MP Thundercracker vers 2

[griffin]

It looks like there might be an official announcement coming of a Japanese Masterpiece Thundercracker using the new MP-52 Starscream mould (due out in June). According to a teaser image (https://news.tfw2005.com/2021/01/07/possible-first-look-at-masterpiece-thundercracker-2-0-426998), it looks like something will be announced or revealed in a few days time (January 14th).
If the colours are accurate on the teaser image, it looks to be following the cartoon colouring with a pale blue, rather than a deeper metallic blue of the orignal toy.

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/news/2021/010801.jpg

[High_Q]

And it's official (https://takaratomymall.jp/shop/g/g4904810172611/), MP-52+ Thundercracker. It's a TT Mall exclusive. Looks nice, but the blue is a bit faint and the neutral mouth expression looks elongated :|

[yoshi594]

And it's official (https://takaratomymall.jp/shop/g/g4904810172611/), MP-52+ Thundercracker. It's a TT Mall exclusive. Looks nice, but the blue is a bit faint and the neutral mouth expression looks elongated :|

exclusive damnnnn

[griffin]

Release date - late September 2021.
Price - 27,500yen (about AU$340-350)

Includes accessories in the images below, plus a display stand.

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/news/2021/011601.jpg

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/news/2021/011602.jpg

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/news/2021/011603.jpg

[griffin]

I find it odd that Thundercracker, a limited edition TTM exclusive, is about 10% cheaper than the mass-released Starscream, which didn't appear to have anything significant extra to have it cost more.
(and no, Hasbro and TakaraTomy never have redecos cheaper just because the first use has factored into it the R&D cost... it is either factored into all planned uses of the mould, or the later uses are an extra bonus for their profit margins)

I also don't like it being a + MP toy. That is going to run into problems later. What is Skywarp going to be? A ++ toy? And what happens when they redeco Starscream into another deco, as it is expected to be? Or Thundercracker & Skywarp into toy colours?
It needs it's own number like the first MP versions, or at the very least, a lettering after the number like the 1.5 versions. These are major first year iconic characters, so they deserve their own MP number.

And why do the MP Seeker jets always have a fold-open nose-cone to reveal the radar that is not something ever seen in the cartoon or comics (that I recall). Even though this mould notes official F-15 trademarks, meaning it must be licensed this time, these are toys for Transformers fans not fighter jet fans (who have much cheaper alternatives that are more accurate to the real thing without robot kibble underneath), so the added gimmick that I don't think has ever been seen in Transformers seems redundant, which I find is a negative element because it adds to the cost of an already expensive toy.

[nalops]

The nose cone opening is something that real F-15s are able to do apparently.

[griffin]

The nose cone opening is something that real F-15s are able to do apparently.

I know that... but that was exactly my point - why include something to make the toy cost more to fans of Transformers, that isn't something actually seen in Transformers (that I'm aware of), but would only interest people (aircraft enthusiasts) who wouldn't buy this toy because of all of the robot kibble under the toy to preventing from looking authentic. If the designers wanted it to be authentic in jet mode by having the opening nosecone, it wouldn't have robot kibble showing.

[Bidoofdude]

$480 is an absolute joke. They know they can get away with charging this much, since no one wanted to miss out on Sunstreaker and Hound. It’s really disappointing.

This is not a special obscure character or a fancy deco, it’s a main cast character from its most iconic year of popularity. This kind of pricing edges out the average collector and is appealing to the whales who’ll drop absolutely any amount of money for any toy remotely like this one.

[High_Q]

... but the blue is a bit faint and the neutral mouth expression looks elongated :|

More official tweets of MP-52+ (https://twitter.com/TF_pr/status/1349914205621800962) shows that he is actually of a deeper blue than i first thought, and the mouth looks better too. It looks amazing and so similar to the cartoon model.

[griffin]

The colouring and minimal detail makes me think of the Robotmasters and PVC figurine versions.

[spiderken17]

At the current prices of MPs i can pretty much say my MP collection is complete. I cannot afford to drop that sort of money on new MPs let alone ones that i already have a version of. While I think a cartoon accurate cast would look cool on the shelf, i cannot spend thousands to get it. Even selling the old versions (for a fraction of the cost of purchase), its just not feasible for me. Its a shame as they are pricing the average collector out of the market.

