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griffin
25th January 2009, 04:12 AM
The transformation has begun, but it is far from over.
Phase 2 begins later today...

But some notes on what has been done so far.
- New board header logo (taken from the Ozformers T-shirt I did up for BotCon last year - the lettering is in greyscale until I can verify that it won't be a trademark infringment in colour, or can get permission to use it in colour) I will aslo shrink it down a little more, for those who have a lower resolution setting to their monitor.
- New background image (same Gen1 Autobot toybox themed grid pattern, but a lot lighter shades)
- Main table icons (coloured Autobot symbol for 'new posts', grey Autobot symbol for 'no new posts').
- Renamed the 2 existing sections of the board, and added 2 new sections. The four sections are now:
- - - News (just news items, including Sightings and Hasbro Q&A, as their contents count as news)
- - - Info and Activities (all other TFs sections)
- - - Ozformers Club Members section (The relaunch of the Ozformers Club that began in 1996, and will incorporate the 'Deluxe Members' concept - Club Membership details will be posted here soon)
- - - Non-TFs section (all other toys and non-toys - see *** below)
- Shuffled existing board sub-sections into the new section categories (above), and generated several new sub-sections.
- Moved active topics from the 'Guest House' section into the Hasbro Toys section, and deleted the 'Guest House'.

***The Non-TFs section.
This new section has two purposes. One is to open up the board a little more to non-members, without having a separate section being wasted on the odd guest posting.
The other purpose will be discussed either tonight or tomorrow, when phase 2 is completed.

So despite the recent server issues, let me know if anyone has any problems with the board after tonights changes.
Suggestions, comments and constructive criticism is welcome, but be aware that there are still a lot more changes coming this weekend. I have two whole days on my hands (25th/26th), and the 'transformation' task schedule will fill up most of that time.

Tober
25th January 2009, 08:58 AM
The transformation has begun, but it is far from over.
Phase 2 begins later today...

But some notes on what has been done so far.
- New board header logo (taken from the Ozformers T-shirt I did up for BotCon last year - the lettering is in greyscale until I can verify that it won't be a trademark infringment in colour, or can get permission to use it in colour) I will aslo shrink it down a little more, for those who have a lower resolution setting to their monitor.

I have a 1600 x 1200 and it's taking up 1/3 of my screen :confused:

liegeprime
25th January 2009, 10:06 AM
Same with me Tober, gave me a worry first time I saw it. I thought my monitor was wonking out. :p

Kyle
25th January 2009, 10:27 AM
New changes are always exciting. :p

GoktimusPrime
25th January 2009, 10:32 AM
the lettering is in greyscale until I can verify that it won't be a trademark infringment in colour, or can get permission to use it in colour
Ah... along with the black background I honestly thought that the board was in mourning or something. I'd recommend losing the black as it clashes with the rest of the board's colours. :)

roller
25th January 2009, 12:05 PM
too many new sections for my liking

Why does Lego get its own section?

Are there Hasbro orientated sections to entice them to be nice to us?

Colours are a bit...different

GoktimusPrime
25th January 2009, 12:36 PM
Why does Lego get its own section?
I agree with this sentiment. I think Lego could have its own sticky in the non-TF discussion section. This is meant to be a Transformers forum after all, if people really want to discuss Lego at length then why not join a Lego forum? (-_-)

jaydisc
25th January 2009, 01:06 PM
While everything else I might say is subjective, the 400 pixel high logo is brutal for many laptop users. I'm not as lucky as Tober as it takes up half of my laptop's vertical screen.

I would recommend trying to merge the four lines into two and having the logo the height of those two lines and try to keep it to 250 pixels at most (subjective)

As far as Lego, there's clearly a natural parallel interest and it's in the non-TF section, so I don't see why not. (subjective)

Robzy
25th January 2009, 01:35 PM
***The Non-TFs section.
This new section has two purposes. One is to open up the board a little more to non-members, without having a separate section being wasted on the odd guest posting.
The other purpose will be discussed either tonight or tomorrow, when phase 2 is completed.

My only suggestion would be having a Non-TF Aquisitions Section (like Scavenger's Aquisitions) for members to post in. At the moment, it's hidden somewhere in the "Non-Toy Stuff" Section!

kup
25th January 2009, 01:36 PM
Yeah the logo is huge and I run my desktop at 1680x1050 and it also clashes badly with the rest of the board as an eye sore.

The new sections and rearrangements are a bit on the confusing but that could just need some getting used to.

griffin
25th January 2009, 02:54 PM
Ah... along with the black background I honestly thought that the board was in mourning or something. I'd recommend losing the black as it clashes with the rest of the board's colours. :)

The banner is bugging me, and that was the last version I ended up with this morning before I was too tired to try some other ideas I still have. It concerns me that it is too high, but I am trying to make it long to accomodate those who use a higher resolution (people have bigger monitors these days, and turn up the Res to match). As such, a small banner can be left hanging to one side, or left with a heap of space on each side. I'll keep it centered though, no matter what size it is, and will try to narrow it a lot more (at least half its current height).
The black is easier to work with for me, especially when juggling components within the image, but I do agree that it is a too much black.
And I'd prefer to have the lettering in colour, so might just risk it.


too many new sections for my liking

Why does Lego get its own section?

Are there Hasbro orientated sections to entice them to be nice to us?


I'm trying to keep the number of sections as limited as possible, without causing too much traffic in the existing sections. The flaw of our first board, and a number of other boards, was that we had heaps of different themed sections, which sat vacant and lifeless, even as the member numbers grew.
The Non-TFs section of the board has a purpose (to be revealed later), which is why it is open to guests, so that it doesn't require non-TFs fans to register to use it. It is like a board within the board, that you guys can still use, and help it grow when the time comes to branch it off onto its own. But more on that later...


