening a vessel from a known hotspot.

From yesterday's cases announced today - another 2 infected people inside NSW that aren't returned travellers (one was from Melbourne), and 3 in the ACT (traced back to one person from Melbourne)... maybe the containment lines were just a little too late to prevent infected people travelling interstate.

And now the NSW premier is telling her residents not to travel to any border towns. A scrambling effort that is now probably too late, when she could have had the borders limiting and screening travel between the two states for the last few months like other states... back when she kept saying that border closures are wrong and stupid.


(on a side note, it was disappointing but not surprising, that the prime minister followed the example of trump and used the virus update press conference today to talk up a couple of coalition policies before taking questions... so TV channels had to stay on him so that they didn't miss the Q&A on the virus)

[griffin]

165 new cases in VIC from yesterday.

The constantly changing status of the borders is really difficult to keep up with, particularly if you are planning ahead to travel interstate, or need to.

Tomorrow, QLD is supposed to be opening its border up to every state except Victoria.

Tasmania and South Australia are also closing off access to Victoria for the foreseeable future. I think NT and WA are also open to everyone except Victoria now, but I'm not sure without spending some time looking into it.

This site has links to each state's covid-19 info page (https://www.interstatequarantine.org.au/state-and-territory-border-closures/), so if you needing to find out and aren't sure, start there.

[Ralph Wiggum]

WA is very easy to remember. Nobody is welcome. And there is no timeframe now as to when this will change.

[griffin]

The numbers from the last two days were both over 200 on each day (288 and 216)... and now at least 3 cases in Albury, and 2 cases in the south of Sydney that is suspected of being from some travellers from Melbourne before the borders closed. Hopefully they didn't interact with too many people before they were tested... but it just takes one asymptomatic person they spread it to, to spread it around for a couple weeks without knowing that they were infected.
One of the American military people in Darwin has tested positive, but hopefully those people are isolated like any other foreign arrival.

It is being recommended that people in Melbourne should try to wear a mask or scarf across their face when out in public. (just don't wear a loose scarf and constantly be adjusting it back up every time it slips down off your face, like someone I saw in the background of a news report yesterday, because you are touching your face or the fabric near your nose and mouth with your hands, which are touching other things and people)

It's going to be another hard slog, but if everyone follows the restriction level in their area/state, we won't be faced with a high death rate like Sweden (no restrictions to just let the virus infect everyone to build a herd immunity), or be faced with everything shutting down again with lots more people out of work like in America (a number of states that rushed to re-open to heed the call of their president and his protesters, are now completely shut down for a lot longer, which will kill off more businesses than if they had waited until the virus was under control the first time, like most states here, benefiting from being allowed back open with minimal risk of shutting down again if we stay vigilant).


After 3 months of the government paying for the 14 days of hotel quarantine, any new arrivals now have to pay for it. I guess 3 months was more than enough time for people who needed to return home, could get on a flight back home, after it was announced in March that our borders would be closed and people should return home as soon as possible. I think if someone can prove that it has taken 3 months to secure seats on the limited number of flights around the world to get back from a remote location, should still have it paid by the government, but if people have chosen to stay where they are and just travel back at a later date by choice, then that seems fair to not be paid for by the taxpayers.

Arizona in America is now the most infected place in America (and possibly the world), disproving the theory that warmer weather will prevent the virus spreading or surviving (early on it was said that it couldn't survive in environments above 27 degrees... but not only is the human body above that temperature, but Arizona has been in the middle of summer now, with temperatures at 35-45 degrees for at least a month).
People in Arizona are testing positive at a rate of over 30%. One in every three people taking a test has the virus. That compares to here (https://www.health.gov.au/resources/total-covid-19-tests-conducted-and-results), of one in every 300 people taking a test being positive (that doesn't mean that 1 in every 300 people in the country have the virus, as most tests are only taken of people who are infected with symptoms and people suspected of being infected - we have done just under 3 million tests in Australia, which doesn't mean 3 million people being tested, as a lot of people get tested multiple times if infected or in hotspot areas).

