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View Full Version : Thoughts about the Spoiler policy on this forum.



Sky Shadow
16th December 2008, 07:18 AM
On Behalf of the Dirge:

In the future please refrain from posting unreleased Movie related information or pictures without a clear spoiler warning.

Thank you

Why though? Why are Animated-related information and pictures okay, yet movie ones need a spoiler?

I don't care either way, I've just been wondering.

griffin
16th December 2008, 01:37 PM
Why though? Why are Animated-related information and pictures okay, yet movie ones need a spoiler?

I don't care either way, I've just been wondering.

I think the rule was set up at a time when there wasn't really anything else that had the fans' interest to spoil. There was little interest in the Cybertron cartoon, and now with Animated having a fair bit of fan support, it probably should be covered under the spoilers doctrine.
Especially if it relates to the show. Which I guess covers all the toys as well if there is a chance they could be in the show...
It's a very difficult thing to have consistency over, because if you start censoring all toy names in topics (not just for Animated and the Movie), we are gonna have a lot of topic titles in the index that are confusing.

I was thinking about not censoring news relating to toys (but still censor anything plot related), but what if the toy itself is tied to a significant plot element (like the return or appearance, or upgrade of a certain character)?

Thoughts? Should we have spoiler warnings:
- for toys that are definitely plot related to any storyline/movie (toys for new characters, returning characters).
- only if it *could be* plot related (the existance of a toy could lead to discussion/speculation that could end up being spoiler related).
- okay to post about any toy without spoiler warnings or censoring it from the topic title.
- only protect the Movie from spoilers by censoring its related toys from topic titles.
- protect any current/upcoming cartoon/movie/comic from spoilers by censoring their related toys from topic titles.
- censor ALL toys from topic titles in case they are future spoilers.
- or some other idea.

griffin
16th December 2008, 01:40 PM
(Moved this to the board info section for discussion out of the existing topic)

jaydisc
16th December 2008, 01:50 PM
Does anyone have specific concerns about being exposed to non-movie spoilers?

I remember Gok saying that he generally avoids the Movie News section in its entirety which I think is the best idea, but it would not have solved Amon's posting. Perhaps we expand Movie News to "Movie News and Discussions (may contain spoilers)" and any movie related topics (including toys) can be posted cart blanche in there?

Sky Shadow
16th December 2008, 02:29 PM
Thoughts?

I don't personally feel the need for toy spoilers on the forum at the moment. As an individual, I don't greatly mind being spoiled (unless it's about plot) and since I browse TFW2005 and Seibertron too I know those sites will just whack any news up on their front page without spoiler space anyway. So I suppose if the individuals who I know are concerned about spoilers (like Gok) make it clear what they do or don't want spoiled then we shall work within that policy.

That said, as a Transformers culture I think it's sometimes sad that we no longer get the surprises we did as kids. I remember walking into a toy department in 1988 and finding huge amounts of first-generation Pretenders and Autobot Powermasters - toys I had never seen before (since I obviously didn't yet have one of the catalogues that were within those packages.) It was amazing to find these new toys - robots with humanoid and monster action figures that they could wear and robots with transforming engines. Likewise I can still even remember the smell of the David Jones where I first found Pretender Grimlock. Since the advent of the Internet, we rarely get those experiences. The last time I had anything like that was when I was disenchanted with Beast Machines and wasn't keeping track of Transformers Internet news. I found the first two Mutant Beasts - I didn't know they existed and they came on Beast Wars packaging! To this day I'm still attached to Poison Bite because of that nostalgia.

GoktimusPrime
16th December 2008, 02:42 PM
Perhaps a poll is in order, but here are my personal thoughts...


Thoughts? Should we have spoiler warnings:
- for toys that are definitely plot related to any storyline/movie (toys for new characters, returning characters).
I don't think so. I think it's fair to avoid mentioning plot spoilers when introducing a new toy, especially if that toy hasn't appeared in an episode yet, but otherwise I think it's fine to reveal new toys without discussing any story relation. After all, for the majority of TF history the toys have always come first. It's not as if seeing a new toy on shelves necessarily gives plot spoilers away. When I first saw Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime in 1986 I did notice that they looked remarkably similar but I never thought that they were the same character another kid at my school told me (at that age I didn't care about spoilers - I asked him to tell me the story of TFTM before I saw it myself in the cinema :p). I also didn't know that Galvatron was Megatron... and even reading their tech specs didn't reveal that they're all the same character.

So considering that we largely haven't cared about having new toys revealed to us for the past 24 years I don't see why anyone would start kicking up a fuss now. Just because you see a toy doesn't mean it will necessarily appear in that canon. e.g.: Movie Wreckage, Arcee etc. never appeared in the 2007 movie.