I agree with this sentiment. I think Lego could have its own sticky in the non-TF discussion section. This is meant to be a Transformers forum after all, if people really want to discuss Lego at length then why not join a Lego forum? (-_-)

Um, maybe because there isn't an AUS Lego forum (at least, none that I could find - there are probably yahoo/etc groups, but none web-based as an info resource), and there is a significant interest in Lego here to use it as one of the first trial sections of the OTCA twin website - AUS Transformers and AUS Toy Collecting in general. Transformers is probably only second behind Star Wars as Australia's most active and interactive toy collector community. And even that could be debatable if most SW fans are not avid toy collectors, instead just going to conventions and follow the story mediums. That said, we may have proven that we have the demand for a stand alone Transformers collector community, but what about all the rest of the toys being released in this country, and collected? Just because there isn't as much collector interest in them, doesn't mean there aren't people interested in following up on them and buying them. The Damntoys forum is a very expanded concept of what I eventually plan to have as a separate forum to our TFs forum, but I don't want to look like I am competing with the Damntoys forum. The priority is the info-resource website (which they don't have), but I will end up needing to eventually generate interaction forums to go with the new website, to allow people to comment on the news and content.

To prove my point, when I did several searches for Lego fan forums in Australia, I came up with 2 hits leading back to our board as the only AUS based and focused Lego fan interaction. So google searches may already be directing AUS Lego collectors here - making it an obvious starting point for the new website. If we had some other toy collecting interests shared by multiple members, I would look at adding them as well (except maybe Star Wars, as that would step on too many toes at this time).

That's revealed more than I wanted to at this time.
More to come...

Tommy K
25th January 2009, 03:03 PM
looks awesome

Kyle
25th January 2009, 03:09 PM
I support the creation of the new Lego section. :)

Tetsuwan Convoy
25th January 2009, 08:25 PM
Griffin's creating an Empire!!!:eek:

GoktimusPrime
25th January 2009, 09:34 PM
Um, maybe because there isn't an AUS Lego forum
So wouldn't it be the ownus of Australian Lego fans to form their own community? I don't see why it becomes our responsibility to cater for Australian fans of other toylines that don't already have an online community in this country. And where would you draw the line? Would you also include sections for other popular toylines which don't have an online Australian forum afaik? Examples might include:
+ Macross
+ Gundam
+ Gobots
+ TMNT
+ WWE
+ G.I. Joe (I Googled "G.I. Joe fan forums Australia" and didn't find anything).

...I just think having one "non-TF toys" section is more than enough and then maybe you could arrange the more popular threads such as Lego into stickies.

And then what about non-toy-collecting hobbies like animé, manga, comic books, scifi movies, sports et al? Are you going to make sections for all those if they become popular enough?

While it's nice of you to want to help out Lego fans on this board, I just don't think it's a good idea because:
a/ It lowers the integrity of the board as a Transformers forum by further diluting it with irrelevant sections.
b/ You're establishing a precedent that may lead to further dilution.

I personally think it was fun just to have one section for all non-TF related discussions and people can just make threads there. I started the martial arts discussion and Doctor Who discussion threads there and any time I want to discuss either of those issues I'll just go post on those threads. I don't feel the need to have dedicated sections. If I wanted to discuss them in further depth I'd go join or create specific boards on those topics.

In fact, you'll remember that's precisely what I did in 1999 when I created the first Planet Sabretron board - specifically to get away from all the unmoderated mayhem on most other boards like the BWTF boards at the time, and that board became the unofficial AusTrans (OzFormers) board for a while until you created the OzFormers forum around 2002/3? Anyway, it wasn't as if I demanded Ben Yee to create a section on his boards just for Australasian fans - I just went and made one (although I did allow some international users like FawnDoo, CheeToy etc.)... and then we made #transformers on austnet where we were mostly Australian fans but had a few foreigners there too (including Ben Yee and Rob Jung on a rare occasion). But the point I'm making is that I went and made my own forum rather than expecting someone else to do it for me.

jacksplatt11
25th January 2009, 10:45 PM
Let's do a poll, we don't do enough polls on OTCA...

To be honest, I'm not fussed, I don't feel it "lowers the intergrity of the board" or anything like that, because OTCA is still the main Aussie TF board (I think it's only OTCA and TAAU? Is your forum still up Gok?) and I believe it will continue to be so for the unforeseeable future, whether we have a sub-forum, or just a thread, for Lego or not. Also, those other topics you listed don't really get discussed quite as much as Lego on here, apart from perhaps Gobots for obvious reasons, so are quite able to be contained in their own threads, but I get the point you're making, Gok, and it's quite valid. They're just my thoughts anyways

Also, Griffin does all the work and everything and maintains the board etc apart from delegating the moderation, so he can pretty much do whatever he wants haha

Sam
25th January 2009, 10:45 PM
Hey Griffin, I really like the use of the Autobot logos to mark posts, it looks neat!

And whilst I consider myself a LEGO fan (I have a cupboard full of LEGO), and understand many people here also enjoy collecting LEGO, I too think that it should go under the "Toys" sub-section.

I understand that you want to make it easier for most of the fans here, and that's really very kind of you, but I think it may cause unnecessary misunderstanding in the future because some newer fans may then think that other non-TF interests/hobbies should also have their own sub-sections, therefore creating more workload for you.

But ultimately I think the issue is about maintaining the "TF-ness" (I know that's not a word) of this board. This is first and foremost a TF forum for TF fans, and so I think non-TF stuff should not have special treatment other than going into a non-TF section or "other toys" sub-section. I know none of us is against other hobbies, just that I believe they should go in their own appropriate sections.

Sorry if I seem to be making a big fuss, but I think it's important to set the distinction right at the start, so would like to respectfully request that you consider moving the LEGO thread into the other "toys" sub-section.

Thank you, cheers. :D

blackie
25th January 2009, 11:01 PM
a/ It lowers the integrity of the board as a Transformers forum by further diluting it with irrelevant sections.
b/ You're establishing a precedent that may lead to further dilution.

you use the word dilution...... but im not sure if that's what you mean. do correct me if im wrong :)

People will post regardless of weather there is a lego section or not. The only thing it may 'dilute' is the post counts, slightly i might add. All its doing IMO is bringing a few threads together and placing them in an easier to access place. Considering this is primarily a transformers board, i doubt many if any people will join just to intersect in the lego section, because even though it now has its own 'section' as it were, its essentially no bigger than it was last week.