Could you imagine the news programs here if we had 100 times more cases at the rate of Arizona. Since the virus arrived, our main media have been competing with each other to have the most intense coverage of the virus outbreak here, and that was with Australia never going above 469 cases in a single day... imagine if we had the same proportion as America or Arizona with 5,000 to 10,000 new cases in a single day. We would be calling for the immediate resignation of our federal and state leaders and a complete shutdown of everything, just to do the more responsible thing of putting lives before profit.
A couple of reasons why Arizona is so bad (and makes it a good example for the rest of the world to taken notes on what not to do), is that it takes about 8 days before test results to be sent back to people (which means they were spreading it for a week while waiting to know if they were infected)... and the state government being very pro-trump, which meant limited or no restrictions to prevent the spread before it came to the state, and no coordinated effort for testing which is why it takes about a week to get results, compared to a number of hours to 2 days in most other countries. The three worst states for cases in America now are run by governors who are trump's biggest supporters, so either don't believe they need to do anything to match his lead, or don't want to do anything that opposes his message of not needing to take precautions like preventing public groups and wearing masks.
Just about every day has a new record of new cases, up to 65,000 in one day.
Children (under 20) are still very very rare to show symptoms, but the percentage is not zero, so the more cases grow in America, the more children are being hospitalised and dying... and the president is pressuring states to send kids back to school, suggesting that covid funding may be tied to re-opening schools that the states pay for.
How does it look, having a 1st world country with a worse infection rate than 3rd world countries.
And the western media doesn't even report on the virus in 3rd world countries... so we might not even know how bad it is getting there.

[griffin]

With international travel unlikely to return to pre-virus levels for at least 2-4 years AFTER a vaccine is distributed across the globe (which itself would take a couple of years to produce and administer), a number of international airlines who had those giant double-decker A-380 planes, are retiring them, after little more than a decade of operation.
QANTAS got their first one in September 2008, and I believe they were one of the first airlines to get them, and not many airlines ended up buying them due to the GFC that hit at that time, so I imagine a lot of the US and European airlines had to cancel their orders at the time, which is why we didn't see as many of them as was expected, as they were said to be the replacement for the 747. I remember many airports having to upgrade to cater to the larger A380, as their runways or gates/skybridges weren't able to accommodate them.

With the virus preventing almost all international travel, and with smaller fuel-efficient aircraft now available from Boeing and Airbus, I would imagine that the A380 is unlikely to be seen in the skies again, because by the time there are passenger numbers to fill them, airlines would have replaced their older planes with the more economical planes that can fly further.

I don't think I would have ever been able to afford (or want to) pay for a first class flight across to the other side of the world, but I'd always dreamed about one day being able to fly in the top level of an A380 or 747.
As someone who has done a fair bit of international travel thanks to botcon, I'm a bit nostalgic about the big iconic aircraft that I've been on over the last few years... but I guess they'll just be something that lives in our memories and images, like the concord. I doubt there would be too many aircraft museums around the world wanting to waste a lot of space for one of these, just for a few people a year to look at in person.



Today, after about 50 years of QANTAS using Boeing 747 planes, they were officially retired from service, with a special commemorative flight around the skies of Sydney.

Nothing lasts for ever, but to me it was the type of plane I would fly to America for most of my 17 trips over there (at least 30 flights in total), and I just can't imagine seeing any other red-tailed QANTAS plane flying me there. The 747 was the iconic long-haul workhorse of QANTAS that most foreigners would recognise as a QANTAS plane, because it was the type of plane that would be seen with the red kangaroo tail in most countries outside of the nearby Asian region.
I'm sad that I'll never fly one again, as they have a completely different feel to them to other planes, because they had a wider body, so it felt less cramped or claustrophobic. It's overall size and the central galley blocks and toilet blocks, meant that it had the look of compartments, to break up the large economy cabin, compared to a more narrower body that has you looking over the entire Economy section, to remind you that you are stuck in an enclosed space with hundreds of people.
I also love the feeling you get of the bigger, heavier aircraft when it takes off and lands... it just feels so powerful and massive, which I don't feel in their other aircraft.