And seeing Animated characters like say Elite Guard Bumblebee, Oilslick, Jetfire and Jetstorm - people who've been following upcoming spoiler info on Animated Season 3 would know which of those characters will appear in the cartoon and comics and which ones won't, but people who haven't would have no idea. Seeing these toys doesn't tell you who is appearing where - just like in G1 you only see the toys and unless you are exposed to spoilers beforehand, you pretty much just have to wait for the comic or cartoon to come out before you discover for yourself who will be in the comics or show.


- only if it *could be* plot related (the existence of a toy could lead to discussion/speculation that could end up being spoiler related).
Yeah, in that case I would avoid putting the name of the toy/character in the topic but put a spoiler warning in the title or something to that effect. e.g.: if you're talking about a new movie toy that could be a character in the next movie then don't tack the name of the character in the topic and either say "SPOILER" or "sequel movie character" - something that would let people who are avoiding spoilers for the sequel steer clear of that thread.


- okay to post about any toy without spoiler warnings or censoring it from the topic title.
I wouldn't agree with that across the board. Say for example - and I'm just making this up - Jazz returns in the prequel as the Tooth Fairy, and they release a toy called Tooth Fairy Jazz. Viewing/reading about that toy could be easily considered to be a massive plot spoiler.


- only protect the Movie from spoilers by censoring its related toys from topic titles.
Although a lot of this stuff would concern movie toys I would make the rule cover all titles to be on the safe side.


- or some other idea.
I think people just need to be careful about where they post and what they type in the topic and providing adequate spoiler warnings for others.

roller
16th December 2008, 03:14 PM
i would enjoy not knowing about future events like the movie, toys released for the second movie are obviously going to spoil something, like new characters etc. Plus i'd rather like to be surprised when i see the movie as to see which homeage characters will be appearing.

As for animated, i dont like the line, so i dont mind about knowing which toys will be coming soon, but im sure there must be at least 1 person who dislikes Animated toy release news if the toy hasn't appeared in the show yet.


heck, ive tried to forget the name of the movie sequel

dirge
16th December 2008, 06:41 PM
Really it comes down to courtesy. Yes, a lot of sites carry TF news, and a lot are carrying what could be considered movie spoilers - and not all of them give spoiler warning - but giving others a heads-up on unreleased fiction news is just polite IMO.

In the case of the movie, a lot of toy news does provide potential spoilers, which is annoying but unavoidable with the amount of factory leaks nowadays.

Personally I avoid any sort of spoiler info - and don't follow the movie section at all (moderation aside, when necessary) for that reason. In the case of the film, keeping movie news in that area (as intended when the section was set up) solves any potential issues anyway.

Paulbot
16th December 2008, 08:44 PM
As someone who waved the flag for the current spoiler policy, I think it's working fine.

I too avoid the Movie section and most of the TF news sites and that keeps me realtively spoiler free (although at lunch meets people don't tend to say Spoiler warning before they talk! :P ).

New Animated cartoon characters and toys have been flagged in advance pretty well too so if people want to avoid them they can.

STL
16th December 2008, 09:55 PM
I personally have no problem as long as there is no spoiler information of plot. I hate that learning of plots though toys are totally a different species.

Sky Shadow
16th December 2008, 10:15 PM
When I first saw Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime in 1986 I did notice that they looked remarkably similar but I never thought that they were the same character another kid at my school told me (at that age I didn't care about spoilers - I asked him to tell me the story of TFTM before I saw it myself in the cinema :p). I also didn't know that Galvatron was Megatron... and even reading their tech specs didn't reveal that they're all the same character.

I know I'd already read TFUK #83 where Galvatron says "I am Megatron" when I saw the movie, so I was fairly spoiled on that point. However, despite the fact that I'd seen both Rodimus Prime and Hot Rod on the 1986 catalogue, I still hadn't made the connection that they were the same guy (I thought Roadimus was Hot Rod's big brother.) Then, when I'm sitting in the cinema watching the film and Optimus Prime says "one day an Autobot shall rise from our ranks and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour..." and drops the Matrix only to have Hot Rod catch it, at that moment, my Dad leans down from next to me and says "it's [I]him." And of course he was totally right. But yes, I got spoiled by someone else while I was actually watching the movie. :o

Tetsuwan Convoy
16th December 2008, 10:40 PM
Silly Dad hey?:D

I think the current spoiler policy works firly well. I just think that that Amon's post perhaps should have been in the movie section. Which has the general spoiler tag there anyway, just to avoid this situation.

GoktimusPrime
17th December 2008, 07:44 AM
The only time I had a toy spoil a plot for me was Hangar Duel Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars Episode II - the toy has a detachable arm, which of course lets you know that he gets his arm chopped off! AAAAAAAAAARGH! They really shouldn't release toys with spoiler gimmicks in the first wave (which usually comes out before the movie). (-_-)

GoktimusPrime
29th December 2008, 11:09 AM
Here's another question about spoilers: Is there a statute of limitations regarding spoilers?