[Fungal Infection]

It such a shame that the MP line has come to this - pricing most collectors out of the market. I still haven't got Hound after hearing of the quality issues and Optimus V3 and Starscream V3 prices are not justifiable in my opinion. Even general collecting is becoming hard with all the hard to get exclusives. Maybe it's time to call it in ..... :(

[philby]

$480 is an absolute joke. They know they can get away with charging this much, since no one wanted to miss out on Sunstreaker and Hound. It’s really disappointing.



where did you get that price from? griffin' post suggests $350

[nalops]

It's the EB/Zing price https://www.zingpopculture.com.au/product/toys-gadgets/270636-transformers-thundercracker-ver-2-figure

[Tha_Phantom]

Does anyone know if EB gets their pricing from Hasbro AU or they set it themselves? If it's from Hasbro then something needs to change as it's become damaging to the brand when people write off getting an MP altogether based solely on EB's price.

[griffin]

where did you get that price from? griffin' post suggests $350

$350 was the approximate converted price of the toy in Japan.
$480 is what EB/Zing is charging in Australia.

[griffin]

Does anyone know if EB gets their pricing from Hasbro AU or they set it themselves? If it's from Hasbro then something needs to change as it's become damaging to the brand when people write off getting an MP altogether based solely on EB's price.

Wholesalers are not allowed to set prices in Australia by law... but they can give "recommended retail pricing", but most retailers will set their pricing based on their standard margins, often lining up close to the RRP estimate.

I can't really go into any details, but EB prices are based on what Hasbro Australia sells it to them for... and Hasbro Australia is stuck with the price that Hasbro Asia charges them.
I had this whole argument with them several years ago when they were selling the JP Combiner sets at ToysRUs, and the TRU price was double what they could be imported for, which meant that Hasbro Australia were obviously being shafted... because if Hasbro Asia can sell it to Asian retailers for a wholesale price that ends up being on the shelf for half of what it ends up here, then Hasbro Asia is charging one of their own branches at least double what they were charging local retailers that have nothing to do with Hasbro.
This was an argument that took many conversations, as the local branch is not keen to reveal too much about what happens internally... so they won't come out and tell us how much they are being charged, and I can't encourage the local office to rock the boat on how things are done between the Branches of Hsabro, because getting some of these over-priced expensive imports/exclusives here makes it more likely that we will get the cheaper exclusives here (even if those are also over-priced... but if they are hard to get globally like several of the 2020 Hasbro exclusives, getting them here at all is better than resorting to scalper pricing from overseas).

[Trent]

Wholesalers are not allowed to set prices in Australia by law... but they can give "recommended retail pricing", but most retailers will set their pricing based on their standard margins, often lining up close to the RRP estimate.

I can't really go into any details, but EB prices are based on what Hasbro Australia sells it to them for... and Hasbro Australia is stuck with the price that Hasbro Asia charges them.
I had this whole argument with them several years ago when they were selling the JP Combiner sets at ToysRUs, and the TRU price was double what they could be imported for, which meant that Hasbro Australia were obviously being shafted... because if Hasbro Asia can sell it to Asian retailers for a wholesale price that ends up being on the shelf for half of what it ends up here, then Hasbro Asia is charging one of their own branches at least double what they were charging local retailers that have nothing to do with Hasbro.
This was an argument that took many conversations, as the local branch is not keen to reveal too much about what happens internally... so they won't come out and tell us how much they are being charged, and I can't encourage the local office to rock the boat on how things are done between the Branches of Hsabro, because getting some of these over-priced expensive imports/exclusives here makes it more likely that we will get the cheaper exclusives here (even if those are also over-priced... but if they are hard to get globally like several of the 2020 Hasbro exclusives, getting them here at all is better than resorting to scalper pricing from overseas).

Yeah but at $480, they might as well not have it at all. Hasbro would be better off not bothering because EB/Zing won’t be interested in getting in future stuff because it they’ll think it doesn’t sell.

[nalops]

EB pricing is all very strange considering their Unicron price is/was one of the best in the world. Hope they're able to rectify. Then again, they seem to only order enough to cover pre-orders so they don't really lose money by having these not sell.