I would also like to hear how you think this would "lower the integrity" of the board. If, because we now have a lego 'section' we are lowering our integrity, then we've been 'doing' it for as long as my short stay, because there has always been 2 lego threads since i joined.

just my opinion, please if you have a problem with it, do retort :D

jaydisc
25th January 2009, 11:22 PM
Hey Griffin, the new, smaller logo is a big improvement. Cheers.

blackie
25th January 2009, 11:24 PM
Hey Griffin, the new, smaller logo is a big improvement. Cheers.

+1

Golden Phoenix
25th January 2009, 11:25 PM
I think the Lego forum is great. It is more of a reflection that there is a big group of Lego fans here.
And I don't get the big deal. It's not like you are being forced to look at it or it's posts, so it doesn't really effect you.

Plus there is an advantage. Since non-registered users can post, they could find this place, through the Lego forum and join to be part of that, and then get a liking for Transformers and join that fandom too. It has worked pretty much the other way around so far with people stumbling into the Lego topics and getting interested in it

jacksplatt11
25th January 2009, 11:25 PM
Hey Griffin, the new, smaller logo is a big improvement. Cheers.

Agreed, much nicer and looking great

Golden Phoenix
25th January 2009, 11:27 PM
Hey Griffin, the new, smaller logo is a big improvement. Cheers.
It is, I liked the green and gold at the bottom of it though...

kup
26th January 2009, 12:37 AM
Yeah the logo is a massive improvement although the name is a little comboluted

Ozformers Transformers Collectors Australia


Something nice and simpler or just an acronym would be better.

In regards to other toy lines, I have to agree with Gok, it will become somewhat messy to have dedicated sections to cater specifically to other toy lines and may cause this board to loose focus when it comes to Transformers by attracting members who have an exclusive interest in lego or another toy line with no wish in getting involved with Transformer related activities.

The simplest way to cater to other fan interests would be to have a 'one for all others' section like the Misc section previously. That way someone who wishes to share something not related to Transformers can do so without moving the board focus away from Transformers unless the goal of these changes is to expand the board community to become less focused on transformers and more of a 'general toy collector' board.

GoktimusPrime
26th January 2009, 07:24 AM
Also, Griffin does all the work and everything and maintains the board etc apart from delegating the moderation, so he can pretty much do whatever he wants haha
Of course. I'm merely voicing my opinions about some of the changes made. Speaking of which...


Hey Griffin, the new, smaller logo is a big improvement. Cheers.
I agree. Still not a big fan of the black background though. Would it be possible to make it "clear" or possibly bring those green and gold stripes back as the background?


People will post regardless of weather there is a lego section or not. The only thing it may 'dilute' is the post counts, slightly i might add. All its doing IMO is bringing a few threads together and placing them in an easier to access place. Considering this is primarily a transformers board, i doubt many if any people will join just to intersect in the lego section, because even though it now has its own 'section' as it were, its essentially no bigger than it was last week.

I would also like to hear how you think this would "lower the integrity" of the board.
As Sam said, it's about maintaining the "TFness" of the board. If OzFormers is meant to be a Transformers community then any threads not related to TFs are irrelevant - quite frankly if people want to discuss non-TF issues they can do it elsewhere. I think griffin has already been very gracious in the past by giving us Unicron's Non-TF discussion section... that was already more than adequate and I know that even some fans argued against having that section there - but I thought a single section was adequate for members to discuss their non-TF thoughts and interests.

But the more non-TF sections we have then the less of a TF board this place feels like.


If, because we now have a lego 'section' we are lowering our integrity, then we've been 'doing' it for as long as my short stay, because there has always been 2 lego threads since i joined.
There's also 2 threads about Doctor Who as well. But those threads were in one non-TF section. My point isn't about the number of non-TF related threads in the non-TF section - there are lots.


I think the Lego forum is great. It is more of a reflection that there is a big group of Lego fans here.
And I don't get the big deal. It's not like you are being forced to look at it or it's posts, so it doesn't really effect you.
It has a passive effect on my board experience as it makes me feel like I'm more on an Australian toy-collectors board (http://www.damntoys.com/forum/phpbb2/index.php) rather than a Transformers board.


Plus there is an advantage. Since non-registered users can post, they could find this place, through the Lego forum and join to be part of that, and then get a liking for Transformers and join that fandom too. It has worked pretty much the other way around so far with people stumbling into the Lego topics and getting interested in it
What about people who are Lego fans who are not Transformers fans? I think it could be confusing...

And there are plenty of other non-TF toy lines which seem to be quite popular amongst members here including: Gobots, G.I. Joe, Macross, Robotech, Gundam, TMNT, WWE etc.

To me, having a TF board with a Lego section is like walking into a Japanese restaurant and seeing Laksa on the menu. And before you laugh, there's actually a so-called Japanese restaurant in Blacktown which does have Laksa on their menu. Now that's not to say that it's not a popular dish nor a delicious dish... but it's so not Japanese and when I see people eating Laksa at a Japanese restaurant... yeah. Might as well walk into a Chinese restaurant and order Souvlaki. (-_-)

Kyle
26th January 2009, 08:36 AM
To me, having a TF board with a Lego section is like walking into a Japanese restaurant and seeing Laksa on the menu. And before you laugh, there's actually a so-called Japanese restaurant in Blacktown which does have Laksa on their menu. Now that's not to say that it's not a popular dish nor a delicious dish... but it's so not Japanese and when I see people eating Laksa at a Japanese restaurant... yeah. Might as well walk into a Chinese restaurant and order Souvlaki. (-_-)

Not only that. People inside a Japanese restaurant should not be allowed to speak English. They should not be called Japanese restaurants if they employ non-Japanese staff or use any item/utensil/ingredient not directly manufactured in Japan. Actually, non-Japanese should not be allowed to dine inside at all. And Japanese restaurants should not be allowed to exist outside Japan in the first place. How's that for authentic? :o

Ok seriously. I do agree with Gok that a Japanese restaurant should not really have Laksa on their menu. :p But Gok's paragraph (not Gok himself) happens to remind me so much of some people I've had the misfortune to meet in the past. :o Let's get back to the topic. :p

kup
26th January 2009, 10:47 AM
The Japanese restaurant analogy is not the best but I do agree with the sentiment behind it. Naturally Griffin is the owner of the board so whatever he decides to do is his right but this thread was created to give us a voice of oppinion on the changes.

