Animated Character Development (split from Parra Fair thread)

[GoktimusPrime]

I've split this debate off from a thread in the Deluxe Member area, and snipped out some Parra Fair stuff

It's annoying how I was told that Animated writers didn't have time to give more exposition to characters like Bulkhead and the Dinobots to develop them as decent characters because they had to introduce all these other characters that they want to sell as toys - only to have some of those characters not end up as toys at all! So basically all that time that's now wasted on having Mixmaster, Scrapper and Omega Supreme/the Ark in the show could have been better spent doing further character development on existing characters like Bulkhead, Grimlock, Swoop, Snarl, Sentinel Prime etc. Graaaargh! Now that they've decided not to make toys of those characters I do hope that they won't waste any more precious time giving them any more air time in the show. Seriously.

[Sky Shadow]

So basically all that time that's now wasted on having Mixmaster, Scrapper and Omega Supreme/the Ark in the show could have been better spent doing further character development on existing characters like Bulkhead, Grimlock, Swoop, Snarl, Sentinel Prime etc.

(Hey Captain Planet - good to see you and everyone else yesterday.) I agree about the Dinobots (who are boring, and this comes from someone whose favourite Transformer for twenty years was Grimlock.) But you realy believe Bulkhead and Sentinel Prime haven't had sufficient development? I think they're amongst the best and most well-rounded characters on the show (and presumably Season Three will give us even more backstory on Sentinel and Optimus's shared history.) Plus, now that we've seen Bulky and Sentinel in flashbacks as well as present-day we can see how they got to become the bots they are now. (And it turned out that the fact that Bulkhead is a country-bot who wanted nothing more than to work on space bridges was a huge plot point.) Season Two was one of the best Transformers seasons ever IMO and it brought us Wreck Gar, Swindle, Samurai Prowl, Jazz, Blurr, Wasp (kind of), Longarm Prime and Shockwave toys even if we don't get the Constructicons and Omega Supreme.

I'd be worried with the series not introducing new Transformers just because they haven't produced the toys 'yet', since then we might end up with another season of the Autobots fighting humans and a whole toyline of recolours. (Although... a toyline of recolours of Lugnut. Interesting...)

[GoktimusPrime]

Bulkhead started off as the "clumsy kind-hearted oaf"... what's changed? I do like how they gave him that Space Bridge engineer background at the end of Season 2... I can only hope that they will continue to develop the character more. Sentinel Prime to me seems to be a stereotypical "jock" style bully/jerk... it's like he's always been that way and there's little to explain how he came to be like that and why he continues to be so. This is different from say Depth Charge in Beast Wars whose background was explained so that we understood why he was such a dark and brooding anti-hero.

By our powers combined!

[Gutsman Heavy]

I hope they don't flesh out Sentinel, I like to think he's a jerk just because he is an arsehole, not 'cos Optimus took the last twix for some reason, people can be arseholes for no reason (hell I know a few) why not Autobots? I however support development of other characters. It took em a while but they did good with Bulky.

[Golden Phoenix]

For all we know, Optimus could have been a third wheel on that trip to find energon with Sentinel and Elita-1 in "Along came a Spider". I think it is kind of implied.
Sentinel has his arm around Elita-1 during the first flash back, and during one of the last ones, he is saying that have to go back for her, while Optimus is saying that have to get out, after which when they do Sentinel throws Optimus against a wall/rock and yells "It's all you fault!"
Also during the first flash back Sentinel seems to be friendly with Optimus, although bagging him, he does it as if they are friends

[Bartrim]

Just a note on the animated . I've been re-watching animated again and in the episode "The Elite Guard" Sentinel Prime is ripping Optimus and his other bots and Bulkhead leans down to Bumblebee and says "I don't think he remembers us" and Bumblebee replies "Lets keep it that way". It is obvious now that they are referring to the incidents in "Autoboot Camp" I just thought that was a good touch in keeping the series all together.

I am very excited about season 3 although am dissapointed to hear Rodimus and the like will only have minor appearances.

[GoktimusPrime]

I hope they don't flesh out Sentinel, I like to think he's a jerk just because he is an arsehole, not 'cos Optimus took the last twix for some reason, people can be arseholes for no reason (hell I know a few) why not Autobots?
Actually... people who are arseholes usually are like that for a reason. People who tend to bully others usually do so because they have low self-esteem, confidence etc. Again, compare Sentinel Prime with Depth Charge... Depth Charge can also be a real jerk and he's a very dark and brooding anti-hero... but it's quite clear why he's like that.
http://tformers.net/i/a/animated/sentinel-prime.JPGhttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/d/d9/Depth_Charge_ready_to_shoot_Rampage.jpg/220px-Depth_Charge_ready_to_shoot_Rampage.jpg


For all we know, Optimus could have been a third wheel on that trip to find energon with Sentinel and Elita-1 in "Along came a Spider". I think it is kind of implied.
I didn't see that implication. Optimus and Sentinel were never best of friends - it was clear that Sentinel had no respect for Optimus... Elita-1 seemed fairly neutral.