[Magnus]

I also don't like it being a + MP toy. That is going to run into problems later. What is Skywarp going to be? A ++ toy? And what happens when they redeco Starscream into another deco, as it is expected to be? Or Thundercracker & Skywarp into toy colours?
It needs it's own number like the first MP versions, or at the very least, a lettering after the number like the 1.5 versions. These are major first year iconic characters, so they deserve their own MP number.

The numbering does seem odd. I wonder if the MP11 derivatives were made exclusives- and this practice is continuing here - because the characters didn't sell as well as general releases the first time around with the original MP3 mould. It's easy to imagine most people would just want Starscream, leaving the colour derivatives to completists.


And why do the MP Seeker jets always have a fold-open nose-cone to reveal the radar that is not something ever seen in the cartoon or comics (that I recall). Even though this mould notes official F-15 trademarks, meaning it must be licensed this time, these are toys for Transformers fans not fighter jet fans (who have much cheaper alternatives that are more accurate to the real thing without robot kibble underneath), so the added gimmick that I don't think has ever been seen in Transformers seems redundant, which I find is a negative element because it adds to the cost of an already expensive toy.


I know that... but that was exactly my point - why include something to make the toy cost more to fans of Transformers, that isn't something actually seen in Transformers (that I'm aware of), but would only interest people (aircraft enthusiasts) who wouldn't buy this toy because of all of the robot kibble under the toy to preventing from looking authentic. If the designers wanted it to be authentic in jet mode by having the opening nosecone, it wouldn't have robot kibble showing.

The original MP3 Starscream had the opening radome, as Shonji Kawamori wanted to make a really good, highly detailed F-15. The MP11 version kept it because a lot of the base moulding from MP3 was still present. It might feel like a step backwards to not include the opening radome on MP52, and it doesn't look like a particularly intricate or complex piece of engineering to include, so it's hard to imagine that it would be substantially driving up the price.

The answer to this question was hinted at in the Figure King interview for MP39 (Sunstreaker): (https://news.tfw2005.com/2017/05/23/takara-mp-39-masterpiece-clear-pictures-designer-team-interview-translation-339374)


The popularity of MP 12 Lambor was a success amongst not only Transformers fans but also car enthusiasts. We decided we could not completely ignore the desires and wishes of the car enthusiasts. I wanted to present Sunstreaker as a product that Countach fans would recognize while taking advantage of his animation styling.

Sunstreaker had some great features in vehicle mode, namely working scissor doors and pop-up headlights, and including these details really sells the idea of a high quality, detailed, authentic replica of a car.

I have no doubt that there are aircraft enthusiasts who would appreciate the sort of authentic details of a real plane that were included on MP3/MP11, so why not keep that sort of thing for MP52? Is it any different to the high degree of detail we saw on Binaltech/Alternators figures, or the details on other Masterpiece figures like the Alitalia livery on Wheeljack and the aforementioned doors and headlights on Sunstreaker?

[Tha_Phantom]

Wholesalers are not allowed to set prices in Australia by law... but they can give "recommended retail pricing", but most retailers will set their pricing based on their standard margins, often lining up close to the RRP estimate.

I can't really go into any details, but EB prices are based on what Hasbro Australia sells it to them for... and Hasbro Australia is stuck with the price that Hasbro Asia charges them.
I had this whole argument with them several years ago when they were selling the JP Combiner sets at ToysRUs, and the TRU price was double what they could be imported for, which meant that Hasbro Australia were obviously being shafted... because if Hasbro Asia can sell it to Asian retailers for a wholesale price that ends up being on the shelf for half of what it ends up here, then Hasbro Asia is charging one of their own branches at least double what they were charging local retailers that have nothing to do with Hasbro.
This was an argument that took many conversations, as the local branch is not keen to reveal too much about what happens internally... so they won't come out and tell us how much they are being charged, and I can't encourage the local office to rock the boat on how things are done between the Branches of Hsabro, because getting some of these over-priced expensive imports/exclusives here makes it more likely that we will get the cheaper exclusives here (even if those are also over-priced... but if they are hard to get globally like several of the 2020 Hasbro exclusives, getting them here at all is better than resorting to scalper pricing from overseas).

Thank you for clearing that up, and I appreciate your efforts in the past then. Guess it is what it is unfortunately.



Sunstreaker had some great features in vehicle mode, namely working scissor doors and pop-up headlights, and including these details really sells the idea of a high quality, detailed, authentic replica of a car.

