Fake Kibble

[jaydisc]

What is fake kibble?

Fake kibble is when you think you see part of a bot's alt mode in bot mode, but that part doesn't actually form the part of the alt mode it appears to.

Great examples:

Classics Voyager Prime - his grill in robot mode DOES NOT become the grill in alt mode.
Universe Silverbolt - On his shoulders there are little wings that aren't wings in alt mode.
Sentinel Prime - I'm pretty sure his chest is to become the front end of the car. It doesn't.
Animated Deluxe Bumblebee - his chest in robot mode is meant to look like the roof of his alt mode. It isn't. (just pointed out to me by Stompy)

I think it's most pervasive in situations where a toy is meant to match a fictional representation. It's also pervasive in Animated due to the extreme rounded styling of the robot modes.

Is it a cheap tactic?
Does it bother you?
Can you point out any others?

[Golden Phoenix]

I think it is a case by case judgement.
Universe Silverbolt is just sheer laziness, but that is true of the whole figure.
Sentinal Prime on the otherhand had to be because of the completely different shapes his chest and the hood of the plough have. It would have been a nightmare, especially for a deluxe size.

[Eruntalon]

McDonalds Animated Ratchet - his feet and chest are both windshields. I'm sure there are other examples of this especially in cheaper made toys such as these and other lines, but I'm not as privy with Animated as other series'.

[TheDirtyDigger]

"Anti-kibble"

There is a related phenomenon with no generally accepted name, in which a toy's robot mode has obvious elements of its alternate mode showing (usually in the chest area), which are not in fact part of its altmode. The original example of this is Powermaster Optimus Prime, who had the front windshield and grill of a semi-cab on his chest...which had no relation at all to his semi-cab mode. The false truck windows on the chest also showed up on Laser Optimus Prime and his redeco, Scourge, whose chests are on the underside of the truck in vehicle mode. Another example is the T-rex face on the chest of Transmetal Megatron from Beast Wars, which is not the same part as his actual T-rex face. A particularly inelegant example would be the Legends-class toy for Jazz from the 2007 movie, whose robot mode "bumper" chest ends up on his roof in vehicle mode.

Its use is even seen in Transformers Animated: Bumblebee has a false roof on his chest. A more notable case is Ratchet: He has false ambulance sides on his shoulder kibble (kibble AND anti-kibble). Sentinel Prime has an even more confusing example. His robot mode chest is a flat, round structure designed to be evocative of his much squarer alt-mode hood (which is his robot mode back).

:)

[lcz128]

It's also present in the Superlink/Energon Wheeljack/Downshift mold. Specifically used to emulate G1 Wheeljack's chest (there's a blue painted 'window' which is meant to be the glass for the windscreen)

Personally if it evokes a particular character and it's IMPOSSIBLE (not lazy, but rather impossible) to have it work out, I'm all for it-
Otherwise, I would personally prefer for kibble to be real kibble as opposed to antikibble. That said, it sometimes works out really well...others.. not so!

[Paulbot]

Fake kibble doesn't bother me. For the Animated toys I think it's a very clever way to capture the look of the cartoon robots.

A classic example of fake kibble is Powermaster Optimus: for his regular robot mode is whole torso is a fake truck front.

Masterpiece Prime did the realistic truck grill vs cartoon-like robot grill quite nicely.

[Pulse]

Would you classify Jazz's 2nd front-end (http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/40/r_legendsjazz022.jpg) as fake kibble?

[jaydisc]

Absolutely!

[kup]

I can be tolerant of fake kibble but only if it is used in moderation or as a compromise to maintain the character tribute in the design.

For example, Classics Prime maintains that little grill only to maintain the classic look. It is also small and feels more as a 'deco' than molded kibble.

In turn, MP Prime is similar but it bothers me more than Classics Prime because unlike Classics Prime, its not just 'familiar' robot mode detailing its actually mascarading as truckmode kibble with the chrome and size. This feels more like a cheat than Classic Prime's grill.

Another example of tolerable fake kibble is deluxe 08 Movie Bumblebee. He has a number plate molded into his crotch but its not part of the alt mode. It is annoying but I can understand it since they are trying to resemble the Movie character model.

An example awful fake kibble due to lazy design is deluxe Animated Bumblebee. He didn't have to have the fake kibble chest and the stylized proportions are too extreme even by the cartoon standards. The Activator has a more faithful Transformation sequence , is more true to the show character model and doesn't have any cheating! (no fake kibble)

[Gutsman Heavy]

The Activator has a more faithful Transformation sequence

Apparently not

Bumblebee appears to have a fake car roof on his chest in both his toy and on his character model. Not only does Bumblebee transform like his toy in his drawn-out animated transformation sequences, with his legs forming the top of the vehicle and the rest forming the underside, but his "real" windshield is drawn on the back of his legs, just like the toy. Plus the headlights on Bumblebee's feet are upside-down, just like the toy's. However, Bumblebee's vehicle mode stripe doesn't change sides like on the toy. Cheatsy!