I prefer the old board set up as I thought that it was enough to provide for all our needs including non-TF interests which we often discussed. The new board set up doesn't feel as 'sleek' as the setup before and aesthetically speaking in regards to logos, I do prefer the old board too.

The old board was an improvement from the board before it but I can't say the same for this new set up. Regardless, as mentioned before, board rearrangements and even the graphical aspect is something that we will get used to as time passes despite our oppinion but the Non-TF specific sections could be a little distracting if enough people with no TF interests join in.

TheDirtyDigger
26th January 2009, 11:00 AM
Looks all sweet here. I think the minor changes are a major improvement.

jaydisc
26th January 2009, 11:45 AM
FWIW Griffin, careful to not succumb to much to public opinions regarding design. Everyone will have a different idea. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. As long as you've surpassed any issues relating to function (logos occupying 1/2, 2/3 of the page), I'd make sure that you're happy with the design :)

Robzy
26th January 2009, 11:47 AM
Personally, having a Lego Section doesn't bother me... HOWEVER, if we're gonna have one, it'd be great to see a TMNT, MOTU, or Macross area. Of course, I don't think any of these will happen, but I'm more interested in TMNTs than Lego (and I know others are too).

And again, my other "suggestion" is to have a "Non-TF Aquisitions" section instead of just a thread!

Everything else looks great! :)

MV75
26th January 2009, 12:17 PM
In fact, you'll remember that's precisely what I did in 1999 when I created the first Planet Sabretron board - specifically to get away from all the unmoderated mayhem on most other boards like the BWTF boards at the time, and that board became the unofficial AusTrans (OzFormers) board for a while until you created the OzFormers forum around 2002/3? Anyway, it wasn't as if I demanded Ben Yee to create a section on his boards just for Australasian fans - I just went and made one (although I did allow some international users like FawnDoo, CheeToy etc.)... and then we made #transformers on austnet where we were mostly Australian fans but had a few foreigners there too (including Ben Yee and Rob Jung on a rare occasion). But the point I'm making is that I went and made my own forum rather than expecting someone else to do it for me.

So? What's the past and name dropping to do with something that was entirely Griffins' perogative?

Noone expected nor demanded the extra forum. Feel free to go and ressurect planet sabretron if your personal expectations arn't met. Or I'm very sure that Griffin can apply to your account that you just don't even see those forums, go ask him. There we go, you expected something and I put the thinking into the suggestion for you.

I see it as a step towards the future and this board growing up a little. If it reverts back to a single forum, then meh, work with what we're offered. Thanks Griffin. :)

Kyle
26th January 2009, 12:53 PM
FWIW Griffin, careful to not succumb to much to public opinions regarding design. Everyone will have a different idea. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. As long as you've surpassed any issues relating to function (logos occupying 1/2, 2/3 of the page), I'd make sure that you're happy with the design :)

Agreed. Ultimately just go with what you think it's best and what you're most comfortable with! :) If something turns out to be bad we can always change later. Won't know unless we give these changes a go!

Gutsman Heavy
26th January 2009, 02:03 PM
DEATH TO LEGO! :P

griffin
26th January 2009, 02:42 PM
Temporarily locking this topic, until the project is completed, as some people seem to be making a big fuss over the non-TFs section, which means they weren't paying attention to the details I mentioned in post #11.

griffin
28th January 2009, 02:02 PM
Okay, been having some technical problems in the last couple of days, but I think I've got it now. (nothing ever goes according to plan...)
Should (hopefully) have something ready for tomorrow, as I'll be working on it more tonight when I get home from work.

Trying out a new banner, again, as well. Part of the aforementioned technical problems requires a smaller banner.

griffin
29th January 2009, 03:23 AM
Okay, 'phase 2' has been completed. The new OTCA website has now replaced the 10 year old HTML page (that looked like a toddler put together in 5 minutes). Or at least, the basic framework is there, as it didn't quite turn out to be what I was aiming/hoping for. I'll go into more details later today when I wake up, but I spent several hours juggling settings to try to get it to do something it probably isn't designed to do. Got a lot of (visual) work to do on it now, as it looks a bit embarrasing in its basic state at the moment. Just not as embarrasing as the old 'website'.
This topic is still closed because I want to go into some detail about what I was trying to do, and what I may end up doing with the webpage(s). And I'm a little tired right now to post something lengthy and coherant.

griffin
29th January 2009, 03:32 PM
Now then. The big idea...
I've been wanting a proper main-page for our TFs site for, well... a few years now. And in the last 12 months, with help from Jaydisc and Kurdt the Goat, I managed to find something that best suited our forum and its software.
But that stalled for a while because I couldn't get the darn thing to work.
A couple weeks ago, I finally found out what was wrong, and got the page operational.

I also figured that with the upcoming AUS Toyfair (in March), I could use the website to get Hasbro more willing to throw us info and maybe even more coverage at the Toyfair (most of the TFs will be hidden out the back like in 2007).

But there had to be an incentive, or leverage even...

So I asked myself, 'what is holding back Hasbro from being more keen to promote their products though us?'
Easy - we are just a non-website forum centered on just one of their hundreds of product lines. Sure, we may be their biggest selling (or one of) product lines, but for them to INVEST any resources into our little corner of the web, we have to give them an incentive.

So to get them to promote their Transformers Products through us, as a free public service, we need to also allow for them to promote their other toy products. As a Transformers Community, we just 'skim the cream off the top' (the Transformers info), and let the rest of the toy product info go to who ever else is interested. Even if only 10% of the product info was Transformers related, that is still more than we would be getting from them without this project.

That means having a separate webpage and forum for 'All Toy Lines', in addition to our Transformers Community and Forum. And if the interest grows, any other toyline that has a collector following, forums could be generated for them.

But the focus is (and always will be while I'm the admin) the Transformers side of things, and we can't get Hasbro to *want* to invest more of their resources into our community (and conventions/fanmeets), if we are just a single toyline forum.
And since this would be aiming to cover all toylines, not just Hasbro ones, the additional incentive to Hasbro will be maintaining a competative edge over its rivals. If we get some of the other toy distributors intersted in using this free (for now) promotional tool, Hasbro would be under more pressure to use it as well. And as with the example above, any small portion that is Transformers related, is a bonus to our forum.