I have no doubt that there are aircraft enthusiasts who would appreciate the sort of authentic details of a real plane that were included on MP3/MP11, so why not keep that sort of thing for MP52? Is it any different to the high degree of detail we saw on Binaltech/Alternators figures, or the details on other Masterpiece figures like the Alitalia livery on Wheeljack and the aforementioned doors and headlights on Sunstreaker?

Although not an aircraft enthusiast myself, I did notice a surprising number of fans who were upset that Studio Series Blitzwing was the "wrong jet." The radar dish on the seekers don't bug me either way, but I did enjoy the aforementioned scissor doors and pop up lights on Sunstreaker, so if those features make certain fans happy then so be it.

[Trent]

The numbering does seem odd. I wonder if the MP11 derivatives were made exclusives- and this practice is continuing here - because the characters didn't sell as well as general releases the first time around with the original MP3 mould. It's easy to imagine most people would just want Starscream, leaving the colour derivatives to completists.





The original MP3 Starscream had the opening radome, as Shonji Kawamori wanted to make a really good, highly detailed F-15. The MP11 version kept it because a lot of the base moulding from MP3 was still present. It might feel like a step backwards to not include the opening radome on MP52, and it doesn't look like a particularly intricate or complex piece of engineering to include, so it's hard to imagine that it would be substantially driving up the price.

The answer to this question was hinted at in the Figure King interview for MP39 (Sunstreaker): (https://news.tfw2005.com/2017/05/23/takara-mp-39-masterpiece-clear-pictures-designer-team-interview-translation-339374)



Sunstreaker had some great features in vehicle mode, namely working scissor doors and pop-up headlights, and including these details really sells the idea of a high quality, detailed, authentic replica of a car.

I have no doubt that there are aircraft enthusiasts who would appreciate the sort of authentic details of a real plane that were included on MP3/MP11, so why not keep that sort of thing for MP52? Is it any different to the high degree of detail we saw on Binaltech/Alternators figures, or the details on other Masterpiece figures like the Alitalia livery on Wheeljack and the aforementioned doors and headlights on Sunstreaker?

And there isn’t an aircraft enthusiast on the planet that would ignore that horrendous underside of the jet mode and go “Oh but it has the radome!”

[Felix]

And there isn’t an aircraft enthusiast on the planet that would ignore that horrendous underside of the jet mode and go “Oh but it has the radome!”

Because I'm a more realistic alt-mode fan - MP-3 (with leg mod) still best MP seeker

[Skyfire]

First youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRRKbpsQCXg) look (at the robot mode). Available to purchase in Singapore at The Falcon's Hangar (http://www.tfh.com.sg/product-details.php?p=28104) and RoboRobo (https://roborobo.com.sg/shop/hasbro/transformers/preorder-takaratomy-transformers-masterpiece-w-mp-52-thundercracker-seeker/).

[Krayt]

First youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRRKbpsQCXg) look (at the robot mode). Available to purchase in Singapore at The Falcon's Hangar (http://www.tfh.com.sg/product-details.php?p=28104) and RoboRobo (https://roborobo.com.sg/shop/hasbro/transformers/preorder-takaratomy-transformers-masterpiece-w-mp-52-thundercracker-seeker/).

RR is working out my postage monday

[Skyfire]

So while waiting for my MP-52+ Thundercracker to arrive, I've been following closely the TFW2005 posts (https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/masterpiece-thundercracker-2-0-incoming.1206483/) and the few Youtube videos out recently to get an idea of quality issues. For those who didn't follow MP-52 Starscream over the last few months, quality has been a gamble, and given his price, an expensive gamble. To summarise Starscream's (non-universal) faults:

- Hairline cracks around the base of the vertical tail fins, especially the right one, out of the box or on first transformation. They didn't seem to get worse over time (mine hasn't).
- Loose ankles causing instability. Sometimes there was cracking or stress marks around the forward/back movement ankle pin.
- Weak knee ratchets and seldom a missing knee or hip ratchet.
- Forearms flaps that didn't close flush.
- Loose thrusters.
- Broken or loose pointy wing tip hinges.
- Extra molding flash at the elbows.
- Two of the same - faces (with one missing), null rays, air intakes, front edge wing hinges.
- Cracking or breaking of the blue forearm/hand plastic or of the cockpit.
- The usual random paint blemishes and scratches (usually small or trivial).