Sentinel has his arm around Elita-1 during the first flash back, and during one of the last ones, he is saying that have to go back for her, while Optimus is saying that have to get out, after which when they do Sentinel throws Optimus against a wall/rock and yells "It's all you fault!"
But he was already a dickwad toward Optimus before that happened... while I'm sure it didn't improve Optimus' standing with Sentinel, it certainly wasn't the cause of the animosity between them. And as the flashback to the Autobot boot camp showed, Sentinel is a jerk to nearly everyone and doesn't have much respect for anybody, not even Ultra Magnus - although he's quite sycophantic in front of his superiors. Sentinel is actually a lot like Starscream.


Also during the first flash back Sentinel seems to be friendly with Optimus, although bagging him, he does it as if they are friends
...I didn't think Optimus appreciated the 'humour'... it seemed very one-way with Sentinel having fun at Optimus' expense.


Just a note on the animated . I've been re-watching animated again and in the episode "The Elite Guard" Sentinel Prime is ripping Optimus and his other bots and Bulkhead leans down to Bumblebee and says "I don't think he remembers us" and Bumblebee replies "Lets keep it that way". It is obvious now that they are referring to the incidents in "Autoboot Camp" I just thought that was a good touch in keeping the series all together.
It's strange how Sentinel Prime seems to hate Optimus Prime for no particular reason, yet he's totally forgotten about Bumblebee despite all the horrendous crap he did to him back in boot camp!

[Golden Phoenix]

But he was already a dickwad toward Optimus before that happened... while I'm sure it didn't improve Optimus' standing with Sentinel, it certainly wasn't the cause of the animosity between them.
Why would Sentinel invite some who he hates to come on a trip that might end up making them rich?
I know with some of my friends we pay out on each other all the time. There is a time and pace for it, but when it is the wrong place it isn't really appreciated. I think this is one of those cases. They were breaking protocol by going to an off-limits planet with organic life. Optimus is worried about the danger, he even says "You don't stop to consider there is a reason why organic planets are off-limits to Autobots"


...I didn't think Optimus appreciated the 'humour'... it seemed very one-way with Sentinel having fun at Optimus' expense.
Optimus does throw some back. When he finally decides to go along with them, he calls them malfunctions.


And as the flashback to the Autobot boot camp showed, Sentinel is a jerk to nearly everyone and doesn't have much respect for anybody, not even Ultra Magnus - although he's quite sycophantic in front of his superiors. Sentinel is actually a lot like Starscream.
In the "Along came a Spider" flashback they never reveal their current rank. As such we can't place either episode's flashbacks in the timeline. So this could be after the incident seen in "Along came a Spider"


yet he's totally forgotten about Bumblebee despite all the horrendous crap he did to him back in boot camp!
He forgets Bumblebee's name by the end of "Autobot Camp" episode, and who knows how many groups he trained. He could have trained thousands of bots.

[GoktimusPrime]

To me they haven't established some kind of love-hate rapport between Optimus and Sentinel like they did with say Rattrap and Dinobot. With Rattrap and Dinobot we saw them often ripping each other to shreds - and there were times when they really genuinely each other's feelings too (e.g.: Dinobot's betrayal, Rattrap's criticisms of his honour)... but we always knew that they were the best of friends. Rattrap was the first to arrive on the scene when Dinobot was slain and it was Rattrap who clutched Dinobot as he died - and the fact that they were both still bad-mouthing each other while Dinobot was dying in Rattrap's arms illustrates their relationship quite well. Rattrap was also the first to stand and salute when Dinobot's Spark departed from his body.

So yeah, I never saw any kind of rapport like that being established between Sentinel and Optimus. To me, they were just two guys who didn't like each other and took jabs at each other - not in a friendly rival kind of way, but as in genuinely just bullying and counter-teasing in a fairly malicious kind of way. There's a difference between friendly teasing and outright belittling conduct, which is what I see with Sentinel. Optimus gives some back too, but as a reaction to Sentinel's continual swipes at him. It's not really the right thing to do - Optimus usually tries to take the moral high ground and rise above Sentinel's immaturity... but at times he cracks and he allows himself to attack Sentinel - and again, the flashback was in his past when he would've been less emotionally matured (whereas Sentinel's emotional maturity seems to be stagnant). In the second Headmaster episode we see Optimus exercising a lot of restraint in not taking advantage of Sentinel Prime's situation and also helping Sentinel Prime to maintain his dignity and save him from losing face (bad enough he lost his body! :p)


In the "Along came a Spider" flashback they never reveal their current rank. As such we can't place either episode's flashbacks in the timeline. So this could be after the incident seen in "Along came a Spider"
Sentinel feigns respect in front of Ultra Magnus but doesn't show respect to anyone else. It is shown that, with a few exceptions, Sentinel doesn't respect to others and does not hesitate to belittle others.