So for a little while, there will be an expanded section on our forum for other toylines, as a transitional means to generate interest from the Toy Companies, and collectors, to then be set up as its own stand alone collector forum.
So the more popular it gets, the quicker it will be moved from our TFs forum into its own. And having it part of this Transformers Forum for now can help prove to the Toy Companies that there is collector and public interest in an Australian Toy Collectors Website.

It would also be a substitute for the Toy Companies who don't see any value in setting up their own localised product websites (or keeping their websites up-to-date). That would be another incentive to them, as it would be a cheaper alternative to setting up their own localised product websites.

Okay, so now for the technical problems I've been having in the last 4 days, that prevented the website from being launched on the same day as the re-arrangement of the board.
The software for the website wouldn't allow me to generate completely separate pages for 'Transformers', 'General Toy Collecting', 'Lego', etc, so I had to resort to having a main 'Toy Collector' page, with our Transformers page being a sub-page of it.
This was why I had to change the banner to the small thing we have at the moment, because it had to have the word 'Transformers' removed, and, I am going to try to insert a header underneat that main banner on each sub-page and forum, to make it more obvious what each page is about.

I also had to strip out most of the default modules of the program, as they were mostly redundant, and I need to generate new ones to cover info and topics we need on our front page.

I'm probably forgetting some stuff as well, but as I said in the last post, this is still a work in progress, and by no means makes this a toy forum that has a Transformers section. It will remain a Transformers forum, with a temporary hosting of a general toy section, until such time that it can stand on its own, or, will be scaled back because of lack of traffic.

roller
29th January 2009, 03:49 PM
hmmmm kinda like doing a deal with the devil :) ;) i kid i kid


so one day, maybe the other toy line sections will be gone? If no interest from say LEGO is garnered

Kyle
29th January 2009, 05:48 PM
Sounds like a GREAT plan! A big thank you to Bossbot~! :)

Robzy
29th January 2009, 06:11 PM
Sounds interesting!

Hope it's still cool to promote stuff from toy companies other than Hasbro... Mattel for example!

griffin
30th January 2009, 01:47 AM
Had to remove and edit 4 posts here, because a certain member of this forum had asked me not to have his place of employment made public. Many would now know, because it was here for 6 hours, but this just prevents anyone else from seeing it. It wasn't Robzy's fault for posting it, if that other person didn't mention it to him at the meeting.


hmmmm kinda like doing a deal with the devil :) ;) i kid i kid
so one day, maybe the other toy line sections will be gone? If no interest from say LEGO is garnered

Yes. If the other sections end up being like the Damn Toys forum, and just don't have any interest, I won't spin off a separate website and forum, and just integrate them back into the one 'non-TFs toy' section.

If on the other hand it's support grows overwhelmingly, it will be split off quickly. So the more popular it is, the faster we can get it out of the TFs forum.


Sounds interesting!

Hope it's still cool to promote stuff from toy companies other than Hasbro... Mattel for example!

That's kinda the point. If a rival company gets onboard with the Toy Collector website, Hasbro will either compete by utilising it as well, or cut all ties to prevent any leakage of info to their rival. Since we have very little tying us to Hasbro at the moment, and the Q&A thing seems to have lost its momentum and interest, it wouldn't be a huge step backwards if that happened. We existed and grew over the 4 odd years they had us blacklisted, so that sort of thing doesn't worry me.

The problem I will anticipate at first will be, most of the bigger toy companies won't be too keen to get involved in a website that leads back to a forum for a Hasbro product (the non-TFs sections are still part of a TFs forum). When I can get it split off (if it has enough 'legs' to stand on its own), the other toy companies will be more inclined to work with a more nuetral website.

It will be a balancing act, but I'll only do whatever won't jeopardise the continued existance of the TFs forum.

iceburn
30th January 2009, 08:10 AM
It will be a balancing act, but I'll only do whatever won't jeopardise the continued existance of the TFs forum.

Total support..... :)

sanbot
30th January 2009, 09:26 AM
Sounds like a rather innovative idea!

I was wondering though, is it really necessary to have Hasbro's other toy lines "promoted" through the website? Wouldn't it be enough for Hasbro that the website will generate further interest in their TF toyline if they get involved? I mean, my impression is that TF's arn't doing that great in Australia compared to other toys (from other companies), so for Hasbro to increase sales in TF's alone wouldn't that be incentive enough? And for their other toys, I would have thought Hasbro would much rather invest money into websites that specialise in individual toylines of theirs rather then a website that covers all their toylines? Or have I got it completely wrong? I must admit, I don't know the complete history of this website so correct me if my thoughts are off.

griffin
30th January 2009, 01:08 PM
That'd only happen if Hasbro products were obviously different in the toy store to other distributors' products. One great selling toyline won't automatically have consumers looking for only their other product lines, and even if they did, how obvious is it to find other Hasbro products without looking for the Hasbro logo on the packaging?

Do any of us collectors know off hand all the Hasbro toy products currently available, or at least can pick which ones in the action figure aisle are Hasbro products without looking for the little 'Hasbro logo' on the packaging? As is the case with things like Batman and Marvel toys, the license changes hands all the time, so even if collectors knew who used to release a particular theme of toys, it may not be the same today.

So if Collectors of various toys aren't aware of all the other toylines, how would the general public know? It's the general public (kids and parents) that these toy companies get most of their sales from, so prioritising the collector niche market is misdirecting their resources. They interact with us collectors up to a point, and at the moment, it is only being done to help themselves keep us off their backs. To get them more involved, we need to give them what they want - access to the general public, so that their products are promoted directly to kids and parents.
If each of the main toylines had their own page to promote their new products, like most do with their own websites in America, people would know what Hasbro have just released, what Lego have just released, and what all the other major toy distributors are releasing, because it would be in their best interest to promote their products more than their competitors.

Just because the Transformers toyline or Star Wars is doing great, it won't flow onto other Hasbro products by the consumer, only by the retailer. So initially other Hasbro products will benefit from the first shipment to stores after ToyFair, but the consumers demand will drive the re-stocking for the rest of the year as they will be the ones buying what they want, or what is best value.