Did Thundercracker improve? It's early days but so far I've seen:

- Little reporting of tailfin base cracking.
- Good improvement in ankle and other joint stiffness.
- An instance of a missing wing aileron/flap.
- An instance of a missing thumb piece.
- An instance of duplicate faces.
- An instance of a missing flight stand.
- The usual random paint blemishes or scratches (small or minor, though one case was atrociously painted).

So how does my TC compare with my SS (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php/27291-New-Masterpiece-Starscream-MP52?p=645257#post645257)?

Report on my copy:

First of all, mine came double-taped (box and clam shell).

[1] Again I have a hairline crack at the base of the right vertical stabiliser, but only one and it is very small and isolated to the rim (not going down the side unlike my SS). It doesn't open on fin rotation. The left fin is fine. Both fins rotate without issues.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51553199075_0b0a1b4669_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/sr8a6U)

[2] The ankles are crack free and much tighter front/back - as firm as SS's/TC's elbow joints. Sideways tightness is about the same as SS - not loose but not firm. But the ankles are so good that I can tilt him forward almost right to where his shins rest on the feet and he can hold all the angles to that point.

[3] My thrusters are ok.

[4] My air intakes in jet mode tab more securely into place and are harder to knock out - they still stay fairly firm in place even when knocked out.

[5] Both my rear landing gear rattle inside the feet but lock very firmly into place.

[6] All my faces are correct - the open smile has a very minor paint blemish on the nose.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51551488967_688cdbbc73_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/7A8gxX)

[7] Both front wing hinges are the same as SS's, so I assume they are fine.

[8] No stress marks I could see, but minor deformities on the thigh and under the cockpit.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51552286156_aa52cf3a8f_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/735x8n)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51553004884_7893c8f232_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/5aP8yc)

[9] The usual minor paint blemishes, scratches or marks for a MP.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51551523622_e5b835e5b3_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/5w93r2)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51552286341_cf9dc19640_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/0D10DA)

[10] Both forearm panels close flush and it takes a bit of effort to open them (I can feel them "squish" close, which makes me think the paint is thicker this time).

[11] The nose cone rotation was a bit stiffer but not to the point of breaking.

[12] The right knee pad air vent is slightly crooked in exactly the same way as SS.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51552286401_7b1a9cad40_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/9u69Y1)

[13] No cracks or stress marks of the grey forearm plastic.

[14] Knee ratchets are stronger than SS and fairly firm but still fail the "holding your figure by the lower legs while horizontal without knee bend" test. And there is very little wobble or play at each detent. Comparing my SS now, SS has a lot of wobble even when vertically standing, so that plus not very strong ankles means I have to balance him a bit carefully. By contrast, TC doesn't need me to carefully balance him when standing straight - he is mostly stand and forget. TC's hips are about the same as SS - strong front/back and sideways.

[15] No elbow mold flash but a trivial bit at the right vertical tail fin (easy to cut off).

[16] TC's hands can attach SS's drill and claw without problem.

[17] The right wing Decepticon tampo is incomplete, which is exactly the same as this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwdZrs4C0uQ).

[18] There were some dirt (or paint dust?) and oily marks, which cleaned up perfectly with a damp cloth. The left wing has barely noticeable pitting of the paint, which has trapped some tiny dark spots - these I can't clean off but it is barely seen.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51553199150_0c9eacb6b6_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/fp8z7U)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51551489092_d43b08dab6_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/188963544@N02/SVb07j)

Transformation was the same as SS with some pins being a bit tighter. No problems with things fitting into things properly - secure and nothing more forceful than with SS.

I still had the same problem with folding the bottom half of the cockpit up and backwards. The parts I described in my SS report squash against each other just the same. I tried my best even knowing what happens and STILL deformed the plastic a bit. It's a design problem.

So, in terms of quality, I would say the cosmetic finish is similar to my SS - random, minor or trivial paint blemishes or marks. The incomplete tampo is not very noticeable - I missed it on first glance, and in robot mode (how he will be displayed), his shoulder/gun blocks it. The knees and ankles are much better and I have no concerns about stability with my TC. And his forearm flaps close well. So, structurally, my TC is better than my SS.

[philby]

with the issues you get for the price you pay for these ones, far out.