[griffin]

21 cases now found from a location in the south of Sydney, and it was a very public place from 9 days ago... which means it will be spreading faster than it can be tracked.
It is suspected to be from someone in Victoria, due to it being in a transit corridor... so the original infected person could have been travelling anywhere.

I guess it looks like NSW will be locking down again soon, and the QLD premier will no doubt want to close our border again, as she was pretty strict on the closure last time (which only opened 3 days ago). If the NSW infections came from interstate travellers from Victoria, other states will be wanting to prevent that happening to them... and even a partially open border is risky, as there were already about a hundred people trying to sneak into QLD from Victoria, by claiming that they weren't from Victoria. That sort of blind selfish stupidity is probably how it spread to NSW.
It only took two weeks for Victoria to go back into lockdown after the virus spike started, so those people wanting a rushed return to open borders and businesses, are just making sure everything closes back down a few weeks later.


My furniture warehouse workplace ended up offloading half of its staff, up from about 20% that I was first being told. Two months ago they were looking at the option of having the place closed one day a week, and the staff would end up with a 20% pay-cut from that missing day each week... so I don't know why they didn't use that option first, because they would be cutting costs and keep all of the jobkeeper money from the government. This option of cutting half of the staff may have saved them a fair bit of money, but now they have lost tens of thousands of dollars of "revenue" each week that they are no longer getting from the government, from all of those people they let go that the government is no longer paying the company to keep.
I must be missing something there. Surely cost cutting that ends up cutting their operating revenue significantly when they already have sluggish sales, would be a more dangerous thing to do for the business. Because if their cash-flow takes a big hit all of sudden like this, it will make their budgets outlays look really red all of a sudden, and areas of the business, or creditors, that require regular payments could then suffer.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

My furniture warehouse workplace ended up offloading half of its staff, up from about 20% that I was first being told. Two months ago they were looking at the option of having the place closed one day a week, and the staff would end up with a 20% pay-cut from that missing day each week... so I don't know why they didn't use that option first, because they would be cutting costs and keep all of the jobkeeper money from the government. This option of cutting half of the staff may have saved them a fair bit of money, but now they have lost tens of thousands of dollars of "revenue" each week that they are no longer getting from the government, from all of those people they let go that the government is no longer paying the company to keep.
I must be missing something there. Surely cost cutting that ends up cutting their operating revenue significantly when they already have sluggish sales, would be a more dangerous thing to do for the business. Because if their cash-flow takes a big hit all of sudden like this, it will make their budgets outlays look really red all of a sudden, and areas of the business, or creditors, that require regular payments could then suffer.Possibly related to minimising leave/etc payouts for if/when they lay off large numbers/a solid percentage of staff after the stimulus period ends? I've read about a few businesses who don't feel they'll be able to pay out accumulated leave/etc. when they fold so they're just closing up shop early.

Pretty terrible for the poor laid-off staff though. :(

[griffin]

Quick thought from something I was reading about today - with America back into a mostly lockdown pattern in most states, and likely to be shut down even more as the infection rate is still not slowing from the current restrictions... I wonder if cinema movies that were pushed back several months because of the April-May lockdown, will be delayed again, or will other countries that are able to open cinemas, be allowed to start screening them (America is the primary revenue market for cinema movies, so if they have to postpone or release more of the cinema movies online through paid streaming services, my guess is that they wouldn't bother allowing other countries see them in cinemas, because their box office takings would be insignificant).
For example, the film The New Mutants (which was already delayed 2 years), was pushed back from April to August because of the virus shutting down cinemas in America. I really don't see too many states in America allowing indoor venues like cinemas operating in a month's time, with almost all states recording increases in virus cases. And maybe Warner Bros is thinking the same thing, as they had pushed back their Wonder Woman movie from June 5th to August 14 due to Covid, and then a couple weeks ago it was pushed back further, to October 5th. And that's a big budget film that needs cinemas across the US to be operating to make back its money.
If we have cinemas operating here in the next few months, or at least in most states, I wonder if movie studios would consider releasing the movies here, because any cinemas or drive-ins that are currently operating here, are having to play older movies... so even if the cinemas can operate here, the American movie companies may not allow anything new to screen at them, forcing them to run at a loss or shut down without the new blockbuster movies to bring in the crowds.