So one month a year (ToyFair) the toy companies can fool the retailers into thinking certain products are the ones consumers want, and we can spend the other 11 months a year, covering all the products, for the consumers to decide for themselves what they really want.
In theory anyway...

sanbot
30th January 2009, 03:06 PM
You're right. I honestly have no idea about Hasbro's other toylines so knowing of their existance will largely be dependent on how well Hasbro can market it to the general public. I guess what I was inferring from my post was that the general public (parents and kids) probably wouldn't visit websites such as this to find out about their other toylines, maybe they'd just visit Hasbro's own website and other retailer websites?

So for them to get involved with this website, I just thought they would only think about it from the point of view of how it will benefit their TF sales.

swoop
30th January 2009, 07:12 PM
Sorry i don't want to derail the thread or anything but why was ozformers blacklisted by hasbro?

The_Damned
30th January 2009, 08:49 PM
sonds like you have some sort of evil genius plan to take over the online world of toy collecting for your own nefarious purposes griff :p

loophole
30th January 2009, 08:53 PM
Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?

Same thing we do every night, try to take over the online toy collecting community!!

roller
30th January 2009, 11:23 PM
Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?

Same thing we do every night, try to take over the online toy collecting community!!

The Griffin the Griffin and the dirge, dirge, dirge, dirge, dirge:D:D

MV75
31st January 2009, 08:01 AM
Start some Nerf((R) to Hasbro) interest. :)

I have the nitefinder and ironman firefly....... :)

Also, any RC interest? Tamyia anyone?

i_amtrunks
31st January 2009, 08:15 AM
wow, gone for a few weeks and come back to big changes!

Like the new look thus far, got to explore the new sections a bit more thoroughly though!

liegeprime
1st February 2009, 06:13 AM
Having the OTCA logo smaller like that is nice. It now doesn't take 1/3 of my screen when I log on. Will there be any other changes to it bossbot? I kinda was thinking of mebbe a patchwork mosaic of the Uluru, Sydney harbor bridge, Opera house, kangaroo, koala and other Aus landmarks - in a faded background kinda way view for a background instead of the basic black strip. Doesn't have to be actual pictures , can be drawn for it to be cohesive as having a same same kinda art drawing to it. Kinda giving it that Aussie flavor. I know its not so original as other websites from other countries feature icons/scenes from their country but hey what could be better to say this is an Australian site , ya know :o

MV75
1st February 2009, 08:02 AM
About the logo, the .com.au is too dark. Make it a lighter grey. :)

Kyle
1st February 2009, 01:12 PM
About the logo, the .com.au is too dark. Make it a lighter grey. :)

I didn't even notice there's the .com.au until you pointed out... :o

griffin
1st February 2009, 03:23 PM
I can probably lighten the .com.au bit, but I wanted to make it a little hidden, so as not to distract the eye from the main otca logo.

I'm changing a few plans with the main website structure at the moment, so the other ideas I had for the banner image has been held up.

But I've been keen to let others do up proposed banners, and maybe even rotate a few of them. Just keep them to about the size of the current one, and they don't have to have the exact otca logo, or the oz-matrix if you don't want to.

Burn
1st February 2009, 03:58 PM
I'm going to be perfectly honest about the current banner (and this isn't intended to offend either) but it looks so ... amateur.

Would it be possible for you to post the Oz Matrix image so others who want to have a go can use it Griff?

blackie
1st February 2009, 06:11 PM
hey griff did you take away the social groups page? cause for some reason it doesnt work....

griffin
1st February 2009, 07:21 PM
I'll have a look at the social groups thing, as there was something changed in the default settings of the new board version.

I agree that the banner looks amateurish, and cringe when I see it, but was all I had time to do that day.

For those wanting a go, the ozmatrix can be found here:

on white, in gif
http://www.otca.com.au/ozmatrix1.gif

on black in gif
http://www.otca.com.au/ozmatrix1b.gif

on white in jpg
http://www.otca.com.au/ozmatrix3.jpg

on black in jpg
http://www.otca.com.au/ozmatrix3b.jpg

Burn
1st February 2009, 09:00 PM
I didn't try these against the background, but here's two attempts from me, similar in design, just got a little fancier with the second one. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image1-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image2.jpg

I used the Convoy font, if anyone wants it, say the word and i'll upload it.

iceburn
1st February 2009, 09:09 PM
JuzMel...where are you??? bossbot needs a banner! :P

[edit] my contributions... :D

Normal
http://images.icebu12n.multiply.com/image/2/photos/61/1200x1200/63/octa-icebu12n.jpg?et=n4hfQuqDXFj8UPRoiwvv0w&nmid=112402033

Autobots
http://images.icebu12n.multiply.com/image/2/photos/61/1200x1200/64/octa-icebu12n-auto.jpg?et=IinWBfOSx61SfiV%2BhWj80A&nmid=112402033

Decepticons
http://images.icebu12n.multiply.com/image/2/photos/61/1200x1200/65/octa-icebu12n-decept.jpg?et=bb3UZvyjJBQ%2ChFghUBMmNQ&nmid=112402033

Kyle
2nd February 2009, 03:30 PM
I like these 2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image2.jpg

http://images.icebu12n.multiply.com/image/2/photos/61/1200x1200/65/octa-icebu12n-decept.jpg?et=bb3UZvyjJBQ%2ChFghUBMmNQ&nmid=112402033

Burn
2nd February 2009, 07:09 PM
What's with the "multiply" thing Ice? Otherwise I really like yours!

jaydisc
2nd February 2009, 08:54 PM
I think that's a watermark from the hosting provider. Wouldn't be in final version.

STL
2nd February 2009, 11:03 PM
I have to agree, the banner does look out of place.

The new board is taking some getting used to but its okay. Personally, I'm not a fan of the expanded other sections. I liked it consolidated into the Non-TFs section.

iceburn
2nd February 2009, 11:06 PM
I think that's a watermark from the hosting provider. Wouldn't be in final version.


What's with the "multiply" thing Ice? Otherwise I really like yours!

yeah it's just a watermark from my hosting site.