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/2/21/Bumblebeeanimatedkibble.jpg


is more true to the show character model

I'm not seeing that at all

http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/45/r_activatorsbumblebee029.jpghttp://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/6/6a/Bumblebeeanimated.jpghttp://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/45/r_bumblebee033.jpg

Looks like the deluxe is much more faithful IMO

[kup]

I disagree, when I look at the Activator in RL next to the deluxe, I find the Activator as a more faithful representation as well as a better toy overall.

[GoktimusPrime]

For me it depends on the toy... but overall on most toys it's a pretty clever way of incorporating kibble that cannot be incorporated into the alt mode. A good example of this is the faux-kibble on Binaltech/Alternators Tracks - the chest is a fake roof/window to make it look like G1 Tracks' chest. It serves no other purpose, but it's a pretty neat touch. It doesn't compromise the toy's integrity IMO so I quite like it.

Then there are other toys with faux-faux-kibble, like Lio Convoy and Big Convoy whose bodies kinda look like G1 Optimus Prime like truck bodies, but really aren't anything of the sort - but is intended to evoke the image of Optimus Prime.
http://pyresdomain.net/TF/BeastBoxArchive/Japanese/Leoconvoy.jpghttp://pinkystudio.hp.infoseek.co.jp/gangu/big_c/BC-03.jpg
Big Convoy even has fake 'roof lights' on the top of his chest!

[Lord_Zed]

I kinda like fake kibble at least on some toys such as the afforementioned MP Prime, Powermaster Prime, Movie Bumblebee and Binaltech Tracks.

Yes it's kinda a cheat, but lets face it in all the old G1 comics and Cartoons the TF's use a bit of morphing magic to transform, it's only from the post USG1 japanese cartoons where the characters transform in a toy acurate fashion. For me Fake Kibble just suggets the Transformation is even more complex than what can be done with a toy, and when I was a kid It was always fun to imagine ways in which the fake kibble would become part of the vehicle mode proper.

Hmm that makes me thing of a question for a new thread.

[Golden Phoenix]

I was re-watching some of the Animated episodes, and I noticed something about Sentinel Prime.
His chest isn't supposed to be the front of his vehicle mode. Sure, it kind of looks like it, but I think it is just supposed to sort of look like it while not actually being it.
I spotted this:
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/jimmey-11/other/kibble.jpghttp://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/files/45/r_sentinelprime065.jpg
If you look at his back, you can see the front and the windshield of his vehicle mode on his back, just like the figure (except for some different colours)

[roller]

so does Combat Hero optimus primes robot mode chest/grill count as fake kibble?

[GoktimusPrime]

I would say yeah. Laser Prime's chest is also sculpted like faux-kibble but has never been officially painted that way (although I've seen customs :)).

Golden Phoenix: Animated Bumblebee's show model also shows faux-kibble from the toy.

"True" kibble
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/2/21/Bumblebeeanimatedkibble.jpg/150px-Bumblebeeanimatedkibble.jpghttp://www.siebertron.com/images/toys/files/45/t_bumblebee044.jpg (http://www.siebertron.com/transformers/toys/animated/bumblebee/1432/1/61/)<--front windscreen kibble on back of legs

"Faux" kibble
http://www.tfw2005.com/resources/attach/4/4/1/8/2/Animated-Bumblebee_1197727988_thumb.jpghttp://www.siebertron.com/images/toys/files/45/t_bumblebee037.jpg<--fake windscreen & roof on chest

[Sky Shadow]

I like fake kibble.

(As another example, Masterpiece Prime and Magnus are full of fake kibblyness from their ribcages down to their crotch regions.)

[STL]

Leader Class GF/Cybertron Optimus Prime comes to mind too but I'm not sure how much of that is fake kibble.

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/toys/cybertron/optimus-prime/579/1/70/

The windows at the back in robot mode? They really aren't the front of the truck but look "like" it in robot mode. It's supposed to be a nod to G1 Prime.

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/toys/cybertron/optimus-prime/579/1/105/

Of course, the grill has to be fake kibble.

[GoktimusPrime]

The windows at the back in robot mode? They really aren't the front of the truck but look "like" it in robot mode. It's supposed to be a nod to G1 Prime.
Yeah, that's 'quasi-faux-kibble' which is what I was talking about with Lio Convoy and Big Convoy. :) Fire Convoy has it too.