Meanwhile, it's getting worse for NSW... and there are now some winding back of the recently lifted restrictions. (unlike in most other countries that had restrictions lifted while the virus was still active in the community, which just allowed it to spread again, most of the Australian states were justified in lifting restrictions, because all of the new cases for 1 to 3 months in WA, SA, TAS, NT, QLD and ACT were foreign arrivals who were put into quarantine... the outbreak we are now facing was entirely avoidable if the Victorian government had been more careful with it security protocols at the quarantine hotels - the rest of the country is now going to suffer for that mistake, as borders are going to close again, businesses will be told to close up again, and any chance of a trans-tasman bubble with New Zealand in September to help tourism is now impossible)

Unfortunately, with QLD only just 4 days into having it's borders back open with NSW, it has decided to do what NSW did with Victoria, and keep allowing people into the state if they claim that they aren't from an infected zone. Well, that didn't work so well for NSW, as they took too long to completely close the border, and it allowed people to spread the virus into a second state (it is never a good idea to just ask people to stay at home and not travel if they were from a hotzone, as there would always be those who don't care or don't take the situation seriously and do whatever they want... particularly if it is not a requirement, with significant penalties).

QLD now has a range of penalties from $4000 to 6 months in jail if someone was found to be from an exclusion zone and didn't declare it... but there will still be people who find a way around it, and as seen in the Sydney outbreak, it only takes one person contaminating a high-traffic location like a hotel, to spread it everywhere (like an airport, just not as fast).

One of the news programs last night when talking about the human trials that started in QLD yesterday (I think it might have been on The Project), claimed that there were new results from an ongoing study of infected people in Europe who have recovered from the virus, suggesting that only 17% of people still had the virus anti-bodies in their system after 3 or 4 months. If that is actually true, or close to it, it will not be possible to gain a "herd immunity" (having most people catch the virus, recover or die, and then it is over more quickly - which is the theory that Sweden is using, sacrificing a lot of lives in the belief that the virus will die out if enough people have been infected and recover).
It also means that a vaccine will be virtually useless, if the anti-bodies it creates in the people who get it, don't stay active for more than a month in over half of the people.
(best estimates of a vaccine being ready for general use is still at about middle of next year (12 months), with 6 months being the absolute earliest if everything goes right with the trials, and the test subjects don't catch the virus & there are no major side-effects... and even then, the rollout of the vaccine will take a few months as each batch is manufactured and distributed)

Hopefully we hear more on "long term" studies of people who have recovered, to see if people are indeed vulnerable to Covid several months later, and see if any people catch it a second or third time by the end of the year. If it does happen, it might take a while to know for sure, because most people have no symptoms, so they might develop symptoms the second or third time, and not know that they've already caught it before.

That would then be the worst case scenario (even if there is a vaccine), if people can catch it more than once, as it would never be able to be eradicated globally... and isolated countries like Australia would have to start adopting an eradication program, to eliminate the virus (which we had pretty much done in all states before the outbreak in Victoria occurred from the breach in security at a quarantine hotel). Once eliminated, the country would then need to have all arriving people be isolated in quarantine (preferably on an offshore Australian territory to prevent future breaches), and rebuild our economy away from international tourism and education, as inbound arrivals would stay.
That's my thinking at least.