What I mean is, do we still need to be careful not to post spoilers for really OLD stuff like say Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Generation 2 and Generation 1?

This means that as of 2009
+ G1 will be 16~25 years old
+ G2 will be 14~16 years old
+ Beast Wars will be 9~13 years old
+ Beast Machines will be 7~9 years old
+ Car Robot will be 9 years old (RiD will be 6~8 years old)
+ Dreamwave TFs will be 5~7 years old
+ Armada/Energon/Cybertron will be 3~6 years old
+ IDW's TFs will be up to 4 years old
+ The live action-movie will be 2 years old
+ Transformers Animated will be up to a year old

Now I understand that the Transformers universe is a big universe and not everyone has the time, resources or inclination to access all these various forms of canon at the time that they're released. But suerly that has to be a reasonable time limit before these things can be considered to be off-limits for spoilers - because if not we would then have to forever treat everything as if it's a spoiler, just in case somebody hasn't seen or read it yet... and there will _always_ be someone who hasn't seen or read something yet. (-_-)

For example, if I'm posting something that's from 1989, then does it need to be treated as a spoiler just in case someone hasn't seen it yet?

This question does actually originate from a question raised about one of my signature's "Random TF Facts," which is discussed here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=72575#post72575).

Paulbot
29th December 2008, 12:21 PM
For example, if I'm posting something that's from 1989, then does it need to be treated as a spoiler just in case someone hasn't seen it yet?

This question does actually originate from a question raised about one of my signature's "Random TF Facts," which is discussed here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=72575#post72575).

Think about context. Someone has a thread explaining how they are watching Victory for the first time. You reply with your signature explaining how a character dies in that series. That is a big spoiler. It's not even really a random fact.

I think telling people how characters die in the fiction in your signature (which appears in every single post you've made) is not on.

If you were comparing character deaths or something in a post or discussion thread someone would have context and could ignore or skip paragraphs.

And yes Victory has not been available for the English speaking majority of members on this board for all that long.

STL
29th December 2008, 04:51 PM
I think in those cases its not the fault of a poster if they post spoilers of a series someone hasn't read yet if its not public knowledge or they cant' tell from the context. No one's going to (or should) be picked up on if they didn't know that someone was in the middle of reading/watching a comic/show. For me, a lot of the facts just go right on over my head and I forget them. I'm just not a "know it all" person. It's more the moment that I start following a series then I pay attention.

And in that case, I think its only fair if everyone is aware of that fact then they can help that person by giving a spoiler alert. It's not necessary in all threads but definitely if that person is mentioning in "NewVictorythread01" I'm just starting out and these are my thoughts.

Imposing a time limit doesn't work b/c even if the DVDs are available for a long time, not everyone gets around to watching them or affording the DVDs till some later point. I think by and large, there is no malicious attempt to spoil people here. It's mostly accidental and from my time everyone such as Kup, Paulbot and yourself have been immensely helpful in giving warning notices if you feel ur step into territory that that person might only be discovering.

GoktimusPrime
29th December 2008, 06:30 PM
(from the Random TF facts page)

How a character dies isn't a random fact, it is an outright spoiler.
Yes, but it's from 1989. Would it also be considered a spoiler if I say mentioned how Optimus Prime died in Transformers The Movie (1986)? Essentially anything can be considered a spoiler to someone - yes, I agree that some spoilers are bigger than others, but they're all spoilers nonetheless. My current signature could easily be a spoiler for someone who's never read the G1 UK comics and Doctor Who magazines.


Think about context. Someone has a thread explaining how they are watching Victory for the first time. You reply with your signature explaining how a character dies in that series. That is a big spoiler. It's not even really a random fact.

I think telling people how characters die in the fiction in your signature (which appears in every single post you've made) is not on.

If you were comparing character deaths or something in a post or discussion thread someone would have context and could ignore or skip paragraphs.
When I changed my signature I wasn't thinking about SilverDragon's Victory thread tbh. I will try to be more thoughtful in future though if people are flagging that they're going through an old series for the first time.

I honestly did not intend for the spoiler to appear on SD's thread, but you're right - my signature does appear on all of my posts. I changed it ASAP after I realised what had happened and yeah, all I can do is try and prevent that from happening in future. But unless someone publicly flags that they're going through an old series for the first time - and if I happen to read that thread, then it's going to be difficult to prevent people from being exposed to spoilers via random TF facts. The other option is just to abandon the entire thing from my signature. Perhaps I should just make a Random TF Fact thread with a disclaimer that my posts may contain spoilers and that people are reading it at their own risk. *shrug*


And yes Victory has not been available for the English speaking majority of members on this board for all that long.
Okay, and that is why I've stated on the random TF fact thread that I'm giving the G1 Japanese series a one year statute of limitations. As I said on the other thread I think 12 months is a reasonable amount of time for people who really want to watch these series to sit down and watch them.