[Kyle]

When Optimus first saw the body-less Sentinel and laughed, it really made my day. :D

[1orion2many]

When Optimus first saw the body-less Sentinel and laughed, it really made my day. :D

Obviously out of one of the cartoons I haven't seen yet thank goodness, sorry still no love for the series but I do like the toys despite their kiddy look:).

[Kyle]

Wait for the DVDs. Watch them in one go. I LOVE the series. :p

[GoktimusPrime]

i_amtrunks sums up my feeling toward Animated quite well - it's rather hit and miss with the episodes ranging between terrible and "meh." I find it mediocre at best. :/

[i_amtrunks]

Just a qualifier on what Gok said, there are some brilliant episodes as well, but for every great (what I would consider "must see" episodes) there are about 3 meh and 2 terrible episodes.

With the Toasted Tv versions, all episodes are terrible though...

[SilverDragon]

With the Toasted Tv versions, all episodes are terrible though...

Why is that?

[roller]

Why is that?

for me, its because they are too busy thinking "How much of the ep can i cut out so i can fit more advertisments in, and make more money for my Double bay mansion"

really, they cut an insane amount of the episode out, you really wont know what the heck is going on in some stories.

[Pulse]

Wait for the DVDs. Watch them in one go. I LOVE the series. :p

I wouldn't use the word "luv" but compared to the Arm/Ener/Cyb cartoons, it's a fair bit better & much more "stomachable" :). IMHO I'd say Season 2 (http://enewsi.com/news.php?catid=192&itemid=14176) is just that much better than Season 1.

[GoktimusPrime]

SilverDragon: Because Toasted TV hacked and cut the Animated eps really badly. :(

[i_amtrunks]

SilverDragon: Because Toasted TV hacked and cut the Animated eps really badly. :(

As Roller and Gok stated, they cut the episode into 7 minute segments (to be fit in their advertisements and crappy hosts) and they are not selective with what they cut. For example they wont cut transformation sequences, instead preferring to mostly cut important plot sections and moments that have an impact of the episode/series as a whole.

They did the same to Energon and Cybertron (even repeating the opening 7 nminute section, and skipping the middle section in a few episodes).

Then again I've found they do it to everything, DBZ, One piece and TMNT all got hacked to bits too.

[Paulbot]

I think most Cartoon shows do this. I'm sure The Early Bird Show probably did this back in the 80s to the original cartoon.

[Sky Shadow]

I think most Cartoon shows do this. I'm sure The Early Bird Show probably did this back in the 80s to the original cartoon.

It's not quite the same though, Paulbot. When I watched G1 in the mid-eighties it wasn't cut at all (the episodes I taped are the same as the ones on the DVDs). When it was shown at 3:30 in the afternoons in the nineties I noticed bits were missing - it was cut, because advertising had increased from one or two ads per ad-break to a couple more. Now that there are something like eight commercials per break, I don’t even watch TV anymore, but I can only imagine how bad the Animated episodes are if they’re crammed-in between interruptions by the hosts as well as copious advertisements. Which is a shame for today’s kids that they don’t get to see free-to-air Transformers as it should be. But then again, at least they get to see Animated Season Two: in any form it’s leagues better than G1 Season One ever was.

[GoktimusPrime]

*shudders* The Early Bird show was baaaaaad. I remembered how they would often interrupt Transformers with:
+ ad break
+ crap from hosts
+ another ad break
+ more crap from hosts
+ another cartoon
...I often relied on TV screenings of Transformers to record them onto video and when it came to the Early Bird show you could forget hitting the Pause button because it would always time out! A couple of times the interruptions were so extensive that they would run out of time and NOT finish showing the rest of that TF ep!! AAAAAAAAAARGH!

The interruptions were sometimes so bad that I could switch channels and watch a full episode of Challenge of the Gobots, and then switch back and they still haven't continued airing that TF ep! *screams again*

[Golden Phoenix]

The Worst cartoon to watch on free to air TV was The Batman from 2004.
WBtoons on 9 on Saturday mornings would hack it into 3 blocks and show one block every half hour in between the other cartoons they were shoving.
I got so frustrated I downloaded the entire series to spite them

[roller]

hopefully the characterisation of the series will go from bad to worse over the course of the decade and eventually fissle out, allowing people to see the glory that is G1!

[GoktimusPrime]

What about the glory that is Machine Wars?

[The Scream Man]

i dont remember any glory in Machine wars, but maybe thats just me....

[GoktimusPrime]

It was the glory of shelf-warming. :p

[SilverDragon]

hopefully the characterisation of the series will go from bad to worse over the course of the decade and eventually fissle out, allowing people to see the glory that is G1!

Or, alternately, the glory of Machine Men. :p

[GoktimusPrime]

Get out! :p

[roller]

i dont remember any glory in Machine wars, but maybe thats just me....

yep its just you and the other uncivilised Machine Wars bashers :D