STL
3rd February 2009, 10:27 PM
I want to add that I really really love the "OTCA" acronym in the banner being used. I was online today but it helped me remain discreet to people walking past (my bosses) so while its apparent I'm browsing the net, it's just browsing rather than it being painfully obvious I'm embarking on geek time at work. It probably won't be a big issue in a few months but for the 1st few, the logo probably helps me a lot to check in the board more often.

griffin
9th February 2009, 12:44 AM
Just threw in one of Burn's banners, and have requested a copy of one of Iceburn's without a watermark, to throw up as well. Of the five that have been posted between Burn and Iceburn, which do you guys prefer?

kup
9th February 2009, 02:36 AM
Both those logos are nice. I like them both about the same.

One is nicely subtle but effective in a classy manner and the other creatively and tastefully colorful.

jaydisc
9th February 2009, 07:49 AM
I like Icey's. Burn's is too big.

GoktimusPrime
9th February 2009, 08:19 AM
I liked the smaller one cos it's more discreet at work. :D

Robzy
9th February 2009, 08:27 AM
I like Icey's. Burn's is too big.


I liked the smaller one cos it's more discreet at work. :D
Burn's could be made smaller.

I prefer the font (style & colour) on Burn's, but like the background on Iceburn's... maybe they should merge and have an Ice/Burn design :D

iceburn
9th February 2009, 09:04 AM
i've already emailed griffin both the *.jpg and *.psd (Adobe Photoshop) files...

sifun
9th February 2009, 09:49 AM
I like the previous one to this logo

JuzMel
9th February 2009, 11:07 AM
Hi guys, my contribution:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner_d1.jpg

And a preview of how it looks when displayed on the board itself:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner_on_screen.jpg

And my two cents worth:
Okay initially I was lazy and couldn't be bothered. But I couldn't help it when I saw the "horrific" designs from a Web Designer's perspective. Sorry guys, not shooting you all down or anything but being a Web Designer for 6 years has made me put my critical hat on. :D No offense taken I hope.

A website logo needs to blend in with the website theme or have the correct contrast with the website theme. Rainbow colours do not look right! :eek: Plain and simple is nice and these days is all about achieving a "clean look". I had this banner done in like 10mins, so go ahead and bombard if you don't like it. Otherwise if you think I'm in the right direction, then tell me so and I can tweak a few more samples later. :)

blackie
9th February 2009, 11:10 AM
i like it mel :)

maybe a different font tho?

Paulbot
9th February 2009, 11:14 AM
Nice work Mel

griffin
9th February 2009, 11:28 AM
Nice logo Mel. Just one observation - what resolution is your monitor, and does the (centered) banner line up with the background on other RES settings?

STL
9th February 2009, 03:03 PM
That is an awesome logo, Mel. Very awesome.

iceburn
9th February 2009, 03:15 PM
Nice logo Mel. Just one observation - what resolution is your monitor, and does the (centered) banner line up with the background on other RES settings?

as always, you're excellent at these!
i think you can set it as a transparent background using *.gif and it'll take on the background anyway? could we try that mel?

autobreadticon
9th February 2009, 05:51 PM
i like the autobot decepticon combined logos and colour scheme from Mel (its like it can't decide ), Burn''s stylish Text and Ice's greenish coloured text, combined them all and its perfect

Kyle
9th February 2009, 06:46 PM
Mel's is also very nice!

JuzMel
10th February 2009, 11:46 AM
Nice logo Mel. Just one observation - what resolution is your monitor, and does the (centered) banner line up with the background on other RES settings?
My monitor is 1280 x 1024 at work and home is 1280 x 960. And yes Griff, the banner looks okay for these 2 resolutions. Centered on top of page.


as always, you're excellent at these!
i think you can set it as a transparent background using *.gif and it'll take on the background anyway? could we try that mel?
The GIF file I download also had white background, I had to crop it off, it's no biggie. :) Why u don't like my jagged edges for it? :p

Anyway, 2 more designs guys:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner2.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_BannerScreen2.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner3.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_BannerScreen3.jpg

I'm still not really fully satisfied with it though. Need more time to look for free to use TF images.

Robzy
10th February 2009, 12:21 PM
These are some really nice designs Mel! :) I particularly like the top one - especially the lettering.

STL
10th February 2009, 01:18 PM
Absolutely agree. Wonderful work, Mel. I'd love to see any of those as the banner

lcz128
10th February 2009, 01:22 PM
Nice :) I like the 1st out of your 2nd batch of designs. It just works with the background of the site and doesn't poke at your eye - more harmonic than all of the other designs. :)

griffin
11th February 2009, 02:04 AM
Some very nice banners there. I will upload several, and rotate a few over the next few weeks to see which looks best to you guys.

Also, a new section has been added (Teletran 1's Time Capsules). It's something I thought about doing for some time, and with recent issues here, I think it needs to be started up to help distract people BACK onto the topic of Transformers. I'll post something to start with, in the morning (after I've had a sleep). :)

GoktimusPrime
11th February 2009, 02:06 PM
I'm assuming that the rest of us can also make threads there in the spirit of making TF Time Capsules? I have something I'd like to do but I'll do it when I get home. :)

griffin
11th February 2009, 02:24 PM
Not yet.

Burn
11th February 2009, 10:18 PM
Well bugger, I was all excited to show my latest creations off because I thought I was being fancy.

Then I saw Mel's. Poop. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image3.jpg

GoktimusPrime
12th February 2009, 07:57 AM
I'm liking the new banner! :) My only suggestion would be to try and fill in the white gaps inside the "Matrix" to make it match the background.

iceburn
12th February 2009, 08:02 AM
i'm loving mel's....

gok, you meant like this?

http://images.icebu12n.multiply.com/image/1/photos/61/1200x1200/68/otca13.jpg?et=G94oHjAbJwMWcuVzmpbvQQ&nmid=112402033


pls ignore the multiply watermark when it appears

STL
12th February 2009, 08:26 AM
I love the new Logo too. Looks great. Excellent work, Mel.

i_amtrunks
12th February 2009, 08:38 AM
Looks great Mel, blends right into the background.

Makes viewing the site at work easier too!

kup
12th February 2009, 09:53 AM
Yep that logo is nice and blends in well with the rest of the board theme while still very much noticeable.