Imposing a time limit doesn't work b/c even if the DVDs are available for a long time, not everyone gets around to watching them or affording the DVDs till some later point. I think by and large, there is no malicious attempt to spoil people here. It's mostly accidental and from my time everyone such as Kup, Paulbot and yourself have been immensely helpful in giving warning notices if you feel ur step into territory that that person might only be discovering.
TBH I wouldn't think about attaching a spoiler warning or spoiler tagging say Transformers Victory stuff unless it was in a specific thread where a person has stated that they're watching it for the first time. Like with yours and Soundwarp's Journey Through Beast Wars threads - on those threads I was careful to tag spoilers but otherwise on other threads I just don't consider them to be spoiler territory at all considering that the Beast Wars franchise is 9 to 13 years old now.

Signatures may require a different protocol I suppose...

snazzbot 101
29th December 2008, 07:39 PM
(from the Random TF facts page)

Yes, but it's from 1989. Would it also be considered a spoiler if I say mentioned how Optimus Prime died in Transformers The Movie (1986)? Essentially anything can be considered a spoiler to someone - yes, I agree that some spoilers are bigger than others, but they're all spoilers nonetheless. My current signature could easily be a spoiler for someone who's never read the G1 UK comics and Doctor Who magazines.


When I changed my signature I wasn't thinking about SilverDragon's Victory thread tbh. I will try to be more thoughtful in future though if people are flagging that they're going through an old series for the first time.

I honestly did not intend for the spoiler to appear on SD's thread, but you're right - my signature does appear on all of my posts. I changed it ASAP after I realised what had happened and yeah, all I can do is try and prevent that from happening in future. But unless someone publicly flags that they're going through an old series for the first time - and if I happen to read that thread, then it's going to be difficult to prevent people from being exposed to spoilers via random TF facts. The other option is just to abandon the entire thing from my signature. Perhaps I should just make a Random TF Fact thread with a disclaimer that my posts may contain spoilers and that people are reading it at their own risk. *shrug*


Okay, and that is why I've stated on the random TF fact thread that I'm giving the G1 Japanese series a one year statute of limitations. As I said on the other thread I think 12 months is a reasonable amount of time for people who really want to watch these series to sit down and watch them.



Gee that's awfully generous of you. What about someone who joins in thirteen months time?

I'm new here and I do enjoy that you have knowledge feel you must share - no matter how it's shoehorned - but you need to be mindful that this is not your own private sandbox.

Others are here and you need to be mindful.

GoktimusPrime
30th December 2008, 07:44 AM
Hence the suggestion of abandoning my Random TF Triv thing in my Signature and starting a thread for it where every day I post a random TF fact in that thread. There would be a disclaimer in that thread that information there could be spoilers and that people would read it at their own risk. Hrmmm... *rubs chin*

Paulbot
30th December 2008, 08:56 AM
I think Random facts are okay but when you explain in some detail, how a character dies that's not a random fact it is plainly a plot spoiler.

I think there are ways to gives some random trivia without giving away the particular plot details.

For instance the following are facts that don't give away plot details of how character "X" died:
"X was the first Decepticon in fiction to be killed by a 'Heroic' Autobot"
"Five Decepticons, (X,X,X,X,X) have died as a result of being betrayed by a fellow Decepticon"
"Character X was killed because Hasbro had lost the rights to sell the toy and didn't want it promoted in the show anymore"

However I think there's a lot more TF facts out that people don't know that don't give away character deaths or how the story ends.

roller
30th December 2008, 11:34 AM
is it even essential to have a thread about 'random facts' ? Isn't that wat Tf wiki is for, finding info? and rest of the net of course

Burn
30th December 2008, 07:08 PM
As far as a time limit goes, i'd say 6 months to a year.

We live in a day and age where most people tend to see or read things soon after they're released to the general public.

Not to be rude, but we can't NOT tip toe around things just for the sake of a couple of people

I haven't seen the Japanese G1 series, but over the years i've learnt things because of something someone's posted. Do I get upset over it? No. Because I accept that i'm probably in the minority of TF fans who haven't seen these stories.

I haven't seen all of R.I.D. either, but I don't expect people to cater to me and not discuss it. If they do, I simply avoid the discussion.

Same with the 2007 and upcoming 2009 movie. I didn't and don't want to know too much about it, but curiousity tends to get the better of me and I take a sneak peak. THIS IS MY OWN DECISION. Meaning I can't blame anyone else but me.

It all comes to down to a invidivual's responsibility, if they don't want to be spoiled, don't look.

In the case of Gok's sig, like I said, 6-12 month time frame, he should be able to post any fact older than that. If it's a "spoiler" to someone then chances are, they're in a small group of people yet to experience that particular story and he, nor anyone else, should have to cater to that small group.