JuzMel
12th February 2009, 03:30 PM
Thanks for all the compliments guys. I'm glad you all like the designs. It's very comforting and a great break from work stress. Hot Rodimus actually also asked me about my Signature Banner and I offered to do one up for him if he can send me images of his favourite TFs. So of course this offer is open up for you guys too. :)

Here's another version of the current banner than Griffin has put up. The font is apparently "Transformers" font as stated as from the 1001freefonts website. You guys be the judge:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner4.jpg

Griff, I couldn't find out if the forum has any tagline. If so, we can put it on the banner as well. The one I have there is just one I made up myself. :p

blackie
12th February 2009, 03:34 PM
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner4.jpg
\

that looks much better with the filled in matrix :)
i think we have a winner

iceburn
12th February 2009, 05:28 PM
blackie...remember that the grids for the image may not line up properly.
it does look good.

MV75
12th February 2009, 07:25 PM
that looks much better with the filled in matrix :)
i think we have a winner

Sure hope so. Please just leave it now. I dislike the 10 flavour a day changes to that banner.

jaydisc
12th February 2009, 08:01 PM
So what dictates what appears at http://www.otca.com.au/ ? Is it a manual process?

iceburn
12th February 2009, 08:12 PM
i notice that too. what happened to the Resources page that was in that main page?
the links to all the Online Stores websites locally and internationally, list of all TF toys released, etc

GoktimusPrime
12th February 2009, 08:56 PM
gok, you meant like this?
That is much better but the holes on the "East Coast" side of the Matrix handle also needs to be filled in. :)

iceburn
12th February 2009, 09:01 PM
ahhh sheesh, i get what you mean. :P

GoktimusPrime
12th February 2009, 09:33 PM
Sorry dude... I thought you might not have noticed. :p :)

STL
13th February 2009, 12:05 AM
Nah, I still like the one we've got right now more. That tagline is kinda corny.

griffin
13th February 2009, 01:31 AM
So what dictates what appears at http://www.otca.com.au/ ? Is it a manual process?

That is exactly why we are having these banner issues. The main page, and any sub-pages, takes the banner from this forum, so it had to (temporarily) not have the Transformers word in it (and probably anything obviously TF related like the allegiance symbols - but that's not a huge problem right now). But it would only be temporary, as the non-TF section will either be reabsorbed (the main page would be reverted to just TFs), or spun off on its own (the main page would draw its banner from the new toy forum). The stupid software wouldn't allow me to import different banners for each sub-page, so they all have to be the same at this time, and fairly generic (not obvious to non-fans that it is a TFs banner).


i notice that too. what happened to the Resources page that was in that main page?
the links to all the Online Stores websites locally and internationally, list of all TF toys released, etc

They are actually still on the server (http://www.otca.com.au/tf.html), and will be relinked from the TFs page, but for now, it is only accessable if you know the actual link. I didn't think anyone still used it though, because a lot of it is out of date, and I just haven't had the time to go through it all and redo it.

Robzy
13th February 2009, 02:36 AM
Well bugger, I was all excited to show my latest creations off because I thought I was being fancy.

Then I saw Mel's. Poop. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/burnscrap/Image3.jpgI like both these designs too!

Actually, I really think that font is the best one! :)

JuzMel
16th February 2009, 09:55 AM
Well I guess everyone likes the convoy font, so merging Burn's great idea and mine and I also "stole" a bit of Tober's signature banner (really loving his banner, "Revenge of the Forum", haha that's such a good and funny tagline :D too bad black doesn't really blend in), here's the updated one:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner5.jpg

STL
16th February 2009, 11:29 AM
I still like the current one. I'm willing to go down swinging for it!

Sky Shadow
16th February 2009, 11:37 AM
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner5.jpg

I really like this one. Nice work. :)

Stompy
16th February 2009, 05:37 PM
I like mel's first batch or the current one that is up as the banner. I personally would like the current set-up with the new font on your most recent one mel. I really like the faction symbols above and below each other. Excellent work from everyone who contributed.

Robzy
16th February 2009, 06:39 PM
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner5.jpgThis is PERFECT!! Well done Mel! :)

Wheel-J
17th February 2009, 09:54 PM
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner5.jpg

I prefer this one better <twothumbsup!!> :)

STL
17th February 2009, 09:57 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wheel-J
17th February 2009, 10:08 PM
Don't worry mate. That's just meh. :D

Anyway, my thoughts on the current banner still needs a bit of improvement. Notice the white background on the inside of the matrix? Mel, did a good paint job to cover it up with the current background colour. For me, that kind of blending suits meh taste. :)

Tober
18th February 2009, 03:21 PM
Well I guess everyone likes the convoy font, so merging Burn's great idea and mine and I also "stole" a bit of Tober's signature banner


That's cool :). Not sure it works so well without the actual TF font to support it as a faction logo substitute tho - it is kinda obscure. :o

My 2 cents -

As the forum banner it really should read as 'Ozformers Transformers Collectors Australia' somewhere - there is nothing to say what OTCA stands for otherwise. Maybe have 'Transformers Collectors Australia' like the 'Robots In Disguise' in that logo to match the font.

The sepia grade in the background, instead of red or purple looks strange, I prefer the previous vertical grade too.

That is if I haven't completely missed the point of turning OTCA ('Oz Toy Collectors Alliance'?) into a more generic toy forum.

Robzy
18th February 2009, 06:28 PM
As the forum banner it really should read as 'Ozformers Transformers Collectors Australia' somewhere - there is nothing to say what OTCA stands for otherwise. Good point! :)

JuzMel
20th February 2009, 10:43 AM
Hopefully this one makes everyone more of less happy! :)

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/milassilem/Transformers/fan-art/OTCA_Banner6.jpg

Gutsman Heavy
20th February 2009, 01:02 PM
makes me happy

Robzy
20th February 2009, 05:20 PM
makes me happyI'm just happy that you're happy!

Looks great Mel :)

iceburn
20th February 2009, 05:23 PM
the words look abit blurry. is it me?

JuzMel
25th February 2009, 01:35 PM
the words look abit blurry. is it me?
Yah just you... heehehe